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TSP Ep 135: Interview of Writer Danielle Fray
28 Plays22 days ago
In this interview, Tom and Steve get to talk Danielle Fray, writer of all things with the latest being her graphic novel series: #GirlsonTour. She talks to the boys about her upbringing, experience in theatre, writing, and of course her Graphic Novel, #GirlsonTour, which she worked on alongside Charlie Flowers.
So come along the tour with us!
If you'd like to find out more about Danielle Fray, you can find her here:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/danielle-fray-b724b7142/
And her graphic novel can be found on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=%23GIRLSONTOUR&i=stripbooks&crid=1ZW8CFF3KRU3K&sprefix=+girlsontour%2Cstripbooks%2C231&ref=nb_sb_noss
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Transcript
Introduction to the Podcast with Special Guest Daniel Frey
00:00:00
Speaker
Okay, but well we'll get this going so we can ah get things going, as they say. Okay. All right. Hello, everyone, and welcome to Twin Shadows Podcast, podcast about film, filmmaking, filmmakers. The podcast is brought to you, as always, by two greatest co-hosts who ever smell the bottom of a barrel.
00:00:17
Speaker
This is ah Tom and Steve, and today we have a very special guest. Hello. Hello. We have Daniel Frey with us all the way across the pond. How are you doing?
00:00:29
Speaker
I'm good, thank you. How are you? Doing well. i got ah Got some whiskey and some beer and some water for, you know, just ah proper hydration.
00:00:39
Speaker
Keep it going smooth. Absolutely. Yeah, it's good I'm excited to talk to you.
Oscar Nominations and Film Critique
00:00:44
Speaker
I was reading some of the stuff that you put have on Amazon, watching trailers on your and your YouTube videos, which were okay which was pretty cool and yeah interested to talk about all that. Sure, sure, sure.
00:00:58
Speaker
ah One thing I wanted to bring up too is we haven't talked about it yet, but Oscar nominations came out. Danielle, have you seen any of the Oscar films, the Best Picture nominations? Do you follow at all?
00:01:08
Speaker
I do. I used to follow it quite a lot when I was younger. Not so much now. um But yeah, I think the only one I've seen that's nominated is a Substance. Oh, how'd you like that one?
00:01:21
Speaker
I thought was great. Absolutely great. And yeah, it's quite seizing on Hollywood, but yeah, i absolutely loved it. but Oh, yeah. I think that's part one of the best aspects of the film is its criticisms of Hollywood and just how we treat...
00:01:37
Speaker
aging actresses and yeah sure the high demands on beauty and beauty standards and yeah when i when i saw it i wasn't sure you know as i was watching it watching i was like okay i'm digging it but you know i'm not so sure about certain areas but then once it got to the end and they just went all the way i was like okay i'm fully on board now and yeah For me, the ending of that movie just really sold it for me. I was just like, okay, I love this thing.
00:02:05
Speaker
This is amazing. The gates open, don't they? Yeah, the end is like a make or break ending. like I think a lot of people probably would probably fall off because of how absurd the end gets. But for me, um I delve right into that. What did you think of the end?
00:02:22
Speaker
I thought it was great. it I don't think you could end it any other way, really. It just, um, with everything, um, the set up that way, um where could you go from there? So yeah, it was brilliant.
00:02:37
Speaker
So yeah. Yeah. I just loved it. It fully sold me, but, um, enough about the substance. Let's go ahead and talk about you.
Inspiration from Filmmakers and Early Film Experiences
00:02:45
Speaker
So do you want to tell us a little bit about yourself? You know, um So you do screenwriting, right? And then yeah we want to get into this more like you have ah a comic, correct? Or a graphic novel?
00:02:59
Speaker
Graphic novel. Girls on Tour. hashtags Hashtag. Hashtag. Hashtag, yes. So definitely want to ask you about that. And course, you have your theater background. um But since this is about film, what specifically got you into the filmmaking side of things?
00:03:14
Speaker
um I guess when I was very, very young, i saw, ah um i was born in the early 70s, so um I grew up watching all the new stuff from Spielberg and Lucas and Brian De Palma and everything like that. But what grabbed me most was catching John Carpenter's early films.
00:03:35
Speaker
John Carpenter really resonated with me. One of us, yes. John Carpenter, yeah. Halloween The Thing. yeah Yeah, I just saw The Thing recently. Wonderful. yeah Brilliant.
00:03:48
Speaker
Yeah, it is brilliant. Yeah, I just and and i I was watching it and still to this day, every time I watch that film, I always find new aspects of it. And I was just kind of seeing things from a different angle. I'm like, oh, that's really interesting.
00:04:02
Speaker
um yeah Specifically, like with who might be the thing and who might not be and and seeing like the subtext and the dialogue um within that film. Yeah. yes I always just love watching that. Yeah, it changes every, slightly slightly changes every time I watch it. Sometimes I think Kurt Russell's the thing at the end. Sometimes I don't think either them are.
00:04:23
Speaker
Yeah. It's one of the... I watch it, so yeah. It's one of the films that's like legitimately scary every time. Like it doesn't matter if you know what's coming. It's still the dog, the dog scene still unsettling to me. It's the, the shock.
00:04:44
Speaker
What is it? The, what's that thing called? The defibrillation scene. below Yes. It's like when that happened and like, just like the way he's, the thing is screaming as like its head is like,
00:04:55
Speaker
ripping and then the sound effects it's like it's one of the it's like I've seen that film 50 times maybe yeah like I still like every time I'm just like damn it it works everything is working together to make that film what it is um one thing we also want to talk about as well is like um so you you know you got said you got started watching like ah um Lucas and Spielberg and John Carpenter. So what when did you like start writing and but ah when did you decide, like this is going to be something I want to pursue?
00:05:29
Speaker
um I didn't know for definite that age, but I'd say about 9, 10, 11. um My granddad gave me a Super 8 cine camera. And with my friend, Zach, who's been my childhood friend since dot year one.
00:05:49
Speaker
We're still friends now. But we used to make sort of the Super A films from about the ages 11 17. Yeah. seventeen Oh, awesome. They weren't exactly masterpieces, but we sort of self-taught each other to do storyboarding, scripting.
00:06:08
Speaker
I didn't really do anything from that, but I learned more about scripting in the theatre when I left school. But yeah, that was my sort of first film experience, if you like. ah Okay. We made about 10 or 12 films.
00:06:27
Speaker
Oh, wow. you Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're only short ones, but yeah. Do you still have those? um Somewhere, somewhere in my shed. and Well, that's good. That's good. You keep them. Because I don't have a projector anymore. They just separate in a box.
00:06:42
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Should really transfer them. But yeah, yeah, yeah. um So then... Why with the screenwriting, how did you end up going that direction?
Path to Screenwriting and Cultural Influences
00:06:55
Speaker
Because, you know, I think when you write or tell stories, there's many avenues you can go down.
00:07:01
Speaker
um And I think one of the most... obvious or maybe one of the ones that seemed the most defined is just go down like writing a novel. So why doing why did you pick screenwriting over doing... I guess because both my parents were actors, but I'm a director.
00:07:22
Speaker
My dad was semi-pro, he's done some pro stuff. But every sort of couple of months, they'd both bring a script home.
00:07:33
Speaker
And I was fascinated how how it worked. So yeah, of course I read books as well, normal books. But and yeah crying is im scripting is just where I found the key to tell a story.
00:07:45
Speaker
so I mean, it wasn't straight away. Several years to develop it. But yeah. Yeah. Rather than just writing a book, um I've tried writing a book and I've sort of got two or three half written.
00:07:59
Speaker
i I write scripts better. okay It's just the play <unk>s just way it's turned out. And you've done plays as well. like Is that the the kind of like the same thing? um Yeah, I've done a couple of plays.
00:08:14
Speaker
A couple of times I've been a sort of script supervisor where I've sort of had to add bits and take bits away. Working with it, I sort of did everything apart from acting because I tried acting when i was a child and yeah I just didn't like it. It just wasn't for me.
00:08:31
Speaker
So yeah, everything from lighting to sound. Yeah. Well, were your parents, um so they were actors, was it theater or film? Theater.
00:08:43
Speaker
But my dad has done a couple of films, but not very big roles. So was your progression like into theater and then from theater into film? um It was very slow um because I had a child, so I had to get a day job. but Yeah.
00:08:59
Speaker
Oh, yeah. i We understand that. We got you there. Yeah. I'm curious, um where, you're from England, yes? um Yes. Born and raised?
00:09:12
Speaker
Born and raised. In deepest Kent. and Okay, so ah the so theater is just like, it's so much more grounded and like, applauded in England, yes, like as opposed to like out here. like there you don't Barely any like plays that go on.
00:09:27
Speaker
High schoolers, like really it's like like really only in grammar school and high school do you really see plays in our area? but I know England, home in Shakespeare. Yeah, absolutely. It's embraced here a lot more.
00:09:42
Speaker
and You do get a lot street cred if you do a lot of theater roles as well. But, you know, um I mean, I guess there's Broadway in New York. Yeah. It's pretty far from us.
00:09:53
Speaker
That's true. yeah We're on the other side of like ah the coast. That's true. Yeah, that's true. ah California, it's like, we just completely, ah like, there's like three theaters maybe like in Southern California that are like big. I suppose it's because it's a movie town, isn't it? It is. Yeah. That's what I was going to say. Maybe because just Hollywood's around the corner for us. That's why um film is such a strong, more stronger component here than maybe East coast. I don't know.
00:10:19
Speaker
Yeah. um And so to just to go back to your background a a little bit there, when you're, starting to develop your writing and yeah you said you had a kid, so you have to day job. Like how do you then start to, how did you manage creativity or did you kind of slow down and stop entirely while like just doing parent stuff? and Yeah, i did the parent stuff and then I did a sort of regular job for a while.
00:10:49
Speaker
Had a few personal problems, so everything was on hold. And then, um what it was about 15 years ago, I got invited to a party in London and I met a guy called Charlie and he asked me to adapt book he was doing for, possibly a film.
Collaborations and Graphic Novels
00:11:14
Speaker
but it hasn't transpired yet. So I did that for him and he thought, wow, you just type this out like two months. yeah, yeah, it's fine. Wow, that's how long it took you, huh?
00:11:25
Speaker
Yeah, because it was a big book. It was a big book. And sometimes books don't always translate to script very well, so you have to change it slightly.
00:11:36
Speaker
course. Yeah.
00:11:39
Speaker
What was that experience like? That quite, um it was unusual because I'd never adapted anything before. I'd already always sort of done things from about my own imagination.
00:11:53
Speaker
So yeah, it was both hard, challenging, and really enjoyable because it was something new. And um since then, Charlie and I have worked together on projects, and we did the comic together.
00:12:07
Speaker
Yeah, you guys did Girls on Tour. Neither you are the artist, right? Like, you guys are, it's co-written? um Yeah, and Charlie came up with the story, and and they sort of bashed out the first draft, and then we worked on the script together. up So, ah essentially, we wrote it as a three-part TV series.
00:12:28
Speaker
Oh, okay. Yeah. And um we met the two artists who live in Columbia, by the way. um I said, yeah, the script's fine, but it's not a comic book script.
00:12:41
Speaker
So I had to adapt it again. ah so um it's now a comic strip, but i've it's in two formats now. It's a script. handed I imagine it it would be a tough sell. It's very raunchy.
00:12:55
Speaker
Yeah. Yes. We guys we but sort of took the cue from um Hitchcock to say it's about sex, but you don't see any sex. so Yeah. i was Just from the trailers, I'm like, this is so spicy. And then I saw a couple of the panels and I'm like, oh, goodness, this is awesome.
00:13:11
Speaker
So bit of tennelation there then, huh? Yeah, absolutely. You just take it to the edge, but don't show everything. that That was sort of our thing because ah so much is in your face nowadays.
00:13:22
Speaker
You don't need to see it to make a good story. Yeah. Absolutely. And, and then also kind of like makes the readers keep going. Cause it's like the hope that maybe you do go all way. Oh, I yeah this the panel can keep going up. Like I got to get the next page to find out. Um,
00:13:41
Speaker
And yeah, so yeah, i i because i was thinking, because you were saying ah adapting, I was like, oh wow, that's like, because I mean, it's essentially like James Bond meets like Charlie's Angels, but kind of like not like they're sexy prostitutes, kind of, right?
00:13:57
Speaker
yeah Yeah, yeah, yeah. They have no, absolutely no interest in becoming agents or spies or whatever. They just fall into it by accident. And sort of that's the joke that runs through, well, certainly in the next few stories.
00:14:12
Speaker
Well, do you want to give us a little synopsis of ah this graphic novel you're working on? Oh, sure. You've produced, a what, two books now? Two books, and the third part is just being finished colorized, and it should be out any time soon.
00:14:28
Speaker
ah Awesome. Awesome. We're just waiting. ah But basically, right, okay. um It's four ladies of the night who come from Romania, to come to ining England on a tour, hence Girls on Tour, to make some money.
00:14:45
Speaker
However, um they go to a soiree in London, and one of them is kidnapped by a Serbian gang who are into trafficking. And they also sort of bump into the middle of a gang turf war in London, which sort of comes more to the fore in part two and three.
00:15:05
Speaker
um But they're being watched. They're constantly being watched by the British government. um And they sort of get hoodwinked into doing their dirty work for them without knowing that they're doing the dirty work.
00:15:22
Speaker
With all the lead up to part three, well, in part two, there's a bank robbery with an imaginary dog. There's a sale of weapons. the and You get introduced to the the rival gang.
00:15:36
Speaker
and the other part of London. And in part three, it's all sort of crescendos up into the really violent ending. um but it They rescue Selma, the one who's been kidnapped.
00:15:48
Speaker
And after that, we've got two more stories to come. So, yeah. Oh, awesome. so it's yeah you it's going to be a five-part series in total? what this yeah Well, this first three parts is all one story.
00:16:00
Speaker
Okay. And then it's going to be a continuation of the girls. The girls would come back in a separate story. nice Hopefully in the summer, because it's not quite as long. It's just the one-parter. And then hopefully just for Christmas, we've got um a two-parter, which is set in Eurovision of all places.
00:16:23
Speaker
So when you're doing the writing for this, are the artists drawing doing SketchUp? Are they waiting for your your ah your story to be like, yeah you're writing the dialogue yeah and the bubbles and everything. And then does that come first or how does that work?
00:16:40
Speaker
um Well, because ah we were sort of going in blind when we did the first issue. We've since learned to sort of break down each scene into panels.
00:16:55
Speaker
And while they're drawing part one, we're sort of doing the third draft of writing part two. So it sort of happens like that.
00:17:07
Speaker
They're drawing one while we're writing the next one. So we've got a sort of polished schedule now. yeah so it seems like ah it's kind of quite the learning curve.
00:17:21
Speaker
Yes, it has been a learning curve. We've made a few mistakes. ah Those mistakes needed to be mistaken. sir Yeah, and we understand that. We always say you got to learn everything the hardest way possible before it's a stick.
00:17:38
Speaker
Yeah, you only get good if you make mistakes. so Yeah. yeah So I imagine you know doing a graphic novel is very different from doing um a screenplay.
00:17:51
Speaker
But um how are they similar then? Because um although they're written a little bit differently, the essence of dialogue, scene, dialogue, scene, dialogue, scene is essentially the same.
00:18:06
Speaker
Okay. It's just when you do a comic one, it's just broken down into panels. So, you know. Right. Yeah. and yeah like The motion is still, so you're like trying to.
00:18:19
Speaker
Yeah. But you have to sort of describe it as much as you can. you' like there paint You're just painting pictures and words for panels. And then 70 panels later, you've got your book. Okay. So then it's very natural then.
00:18:34
Speaker
And do you do that on cue cards? What's your process for um breaking down the story and like getting the panels essentially ready to go? quite easy because um as I've written the scenes in the first draft or something, I can just see it in my mind's eye. Like you would be doing sort of storyboarding, I guess.
00:18:57
Speaker
um It's basically like doing storyboarding, but you're writing it with a script and tantrum. It's like strike doing previsualization on a film.
00:19:09
Speaker
so so Yeah, okay. bring them Yeah, but yeah, there's not much difference between them. And are you fan of of other graphic novels?
Influences and Writing Style
00:19:19
Speaker
Oh, sure. And like what are some of your favorites?
00:19:21
Speaker
ah Because we can talk about that too. Charlie and I both love 2000 of course. Tanker. but yeah um thank you Tank Girl. yeah I love the movie. Is the movie a good representation of the graphic novel? Because i kind of I've never read the books, so kind of i'm but I'm a big fan of the film. so It's not bad. It's a little bit different because obviously some of the dynamics are different.
00:19:47
Speaker
But um the animated sequences in it are done by the artist who did Tank Girl, Jamie Hewlett. Yeah. yeah Oh, cool. Yeah. I think it was originally envisioned as all animated. Obviously they didn't have the money.
00:20:03
Speaker
i'm Well, you also would lose out on like Laurie Petty and. That's true. And. Malcolm McDowell. Yeah. Malcolm McDowell. He's so good. Isn't Ice-T in that or something?
00:20:14
Speaker
Yeah. Yes. He's one of the rippers. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I remember that went to theaters. Yeah. um Naomi Watts. That's when I fell in love with her. Oh, she yes. Yeah. I think that was her first film, wasn't it?
00:20:26
Speaker
i I would say, yeah, she's the pilot. um Yeah. How old is she? fuck, she's young. She got to be, yeah I don't know. yeah She looks about 18, isn't it? Yeah. Wow. Older than me. That's all I know. um
00:20:41
Speaker
So anyway don't get him come at me if she was like 16 or something. And I was in love with her back then. So yeah. ah It's not Leon the professional. No, no, no. Nothing like that. Yeah. That movie, that's a movie that's really stuck with me. Tank Girl. Yeah, Tank Girl.
00:20:57
Speaker
Yeah. I never saw it, but it stuck with me too, strangely enough. I mean, I remember the commercials and the trailers and it always kind of stuck with me. You got to watch it, dude. It's really good.
00:21:07
Speaker
like It's definitely a product of its time. We've been talking about a lot about ninety s movies and stuff and it's Yeah, I mean... Yeah, I've been on a bit of a nostalgia, a 90s nostalgia trip right now. um I've been watching a lot of the... um It's the prequel to Waterworld, I think.
00:21:27
Speaker
but Mad Max. yeah Yeah, there you go. Yeah, because I remember like the whole thing is like, they need water. And there's like, those little suction tubes are like, stab you and then suck all the water out of you. And then he drinks it.
00:21:39
Speaker
Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. Great movie. Highly recommend if you've if any of our viewers have never seen it. So Tank Girl, 2018, that's not Judge Dredd, is it? Yes, that's right. Okay, that's right. i was like, I know that. I know it's ah Judge Dredd.
00:21:54
Speaker
um Yeah. those That's another one where it' so there's almost too many Judge Dredd books where I'm like, where do you even start? like how do you get like Sometimes with comics, I'm like, how do you even start? Where do you get into this? um Like Spawn. Spawn has a lot too where it's like, how do you even start? like I know you you can't just go like...
00:22:12
Speaker
like guess it gee you just go to article page one or the first issue and keep going like where do you even find the first issue of Spawn these are things like I don't know maybe yeah for me like have you ever read Why the Last Man that's probably my favorite I haven't no but I've been told it's really good it almost got me crying almost almost got me Tom don't feel ah they're not sucking any water out of his eyes let's put it that way and That's all on my ass, but you know, what damn.
00:22:42
Speaker
Um, uh, uh, ah yeah Sorry, so ah other think yeah so... Moving on. So what would you say were like the inspirations? like You said Charlie kind of pitched the story and then you ah wrote the actually you actually wrote it.
00:23:01
Speaker
um Yeah. And then was it like you both like are like, hey, I want to pull from this and this like because it's kind of like the spy, espionage. Why Romania? like I have questions. I'm curious. I because i think think...
00:23:17
Speaker
we've seen so many things where they're either from America or they're from London. let's give them sort of exotic twist. And Charlie's family, know, originally from Hungary, which is near Romania.
00:23:28
Speaker
So I think that's where that came from. um But, yeah, we... We know where we live. We know lots of girls like that.
00:23:39
Speaker
And the characteristics sort of resonate on you, I suppose. So, yeah, I mean, um and we're both lovers of 60s spy films and 70s club shows. So everything's like squashed together to make this sort of cake.
00:23:58
Speaker
And lots and lots of dry British humour, of course. Well, I mean, you guys are British. You have to do that. um Yeah. I'm trying to think 60s spy films. Like, I mean, of course I know James Bond, but what are some others that you can shout out?
00:24:15
Speaker
There's In Night Flint. um The Matt Hale films. I've never heard of, like, Flint. or flint I've never even heard of Flint. Not Lee Marvin, and the one who looks like Lee Marvin.
00:24:26
Speaker
and Yeah, anyway, I'll think of it in a minute. and And there's the Harry Palmer films with Michael Caine, like The Ippercrass File. Oh, I have seen them.
00:24:37
Speaker
Yes. The one where he, like, they fuck with him too much, and he's like, just leave me alone, goddammit. They push him too far. ah Yes, that's right.
00:24:49
Speaker
yeah i like yeah mine like Michael Caine, is he not in the original Italian job, is he? that Michael Caine? Yes, that's him. Yeah, that movie has such a weird ending.
00:25:02
Speaker
Have ever seen it? I've seen the one with Mark Wahlberg. It just ends with a bus teetering on the edge of a mountain. And it just cuts to black and it's like, did they fucking get off the bus? Yeah, they didn't know how to end it.
00:25:13
Speaker
They literally had a script written where they escaped, but they didn't know where to go for with that. It's just like, we'll just have them on the end of the cliff. We'll just leave it as virtual cliffhanger. I always just, when I finished it, I was like, this is like the most blue ball movie I've ever seen in my life. because It's like the whole end, like the, I want to say maybe even 20 minutes of the, of the end of the film. It's just this huge chasing Everyone is trying to get them. And then they get they get like all these little Mini Coopers or Minis or whatever they are. And they're driving around this town and they're all trying to s escape this elaborate heist.
00:25:44
Speaker
And then they get on the bus and they're like, pardon it up. Like we made it on the bus. And then like the bus goes around the corner and it's just like teetering on the edge. It's like, do they fall off? do they A true cliffhanger. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. And then it just ends. And I'm just like, oh.
00:26:01
Speaker
what like i just like i'm so tense like you're like like the whole it's like you're just like gripping your seat like do they get away do they get away and they're like you don't know yeah yeah that's interesting wow the seven yeah it's like a lot of films ended like like a vanishing point i don't if you guys ever saw vanishing oh yes yes yeah it's like this movie it's this big build up this big big build up it's like is he gonna get away and it's just like then he just fucking explodes i'm like what fuck fuck he vanished all right jesus that was the point he vanished several pieces he was all over the place yeah so that's and that's i always love that like because there's like the staples that everyone knows like of course everyone else like to you know from russia with love you know goldfinger but
00:26:51
Speaker
But, and you know, then you you hit, ah like you were saying, like flyn I've never even heard of that film. and like i now I want to like go and watch it. And and like the the like the cop shows, like those might be a little bit harder to track down. but Well, in English cop shows. Yeah, English cop shows.
00:27:08
Speaker
Yeah, they're very different from American ones. But I did like some of the American ones. Yeah. That's awesome. There was one called The Professionals. You've probably never heard of it.
00:27:19
Speaker
Nope. It was two guys and their boss who was very sort of stern and Scottish. And um they weren't exactly MI6, but they weren't exactly the police either.
00:27:31
Speaker
so Oh, interesting. It was quite gritty for a time. so Yeah. Yeah, I was kind of like that. We'd drawn a lot from that. Yeah. that's really cool. And then I mean, of course, the all-girl teams, that's that's awesome. Yeah. like Yeah, absolutely.
00:27:50
Speaker
There's a lot of fun, I think, to be had there. I like the all-girl teams. um when you when you do When you do like that, do you try to like stay away from like oh that the the stereotype like the stereotype where it's like, oh, it's like the Spice Girls. like There's like the sporty one and the scary one and punky originally.
00:28:08
Speaker
Yeah, originally, when we were doing the notes before we actually did the first draft, there were five of them. um But we've sort of, like you say, just went into that category of everyone was cliched.
00:28:22
Speaker
So we sort of shaved it down a bit into four. um And it seems to have worked. um It's very important that we gave them lots of dialogue and backstory.
00:28:34
Speaker
um We still need to do sort of a bit more with a couple of the other characters.
00:28:41
Speaker
with Gabby for instance her backstory is sort of really explained really well but not so much the others so that's something we'll do okay yeah because Gabby was kind of coming off to me as the ah the lead even though it's an ensemble correct yes that's right yeah it does come across that way because she's narrating the beginning but um Yeah, we'll explore the other characters as we go.
00:29:04
Speaker
Yes. Yeah, yeah. So with the graphic ah with the graphic novel, i feel you have a lot more like room to have more pages. How do you like address the that that economy of where it's like backstory versus remaining keeping the plot going and all that? Because you you're trying to tell the story in three issues. Yeah.
00:29:25
Speaker
um yeah Can you like talk about that a little bit? like What were your thought process on, well, we don't want to just like have a whole issue where it's just backstory, where nothing in plot moves forward.
00:29:37
Speaker
I think that's why the first three issues are so long, especially part three, because it's nearly 90 pages. um That's awesome, though. Yeah, yeah, of course.
00:29:48
Speaker
But um there's a lot of um explanation, lots of juxtaposition explaining who they are. And the other characters as well. There's some characters that come into part three you've not seen yet.
00:30:03
Speaker
So we have to explain those as well. and So, yeah, um it is is it is a bit of a balance because... You want to go straight to the action, but got to sort of explain why. so yeah. Yeah.
00:30:19
Speaker
It is tricky. But um we as each issue's gone along, we've sort of got better at it, I think. Especially with the next two stories, which we've already you've written.
00:30:30
Speaker
So...
00:30:33
Speaker
sort of put a little microscope on each one of them in each episode in each issue now yeah that's yeah oh that's interesting maybe like I'm just thinking like if you did four you could have done like like dedicated like one to each character kind of thing yes I think that was the original plan but it was like we're doing three this is crazy like 90 pages like that's like a book we wanted to do more but it's just like of course yeah we gotta pay the artists as well oh yeah that's the other issue huh
00:31:07
Speaker
Well, the pound is so much stronger. yeah And, you know, it's like pennies on the dollar, right? Like, that's a production.
Publishing and Sci-Fi Approach
00:31:13
Speaker
Like, like well for our feature, ah like, all of our, we outsource just because it's like, it kind of goes farther. Like, we hired Australian artists.
00:31:24
Speaker
And it's like, oh, right, cool. the American dollar is like almost like 20, it's like almost like a quarter more for per every Australian dollar. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, they're getting rich and we're saving a buck. It's like, you know, it's a... I mean, that's what's so awesome about like, and I kind of want to ask you about this too, what your experience is like.
00:31:45
Speaker
Essentially, the internet has provided this ability to really globalize collaboration. How did you find your artists? Like, were you involved in that? Like, or like, ah how does that go? I wasn't, I wasn't directly. um Charlie had a little fudge around on Fiverr.
00:32:05
Speaker
fat He found them, he found them on Fiverr, John and Nicholas. um And they're great. I mean, they do artwork for FIFA. Oh, okay.
00:32:16
Speaker
Even animations for FIFA, I think. I think I've seen at least two of them. What's FIFA? Football. Sorry, American. mean soccer. Soccer, darling. Yeah, there you go. Thank you.
00:32:30
Speaker
um So, yeah. um They were sort of like, oh, okay. Crazy English people. when i to Yeah, okay. And they read it. By sort of the end of the first part, they're going, oh, yeah, actually, this was really cool.
00:32:44
Speaker
And they pretty much s nailed the look of the girls within the first few pages. Yeah, and they come with that comes across in the trailer too. i was like, yeah this is cool. it's like I love the vibe. um Big fan of the vibe. love the trailers. I like the 8-bit one. Do you do the trailers? yes Yes, I pretty much put them all together.
00:33:06
Speaker
Charlie just sort of does the sound, and we have our own musician, Dan Wilde. He does all the music. They're awesome. and There's like one where I was just like, this is so Tarantino.
00:33:17
Speaker
like yes ask and I was like this is cool and then the other like each one is like a different style and I was like this is fucking awesome like congrats this you did really good um cool I really I do really enjoy the going through that I was like you should just I was like waiting for like I thought one of them would be like the whole thing because i was like damn Come on, give it to me. like i want like Maybe you could like animate or like do a whole trailer for like, maybe you don't want to give away the whole book. But have you ever thought about getting into like the filmmaking and doing that all the way? Yeah, have. Absolutely.
00:33:51
Speaker
Yeah, of course. Of course I have. Yeah. and It's just... It's on the shelf to pursue it more. But with this, it's... it's on the shelf to see whitmore but with this is It's a full-time job.
00:34:05
Speaker
yeah but Even though I don't get much much money for at the moment. But yes, I mean, it's something I'd like to pursue. something I'd like to pursue, certainly.
00:34:16
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, I kind of want to swing it also to like Contract Clause, and the the Saxon it ah anthology. Oh, yes, okay. Yeah, I was i was reading it a little bit through because they're on Kindle Unlimited.
00:34:33
Speaker
and so I have that. So I was like just kind of skimming through it and try I was like, damn, I should have read this before. should have finished it before. And I was like. Yeah, Tom was sending me little snippets. He was like, hey, buddy, check this out. Yeah, there's a line, dialogue in the second one.
00:34:48
Speaker
We have a film called Dickhead, and the killer's name is Tom. And it's like, Tom, you still want that dickhead? And was like, it's destined for us to talk. And we know someone named Josh. Yeah. And I was like, it's that's so funny. like The universe is so so weird how it works.
00:35:02
Speaker
But yes those are self-published on Amazon? Yes, yeah. um and What was that process like? Pretty much. um It's quite easy, actually.
00:35:13
Speaker
I don't know what this sort of distribution is like. basically... i basically put two my scripts up just to get like an author's account just so I could be named as the co-author Girls on Tour.
00:35:28
Speaker
That's the only reason I put those scripts on there. Oh, interesting. Okay. They've sold, you know, they've sold a few. It's been quite good, quite positive. So yeah, I'll probably, I always plan to do three of them.
00:35:42
Speaker
Oh, okay. i Yeah. Yeah. i would be and yeah i was like I was getting into it. i was like, oh, this is cool. I like the devil. I like the devil stories. I like that. And the actress character is very interesting. And I was like, okay.
00:35:58
Speaker
It's quite funny because she's like, after my daughter, my daughter read it. Yeah. What? Oh, I mean, it's right up my alley. Yeah. yeah um Yeah, so that okay that's cool. So interesting, that that was kind of part of getting ah the co-authorship for Girls on Tour. That's interesting.
00:36:17
Speaker
So with Girls on Tour, I noticed... ah Well, i want got kind of want to talk about... the the Saxon anthology a little bit too. um Like what, like, ah is that something that like, since you've posted it, like you could sell, or you are interested in selling to like a filmmaker or is that, is it just like you said, just there for.
00:36:37
Speaker
it's it just something to get my work out there. Because I've noticed many people say, I can't get my script. seen And I haven't got an agent. So rather than go knocking on people's doors, why not put it in a book and put it on them Amazon?
00:36:53
Speaker
Oh, yeah. that's like that's I think that's a really smart way. And we don't have agents either. They're just probation officers. so Yeah. Yeah, they cost lot. Yeah.
00:37:04
Speaker
Well, yeah, because ah tom Tom has a book of his scripts, and it's like, oh, maybe we can go about that way to maybe get his book out there a little bit more. Yeah.
00:37:15
Speaker
Yeah, why not? yeah it's just Yeah, it's very interesting. And ah i was just like, damn, like there I don't think I've ever seen anything like this on Amazon. And I guess maybe it's an underutilized ah use of the platform.
00:37:31
Speaker
It's a place to host your your screenplays. um And like you said, you've had a couple ah couple sales. i mean I mean, to make even a dollar off your work, that's ah you know it's a yeah ah step in the right direction.
00:37:48
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. And you cut out a lot of the middle band as well with publishers and everything like that. I mean, Amazon, they do take a cut. Of course they do. You still make a few bucks.
00:37:59
Speaker
Yeah. I'm sure it's like 90%, those fuckers. butut but Well, it's about 65%, but yeah. Oh my God, really? Wow. That's brutal. Yeah, that is brutal.
00:38:11
Speaker
Damn. And they don't do anything but host. They only take a tiny bit off Kindle. so Oh, okay. You get pretty much all of it from the Kindle sound. Yeah, because I know at one point we were recommending people, I believe Amazon was selling like a software for script writing, right?
00:38:30
Speaker
Mm-hmm. And we were suggesting people to do that. But I think part of the stipulation with using their program was they had first rights on your film. Yeah. And then, you know, who knows what they're offering you at that point.
00:38:43
Speaker
I mean, yeah, it's a great opportunity, but at the same time, you know, kind of like the story of making that deal with the devil a little bit. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
00:38:55
Speaker
oh We all got to make our deals with the devil. I mean, if it's on Amazon, it's going be somebody. um with Yeah, that's true. Somebody horny. um
00:39:06
Speaker
Sorry, my apologies. This whiskey is doing something wrong. This is Switch Shadows podcast. I had no idea. Really, I had no idea. My absolute apologies.
00:39:18
Speaker
I don't know anything. It's going for me. Yeah, um so with to go back to the anthology, so yeah is that the so that third story, is that going to continue on with the same kind of trajectory?
00:39:31
Speaker
I like the second one a lot. Oh, really? like Well, I think I just like was like, oh, I identified it. It's like about like two filmmakers. like One goes missing. i was like, oh, really? One goes missing, huh? Yeah. you know he He poked around where he should. That's all. Uh-oh.
00:39:48
Speaker
Yeah, you got to be careful when you go. Yeah, the whole thing came from, um I was bored one summer and there's a YouTube channel with loads of conspiracy films and videos on there.
00:40:01
Speaker
And you get drawn into it. You know all this bullshit. It's like, yeah, okay, interesting, interesting, interesting. So I thought, right, let's make this company, this fake company, let's do three stories about it.
00:40:15
Speaker
And I'll make one a horror, I'll make one a sci-fi, and I'll make one a thriller. yeah Oh, that's cool. The thriller is to come. Yeah. Yeah. Because I didn't want to make the same sort of genre each time.
00:40:25
Speaker
Yeah, definitely. I just wanted to make that one a horror, make that one a sci-fi, make that one a thriller. So, yeah, yeah. So then you really like dabbling in the different genres there? Yeah. was going to ask how you approach that.
00:40:37
Speaker
um I guess because I sort of... da I like sci-fi, I like horror, and I like spoilers. I suppose I sort of weave between the three.
00:40:49
Speaker
And they sort of all resonate with storytelling for me.
00:40:57
Speaker
I'm curious, like when you go with sci-fi, because what it's probably like one of my favorite genres. Like when you are approaching writing a sci-fi story, I don't know if you have a lot of like, like a lot of just like sci-fi stories that you have been written. have written But like what like, how is it like, do you take like technology to a point where it's like just a little bit futuristic or like it's so far out there futuristic or like, where do you like to play with your sci-fi? Yeah.
00:41:24
Speaker
um I'd like to take ideas that are theoretical, but don't over explain them. um If you can make it believable without going into it too much, make it sound like Clown Trap or rubbish, then yeah it it you can make it resonate with somebody.
00:41:45
Speaker
um I've seen a lot of films where the idea is too much. Yeah. And it's over explained. And it's over explained so much it's confusing.
00:41:56
Speaker
Well, that's always a pitfall with sci fi, right? I mean, yeah, just getting in like a little too in depth because it's like, well, if you knew all this, I mean, you'd solve all the problems already. yeah Exactly. yeah Especially with with sci-fi writing, like when you get on it when they're like talking about like different kinds of particles, and it's like you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. like K-On! Particles or whatever the hell it is. This is what's powering our drive to fold space and time. And you're just like, what? yeah um you Just say you can fold space and time. like You don't need to give us like yeah the science behind it. What?
00:42:34
Speaker
Yeah, like if you are if you go punk, like steampunk, or what's like Blade Runner, right? Because it's a... Cyberpunk. Yeah, more or less. You know, you yeah can't get too deep into the weeds with a lot of those, because... Especially with, yeah you know, like steampunk or cyberpunk, because it's ah it's a little outdated too within itself, right?
00:42:51
Speaker
Well, that's why i like Philip K. Dick a lot too. is Oh, yeah. mark Oh, yeah. Because he... Like, it's kind of grounded, and you use the sci-fi to just like... ah to like make it just... ah It's the veneer.
00:43:04
Speaker
Yes, exactly. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. yeah I love, ah do enjoy Dream of Electric Sheep? I know the movie's a lot, Blade Runner's a lot different, but the book itself is very interesting with its thing on empathy and what it really means to be a person.
00:43:21
Speaker
I didn't read the book until much later after I saw the film, so I enjoyed the book more, actually. Yeah. But I i enjoyed both of them as sort of separate entities. Yeah, they're very different.
00:43:32
Speaker
I've been reading – well, I didn't finish it, but I was reading Man in the High Castle. And oh right I was just blown away by the writing just itself. I mean, I was – I mean, I got to have a dictionary with that one. what's this word mean? I don't know. and You know, because I think I – I don't know. My ego – I don't know if ego is the right word, but I just get a little – I don't know, pretentious when it comes to genre, specifically like sci-fi. I'm like, eh, sci-fi, writing, whatever. And then I read ah Philip K. Dick and I was like, oh my God, this this is amazing writing.
00:44:11
Speaker
Just literary, you know, just just a structure of the sentences and everything and and the word usage. It's just like, wow, this this is amazing.
00:44:21
Speaker
um Same thing with ah I Am Legend. i I can't think of the writer right now. But I just read that recently. And at the end of the film, are the end of the film, the end of the book, I mean, I was just blown away.
00:44:32
Speaker
And it kind of like, it almost feels like it jumps the shark a little bit with but where it goes at the very end. For sure, yeah. But it's just so well written that you're just engrossed throughout the entirety of it. And it's just like, okay, wow. these I see why you know these are your modern some of your modern masterpieces here, especially with Philip K. Dick. I mean, I was...
00:44:53
Speaker
I was just astonished by his writing. It's some of the best writing I've read recently. I think because he has just lot of the human element rather than making it all sci-fi.
00:45:04
Speaker
I mean, you know it's sci-fi, but it doesn't make it sort of too technical. It drives the story with human emotion. Yeah, it's very humanistic, right? And that's something that you can just really latch on to and just be moved by.
00:45:20
Speaker
So yeah, i was it humbled me quite a bit um reading him. And then you know I started looking at him up more and was like, oh man, he's dead. like oh Oh no. When you only read the great Star Wars adapted novels, dude, you got it branch out a little bit. No, Goosebumps. That's what I read, buddy.
00:45:37
Speaker
You know, damn, man. Curse of the Mummy. Curse of the Mummy, huh? Or the W, I don't remember. You don't remember the Goosebump book? Oh, that was so long ago.
00:45:49
Speaker
R.L. Stine. um So, Danielle, ah yeah with theater... What was your, what's your background with that? Like, what was your theater life?
00:46:01
Speaker
um Did you do all different sorts of aspects with it? um Yeah. I got into it with my mom and dad and then I sort of, they sort of moved on to other theaters and other groups. I stayed with the theater that eventually gave me job. So that's about 18, 19 when I started.
00:46:21
Speaker
eighteen nineteen i started And I sort of learned the ropes, anything from backstage to the flies, the wings, the soundboard, the lights, rigging.
00:46:36
Speaker
Oh, wow. Yeah. So then you did a little a little bit of everything because – Yeah. Is that correct? Because I took a theater class to work in – I don't know what you call it, but the technical side of theater.
00:46:49
Speaker
So they were showing us like rigging lights and um working like soundboard and the light cues and all of that. And I wanted to get into it more because I just feel like there's a – a natural, well, there's just an overlap with theater and filmmaking.
00:47:06
Speaker
um Would you say that's so? Yeah. I mean, it's two different mediums, but essentially they do the same thing. They perform drama.
00:47:18
Speaker
Yeah. So, yeah. And you still learn your lines. You still, i just the only thing that's different is you act live or perform live. Yeah. It's just film, you just do another take.
00:47:32
Speaker
But yeah, I mean, you still do the same amount of energy and work. It's just a different medium.
Theatrical Influences and Storytelling
00:47:38
Speaker
Yeah, because I think i I see theater as a high art. um And I've kind of been thinking just thinking on my own end of...
00:47:47
Speaker
Making films more like a stage play. What's that? Do you know that film is called where they like just drew out the outlines of buildings and then they had the actors like in a black space and it's like, oh, this is the house and you see like the outline of it and they're not actually there. Like there's no houses around them, but it's more like a stage. do Have you seen that film, Tom?
00:48:10
Speaker
No? I have no idea what you're talking about. The artist? No, no. It's a film. know. But I've been really curious about that because I saw Anna Karenina, the latest one. yeah.
00:48:24
Speaker
With... um ah Pirates Caribbean. Oh, I almost said Kylie Minogue, but that's not her. Ooh, Kylie Minogue. What is her name?
00:48:36
Speaker
Keira Knightley. Keira Knightley, thank you. And, um you know, they they kind of made that like a stage play, um and that's... ah one of the hallmarks to that film that they credited themselves for.
00:48:51
Speaker
And when you watch it, it's like, okay, yeah, I kind of feel like this is a little bit of a stage play, even though it's film. And I, I just loved it. I mean, I fell, I fell in love with that kind of approach to filmmaking. And so I've always just been, i mean, just cause you know, Tom and I were still developing as filmmakers and learning how to do this thing better.
00:49:13
Speaker
And I just, for me personally, i feel like theater is ah the where to start that foundation.
00:49:23
Speaker
um I'm not sure why, but i just I just feel like that's where it's at for some reason. It was a long way. Yeah. I mean, it was a long way around for me, but it seemed to work for me that way.
00:49:35
Speaker
but Yeah. What are some of your favorite stage plays or just theater shows? um I've seen a couple of Andrew Lloyd Webbers. They were really good.
00:49:46
Speaker
Oh, that's what I grew up to. Yeah. Phantom of the Opera. Yeah. Starlight Express. Les Miserables. Les Miserables Live is an experience.
00:49:58
Speaker
Oh, wow. Yeah. The film's good. The film's good. But the the stage show is awesome. Yeah. that That's one of my dreams is to to watch that one. Yeah. yeah But kind of coming, breaking it sort of down a level, ah just Stephen's stage plays.
00:50:14
Speaker
ah Where I live in Chittista on the South Coast, we have a festival theatre. um It's quite well known in England. but um But I was fortunate enough to see, we have a we used to have an actor here called Jeremy Brackley who played Sherlock Holmes.
00:50:30
Speaker
Oh, okay. He got ill and had to leave the show. But then six months later, he did a stage show of a new piece that he did. He did it live.
00:50:41
Speaker
And there was only him and the guy who played Dr. Watson in it. But it was very confined set. like Was it like a black box theater then? um No, it's quite a big um auditorium, but the stage is quite small.
00:50:55
Speaker
Oh, interesting. It's like a round, it's like a theater in the round. so it's quite open. Wow, yeah. Yeah. and So it's very minimal set. and But that was amazing.
00:51:06
Speaker
I think that's the best live play I've ever seen. Wow. Yeah. I feel like the only thing I know about theater is like Harold Pinter. No idea.
00:51:18
Speaker
he's He's writing some good stuff, but very strange. Yeah, very strange man. and But yeah, well, of course, in Shakespeare. um yeah But yeah, yeah like yeah Andrew Lloyd Webber, I was like, who is that? I'm trying to think. i was like And then he says, Phantom of the Opera.
00:51:33
Speaker
I thought that was like 10,000 years old. like Andrew Lloyd Webber sounds fairly recent in my head. I'm not trying to picture like how old yeah he is. He adapted the story into a musical. Oh, okay, okay, okay. i was like That was like one of the most successful ever, at least financially. Yeah.
00:51:48
Speaker
Yeah, I've seen the Lon Chaney one and that's about like it for. And I love it. That's one of the ones I saw in LA. Um. was Andrew Lloyd Webber. That was probably the first play I ever saw was Phantom of the Opera. And I was just mesmerized because I i think I saw it like at four years old.
00:52:06
Speaker
Four. That's how I remember. You would at that age, yeah. It's just like, wow, wow. Yeah, yeah. yeah i was just like, I was completely blown away. Maybe that's kind of where my reverence comes from for theater within filmmaking.
00:52:19
Speaker
um Yeah. But also, you know, i just, I love the slowness Of the theater in a sense where like if a character has to go across a room to grab something, you actually see that, you know, whereas in a film you would just kind of cut that in between of them walking across the room and then just cut to whatever they're doing.
00:52:39
Speaker
um and Yeah. And, you know, one of my biggest issues with modern filmmaking is just how much cutting there is. You know, everything's just like so snappy, so like fast, kind of like the substance, you know? I mean, now within the substance, I think it works because it's delivered in that style. But you see so many other films um like Tom and I, we were talking about because we'd like to watch the Oscar films and then discuss the best pictures.
00:53:08
Speaker
And we saw Amelia Perez on the same day. And that film has like a lot of fast cutting. and um And like I said, I've been on this 90s nostalgia kick and and I've also been watching a lot of older movies from there. and older movies from the night No, no, no, no. Not 90s, but I mean all older like older.
00:53:28
Speaker
Like I just saw Rebel Without a Cause. Please don't tell me 90 movies are old. well, they are. But I just saw Rebel Without a Cause not too long ago for the first time. And I watched Gone with the Wind for the the entirety for the first time. um Yeah, that's a heavy watch. It's heavy watch.
00:53:44
Speaker
Yeah, you know, and those are just, they're just slower films. And I just kind of love that, you know, and and and it makes me just think of theater. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
00:53:54
Speaker
No, I totally get that. Yeah. Yeah. So some of my favorite, some of my favorite films are from the sixties seventies, even though. Yeah. We're big seventies nerds here on the, on twin shadows.
00:54:06
Speaker
I mean, from alien to all that jazz. Oh, all that jazz. I love that. Yeah. All that jazz. I love all that jazz. It's such a good fucking, it's so good. It's ridiculously good, you know?
00:54:18
Speaker
You're just like, Bob Fosse isn't human. like He's like an alien from like another planet. like I don't know. Yeah. He's on a whole different level, isn't he? Yeah. yeah and it's like And it's like meta before people were saying meta.
00:54:33
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, suppose it is in a way. Yeah, because, right, it's like Cabaret had just come out. And it's yeah kind of like... his response to cabaret. And you're like, what the fuck, dude? Like, how are you doing this? Like, oh my God. And like cabaret is so good.
00:54:50
Speaker
And all that jazz is so good. And it's like, shit, dude. And also like a level of courage to show a film like that. Like going back to your um girls on tour, you know, like, I, I, I saw the, cause you know, on your Amazon, you have yeah yeah a quick, uh,
00:55:11
Speaker
like JPEG of one of the panels. Oh, the thumbnails. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The thumbnails. and And it showed like, um I'm a whore like a jet fighter pilot. Something, know, I'm paraphrasing that. yeah yeah But, you know, just to depict something like that, you know, i dont i I don't know. It feels treacherous in this time to just show like that level of liberty, especially with ah women, you know, to to essentially show whores and to not show it in the negative, you know. And yeah also like the backlash you can face with that.
00:55:51
Speaker
We were worried about that, but we sort of reminded Charlie that basically Pretty Woman, the film Pretty Woman, is pretty much about a prostitute who gets pimped by a really rich person.
00:56:04
Speaker
Well, you know, if that rich person was Richard Gere, I'd let him pi pimp me out a little bit. I'd be like, okay, just be gentle. Yeah, you know, I know had never seen Pretty Woman for the longest time.
00:56:14
Speaker
And I think I watched it like a couple of years ago. Oh, it's great. And I was just like, one yeah, it's it's ah it's a great movie. But at the same time, you're just like, what the fuck? I mean, yeah it' like that sort of thing just never happens. Yeah. Right? And it kind of made me think of like Breakfast at Tiffany's, which is kind of a similar setup. And it's like, yeah Audrey Hepburn, like, there is like no universe where Audrey Hepburn's a sex worker, right? Like, she's just, so she's just like the epitome of like soft and innocent. But it's like, that's not necessarily anti-sex work. It's like,
00:56:51
Speaker
It's interesting because then you're like, you know, you see like a more modern take of that, which is like a pretty woman type of story. And Julia Roberts and Richard Gere, it's like two absolutely gorgeous people. And it's like, you know, there's nothing wrong with this.
00:57:04
Speaker
i love i I like them. Like, Breakfast of Tiffany's is still good. It's just like, I just, man, it's like, man. Make legal in the States is what I say. But I'm just thinking like, you know, like Audrey Hepburn, you know, Roman Holiday. It's like.
00:57:19
Speaker
I'm a big fan. Is that what Roman Holiday No, no, no, no, no. but She's a princess. She's in Roman Holiday, right? It's like that's like the same like actress, you know? Yeah. Yeah. And it's ah it's fascinating. But I think it ah it also is like, there's a perception of what is okay and what's not okay. And I think that's kind of bullshit.
00:57:38
Speaker
I think you just have to like tell your story and be honest. And... ah I don't think it necessarily... like It's like you don't need to be like applauded to be courageous to tell a story about people that are, you know, a real story.
00:57:51
Speaker
i don't know, maybe... um yeah you can you Can you talk about that a little bit? like Because you were saying you guys were you had a some trepidation about it. Or a discussion. I mean, pretty much from what you were saying.
00:58:04
Speaker
But um the important thing was... yeah As soon as we made the characters, we've got to humanize them. We've to make them likable.
00:58:14
Speaker
So by the end of the story, you forget they're sex workers. You just see them as women. Yeah. And I think that's, and I mean, I'm going to order of the books like as soon as we're done on this, because I want to, I want to like just support you and um make sure that, you know, i get the full story because I've only got a little bit of snippets from ah some of the posts.
00:58:34
Speaker
um yeah Is it just paperback that you can get it from or do you guys, I mean, I don't think there's a digital version. at the moment, yeah, it's just paperback. think after we've done the next story in the summer, will I think we're going to consider doing it digitally because we wanted to get it out there.
00:58:53
Speaker
Yeah. and And then is that through Amazon as well? Like the paperback production and how does how did that kind of come about? mostly Amazon at the moment, but we have a publisher.
00:59:05
Speaker
um who not only goes to Amazon, but several companies in Europe and Japan now. So it's not just Amazon, but I'd about 60% is. Yeah.
00:59:19
Speaker
yeah That's awesome. So if I if i buy it, ah you'll sign it for me, yes? Oh, absolutely. Whenever we're out in... I'll get Charlie to sign it.
00:59:29
Speaker
Whenever we cross the pond. and Or does it come from you guys? You guys pack you guys don't package and ship them, right? there um No, just ah um not publisher, distributor, sorry. I dist distributed it. Yeah, okay.
00:59:42
Speaker
we We had and some gratis copies when we started, but they're all gone now. Yeah, I was going to say, I think it was a couple of years ago, right, that the first issue came out, like 2023 or 2022? 23, yes, 23. Yeah, i remember I was looking it up. and i was So this is your, to come back to, like, real life, this is what you do, right? Do you have a day job? Oh, yeah, I have a day job. It's not very glamorous, though.
01:00:17
Speaker
Hey, we all have day jobs. I'm curious, though. Yeah, what's the day job? What's the day job? I work for a cleaning company. Okay. yeah And then you go home like and write. Because ah one of the things I always tell people is find a job where you can do, like, kind of do what, like...
01:00:33
Speaker
Like work behind a desk or something where you can write while you're not working. Yeah. Quote unquote, because it's so hard to like, like we have families, we have kids and sometimes if you have less free time at home than you do at work. And yeah. Yeah. um Yeah.
01:00:50
Speaker
I mean, it's such a juggling act and you can write anywhere. Like for the most part, you can write anywhere. um Yes, that's true.
Writing Discipline and Routines
01:00:58
Speaker
That's true. And I think, and I'm curious to know, like, what's your discipline is like for writing? Like, do you try to write every day? Do you have, do you set goals? Do you have a, like, can you talk a little bit about that?
01:01:11
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, it's different on every, every project, but I try to do at least four hours every time or every day. Wow, four hours a day. That's a lot.
01:01:22
Speaker
Yeah. and I write better at night. I feel you on that. think everybody does. There's something about the moon. and When I've had my dinner and I've watched a couple of programs on TV, it's just like eight o'clock to two in the morning.
01:01:36
Speaker
Just bam, bam, bam, bam. Wow, that's beautiful. Yeah, I feel like all my best writing also comes at night. um I'll say mine came out pretty because I started to get healthy.
01:01:46
Speaker
And so I was writing in the day, like first thing I woke up. yeah And that yielded really good results. um But... I'm just so, it's just so natural for me to write at night, you know, like you said, Tom, with that moon, there's just some romanticism to it, especially when everything's quiet and you can just focus on the work in front of you. i don't know. I love it, but I did notice that for me, writing first thing in the morning, um yielded really amazing results.
01:02:19
Speaker
But unfortunately I haven't kept that discipline. it's Really amazing, Yeah. Well, for me, I'm cranking it out, huh, buddy? Uh-oh. I'm getting a troll. This is where I disappear. but This is Stephen's Vanishing Point. um It's all right, buddy. Just drive right into that police brigade. You've never seen a Vanishing Point, huh?
01:02:40
Speaker
No, I haven't. But, you know, when I was writing, ah because, you know, when I write, because, i've you know, it's like working out. You've got to put in the time. Yeah. And so when I write, sometimes I'll just write for the sake of writing, just gibberish. Yeah. ah But I was working on a few short stories and I actually completed one um that I'm trying to get published.
01:03:02
Speaker
And I have another one that I'm ah trying to edit. Yeah. But, you know, like I was just scribbling essentially and I was writing about ah man who sees people disappear down an alleyway and he's curious.
01:03:17
Speaker
And then the story is like he goes down the alleyway and there's nothing. It's just people walking to the other side. yeah But just just writing for the sake of writing – but You know, that's that's just important because it just keeps you sharp. which ah you know and you know, when you read your work and you look back and you're going over again, you're like, oh, God. i you can You can feel when the writing sucks.
01:03:42
Speaker
You know what I'm saying? Oh, yes. ah no I've been there many times. Yeah, you're like, I just wasn't feeling it here. But also then sometimes, you know, you go back when you're not feeling it and you just look at it. You're like, oh, you know,
01:03:54
Speaker
It's not so bad. don't feel so bad. Yeah. Yeah. um So that that that's a hard – that's one thing I've been trying to learn to discipline myself is just the writing, just for the writing's sake, just to do those reps, get those reps in and get my workout done. And it's and insanely important. you know The hardest part is it is committing words to paper if you or are you know to text. I mean doesn't matter if you're typing it, if you're handwriting it.
01:04:23
Speaker
you know if you're you know If you just ate some crayons and you're you know dipping your finger in your mouth and you're writing some words, it don't matter. um As long as you're just actually getting it out there, i think.
01:04:34
Speaker
Or just doing it, just for the sake of doing it. like i mean, the as ah real avenue to success is the boring. you know It's just doing it.
01:04:47
Speaker
Doing it over and over and over. yeah And then if you come commit to that and you have that discipline, you're going to succeed. yeah How often have you seen people that are like, I finished my first short i finished my first short story. like Where are my awards? I'm like, you're first? That's it? Yeah.
01:05:05
Speaker
There are some people who who accomplish that. I mean, look at Citizen Kane. You know, without a doubt. I always tell people, do not ever judge yourself against fucking Citizen Kane. Yes, Orson Welles was 24. Yes, he, you know, he made, like, it's like Citizen Kane is like a supernova. Like, it doesn't just happen every day. Like, do not judge yourself to Citizen Kane. Don't judge yourself to Kurosawa. Don't judge yourself to Kubrick.
01:05:32
Speaker
Don't judge yourself to, like, you know, Fellini. Do we not hold ourselves to those standards? You can hold yourself to the standards, but... yeah you know You know, they they say like you miss every shot you don't take, but it's like like sometimes you want to like shoot for it. When you play darts, you got to go for like the 30 every now and then. like You don't always have to go for the bullseye. Yeah, that's actually the point. Sometimes just getting on the board is all you need. you know like Holy shit. That's true. I think it's it's ah it's dangerous. to
01:06:07
Speaker
Comparison is... what what's the ah There's ah an old adage. sh Comparison is the death of something. um I have no idea. Envy or jealousy is the comparisons that I don't fucking know. God damn it. I'm drunk.
01:06:20
Speaker
Fuck.
01:06:23
Speaker
florida yeah ah Sorry, Daniel. I don't mean to welcome, but yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, like, it's like, just do like, tell your story. Like I remember, have to go on a little rant here for a second. If, if I can be allowed.
01:06:37
Speaker
And it was like, I said, like, fuck. Sorry. He wants to say like a lot less because we're from California. And of course, we're Valley girls. So we say like the worst thing that time ever could have happened is AI transcribes our podcast episodes when we post them.
01:06:55
Speaker
And I did a search for how many times he said like, and we had a an hour and 30 minute episode and we said like 710 times. And I was like, we need to like get like You just said like twice. We need like, we need dog collars to like shock ourselves every time we say like, uh, Danielle, you can participate if you want to shock us remotely from England. You know, we'll just get like little dog collars. Every time you hear us say like, just shock us. Yeah. Just give us a little zap. Yeah.
01:07:22
Speaker
And I was looking at, i was like trying to make sure we didn't get one that was too strong or something. It's like, really just like tie it around our thigh or something. Yeah.
01:07:30
Speaker
It's like sometimes you know the best way to learn is through pain. ah But to get back to what I wanted to say about but writing and comparing yourself to – it's good to compare yourself to the greats because you want to be great yourself.
01:07:45
Speaker
But you have to also remember that nothing happens overnight. and Yeah. ah It's very important to – just be disciplined and to just keep going.
01:07:57
Speaker
Like you mentioned, you write- The tortoise and the hare. You know, you write for four hours. That's not easy. um It takes a lot to work up to that. I don't think I even have the stamina to write for four hours in a row anymore since the kids were born. Red red red wine helps.
01:08:15
Speaker
Yeah, no, it does. you know there's yeah There's a romanticism to the writing and alcohol, I'll admit. I can only do about two hours. Daniel, I'm curious to see what your your take on this is. I always say that a writer's biggest thing is you have to get out of your own way.
01:08:29
Speaker
A lot of the time, you just – ah You think, well, this is dumb. i can't do this. I can't do that. But it's just put it on paper, right? And see where it takes you. The most exciting part of writing is when the story tells you what it where it's going. But I'll say like alcohol does help you to get out of your way.
01:08:48
Speaker
you know Because I've noticed when I write sober, I'm like, oh, I can't say this. I can't do that. And then once yeah I'm drinking, like, I don't give a shit if I do this or that. I'm just going to write it. and and it was I put more swearing in when I've heard a drink. and When I'm straight, i was just like, no, no, I can't put that.
01:09:05
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. And you lose something there. I mean, you got to get rid of your inhibition with expressing yourself, you know, because yeah when you express yourself, I mean, obviously we all have our defense mechanisms. We have our walls put in place and, you know, they're good for protecting us. But when we want to get away from them, you got to jump over them and alcohol, everyone yeah out there. It'll do it.
01:09:33
Speaker
Yeah, I don't want to like necessarily – We don't want to promote alcoholism. No, no. Responsible drinking, of course. I mean, we almost finished a whole bottle whiskey just between this podcast.
01:09:46
Speaker
But – I hope. Danielle, yeah. yeah Well, moderation. I'm curious to know, like, what is your life? So you say you have this four hour writing. um What is it like? Do you just do you sit down and you start typing? Are you thinking about the story before time? Do you outline? Can you kind of walk us through? Also, do you tell the kids like, hey, this is my time. Stay away. My kids, my kids are grown up, so they work.
01:10:11
Speaker
OK, see, we're in the trouble where we got little ones. Yeah, they don't understand that. Three and seven, and they're demons. Yeah, I've done all that now. i've done what they yeah You want to trade? No, I don't want to do it again.
01:10:29
Speaker
Understandably understandable. Yeah. But yeah, no, like walk us through, walk us through like a day of writing ah for you if you can, you will, if you must. So I come home from a day job and then I but usually have coffee, latte something.
01:10:46
Speaker
And then I'll, I've got this great, great big playlist of soundtrack music on this PC. Oh, you got to tell us the soundtracks. We got to know. All of them.
01:10:57
Speaker
Let me see. Mostly James Horner, John Williams. Really? John Garfield. Yeah, yeah, yeah. James Bond. Oh, wait, sorry. what do Did you say, what he didn't
Movies, Music, and Writing Inspiration
01:11:11
Speaker
say James Bond? Sorry, it may have been. James Horner.
01:11:13
Speaker
James Horner. Oh, yes, yes, yes. Yeah. um And Pino DiNaggio, who did a lot of Brian De Palma's films. Yeah. Oh, yes.
01:11:24
Speaker
Some of his works is really good. I have mixed feelings on that. I'm curious to know. Sorry. Brian De Palma is a very source. He's a big source of contention for me. Oh, really?
01:11:35
Speaker
Because I love Brian De Palma and I hate Brian De Palma. Yes. I'm curious. he's like I think he said up that about himself in his documentary. Yeah. I'm just like, you know, every now and then I'm like, okay, sisters. I love sisters. Okay, cool.
01:11:51
Speaker
I love Dressed to Kill. I love Carrie, of course. And then it's... Scarface? I don't know if I love Scarface.
01:12:03
Speaker
um i think because that was his first first departure from his usual style. Yeah. Well, whaty okay. here's here's Here's the big Brian De Palma question. What do you think of Phantom of the Paradise?
01:12:16
Speaker
um I like it, but I'm not sure about it. um yes I watch it whenever it's on. And I like it because it's kitsch and kooky and very weird.
01:12:27
Speaker
Yeah. Frankenstein? or ah not Not Frankenstein. God, what is this name? but like The new hamburger? No. Yeah.
01:12:39
Speaker
Gosh, I'm such a loser. I can't remember what it like that lead singer that he comes in to oh it's not meat. What is it? Yes. Is it meat?
01:12:51
Speaker
I think it is. Yeah. And I'm just like, it's so weird. And it's like, I feel like you're cool if you like Phantom of the Paradise. And I'm like, I don't know if I'm cool enough to like Phantom of the Paradise because it's so fucking strange. and Yes.
01:13:07
Speaker
But like it's like, um I love ah the one with the drill the guy that drills through the... I can't think of what it's called right now. He like dresses up in an Indian mask and he's murdering all the women.
01:13:20
Speaker
oh Yes. Yes. God, the whiskey. I'm so sorry, Danielle. like But yeah, Ryan De Palma. Sorry, James Horner. You're talking about the soundtracks.
01:13:32
Speaker
I've been listening to Ecstasy of Gold, Innio Morricone, like every day. ah so okay. Just that one just that song. just as I've been listening to it like on repeat. And i'm just I feel like it's like it just fills me with something. Yeah.
01:13:46
Speaker
ah it's It's like, it reminds me of a little bit of Godzilla, which is weird. Like King Caesar when Mechagodzilla, that movie. Yeah, yeah. And I'm just like, God, dude, there's something about this song. Like, in him when a accord was he's like tapping into something.
01:13:58
Speaker
And I'm I wish he wasn't dead because like, I want to talk to him and like understand where he like he figured this stuff out. Same thing with Lynch's Antonio...
01:14:11
Speaker
Oh, yes. Yeah. Belladarce? Yes. i No. Yeah, something like that. Yeah. And it's just like... Bellamante. Yeah, Bellamante. It's like, you guys, they tapped into something. They figured something out.
01:14:23
Speaker
But yeah, sorry, you were saying James Horner, ah Carpenter. Do you listen to a specific Carpenter score? are you listening to like Lost Tracks, like his own music? um Some of his Lost Tracks, I'm... I especially like the score for Escape from New York. oh fuck yes.
01:14:39
Speaker
Sorry. I get excited. I love i love Carpenter. like i if you like my He's probably up there for my favorite directors. It's like Hayao Miyazaki, John Carpenter, yeah Billy Wilder.
01:14:52
Speaker
um yeah he Kubrick. I know people are like, you can't like Kubrick anymore. I'm like, why? I love Kubrick. Oh, you're not allowed to like Kubrick anymore? Don't make me sad.
01:15:04
Speaker
I love Cooper. James Horner, John Carpenter, who else who else are you listening to? talk Walk me through the day. Sorry, and I didn't mean to jump into so many tangents.
01:15:16
Speaker
Any of Morricone as well. um Mostly some stuff from Once Upon a Time in the West. Oh, yes. Harmonica score. Harmonica. oh my my God, that movie is so good. yeah That score is so good. so Hans Zimmer as well. Quite like Hans Zimmer.
01:15:35
Speaker
dogo Do you go for ah Interstellar? Do you go for... i love Interstellar, especially that docking sequence music. Yes, that score's good. One of Stephen and I's favorites is First Man.
01:15:48
Speaker
Have you heard the First Man? Oh, yeah. Clint Mansell? Yeah, yeah. That score, there's something about that that whole ah whole ah OST is so good. I write a lot to that. i write alert That and The Fountain by Clint Menzel. The Fountain is quite good, yeah. and Mine was ah Bram Stoker's Dracula by... closing um he He passed away not too long ago. um Yeah, you probably heard you pronounce his name. Jesus yeah Christ, dude. It's a hard name to pronounce.
01:16:18
Speaker
But that score, I mean, i listened to to just a score and it's like an adaptation of Dracula just by the by the music. it's It's probably my favorite of all time.
01:16:31
Speaker
Okay, so you pick up your score list yeah and then where do you go from there for writing? stick the headphones on. I've already got some ideas in my
Wine, Writing Preferences, and Partner Dynamics
01:16:40
Speaker
head and then I just type away and then occasionally get stuck.
01:16:46
Speaker
Then I'll open the wine. Yeah. and What's the wine? What's your go-to? Like what's like Merlot. That's how i know you're a wine drinker. I'm a Cabernet man.
01:16:58
Speaker
Oh, very nice. Yeah, but we're you're from California. California's got good cabs. Well, but Merlot is like the wine person's wine. it's like It's like whiskey or beer, you know, the more bitter.
01:17:12
Speaker
After a while, you you get away from the sweet stuff and you just get bitter. Yes. yeah Merlot is a little just too bitter for me. It's a little too dry. yeah But the cabs, like I like that little got the taste of sweetness. The sophistication.
01:17:28
Speaker
Which one? The Merlot. It's like sophisticated. Yes, it's the and it's the intellectual drink. That's always true. People are like, well, we drank wine, but then we had port for dessert. I'm like...
01:17:39
Speaker
you apparently porrk really I've never had port, but apparently it's a really sweet wine and really good. It's very sweet. It's okay. It's just not something drink all the time. I'm a whiskey guy. i mean I'll drink out of the toilet if I have to. Tom's from the US. He likes whiskey, bourbon, and scotch.
01:17:57
Speaker
No, I like bourbon. I just don't drink much of it. I prefer wine. it so yeah well Wine's a little safer. You're not going to like black out drinking a bottle of wine. It depends how much you have.
01:18:10
Speaker
i like I like to promote responsibility on the podcast, but it's like, you know, no do as I say, not as I do, because I'm ah i'm a lech. um yeah but Okay, so you've had you've you hit your block, you had some wine, you start writing. Do you edit while you write? Do you just kind of like try to let get into the flow state um and write? Like, how does that work for you?
01:18:32
Speaker
I usually get into a flow, and then a sometimes we get stuck, I'll just write a further scene down the road. Oh yeah, I love that. I love doing that.
01:18:44
Speaker
The last one it did ah the an a go um I did, I got stuck about quarter of the way through it, so I wrote the ending.
01:18:55
Speaker
And then I went back, and it was easier to write then. it' It's definitely easier to write when you know when you're going. yeah And there's something cool about knowing where you're going because then it's like the universe starts telling you like as well.
01:19:08
Speaker
Do you ever get that feeling when you're writing and like the universe is just like, it's like, I didn't know the story was going here. But all of a sudden you're typing and you're like, oh, this is happening now, I guess.
01:19:21
Speaker
Yes, I've had that a few times. yeah I love that feeling. That feeling is like that that feeling is ecstasy to me. yeah i Yeah. Sorry. hello i'm a big for I love thinking about writing and like just like the...
01:19:37
Speaker
Kind like the idea of it, too, is where it's like... yeah and A lot of people always ask, like where do your ideas come from? But it's like that's such a weird question. It's so yeah weird to like answer. like Where do your ideas come from? like It's like asking you, like why do you wake up in the morning?
01:19:53
Speaker
yeah I don't fucking know why I wake up in the morning. yeah I don't know why like all of a sudden I'm thinking about... whatever it is that I'm writing about. like it's just It just happened. It just comes to you, doesn't it? Sometimes it's a dream. Sometimes it's something you see in the street. Sometimes it's something you see on the bus.
01:20:10
Speaker
And sometimes like you hear overhear someone having a conversation and you're like, that was the weirdest way to word that I've ever heard in my life. I've got to write that down. ah do you keep yeah notes in your phone or how do you? I i have ah two big black books.
01:20:29
Speaker
One is full of girls and taught notes and the other is other script ideas. They're about inch and a half thick each. and The girls and taught one is quite nearly full up now.
01:20:41
Speaker
um Yeah, they're basically my Bible. but Yeah, that's awesome. you have It's all handwritten? Do you like handwriting? No. but Me neither.
01:20:55
Speaker
Stephen will swear by it for days. He is just ran off the check on the kids, but he'll swear by it for days. like he's like There's something about the connection between the writing, the words, and the handwriting. I'm just like, fuck that. It's so bull like it's so long. It takes forever to get anything out. i guess it's I guess it's different for everybody, isn't it? yeah It is, but they're they're wrong.
01:21:19
Speaker
it's like i i have efficiency matters to some degree i need to be able to actually read what i wrote as well and sometimes if i'm just jotting things down i'm like what was like i don't know if you've ever watched seinfeld Yes. There's an episode where he like woke up in the middle of the night and he wrote down like the greatest joke ever, but he can't read it. Oh, yes, that's right.
01:21:44
Speaker
And he's like, Elaine, what do you think this says? And she's like, I you don't know. And it's like off a commercial that he heard in the middle of the night or something. And then when he finally, I think at the end of the episode, he realizes it's not very funny, but it's like, damn, I've yeah had that experience a lot.
01:21:59
Speaker
Yes, when we were doing the notes for issue two of girls, we were quite drunk. yeah that We bashing were bouncing ideas off each other.
01:22:14
Speaker
And I wrote down what I thought was, yeah I looked at the next day and it's just gibberish. So I had to text or call Charlie say, what did I mean by this?
01:22:26
Speaker
That's yeah it's a lot of fun. and so you but so Do you write with ah with Charlie? Do you guys hang out and pop open a bottle of wine? Because that's pretty fun. He'll come down here every now and then and we'll just bash out the ideas for a new story. Then I'll do a first draft.
01:22:47
Speaker
He'll do a second draft. We'll do sort of the third draft together.
Story Expansion and Character Development
01:22:51
Speaker
How do you like writing with somebody? At first, it was a bit daunting because you always have your own ideas and ways of doing things.
01:22:59
Speaker
um I don't think I could do Girls Without Charlie and I don't think, sound bighead i don't think you could do it without me. It's just one of those things that just works between us.
01:23:11
Speaker
Yeah, definitely. I mean, and then like you said, you're the story – well, it's also like when you have – when you latch on to something like a premise or an idea that you're like, we have to do this. Like it's just – it's so – it's like it's starting it's starting to write itself as you're talking about it like as you're talking about it I'm like I'm seeing the story in my head like just as you're talking about it and you're like and that that collaboration kind of is like it grounds it in a sense as well
01:23:43
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. and It happens, yeah, pretty much. I think that's why we've written two stories already on top of this one, with ideas for about six more.
01:23:54
Speaker
So, you know. Yeah, absolutely. And then you're like, and as you're and because you're you're saying like, you know, You have your your base. you know You have your 60s detective stories and those police ah dramas that you were talking about.
01:24:07
Speaker
yeah And then as you write like away from those, it becomes more the story kind becomes its own. And you start both putting in your own input and your own story ideas. yeah Is that freeing to you? Or are you just like, I don't know where we can go? like you said you have more ideas for stories, but...
01:24:29
Speaker
every now and then you're like, oh wait, wait, wait. I don't know where, like, I guess I want to ask. I was worried about that when we were doing the first story. um But,
01:24:41
Speaker
but halfway through writing the whole first three. and It's sort of kept getting ideas for the stories that worked. I think there's about six six adventures at least where we can do it.
01:24:57
Speaker
Oh, yeah. Once you have the character, right? Once you have the characters down, it's just like the world opens up too? yeah absolutely. um What do you find is hard about grounding characters?
01:25:12
Speaker
Believable dialogue. just to say yeah Would they say this in real life? Or is it too kooky? yeah Or is it too silly? But it's not usually a problem.
01:25:23
Speaker
Because the girls, we found that it's quite easy with the girls themselves. because they speak pidgin English, which is basically how foreigners speak English. So it can be quite funny.
01:25:34
Speaker
um And they can get away with some things that people who speak English fluently couldn't. So that works. Oh, that's interesting.
01:25:45
Speaker
Yeah. So there's that sort of humor element to it. But um obviously you've got to balance it with drama and serious drama as much as you can. Otherwise it just becomes silly.
01:25:58
Speaker
How do you approach that? I'm curious because sometimes you can make a serious situation funny unintentionally and and the opposite can happen where you make a funny situation that should be funny a little too serious. I mean, like putting grenades up someone's ass is hilarious, but in real life, it wouldn't be funny.
01:26:22
Speaker
No, that's right. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm curious how you, because though i imagine the girls get up to situations in a like that. And how do you how do you approach that as a writer?
01:26:36
Speaker
um Yeah, I mean, we could take it as far as we can, which you usually do. um But not make it so you end up in a sort of,
01:26:49
Speaker
Avengers comic book sort of situation where it just becomes totally crazy.
Creating Unique Comics and Social Media Impact
01:26:54
Speaker
um it We purposely didn't want to make them superheroes or anything like that.
01:27:00
Speaker
That was something because we loved them in comic books but we sort got tired of seeing superheroes in films because they're just the same film if over and over over Oh, yes. You're speaking to us.
01:27:15
Speaker
So we got bored of that sort of thing. um So we thought, right, okay. They've got to have some humor. They've got to have some drama. It's got to be funny, but not goofy.
01:27:27
Speaker
and It's got to be serious, but not over the top. oh and i stay yeah I think we've more or less got it right I don't think we've done anything that's too over the top time will tell
01:27:47
Speaker
i want to ask I want to ask this do you ever worry that the audience doesn't get then how do you address that We used to,
01:28:00
Speaker
and but we purposely didn't want to make it for teenagers. This is a comic book for grownups. Although it's got a lot of British humor in it, it's quite universal too. i think most people have got it.
01:28:17
Speaker
oh There's only a few that haven't, but everybody likes everything you do, right? Yeah. Nobody likes what we do. What are you talking about? That's not true. We like what we do.
01:28:31
Speaker
We're each other's audience. That's saw it all I know. um But yeah, we were worried in the beginning. But the formula we sort of got, it's like a fish out of water, but there are sort of storylines and characters you can resonate with.
01:28:49
Speaker
I think that works for us. What are you looking forward to do now with where you're at? um
01:28:58
Speaker
I'm happy with doing Delta Turret. We're doing more Comic Cons in England. Getting our stuff out there that way. Podcasts. At the moment, I'm just enjoying writing it.
01:29:12
Speaker
As long as I'm enjoying it, keep going. Wherever it leads to. Have you thought about doing your own show, like your own podcast, where you talk about your own stuff? Yeah.
01:29:26
Speaker
have thought about it but not seriously i mean I see so many people like yourselves that do it so much better ah oh but it's not about doing it better it's just about being out there and like talking like like we are now and your yeah your own unique experience you know I mean that's very insightful it's true Well, it's something to think about, Yeah.
01:29:48
Speaker
Yeah. And you have a lot to talk about. I mean, we're only, we're, we're, we're trying to wrap it up, but I'm like, well, we can keep going. If you're, I mean, I know it's, it's, it's, uh, it's like a 1030 out there. uh,
01:30:01
Speaker
ah Yeah, yeah. me yeah where i don't want to write I don't want to butt into your writing time too much. Oh, yeah, that's true. But I did want to ask something real quick too then. So you were talking about you're just focusing on writing. So like with – because, you know, with um Girls on Tour, you had a lot of trailers and stuff like that for advertising and whatnot.
01:30:22
Speaker
Yeah. So i guess, you know, how much – Does all of that other auxiliary stuff conflict with the writing? I mean, is that something you like engaging in, like with the trailers and whatnot? Or would you prefer to just focus on the writing? Yeah.
01:30:45
Speaker
in like five years time I'd like somebody else to do it but at the moment because we're we're a collaborative unit doing it all together and it's fun it's fun doing it and it doesn't take me long to do just one weekend when I did when I did the first trailer it took me nearly two weeks but now I've learned how to do it it's easier it's easier so much easier and I enjoy doing it it's creative do you feel like it interferes no to
01:31:16
Speaker
because it's something that works for the script and it works for the people who made it. Yeah. Do you feel in this modern era, the more tricks or more skills you have in your bag, the better you are? Where it's like, yes, I could be the greatest writer ever, but if I can't develop a market to get people to actually see my content, it doesn't matter.
01:31:43
Speaker
um I think you have to have your fingers in a couple of pies. It certainly helps you. So, you know, um I've learned to do video editing. learned to do sound editing all through doing this comic.
01:32:00
Speaker
Yeah, this is it's it's something big, I think, because... we We talk about it where where it's like, well, what's our social media presence? And it's like, I don't want to think about social media presence.
AI in Creativity and Advice for Writers
01:32:12
Speaker
I want to make film. Yeah.
01:32:14
Speaker
I don't want to think how many followers I have that that matters, but I'm also not ignorant enough to know, to, to believe that it doesn't matter. do I know. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you are conscious of it because, um, yeah. And I'm like, Oh, I don't want to get your stuff out there.
01:32:29
Speaker
Yeah. It's like, yeah. It's like part of the reason we started at the podcast was, It was like, well, this will ah this will boost the attraction to our film. It will boost the attraction to our future projects. yeah And well you know and it it will teach us as well. But it's like along the way, it was just like, damn, it matters.
01:32:51
Speaker
Having a presence online matters. And and i think it's it feels kind of yucky to me yeah because I'm like, I want the work to speak for itself. But at the same time, it's like, There's so much so so much shit out there. There's something like not shit like as in bad, but like shit as in like just content.
01:33:08
Speaker
There's so much. And with yeah that and i this could sprawl like another hour long, but AI and art, the big thing that we talk about is like, that's like an, explosion that that will create an explosion of just of media and content. And is that something you're thinking about? Like, is that something you worry about?
01:33:30
Speaker
um I do worry because AI,
01:33:35
Speaker
ai in about five years, you could just do a short film or a comic just with AI. I mean, it's not perfected yet. I've tried AI and there's still quite few flaws in it.
01:33:48
Speaker
But yeah, the scariest thought is you could do a film of AI or a comic book and of AI in a few years.
01:33:59
Speaker
and all the All the decent work that people do. Yeah. I go down the toilet. I don't want to see that Yeah. You know, i mean, dare we say artists for me and Tom, but, you know, that's very scary for people like us because so much of it is wrapped around business, you know, like graphic design, for example. Yeah.
01:34:23
Speaker
And that's in graphic design used for marketing. um So that is scary, you know, but also like from our perspective, having the tools of ai is very useful because it can ah who save us tons of hours and tons of work. But also at the same time, it's like, well, we want to make short or we want to make films. But if you just type into a prompt the type of film you want,
01:34:47
Speaker
yeah you know What need is there for us? so so it it it is you know I guess it's that double-edged sword where yes, on one hand, it can be very useful and it can save us countless hours, ah but also at the same time, it can just literally ah make us extinct.
01:35:06
Speaker
Yeah, that's the thing. It's most worrying, I think. Yeah. It makes me hate that um we're living in the time that we're living in.
01:35:17
Speaker
Because it's like, damn, in 10 years, is every film just going to be ah well-written artificial AI prompt? And you can have any actor that's ever existed in your film because it will recreate them. And then we're going to have these weird, messy, what's legal, what's not legal things.
01:35:39
Speaker
what Right? It's like, well, James Dean isn't around to say he can't be in a film, speaking of Rebel Without a Cause. Like, yeah, he has family members or his estate or whoever, but if i if I just type in a prompt, I want to make the thing, but put James Dean as the lead. and Yeah.
01:35:58
Speaker
Lance Hendrickson at 23 in there and and Clark Gable's the thing. Yeah. And Clark Gable is the thing. And then it's like, yeah yeah you know, the next day it pumps out the perfect film that gets like, it remade it with new actors and their voices are accurate and it matches. And it's like, what does that mean for art? Like, what is it? Like, is that art? Is that, yeah, I don't know. It's scary.
01:36:24
Speaker
And I haven't drank enough to really think about it yet. Yeah.
01:36:30
Speaker
Let me know it's tomorrow. and Yeah, exactly. um and so There's a lot to decompress there, we're getting close to two hours. so Yeah, and and one thing we like to leave off with is just um if you have any words of wisdom or advice um for us and our listeners that you would like to leave us with.
01:36:58
Speaker
um Yeah, um from a writing point of view, just keep writing. whatever We touched on this before, but just keep writing. If you're a stepping into it new, don't think your first one's going to anything. You might do you might not, but just keep writing. Whatever you've got in your head, put in a notebook or just write it down on a computer.
01:37:19
Speaker
Always keep writing.
01:37:23
Speaker
When you stop, it's very easy not to start again.
Conclusion and Gratitude
01:37:28
Speaker
I found that I had a long gap a long gap where I didn't write kick myself but yes just keep at it and never give up alright well thank you Daniel can you share where people can find you and where they can find what you're putting out there sure Most of my works are on amazon.com or co.uk.
01:37:52
Speaker
Um, girls and tour parts one and two are there. Um, part three should be out hopefully within the next week and a half. Oh, awesome. That's that's soon. Yeah.
01:38:03
Speaker
Yeah. I'm just waiting for coming. And my two solo works contract clause and an area.
01:38:14
Speaker
I've had too much wine. um They're both on Amazon as well. You're one of us. I'm on Instagram, and Facebook. Just ah look me up. and My name's quite unique.
01:38:27
Speaker
Awesome. Awesome. And unless you have anything else to say, ah we'll wrap this up. Nice and great guys. Yeah. Thank you so much for, for giving us some time and and we'll definitely, we would love to have you back on as, of course, to talk more about writing and your projects. And um yeah yeah I'd love to come back. wait I hope you had a good time.
01:38:51
Speaker
yeah yeah It was, it was, ah it was very fun. so Daniel, any parting words? I don't want to say last words. I don't want to assume that you're gonna you know i don't want to assume it's the last word, but any parting words?
01:39:07
Speaker
Arrivederci. There you go. All right. I couldn't think of anything witty. Cut. cut