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China Tourism Tuesday Episode 21
14 Plays2 months ago
Today, we speak to Philip van der Walt of African Travel Company (ATC), an Africa overland truck and camping adventure company that has found real traction in the China market.
For those who thought the China market was all glamping and group tours, Philip breaks down play by play how ATC found a real foothold in the China market – proving once and for all that, with the right strategic marketing thinking, the curious Chinese travel market can be won over.
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Transcript
Introduction to China Tourism Tuesday
00:00:02
Speaker
Hello and welcome to China Tourism Tuesday, discussion of marketing outbound tourism destinations in the China market. Today we have a special guest and a long time friend of the show, Philip van der Waalte from ATC.
00:00:18
Speaker
ah Philip, welcome
Overview of ATC's Operations
00:00:19
Speaker
to the show. I was hoping you could maybe just to start off for the people who don't know about you guys, give us a quick intro about what do you guys do. Yeah, thanks, Shell. Thanks for introducing me to your show. I hope it won't be the last time.
00:00:36
Speaker
Yeah, basically ATC has been going for just over 30 years, started by Australian operator based in Kenya. We do basically overland ah camping and accommodated safaris across 15 countries in southern and east Africa. It basically started in the early 80s when all the expats used to travel back from the UK back to Australia or New Zealand or South Africa and they did a trans-Africa it was long. It was 8, 9, 12 weeks, London to Cape Town.
ATC's Success with Chinese Travelers
00:01:15
Speaker
But subsequently through the years that that fell away and it became more structured two to three week holidays, whether it's Cape Town, Nambibia, Botswana, Zimbabwe, or Zimbabwe right up to Kenya, all in segments of two to three weeks.
00:01:34
Speaker
um And that's basically what we've been doing on a scheduled departure level as well as as on a private group level where somebody can basically come up with an itinerary, come up with the amount of days and we put it together. we booked the accommodation, the camping, the lodges, ah the tour guide, um the drivers, the cooks, the whatever. we yeah We put it all together with the vehicles that we run.
00:02:03
Speaker
That's basically us in a nutshell.
00:02:08
Speaker
Great. Thanks, Philip. So I think when when people hear your company intro, the first thing that comes to mind wouldn't necessarily be Chinese travelers. Yet you guys have managed to make a good go in the market.
00:02:21
Speaker
Could you perhaps tell us a little bit about your your journey and your experience working with the China market? Well, yes. I did ah about 12 years ago. I started my research and um found Michael on The internet and made contact with him. He thought it's not a bad idea to pop over to China and meet him and his partner, Eileen, which I subsequently did. To be very honest, Michael wasn't very keen. He didn't think the Chinese people would be interested in camping overland trips at all.
00:02:59
Speaker
And Eileen on the contrary said, no, she thinks this is something new, fresh, ah never thought about in the Chinese market. And geez, in the first year, I think we just had 100 clients that booked. And through the years, it's just been growing and growing to the extent that, yes, people worldwide think the Chinese people just do the big business.
Unique Preferences of Chinese Travelers
00:03:25
Speaker
coaches, air-conditioned, luxury hotels, shopping, holidays. um But on the contrary, there is a ah huge gap in the market, which we saw to to target the Chinese market to come to Africa on a on a completely different level than the normal hotel type of holiday.
00:03:47
Speaker
um Yes, so ah that's everybody, it's Michael here from Amsterdam. There's a little bit of ah a backstory also to this with Philip Winford. Indeed, Philip is 100% correct. When he first contacted us, um I thought he was a little bit crazy.
00:04:02
Speaker
And then he did ask, said, well, if I fly to Beijing, can we have coffee together? And I was like, absolutely. We can have more than coffee if you come to Beijing. And that's exactly how it started. ah We we ah thought it was a bit audacious. And ah but lo and behold, turns out that there absolutely is actually quite a strong market for this.
00:04:22
Speaker
And to take this a little bit further, ah this is clearly not luxury travel. um i mean, ah tell us a little bit about the details. I mean, like like the details of the transport, the details of how the people are accommodated in the evenings. ah Where do they sleep? How do they sleep?
00:04:45
Speaker
About the food? um Yeah, can you please just give us a little bit more of a deep dive of the actual nitty gritty of it? No problem. Well, basically, as I said, a lot of things have changed over the years.
00:04:56
Speaker
It used to be really roughing it and loving it um and camping wild wherever you got to. But things have changed over the years that on a normal camping tour now, it would have been 21 days just camping. But now we split it up to the extent that they do three or four day camping and then stay in a nice three star accommodation style lodge or hotel.
00:05:23
Speaker
um The camping now these days, it has to be in a fixed designated campsite. um which has got nice ablutions, um but it basically boils down, you arrive, ah you still have to, you've shown in the beginning how to, but you still have to put up your intent.
00:05:41
Speaker
um Some of the groups like to participate in helping the preparation of the food, but food is mainly done on open fire. um in the evenings um and it's a variety of barbecue or pastas or a variety even with the Chinese market we're doing a hell of a lot of things Chinese type of style of food these days um so things have definitely changed over the years.
00:06:09
Speaker
Lunches are usually a short stop somewhere in a nice area where a table gets put up and people have cold meats and cheeses and salads and stuff like that and breakfast is also a variety of a western type of style breakfast if we're staying two days at a campsite then there will be bacon and eggs and toast and and things like that um or else if it's a long day it's basically some cereal some toast and
00:06:43
Speaker
And a coffee and off you go. um But, yeah, then there's obviously also the accommodated style where it could be a 21-day staying in three- and four-star hotels. It's it's more the the style of travel that's become popular.
00:06:58
Speaker
um People, these overland trucks are a big ah um trucks that can travel on dirt roads more so than the big luxury coaches um with big, huge
Demographics of Chinese Tourists
00:07:13
Speaker
sliding windows. So it's the experience for the people of of seeing the vast Southern Africa um from a elevated level um and to be able to get to various places where normal vehicle or bus can't go.
00:07:28
Speaker
Saying that our trucks are not 4x4, they are 2x4s but they can obviously go to on much more rugged roads. And that's basically it.
00:07:40
Speaker
Philip, I want to also i've just follow up on that and then kind of ask you specifically looking at the visitors who are coming in from China. Can you give us an idea of, you know, where they're coming from, how old they are, just so we can get like a picture in our mind of of who these travelers are?
00:08:02
Speaker
Well, the The strange thing is obviously our target market has always been an average age of 27 to 37 from the Western world. um But out of the Chinese market, our average age now, I would say is 60. So it's definitely the more retired people, um the people that's got money, um lot of family coming with with with with youngsters.
00:08:30
Speaker
um a lot of teachers um that has the time um but to answer your question definitely average age anything between 50 to 65 I think the oldest person we've had was was one of the first clients about 11 years he was just on I think 84 and he did a 57 day tour without speaking a word of English um I actually met him in China Hell of a nice guy.
00:09:00
Speaker
um But he actually opened the door in a sense for the Chinese to to show that you can travel without actually being able to speak English. um And he was adventurous. And every month it just becomes more and more clear that there is much more adventurous type of people out there.
00:09:22
Speaker
English is always going to be a challenge. A lot of Chinese agents send tour leaders with. um and But on the younger side, people are coming to to to practice their English.
00:09:35
Speaker
What we find is the majority of people out of the Chinese market are mainly in the Guangzhou area. um that that You call it your south of China.
00:09:47
Speaker
I think the their mentality of travel is much more adventurous than people from the likes of Beijing and Shanghai.
00:10:00
Speaker
um There are more city sleekers and hotel type of people saying that we do get people from there, but definitely pro the majority would be coming from the South.
00:10:11
Speaker
Yeah, hectic. And tell me, ah you you probably alluded to it a little bit. um Having said that, what do you find are... What do you think satisfies your Chinese customers the most? What what do they get the most pleasure from out of these trips?
00:10:28
Speaker
And then also at the same time, what do you find the most challenging to dealing with the Chinese clientele? And therefore, like how flexible are you guys in terms of trying to cater a little bit more to their preferences?
00:10:45
Speaker
Michael, too, yeah, the biggest challenge is always going to be language. um But modern technology is helping. A lot of the Chinese are coming with their little translating machines and things like that. But it's it's always going to be a challenge because from a tour guide's point of view, you want to share your passion 100% with the client. So ah that is the sad part when it comes to...
00:11:09
Speaker
China is that we cannot communicate as much as we would like to the majority of people traveling. Obviously the guys do their best. um and
00:11:23
Speaker
and chip Challenges, there is always going to be ah their expectations. ah The Chinese market ah it sounds very bad, but sometimes oversells a specific product.
00:11:40
Speaker
And obviously these Chinese people have saved a lot of money to travel. But luckily, the Chinese people are open minded enough to once they've arrived,
00:11:51
Speaker
um They just love the experience. I think for them to be able to travel abroad is already win. For them to be away from home and in a foreign country is it's a huge win.
00:12:05
Speaker
They are, that sense, very easy to deal with. um We obviously have to alter for the Chinese market a few things in the sense of helping them much more, helping them much more to put up their tents.
00:12:22
Speaker
Food is is is is always going to be an issue. The Chinese are completely different from the Western world in the sense of noodles and hot water and teas and and things like that. But we we've catered for it.
00:12:34
Speaker
and I think we're very successful these days in it. um We even have Chinese hot pot on some of our tours, which I never thought I'll ever see in my life. um But in in general, the feedback that I've received over the last 10 years is the Chinese people love Africa.
00:12:54
Speaker
um They are not Again, i compared and to to what we've been dealing with over the last 30 years, they are happy with everything in the sense. you know Europeans and Americans want to just see the big five and animals, animals, animals. Chinese are happy with ah landscape, with culture, with wildlife. They're not going to spend a whole day on a game drive like the Americans would do, for instance.
Challenges and Satisfaction in Catering to Chinese Tourists
00:13:23
Speaker
they They like to take their picture and move on because they want to get as much in per day as possible. For them, as you know, photos, pictures is is the most important thing. So the more they can see and do in a day, the better.
00:13:39
Speaker
um Sometimes sad because they spend a lot of time behind their phone and behind their cameras. um And I'm sure they'll all go back home and then look at the photos. um But yeah, in general, I think for me personally, the Chinese reminds me a lot about the French. As long as their stomachs are full and the food was great, they're very, very happy.
00:14:06
Speaker
um The rest we can deal with. And that's basically them in a nutshell. you Give the Chinese good food and a good experience and they leave here as amazing clients.
Future Prospects in China's Outbound Tourism
00:14:19
Speaker
Oh, that's super fascinating. And tell me, how do you see the the future of this market evolving over the next five to ten years? Michael, the reason I went to China was it is by far China and India the only two growing there ah countries in the world when it comes to tourism.
00:14:36
Speaker
um There is such a... ah vast amount of people that want to travel compared to Europe and and and and the rest of the Western world which are used to traveling.
00:14:49
Speaker
um And I just believe it will increase ah more and more each year. The more people actually do this type of travel, the word will also spread back home um and it will become word of mouth that have you ever done an overland tour through southern or east Africa? um yo you They'll be talking to their next day neighbors, their family.
00:15:14
Speaker
um Word of mouth will become a very, very big marketing tool in the Chinese market.
Marketing Strategies for Engaging Chinese Market
00:15:20
Speaker
Yeah. And um my last question is, um other than the word of mouth marketing, um I think something that Shao also likes to often ask about is, um ah what what are your kind of like rough plans for the future? What are your thoughts about the use of ah promoting exactly your kind of products on like Chinese social media, whether it be Hongshu WeChat or any of those platforms? or what your What is your take on that?
00:15:49
Speaker
ah Michael, we obviously we use ah a local DMC in in in China um that helps us with all the social media part, the advertising part, the getting us into the door to wholesalers, retailers.
00:16:03
Speaker
um And we travel ourselves two to three times a year to China. um to various shows, whether it's local shows ah hosted in China or shows hosted by our tourism boards.
00:16:21
Speaker
um And then obviously we do a lot of um visits to our existing agents, follow up visits and and talking about future and new tours.
00:16:32
Speaker
um I mean, yes, like I said in the beginning, our representative of Africa Create over there does a hell of a lot of work for us in all the provinces in finding new to operators that are interested in this style of travel.
Conclusion and Feedback Invitation
00:16:49
Speaker
Cool. Well, Philip, um thank you so much for sharing your thoughts today with her with this very unique and fascinating industry that you're in.
00:17:00
Speaker
i really appreciate you coming on the show. Thank you for giving me the opportunity. And um hopefully we'll all be chatting soon on one of your China Tuesday morning chats.
00:17:13
Speaker
If you have any questions or comments about the topics that we discussed on today's show, please feel free to reach out to us at marketingatcconsulting.com.cn or you can hit us up on LinkedIn at Create Consulting.
00:17:26
Speaker
We look forward to your feedback.