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TSP Ep 136: The Many Troubles of Post or Communication!
27 Plays1 month ago
In this episode, Tom and Steve update everyone on their latest adventure in post hell, discussing the issues of post audio and lack of communication and the troubles it can lead to when being too passive.
So come along with us as we learn a thing or two!
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Transcript
Introduction to the podcast and hosts
00:00:00
Speaker
All right, everybody, this is TSP, who knows what? Twin Shadows podcast, the podcast about film, filmmaking, and filmmakers, brought to you by Tom and Steve. And we're coming off of talking to our POST team for sound. So this is an episode about POST sound.
00:00:18
Speaker
This was a it was a bit of a a scary moment, but it was... Why was it scary? it was Explain it to us. It was kind of a wake-up call ah in a lot of ways, ah because...
00:00:30
Speaker
And I would never put any blame on Adam or Pat on this. No, I mean, as the directors, you know what? All responsibility falls on us. yeah if it's not getting If it's not getting figured out, it's our fault.
00:00:45
Speaker
we were we had gotten two lax With ah just communicating and also just meeting up well with Adam and Pat. Well, kind of break it down, go from the start to
Communication challenges with audio team
00:00:57
Speaker
where we are now. Sure.
00:00:58
Speaker
So a couple months ago, maybe I want to say it was before Sylvia was born. So we had a meeting with Adam and Pat.
00:01:09
Speaker
That's probably five months ago. and Maybe six months ago. A week It was definitely before she was born and probably before Sophia's birthday, which is 31st. So, yeah, I want to say like... Like the first week of ah November then? Maybe like ah first week of October.
00:01:28
Speaker
Yeah. Okay. That was probably the last time we had a video call with our audio team. Yeah. um And that during that video call, we had heard the first passes of the score.
00:01:40
Speaker
And we had met and talked about and just discussed the score. where we where were very nonchalant and we were just kind of worried because there were some tracks that we didn't like and it was it was it was radically different from the temp in some ways. And in in some ways it wasn't.
00:02:00
Speaker
And in couple ways it was better. ah And then we worked on stuff and we gave notes and then we met. And then, you know, Sylvia was born and we hadn't really met. And then we got.
00:02:15
Speaker
Well, we were just saying, hey, man, follow whatever your heart desires. I think the biggest issue with everything that we've done so far coming from our level is that we give people a lot of freedom and, you know, we're not paying them enough to have freedom.
Creative boundaries and artistic decisions
00:02:37
Speaker
We need to establish parameters for them to work in. And we never have done that. Well, we haven't worked with anyone yet. No, but even in like when we were doing,
00:02:50
Speaker
um principal photography, when we were working with like wardrobe and all of that, we're just like, hey, man you know explore what you think is right.
00:03:02
Speaker
And no one has ever done that. And I think at our level, you got to have parameters and you got to give it to people and tell them, like look, this is what we're working with. This is what you can deal with.
00:03:15
Speaker
And go from there. To push back on that a little bit, I will say... part of the reason why we want to have that freedom is because we are taking on so much responsibility on the, on film roles that we just don't have them.
00:03:35
Speaker
I don't, I personally don't have the micromanagement aspect where I'm like, okay, they need a red coat with a blue hat and a white shirt that looks like this. It's like, I'm not even thinking about that. I'm just like,
00:03:50
Speaker
I'm trying to think how the actor is going to use the characterization and we're going to frame it and how we're going to get the coverage. and The bigger picture, yeah And how we can utilize the sets that we have to tell the story. And are we going to move the camera? Are we not going to move the camera? Do we need to have dramatic lighting, not dramatic lighting? Do we need to set...
00:04:12
Speaker
wild we need to record wild audio do right and then all like the thing is is like there's so many baskets on filmmaking that we just don't you don't really think about well you can't i mean a lot of people just think it's you get a fancy camera with lenses and you point it at somebody and that's like the bare minimum and that's like nothing Yeah.
00:04:37
Speaker
That's really nothing. um There's so much more to it. There's so much more to just framing, setting, wardrobe. You know what that makes me think of is the Ricoh commercial we shot.
Importance of sound and safety in filmmaking
00:04:49
Speaker
Yeah. Because we had the camera.
00:04:53
Speaker
And if you watch that short, it's basically Tom pulling out a gun, dancing around, and then pulling out a body. And we we did that beautifully.
00:05:05
Speaker
you know We did it as good as we can. But there's so much more to it than that. There's the sound. And when you incorporate that, well, it's completely different.
00:05:20
Speaker
Yes. Yes. And in Dickhead, um
00:05:28
Speaker
sound is going to save us. And going in, to be fair, we knew sound was going to save us. Yeah, we knew we had to lean on that.
00:05:38
Speaker
But we had you know you you have to lean on it because if the sound's not there, i mean you you tune out, right? Well, we knew we couldn't film... everything adequately yeah and within reason.
00:05:54
Speaker
So we just decided that we would cut away, cleverly use angles and setting to tell the story.
00:06:05
Speaker
So like a scene where Jennifer gets pulled into the bedroom, you never see what happens in that bedroom. Everything that happens in there is going to be told to you through sound. Yeah. It's a struggle.
00:06:17
Speaker
They fight. Guess what? We had no stunt coordinator. We had no idea of stunts. We were already... Oh, you mean in her bedroom? In her bedroom. We were already pushing it as it was with the minimal action that we show on screen.
00:06:32
Speaker
I mean, we literally got our actor hurt. We literally got an actor hurt because of that. like Yes. And then when you see it, you're like, oh, well, he didn't get hit. And he's like, dude, I got hit pretty hard with that elbow. I'm a little bit cussed.
00:06:46
Speaker
Yes. And... It was like... But on video, that doesn't read at all. Right? It's just like a little like pat on the cheek and then the scene moves on. But during filming... was a hard elbow to the chin. It was a hard elbow to the chin and he was like, oh, I need i need a minute.
00:07:06
Speaker
Yeah. And we stopped filming and it was a real realization where we're doing dangerous things. um Yeah. Yeah. And you got to think about that too when you're filming with your smaller productions. How many dangerous things are you doing?
00:07:23
Speaker
Because you want to minimize them. I mean, you don't want to put your actors in situations where they are – if you want an action flick as a short, well, then you need to cast action people who can do these stunts. Because if they can't, you're putting a lot of people at danger in – You know, when you're the director, who does it fall on?
00:07:46
Speaker
You. It's the director. The director and the producer. Yeah. And when, you know, that's one and the same when it comes to you and i And the biggest thing... is yes, there's an ignorance um that we you know employ because we don't know what we're necessarily getting into. But safety was always something that we were very paramount about.
00:08:09
Speaker
Even when we're getting like risky camera angles where it's the bird's eye you're standing on a ladder holding the camera over someone's head. And it's like, if I drop this camera, it's going smash on your face. yeah Or if the lens attaches or if the hood on the... um The lens. The lens just drops onto the actor's face. like That could ruin the whole film because you could just damage your actor's face and they're not going to come back. like That's dangerous. You have to be careful.
00:08:41
Speaker
um It's very important to keep that in mind. and And we kind of shot around that in a sense where we We knew our limitations and i wanted to say that we accounted for them as best we could.
00:09:00
Speaker
ah Dickhead is not an action-filled film. Yeah. It is not a gory-filled film. Yeah. um When it comes to special effects, when it comes to stunts, we're very minimal.
00:09:14
Speaker
We relied heavily on what Marianne could pull off, what she was comfortable pulling off, And that's it. Yeah. um No other actors other than Marianne really have stunts.
00:09:26
Speaker
and then we And then we got to rely on the sound to deliver all of the intensity of of that. Exactly. And that's where, so when we were talking with Adam and Pat earlier, we talk about Well, yeah
Sound team communication gaps
00:09:40
Speaker
they talk about... Tell us about Adam and Pat and where we were with them because... So we had a been a we had ah a bit of a scare. We were a little bit of afraid.
00:09:50
Speaker
yeah had a little scare when it came to... Shit, he's pouring the whiskey. He's pouring the Elijah Craig, so you know we were scared. We had a little... Oh, thank you, buddy. How did you know?
00:10:06
Speaker
son of bitch. This why I love Tom. So...
00:10:11
Speaker
We hadn't really met with Adam and Pat. and And they were talking to me about the last time when i before my child was born. So that was like over five months ago.
00:10:23
Speaker
It's been at least five months, if not longer. Minimum five months. Minimum. When we haven't met in person. It's been just texting back and forth. They've been sending us a few tracks here and there. And it was just more like they tried to get everything done and then send it to us.
00:10:40
Speaker
And They were operating under impressions that like we had okayed things. Yeah. While we didn't necessarily ah approve anything, we weren't very upfront and forward about yeah saying no. And that was our biggest issue was the lack of communication and just saying no.
00:11:01
Speaker
Yes. You got to say no when you don't like it. Which kind of also worked out in a way, and I'll get to that. So it's been a while. You know, I think John went on a holiday. Motherfucker is always on vacation. Fucking Europeans, dude. I gotta to get his.
Collaboration with VFX artist and audio mix feedback
00:11:18
Speaker
I gotta get on his plan, dude. Europeans. Like, I think he, remember he was on vacation for like a month and they were like, ah for a month we're gonna work on the film while he's gone. Yeah. And we'll get the Foley done.
00:11:29
Speaker
So Adam and Pat were working on the Foley. And Steve and I just, we were working with Jorge on VFX. Yeah. And just figuring out the workflow, getting the footage, um getting the correct rendered footage in the correct format, uploading it, getting it sent to Jorge to download and then work on.
00:11:53
Speaker
And that's kind of been going back and forth on if it's working. And then we've just it's been ah struggle under getting through VFX. it it's it's ah It's scary at the moment.
00:12:11
Speaker
But all the while, it's just like, well, Adam and Pat are great. adam like John's there, but like John is such in the periphery. like we don't really We haven't really met with John that much.
00:12:22
Speaker
He just kind of responds to the messages on our on our ah our group text. And... Like John's a busy dude. He's like the professional of the bunch in a sense.
00:12:35
Speaker
um Not that Adam and Pat aren't professional. It's just John has that like I've been trained class. I'm like I'm classically trained Shakespearean actor.
00:12:46
Speaker
I'm a classically trained audio mixer man. um
00:12:53
Speaker
So to call a long story short, we had we had just had it met in a while. And they sent over a mix. They sent over a mix like, i want to say like two weeks ago.
00:13:07
Speaker
And we listened to the mix. And it was kind of like, see I know Steve and I were were just kind of like, oh boy. Yeah. Oh boy. It wasn't hitting all the notes we wanted to. We're in trouble because it was like, and but i've also at the same time, it was like, we're in trouble because
00:13:29
Speaker
But there were some exciting things going on. Yeah. So hear this we hear the movie. We're watching it. or We watched the mix that was sent over.
00:13:42
Speaker
And this is where we can get into like, well, the Foley is just like not there. Yeah. Timing was off or weird and we don't understand what's really going on. Like, where are you guys? You're done with the Foley? You guys kind of were saying that you were done with the Foley, but there's like no Foley here. What are you talking about? Like, yeah you're not done. There's no way you you can say you're done.
00:14:06
Speaker
Holy shit. This can't be it. Like, no, please. You're, you're, you're fucking with me. Right. So, so the, and this is the conversation Steve and I are having and, Then we're you know there's some stuff with the score and we're like, oh no, this song that we weren't sure about is still in the movie.
00:14:28
Speaker
And i felt like we were so apprehensive about it, so apprehensive about hurt feelings and such that we just didn't flat out say, no, not this track.
00:14:40
Speaker
And so that so those tracks kind of remained. And also there was just misunderstandings and miscommunications about how scenes were supposed to play out and be laid out.
00:14:50
Speaker
Just generally a lot of miscommunication and a lot of just non-communication altogether. Yeah. And that really kind of stemmed from just a kind of like, there was like a, there's been a problem with Dickhead in that once we kind of got picture lock,
00:15:12
Speaker
this like apathy set in, especially with how our previous meetings with Adam and Pat have went, where it's like, they got it. Yeah. hold on, hold on. Let me get to that.
00:15:24
Speaker
So, like I said, lack of communication, slash no communication, no meetings, just a couple quick dialogues over chat, over Discord, that led to a situation where We weren't really sure where they were at and they weren't really sure how we felt about things.
00:15:44
Speaker
And so they sent this mix over and it's like, okay, Foley's like just missing music. There's like music in places that there shouldn't be music in at all. It's not bad music. It's just like, we don't want music here.
00:15:58
Speaker
It's, it's nice, but music and film, especially horror it's It's tough because you write a really fine line. So we always harp on showing and not telling.
00:16:14
Speaker
And the aspect of showing and not telling is at least i don't I don't want to speak for both of us, but I will in this case in saying you never want to tell.
00:16:25
Speaker
You want to show. And music and score can be very telling. It can tell you when to be scared. It can tell you when to be sad. It can tell you when to be happy. It can tell you your emotion on the scene, which sometimes is good because it amplifies the scene yeah through the showing.
00:16:45
Speaker
And that's when it's probably used the best.
00:16:50
Speaker
But there was a lot of this like... okay, we don't need music here. Like, let's just lean in on the ambience. Let's let the actors deliver.
00:17:02
Speaker
Let's let the actors show us what they're feeling. Let's let the actors have their moment. So it was like, okay, you added a lot of music that didn't necessarily need to be there.
00:17:15
Speaker
No big deal, right? We just cut it out. So...
00:17:21
Speaker
Kind like, hey, just you know send us the notes on you know this cut. we'll you know We'll see where we're at. So, i ah Steve and I, had we had planned to meet. Plans just keep felling falling through. It's like, I've just been fucking exhausted on the weekends.
00:17:36
Speaker
And then it was like, we were just trying to plan. And it was like we it was more like we were just trying to like squeeze in between things. And it was like, and that made it difficult because it's like, well, I'm doing this and then we can squeeze this in and then we can, you know, and then I got to do this.
00:17:56
Speaker
And it's like, and there was also a time where I was like, fuck, like we can't let, we can't like get, we were getting, we we were letting like, how do I put this?
00:18:08
Speaker
Dickhead was kind of getting in the way. Of our lives? Of our lives. which Yeah. Which is fair because our lives are very busy.
00:18:20
Speaker
And for a while, at least like maybe like half a year, maybe i don't, I can't remember the exact date we picture locked. I want to say it was summer of last year, maybe a little after that, um that we like fully picture locked. And then we did the reframing pass.
00:18:41
Speaker
So it's been at least five-ish months that we haven't had to do any hands-on work on DigEd. We figured out we're going to go two by one.
00:18:51
Speaker
we did reframing. um We kind of were going through and doing... We finished most of the ah ah shot listing paperwork.
Progress on film paperwork and collaboration
00:19:02
Speaker
I don't know if that's completed entirely, but I think it's mostly done.
00:19:07
Speaker
um it's It's halfway done. It's definitely pretty much done. um
00:19:17
Speaker
And so it was like we it was kind of like it was becoming like a. Less of a priority. It was kind of falling to the side.
00:19:28
Speaker
Like actually needing to be on like hands on working, focusing on it every day. And so we, I mean, you know, no excuses, but we let a lot of stuff slide. Like we haven't been pushing Jorge on VFX.
00:19:46
Speaker
We hadn't really been checking in with Adam and Pat. We were just trusting them. Like, it's like, we're paying these people to do a job. And with Adam and Pat, it's so much more than, than just paying them.
00:19:59
Speaker
It really, like, they really feel like they're part of the family. Yeah. um And I'm in Pat, like feel like they're like, and it's like, they want, they were as like, they made us just as excited about the movie as we were when we were working on it in editing.
00:20:18
Speaker
And when we working on the film in general, and it's like, wow. they And I always, I've said this and i've I'll say it again. it really kind of spoiled us. Oh yeah. To what we can expect from,
00:20:32
Speaker
in this field of post-production, freelance post-production work. Because really what we're doing is just posting out a call to the masses.
00:20:44
Speaker
Hey, we have money. Not a lot, but we have money. Help us. Yeah. And that brought in a lot of people. Yeah. um We probably have an episode about this a little bit, I think.
00:21:01
Speaker
um But yeah, I remember just waking it when I posted that VFX thing, just waking up and having like 45 VFX people messaging me. Probably 50% scammy, obvious kind of emails like, pay me now and I'll do all your VFX type of thing. And it's like, okay. Really? Yeah.
00:21:21
Speaker
At least 45 messages. And then we kind of were just whittling it down and whittling it down. And same thing with audio. We went through a lot of people. There were a lot of people just just messaging and talking to. And I remember the initial ah
00:21:39
Speaker
message was kind of like just for the composing. And then Adam came in and was like, no, we'll do it all. Yeah. He just showed up out of nowhere, right? Out of the blue.
00:21:51
Speaker
And I remember because we were talking, we talked about something else entirely different than the film. We talked about another movie. and we were just And we just kind of hit it off and it was like, okay, there's there is a lot to say when it's fun to talk to somebody.
00:22:06
Speaker
It makes working with them, it changes. But to come back to the present, right, we hadn't really been talking. Everyone's been busy. They've been busy with their lives. We've been busy with our lives. I mean, Stephen practically has, you know, he's Irish twins.
00:22:22
Speaker
Yeah. ah So, you know, he's got two babies in diapers, which is... you know That's a struggle. ah but you know I wouldn't wish on my greatest enemy. Well, maybe I would.
00:22:34
Speaker
Fuck my greatest enemy. Fuck that person. I'm not sure who my greatest enemy is, but it's probably one of our editors.
00:22:42
Speaker
ah So you haven't met with we haven't met with them for a while. And then we get this mix kind of out of the blue. And to say the least, the mix was underwhelming.
00:22:55
Speaker
yeah um but for i So we wrote up notes. I think I finally made it back to where I was like 20 minutes ago. Steven wrote up notes.
00:23:07
Speaker
I wrote up notes. Generally, we would meet and then like go over each of our notes and combine them into one document so that it's a little more concise and we would get our point to like argue against things because like we have ideas, different ideas, different tastes, and...
00:23:25
Speaker
Generally, we make the best idea when we then compromise or come together. It's just whoever can ah philosophically outbattle that one another. And then it's the battle the wits to a degree where it's yeah a situation where you go well, you understand if we add this kind of music or this kind of fully here...
00:23:50
Speaker
that the character is embodied through the sound and you are experiencing this. And if you, you know, you're telling too much of the scene because we need a slower buildup of the music because it's just too fast on the draw. And then the audience is now expecting too much and then it cuts to nothing. And right.
00:24:12
Speaker
We'll argue about this forever. well yeah Well, this could be something that we just go on and on and on about. Which is fine when were we have no deadline and we're working on ourselves with editing. it just yeah we i mean there's probably like We can go so philosophically deep on Dickhead that you can listen to probably 100 hours of this podcast on the unseen maybe ah layers of Dickhead that are just in our discussion and our notes.
00:24:45
Speaker
I don't know. So to cut back to the present again, we, I was, I was getting worried that like we weren't, we hadn't met, we weren't really meeting and it had been a week, maybe two weeks since they had sent the notes and our sensei sent some, the mix and we hadn't said anything really.
00:25:08
Speaker
And I was like, shit, we need to do something. Like we need to like make sure that they know that we are working on it. So was like, I'm just going to send my notes and
00:25:18
Speaker
And then I send my notes and I'm like, shit, my notes were pretty vague because it felt the past felt so rough. It felt like it wasn't worthy of like breaking it down.
00:25:30
Speaker
To me, that's how i felt. While like, why would I time code this when it's like it's ah half the foley seems like it's missing. I don't want to go through this amount of detail when it's just like, no, you need to finish the foley.
00:25:45
Speaker
And then Steven did his notes and he went very extensive and he went ah time code time coded and he went through every little aspect in detail.
00:25:57
Speaker
And then I was reading his notes and I was like, okay, we we pretty much agree. but And he went in in better depth, but I kind of already fucked up and sent my notes. So, well you know, like, why don't you just send yours and then we'll see what happens. And then we got a message back from Adam and Pat where it was like,
00:26:16
Speaker
this This aggression or maybe not aggression, but it was like...
00:26:26
Speaker
What's like a good way to word it? It was just we weren't expecting the reaction that we got because we weren't aware of the situation we were in. we were We weren't really prepared for them to say like, no, we've done a lot of work on this, you guys.
00:26:40
Speaker
We don't... see what you're seeing yeah and i remember reading those notes and thinking just like fuck we're fucked like it's over like they don't want to work with us they think we're crazy they think we want to redo the whole score they think we want to do this and i was just like but no one's actually talking we haven't talked none of us have actually like just actually talked And it's like, you can't do that. And it's a thing that I i think I've now, it's i kept thinking,
00:27:18
Speaker
Fuck, we learn the lessons the hardest way sometimes, especially making this goddamn movie. it's like It's been the hardest film school ever, in a sense, because every step of the way, we've just met like a roadblock where it's like, of course we should have been meeting more.
Communication breakdowns in sound production
00:27:35
Speaker
Yeah.
00:27:36
Speaker
We should have had like at least once a month, if not every other week, we should have been meeting with them. Yeah. like It's kind of unacceptable, really.
00:27:47
Speaker
We would have been, we probably would have worked through all of this and been done weeks ago if we had just had a call. You think so? That quick? Yes.
00:27:58
Speaker
Because it would have been like, hey, all of our issues and all the things that we want addressed, we they would have been addressed. There was just no communication. There was just no, they were just going off of what you know they had been working on.
00:28:15
Speaker
And what they thought we had liked. And it was just, you know, there was that disconnect. Oh, fuck. Every time I say like, I'm going to drink and then I'm going to die. Oh, then you're going to die, dude.
00:28:26
Speaker
You say like a lot. I was constantly trying not to. And I think I've done somewhat okay. I've been ah kind of counting it in my head every time I say it.
00:28:40
Speaker
There are some times when it's okay. But I'm trying not to.
00:28:45
Speaker
To get back to the story, so that happened on Tuesday of this week. It's Friday today. So this happened on Tuesday night. We got the notes back from Pat and Adam.
00:28:57
Speaker
And I remember I was sitting like sitting outside watching the kids jump on the trampoline and ah got saw the Discord message and I opened the notes and I read them.
00:29:09
Speaker
Yeah. And it was like- Well, how did that make you feel when you first read them? It was like a-
00:29:16
Speaker
immediate, almost instant panic attack. Really? i just remember thinking, oh God, I fucked this all up. Yeah. Because I felt like this responsibility, because I have been the contact I've been chatting with.
00:29:30
Speaker
I've been the one talking with Adam. I've been the one talking. I've been pretty much the one trying to always check on the discord. If there's been a message, I respond to it. And I was like, fuck, I fucked. I failed Steven.
00:29:42
Speaker
ah failed them. failed everybody. How the fuck did I let this get away from me so bad? I don't understand what I didn't do. Because I remember I told I had talked to you about I was like, I think something weird is going on.
00:29:57
Speaker
Like, I think they believe i think they think we're done. Yeah. Or like, I think they think we're okay with all the music. And and we are okay with a lot of the music. Yeah. It's not a lot of the music is problem. There's like three major tracks that we have issues with.
00:30:10
Speaker
Jennifer's theme walking, her Jennifer's introduction, which is her. Yeah, Jennifer. Tom looking at Jennifer. The garage massacre. And Jennifer, like pretty much Jennifer's music.
00:30:24
Speaker
Although Jennifer in in the house, I like. Like that kind of score that they have of her when she's sitting there and she's like, what's with all the creeps today? Oh yeah. I love that.
00:30:35
Speaker
Yeah. I like that. And I'm like, fuck. yeah And then Jennifer walking down the street. I don't hate that. It's just, and I'd see when I will talk about this for probably forever. And this will be a great lesson to all future filmmakers out there on the, uh,
00:30:56
Speaker
The Devil's Temptation of Temp Music. Oh, yeah. And the thing is, fuck, we tied Rosemary's Baby to Jennifer so hard that it is, for for me personally, it is it is almost impossible to to not hear. To break away from that. To not hear it.
00:31:19
Speaker
Every time I see her walking down that street with that like dreamy atmosphere, she's there's trick-or-treaters in the background, and she looks and she turns and she sees Tom.
00:31:32
Speaker
And even though you're like, well, she shouldn't be afraid of Tom, but it's like internally she knows something's wrong. Yeah. That's how I always felt is like that scene is her, like he just, once she turns and sees him, he stops walking.
00:31:46
Speaker
And she knows that something is wrong with him. It's like, yes, there isn't any logical reason she should be afraid of him, but something in her gut is telling her to be afraid.
00:31:57
Speaker
Yeah. because Because her noticing him pause makes him stop. And weird shit has been happening, right? She's been, there's this thing going on in the bathroom.
00:32:11
Speaker
His presence is, may it's not necessarily there, but it's, it's for the, it's like the audience knows something's wrong. And she is the representation of the audience for the film.
00:32:27
Speaker
So even though and might not make a complete logical sense that she should be afraid of Tom, there's just in her gut feeling she knows something's wrong with him. Yeah. So that scene, she's walking from school after whatever weirdness happens in the bathroom. And I feel like a lot of people might say, oh why does she not stop running? she just you know Why is she just walking and chilled out?
00:32:52
Speaker
Well, it's because it's like, Day to day, this is like a fear of women in general is that they just have these weird, strange interactions where they have to be on guard and they just have gross interactions with men possibly. And yeah it's just a part of their our life. and And that's the unfortunate nature of our society. And just trying to capture that in this film, right? Yeah.
00:33:19
Speaker
that's That's all we were trying to do. and And we have, and we really built this around Rosemary's Baby.
Adapting to original music and managing expectations
00:33:30
Speaker
The theme song, the ah so there's a couple themes for Rosemary in in the film, the Roman Polanski film.
00:33:39
Speaker
And we we leaned in so fucking hard on it. And we edited to it. And it worked. It was working so good. Everything just worked like with that. with and When we go, when we take the instrumental version, when we do the lullaby version of the song, when we do everything, it's just like, this is it.
00:34:01
Speaker
This is what we wanted. yeah it was like destiny. It was destiny. and And I know for me, whenever I see those scenes, I think of that music.
00:34:13
Speaker
And Adam and Pat have taken those And done something different. And the thing is, what they've done isn't bad. It's just different.
00:34:24
Speaker
Yeah. And it's it's tough because I don't... Because I'm not... Because for me, I'm looking to you to say, well, does he hate this?
00:34:36
Speaker
I don't know if I hate it. I don't think I hate it Yeah. It's not what we wanted. Yeah. But can we ever get what we wanted? Did what we want isn't real? Like it's just a rip off.
00:34:54
Speaker
ah And what we have now is something new and not necessarily bad. And I just, and it was such, it's such a bizarre feeling.
00:35:06
Speaker
So there's that. And so those, that there are those, those, those three tracks that, um that are like I said but the music isn't bad the only really bad track is that garage murder and that's where I'm like oh gosh you got it and I know i I even like was like cutting back on it when you were meeting earlier where I'm like it's just too different but it's like no it's just not good yeah like It's not a bad song, but I can't hear it and not hear Psycho, which is bad for in my mind.
00:35:47
Speaker
it's We're already going to have to deal with the Halloween ripoff comparisons and the unintentional connection with Halloween ends on how Michael is...
00:36:04
Speaker
isn't It's not necessarily Michael Myers, but the energy that people put into the hate and fear of Michael Myers, which is like, whoops. We had that idea before you guys, which people kind of hated, so I don't know. well But we're not... People hated the Michael Myers aspect?
00:36:25
Speaker
People hat hated that that character but being the killer. The babysitter guy? yeah And I was like, but that's like genius.
00:36:38
Speaker
But I'm like, is it genius because we wrote it first? but Yeah. I don't know. All saying is we and the more and more i think about stuff, it's like we're pretty smart when it comes to the stuff.
00:36:54
Speaker
And we edited the film well to at least get through everything. Yeah. Yeah. yeah Because, boy, there's a two and a half hour version of this movie that you would never want to watch. That's all I'm saying. yeah That would explain everything to a T that we're trying to explain quicker.
00:37:18
Speaker
Yeah, I would say ultimately with sound and post, it's just taught me to be a lot more clear and concise to what I want to say. you know Because there were some songs where...
00:37:33
Speaker
We were just dancing around it instead of saying, like no, it's not working. And I think at our level, one of the biggest issues is just like letting people have free reign.
00:37:45
Speaker
Because I think at our level, we got to give people parameters to work with it. I don't even think it's a our level thing. I think it's just a... Well, I wouldn't know. filmmaker thing.
00:37:58
Speaker
All I know is our level. And every time in our level, we're like, yeah, man, do your own thing. You know, have fun, explore, experiment. No one does that. You know, and they and then afterwards when they deliver, it's like, I don't know. And then there's a conflict where they give us something we are not necessarily excited about.
00:38:19
Speaker
I will say... That's mostly true. There have been some exciting things that Adam and Pat have done with the score. Oh, yeah. No, I'm not talking about them necessarily. I'm just talking about like all of the entirety of phil of making this. like Yes. Right? Every time you've been like, hey, you know what?
00:38:40
Speaker
This is what we think, but explore what you want. I will say... To your point, the biggest disappointment in just the whole process of filmmaking is how little other people have excited me. and Well, by excited, do you mean you want them to have the same enthusiasm as you about this project? No.
00:39:07
Speaker
What I mean is... Perfect Perfect good example. We wanted a ah bong kill scene. We wanted this glass bong to crack over the head of ah Toasty, played by Gianluca Malacrino.
00:39:29
Speaker
And...
Production compromises and character portrayal
00:39:32
Speaker
We were just like, kind of like, hey, someone will make us like I remember asking, OK, you'll make us a glass bong, Alec. Someone will make us a glass bong, right?
00:39:42
Speaker
Or a sugar molded bong or something we can smash over this fucker's head. Yeah. And then months and months and months go by and we're filming and we finally get to the scene we're going to, you know, we got Gianluca. got him. from Guess what?
00:40:02
Speaker
No bong. ah So what do you mean no bong? Yeah, it ain't going to work. We couldn't get it to work.
00:40:11
Speaker
Okay. What do we got? That was one of the toughest pills to swallow because it wasn't an issue until it was. It was, like I said, it was just like...
00:40:24
Speaker
like Why couldn't... like I guess, you know, at the end of the day, I hold myself responsible because all of these special effects things should have been tested and thought out. What were the directors? Yes. And producers and everything.
00:40:37
Speaker
Yeah. Big. Yeah. And I just remember thinking like, oh boy. So we had to completely change the story. Yeah.
00:40:50
Speaker
Because of this. So we had to, on the fly, ordered a stupid prop hammer. we got the prop hammer in. It's like, I didn't want to use a hammer.
00:41:01
Speaker
hated the idea. Really? Completely conflicatory to what we had written in the script. The idea was that he was going to kill this guy with his bong and then he was going to kill the other guys.
00:41:14
Speaker
Everyone else was supposed to die kind of in the way that they were representative in the yeah discussion. Yeah. Right? She was supposed to be calling on the phone and he she's on the phone with the police and then the bowling ball hits her while she's on the phone.
00:41:28
Speaker
That never happened. you know like it's and I kind of forgot all of this. yeah this was every This was all planned. And it all got ruined. Right? Everyone had planned... like They were like, if I was in a horror movie, I would have done X, y or z yeah And they were all going to die in the way they were supposed they supposedly thought they could get out of it.
00:41:49
Speaker
Yeah. It's like, you know, you fight back, and he was supposed to just like beat him to death. And like not with a hammer or anything. It was just supposed to be this violent, crushing his skull, like...
00:42:01
Speaker
Kind of thing with his boot. kind of Because the whole idea was like Tom wasn't this like violent guy. he just didn we didn't want people getting in his way. Yeah.
00:42:13
Speaker
And yeah, and like ah Toasty and Richard were supposed to have this scene that we never got to film in the garage that was the support that would also further establish those characters. And right, like none of that ever got filmed. Like all these like little things.
00:42:29
Speaker
I mean, maybe we would have ended up cutting it anyway. I don't know. if we would got to shoot every scene that we wanted, it would have been a different movie for sure. Oh yeah.
00:42:40
Speaker
Um, like I always think like scene five is such a different scene. Uh, when like was thinking about this the other day, sorry, this is a tangent I want to go off on.
00:42:52
Speaker
I think of because I think about Dickhead a lot, right? It's pretty much been part of life for a decade, almost maybe longer. Yeah. Uh, And there was this idea. So Jennifer, I think in the current edit of the film is a lot more innocent of a portrayal than she was supposed to be.
00:43:12
Speaker
Because there was also this idea that she was also kind of with Toasty on the side. There's ah and there was a Jennifer in the script because I reread it recently in relation to all of this.
00:43:23
Speaker
And it's just like she's just such a different character than that we captured before. It's not even the same. Right. It's not even. Not to say there's.
00:43:35
Speaker
Better or worse. Yeah. What we wrote was better though. Yeah. Come on, dude. I was thinking about this so much. was like, fuck. What we captured it with is more of this innocent, less realized version of the character because this she was supposed to have this like weird ah relationship with Toasty and i was going to that was supposed to be explored a lot more, but it just never happened yeah because of Gianluca's availability. Yeah. And I'm like, maybe this stuff is for the best, but I'm like, no, we like we wanted her...
00:44:11
Speaker
We wanted this playful Lolita. Yeah. And not that she's an underage Lolita, but in the sense that like... She's a sexual being. she's this Yeah, exactly. She uses her she uses her sexual sexuality as a weapon against men.
00:44:32
Speaker
Yeah. And that comes back to bite her in the ass. Yeah. Because, and then like maybe like what we have now is like a slightly more matured man-hatery, the anti-misogynistic version.
00:44:49
Speaker
No, I don't think so. Because it's like- For Jennifer? No, for the story in general. I don't think so. Because- I think we know how men are. Yes.
00:45:01
Speaker
And we try to capture that as much as possible. Maybe the men were a little more forgiving with the the original idea of Jennifer.
00:45:13
Speaker
I don't know. Because the original idea of Jennifer is like she plays with danger. She's literally Laura Palmer from Twin Peaks.
00:45:26
Speaker
Like, fuck, oops. Yeah, right? Right? She's like this bright, sunny girl with a dark sexual side. Yeah. And it gets her killed.
00:45:38
Speaker
Whoops. I mean, we her dad didn't murder her, but... Yeah. ah Yeah. I mean, it's... it the the The kind of like the sweet thing is like we still ended up with some coherence.
00:45:54
Speaker
but Wait, wait, wait. We're talking about sound.
Film genre alignment and character analysis
00:45:56
Speaker
but what Jesus. Let me ask you about sound because we did end up with the coherence on the giallo and they had no idea of giallo music. So...
00:46:05
Speaker
Which I will Do attribute that to anything or just coincidence? It has to be coincidence since they have no idea. But I mean, like, can we have lead on that path?
00:46:19
Speaker
The thing is, and I think this is kind of like a... one of those beautiful, happy accidents. um I will say circa 2015 when we probably had started writing...
00:46:35
Speaker
Yeah. Dickhead. And then 2016 when we filmed, I had probably never seen a Giallo film outside of Suspiria. And I really had, i if you would have said Giallo, I would have said, is that some kind of ice cream? Like gelato?
00:46:56
Speaker
Yeah. I didn't know what a Giallo was then. i had never. Yeah, not back then. Delved into it. I think of... so It's so interesting to think of... I loved movies back then.
00:47:11
Speaker
I mean, I'd seen Moon. I'd seen 2001 A Space Odyssey. I'd seen Blade Runner. I'd seen Terminator. I'd seen Platoon. I'd seen Casablanca. But no GLOs.
00:47:24
Speaker
I had... I'd never delved into horror like that. I'd never... had a film knowledge or history. i had never seen anything like The Red Shoes. I'd never seen anything like Live Ventura. I'd never seen anything like I'd seen Before Sunrise, but I'd never appreciated it.
00:47:46
Speaker
Yeah. I'd seen films like Days in Confused that I never appreciated. i and ah if you In 2014, the year before we even decided we were going to do this, if you had said, Tom, what's your favorite movie? i probably would have said Pulp Fiction and Clerks.
00:48:05
Speaker
Really? not that those are bad movies, but... holy shit like it's so crazy how much my world has expanded my understanding has expanded like i've probably seen 30 giallo movies now i understand the genre a lot better i understand what it means to be giallo i understand mario bava and lamberto bava well i'll say when you first talked about the giallos you were like the gallows yeah yeah But I will say also one of the things with sound that you are the most excited about was when I was like, well, maybe we're making an American giallo.
00:48:44
Speaker
Yeah. And that kind of sold you on because everything with sound. Because there really aren't that many American giallos that are considered American giallos. And we had then kind of accidentally made one. um We have the black gloved killer that...
00:49:00
Speaker
is like a sexual sadist murderer. And we have the person running and a hiding from him trying to figure out what's going on. Who is also, I mean, the thing is like our movie takes place in one night, which isn't very giallo-esque because it's more of like an investigation. It's more of like a noir slasher, I would say is what a giallo kind of is.
00:49:23
Speaker
like your Tenebras and any Italian film that stars um John Saxon. But what we did it was like, okay, we have...
00:49:37
Speaker
Two men that wear mechanic coveralls. One wears black gloves. One doesn't wear black gloves. There's this weird juxtaposition between but who they are and we don't ever... really like Our killer is very sexually driven. He's...
00:49:57
Speaker
uh, uh, maniac in the sense that he's perverse and corrupt. But then our other killer is also of his violence. He's, he's violence.
00:50:10
Speaker
He's just the aspect of, of violence and hatred and, uh, love pushed to a point of absolute corruption. And it's like, shit, that's kind of like an American job. That's kind of like Alice.
00:50:26
Speaker
Uh, That Alice Kill Alice or Alice Sweet Alice, not Alice Kill Alice. Alice Sweet Alice. That's the American Jello Dressed to Kill, Eyes of Laura Mars.
00:50:38
Speaker
It's right. this ah It's like ah Miss 45. Like these ideas of these American Jello films. It's like. we were We didn't know what the fuck that was. Yeah.
00:50:50
Speaker
Adam and Pat don't know what that is. and it's like, fuck, it's kind of working out. It's like a divine intervention of some sort.
00:51:00
Speaker
Yeah. and And fuck, I just hope that people that are watching the movie to accept us into a festival or to give us like 10 bucks would be like, hey, i see what you guys did here. I appreciate it. Yeah.
00:51:17
Speaker
Because, I mean, we just we've just worked every angle.
00:51:24
Speaker
And we've ah this podcast and this discovery of film and this prospect of just going through film history and just delving... like subtitled films I mean I kind of avoided them i always preferred the dub version of a Godzilla movie really Godzilla movies if I'm watching Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla I want that cheesy dub that's what I grew up on that's what it was on Spike TV that was that was TNT that's what I watched Ebra you know vs. Godzilla the the lobster we took edibles bro yeah we did
00:52:10
Speaker
But yeah, I mean, to get back on to actual topic about the post sound and it was scary. It was scary in that for a moment, like, well, I'll say, you know, what with post, we ran into so many issues, like you said, and was scary in the fact that with the people we found for sound were just so we We put a lot of ourselves there.
00:52:41
Speaker
And that's scary because when it they don't deliver. and then there's the possibility of things going south. Like it's really scary.
00:52:54
Speaker
and But ultimately, that's a lack of lack on us. Yeah, it is. no We have no one to blame. like
00:53:02
Speaker
We got to get to certain... points that we get to where we're in post and we need to have more meetings and just discuss more and and better communication, literally just better communication.
00:53:15
Speaker
And we need to do that, but we don't because we've been working on this so long. We just kind of want to tune out, but if this is your film, you can't, you got to be there every step of the way. And as soon as you tune out, you're going to lose something.
00:53:32
Speaker
And we lost a lot. We lost a lot of time. Yeah. But the only thing. We talked about it just now. Just sorry to interrupt you. but But seriously, we just had talked about.
00:53:44
Speaker
If we had had. it this It is currently April 12th. If we had had this meeting on January 12th. We would be done with but sound.
00:53:57
Speaker
Yeah. We would have figured it all out. If we just had ah face-to-face call. Where we addressed everything that we had just talked about. We'd be done. Yeah.
00:54:08
Speaker
I remember last year I was- But we wouldn't be done, but we would just be on such a much better page, you know? We'd be done. be done. I mean, there's still some minor stuff to finish, figure out.
00:54:21
Speaker
You just said minor. It would have been four months of work. Well, that's to say we're on the front page of their work. We just put a hard deadline on June. No, we didn't. They're putting a hard deadline.
00:54:34
Speaker
But what I'm saying is like- I'm telling you. You know June ain't far. And in our respect, and then in other people's respect, you're going to do what you think is the best, and you're
Post-production diligence and setbacks
00:54:44
Speaker
going to figure it out. But once you get to post, it doesn't mean it's done. You've got to still stay vigilant, and you've still got to stay on top of people.
00:54:53
Speaker
And you're going to find everyone you can work with, and that's fine. you know Find them. That's awesome. But you've still got to stay on top of it. And you can't take that moment off to be like, okay, they got it.
00:55:05
Speaker
yeah You got to be on top of it because if they don't got it, you got to be there to course correct. And we didn't course correct enough because, again, our biggest issue is we tell people do what you want and that doesn't come through. Not to say that's this issue this time.
00:55:23
Speaker
But there's other times where they're asking like, well, do you want them in like, do you want a rubber band on their wrist? And it says, it's like, yeah, did you not read the script? It says they have to have a rubber band on their wrist. They're going to die from a rubber band on their wrist.
00:55:38
Speaker
And it was just such obvious things like, you know, in production and principal photography. I mean, there were some things we were very clear on in the script. And all you had to do was read the script and people didn't.
00:55:54
Speaker
And we always made those compromises. I don't think – outside of our actors, any single one of our crew read the whole script. Yeah, I don't think so either because it's like, well, did you see this? And we hid we highlighted stuff. we We made it as clear as possible. we did a script breakdown.
00:56:10
Speaker
did a breakdown. And we gave a script breakdown to every department. This is all you have to worry about is your color. If it is brown, it's props. If it's pink, it's location. think it was even more broken broken down than that where it was just pretty clear. Like, this is anything you see of this is you.
00:56:29
Speaker
And we broke it down that fine. And we were that meticulous at the start, but you know, principle went well because we handled it well.
00:56:41
Speaker
And then once we got to post, we slowed down, right? I mean, we, we finished all the principle and all of the hard stuff within like what, two years. Well, be from conception to an actual film that's done with principal photography. Oh, less than two years.
00:56:58
Speaker
Yeah, less than two years. And then the entire time has been spent on post within the edit. And i will say we got scammed in our edits at least once.
00:57:10
Speaker
I don't think the second person scammed us, but they it was just like, well, you're not going to deliver what we need. And we realized that right away. And then just we got to work.
00:57:21
Speaker
But then once we got to post with other people, it's like, yeah, we need to still be meticulous. And we we got to get back on that horse. Because we never left it. We just thought we did.
00:57:33
Speaker
You know? and And just seemed like, yeah, we got to get on it. And and it kind of took me to get to this place because you've been so on it.
00:57:45
Speaker
You know, you've really done a lot of posts. Like, for a while, i was like, yeah, I did all this shit. I got us to principle, you know, gotta brag about that. But then you showed up and and you've been fucking delivering like a fucking champion with just shit people need and like getting the files to them. Like, I commend you, buddy. You really stepped up to that and and you've gotten it done. Like, if people want more money, you're getting a fucking loan to get them more money.
00:58:13
Speaker
Like...
00:58:16
Speaker
I got to a place where I couldn't. And then you carried on. you're You're the Samwise, man. And I'm not Frodo. I'm fucking Smeagol, but you still think you're like, come on, Frodo. Yes, my precious. You are Frodo, buddy.
00:58:31
Speaker
You've carried the ring. Dude, you carried the ring, man. but but you really I will never be able to repay. It's not about repay. No, no, I know. but just We never would have got through principle if it was just me.
00:58:47
Speaker
And if it was just me, we wouldn't be here either because I've done a film on my own. That's not done. It's been like six years. And it's just like today, um for instance, we were get we met with our sound team and I thought we were going to do this all remotely.
00:59:04
Speaker
And then you're like, yeah, I'm coming over. I'm like, oh shit, you're coming over? Because my studio's in and a mess. I got a million close to fold. But then you're like, no, man, I can go back home. You want me to turn around? like, no, no, I don't want you to turn around. want you to be here, man.
00:59:19
Speaker
like yeah Like, you know, as a man, i don't want to admit to it, but like, I needed you, man. I fucking needed you because this was a scary moment. I thought it was going to go so much poorly.
00:59:32
Speaker
And thankfully, we do have a good sound team. I do believe in them. Oh, I was kind of thinking... Okay, I'll pay him out the rest of the money, and then we will find ah someone else to finish the score, and then we'll pay out our ass to get the mix done.
00:59:49
Speaker
Yeah. And that's where I kind of, i because that's where my brain went. My brain just went immediately, because that's- To the worst spot. that's It was the Sean scenario. And I know it's probably not great name it. It was bad editor scenario. I know it's not great to name, but- He fucked us hard. And it was like, I know it's it's it's not a good excuse, but I mean, not only did he cost us thousands of dollars, but he cost us years.
01:00:17
Speaker
Years, literally years. and so yeah And so, you know, we were going through this and I was like, fuck, man. Just, yeah, I need you here to to make it better. Because, I mean, I was panicking and it went well.
01:00:36
Speaker
It went better than I could have had hoped. Better than you could have imagined, you know? and Yes. and that's the thing and know And that's the thing with where you are are at within your film.
01:00:46
Speaker
Just don't get here. You need to have that clear communication. It wouldn't have been an issue. It wouldn't have been an fucking issue if we had just talked a little bit more. but There wouldn't have been, like, literally...
01:00:59
Speaker
There was a I was like, I fucking got I was like going to die. Like I was so fucking sick. I was like, this is it. The movie's over. We're going to just get their score. We're going to just hobble the film.
01:01:13
Speaker
We're just going to smash it in Maybe even Steven and I do the fucking fully. And then we hand it over to John and we finish paying him. And then we pay Adam and Pat and we use the score that we have theirs that we like. And that's it. We're done.
01:01:28
Speaker
We're done with sound. We're going to do a black and white cut because we can't get anything done from Hori. And we're just going to just pray to the gods that people will like the film. And it will stand on its writing and it will stand on its edit and it will stand on and on that. And I was just... and we and and it it is And I know it's an unfair reaction for the... The notes weren't that bad. Yeah.
01:01:55
Speaker
No. But I just had felt part of me was just like, well, the notes were bad if he didn't know better. It's also bad because we don't fucking meet. We don't talk with them.
01:02:07
Speaker
And if that's what it's like. and i And like I said, i don't put any blame on Adam or Pat. They've been fucking godsends. They've been miracles. I put the blame on myself and I felt like I had failed you and I had had failed them. Yeah.
01:02:23
Speaker
Because I was like, I was the point of contact. I've been working with Adam. I've been working with Pat. I've been working with John. I've been working. I've been talking to these people. I've been trying to make sure that you didn't have to worry about it and that I just needed your okays.
01:02:35
Speaker
And I was like, I was trying to get through all that. So where do you feel like, For our listeners like Steven, who's doing this by himself, where do you feel like they he could ah he could course correct to avoid this?
01:02:50
Speaker
what' What's the solution?
01:02:53
Speaker
What we had talked about tonight was the solution.
01:02:57
Speaker
We needed to establish, is there a deadline? Is there a point that you guys are going to be done? Okay. Because it's not infinite, right? Let's say it's this arbitrary, like that like adam like Pat said, she's going to be gone for a couple of months after June.
01:03:14
Speaker
That doesn't necessarily mean that they're done in June, but maybe we want to try to get them done before she leaves on this three-month excursion doing whatever. wanna to be Hunting wallabies. I don't know what they do in in Australia.
01:03:27
Speaker
um But, right, let's so let's say we have two months to kind of work through some of this stuff, or less than two months, six weeks.
01:03:38
Speaker
And but what you did was you kind of were like, hey, we need to establish ground rules. We need establish talking points. We need to do this. And it was like, yeah, oh, it's like a business.
01:03:50
Speaker
Yeah. Guess what? This is a business. We're paying these people. They have a job. so They have a worth. Guess what? It's not forever. They don't get to edit for nine years. Yeah.
01:04:03
Speaker
Editing for nine years is a privilege beyond belief. So, because you work in the private sector, is that more how it is in the business? In that world, like we're establishing this deadline. You got to meet it.
01:04:14
Speaker
And then if you don't- I actually have a real world experience with this. We had ah a job that just finished where we had built a rental car center. Part of that rental car center is it was connecting to the airport through a tram.
01:04:29
Speaker
The tram would let off people to rent a car center.
01:04:33
Speaker
Part of the contract said that that tram was supposed to be done. Are you supposed to say all this? Yes. Okay. I'm not saying any this. No one knows exactly what I'm talking about. part of Part of this deal, the tram was supposed to be done and operational before we had finished building this rental car center.
Appreciation for collaborators and budget considerations
01:04:52
Speaker
It wasn't. We charged them every single day. They weren't completed.
01:04:59
Speaker
And it was like... I don't know the exact number, but it's in the tens of thousands of dollars a day. We charge this company because they weren't completed with their tram.
01:05:10
Speaker
With their side of the deal. Yes. Wow. And it was like, hey, we rushed to complete the job within this time frame. We did. And we did. And where's your end of the deal?
01:05:23
Speaker
And so we just charged them every day until this tram was done. Like if it was being worked on? Yeah. Oh, shit. And we made millions of dollars off of this company because they couldn't finish.
01:05:36
Speaker
They were so behind. Okay. I know you can't say, but did they ever finish? They aren't done. With it. So you guys are still collecting. We still collect money from them.
01:05:47
Speaker
Damn it's good to work in private sector. All I'll say is it's an airport.
01:05:54
Speaker
One of the biggest airports ever. But we're he's not saying anything to anyone who really would probably care on this channel. Yeah. No. No. But yeah. I mean, and we charge them.
01:06:07
Speaker
every Every month, we charge them money until they're completed. Well, we would never do that. I wouldn't want to get to that point of like. No, no, no. but what um But maybe you do. Maybe you need to. But part of the thing is, and you brought this up, we're paying them.
01:06:26
Speaker
Adam and Pat, they are miracles. Yeah. John is a miracle. They are miracle workers because, and I'll be transparent, we're paying them $6,000.
01:06:39
Speaker
For something that should be like $36,000. Probably more than that. Probably more than that. It's probably like $10,000 per little thing. Like, oh, I'm going to just do Foley. That's probably $20,000. Oh, I'm just going to do Score. That's $20,000. If I had a budget. I'm going to mix. I'm going clean dialogue. It's like, oh, God. That's a lot. like If we made Dickhead let's just throw a random number, $500,000, I would gladly pay them $100,000.
01:07:08
Speaker
Oh, yeah. For what we for what we need. I don't have $100,000. I got $6,000. thousand dollars and And that's what I'm going to pay. But if I had, it like I said, I wasn't kidding when I said if Dickhead makes money, will gladly pay you guys a bonus.
01:07:24
Speaker
Because you, if Dickhead works, it's because of their work. yeah Yes, it's because of us. but And we will reap the benefits in that dickhead becoming something puts our name out there.
01:07:39
Speaker
It puts us as viable filmmakers. like we took Part of the reason we also haven't really pushed to like have outsiding funding or outsiding producers is that it's like we can do this on our own.
01:07:53
Speaker
Yeah. If a company wants to give us a couple hundred thousand dollars, we could make a movie for them. A couple hundred thousand? Yeah, five hundred k There you go, everybody. Two million?
01:08:04
Speaker
Tom Casper will make your movie for two million. Two million. And that's steal. I mean, you're saying you we couldn't make ah movie for two million? Oh, we could make a movie for two million.
01:08:15
Speaker
but We could. We could definitely make a short. We could make a great movie for two million. We have an anthology that could be made for under two million.
01:08:26
Speaker
I mean...
01:08:29
Speaker
But that's that's the worst part. like At our level, you're going to get peep if if you're lucky, if you're fortunate, you're going to get people who are a steal. And if you're doing this right, everyone's going to be a steal.
01:08:42
Speaker
So far, that's been the case. But you you because they are a steal, you got to put in that do ah due diligence to be right there present with them. Make sure they're not wasting any more time.
01:08:56
Speaker
And I think that's the worst thing that we've done is we may have wasted the time of a lot of people, including our time and your money and post.
01:09:09
Speaker
And, you know, principle is not the end. you yeah There's a whole post section that you got to get done and you got to get it done right. And if you do it, you're going to get a better result and you're going to save a lot of money.
01:09:25
Speaker
And Tom and I, we've learned a lot. And fortunately, we have the sound team we do to be forgiving. But, you know, i learned a lot too because I guess maybe that's the other issue with doing a film with someone else is that we're on a language where you and me understand each other very much and it's clear as to what we don't want. I mean, there's issues where...
01:09:51
Speaker
we contradict each other for sure. But for like 99% of that, we don't. One thing I will say about- it And it feels, but what I would say is it feels clear when we say we don't like something. And then every time we give it to someone else, it's not that clear. And it's like, okay, well, everyone has to see, everyone seems to have the issue but us.
01:10:15
Speaker
So where could the issue lie? You know, it's in us and our communication. Like, yeah and And that's kind of the scary part is like, I think we're very clear on what we're saying.
01:10:26
Speaker
And then a lot of people say like, well, I didn't know you guys weren't clear. it's like, fuck, man. like I understood exactly what he was saying. And you have to step back from that and kind of look at look at it more objectively like – Okay, I know what no means. You know what no means, but what does no mean to everyone else? And then you have to write it out and explain it a lot more clearly.
01:10:50
Speaker
And that's important, especially if you're working at a low-end budget because... These people won't come forever. Well, also, if you're lucky, you got someone who's doing you a favor and you want to repay that favor.
01:11:02
Speaker
And for us so far, we've been getting people who are doing us a favor. And so we should repay that favor by being a little more responsible and clearly communicating things and being like, are you sure you understand it?
01:11:17
Speaker
Do you understand it? Understand it. Understand it you know and And really kind of forcing that point in Yeah. and And I think we did learn.
01:11:29
Speaker
A real world example.
01:11:32
Speaker
In Dickhead. I'll take a drink because I mentioned the film. That's all we talk about here. In our film, Dickhead. So there's a scene where our character, Karen, she is our opening cold open act.
01:11:48
Speaker
She's getting undressed and starting a bath. She's covered in crap. She's had a long day. a little drunk, little buzzed, and she just wants to wash the day away.
01:12:02
Speaker
Now, there is this just one one-er wide shot. This scene. we we I don't think we haven't even gotten to an agreeance on this.
01:12:14
Speaker
No. All right. Let's see if we can do this here live. And so there is this, it's this wide wonder of her walking in, turning on the faucet. Because she's going to take a shower. Take a bath, shower.
01:12:27
Speaker
She's going to, then she comes back into frame. She undresses. This is our- Tom's a pervert. Tantalizing. To be fair, my original idea for this is much better than I think what we got, which is unfortunate.
01:12:44
Speaker
Yeah, because we were supposed to film an entire other day. Yeah. And then when you were like, yeah, man, we could have shot that. i was like, oh, ah we could have? That was on the table? It was written. It was storyboarded. I'm ready to sign off, you know? Like, i have a good life. it was like, oh, shit. I will say I got talked into finishing it in one night. We talked about this before where we said...
01:13:09
Speaker
Essentially, don't let others talk you into making these decisions. You got to make sure you're good on what you're filming. And yeah we were good, but we could have been better.
01:13:21
Speaker
We made it work. And I feel like that's the. ah But that's the issue, too. It's like quote of the day. but made it work But that's the issue, too. It's like you can get what you want.
01:13:33
Speaker
But if you hold out, can you get what you really want? Like there's compromises. There's levels of compromise. and Yes. When we filmed, we made – we just succumbed. We were like submissive so much.
01:13:47
Speaker
Well, we were To a detriment. Absolutely. good reason. But now that we're at where we're at now, don't know.
01:14:00
Speaker
Well, it's either going to speak for itself or it's not. And you're going to get the deal we got or you're not. We hope that you get the deal we got. And we hope you get the deal we got.
01:14:10
Speaker
And we hope you get a deal better. But the reality is, like, we we took 10 years on this shit, man. Like... 10 years and tens of thousands of dollars. Yeah, I mean, the script was fine.
01:14:23
Speaker
It was all right. But then... Everything the script wanted to do, we captured in the edit for the most part. who And that sells, you know? we we There's something to taking the time on our end.
01:14:38
Speaker
And granted, we're not saying take 10 years to get your – hopefully take less. No. yeah i will This is what I'll say. You want to talk about that? Dickhead shouldn't have been a 10 year movie.
01:14:50
Speaker
No, it's not that good. It's not a 10 year movie. It's unique. Even when it's completely done, it's not a 10 year movie. We should have finished it a lot sooner. there I have a million reasons why we didn't. And there's a million reasons why you shouldn't take that long.
01:15:07
Speaker
it I can't go in the past. I can't change what happened. We learned what we learned. We learned a lot of things the hard way. One of the things we one of the few things we agree on, Dickhead is not a 10-year-long movie. No.
01:15:21
Speaker
And that's why when we were talking about like ah when we were talking about getting a colorist, I'm like, I don't want to pay $10,000 for a colorist. i want the movie to be the best movie it can be.
01:15:35
Speaker
But there's also ah point where it's price point. Do we want to go into debt for the rest of our lives? There's a price point to all this. I would rather say no and give the best dickhead that we can with what we can afford. Yeah.
01:15:51
Speaker
And then whatever that comes of that, then we can- If if something comes from dickhead- I'm ready to go in. I'm so ready. Yeah. We've been training ourselves for the past 10 years to do this.
01:16:06
Speaker
Yeah. We've gone through all the issues. If we actually had a budget, I can't imagine. you would be we could We could make clown in a cornfield, too. I mean, we could make something.
01:16:22
Speaker
We could make something interesting. we so So what's kept you going... This long then. i mean, um you, the belief in the story, but mostly working with you is fun.
Enjoyment and humor in collaboration
01:16:34
Speaker
What can I say? I have a good time.
01:16:40
Speaker
I have a good time. i mean, of course we bicker, but that's part of the fun. Yeah. we It's not like we're bickering for the sake of bickering. We're bickering because we want the best product.
01:16:52
Speaker
And then when you see her, right? You know, it's like, I told you. Because there's been so many moments where you're like, nah, Steven, I did this. Look at this. And I'm like, oh, shit. I'll do shit. happens so often with both of us. And it's just like. No, but it's so.
01:17:06
Speaker
I mean, I'll say it's a beautiful moment because it's like. Wow, this recontextualizes everything. And then I'm still thinking about it weeks, months later. And I'm just like, dude, you realize this? And you're like, yeah, bro.
01:17:20
Speaker
That's why I cut it that way. Oh, okay. Yeah. but But that's the beauty of it is just kind of finding that. But, you know, we're a unique case. I mean, David Lynch, who we always like refer to because, you know, he made he's David Lynch. I mean, come on.
01:17:40
Speaker
Rest in peace. Goddamn, dude. Fucking a world without David Lynch. Ugh. Sad. It's this Trump world. It's just like, fuck, man.
01:17:51
Speaker
Give us something to hope on, too. Those LA fires, would kill them. Jesus Christ, man. Anyways, I'm going to start crying. But, um ah you know, like... We lost one of the true ones.
01:18:03
Speaker
Yeah. That we had a respect to see, you know? Like, grow up with. Twin Peaks, man. i don't about you, but I remember watching Twin Peaks when it was coming out week to week. Oh my God. And it was just... Did you see... haven't seen this.
01:18:17
Speaker
Tell it to me, buddy. Live on air.
01:18:21
Speaker
Where did it get sent?
01:18:26
Speaker
Oh, shit. My heart's stopping. Where was it? I'm David Lynch-ing.
01:18:34
Speaker
We have a general chat and a music chat and then maybe private messages.
01:18:43
Speaker
it Drum roll. It was a message from Adam. He said, fuck you.
01:18:55
Speaker
and and minute ne it was a message from adam he said fuck you But where did he post it? Well, maybe he deleted it because he was like, I'm done.
01:19:09
Speaker
Fuck these guys. Shit. Well, so pretty much he said, I'm pretty sure I sent the wrong file to John. And he probably mixed the file without Foley at all.
01:19:27
Speaker
No, it had Foley. some But remember they said he added some? Yeah. So what he added, not what Pat added. it Well, it had something on there, so... Not a lot, though.
01:19:39
Speaker
But, you know, that's what clear communication is all about. Because um when you get to this point where someone fucks up, you want to make sure it's on their end and not on yours. And right now where Tom and I are, it's falling a lot on ours. I mean, you just got to be...
01:19:57
Speaker
clear and tell people no, and just say no, because no is pretty clear. if i If I tell you, hey, what do you think about this blue sky?
01:20:08
Speaker
No, it's supposed to be red skies over Mars. Then you put it in a red sky, you know? And me and Tom are like, well, you know, if you like blue, man, like what if you add a little bit of red? Just see how the red feels. Just see how it feels.
01:20:25
Speaker
What does it say to you? And they're like, yeah, we did we did the blue skies in it. Fuck it. I mean, here's what you want. It's like, wait, you know, red sky. Yo, motherfucker, we did blue skies. like, wow, okay, okay.
01:20:40
Speaker
And it doesn't have to get to that point. just be Just be clear, you know? I guess that's the ultimate thing I learned is just – To be a lot more clear, because I sent over notes that was never meant to be sent to them because it was a little bit more straight to the point.
01:20:58
Speaker
You know, after a while, i was like trying to describe to you. But then after a while, it was like, well, no, no, not working. No, no, no. And, ah you know, if we had sent a lot of that to them earlier, at least music-wise, um we could we could have saved them a lot of time.
01:21:16
Speaker
And that just keeps things running more smoothly. I mean, it's it has to be a well-oiled machine. And when you get to post, when you get here... i I mean, you know maybe you're better than us, but I know you and me getting here to post, I'm exhausted.
01:21:33
Speaker
yeah And I'm not keeping up the same level of...
01:21:40
Speaker
professionalism. Like when we were doing principle, i was writing the shoot schedules. I was contacting people. I mean, I was fucking on it, man. i so i I don't know how little I was sleeping, but I was getting to people and we were getting it done. We were getting everything scheduled. I did not have a day off.
Challenges in post-production and filmmaker envy
01:21:57
Speaker
Yeah. You didn't have a day off for like seven days a week for six months straight. Six months straight. I had weekends off. And so I was telling Tom, i was like, look, buddy, leave it to me. I'll contact people.
01:22:09
Speaker
I'll take care of it. And then once we got to post, it's just like, ah buddy, i can't I can't. And then Tom's like, don't worry, buddy. I got it.
01:22:20
Speaker
And you're taking care of me. but Now we finally got to a point where it's like, okay, i need to take care of him. And it's realizing like, we're not out of this. We're still in the middle.
01:22:32
Speaker
Yes, yeah I know we're onto sound. Yes, I know we got picture locked, but we got to get this figured out. And until it's fucking done, done, done, done you can watch it a million times.
01:22:44
Speaker
You're just going to do a little this one frame, that one frame, but scores what it is, foley's what it is. edits what it is, ah dialogue cleanup is what it is VFX. like Once that all is what it is, you just have to move on and accept that in and just learning like, yeah, we're really not done here.
01:23:08
Speaker
I got to step it up. And and this encouraged me too. This did encourage me too. ah I mean, I said it a few times in the meeting. And if you're ah filmmaker and you're out there, like, you know, i kind of envy Not maybe I don't.
01:23:29
Speaker
I don't envy the filmmakers that suck and don't give a shit. Because they're just bad. And I think, do you envy the filmmakers who who you could tell they attempted something and it just never delivered?
01:23:43
Speaker
No, I don't envy them. Then who do you envy? i envy Richard Linklater for making Slacker. You didn't even see Slackers. I haven't. You so shut up.
01:23:55
Speaker
I just kind of envy him. I envy Kevin Smith for making Clerks. Who do you envy for making that first film? Because there's Clerks and there's, of course, ah Orson Welles. Casablanca. mean, Citizen Kane. Citizen Kane. But we won't in include Citizen Kane. So there's Clerks.
01:24:12
Speaker
um Because you haven't seen Linklater. And until you see Linklater, I don't know. You can't talk shit. because Because then you're going see Before Sunrise and you'll like, oh, I know what Steven meant.
01:24:23
Speaker
I've seen it Before Sunrise. Yeah, i know. And then you're going to see so Slackers. You're like, okay, I can see what Steven meant for Before Sunrise, the prequel. But I just think like, there was that time.
01:24:37
Speaker
So we missed it by like 10 years, right? Because we're 10 years essentially older than them. No, we it by 20 years. When did Slacker come out? In 96?
01:24:49
Speaker
No. I want to say Slacker probably came out in 90.
01:24:54
Speaker
Well, then we'll see. We're only five years old. No, no, no, no. So he I'm going to tell a quick, this is a quick film history story maybe you aren't aware of. You know I'm not. So Sam Raimi directs Evil Dead.
01:25:08
Speaker
Not 90s. No, no, no, no. Just let me tell a story. Sam Raimi directs Evil Dead. Yeah. He borrows money from dentists. He borrows money from anyone that he can... For the sequel.
01:25:21
Speaker
No, no, no. For just dick fer and just Evil Dead. Oh, shit. So he borrows, like i said, borrows money from dentists, borrows money from his parents. Everything he can do to make Evil Dead, he does.
01:25:32
Speaker
How much was Evil Dead? Like $7,000? Something like that. But then it the budget ballooned when it was bought because then they paid to finish the effects. Oh, the post. Yeah.
01:25:43
Speaker
There you go. But hold on. So Evil Dead gets made, right? Sam Raimi. He's a Wisconsin boy. He's got friends you know his friends. He's friends with Linklater?
01:25:58
Speaker
No, he's friends. This is before Linklater. This is what sets up that generation. Oh, no. He was friends with the Coens, man. They helped him. The Coens. Exactly. Coen brothers make In Cold Blood.
01:26:13
Speaker
Talk about a great first movie. have you ever seen In Cold Blood? In Cold Blood was after The Evil Dead. Yes, a little bit. to the Which is essentially the first one.
01:26:24
Speaker
Yeah. But the Coen brothers helped edit Evil Dead 2. But just to give everyone, because Sam Raimi helped on In Cold Blood. In Cold Blood, but I don't think they give him a credit.
01:26:35
Speaker
I think he's a producer. Okay. Something like that. but So like these people all know each other, right? Yeah. I mean, you got Joel and Ethan Coen working on your film. I don't care how old they are. They could be so you five years old. That's what I'm saying. So you got Evil Dead, and you got Evil Dead 2.
01:26:54
Speaker
Well, they helped on Evil Dead 2. I don't know if they helped on Evil Dead 1. No. Let me get to where I'm saying. Okay. So there's two guys. One's name is Lawrence Bender, and the other name is Scott Spiegel.
01:27:07
Speaker
Lawrence Bender and Scott Beagle are friends with um our buddy and friend, Sam Raimi. They live out in LA and they want to make movies.
01:27:20
Speaker
Lawrence Bender is a director. When was this? Is producer. This is the 80s. No, but is this like after Evil Dead 1? Evil Dead 2. After Evil Dead 2. Did the Coens work on that?
01:27:30
Speaker
Coens worked on Evil Dead 2 and helped edit the film. But then they lost contact and then... they No, no. Sam Raimi, they're all friends, right? they there's like all There's like this group of Midwesterners yeah The Coens, Sam Raimi, these two guys, Scott Spiegel and Lawrence Bender.
01:27:49
Speaker
Okay, so they're like, hey man, I got, you've made it over here. hey So they're all kind of friends. So Scott Spiegel's like, moves to LA, he tries to get a gig.
01:28:00
Speaker
Lawrence Bender wants to be producer, Scott Spiegel writer-director. okay And he's like, okay, there was you guys made a lot of success with Evil Dead 2. Scott Spiegel's like, okay, Lawrence and I wrote the script called The Intruder, 1989.
01:28:18
Speaker
Stars Sam Raimi, Ted Raimi, bunch of other- It stars Sam Raimi? Sam Raimi's in the film, yeah. It's a slasher that takes place in a grocery store.
01:28:30
Speaker
Fantastic film. and Fantastic film. But I've never heard of The Intruder, so it's not... Directed by Scott Spiegel. Produced by Lawrence Bender. couple years go by. Intruder... you know it's like No one saw it except for Tom Casper.
01:28:46
Speaker
Yeah. i You know, I saw even it. Stephen ain't never seen it. You should watch it. It's fucking... It's like the burning... burn you should Those are great. That's actually a great double pairing. The Burning and Intruder. No, my bird my double pair was The Burning and ah The Brutalist.
01:29:02
Speaker
Oh, nice. And you can imagine why that's a terrible pairing. Yeah, but The Burning is good. It's so good. It's not fair. like Sometimes I think like, wow. there it's The reason I watch so many shit films is because I love finding that gem.
01:29:17
Speaker
Oh, man. I love finding Like Killer Tomatoes? ah Yes, I love finding that gem in the rough. And it's like, man, you know, people. on all sure Yeah, I love finding the yours.
01:29:30
Speaker
and love finding the yours. I've been listening to that episode on the podcast. Your. like, oh, fucking your. I love that film so much. It's like the room, but you love it.
01:29:44
Speaker
it's It's the room of the Shin Godzilla. You want a great description of yore? It's so bad you can't help help but love it. It's bad as fuck. oh You're just yelling yore, those Aryan motherfuckers.
01:29:59
Speaker
and And loving it. Yore is so great. Yeah, I love Yore. Yore, the hunter of the future. I love how on that podcast, i was like, oh, man, every movie's a masterpiece.
01:30:11
Speaker
And then I'm editing I'm like, shut the fuck up, man. Hey, man, Ninja 3. No, shut up, Steven. You cocksucker. So Scott Spiegel and Lawrence Bender.
01:30:22
Speaker
You'll know these names, but you don't know why until I tell you.
01:30:28
Speaker
There's a little filmmaker that a lot of people look up to. You know what his name is? Quentin Tarantino. Tarantino. He was a little guy at a movie store with his buddy who just rewoundered the films. His name was Pete Thomas Anderson.
01:30:46
Speaker
Or Roger Avery, depending. And he took a shit with Adam Sandler every day. So Scott Spiegel...
01:30:57
Speaker
It's just like trauma, except of good movies. And Lawrence Bender, right? The Make Intruder, 1989. Fuck, it's such a good movie. Have you ever seen the Toxic Avengers? Yeah.
01:31:08
Speaker
I saw the preview for it, and I was like, I didn't know this was this film. This might be the greatest film I've ever seen in my life. You know? Because I was super high when I was watching this, and I was like, this is a film I got to watch high.
01:31:20
Speaker
I think Adam did delete that message. Yeah, he's like, Tom, I love you. You did a good one, eh? But, man, I saw the preview for The Toxic Avengers, and I was like, shit.
01:31:35
Speaker
This is as good as The Killer Tomatoes. No, it's so good. It's so good. The Killer Tomatoes, right?
01:31:44
Speaker
The thing about Killer Tomatoes is, and I love it. Yeah. I love that movie. It's got tomatoes. Luke, lu you know what? There's a thing about kids.
01:31:56
Speaker
Did they drain the life out of you? No, it's like... Sorry i said like again, but... I think you could say like in this instance. Yeah, I was using it as a simile. You kind of like understand your likes.
01:32:10
Speaker
ah yeah Luke, he loves Killer Tomatoes. That's why i love Luke, man. And I'm just thinking like, why do you like Killer Tomatoes? He's like, dude, it's good.
01:32:22
Speaker
It's good, bro. and i And I'm thinking, this movie's not good. It's not great. It's okay. Yeah. But every time I watch it, you know what? I smile.
01:32:35
Speaker
I laugh. Yeah. It's so fucking stupid. Yeah. But it's so dumb you love it. Yeah. And that's the best we could hope for, man. And think... Like me with Dogman.
01:32:45
Speaker
Because I was listening to Lockpacks. Lockpacks. was like, Dogman, Dogman. Bow, bow, bow, bow, bow. I watched Dogman. Yeah. And then were like, fucking Steven, I hate you so much. i was like, oh shit. No, I don't hate You hated me. You hated me for a second. You were like, dude. For a second, yes, because this motherfucker had the gall. you serious?
01:33:05
Speaker
Steven Tejas had the gall. Are you serious? Steven Roberto Tejas. Yep. He had the gall to say that Dogman was the best film of 2024. And 2025. And I was like, you have got do Fucking shitting me.
01:33:24
Speaker
and so Was I correct? I just kept thinking. Let me ask you. Was i got to watch this movie. I got to watch it. This motherfucker said it was the best movie. I mean, like, it's Steven. The Bruin List came out. There's like, in the past 10 years, there's only been one movie that has been over an 8.0 for him. It's been Parasite. Yeah. Everything else has fallen short. And this motherfucker was like, you got to see Dogman.
01:33:49
Speaker
Yeah. And then I watched Dogman. And now, Darkman's not a bad movie. Oh, shit. But holy shit, you fucking oversold that movie like a goddamn motherfucker.
01:34:03
Speaker
Darkman is not bad. Luc Besson is a great director. He's like Paul W.S. Anderson. Okay. Paul W.S. Anderson has only made like three good movies, and one of them is Mortal Kombat.
01:34:15
Speaker
Yeah. ah so The other is Event Horizon. ah Yeah, you make a good point. The other one is Resident Evil. and or Yeah, exactly. And I'm like, okay.
01:34:27
Speaker
It's Paul Dummier, right? And, you know, he made a Event Horizon.
01:34:35
Speaker
Event Horizon is a really good movie. Yeah. It's very competently made. paul tom but Paul W.S. Anderson has never made a bad movie, which is saying a lot. A lot of people make bad movies.
01:34:48
Speaker
Ridley Scott has made really bad movies. Paul W.S. Anderson has never made a bad movie. Have you seen all the Resident Evils? I have. I've watched every single one of them. And they're not bad. In a row.
01:34:59
Speaker
They're not bad. They are so fucking dumb. You have to love it. But they're not bad. They're not bad. Interesting. I've seen a lot of bad movies.
01:35:13
Speaker
Yeah, you saw yours. No, I take it a personal interest in watching bad movies. No, I mean, there's only one way you end up at yours. Just this past weekend, I made my entire family watch a Barbarian Queen, 1981.
01:35:26
Speaker
No. And that
Emotional journey and filmmaking lessons
01:35:28
Speaker
movie has a woman that kills a man with her vagina. That sounds amazing. And it... It's so bad, it's good.
01:35:37
Speaker
And i seek my entire life to find these films and you don't appreciate them. No, I'll say this. This is what's so funny is I'll look on what you've watched.
01:35:50
Speaker
It's just this slew of just these most random genre films. It'll be like just noir and then 30 movies of noir.
01:36:02
Speaker
Or it'll be like Barbarian Escaped Queen. for 40 movies of that. it it's like, I've never seen this, but there's a lot of naked women in this poster. Yes, sir. I'm going to watch that one.
01:36:13
Speaker
So just this past weekend, I i just get this itch to watch some of the worst movies ever. And I'll tell you, i watched a few. Creepazoids.
01:36:27
Speaker
It's fucking fantastic. I love it. I can't get enough of that film. That's me and Killer Tomatoes. I love these movies. Creepazoid, it starts Leonetta Quigley.
01:36:38
Speaker
And it's about these people in the post-apocalyptic world finding this lab where they've been experimenting on genetics. And it's like, instead of a baby, it's like a mutant man and it breeds with the girl. And it's like, this isn't good.
01:36:54
Speaker
yeah But I love it. You know what I watched and I loved? Sorority Massacre House number two. I love that movie. yeah I was so engaged. It's so bad.
01:37:05
Speaker
like why are they just naked all the time? i don't know. But I like it. okay I'm not perfect. I love la Ventura. I loved Come and See.
01:37:18
Speaker
i love Tokyo Story. And you know what I love? Barbarian Queen. Oh, yeah. Barbarian Queen. That's what I love. I love you too, buddy.
01:37:29
Speaker
And you know what? That's the only thing that never changed, man. is no but yeah what You know why I was so upset? it wasn't It wasn't that Adam and Pat maybe didn't understand us. It wasn't that Adam and Pat had delivered something that we weren't happy with.
01:37:46
Speaker
It was that I failed you. but Because I had taken this responsibility. Because I know, man, i understand. you did You did so much in principle.
01:37:59
Speaker
I know. You did so much. You fucking went above and beyond. and You scheduled. You talked to the actors. You got here. And I mean...
01:38:10
Speaker
you got them here and i mean
01:38:15
Speaker
You fucking... You know what? Well, you're supposed to have a ah dp We were supposed to have someone that would like understand this investment, this camera that you bought, so that we looked like legit filmmakers for these l LA actors. And we had this nice red 1 MX with this fancy zoom lens. And you know what? We didn't know how to use the camera. We fucked ourselves harder than then fucking Sisyphus pushing a rock up a hill.
01:38:42
Speaker
And I don't care because you fucking worked so hard, man. You worked so hard. I was so hard at that time. I was younger.
01:38:53
Speaker
You were younger. We all were younger. It was a lot easier to get that hard. and i would think I just remember thinking, man, you did so much, man. You made principle happen. You really made dickhead happen.
01:39:06
Speaker
Well, I just got to say this, buddy, is that we don't got to... um We just got to say this to the end. Oh, of course. But no, no, no. Let me say this.
01:39:18
Speaker
It's just like... Right? And I felt like you made principle happen. And like I was supposed to make post happen. But see, you're not giving yourself credit because you are making post happen.
01:39:31
Speaker
I never would have found Pat and Adam if it wasn't for you. No, no, no. But what I'm saying is I hold... Ever since we did the edit, ever since we...
01:39:48
Speaker
We didn't need Sean. We didn't need Benny.
01:39:54
Speaker
We needed each other. We just needed... I know it sounds... But buddy, it's just like, fuck. You know, we just needed each other the whole time. man.
01:40:05
Speaker
And I just needed to believe that we could make something good. Something worth it. And we did. but and that's the... And then when we had this... When we had these notes...
01:40:18
Speaker
To bring it back to ah this Adam and Pat story and this, hopefully this I don't know. It's a cautionary tale for those yeah that are listening to the show and want to make films. Getting it this far. it's for It's for our Joshes. It's for our Nathans. It's for our Adam... Stevens.
01:40:39
Speaker
Steven Joes. It's for our Steven Arrepezes. Look, Steven Arrepez, he's way farther ahead than us in a lot of ways. Yeah. That motherfucker, he's making things happen for himself. Like...
01:40:52
Speaker
You know, he like raises kids in the day and then he he know he's writing and making movies with Instagram stars at night. Yeah. Nothing as close as good as Dickhead.
01:41:05
Speaker
But, no you know, I love that guy. um
01:41:11
Speaker
The best thing I think that ah we've done is... That shit's hitting you, huh? I want another dimension. It seems to be like a fucking brick.
01:41:22
Speaker
But no, you know what? just want to say this. Hold on. Let me say it. Because I was talking about your and you know a barbarian queen and sorority house party. Sorority house slaughter two.
01:41:33
Speaker
And me. ah And you. And just... You made principle a possibility. We had went from a non committal, very bullshit, dumb idea of standing in the photo lab and thinking, i like movies. Have you ever seen Desert of the Dead? And you're like, what's Desert of the Dead? And like, it's a zombie movie be I made with my friends. And you're like, oh, let me see it. Can I tell you something about Desert of the Dead?
01:42:02
Speaker
Yeah, man. Man, I went to Japan and I lived there for like a month. So it sounds impressive. But I was a tourist for a month. In Tokyo. Tokyo.
01:42:13
Speaker
And man, I got hit with homesickness so bad. and it was literally Desert of the Dead. i seriously, because I didn't know you back then. I know people who knew you, but I didn't know you.
01:42:27
Speaker
And they were like, hey man, this guy did Desert the Dead. I was like oh, I've seen it once. It kind of sucked, but whatever. It's fair. But then, you know, i i literally watched your film every day, man.
01:42:43
Speaker
Because it just felt me, it felt, it made me feel so connected with home. Because I got homesick, man. I thought I was going to like this badass dude who's like, I don't need nobody. Look at me.
01:42:54
Speaker
And I got fucking homesick. you know You sure it's not because I casted like six of your exes? Yeah, it was because you casted six of my exes. That's why i tuned in. But I watched that film so fucking much. And it was specifically the first half that I watched a lot.
01:43:13
Speaker
And, you know, that film, I guess that's what we all could hope for is that a film means something for someone in some way. And that film meant something for me in a way.
01:43:27
Speaker
It did. So when it was like, dude, let's make a real film. You know, I jumped on that with you and it was like, I know how I am, so I'm not going to want to settle for less if I can do something better.
01:43:41
Speaker
And, you know, we went way beyond what we thought this would equate to. we went way beyond Desert of the Dead. Yeah, we went way beyond. and and and i just remember when we started cranking out script pages and how effortless it kind of was.
01:44:04
Speaker
hu Also, just how much fun it was. To write and i I'm so used to ah just kind of writing. And this is why, man ah i don't know how people receive that Bobolowski episode.
01:44:23
Speaker
But that's my favorite episode. Oh, that's our best episode. I think by far those two episodes. When we wrote Bobolowski and the process of writing Bobolowski. pretty sure it's only two episodes and then we come back to it later. But it's really those two episodes, man.
01:44:39
Speaker
I know ah
01:44:43
Speaker
how gay this sounds.
01:44:46
Speaker
But you've always made it worth it, buddy. um Thanks, buddy. That's what I was saying. I needed you here today, man. I didn't want to say but it was like, man, I need that.
01:44:58
Speaker
Well, we've been through it, man. I need that support. I needed you. and i I thought you had got it. i was like, I'm coming over. no i was like, okay, he's not coming over. That's cool. I cleaned up shit. i was like, I'll be there at 830.
01:45:12
Speaker
ah Because, yeah, I... ah No bullshit. I thought we were done with Adam and Pat. Yeah, I thought they hated us for a good second there. And I know that's silly. That may be daddy issues. That may be self-worth issues.
01:45:31
Speaker
Imposter syndrome. Whatever you want to call it. But I was just like, oh, it's too late. Yeah. And also lately, it's like... Dude, with everything going on in life, it's so hard to make dickhead the priority.
01:45:50
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. That's like, yeah, we should be meeting. Yes, we should be working and pushing these guys. We're close, man. Yeah. ah Once we get sound right, I mean, yeah, VFX is VFX is up in the air, but it might not be if we get the person that we want to do what we we need to do.
01:46:16
Speaker
pat was just talking about they know people like We need to use those resources. Yeah. You know, if we need to pay $5,000, $6,000 to get the color right, let's do it.
01:46:30
Speaker
Like, let's get it done. like
01:46:34
Speaker
I don't think we're crazy to think dick had dickhead isn't something special. Well, you know, you're talking about Desert Dead and, you know, what I meant to you the first half and...
01:46:52
Speaker
I mean, when I was making that movie, it was just a desire to hang out with people and explore the things I love and see if that could work. Because you never know. It's hard.
01:47:09
Speaker
i had no idea what I was really doing. It was, hey you know, me, a camera, my buddy Jeremy and a camera. Yeah.
01:47:22
Speaker
I didn't own it. i We had two cameras. They didn't have the same frame rate, same ISO, same anything. Yeah. And I just cut it together, made it black and white like I do at the end of the day because color is, it's so intricate. It's, people ah people don't appreciate color for what it is.
01:47:45
Speaker
there's um There's so much meaning behind everything. And I think Dickhead loses a bit of that because we had color in mind for characters, but not for set.
01:47:56
Speaker
We had colors in mind for who people were and settings, but we didn't dress our set to have those
Exploration of story depth in 'Dickhead'
01:48:05
Speaker
colors. We didn't dress our set to...
01:48:09
Speaker
I mean, we didn't know better. It was white walls. My favorite shot of Desert of Dead, by the way. That would have been a simple thing to do to correct, right?
01:48:20
Speaker
It would have been simple. Yeah. It could have been as simple as just putting up temporary posters that we printed for cheap at the college. Yeah. And just painting the walls ah different color.
01:48:34
Speaker
Maybe ah the party is you know like a random color of reds and blues and purples. And it's more chaotic. Maybe it's orange and black.
01:48:47
Speaker
Maybe the party is more black and white than we imagine because it's a party of lameness. It's party black and white. and There's no gray because there's no life. Because it's lame, yeah.
01:48:59
Speaker
Maybe that's what's something we would have thought of. Maybe that's we would have incorporated. That's a little too deep. We could have went there, though. like The thing is with Dickhead, we're pretentious as fuck already. Yeah, but that's a little too much.
01:49:12
Speaker
i mean we But we ride the line. But that but that's where the we ride the line is we're pretentious as fuck. But you know what? You don't have to get the layers to enjoy the story. The story is there to say, Tom wants Jennifer.
01:49:26
Speaker
well Richard wants Jennifer. yeah Kevin wants Jennifer. Lexi does not want Kevin and Jennifer to meet. yeah That's the story.
01:49:38
Speaker
It's there. There you go. Guess what? Richard doesn't want Jennifer to be anyone. Exactly. yeah But not only that, Richard's had the hardest life of anyone that's in the movie.
01:49:50
Speaker
His life sucks. Nothing is good in his life. And then he met Jennifer. And you know what? He loves Jennifer. She's the only person that's given him any time of day. But she doesn't love him because he's a weird fuck and he's weird.
01:50:04
Speaker
And you're not going to marry the weird fuck. Yeah. Look, Kevin don't got a lot going for him, but his dad probably owns a good car rental. Yeah. You know, used car sales dealer. Kevin's going to show you a good time for like, until he gets it. he's good looking.
01:50:19
Speaker
Yeah. i mean And you know what? He probably is good at fucking a little bit. And it's just, that's just the story. He's good at fucking. He's probably good at fucking. It's it's just unfortunate, but it's true. Yeah.
01:50:34
Speaker
He's banged everyone in town worth banging. And there ain't no one left but the new hot chick. Yeah. And that's Jennifer. Yeah. And that's why I struggle with the idea that we cut that scene.
01:50:50
Speaker
It's like it's ugly. i understand that. But fuck, it's so important. Cut what scene? Lexi warning Jennifer. Oh, no. You sold it.
01:51:02
Speaker
We cut it. No, but is there's a lot there. oh I know. But we did it. We cut it, and it's fine. I mean, I don't miss it.
01:51:14
Speaker
I don't miss it, but ah well I do miss it. ah Dude, it's tough. I think we sell enough of what we need to. um
01:51:26
Speaker
Yeah, it's just tough. I mean, just to be more clear and then to suffer it and to think of what you could have had, what you envisioned.
01:51:38
Speaker
But...
01:51:40
Speaker
We are where we are. We're not in a bad spot, though. you know like yeah That's the thing. we're like we're not We're not in a bad spot, and we could just got to... Exactly. And that's what that's kind of the struggle.
01:51:52
Speaker
We're not in a bad spot. the only thing is We know we have a good edit. But the only thing now that's different is we don't have the control. So we just got to trust.
01:52:03
Speaker
And that's a hard thing to do, especially when we know where every beat should fall. Because we didn't, right? We were just like, this is where this is going to fall. That's where that's going to fall. If there's a window getting broken, this is where it's going to fall. And this is how it's going to sound. And if we don't get it right, we're getting something close.
01:52:23
Speaker
But don't know. I don't know if it takes that much. Yeah, it does. Because I mean, I think it does for us, obviously, but... It does because it deserves it.
01:52:39
Speaker
It's because it's... ah but It's worth our effort to do it. For us, yeah. I want to say... For this specific thing, but in general... You know what?
01:52:50
Speaker
If it's your first, I guess it has to, You know, this and this is arrogant, but out of all the guests that we've had, all the films that we've...
01:53:05
Speaker
Here he goes. Looked at. He's going to say he's better. Dickhead. Here it comes. He is. It's better. oh hey.
01:53:18
Speaker
Are we wrong? am I crazy? No. Because you took ten we took 10 years. We took. I mean, it's got to count for something. Yeah, it's got to come for a lot. It's not because they're on their third film and we're on our first.
01:53:33
Speaker
Well, I will say this. Some of them are on their 45th short film, or some of them are on their ninth feature film. i don't even know. what no you know what? I'll say i think it's i think it's a good thing to have pride in your work.
01:53:51
Speaker
And we do. and i don't think that I don't want to apologize for that because, ah you know, it didn't have to be what it is. It never had to be what it is.
01:54:03
Speaker
And I'm so fucking debt over what it is. It didn't have to be that, but it is. And I'm in debt over it. And it's been 10 years and I'm still looking at a lot of debt. I really haven't paid off a whole lot.
01:54:16
Speaker
Fucking interest really accrues, buddy. I didn't know how fast it accrued. Oh, yeah. But, you know, I think this time in 2026,
01:54:27
Speaker
I'll be a different man. I'm going to pay off so much. You just wait, buddy. andd And, you know, I'm going to tell the kids, dickhead was worth it. You know, you you picked me. I didn't pick you. You know, I was in debt way before that. and But in all seriousness, it's kind of true.
01:54:50
Speaker
It's very true. But that's why we got to finish it. and And I think we're we're both very stuck on that belief that we got to finish it. Yeah.
01:55:03
Speaker
Even though we we understand it's not going to, it's probably not going to amount to anything or get anywhere. But that's beside the point. We got to do the best we can.
01:55:15
Speaker
and that's where I think it's been the hardest. film It's been the hardest to kind of. We got to focus on the art of it, you know? we got to make it the best we can with what we can. That's... Because that's what we've been doing this entire time. There's a very important word you said there, with what we can.
01:55:31
Speaker
um
01:55:34
Speaker
I think it's like, okay, you took nine years to edit and get the film. we didn't just like sit around and do nothing.
01:55:47
Speaker
No. And that I don't want... And you know, it sucks. It sucks that it took this long. Of course it sucks. Oh my God. Are you fucking kidding me You don't think... We don't feel every fucking year yeah that it is not done.
01:56:04
Speaker
You don't think that we fucking agonize over every goddamn month that we could be finished? We we were supposed to be done... This month, I told everyone on this podcast that we would be done in April by quarter one of 2025. I didn't agree with that. So that we would be ready to start submitting to festivals and this summer.
01:56:28
Speaker
We're not going to be done. No. it's stock and it's We're not close.
01:56:33
Speaker
We're closer than we have ever been, but we're not. yeah We got time.
01:56:41
Speaker
2026 is probably, you know, where the decade of the filmmaking process here is probably more realistic. Because we don't know where we're really at with color.
01:56:55
Speaker
And that's our last real straw. The straw. that VFX and ah vfx in color VFX to the extent of just, ah you know, getting rid of my reflection in the mirrors.
01:57:08
Speaker
I mean, that and the... Because that pulls you out of it. The dreaded rectangle of doom. Well, you know, I'll say, like, regardless of the Bermuda rectangle, our artifact that we've talked about many times, the green artifact in our film,
01:57:24
Speaker
If the sound's there, i don't... I mean, if the green artifact's
Reflection on dedication to filmmaking
01:57:29
Speaker
there, it's there. Whatever. But as long as the sound is there, i I'm good. Yeah.
01:57:36
Speaker
I can rest on that. And to think that we're close to that, I don't know, man. Because, like... I'm ready for you to talk about Desert of the Dead a little more.
01:57:47
Speaker
Yeah. Well, yeah. Well, okay, fine. ah When I was ah away in Japan, yeah, man, I watched that film. I didn't just watch it once. I watched it on repeat because it made me feel close to the desert. I must have watched the second episode. Yeah, I probably watched that.
01:58:08
Speaker
But, you know, that's what a film where someone has a passion for it can shine. You know, because at the end of the day, film is an art form.
01:58:22
Speaker
And when you see someone who's being sincere with it, even if it's schlocky, whatever, you know, you can still appreciate that. And I think with Dickhead, we're trying to achieve that.
01:58:40
Speaker
I would ah argue that with Dickhead, we achieved that. And it's...
01:58:48
Speaker
making sure that people can understand what we're trying to say. And that's why ah score is so hard. That's why the Foley is so hard.
01:58:59
Speaker
We planned for it to be hard. We, there was no
01:59:07
Speaker
bullshit aspiration. We joke about being, you know, compared to Citizen Kane. That's joke.
01:59:20
Speaker
I mean, we just fucking hope that 90 people could watch it at once. If 90 people watch this film at once and we get to- 20. 20. For the entirety.
01:59:31
Speaker
I'm kind of okay with 20.
01:59:33
Speaker
Green Jack Film Festival at Big Bear. We're there. Let us in. Steven Arpez at Temecula Film Festival.
01:59:44
Speaker
Let us in. Like- Shit. At the end of the day, i have high aspirations for Dickhead because it's a film that we worked hard on to make it right.
01:59:56
Speaker
We worked on it for longer than when ever one has anyone has ever had a right to work on a film. We've worked on Dickhead to try to make it right because Dickhead is our learning experience. It's...
02:00:10
Speaker
It's what we've dedicated all of our money and time to so that we, as you and I, Stephen and Tom, can understand what it means to be a filmmaker and what it means to go the distance. You know, you talk about you have jog at night that you haven't finished.
02:00:30
Speaker
And it's like, of course you haven't finished it. We haven't finished Dickhead. Of course you haven't finished a short film that we worked on you know, 10 years ago.
02:00:42
Speaker
Who cares? We spent everything we had to make dickhead. Jock at Night is good. It's fun. We can make it better.
02:00:52
Speaker
we can always make everything better. i know you have a good edit. I know you're ready. I know it's fear holding you back, but we can do it.
02:01:04
Speaker
We, we can do it. Yeah.
02:01:09
Speaker
Nothing to be afraid of anymore. all right. We can do it. Then we got to do it with dickhead though. You know? No, I know. And we had a meeting to make sure that we can do it.
02:01:23
Speaker
Well, you you know, you got to do it one step at a time, you know, like you mentioned dickhead. I can't argue anything you said. um But Dickhead is ah my priority, so it has to get finished.
02:01:36
Speaker
I know. Before the short. I mean, it's... It doesn't matter how good Dickhead could be.
02:01:48
Speaker
Because no matter what... I mean, in the wildest fantasy of my wildest dream...
02:02:00
Speaker
The improbability of all infinity. you were like Have you seen this movie be called Dickhead? It's amazing. Dickhead explodes, right?
02:02:10
Speaker
It just explodes on the scene. People love it. People talk about it. Right. Seth Rogen watches it I don't know. I don't care.
02:02:22
Speaker
But whatever, people watch it and it resonates. There's some connection to the world of dickhead that expands beyond you and I. Yeah, that'd be scary.
02:02:33
Speaker
And I just think there's a level of of ah mental anguish, guilt. Guilt? For what?
02:02:47
Speaker
if I had better mental fortitude, if you and I had worked harder, better, faster, this film could have been something for the actors that were in it.
02:02:59
Speaker
This might not be ah launching point for them at all anymore because of the time we've taken to make the film. Yeah. And it's something I remember just getting that message from Freeman, like, hey, I just don't act anymore, dude.
02:03:18
Speaker
I just, and I'm like, you're the fucking best part of our movie. You're so goddamn good, Freeman. Do you not realize how good you are? Oh, it's been 10 years since you've react reacted.
02:03:33
Speaker
But does that matter? A little bit. It matters a bit. No, but what I mean is- has to matter because- But what I mean is like- It's not just us. But what I mean is like, do you think that- These actors gave us everything they got, but we made fucking dickhead. And you know what? We made it fucking tight and we made it hard.
02:03:50
Speaker
And we fucking did something. And we're working on it. And we're working with Pat and Adam and John. And they're our fucking team. And we worked so fucking hard to make sure that we make a good film. Not just for us, but for them. Because they're giving us everything they got for every little bit that we got. Because we don't got a lot, but we got a little bit. And we gave it to them.
02:04:10
Speaker
And you know what? We got John. and we got fucking Pat. we got Adam. And we got... this motherfucker named Jorge. And you know, sure, he may not be living up to every single expectation that we have, but we offered this guy a dime for a dollar and he took it God bless you, Jorge.
02:04:29
Speaker
I'm so sorry we couldn't give you more. I'm so sorry we didn't do better. I'm so sorry you we fucking believed Charlie when we said it wasn't a big deal to have this weird rectangle in our fucking film. I'm so sorry.
02:04:41
Speaker
But you know what I can't say sorry about? That we fucking figured it out. We took our time. We tried and we tried and we... didn't believe in ourselves and there was a mistake and it's a mistake to not believe in yourself because there's only you to believe in yourself.
02:04:57
Speaker
And you're so lucky to be if you have a man like Stephen Teos behind your side and you got this unity, this bond, doesn't matter how long it will take. It doesn't matter how hard it will be. It doesn't matter if it's jog and night. It doesn't matter if it's blink. It doesn't matter. If it's dickhead, it doesn't matter.
02:05:15
Speaker
it's a short Twin Shadow podcast ad, it doesn't matter if it's an epic outdoor movie night. It doesn't matter if it's the Brutalist or if it's a Noro or if it's a big dick in your ass. It doesn't matter because...
02:05:29
Speaker
You and Stephen Tejas, we will figure it out and we'll work until we fucking die We'll work until the fucking whiskey wants dry. we will just keep going and going and going and until the fucking items in our mind run dry and we will keep going because there's nothing else that we can do until we die except for fucking work on the fucking film.
02:05:53
Speaker
Dickhead and a Jogging Night. What do you got say, buddy? I thought you were going to say cut. No, we got a lot to talk about still. Really?
02:06:04
Speaker
He fucking deleted that post. Yeah, he did. Well, um, whew. Damn, I went there, huh? Yeah, you did, man. And thank you.
02:06:17
Speaker
Um, so so thank you for believing in, in what I came up with, with the Joggin' Night 2, you know? Like,
02:06:27
Speaker
It's been six years on that, but we got to finish Dickhead because regardless, I know for me, it's it's this.
02:06:40
Speaker
My magnum opus is Dickhead. and and ah And I'm okay with that. To me No, but hold on. I'm okay with that. And I look forward to
02:06:53
Speaker
having another shot at something else. But I guess that's why it's so important for me to to do this right is like, hey, let's just do it right.
02:07:09
Speaker
Let's do all that we can for it and get it right. And, you know, that's it that's required a little bit more than what we thought.
02:07:21
Speaker
But also we've gotten to a place where it's like, yeah, you know, this this is fucking cool. It's fucking good. And we found people who will do that for us um audio-wise.
02:07:38
Speaker
And it's redefining this beautiful thing that we just get to be like, yeah, that little shitty film we did, we tried.
02:07:49
Speaker
and And... It's not shitty. that's what so No, but what I'm saying is like...
02:07:57
Speaker
you know There's no step of the way where we're not giving it the best that we can within the scope of what we can. And we're doing all we can for it. And that's something to appreciate because... ah I will say... you know it's It's an attempt.
02:08:14
Speaker
One thing I want to just put out there.
02:08:18
Speaker
I'm sure it's been brought up.
02:08:21
Speaker
And... i mean, of course, you would have to be... You know, insane to think it's okay to take as long as we've taken. Of course, Dickhead, I mean, it's not Citizen Kane.
02:08:37
Speaker
Nope. it's not ah It's not Intruder. It's not The Burning. It's not Barbarian Queen. It's, you know, if it's not these films, but...
02:08:51
Speaker
Not for the lack of trying. Not for our lack of love of the art. For the art of photography. For the framing. For the editing.
02:09:02
Speaker
For the time taken to make sure that it works. In any way at all. That we can explain why it works and how it works and why it works.
02:09:13
Speaker
The thing that matters is we gave it it all, man. I know you gave it every bit. I know you sacrificed and you hurt and you beg and you lust and you love and you ache and you want every bit of this to fulfill part of you.
02:09:40
Speaker
And it's the same thing with me. as It's like
02:09:46
Speaker
There are people that this is their job. This is their life.
02:09:55
Speaker
They don't think, well, it's the weekend. I got a couple of days with the kids and then, you know, I'm back to work and I'm doing X, y and Z, slaving away, hoping to God that life is little bit better. But for an artist, it's...
02:10:15
Speaker
yeah Hey, Stephen, I have an idea. hey Tom, what do you think about The Laughing Man? What do you think about... man, come on. The Laughing Man ain't so bad. What do you think about The Closer?
02:10:28
Speaker
What do you think about life? Well, you know, I've lived a little bit of life, and think you got something there. think you need to take... I think take some time. Take some time. Have ever seen this film called...
02:10:43
Speaker
Barbarian Queen. Barbarian Queen. Blood and Black Lace. Oh, you have? Well, do I got a pitch for you? oh you do? yeah I do. so Let's switch it up.
02:10:57
Speaker
Let's see what we got. have you ever ah flagged out half a screen of a light? Oh, well, no, but I'm willing to try. but I'll see what that means.
02:11:08
Speaker
And, you know. That's what we can only hope for as a filmmaker. Is the next film. Is the next film. There's no guarantee. i You know, there's definitely a
02:11:27
Speaker
pseudo-superiority that we would maybe hold because we have this idea, this hope, this...
02:11:39
Speaker
Status. um
02:11:43
Speaker
That because we've taken so long that we're a little bit better, that we're a little bit tighter, a little bit smarter. then you know i can't i don't think you could say smarter. Our Joes and Stevens and... You can't say smarter.
02:12:00
Speaker
And our Jared and Clarks. Oh, shit. Shit. it But no, there's no, there's no shame here.
02:12:16
Speaker
I think Jared and Clark deserve to be filmmakers as as much as we do. Oh, without a doubt. I think there, I think the Joe and Stevens and the Stephen Arpaz's and joe Greenling's and the Josh What's his last name? Arup?
02:12:35
Speaker
Arupis? Arup. Isn't it? Jesus fucking Christ. Josh! You know Josh from the podcast. God. Ampiro. That's his last name?
02:12:49
Speaker
Yeah. Something like that. Fuck. You know, I'm white. Give me a break. I own you. yeah here it goes but you know give me yeah but it's like all these people they love film they love storytelling if this was a job that was a reasonable to live they would be doing it yeah art you know we haven't had him on the podcast and you like keep saying that you'll have him on but Tommy Tuvok oh yeah when are easy when are we going to talk to this guy
02:13:26
Speaker
Whatever you want, man. We can set it up. I'm ready. i mean, he's an interesting guy I mean, he was a fucking Steven Spielberg hook cast member.
02:13:41
Speaker
And just that notoriety alone has made him a star in a way. Yeah, he was that kid. He was that kid, but not only was he that kid, he made films like Whodun Dunn It that premiered at Kevin Smith Film Festival.
02:13:59
Speaker
Sure, Kevin Smith. I mean, that name doesn't mean a whole lot these days.
02:14:06
Speaker
Yeah, his last film was...
02:14:11
Speaker
Clerks 3? No, it was that one with the kid, the young kid. Oh, yes. And that was pretty good. I did like that film. told you, i was like, if you guys like Kevin Smith, you're going to like this film.
02:14:23
Speaker
I mean, the ending, it was just like, oh, God, dude, you didn't have to go there. But like i I thoroughly enjoyed that film. It was kind of like Red State. What was that movie?
02:14:35
Speaker
You know, was just like the solid, tight little film. And then you're like, oh, yeah, that kid actor, he's a... Cousin of his wife-in-law and stuff. His daughter's fiance.
02:14:48
Speaker
There you go.
02:14:51
Speaker
But he was good.
02:14:55
Speaker
He was. And that film was fun. and it was lovely. Yeah, i love that film. It's a good Kevin Smith kind of film. If you like Kevin Smith, watch that film.
02:15:07
Speaker
I'm looking up the title. i mean, that's that's that's one director that we definitely aspire to, right? Because we're always bringing up Kevin Smith. And it's like, dude, if we could get anywhere near Clerks, I guess if anyone could get it anywhere near york Clerks, you know, that that was a special film.
02:15:26
Speaker
despite the time and everything, he hit the nail on that head for sure. Clerks is, is it's era defining kind of film.
02:15:38
Speaker
Cause it's like, Oh, you want to see what this era of filmmaking was? Check out Clerks. You know what I'm saying? And that's pretty fucking cool, man. To have that level of a film, I guess.
02:15:54
Speaker
Jesus Christ, Kevin, you've written a lot. But that's ah also why I say like the 90s, it's going to be that decade that I think comes around a little later because there was a lot of really good ninety s films.
02:16:09
Speaker
I mean, I think of the big ones like Pulp Fiction and stuff. But man, I remember when Pulp Fiction came out. It was just this cultural phenomenon with Quentin Tarantino at the center of it.
02:16:22
Speaker
I mean...
02:16:25
Speaker
That was fucking cool.
02:16:28
Speaker
It really was, yes. This is me just trying to keep Dead Air going because Tom is still on his phone. I think he's researching... The 4.30 movie.
02:16:40
Speaker
He's been researching the 4.30 movie this entire time. i think it is 4.30 now by the time he researched that. Oh my God, it's two. All right, let's wrap this up.
02:16:51
Speaker
4.30 movie. What about it? It was a good Kevin Smith. It was a good Kevin Smith movie. If you didn't like it, you just, you're, you know, you're a fucking pain in the ass.
02:17:04
Speaker
It was a fun, cute little movie. Don't think about it too hard. Cut.