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TSP Ep 140: From Thoughts to Reality or How we Learned to Stop Worrying About the Project and get it off the Ground
27 Plays16 days ago
In this episode, Tom and Steve are joined by special guest, Alex Duarte. The three discuss using Go Found Me and the pros and cons of it. Then Tom and Steve discuss The New Yorker article: In Defense of the Traditional Review by Richard Brody, and more filmmaking stuff that was geared towards Alex, but he ditched us.
So come along with us as we learn a thing or two!
If you would like to read The New Yorker article you can find it here:
https://www.newyorker.com/culture/the-lede/in-defense-of-the-traditional-review
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Transcript
Introduction and Guest Welcome
00:00:00
Speaker
All right, we're live. All right, we're live. So we have a special surprise. We have Alex Duarte. Did I say that right? Duarte, but it's okay. Duarte here for about 10 minutes.
00:00:16
Speaker
Oh, yeah. To ah give us some updates on what, buddy? On, I guess, Mr. Rico. Yeah. So what's up with that? How's that going? I keep thinking it's Uncle Rico. Steven's got me fucking... He's got me. I told you, Uncle Rico. I've officially... like a I appreciate the that you mentioned it, but and I'm going to stick with ah ah Mr. Rico. He almost said it.
00:00:42
Speaker
almost said it. rolls off the tongue. That's all I know. It does. vote But I don't want it. a great. I don't i don't want people getting confused. That's my main gripe about it. I don't want people thinking Napoleon Dynamite.
00:00:55
Speaker
Yeah. I don't know. We'll we'll see what happens. We'll see what happens. I mean, you convinced me the last time we talked about it. So we'll see. I mean, it's your story, man. You go with whatever the hell you want. Yeah. um We don't care.
00:01:07
Speaker
Tom just said that. ah But with Mr. Rico... Did I say Uncle Rico? No, I said Mr. Rico. You said it right. um I would have gave you shit if you said that. So what's the latest with
Promotional Strategies for Independent Films
00:01:18
Speaker
it? What's going on? i think I think just the main thing is trying to shoot that promotional trailer. Yeah.
00:01:25
Speaker
But I think... Another one. Well, so fill in a little bit because we did a teaser trailer? The teaser, yeah. And now you also want to shoot a promotional? What's the deal with the teaser, the promotional? What's all that about?
00:01:40
Speaker
ah i ah Well, the way I looked at it, the teaser is just more of like a proof of concept. I have it it like uploaded on the funding campaign, um but the promotional trailer, I think, is what we would use once the funding campaign's launched to actually reel people in for yeah donations.
00:02:02
Speaker
and Okay. Yeah, because you want to have some content, right? So that people know that you are kind of have an idea what they're getting into. Yeah, exactly. And like try to make it as close to the real thing as possible. So they're like, okay, like if I am donating, I'm donating to this.
00:02:19
Speaker
This is something that actually is is going to be something cool. Or you know we're committed to it. Yeah. so And got the script for that.
00:02:30
Speaker
Yeah. yeah you you just finished Tom just finished the script. um I'm trying to get together the the props for it, at least when it comes to his cassette player and his gun.
00:02:43
Speaker
And then trying to find the actual Rico but you know beforehand. So you want to do this promotional thing to get funding. Yes.
00:02:55
Speaker
So then what's the focus? Is it To get the promotion going so you can get the funding or is it to find Rico? It's kind of like a combination of like the two. like yeah we'll We'll find Rico and then i maybe it might be like a good exercise for our actual Rico. So he's like, okay, this is it. This is it you know this who I'm going to be.
00:03:18
Speaker
And then and hopes of, yeah, like we make it good enough to where we maybe we get a shitload of funding and you know we could actually go full swing on the production. Yeah.
00:03:29
Speaker
Well, you know, one of our good friends, um Stephen Aripes, he did GoFundMe. Because you were talking about ones where like whatever money you get, you keep, right? Yeah, Indiegogo. Indiegogo. Okay, so he did GoFundMe then, right?
00:03:46
Speaker
I think so. there's um There's like a million of them. yeah Yeah. He did one of the more popular ones, but he didn't hit his his mark because he wanted, what, $200,000? Yeah. And he got $2,000. yeah and he got two thousand Yeah.
00:03:59
Speaker
So he didn't hit his mark. And I guess all that money just goes back to everyone, right? Yeah, it just is refunded. yeah Yeah, because I gave him a larger amount than I intended to, you know. So it would look more impressive because i was getting the money back.
00:04:11
Speaker
But... um Shit, is this edible already hitting me? The liquid hits fast. Yeah, it does. So you're doing the India Go-Go. Yeah, our buddy did that. And I think one of the issues he ran into...
00:04:29
Speaker
um Well, I don't really know. I know you've researched it a lot. ah Maybe there wasn't enough promotional material. Well, I think we're going to have him on at the end of the month. And we can ask him about that. And we're going to be talking about the funding campaign. like oh that's cool. Stuff like that. Kind of get ah try to get an idea of...
00:04:49
Speaker
Because I know it's it's it's just quite frankly the only avenue that you really have as a… Hey, maybe you can come on that episode if you want. No budget. I think you'd get along with him and you can ask him about that.
00:05:00
Speaker
Stephen? No budget. like right like Unless you're like just going to save for a while or just really skirt that that budget. Yeah. I don't know how else you can really afford to do a project of any size where you actually want to do um anything that has any expense.
00:05:19
Speaker
I mean, for Dickhead, right? We didn't pay anybody nothing. yeah well but And even then, it cost a fucking fortune. Yeah, it's going to be around $100,000. But for you specifically, Alex, I think one way to generate interested people and actually get some money, which I've noticed because...
00:05:36
Speaker
You know, once you... Facebook just goes to an algorithm. So, like, with Steven's GoFundMe, I kind of started getting more of them. And there was one I think I sent to you, Tom.
00:05:48
Speaker
It was for Resident Evil. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. And it was, like, the original actors in this video game, Resident Evil, for the PlayStation. And they're kind of...
00:06:00
Speaker
doing another short film or maybe full film, but with the original cast of actors because back in the day, the video games had um live action and they had actual actors. It's so bad. But there's a charm to how bad they are. Yes, there is.
00:06:13
Speaker
So they got the actors back and they're using that to... using them in their film, and they hit their benchmark ah like right away. Oh, wow. That's brand recognition, though. Well, that's what going think part of the thing you might need to do really, for Mr. Rico is And people talk about this a lot for small independent films is find someone with a name.
00:06:38
Speaker
Yeah, if you could get anyone. If we could find like if we could get ah but's as ah treho Danny Trejo, right? like if he could just like Eric Roberts, right? he he does He's an actor for hire.
00:06:50
Speaker
But, I mean, you said Guzman. I don't know, man. I would be like, hey, Mr. Agent. I haven't seen Guzman in a while. Maybe… ah He's a little too old though now, right?
00:07:01
Speaker
to be He can be Rico now. Yeah, no, he he can't. No, well, to be to have somebody like that actually be our main and you know character, our main actor, like ah that would be way too expensive.
00:07:13
Speaker
and I would feel like. You gotta kind of have to. well evil us on You just try. i mean if they like it. He's got money. I mean to me I was thinking. Tell me he could be an executive producer. I was going to say. I think kind of the way you do it. Is you rope them in. Not rope them in. But you get them in on the project. As a producer like Steven said. And then they kind of pay their own salary. Because of SAG.
00:07:36
Speaker
They have a minimum. And even if they work for scale. That's like we can't afford scale. That's a good point. But I think you can do non – like SAG offered a new thing for – because you can't use a SAG actor unless you pay SAG fees.
00:07:52
Speaker
yeah But SAG did a new thing for low-budget films where you submit to them and you can use your other actors and then you pay like a really low amount. You don't have to pay the normal fee. I don't know. I mean, I would try Guzman. I mean, that's your dream. Like, fuck it. wonder if... I mean, just... Yeah. I don't know how you do it. What else is doing? When is he ever a lead?
00:08:11
Speaker
But... We shouldn't be talking to him about it like that, you know? like... No, yeah. I mean, he's amazing, dude. Mr. Guzman, you know, when you listen to this episode... He's an amazing dude. ah But also... ah but you know Maybe for your villain, you could try to find someone with one thing a name. Alex, if we could get if we could get a name, would it matter?
00:08:34
Speaker
Would you change essentially the idea of like his identity just be just to have that name recognition? um Or is it like you're dead set? Because that's one of the things in the notes I was like...
00:08:45
Speaker
Rico is so specific of a character. like In his description, right it's like for late 40s, 50s, Colombian man. right and it's like kind of more heavyset. I always imagine Ron Jeremy.
00:09:01
Speaker
As Rico. Oh, yeah. but I can kind of that. picture, yeah, yeah like exactly. Luis Guzman is Rico in a lot of ways. so But like if you know Stephen joked with Eric Roberts, we i don't I wouldn't ever want to work with Eric Roberts. like but Maybe. ah but I mean, I would for a day. I really fucking...
00:09:17
Speaker
But like would you be would you want to do... I'd be willing that you sacrifice like some of that ah character of Rico if we can get somebody who like is just going to execute for sure. um and Well, it's more just a name. or Yeah, it's just a name. I mean, I know somebody who who actually goes to... ah Her mom goes to family reunions and somehow she is somewhat related to Danny Trejo and he's there.
00:09:48
Speaker
Her mom has seen her. yeah You remember Yeah. Oh, I know Danny's... so but He's pretty up there in age, right? Yeah, so but I think there is a thing that ah he specifically mentions to the whole family that he doesn't want anybody to talk to him about business.
00:10:07
Speaker
Yeah, of course not. So that's that's the thing that's like, well, that could be that that could get messy. And I'm sure she doesn't want to do it anyway. so But yeah i mean back to Steven's point. But I'm thinking maybe for the villain.
00:10:21
Speaker
Right. You could get a name. Because I mean, I don't think you care about the villain per se as much. as like yeah I think Wego has a very distinct… I like that idea more. It's like getting the villain.
00:10:34
Speaker
Or even ah the mob boss. Yeah. yeah Well, that's who I meant by the villain. Because also, that's a much shorter and so shoot day. That's a one day. Yeah. You could just be like, hey man, give you… Now, it would probably cost thousands.
00:10:46
Speaker
Yeah. But be like, hey man, I'll give you… It would cost thousands, but we could make thousands and that's because of the name. I think one of the things that like Stephen Arapes was kind of going off of was that he had a couple like pretty so like pretty large following like Instagram like comedians that were going to be in his film.
00:11:09
Speaker
yeah And I think he was kind of hoping that that would have generated enough buzz to actually like... That's why I think he went for the two hundred k Because I don't think… I mean… i don't i think $5,000 is an unrealistic goal if you don't have anybody.
00:11:23
Speaker
Wow. for For a funding campaign? Yeah. Wow. i i I mean you make a good point.
Crowdfunding and Campaign Challenges
00:11:29
Speaker
You make it good point. mean he actually had these like followings and he barely scraped $2,000. Damn.
00:11:35
Speaker
yeah I mean I think he may have got like $2,500. And then how much of it was like from people that he knows. Like Tom and I both yeah um contributed some money… I mean, that's why I think you need to have a name. Because I notice a name or a brand. The ones that succeed tend to have some sort of extra backing. It's not just, hey, look at this amazing project. It's like, hey, look at this amazing project with something you recognize. Yeah.
00:12:03
Speaker
Well, Tom makes a good point about brand, too. Because I have, ah for the other project, like that if you guys remember the slaughter, Yeah. I tend to forget.
00:12:14
Speaker
You know, there is one guy who has his like Grim Stitch factory. It's like ah he makes Scarecrow Mask and he will feature the shorts and the horror films that have used his stuff on his website.
00:12:27
Speaker
So I feel like that wouldn't be a bad idea, too, is use some kind of brand and then maybe they could feature us, you know, you know. The idea, you just got to get that. and that's for anything That's just the unfortunate thing. And that's one of the reasons why we do the podcast too. is to kind of like um We don't have any recognition. and we don't have nothing.
00:12:45
Speaker
But the the idea behind it is that the the thing that I wanted to mention is like maybe not even necessarily for the casting of Rico, but just finding... Like Steven said, like finding a name or even just like finding, um I hate to say the word, but influencer or something like like that. Because that you have to have reach and you have to have people that want to support that.
00:13:05
Speaker
Yeah. Like I remember, I think, I don't know if I sent it to you, but Joe Bob, like is he was doing like a five second cameo in the short film. ah And that film got huge funding because he they got to put his name as the ah one of the cast members. He was also an anthology film, right? Yeah. Where dies at the very end?
00:13:23
Speaker
Yeah. And that seemed like it had good funding. But I mean, that's just what I've noticed. And and and he just has a following. like he You just have his name attached and you just make money. Yeah. And that's what I've noticed in those GoFundMes is they have that. But like Indiegogo, if you get any amount of money… like You get to keep it.
00:13:40
Speaker
Yeah. So then let's say you don't hit the mark that you want. Are you still making the film anyways? Or is it like I didn't hit that amount, so it's done? No, still making the film anyways, for sure. Which is why... And will you be fronting that money? Or is it like, okay, we didn't hit the mark, guys. ah We're cutting this and this scene out because we can't afford that. Or you're going to be like, look, I'm going into debt.
00:14:04
Speaker
Yeah, ah pretty pretty much. like um My plan, as we go, like my plan is to invest in some of the props, whatever I can on my own. And then hopefully, once we get the funding, it'll be even easier you know The nice thing about Ricoh is it'll be relatively inexpensive ah to do.
00:14:25
Speaker
yeah um I mean, by design as well. ah But at the same time, I think it's really important to to recognize that something that we've been seeing is post can get fucking expensive. yeah And I know for a short film, where you're probably talking like a tenth of the of the kind of hassle that we're going through. And plus, we kind of have a better idea now as well of stuff.
00:14:45
Speaker
yeah um But like if you want to get anything done at a good level, a presentable professional level, it's going to cost you some money to get get that done. um And the nice thing is like we kind of have... like We know summer now, right? like Summer is pretty inexpensive for doing a cut like if you wanted to color or do something like that.
00:15:04
Speaker
um And we kind of know that now. like That's one of the nice things about us getting through with this is future projects. Like... you know ah i don't know if Adam and Pat would be the right fit for Rico doing a score like that. like But you were we'd probably want to like find some actual you know an artist. post But if we could even... That could be another avenue as well.
00:15:25
Speaker
is If you you know just find an artist, a music artist, that does the kind of... Well, for Rico, I think I would go with... um free stuff.
00:15:36
Speaker
Well, what I'm thinking... Hold on, hold on, let finish. So my time idea is like you find an up-and-coming, I don't know, like soul singer, like female artist that has you know some some following, and you get her attached to the movie. Oh, see.
00:15:52
Speaker
That could also be what... Drives people to help pay for the film. See this musician soundtrack featured in this Rico short. That's a really good idea. Yeah.
00:16:02
Speaker
Because it's like, that but I don't, shit, I don't know the scene. I don't know that kind of shit. Because you'd have to get them where it's like they are a legit talent. They have a following, but it's not enough to elevate them. Because for a jog at night,
00:16:19
Speaker
I only want one song. And it's from this artist named Christina Vane. And of course, the Jug at Night's, what, like eight years old now? And at the time, i could reach out to her on social media and contact her and probably get the rights for it for a few hundred dollars was my thought process.
00:16:36
Speaker
But I looked her up recently to see about getting in contact with her. And now she has an agent. oh There's no way to to actually get a hold of her directly. And when I was doing photography for bands, it was like, okay, anytime there's an agent involved and there's like a barrier to get access to them, it's like, yeah, that's really hard to to reach them.
00:16:57
Speaker
Also, that means... And that means more money. so So you'd have to find that sweet spot, but that could be a really good way to generate some And then you don't necessarily have because going the cast route with the name, like, i don't know, maybe through like, because it through some connections, like we know Kasusha, and we know some people. dude, there's actors for hire. They're just, it's on like, pay me now.
00:17:19
Speaker
Eric Roberts is on the front cover, front page there. pay the cameo and send him the script. Yeah. Probably you could look up any actor that does the um phone calls where they'll leave a message. Yeah, the cameo. Any actor willing to do that is like, I bet he'll be in my field.
00:17:36
Speaker
Yeah, that's what I was kind of thinking too. is like At least a cameo, a pretty solid like funny cameo. i think the mob boss would be the best. Because that would be that only the quickest way to yeah me get him in and out.
00:17:51
Speaker
Yeah, and it would be a substantial role, and then also would be, like Tom said, a day of shooting. so Yeah, it's yeah it would be ah would be financially smart as well. um Because it's just one location,
00:18:05
Speaker
Just a couple lines, right? and And plus if you could get the soul singer too. I mean... i I have a band... Find the new Nina Simone, right? good luck i do it I do have a band that said they were willing to do it and help us out.
00:18:21
Speaker
um They're not... too big. but Are they really good though? They're they're pretty good. and but It's like, do they have a following? they're like they They have a following, but they're more like a local band. See, and this is when it gets so gross, right? Because now it's like the marketability.
00:18:36
Speaker
yeah Are they marketable enough? i mean ah But that's part, it's the business, right? Like I said, do you want business you want to hit 5K? I don't even think you can hit 5K without something like that. yeah I don't even think you can hit a thousand.
00:18:48
Speaker
Also the oversaturation too, I imagine would have to be an issue. that There's so many projects. But like going like backtracking to what you're saying about ah like having the name, you know being like so having somebody who's recognized, right?
00:19:02
Speaker
And then being able to hit your your goal. But I've seen some people without having like a big name, but they just put a lot into their funding campaign, like a shit ton. You know what I mean? they go through You go through some of these funding campaigns and you can spend all day going through like the script, the storyboard, you know, the proof of concept, like they just literally have everything on there for you to go through. And I think sometimes that's what helps. I also know. Oh no, that definitely. I mean, you want to see a project that you think is the funding is going to go to something that's going to see the light of day. Right. Cause I've done some GoFundMes where i was like, whatever happened that thing, I, I put a hundred dollars on to get a free version of our, you know, a discounted version. I was like,
00:19:46
Speaker
I never saw that. yeah So you do want to see it come to light. I'm sure it crosses people's minds that like, you know, they're like, I don't want to donate to some, some asshole who's just going to like pocket the money. And yeah, essentially, you know, or also I'll say to this, are you going to put in that time?
00:20:03
Speaker
Yeah, of course. and things That's the hard part. I mean, be realistic. Are you going to put it that time? I am going to put it the time. It's just things have been a little difficult right now. Life has been bumpy, I'm sure, for everybody. but I mean, look at us, dude.
00:20:17
Speaker
Yeah. We shot Dickhead 10 years ago. or ten you We're literally 10 years in. Yeah. a good portion of that. I bring it up in our show notes later. But our lack of like focus and organization, really.
00:20:32
Speaker
you know Not knowing the bigger picture and the better execution. like We had ideas, we just didn't do them. yeah I think. Like, oh yeah, we got to do this and this. But we didn't actually yeah put in the time to do it.
00:20:46
Speaker
i I think I have a bad habit of complicating my life. Yes, you do. A lot more than I should. so So then when I reflect on that, I'm like, damn, like the only thing I want to do is just make films.
00:21:00
Speaker
But because of all the decisions I make, sometimes it that shit pulls me away from all the stuff I want to do with my projects. Yeah, I mean, really, it's time and discipline.
00:21:11
Speaker
So, I mean, if you think you can do that, but I think maybe the named person could help. I agree. for you to put into that My thing is, you can't rely on the shot in the dark And that's the problem.
00:21:25
Speaker
It's like your campaign could take off just because people connect with the the content, but you can't rely on that. ah Especially if you want to do something that's going to be $10,000 or something, you know maybe even more than that.
00:21:39
Speaker
Because holy shit, dude, there's no guarantee. Right, that's true. And then what happens, you're just left filling in the gap of that that budget. I mean, it ain't like it used to be when the Coen brothers and fucking Sam Raimi were going around begging dentists to fund their project.
00:21:57
Speaker
Because this is a short film. Isn't it the same thing now except bigger because you got Indiegogo GoFundMe? mean, those didn't exist back then. True, but... And they would have used them. I mean... But I feel like you're almost more guaranteed to have something happen if you're going directly to, like you said, a dentist or a doctor because you're face-to-face with them. true, too. But the problem is there's no guarantee of return of investment for these guys. A short film's not make money. You're not making money off short film. Rico not going to make money. Yeah, it's strictly a vanity thing.
00:22:28
Speaker
yeah But you've got to find those vain people who... I shouldn't say vain people, but you know, those people who just want to do it for the sake of, of doing it. Yeah. Who want to fund it for the sake of like, yeah, man, here we had someone do that for Dickhead.
00:22:43
Speaker
He wanted to be anonymous, but he gave us a hundred bucks. I think he gave us 200 bucks. 200 bucks of a hundred thousand. Yeah. But still, right? I mean, ah i mean still. you know He was like, yeah, here. Just have some money. I know they cost a lot. Good luck, kid. yeah And you know that was cool.
00:23:01
Speaker
Of course. no And that that does help. you know Regardless, that's still $200 less that you have to spend. We only need a thousand more of those. um Yeah, but still. The one good thing is I do feel i know some some people that will contribute a good amount.
00:23:19
Speaker
Maybe reach out to them first and see. yeah Because honestly maybe you don't even have to do the India Go. Honestly, I think it's it might be... If we could get away not doing a ah campaign, it's going to be better.
00:23:31
Speaker
Yeah. Why is that? Because I think the issue with doing a campaign is that it builds up this like expectation and...
00:23:41
Speaker
If you don't fucking realize it, like Alex said, you like to complicate your life. if So if we get but if if a bunch of people put in money on that, we got to fucking drop everything to get that shit done. I think that's a good thing.
00:23:52
Speaker
It's a good thing. It's a bad thing. but if you Because if you don't deliver, you're done. You're dead. That's true. You'll never get another funding career campaign. why we don't go on camera. We just leave him on camera. But you you see what ba you see what I'm saying, right?
00:24:06
Speaker
No, yeah, but I don't... Imagine if we had dickhead funding. But i think that's a much better I think that's a much better issue to have than a negative. I mean... It isn't, it isn't. It's just...
Reflections on Filmmaking Journey
00:24:18
Speaker
I've already you don't want to rest your career on Rico.
00:24:20
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, but you also don't want to just be planning a movie and not making it. No, fair. I understand that completely. So, and then that gives you the incentive. Oh, by the way, Alex, it's 108. Okay. I'll do 10 more minutes, will be fine.
00:24:33
Speaker
no No, let's cut No, let's wrap it. but Okay. But let's... ah Anyways, I mean... Sorry, we're going to go back and forth about this after you leave, Alex. We're just spitballing here thinking out loud.
00:24:47
Speaker
Exactly. Trying figure it out because we don't know. That's exactly the point. We're 10 years in. We're $100,000 poorer. And the other thing, too, is we don't know shit about these campaigns and what that does. Yeah.
00:24:58
Speaker
I've never actually seen one actually work. yeah Jared and Clark did one that didn't work. Well, I mean, I've seen them work. But not anyone who is attached to it. mean, like, personally. Because we have at least two friends that have done this.
00:25:10
Speaker
yeah It didn't work out for. um That's one thing I do like about Indiegogo is it'll have a section where you can check out the successful campaigns. And then you can kind of, like, piggyback off of them and and see what they did right. you know I mean, but you know its it doesn't hurt.
00:25:29
Speaker
To me, it doesn't hurt to try. It's just another avenue to help the project. right Worst case scenario, you don't hit hit your goal, but you hit some kind of progress. And then I do actually like the the structure part of it because the more effort you put into making your campaign like worth looking into, you are building almost like a good structure for your project anyway.
00:25:53
Speaker
So once's true once you have everything in detail like laid out, you're like, oh shit, like okay now I'm looking at my project and it looks like it's a thing, like it's going to happen.
00:26:05
Speaker
That's an interesting way to utilize it too, right? Kind of bring people It's essentially like a pre-production as well. Yeah, well that's what saying, bring people along kind of like a journal. Like, hey, this is where we're at today. And then they can kind of follow along. That would buy you some more time. Exactly.
00:26:21
Speaker
Yeah. Not too much time, though, like Tom said. So, Alex, do you have any final words before we yeah we get you off to work? The only thing have to say is like for the audience is look out for Mr. Rico when we come out with promotional trailer.
00:26:36
Speaker
Hopefully soon. All right. And Alex, before you go, quick question, one word answer. 28 years later, are you going to see it? No.
00:26:46
Speaker
and But, okay. So we're back.
00:26:51
Speaker
um don't think I already did the introduction even. Yeah, we just jumped right in. So what is this episode even about? So welcome everyone to Twin Shadows podcast. I think we could do the delayed intro. That's kind of cool in a sense. You listen to our, maybe because people only listen to like the first 20 minutes anyway. So they' let's get to the part where it's just me and you. it's Some actual me.
00:27:12
Speaker
They're like, wow, we're gone. Everyone's already not listened. But this is Twin Shadows Podcast, podcast about film, filmmaking, and filmmakers brought to you as always by the two most sexiest people that have ever lived, Tom and Steve. This episode is called From Thoughts to Reality or How We Learned to Stop Worrying About the Project and Get It Off the Ground.
00:27:32
Speaker
Well, this would have been a nice episode for Alex. This whole episode was written ah because he was going, i thought he was going to be doing the whole its show. So. He immediately left.
00:27:46
Speaker
Yeah. that's I mean, to be fair, we probably should have set up. We could have got it a little more time in. We should have set up while we were listening to the music. Set up took a lot. But yeah, we were um we've been working. on We're trying to finalize music.
00:28:01
Speaker
We're very close. I think we're like one track away from being done with that. And then we got to do You mean one pass? No, ah for the the music selection. Oh, okay. I thought you met i thought you were talking about music in its entirety. No, score. Score will be like set um after we pick this you think there's still a lot more to go on with the mixing then?
00:28:24
Speaker
No. No? So yeah, we're almost done with the whole thing, right? Yeah, but for sure, once we have this last song, score is set, done, locked. Yeah, I think so. Yeah. As long as we have the rights for the Artlist.io thing, which I said, if anyone out there is a lawyer, entertainment lawyer, who would like to help us for you know ah maybe a Jack in the Box sandwich, ah give us ah a little ah DM or a message and we would love some help on Artlist.io or just copyright laws for that site. I guess we could look into it a little bit ourselves.
00:28:59
Speaker
yeah But the main thing is, yeah, we are one song away ah from essentially being locked on score. And then we are going through a Foley pass right now.
00:29:12
Speaker
and once And that's starting to sound a lot better. um Once that's done... We're going to hit the mix, and then audio is done in summers. She's on vacation right now, or a holiday, as they say. She's away.
00:29:26
Speaker
And once she comes back, she will be finishing Color, and she'll probably be doing that pretty quick. Yeah, and then ah after that, it's off to VFX, and then... Yeah, finish VFX, and... And then very late, at the worst possible lateness, move into the next phase, which is going to be...
00:29:46
Speaker
Finding an audience, getting money. But really getting it seen, right? Which we have no idea. i mean, we just assumed the festival market. And then the more you hear about the festival circuit. A cool thing before we get into that, if I can pause you for a second, um is we're going to probably shoot a little title sequence.
00:30:08
Speaker
yeah um So it would be like the last real thing that we're going to shoot for Dickhead because we recorded ah the cop audio um this past weekend using Stephen's cousin David.
00:30:19
Speaker
And he he gave us some pretty like realistic, like kind of hardcore shit, um which was pretty cool. so We're going listen to the takes and get those slotted in, and that would be one of the also final things that we have to do to complete the audio. The audio is done aside from some trouble areas that um we need to...
00:30:42
Speaker
Figure out. But we'll probably just do that on our own, I think, a little bit. Yeah, we yeah I mean, we don't want to keep joe we don't want to drag drag this out with Adam and Pat and John. like They've been getting so busy.
00:30:53
Speaker
and it's i think we we're over a year in now with them. Yeah, and I'm sure this has gone a lot longer than they wanted. So, as as is with Dighead, everything just takes forever. Yeah.
00:31:05
Speaker
But we're finally nearing that end, and I think... By the end of it, they'll know their work was was stellar. and Yeah, and it has been.
00:31:16
Speaker
There's some pride in that. You know, I'll be like, yeah, I did ah did a great job. Here, check it out. Look at my reel. we'll be like, it's the greatest thing we've ever done.
00:31:27
Speaker
But um but to getting back into the festivals and um and getting into essentially what would hopefully be Dickhead being sold yeah for anything north of $100,000 would be fantastic.
00:31:43
Speaker
Honestly, my biggest hope now where we're at is it just gets eyes. I mean, of course, I would be... you know i would I would be sad if we didn't you know get a go a little further, but if we just have an audience at all, like I said, ah i just I know a lot of people are like, festivals don't matter that much anymore.
Film Festival Opportunities and Legendary Influence
00:32:03
Speaker
That's like a big thing that people are talking about, how it's not the avenue that it was. you There aren't...
00:32:09
Speaker
the Kevin Smiths and the Quentin Tarantinos because that market is so saturated with independent films. And if this is a video podcast, I'm using air quotes ah because i think we've, did we have an episode about this?
00:32:24
Speaker
I can't remember if we've talked about this before, um but ah about festivals, many, no, no, no. um About how independent film is really kind of a misnomer. yeah Nowadays, because right Anna, i'm not Annalie.
00:32:39
Speaker
That was like one of our first podcasts. What was the... Anora. Anora's an indie film. But it would cost like $60 million or or something. yeah And it's like, yeah, that's small budget. Or maybe a $5 million. I don't know.
00:32:54
Speaker
Whatever it was, it had an M at the end. Yeah, there was no millions. There was a million after that M. And it's like, they, you know, those- With known actors. i Yeah. Those aren't the indies.
00:33:05
Speaker
That's not really indie. Like, there's like, or at least we have to make a new name for what we do, I guess. Because it's not- and Well, we talked about, because we're like a micro shoestring budget.
00:33:16
Speaker
Mm-hmm. yeah And then anything lower than us is just free. But even then, what I guess what i kind of mean by that too is like all of our actors are you know kind of fresh faces.
00:33:28
Speaker
yeah You've seen them in something, right? Like in an episode of you know this or a Hallmark movie or Lying Girl. ah You know, for the five seconds of Lying Girl that you know or whatever. that They just cameo. like ah Marianne also did a cameo in...
00:33:47
Speaker
a Steven Soderbergh movie or something. Oh, cool. Yeah, she was in it for like ah like a second. She was like the but person that worked at the hotel. Yeah. Or something like that. I'm misremembering little high. It might not even be Steven Soderbergh, but it had like named actresses and stuff in it, like somewhat of a film.
00:34:06
Speaker
Yeah. But yeah, we're jumping all over the place. Sorry. um But festivals, right? Like... Really, i would, it would just be, i know we've talked about like, we couldn't watch it with an audience that big, right? Like a studio, not studio, a theater full of people.
00:34:27
Speaker
um i don't, I mean, maybe I could watch it from like the the door or whatever. Just listen. that I couldn't watch it like and then look at the people. i would Or maybe I can. I don't know. We'll just have to like drop some mushrooms or something. I mean, it's just for fun.
00:34:45
Speaker
Right? Because it'll just be like if we premiere it and then no one's ever going to accept us. Yeah, I mean, I still have some faith in the ah festival market because I have no idea or the circuit.
00:34:59
Speaker
But I imagine something can come of it still. and We're dreamers. You've got to dreamer to be a filmmaker. and And I imagine that's probably the best avenue to really make something of the film. Because you know there's other routes that people have done that have been successful like i here on Reddit. Like different ways they market it and just strictly keeping it for themselves and doing like local things and yeah making tons of money back.
00:35:29
Speaker
um And there's routes to that or, you know, people who build an audience like on YouTube or something and then they market to them. or like Louis C.K., you know, he was one of the first to go onto internet and market for himself.
00:35:44
Speaker
Yeah. um Yeah, that'd probably be like the best avenue and something we should really look into. But yeah, just having that, yeah, getting faith in the festival circuit that that's the best avenue to try right now, at least. Because I think we do try Other avenues? Yeah, of course. i I mean, I think we should try to sell the rights or go a film market where we can sell the film out as much as we can.
00:36:15
Speaker
But the idea is we have no other way of generating a name other than getting a couple like award wins at a festival or... At any mid-tier festival that we are, if we you know somehow squeak into ah an actual high-tier festival, that's going to be the only way that we can like really kind of be like, hey, this was the movie that you know premiered at Sundance. We're not going to get it premiered at Sundance, but that alone can get you foreign market sales, and that can lead you there. We need the highest accolade possible to proceed the work so that there can be some…
00:36:52
Speaker
extra motivation. Right. I mean, we just can't just we just can't be walking into filmmarketseller.com and be like, here's dickhead. Go sell it. Give me money, money, money.
00:37:04
Speaker
That's not going to work, right? It needs to it needs to and needs to live in the world. ah yeah And that's the only real avenue that we have. and And the other thing, too, is TK, it's not this investment in a sense of trying to get a financial return.
00:37:25
Speaker
It was an investment into getting our names... out there. It was that, hey, someone could watch it. They might not want to buy it, but they're like, hey, you guys could make a movie for me. you could Would you want to come and, you know, I'll produce Dickhead 2.
00:37:41
Speaker
The dickening. um I mean, essentially, Dickhead is the hope of leading to the next project. Yeah. Dickhead is the... is the The dream of Dickhead is that we do this for forever.
00:37:55
Speaker
We stop. We don't do our jobs anymore. Our day jobs. And that we are just filmmakers. That's crazy. I'm cool to be like... ah Like, that would be a crazy thing.
00:38:11
Speaker
I mean... And then, right? And with that, the podcast grows and then that becomes a thing. Oh, then we lose all the money. and People, they're like, wait a minute. This is what the directors of Dickhead are podcasting about? And then people listen to like three episodes and it's like...
00:38:29
Speaker
ah We're cutting that contract. You can make ah this movie with the Bruce Willis AI. I'll be like, all right. Yeah. gas Gas Station Fighter 2. I'm Who's the villain?
00:38:47
Speaker
Eric Roberts. All right. Yep. You got him for 18 minutes.
00:38:55
Speaker
He doesn't do more than one take.
00:39:00
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, that's that's crazy. i don't know, man. i That's the dream, right? that's And that's what we're shooting. that's the scott That's the stars that we're shooting for. I think that has to be the practicality behind it.
00:39:12
Speaker
Because honestly, it's just for the sake of, hey, let's just make a movie and do the best we can. yeah And it's like, well, if we do the best we can, maybe it's... I don't know. It opens doors.
00:39:24
Speaker
i think I saw a post um recently on Reddit that said, why are so many filmmakers delusional? And the number one top comment is, you have to be delusional to want to be a filmmaker. Yeah.
00:39:35
Speaker
ah And yeah, there's ah absolutely some delusion when it comes to dickhead. I mean, a part of that is the 10-year investment and the time that we've spent to actually make it as best as we possibly can.
00:39:46
Speaker
We saw that there was potential for the film from the very first cut. yeah It's always been rough. There's always been rough spots, but we've sharpened those rough spots into sharp edges.
00:39:57
Speaker
And the idea is that hopefully now we have presented something that is of the best quality that we can make it. And it just is this, you know, ah what's the word I want to say? Like,
00:40:13
Speaker
this presentation of what we can do, what we can accomplish. Because, I mean, from a production perspective, you and I have just been driving this the whole time, and If it's anything, it's because of... I mean, we're so crazy. like well We've just been listening to fucking this music constantly. How many hundreds of songs did you listen to? i know I listened to them.
00:40:35
Speaker
And it's like, they already had music in place that wasn't that bad. it i mean, at the end of the day, if we never could change it, it was like, okay, fine. yeah um But now having this avenue to change it, it's like, do we go...
00:40:51
Speaker
We hard, man. ah yeah That's the only weirdly way I can present it. is i mean you know Well, we took the time. I mean, literally.
00:41:01
Speaker
Ten years. What should we talk about more? Because I wrote about that more.
00:41:08
Speaker
So that's that's a good ah episode you wrote up, buddy. Yeah. But, damn it, forgot what I was going to say. Because I do want to talk about that more It's interesting that I kind of naturally went to that.
00:41:26
Speaker
because like yeah well Because you talked about time. Yeah. That's my response to that. I guess we'll wait. um ah Did we want to just jump into the news then, I guess? I mean, holy shit, what a segue.
00:41:41
Speaker
Yeah, everyone is dying. Yeah, ah it's been a very kind of strange week. um And I think someone else just died too. Really? That was somewhat famous, like yesterday.
00:41:53
Speaker
Yeah, man, people have been dying like crazy. i have 1%. People die every day, I guess. But, I guess. Yeah. ah a lot of celebrities.
00:42:05
Speaker
A lot of people grew up with. I know Alex was definitely sad for Ozzy. You know, ah lot of people are sad ah about like Ozzy dying, but Chuck Mangione died.
00:42:20
Speaker
Everyone's fucking dead, dude. I think the the thing of that I was thinking about with Ozzy was like, man, and you know, you can't really be sad that Ozzy died. He's fucking immortal, man.
00:42:32
Speaker
he wouldn't be A hundred years from now, as long as we're not like you know just half cockroach people, people will know who Ozzy is. People will be listening to Crazy Train, Iron Man.
00:42:45
Speaker
His music will be played forever. right David Bowie is immortal. yeah like these people Yeah, his body's dead, but these guys don't die. right the None of the Beatles are dead. That's true. Yeah.
00:42:56
Speaker
like You can hear them every day. They still have ah the ah strong impact. I mean, you might hate the Beatles, but you can't deny that the their fucking impact. I mean, it's it's measurable. and Such is the true beauty of art, right?
00:43:14
Speaker
It gets you to that. And that's that's one of the... i think Babylon has a ah quote about that, right? Right before, spoilers, ah Brad Pitt kills himself.
00:43:26
Speaker
Yeah. He's arguing about the immortality of being on the screen. Yeah. And, you know, it's sad when we lose someone like, you know, ah well, Malcolm Jamal Warner, that was wild. Like, he drowned on vacation. That's fucking, I think his kids were there too. Yeah, too, like 56. Something like that in his 50s.
00:43:46
Speaker
Like, fuck.
00:43:50
Speaker
Everyone's going before Cosme. I know. I was just thinking like what popped in my head was like, fuck dude. The people we aren't losing. and like Why can't Trump die? you know Still, you know you know it's always sad when someone dies, when someone passes.
00:44:08
Speaker
Especially when they've had an impact on people. They're feeling that loss. Rest in peace, guys. and press and i't know Let me ask you about Hulk Hogan. Yeah.
00:44:20
Speaker
I mean, I grew up to Hulk Hogan. He's an American hero. But then, you know. I know. I saw a lot of people saying rest in piss, Hulk Hogan. I'm like. Yeah, well, because he got caught for saying the N word with the hard R. Yeah.
00:44:33
Speaker
I mean, of course he's a. I mean. But it was like, but he was always the American hero. Guess what? That's America. Racist. ah Which was kind of funny. Yeah. I mean, yeah, it's like, damn, rest in piss. That's kind of harsh, man.
00:44:49
Speaker
I understand. i mean, especially when it's such a divided world that we live in. I mean, we've gotten past the point where it's like, hey, if you're not recognizing this shit, like what's going on? ah Yeah, that's very true. It used to just be like, well, you know let people vote how they vote. like But now it's like, man, you might actually be like,
00:45:14
Speaker
more than More than ever, your actions might actually literally be leading to ah direct harm and death. And you know people like Hulk doing that kind of shit. I mean, that's of course, not saying the N-word, but you know like being very pro-Trump and and that kind of shit. Yeah, I didn't know that.
00:45:35
Speaker
But yeah. Yeah. So you know those guys are... ah Yeah, it's scary. It's scary world we live in sometimes. Yeah, it is. Just to wonder what goes through their mind. And Hulk Hogan, even at, I think he was 76.
00:45:52
Speaker
He still beat my ass, man. No problem. He's the Hulkster. but that's such that was That's such a weird one. Because, I mean, I grew up to Hulk Hogan. So he was like a big character for...
00:46:05
Speaker
i I mean, just so much in pop culture. And then, you know, you watch WWE, like, yeah, the Hulkster. yeah You know, it's crazy. You know, his rival was Andre the Giant. I mean, how could you not, you know, like... And someone put a quote where Andre was like, I don't want to hurt anyone except for Hulk Hogan. I want to bitch slap him. It was like, damn.
00:46:25
Speaker
Yeah. And, you know, it's... The person from the persona, man. That's a weird thing. It is. But also, it's like, Dude, most people are shitty.
00:46:37
Speaker
We've seen that now. Yeah, I mean... I think that's my thing. and It's also... where We're all shitty to some degree, right? Yeah, it's... Yeah, that its and it's like... um I would rather show mercy than then hate.
00:46:51
Speaker
um Yeah. Because i think that's what's really lacking is that no one, and to a degree, yes, like you should be fucking angry and vengeance and revenge sounds like a good idea. There's a rightfulness to it, yeah. But at the same time, it you know what what is the ah you don't stare into the abyss because the abyss looks into you. you Shit, don't become the fucking thing you're trying to destroy.
00:47:17
Speaker
yeah um I mean if Would you rather win through that or… for the racists would it be like don't become a Mexican? Is that what they're trying to… I'm trying to say like for the people that are racist, it's like, hey, try to, you know, talk and communicate, not just, I mean, we're not going to shove these people in ovens.
00:47:39
Speaker
and I mean, at and at the same time you say, well, they're going to take your life. It's like, but would you rather win and become the Nazi or would you rather lose and, and you know, like, no, you were, you know, not they not doing they're doing it right.
00:47:53
Speaker
I mean, that there're because ah if that's where it kind boils down to, man, it's like, shit. That's scary. That's very scary. I'm just saying, you know, like if we, ah I mean, that's not what I want to happen. I don't want, you know, and to die, but what are talking about again?
00:48:10
Speaker
Yeah. I'm just saying, open your heart, man. mean, it is very... ah It's difficult times, you know? like yeah like Don't say rest and piss Hulk Hogan. like Yeah, he's and he's a piece of shit, but you know what?
00:48:25
Speaker
As evil as he is, you know how much joy he brought to the world? Especially the racists. I mean, the racists, their kids, and their kid cousins, brothers and sister, or whatever, inbred.
00:48:39
Speaker
But, fuck. Fuck. you know he Like he said, yeah yeah he's fucking Hulk Hogan, man. How could you not like ah three ninjas, three high noon or high mountain?
00:48:52
Speaker
Yeah, it's just it's just weird. it's It's interesting how divisive he became. like yeah It's like a full fall from grace. Right. Because he was that good guy. Yeah. See, it's because WCW, man. He turned heel.
00:49:06
Speaker
And he turned heel for real. and And then he just went way too far. New World Order. Well, speaking of new world orders, there's a New Yorker article. Yeah, this is kind of a... You know, every time I read the New Yorker, I just realized how uneducated I am. too. I was like, oh my god, dude. There's so many words here. I'm like, what what is this sentence? I don't... I probably get the gist of it.
00:49:31
Speaker
I feel I took away the brief ah brief summary. that was like, shit was getting deep. i was like and But also, it's like, fucking A. You said some snooty shit. You know, like, holy shit. Yeah, but The New Yorker is The New Yorker.
00:49:45
Speaker
and And we made a movie called Dickhead. I know, but goddamn, we did away with the pretension by calling it Dickhead. That's true. Can't accuse us of that, I hope.
The Role of Critics in Film Appreciation
00:49:55
Speaker
Holy shit, dude.
00:49:56
Speaker
So, The New Yorker, I like The New Yorker. And we've done a previous, ah had a previous podcast where we just discussed The New Yorker article.
00:50:08
Speaker
I think they always have very good articles. you know like They're definitely very passionate. yeah Yes, i was especially this one. ah But also, i think they always leave room for conversation and debate.
00:50:22
Speaker
you know It's like, I don't know about that one. But they present interesting cases. and This is ah In Defense of the Traditional Review by Richard Brody.
00:50:34
Speaker
So I don't know how deep you want to get into this. but why don't you give You want me to give a brief summary of article or do you want to do it? Do you have it on the notes? I don't have it on the notes. so want me to do You do it.
00:50:45
Speaker
so essentially fuck Do you know who it was? Richard Brody? Richard Brody. okay Richard Brody wrote this article but its like ah in defense of the traditional review.
00:50:56
Speaker
essentially breaks down The fact that um I think it was the Times, ah they changed ah four positions or removed four positions. I'm not exactly sure.
00:51:09
Speaker
was a little too, I wasn't and didn't understand the whole journalism lingo there. Four people that were reviewers of the arts were removed or replaced or they're like being less pronounced.
00:51:23
Speaker
This is where I should probably ask Stephen what actually happened there. um Or my phone's dead or I would look it up. But I should have just printed the article, in fact. So these people were removed. These four, like, there was, like, a music reviewer or something like that. And...
00:51:40
Speaker
um The article goes into kind of like the legacy of critics, the reason you would want to have professional critics versus essentially just like everyone having this opinion that they spew on the internet, the impact of of being a critic, how ah critics say can completely change or redefine the way you watch a film because of their life experiences.
00:52:05
Speaker
and
00:52:08
Speaker
That's kind of what the article went into. It's like it's important to have a professional critic that really understands because they have the context. the the thing was I think the example that was given in the article was Beethoven's Fifth Symphony.
00:52:25
Speaker
It's like you can enjoy and respect Beethoven's Fin Symphony, but if you actually know a lot about Beethoven, you can add some context that people might not know, which could give them a different appreciation of said content.
00:52:39
Speaker
And um they were pretty much equating that that's kind of the role of a professional critic is they have this knowledge, this context, and they...
00:52:53
Speaker
ah put themselves into ah position where they are writing with like this knowledge and also adding their their the their perspective into it. I think they in the article it says one of the important...
00:53:11
Speaker
one of the important aspects or one of the ah humorous things was when someone would read a review and they didn't know if the critic liked it or hated it. yeah um But yeah, so it you know the article is in defense of actually, like the Siskel and Eberts, the ah Pauline Kales, they have an importance.
00:53:33
Speaker
yeah And that... The diminishing of this is alarming because of the ever presence of you know media article or social media essentially be taking the role of critics.
00:53:47
Speaker
Things like IMDb. It's not brought up in the article, but this is what I was thinking. like Things like IMDb. that That's what's swaying people now. it's like raw How many times is it like... Tomatoes score. It's like, oh shit, this thing got a 90 on Rotten Tomatoes. I'll check it out.
00:54:03
Speaker
um It's not me list reading like a 45-page breakdown of Alien by Pauline Kael, which you know she talks which we read on our segments from on the Alien episode if you want to go back and listen to that was a pretty fun little episode we did where we were folk fake somehow we got very speaking of Hulk Hogan we got very white right wing and and like Rush Limbaugh on that episode for some reason we did it so weird huh yeah yeah um but that was a really fun we should do something like that again that was fun
00:54:41
Speaker
um maybe we could do something we gotta think of a cool thing to do for Annie Hall what can we do for Annie Hall oh yeah we gotta get on that hey cheers cheers brother this was your birthday gift oh that had been meaning to get you forever oh god I thought they had different flavors but I think ones with sugar ones without yeah but it's Mountain Dew hard Mountain Dew alcoholic Mountain Dew yeah it's not bad I could drink this. since That's what you're that's what that's ah your well it was your favorite growing up, right?
00:55:14
Speaker
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Especially the Code Red, man. Code Red. Oh, yeah. You like Code Red. That was a nerd. That dude's so gross. Do you ever drink that anymore?
00:55:26
Speaker
Yeah. I'll drink that every now and then. Are you like childhood? No. No? Oh. ah But yeah. um have you Do you read like any professional um critiques or articles?
00:55:38
Speaker
ah No. I was thinking about that myself. no like Sometimes I do. I mean because i and listen to NPR a lot. And for us, I don't know if it's normal, but they're always covering like movies and stuff like that.
00:55:52
Speaker
So they'll have their critics on there who work for other publications kind of give ah brief... ah critique Do they have like Mark Kermode on there or something? I have no idea who the fuck that is He's a ah famous film critic.
00:56:08
Speaker
um Look, I know Pauline Kale because I'm a little more educated. And I know Cisco and Ebert. Now Cisco and Ebert were all I do. Yeah. And then there was a living color.
00:56:20
Speaker
Remember? where Where does Red Letter Media fall into this? Are they on the the bad guy spectrum according to this article? Or they ah more on the professional side? thats No, I would say no because I don't think the article addressing them.
00:56:39
Speaker
Yeah. Because I think one of the things the article was addressing the fears of was ah corporations becoming more involved. In fact, um I wrote the quote he used from Pauline Kell about it.
00:56:54
Speaker
but but But basically, no real critical critiquing going on, you know, and and also the fear of it them becoming like shills.
00:57:05
Speaker
yeah um are very subversive. where well that's I hate everything. Yeah, that's so true, right? Because especially in the world we live in now, like I don't know where what happened when everything had to be like the best.
00:57:20
Speaker
yeah like What happened? Why we have to go say um it's like everything's a fucking 8 out of 10 now? Oh, yeah.
00:57:30
Speaker
You only gave that a 7? Oh, I'm not watching that. A seven's fucking great. yeah Are you kidding? i Have some perspective. It's better when there's only like... Shit, said like a lot. I'm sorry. the Everything is starting to culminate. It's like that you say a lot.
00:57:48
Speaker
Yeah, that's what I said. was just saying like a lot. Oh, thought you said shit. I said shit. No. Sorry. No, no, no. Sorry. I apologize. I will reduce my amount of likes that I was saying and get back onto what was saying about. never noticed.
00:58:05
Speaker
because you're as fucked up as I am. That's very true. What was I talking about? Now he made me laugh too hard. ah Red Letter Media. And then Chills and the subversive people. Oh, right, right, right, right. right like like everything has the contrarians right and Like everything has to be the best.
00:58:26
Speaker
And if it's not the best, it's not worth anything. I know a lot of people were talking about how like box office failures and stuff like that. And it wasn't that bad.
00:58:40
Speaker
The movie broke even or something along those lines. and Or if a movie doesn't make like $200 billion, dollars it's like that movie was a failure. And we've gone into this world where it's like, holy shit, they start the you either are the greatest or you're nothing.
00:58:56
Speaker
yeah like There's no room in between anymore. like We just completely, we're so divided in everything now that very rarely it's just like, oh, that movie was okay. i Long Legs wasn't ah the greatest movie ever.
00:59:09
Speaker
It wasn't the worst movie ever. i liked that I watched it. Is that okay? like That's got to be okay still, right? Yeah. It did quite good, too, on top of that. Yeah. um
00:59:25
Speaker
But not every movie has to be Parasite. No, but I think he needs to hold up every movie to be Parasite. like There's a spectrum. Right. And what I'm saying is, if you don't make up if you don't ah reach Parasite, that's okay.
00:59:40
Speaker
Yeah. yeah that's yeah Yeah, that's definitely okay. Right, right? I mean, Red Dawn exists. Yeah, Red Dawn's awesome. Yeah. But it's not fucking Paris. Oh.
00:59:52
Speaker
It's not ah Lawrence Arabia. It's not. Well, when I was watching, i was thinking like Platoon. I love Platoon. Platoon is so good. Yeah. ah Charlie Sheen.
01:00:04
Speaker
And... um
01:00:07
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, of course, you know, that doesn't diminish its worth to an extent.
01:00:14
Speaker
But, ah you know, Parasite's good. I mean, if every movie was like Parasite, that'd be cool. It would be good, but that's just not real life.
01:00:25
Speaker
It's not real life and it's not attainable. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Yeah. It's like why I hate when people say masterpiece. and like Yeah, that's way overused. we can There are not that many masterpieces. Like, chill.
01:00:39
Speaker
There's like Killer Clowns from Outer Space. ah Ninja 3, The Dominion. Yeah, yeah. like Or is it domination or something? Domination. Yore. Yore. What was that tropical island or something like that?
01:00:53
Speaker
Where they're like two brothers or something. and they're like there's girls in bikinis everywhere. a dude and they're killing guys. It's like a cheap barbarian queen.
01:01:06
Speaker
These are masterpieces. The room. The room. That's the greatest of the masterpieces. You know it's not a masterpiece, but it's still good? It's like Heat.
01:01:17
Speaker
Heat's not a masterpiece, but it's a good movie. It's not your. Well, I think Heat's done a lot better in time, and it is awesome to see Pacino play opposite De Niro. Yeah, but Heat's too long.
01:01:34
Speaker
It needed to get cut down in like 20 minutes. Yeah. Every time I watch it I'm like, fuck, the middle drags like pretty hard. I kind of love it. Until the bank robbing scene. I love Heat all the way through, personally.
01:01:48
Speaker
You would.
01:01:52
Speaker
Fair. No, but Heat's like an 8 out of 10. What I'm saying is, when people say Heat is a masterpiece, I'm just like, it's not. say 8.5. That's fair. For me. that's fair for me um But yes, yes, you're, yeah, I guess. Yeah, sure. Okay, you're right.
01:02:09
Speaker
What did I see that was a masterpiece recently? I've been watching a lot of masterpieces. We were talking about Annie Hall. ah Apparently, that's a masterpiece for Woody Allen. And they're seeing it. i I've only seen... I mean, can you have like a masterpiece of a director, though, right? Not to say it's a masterpiece of cinema, but a masterpiece of that director. Yeah. would We call a masterpiece for like Magnum Opus. Is that better?
01:02:31
Speaker
magnum Well, that ain't his Magnum Opus, I don't think. Which one? Annie Hall. Really? What do you think? I have no idea. I don't know him well enough. Because there's some like really popular ones of his I haven't seen. I kind of love that it's okay to like just hate him because he's a rapist.
01:02:44
Speaker
And it's like, well, I don't have to watch Woody Allen movies. And i and i saying this, and then I'm going to watch Annie Hall. And I'd be like, fuck. I don't know. If you don't like Woody Allen... Well, I love Midnight in Paris. Do you love it?
01:02:57
Speaker
I love that movie. It's good. Oh, to me Annie Hall definitely has charm. I mean, it's before Woody Allen was ah known pervert. Yeah. And Keaton.
01:03:08
Speaker
Diane Keaton. I mean, she's one of the great actresses. Yeah. Or actors, right? I mean, she's just... But he also has Zelig. And he has a bunch of other movies that... It's just, he's got a huge oeuvre.
01:03:23
Speaker
And look how fucking fancy smancy we are now. We don't say like, we say oeuvre.
01:03:31
Speaker
ah But he's contender for one of the best. Absolutely. He's definitely top 100. He's like Polanski. yeah well absolutely um and he's definitely in the top one hundred he's like a polanski Right.
01:03:45
Speaker
Well, Polanski is like on a whole other level. I think ah the thing is I don't I don't I've seen way more Polanski than I've seen ah True. but but what do I've seen Woody Allen films that were like Oh, I don't know. I don't know any Polanski films that I've seen where I was like, damn, that's but I don't think I've seen that much of him.
01:04:06
Speaker
I've seen a couple. Tenet, he makes some weird ass fucking movies. I've never heard of The Tenet. It's about him living in an apartment and there's someone like sneaking around in his apartment and he's like trying to figure it out and people are like going missing and shit.
01:04:24
Speaker
And he meets us this hot young girl and then it turns out that like he's the one sneaking around his own apartment because he's got a split personality where he's a woman. Oh.
01:04:35
Speaker
Oh, goodness. Yeah, and it's a wild. It's wild. Sorry, just spoiled it. And like you'll probably never watch it. There's no reason for you watch it. Although there's Isabella Adjanias in that movie, and she's like one of the most beautiful women ever.
01:04:47
Speaker
Oh.
01:04:51
Speaker
So see, that's why critics are so important, because then ultimately you're left with people like us. And that ain't good. I don't think it's... i
01:05:02
Speaker
It's good and it's bad because I i loved your killer ah Killer Bear, Cocaine Bear review. I think that was one of the most beautifully written things I've ever read. um And i that's why I love when we write reviews because I think it really challenges you and it's really I think it's really good for a filmmaker to think about.
01:05:22
Speaker
to Essentially because to write review in a way is to essentially write what you know To understand what makes a film work is the only way you can really write a good review. And that's I think that's what was brought up in the article.
01:05:34
Speaker
Is that they have this deeper insight. Yeah. So I wrote some questions. Sure. I think you pretty much answered them all. um Which is interesting because we have a very similar ah perspective on this. i wish we this is It would have been nice to have Alex too.
01:05:53
Speaker
For him to read it. And have an opinion. because he was sitting in here and he goes, damn, this is long. How long is this? It's a little bit of an hour. god Yeah. goes, this is long. I'm like, don't worry, buddy. You got to read it.
01:06:12
Speaker
He really said that?
01:06:15
Speaker
Son of bitch.
01:06:18
Speaker
Dude, I love Alex. Oh, shit. Okay. Well. So within the article, he quotes Pauline Kael. And her quote is, without a few independent critics, there's nothing between the public and the advertisers.
01:06:33
Speaker
And this is why it would have been nice to have Alex. Do you think the barrier still exists? No. Okay. Because… How often is it now that these people are employed by companies that own the company that made that movie or something? Yeah, exactly.
01:06:50
Speaker
um ah One that you – some that you always bring up that you like, but everyone says is like an insider shill, right? you The shill gets brought up. That chick.
01:07:01
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Right? It's like she will like go really hard on certain movies that shoot that it's like, oh, you that was not that good. But she like was like... you know I mean, maybe she just that's just her own opinion. But right sometimes I'm just like, what the fuck?
01:07:17
Speaker
Yeah. I don't understand. um can't remember what her name is. Grace Randolph. Yeah. um But yeah, I've heard a lot of people say you know like chills and things like that. Like you're...
01:07:30
Speaker
Yeah, that's who I was thinking because, you know, there's been reviews that it's like, come on, dude. Really? Anything Disney, Marvel, especially Marvel, it's like, that's the greatest movie.
01:07:40
Speaker
And then sure enough, DC would come out and it's like, eh. And then, like, Parasite would come out like, ugh. It's just what? Yeah. Right. These are the reactions these movies have given you? Like,
01:07:55
Speaker
I don't know. they just That's a little weird, right? Different strokes for different folks, man. But at the same time, there's got to be a point where... You also realize that there is, man, how shitty is it to say this, but there is a level of pandering because your income, your revenue depends on clicks and and likes and and things like that. And you have a persona. So if you are the comic book guy that remove reviews comic book movies, you probably like comic book movies more than you would say Parasite.
01:08:29
Speaker
Because that's your niche. That's your thing. People that want to hear how much you love a comic book movie are going to come watch that person, right? That's why that shit is so popular. But that also needs to be clearly labeled. Yes. Right.
01:08:42
Speaker
But at the same time, it's not because... It's these also these echo chamber things. It's like the things where people are like, oh my god, like fucking this is the greatest thing ever made. You've never seen anything as good as fucking ballerina.
01:08:55
Speaker
Yeah. What? Excuse me? yeah but this Because a bunch of people that That one video probably got ah more views than our entire podcast.
01:09:08
Speaker
Oh, yeah. Right? And also, you have the people who are the complete opposite of her. nerd crew, right? Red Letter Media. Yeah. Like, the thing that they're mocking. It's like, but those are very popular.
01:09:21
Speaker
That thing that they're parodying is very popular. Yeah. That's why it's funny. It's because it's so popular and people fucking... do like They love that shit. yeah There's so many people that get off on that shit. The hyper positivity.
01:09:34
Speaker
Everything is the best. Do you think red letter media is biased? No. Yeah.
01:09:41
Speaker
I said Nerd Crew. That's what they were making fun of. oh You remember ne the Nerd Crew skits? Oh, yeah. When they're like, oh yeah, best show ever. Marvel. I was thinking the VFX guys when you said Nerd Crew.
01:09:53
Speaker
No, the the save the show. Yeah, yeah. Okay, yes, yes. You have that side, too. which Have you ever seen anything like that? I have, Yeah.
01:10:05
Speaker
The Schmoe down or whatever, the Schmoe crew or whatever their names are. they That's who they're making fun of, I think, are those kind of guys. yeah And they're like, yeah, you know, fucking I can't wait to go watch that new ah Venom movie. It's going to be so fucking good. Like, Venom is the greatest fucking movie ever. Like, I love Tom Hardy. Nothing that Tom Hardy's in is bad.
01:10:25
Speaker
And you're just like, what the fuck? Yeah. Yeah. i don't I'm not necessarily quoting them because I don't know if they ever did that or whatever. But the other ones I think that are real bad are the subversive ones.
01:10:40
Speaker
Mm-hmm. Who just hate on everything for the sake of doing it. Because there's money in that negativity, right? Especially when they're hating on the movies. You want them to hate on.
01:10:51
Speaker
Mm-hmm. Well, that's a drunk critic. what's Yeah, that critical drinker, that neurotic. Yeah. that What are they called? The one we wanted to have on the show at one point.
01:11:06
Speaker
Chris Gore. Oh, yeah. Whatever the fuck they are. Yeah. Film right? Is there? Because they're kind of getting just all negative. It's like, why? Because Chris Gore also did some really good videos on YouTube where it's like, damn, this guy knows some shit. Anyways.
01:11:24
Speaker
There's also that side of it where it's just like... Wait, was it Chris Gore? Who does the attack of... No, Chris Gore is not the is not the Film Right people.
01:11:35
Speaker
No, Film Right, they're the ones who show you how to make stuff. Yeah. Yeah, they're cool, whatever. No, i was thinking ah the attack of the show guy. Yeah. What are they called? It's not Film Right. No.
01:11:46
Speaker
Is it? No. Don't listen to this podcast. Anyway. Chris Gore and... Sorry. Just ignore me. hit His podcast. Who... Alan.
01:11:58
Speaker
Him and Alan. um
01:12:02
Speaker
Yeah, man. I...
01:12:06
Speaker
There's something for that I don't like about that negativity. saying just How about we talk about real good movies that need to be looked at? That's my issue. And I think that's why you need to have those greater critics because they're not being motivated by that, right? like In a sense, their take on a movie isn't as influenced...
01:12:27
Speaker
By the money. That's the hope. Yes. Right. Because they're getting paid by the newspaper. And also if you really. But then it's like dude Washington Post is owned by Bezos. Bezos owns Amazon. It's an Amazon produced studio. Blah blah blah. And that's one of the. big Right. Like there has to be a trust in a critic.
01:12:45
Speaker
Because when I hear Pauline Kell. Anytime she. i I hear a quote from her. It's just like god damn. She knew what was up. And she still does what's up. So insightful.
01:12:56
Speaker
Yeah. So much so that i it's made me want to to ah read her work. You know, just go back and like see how she breaks something down. Because it at that point, it can be educational, right?
01:13:10
Speaker
And even Siskel and Ebert, you know, when they would really kind of break down the film and get into the... The Depths, because they still wrote. They just also had this show that they made super popular. And dude, when I see their writing, like… Chicago Tribune, right?
01:13:24
Speaker
Fuck if I know. I think for… But they had really good insights. You know, I think sometimes they would get it wrong. But even if they got it wrong, it was like, okay, well, I can see and now why. And that's the argument that the ah the article is saying, right? Is… the impact of their review can change the, your perspective on a movie.
01:13:46
Speaker
like I know there have been times where I've literally changed how I felt about a film because of something I've read about the movie or like my appreciation for clerks.
01:13:57
Speaker
Like you can watch clerks and and enjoy it. But then when you kind of understand the story of clerks and then you watch clerks, it's like, Oh my God, this is fucking beautiful. Yeah.
01:14:09
Speaker
It's like with dickhead, hopefully. yeah that's your oh goodness. Got to bring it back. You know, this is ah that's how I mean, marketing 101. Always bring it back to you, right? make it a way We're good at that. um But yeah, and I think it is important.
01:14:25
Speaker
um I mean, Richard Brody, I think, gets a little a little up his own ass in the article, though. But isn't such the nature of the crowd going to say it respect? And it's like, maybe that's super on par, or on par, but that's like super on brand.
01:14:41
Speaker
um But yeah, i like there was a point towards the end where I was eye-rolling a little bit. I was like, Jesus fucking Christ, dude. yeah You ain't saving lives here. you know A critic ain't fucking curing cancer.
01:14:54
Speaker
um But it is still important. I think it's valuable that we have people that... professional like I said for us for you filmmaker out there listening to this podcast after you know years and years and years when you actually realize who we are and you go back and you're some weird nerd in your basement stroking your chin beard I was just doing that thinking wow those guys were so cool I remember when they made dickhead blah blah blah listening to this episode right now this is for you what was I saying laughing
01:15:34
Speaker
I'm kidding. I think I remember. yeah ah I was going somewhere with this. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's as as important as it is to watch films and read books.
01:15:46
Speaker
I think it's pretty important to like actually review them as well. I think there is value and merit there. In a world where you have to become the best fucking filmmaker, like you have it's like ah when you play StarCraft against a Korean character.
01:15:59
Speaker
it' It's like their life is StarCraft. They wake up, they play StarCraft. They don't have, they're not allowed to girlfriends, right? Shit like that. Like they are StarCraft players. They know that shit backwards inside it out there. You know, a shit's on their eyelids projected when they're sleeping. Like it's fucking insane.
01:16:16
Speaker
I'm not literally, of course, but my point is, And you would have to compete against that. My ass playing like three games a day, you know, or, you know, playing against the pro magic players that grind thousands of games, thousands of games.
01:16:33
Speaker
I mean, they recognize every, they're like, Oh, I i have these draws. I have, a you know, they don't need the percentage of the next chance that they draw. They're like, I know that like, I'm probably going to hit my fucking winner's story. Yeah.
01:16:47
Speaker
by this percentage. But what I'm saying is, in the world that we're in, the competitive nature of it, the way, if you can make yourself a better filmmaker, if there are avenues, if there are methods, you gotta take them.
01:16:59
Speaker
And actually, like I said, you know, good and getting into it, um learning, you know, the history of a film, like, the things behind it, reviewing that film, really breaking it down, trying to understand what makes the film work, what makes the film speak to you, will hopefully let you translate to the audience the same thing with your own broad work?
01:17:20
Speaker
And that's what my super long fucking answer is to that question. All right. So, you know, we kind of just touched on everything I wanted to bring up. Well, there you go. We'll have a link to that article if you want to read it.
01:17:33
Speaker
Richard Brody, if you'd like to come on the podcast to talk about this, I will not lick your boots.
01:17:41
Speaker
Jesus Christ.
01:17:46
Speaker
I have your notes. don't? I didn't write that he was a bootleg there. I'm kidding. I'm kidding, dude. I will say, the last New Yorker article we read, don't think we agreed with the author as much.
01:18:06
Speaker
But I'd say with this one, I do agree with him. Yeah, me too. ah Regardless of
01:18:14
Speaker
how can how flighty it can be a little bit with with its perspectives. but and know you know you know and And it's also educational to read from the ah critic.
01:18:26
Speaker
To learn more is because then they kind of open you up to different insights. Like I remember we were talking about watching la Ventura. And were like, eh. So we watched a like um ah a critical review of it from this one guy.
01:18:41
Speaker
And he just started breaking down the scenes. And was like, oh, okay. This is a very good movie. I see. I see. You know, so that really helped To not just sway you, but just educate you in a sense, you know?
01:18:57
Speaker
And then with that deduce like- Because- This is something like pretty remarkable. Because sometimes, dude, movies are pretty fucking smart. Yes, they are. They can be very smart. And and and it might may it's like one of those things too where- Maybe if we had watched Law Intour five or six times, we might start to like kind of like really break these things down.
01:19:17
Speaker
Because like the first time you watch a movie, you're like so enraptured. Maybe smarter people are actually like breaking things down while they're watching it. Or understanding what they're saying. Yeah. Because for like for me, especially, it's like, shit, I stopped reading the subtitles 10 minutes ago. I got no idea who the fuck that guy is. They're talking too fast. There's so much dialogue in this movie. I just want to look at all the pretty scenes and fucking yeah but the way everything
Creative Filmmaking with Limited Resources
01:19:41
Speaker
is... like And that's ah one of the things about La Aventura is, God damn, the cinematography in that movie is out of this goddamn world.
01:19:47
Speaker
yeah And the the the blocking and everything in that film is just so good. God damn, I didn't understand what the fuck was happening. It's a very beautiful film. And then like all a sudden, everyone's fucking attacking this lady. Like, what the fuck is going on?
01:20:01
Speaker
ah I mean, I kind i think if I watch it again, I probably understand it little bit better. But you're right. It's... I mean, i didn't get it. But then when he did break it down, it it it made a lot more sense.
01:20:12
Speaker
Yeah. Because I guess a lot of it was ah shown and not told. It's like, come on, tell me a little bit, please. And that's kind of beautiful because i i i appreciate that. Yeah, definitely.
01:20:23
Speaker
I appreciate that. And yeah it gives credence to the article. And i i'm I'm in complete agreement. Yeah. I think it's a good idea. And it's a sad thing to see that the critical critic yeah vanish. Because then you are just left with more mediocrity. Like us, man. like Let's be real.
01:20:44
Speaker
We don't have the insights of Pauline Kael. No. we don't have the education of anybody. we but We hope maybe we have ah good instincts to know when something's good or bad. But that's about it um So it is nice to to read from the critic.
01:21:05
Speaker
So that's why that's one of the reasons why I want to check her out. So I think that says a lot yeah for what the critic can represent, like you said. Just the more data sets you can collect from and you know perfect your work.
01:21:20
Speaker
Yeah, and we're going to kind of talk about that into our main topic, um which is getting your project off the ground. Sorry, Alex, I guess you're not here for that. You can listen, buddy. John Carpenter once said, when you have no money, you need invention.
01:21:36
Speaker
I don't think words more truer words have ever been spoken. um There's a lot to say for...
01:21:47
Speaker
the ingenuity of the no budget, low budget filmmaker. Yeah. I mean, there are so many little tricks.
01:21:58
Speaker
I mean, that's one of the beauties of, of having no money. I mean, ah of course it sucks, but you know, that's an interesting thing is like when filmmakers have, ah are limited, they tend to make better movies.
01:22:11
Speaker
Um, I guess that depends, right? Like on what kind of movies you like. You might like shit.
01:22:18
Speaker
But yeah all the best movies ever, right? They were, you know, ah fraught with limitations and had to overcome things. A lot more stressors, right? I mean, just think of how much invention was just done to make Citizen Kane. Like a lot of these shots had never been done before. and A lot of these techniques just didn't fucking exist.
01:22:34
Speaker
It was just like, hey, kent we're doing this. ah No one's ever done that before. I don't care. We're doing it. Yeah. Right? That's why it's important to make those things. got a lot of money. Oh, yeah. No, no, no. Yeah.
01:22:46
Speaker
yeah But i'm not know I'm not saying only financially, but sometimes the limitations are literally just that, you know. Just the money. Yeah. Most of the time. Right. How much? Most of the time? No, I would say one my limitations is education. Yeah.
01:23:02
Speaker
You know, in all aspects of this. But I think a lot, a thing too is like that ignorance is um is important. Of course. because we not not Not that I'm saying it's good. Because if we were ignorant, we wouldn't have made a movie called Dickhead.
01:23:14
Speaker
Yeah. Right? Yeah, would have... We would have been like, that's cool. We would have like stopped shooting until we had the camera fixed when we noticed that there was a green... I mean, look at that alone, right? A green bar.
01:23:25
Speaker
We would have ah correctly labeled all our files and footages. we would have known how to get good audio. Scenes. Good audio. We would have known to to love everybody.
01:23:35
Speaker
We would have known all these things. that And then it's like, well, shit, we couldn't afford loves and this. Maybe we're just not making the movie, right? like that was the that's the That's the downside, possibly. I mean, that's where money can't help because then we would know, like, hey, we need a sound person.
01:23:49
Speaker
yeah Hey, we need a DP. like And then we could actually afford him. and Yeah, and that's one thing. Afford the person that you know is... I mean, maybe you can't get the person you want.
01:24:01
Speaker
Like Alex getting Luis Guzman. but Because that would probably be a lot of money.
01:24:09
Speaker
A lot of money? A lot a lot of money? Probably triple his normal fee. But... you want me to be the fucking Rinko? What the fuck?
01:24:22
Speaker
I was in Booking Nights, bitch. Please, say this is a joke. ah What was my point? Fuck. I had a point. yeah I don't know what my point was.
01:24:36
Speaker
but But all these limitations... And with all these limiting factors, it doesn't mean that all hope is lost. And we're going to talk about a little bit about what it takes to kind of really get your project going.
01:24:50
Speaker
Our experience in kind of like getting projects off the ground. We got no problem. shooting stuff, didn't have a problem finishing it.
01:25:02
Speaker
um And yeah, it was just kind of more like to also, i ah since I knew Alex was going to be here, it was kind of also to be like a little bit of a, at least education for him, dynamic to talk and kind of see where he's at and kind of like what he was here for to discuss, to discuss, right? The, I,
01:25:20
Speaker
the yeah The marketing campaigns, the fundraising things, all that kind of stuff, which we discussed um at the top of the episode. yeah So the first topic here, buddy, is what are the main difficulties we face today in getting projects off the ground?
01:25:39
Speaker
Well, I think you made the main point. Money. It's really what it's all dependent on. I mean, you're spending money at some point. And if you're not spending money while you're spending time, and time does cost money. yeah you know
01:25:57
Speaker
and so nothing is free. So you just have to have that money. so That and, ah well, and thing I think I allude to iude to it in the later question is,
01:26:10
Speaker
It's just fucking time and scheduling. I mean, that's a huge thing too. well we can well But that money. you know i just I think it boils down to that.
01:26:22
Speaker
But the thing is is, we can make shit work for what we need. Yeah. Right? It's like, okay, maybe we don't need to rent an RE. Maybe we don't need to do this. Like, we have, we're slowly building lighting kits up. Like, we're getting into a way place where our production costs will necessarily just be people's time.
01:26:46
Speaker
right ah yeah That's kind of where the goal is because that's how it becomes affordable. That's how we bridge that gap of not having money. right is We have the camera, we have the lights, we have, but like Alex said, like just buying up props and things like that. Just having these things on hand, being able to make our own fake blood, things like that.
01:27:06
Speaker
These things help because It means that we are are closer to being able to actually shoot because the even though you have all that shit, it's still not cheap.
01:27:18
Speaker
yeah I mean, so yeah, you got the lighting kit. You got the camera. You got your gaffer gaffer stuff, right, for generators, electricity, bubble blah, blah, blah, batteries. You have all that, sure.
01:27:30
Speaker
That's like a tenth of the cost of time, food That's what i was going to say, food. The one cost we never anticipated. It was like so draining. Yeah, so expensive.
01:27:42
Speaker
And yeah, for a feature, 10 times that. ten times that um everything, the logistics for everything is just 10 times that. But just for shooting a short, it's like, yeah, you know we couldn' we can make that work. And that's what while that's a difficulty, these are kind of the ideas or solutions I have to get around that budget limitation.
01:28:04
Speaker
right But yes, so if I may, i would i also agree. Because you know even despite like what we have taught for Alex, just in general, i mean you could just use your camera phone.
01:28:17
Speaker
Yeah. You write the phone on your camera. And most people have that. You know, those are very accessible, at least here in the States, and I'm sure elsewhere, too. And you can make a fine film with that.
01:28:32
Speaker
But
01:28:35
Speaker
just you have to start with the story, right?
01:28:41
Speaker
And then just every step along the way, do the best you can. And that's how you shore up the lack of money, right? Because if you're going to do this, you have to accept it's going to come at a cost.
01:28:54
Speaker
Yes. There is no getting around that. It's going to cost you. So if you're willing to do that, then i think you should put in the effort, personally. it's like when I don't understand just kind of fucking around and be like, yeah, i don't care if anyone sees it.
01:29:09
Speaker
It's like, no, I'm not going to spend all this time and not care if anyone sees it. Right. And I want to make it worth their time. On top of that. yeah i want I want it to be the best thing I can fucking make. And the thing is... I mean, I could understand someone's just trying to learn and train.
01:29:25
Speaker
Like, I got to train. I got to do 15 more shorts. You know, I'm getting there. Yeah. And then I'll be ready to do my free trade. I was like, okay, well, sure. Yeah. But then you make those shorts fucking cheap and on the fly, right? and Just to learn and practice. like That's what like one of the things I wanted to do. I mean, you just get better and better, right? Yeah. It's because there is actually a lot of value in putting in those reps. Yeah. um And if you can you know what if you don't need to necessarily do like...
01:29:51
Speaker
professional acting or casting and just grabbing and you want to just say, hey, I want to focus on like shooting and lighting a great scene. And then I have the story that goes along with it. And then you can do that with it. So then you learn your kit and then you learn how to fucking do it.
01:30:06
Speaker
Sure, you don't you know you might be able to hire a cinematographer in the future that you know has you know that has that experience and knowledge. But a lot of time, we don't have that luxury. We're our own cinematographers a lot of the time.
01:30:18
Speaker
um We are our own gaffers. We're our own crew. So we should know how to use the electronics. We should know how to use the batteries. How to fucking set up a C-stand. Like these things we need to know because we oftentimes don't have the luxury to have a crew that knows how to do all this stuff.
01:30:35
Speaker
Yeah. And also… So you don't need to be like fucking… but it like like Right? Like Rico's different. Like we're putting this time and money and effort into making Rico… um But it's not like fucking us eating spaghetti or butt spaghetti or whatever the fuck that little short is. Yeah. Where it's just like, hey, I just wanted to try fucking around with this stuff to see what we can do. And I do want people to see that. I think it's a cool little ad ah for our podcast.
01:31:01
Speaker
Yeah. And I think there's, you know, there's value in that. But damn, you don't just fucking make shit to make shit. Yeah, I mean. Have a purpose.
01:31:11
Speaker
I mean, it's interesting. Like, look at it. The people we get to look back on are still relatively, well, they're still alive. Yeah. you know So this whole notion of being able to make it at a very cheap budget is pretty new.
01:31:24
Speaker
And you can look towards certain films like ah Clerks, Slacker, um Evil Dead. ah You can look at how to make these very cheap productions now and make a good film.
01:31:44
Speaker
So, yeah, I mean, you really got to put that effort into just devoting the time it needs. Yeah. You know, you got to put, I mean, i don't get it. I really don't get the people who just do, it just, I guess I would say as a hobby.
01:32:02
Speaker
But I'm not a hobbyist, I don't think. Yeah. Do video games count as a hobby? Yeah, I guess. Oh, fuck, I'm a huge hobbyist. Yeah. But you know what I'm saying? like Not really. I don't know. Maybe. you know what I'm saying? Like, dickhead.
01:32:17
Speaker
The only way I can justify it is like, no, we're going to do the best we can. And we're getting this the intelligent part is we're going to set this up to be an opportunity. Yes. The unintelligent part is like, I just want to make a fucking movie with my buddy.
01:32:30
Speaker
Yeah. And I want to make it really good.
01:32:34
Speaker
You know? Yeah. so So if you're not doing your best, like why would anyone why would there be another project? I don't know, man. What fuck I talking about?
01:32:46
Speaker
I'd also say one of the other difficulty ah that sometimes there's only one that we face, but I would imagine a lot of people face, and it's managing expectations.
01:32:57
Speaker
um Yes. You're not going to make ah Titanic for $9. Yeah.
01:33:05
Speaker
yeah Maybe you could make a really interesting like cardboard cutout Titanic movie for $9 if you're inventive enough. Well, there's like, you know, that's one film that has so much charm.
01:33:20
Speaker
What? And when you say rentage ah inventiveness enough is ah Be Kind, Rewind, right? Yes. With Jack Black and Mos Def. Yeah. Right?
01:33:30
Speaker
And they're doing the cardboard cutouts in the RoboCop. I love that. Yeah. It had charm. And you know what? That film's great. I love that movie. um It's an ode to films, right? It makes you just kind of love and appreciate the film.
01:33:42
Speaker
It reminds me a lot of Son of Rambo. That's what was thinking about too, right? That was so good. Yeah. Both those movies, I think, also came out around the same time. and yeah Yeah. There's something about... I think filmmakers love movies about people making films.
01:33:57
Speaker
They do. it's just But especially when it's just... Heart and soul. yeah It's like, no, you do love movies. You made this And you love... Because the thing about... And that's what the beauty is about doing film at our level while we're at our level, is you get to be so inventive.
01:34:14
Speaker
I mean, fucking hell, there's so many hurdles. like try you Using the ah the wheelchair as a dolly, um like some of the weird and cool inventive shit that we figured out, like that ah the pan into the po o are the walk into the POV shot, yeah like shit like that. It's like, dude, that's fucking inventive. Yeah.
01:34:36
Speaker
That could be... i mean, sure, we failed sometimes, oftentimes, but right figuring out how to get cool over the head shots or yeah yeah just getting cool shots, like that's fun.
01:34:50
Speaker
There's a lot of and of ah ingenuity that goes into that. um And if you have the story to back it up, that's all need. Especially with the Evil Dead, right? With the ah putting the piece of wood and mounting the camera to it. yeah I mean, just that whole movie, right?
01:35:05
Speaker
That movie is- Which adds extra charm once you know the history and you know why- If you just saw like, oh, dude, I'm going to show you the greatest horror film ever made. it You showed the Evil Dead. Someone would probably be like, what the fuck? Fucking asshole. Yeah.
01:35:18
Speaker
Why are you showing this to me? That's a sock puppet. You know the Exorcist exists. It's not shock puppet. So, I mean, but also getting the chance to learn from those films. Like Slacker. I think Slacker is probably a really good film to watch.
01:35:35
Speaker
Because Linklater knows his shit, man. And I'm sure he had some money. did like No, Slacker didn't have any money. Linklater knows his shit, dude. Like the film he kept. Because that's his very first, right? yeah No student feature? No.
01:35:50
Speaker
Don't believe so. Well, that film, it's nicely made. And it's a very interesting, unique thing. like you should you You really got to check it out. I should watch it. I don't think I finished it because it makes an hour feel like and hour It's like taking a place taking place over an afternoon.
01:36:09
Speaker
You feel the whole afternoon. ah But it's pretty it's pretty interesting. um you know i hear as a movie that's like that too, I've never seen Usher Watch's Bottle Rocket.
01:36:22
Speaker
ah I thought we watched it. That's Wes Anderson, right? I think we just watched a little bit of it. I don't think I've seen the whole thing. Oh, I've seen it. Yeah. It's pretty good, right? Hey, Linklater, dude. Well, but... But yeah, no, that's one of the and the things I love is about early filmmakers' works is how fucking just inventive.
01:36:43
Speaker
Killer's Kiss for fucking Kubrick, right? Just the... Well, goat to go back Bottle Rocket, that's where I would go with ah Wes Anderson in that. One of the best parts about that film is he wasn't trying to be Wes Anderson. you know He had the quirks there, but he wasn't trying.
01:36:58
Speaker
Like Rushmore or Royal Tenenbaums. He hadn't quite figured it out until you get to the Grand Budapest. And it's like, he's ascended. and i am the Wes. Yeah. And he's… Yeah. Right.
01:37:11
Speaker
But yeah. I would even say like Steve Zizou or whatever. It's like he's… Oh yeah. Life Aquatica. Yeah. Yeah. That's true. That's the real one. That's what the OG people say. Like Final Fantasy 6 or 7. Yeah. He fucking… He became Wes Anderson. That movie is so Wes Anderson.
01:37:28
Speaker
And you've never seen anything like that before too So i was like, whoa. This is weird. I like it. Yeah. And then now when you get to even like newer films like the ah Moonrise Kingdom and stuff, it's like almost becoming a parody of himself in a in a degree.
01:37:43
Speaker
Well, that's why people are shooting on him lately, yeah. Because that's kind of the problem when you have such a ah strong style. Yes. um You start to having to lean into it.
01:37:56
Speaker
Which I don't think people give him enough credit for. But also maybe he's going too much. Because there's like Tarantino. You know when you're watching a Tarantino film. He's got a very strong style. But he doesn't overstate it. Maybe he's also, i guess he's less prolific.
01:38:12
Speaker
He is. Right, he's made less movies. And also, fucking Tarantino, hes just he is such a masturbatory filmmaker. And it takes him a while because he's been doing it nonstop. Because he is just making fucking movies that he wants to watch.
01:38:27
Speaker
Yeah. And... It just so happens that the movies that he wants to watch is like a you know a rip off of every fucking movie he's ever seen. Yeah. And he just throws them in the blender and somehow makes it work.
01:38:41
Speaker
like he's like ah He's like a serial killer, right? Making a message with cut letters in He is. that's like he if he I would love to see like him just actually cut together a bunch of old movies into a single narrative.
01:38:56
Speaker
ah yeah You could get every any movie you wanted. And you could just cut scenes from it to make a single narrative. Yeah, he'd make a masterpiece, man. Yeah. it would be fucking wild. Like, sure, the continuity wouldn't make any sense. Yeah.
01:39:09
Speaker
But it would just be this fucking wild, right? Like, man, we cut to the fucking shot from Once Upon a Time in the West. And there's a fucking harmonica there. You know, it's like fucking everything. That'd be the jazz of movies.
01:39:21
Speaker
Yeah. And that's essentially what he does. Yeah. As a filmmaker, he just you know does it more cohesively. He just does it with a style, man. And and the thing is is, he thankfully, like you said, he's not as prolific.
01:39:39
Speaker
The problem with, like I would say, like Wes Anderson and even Kevin Smith, like all these guys that have that style. You can't put Kevin Smith in the same sentence. No, but what I'm saying is, like he it's like he'd become a parody of himself. like it I don't know what happened, man.
01:39:54
Speaker
I saw Clerks 3. What's called? Wasn't too bad. Clerks 3? That new one? No, that was like a callback to form. But then he did the whole ending. I'm going to make the greatest film ever.
01:40:07
Speaker
I know. And was like, no, dude, Kevin, no. Don't link it back to you. Just stay away from yourself. you It can be you, but let it be a moment in time. But right, that's kind of the problem with when you have that thing. Like, he can never really break away from it.
01:40:22
Speaker
yeah Clerks is, it's too good of a story. The background of it, like him, you know, right? the The kid from New Jersey that had no fucking money, getting, maxing out all his credit cards. And he's probably the greatest success of any film.
01:40:36
Speaker
like legit indie film, right? It's probably Kevin Smith being the greatest success of them all. Yeah. Yeah, that'd be a hard thing to to live.
01:40:48
Speaker
Right? It's like, it would be like... live
Overcoming Filmmaking Challenges
01:40:50
Speaker
up to. right it's like we It's like, for the story of Dickhead, right? To bring, you know, us marketing 101, bringing it back to us. Uh... ah Fucking right. Ten years.
01:41:00
Speaker
The fucking struggle. The edits. The editors. The fucking people dropping. All this shit to you know like the struggles with ah working finding and working freelance and fucking getting every little detail. The fucking green rectangle of death like overcoming these fucking obstacles to try and make this goddamn movie.
01:41:17
Speaker
It's like the story of making it is fucking insane. I mean, just getting together all of these actors in this cast, this phenomenal like fucking cool little cast. Everyone is like perfect for their role.
01:41:30
Speaker
it's It's fucking insane. um And I know I'm tooting my own horn a little hard here, but I don't know how else you really could put that other than it's just it's something else.
01:41:45
Speaker
um It's definitely a wild journey.
01:41:52
Speaker
can't say that Can't say it hasn't been. um And that's only the first bullet point, huh?
01:42:03
Speaker
Oh, OK. So we kind of talked about the first two bullet points. mean uning these fine time What time setting mechanics are you using? I could ask him about that.
01:42:16
Speaker
i had already asked. Oh, we kind of could wrap things up. I think we're getting close to wrapping things up.
01:42:27
Speaker
well like Oh, and I got you another drink. Oh, excellent. Thank you, sir. That's the orange one.
01:42:35
Speaker
It's pretty good. Oh, yeah. It's good. Yeah, so I talked ah pretty much. i think we've covered all most of all these bullet kind of just touched on them. Yeah. And it's interesting. We had very much the same perspective. I guess that's a good thing.
01:42:52
Speaker
Possibly a bad thing. It's only a bad thing if it doesn't work out. That's a really good point. Fair enough. Leave it at that then. was going to say, do you have anything in your notes that you wanted to bring up?
01:43:06
Speaker
Yeah, that's what I'm looking at. I feel like I've been doing a lot talking. It's your turn. I guess we can do two more, like literally the last two. Sure. So one of them is time.
01:43:22
Speaker
And that was mentioned in the notes. So what time like saving mechanics are you using then? um One thing I think that we've done is like you even just, I don't even know if that was, I think that was even on the podcast.
01:43:39
Speaker
don't if I had paused it yet, but you were talking about like how we're going to meet up later on Discord. Yeah. Essentially, just utilizing technology to kind of like make things easier. It's always better when we can sit in a room together and work, but that just isn't a reality a lot of the time. and and So utilizing you know tools like Discord um has been huge.
01:44:00
Speaker
um just with Even just with audio and and with everything like... Communicating with them through that ah because we don't really meet with them that much like in a meeting kind of set up scenario, which is something I wish we did more, but it's just not feasible.
01:44:15
Speaker
I mean, we're in different crazy different time zones and and life and work and it's wild. So that's one thing. The other thing I would say is you have it's being better with pre-production in a sense.
01:44:33
Speaker
If you're talking project-wise, ah you really have to have pre-production down. Because once you have that, like your actual time making the film, like which is going to be like the bulk of the struggle, right because you have to like find babysitters for that day, thing like things like that.
01:44:51
Speaker
But if you have that fucking pre-production down... you can you can probably get it done if you actually, you know you have that plan. And that's the thing that you need is you need to know what you have to to adjust for.
01:45:06
Speaker
And that's kind of, I guess, I don't know if that's a tactic for saving time or a time-saving mechanic, but pre-production is a time-saving mechanic. yeah Correct and proper pre-production saves you time.
01:45:22
Speaker
And one thing I think that ultimately leads to that I've been thinking about since we've been talking is just the discipline of it, right? To actually sit down and do it.
01:45:34
Speaker
Like, I think that's been part of the issue is the procrastination, at least for myself, because I could utilize my time a hell of a lot better in all aspects. Yeah.
01:45:46
Speaker
And I think it's true that it has reflected that because we are at 10 years. I mean, it really shouldn't have taken this long. No. Half this time probably. It probably doesn't even deserve to take this long.
01:45:57
Speaker
It doesn't. That's why it's like, we got to get done. Exactly. We got to get done. So I think just that discipline to sit down and do it. I mean, one thing I've been doing, you know, sometimes I need a little bit of the hoo-hoo to get a little light in my head to just kind of decompress and
01:46:17
Speaker
just relax, just relax little bit. But not get too fucked up. and But man, when I do, I just want to eat and play video games.
01:46:29
Speaker
And it's like, Steven, you earned it again today. Come on. You deserve it You need some rest.
01:46:36
Speaker
But I've been kind of implementing where I'm like, well, at least try. So it's like, yeah, i don't want to do the podcast. Well, at least try to you know, open up a file, check it out.
01:46:48
Speaker
And then I actually can get some work done. There's a point where it's like, no, I'm just too fucked up now. I can't.
01:46:56
Speaker
Um, But yeah, so you got to have that discipline to work at it. And the humility, you know, you got to like research the critics and what they're doing, what they said about the film and all of that.
01:47:12
Speaker
You know, research a film and why a certain masterpiece of a film is so great. You know, you got to put in that time and effort to understand it. Or like with these indie movies we were talking about, like, well, how did the Evil Dead do what they did with their special effects and everything?
01:47:27
Speaker
Yeah, Learn it. The information's out there. You got to put in the due
Learning from Critics and Filmmakers
01:47:31
Speaker
diligence. You're not figuring it out for the first time. Orson Welles already came along. yeah you know you're not the The wheel's been invented.
01:47:38
Speaker
Yeah, the wheel has been invented. All you can do at best is maybe you know polish or etch the thread a little bit better on this section of the wheel. yeah um But you know we also have that opportunity to see the design of the wheel and how the threads running along the wheel and and how to use it, how, how it spins and what it's used for. right There's a lot to draw from and you got to take the time to, to research that.
01:48:08
Speaker
And make it worthwhile. Unless you're just doing it for fun, then, you know, who gives a shit? And if, well, if you're doing it for fun, it's like, who cares? Right. Like you said, who cares? Yeah. Who gives it? Have fun. Yeah. Not to say that's a bad thing. Like, just have fun.
01:48:22
Speaker
Like, if you're just doing it as a hobby, then you're your goal should be to have as much fun as you can. Yeah. um right because anything And I think that fun shine shines through too, right? Because like yeah, I can tell you just loved this format and you know this is your ode to that.
01:48:40
Speaker
And there's something special in that too. yeah Like Kevin Smith, man, he just loves himself. that was excel
01:48:49
Speaker
He definitely loves himself. So it's really funny, right? He really just can't get over that ah It will haunt him forever in a weird way. And it's like, why? like You still made, you know was it Chasey Gaby, Mallrats, Dogwa? Red Red State. Tusk. Tusk for me. like you know You've made some like good follow-ups.
01:49:12
Speaker
I mean, Kevin Smith was pretty on it for a little bit, right? Yeah. Jane Silent Bob? No. That was kind of on the down. That was like the start.
01:49:23
Speaker
yeah Yeah. The Jane Sigh and Bob Strike Back. It's not a bad movie. It was like Dogma and then after that. Yeah, because Dogma, then it was Jane Sigh and Bob Strike's Back and then he had like his Jersey Girl G... What's the other one? ah Cop Out.
01:49:38
Speaker
Cop Out. Although I did like Cop Out. I've never seen it. I liked it and I was like, that's Kevin Smith? Holy shit. He just made a movie. You didn't try to make a Kevin Smith movie. So I was like, oh, cool.
01:49:50
Speaker
And I think that, yeah, that's the problem is Kevin Smith only knows, only but he can but he can make other movies. Well, yeah, like Red State. yeah That was very not, It didn't feel like his normal voice in that film. And i I mean, a lot of people liked it. I thought it was very solid.
01:50:07
Speaker
hated the end, but once he explained it, it was like, okay, you were high, definitely. Yeah. So that's where the good idea came from. But sure, it's fine. Yeah. And the wild thing, too. And that's like the thing with Wes Anderson, right? is He's stuck.
01:50:23
Speaker
He's just... He's so up his, don't want to say up his own ass because it sounds fucked up, but he's so. He's so committed to this specific approach to it. That he's, he lost the tree for the woods or whatever.
01:50:38
Speaker
He's trying to perfect his technique, but it's like, it's art. Art's not perfect. Yeah. The perfection is in the imperfection, you know, like. I do think Bottle Rocket and Rushmore especially, um but Royal Tenenbaums too.
01:50:54
Speaker
um Even the Grand Budapest, but you he had a roughness. And when he had that roughness where he was just kind of being sincere, it shined through, you know, the sincerity. Maybe his films are becoming a little insincere, i think.
01:51:09
Speaker
Yeah. You know, in a more very general sense. Yeah.
01:51:15
Speaker
But yeah, so I would say time-saving mechanic is just to be disciplined and and work on it every day and study it. You know, it can be fun to do the research. yeah That's part of the fun, part of the journey. Like, it's cool to see good movies.
01:51:32
Speaker
Yes. You know, it is cool to see a Wes Anderson movie. I do study them. And it's important to do that. Yeah.
01:51:42
Speaker
I mean...
01:51:45
Speaker
I don't think you should just watch movies and not make them if that's what your goal is to make movies. Eventually you got to, you know, get on the horse. But at the same time, and all starts with, like you said, it all comes down to story.
01:52:01
Speaker
Yeah. If you can't write a compelling story, It don't matter how fucking good your camera is. Well, you don't have to write one. You just have to find one at that point. Yeah, it's fair. You do not have to be a screenwriter to be a filmmaker. No.
01:52:15
Speaker
You do not. um but what i'm but my point and But my point stands is if you don't got that. If you don't got the story. It don't matter if you have $200 million fucking iPhone 6.
01:52:29
Speaker
of fucking iphone six All that matters is that goddamn story. Yeah. You know, it's like ah Jared and Clark said.
01:52:40
Speaker
They were going to make Great and Terrible Day of Lord no matter what. If they were in an apartment because they believed in the story. And they had that story. If it was... so If you have that story, you're gonna you got to make it.
01:52:55
Speaker
Yeah. And I know it could be a disservice in a sense um if you can't make it properly. Yeah, then you shouldn't make it.
01:53:07
Speaker
But then it's like you have to... like Where does that balance stand? You have to have some humility. yeah like you There's times where you have to stand firm and be proud, but there's those times where you have to concede and...
01:53:22
Speaker
That's the hard part of being the director, right? Is when to lose the battle. um But I think it has to be in the script. Like, if you can't make it, then don't make it.
Importance of Story and Resource Alignment
01:53:32
Speaker
You know? and that includes financing. and like And maybe that's also part of finding the story.
01:53:37
Speaker
You have to find a story you can make. Yeah, that is part of it. Right? It's not... it's Like the Evil Dead again. Right. They couldn't make it in a sense, right? You could see the budget.
01:53:49
Speaker
But they also could make it because they knew how to do a lot of special effects and how to make it all work. And that movie, you know, the Coens, that was like, they worked on that film.
01:54:00
Speaker
Yeah. Sam Raimi, Bruce Campbell, like, don't If you love horror films, you love the Evil Dead. It is that film. Evil Dead, yeah. It's, yeah.
01:54:11
Speaker
It's wild. Yeah, so I mean, you got to make the movie you can make. And then if you really find that story, well, you got a really good chance.
01:54:21
Speaker
But not a lot of people put in the time and the effort. Yeah. They're just like, no, this is the story. It's good enough. It's like, eh. like Maybe the idea's there. Maybe that's the only place you've got. That's the problem.
01:54:33
Speaker
A lot of people get the idea, right? How many films have you seen that have excellent premises But the fucking story sucks. yeah their Characters are awful.
01:54:44
Speaker
There's fucking nothing going on other than a kick-ass premise. And sometimes a premise can do a lot of fucking heavy lifting. I mean, fucking hell. Crank.
01:54:55
Speaker
Yeah. You buy into the premise. that it does the That's the whole movie, right? You are cranked. The story is, i don't know if, he if if i maybe be not maybe people don't know about much about Crank anymore. i think that movie came out in 2006. Yeah, that's probably a movie of its time.
01:55:12
Speaker
Yeah. But also, yeah i mean, you you you make a good point there. Yes, you make a good point. What's my point? Oh, yeah, like us, you know, we that script was way too rushed. Yeah.
01:55:26
Speaker
s It was. It has its charms, but it was way too rushed. That's why we spent, what, eight years in the edit yeah just trying to get that thing put together correctly. yeah Really, because right now the editing is pretty much locked.
01:55:39
Speaker
Pretty much. um Dude, it's just been like completely steeply downhill of finishing things up. um But that's where we had to find the story, right?
01:55:52
Speaker
Because there was premises, there was ideas, like Jennifer having that monologue with Richard in her room. There's that idea of what that scene represents. But then finally, through sheer dumb luck and hope, we captured it on their walk to school.
01:56:08
Speaker
yeah And so much shorter of time, so much more efficient, and hitting the heart. Capturing a heart there as opposed to a charm.
01:56:21
Speaker
ah If people see it, that's a big one. That's why you got to be able to hear it. Yeah. So, yeah. You got to have that story.
01:56:33
Speaker
And if you're not getting the story, then... Let me ask you this. Let's say you get like pretty invested. Then you realize, say oh yeah, this story fucking sucks. like You kind of figure it out in the edit like us. ah When do you abandon it?
01:56:47
Speaker
When do you abandon a project? I mean, you want to say you never abandoned a project, but like, yeah, no, you got to abandon some shit. who um
01:56:57
Speaker
i i I would say the unfortunate aspect is... the only time that I think it's appropriate to abandon project is before anything has been shot.
01:57:10
Speaker
It has to be at the script. Once think once other people are involved, you're committed. You have to go for good or bad. These people, regardless of if you're paying them or not,
01:57:23
Speaker
Once you involve someone else. they are You have to follow through. It was like I was saying earlier with Alex. Which is that my um my only fear of doing the crowdfunding thing.
01:57:35
Speaker
If you fuck that up, no one's going to fucking invest in you again. No one's going to give a shit about you. kind of put a big strike on your name. right yeah Or maybe not a big strike, but someone sees you, they do some research.
01:57:47
Speaker
Yeah. Right. You got, somehow you wheels your way into a production office and you pitch a story and then they're like, Oh, you, you got like five grand to make a movie that you never finished it.
01:57:59
Speaker
And you think it'd be that harsh. Oh yeah. Interesting. I mean, what would you do? Imagine you're the producer and you look up this guy got all this money. He never made shit with it.
01:58:11
Speaker
And I'd be like, you want my money to make a movie? Come sit on the couch with me. Let's talk it over. You want the blue or the red drink?
01:58:22
Speaker
But, right? like yeah Yeah, that's true. and And if you're investing your money, it's like, well, you need to do some research, right? And those people, hopefully, for their sakes, they do.
01:58:34
Speaker
yeah And it's not like it's hard. to say We're not talking pennies. We're not talking dollars. We're talking thousands, tens of thousands, millions.
01:58:46
Speaker
This is not chump change. These are people's lives. I mean. But then look at Disney and all the bad actors they're hiring, right? Like, oh, these actors are racist.
01:58:56
Speaker
Oh, Hulk Hogan. Oh, no. So then they fire those people. Yeah. Even Carino ain't on fucking Wars no more. Yeah, then Disney takes a huge hit, right? Rightfully so.
01:59:08
Speaker
Yeah. It's either you stand by it or you never make that mistake again. Yeah.
01:59:17
Speaker
Shit. All right. Well, anything else? No, I think we're good. That was the episode. Hope everyone enjoyed it. Um,
01:59:27
Speaker
We kept it to a two hours, which isn't too bad. Hey, that's good for me. All right. i Thank you for listening to Twin Shadows Podcast, the podcast about film filmmaking and filmmakers. And this is Tom and Steve signing out.
01:59:41
Speaker
Cut.