Transcript
Speaker: Hello and welcome to China Tourism Tuesday, podcast where we discuss how to market foreign destinations in China's outbound travel market. My name is Charles Baten and I'm coming to you from Shanghai, China.
Speaker: ah everybody, I'm Michael and I'm coming to you from Amsterdam. And today we have a very special guest and a good friend, Fu Han Zhou, a digital marketing expert and live streaming sales guru at Trip.com, China's biggest online travel agency.
Speaker: Joe, welcome to the show. Could you please just tell us a little bit about who you are and what you do with Trip.com? Hi everyone, so now my job is professional live ah streamer, um basically in marketing area and um to sell the travel products in like digital way.
Speaker: And I travel a lot because I need to um like a travel around in China to um discover the landscapes and to shoot the video.
Speaker: for Trip.com as well. So also hot hotels and anything with the, you know, like in this area. So Joe, our audience that listens to this podcast is primarily people who are in the travel industry, in tourism boards, in hotels, in destinations in around the world.
Speaker: So I think the biggest question for them, given the discrepancy between Western social media and Chinese social media is they want to know how does Chinese social media work in 2025?
Speaker: Which platforms are the most important for them to be taking notice of for Chinese outbound travelers right now? okay um so in 2025 i think the social media is still very crazy in china because uh like ah over 19 chinese are using tick tock and the red book uh daily So it's a crazy number based on our you know how much we have.
Speaker: So um now it's like Douyin prefers to have fun. Redbook, pretty like the Instagram page. instagram in China.
Speaker: And more than that, you can um use as a, like a searching ah device for the information, like pretty like Google. So you can like ah enter so the destinations and then you can find the information there.
Speaker: So I think it's good because many people, many KOL, KOSAs, they gonna put the um like real vlogs there so you can quickly check which kind of destination you want to go.
Speaker: And food, of course, you can check. which I would like to ask you, so when you are doing these ah live streaming sessions, um ah many of our listeners, some have certainly seen them before, but but many have not. um Can you describe a little bit what would they be seeing? okay Can you set the scene a little bit of what they would expect to see from, for example, live streaming sessions that you do with Trip.com?
Speaker: I don't know if it's popular in Western oh countries. However, now oh it is very popular in China. So we can buy anything we want in a digital market.
Speaker: basically like aiao ho show read book or write notes ah doing and the and many the other apps. So ah you just like, a so so this, okay.
Speaker: So I just show you. So now I'm doing the live stream and the you click my screen and then you in, right? And then you you ah find me, I'm talking about ah the information.
Speaker: about like a product ah of travel. Just like her hotels or let's say um the near one we are selling is like Tibet.
Speaker: Tibet is really like a um like high, right? so Many people are concerned about that safety because you need the oxygen. So then the first things like ah I would let them know they will be very safe because we will travel around and what kind of hotels and what kind of devices you need to get to protect you.
Speaker: ah Firstly, because I think um safety is always the most important thing when we traveling, right? And secondly, like ah you need to let them know um how many how how beautiful the landscape you can get after your hard work.
Speaker: And of course, many destinations divided into like a pieces, i into details. So I will describe to them.
Speaker: So sometimes I may pretend And I have been there. ah Sometimes I just like to pretend, but I can bring my emotions to let them feel they are into the landscapes.
Speaker: So that's it. And then you just like ah three, two, one, then the link. will come and then everybody just go and grab it just like a, um you know, the but like Christmas, you know, that the market is, you know, just like Christmas. One, three, two, one, okay, come and buy anything on sale, right?
Speaker: Okay, great. And when you do, ah before you do this live stream, how much preparation do you normally have to put into it before before starting? So my colleague will pick up the information to me so I can get a kind of like a round down or something like Excel.
Speaker: So we have the like a destination and we have the ah most important like the viewpoints and then the important information, very simplified one there. And then the price and the what kind of meals or what kind of flights including.
Speaker: So you know, like it even if you want to go to Tibet, right? I think only 4,000 Chinese Yuan you can go there for like ah five days, including tickets and also the hotels and also the meals and also the tickets in the different like viewpoints.
Speaker: So only falls down on something because now China's marketing is like a like a kind of crazy, like so you can get very cheap price with good high quality.
Speaker: So let's say that's five star hotel you can live in. And maybe- pretty amazing. Yeah, maybe the other small OTA, they would like to um attract the student, maybe only 2000 Chinese Yuan. You can go to Tibet for like a um five days.
Speaker: But definitely not from overseas, from like ah like Shanghai, Beijing, or from um like Xining, you know, because the station, like of the train, usually starts from Xining station, so which is a province very near Tibet.
Speaker: Totally. Those are really good prices. here Joe, I have a ah quick question just for our foreign listeners. um I want to also understand better how livestream viewers actually interact with you.
Speaker: So you will be speaking to them, you speaking to many people. How do they give you feedback and how do they ask questions? e To be honest? ah Chinese people don't like to ask questions, so you need to be very attractive and then you need to ah divide their questions like before.
Speaker: like it before like into like a visa right if you go overseas so visa is the most important thing the first thing and then uh so what kind of food they can eat what's kind of the like viewpoints they will go and uh uh how about the schedule So if no one asks, you need to um like ah describe the destinations, describe a very fancy stuff, and then make them feel, wow, I want to go.
Speaker: So for example, Tibet. so At the beginning, no one asked me any questions. I feel really, really quiet. And ah you know this travel product is very um complicated because Tibet has like a religion bright and also many, many viewpoints.
Speaker: So a lot information. But you know, like ah in ah social media, no one is really like a like in the class. They couldn't stay and stay there for 30 minutes to listen what you say, right?
Speaker: So basically like ah two minutes or three minutes, people will change. Like a new people come, old people stay, and some people um have gone. So then you need to quickly um use like a three sentences to describe the viewpoints and to see if they are um is there any reactions or not.
Speaker: And then if anyone asks you any question, just catch it and then use the question to do the next.
Speaker: and And Joe, for your live stream sessions, as I understand it, you will be going for several hours and you will be basically repeating, you know, your set messages that you want to tell people, the story that you want to tell people. And you'll be repeating it to new people coming in.
Speaker: and But I want to know from you, how long do your live streams usually last? Four hours. Four hours. That's a lot of work. Yeah. And five minutes should be a so-called.
Speaker: So from your like ah descriptions to the information of the product to push the sale, like close the sale.
Speaker: I see. So it's five-minute cycles over and over again over four hours. Yeah, but I'm not that... ah How could I say it? like yeah I'm bored of the same information.
Speaker: So sometimes i I would like to chat with them based on what I know. Like, a um let's say, like ah I will say, like, Tibet is for brave people.
Speaker: So you must go there for once because I really like have been there. So I know. before. For brave people. Yeah. Yeah, for brave people. Because like, and um so the first thing you need to protect you from the, um like a reaction, lack of oxygen. The altitude sickness, yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: Yes. And then they will like ask you, and even you know when I ah saw the 70-year-old man ask me, could I go?
Speaker: ah feel really, really happy. Because now, like in China, ah the new generation maybe um like ah don't have enough money, but the retired people, yes, they do have. Mm-hmm.
Speaker: Yeah, so that's great because when I travel around ah in different provinces, I ah really see many like a senior over 50 years old, but they are quite and energy up, you know.
Speaker: even better than the new generation. I mean, 20 years old people. Yes, yes. And they're happy. And even like to i I saw, I remember my experience in Zhangjiajie.
Speaker: Do you know Zhangjiajie? So it's like a yeah crazy mountains in the movie Avenda. Have you watched Avenda?
Speaker: Avenda. um Avatar, yeah. Avatar, yes. Avatar, so that's a mountain there. Could you imagine? Yeah. So there were like couples, over years old.
Speaker: and then they shoot the video to for each other. They do vlogs as well. And they look so cute. And even the you know there the uncle was not that good to be shoot.
Speaker: And the auntie just like to encourage him. So, baby, you look great. Yeah, just like this. so it's It's quite good. It makes people want to get married. Yeah.
Speaker: Oh yeah. ah One quick question, Joe, that I still want to ask you is, ah you know, I think one thing we'll see with especially travel to overseas outside of China is it's also mainly retired people, 50 plus demographics who are traveling because they have the time, because they have the money.
Speaker: um I want to know from your perspective, you know, you've you've traveled quite a lot outside of China. I want to know from you which destinations really stick with you, which destinations do you really enjoy going to outside of China? on It's really hard. Could I pick three? Top three, go for it. Yeah, yeah. One is so limited to me.
Speaker: So I think the first one is um ah the Eastern Arabic Emirates because I went to the East Rang museum there in Shajia.
Speaker: ah yeah Oh yeah. Yeah, it was so it was so beautiful. And all the wide buildings in there was like a very pure to me.
Speaker: And also um I don't know too much about like ah um like a Muslim and what we call like a Islam教.
Speaker: and Yeah, oh but I learned quite a lot there. So I definitely a museum guy, lover. So I go a city, I definitely go straight away there.
Speaker: Even I only have one day because I um i went there for my ah job. So I was a host to host the party there for all the...
Speaker: the party there for all the suppliers from overseas. Even the government in Arabic area.
Speaker: so So that's great because now I know so why China is gradually close to Arabic because we ah we we share the they're almost like same old histories. So we have the connection.
Speaker: So let me give you an example. right So in Arabic, you check the like a when they talk about their own history, you can always say China's name.
Speaker: So straight away the first one. And then um I couldn't say like ah like a like ah America or England, I couldn't say that.
Speaker: So the oh always the old countries there. So, and also I know that they are very good at mathematics. So that's why the buildings always very like her like a beautiful and with the line in center. I mean,.
Speaker: hasha what we call to each and You help me. Yeah. yeah Yeah. And this is Arabic. And then i think <unk> Japan is great as well because the food over there is so delicious.
Speaker: ah hu and the beef. And also I can, um i am I was good to deal with the local people. And the even even I can play piano there with the like the coffee shop's owner.
Speaker: And the owner has a sister, like an elder sister. It's a very famous comedian, sorry, the comedian. Yeah, committed in Japan.
Speaker: So I think the most important part is talking to local people so you can get information. so so So to stay your stereotype or break your stereotype.
Speaker: And the the third one I think should be, let me think. The third one should be, I think Korea.
Speaker: Because ah Korea is not what I think. So I went there, I can feel like a some connection.
Speaker: I couldn't tell more. So just my my feeling, that's it. Yeah. and so So it's the cultures, it's the histories and the interactions with people that would draw traveler like yourself to these kinds of destinations.
Speaker: you Yeah. Yeah, that's quite interesting. And out of these, for these three destinations that just mentioned, and I'm sure that you've also traveled to other foreign destinations, um were you traveling there for work or was it leisure?
Speaker: um so Before I joined Trip.com, I traveled by myself blanket in Italy, Spain,
Speaker: ah many cities. However, like now I basically i go overseas to Singapore, the Arabic and um and of the area, and they also the Japan, Korea, Thailand, um basically because of my job.
Speaker: yeah So are you guys jealous? Because I can get a ticket and hotels. Yeah. Absolutely. And I mean, ah which part, I mean, this might be a bit of a silly question, but which part of your work do you actually enjoy the most? or what what do you get the most satisfaction from, ah from your work? Is it from traveling, from seeing the different destinations or, or what is, what is your favorite part of your job?
Speaker: The most, um, the most, um, part of my joy is not the travel only.
Speaker: is The job actually changed my um concept of time and ah the space, you know, because today I'm here.
Speaker: Next day I will be in Japan. So i I can just only work for two days and then I need to go to next destinations. So, you know, like a when I'm not like a when I am not in this kind of ah situation, this kind of situations I feel like i need to ahll save the money, right?
Speaker: And I need to wait my for my like holidays and then I need schedule and then I can go. But after all this like a traveling experience by my job, I find it totally bullshit.
Speaker: If you wait, you wait your time. So money is okay because even have a little bit, you can find different ways everywhere. right You can go luxury hotels or you can choose the hostels.
Speaker: It doesn't matter. yeah But if you really like a few, you want to go somewhere and then you just a go. so So likeer I can be in like three cities or maybe like two countries at least in one week.
Speaker: So I feel like ah it can be, so my time and my, oh so my sense, my senses of time and space definitely now is changing.
Speaker: So I feel the the whole world. So it's just like beautiful found park. sound um park You can go yeah anywhere and pick up the one thing you like. And you don't need to you know you don't need to follow anyone's suggestions to get all.
Speaker: Do you get me? So yeah even one you can pick up, you already feel really fulfilled. So i'll give you example. So xingja Xinjiang is quite big.
Speaker: So um one week I decided to go there because my friend was there. So i I think only two days. So I need to finish my work on Friday.
Speaker: And then straightway, I could fly to the Xinjiang province, the capital city there. And then I would like go back to Shanghai on Monday or on Sunday night.
Speaker: But I made these decision. I went there and i the first time I you know like ah i know how to ride the horse and I saw the beautiful um snow mountain.
Speaker: so And I tasted the beautiful Xinjiang food and it's really good for Muslim as well. So it's like a yogurt there. It's... is beautiful, crazy, delicious.
Speaker: So I feel really fulfilled. And that some people would like to ask me, so but it it will take you like ah five hours or four hours to go there. But I say, like if you don't do anything at home,
Speaker: on weekends. So how could you use the four hours? ah Definitely you guys were like a ah watch TV, right? And ah it's something and chat and ah maybe even just a do nothing.
Speaker: But only four hours, you can go to another destination. Just bring your book, right? And this is maybe the only chance you can get rid of your phone. So but I also thanks for um the job because I really start to read book because I travel lot.
Speaker: Otherwise I don't know how to do, you know, in the plan. yes So that really gave me quite like a kind of like I think stepped into the new world because of this job.
Speaker: And of course, because my personality, not all the colleagues like me, but I really like to travel. and And then do do you have any control over which projects you have to do for the work?
Speaker: Do you have any choice? ah or Or is it more like ah this is what you have to do next week and off you go? Okay, so I don't do a lot planning because I'm a person i who likes to get some accidents.
Speaker: I really like. so But one thing very easy, because firstly, do you remember told you guys I'm a museum lover? Yeah. So you go to the museum and then or how about the food you would like to get? So at the beginning, I like to find the best of restaurants in you know in the city, something like this. But actually, this is not convenient. the The best way is like you go to the destination and use Da Zhong Dian Ping.
Speaker: ah kind of blanker Do we have the same in like ah in America or Western countries? like ah Not so similar, but I mean, also just like TripAdvisor and all these things. Oh, TripAdvisor. Yes.
Speaker: Yeah, like TripAdvisor. So you can quickly search the information and you'll find the nearest restaurant and always like ah the score should be over four. But sometimes, you know, the beautiful restaurant, even they don't care about score.
Speaker: to be honest. yeah So maybe 3.7 is okay. But one tip I can give to you is like check the um the food because we have like a four scales of scoring the restaurant, right?
Speaker: So usually like the... and um like the material is like the food is fresh or not and then the atmosphere ah automosphere like ah how beautiful the restaurant is and then and the price and and the something else so you just stick on the material if if the material is is more it's like a better than the others especially better than atmosphere and then you definitely go which which means people are happy with the food only
Speaker: So the taste and the um case and material definitely are the most two points. So you need to check and then the score should be higher than the others.
Speaker: It's much higher, you definitely go. Don't worry about like 4.8, 4.9 because oh Chinese people are like ah quite good at marketing. So you need to be careful because otherwise you you should wait a long line.
Speaker: and the but But to be honest, and to For all the older like foreigners, like ah it doesn't matter. 4.8 is still very good, right? Because that's your new experience. No, I mean, I completely understand what you're saying. mean, here I'm speaking to you from Amsterdam. and And the problem with going out to restaurants in Amsterdam is that Amsterdam is a very touristy city. So if you are going to look at reviews and points and ratings,
Speaker: It can be very misleading because it could be people that actually know nothing about food yes and giving high ratings because it blew their minds. This is amazing.
Speaker: But for people that really enjoy better food more, they would not necessarily agree. So we've definitely had a situation where yeah I absolutely don't look at the ratings of the restaurants.
Speaker: here in Amsterdam because it's kind of skewed towards ah tourists that are streaming in and out of here that don't really know what they're talking about. Yeah, great. And also very easy to, you know, check the truth because in your city,
Speaker: you couldn't tell with who is the local and who is a foreigner. But in China, it's very easy. So you pass a restaurant and you see many Chinese people is waiting there and then you go.
Speaker: Precisely. Yeah. Precisely. Yeah. so I even heard the other day of apparently Italians that live in in this part, Italians that live outside of Italy, they've also got their own rating um app precisely because they don't trust...
Speaker: the opinion of British or Americans or Germans or whatever, they only trust themselves because they're Italian. Italians make such great food. So they've got their own internal rating system that they use because they there they just don't trust other people.
Speaker: Yes. so So if you want to lanka like a go to the restaurant, like ah you don't want to wait online. I mean, we're in a really long line, you just like ah wait a little bit because like in China, our lunch time lunch time around like 12 to 1 o'clock.
Speaker: So which means if you pass the restaurant and say, oh, many people are waiting right now. So you just wait until like 1 o'clock, like 1.20, 1.30, but not over 2 o'clock.
Speaker: Otherwise, may close. Or you can mark it and then go like 11.30. um So you can solve the problem. Yeah.
Speaker: Joe, my last question for you is where next? Where would you like to go next? where Where have you not been that you would really like to go to?
Speaker: Wow. That's good question. um I think maybe maybe England. Okay. You know why? Never been? Yeah, but I pretend in my live streaming I have been there because I just sold over 1.5 million ah Chinese Yuan in four hours of this destination.
Speaker: Wow. Yeah. So I know a lot of England. I know um how to go to Edinburgh and then the beautiful lake and then i can go to London and to have fun with ah the the most beautiful museum there.
Speaker: Joe, thank you so much for joining us today on the podcast. We really appreciate your time and sharing your your inputs and ideas with us. nice the truth Thank you now thank you Michael. hope And thank you for your and um inviting me here. And that's my appreciate.
Speaker: You're most welcome. If you have any questions or comments about the topics that we discussed on today's show, please feel free to reach out to us at marketing at cconsulting.com.cn or you can hit us up on LinkedIn at Create Consulting.
Speaker: We look forward to your feedback.
