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TSP Ep 131 Part 1: Discussion on Filming Micro-Budget Films With Writer and Director Steven Aripez Again!
31 Plays1 month ago
In this episode Steven Aripez joins Tom and Steve! They discuss shooting wide as in the Master shot, the difficulties of scheduling actors on a micro-budget as well as crew, the importance of rehearsals, best twists in cinema, and the how much Terrifer sucks cucks!
So come along with us as we learn a thing or two!
You can find Steven and all that he is doing here: https://www.instagram.com/aripezfilms/
And you can find his feature, The Director's Cut here: https://tubitv.com/movies/100019561/the-director-s-cut
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Transcript
Intro and Podcast Overview
00:00:00
Speaker
Damn, should I have like a beer? with Are you guys drinking or no? I'm starting with coffee and then I'll i'll have my drink, but Tom's already got his whiskey. I'm just a lush. I'll get a beer soon. I'm starting with the Diet Coke.
00:00:12
Speaker
Oh, there you go. Do you want to introduce the episode? Oh yeah, I guess I should. Sorry. Welcome everyone to Twin Shadows Podcast, a podcast about film, filmmaking, and filmmakers.
00:00:24
Speaker
Brought to you as always, by the three handsomest, most successful filmmakers in the year 2075. All right. all right Tom, Steve, and Steve. P-H and V, you know? Yeah.
00:00:36
Speaker
The battle of the Stevens. Yeah. As always. You know, ah I always had good luck with people named Steven being my friends. So, you know, it's always ah it so a good sign. Really? Yeah. I always have bad with ah people named Andrew.
Guest Introduction and Film Promotion
00:00:50
Speaker
It's like anyone named Andrew. I don't know, man. There's going to be some contention at some point. Wasn't that doesn't Alex have that friend named Andrew? Don't you? Yeah, he's a really cool guy. I like Andrews. age my heart They break me.
00:01:03
Speaker
Yeah, I'm sure I have a name too out there, but I can't think of it right now. Yeah, I got a few. But um Stephen, how are you doing? I asked him a question. Of course, he he's taking a sip of his stuff. Yeah, no, good good. I'm just, you know, just trying to wake up fully.
00:01:17
Speaker
But I'm good. Long night. Yeah. and We're doing a... Sorry ah to cut you off at the end there. with This is also Steven, who was on our podcast last time with his film, ah The Director's Cut, right?
00:01:29
Speaker
Yeah. And then that's what you would type into Tubi to find it. Tubi, if you want to say. Yeah, it's still on there. Or can get the VHS tape. You know, I was i was so excited. I don't know if you how excited you were. out You could talk about this too a little bit.
00:01:42
Speaker
Oh, yeah. um So rogers a Roger Avery's daughter, Gala Avery, that does the ah podcast with Quinn Tarantino. And then she has her own show called The Gala Show. She does like these posts on Instagram where she's like, which movie should I watch? And it's like three VHS tapes. And one of the, she had a VHS tape of director's cut.
00:01:58
Speaker
Oh, no shit. And, uh, and I was just like, Oh my God, that's so cool. Like gotta vote for that one. You know? And I messaged her like, you better watch that fucking movie. Did she want you message back or no? No, she blocked me probably.
00:02:13
Speaker
Yeah. uh i saw it but she told me she's gonna it's in a rotation so she's gonna watch it um wow i only sent it to her i sent it to her and i sent a copy to quinn and roger i don't if they're gonna fucking watch it but i because ah when you send stuff you can send it to their uh their video video archives podcast like mail um and they don't they don't do like emails or nothing i think you gotta send like like an actual letter and stuff like that or a postcard.
00:02:41
Speaker
And I sent in, I sent the two copies of VHSs for it. So I don't have a VHS player. So I relied on the guy that made it for me to send me videos of like throughout the like of it. So it looked good. So I told her like, let me know if the transfer is any good because I didn't actually like play it on a player, but I saw it on the guy's videos that he sent me. So but yeah, she told me like, yeah, I'm going to going to put it in, it's in my rotation now, so I will get to it. So we'll see. That may be like at the end of next year something like that.
00:03:10
Speaker
But, uh, I gotta ask, how surreal is that? That like, potentially like Quentin Tarantino or, you know, just like could be watching your movie, like as like a film nerd, it's like, he's like the King, he's our King, right? Like, yeah. of the film nerd yeah Yeah. Like there's, I mean, it's, I mean, it is, it is cool, but it's also terrifying. Cause I'm like, he just fucking hate the movie. Like, You're like, wow, you know, like, fuck this movie. Like, who sent this piece of shit to you? So it's a little bit of both, you know, but I mean, I like, at the of the day, the goal is just, i need I need more eyes to watch. And I think kind of my strategy strategy for 2025 with the director's cut is to try to send it to people that have influence in the industry, see if they can get eyes on it. Because if anybody's going to be able to get word of mouth out more than anything, I feel like it, or if they, if somebody with some
00:04:01
Speaker
credibility, you know, quote unquote, quote credibility in the industry. And anybody has anything positive to say about it ah that's a good, that's a good, that's a win in my eyes. And that's like good for it to have a longer life or people to just watch it and at least watch it for 45 minutes. so I get money for it, you know, so I'll take that. yeah I'll take that for sure. So, I mean, I'm doing my own like promotion. I'm like in a bunch of fucking face, face groups ah group, uh, groups promoting it out there for people to like, Hey, just check it out. You know, like,
00:04:31
Speaker
<unk>s you know just so It's making money. I still haven't made a profit, but it's making you know its gets money I get money from it still, but it still hasn't made a profit yet. so Hell, dude, just to make any money from anything you've made is just fantastic fantastic. It's nice, but it's also not nice because you're not making a profit yet.
00:04:49
Speaker
well You know, it's a lot of money to do a film. So, yeah so how's that going? And then how, how do you want to kind of tackle that more in 2025? Or are you kind of getting to the tail end of, you know, trying to get the word out or just starting? Yeah. It's not going to be my focus, you know, director's cut, you know, I, this year I really, I, you know I did what I can and like to put it like in the forefront of promoting, but, um,
00:05:12
Speaker
I'm still going to do, I'm not giving up on it. I'm promoting it. I'm still going be pushing out there until my next film comes out, you know, yeah um, my next like feature. So, um, I have, So i'm I'm really like, I'm really dead set on filming something next year, a feature film.
Upcoming Projects and Filmmaking Strategies
00:05:30
Speaker
So I have ah this raunchy rom-com sex comedy called Romancing with Herb. I have three comedic influencers. Some of them have acted, but three of them attached to play like major roles in the movie.
00:05:44
Speaker
They're down. And they all have, like I think, a combined of 5 million followers you know ah together. So they have a strong following. So I'm probably going to go do a Kickstarter for it.
00:05:57
Speaker
um And I've been working on my buddy who does like my graphic graphics for posters and stuff like that. He's been you know kind of – because to have a successful Kickstarter, I've kind of learned that you've got to create a buzz before you can launch. You can't just launch it, even if you have people attached, and expect it to just boom. Because they say the first three days, if it's not reached a certain percentage, it's not probably going to be successful. So they say, create a buzz, get get it ah um an email list, all that stuff. Like, so I've been researching it be like, cause I'm like, I think I get the money.
00:06:31
Speaker
Um, and if I'm going to do this, I got to do it right. And all of them are down to like promote it. So that's the, I guess the higher budget I'm shooting for 200 K to shoot that, to get a budget of 200 K for that. Okay. So that's the, that's the, you know, I guess the, the, the high budget one.
00:06:49
Speaker
And then I have a backup film. That's like a micro budget, another micro budget attempt. but it but it will feel way, it won't feel like as micro-budget as director's cut. It'll be like more locations, but still contained.
00:07:04
Speaker
And that's a Jallo-inspired film. So, and that was called Don't Torture a Psychopath. I mean, if you've seen Don't Torture a Duckling, you obviously see the the influence. yeah Totally different stories, though, in the in the set in the in that and that way. But the title's like the only real similar similarity and that they're both going to be Jallo films, or they're both Jallo films, so...
00:07:25
Speaker
ah That's the one I'm, I got like 20 pages on that one. um And that one I'll probably be co-directing with the the actor in director's cut. ah John, ah who played the character of ah Jason, he's the guy with the long hair and the beard in director's cut.
00:07:41
Speaker
He's going to be... ah the lead in it, but he'll probably also be co-directing because he wants to get into co-directing and he'll also be a producer on it. So me and him will probably ah finance that one. And we'll ask some few people for like some, a small amount of ah money if they're interested. And you know, they do, they do, they don't regardless, we're going to make it, you know? So, um and that will probably be also like around the same budget, like a 10 to 12,000, you know?
00:08:06
Speaker
Yeah. And I kind of have the location it deals with and a Like that's kind of like the main ah setting is a NA group. So, so that kind of is like, and I have, I'm very familiar with it. Cause I have an, no, I'm just kidding. I've taken up of, ah of ah kids in my,
00:08:28
Speaker
in my day job of uh you know being a behavioral worker with kids and a lot of them have gone to aa and na and i've taken a lot those groups and i've sat in so many goddamn of those groups so i know the ins and outs of those that world more than i probably ever should have you know um so i'm very familiar with it and i there's like a There's an interesting story with that with that a backdrop. you know so that and what the whole And then adding the whole Jallo thing is something I've always wanted to do, is do it like a really straight up Jallo inspired... like you know It's also a little bit of a slasher, but definitely more leaning to the Jallo element of of of the of ah the horror genre.
00:09:08
Speaker
And I think the cool thing is Jallo does lend itself towards smaller budgets. I mean, it's, you know, a lot of lurking in shadows, a lot of, i it's more about what you don't see. Well, and think except for like the end of like Tenebra or something where people are getting like acts in the face and shit. but yeah um ah But, you know, you kind of build towards that. And it's like, Jyalla's cool because it's like a noir slasher, like slammed together. Yeah, yeah, yeah. exactly Yeah, essentially. That's what it is. Yeah.
00:09:37
Speaker
Yeah, and I always, I mean, it's a great genre for low budget because I think it's just like you go heavy on the style and you just push that style so you don't necessarily need like the best actors. You don't need like, you know, you don't need Marlon Brando to make a giallo, right? Yeah. But, but, you know, we're going have great acting in this. so I'm not saying you're but I just mean like, you don't need like this
Filmmaking Techniques and Challenges
00:10:01
Speaker
name. you don't need You don't need name recognition for sure. It's a movie that like, it's a genre film. So, um, if you deliver on those thrills on the, what the genre offers, I think, and everybody else is competent.
00:10:13
Speaker
Like it's going to be, you you have a potential of something awesome. So, uh, Idea for both films, depending on you obviously if the Kickstarter goes successful, then Summertime for both, depending on which one, you know, if the Romancing with Herb one, ah you know, doesn't reach its goal, then then I'll be already be working on the Jowla, getting that one ready just in case that campaign whenever I'm thinking like around April or May to launch it.
00:10:42
Speaker
And then if it goes successful, then shoot it like before the fall, like right at the end of summer. um And if ah both of them just shoot them in summer, regardless which one I decided fully go go with.
00:10:54
Speaker
So either one I'm excited for. So that's the plan. Obviously, I will, you know, i would like, you know, if you guys are down to make the trip down from Victorville down here for at least a couple of days for whatever one.
00:11:06
Speaker
oh yeah. that'd be dope to have you guys on set because it's going to be a skeleton crew in general so i feel like for both films like even if i get the 200k i'm not putting i'm not having like a second unit or nothing like that it's going to be still pretty small crew um yeah steven nike being your second unit yeah there you go you'll be like what the fuck this is hex
00:11:28
Speaker
You're like, why is everything a Dutch angle? My eyes are cross-eyed. I don't know. and like i like Dutch angles, so you can you know that won't get me mad. Steven and always go fight over Dutch angles.
00:11:39
Speaker
You're not a Dutch angle guy? I Really? don't like them, but i I do use them a lot. yeah You don't like them, but I use them. Yeah, I don't like them. Well, there's a lot of things I don't like, but I'll use whatever works or whatever works. They're like condoms, right? You're like, oh, you know.
00:11:54
Speaker
ah I don't like him, but I use him. Not anymore now, obviously. Before kids, before kids, before kids. That's like, I'm sure that was, that's probably everybody's most, most people's mentality. Look at him. No, uh,
00:12:08
Speaker
You want me to spend 10 bucks to have six?
00:12:12
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. But no, I'm ah i'm ah i'm a Dutch guy. I'm with Tom on this one. I mean, I fucking love that. I i mean, it can be overused for sure. And it can be like, okay, chill out, you know? Have you seen The Grinch? one with Jim Carrey? That's fucking Dutch angle galore right there, man.
00:12:24
Speaker
yeah i really but Yeah, I was rewatching. And I like it for the most part. Some of them really work. But then I'm like, okay, you need to give me some, you know, regular shots in there, you know? Well, to me, it's all about purpose.
00:12:36
Speaker
And Dutch angles serve have a really good purpose, right? They are good at creating mystery and significance to a shot. And you're like should we like what we should be it's like, what's going on here? like you know The world is like tilted. like there's a like you the Physically, has tilted. like You can use that to like to explain something. with that It's like showing without telling.
00:12:56
Speaker
Yeah, I would say the way I feel about Dutch angles is the way Tom feels about tight shots in a film. He hates a tight shot in a film. Yeah, I don't like close-ups. me, I'm like, oh, yeah. You don't like close-ups? Just see their eyeball.
00:13:06
Speaker
I think they're interesting they're overused. like guess This could go into our talk, too, about more of like… um Modern films? ah Modern films and stuff. i I think it's just like we use close-ups way too much.
00:13:19
Speaker
um I want to see the scene. I want to see the background. I want to see what's going on. And then and then when you have those important moments, then we can go to a tight. But I don't want just like a conversation of tight, tight, tight, tight tight tight tight next scene. I'm like, what where are they? Is this a pickup shot? I think I agree for the most part. I think it it's all ah intentions, you know? and and yeah But yeah, I i agree. i I do prefer just in general wider angles and wider lenses ah like to see even for close-ups I prefer wider so sos that's why that's why for me anamorphic lenses are the best because even in the close-ups you you're still getting a wide wide close-up and I like that that that depth of field that anamorphic lens you know has yeah so I always fall I fall into the school of Billy Wilder Billy Wilder was like do you don't have to get fancy with the camera you just got to tell a story
00:14:13
Speaker
like he was like you know don't cut too much and that's like my thing is i hate cutting too much i hate you going too tight but there are times when i want close-up there are times you know like you know you gotta but it's like the same thing with the dutch you gotta earn it you gotta earn everything you know what and that's one thing that with my next film i'm gonna i'm gonna make sure that i'm gonna capture and want to do a lot of like master shots, but with that are staged very well and, yeah and have a lot of, and, and, and really be very conscious of the background that I'm, that I'm s staging it in, you know, and being able to move it in a lot of, lot of more movement, um, inspired shots that are, you can even use as different takes, like cut, like put like, uh, cutaways and stuff like that. But like try to do a lot of like,
00:15:07
Speaker
You know, sometimes like just not overcomplicating scenes, you know, just like it doesn't need to be this cutty. yeah could You could get this all in one, especially especially if the scenes not like too long.
00:15:18
Speaker
Most of the time you just need to get one type of good shot in there, you know, made with a little bit of movement or no movement. It just depends. If the framing is great and you don't and it's a great static shot, then, you know, fuck it, you know, just hold on it.
00:15:30
Speaker
But yeah, that's one thing that I'm trying to be that I'm going to be very conscious of for my next one. Yeah, I would say for our film, we had a lot of um master shots that we really tried to use in just like one long master takes.
00:15:45
Speaker
But I think, and this was us on our first film where we didn't know too much. I mean, we didn't really understand blocking or even rehearsing with actors. So, you know, there's that aspect where I, you know, if you're going to do just one master take, you definitely got to get that rehearsal and that blocking tight.
00:16:02
Speaker
But What we found is it was also nice just having the coverage of the medium shot or even a tighter shot so we could cut the master, go to the tighter shot and kind of like um basically just cut out some of the dialogue that we just felt weren' wasn't working. Yeah.
00:16:20
Speaker
so and then there Yeah, and there were shots where we didn't do that. And man, it's just like, damn, if only we had something to cut away too to, just shorten this. That would mean so much to us, you know? so So i would the I would say that's something for people to be considerate of is...
00:16:38
Speaker
just be careful. Be careful with that one master take, because you know you're putting a lot of eggs in that basket. Yeah, trust me, I'm still going to get like coverage of other things. I'm not going to just be like, this is the... Unless it's like a scene that... um Unless I'm very confident in it, which, again, that's also one of those things that is risky, because then you go in the editing room and like,
00:16:59
Speaker
damn why was i so confident about this fucking shot you know so it's one of those things that you just have to i guess also part of is like do you have time timing you know you're gonna always run into that like not having enough time you're never gonna have enough time if you're trying to do this professionally you're never gonna have enough time so um it's just those those are the type of you know kind of like in the moment decisions that you're gonna have to make um but i'm gonna try really well to have to be very thought out about it and be like okay like and just it's It's all about also location scouting. like Location scouting is especially so key for like
00:17:34
Speaker
when you're not, when you're doing having multiple locations in a movie. So I think it's just, it's just about being more, i don't know, more present for the next, you know, just being more ah locked in, you know? So, so it feels like I'm, I am thoroughly kind of thinking out everything that's, that could possibly work, you know, or it could be.
00:17:55
Speaker
So it's just, it, you know, and again, I know, whatever the next one, I'm probably still going to have things that are like, fuck, I wish i would have done it differently once it's, once it's edited and stuff like that. So you're never going to be truly satisfied.
00:18:07
Speaker
But and I think that's always the case. I don't, I mean, i you watch any movie and you're just like, everyone, you would you always watch a and like, I would do it differently, right? Exactly. exactly And it's like, if you could watch a movie that like these people, like you know like ah some of the best of the best are making, you're like, I would have done that differently. but you know like Maybe that's my own ah humbleness, or ah my own ah ego.
00:18:32
Speaker
Humbleness, definitely. I'm still humble. I would have done it so much better than Kubrick. yeah But you know what? That is but yeah that ah that idea of like, like i would ah I would have done it differently, or even would have done it differently and better,
00:18:45
Speaker
I think that's that's a good thing to have because I think you're supposed to be striving to to be the best in be and do great. you know So it's not a bad thing. It can turn and into a bad thing, but it's just you you know you just have to manage it and not let it get out of control. you know That like, my way is the rightest way or anything like that. yeah So it's just about maintaining.
00:19:06
Speaker
Are you going to utilize rehearsals then for like those master takes? Oh, honestly, like that's one thing that i want to definitely have more of is rehearsals. Honestly, if I had like a like a really legit budget, I don't know like what 200K is exactly how much rehearsal time that's going to really get me if I get it.
00:19:27
Speaker
But. I want to really, i I would like to, it's not just about rehearsing. Like I did rehearsals on director's cup, but it was like zoom calls and stuff like that. I want to be able to like before what, like leading up into the actual filming days, if I can get like at least three to two days where we can rehearse on this the locations, and like that would be fucking amazing.
00:19:52
Speaker
And, and, and be able to like actually stage it. Like in advance, even though three days is probably, you know, I would prefer more, but that would be something that I didn't get to really do with the actors, like is stage with, uh, with them before I hit action, you know, like properly stage, you know, like where it's just, we're just rere hurt we're just rehearsing, but we're like in the location.
00:20:14
Speaker
So, um, I definitely, if I can do that in the next film, get like a couple of days of just like not recording and just like staging and rehearsing. yeah be but about life Have you ever thought about doing like ah renting out a space where everyone just meets and then just run through the scenes and it's like loose blocking, that kind of thing? where And you can kind of see how the shots are.
00:20:38
Speaker
It's like a very Sidley Lumet type of thing. You would just rent a warehouse. I've definitely thought about it. Man, it is fucking hard to to get everybody's schedule to align, you know, when...
00:20:49
Speaker
when it's not everybody's main job. You know what I mean? yeah It's a lot harder than you think. And as part of it's like, it's like, fuck, dude, I got to pay them. You know, like, what's their incentive to like, if they're not like, am I getting paid for this? Or is this like, am I getting paid to rehearse? or I'm just getting paid for the movie? You know, is that another, you know, like some people will be cool and like, yeah, let's fucking do it. Some people maybe can't really afford to just take that extra time to just do, go there, down there to rehearse and not get, oh yeah get paid. so and We know it's tough. Well, at that point, then I would wonder about even casting them, you know, cause, cause you want them to be able to,
00:21:25
Speaker
to put in that effort right yeah yeah no totally totally but it's it's also like you know i understand like their life is you know life is fucking life it doesn't give a shit you know kick them to the curb yeah yeah we got what i'll say but also but also if they're you know i'm not if there's one thing about being difficult and then being them being upfront and honest with stuff know i can take that but when you're when you're telling me one thing and then like as we're getting into deeper into and you start telling me another things like that I wasn't aware of, know, like, okay, now they're being difficult. You know i mean? And maybe now they're not so into it. So then I'm like, okay, then that would have like, maybe I should recast, you know, but, um, yeah, but if they're being upfront of like their schedule and this is like what they have, you know, like then, then I, I, I'm willing to work around.
00:22:08
Speaker
Well, if you're willing to be upfront to them, think a lot of people would be down for that. I mean, yeah. I think it a of I've acted in a couple things, and it's like, yeah, I'd like to do rehearsals, you know?
00:22:20
Speaker
Yeah. um Just to know what is expected, because I'm not an actor or anything, so just for the lay person like me, it's nice to just know what you as a director want. And also, I think that's good as the director, because you're also the writer, right?
00:22:34
Speaker
To just see what's working script-wise. Yeah. Because I think if we would have rehearsed on our film, we probably would have found a lot of issues that we just didn't realize until we shot them and we were in the edit.
00:22:47
Speaker
you know Yeah, yeah. No, yeah, i mean, I think it's – I think rehearsal is a big plus. I think at times it can work without rehearsal. But I think – I think it's just kind of like knowing your actor.
00:23:00
Speaker
i think some actors can do it and they don't need the rehearsal. But then there's some actors that I feel like, dang, it would have helped them to just be more, ah you know.
00:23:11
Speaker
So so it depends on the characters. The characters are like friends and stuff. I'd like them to hang out and I could and have them like be hanging out, get to know each other. and get to like vibe off each other before actually, you know, saying action.
00:23:23
Speaker
But then if like it's characters meeting for the first time or don't have that close relationship, I think it it works to kind of go in cold with them, you know, and not really have to ah rehearse too much, you know, or maybe not even rehearse at all. It just kind of depends. I think everything, it's it's situational, you know, it's it's case by case, I think.
00:23:40
Speaker
but yeah definitely But I feel like for for something like comedy or like a micro budget, I would like to get as much rehearsal time because yeah it's going to be very economical. You know, even 200K is like that's big for me, but that's a fucking cheap ass movie in Hollywood. you know yeah And and and and.
00:23:59
Speaker
I see I'm still gonna have to be economical in a different way you know than like a 12k production you know so I feel like it'd be easier because I've you know I'm used to that that budget the way smaller budget so it'd be like oh wow to me I'm like that's making a million dollar booby in a way but yeah But I'll probably find out that it'll be like, it's going to be its own battles in different ways. Yeah, it all it'll introduce its own issues, right? Because then everyone's expecting to get paid and then you're probably like crunching for scheduling a lot more. It's like, shit, man, I can't afford another day of shooting. Honestly, I would say it all that it probably introduces more issues than it solves. other than the fact Because like when you think about it's like, okay, um but because you know you're budgeting for people to be that certain amount of time. like They're probably going pay day rates, you know like $200 a day or something yeah like that.
00:24:45
Speaker
And you're like, like because well, unless you're going hourly, and then that's like that gets scary in the hourly. But does that mean and that you're paying overtime? Are you hiring you know SAG actors that have minimums? like How are you doing that kind of negotiation?
00:24:59
Speaker
Yeah, I don't want want to SAG, so hopefully. Yeah, it's still going to and and that was ah That's one thing, too, and I want to to bring this up. There's a lot of like want versus need. Especially when you're like on our levels. It's like, yeah, I would want rehearsals, but I can make the movie without them. Of course, it's going to be better, right? But there's a lot of want for scenes like that, was it Maslow's Pyramid or whatever, right? You know, like where shelter is like number one and food and, you know, and then at the bottom is like women and booze, you know, shit like that.
00:25:30
Speaker
No, no, it's totally very true. Very true. I mean, at the end of the day, I'll get it done. But at the end of the day, it's like, you got to film it. You know, you got to get it. You got to do what you can within the, your parameters.
00:25:43
Speaker
And, and, but that's in the, again, you're going to, like I said, in every level, whether a fucking no budget or, you know, $30 million dollar film, a hundred million dollar film, there's going to be parameters. So you, as long as you understand that, it's just going to be a different ah mutation of those parameters. So you just got to understand that. And, you know, but then a day is like,
00:26:08
Speaker
the and The key is making sure you trust your actors and being 100%. ah hundred percent Like, at least I know they're going to be prepped, even if if we can't do the rehearsal time properly. yeah At least they're going to be prepped. And i think ah I think I sort of succeeded that with Director's Cut. I think that i there were some actors that were like, ah not too many of them. I would say maybe like two that...
00:26:31
Speaker
maybe needed way more prep, I feel like. And they're not like, they could they do they're not like just like on the go, like like some of the other actors. But so I think making sure I just... don't take that risk on if I do the micro budget one, like it's just be like, I'm making sure they're like, I can trust that they're going to be fucking line ready and they're going to be, be able to at least like improv if I need them or just be like, be able to like switch up.
00:26:57
Speaker
So I, I, yeah, so I, I'm, ah um I'm, I'm going to be definitely prepped in that way for sure. If have to do with either one, honestly, I don't want to have to, get someone that's like kind of too green and in like, I guess the professionalism, you know what mean? A bit. and That's the scary thing too. Like Steven always, we always um talked about that where it was like, well, if they can't even make it to a callback, how are they, we're going to depend on them.
00:27:21
Speaker
to make it day after day after day to the shoot. and ah And a huge thing, and like you were saying, like you know like everyone has no stuff going on in their lives, but it's like professional actors, this is what's going on in their lives. They don't miss rehearsals because that's part of the job.
00:27:36
Speaker
right That's part of showing up for the day is going to those two to three week rehearsals before going to film because they're committed to the project for those you know the the entire length of that time. like And that's the ah I think that's where things start to change as the budgets and stuff go up because then you can start affording that more and paying people their proper due.
00:27:58
Speaker
Because the nice thing is, but and then on the on the flip side, right, when we're doing the micro budget, the zero like the but cheap stuff where people aren't really getting paid per day, like you're getting gas and food,
00:28:10
Speaker
It's just like, hey, you show up. Come on down. Show up. It's free. Let's shoot 14 hours, 15 hour day. Like, you're not worried. You're not paying them overtime. Like, that was like the nice thing for dickhead. Like, we could shoot all day. Like, people were pretty much volunteering. um I think that's when we put in their contract was that they were volunteering to to be on the film as opposed to. Or if you could get them to do just a flat rate. Like, I had, you know, for directors, I had some that.
00:28:34
Speaker
Like, listen, I could give you this flat rate. It's not like 130 a day, but it's, you know, 500 flat rate or something like that, you know? it It's also scheduling. it's all Scheduling is key, too. It's like you don't want – you want to just get everybody contain like in a continuous like days of shooting. like like yeah I'm not trying to separate an actor's scenes too far apart if I don't have to. Like, let's get – I'm going to get you out in two days going get you out in three days, you know, continuously. I'm not going to like separate it where you shoot here.
00:29:07
Speaker
You know, that's the thing. I wish I could shoot everything in sequence, but you know, reality is not going to allow that, you know? So you gotta, you gotta to go. What's going to make sense for what's, what where you're going to be able to get, you know, right. I also love that we're talking about this because this is like the less sexy side of filmmaking.
00:29:22
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. like when When people you know and those kids are posting on Reddit or whatever and they are just like like, you know, let's say let's make movies. They're like, are you considering scheduling contracts and budgeting for making sure you have the the food foods properly set up and the equipment's being delivered? That's also like, that stresses me out yeah more than it should, honestly. No, that was the biggest issue we faced was food. We had no idea.
00:29:49
Speaker
yeah and Yeah, and then also like our actors like had different demands for their diets. and Yeah, because they're all healthy and shit. It's like, oh, man, you mean top-up ain't good enough for you? Oh, you're allergic to what? You're allergic to hot-and-readies? Who's allergic to hot-and-readies?
00:30:04
Speaker
Well, shit, they're expensive now. Your lactose really, bro? Yeah. I don't know. It's like I can't come on, bro. It's gluten free. Can't have soy. If it's a green, it has to have been grown in September, you know, like shit like that. Like I can't have those fall fruit. I mean, I mean, really? Yeah. Honestly, the main reason of just like wanting like the the main reason to just like get into that, obviously that certain status is just have other people handle the shit that you want to handle like that. Like, oh, yeah.
00:30:34
Speaker
Fucking budget breakdowns, like all those things that are not like essentially the creative aspect of making a movie, like all those things. That's like the main reason to just get up yeah to get in the industry where people help you in those aspects.
00:30:48
Speaker
Yeah, that's the biggest difference between having money is like you yeah but you can hire that line producer. I mean, another thing, too, is like just transportation. Just making sure that people can people can get to set.
00:31:01
Speaker
like I know a lot of people have to drive themselves. and We had actors that had car troubles and it like actually completely changed our film ah because of an and an actor's car trouble. ah yeah yeah film me dale that yeah We had an actor that had a car trouble and we had another actor that only had that weekend to shoot with us yeah and so those actors never got to have scenes together and that was a huge part of the film we were going to essentially shoot all that guy's scenes that weekend and then the actor like he was yeah dude my car is on fire like he's like it's literally on fire I'm like
00:31:37
Speaker
What do we do? Like, yeah we just, just look at Steven. I guess we cut all those scenes. Like our day is easier now. Shit. But you know, like, yeah, our those two actors are never on scene together and they were supposed to have a lot of scenes. So, I mean, in the end we had a lot of bloat. So, well, kind of worked out in a sense. But I can relate. Like one of the actors with the car thing one of that, one of the actors, she, I didn't know she was, she didn't drive. And then of course I find out like, wait, you don't drive?
00:32:04
Speaker
Like, And she even has a driving scene in the movie. Um, Alicia, she, I mean, at the end of the show, she was worth Cause I thought she's, she's great at the movie. Um, but, um, Yeah, I had to Uber her down. At first, I had to get someone Uber her because everyone was here sooner than she was going to arrive. So had to get an Uber to get her. was like, motherfucker.
00:32:27
Speaker
was like, goddamn, I wasn't, a you know, those things you don't account for. It's like you forget, like, you think everybody has is, you know, driving. And she she has a license, but I guess at some point, she just, like, when she went to LA, she stopped driving.
00:32:38
Speaker
So she was like, yeah she didn't have a car, you know? So now she does. She texted me, I think, like a year after the movie or almost two years after finished filming. She's like, hey, I'm driving again. was like, oh, nice. That's good. That's good. Well, Stephen.
00:32:54
Speaker
well so you Let me ah continue on with this sexy talk we've been having. um Yeah. So you mentioned skeleton crew. So if going into your next ah projects, whichever one, um what is, what is the skeleton crew for you? What are like the roles you need to have filled crew wise?
00:33:13
Speaker
Yeah. So for me, it would be like, so it'd be a DP, ah a sound recordist, with lab mics and a boom And...
00:33:26
Speaker
and and a boom mic um
00:33:30
Speaker
and anybody really that's like the main like that's that's the main thing me you know yeah me and the and the actors okay that's like to me that's like really what i need but i would have people be like i'll have like a pa a or a gaffer for you know for my dp at least one yeah two if if i can um and uh I mean, one day I'd like to have a person who, what is it called?
00:34:01
Speaker
i can't think of the term. The person that transfers the files into, yeah, that uploads the files. like That'd be nice, but also I'm also like skeptical because I'm i like I kind of want to do that, you know? yeah Because I'd be nervous. Yeah.
00:34:17
Speaker
i don't want I don't want to put that on somebody else that's not confident, you know, and I don't feel confident about it. but um well So someone to do that to, like, offload the parts. I say what's really cool for having a DIT that is solely doing um the digital... don I know it's as for something else, but essentially they do, like, they handle all the digital transfers, but they can also do, like, the file renaming right then and there. Organizing, yeah, yeah. So if I could find that, that'd be, like, a plus.
00:34:42
Speaker
But, like, and then, like, just, like... pet I guess, I don't know what you would call them, like just extra like like PAs or anybody that can do any extra stuff that I'm like, i need you to move that to just make the flow of the film.
00:34:56
Speaker
So I would say like if I can get like eight to ten people total, like ten people, not including not including the cast. That would be like, that's a skeleton crew for me. That's like a good, I think that's all you essentially need for like to enlist. It's like you're doing some big ass scene that requires a lot of moving parts. But if you're not requiring a lot of moving parts, I think 10 is like, if you can get 10, that's 10 people that you trust and that are going to be focused.
00:35:25
Speaker
That's a good skeleton crew right there. yeah What about a script supervisor, man? i didn't hear you mention that. Oh, yeah. you know yeah Do you think that's not too necessary? i I usually kind of do that, but I would okay i would i would definitely um delegate that to somebody else, like part of that, like extra crew, you know, I wouldn't necessarily come in with a script supervisor, someone that's like, yeah you're the script supervisor, but I'd be like, who is down to do this, you know? And then they'd be in, if I believe that they're down and they're confident enough, i'll be like, yeah, go ahead.
00:35:57
Speaker
do it yeah and i did have my costume person for director's cut she was a script supervisor too for for after in director's cut even though because she was there on set but she and she already did all like the art direction and the costume so she goes like a free hand you know so but she did a ah good amount of like uh the script supervising and she did great i thought yeah yeah I would say it's a job that ah is probably easily underutilized, but is absolutely critical. We have a buddy, Josh. That's how we felt.
00:36:26
Speaker
like He's super good at it. like He's like, oh, you know on take one, they said ah the before ah this line on the on take two. I'm just like, I didn't catch that. Yeah, my attention detail is nowhere near be script. You've got so many things in your head when you're filming it that it is nice to have that one person to kind of like...
00:36:45
Speaker
Oh, what? I totally missed that. Cause I'm thinking of, you're kind of looking at the frame and you're looking at their performances and you're not necessarily, it's easy to get lost in those little details like that. We're like, Oh, you're right. That kind of doesn't make sense now. Cause I didn't say, but I mean, if the actor is good, sometimes that's good. Cause you're like, Oh, it works, you know, either way. Yeah. But, um, but, uh,
00:37:06
Speaker
Another thing that I didn't have, um my DP did all the focus pulling and I'm on it by himself. I'm like, I'm for sure having a focus pull whatever budget is. I'm making sure I have a focus puller. That was our biggest problem is we didn't really have ah like a DP.
00:37:26
Speaker
Yeah, we didn't. You guys are the DPs, right? Yeah. Steven did like almost all of it. And then sometimes I'd be like, I want this shot, Steven. And he'd be like, we can't do that, buddy. I'm like, want that shot, Steven. Okay, okay. I do it, buddy. I do it. yeah. You're like, yes, master. I it. Definitely. I'm like, that's right.
00:37:45
Speaker
That's right. He was like, dash right but brain that's That's right. It says white on my hat. not
00:37:54
Speaker
No, yeah. Like, that was like, I always think back, like, I don't know how the fuck, like, half the time, like, we weren't even watching the shots. Like, I was doing focus pulling, Steven's manning the camera, and I'm just like, well, I'm just focusing on making sure the shot's in focus. And then if you watch the movie, now the shots are focused. I was like, what the fuck happened? Yeah.
00:38:12
Speaker
my ah My DP, Jeremy, um he's also like he's also a talented director, um but he he he's just more tech savvy and just like got into like the lighting of the camera stuff before me. And he's kind of like taught me stuff for sure. But i was like, I'll i'll focus. he's like, no, dude, you need to focus on the framing and the watching the actors. I'll do the focus. So he was like very gung-ho about it. I greatly appreciate him because he's... he's a and I mean, if anything that I'm definitely like happy about Director's Cut that I don't feel... it's like He did a great job with with with the lighting. and like i got i For me, at least. i I like what he did and and he was like he was just like a fucking trooper because that fucking ah easy rig, you know it fucking breaks your back.
00:38:59
Speaker
Yeah, does. Especially shooting for 12-hour days. He fucking... twelve hour days like um yeah fucking you know It was a good workout for him. He was fucking sweating balls. yeah sort We just had to switch off who was yeah holding doing the camera because of it was just too heavy all the time. Well, yeah. I mean, our camera was like 50 pounds.
00:39:17
Speaker
Yeah. 50 to 60 pounds. So, I mean, look at me and look at Tom. And guess who held the camera the whole time, you Yeah. This is interesting the way this works. Yeah. And he's not like a super big guy too, my buddy Jerry. He's probably smaller than all three of us. And he's he was fucking, he was he was putting in work. I even offered like a few times, but he was like, dude, just no, just I got it. You know, all right. He's a trooper because every time Tom offered, I was like, yes, please.
00:39:45
Speaker
well I would just watch him and it's like, God damn, buddy. I know it it's hard. It's struggling. but But also it's like you're also a director on your film, you know? So he was like fully cinematographer.
00:39:57
Speaker
So he was like embracing and He was just like, um this is my role. This is your role. You don't need to be doing that extra stuff. So he was he was he was a homie. He was fucking trying to make me get get the best what I can and just focus on directing because he knows I'd already been doing a bunch of other other shit like behind the scenes stuff. You know I'm also producing.
00:40:15
Speaker
So there's all this other shit that's, that's, that's going on. So I, you know, Jeremy, you know, he's a real one for in general, but definitely on that issue, he definitely made it. made it smoother.
00:40:25
Speaker
It could have been way, way less smoother for sure, but he definitely helped out a lot. No, that's awesome. And that's really important is for someone to understand their role and to work within that role. Because, you know, um a lot of times you have people not fulfilling the role or at least at our level, not fulfilling the role or trying to step out of bounds of that role. And it's like, look, bro,
00:40:47
Speaker
just focus on this one thing because I just want you to do that because at the end of the day, what you're doing requires a lot of focus, like being a DP yeah or being a script supervisor. You know, it's like, no, those those are really detail-oriented positions. So you really kind of have to just be focused on that or like directing, you know, for us. Yeah.
00:41:08
Speaker
it's hard It's hard when you're doing low budget, like, you know, like, yeah, because you got to do everything yeah because yeah you know you you only have so many hands on set. It's like you feel like you need to do everything, too. So it's like, that's true, too. You feel that but someone like does like dude i got it. Just chill, Just chill. yeah Yeah, that's hard too. Yeah, but it's hard even when they tell you that, right? it's like um remember i still I still need to hear this real quick. I need to check this yeah real quick.
00:41:35
Speaker
I'll never forget. I always remember we we would just get asked questions and we were like, we would tell them, well, I kind of want to see what your interpretation is. And then they would just be like, look, I i remember just seeing the blankest stare. it was like I was talking to a zombie.
00:41:48
Speaker
Well, yeah. What? There was no like I want, yeah you know, there they were like, well, how do you want the makeup done? I'm like, I don't know fucking makeup. Like, do it like, you know, i wanted her to look like she's tired or give me this like like I can say words at people like i always tell Stephen Ward talking to the composers. I'll say words at them and I hope it translates to meaning in the music. Like give me some intensity, make it, you know, stronger, faster, you know, like harder or whatever. And it's like, does that mean anything in music? I don't fucking know. It means something in my head.
00:42:16
Speaker
But it's like with like with the makeup and with stuff like that, I was just like, give me your interpretation of from reading the scene. And then we will go back and say, did you think we actually read this shit? Come on, man. We got day jobs. I don't know. It was like, ¿cómo se dice Reed?
00:42:32
Speaker
You're like, okay. Oh, shit. Okay, okay. Bro, yeah I agree with you, dude. I've had those fucking blank faces like as I've filmed stuff. in And and i that's why it helps when you're like you you're hiring like someone that you feel at least a good amount of confidence in that they know what they're doing already. So those notes are more like simplistic.
00:42:56
Speaker
But like I've been been there where I'm like... Am I over, like, like, does this, is this registering? Does this make fucking sense? I even like, I've told people like, does this fucking make sense or do you need, so like, and also then I've gone the other way I'm like being overly noty, like overly too specific.
00:43:14
Speaker
And that can also restrict the, the music, the composer or whoever, the you know, the, the person yeah that, uh, the sound, uh, the sound mixer, you know, like, so it's like trying to like give them the freedom that they feel like they're still creating something.
00:43:27
Speaker
without making like feel like I'm a bow constructor on their neck, you know, and I feel like I'm one of those fucking people because I don't want it. I'm not like that and I don't want to be like that. So it's like I'm always trying to find that right balance of like not trying to be such a fucking anal person about it and also let them just kind of, hey, I hired them to do this. Like i should give them some freedom to fucking cut loose.
00:43:50
Speaker
But if they're and everybody's different, obviously. Some people want that. those, just those specific fucking notes and that, the, the details, you know, like, um, and part of me sometimes when I, when people want it overly specific, like, I'm like, are you, this is just a gig for you. You know fucking give it, you know, is this just a gig for you?
00:44:09
Speaker
Yes. But then like, you're like some people like, like I like the switchblade holiday short, like the composer that she's from fucking, I think, uh, Oh my God, I forgot what country. She's from another country, European. And she was definitely like, she wanted to be able to cut loose. Well, the music for that short is fucking badass. I'm glad you liked it. So I kind of let her, I didn't go, here are references, but do your own thing. You know what mean? And I could tell. Yeah, that's how I kind of, I always subscribe to the Kubrick school where I'm like, I don't necessarily know what I want. I just know what I don't want.
00:44:45
Speaker
And I know that can be really frustrating because I'm like, throw me as many examples and samples as you can because I have what I have in my head, but I know... We can't have that.
00:44:57
Speaker
I know that's not going to happen because for whatever, like, especially with music, music is really hard, but I'm, I'm just thinking more of in terms of like but less of music and like just the composition of the shot. plum I'm like, yeah, it's like what I wanted was, you know, it's like we're shooting and like, we would shoot like in this room yeah for like a scene.
00:45:14
Speaker
And I'm like, well, I kind of was hoping like we'd have like, you know, like, tall ceilings with like a chandelier or something we could bounce a light off of interestingly and like make like an effect. And it's like, we don't got a chandelier, dude.
00:45:26
Speaker
We've got this shitty lamp. Like, what do you want me to do? Like, and this so it's like, well, let me, let's experiment and then see what is working what doesn't work. Cause it's so, it's, it's easy. It's easy to,
00:45:39
Speaker
Know what you don't want, I feel like. But it's frustrating for people when they're like, well, what do you think of this? No, doesn't work. What do think this? No, it doesn't work. You know what's funny? Because I was like, I have had that issue for sure where I'm like,
00:45:55
Speaker
Like, yeah, I kind imagined this, but I'm like, that's not fucking there. So don't worry about that fucking thing that's there. So that was a hard thing to adjust to where I'm like thinking, because you're in your head to the shot, you have like an image automatically.
00:46:07
Speaker
I mean, at least for me, I'm always like, I have an image and I'm like, I'm like, oh, well, I have to get that location. I have to get these things. Like, but the reality is when you're working with no budget or very little money,
00:46:20
Speaker
I've found a way to just just think of the framing and not worry about what's necessarily in the frame, but just focus on the actor because I do will have a person there.
00:46:32
Speaker
So just thinking of like the like if it's a medium, how that like the distance of the angle and all that. so of just cause So then when I get to location, then i can it's easier for me to kind of change my idea or adjust my idea you know what mean so you can kind of remove your bias i can remove my because originally i was i used to struggle with that all the time be like yeah yeah i'm like thinking of a full frame with it with the background stuff and all like but then i'm like oh that location not actually going to be the location that end up i end up filming so now i just try to think of it of just the frame with the actor in it but with like a blank canvas
00:47:10
Speaker
um so So kind of just a constant. Oh, that's really good. So then when we do get to the like get the location, I'm not disappointed. Because I'd be very disappointed. There's so many times where you just see how it all looks and it's like, fuck.
00:47:26
Speaker
You might still be disappointed, but but it's a lot easier to kind of digest yeah and here alter the shot and be like, oh wait, actually this is now better in the shot that I had. It's not going to work and um I can let that shot go.
00:47:38
Speaker
you know what mean? Easier. Yeah, yeah. That's important too, right? Is learning to let go. Because I mean, yeah with filmmaking, you got to just accept, you got to accept so much of just the situation that you're in on that specific day. Like, like Thomas talking about our actor that couldn't show up.
00:47:53
Speaker
yeah You just got to let go. It's like, well, there's not, we can, you know, we could, we could pout about it and get nothing done. or you could just, you know, pull up your britches and adapt. And like filmmaking is about, it like, is a a lot about adaptation.
00:48:07
Speaker
like I always think it's so funny. Whenever I watch Dickhead, I'm like, fuck, you can always tell like all our houses are rented because they got the same white walls. And it's like, first we try to put stuff up, but most of the time it's like, you know, you're just shooting against the white wall. and it's like, there's nothing more boring than just looking at a fucking white wall, ah an actor talk against a white wall.
00:48:29
Speaker
Yeah. You want that texture. Yeah. yeah yeah for that For the Switchblade Holidays, the scene where they're talking on the couch, that's all added on. I bought wallpaper and that's removable and put it up there just for that and just framed it in and then took it. That was the first time I ever did that. like, wow, I need to make sure to do that if possible or if I can cheat it. It does help to make the shot more interesting and stuff like that. It just gets your eye more. more to play with. I've that issue with like white walls, you know, like in a house, it's like, this is fucking, you know, it's an Airbnb, but it's going to have that same way. Yeah. And I always think it's, you know, it's always about the layer, right? Like film is about how it's about the depth
00:49:16
Speaker
as much as it is about you know how ah striking the image can be, this the more more depth of the image, the more striking it is. And there ain't nothing that has less depth, nothing more shallow than a white wall, I'll tell you that. It's like, are you doing an audition here or what? Oh my God. And it can work. White walls can work. But usually, if that's not your vision, then it's hard to make it Yeah, if that's not your vision, that's going to be hard.
00:49:43
Speaker
You have to envision it as a white wall to make it work. you yeah Or you have to do something with the lighting. Add some volumetrics. Throw like some... Ooh, volumetrics. That's a word to throw out there. Throw some fog. I'm a big fan of fog. I've probably been annoying Steven. We've got to put more fog. It's nice because it just diffuses the light and you can see the light. in like Physically, you can see the light yeah going through the room. Tony Scott was great at that.
00:50:13
Speaker
I think Spielberg uses fog a lot too. Or like not even fog. It's like, yeah, just give it like, it's, I guess fog, but like you give it like a little hazy, smoky. Yeah. It's more like haze than fog.
00:50:25
Speaker
Yeah. but No, definitely. i agree. Hold on, I'm going to grab my alcoholic beverage. Yeah, no worries. All right, don't worry. We're going to talk about you. the did The difference between like that is just ah fog's more wet, right?
00:50:37
Speaker
Yeah, literally. I think fog just kind of hangs lower to the ground where haze will kind of just fill the room a little bit more. It'll like evenly. But like, because, you know, i was watching Red One, that new.
00:50:49
Speaker
oh how'd you like it? I hated It it was so. It had a lot of cool concepts. And Because it's about Santa, right? Yeah. And like, Santa's like super like OP magical, which is pretty cool.
00:51:00
Speaker
You don't fuck with Santa on that one, huh? No, you don't fuck with Santa. And that's by J.K. ah Simmons, he plays Santa? Yeah. Yeah. And ah The Rock is like his bodyguard and Chris Evans.
00:51:11
Speaker
I was just like, something about it just felt so gross. but And then also the cinematography was disgusting. Well, also if The Rock's in a movie. I mean, I like The Rock. I thought he really could have been the next Arnold.
00:51:23
Speaker
Yeah, me too. But he just, he does really shit movies. And i and apparently he has a big ego. Yeah. and And that's probably what gets in the way of him. like Arnold had a big ego, but Arnold also did The Runny Man and you know Predator and Total Recall and it's like and Terminator. And it's like, well, you know those are just amazing movies. yeah i say no Those are just great movies.
00:51:50
Speaker
i I would say, out little at least for like until the 80s to... like
00:51:57
Speaker
Probably the 2000s. Arnold really didn't have a miss. Yeah, no. I mean, even ah name um Jingle all the way All the Way, Kindergarten Cop, True Lies. All these movies were just like, fuck yeah, Arnold's coming out with something. Hell yeah. I think it's even like the late 90s, Eraser.
00:52:14
Speaker
like It's not great. Honestly, his biggest miss and then after that it was like hit and miss was... um End of Days? No, Last Action Hero. Oh, I love that. Yeah, you do because you were like nine when you saw it. But that was like a huge flop and that was like his first big flop and then after that it it was real spotty.
00:52:32
Speaker
Yeah, well, commercially, yeah, I think Arnold had a few failures but like the thing I love about Arnold movies is like he he doesn't have a lot of misses, man. like No, he doesn't, man. Total Recall, like I watched that recently and I was like, man.
00:52:46
Speaker
Because, you know, I was like, whatever, I liked it. You know, i I didn't really understand it but I watched it much older was like, Because then I understand it it's a Philip K. Dick. Is that one Philip K. Dick?
00:52:56
Speaker
Yeah. and Okay. And then I watched it. I was like, damn, this movie is actually kind of it's got its layers. You know, Verhoeven, he has those layers in it. And then it's like, is it real? Is it not? This is so much better because, I mean, in my opinion, it was all a dream.
00:53:13
Speaker
Maybe, yeah. Right? He was just stuck in total recall and none of that was real. And then it's like, fuck. That's that's that's the beauty of that movie because it's like you could see you can go plenty routes with the what really happened. Well, I will say the scientists say, oh let's give them blue skies and Mars.
00:53:33
Speaker
Yeah. And that's what he that's how it ends. Blue skies and Mars. Well, I will say, you know, it's very akin in a weird way. It's a more science fiction version of Wizard Oz.
00:53:45
Speaker
a how so because you know dorothy all the characters and where there was represent real people that she knows yeah on the farm so like all those people are just like magical fantastical representations of people she already knows yeah like her neighbors like calvary lion coward line like shit like that like she knows all these people right like the salesman the actors are playing the actors are playing the characters in the in the movie yeah but in arnold's version he kills them all yeah Yeah, exactly. Well, I totally recalls like the science fiction version of it where it's like we're going to, you know, they but implant you with these like kind of like ideas of things.
00:54:17
Speaker
And then they, you know, they like inject you into the Matrix, essentially. But Wizard of Oz is like that was a direct Victor Fleming's choice to do that, because in the book, it's like she really goes to Oz. You know, it's not like. Yeah, yeah. It's not it's not like she was like having a psychological breakdown or something like that.
00:54:34
Speaker
Yeah, like it's it's clearly in the book she goes to a fantasy world. I mean, it's like Narnia clearly. yeah It's a weird. It's a real place. Yes. There's no like, oh, I was yeah imagining this like it's it's real.
00:54:46
Speaker
Oh, oh shit yeah. well did I always think right in the movie she wakes up and you were there. And you were there. Like, sure. I think it works in the movie for sure. I think it works. It makes sense for the movie because it gives. Oh, it adds so much more to the movie, right? Because it's also heartbreaking.
00:55:01
Speaker
Well, I'm curious to hear your guys' as opinion on this. i've Because I've always been thinking, I was writing, ah I've been working on a ah little short that I went to called Bottoms Up. And I always think, like, is it better?
00:55:13
Speaker
i know it's always, it's going to be, like, story dependent. But is it better for the supernatural to be real? Or is it better to, like, it to be all in an, like, an imagination metaphor? It's always better for me for it to be real. Personally for me.
00:55:28
Speaker
I'll say this is your first issue. You're using the word better. Okay. More appropriate? and How's that? No, not even appropriate. I guess you're right. there's no is it is Is it right for the story?
00:55:40
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. That's true. That's all that matters. That specific story. But i I could argue that you would always want it to be more fantastical just because you are telling fiction. No. No.
00:55:53
Speaker
Cause like 12 monkeys, right? What you think about that? Well, look at total recall. Yeah, exactly. Is it real? Is it not real? 12 monkeys is real, but like in total recall, is it real? Is it not? I mean, the reality is it wasn't.
00:56:05
Speaker
ah He was just lobotomized accidentally. right but So that's the real story. the trick The trick is to make it feel like you can justifiably see both sides clear. Like they're equally like – I think Total Recall, you could kind of go with both pretty like it happened and if it didn't happen.
00:56:23
Speaker
I think you could – you know what i mean? i feel like if you can really like portray that to the audience, it could be either one. I think that's like best case scenario where you can get like people being like – That really happened. And you can take at face value you as a fantasy and they really all happen. And you can also take it as like, oh, wow, maybe it didn't happen. You know what mean? Like Inception is another one like that, too. You know what mean? Has that yeah that kind of thing.
00:56:48
Speaker
And that's the great thing about it too is the fact that we're talking about it still right now. Was it real? Was it not? you know That's the best part of that of those aspects
Debate on Supernatural Elements in Film
00:56:58
Speaker
um for those films. Same thing with like Starship Troopers. Decker.
00:57:02
Speaker
Is Decker a – Decker, right? Is he a replicant or not? So I mean that's always a good thing. I love how people say he's not a replicant because I think the story is better. He clearly is a replicant. I think the story is better. And it's better too. agree. Yeah.
00:57:16
Speaker
It's better if he's a replicant. Um, if he's not, he's not right. Cause kind of Glee, he's still alive and replicants don't live that long and he wasn't special. Yeah. It was his partner. What's her name?
00:57:28
Speaker
Um, God, what is her name? Um, can hear the music in my head. Well, her her replicant, she was special one. Rachel. Rachel. she She was special. other replicant was special.
00:57:41
Speaker
Yeah. um And one of the things was, sorry, know like I could talk about Blade Runner for a while, but I want to say the thing I think that's really cool about Blade Runner is like the whole thing is like they're all people. Yeah, they're all people already. That's the worst thing. Replicate or not, those motherfuckers are just people. That's like a high sport of fucking AI right there, dude. I know, dude.
00:58:00
Speaker
They're literally they' yeah they're engineered to not live as long. Just engineered people. But as you were saying with your your script, so like is it better to be for the supernatural elements to be real or not?
00:58:12
Speaker
I would say... um It's more fun though, right? i would say No, I would say it it's it's dependent on the specific story you're telling. But also it's nice. I think it's also fun in general to not know, like, was it real? Was it not?
00:58:27
Speaker
Um, and then going from there, like, uh,
00:58:33
Speaker
and Kind of like with the Seventh Sense. What was Sixth Sense? Sixth Sense, yeah. Right? Because then you're kind of just piecing like, oh, did this really happen? did that not really happen? Like, oh, when the mom was sitting with Bruce Willis, she wasn't actually paying attention to him.
00:58:47
Speaker
and so So that can be really fun as as a watchback. And I think that's good in the extent to like get the audience still. I think it's always good to have people talking about the film afterwards. Yeah.
00:58:59
Speaker
And just not explain everything because I don't think you need to. Yeah. You know, not everything has to be understood and explained. don't, I think you should explain as little as possible. I don't think that's true because I would say.
00:59:10
Speaker
motherfucker. That is so true. No, what? Watch Dune. It's, it's circumstantial for sure, but. I would say watch Dune. ah One and two, the movies. Because you don't understand shit if you don't know those books.
00:59:23
Speaker
And then Karen was watching the TV show that came out of Dune. It's like ah where the Harkonnens are coming into power and establishing the sisterhood, whatever.
00:59:34
Speaker
The Bene Gesserit. The Bene Gesserit. So it's about that. And they're going off of the Villeneuve Dune. And she's like, dude, I don't understand anything in this fucking show. And she stopped watching it because nothing is explained.
00:59:48
Speaker
And it was like, that's fair. you know So I think you do need to do some amount of exposition. like you need to lot you The best type of writing is where you make the audience feel smart.
01:00:00
Speaker
So you've got to give the audience enough so that they can understand and and then allow them to figure it out I would agree with that, but I wouldn't necessarily think you need to do that by explaining anything.
01:00:11
Speaker
well you got to Well, yes, you have to You have to explain it to some extent. like Imagine Dune. I mean, when we first saw when we saw the first movie, What was my reaction to watching that? He kept asking, what's that, Tom? What's that? Yeah, exactly. I asked you every single minute. I'm like, Tom, what's that? What's that? What's that? Explain it to me. What's going on? And then you would explain it to me. And guess what? I enjoyed that so much better.
01:00:35
Speaker
And then I watched Dune 2 with my dad after i saw it with you. And, of course, we didn't talk with my dad. would talk to him. We just sit silently and nod at each other. And that's the best recognition I get.
01:00:51
Speaker
But... A Conan. But really, like... You know, there's just there's so much loss. Like, yes, I can kind of put it together because I'm watching something. And and if I just sit there and watch long enough, it might explain things. But no, like, it's nice to actually know what's actually going on in this world. And in Blade Runner, there's a lot of exposition that tells you what's going on.
01:01:13
Speaker
Yeah. Even though there's also not a lot, you still understand what a replicant is. love, you so I know Steven wanted Tom, I'm just going to I'm just going to say this.
01:01:24
Speaker
i for For me personally, because at the end the day, I can't speak. Everybody's going to have different, you know, what they prefer. Not for me. we just want to know what you care about. You only speak if you agree with me, Stephen. All This is time for Stephen's team. And i think I think, Stephen, you know, you said a lot of things that I agree with, you know, like perspective wise.
01:01:43
Speaker
But. For me personally, he's very good at this, but I disagree completely. I usually I usually prefer when it's something that's actually happening, then finding out later it all happened in the person's head.
01:02:02
Speaker
Now, yeah, that's that's always a cheap cop out. Yeah, that's a bad But it's like, but oh, it was just a dream. But but if you could pull it off. that it's not actually, they're not actually experiencing these fantastical things and you could pull it off.
01:02:17
Speaker
ah That's actually, that's even, that's almost more impressive. that's more impressive And I commend anybody who can pull off those type of cause that's a trope now. It's all my head. You know what mean?
01:02:28
Speaker
So if you could pull that off like it and it can feel like a fresh take on that, that's also i get like That's also very satisfying for me. You know what i mean? But I normally prefer that it's actually happened because I don't feel most people can most people pull it off when it's like, oh it was just in my head.
01:02:45
Speaker
rather like... i'd rather go with like You know, i like i said, i I rather if it's not happening, i prefer where you can view it as it did happen or you can also view it as did it actually happen.
01:02:58
Speaker
But like if you're going to do that thing where you're you're like, it's all in this character's head, he's actually in a mental asylum or whatever the fuck it is. you it that's going to be like the filmmaking is going to have to make that work more than anything so if they pull it off it i feel i'm usually like oh wow that's impressive that they could pull off that trope because it's such a trope now you know mean like it's all my head it's such a lame one right and it's one of the lamest ones that you can do but if you pull it off because take away all the stakes from it right you took away all of the like
01:03:31
Speaker
the stakes, you know, from that one. Yeah, it's yeah, that's There's very few movies where they do that or anything. That really, like, one of my favorite ones is I think pulls it off is,
01:03:43
Speaker
It's low-key like a Jalo film too, but if they pull it off really well um is Identity with John Cusack. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. That one is one of like the one one of my favorite ones where it's like it's literally in someone's head. like It's happy. But that what it is, what the reveal is, is more interesting than just like him finding out he's like...
01:04:01
Speaker
in some fucking padded room or just like in the, you know, he just offed himself. I don't know what, but, um, that one, I feel like they pulled off that element. Also, you got to deliver on the goods too. You know, you're going to be doing that stuff. You know, the buildup has got to be pretty fucking great too. If you're going to be like, pull the rug from under you and be like, Hey, it's actually not real. You know, it's all fantasy in someone's head.
01:04:22
Speaker
So it just, it just depends. What about this example of that? The Usual Suspects. Not to give spoilers away because I think that's movie you don't give spoilers away on. But what about that one? What the fuck? Spoilers for Usual Suspects? Bro, they haven't seen it now. No, no, no.
01:04:37
Speaker
ah No, but really like we're all in the head, right? Usual Suspects because literally... He's telling the story. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. What's real? What's up? So you're realizing you're not...
01:04:49
Speaker
You're hearing a very unreliable na unreliable narrator. I agree. And that's a great one. That's a great one. you i was getting Because that's like the greatest twist
Script Analysis and Movie Twists
01:04:57
Speaker
in my opinion. No, actually, well i was in texas just wow was this why yeah while I was in Texas, I was thinking about this. And it was actually after I finished, i was i went to the gas station and I got like a little handle of ah some ah wild turkey. and i was At the gas station? yeah the gas station. Who was driving?
01:05:13
Speaker
No, was just like in the hotel across the street. Oh, nice. So I walked over there and I got like i got some like hot Cheetos and some some whiskey. That's good on the gut. I sat down to ah read Stephen's script. the um Oh, nice. Switchblade Holiday, yeah. Switchblade Holiday. And... ah I was reading and was thinking, you know, was thinking about Usable Suspects that popped up in my head.
01:05:35
Speaker
and I was thinking, fuck, what if Kaiser Soze is like completely made up? Like how like the legend of him is completely made up. It's just part of the story that is being told. You never really know. And that's what I was like, that's actually a little more interesting than the fact that there's like this mythical being named Kaiser Soze that like... Well, that's the unreliable narrator, right? Like how much what's true in any of this?
01:05:58
Speaker
Yeah, because that one, I think, pulls it off pretty well, because like it's nothing I can. All I know is you had up here got away with it.
01:06:09
Speaker
That's all I know. But but also but also what works in that movie is like the story that he's telling great. like grounded and very immersive. So like, yeah, when you start thinking about those things after the fact, you're like, holy fuck, that makes it even better. You know what mean? I love that. That's okay. My favorite. You know you brought up, so you said that's your favorite twist in a movie. Maybe, maybe it's not, you're saying that right now, but maybe it's one of your favorites for sure. Right? No, I think for sure that is my favorite.
01:06:37
Speaker
Because that's a hard question for me to answer. But that's up One of the other ones would be like Planet of the Apes, you know? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. yeah. Classic one. That's classic one. mean, maybe that would be like the biggest ever. then that also kind of comes out of nowhere, right? Where like with the usual suspects, it's always there from the start.
01:06:54
Speaker
It doesn't come out of nowhere. For Planet the Apes? I don't think it does. How? Well, the only thing that doesn't make sense. Where does it foreshadow? Well, that you know that there are people and they speak English.
01:07:08
Speaker
Oh, they only speak English. See, leave it to the one guy. They only speak English. I get what you're saying, Tom. I get what you're saying, Tom. Their existence is the foreshadowing that that could have been possibility.
01:07:22
Speaker
but it's later you got it rich you and no look i don really But it's not as it's not as a it's not like it's not like horses mother it's not like po there it's It's established so early that you don't feel – it could feel a little bit out of nowhere. I agree with that.
01:07:39
Speaker
but look at No one's ever complained about that twist, so clearly it was done well. No, but I think i think i think it was – I never also watched the whole movie. I've only watched the beginning in the end. ah you It's been a long time since I've seen it. So I probably, it'd be like a fresh watch if I watch it again. But, ah um, it's all okay well Tom, what about you? Do you, what's your, do you have any twist? Yeah. What like, what are the, I know that's a hard question answer like off the top of your head, but like, what do you, what comes to mind?
01:08:05
Speaker
I've always thought that that's why I just was easy to say usual suspects. And it's a great one. It's a valid. Thank you, Steven. I would say one that, elevates the film is Sixth Sense. Yeah, I mean, that's always like a good one. Because once you watch it back, knowing the twist makes the film better in a sense. Yeah, yeah.
01:08:24
Speaker
Also, you can rewatch it over and over again. It gives it so much replayability because of that. Yeah, because a lot of times it's well, don't spoil the twist because then I don't want to watch it. and I'm like, well, I ain't watching Trap ever again. I'll tell you that.
01:08:36
Speaker
Have a soft spot for Trap, but yeah. Oh, God, dude. Me too, Steven. We got to get into that. I was watching it just like, don't roll your eyes, Tommy. They'll never come back.
01:08:53
Speaker
But yeah, for twists. Can I say something? You guys talked about it in your latin in the most recent podcast. Don't Look Now's twist is pretty up there for me.
01:09:05
Speaker
um don't look now has a very good twist know you haven't seen it yet steven what's that look that don't look now uh donald sutherland yeah oh yeah i haven't seen that no and uh their daughter their daughter i heard i have to watch it yeah their daughter dies in a tragic accident and he starts seeing her try to watch it numerous times and i can't you know what steven yeah that's that's probably the best whi because i remember when i saw it i was like oh my god they fall with there and I can't believe how much I love it. Oh yeah, Tom built it up like that. It's a top 10 twist for sure in my opinion. That's a movie that's not talked about at all either. It's so fucking good.
01:09:40
Speaker
It has really low ratings like on Rotten Tomatoes. But it's so good skin is so good. It's also like another very like, I would call it a Jallo film too. It's very like dealing with, because Jallo films deal with like amateur sleuths psychic stuff like that and yeah dude that twist is fucking wicked dude I I that twist like blew my mind when I first I was like first of all the audacity for there to just go be so like fucking crass of what it is yeah dude I was but I was like laughing my ass off because I was like oh yes so impressed it's so like wow I was like I can't believe it and that's why whenever I watch movies like that like um have you ever seen Alice Sweet Alice
01:10:23
Speaker
Love that fucking movie. That movie has a twist kind of like that too. Where. Yeah. Yeah. Cause it's kind of like, dude, Oh, is she, is she doing it? And then it's like, this is who the fucking killer is.
01:10:33
Speaker
Are you fucking kidding me? That's another, that's another, uh, that's another Jalo film. That's fucking dope. Yeah. um Yeah, one thing I will say about Giallo's too. You know what i mean? Yeah, well, it's like they always say like you know the Giallo has to have like the black gloved killer, right? The stiletto, the switchblade. There's trucks for sure, yeah, yeah. There ain't no giallo with a chainsaw. you know Yeah, exactly. you like the um yeah yeah there's It's very intimate. They're like they're kind of sexy. There's like an eroticness to giallo films too. yeah Usually also they have very like
01:11:11
Speaker
like very kind of wild a lot of them that kind of like lurid uh reveals like of like the motivation of the killers like some fucking wild shit like yeah trauma that they experience usually sexual or something obviously violent and stuff like that um but they usually like kind of have like a very like me so crazy type performance at the end or something like that like uh yeah but uh but that's like so But they always have a good yeah good reveals. Yeah, but don't look – I'm trying to think of another one that I like. ah Honestly, you know i really like – honestly, I like it more than – over time, I've liked it more than the Sixth Sense twist, even though I love that one. That's clearly a top 10, but for me, i I love the Unbreakable twist.
01:11:59
Speaker
of Mr. Glass. um And it's almost like crazy because it in hindsight, it's like obvious, but it's also not obvious because they make you feel for Samuel Jackson, for Mr. Glass. And they actually like the idea of him being like,
01:12:16
Speaker
in cahoots with David Dunn and like maybe being like his Oracle, you know, or like his, his commissioner Gore or, you know, like a so a sidekick, you know, but like from the, like the tech guy sidekick, you know, something like that, yeah like that could be like a a partnership for the future.
01:12:33
Speaker
But the reveal is simple and so good. It's so good. It's so good to me, and it it gets me every time. I don't know. like a I just love that twist. it just it's It's not as, like I guess, bombastic as The Sixth Sense. Like, well, you've been dead this whole time.
01:12:49
Speaker
But it's also like – To jump off on that, I think something that's interesting is like the best twist, you want them to not be the twist. Yeah, it's emotional twist. Because you're like, damn, I was really down with them being like friends and they had, they grew this.
01:13:03
Speaker
He helped him find out his, his potential and his meaning in life type thing. And well, they helped each other, but yeah his version is, his meaning it is like very nefarious and fucked up. Right. um But that's it's always, I fucking love that twist so much.
01:13:18
Speaker
And I prefer it more than six cents personally, but. thats really It is a really good one. But I always think about that with Psycho. How when you watch Psycho, you know Marion's going to die.
01:13:30
Speaker
You know she's going to die in the shower. dies. And you just and you every time that's a time i watch it. Oh yeah, that's probably the greatest twist Every time I watch it, I'm like, God, I don't want her to fucking die. like She's almost got away with everything.
01:13:43
Speaker
She's going to meet up with her honey. She's got the money. That's a great one. She's got the money. Right? And it's like this super suspenseful, like almost like kind of like femme fatale noir kind of setup where it's like she's still – running off with the money. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, exactly. she's going to be with her lover. you know It's kind of like – I really like Psycho 2's twist. i don't know if you guys seen Psycho 2. I love – Dude, the thing about Psycho 2 is – I hate that people shit on the Psycho sequels, but they're so good. They're so good. 2 and 3 are good. Yeah. 4 is not even terrible either. 4 is like fine. Yeah, the new beginning.
01:14:18
Speaker
But 2 is Psycho, the new beginning. The new Psycho. The new beginning. there there Well, first of all, to me, actually, Psycho 2 is like really...
01:14:30
Speaker
Like to me, that's like a level movie for me. and To me, that's no, it's super good. It's psycho three gets like very B movie, but a high quality B movie. You know what i mean? Psycho psycho two is essentially is what dickhead two would be.
01:14:43
Speaker
Oh goodness. he' I'm not going down that road I'm always pitched dickhead too to Steven if we ever have to get if they're like well we'll we'll we'll finance a franchise if you want it's like I guess we have to because my thing is like it's a one and done like everyone essentially dies at the end but if but we could fake it if we wanted to You could always make a sequel for more money. No, not everyone does.
01:15:09
Speaker
There's at least one survivor. Yeah. Tom survives. Yeah. Mechanically, Tom survives. Yeah. Trust me, if they flash you the money, you'd be like, I could come up with a sequel. Oh, yeah. That's why we've been thinking about it. Like, yep, we already got it. Well, Tom has it in the bag, actually. He has a much better movie than the original.
01:15:26
Speaker
Yeah. And yeah, it's like, let's go. I'm ready. Nice. nice Just in case. It's called the dickening. Dickhead to the dickening. It's called serious deep dicking. that' that's that That's the third one. That's the trilogy. How deep will we go? and it's just like yeah Tom just gets more retarded.
01:15:44
Speaker
yeah He's got lean into it. ah But Steven, you should definitely check out Psycho 2. Don't look now. Oh, and don't don't look now for sure. Yeah, no, I've been trying to watch Don't Look Now for a while, but um everything I looked on streaming, or at least the streaming stuff I had, didn't have. Not on there? have Yeah, wasn't because I think I checked Amazon and I had a rent and I'm like, fuck, I ain't spending money. I'm not spending three bucks. I'll get on the flex, buddy. I ain't spending fucking four bucks.
01:16:15
Speaker
but yeah, it's good. Yeah, yeah all so all the Psycho sequels are good. The second one is really cool. I love that one. I personally like it more than... than the original Psycho. No, you don't. I do. I I You're just saying that to be cool.
01:16:27
Speaker
i so I swear. And I love the first... know if did a side-by-side, you'd be like, yeah, Psycho's better. yeah i think you know Psycho's better, but you might like Psycho 2 better. The only reason Psycho... i I don't argue with anybody that says it's better because it's the original one.
01:16:46
Speaker
Without Psycho, there's no Psycho 2. So I don't argue anybody with that. But... If you're talking about things that you'd rather see and more rewatchable, Psycho 2 is more rewatchable for me. Oh, well, I don't know if that's... I mean, I'd rather watch RoboCop than Space Odyssey.
Sequel Quality and Necessity Debate
01:17:02
Speaker
But it's not just rewatchable because it's entertaining. It's just a good fucking sequel idea, dude. It's really a goddamn... It feels like real sequel to Psycho. Jennifer Kelly's sister...
01:17:15
Speaker
Meg Tilly, I think. She's the one that's like warming the Norman, right? She's like the main girl in it, yeah. And she's just like, why is everyone so mean to you, Norman? Well, I did murder some bitches, you know? Well, you know, that's the thing I would say with sequels. There's like so few...
01:17:30
Speaker
good sequels right like that can stand up next to the original empire strikes that's what i that's what i mean for sure it could definitely to me objectively it can stand up towers there's a few like there's not a lot of sequels nightmare and elm street 3 might oh no the original is really good But it stands it could stand next to the original for sure.
01:17:51
Speaker
Three is really good, though. Well, the thing is, like you were saying. Well, Halloween 2, I think, stands. Really? I'm not a big Halloween 2 guy. I love Halloween 2. I love Halloween 2 personally. I love Halloween 2 because it's just like. Especially the way it starts. and It's such a cocaine movie, and I love cocaine movies, man.
01:18:08
Speaker
i agree. I like the opening of Halloween 2 a lot. I really do. But I do feel like... The opening is perfect. I really do. That's the best part for me, like but I feel like it kind of loses –
01:18:22
Speaker
ah something It loses something for me. and i Granted, i haven't seen it in ah in a good while, probably like five years, maybe seven years. But I'm not against rewatching it, but it it just it loop and loses something. I just don't like Laurie being comatose essentially for the whole movie or being in a hospital bed. like Michael's your half-brother and he has to kill you. and Yeah, that's dumb. That's where I'm like, just shut up. Just cut that out and it would be better. And there's no like in all the hospital employees that get killed, like are very like killable and just like, you know what
Horror Film Analysis and Critique
01:18:54
Speaker
i mean? That's what I'm saying. It's so fun. I love it when they're killable. It's such a cocaine movie in the sense that they were just like, well, fuck it. Throw it on the screen. I mean, i like Loomis and everything in it, but like there was never supposed to be a ah sequel. That's the other. I feel it feels like a movie that didn't need a sequel.
01:19:09
Speaker
Well, there wasn't supposed to be. a Yeah. Right. Yeah. But they flashed that money to John, dude. They like John money. Right. and That's why all right I think of You got to think about that director's cut sequel, Steven. Nobody's asking for that one. You just wait. You just wait. yeah I want to see more, man. I want to see ah him develop into more of a killer. And i want to see when he becomes that crime lord and he's just controlling all these people and manipulating them. It's like, oh, shit, he's a puppet master now.
01:19:37
Speaker
Running out of a video store a store. I'll be lying if I haven't thought of something, but I've never i've never fully been like, hey, I'm going to really put my...
01:19:48
Speaker
like really pick it out thoroughly, but I've definitely thought of like, okay, I have some ideas, but never like anything like really fleshed out or anything like that. Cause I'm, cause I'm not a sequel guy. I'm just, honestly, I'm like a guy who wants to move on to a whole new, maybe same universe.
01:20:03
Speaker
I'm totally down for that. But like, that's what I'm saying. Switchblade. but but When I was reading it, that opening, I'm like this. Well, I was like, did you just write director's cut again? And then it, then it kind of, you're like, no, it's like the kind of like a, like a cold open, like a long cold open.
01:20:18
Speaker
Yeah, I wanted to do like a slasher cold open. like Yeah. I was like, oh, he watched Dickhead and he copied us. not yeah no No, I definitely wanted to do the traditional slasher cold open then like the rest of the movie not be like a murder mystery. Yeah, what I love, I mean, i don't know how much you want to get into that script, but because I read it recently and I was just thinking like, you know, I love that it's, it kind of, it defies it defies the tropes where it's like what happens after.
01:20:44
Speaker
And that's kind of like the the premise of the story because it's like the montage of all the holiday killings happen and then the story happens. like The story is kind of like what happens like like when Jason retires. like What happens to Jason 10 years later? It's basically like getting the band back together type movie. That sounds interesting.
01:21:03
Speaker
And they're trying to get ah the one that got away is kind of like the the nugget of the movie, you know which is the final girl. They're trying to get their only victim that got away. And they regroup that's because they find her whereabouts in some serendipitous type of way. And one of them, you know they're like, hey, you want to you know, you want to finish this. They have alternative motives to why they want to do it.
01:21:25
Speaker
Um, yeah but, um, but also just kind of like to kind of close a loop and kind of like close a chapter in there. Yeah. yeah kind to Close a chapter their lives in their lives. Essentially. Yeah. Cause they're really different places. They're really different places. Like when when yeah it it like starts off and then you get like,
01:21:44
Speaker
a decade gap of when you see them again. Oh, that's pretty interesting. I was thinking it's very akin also to natural-born killers a little bit or that kind of thing where it's these two people that meet that kind of synchronize.
01:22:03
Speaker
But very influenced by like holiday slasher movies. i was I was going to say it's also kind of timely because there was that ah what violent nature or something. In a violent nature. In a violent nature where it's kind of like subverting and and going towards more of the killer's perspective. I did see that. I feel like in lot that third act, ah they kind of they kind of lost it in the third act personally.
01:22:25
Speaker
um I'd say congratulations to you because I didn't make it past the first. I was going to that movie was a giant piece of shit, but... i mean i i I feel like... It had a lot going for it. I was like, oh, this is why you never show the killer's perspective.
01:22:40
Speaker
I liked To me, it's a vibe movie. You know what mean? It's one of those movies. I can see why people don't like it and I dont wouldn't argue with them. But i I feel like...
01:22:51
Speaker
there's There could have been some trimming of like certain kills. I didn't need to see the whole process of it, which I think was like, well, okay, that kill is just like going on. um i think they should have just come... That Terrifier. Yeah, i which I'm going to i'm going to watch Terrifier 3 soon. I haven't it yet. Oh, God. I want to hear your your a take on it because I refuse to watch it. Okay. I don't think Tom's going to watch it.
01:23:15
Speaker
I'm going to watch it because like Terrifier 2. I don't like Terrifier 1. Oh, no. i don't like Terrifier... I like Terrifier 1. I hated Terrifier 2. I like Terrifier. You know, Terrifier 1, I was like, oh shit, this might be like the new Michael Myers. Jason, new Freddy, yeah. I've always liked his character, like Art the Clown, like his design. I think that's cool.
01:23:37
Speaker
But I was like, how is this movie fucking getting a sequel? i was kind of really mind blown that it got a sequel. It's a fourth, man. Yeah, I know. But like when Terrifier 2 was coming out, I was like... what the fuck? And then I was, and then I saw it and I was like, well, it looked better in the trailer, in my opinion. Like, I'm like, okay, at least they put a little bit more production value and stuff like that.
01:23:56
Speaker
And then I watched it and at least they attempted to have some type of more of a mythology to art and stuff like that. So I i was with it and liked, and I liked, liked the final girl. I liked, I liked her. I thought she was good. ah The Valkyrie. Laura Laverna or whatever. She was, I thought she was pretty good.
01:24:15
Speaker
I like her, but I like that they set up questions and I don't know if Terrifier 3 answers these questions at all, which they probably won't. You'll have to let us know. But I'll let you know. You'll have to let us know. because there's I will say it was wait it was way too long, Terrifier 2. I think personally, and it was and I like long movies, yeah the movie should have been, it was like two hours and a half.
01:24:35
Speaker
I think it could have been, i think two hours would have been a nice cut of that movie. I think 30 minutes would have been good for that film. Yeah. I just remember because Steve when i watched it together and it was like, God damn, this movie just won't fucking end, dude. Oh my God.
01:24:50
Speaker
But then the other thing too is like, I feel like, and then this is also a big point of contention Steve and I have had over the show is like, I think that John wicked it. And I always think because the first John Wick. He hates John Wick now. I like the first one and I fucking hate every single sequel that they've made.
01:25:07
Speaker
They've only gotten worse in opinion. I'll be honest. I've only seen the first one and I haven't seen any of the sequels probably because of what Tom is about to say right now. Honestly, Steven, that's probably a good idea. So it's like so they it's like you get this awesome movie where you set up all of these like things that could never actually be matched.
01:25:22
Speaker
These little nuggets, right? Right. like It's like, yeah, he's the Baba Yaga. Like, oh my God, like no one can fucking touch this guy. like Art, he's this crazy p clown. He's Kaiser Soze. He's Kaiser Soze. Do you want to see like Usual Suspects 2, Usualer Suspects? No, you don't. Kaiser Soze's Conquest? Yeah, no, you don't, because it sucks.
01:25:42
Speaker
And that's what I felt like Terrifier 2 was that they just like were like, oh, well now there's a demon girl. and Let me me explain all this stuff going on. there's like There's a demon that's possessing people, and then it's like... It really got that deep, Terrifier 2? Yeah, dude. Damn, I really shut my brain off for that one It really goes into it like i right where there's like there's the high table and the low table and everyone's an assassin. And I've heard people complain about Terrifier 2 like that like Terrifier 1 and kind of similar things like like I mean, look, if you're going to just if you didn't want that extra, I mean, attempt of trying to add some type of Lord art, then like, yeah, you just might as well just remake Terrifier 1 and make it like better visually. You know, that that is my problem with it was it felt like.
01:26:26
Speaker
It felt like it had that kill. It had some stuff, but it also felt like I just fucking hated the aesthetic of Terrifier 1 so much. I couldn't stand it. Really? I like that. What do mean the aesthetic? The color grade I was not a fan of.
01:26:39
Speaker
I just did not. I loved it. It wasn't poorly shot. like The compositions, it wasn't terrible or anything like that, but I just did not like the... I think they improved it in Terrifier 2, the aesthetic, at least visually, personally. Oh, I'm the complete opposite there. That actually makes me want to re-watch to see what you mean, but I- Because to me, I thought Terrifier, the interesting thing about Terrifier 1 was that it was the most aesthetically like one of those original 80s slashers.
01:27:07
Speaker
and Those were the, like, to me, like, I love 80s slashers. but The burning, ah yeah you know, like, don't go in the house. Bro, I can't, i i you can't compare the burning's quality to the fucking Terrifier's, bitch. No, the burning is, the burning looks great, dude. The burning is way better. Don't get me wrong. Steven, you always just earned my respect so much more. I've never seen the burning, but the fact that you made that statement. I love you, man. But I, like, I like i know people that are, like, on- You're the only Steven I like.
01:27:39
Speaker
Hey, what about the other Steven that was on the show? I hate that fucker. yeah He did make a movie that we did shit on a little bit. I feel bad about that. But no, no, Tom, i I look, I know there's people that I know share your belief um on that. it's it's And they're smart. And that's cool. it's It's valid, you know. it's It's valid, you know. But again, the Terrifier, I do feel like...
01:28:03
Speaker
You could also trim out like the killings. They don't need to be overly long like that. Like, I just don't hate women that much. Yeah. Well, I would i would say, i don't it's funny you that i don't I don't mind the violence or the gore in the films because I think that's actually a huge highlight is the fact that they're doing all this practically.
01:28:22
Speaker
um i think it's hilarious. That's one thing I think a lot of people take yeah from them is that they're comedies. They're in the most fucked up sense of the word. They're a comedy. I mean, it's masturbatory is how I see the film. Have you ever seen Ricky O?
01:28:36
Speaker
no I love that movie. and it's like when you watch to me To me, ah it's masturbatory. and that's how That's how I see Terrifier. What's wrong with masturbatory? I jerk off like 45 minutes a day, man. I love it. I don't want to be jerking off with that shit.
01:28:50
Speaker
Well, don't like to use the blood for the lube. I like the lights dim. I like candle lights. you know I like the toilet paper nearby. and I like the Vaseline there.
01:29:01
Speaker
Steve is the guy that's like... When I watch Before Sunrise, I get so hard. I i want to meet that girl just once, baby. I want to see Sade playing in the background like smooth up. and that' that's That's fair. it It is definitely very self-adulgent. It's self-aggrandizing. It's self-aggrandizing. Terrifier is masturbatory and it's misogynistic.
01:29:30
Speaker
Yes. Yeah, but that's fine. No, that's not fine. Yeah. but i'll I'll say this. like I guess i guess it's it's fine in the sense of fictional comedy. It's hard for me to call anything like... We gave women jobs. Oh, no.
01:29:46
Speaker
and It's hard for me to say it's misogynistic and all that stuff. like ah For like a lot of stuff. like I don't know. I don't think he was... I don't think Damien Leone is like there going like, yeah, I want to fucking murder. I mean, he kills that other dude, like very vicious, like plenty of dudes in the movie. I think it's pretty equally, it's pretty, the quality of death is pretty, pretty equal. Right. I mean, and they have that. not at all Not at all. I mean, yes, that one scene is the longest for sure. I will say, i would say that the director, he doesn't realize this and he's portraying it on film.
01:30:22
Speaker
I get what you're saying. I think he's completely oblivious to all of this. If we were to say your best film is misogynistic and masturbatory, you'd be like, no, I don't masturbate to this shit. Come on. But I guess that's the thing. He would be against it. If I would have felt like he had nefarious intentions, then that would be a little different. But don't feel like he had nefarious intentions to be like, yeah, I want you guys to see this fucking blonde. I think it's just natural.
01:30:48
Speaker
You know, like racist. They don't really think they're bad I guess you can look at it that way. but Racists don't think they're bad people. They just happen to be racist. Here's the difference with Terrifier 1 and Terrifier 2. There's a that female character. She's...
01:31:01
Speaker
she fucking owns art, you know, at the end of the day. Yeah. The racist always has to say, i got a black friend. You know what I'm saying? All right. Well, you're reaching on me. You know what saying? I got a black friend, you know, it's like, Oh yeah. Okay. you would like all I guess, I guess we'll never know unless we met him, but I guess he ain't ever coming on this podcast. I'll tell you that.
01:31:25
Speaker
they meanly I think we need to have more confrontational podcasts where people like, hey, I wasn't crazy about your film, but let's talk about it you know like in a civil way. do yeah yeah I think that's fine. Because so many people are afraid to talk shit on anything like artistic and it's like, no, if something sucks, it's fine. and And I think also filmmakers need to be honest about their like, I'm pretty sure every film, even if they made like a widely accepted movie that like is considered great.
01:31:55
Speaker
I guarantee you they still have like, yeah, but I fucking hate, like I actually have issues with my own third act or the middle of the movie. Like, like you gotta to be honest with yourself and it's okay to be like,
01:32:07
Speaker
There's nothing wrong with critique. Not everything worked, but I'm glad it worked for you. You know what I mean? if Yeah, there's nothing wrong with critique. and you know it's long like alliance it's just my ah It's just my opinion. making a Terrifier like yeah clearly no one feels the way i do well it's the highest i box office.
01:32:27
Speaker
Independent box office. Yeah. yeah yeah Yeah. And with what you're saying about the as long as there's like it's not just like you're telling me it sucks. But without giving me your reasons or like a constructive reason.
01:32:39
Speaker
Yeah. That's one thing. See when I have been striving towards more and more because I remember when we first started the show, you'd be like, Every movie sucks. It fucking sucks. We weren't wrong. It was just like, it's so hard. ah It's so long and tiring to go through like why it sucks.
01:32:54
Speaker
You know, because I remember one big one. To go through why Terrifier sucks. There's a long list. You can, and again, you don't need to waste the whole episode on that. Yeah, and I don't even think it sucks. Why do I got to explain why it sucks? I remember the the big one was, was ah I don't know about you, Stephen, on the um the call, but Stephen and I, didn't we don't like Knives Out.
01:33:20
Speaker
Okay. I hated Knives Out. can i make a Can I make an assumption? I'll say Stephen, with a V, is not a big fan of Knives Out. This is the test, the ultimate test.
01:33:33
Speaker
um i I think you respect it, and perhaps. i have no you like I have no real gripes with Knives Out. I don't love it. I think it's a solid film, but I'm not like, i'm not someone answer I'm not someone who's like, I haven't rewatched it in a while. So it's not like a movie that I go back to, but I remember not, I enjoyed my time watching it, but I wasn't like, whoa, this is like the greatest like clue remake, you know, or anything like that. I got a lot of praise.
01:34:03
Speaker
Steven, if I could say one thing, if there's anyone who's going to go far, man, it's going to be you. You just know how to answer things so perfectly. and so It's not a bad thing. You just know how to answer questions so well.
01:34:16
Speaker
That's what I'm saying. I appreciate you. I don't know about people. I mean, I think you're the first person ever say that. No, dude, you you really know how to give a good response because it's like, you're right. you know Whenever you you have your your response, it's like, well, I can't disagree with what you're saying.
01:34:34
Speaker
even though I want to. yeah I mean, I could disagree, but I'm not going to be like, you're fucking wrong. Cause like at the end of the day, it's subjective, right? Even if you feel it's it's all an objective, even if i strongly feel it's objective at times, you know, I'm sure you guys feel certain like, man, this is fucking objectively bad yeah or objectively good.
01:34:54
Speaker
And my thing is, i'm just happy that people like love stuff or that people like stuff. Yeah.