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TSP Ep 146: Reflecting Back on Judging Shorts or Let's Turn the Mirror on Our Shit!
0 Playsin 5 hours
In this episode, Tom and Steve continue their discussion on the Temecula Valley Film Festival, coloring and lighting continuity in their film, then some other random shit.
So come along with us as we learn a thing or two!
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Transcript
Introduction and Apology
00:00:00
Speaker
All right. Oh, we got levels.
00:00:05
Speaker
Volkov versus Almeida. Almeida. We got our sports game in the background. And we just finished coloring.
00:00:19
Speaker
Yes. All right. So let's let's just jump in, I guess. Welcome, everyone. Your levels are low. You want them higher? Podcast about... I'll probably get louder as it goes. Because I'm high.
00:00:31
Speaker
Check, check, check, mic check. I ain't high. What are you talking about? Oh, I know what I want to do. Drugs? Well, welcome everyone to ah Twin Shadows Podcast. Podcasts about film, filmmaking, and filmmakers. Brought to you, as always, by the two ah smartest chimps in the tree.
00:00:48
Speaker
Tom and Steve. Hey, buddy. How
Film Festival Experiences
00:00:50
Speaker
are you doing? Steven just stepped out real quick. I guess I should start off by saying, everyone that ah listened to our last episode, which... ah was about the judging of the Temecula Film Festival. I think I want to apologize for being an obnoxious asshole. i was being a little too harsh. ah And ah yes, and Stephen, i yes, I love you, buddy. I'm sorry I was a dick.
00:01:15
Speaker
We will have you on to defend your terrible selection of films. Yes, we will have... bastard. Stephen Arpez, our good buddy, we ah he'll be coming on the show soon. to kind of We'll be talking about that a little more in depth.
00:01:31
Speaker
ah But we did just go to that film festival this past weekend. um So did you want to talk about that a little bit Yeah, definitely. Steven, thank you for inviting us and having us be a part of it, if you're listening.
00:01:44
Speaker
um It was really cool. We went to the Temecula Valley Film Festival, and it was held in one of the, what are they called? Revival Theaters? Is that what that was? Because they were showing like all sorts of movies, new stuff.
00:01:58
Speaker
Yeah. But it was really nice theater, really comfortable seats. It was nice. yeah I had a good time. i owe Jeremy like six beers because I stole it off their tab. yeah Brown people, man. you know We see a free meal, we go for it. man But um yeah, it was really awesome to see all those short films.
00:02:18
Speaker
And then, of course, seeing a bunch of other ones, too, that we didn't get the opportunity to to judge on. Yeah, it's definitely something I want to ask Stephen about ah because I feel like there were some of the shorts that we watched where I'm like, well, why weren't these a jury selected? Yeah, that'd be interesting. Because...
00:02:40
Speaker
not to I know I threw a lot of shade on the five films that we had watched previously, ah but there were some films that were like genuinely like just good and way better than the selection we watched. I don't want to disparage the those films too much because having watched them again in a theater, they did come off a lot better.
00:03:00
Speaker
I will say. yeah and Also, I think i was just I've just been in like a bad mood. True. Perfect type of judge. I can't. I going to say, i know ah you can probably echo this, but it's like everything has just been so fucking rough lately.
00:03:15
Speaker
um And I know like if i you just give me a little bit of that Jim Beam,
Networking and Filmmaking Trends
00:03:20
Speaker
the devil comes out. i mean, i don't know what else to say other than I'm sorry. thatt I don't mean to ah disparage other filmmakers or anything like that. I think a lot of jealousy also is kind of coming through just because it's like...
00:03:36
Speaker
When i I watched those films, none I'm trying to think if there was one that just had, that obviously just looked bad. But for the most part, like films nowadays, like they all look pretty good for the most part. Modern cameras and everything make things so easy. And then I go through and I look at Dickhead. I'm like, ah, these little fucking rectangles and this. like And I'm like, ah, dude, like, man, people it's like, this has added years onto us fixing. We got the issues they don't got.
00:04:07
Speaker
But, you know, also, I'll say in defense of you I mean, we fuck around and we talk a lot of shits. And we don't necessarily mean it. Oh, of course. Like, we talk with shit on Tarantino. We talk shit on Nolan, but.
00:04:19
Speaker
You know, it's not always that sincere. There's a playfulness we have that only we know of. And everyone else just has to follow along and accept it. Yeah, I hope. but But the festival itself was awesome. We met some awesome people.
00:04:35
Speaker
I did want to say, because you were talking about the films. You know, you're right. Like, seeing it on a big screen helps. It added a lot. um It was kind of interesting because maybe we were sitting too close to the screen.
00:04:49
Speaker
But I was noticing like the screen is a little beveled. Right? Is that the right word? ah No. Well, bevel is normally like the edge. The edge. Well, it's like curved. It's a curved screen, the theater we were at.
00:05:04
Speaker
And maybe that had an influence on it. But I was noticing being in a theater watching these films, I wasn't really seeing too much of frame left, frame right. I was very focused frame center.
00:05:17
Speaker
And I was like, well, shit, in Dickhead, we definitely play frame left, frame right a lot. So I was kind of curious, like, dang, I wonder how well that's going to read for people watching the big screen.
00:05:30
Speaker
You know, maybe we should have gone more frame center a little bit, just being in that kind of viewing environment. I think there is definitely an effort to...
00:05:43
Speaker
make frame center like more because ah just for the viewing angle and the audience. But
Challenges in Film Production
00:05:50
Speaker
honestly, I think for Dickhead and for other films in general, it's, I think this, I enjoy cinematography more that is not. That plays with the frame, with the frame. Yeah. um I mean, some of my, one of my favorite types of shots is like a split diopter shot. those Oh, you like those shots? I hate those shots. think they're pretty cool yeah um because they can, they can address, they like something in the story in ah in an interesting way.
00:06:16
Speaker
And I don't i think they' it's easy to overuse them. I think using one or two in a movie is okay. Most movies I don't think overuse it too much. yeah It's usually just like one shot because it's so noticeable too, right? It is very noticeable and it's such a film nerdy thing too.
00:06:31
Speaker
Yeah. But, you know, I was noticing that with the frame. So I would say, you know, suggest that to people like, you know, when you're doing your film, maybe sit in a theater, really see how viewing it on that screen, if that's how you want your film to be seen, if that's how it's meant to be seen, really kind of understand the dynamics of being in that viewing environment.
00:06:53
Speaker
Because that just stood out to me. I think maybe we were just probably a little too close. So I wasn't like noticing left and right as much as I normally do. yeah Because I tend to sit further back. going to say we were like a... I want to say like eight rows from the front. But like Katie said, you know, when you're watching stuff on your projector, you like to be... Right up butted against the fray or the screed. I like to be into the movie. like yeah it really For me, especially because I'm probably high, like if if I take an edible, and ah it's the world just melts away. And that's what i kind of that's kind of the goal I'm going for. You like to be enveloped by it. Yeah. And then it's like, okay. I mean, it's probably bad because I'm not paying attention to the kids stabbing each other to death or whatever.
00:07:36
Speaker
But it's like, if I really want to watch a movie, it's like, I want to sit like, essentially like as close as I can. Yeah. And then it big make it as loud as possible. Because then you just, you hear everything. And it's like, the environment's so rich. And it's like, chase the bad thoughts away. Movie, please. And then you watch something like, oh man, bad movie. badly then you're like, no. yeah Wait, the bad thoughts are back. And then you're like, well, watch Halloween 5.
00:08:02
Speaker
Yeah, Halloween 5, The Curse of Michael Myers. Oh, jeez. But yeah, so you know it was a really cool selection. It was awesome seeing it and on the big screen. um it it It got me excited for us to be like, damn, that's Dickhead on a big screen. Shit, I'm out of here. But
Critical View of Film Festivals
00:08:21
Speaker
yeah, I mean, it's such a ah a treasure for those filmmakers. And I can't wait for us to have that opportunity to see something like that.
00:08:31
Speaker
Maybe see the blemishes a heck of a lot more. yeah. you know That was cool. I'm happy for all the people who got to participate. um yeah i will say that was such a big thing.
00:08:43
Speaker
And this is huge for all you other filmmakers out there. You got to get to these festivals. I mean, just the networking alone. I mean, we probably met and talked to people um that we'll have on the podcast in the future. I know for sure two guests have already been kind of lined up. From the film festival? Yeah, Mario and um i want to, is his name Vince? Hold on, let me look. I would love to have Mario on.
00:09:11
Speaker
ah i was I was enjoying just talking are just listening to him. Oliver. Sorry. Oliver and Mario. um Oliver, he made, I think, the the best film um that we watched at the festival.
00:09:23
Speaker
Oh, really? i thought that which was the best Which Do Without You, I believe is what it was called. Something like that. um And that wasn't even in the – No. the selection to jur to judge. Yeah, it won the audience selection, though.
00:09:38
Speaker
Did it really? Yeah. Good for them. Yeah. Because he seemed very humble or modest about it all. And maybe like, I don't know, timid.
00:09:50
Speaker
Like, ah yeah, that's my film. I did it. you know It sucks. But it's like, no, dude, you did great. So that's awesome to see see him and his wife get Well, I got to talk to Jungle Boy.
00:10:02
Speaker
the fuck's Jungle Boy? ah Maybe you were a little blacked out by this point. But you remember the movie with the guy in the jungle that kept saying, T.S. Eliot, T.S. Eliot. Yeah. Vaguely. is he ah I think he was actually just ripping off Apocalypse Now, which is ripping. Yeah, he was quoting lines from. ah The Hollow Man.
00:10:21
Speaker
Oh, I thought he was quoting lines from. Apocalypse Now. No, um the jungle one. Heart of Darkness. Well, which is Heart Darkness. Apocalypse Now is an adaptation of Heart Darkness. Yeah, but I thought he was quoting Heart of Darkness. I don't know. Yeah. I vaguely remember that film. The Hollow Man poem from, I think it's T.S. Eliot that did that poem. We are the Hollow Men. We are the Stuff Men, the Horror, the Horror.
00:10:46
Speaker
And that's in the Heart of Darkness? Mm-hmm. Huh. That's cool. Yeah. T.S. Eliot, Hollow Men essay, yeah. Yeah, but whatever. um So you got to talk to Jungle Boy. I talked to Jungle Boy. I gave him my card.
00:11:01
Speaker
And I just remember thinking, it's like, oh, man, youth. Because when he was up there giving his interview, he talked about how he's like, I want to make films that piss people off and make the audience uncomfortable. And I want to do whatever the hell I want to do. And I just remember thinking, it's like,
00:11:18
Speaker
There's something there's something thing very beautiful in that ignorance, but at the same time, it's like, no one's going to work on your projects. like You better have some good friends. and i think Because I think about that now, and it's it's kind of shitty when to think that you really do kind of have to bend a little bit to the corporate or professional nature of things. Oh, sure.
00:11:38
Speaker
It's a business. Film is a business, and it is a very, very expensive endeavor. It's too expensive and ah of an art form to not be a business, unless you do something stripped down like ah Julian Sol Jordan. Yeah. you know If you do something stripped down like that, you can get away with a lot.
00:11:55
Speaker
But otherwise, if you want to have like your sci-fi story and make it look legit, and that's going to cost money, bottom line. Yeah. Yep, and then if it costs money, either you're going to have that money or you're going to have someone, going to have to sell it to someone to get it made.
00:12:11
Speaker
Well, my issue with his attitude, and and this is me kind of just going off of what you're saying because I don't really remember all that too well. You kept saying, I love Jungle Boy. Yeah.
00:12:22
Speaker
And I don't think that was his name, but we all I know is we kept referring to him as Jungle Boy. At the bar and in the in the theater. yeah He was like, I love you too, bro. I was buzzing at that point. I mean i was browning out.
00:12:35
Speaker
Well, Dan, we had Clown Shoes 2.0 was the 8-bit. Yeah, that 8-bit. My brain went 8-bit. It's still recovering. Okay, yeah I was browning out then. But, um you know, my issue with someone having that point of view is like, why are you so antagonistic?
00:12:52
Speaker
Against who? Like, who's your audience? Who do you, are you playing to like Republicans or something? Maybe we should go there, but you know, like who are, what crowd are you playing to where you're this antagonistic?
00:13:04
Speaker
um I'll tell you, I'll tell you exactly. He's an edgy edgelord. Yeah, right exactly. that's it And that's why, and that's why when Steven comes on work, I'm sure we're be talking about metal.
00:13:16
Speaker
um which we can talk about the titles now, right? You know have to bleep me. and Films have been, at least... They've been out there. Out there. Now I think we can go for some transparency. But, ah right, there's a film Metal that both Stephen and I are not, weren't, you know, in love with, but other Stephen, R.P.S. There were aspects of it that I loved. Yes. The issue with that film, for me, the most egregious thing was it just went on too long and it didn't really go anywhere. Yeah.
00:13:45
Speaker
So it's like, okay, you want this. Because essentially it's the story of a guy wearing a metal mask and then he gets free and he goes for a night out on the town and then he goes back home. It's like imagine Sloth from Goonies because right, yeah chained up in the basement. Yeah.
00:14:00
Speaker
We don't know exactly. We don't know anything about him. at every the The film is extremely ambiguous and on the nature of Metal Man, right? we an old An old lady has him chained up in her basement and he watches. And we don't really even need to know Yeah. No, we don't. yeah That's not important. But he watches um cartoons those old like Flesher and can't remember what the other guy's name is. But those old old essentially royalty copyright free and cartoons because that's probably what they could show.
00:14:34
Speaker
And ah he breaks out and he's wandering around Los Angeles. He wants to eat a cheeseburger. he ends up in a metal concert.
00:14:46
Speaker
Any metal concert where he meets this woman that falls in love with him or is him instantly- Are they just like friends? Attracted to him. Yeah. But in short, it's just a guy going for a night out on the town.
00:14:57
Speaker
Yeah. To not spoil too much. But- And like you said, it's perfect. It's like if Sloth got free and got to go hang out, um which is fine. You know, there there were some shots they did guerrilla style where they really had him walking on the street and you could see real people's reactions to it, which I thought was great.
00:15:16
Speaker
I did love that. And that's all you needed. You didn't need this whole story per se that – because it just dragged on so long. Like he's at a club. Now he wants a hamburger. He always wanted a hamburger. But now, he you know, it's like why are we going to all the – like shorten it.
00:15:35
Speaker
Cut out 10 minutes. You probably have a really tight, cool film if you just cut out 10 minutes because it it just went on way too long. And it didn't say anything.
00:15:47
Speaker
Yeah. Like, and we're we're on this journey, but why? What are you saying? What what are you getting at here? You're just showing – you're dragging it out. Yeah, for a movie – yeah, and that's why a shorter film would have sold – it being shorter would have sold it better because it's such a nothing burger.
00:16:01
Speaker
And I think that was ah the biggest issue. Maybe that's why he had the hamburger in it. think that's the biggest issue I had with almost all the films. Every film looked great. All the films had pretty decent sound.
00:16:13
Speaker
I mean, some some of the soundtracks were a little meh, but all right every film looked great. yeah like Every film had like pretty good set decorating. ah like Quality-wise, it was very serviceable. Yeah.
00:16:26
Speaker
And and you're I was like, wow, okay. This is nice. The production value in a lot of these films was great. like I'm thinking of the the drag queen, ah the misery one. oh sure, for that. Well, I was just thinking strictly of the ones we ah judged.
00:16:41
Speaker
But all of the short films were very well done. I mean, as far as quality comes into mind. But my biggest complaint, and this is what you know Steve and I always go back to, story, story, story. It's like...
00:16:55
Speaker
where's the story in a lot of these? Like, a lot of them even kind of felt like proof of concepts, which... Which maybe they were. Which is like, okay... If you're doing a proof of concept, cool.
00:17:07
Speaker
I didn't – that never came across that clearly to me. Well, even if it's proof of concept, you still have to have a beginning, middle, and an end. Yeah. You know? Like Rico is going to be a proof of concept, but at least we're trying to attempt a beginning, middle, and end. And I think that's important.
00:17:25
Speaker
Yeah. um But, you know, that's the issue with most short films. Yeah. You know, they're just not fully realized a lot of the time. In a sense, I almost think shorts are harder.
00:17:38
Speaker
um i I watch a lot of Twilight Zone, and I know Steven watches a lot Twilight Zone. And if you think about it, each Twilight Zone episode is essentially a 20-minute short film. Yeah. And it's like, damn. like The tightness and the execution on a lot of those episodes, it's like, holy macaroni. like these are They're good because you feel it right It's like they have their beats. They're still almost hitting like a three- or five-act structure. And then they have their little twist. They have their little...
00:18:08
Speaker
And it is well acted, all that kind of thing. And i think a lot of short filmmakers or people that want to make short films really need to like go and yeah study that kind of, I mean, to me, that's like the, right? The Tales from the Crypt, your Twilight Zone, your anthology series are.
00:18:28
Speaker
That's a great point. Like those would be really great sources to reference for this kind of thing because they move along so fast. But they hit all the elements they need to and then they stick with you.
00:18:41
Speaker
Which with this film or these short films, very little stuck with me.
00:18:50
Speaker
Yeah. Story. The stories is what will stick with you, right? Yeah. Strangely enough, I think Metal stuck with me the most of all the films. We said it twice. Probably. we talked about it the most. True. But also probably because it was the most...
00:19:06
Speaker
um distinct of you know I will it has metal has some absolutely gorgeous shots yeah it was it knew what it was and it held very tight to its voice yeah where other films drifted into like well we need this shot so we're just gonna shoot this serviceable shot there was one film there were a couple though that I thought were really bad that I don't really want to bring up because I know of the... i had talked with the filmmaker or the producer on that one, and and it's like, okay, i kind of see what you guys were trying to do, but like...
00:19:43
Speaker
It was just executed very poorly. And i can we can talk about it later if you want. but Yeah, in private. i mean, I think, well, execution's always key, right? like There's no really bad story. There's no really bad idea. It just gets lost in the execution, Because no one's really trying to come up with bad stuff, right? None of us are. It's just an execution where it falls apart. Jungle Boy is trying to come up with bad stuff.
00:20:05
Speaker
Yeah, maybe he is to be antagonistic, but still, he's trying to make like good- I'm just fucking around. but that No, but even with that kind of mentality, it's like, well, you're trying to do good, bad stuff, and that's fine. um Like dickhead, you know? there' There's so much bad in it.
00:20:20
Speaker
Where it's like, fuck. But there was always good intention behind what we're trying to do The thing I always think about, especially in terms of Dickhead, because one of the things I guess we can announce. Oh, yeah.
00:20:32
Speaker
We finished the color. the color grade is done Dickhead. Huge step. I guess we're one-fourth of the way ah done on processes. um Of post? Yeah, one-fourth. Sure. Yeah, because you know we I guess it's more than one-fourth because what editing's done and no color's done. But we have ah we had to finish VFX, audio, and title shot, credits. Title and credits. And then kind of like marketing, which I kind of put all in the same boat. mean, but like for actually the film being wrapped up completely, right? Well, then if we're talking about film being wrapped up, like, yeah, we're two-fourths of the way done, then sure.
00:21:11
Speaker
Yeah. Because yeah ah marketing and all that— Halfway done. We're halfway done. That's yeah a good way to word it. Halfway done. Post is half done. Yeah. Shit. Yeah. Took a while, but we're there. It only took years. But, you know, as we're going through— The shot, having the scenes be matched is huge, ah but it also makes the bad framed shots like stand out a lot more, I think. oh And that was one thing that I think was kind of jumping out to me, was it's like, holy shit, some of these shots are just fucking ugly. Like the shot of ah Suzanne walking down that hallway. Well, I will say, what she's walking down that hallway.
00:21:50
Speaker
The structure of that shot wasn't meant to be the whole timing of her like in the background and then coming around. It was mostly meant to be coming around but immediately in the in the mid to foreground.
00:22:03
Speaker
yeah And then that's where the shot is nicer. So but you know as we were editing we're hanging on longer here and there. So that shot is ugly but it's also a little unfair to it in the sense that it's meant to be like a mid to foreground shot not so much relying too much on the background.
00:22:23
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, but you know, like you said, too, with Summer, when we were working, like, so much of the walls are just white walls, and it's so boring and ugly, and there were so many just set design choices that were just so ugly. Yeah.
00:22:38
Speaker
And us not knowing enough to maybe just add a little accent light hitting the wall, just to give it some contrast. Mm-hmm. Not even colored. You don't even need a colored light. We're watching the fucking thing and never really dawned on me. We have these like string of Halloween lights, but we never plugged them in.
00:22:58
Speaker
And it's like that would have accented so much of the frame, like just having this little orange these little orange Christmas tree lights glowing. It would have added this contrast. Yeah, just broken up the image a little bit. Desperately needed, right? Yeah, just broken up that a little bit. Because it's like all you have is the ugly geometry of my house. Well, any house is ugly when it's like.
00:23:21
Speaker
not structured with composition in mind, right? Because it's not even having things on the wall. It's also like within the frame, you have to compose the set design. like yeah That's an element.
00:23:32
Speaker
And I will say that. And that's probably for Dickhead in particular, I will say that's definitely where we kind of let things slide too much. um like ah what we were like ah I think we were relut we reliant on people to do set design that I mean, we had nothing.
00:23:53
Speaker
We had nothing. Well, we were also doing set design because, you know, our set ah person, she just got tied up on the bathroom and building an entire bathroom in a garage. Yeah, so she wasn't never there. and Yeah, so a lot of set fell on us as a result, and we were like,
00:24:12
Speaker
I don't know, man. let We'll just use some lies. Or who gives a shit about the background? And and we really didn't apply enough respect to that. It it was a lack of respect, I think. Yeah.
00:24:24
Speaker
You know? Because we, like you said, we just should have put more time. That was probably one of the biggest ah areas we failed in. Because, you know, we failed in every area.
00:24:37
Speaker
But the failure was like, well, we didn't know better. We didn't know how. Whereas with set design, like legit, we just didn't put enough respect on the name. Yeah.
00:24:50
Speaker
You know? Yeah. i Because, I mean, i was to bring it back to the Temecula Valley Film Festival, watching these shorts where it's like, man, right you're right. Just having an accent an accent light or something. Because we do have nicely dressed a couple of nicely dressed sets.
00:25:10
Speaker
Yeah. like It's not all bad, right? its just The bad stuff, like ah ah it sticks out like a sore thumb. And that's what sucks.
00:25:21
Speaker
It's like Summer was saying like how nice and fun it was to grade Grace's scenes going through the house. Because there's like all this weird dynamic lighting. you have all these colors that you need to balance and play with. You got orange walls and orange pumpkins and blood on the table. And yeah and lights. and Which maybe... No.
00:25:44
Speaker
i was going to say maybe that made it worse, but no. Oh, shit, Batista. He got Nurmagomedov. Okay, sorry. Spoilers. Anita the head. Okay, I'm getting distracted. but You know, that's interesting. I wonder how that would have helped the grade because the biggest issue with our color grade is we used every light source available to us.
00:26:10
Speaker
So we had tungsten lighting. We had all LED d lighting. We had fluorescent lighting. All three of those, like when Summer was speeding up the scene in the kitchen, I don't know if you noticed, but you could see the banding from the fluorescent lights yep because of the shutter speed.
00:26:26
Speaker
Fuck. That's in two shots. That's in the bathroom, my bathroom, and then in the kitchen, which I never noticed in the kitchen. Yeah. But anyways, we have all these different light sources which are cast in a different ah color temperature.
00:26:39
Speaker
And so it's really hard to balance between all of these things because you have like one color source here, another color source there, and none of these are complementary. So I wonder like...
00:26:52
Speaker
I wonder if having more colored walls would help hide that or help to... Or if that one might accentuate that problem. I think all also, like you said, i think one of the big things, and for the filmmakers out there, you need to establish a continuity of lighting as much as a continuity of props and and editing.
00:27:18
Speaker
Stephen brought that up. You brought that up we were watching. you're like, damn, there's just no continuity of lighting. um Yeah, which, you know i you know, and that's something, too, because I never noticed that.
00:27:31
Speaker
Well, one, once cut once Summer ah color corrected and balanced and did all the... Then it's like, oh, shit. Now some of these blemishes are really standing out. you know It's like, oh, now we have a spotlight on a pimple and it's being noticed.
00:27:44
Speaker
But also watching the film sped up, it was like, oh, shit. Yeah, that's not matching. That's not matching. that None of this is matching. I mean, like continuity, that was... This is the first time I've noticed it This bad. Like I saw it a few times. Like oh yeah. A light's turned off here. And a light's not there. But this time it was like.
00:28:03
Speaker
Fuck. None of that shit's matching. You can definitely tell. When we shot during different days. Or a different time of the day. Like we weren't necessarily. You literally see setups. Respecting. We weren't necessarily respecting the movement of the sun, things like that, right? But also you're seeing light setups. You're literally seeing light setups from shot to shot where it's like, okay, well, now we got to fill this shot with light, now this shot with light, and none of that is having continuity between it. And i know – and films do – that intentionally sometimes because they're essentially trying to establish a mood or i have a something in the scene. And so sometimes we were trying to, and that's why a lot of people, ah old school filmmakers won't do multicam setups because they're trying to do very distinct lighting setups for that one camera. And you're not, and it's like, well if you shot it from this angle,
00:28:56
Speaker
it would be wrong. Yeah. And the the kind of the thing was, is you know, we we were just so wishy-washy on that in a sense, where it was like, okay, this was a very distinct lighting for this setup, but then he would I would be like, hey, i wanted I want a shot from this angle, and then somehow we would keep that, you know...
00:29:12
Speaker
I don't think that's fair to us. I think what the biggest issue was we only had a few lights and it was like we need it bright enough to lighten out this angle. yeah And so we made compromises on that a lot because because I was helping Charlie a lot for that and being like his assistant through that too.
00:29:29
Speaker
And i mean we just didn't have enough light output. you know We couldn't afford – The legit stuff you would actually use on set and were making like small lights light up an entire room. yeah And you're seeing those issues, you know, where we had to literally use the actual lighting in the house to feel to just give us enough light yeah for exposure.
00:29:56
Speaker
um So I think that's more it. like I think we kept pretty good on like, hey, I want a light here. I want a light there. And it's like, well, it's not going to work. And you'd be like, well, I know that. But it's for the effect.
00:30:08
Speaker
yeah And so I think we were a little more cognizant of that issue. It was just um you see the budgetary issues and the lack of the the inexperience play out with lighting continuity, which maybe is not a big deal.
00:30:26
Speaker
I don't think it is as big of a deal. i mean, we never noticed... I've never noticed until today how bad it was. Well, also, I think the movie is always... The lighting has been so... are the Essentially, we've been watching it so flat.
00:30:42
Speaker
Yes, um that's a good point. For the most part, we've been watching it on log, in log format. And with a bad exposure top of that. Yeah, a bad exposure on log format where everything just kind of either looked bad or it just looked like essentially this gray smud. all looked like shit.
00:31:01
Speaker
it all looked like shit And it was just the degrees of how watery and nasty that shit was. Yeah. And then we tried we colored in the shit with crayons. and Yeah. The thing is that I will say is...
00:31:14
Speaker
Some shots now just look way – every shot looks better, of course, because they're matching and they have color. everything looks good, yeah. Or not good. Everything looks better. And I think with Dickhead, the story of Dickhead has always been the tale of the two – the bell curve where we are – We're on the bell curve. We get a bell curve, okay? We can't have straight graded here. It's like – The good is really good, and the bad is really bad. And there's not a whole lot in between the bell curve. That's true. There's nothing nothing really serviceable. yeah It's either good or bad.
00:31:52
Speaker
It's either shit or you like it. Yeah, I always think when there's like a couple scenes where I'm like, wow, this was really well done. And then every bad scene is like, wow, this was really bad. there And then we tried to...
00:32:05
Speaker
Mix and match. to me it's like we've always ah My philosophy is always get in and out really fast on the bad. yeah Linger as much as you can on the good. And that's what we've that's our philosophy that we've tried to maintain.
00:32:18
Speaker
And hopefully it doesn't knock the film out of any kind of contention for its faults. Well, it will.
00:32:29
Speaker
Yeah. Because I always think about that too. The high end, like a Sundance, they're going to judge us on that because, I mean, they have, you know, $50 million dollars movies, $200 million dollar movies.
00:32:41
Speaker
Well, they also have 10,000 submissions. And 10,000 submissions. So, you know, like the higher end film festivals, yes, they're going to ding us. Because, you know, and this is an issue with stuff like Sundance. They're not trying to show Slacker anymore. They're not trying to show Clerks anymore.
00:32:58
Speaker
they They get films with that are more marketable than those. You know, so now we got to go to the mid-tier and then hopefully get in with a good mid-tier film festival. level I mean, we're going to try.
00:33:12
Speaker
of course, we have to. Like, we did all this. Like, yeah, let's try for Sundance again. Shoot your shot, yeah. But, you know, like you were saying Beyond Fest, I think Frankenstein was in Beyond Fest, was it, right?
00:33:26
Speaker
Yes. With the Pan's Labyrinth. Yeah. Del Toro premiered Frankenstein in that festival. It's like, dude, that's fucking huge. Well, we live in a world where Martin Scorsese can't get funding to make his fucking movies.
00:33:37
Speaker
And that's insane. And that's criminal. Yeah. I mean, if there's one who's someone who's earned their stripes, man. He gets a blank check. I mean, we live in a world where- i mean, maybe just cut back on the editing. you know We can shorten shit by a little bit, but- Yeah. You you don't deny that, man.
00:33:54
Speaker
No, right? And then you have... I think about um Warner Brothers just released one battle after another, which I went and saw at the Vista. um And i don't I think that movie's tracking to like maybe break even.
00:34:08
Speaker
Well, that's nice, because last I saw, they were going to lose... like $100 million on it. Over $100 million. and And maybe it's still going to lose that much. But i i I give Warner Brothers huge props for this. Because Warner Brothers is actually very well known for doing this. Because they did a lot of Kubrick films. They do a lot of the Nolan films where they essentially just write...
00:34:30
Speaker
These are tours or these just just these great filmmakers like Blink Checks like. That is pretty. Go make like go make your one battle after another pta like I know we know we're not going to make a profit off of it but it's good to have a ah great film in our catalog. Is that I don't know. guess. I can't. Maybe maybe if you look at the track record because like if you're producing a Nolan film it's like no we're going to make some money off of this shit. Yeah. Because you always make a profit.
00:34:55
Speaker
But no one's different. Has he ever made a profit? I think he has twice. Probably not. He's probably never made a profit. But then once it gets to the Oscars, his pictures are up for best picture, are best everything.
00:35:08
Speaker
And so then, you know, you get those viewers who come in and make it, turn it into a profit from there. I guess what I would like to say is I hope that's the case. I hope that's the case. No, I think you're you're right because, you know, Nolan's a big risk because it is he's an R2R filmmaker.
00:35:27
Speaker
Obviously Kubrick and definitely PTA. somehow Nolan always makes money. Like Oppenheimer made a shit ton of money. Well, Nolan, really I mean, credit to him. He knows how to balance... the general audience with the auteur audience. That's what I always shit on ah shit on Nolan for. You talked about how we shit on Nolan in jest a lot, but ah he necessarily he makes that he makes the dummies feel smart, right? Yeah. You watch Oppenheimer and it's like, you know, the cavemen go, oh, god good movie, good movie, the best movie I've ever seen. b Blow them up, blow them up.
00:36:01
Speaker
Yeah. Oh, boobies. Yeah. Thank you, Bronwyn. And then, you know, we watch it and and it's like, what are you doing here, man? He just makes the shit so confusing that the monkeys like, yes, smart, smart, Nolan, yes. I saw the top wobble. The top wobble. They're in a dream of a dream of a dream, Nolan. That's my dream. I'm so deep. Yeah.
00:36:30
Speaker
I'm as deep as the dream world. It's like, okay, Mr. Caveman. But if they see fucking Balthazar. Yeah. Have you seen Ventura? They'll be like, what the fuck? Yeah, they're like, that movie was slow and boring. That's when the ape turns on the master and just rips his balls off. Yeah.
00:36:46
Speaker
So Nolan's great in that respect. Yeah, yeah i always yeah he's like a bridge gapper. No, and that's that's why I like him so much. because you know Even Kubrick, I think, is a bridge gapper. He is. because He's just way better than Nolan.
00:37:01
Speaker
Oh, immensely. But Nolan leads into Kubrick. Yeah. you know And then Kubrick leads into every other great filmmaker. Fellini. Oh, dude, Fellini. Or Tarkovsky. Who is Kubrick's big guy? It was the guy that did M. Um...
00:37:19
Speaker
ah fri Fritz Lang. Oh, okay. I think that's the name is. Yeah. Yeah. Kubrick's all right. It's like, who was before Kubrick? It's like, yeah, you're Fritz Lang. And, uh, well, back in the day too, i mean, good. Howard Hawks. Everyone but back loves Howard Hawks. I think back in the day too, like good movies were a little more, um they just existed more like sunset Boulevard. You know, that, that was a pop film.
00:37:44
Speaker
Yeah. And it's a masterpiece. Whereas now, what, we the Literally, what's a popular film that's a masterpiece now? the Nothing. That's not fucking expected. I'm trying to think the last masterpiece I watched was probably Parasite. But I'm saying that's pop film, though, too. Yeah, because Parasite's kind of like that.
00:38:06
Speaker
Kind of, but it ain't like everyone's watching. Like Gone with the Wind. Everyone saw Gone with the Wind. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe the last one today is like Titanic.
00:38:16
Speaker
And then it's like, do you want to consider Titanic a masterpiece? I don't. I think that i So then what? There's like none.
00:38:25
Speaker
Big. A masterpiece film that is pop culture. That is the zeitgeist. None, dude. Don't exist. It's too segregated. It's too saturated.
00:38:38
Speaker
Too saturated. That leads to segregation. yeah But we just... and so The market is so saturated. um Yeah, like, holy shit. I guess maybe Tarantino, if you want to consider Once Upon a Time a masterpiece.
00:38:55
Speaker
and But even he never breaks into zeitgeist, right? He doesn't... He ain't hitting Nolan's no numbers. No. And Nolan ain't producing the masterpiece. Ah, Chazelle.
00:39:07
Speaker
La La Land. You think? I don't think that was that popular. It's pretty popular, dude. I think Whiplash is pop more popular than La La Land. La La Land's pretty up there, I think.
00:39:20
Speaker
I think La... I don't know, man. But okay, fine. Take La La Land off the table. Give me Whiplash. I mean... But then... No, it's got to be La La Land. Whiplash ain't that popular.
00:39:32
Speaker
think Whiplash is popular than Land. But I mean with the general audience. I don't know. With the zeitgeist. I'm not a general audience member. I watch Popo. Oh, yeah. I judge films at the Temekula Valley Film Festival. That's right. I do. I judge them well. I give a lot of ones.
00:39:44
Speaker
Yeah, you do, man. You impress me… It was the podcast when you were on your own. Oh, yeah. And you were just discussing films. And you're like, oh, it's like this film and that film. It's like, Jesus Christ. so I have no idea what the fuck you're talking about. But it's like, shit, you've seen some movies, dude. I watch a lot of movies. You've seen some movies. But you don't just watch. You like. Because, I mean, I've watched Super Mario Brothers and Frozen 100 times already.
00:40:09
Speaker
ah But you actually go out there and watch films that I would never watch. Your favorite. Yeah, you're like to find those films, but also like to find like your um double indemnity. Like, yeah, I mean, that's a more popular one.
00:40:25
Speaker
Like it's on Criterion. Yeah. But you've seen it. I haven't. Our Cat People. I would never have seen that film until I got recommended it. And then I told you about it You're like, oh, yeah, that film's amazing.
00:40:38
Speaker
And I finally watched it. Oh, you watched it? What do you think, Cat People? It was all right. i didn't think it was that good. No. Yeah, I didn't think it was that good. you Really? You guys really raised the bar because you and my mentor ah talked about it so highly. But I will say the thing I loved most about it was the play of light and shadow. Yeah, dude, the suspense. It's a master of suspense, that film. Yeah, definitely.
00:41:06
Speaker
When she's walking down the street, come on, dude. A Jaguar Knight is an indirect. A Jaguar Knight, don't even touch that. Okay, let's not go there. It's an indirect. Cat people's levels above. Influence cat people, right? Cat people's levels. Levels, levels above that. the thing I love about cat people in particular is just the sense of paranoia in the film. There's just like this constant feeling of dread the entire movie. Yeah, it was a bit. And it never really lets go until the very end. Yeah, was a dour film because it's just like no relief.
00:41:40
Speaker
i don't think there's any moment of relief in that entire film until it ends and then you're like. um But the thing I loved most about it was a play of light and shadow. Just the way they were using objects that you didn't even know what they were, but just the silhouettes of them and using that and within the composition of the frame, it was like.
00:42:01
Speaker
It's an education. This doesn't exist anymore. Yeah, it's an education. But as far as a story, a film it within itself, I'm like, eh. Yeah, that's definitely its weakest aspect. I mean, it's like, bitch, you ain't going to turn to a cat. Oh, wait. You you did. You literally did But it was made in the 30s.
00:42:19
Speaker
Yeah. So it's like, how hard can I be on like anything? like The talkies barely came out maybe four years before this film up premiered.
00:42:30
Speaker
So you got to take that into account. But you know like Cat People is better than any film I've seen this year.
00:42:40
Speaker
Yeah. For sure. just It's better than any film I've seen this year. I would say One Bad Author or Another is the best film I've seen this year. without It's not even close. But I haven't seen that film yet. Yeah. yeah you know um best But that's the best because I haven't seen 28 years later yet.
00:42:56
Speaker
I need to get I need to watch. I really do. don't know really good. don't know why I haven't watched yet. It's good um But is it better than cat people? Probably not. Probably not.
00:43:07
Speaker
There's something about modern films that I just find so cringy and awful. And I don't know really what it – it's hard to put your finger on it, at least for me. No, it's not. I can tell you what it is. It's the modern language of filmmaking, right? the How long you can let a shot hold.
00:43:24
Speaker
um The framing. The lighting. you know It's the modern language of filmmaking now where it's just very TV-y. It is. like um We had talked about this a little bit. Maybe we can talk about it right now. but you Fuck, you fell asleep, so maybe you don't remember too much. But we talked about caught stealing the new Aronofsky film a little bit because you had fallen asleep while watching it. No, no, no. Sophia cried. oh that's what it was. So I had to go babysit her. And so I only saw like the first...
00:43:53
Speaker
I saw, well, I don't want to give spoilers because it's new, but I saw like the first 20 minutes maybe. i don't think him getting beat up is a spoiler. happens in the trailer. All right. Well, Austin Butler gets beat up.
00:44:06
Speaker
And that's where I saw it too. But I will give credit to Aronofsky. I mean, he's a great filmmaker. I think he's, I would say a master filmmaker. Maybe that's too much of a stretch. No, he's not a master.
00:44:21
Speaker
i think he is. I think Requiem of a Dream and Black Swan are pretty fucking good. He said the fountain's your favorite film. he's got great movies. All you need is one, dude. No. In my opinion.
00:44:32
Speaker
To me, no. All you need is one. Because to prove you're a master, you have to repeat. Oh, fuck that, dude. That's science. Night of the Hunter is the ultimate counter to all of that because that motherfucker only made that one film and that's fucking masterpiece. Yeah, dude, because fucking he was an actor.
00:44:48
Speaker
But that's a masterpiece. Yeah. it no no No, no, no, no, no. I'm not saying it can't be a masterpiece. ah But I'm saying, I think it's Charles Lawton that maybe directed that movie. But the thing is, ah to be a master filmmaker, you have to have a repeatable knowledge. so like Every now and then, right?
00:45:10
Speaker
like Miracles do happen. I mean, every time a film is made, it's a miracle. But what I mean and what I'm bringing up... is this idea that PTA is a master, right? He's got a Kira Kurosawa is a master. Billy Wilder is a master filmmaker. kierra Quentin Tarantino is a master filmmaker because, and while, well, maybe, I don't know. Cause the thing with air, no, Aronofsky probably is, he's got Requiem for a dream.
00:45:41
Speaker
He's got the wrestler. He's got the fountain. um
00:45:48
Speaker
He's got Black Swan. you know Yeah. I don't know. It's tough. It's tough out there. And it's even I think it's even tougher now because, like Stephen had mentioned, the language of film is just different. And it's just... I don't necessarily...
00:46:08
Speaker
connect as much when i was watching caught stealing my a lot of the issues i had was um i didn't love the camera work um i wasn't a huge fan ah of these like extreme tight close-ups um i think close-ups i mean i know you watch you watch dickhead and you'd be like how can the fuck you're the director of this movie how the fuck can you say you hate close-ups every other shot's a goddamn close-up but we had to use close-ups to cheat You know who doesn't have to use close-ups to cheat?
00:46:37
Speaker
You know who loves close-ups? Darren Aronofsky. This guy. Yeah, because you're a photographer. But what I'm saying is like, thank you, buddy. That's so true. ah But close-ups, man, they destroy this the the scene. in a set not they Not necessarily the scene, but they destroy the set.
00:46:56
Speaker
Because close they wash away everything around the character. And when you're spending all this money and intention on having sets, it's like when Kubrick put the fucking the can of...
00:47:10
Speaker
you know, corn with the Indian on it and the shining or whatever. And everyone's like, that means he's Indian barrel ground, blah, blah, blah. Right. And it's like that kind of shit. It's like when you have a closeup, you lose all that. You lose a lot of that because every closeup I've ever seen is always the same, right? It's shot on the the shallowest depth of field that can possibly shot on.
00:47:29
Speaker
And it could have been shot anywhere. Yeah. And that's what I don't like. But that's also nice to cheat. Which is what I'm saying is we use a lot of close-ups to cheat. No, but you know what You made a really good point where you're like, well, you're a photographer, buddy.
00:47:42
Speaker
And that's so apt because, you know, in photography, I like that close-up. I want to put that bokeh. I want to blur out that background that makes a beautiful photograph. And so I'm coming at this film with the mind of a photographer.
00:48:00
Speaker
And even though videography and photography are very much... ah run parallel to each other, they're different. Because there's just a difference when you see an object moving within the frame and that's what you're capturing as opposed to just a snapshot.
00:48:17
Speaker
And so, yeah, you know, in my photography brain, the close-ups, that's what you want, dude. You want that close-up. But in the video in the video frame, it's like, yeah, not really. I don't necessarily want that close-up unless I need it.
00:48:30
Speaker
I want the wide. I want to see actor. don't want to see their face. Yeah. i don't want to see their face Whereas in the photograph, well here's when I want to see their face. And here's my other argument. Because a face – well, because a face in a photograph can tell you so much about a person. Yeah. Whereas – because you can't see them moving and expressing themselves. Yeah. Whereas within the moving frame, you can see – you get the privilege to see that recorded.
00:48:55
Speaker
My thing is, the reason why i don't love close-ups is... I want to... like a close-up. Sometimes you need a close-up. You'll see. yeah I want to see the world.
00:49:10
Speaker
Right? I want to see... This is why I love Malick. Terrence Malick. Yeah. Just give me the fucking big, wide... Big, wide open shot. like Just give it to me. I want to just see...
00:49:24
Speaker
yeah You know, and I think a lot of people, they are they take like probably the wrong cue from Terrence Malick. And this is me being snobby asshole. What do you mean by that?
00:49:35
Speaker
You always see when someone says like, oh, you know, I'm going to go for it. And it's like, it's always the same shot every goddamn time. What's that? It's a big empty field with a single tree. Yeah. Oh, photographers love that too, dude. There's a single tree. There are no trees around it. Photographers love that. The field with that single tree in the middle. Oh, we love that. And there's a guy walking up, a guy or a girl, your character whatever, walking up to the tree. and they're like, oh, look, the beauty, the majesty. I'm like, I've seen that shot a million goddamn times.
00:50:05
Speaker
And it's like, you know, ah ah you know be due to this podcast and... And the the the list, the criterion list, I've still never watched a Tarkovsky movie.
00:50:18
Speaker
Oh, I finally did. I've always seen those screenshots. I've always seen the screenshots of like Mirror and Andrei Rublev. I thought you saw the one with the house burning down. No, I've not seen that one.
00:50:28
Speaker
So you just saw the scene? Yes.
00:50:33
Speaker
Well, it must be it must be a great scene because when you described it to me, it was very powerful. Oh, I watched the clip and I was like, fuck, why can' why am I not watching this? I was like, wow, that's… No, yeah. okay I think that's Mir.
00:50:47
Speaker
ah But yeah, I've never actually seen the whole movie. i've only You fucking cheated. I thought you saw the whole movie. No. Because I saw ah Solaris. Yeah, it's not on the list. It's a free one to watch. been meaning to watch that one You watch that one. um And it's just so interesting to see that juxtaposed against 2001. And it's like, well, who's better?
00:51:10
Speaker
Maybe neither.
00:51:13
Speaker
But it's just so interesting to see that juxtaposed. Because i've never seen I've never seen a sci-fi film like that, what Tarkovsky did. You should check it out, dude. yeah It's worth it.
00:51:25
Speaker
Because there's some shots where it's like, wow, that's beautiful. And then there's some stuff where it's like, oh What? The liberties you can take in filmmaking, it's quite beautiful. You just have to know how to stitch scenes together. Oh, yeah. That brings me back to the point I was trying to make about the tree and the field.
00:51:43
Speaker
um It's not that those shots are bad because I do think that there's a – we talked about how there is a visual language. Well, they're beautiful. It's it's a beautiful shot. It's a shot that it's like you see it. you But it's overused. It is overused because it's so – Beautiful. It's so beautiful. And it's so – it's like, okay, let's show isolation. Let's show the beauty of nature. the Right? Yeah. Bam. Give me a big wide with a field that has a single tree in the middle. It says a lot.
00:52:14
Speaker
Yeah. You've seen it a million times. But you know who who ah really captures those fucking beautiful big wides? Terrence Malick. Terrence Malick. And he has this understanding of the visual language of film. Like I always think of... um Days of Heaven, right? it's the Is it Days of Heaven or Heaven's Gate?
00:52:30
Speaker
No, Heaven's Gate was... The other one. It's Days of Heaven. Heaven's Gate is the Richard Gere one. Dude, Days of Heaven is just...
00:52:39
Speaker
Or are even the Thin Red Lion, remember when we were watching that? yeah I mean, Terrence Malick, like... like people People shit on him. My mentor shits on him, but... I just see these...
00:52:51
Speaker
Moments where he just hangs on something that might be irrelevant to the film but just has its poetry. He's more like a poet filmmaker than like a Kubrick. And for me, I will say, I know' i can't really comment on Terrence Malick too much because I've only seen, i think, those two. We've seen lot, dude. We saw Badlands. We saw Thin Red Line. We saw Days of Heaven. Yeah, but I've never seen- haven't Tree of Life? Nope.
00:53:17
Speaker
And I've never seen Night of Cups. I never saw, what's the his Pocahontas movie? Yeah, i never saw those New World. Is that what it was called? Those two I haven't seen. I haven't seen that one. I haven't seen a lot of- see I've seen a lot of Terrence Malick. I've seen a lot of- Randomly.
00:53:32
Speaker
The movie i movies that are masterpieces on, Tree of Life is on the list, so it'll be one we watch. I wasn't a big fan of it. I didn't really care about it. But Badlands, dude. I think about Badlands a lot. I think about Days of Heaven a lot. See, and that was a pop film.
00:53:45
Speaker
That was a pop film was Badlands. Badlands? Yes. I fucking love Badlands. That's popular film. And it's like, dude, you guys had Badlands? Even Thin Red Line was a popular film. It was in theaters. That's where I saw it. Movies like Badlands are why I want to be a filmmaker.
00:54:00
Speaker
But is Terrence Malick getting any fucking theaters? I mean, he had Tree of Life, but no one saw it. no one That's why i was saying like the Knight of Cups, he did that with Ben Affleck. Like no one saw that movie. Like that movie was not in, ah because it's with, no, it's not with Ben Affleck.
00:54:17
Speaker
Yeah. Isn't Christian Bale in Christian Bale. Ben Affleck's in the other one Isn't Andrew Garfield in one of them? I don't know. I think so. He does a lot of films that no one sees. i was going to say, he's done a lot of movies.
00:54:29
Speaker
Maybe I've even seen more Terrence Malick than I know of, but... I have, and... But I never knew, you know, growing up. i was like, oh, that's that motherfucker? Okay. But you know just going back to this visual language of film, tying that back into, I guess, going back to Dickhead and um the Temecula Valley Film Festival to kind of like talk about how... Yeah, let's finally wrap up on the Temecula Valley Film Festival. Yeah, so because we're going to talk about it a whole lot more, so stay tuned.
00:54:58
Speaker
But, I mean, how how was it for you overall? It was great. What was the experience? It was great. I... i I'm remiss to say that we don't do this more often. I mean, we have very busy lives. And we enjoy it every time. And every time.
00:55:15
Speaker
I mean, even if it's as little and shitty as Green Jack Film Festival where there's four people and we're just. But, I mean, we even still had good conversations with people that were just there. i loved it, i I love it every time. The Beyond Fest that we went to. Beyond was awesome. Every time we do this, it's like, fuck, why?
00:55:35
Speaker
Filmmakers, you got to get out there and do this. You need to be getting out there and and seeing what's coming out, but like not necessarily like what's coming out on what's being purchased and bought. like I know that's probably valuable. It's good to watch new movies.
00:55:51
Speaker
But damn, get out there and talk to these filmmakers. Like I had a couple of great conversations. Like Oliver was, he was great to talk about. i remember Stephen kept saying like, well, how much you fucking get made doing a set dress on Criminal Minds? And he was like, well, I don't want to talk about it. And you're like, bitch, you better fucking give me a number.
00:56:08
Speaker
Did I that? Yeah. And then he was like, well, okay, okay, okay. Like I can make $10,000 in a day. what shit Fuck. Yeah. He was like a couple of thousand to $10,000 a day, depending on union, non-union, whatever. Wow.
00:56:25
Speaker
And I'm just like, we're in the wrong business. We're trying to get in. But you got to make that hustle, right? And that hustle's hard. The hustle. Because it's like, yeah, you made $10,000, but maybe that's the only project you're getting that whole year that's going to give you that money. Maybe you only made, yeah, exactly. Maybe you only got on set three times. Guess what? I make a lot more than $3,000 a year. but But, you know, that was one of my gripes about all of this.
00:56:46
Speaker
When I kind of thought back about it and I came away from it, it was like, I'm out here to make films. And one of the things I fear are that just I don't like about the film festivals is it felt like a scene.
00:57:03
Speaker
It felt like I was a part of a scene. It was like, I don't want to be a part of a fucking filmmaker scene. i don't want to be a part of any scene. I want to make a fucking film. I don't give a shit about what you guys are doing or about being cool or anything like that.
00:57:16
Speaker
I'm here to to work. And that's why we're so much better. yeah but but But I did kind of catch that where i was like, oh, this kind of feels a little bit like a scene. Like if we were to go to more film festivals, we'd see a lot more of the same film filmmakers.
00:57:31
Speaker
And then kind of just rubbing shoulders like that. And maybe you need to, to kind of network and get in, which we don't know how to get in. um but that But that was something that... Because I was a part of that. you know I used to go to...
00:57:47
Speaker
Pappy and Harriet's a lot. And I was getting into that scene of musicians and rock stars who who didn't make it but had kind of achieved some level of... Local fandom? No, i' bigger than that. Like a lot of the musicians I was hanging out with, they had been on like The Tonight Show.
00:58:06
Speaker
um David Letterman, they were like on public or, you know, syndicated television. Like they were... big, but they just didn't quite get over that hump to be like superstars.
00:58:20
Speaker
It was like, oh we're trying to be superstars, but we didn't make the hurdle. the vines? Yeah, the vines, shit like that. and so And so I hung out with that and and that was cool because it was the scene.
00:58:35
Speaker
But then at the end of it, I was like, well, no one gives a shit about me. And I was just a part of this scene. And it was so vapid. And I went through that because I was i was hurt. you know i was like, well, why aren't you talking to me anymore? i was like, well, you ain't cool no more, dude. like You were cool for that five seconds. Now you're not.
00:58:53
Speaker
That's a trap for sure. Yeah. And it was like, man, I kind of feel that same kind of vibe going on right now. Yeah. which I don't want to be a part of. Well, when we had, ah sorry to interrupt, but when we had Cargill on, right, he talks about how it's like, oh, I'm in this group chat with all these indie filmmakers. And like and we talk and we all and we're always all talking, blah, blah, blah, blah. And it's like, oh, it's like a club.
00:59:17
Speaker
Yeah. It's like a club. and And the only membership is you have to essentially be popular enough to have been noticed. Yeah. Yeah. It's like you didn't necessarily have to make a great movie to get into the club. Yeah. And it's like, I don't want to be in your fucking club.
00:59:32
Speaker
I want to hang with Tarkovsky, the dead motherfuckers. That's my goal is to be there. Yeah. Am I going to be there? Probably not. I want to drink box morere i want to drink box wine on Charles Bukowski's grave. Yeah, dude. Like that's the shit I want to be a part of.
00:59:46
Speaker
um so that So that was kind of my negative um But that's natural. View of that? It's natural. are my My apprehensive um impulse to that, not to say anyone was like phony or negative or bad. I mean, these were great times. Hanging out at Green Jack was a great time. Going to Beyond Fest was a great time. Like I fucking loved it.
01:00:11
Speaker
Yes. And seeing these films that no one else is going to see and giving them their time. Like I did love that, you know, because that's one of the positives of seeing going to these film festivals and seeing these films as a filmmaker.
01:00:27
Speaker
We're seeing our peers. Yes. You know, and it's like, okay, I'm at this level. You're at that level. I need to get to that level. Like, That's good to see.
01:00:39
Speaker
um i just, for me personally, I don't want to be a part of that scene. I don't want to be a part of any scene. Just let me do my shit and go home. Yeah, you have to safely dip your toes into the scene. Because you can get caught up in it, man. Because it's so fun and it's so much access to who knows what. Imagine if we were hanging out with Tarantino on PTA. Yeah. What would we be up to? We'd be licking toes with? Oh, we'd be doing lines of coke off of Margaret Qualley's toes. be sucking on Uma Thurman's toes with Tarantino on the, you know.
01:01:11
Speaker
He'd be like, you get the pinky, I get the big toe. Yeah. It's like, okay, I'll be relegated. And it's like, yeah, I'll do it but Daddy, you want me to suck the toe? But then before you know it, you have a dick in your ass and is you're looking behind you and it's Weinstein.
01:01:25
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, well, I think it's even sadder than that. because Well, that mean, that sucks, of course. you don't want it Well, that's bigly. You don't want a Weinstein dick in your ass. it's It's more like, oh, we don't care about you anymore because you're not providing anything, exact any value to us as a whatever. And that's the gros that's the vapidness of it that's so gross because it's… It's very transactional. Yeah, it's so disposable of human it's to where it's transactional. And that's why you should join Twin Shadows Podcast Club. $16.99. You will never be transactional here. I promise you that. We will always, we will never give into the money. We won't go to Riyadh Film, our comedy festival. And we definitely won't go to the Riyadh Film Festival, no matter how much they offer us.
01:02:13
Speaker
I was just thinking about that because ah there were ah Saudi Arabia is starting ah a studio, a film studio. Saudi Arabia, dickhead to the dickity. We're right here. Al-Aqbar, my brothers.
01:02:26
Speaker
I may be Syrian, but you can ah you know I can kill women with and gays with the best of them. I'm big and strong.
01:02:38
Speaker
i kill them all. do you want me to kill, Osama Bin Laden? i kill him, brother. ah Sorry. ah But I get what you're saying.
01:02:50
Speaker
And I think, of course, right? Like, it's so ah it's so natural for humans to break into those tribes. Well, it's also fun. it's Yeah, of course it's fun, right? Like, we had a great time. It's fun to have friends. We really had a great time.
01:03:06
Speaker
um I wish I spent more time talking to people. But, you know, I i wanted to hang with Katie. Yeah, that's fine. But...
01:03:17
Speaker
Because you were hanging out. Also, it was cold outside. You know me, dude. I got to be where it's warm. He's got that lizard heart. I'm a lizard, dude. He's cold-blooded. I'm out, bro.
01:03:30
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, you know, I don't want to underscore it and sound negative because I had a i had a blast. and i i wish I wish I could go back in time and relive it and just enjoy it more and not be so drunk.
01:03:44
Speaker
Because, you know, when I brown out, because I didn't black out. But you know, when you when you lose time like that, it's like, oh, fuck, man. I lost l Jungle Boy. You know? like i want I want that. yeah or even Green Jack. I got so fucking wasted and blacked out on that shit. like I don't remember shit.
01:04:04
Speaker
I remember we were sitting next to ah the filmmaker that made Jackknife and his wife. And we were talking with them. and They're Canadian. and we were talking about stuff.
01:04:14
Speaker
we're talking about stuff And it was like, damn, dude, I just love talking to filmmakers. That's why I love the podcast is because I just fucking love talking to filmmakers. Well, it's fascinating too, like just to see their struggles or just to see the problem they face, the equation they face and how they solve it.
01:04:32
Speaker
and and ah And I've said this, I probably said this before, but man, I just, I really love passionate people. Like I'm very attracted to passionate people. Yeah, it's infectious. It's like, man, when you and when you talk to somebody that really loves something, it doesn't matter what it is. It could be golf. It could be, yeah you know, butt sex. I don't give a fuck what it is. Like, whatever you're passionate about, like, I want to, like, know about it. I want to, like, feel your, like, almost like a succubus. I want to, like, absorb the energy of your passion. Like, give me that passion. like That energy. You feed
Passion for Games and Film
01:05:04
Speaker
off that energy. Yeah. like my heart is racing. Like I want to do it And then it's actually when you put a bunch of God. The thing about filmmakers is they fucking love other filmmakers. Right. You know, that's that's an interesting thing because I think you and I mirror this where we really adhere to very like top of the top.
01:05:22
Speaker
For instance, Starcraft. You're into StarCraft. You ain't watching Joe Schmo doing it for content. You're watching the top tier StarCraft players. And there's something um absorbing about that level of um excitement and and energy to that. You know, like same thing with Magic.
01:05:44
Speaker
you know I love seeing people who are like, yes, this little thing, i am like the best, the most passionate about that. and i love It's engrossing. i I always say this because I know we could talk about magic for a while, but essentially you know the whole controversy of universes beyond, it's like I just want good magic. I just want to watch good magic. I want to watch good players play good magic. magic yeah um It's like, yeah, you can put anything on that card, but make it good.
01:06:14
Speaker
yeah but then also it's like come on man like yeah i mean i'll get fucking spider-man out get final fantasy out of here lord of the ring okay because that's well that that that's the impetus that's the progenitor of all fantasies so i was like okay you could give respect to that yeah but there's like have one fantasy story before lord of the ring since beowulf right it's like oh dude could you imagine that'd be so cool yeah dude fucking give me bellwulf why is there not a bail bail wolf universes beyond i mean they're doing avatar next it's like fuck dude fuck off man fantasy ff fucked everything up we're going on a tangent but ff really fucked everything and i was so upset about it i mean i that's my favorite video game series it's such a that's what makes me a gamer is final fantasy it was like being stabbed with a knife that makes you feel good
01:07:05
Speaker
But you still die. Being stabbed with a knife and the asshole that makes you cum. And you're like. um yeah Yeah. And you're like, I feel like so many emotions because that set was so good. It was a great limited set, wasn't it? It was so fucking good. Like every time there's a flashback for the Final Fantasy set, I'm like, oh, God damn it. Here goes on my gems. Yeah. Although I've been winning a lot on the flashback sets because I think bad players play them. Tarkir's out.
01:07:30
Speaker
Oh, is it? Well, it was. don't know if it still is. Because it was... It's only like a week, right? Last week it was... No, it's been the Modern Horizons. Did it change from that? ah Yeah, Tarkir.
01:07:42
Speaker
Okay, because I hate the Modern. I don't like Modern. ain't going to do Modern. don't like Modern. um i only there's only There's only been two Modern decks I've ever liked. Tron. Yeah, Tron's cool, though. ah Because it's like, okay. And then... ah um What's the... The Tarmogoy deck?
01:08:01
Speaker
Oh. The Delve, the Dirge, Dirge deck. Oh, yeah. um You know i'm talking about? ah It's like a Delve, de Dirge. Well, I like... It's like a graveyard deck where you just like throw everything in and you like great bring Gristlebang out. I love that. I love that deck, dude. You bring Gristlebang out and you draw seven cards and then you die. Well, also like it just dumps all your graveyard on the battlefield and you just win. Yeah.
01:08:26
Speaker
I love that deck. What the fuck that deck? That was a deck I liked too. I think it's Delve. Delve something. Or Dirt. Something like that. Yeah. I'm i'm a little drunk. We've been drinking. Yeah, And I'm hopped up on caffeine too. The other one I love love a lot personally is um Death and Taxes.
01:08:41
Speaker
Oh, you like to that one? I love it, dude. Did you like the Lantern deck? No. Dude, I got beat by the Lantern deck. I hate the Lantern deck. got ah for the modern ah PTQ.
01:08:55
Speaker
Someone played eggs against me. I don't know if you remember that deck. It was basically play all these artifacts that do nothing. And then at a certain point, they just make you – they just win. Yeah. don't remember how they win. Oh, I played against it. I remember I i had to make the guy explain it to me like three times. too. And I was like, okay, I need you to play this out. And then he's like, I do this. I do this. And then I win you against you. and it's like, can you go a few more turns? Because I don't quite see it I'm like, hi okay, I'm playing affinity.
01:09:28
Speaker
kill my ravager. concede. I still got things on the board. It's not Ravager. I can't remember what that is. No, yeah, Ravager. Yeah, Ravager. That was an affinity card.
01:09:40
Speaker
Yeah. Because it's like equal to the number of artifacts that you have. Maybe in the graveyard or on the battlefield. I don't know. But it it like kills you.
01:09:51
Speaker
Yeah. Ravager just kills you.
Journey of Making 'Dickhead'
01:09:53
Speaker
Anyways, okay. Let's get away from magic. Oh, sorry. Okay. No one knows this shit except us because we're those kind of nerds. Well, well you know, this is what I'm talking about where it's like, dude, we're just passionate, very passionate people. There's passion about that, yeah. i mean, like, if we weren't passionate people, we wouldn't been able to make dickhead for 10 years or 11 years or however many years it's going to be. and I mean, thankfully, it looks at the end, the the light at the end of the tunnel has shone bright.
01:10:18
Speaker
shone bright um And the the biggest thing, and this is, i probably want to, damn, I wish I could like talk about it and then remember that when Steven gets back to ask him the question about is the thing ah from the impetus of Dickhead, it was always like, hey, we're going to make this movie so that we can learn how to make movies So that we could actually make the the movie, like a like a great film. And it's not that we weren't trying to make Dig Head a great movie. We tried our fucking hardest to make Dig Head the best movie. But we had no idea what we were doing. And I think um getting close to the the end on this and kind of like...
01:11:09
Speaker
And not just the end, because we could have finished Dickhead eight, nine years ago. It just wouldn't have been anything. it i don't even think... It wouldn't have even been tubie kind of thing. It would have been bad. And baby that maybe that's that would have been okay if we had had had some assurance that we were going to do something immediately after that was...
01:11:37
Speaker
great but when we really wanted to put everything into making dickhead even though as we said from the beginning and this is the kind of what i wanted you to comment on there buddy is like the idea when we started dickhead was like this was going to be the movie that taught us how to make films and now we're getting to the point where
01:12:03
Speaker
we're going to be done with the film. Yeah. And now it's like, well, now we have to put that knowledge and experience again to the test. And i don't know if that is that, is that Rico or is it?
01:12:18
Speaker
No, you know, i think it's interesting in the sense that I think it's going to go out with a dull thud, all of this. Just being done with Dickhead and even a jog at night.
01:12:30
Speaker
Because how much time we've devoted to it with color. And then it's like, yeah, well now we're done. Bye. Yeah. And i don't know. You know you want like a grand ceremony to accompany all of this. And there's just not.
01:12:48
Speaker
I think for us... The film will be not Rico or anything like that. It's going to be Bobolowski. That's where we're going to really put it. And we got to be a lot more critical.
01:13:00
Speaker
And then that will be a great short. or That's where we need to make a great short. And then from there, it'll be the anthology film, most likely. And then after that, it's going to like, well...
01:13:13
Speaker
Is there anyone there who wants to now invest? Because you have your films. I think you have a few scripts that you have ready to go. And I'll have at least one script ready to go. And it's like, you know, hey, we're we got this.
01:13:30
Speaker
Do you want it? Do you want to fund it? Because it's not going to get made out of pocket. There ain't no more pocket. and And I don't know, man. Like,
01:13:41
Speaker
I don't want to just make short films just to make them. I'd rather just tell a story and I can do that just writing. Yeah. And I'm fine with expending myself there.
01:13:55
Speaker
So, i you know, i it's going to really go Bobolowski and then we see what happens from there.
01:14:05
Speaker
But... And, you know, this is a scary part, too, with what we do because... We talk to people, we give them a little nugget of truth of what we're doing, and then they're all on board and they're so excited. they're like, yeah, man, I think you have so much potential. I think you're ready.
01:14:24
Speaker
And it's like, man, what the fucker, what are you talking about? like How can you say all these, how can you give me all these compliments when you don't really know what, what we were presenting. as They saw Temecula Valley Film Festival movies. No, you know, and I completely you agree. But that's the scary part. The scary, dude. It's like, are you for reals or are you just fucking trying to get something here?
01:14:47
Speaker
This business is full whole of snake oil salesmen. Mm-hmm. Full of charlatans and conmen. It's Paper Moon, man. I mean. And they're all selling us Bibles. and they're all and they And they got shiny Bibles, and they got the best Bibles you've ever seen. And guess what? And they'll even give it to us on a discount. Yeah, that's right. I only give it the discount just for you.
01:15:10
Speaker
I don't give it to anybody else. Just you. And that's the
Realities of the Film Industry
01:15:14
Speaker
scary part, right? Because it's like, yeah, I want to believe you. I want to drink the Kool-Aid. Yes. But I also know it's like yeah the Princess Bride. Which cup is poisoned? It's like, I know one of the cups are poisoned, but is it the one I'm drinking or the one you're drinking?
01:15:30
Speaker
yeah And I don't know. It's just there's a scariness to all of that.
01:15:37
Speaker
But you know I have faith in what we're doing. you know There's always been that belief in me, even though the podcast is an antithesis to it, but the belief in me that if you build it, they will come.
01:15:49
Speaker
yeah And if we make dickhead, we'll have something. We do the podcast. We have nothing. ah We've been doing this for, what, six years? Longer than that.
01:16:00
Speaker
Eight years? Probably something like that. And where are we? You know, just staring and talking into the void, you know, showing a movie into the void.
01:16:12
Speaker
And and well mean i don't know, you know, it's like, I want to believe I'm special. I think there's that. I want to believe I'm special. I'm making something special. But, you know, how many others have made something special and then nothing comes of it?
01:16:27
Speaker
You're right. And ah well in regards to the podcast that we're on now, I will say... We both, I think, can acknowledge that there are things that we could have done to accelerate the growth. Oh, yeah. um and if If this was the focus, it would be much different. Yeah. And to me, it's always been about the education for us and essentially like document.
01:16:53
Speaker
It's literally a, we have, what, hundreds, if not thousands of hours of us working just i'm trying to wrap our head around one thing filmmaking at this point i see it as as something for our kids like a little time capsule for the kids to be like this was my dad oh this was my dad oh god so this is who he was but all but it's also like well yeah this is who we were as this is what we were this is our dream this was what we were like hey look this is
01:17:26
Speaker
And yes, right? There is, it's never been about popularity. Like you said, like joining a scene. Cause we could do that. We could go down and we could. Very easily. That's the scary part. We could go and drink the Kool-Aid. It's fucking tempting, man.
01:17:40
Speaker
Right? That Kool-Aid got sugar in it. I could start painting my fingernails and I could start, you know, uh, sucking dick on Sundance. You can? Or not Sundance. Uh,
01:17:54
Speaker
What's the street I'm thinking of? Sun Valley Boulevard. Sunset? Sunset. Hey, you might suck Brad Pitt. Hey, buddy. Well, if you're willing to do that, let's have a bigger discussion after this. Look, here's what I'm talking about. is like mean There have been opportunities, right?
01:18:14
Speaker
i Fucking... i ah Not Dennis. What the fuck was that guy's name? Danny Vermillion, Vermillion, Donald, Danny.
01:18:27
Speaker
What? Darren. What's the guys that we interviewed? That was in that movie, the Green Knife movie. The Green Knife? What? The Green, the Jackknife movie.
01:18:41
Speaker
He was on our podcast. right it was when The guy who creeped you out. It was when worlds collided and we realized. Yeah, that that creeped out and you're like, I don't want this kind of guest.
01:18:51
Speaker
Yeah. Because he was like, hey, we I can i can take meet you. You guys can meet the right people. We can do the blah, blah, blah. And it's like, ah dude, I don't want to be like sucking Tom Arnold's toes. are You know, the good and the bad of us. What was that guy's name?
01:19:08
Speaker
I don't remember. Probably shouldn't say it. But… DV. The good and the bad of us is like we've been abused. So we're apprehensive to anything that's going to get us abused again.
01:19:20
Speaker
But that's kind of good because there's so many fucking bad people in this industry. I mean, look at Harvey Weinstein. He's like… Or look at Bill Cosby. You know, he was like the dad everyone wanted.
01:19:32
Speaker
And then you find out like, oh, dad raped every woman he came across. That's dark. Still the dad I want. sorry.
01:19:49
Speaker
Too good, man. And cut. No, I absolutely understand. And then... And that's why we've always, i mean, we've tried to organically grow everything and it's like, damn, dude, the soil's rotten. Man, buddy, I love you, dude. I'll say that, man. I love you, man. I love you too, buddy. The soil's rotten. That's the shitty thing because it's so full of shysters and um and shit like that. Like, it's so hard to cut through. Well, people who want to be a part of that scene, right? And if you're in that, really in with that scene, you're making money and you're getting, you're getting to fuck whatever you want.
01:20:25
Speaker
You're getting, you're getting access to whatever you want. Mm-hmm. And that's the scary part. It's very scary because holy shit, dude. Well, it's tempting. It's the devil, You know, it's literally, it's tempting. It's like shit, man. it like satan It's Satan with his hot hand around your throat whispering in your ear. ear around your cock.
01:20:43
Speaker
Drinking you off, you know? And it's like, oh, yeah, I like i like it when the hand's hot. And, you know, it's like you want to believe all this shit because, God, i yeah know I've said it a million times, but, like, when we were up in Big Bear,
01:20:59
Speaker
just working in the cabin. oh yeah And you're like, if if this was our life, like just making movies like this, god damn it would be a good life. yeah It'd be a great life.
01:21:10
Speaker
mean, it'd full of stress, but also at the same time, it's like, you know we when you step back, it's like looking at your kids, when you step back, it's like, damn, that's cool. we got the I mean, it's stress, but stress is everywhere. I got stress at the job I'm working now, and I don't have the same fulfillment. If I'm going have stress, at least let me feel fulfilled. Grateful. At least let me feel grateful to have this stress.
01:21:31
Speaker
Right. There are people— ah Cargill exists. like He's out there. He's making movies. Black Phone 2 just came out. not going to watch it, probably.
01:21:42
Speaker
but I mean, I'll see it eventually. I'll see it on VOD. I'm not going to go to theaters. Sorry. Yeah, I'm not going to theaters. He's making movies. have no interest to see that on theaters. Our boy, Lucky McKee.
Artistic Aspirations and Challenges
01:21:55
Speaker
It's like, yeah, he's just scraping by sometimes and things are tight for him and his family, but He's still got to make his movie. dude he's making He's still making movies. He made it. Old man.
01:22:08
Speaker
He's still got to make that. and It's like damn dude. That's all I want. you know i I don't know. you know We got a struggle. And it's like, well, if I got a struggle, at least let it be something I'm passionate about on.
01:22:22
Speaker
And you know I'm fortunate where I'm at within my job where there's a lot of fulfillment um and a lot of privilege because I can like work on our shit while I'm at work.
01:22:35
Speaker
So there's that aspect. But like you know i want to make...
01:22:44
Speaker
I want to put a stamp on things to be like, I was here. Here's my little contribution to the planet. Yeah. Maybe I made... ah Hopefully, I made the planet a little better.
01:22:54
Speaker
And it's in the arts. And it made just someone forget their life for a few minutes like me. Just to give back in that way. Yeah, dude. I would just... It's almost like loving it's like paying it forward. It's like, okay. Yeah, paying it forward. I watched Badlands, and it made me like fucking... Dude, that movie be fucked with me, man.
01:23:14
Speaker
Badlands really fucked with me. are than you know i ah be ah Sorry. um Before Sunset. Those movies fuck with me, man. They almost make me suicidal. Like, seriously. like I'm like, fuck. Badlands?
01:23:27
Speaker
yeah yeah there's It's like movies like that where it's like... i want him I need to make Badlands. I need to make Badlands. Okay, yeah, of course. Those are masterpieces. And that's what we want to achieve. But you know, like.
01:23:40
Speaker
It's like, have you ever seen a really beautiful woman And it's like she makes eye contact with you. and then she gives you like this tiny smile.
01:23:51
Speaker
She's just being polite. And then it's like your whole life with her flashes in an instant. Oh, that was me in Japan. You see, i means so i mean, we have beautiful women around us now because they might listen to this. So, you know, yeah it's like, yeah, beautiful women around us. But it's like you understand. you I know you understand what i I'm getting at here. Well, it's that Chase...
01:24:12
Speaker
Once in a lifetime encounter, the before sunrise. Yeah. Where it's like, you just randomly meet this person. Here's a safer way to say it. There's this romanticism that you're chasing. Attached to all of this. That's like, damn, dude.
01:24:27
Speaker
The romanticism of art to where you can create something that has value to others and- legitimate value to others where it's like this thing has made humanity better like the great poetry the great writing the great shakespearean plays like of course these are the masters but you know to be a part of that collective and advance humanity in that way because you know i was i've been thinking about this a lot because i'm on reddit and there's so much cynicism you know and you see it
01:25:04
Speaker
displayed with like the drop in um people having kids because there's that sentence of why would I want to bring a kid into this world and it's like yeah I get it like this world is fucking ugly like Israel is just destroying Gaza and eradicating Palestinians after they survived the Holocaust. You know, what greatest greatest hypocrisy and ugliness in that.
01:25:28
Speaker
To literally just turn around and do what was done to you. You know, like, what ugliness. Because there's such ugliness in this world.
01:25:40
Speaker
That even you might enjoy. Like I have UFC on the screen and, you know, I'm watching two women beat the shit out of each other and i love it. but I would argue, though... But what I'm saying is... Those are... But there's there's just as so much art in the UFC as there is, it right? but They're beating the shit out of each other. They're physically hurting each other. Yes. But it's for sport and... They're warriors. Yeah, exactly. There is honor in being a warrior. Oh, absolutely. Mushashi. Miyamoto. Yeah. a Book of Five Rings. Like, don't... You can't tell me... Like...
01:26:14
Speaker
Right. Just because it might make some people uncomfortable, the idea of physically harming other people. It's like, we've been, this is life, man. We're humans, man. We kind of love it. The reality of the universe is- But that's what I'm saying is like, you know, we eat each other. you can Yeah, exactly. You can see existence as so ugly where we do eat each other. You know, like a baby elephant will be devoured by hyenas if possible. Yeah. Yeah.
01:26:39
Speaker
And it's gruesome and terrible and painful and the most atrocious. There's no words to describe the abomination that that is. yeah It doesn't matter how gentle and innocent a baby is. The ocean will still drown it. Yeah.
01:26:54
Speaker
But also on the same token, like we've made jazz. Like jazz exists. We've made where we can just listen and hear like boom do do do do di do do and like groove to that.
01:27:06
Speaker
We've made all that jazz. Yeah. Like that's a human thing. That's another movie that made me want to kill myself. There's there's a a beauty to this existence that exists. Like jazz doesn't have to exist.
01:27:20
Speaker
But it does. And that's pretty fucking cool. You know, it's it's kind of cool when I go on YouTube and I type in like creepypastas and I'll get like a really good reading of a creepypasta with like sounds and all that shit that I enjoy. And that's wonderful to have that. Like we do also have that.
01:27:41
Speaker
ah contrary to the darkness. You know, the light is there contrary to the darkness. Like, we're podcasting. we're We're not in a fucking cave having to kill lizards just to survive, you know, starving to death. Like, we get to podcast. And the fact that humanity has created podcasts...
01:28:01
Speaker
It's kind of fucking cool, man. It's great. you know And to be a part of that larger collective of just making art, like to make a film that might resonate, that's a very beautiful and privileged thing to be a part of.
01:28:15
Speaker
Absolutely.
The Beauty and Brutality of Art Forms
01:28:16
Speaker
And you know that that's what gives me real hope and and even the real desire. Did she knock her out? Jesus Christ. Yeah, know, right? Is even a man?
01:28:29
Speaker
What is that? Oh, it's over? Mm-hmm. but You know, so funny. These are the two sides of the coin of UFC, right? Ugly and hot.
01:28:39
Speaker
but Holy shit. It's like, get out of here, hot people. You already have it good enough. I know. I fucking hate... There's something about beauty that you just want to destroy, right? Yeah, because it's like... white Also, they have it so fucking easy.
01:28:58
Speaker
I see the way my beautiful friends are treated. It's just like... What about me? Why am I left out? Ain't nobody ever done, you know, everyone's like, oh, you got charm. You got charm. That's all I got. Does it get me anything else? No, we don't want to get too close to mean, there are like nine lucky charms, you know? I only got one of them.
01:29:20
Speaker
Shit. She ain't that hot no more, though. oh Oh! Yes! She became champion. Yes, Mackenzie Dern. Yes, yes, yes, sir champion.
01:29:33
Speaker
Oh, man. Hell yeah. Oh, I love this. Oh, I got to watch. i got to watch the replay on this shit. She got beat the fuck up, too. Dude, look at her. Oh, my God. Her eyes are almost closed. She looks like an NFL player's wife.
01:29:46
Speaker
that's Hell yeah. Mackenzie fucking Dern. Yes. Congratulations. Okay. See, you know, people talk shit on the UFC, but this is one of the rare sports where they highlight the women alongside the men.
01:30:00
Speaker
Fuck yeah. Hell yes. I am happy. Okay. Sorry. Back on. back Back on track. Temecula Valley Film Festival. What did Porkin say?
01:30:12
Speaker
yes Stay on target. Stay on target. Stay on target. I think died recently. Porkins? Yeah. I think he just died. there I'm surprised he ain't dead already. Porkins ain't too much. Porkins. What a name.
01:30:27
Speaker
That's a genius filmmaking right there. But Temecula Valley Film Festival is fantastic. The other thing I wanted to get into was coloring. Yeah. That was a big thing we did just earlier before this.
01:30:40
Speaker
And I think that's where kind of the hyperness is coming from in this podcast is the fact that we finally finished that. A major step. It feels rare in the history of Dickhead to actually have finished part of something.
01:30:57
Speaker
And it's like, no, one aspect is just done. Yeah. and and And not just done, but to elevate. Yes. you know And then after we did coloring, it was like, while you're here, let's keep working. And so we worked on audio a little bit to get the audio team what they hopefully need to finish.
01:31:18
Speaker
And just listening to the audio work they did, and it was like, damn, this coupled with now the picture? It's like, shit, I can start to see it coagulating. you know i can see it coming together and being this little thing.
01:31:36
Speaker
And, man, I mean, once we have VFX done, coloring coloring is done, but once VFX is done and audio is done and it's all put together with everything, all the elements added to it, it's like, damn, we've got a finished film.
01:31:54
Speaker
yeah And it's a finished film that we've never seen before. Because I hear the audio playing. You know, it's new. It's fresh. Because we worked so long on our temp sounds. Yeah.
01:32:07
Speaker
That we've never seen this new version. And to see this new version gaining its own life. And like your we were talking about as we were working with these teams. It's like, hey, we kind of made Neo Giallo film.
01:32:21
Speaker
You know, we got this Neo Giallo going on just by randomness. Yeah. And to see the film taking on this entirely new form from us, separate of us, because we didn't intend for it to be a giallo.
01:32:41
Speaker
No. And to see it like naturally becoming this thing, it's like, shit, I've never seen this film before. And this film is a film. you know Despite its rough parts, which it has, but it's becoming this this thing that before This Frankenstein before our eyes. Really?
01:33:03
Speaker
And it's... I don't know. It's just... ah It's a beautiful and fortunate thing. It's miraculous. Because when we talk to like audio, like i was talking to Pad, she's like, yeah, man, I want i don't ever want to.
01:33:19
Speaker
I mean, maybe she's blowing smoke up my ass, but she's like, yeah, I want to keep in touch with you guys. i want to hopefully work on more projects. And with Summer, it's like, yeah, Summer, I want you definitely on more projects. I mean, you're awesome. Yeah.
01:33:34
Speaker
You did so much for this film. you know like he went above and beyond. And Pat and Adam and John, they went above and beyond. And that's the thing. And to see what they're creating. you know like last We tell them, like we want to we want you guys to take your own take run with it.
01:33:54
Speaker
And that didn't happen with anyone. It's like, well, we need to refer to you. But still to see their input. And to see how that's getting away from us. And this is what I love. And developing into its own thing. And that's what I absolutely love about Summer was she pushed back.
01:34:11
Speaker
hu She was like, no, you guys. This looks like shit. This is as good as you're going to get. Trust me. And that's the best thing, right? Because it's like, yes, I want you to push back because...
01:34:25
Speaker
I'm only one person, man. I only know so much fucking shit. You know all everything. You know this pocket. and And I need that expertise. And also, we want... I'm like, why are they slapping each other? It's power slap. That's literally what they do. They slap each other to knock out. I'm like, what the fuck am I watching? Jesus Christ. That's owned by the UFC. Oh, that's Paige Van Zandt. I want to see the over-the-top version of power slap.
01:34:52
Speaker
I'm a truck driver. What do you do on the side? i slap grown man. It's like fucking over the top. Yeah. I'm a truck driver. What do you do I'll arm wrestle.
01:35:03
Speaker
I'll wrestle you. You know, but the over the top thing, it gets crazy because it's like they kidnapped this kid. it's like And then he cheats. Because every time I arm wrestle and I do the over the top where you go over your thumb. Like, no, that's cheating, that's cheating. I'm like, crunk, I win.
01:35:21
Speaker
yeah That's a great movie. it's I mean, it's a piece of shit, but that's a great movie. The 80s, right? but Pieces of shit movies that are great. I mean, the wonderful thing about like working with Summer and Adam and Pat and John is as much as we push them,
01:35:44
Speaker
They've pushed us too. And we hope... The hope, the goal, dream, the...
01:35:55
Speaker
Whatever, is that we Accomplish something better than what look ever thought possible. I mean, it's been such a goddamn rollercoaster with dickhead.
01:36:07
Speaker
I mean, the lows have been low. The highs... i mean, I wish they could have I could say they were higher, but... Fuck. The dream is that I mean, realistically, are we going to be better better than a directed to be kind of movie? I don't know.
01:36:25
Speaker
I want to hope so. I mean, we it's like. we I hate I hate it. i hate so much because and maybe I hate is a strong word, but.
01:36:41
Speaker
So many people are like, I've never seen a movie like this. And it's like, I don't know if that's good or bad. But also it's like, man, this movie is fucking personal to me.
01:36:51
Speaker
porta i mean it's Just the writing, the story, everything. it's like I hope it resonates. i mean, I don't know. i really don't know. I can't predict the future.
AI's Role in Art
01:37:03
Speaker
God, what i i mean I would love for some goodness to happen. i mean I'll pay it forward, Jesus. I'll pay it forward every day. ah i'll work no I want nothing more than to see everyone succeed. I am not selfish in this manner. i want everyone to be good and to succeed.
01:37:24
Speaker
and you know Sure, i'm I'm not a perfect man. i get jealous. You know, I watch Metal and I see that goddamn shot over the 110 and I'm like, man, that's a great. I'm sorry, Bespoke.
01:37:34
Speaker
I ain't sorry about that. yeah Bespoke. i i We can talk about Bespoke if you want. because i No, we'll save it for Steven.
01:37:45
Speaker
Because I will say one thing one thing about Bespoke. is like It's like we've seen this story before, but way better. We've seen every story before. like How many original stories do you see? It's pretty rare.
01:37:56
Speaker
It's very rare. I mean, how many times can you tell the hero's story? Yeah. i mean It's not about necessarily retelling something that's never been told before, but really just presenting in a way that hasn't been seen before. and you're Well, it's about presenting it in a in a your own way. Yeah.
01:38:15
Speaker
Because the uniqueness isn't in the story. It's in you. Yeah. Because, you know, and this is a funny thing. i We could talk about this a little bit too, I guess. is You know, a lot of people are like, oh, AI is stealing. It's stealing. It's stealing from other people's art.
01:38:32
Speaker
but it's like that it's just what art is we are all an an amalgamation of everything we've ever seen and heard and done yeah yeah right it's yeah yes and no how how is that not the case Because we're not Tarantino. So we don't just bundle it all up and represent it. We add our own unique spins, like our individual life experiences that we live uniquely present themselves. For instance, Dickhead.
01:39:05
Speaker
We can talk on that because we're experts in that. It's a ripoff of Halloween. Yeah. But... We added our individual experiences of dealing with women and men dealing with women in that perspective.
01:39:23
Speaker
And then that's where we add our own uniqueness that might make, that makes retelling the story feel novel, perhaps, hopefully. But that's, I guess- And that's unique to us. Yeah. Right? That's our unique experience portrayed.
01:39:41
Speaker
My argument against that, it's you know I don't want to necessarily defend AI too much here. It's more just I am appreciating the irony because that's essentially what AI is, except it's not a person.
01:39:56
Speaker
Yeah, so it's literally, it's its own unique experience from its training on other things. It's not copying anything because it's everything it makes is unique.
01:40:07
Speaker
But see, like, yes, maybe we are doing the same thing if you want to be that cynical about it. It's not even cynical. It's just technicality. Okay, but maybe you want to be like that in regards to an individual human being.
01:40:19
Speaker
But there's instances and moments that we experience that will never be duplicated in in any form that are unique experiences that we've had. Of course. Like, for instance, you know, seeing your first child born.
01:40:37
Speaker
You've seen that a million times on TV, but there's nothing that can express what that experience was uniquely to you. Yes. That we both shared, not that we had the same kid, but like… In our own experience. our own way, in our own experience, these unique experiences to us that are shared, and then we ah produce that in a film.
01:41:01
Speaker
But that's my argument for AI. But AI doesn't have its own unique experience. But it does. No, it doesn't. It has its own experience extrapolated from every other experience. But that's all experience. No, we have unique experiences. I can put you in a locked room.
01:41:18
Speaker
That'll solely be your experience. But what I'm saying, okay, i guess I guess I let me boil it down like this. The way that these language models and everything are trained is almost kind of like how human brains are trained.
01:41:34
Speaker
And that you just shove a bunch of shit at them and it comes out with a new thing. Yes, but we we are a part of the external world where there are things that are expressed upon us that we have no control over.
01:41:50
Speaker
You did not choose to be born in the high, or not born in the high desert, but to live in the high desert, oh to be in the high desert. This is the outside world being pushed onto you where you have to work the job you have to work and commute yeah drive you have to, like that's a unique experience. But what I'm saying, that is my argument push our team my argument here is it's not that much different from what it's doing now. And I understand, look. Yes, it is. Dude, there's no AI that's getting like what it's like to drive from the high desert to Pasadena. If it's reading my story about it, it might. No, it's not. But there's not enough information there. I'm saying is it's like it's a new it's a new type of thing.
01:42:32
Speaker
u hu It's a new type of thing, and and it is it essentially it models and it expresses itself in a lot of similar ways that humans do, yeah which I think was unexpected in terms of art. Well, i don't think it's that unexpected. I mean, it's built by humans, so it's going to express itself in a human humanistic way.
01:42:54
Speaker
And what I wanted to say was I think there's just a lot of irony there because of how the vitriol against AI, the use of AI in just in general by artists. because it's a cheat code.
01:43:05
Speaker
It is. Right? You could get to god mode in an RPG if you grind hard enough. But you could also get to god mode in an RPG if you just put the game genie and put all the fucking ultimate weapons in your arsenal. I guess what I want to say about that is...
01:43:23
Speaker
Like, World of Warcraft was special because you constantly grind it towards the god mode. Right? But only that when you played World of Warcraft and you had, like, I don't know if you ever did the betas.
01:43:37
Speaker
I love doing betas. And I'd get all the god mode items and I'd go out there in my fucking battlegrounds. And it was fun, but it wasn't like the grind, man.
01:43:50
Speaker
Well, the difference to... It's the journey. Well... And a AI doesn't make a journey. I know. it's It's an extrapolation of everything that it's of all the journeys that have been fed into it. And it's always the beginning of the end point is already established where with us, there is no end point yet.
01:44:10
Speaker
Like there is no end point to dickhead yet. yeah It is that journey to it that's taken 11 years. All I'm saying is, dude, just keep open mind, you know? im just saying, look. I do. i think, you know, I've talked to a lot of artists who are just completely anti-AI. And I'm like, eh, there's a lot of shit you don't want to do in art that AI can shortcut you.
01:44:31
Speaker
Like keyframing and compositing. Like if AI can keyframe a scene... Can composite a scene? Yeah. Because that's going to take me fucking hours and it might not even look that good.
01:44:44
Speaker
This is what all I'm trying to say about AI is I think it's one is that you're not John Connor. It's not giving it's not given essentially the credit it's due because we are specious in the sense that it is a new intelligence creating things out of our control in a sense because when you put in that prompt you have no idea what it's going to make. war um We're making an apex predator, right? Yeah, essentially. But I wanted to... don't even remember why I brought it up.
01:45:17
Speaker
But it i it was just something I had been thinking about quite a bit because I'm so fascinated by the hate of it. That is say interesting. I have two i have two two two minds about the hate on AI. One, it's like, you're not better than AI, so you hate it.
01:45:36
Speaker
Because if your art was undeniably better than ai no one could deny it. I don't think that's true. Because part of the problem is, is like well, guess what?
01:45:47
Speaker
You're not that much better than it, so companies are going to use it because it's cheap. And that's what sucks. Yeah. Because it can replace you, sure. Yeah. And then the other thing... a whole better than... i don't know.
01:45:59
Speaker
I don't know about that part of the argument, but the overall premise of the argument, yes. I can agree with you. And then the other thing about it is there's just this... ah It's absolutely just a specious thing. It's like we only want things made by people.
01:46:16
Speaker
And I think that's funny because... Fuck it, people hate on other people's art so much. And it's just, I don't know. I just, I think find the whole thing fascinating. Well, that AI video I showed you was pretty funny, wasn't it? It was hilarious. Where like there's a dog having a fire hydrant out of its mouth and shooting a woman away.
01:46:40
Speaker
I mean, I was like, shit, this is funny. Like there's some AI videos that I saw that genuinely made me laugh. And it's, you know, because people were saying like, AI is just producing slop.
01:46:52
Speaker
And it's like, well, maybe. But that slop's kind of funny because American funniest videos, that's slop, I guess. That's the irony. That's the irony. AI's just producing slop. You're making slop too, bitch. Exactly. I fucking read you know i listen to a lot of books. This slop can make a dog have art. It can make Donald Trump shoot a jet of shit on everyone. I listen to a lot of books because of The Drive and a Commuter Everett.
01:47:19
Speaker
And every now and then I'll i'll ah try to get ah a recommendation for an audio book.
Societal Reflections in Literature and Film
01:47:25
Speaker
And like it'll be I'll try to listen to something new or interesting. And it will be, oh, you got to listen to this. like The audio narrator, everything was so good.
01:47:35
Speaker
But the story itself is so dog shit. It's overwrought. It's bad. It's shitty. And then I'll go and I'll listen to what I let's just listened to, Breakfast of Champions by Kurt Vonnegut.
01:47:47
Speaker
And I'm like, yeah. Everyone else sucks. I've never even heard of that book. it's It's an interesting book. Yeah? Yeah.
01:47:57
Speaker
It's about, but there's little short story that I love ah in there because. You're a bigger Kurt Vonnegut fan. I like Vonnegut. I'm not a big Vonnegut fan. He's such a satirist asshole and I love it. Well, I mean, he went through fucking World War II. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Yeah. So that's essentially what Slaughterhouse-Five is, right? Yeah. little bit of his experience about that. Well, let's Fire bombings? Rotterdam. Yeah. The Rotterdam Airport.
01:48:28
Speaker
Rotterdam? Yeah. Because I know the U.S. did bombings that were like way worse than Hiroshima and Nagasaki. it was just like... Mm-hmm. The difference is one bomb versus 5,000 bombs, I guess. Yeah.
01:48:42
Speaker
But ah there's a short story in Breath of the Champions that I love. when heat it's like because it's set the He always inserts himself as a character in the book. Kilgore Trout is his representation as an author in there. But then he also put himself in there literally like as God.
01:49:01
Speaker
Ger von der Gale. Sounds like an artist. Where he talks to himself as the writer. and ah But regardless, sorry. There's this short story he talks about the nature of humanity. And he's like, ah there's this alien species that's observing you know the planet Earth. and He must have liked that, huh? That humanistic h um observation.
01:49:25
Speaker
Yeah. so he So he's like, okay. Oh, he loved he's a big sci-fi guy too. I think he're just right he he he just loved to write about aliens because it's like a good way to make fun of people. Yeah, it's a good metaphor to examine humanity. the story is this. There's like this alien species that's observing Earth and they realize like, oh, humans are suffering from all these diseases that they have cures for.
01:49:49
Speaker
And they only communicate in whistles and farts. So the alien, you know, they're going to go to Earth and, like, they're going to cure all humanity's ales. They're going to, like, make everything better. Yeah. And the aliens are flying to Earth.
01:50:04
Speaker
And on their way to Earth, they see ah this house next to a golf course that's on fire. Yeah. So they they land their ship and they run into the house and they're wait trying to wake up the family like, your house is on fire, but there's you know they're they talk in farts and squeaks and shit.
01:50:23
Speaker
And the guy wakes up and he grabs his golf club and he beats the alien to death. The aliens are dead. no Wait, so the aliens are tugging in whistles and farts? Yeah. Okay.
01:50:33
Speaker
So obviously the humans don't understand it. There's just an alien standing there farting in front of you. He grabs his 9-iron and he beats the alien to death. Yeah, okay. And a and Earth never got the cure for AIDS. It never got the cure for cancer. Shit. And that's the whole story.
01:50:48
Speaker
That's the nature of humanity. We never take our time to actually understand anything. We just beat it to death with a club. But see, that's the cynicism of it all, right? It's like, that's so fucking true. It's so true.
01:51:00
Speaker
It's so fucking true. I mean, like what we're doing to immigrants, right? We dehumanize them, make them illegal aliens, and so now we can kill them. You'll love one battle after another because it's not really a spoiler, but there's a group of white supremacists called the Christmas Adventurers Club. And they're upset because the lead character is raiding a town that makes the chicken nuggets that they like. And one of the members has immigrants that work there for really cheap. And like, we've got clear the situation up quick so we can get those immigrants working for the $2 a day or whatever. Like, we can't pay Americans to do this. This is way too expensive. Yeah. And they're like, and we love that chicken.
01:51:41
Speaker
And it's like, that's that's the nature of it, right? They want they hate the immigrants, they want them but they want them to work for cheap. and They hate the slave, but they want the slave labor. Yeah.
01:51:51
Speaker
You know, it's funny because an instructor, he saw it and he was telling me about the movie and he was like, dude, this film was filmed during Biden's era. And he's like, it's so on point during Trump's era. And was like, shit, man.
01:52:06
Speaker
I got to watch it now. I don't know what it's about. I have an inkling on what it's about. Like, left and anti-environment our environmentalism, maybe. Well, okay.
01:52:19
Speaker
But... protesting and maybe going to extremes. I don't really know. I, again, I don't know. It's about a guy trying to be a dad. Well, fuck. That's what the is about to a daughter.
01:52:33
Speaker
There's this scene in the movie that's so heartbreaking. No guy wants to be a parent. There's this heartbreaking scene in the film where he's, uh, Leo's riding in the car with Benicio del Toro. Hmm.
01:52:46
Speaker
And he's like, he's in it. Benicio? He's the best character in the movie. up yeah When isn't he the best character in the movie? His name is Sensei. I already love it. Because he's Leo's daughter's karate instructor. i think I'm going to be a fan. and And Leo's like, Sensei, you know, because he's like a burnout druggie. Who, Benicio? Oh, Leo. Okay, yeah. And he's like, i'm high all the time and I can't i can't be a good dad. Leo's us. yeah Yeah. And he's like, you know what? He's like, Sensei, I don't know how to do her hair, man.
01:53:20
Speaker
Oh, yeah. You know what? hu That's a dad. He's like, you know, i i have no idea how to do her hair. And Vinny Ossia is like, he's like, don't go dark on me, bro.
01:53:33
Speaker
well bro you're going ocean waves ocean waves and they're drinking and driving and uh uh and uh everybody has a cop and he and leo has a beer and he's like motherfucker i told you to put the cup in the bottle down turn put the can down yeah dude that's so good oh dude what it's so fun i laugh out loud uh don't raise the bar too high man i'm No, it's it's actually good. When PTA hits the fucking mark, dude, he's a he's a master filmmaker. He is.
01:54:06
Speaker
Like, I'm not sure about Tarantino. I'm not sure about Tarantino, but like, PTA, it's like, yeah, we got PTA, we got Bong Joon-ho. Maybe we have Chazelle.
01:54:18
Speaker
We got Greta Gerwig.
Evolving in Filmmaking
01:54:22
Speaker
But, you know, like, Babylon could have been a masterpiece if it it just had some editing. Like Scorsese. Scorsese could... every Every Scorsese film could be a masterpiece if there was some editing applied.
01:54:36
Speaker
Yeah. That's the biggest issue with Scorsese. It's like, dude. Yeah. Oh, I loved... ah Like every single film he's made… Killers of the Flower Moon. Yeah. Every single film he's made, it's like, yeah, we just needed to shorten it like 20 minutes, 30 minutes.
01:54:52
Speaker
Yeah. We would have had a masterpiece. And that's the thing about filmmakers, right? Is they… As they get older, in a sense, or as they get more set in their ways… It's like, oh, everything has to stay. The editing stop… They stop killing their darlings. Everything has to… Like Ridley Scott.
01:55:07
Speaker
Everything has to stay. It's like… It's like, go back and watch Taxi Driver. Go back and watch fucking Alien. Yeah.
01:55:18
Speaker
And you're like, how? How did really Scott make this movie? He made Gladiator 2. You would never believe that the that guy made a masterpiece. Yeah. Right? When you watch Gladiator 2, would you ever believe that that guy made two of the greatest films ever made? When you watch Gladiator 2, would you ever have imagined he made Gladiator? No.
01:55:36
Speaker
That movie sucks so much. It was so bad. yeah Oh, that guy's hurt. But then like, ah did you ever see White Squall? Yes.
01:55:46
Speaker
It's such a good movie, dude. Yeah. A movie forgotten by time that's like, damn. And then you had that jerk guy who was in Clueless. Yeah, he plays the asshole in Clueless where he's just trying to bang a Cher. Cher? And she's like, ah leave me in the parking lot.
01:56:02
Speaker
ah That was ah Alicia Silverstone's character, Cher. is that Oh, that was her name? Yeah. Yeah. Because it was Dion and Cher. Yeah. Yeah. And she's like, meet me in the parking lot. And he's like, fuck you. And he leaves her. And he's like, oh, fuck that guy.
01:56:18
Speaker
ah But he's in White Squall and he plays kind of like that asshole guy. I'm not sure. And then later on, he was in a ah Law and Order. And it's like, I hate that guy, but I kind of like him too. Ah, fuck.
01:56:33
Speaker
Alright, well, buddy, i don't know what else you want to talk about. Is there anything else did you want to bring up? Well, what was the topic of this episode? ah Because we discussed Temecula Valley and we discussed color, but we didn't get too much into it.
01:56:47
Speaker
ah But we did talk about lighting and lighting continuity that I think people should pay attention to. um You don't think it's going to play out until you watch it as a whole.
01:57:00
Speaker
But... You know, we got there. It's been...
01:57:08
Speaker
it's It's kind of a dull thud. Because we're there, but we're not there. It made the film look beautiful, but we're not there. Honestly, if we had finished the green rectangle thing before the color, I think I'd probably feel a lot better.
01:57:27
Speaker
But it's such a stain. It's such a stain on the goddamn movie. It can't... like I know it's something that will probably be fixed eventually, but it... And it was like, wow, we're finally getting it fixed. I remember thinking like... literally might not be fixed, dude.
01:57:42
Speaker
Yeah. How do you feel about that if it's not fixed? It would be a shame because I think it really does fuck some of the images up badly. But at the same time...
01:57:55
Speaker
i'm I'm kind of like... And it's a scary thing, and I don't think it's a good thing. it's I'm almost like, I'm over it. I just want to be done. And so I don't want to necessarily make the concessions or the... Well, we can't.
01:58:12
Speaker
We can't, but there's going to be a point where it's like, well, dude, like um are we going to be working... Like I said, are we working going to working on this for another five years? Trying to get that damn fucking rectangle fixed? What I mean by we can't is that We have to accept it.
01:58:26
Speaker
Yeah. We have to accept it. Like, I wouldn't put $10,000 in to fix it. No, no, no. But what I'm saying is, like, we can't fix it, so we have to accept it, and it's going to be what it is.
01:58:40
Speaker
That's just a part of this film. Yeah. The Bermuda rectangle is a part of this film. Yeah. But that's not the worst thing, because, I mean, we literally we suck And we have to accept that and embrace it.
01:59:02
Speaker
We have to embrace the flaws of the film. We do. It's just unfortunate that essentially the this one thing that ah probably should never happen is But every film has flaws, though.
01:59:18
Speaker
Yeah, but not every film just has a literal technical but fault like this. But honestly, if you saw a film... like Let's say you saw Godzilla. And then random shots of Godzilla, there's a rectangle obstructing some of the image.
01:59:36
Speaker
Not erasing it, but just obstructing it make it look weird. Does that make you like Godzilla any less? No. and I mean... I like... But of course, that's fucking Godzilla I'm talking about. Yeah, I was going to say, but at the same time, it's like, you know, we still love movies like Clerks, and we like movies that aren't visually perfect, that do have out-of-focus shots, that do have weird ADRs.
02:00:04
Speaker
The original Halloween, the ADR in the opening of that film. Michael! Right? It's dog shit. Like, it's dog shit. But that movie is fucking like a masterpiece in a sense.
02:00:17
Speaker
That's one of the worst parts of the film is that opening. Yeah. And then it's like, okay, we got past that. Well, that one-er is beautiful. Now it's getting good. No, the one-er is beautiful in a Halloween 2.
02:00:29
Speaker
Right? Yeah. yeah but the but Yeah, right? it's like but every foot that Films have these issues. the i the hope The hope is like we look past, that that is looked past, and we can address it as best we can.
02:00:44
Speaker
like i said ah Like I said, I wouldn't put another $10,000 in to fix it. I don't even know if I want to put in $2,000 more to fix it. But if we can fix it, we should fix it.
02:00:58
Speaker
yeah But at the same time, it's like, we've we've been sitting on it too long. We've been sitting on this, and we've been putting in too much to not try and like do something with it.
02:01:09
Speaker
There's no going back. You know, it's it's kind of funny because YouTube has free movies. They have Falling Down for free on YouTube. And they also have Army of Darkness. And I got fucking like loaded one day. And I was just watching Army of Darkness on my phone. Mm-hmm.
02:01:27
Speaker
And it's such a weird film. It's such a weird film because it's- ah It's like a bo Bugs Bunny movie. Well, it's a bit of a standalone. You know, it's a bit of a standalone film.
02:01:37
Speaker
oh Oh my God, that's in his eye. of Oh, fucking shit. Oh my fucking God. oh Oh my God, that's in his eye. Hey bro, you can you see how many fingers have held up? Shit. Okay, sorry.
02:01:56
Speaker
But then I was watching the Army of Darkness and I was like, man, this is such a great fucking film. Yes. I love it, dude. Just Bruce Campbell. What do you feel like when your fingers are in his eye sockets?
02:02:09
Speaker
I really want to know. Why? thought I should have won. He was blinded and he lost. I ripped out his eyeball and wow, you know, it felt pretty squishy. And then when I kind of give away, it was ah it was quite painful. When I pulled the eyeball out, he didn't blink.
02:02:25
Speaker
Damn, what an anticlimactic ending. Who ever thought? good Who's that lady? Translator. Really? Yeah, he's French.
02:02:38
Speaker
We're watching Cereal Gone vs Tom Aspinall. Cereal Gone cannot speak English, I don't think. Who knows? It's on silent. There's the translator.
02:02:49
Speaker
Je m'appelle Sherry Ogan. Well, ah sorry, buddy. Buddy, how should we? ah You know, this was a good day. Yeah. Got something huge done.
02:03:01
Speaker
Tell me, how do you feel about getting something huge done and the ah and the perspective of Temecula Valley Film Festival?
Balancing Life and Creative Pursuits
02:03:10
Speaker
Not beating a lot.
02:03:13
Speaker
Every time we get to this time of year, we fade out. Yeah. it's Well, this time of year is just crazy. Well, especially for but like especially now for both of us. Both your kids have birthdays, right? yeah And it's like, right? All my kids have birthdays in September. And it's like this time year is just crazy.
02:03:30
Speaker
But we're moving, like, I feel like it's like we're also trying to, it's like trying to find like this nice middle ground where we can still meet and work because there's still a lot of work to be done for us, for a Dickhead, for the podcast, for, you know, interview. It's like, we committed to like talking to all these people now and that's great. I think we're in a good spot there on that. Um, yeah.
02:03:57
Speaker
I mean, life's always going to be busy, and it's important that we still are pursuing this because despite how, you know ah you know, it does get depressing sometimes when I think like,
02:04:13
Speaker
and like i want to be like I want to just go home and watch play Ninja Turtles. yeah I want to play fucking Ninja Turtles, Splintered Fate, and then just grind coins and upgrade my characters. like I could do that for and like nine hours a day, just eat edibles and like shove popcorn up my ass. like That sounds great.
02:04:31
Speaker
But that's not fulfilling. You know what's fulfilling is when Summer was like, you know, thank you so much for inviting me to work on this project with you guys and I want to continue to work with you. And it's been a true pleasure. You think she's blowing smoke up her ass?
02:04:45
Speaker
i know I didn't feel that way. No. ah She's European. They don't have sarcasm in their in their dialect. She was like, no, I don't want to work with you again. Yeah. Okay. I mean, I love, one of the things I love, and this is what i respect Summer for a lot, was she was like, this was a hard fucking grade.
02:05:00
Speaker
It was fucking hard. She's like, no joke, this was hard. It was hard to get it to, to get it where it needed to be. and I'm like, yeah, it is I'm sorry. But,
02:05:12
Speaker
we got it We got there. And the thing is, and this is what Stephen and I have always tried to do, it's like we want to make the work as fun and engaging as possible. It's like yeah we can be so nitpicky, but it's because we're trying to make the best thing possible. And I think a lot of other people are trying to do the same.
02:05:31
Speaker
And so... Finishing this was huge. I mean, i told Steven, like, yeah, we finished one of the easier aspects, but audio was so close to being done. Like we have like, what, like two pages of of notes left from like the 14 or 19 pages.
02:05:46
Speaker
i think it started originally was like 19 pages of notes on things that we want to change and fix. And now we're down to like three or two or something like that. It's so close to being done. And then we have some stuff that we're going to do on the side and we'll get that completed.
02:06:01
Speaker
But it's... I... I wouldn't change it. for i wouldn't really, i wouldn't want to change it for the world. um I mean, Steve and I have bonded over this so much. I mean, like, we're connected for life. I mean, it's almost like we've had, we literally have had a child together in a sense. And that that child's name is Dickhead. But... what Yeah, oh, it's an ugly baby, but yeah it's a functional baby.
02:06:28
Speaker
um We've had to learn a lot and struggle a lot and fight a lot. and You said Steven gets his way every time. Elaborate.
02:06:39
Speaker
all i What I just mean is like I feel like you already have this idea in your head what you want something to look like, and you just slowly maneuver and move the dial until we get there. so i remember I wanted this hyper-surrealist kind of dreamlike quality to the end of the film where everything was like this blue ah David Lynch kind of...
02:07:02
Speaker
um ah what's real, what's not. And then we ended up with like this very naturalistic looking. But the thing is, so it looks great. Can I ask you this, then? Do you think like because I get said in my ways that I'm not...
02:07:20
Speaker
um I'm not elastic. Like, i i i know like yes, I get set in my ways and it has to be this. And if it's not that, then I'm not really willing to compromise. No. is that No, but is that one of my issues? Because, you know, I don't know. like I am who I am. so like In some ways, yes. But i don't the thing this is the thing is, and this is what I think would be true for both of us,
02:07:46
Speaker
is As soon as we both present our arguments, we we can sway each other. Do you think I sway easily or? Or not easily. i don't want to say I sway easily. But do you think I sway when when I should sway?
02:08:00
Speaker
i think so. I would hope so. like do I get in the way of myself? You do. um Because I think you get, for especially you get, stuff I think you it's not necessarily stubborn as much as you already have. i remember when you were like, I got go back and look at the footage to compare it to what Summer wants to see.
02:08:17
Speaker
but But is it like. And I remember thinking like, dude, we just got to go with what we got. But do do I get in the way of myself to where it's like, um like time lost?
02:08:30
Speaker
Yes. Yeah. But I think that's also because of the nature of how we've been working. Where it's like, oh, hey, i'll you know we'll do this and then two weeks of nothing or whatever.
02:08:43
Speaker
And because sometimes like it's like, but you to your point and to your validation, sometimes it's worth it. Because sometimes I'm like, buddy, it's not worth it to try these extra steps. Like we already have something that works.
02:08:59
Speaker
But then you would sit you would show me and I'm like, all right, fuck, fine. Okay, yeah, you proved it. Are you saying fuck fine, like, I don't want to continue this? Or is it like fuck fine, like, ah yeah, that is and improvement?
02:09:12
Speaker
No, no, it is an improvement. it i think My concern, and I guess it's it's an invalid concern because we have no time limit.
02:09:23
Speaker
other than our own efforts. Well, we have a timeline in the sense like people can walk away. Yeah. You know, and that that is a timeline. And that's something that I've just, and like I said, it was like we got to get summer done because i it's like I don't want to string anyone along.
02:09:39
Speaker
yeah Because it's like we need it's like with audio, like I know John and Pat and Adam, they work on this probably for as long as we would need them to work to get it right. I just don't want to find out what the breaking point is for them. Take advantage of that, yeah. Because I know for you and i are we don't have a breaking point.
02:09:57
Speaker
I mean, at this point, we don't. It's already too late. Yeah, it's already too late. The ticket never came out. No one that made the movie would would never know. yeah It's been so long. they've probably Everyone's forgotten. they it's When we say, hey, the movie's going to prepare it is's premiere at Fantastic Fest in New York City, they're going to be like, what the fuck? I was in that? Yeah.
02:10:18
Speaker
Well, there's nothing to bring him back unless it's like, hey, we're at Sundance. Yeah.
02:10:24
Speaker
And so... Because even if we're like, hey, we're at Beyond Fist, be like, what the fuck is that? I would say... Your style would be a detriment if we had a deadline. but i also But I also think if we had a deadline, you would you would adapt.
02:10:39
Speaker
Well, also, if we had a deadline, it'd be like, yo, I'm paying you fucking money. Yeah. So you need to do this shit right. Yeah. Because I think we were we've been too comfortable in the experimenting phase.
02:10:52
Speaker
Well, also, I think we've been too exposed to the... yeah I'm at your grace. Yes. Very much so. You know, because Summer's doing this...
02:11:04
Speaker
at her expense uh adam pat and john are doing this at their expense like we're not giving any anyone ah what they deserve so it so i think for me it's like well how can i expect you to give me how can i be that demanding on you if i'm not paying you for that demand you know like You ain't getting tipped well, so like why am I going to be an asshole to how my food is served?
Reflections on 'Dickhead'
02:11:34
Speaker
yeah you know There's no tip, so why am I going to shit on you for my fries being cold?
02:11:39
Speaker
But then it's like, well, cant yeah I mean, I see a microwave right there. Can you just warm it up like 20 seconds? Yeah. But there have definitely been times where it's like,
02:11:51
Speaker
I think, I guess it's different. It's so hard to to quantify in a sense because we've been working on this so fucking long. Yeah. Or I even myself, um' I'll go back and I'll think, fuck, I kind of want to kind of recut that scene a little bit. But then I have to kind of slap myself yeah it back into reality where it's like, no, Tom, it's fucking done, dude.
02:12:15
Speaker
We ain't doing that. Because I remember thinking watching the them walking when ken and Jennifer and Richard are walking away. And it's like, can we just like cut that scene out?
02:12:27
Speaker
No. Can we just like do put something else there? Anything else there? Yeah. Instead, because, right, it's like there's this ugly rectangle that is like fucking... It's like it's so cooked in there.
02:12:40
Speaker
And like you were saying, the color ah the color looks so off because it's like the it's like do we have this beautiful... um ah like midday shot where we have this nice lens flare and there's like this it's very warm like I said it literally looks like Gladiator when he's looking at his wife in heaven or whatever that's in the wheat fields that's how Richard sees Jennifer right and it's like oh it's gorgeous and then they leave and it's like night it's like but at the same time it's like maybe there's something to that it's like
02:13:15
Speaker
There's like, you know, and i and it's like, I always think like the filmmaker can always argue his way out of any situation. There's a reason why that's there. Yes, we could say, oh, the reason it's dark and night is they actually have evening classes. And this is how Richard views Jennifer. This is how his aspect is. Oh, they're showing the eye poke.
02:13:36
Speaker
Don't look, buddy. Oh, my God. Oh, God. There's two fingers just... Oh, my God. Do you see that fucking finger in his eye? he was downloading the Matrix, and it was brain, my God.
02:13:52
Speaker
oh God. oh God. That's so bad. God. Oh, I'm sorry. human body is very adaptable. But what I'm saying is, right? the Shit.
02:14:07
Speaker
For a lot of the weirdness, I think for better or worse, we have answers for. Let me ask you this. Sure. The amount of time we spent, because this is looking like it's going to take 11 years.
02:14:20
Speaker
Yeah, we won't be done this calendar year. We won't be done. We're going to still say 10 years because that's a nice, sweet number, like a decade. yeah To say we took 10 years, that's a nice, sweet, round number.
02:14:33
Speaker
But it's going to be taking 11 years. Do you feel like it's been worth it? From what you've seen now, like with audio and coloring now, literally now, what we've accomplished with the edit,
02:14:47
Speaker
Is that worth the time span? For my own sanity, I want to say yes. But... Be honest. Part of me thinks no. we there 10 years is a long time. Yeah.
02:15:03
Speaker
We could have made a ah lot of things in the interim. We've only made everything harder on ourselves by taking as long as we have. My biggest thing, and maybe I'm wrong about this is, but...
02:15:19
Speaker
i hate It eats me up that the only if if Dickhead does anything, it will only be for us. Because of how long we took, none of our actors can really benefit from the film.
02:15:33
Speaker
Yeah. They've all probably moved on with their lives, doing something else, something different. Well, they've gotten older. And any any opportunities that the film could have provided for them probably don't exist anymore. Yeah.
02:15:46
Speaker
And I don't know how to necessarily reconcile that because everyone pretty much did everything for free. Yeah. And I think, and it kind of eats me up a little bit.
02:15:59
Speaker
We took so long, we took all the opportunity away from them. Yeah. have you But have you seen the shit they worked on? That's the thing. Maybe they could have... it's I can't... Hold one second. I can't also say that there were opportunities... but There could have been opportunities if Dickhead had have cut out earlier. Because I can't... I'm not a fucking wizard. I don't have a crystal ball.
02:16:23
Speaker
I don't know. But I can't reconcile the fact that... And the thing is, I also know that Dickhead... As selfishly as I want to say is for me and you.
02:16:37
Speaker
don't want to say it's for you and me, but... Let me just say this while you're what you're thinking on that thought. No, I was gonna i remember I watched it in the backyard on the projector with Jake when we had the when we got the first audio cut back. And he was like, wow, I haven't seen this.
02:16:53
Speaker
I've never seen it and in its entirety. The film. And he just just goes, wow, you guys really did something cool. I wish... you know i i'm I'm excited to see where it goes and I'm just thinking like I hope it goes somewhere like well brother wait 10 years
02:17:17
Speaker
so yeah I don't know what how about you Well, I think I said yes and no in ah in a very long-winded way. I think for me, it's like if I could be a part of anything that was worthwhile, I'd be happy with that.
02:17:30
Speaker
Yeah. Because how many of us don't accomplish anything worthwhile within a general populace? you know like i've grown ah I've grown up around a lot of great people.
02:17:45
Speaker
like my family members who have accomplished a lot, mean, obviously for me, who have done things worthwhile, but
02:17:57
Speaker
that story is not going to get told. Whereas this one, it's not going to get told, but you'll see the product of what we did in a film eventually.
02:18:10
Speaker
And then there's an entire story behind that. And it's like, that's a privilege to be a part of. you know Not for me to say like, yeah, dickhead's great or anything. so I'm not trying to say that. It's just
02:18:28
Speaker
like anyone who's who participated in this film can be like, hey, look, this is something I made. And it's like, yes you made that. Like nothing got made without everyone involved.
02:18:41
Speaker
You know, every single person who was involved in this, no matter how little, is a part of this and made this. My arrogance wants to come in and say, but if if ever if any of it is great, it's because of us.
02:18:54
Speaker
well but Because, goddammit, we've seen how bad it could have been. yeah Yeah, but we needed to take that time to present what we imagined this could be. Because it was like, hey, let's just have this stupid-ass story and make a film out of it.
02:19:12
Speaker
And then it turned into, like, let's make an actual film out of this. Yeah. Because, i i mean, I still remember... shooting back and forth with you at your house, drunk.
02:19:26
Speaker
Like, well, maybe his name is Tom Jones. And he throws a grenade, baby, at Bin Laden, and that's how he dies. Like, we had this stupid-ass fucking story that it was built upon.
02:19:39
Speaker
But then we invested ourselves into it to make it worthwhile to everyone who was involved. And it's like Night of the Hunter. If I was that director, like If someone said, look, you're going to make Night of the Hunter, but that's the only film you're ever going to make.
02:19:57
Speaker
Are you okay with that? I'd be like, yeah, I'm fucking fine with that. That's my film? Yeah, I'm good. So there's that element to me where it's like... You mean one of the greatest films ever made? Yeah, if I could be a part of one of the greatest films ever made. You're trying to say Dickhead is Night of the Hunter. it's No, I'm not. What I'm trying to say is like...
02:20:20
Speaker
You see, man has a duality. No. Between love yeah and hate. i'm yeah I'm just trying to say like... And dick and head. There we go. We got to get matching tattoos on our fingers, our knuckles to say dickhead. You could get a dick, I'll get head.
02:20:38
Speaker
But like...
02:20:43
Speaker
I want to make it worthwhile to the people who are involved in this. And yes, everyone wants it to come out sooner so it can be more relevant on a timescale. But it's like, there's so many good films I've seen.
02:21:00
Speaker
That they didn't give the time needed. And as a result, it will be forgotten in time. You know what the pit of my stomach worries about? Hold on. There's so many 2B films I've seen that had a chance.
02:21:16
Speaker
But because people compromised, ain't no one ever going remember them. Mm-hmm. And there's no sense to say anyone will remember what we're doing. But... Shit.
02:21:28
Speaker
We devoted fucking 10 years. And that means something. Because it's... For you and me, that's 10 years of our fucking lives. Like... Like, maybe they forgot about it at year five.
02:21:41
Speaker
I don't think anyone's asking, like... Hey, what happened about that film? But we're like... Yeah, we're still working. Like even my uncle, he's like, hey, I heard you're working on a film that's been taking 10 years. I'm like, yeah, I'm still working on that.
02:21:55
Speaker
So for you and me, it's been something that weighed on us. Yeah. And we never shortcutted that. And we've tried to deliver something there.
02:22:06
Speaker
For me, and dan this sounds petty. Yeah. But I fear the sting that we worked 10 years and we just end up on the shelf next on the Tubi, Tubi's greatest hits or whatever. And even while. Well, Tubi has some good movies on there. No, no, no, no. There's, I don't want to say that there's necessarily shade there, but I know that it would spend 10 years on those movies The Great and Terrible Day of the Lord didn't take 10 years to make.
02:22:36
Speaker
Now, look, Jared and Clark, I know Jared listens to our show. We love you, Jared. I love actually enjoy- Jared, send me a comment if you listen, because I don't believe it.
02:22:47
Speaker
i listen to i I like Great and Terrible Day of the Lord. I think it's an interesting film. um
02:22:57
Speaker
But i but here's here's what I want to say about that. It's like, They, even though they were like, I remember when they were on the show and they're like, yeah, it's been two years and nothing's come of the movie. I'm just like, two years? Like, oh. And I think of that gif of ah the Buckster Scruggs where the guy, what's his name? He's being hung and he's like, first time.
02:23:17
Speaker
ah James Franco. But also And he's like, first time being hung, huh? Because like his gang always comes and shoots rope or whatever. and I'm like, yeah. Damn, we're so... we've been The news has been around the neck. We haven't even dropped yet. We don't know if we survive or not. But also, like with the great and terrible day of the Lord of Mancha, they could have spent 10 years.
02:23:38
Speaker
I don't know. yeah i don't fucking know, man. We did the time. Yeah. Did we pay for our crime? We're trying. People are going to find out.
02:23:50
Speaker
Yeah. I will say... We can't know. Our biggest off defense, and this is where I would ill die on this sword, is we never stopped trying to make the film the best film. Even though we shot a shit ton of extra footage that absolutely will never see the light of day. that was i mean some of it did. I mean, we had the first scene of the film. No, no. But you know how many extra shots? No, I know. Right? We reshot so many scenes, and we did so many...
02:24:19
Speaker
reshoots or ah pickup shots or all this other stuff. And it was just, and it at the end of the day, it was like, yeah we didn't need any of it. And that was all wasted funds and interest in the fucking Sean debacle and the Betty debacle. and and it's And it's like every lesson we learned, we had learned the hardest way. And I guess in the the um the matter of life and death, the the grand scale, when i you know when we're sitting on our knees in front of the trial of the century and Kubrick's the judge. and Oh, don't let Kubrick be the judge, please. And we're sitting there on our knees and we're like, master, we tried, master. You know, like every day we wanted to make the best thing we could possibly make. And he just bangs that gap and he's like, garbage, garbage, garbage. It's like, master, master, but you don't understand. And he's just like, garbage, garbage.
02:25:13
Speaker
I can know that sitting next to you, buddy, we can hold our heads high because every step of the way has been trying to make the film the best it could possibly be. I mean, it's the best dickhead, definitely, that we've ever made.
02:25:27
Speaker
Well, you know, seeing what summer cooked up for us, it's something. And it's something that it never should have been, perhaps. You can argue that.
02:25:39
Speaker
yeah But it's something that it is, and it's going to be. And we are going to get coloring good to look good. We're going to get VFX to edit out all of our shit mistakes.
02:25:52
Speaker
And we're going to get audio to sell us. And then after that. It's in your hands. We can just say we made a film. Here it is.
02:26:03
Speaker
Cut.