Transcript
Speaker: Hello and welcome to China Tourism Tuesday, a discussion of marketing international tourism destinations in the China outbound tourism markets. My name is Charles Baten and I'm coming to you today from Shanghai, China once again.
Speaker: And today we are talking to Chung, Create Consulting's trade relations expert and practitioner. So just to start off, Amy, could you perhaps tell us a little bit about where you are and what you do?
Speaker: Hi. oh Yes, ah this is Amy from China. Yes, ah but I'm currently in South Africa. And the oh I was attending the biggest travel show in Daba in South Africa, Durban.
Speaker: early on last week and now I'm in Cape Town for ah visiting the two of the private reserves. One is called Aquila and another is called Inverder.
Speaker: I had wonderful experiences in those reserves and ah couldn't wait to share some of them with you. Great. um Amy, i I want to just also ask you, i've got two questions for you.
Speaker: ah The first one was, i understand you were in Daba, in Durban. And I would like to just check with you, what was your, but could you get a good gauge and on what people's sentiments were about the China markets from the Africa and South Africa side?
Speaker: Yes, I met a journalist ah during the travel show, and I think from her point of view may ah represent some of the media's point of view about the Chinese market. They want to know what are the Chinese guests and to operators, trade are interested ah in the trade show and what are the trends?
Speaker: Has ah there been any changes of the trends? in recent years, how they find trade show, how they find the Indaba and what they think about those expaters in the show.
Speaker: any um are they Have they been quite successful in terms of the forecast of the future business with those trade professionals andeds I see.
Speaker: And just from your side, um i was hoping you could tell us a little bit about how you felt about South Africa as a destination for Chinese visitors now that visa issues are a bit easier.
Speaker: Yeah, I think it's quite an exciting point to discuss ah because South Africa tourism changed the ah branding. They rebranded, ah they come up with a new slogan called, come find your way and South Africa awaits.
Speaker: There are many exporters from South Africa as the a large hall full of ah largest and the and and tour operators from South Africa.
Speaker: And the we have like over 30 Chinese tour operators attended this ah Indaba show. And they said it's very overwhelming experience.
Speaker: And they met so many ah trade professionals, exporters, which could help them to come up with a new itinerary. And they are so excited. They joined farm tour later on.
Speaker: And i saw people posting WeChat, the editorial articles on WeChat moments every day. Like one person posts like more than 10 posts about their experiences in Kruger National Park for them the longest zip line.
Speaker: in Cape Town and they do the parachute jumping in ah from Table Mountain. They are very excited. So I think that would certainly help them to ah come up with ah new itineraries and boost the tourism arrivals to South Africa.
Speaker: Hi, everybody. It's Michael here from Amsterdam. Amy, um you've been promoting ah tourism products in the China market for quite a number of years now. But this is the first time that you've actually been yourself to Southern Africa.
Speaker: Yes. Was there anything obvious that that surprised you all or challenged your thinking about the way you understood the destination before you had ah seen it yourself?
Speaker: o There is nothing compared with ah you promoting a destination. read everything on the paper and ah see things from the video but you actually where you'll be here is like um very exciting and ah overwhelming experience. in so So I think that may, I met two of the Chinese ah tourists in one of the private reserve Aquila. I think, yeah, I quite agree with them.
Speaker: ah There is, um South Africa is, ah is but anything you cannot imagine before you actually arrived here.
Speaker: It's so very vibrant and people are quite friendly. it's it's just i I knew people are friendly from South Africa, but when you actually got here, you you'll feel fascinating and quite touched about so how they treated you.
Speaker: um And I visited the Table Mountain ah um after the Indaba show. It's it's a absolutely fantastic and breathtaking experiences.
Speaker: I think I also quite like the Durban well. It's the... yeah
Speaker: The weather is so nice and the people are very nice and the city view is just absolutely fantastic. So I think it's when I got to, when I on the flight from Durban to ah Cape Town, I thought I just think there is no reason that Chinese people would not enjoy their experience in South Africa.
Speaker: Definitely because visa is not a problem any longer. so I think the tourism deficit will boost. That's very interesting insight.
Speaker: And tell me, as a Chinese person traveling to Southern Africa, how did you find the the local food and the drinks and like from the kind of the ah food and beverage point of view?
Speaker: I think the food is quite interesting. And i didn't need I didn't have any Chinese food so far. But I think like the curry dishes and meat, the Chinese people would not have any problem with that.
Speaker: Also the drink is, I personally like wine, enjoyed wine tasting very much. And also the I think Chinese people like the South African wine and the whosing in Cape Town and Durban as well.
Speaker: That's quite interesting that you didn't go to a Chinese restaurant once. Well, I'm assuming you also your your time was a bit limited. I would have been quite curious about what you thought of the Chinese restaurants in Southern Africa, but but nevertheless.
Speaker: um So, you I mean, from your perspective, I mean, you've traveled quite a bit around the world before. Do you think it would be for for something like a seven-day stay, for Chinese tourists who come out for a seven-day stay, you think ah the local cuisine would be okay for them to handle for seven days without having to go to a Chinese restaurant?
Speaker: Yeah, I absolutely think so. yeah Oh, wow. That's quite a key point then. Amy. Sorry. Please go ahead. Yeah. Sorry, Michael.
Speaker: Amy, I want to ask you sort of something that's been sitting quite top of mind for me as I've also been in in South Africa recently. I've always understood that, you know, East Africa, you know, Tanzania, um Kenya, they have the Serengeti. They're just a little bit closer.
Speaker: I wonder what you think about, for example, Cape Town, the fact that it offers a very sort of multicultural, vibrant city experience that can be packaged together with a safari experience nearby like Akilah.
Speaker: yeah how would How do you see that that difference between Eastern African travel for China as opposed to and in competition with South Africa, specifically Cape Town?
Speaker: I think that's a totally different experiences. um I understand that they are all long-haul destinations, South Africa and Tanzania and Kenya, but personally, I think people would, I highly recommend they not come, like, choose one or another.
Speaker: It's both destinations, uh, very worth to visit. ah Like South Africa, Cape Town is totally different. And like the Chinese guy we met the private reserve, ah he said ah he visits, um he is on the business trip. He visited European countries many times.
Speaker: And he always thought ah South Africa africa and African countries are different. um But once he got to Cape Town, he thought, of wow, that's so a very vibrant and lively and urban city.
Speaker: And it's nothing, it's quite like a European city with a city. nice architectures and nice people around.
Speaker: So it's ah not only about the safari experience, it's about so you experience the culture and ah tos so completely there is nothing elsewhere compared with Cape Town and I think also Durban as well.
Speaker: So I would not think that they are in a competitive position. That's interesting that you say that because from the South African perspective, we're always kind of thinking about, you know, how can we be almost the one and only or the main destination that international tourists come to?
Speaker: We kind of want to you know, throw ah catch everything in one net um to get safaris, to get culture, to get multicultural sort of city experiences in one go.
Speaker: But it's interesting that you're saying that these countries have such distinct brands in China ah in my in In my imagination, they they have very similar brandings almost, the the the wildlife experiences, but you but you said it's not true? Yeah,
Speaker: I think it's not only about wildlife experiences, it's about a lot of more things to do in South Africa. So I would, yeah.
Speaker: Another quick question that that's been also sitting top of my mind, especially having been in Françooke wine region recently, is wine tourism for the Western Cape.
Speaker: Now, As I understand it, you know, our European and and American tourists and local South Africans like myself as well, we will enjoy maybe a half day or a full day wine tour where you can really, you know, experience the whole range of wine farms, just like South African culture.
Speaker: we We enjoy a bit of of of wine. I was wondering from the Chinese point of view, it seems to me, just my impression, that Chinese tourists would far prefer to have a very, very high end experience of just one or two farms and not do a lot of volume, both of destinations and of wine, but rather to do just a few, just try it out and then that's that's enough for them. What do you think about that?
Speaker: um Yeah, I would agree with you. i think there are not of Chinese tourists that drink wine, first of all. and But I think they would love to see the race in those wineries.
Speaker: And also the farm tour for the Chinese tour operators, they want the wine. the one they call the French town, the little French town.
Speaker: And they enjoy it a lot. Yeah, they enjoy the local market. And it's not only about wine tasting experiences. They enjoy the autumn sceneries in the, yeah, it's like outdoor adventure for them.
Speaker: so I think for Chinese ever visit the wineries, it's not only about the wine tasting, it's also about the nature experiences.
Speaker: Amy, just one more question from my side. um i want to to The impression that I get with lot of Chinese groups coming to South Africa is it's quite important to arrange that they have very good photography moments. So to be able to capture a certain scene, like you said, of nature.
Speaker: so within product, you need to have a very specific, say, okay, we're stopping here and this is photo time. And to really get some good memories documented for social media.
Speaker: And that is not so much about the the the full experience of going and tasting wine and drinking a lot of wine. It's more about the, you know, the, the, the,
Speaker: the photo, the image, and keeping the memory for social media. Is that accurate? Yes, yes, I totally agree. Yeah, I think that is 100% true.
Speaker: um Amy, let me also just jump in now and ask you. So with ah traditionally, when people are speaking about the Chinese outbound tourism market, they're normally talking about the three golden week, well, type of times of travel, Chinese New Year, May, and October.
Speaker: um I mean, ah you are a proud mother. um Now that you've traveled to Southern Africa and seen a bit of the wildlife and things like that, do you do you think that there's ah possibly more of a gap in the markets from the the children's school holidays in the summer, ah the July-August period in China at least,
Speaker: ah which is admittedly the wintertime of southern Africa. But we also know that in the wintertime, you actually see the most animals.
Speaker: um that does Is that possible? Yeah, I think it is possible. And for ah the family travelers coming to South Africa during the ah yeah summer period of July and August,
Speaker: ah also the Chinese New Year as well. i ah In addition to that, I think that there are some schools in China, they do have the spring holiday in April.
Speaker: It's about one week or yeah a week long or two weeks. So that is a holiday period that Chinese parents could bring their child overseas.
Speaker: overseas And do you think there's any potential, for example, like, um I don't know, maybe school groups are bit young, but like for actual school groups or young professionals, like people that are in some kind of educational institution to come out as groups like a class travel, would that be possible? Or is it a little bit far away?
Speaker: I think that is is like an educational tour. Yeah, that is... so quite a popular trend, but the to be honest, I'm not sure how the visa can work out in South Africa for the children travel alone, because the it used to be quite strict that whoever lead the group, they needed to prepare the like a document to approve that
Speaker: parents allow those people. I think that's ah from that point, i'm but I'm not sure how the visa kind of works out for the children travel along without their parents.
Speaker: Okay. And um also more like lastly from my side, more on the trade side. So you were at Indaba for the entire period of the time.
Speaker: This is clearly the first time you've been to a tourism show in Africa. how What was your impressions of Indalbo compared with what you used to like ITB and COTTM in China?
Speaker: What were impressions just in general? I think it's, ah yeah, the oh I think the scale is more or less the same. as There are two large hosts for hosting this trade show.
Speaker: And for the... ah For the ITB China, there are a lot of tour operators and ah countries from overseas destinations, like tourism boards bring local suppliers with.
Speaker: It's similar in Indaba, there is separate hall in ah for the tourism board. Tanzania, Malawi and Zimbabwe and to that those provincial tourism board from South Africa.
Speaker: is I think it's quite a large scale from um because for ah Zambia alone, I think they have more than 30 suppliers with them for this single show, which is quite interesting. And normally the last day, the exhibition is very quiet and the people are preparing to ah take their flight back home.
Speaker: But on the last day, the morning time, I visit some stands. and they are quite full and people still sitting there discussing, ah have meetings with between each other.
Speaker: So it's quite interesting interesting. I see so for the buyers and the suppliers, they
Speaker: ah they they really take this opportunity seriously. And I heard from um people who attend Indaba every year and ah he thought this year it was great. And the level is back to six or seven years ago.
Speaker: ah Last year or the year before, it may be a bit quieter than this year. Okay. Amy, just a quick question from me. I'd like to understand your experience on maybe the most important aspect of traveling to a country, which is which is you know convenience of payments and phone cards and data and so on. Let's start with payments. That's always been a bit of a problem with um international travel for Chinese tourists.
Speaker: What was your experience like? as you arrived in South Africa with getting your cards and I know that Apple Pay can have some problems. WeChat Pay is obviously not really an option in South Africa.
Speaker: Talk to us a little bit about what your experience was with setting up payments as a Chinese person in South Africa.
Speaker: To be honest, I don't have a apple iPhone, so I couldn't use Apple Pay. And I withdraw some cash from the ATM, which is easier. They all can use a credit card or debit card to withdraw the cash from ATM. So I have some local currencies.
Speaker: and the So I have a credit card. Most places they can accept the credit card or cash. ah So from that point of view, it is easier.
Speaker: so But in some places my credit card doesn't work out. I don't know why, so I have to use cash instead, but um it is not a huge problem.
Speaker: It's a rather um minor problem. So it's, but for it is true, I think in airports we can use WeChat, Alipay, but except that places wait we can use cash and credit card in South Africa.
Speaker: Okay. It's good to hear that Alipay is beginning to have a small footprint in South Africa. Yeah. Yeah, because it is very important. Yeah. and And then lastly, from my side, out of the Chinese buyers delegation that was at Indaba, who were they? Where were they from? Were they from all over China? Were they only tour operators?
Speaker: What kind of segments of the tour operators were there with any media? Tell us a little bit about the group that was Yes, yeah I think there are are ah roughly less around six or seven media groups in the group and 32 operators, more than 32 operators.
Speaker: they yeah They are from all the major cities from China, like Beijing, Shanghai, Guangzhou, Hangzhou.
Speaker: and Shenzhen as well. And they are the key wholesaler, wholesale tour operators and retail tour operators.
Speaker: And also some ah people from the large tour operator from the MICE and ah incentive travel sectors.
Speaker: Oh, wow. That's quite a delegation. yeah And their overall impressions in in your opinion? Do you think they left continent satisfied? the left southern africa left the continent satisfied I think from, yeah i I saw people posting WeChat articles every day. I think at least that each of them posts three or four, maybe ah sometimes I count 10 posts per day.
Speaker: So they are very excited. They were in Kruger National Park for two days and they do the stargazing. and the Fair Work Party, also the safari experience were quite interesting for them.
Speaker: And I think they are super satisfied and that they are super happy. Okay. So they were all at in Darba and then they went to Kruger National Park afterwards. I think they first arrived in Darba and then they ah came to Cape Town for two days and then they went to the French town and then they went to Kruger National Park.
Speaker: Oh, wow. So that's quite a good balance. um I mean, yeah, totally. At the end of the day, I suppose they also have limited time. So they packed in quite a bit then.
Speaker: Um, yeah, ah lastly, I mean, my my last question for you from my side is, um, if, if you were to give any recommendations to, either South Africa tourism or to South African tourism related products, whether they be resorts or, or, or whichever, what, what would your suggestions be for, uh, for, uh, the China outbound tourism market?
Speaker: Yeah, I think, the yes, ah so that's probably very cliche topic. I think there should be more Chinese tour guide, even in the place I visit, Aquila and even,
Speaker: if there are any Chinese speaking staffs and they could assist the Chinese groups for the their stay. So that would be an add up benefit advantage for them. Yeah.
Speaker: Okay. Okay, great.
Speaker: Charles, do you have any more questions for Amy? All good from my side, Michael. Okay, great. Well, Amy, thank you so much for your time. Really appreciate you getting up so early in the morning.
Speaker: You can watch a bit of your last African sunrise, so to speak. And ah you're flying back to China today, right? ah Tomorrow, yeah. Tomorrow, okay, fantastic.
Speaker: And yeah, and we we'll be seeing everybody back in Beijing again. Yeah, thank you so much. See you soon. Thank you. thanksamy Shall I read us out?
Speaker: Yeah, go for it. Cool. If you have any questions or comments about the topics to just discussed in today's episode, please feel free to send us an email at marketing at cconsulting.com.cn or you can also find us on LinkedIn at Create Consulting.
Speaker: We look forward to hearing from you. Thank you.
