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China Tourism Tuesday Episode 22
22 Plays1 month ago
Today, we sit down with Johan van Schalkwyk of the Aquila Collection, to talk about China's rising interest in South African travel – and how South African brands can crack the China market, much like Aquila Collection has managed to do over the past several years. Listen to Johan talk visas, safety, social media strategy and product offerings as Aquila Collection looks to roll out a whole new level of African safari luxury in 2025.
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Transcript
Introduction to China Tourism Tuesday
00:00:02
Speaker
Hello and welcome to China Tourism Tuesday, discussion of marketing outbound tourism destinations in the China tourism market. My name is Charles Betain. I'm coming to you from Shanghai, China. And today we have another guest with us who is also in Shanghai, China, which is Johan van Skalkvek from the Aquila Collection in the Western Cape of South Africa. ah Johan, welcome to the show. Thanks for joining us. I was hoping you could just start off and give us a bit of a self-introduction of you know what you do, what you guys do, and how it is that you have come to find yourself in Shanghai, China in the hottest month, arguably, of the Chinese summer.
Aquila Collection's Offerings and Engagements
00:00:46
Speaker
Well, hello hello to everyone. Yes, Johan van Skalpeg. I am the commercial officer for Aquila Collection, ah Bucket List, Safari, Wildlife, and now recently Wine Experience, Business.
00:00:59
Speaker
in the Western Cape, Cape Town, South Africa. Yes, it is indeed the hottest month in Shanghai, but it's lovely. It's lovely to be here. It's lovely to meet the people.
00:01:11
Speaker
It's lovely to walk amongst the Chinese folk and experience life with them, understand better what they want, um how they travel, what their needs are. But we are here in Shanghai making our way. We started in Beijing and now in Shanghai, and we're here to engage with travel trade,
00:01:29
Speaker
um understand the needs, understand their ah passions and their wants of South Africa, um and trying to find a way to re-engage them um and to work with them and to bring more Chinese tourists to Cape Town in specific.
00:01:45
Speaker
um Our business is in Cape Town. We have a love for Cape Town. And on that note, yes, we're a 26-year-old business in Cape Town, South Africa. We've become an anchor tenant to the Western Cape.
00:01:57
Speaker
We've become a top 10 must-do bucket list attraction over the years.
Conservation and the Big Five in Western Cape
00:02:02
Speaker
We started with one reserve which most people likely to know, which was Akila Private Game Reserve, two hours from the city, um offering Big Five safaris. Back then, it was and the first property and first safari experience to bring back the Big Five. 250 years after they were shot and killed by the colonists.
00:02:21
Speaker
and back into the Western Cape. So it was massive eco projects, massive conservation projects back then, which is still ongoing today, to bring the first elephants back into the Cape, to bring the first lions back into the Cape, and all the conservation work that had to happen around that.
00:02:37
Speaker
A few years later, we had the first rhino births um in the Western Cape after 250 years after they disappeared from the area. So it's been an exciting story of wildlife and tourism that came together. And today we are the Aquila collection.
00:02:54
Speaker
We've got multiple safari options and we've also recently added wine options, ah which we can talk about a little bit later. But we now offer one-stop shop for the international tourists coming to Cape Town to experience everything that Cape Town has.
00:03:11
Speaker
And with that, the number one reason that people do travel to South Africa is for the wildlife and the great outdoors um and the beautiful scenery and landscapes. and And our company and our brand is beautifully positioned in that landscape to be hand in hand with a beautiful leisure business, mice, any trip um that goes into Cape Town.
00:03:33
Speaker
Over the years, we have now developed a program um and a marketing and a campaign effort to say that, you know, to use one airport into Cape Town to do all of these beautiful things of the
Promoting South African Tourism in China
00:03:45
Speaker
city. So we are here in Beijing, like I've said, to engage with the market.
00:03:49
Speaker
and to come and tell them the beautiful stories of Cape Town, to tell them the stories of our business and why they should come back to South Africa and come back now to Cape Town um to visit us.
00:04:01
Speaker
And that is our mission here in China over the last few days and currently speaking from Shanghai. So um basically, i want to take a step back and actually ask you, you know, the sort of top of mind thing for everybody just about who is remotely involved in China and South Africa tourism is TTOS.
00:04:21
Speaker
Can you give us sort of your view from the call face on how it's actually landing, how it's actually ah being put into practice? Is it beginning to work? And yeah, what is your view on TTOS?
00:04:35
Speaker
Interesting question. It's obviously a buzzword. Everyone that talks about South Africa and the China India market has this T.T.O.S. ah word on their mouths. It is certainly a great addition to the tourism landscape in South Africa. I think if we reverse slightly In a pre-pandemic world, ah China visited South Africa.
00:04:57
Speaker
It was one of our top markets. And then things went slightly south. um And we don't have to go into those details today. And then it became difficult for us to to rebound the China travel into South Africa. We obviously had this pandemic in the middle.
00:05:12
Speaker
um And post-pandemic, it was just an absolute admin nightmare to try and get China travel um into South Africa. now And we all can agree that I think the biggest caveat and the biggest roadblock to that was our visa regime, um the timeframes around that, the difficulty of the application. So yes, it is a celebratory moment.
00:05:33
Speaker
But what what it is, it is a great new tool. And I have heard fantastic things about it over the last few days. And I'm really, really excited about the future of it.
Impact and Optimism of TTOS in Tourism
00:05:43
Speaker
But um on the real down-to-the-numbers game, it was a little bit too late.
00:05:48
Speaker
And what it did is that we missed out on the China rebound travel of the last 12 to 18 months, I believe. So what I have heard is a lot of operators, a lot of travel into East Africa, as they've made it a lot easier, a lot quicker after the ah pandemic period.
00:06:07
Speaker
So I think Cape Town and South Africa is on the back foot there in in the re-engagement and the rebound of travel. But what I have heard over the last few days, it is working. It is working seamlessly. It is working fast. It's got a two to three day turnaround.
00:06:22
Speaker
ah It is delivering. And it has really given trust to the tour operator base here in China. And that for me is the most exciting part. so While we might have missed out on a great season and a good rebound, i believe into the future we will certainly see the TTOS working in our favor ah to bring those tourists back into our city, new tourists into our city. There's been a lot of talk of it over the last few days.
00:06:48
Speaker
I know that we have had a ministerial there a visit here as well. um in Beijing over the last few days, and everything has been positive around TTOS, positive about Africa and South Africa, and so also Cape Town. So yes, I believe TTOS is this magic wand we've been waiting for. um I've heard that it is working, and I surely believe that over the next 12 months, we will see that really rapid return of China travel to South Africa now.
00:07:18
Speaker
ah Good day, everybody. It's Michael Jones, and I'm speaking to you also from um Paris. Jan, you just mentioned about the ministerial ah visit to Beijing. um It seems like your timing for all the Kila Collections team's timing for traveling to China has turned out to be pretty auspicious.
00:07:37
Speaker
um what What have you learned from the Chinese state media and what's happening on social media with what's happening in parallel to what you guys are doing in China right now? Yeah, I think the timing was was just perfect. It wasn't wasn't pre-planned. We learned of the visit um as we touched down in in Beijing.
00:07:56
Speaker
But um I think the timing is brilliant. In every office we've been to, with every person we've been speaking to, South Africa was on top of their mind. and There's been a big global campaign launch.
00:08:07
Speaker
And in Chinese media, on all news channels, every night in the hotel rooms, I've been seeing our Minister of Tourism, Patricia DeLul, being interviewed. I've seen South Africa ah being mentioned in headlines. And I think it's a fantastic moment just to just to bring South Africa to the front again and to the and onto the news channels. And it's all good news stories. I think that is, for me, the most positive thing of this all, this big visit, our visit in China.
00:08:33
Speaker
and The TTOS that's working is that there's a lot of re-engagement ah with South Africa. And to have that broadcast, and I see it myself from the hotel rooms, is just incredible.
00:08:45
Speaker
There's been some good news shared. Obviously, the most of that was around TTOS and its success. um But there's also been some exciting stuff about um some targets and some goals that our government have set in place of tripling the travel numbers into South Africa and having China as one of those key markets for that, ah working better with the Chinese market, better understanding. I think a big thing is also um and the retraining and also reengaging with the South African trade and for them to understand the new style and the new kind of China traveler that have emerged over the last few years.
00:09:20
Speaker
And I think then also much of the exciting news also that he has been making the headlines is the return of a direct flight of Beijing to Johannesburg ah that they have mentioned for October 2025. So there's been a lot of good news.
00:09:35
Speaker
ah South Africa has been on the TV screen. So yes, the timing has been just perfect Great. and And I mean, Jan, you've been to China before. You've met with Chinese trade before in the office before, before as you're doing right now.
00:09:49
Speaker
um Naturally, you've been promoting the Quillet collection for quite some time. And ah yes, at the same time, the quilic what I love about the Quillet collection is that you guys are not static.
00:10:02
Speaker
There's always something. There's always a new development. There's a new project. There's a ah new ah piece of business to bite into. um From talking to the tour operators in Beijing and Shanghai the last few days, and also considering what future plans and investments and projects Aquila is coming up, do you see synergies between the future development of the Aquila collection and the Chinese trade market?
00:10:30
Speaker
Most
Future Developments and Market Alignment
00:10:31
Speaker
certainly. I think um where Aquila stands today with its three major reserves, Aquila Private Game Reserve, Inverduren Private Game Reserve, and the new camp set to open on the 1st of November, Kugana Tented Camp and Ultra Luxury Camp, all three those products really speak to the to the variety and the vast Chinese market. So over the last few days, all three of those products have resonated um with the Chinese market.
00:10:59
Speaker
You know, i think if we think back, and I always hate talking about a pre-pandemic and a post-pandemic, but that's unfortunately with the world where we are. The pre-pandemic world, there was ah an idea of what a Chinese traveler was about, and I can certainly say without offense that it was this idea that it is a mass cheap market to fill beds in South Africa.
00:11:19
Speaker
But my engagement over the last three, four years as we've we've been on this journey um has been that that's not the traveler that is coming to South Africa. And I believe our products really speak well um into that. We've recently added Decker's Flea Wine Estate, which is also the home of the world's first white pinotage, which is 45 minutes from Cape Town. And I think that also works pretty well in the Aquila model of offering that wildlife bucket list moment in Cape Town.
00:11:47
Speaker
What we have found in our discussions over the last few days, Beijing, Shanghai, is that the Chinese trade want for their clients something exciting, almost mice-like packages. i've I've figured that. I've made a note that it feels like it's got to be a famtrip style, a mice style ah package that they want to offer the Chinese trade, ah where they want to have multiple and unique things in one day. They don't want to spend two, three days working in one space. um one One particular operator mentioned, you know, they they were on a fam trip in South Africa, and the two, three days in the Kruger was too long. They don't see that working for their particular client because they want to do multiple things in one day. So when I came back from that, a few discussions was certainly the Cape Town space and the Aquila products sit really well for that. Anything from a day trip, which can be a quick add-on to a wine,
00:12:44
Speaker
a Wineland stop or a Cape City visit or any of the other beautiful things we have in the Western Cape, right through to now pairing wines and the world's first wine pinotage tastings and drinking from the wine barrel en route to Aquila.
00:12:58
Speaker
So really, I think, um like you said, we we're ever-evolving brand um with the new five-star tented camp with all the luxuries that you would want. Also really sits beautifully in that higher-end market here in China.
00:13:11
Speaker
um So really, there's a lot of excitement. The new kind of Chinese traveler, the smaller groups, they they want to be engaging. They want to learn. They want to do educational things. They want to taste food. They want to taste wine. They want to have adventure.
00:13:24
Speaker
But they want to have it in short bursts. um one after the other. And I think that's very exciting. That is a new style of itinerary that will have to be developed. And I can hear and and see from most of the operators I have met with that they are really pushing hard to develop those itineraries because that is what this market wants.
00:13:43
Speaker
um And I believe that Akila sits right in the middle of that being able to offer that. Johan, I kind of want to ask you, as you've sort of informally taken up the mantle of being um ah sort of a force that pushes the Western Cape and Cape Town in the China markets, um whether you whether you like it or not, this is kind of a role you've taken up.
00:14:06
Speaker
I was wondering if I could kind of, if we could maybe give some free free advice to our other compatriots in South Africa in terms of what you've learned in terms of where should South African businesses be focusing their energy, if that makes sense? where Is it the Eastern China market?
00:14:24
Speaker
Can you give us an idea of the sort of specific segment that Western Cape or South African businesses, such as Aquila Collection, would find the most traction in your experience?
00:14:37
Speaker
Sure. I think China as a whole is is a target for us. There's different types of travel that happens throughout China into the Cape. But, you know, like you said, we've kind of taken on this destination marketing role.
00:14:51
Speaker
um by ourselves, engaging in this market and bringing that advice back home. I think the biggest advice that I have for for our Cape products and our Western Cape products is to really be more active on content production, producing content heavy marketing that will really engage with this market. I think the days of just sales calls and boring old brochures are gone.
00:15:18
Speaker
We have to engage the end user directly. And we can only do that if we really invest in content and invest in the channels that the Chinese user use. um And by that way, we can really force the narrative.
00:15:31
Speaker
We've seen it work for ourselves where we are not only here in market and working with the Chinese trade, explaining changes to the Cape product and the excitement of the Cape product where we fit into, um explaining exciting routes, explaining exciting itineraries.
00:15:48
Speaker
But we've also invested heavily into social media content here in this market. And we can certainly see that work where the name of Aquila is out, the Western Cape is mentioned, the Cape is mentioned. So my advice really to our our folks back home, the market can be segmented any your business works.
00:16:07
Speaker
and It is ideal for business travel. It is ideal for mice travel. It's ideal for big events. It's ideal for FIT, families, couples, big groups, small groups, higher-end groups.
00:16:18
Speaker
everything we can Everything we wish for, we can find in the China market. It is now certainly more easier than ever for them to connect with South Africa with TTOS and the upcoming flights and Air China, which is already flying a route into South Africa and then connecting into Cape Town.
00:16:34
Speaker
um So my biggest thing that I've noticed from our previous visit and now is we need more content. We just need more content. um You know, not for singling out many other destinations, but when you look at Saudi or when you look at Dubai and you look at those brands, they are content heavy. Yes, they've got the big budgets behind them, but I think we've got to start somewhere. We can't sit back and say, okay, well, Dubai is on every TV screen, so let us not even compete. I think we can start with influencers.
00:17:03
Speaker
We can start with so many other things. We've got the channels going already um that broadcast Cape Town and Western Cape stories. Let's tell more stories. Let's create more content. And let's be proactive to connect with the end user so that when they have that feeling to travel, they will choose South Africa, they will choose Cape Town.
00:17:20
Speaker
um And then all the other bits and bobs have been set in place already. The TTO o s is in place, the flights are in place. We've engaged the market, we've presented the itineraries, we've done the contracts.
00:17:31
Speaker
And I think that is that is what we are missing out as a nation at the moment, is content into this market. And this market can really feed any style of travel we want into Cape Town.
Effective Marketing Strategies for Chinese Market
00:17:41
Speaker
You know, I must say I wholeheartedly ah agree with exactly what you said now. I mean, precisely for all of those reasons. And I also do believe that the generation of content doesn't necessarily always have to be an expensive exercise. It can be something that can be done in a fairly economical manner.
00:18:01
Speaker
um But I also want to, at the same time, when I look at yourself and Shara Lees and your other colleagues' LinkedIn pages, um you guys are normally on aeroplane. um very frequently.
00:18:13
Speaker
um In fact, there's a famous giraffe in Cape Town airports that often makes it onto your photos. um I mean, I kind of consider you guys to be somewhat like road warriors kind of thing. you You're hitting the road all the time.
00:18:27
Speaker
Now, how would you say is the balance between what you said previously about generating a lot of content and trying to get out there. And then also the actual physical face-to-face ah relationship building process ah with with not not only, it would be nice if you could touch on that specifically for the China market, but generally for the international market.
00:18:51
Speaker
well um Well, thank you for acknowledging all the time that we spend on the aeroplane. um Yes. um You know, it's ah it's a top-down, bottom-up approach because...
00:19:04
Speaker
While we produce content, you can't have a missing link in the middle. And and I think we've we've, as a business and ourselves and as people and the resources we've put in over the last few years globally, and and let's just talk first globally, was to really go out to make sure we engage with every possible person in person, because people buy from people, unfortunately, and fortunately, people buy from people.
00:19:30
Speaker
um If there is a WhatsApp or a WeChat relationship, that makes it so much easier. And so the idea was really to go out into the world and at all points make contact with people.
00:19:41
Speaker
And from that, we developed content strategies like you've mentioned. So personally, we talk about our journey. Personally, we talk about who we've met. Personally, we talk about where we are going. As a brand, we talk about where we are going, what's coming up, what's changing.
00:19:55
Speaker
And I think it's just telling stories more and more and more and telling more stories more often in any possible way. If it's in person, if it's digitally, if it's through traditional media, there's just so many ways we can tell stories. um You know, our strategy to be on an aeroplane is really to engage a global audience.
00:20:15
Speaker
I believe Cape Town, although we have our top 10 key source market, is a place that can and will and is currently appealing to the entire globe. And we've got to go find those pockets of business. We can't just sit back and say, yes, the US and the UK and Germany is number one.
00:20:30
Speaker
So let's sit back. Things are moving. We've got to be ready for any eventuality where there aren't number one or where there is a big decline and find those other pockets of business. And we have identified a few in the world.
00:20:40
Speaker
And China was certainly a key one. and Wrongly we were, we did identify that in the start of the pandemic to say that ah you know the Chinese folk went into the pan pandemic first and therefore our assumptions would be they would come out first and therefore there would be a great market to rebound our business.
00:20:57
Speaker
Well, a little lesson was learned across the globe and it wasn't like that, but it gave us to be on the front foot here to understand the market better by being here. And once again, we've been in market, we were able to engage with the decision makers, we've been able to engage with the traveler to make sure that they know that if they want to travel somewhere, they can go to a place called Cape Town in South Africa and do all of these wonderful things um in a short space from an airport.
00:21:27
Speaker
So Content generation, shouldn't it shouldn't be a mass strategic document. You know, whenever people talk about owing and content strategy, I always hear about these huge documents and six months planning and massive production companies involved.
00:21:43
Speaker
and And it shouldn't be that. People don't even engage with that kind of content. Let's just be real. um people engage with the real content and that real content is telling our own stories, sitting in a room, if that's what it is, with a Chinese operator, having a cigarette in his office and talking about Cape Town, talking about South Africa.
00:22:01
Speaker
you know You mentioned LinkedIn there, um We met with one one Beijing operator, and later that day he did a post, um and where he thanked us for changing his mind about South Africa.
00:22:15
Speaker
Now, that could have could not have been done by a massive multi-million rand campaign. Would he have even seen it? And I believe those are the wins that we have by being on the ground, being the soldiers that we are out there in the world to engage in every possible way we can, in person, on personal profiles, on brand profiles, on every possible platform.
00:22:37
Speaker
It's child telling those stories. We haven't told enough. We just haven't told enough. um and And that particular LinkedIn and post um stood out for me where someone mind was certainly changed about South Africa.
00:22:53
Speaker
To say, hey, today was a great conversation. You've really changed my mind about South Africa. And it's those real, that is what content is about. That's what telling stories are about. That's pretty incredible.
00:23:04
Speaker
And besides, ah so we've been talking about the positives. Earlier, we spoke about the negatives of the previous visa regime, which didn't work, and but now we've got a better visa regime in place.
00:23:16
Speaker
um But besides that, um are there any other smaller, um more on the negative side, ah things that you might have learned from the tour operators or meeting with them in Beijing and Shanghai?
00:23:28
Speaker
um What do you think are still some of the challenges that we still need to overcome from the Western Cape perspective, from the South African perspective? but Where do you think there can be improvements from, again, from getting the South African house in order ah in order to attract vastly more Chinese ah tourists and Chinese spend?
Challenges and Solutions for Attracting Chinese Tourists
00:23:52
Speaker
So this is an interesting question because obviously we all know the number one thing before we even talk about visa crisis usually comes up safety. um And what I do find interesting now, and in and these these are just anecdotal conversations I've been having with people on the street and people in office buildings, is that um The Chinese travel has become such a safe space.
00:24:19
Speaker
you know It's not that the rest of the world was a very bad space, but it's just the way they have become over the last few years that safety is number one, that you can walk with an open handbag and never, ever, ever even have the thought that you would have to be that you could be pickpocketed.
00:24:34
Speaker
So I think um the the entire world is on a back foot there from a safety perspective. But what is quite interesting is I think there is an understanding of how to travel in South Africa for it to be safe.
00:24:48
Speaker
It has not come up that often this time around. I think there is a better understanding. There is a trust of who to use and how to work in South Africa. And so I think that, you know, of a negative point, there there's not been much.
00:25:03
Speaker
I must laugh. And I must tell the story, otherwise I won't be real and true to myself. But so the the the big news currently in China in every meeting we go into is the is the Italian tour bus that was not just robbed, but completely robbed.
00:25:19
Speaker
Now, it's not a laughing matter, but personally, personally and touch wood and i have never been robbed in south africa and the only place i have been robbed was traveling in italy now this for me it's just a full circle moment where the entire chinese market is telling ah every story is about this not just someone wasn't just pickpocketed entire bus was gone um in italy and here i'm sitting in the meetings laughing i'm saying guys for years i've been telling this story that yes It is a dangerous place. Let us not beat about the bush, but it's not dangerous where the people move about. It's not dangerous if you are conscious, and it's not dangerous in the tourist point.
00:25:58
Speaker
And um here we have the same story. I've been telling it for a few years. Only place ever I've been robbed was Italy, and here we have this story that's making the rounds on every kind of channel about a Chinese bus being go off completely gone in China.
00:26:11
Speaker
But, yeah, on the negatives and what we can do to improve, I think there's quite a few things. and Well, not many, but firstly, the safety story, I think it has taken the backseat a bit because there's a lot of positivity about the TTOS.
00:26:24
Speaker
and and And from a safety standpoint, there's been a lot of measures put in locally by various municipalities, by various law enforcement agencies and and places like Cape Town tourism to be to create a c safer space and to create a band-aid environment ah for travelers and especially out of sensitive markets like China.
00:26:45
Speaker
um I think there's the other thing we've got to do is that we've got to do a lot of training on both ends. And I've said that the last time that we were in China and and I go and I'm almost certainly go home with that again on both ends of the spectrum. I think the Chinese market wants something new.
00:27:00
Speaker
And I'm going to say it as blunt as it is. I think the DMC's back home are selling old. I think it's because it's easy. and and that is creating creating frustration in the market.
00:27:11
Speaker
They want something new. They want action-packed. They want fast. They want quick. they want They don't want long flights. They don't want three days at a game lodge and only seeing three Impalas over six game drives and spending hours in a car. they want They want educational tours, nothing boring. They want food adventure. They want...
00:27:31
Speaker
um engaging, exciting things and and they want to learn Western culture and want to immerse themselves in it. ah So I do believe that that that is one thing that we can certainly improve on immediately is that we need more DMCs ah back in South Africa to understand what the Chinese traveler wants these days to make it easier for them to buy and sell.
00:27:53
Speaker
um And then vice versa, um you know, we need to back home, and we need to do a big project to under educate there what the kind of Chinese traveler is and what they want.
00:28:05
Speaker
So there's not many negatives other than holding us back to really perform well. Air connectivity, and It always comes up in any market. It is a long haul destination. You know, I always say any international trip from Cape Town is a nine hour flight minimum.
00:28:23
Speaker
So we can't escape that. So I don't see it as a negative. It must be in our advantage. We must find a way to to tell the story. um But there's been no real negatives and other than one or two safety concerns that always come up wherever we go in the world. It's one of those things.
00:28:39
Speaker
The TTOS is in our favor. And I think the biggest thing is we've got to have the local trade back home understand what the Chinese traveler wants. One thing that they want, which I find quite and challenging though, as as many of them over the last few days have wanted a very short lead time, ah which I find fascinating for such a long haul distance. um So that's something we've got to work at. I've made some notes.
00:29:01
Speaker
How do we tackle that back home specifically in our business? um shortly times very short cancellation times that they are wanting uh for us to be able to activate business so that's something we've got to look at um how do we adapt our model do we do it market specific that stuff we've got to go look at uh one operator asked for 72 hour cancellation periods that is you know that is that is an interesting um new way of business. I understand where it comes from. We see it in our day trip business back home.
00:29:33
Speaker
It comes through the driving force of the OTA market, which is offering that onwards to the end user. ah So we'll have to see how that plays out. But anyway, that those are things that we can work on. They are not negatives. They are not negatives at all.
00:29:46
Speaker
They are things that we can work on to to be ready for this market even more than what we currently are. And ah the last question from my side is, so I always, I prefer to always compare South Africa with Australia in terms of Chinese outbound tourism marketing.
Comparative Tourism Strategies: South Africa vs. Australia
00:30:04
Speaker
um I do feel that they somewhat, somewhat,
00:30:13
Speaker
Somewhat similar in in terms of the the long haul distance, in terms of the offerings and things like that. Look, I'm not going to say which one I prefer. I'm a little bit biased when it comes to that.
00:30:24
Speaker
um But what I do find is that the the Australians have been receiving over a million Chinese tourists. And when I speak to Australian tourism officials, they say, well, that's not enough. We want two million tourists.
00:30:37
Speaker
Now, South Africa doesn't even get close to ah million Chinese tourists yet. um but from you But I've always believed that the potential absolutely is there. And we've got to, like you said, put in all the small building blocks along the way that you've just mentioned. We've got to build it up so that we can get um a lot more momentum going.
00:30:59
Speaker
But I mean, do you foresee in the future something over like five, 10 years, if everybody gets their house in order, a situation where we could be attracting significantly ah larger numbers of Chinese, like at least in the hundred thousands and things like that.
00:31:15
Speaker
And furthermore, do you also possibly foresee any potential in the South, in the future where, for example, like at the Aquila collection or at other hotels and resorts and whatever, we'd actually have um Chinese speaking staff inside the properties and whatever to deal with the larger numbers of Chinese tourists?
00:31:34
Speaker
ah What is your future feeling for this? Sure, that's a multifaceted um ah question. like let Let me start with just the Australian part. and i think at back home, um certainly in the private sector and and some of our tourism bodies, we also look to the Australian example often.
00:31:53
Speaker
We also mention, you know, when we compare the the numbers they get out of India and China there versus us, and then we look at the value proposition that we are a much more affordable destination,
00:32:04
Speaker
um and many other things that we we believe that we could be a better destination. Obviously, there's that South to South competition always. but But yes, we also look to them. And now I think it just goes back to that absolute active way of doing marketing.
00:32:19
Speaker
um The Australian tourism body is extremely active in and in in India and and here in China. on multiple levels. Once again, incredible content, one that's what they do.
00:32:30
Speaker
um I've been looking at at some of the content that they do and that they put out and it's just incredible stuff. It tells a story. It's really inviting. and And you know, South Africa launches once a year or, you know, we go on this big worldwide campaign to launch our new campaign.
00:32:45
Speaker
The current one being launched here in China is Find Your Joy. And that's a once-off kick somewhere in the world. And for the rest of the year, you know Australia and Saudi and all these guys are out there and they are just you know ramping up and ramping up content and content and pushing out content. So I think I go back to that thing. So when we look at the Australian South Africa comparison, um obviously we had a few caveats, which seems we've overcome that, which is the visa crisis. And and now we are looking at better air connectivity.
00:33:17
Speaker
ah We obviously have the big carriers in there already, but it would be great to have better um connections like the um upcoming Fly SAA South African Airways one coming and the current Air China one that is in place.
00:33:29
Speaker
um So, yes, if I look into the future, Certainly, certainly we will see those numbers. i think we are now ready for it. We are set for it. I think we have a government and a minister that has made it very clear of where they see tourists coming from.
00:33:46
Speaker
So into the future, yes, I certainly see that. I certainly see that. my My big thing is there's there's already big travel and a big love and a big understanding of Africa. and We are already seeing, because it was easy, the Chinese traveler flocking into East Africa, even Namibia. um So we were holding back due to a stupid visa problem and we had an air connectivity problem.
00:34:12
Speaker
And I think those two things have been solved and are going to be even better um in the very near future. i believe there's more stuff rolling out on the TTOEOS program to make it even easier and more people brought into the system.
00:34:25
Speaker
um And we're hearing of more air connectivity. So those things are all the very first ah cornerstones that have been laid and that we will now see this thing built on. Chinese tour guides, Chinese guides, Chinese welcome at properties. That's a very interesting question. I think that's a wider question.
00:34:44
Speaker
um i think that's something that we as a sector back home need to look at. um and really go and look at what our tourism offering is and how formalized it is. And I think in some spec in some spaces, we've got to be honest to say that it's not formal enough.
00:34:59
Speaker
We want to develop our smaller towns, we want to push tourism through them, but they aren't really consistent um in their offering. Today, there will be a great guide that can offer a hike and a wine tasting over a mountain top and tomorrow he's gone.
00:35:12
Speaker
So I think we've got to look at formalizing our tourism sector. I think that's a discussion we will have to have back home between ourselves. And we've got all these many bodies ah to talk to and to stir this up and get this going and to formalize what we do back home.
00:35:27
Speaker
And I think if we can do that as a next step, because then we would be able to say, OK, we need ah What do we need to make this even better? We've got all these targets. At one point they had a target that they called five in five, where I wanted five five million tourists in five years.
00:35:41
Speaker
um But how do you get there? What was the plan to get there is what was missing. It's all these middle parts. So certainly now that we are seeing the excitement for South Africa, um I've been hearing September and October, September and October in every meeting I've been in.
00:35:57
Speaker
That is when um they will really start to push South Africa um with the revised and revived itineraries and ideas. And I'm very excited for that. So yes, we are at the starting block of getting to that million tourists from this area, from this region.
00:36:13
Speaker
And it's for us to be back home to say, yeah Are we ready for this? Yes, we are. But now, are we ready on the ground level? Do we have enough ways to move them about? Do we have enough ways to communicate?
00:36:26
Speaker
Do we have the channels ready? Are we interacting on WeChat, Alipay, all these things? Are we accepting union pay? Are we making it easy? Because that is one thing I have noticed, and you know, just going back slightly on the safety conversation.
00:36:39
Speaker
um where where many people have mentioned over the last few days, the Chinese people have developed their own safety infrastructure where they are safe. That's through cameras and all these infrastructure that they've put in place to make it safe.
00:36:51
Speaker
And um so we are worlds behind, not just in and not just in South Africa, I think as a globe, we are worlds behind creating that safety net. But what they've done even further is the absolute convenience that they've brought to the Chinese person.
00:37:03
Speaker
and For me, it's mind-boggling to be here every time. Just the super, super convenience that they have. I've been trying to find hairspray for the last three days. Now, it's most probably the funniest, easiest thing to find in China with an app and be delivered within three minutes to your hotel. um So with one of with one of your team members, I had a chat on WeChat earlier, and she gave me a location of a Watson store, which is obviously a pharmaceutical and whatever brand.
00:37:33
Speaker
And I made my way there and the security guy at the bottom of the building laughed at me. I said, okay, I want to go to this place. It's on the map. And he said, okay, on the 10th floor. I went up and there was ah what it was a Watson's store, but it was a massive depot on the 10th floor of a school building just down the block from my hotel where I'm sitting right now.
00:37:53
Speaker
So I think when I look at those kind of things, we need to rethink what we want to, once we are receiving the Chinese traveler, are we ready for it? oh How are we going to interact? How are we going to make it easy for them? Are we going to find ways as a sector to accept WeChat and Alipay payments? Because certainly cash is not seen on the street here in in China. and So are we going to make it easy for them? Are we going to make it safe? So I think those are the future discussions we're going to have to have back home.
00:38:20
Speaker
And I think if there are companies like ourselves which are at the forefront, which is we never say no. You know, we were asked this by one particular operator over the last few days. Will you be able to find or can we bring a Chinese guy to be on the safari? The answer is yes.
00:38:36
Speaker
It shouldn't be a big strategic document. It should be yes, we want you to come and visit. We are excited to have you. We are open arms ready for you. And yes, we will find or you can bring a Chinese guy.
00:38:46
Speaker
And we've just got to go find those unique things in all of the markets, and not just out of China, for us to really and unlock that market potential that we have in South Africa that we all believe that we are all working towards.
00:38:58
Speaker
But I think we've got to step back from all these big strategic documents and long term visions and let's just go and make it happen. Going to market and let's experiment. Find 10 tour operators that's willing to send people over the next six months and let's work with them and let's hold hands and let's develop a product that really stands out, which it already is, is unique. It is bucket list, but really that just works and creates this net.
00:39:23
Speaker
ah specifically for the Chinese traveler to be comfortable and to travel easy. My final question to you is, ah we we like to end up our segment just with a ah quick question about favorite destinations to travel or to go to work.
Personal Travel Insights and Cultural Experiences
00:39:37
Speaker
So I'd like to know from you, you know, first of all, which Chinese city kind of clicks the best with you? And then sort of secondly, worldwide, which international city worldwide do you enjoy visiting the most?
00:39:52
Speaker
Wow. Okay, that's on the spot. I don't want to offend any destination. um Short answers. What I remember the most from China is always Shanghai. It's lovely to walk the streets.
00:40:08
Speaker
It's ah such an accessible city. um The people are fantastic. um We can communicate slightly easier in English, if I found. I might be wrong, but that's just personally. um And it's just it's just great walking the streets, the small cafes, the restaurants, i'm you know, all these little Michelin-style places.
00:40:27
Speaker
um and they're all in walking distance and you can walk down in the alley and there's shopping and there's people and there's flavors and there's color um and there's experience and it's just so it's really fulfilling um and i really love that of shanghai and um in the world this is i'm going to say eastern europe And I'm going to leave it at that.
00:40:50
Speaker
I love all the Eastern European um countries. um When I visited Kyiv and Ukraine for the very first time, I flew back home and I said, wow, I'm going to move here.
00:41:02
Speaker
I'm going to pack up my life. i'm going to set up an office. And that has expanded. It is Eastern Europe as a space I just love. I love traveling there. Poland, Czech Republic, um those areas.
00:41:14
Speaker
Don't know why. um I think it's wine and food, that kind of, which is very similar to back home. There's a big wine culture, ah Georgia, that area. So Eastern Europe, favorite place, all of the countries there.
00:41:28
Speaker
And in China, come and walk the streets of Shanghai. Johan, thank you so much. thank you Thank you. Thank you so much. If you have any questions or comments about the topics that we discussed on today's show, please feel free to reach out to us at marketingatcconsulting.com.cn or you can hit us up on LinkedIn at Create Consulting.
00:41:51
Speaker
We look forward to your feedback.