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TSP Ep 132: Don't Try or Try Really Hard!
26 Plays26 days ago
In this episode, Tom and Steve get deep on their philosophy of trying your hardest to make your film or maybe not trying because that desire and goal should come of its own will. I don't know. I didn't listen to the episode!
So come along with us as we learn a thing or two!
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Transcript
Podcast Introduction & Humor
00:00:00
Speaker
This is Twin Shadows Podcast with your two favorite hosts, Tom and Steve, coming at you from the high desert.
00:00:13
Speaker
Welcome, everyone, to Twin Shadows Podcast, the podcast about film, filmmaking, and filmmakers. Brought to you, as always, by the two sexiest men alive, Tom and Steve.
00:00:26
Speaker
This episode is titled, Don't Try. That's what all the girls tell us on OnlyFans. You guys are so sexy. You can ask you can ah slide your credit card here, but you know don't bother anything else.
OnlyFans & Social Media Insights
00:00:42
Speaker
You know, it's so crazy. like i Like how they turn you away when you don't got money.
00:00:47
Speaker
I was thinking about, this might not be like a great topic to get into, since you know our only viewers are our close loved ones. Uh-oh, that's true.
00:01:00
Speaker
I kind of admire the predatory nature OnlyFans in the sense that... like It's predatory? I think it is because you know half of the OnlyFan models have like agencies that do like the replies and oh really things like that. like there was a thing I was reading a thing about it. um You mean Jennifer doesn't really love me?
00:01:19
Speaker
Jennifer doesn't really love you, and she's not even talking to
Bourbon & Whisky Tasting
00:01:22
Speaker
you. Now I understand Richard more than ever. lot these girls, it's like... a lot of these girls like it's like You know, in OnlyFans, it's essentially like ah like a small business. And it's nice.
00:01:34
Speaker
And we're drinking Willett bourbon, the pot-stealed bourbon. And Glenn Morangi, 14-year. Which one did you like more? I'm liking this Willett on the Rocks, like, a lot.
00:01:48
Speaker
Kind of tastes like a rotten banana.
00:01:53
Speaker
Yeah, but in a nice way. Is there a dog in here? Behind the couch? Is Oh, Zoe?
00:02:04
Speaker
But yeah, that's actually a really nice drink. um I think I like the Glen Morangi a little bit more because I like the Glen Morangi more. I mean, it's I don't know. It's nice to have the bitter.
00:02:16
Speaker
wanted of This will it's real smooth. It's real smooth and it's a it's a little sweet. Like you said, that but the banana. It is sweet. There's that sweetness. Real sweet. And I know people that aren't whiskey drinkers would be like, sweet?
00:02:31
Speaker
It ain't like a Hershey bar sweet. Tastes like shit. But, you know, it's sweet, like, for whiskey. I'm definitely, yeah. It's super sweet.
00:02:41
Speaker
and little too You said it was a little too sweet, huh? It is, yeah. I think so, too, yeah. But on the rocks, yeah, maybe, yeah. The Glen Mirage is better, for sure. But I'm liking this, because, like, it's a nice, like, second drink. This is smoother. The other one's...
00:02:55
Speaker
Well, this is just smoother. But I think the other one kind of has a better profile. Yeah.
Audience Reflections & Show Notes
00:03:00
Speaker
The other one, yeah. The like other one, the one, and it's lot better. And you know, that's the crappy thing about- Because getting that banana taste a lot. The crappy thing about whiskey that I've noticed is, damn, dude, the more expensive bottles often- Do taste better. Do taste better. Like the Glen Morangi is like 20 bucks more than the Willett.
00:03:16
Speaker
Oh, than this? Yeah. Wow. That's interesting because the Willett bottle, like the shape of it is so nice. It looks way more expensive. Yeah. No, I think that bottle's only like 60 bucks or 50 bucks. Really?
00:03:30
Speaker
So it's not like the Will It that we've gotten before? No. Because I love that Will It. That's the rye, yeah. That's the rye. Yeah, that rye Will it's It's so good. good It's probably one of my favorite whiskeys. It's a beautiful bottle.
00:03:41
Speaker
I was telling Jake, its ah you can practice it as a sex toy if you want. He's like, mmm. Ribbed for her pleasure. Al, could you imagine? No, I literally can't.
00:03:55
Speaker
and I've seen videos. not Speaking of OnlyFans, no. If I were a gay guy, I would need little pee-pee. I mean, you got it. Haven't you ever taken like a big shit?
00:04:06
Speaker
And it's just like, oh, God, come out of me. Yeah. you just want to like grab it with your hands and just like pull it out because it just hurts so much. You know, it's ripping you in half. He needs a fiber in your diet. Maybe too much fiber in my diet. Maybe, yeah. You ate the whole box of shredded wheats.
00:04:23
Speaker
You know, you're taking old age seriously. What but were we doing? Oh, yeah. Damn, so my whole life has been spent working on Dickhead, huh?
00:04:36
Speaker
I was a young man going in. You know, I was... Old coming out, just
Life Situations & Repetitive Content
00:04:40
Speaker
like my shit. Yeah, I was going through um for the the VFX shots and doing the renders.
00:04:48
Speaker
And then, i think... What was that? Marianne or... Suzanne, it was Suzanne, she posted like a picture and I was just like, oh, fuck. we took We took our time. Yeah. Like, man.
00:05:04
Speaker
i was yeah because then I was thinking about that because essentially our show notes, I was just like wrote like a journal entry. don't know. Yeah, I was actually... um What I was doing. I was a little too busy to work on them because normally when you send them to me, I'll send them to Word and I'll just...
00:05:21
Speaker
Type up my responses that I never read. But I still like to do this. so I kind of have the idea in my head. Anyways, I was going through these notes and I was like, is there a question? I literally wrote on my notes, any questions?
00:05:35
Speaker
I think you only asked me one question that I actually read going through these show notes. So, you know, it seems like you have a lot to share. it was more like... I have stuff to bring up and I think that will bring us to talk about stuff. Share and reflect on. Lead the way, buddy. This episode is going to be a lot about dickhead, of course.
00:05:58
Speaker
So if you hate those episodes. That's all we're talking about. Literally, I just finished an episode that we did when James Earl Jones passed away. And I think that was a month. That was probably like 2024, don't know. Or 2022. Yeah.
00:06:10
Speaker
or twenty twenty two um And then I looked at the episode before that because I'll reference the previous episode for typing up the descriptions and all that. And we're literally, it's like back from hiatus.
00:06:23
Speaker
and is We're talking about the same shit. It was like, God damn, we just keep regurgitating. But I guess that's that's just where we're at right now, right? and And we're kind of like in a hold pattern because things are out of
Film Project Milestones
00:06:36
Speaker
our hands. And so we are waiting on others to work on their end.
00:06:40
Speaker
and But it it is so like, we're still so busy. And there's still so much to consider that it still feels really fresh, even though maybe it kind of isn't, at least in updating.
00:06:52
Speaker
And one thing I'll say is, like, it feels like... um you know it's like we were I think I even put in here, it's like we were like punching out a rock. We were like car like carving out a mountain with our fist.
00:07:05
Speaker
And it's like we finally like carved the mountain, but now it's like, finish it. you know It's like now you've got to put the decorations on or you know build the house on top of the mountain or whatever the fuck.
00:07:16
Speaker
you know It's like we tilled the land, and we got everything ready to go, and now it's like, yeah. is it It's like we did that's just beginning. you know It's just like everything is just beginning again.
00:07:27
Speaker
yeah And I've just been reflecting on it a lot because it it just feels like just ah this past like the past couple months have been like so many different kind of like milestones in the film in a sense.
00:07:43
Speaker
yeah Yeah. And then there's just been a lot of like things that have been going on with that. Like in the last episode... We didn't talk too much because... Yeah, apparently I passed passed out because I definitely blacked out before the meeting ended.
00:07:57
Speaker
yeah I remember just like trying to pull you onto the futon because you were like sleeping on the floor, like holding Zoe.
00:08:07
Speaker
Yeah, and I was like, oh shit. And then I and then yeah i was like, i i was like oh fuck, I gotta to get him on the fucking bed at least. Oh, so that's how I ended up on the food. I was like, man, I was all snuggled up on there. Thank you, buddy. That's very kind of you, man. I'm sorry. yeah it's ah It's just, you know. Dad mode just takes over. With the kids, man.
00:08:24
Speaker
Oh, I. You know, it just wears you out. They take a lot of work. I don't envy you at all, dude. You. you did You were like, I want to do everything on hard mode, man. Like, you know, you have a one-year-old and a newborn. and One-year-old and a one-month-old.
00:08:39
Speaker
Yeah, I don't try to make it harder on myself, but somehow that those are always the paths I take. I mean, the only nice the nice thing is it'll eventually become like easier because right they'll start developing a lot closer to each other.
00:08:55
Speaker
That's what I figure. like They'll grow up. like best friends hopefully you know because they'll be essentially the same age like a year's not that much far apart yeah and definitely and and like once you know like once Sophia's done with diapers and is like eating normal food like Sylvia will just be right there right like a couple of months behind yeah Like, cause like you'll be able to match them up. Like, well, it'll probably build a potty train at the same time. Cause like, yeah, she's behind like a year, but.
00:09:25
Speaker
And then also use that as maybe an example, like, Hey, this is what this one's doing. Check it out. Yeah. One of the nice things is, is clothes. Just just ah pass them on down.
00:09:37
Speaker
Hand-me-downs. And then same thing with the diapers. Literally, you know, like the extra diaper is like, well, here now you get these number twos to use. are yeah Well, right now it's still newborn, but yeah and then yeah that's the nice thing. Yeah, because by the time Emma was born, Luke was four.
00:09:55
Speaker
So it was like Two completely different worlds. But that's way nicer, dude. Because you could be like, alright, kid, you go play. I'm going to tend to this one. Yes, exactly. ah It's not like you know he could at least feed himself. you know He could eat cereal or ramen or nuggets or whatever the fuck he eats. Yeah, this one, I mean, once they both start going off, it's just... yeah there I mean, it breaks down real quick. They're both still on the bottle. Like, well, Sophia's probably eating a little more baby food, right? She eats a lot of... Well, she's eating solids now.
00:10:22
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. But, I mean... It's just hard, man. yes It's hard. Once once one cries and and then they trigger each other on top of that. And when they're both going off, that's when it's hard.
00:10:34
Speaker
if one's If one's like... ah calm and you know doing their own thing, then it's it's not bad because you can still focus on one kid at a time. But when you have to divide your time, it's like triage. That's what I keep thinking.
00:10:46
Speaker
yeah It's just triage. Like, okay, who seems the most desperate? Because that's the one who gets treated first. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and now hopefully that will just
Podcasting as a Personal Journal
00:10:56
Speaker
get easier and easier. But it's kind of it's just rough. I mean, it's it's like having twins, right? like Well, that's what they call them, Irish twins. Irish twins, yeah.
00:11:05
Speaker
So, I mean, and that's another reason why it's like, yeah, we keep talking about the same shit, it's like real life or like non-dickhead film life is, it's like really been in the way a lot too. In the way and also um repetitious. I mean, it it is and it isn't, you know, like taking care of kids.
00:11:27
Speaker
You know, you got to feed them, change them, kind of go through the same motions. But of course, they keep it interesting because it's like, oh, what did they nearly kill themselves with this time? Yeah. Or, okay, they pooped past the diapers. So how big of a mess was it this time?
00:11:41
Speaker
yeah So it's that interesting of a change. But, you know, people don't want to hear about that. that I mean, that's not what this podcast is about. No, but, you know, this podcast, I always thought of it, you know, it's like a journal as much as it is a podcast. Yeah.
00:11:55
Speaker
And because I'll probably reference it a lot because I was listening to I haven't listened to Rogan in a long time because he just annoys me. Well, I stopped after he went to Spotify, but then he's back on YouTube. So I think I've checked out one or two episodes since then.
00:12:10
Speaker
And the crappy thing is like he still gets like the best guests. like He can get anyone that he wants on there. Well, yeah. I mean, it's the biggest podcast. Yeah. But he had Tarantino and Roger Avery on.
00:12:21
Speaker
and ah can I interject? Because this is a talking point yeah for our show. Please do. But I do want to send you, because I've been listening to Conan O'Brien's podcast, which Conan, you know, his parents both passed away ah like a week apart. you know yeah That's rough.
00:12:35
Speaker
But um I've been checking out his podcast lately. And he started doing YouTube You save on funeral costs. I knew you were going to make a joke.
00:12:46
Speaker
And he had Harrison Ford. And I want to send you that podcast because I was like, dude, if you don't love Harrison Ford already, you'll love him by the end of that podcast.
Critique of Modern vs. Classic Films
00:12:57
Speaker
He's like the coolest dude that's ever lived. He's, yeah, Harrison. I got to send you that podcast because I didn't finish it, but I was listening to most of it. And, dude, I was just having such a good time. Because Conan, man, that dude's a fucking genius.
00:13:11
Speaker
You know? oh come he's He's, like, so smart and so funny. And just, you know, he's been doing interviews his whole life. So it's just so, like, good to hear. I mean, like, Rogan's fun and entertaining, but...
00:13:25
Speaker
He ain't always keeping up with the conversation. Well, the yeah the Rogan is, he's, it's all guessed. It's all guessed. And also the nice thing about Rogan is like, he's at our level.
00:13:36
Speaker
So it's like, okay, you're asking the questions i need to, I would ask because I'm not quite following. I don't quite understand here yes necessarily. Mm-hmm. Where like Conan though, like he's just, he's kind of like Lex Friedman, you know, like he's able to keep up with his guests and they have this like deeper conversation because they're right there. Well, Conan, like ah Conan is interesting because like always think once he left writing on The Simpsons, it's like that's when you kind of start noticing like, oh, the trend of The Simpsons going down. yeah And it's like, fuck, dude. And like, well, it it it was like that group of writers on The Simpsons at the time.
00:14:14
Speaker
And then those guys all branched off. Then they have an episode with the writers coming back to hang out and talk Oh, really? Yeah, yeah. It's one of the episodes. Yeah, because and I was thinking like, because we watched um the new Treehouse of Horror not that long ago. and Fuck, dude.
00:14:29
Speaker
Well, I... Brutal. It is so bad. Yeah, I mean, you know, The Simpsons is a nostalgia for me, but it's like, man, when was the last time they had anything remotely funny? They had a good episode, like, not that long ago. For me, the good episodes are like, I'm laughing because i i want to.
00:14:49
Speaker
Not because they're actually making me laugh, you know I'm saying? Yeah. yeah um Yeah, because we still watch The Simpsons all the time, like the old Simpsons. That shit's on repeat like at our house.
00:15:01
Speaker
It's <unk>s great. Yeah. And the kids like them, and I'm like, well, at least still you know they'll get an education of what good stuff is. At least I try. but Modern shit, I don't know, man. I sound like such a fucking like asshole, but most new stuff sucks so much. It does.
00:15:19
Speaker
um i don't know if we spoke about this before, but I'm really not watching it any current films. I've just been more interested in the older films, because I've been...
00:15:31
Speaker
Like there was a couple weeks where I just watched all of these new films that were on your Plex. And man, I was just like, this was such a waste of time.
00:15:44
Speaker
Usually I can getting gain something from it. Like, oh, how they do this or what they do here. You know, it's educational to some extent. But sometimes, like, there were just so many. Even the bad movies, which I love watching, you know. Like, well, all obviously, all they usually suck. But, man, this was a new level of suckage.
00:16:02
Speaker
Yeah. that there's The thing I would say is it's it seems like the fun is gone in a lot of movies. Yeah. Which is... Like, the reason why I like watching bad movies is they're fun. Yeah. yeah It's like, you don't have to like... You know, I'm not watching Tarkovsky. I'm not watching... film has to be Citizen Kane. Yeah, you know, I'm not watching...
00:16:25
Speaker
La Aventura where I'm like, oh wow, the meaning and the metaphor and the the composition of the film with the sound and the the way the camera moves and the yeah frame is like, everything is meticulous and it's gorgeous and you can just stare at the frames and dissect everything and you're like, wow, you know, you watch, but you watch Return of the Living Dead and it's like, this movie fucking rocks, dude. This shit is punk rock to the fucking max. Like, you don't got to break it down that much, but, yeah but you know, it it does give me a whole new appreciation for those films, and that's why I've been going to a lot of the older films, like classic films I haven't seen, but I've heard about, for instance, Cat People.
00:17:06
Speaker
Which one? Well, the original. Because there's... There's a remake, right? There's like four Cat People movies. Well, I only want to see the original. There's like a one from the 40s. Yeah, that's the one.
00:17:17
Speaker
Where she thinks she's a cat. Yeah, I want to watch that. That one's really good. But, you know, because then I watched him, I'm just like, Jesus Christ. Like, Karen put on Memories of Murder.
00:17:29
Speaker
Bong Joon-ho. Yeah. Made in 2007, I think. Something like that. Sounds about right. And dude, that film, it was just like, this is what I need to spend my time on. You know, because even that film, you don't have like the awesome thing about great films like that is if you don't want to delve that deep, you don't have to You can just kind of sit and enjoy it and appreciate just how amazing it is.
00:17:55
Speaker
Where you don't have to dissect it. Those are the films that it's like, okay, you're going to probably rewatch these a few times in your life. Yeah. like I always think about that. It's like, if i'm am I wasting time watching The Shining again? It's like, fuck no yeah I learned something new every time I watch The Shining or Doctor Strange Love, just to bring Kubrick up. Every time I watch a Kubrick film, I'm learning something new. I'm catching something or I'm just feeling the way. i One thing is I really want to start getting into David Lean, like um Bridge Over River Kwai. That was a good one.
00:18:30
Speaker
Yeah. Dr. Zhivago and... I've seen that. Lawrence Arabia. Oh. like um those are and He did those three films back to back to back. No shit. Yeah.
00:18:44
Speaker
Wow. I think it was Bridgewater, Ruroquai, Lawrence Arabia, and Dr. Zhivago. Well, the guy from um Sunset Boulevard. ah billy Billy Wilder? ah No, the lead actor.
00:18:56
Speaker
Oh, yeah, yeah. um He's the lead in Bridge, I'm pretty sure. That actor. um Okay. Because I had never seen him before. Like, Sunset Boulevard was the first film I've seen him in.
00:19:07
Speaker
And then I saw that, i was like, oh, shit, that's that one guy. And he's a total asshole. But he's able to pull it off because of, you know, the quality of the actor and, you know, how he's able to, the screen presence. Yeah.
00:19:17
Speaker
Yeah, because I've never seen Lawrence of Arabia, and I've never seen those films, and it's like... Well, that's on our list. And the thing is, like you always see the fucking screenshots, like because I'm always on the film. like I'm on like every film subreddit. Well, not every. There's probably a lot.
00:19:32
Speaker
But I'm on quite a few. yeah um And I got on cine shots. And I'm always like, half the fucking posts are like, Lawrence Arabia. well that's a beautiful film.
00:19:43
Speaker
Or Dr. Zhivago and stuff like that. I'm like, what happened? Like, every shot, like, I was watching. I can tell you what happened. Filmmaking got easy. It did. It got easy. And the other thing, too, is like.
00:19:59
Speaker
i think people just, like the style changed and people just grew into it and didn't. Yeah. so't They don't care. Like people like new movies. Like a lot of people like new movies. Oh, I do.
00:20:12
Speaker
And I don't really understand. Like I hate close-ups. No, but know that is. And the movie close-ups. Yeah. yeah But that that no, that is very true because I've been thinking about that too. It's just, if you look at the decades, you can see the language of filmmaking evolving and the styles and the trends of the approach.
00:20:30
Speaker
You know, like now cinematography has a very certain... approach, especially the lighting, all these films are lit the same, very similar, and the editing really stand out to me. Like lighting and editing with modern films really stand out. Like they all kind of have that same muted type of lighting that's trying to be more grounded and real.
00:20:52
Speaker
And then the editing's really fast-paced and, you know, kind of kind of cutting on this faster tempo. Where, like, you know, i one of the older films I saw was ah ah Blood and Black Lace.
00:21:04
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, And just seeing the lighting in that film, it was like, what's this light for? I don't know. it just looks fucking amazing, and I love it. There's no reason why a light should be behind her lighting up the fog, and it's just this big, bright light to light up the background.
00:21:21
Speaker
But goddamn, if it just doesn't look amazing and it just adds to it. And it's like, oh yeah, we don't actually have to be realistic in the approach. We can just be a little surrealist with the lighting and that's amazing. And I'll say, I think I heard, I heard, so this isn't me saying this. I ripping this off from Reddit and this, I was reading a cinematography thread and someone was talking about ah why they hate modern cinematography.
00:21:47
Speaker
And they were saying like the mainstream films are just doing like the safe thing over and over again. And the indie films are only going for the best shots, but their best shots suck. That's pretty fair. I wouldn't even say best shot. But but they what they meant by best shot was like they they they set up this like super elaborate like cool shot where it's like, the sun's going to light through the window and do this.
00:22:12
Speaker
But then it ends up like not working or making any sense. or It's just like they did the shot for the sake of the shot. Where like... When you're going for that style, like that giallo, or like and in the case of like Blood and Black Lace, yeah it which is like one of the early giallo films, it's like they were just painting with the frame. Yeah, right like definitely.
00:22:38
Speaker
And know when you watch like a movie like The Substance, which I appreciate, but also at the same time, is like I don't know about the cinematography. eat Well, it's just... I was just thinking it's so fun because we were just talking about this um when we were working a little earlier.
00:22:54
Speaker
And it's like, the substance is just... It's just a constant rip-off of Kubrick films. like There is a definitely strong... If you've ever seen like this the the shot comparisons... Especially for The Shining, right?
00:23:06
Speaker
The Shining in 2001, big time. Yeah. um Well, yeah, The Shining is like a... But it's like... i think It's nice because it's at least an acknowledgement that we're trying to bring back art to films. Is that crazy to say? like I don't know. No, I don't think so at all. And that's one thing I did appreciate about the substance is you could tell there are...
00:23:33
Speaker
paying homage to all of it you know like it was like yes this is the shining yes you are seeing that it was like okay you know it wasn't like no no no this isn't the shining you know we're we're doing something else this is our idea it's like no you're acknowledging that you're giving credit to a movie that you just think is amazing and And that's one thing I appreciate about the substance is, you know, it was just being, I guess, honest. Maybe that for lack of a better word, like it wasn't trying to be bigger than what it was.
00:24:04
Speaker
And that's something I really appreciate because I think that's a lot of modern films are trying to be bigger than they are. And it's like either you're too commercial and you're not saying anything because you're just saying product or you're just trying too hard to be meaningful and you're just not quite...
00:24:20
Speaker
getting anywhere. great You're trying so hard to be intellectual here and it's just pandering all the same. And that's like kind of like the theme of this episode is it's trying.
00:24:32
Speaker
Yeah. They're not actually doing it. Yeah. and that And the thing is is like you it's it's It's kind of brought up. like every People that watched that movie love that movie. like them Of course, it has its... um Well, it might be the best film of the year. and Of course, it has people that don't like it. I mean, that's with every movie. But I would say, of course, there are issues.
00:24:56
Speaker
I had issues with the movie. I don't think it's perfect. i don't think it's great. i thought it was just really good. Um, and you know, I, I think it's like a super solid seven out of 10.
00:25:07
Speaker
And if you can make a seven out of 10, like ah you did on my rating, like you're great. Yeah. Like I'm a person that thinks fives are great. Cause fives are like, you know, like your average, like, and then, you know, watched the smile films and I was like, they're like fives or sixes.
00:25:24
Speaker
Yeah. Um, and maybe Maybe they're both sixes. Because I feel like one and two are about the same. But I really like the concept. It's like almost like... it ah I think I like two a little more.
00:25:37
Speaker
it's like i like two more than one. um Because I think they were they didn't spend the whole movie... trying to like do the insidious thing or not the sinister thing where it's like sitting on the conference room with Gomer Pyle or whatever. can't remember the actor's name. Oh, D'Onofrio. Yeah. Vincent D'Onofrio. And it's just like, well, you see, but cool. He's been around for centuries. Let me explain the plot for 45 minutes and smile one. Right. It's like you haven't been watching the movies. Have you? That's how the goal gets you. Yeah.
00:26:14
Speaker
Oh, I didn't realize that.
Filmmaking Challenges & Reflection
00:26:17
Speaker
That's things I hate about that. only thing I hate is like, how dumb do you think we are? like Very. it's like and and it's like and then But then you watch stuff and people are like, long with long legs. i remember i was like shitting on people on Twitter, which I should stop doing. People, you know, I should be nicer.
00:26:36
Speaker
But people were like, man, that ending was so unpredictable. I'm like, what's wrong with you? That was my biggest issue with the movie was I knew exactly where it was going the whole time. i Like with Knives Out, I knew exactly what was happening. I was begging the film to like make me like not right yeah because it was so obvious.
00:26:54
Speaker
And it's just laid into the obviousness harder and harder. And you're just like, God damn, dude, it's like eating fucking paste. Do you think you were being harder on long legs, though? Because I know for myself, I set a pretty high bar.
00:27:07
Speaker
And I don't know if it did anything egregious. and No, it didn't do anything egregious. But at the same time, it was I was like...
00:27:19
Speaker
Of course, this is... You set this up in the like the second scene. like I knew exactly what where everything was going. But is that such a... but i mean, aren't you supposed to set it up? Yes, but... if you so I don't know. It just felt so obvious that I was hoping that it wasn't the obvious thing.
00:27:37
Speaker
Yeah. like Maybe that's my issue. were you know what Maybe this is the root of the problem. is that Films became so much about subverting your expectation that you're so that you become used to it.
00:27:50
Speaker
And... When it doesn't subvert your expectation and it's just your expectation, you feel a little let down. Because so many so much of like modern film, like I think like since M. Night Shyamalan, when everything had to be a twist.
00:28:05
Speaker
Yeah. Remember after Sixth Sense, every fucking movie had a goddamn twist? Well, still his. like even like It's not like, oh, we have to solve a mystery. It's like... Well, twist out of nowhere. Like who fucking. I mean, who are we to talk? Yeah, I know. I mean, that's the thing is we, we, this is how we, you know, grew up telling the story. And it's like, Dickhead is like, the writing is like the education of our filmmaking, like experience.
00:28:35
Speaker
Like, it's like we made a movie on training wheels. We're still on trading wheels. Exactly. the c craots yeah That's what I mean. It's like we we didn't have like necessarily the confidence and the knowledge to be able to like try to strike out and do something. that Because we were so in over our head the entire time. If we hadn't.
00:29:01
Speaker
Because I think about that all the time. it's like I think it was more innocent than that. We were just trying to make a fun movie, I think. We are, we are, and we did. um We try to add a little bit of spice.
00:29:13
Speaker
But, i mean, you know, I bet if we if we could go back now and we were like had to make the same movie, things would be a lot different.
00:29:26
Speaker
Even in the writing stage, I know. i think the writing would just be tighter, but I don't know. I think there's also stuff that we've talked about where it's like, oh, yeah.
00:29:36
Speaker
Why don't we just do this? like yeah I always think about how we we talked about how... why didn't we just have Remember how it used to be like Jennifer just would wake up and everyone was dead?
00:29:47
Speaker
Yeah. Why didn't we do that? like That's a fucking brilliant idea. That's what I want to do. Yeah. out of it That's brilliant. It's like fucking completely brilliant. Yeah. like Instead, we over-convoluted the story by like, he takes her home. But then I was watching it again and I was thinking like...
00:30:03
Speaker
okay, there's some they're so there's some poetry here where it's like, you know, he brings her in over the threshold, like carrying her the way he does. and yeah, definitely. Right, it's like, oh, we're bringing the bride, my new bride home, you know, like, you know, lay her in bed, but it's like gross twisted this to it.
00:30:19
Speaker
Yeah. was like, okay, that's sweet, that's cool. We we we did something, but I was just thinking like, damn, man, like, Like, you know, like if we just. Well, I mean, with that and specific part, you know, I thought that would be the better approach just because i knew would be too hard to do a party scene and too hard to be consistent with um continuity. That's the thing. So it's like, okay, let's do post.
00:30:45
Speaker
The thing was, is there was, there was so much that was going to be too hard. And it was just like concessions on concessions. Well, I think we chose the harder path though, too.
00:30:58
Speaker
We did. Like having an actual party scene and then actually having him be a next door neighbor. Like, you know, I think that's the harder sell. It is.
00:31:09
Speaker
um But, you know, it's like ignorance is bliss. Like, yeah you know, in hindsight, it's like it would have been so much easier to just yeah have the one location or that have the whole all the film in there yeah in that spot.
00:31:24
Speaker
And just have dead bodies that you and I could just dress up in the costume and, you know, put blood on us and hopefully no one notices the difference in the body shape. And also it's like, just lay there and don't move.
00:31:36
Speaker
Yeah. Okay. You know, like we could have brought people in for that. Yeah. It's, you know, it's like the things you don't know until you don't, until you, you know, until you know them. It's like, yeah.
00:31:48
Speaker
But to get back onto any semblance of... Well, yeah. So you were talking about um Joe Rogan and you saw Quentin Tarantino and it was for the his his co-host on his podcast? Yeah. So Roger Avery.
00:32:01
Speaker
Do you know who Roger Avery is? No, but I've heard the name. So he's a filmmaker that like worked with Quentin at the video store. Okay. You know when Quentin was like... Quentin worked at a video rental place.
00:32:13
Speaker
for years. And that's kind of where he started getting into the film industry education. Yeah. Well, um, so they had like, there was like a crew of them, right? It was like, there was a kind like, it's so weird how much like, like us, it kind of seems like where it's like these people met at work and they became friends and they talked about making movies together. It's like, well, it'd be cool if we could make a movie together.
00:32:37
Speaker
Yeah. And then, you know, like they wrote true romance and, and i'm like then they But then they kind of had like a falling out because they wrote Pulp Fiction together, but Tarantino took his name off of it. Oh, he did? Yeah.
00:32:49
Speaker
So Roger Averill co-wrote Pulp Fiction. yeah That's why he won the Oscar for it. They both won the Oscar. And now they're doing a podcast together? Yeah. they You know, they grew older and they kind of like reconnected and became friends again because they were always friends.
00:33:04
Speaker
Because I was like, dude, the greatest thing we did was Pulp Fiction. But like, they're, you know, young kids that like get fame and fortune thrust onto them and coke. Yeah. Yeah, lots of it. It's funny, on the podcast, they talk about how on the video store, they had a customer that would just pay in like rocks of Coke.
00:33:20
Speaker
And he would just come in and like slam like a baseball fist rock of Coke. And he would just take a bunch of movies. And they were just like, yeah okay, whatever, dude. No shit. Yeah. And they're talking about how they do like a cheese grater. And they're like creating the Coke.
00:33:36
Speaker
I think I heard that's a good stuff is when it's like compact. Well, that's like pure. I really don't know. It's like the purest form is my, is my understanding. I mean, don't know that much about Coke. Yeah. It's like, I don't know about that shit. I, well, can't talk about that.
00:33:50
Speaker
But I was listening to the podcast and, you know, Tarantino talks about how, when he was working at the video store, like, If whatever for whatever reason, like if he never had made it, if True Romance didn't get sold and Natural Born Killers didn't get sold, and that kind of was what got him to be able to make Reservoir Dogs, um if that never had happened, he was like, I would have perfectly content working at that video store for like the rest of my life. Because, you know, I got to just, he was like, he got to talk to the customers about movies, everything in his life was about film, and that's what he loved.
00:34:24
Speaker
was thinking about like how dangerous... Comfort can be. Oh, yeah. Look at me. I've been at my same job for almost 20 years now. Yeah, and I was thinking about that. I was like. And you know what's funny? Because at my job, I was like, man, i ain't going to be here longer than five years. That's the max. Five years, then I'm out.
00:34:39
Speaker
I'm moving on to bigger, better things. Yeah. 20 years later. But I was also thinking, like, there's a nice, there comfort comfortability is nice when you've never known, like, comfort.
Audiobooks & Storytelling
00:34:54
Speaker
cause i was thinking about that when I worked at Kohl's. I had it so easy. I had it so god easy. did a lot more work for us. Yeah. And I was just thinking, like what was I thinking? But then I was like, man, but and maybe that was the push I needed to be like, yeah, this shit sucks. Well, yeah, you also have a lot more opportunity now. you know I mean, you were struggling at Kohl's too.
00:35:16
Speaker
Yeah. But I was just thinking, like dude, it's so easy to get trapped. I guess you're struggling at both. it was just a different struggle. One was financial and the other is time. yeah And I would much rather struggle financially than that.
00:35:30
Speaker
than struggle to have find time in the day. That's, you can't, like, there's no. when you can't buy time. Yeah, exactly. doesn't matter how much money you make. You know, I was like thinking, like, I can't even think about moving closer. Everyone's like, just move closer. like, you can't just, what are you talking about?
00:35:47
Speaker
Move to LA? Are you fucking nuts? Yeah. Living like a one bedroom apartment with my kids? These kids are fucking giants. Yeah, you guys are all giant. You know, was shit, dude. I was, that's like, what the fuck?
00:35:59
Speaker
But I was thinking about that, and I wanted to like kind of like bring that up. Because ah singing because also i listen the I was reading Hollywood.
00:36:11
Speaker
I finished Hollywood with by Bukowski. How do you like that? Because you know i got you that as a gift. Yeah. Because i I have the same book. And, um you know, I know you like to do the audiobooks. Obviously, it just fits your lifestyle more with the driving, the commute.
00:36:29
Speaker
But how do you like that? Because I don't know. I think reading is good. Like, actually, the physical act of reading versus listening. um how how Does that have any resonance for you? does it does it play Or is it just like, yeah, it's just digesting the story the same? Yeah.
00:36:49
Speaker
It only matters if the writing is good. Bad writing can be saved by good narration. Oh, interesting. You could write dog shit, but if Daniel Day-Lewis is reading it to you, you know what? It ain't so bad anymore. yeah Interesting. Yeah. You know, the fox jumped over the hill.
00:37:07
Speaker
because it Because it transforms into more of a performance. It's a performance, right? like And like good narrators get into character, and they're enunciating, and they're getting emotional, and they're ah absorbing the character. Yeah.
00:37:23
Speaker
When I'm listening to a good audio book, I don't even need to hear the Bob said, Richard said, Tom said. It's like I'm just hearing the that character, that narrator's voice do that character, and I just know Do they cut it?
00:37:36
Speaker
Do they cut those, omit those words? are Some do Most don't, and it's bad. i was I started a new book. It was called Red Shirts.
00:37:47
Speaker
It's by John Scalzi. And it seems like, it I was like, oh, i was really into it at first. Like Star Trek? rich yeah Yeah, yeah. It's like a parody of that. Oh, cool. And like each, it's like, um at least I only got like a couple, like an hour into it. And then I turned it off because i was like, I'm going to fucking brains out.
00:38:03
Speaker
Yeah. Because i was like, okay, it's a Star Trek parody. It's read by Will Wheaton. Oh, cool. And was like, okay, cool. How can this be wrong? Fuck up. And I was like, oh, God, no, stop. Turn it off.
00:38:15
Speaker
Because everything was like... And that the two main characters have like similar sounding names. they're like It's like Azeem and Adam or something like that. yeah And like the whole book is like, hey there, how you doing, Adam said.
00:38:27
Speaker
I'm doing fine, Azeem said. John said. ein said Azeem said. John said. Adam said. And I was like, all I heard was Sed. Sed, Sed, Sed, Sed. Is Sed a character? And I was like, Saeed? Sed is baby. Sed's dead.
00:38:42
Speaker
But yeah, so like good narration really transforms a book. But good writing, you want to read. um it's just It's just hard to find time for it. Oh, yeah. Absolutely. um Because it it does take a lot time. But yeah, I finished Hollywood.
00:38:56
Speaker
um I love that that, by the way. it's because it's Awesome. Because I really like memoirs slash biographies. And that's essentially what it is. Yeah. All all of Bukowski's books are are essentially kind of like a memoir.
00:39:10
Speaker
Yeah, because i was I was just like, oh, it's just like it was so funny because I've been on a biography kick right now. i just I just got off of it because I started something at some other. I've been listening to podcasts. Well, yeah, you heard the Al Pacino memoir. yeah I was like, oh, that's awesome. Yeah, did Al Pacino, Joe McHale, Lauren Graham, Norm.
00:39:30
Speaker
Although I don't know if Norm quite counts. Yeah. Yeah, I'm pretty sure he didn't fuck Bernie Madoff. I was trying to listen to that, but I couldn't get it to work on the ah Plex, man. i don't know what's going on.
00:39:43
Speaker
We can look at it, but it's... The rape-a-thon. And was just like, fucking Norm. Only Norm could get away with shit like this. In Norm's voice too, huh? Yeah, because he's reading it.
00:39:56
Speaker
And he's like, and then Bernie Madoff was raping me and then I was raping him and then he was like, I was like, well, we can stop raping each other for a minute. Maybe we can figure something out. And I told him, convinced him that raping was actually gay, not a power play. But what I really knew was I was the one in power.
00:40:13
Speaker
When I was doing all the raping.
00:40:19
Speaker
hard jokes to land. Because he talk because he goes to jail for hey ah ordering a hit on Dave Attell. Dave Attell.
00:40:31
Speaker
Because David Tell is trying to bang Sarah Silverman, and he's in love with Sarah Silverman. And there's this funny-ass line where he's like, he breaks it because he sells his soul to the devil, so Sarah Silverman will love him. Yeah, because Sarah Silverman and David Tell actually, i think they dated for real. Yeah. yeah So, ah he has to give the devil two paps blue ribbons. Yeah.
00:40:53
Speaker
And his soul, too. And then Silverman will love him. And then Devil's like, you and I couldn't make Sarah Silverman love you. And he's like, and then the Devil doesn't have enough money to buy the beers. And Dorm's like, I just want my ever-loving soul back.
00:41:09
Speaker
but And he bus he breaks into the server woman's house and he's like, yeah and she's like, you know, I got to get out of this town. There's someone stalking you. And he's like, no, no one's stalking you. I've been watching you all day.
00:41:24
Speaker
That's pretty funny. its like I was like, guess this book's going to literally kill me because I was like laughing. I was just going to drive off a cliff. like Yeah. it just like and It just gets crazier and crazier because the ghostwriter becomes a character. Yeah. because he don't want to spoil too much for it, but Norm ends up getting into a lot of trouble with gambling debts.
00:41:44
Speaker
So he has to finish his book because his book is to give a million dollars once they turn it into the publisher. Yeah. So he starts stalking and living in the ghostwriter's house. And then the ghostwriter becomes Norm MacDonald. Yeah.
00:41:57
Speaker
Yeah. I won't spoil you. Yeah, dude. I gotta. Dude, I. That's one. I want to spoil it. That I want to hear on the audiobook. I want, yeah. You through Norm. Yeah, reading it would be awful. Yeah. Because it's like, unless you hear Norm's voice as you're reading it, you would be like, does it get sold at quite the same? Yeah. Because he always says Adam Eget, the guy that's. Oh, yeah. Yeah.
00:42:18
Speaker
Adam Eget is his little bitch sidekick who gets arrested for murdering a bunch of teenage boys in Canada. And then they take get breakfast. He just confesses to more murders.
00:42:30
Speaker
So like the Canadians are closing all their books and. because Because Adam Edick just keeps confessing. He's like, I don't know what's going on, Norm. They just keep bringing me food and I keep telling I'm killing these kids.
Podcasting & Filmmaker Connections
00:42:41
Speaker
and then well he's ah and And then while he's arrested, yeah a boy gets murdered, and everyone on set cheers because Adam E. gets free. boy was killed. Adam E. gets free.
00:42:55
Speaker
think Yeah, dude. Oh, God. Norm fulfills a make-a-wish for a kid, and he's like, i don't really want to go to SNL, Norm. I want kill seals. Yeah. kids so he takes this kid with cancer kill seals and it cures him.
00:43:12
Speaker
It cures his cancer.
00:43:15
Speaker
And he's like, we can't tell the
00:43:21
Speaker
It's like, fuck, dude. Sorry. I got to check. That book is just so all over the place. That's why i got to check it. It's like, how do you rein that in? how do you How do you keep it all together? I mean, he's like, God is definitely white.
00:43:32
Speaker
Yeah.
00:43:37
Speaker
because he meets He meets God. He meets Satan. like you know it's like He's Dante then, huh? That's what was saying. it's like It was like the mightiest adventure where it's like it's the craziest shit that keeps happening. like Yeah. like People are just getting killed and it's just like it's funny.
00:43:56
Speaker
Chris Farley's like shitting out tomatoes out of his ass because he's like a walking salad bar. And I'm like you but but and the thing is it's like what's real? Yeah. Right? like Because it's like it's like it pretends that it's all real.
00:44:10
Speaker
But yeah, let's the we haven't even gotten to the first bullet point. I know. Thank God. I was about to get up and grab that. um I need some more Glenn Morangi. We got to get on topic. Okay. Quentin Tarantino.
00:44:23
Speaker
Yes. So I did talk about that a little bit. um And we'll probably talk it a little more. But yeah, you know.
00:44:31
Speaker
roger was talking and Roger Avery, he did a but a few movies and he writes a lot of films. like He wrote Silent Hill. Does he do a lot of um TV shows? I think he does he did a little bit. Maybe I'm thinking of a different Avery.
00:44:45
Speaker
And he wrote Killing Zoe. He directed Killing Zoe. Have you ever seen that? Killing Zoe? My dog? Killing Zoe. No. um It's like a bank heist movie. It's...
00:44:57
Speaker
It's not bad. It's very much like a Tarantino movie. And it's like ah sound it's like, oh, of course you guys were like friends writing together. like You guys write and sound exactly the same sometimes. Maybe that's why he didn't get as big.
00:45:10
Speaker
Because it was like, oh, you're just ripping off Tarantino. He talks about it on the Rogan podcast. he killed someone in a DUI accident. Shit. And he they were a passenger in his car. Oh, shit.
00:45:21
Speaker
And he went to jail and it destroyed his career. and Really? Because he got a manslaughter charge, yeah. Oh, God. That's depressing, man. Yeah. Oh, shit. Tarantino's laughing at him the whole time.
00:45:34
Speaker
Really? Jesus Christ. All right. Well, that's one to check out. I'll have to check out that episode. Does Tarantino come off as an asshole for that?
00:45:45
Speaker
um Not really?
00:45:49
Speaker
Tarantino, I think he's somebody. it's like He's got this dark sense of humor like we do. Yeah. Well, I don't know if I would laugh if he murdered someone. ah You know, if time had gone by, maybe.
00:46:02
Speaker
Maybe I'd do it off air.
00:46:06
Speaker
Definitely off air. But, you know, Tarantino is know like so fucking crazy person. Yeah, is. But I wanted to get back into... Wait, what was your point about the podcast?
00:46:17
Speaker
So, it's like... They talk about like doing the podcast, how um how important it is. like Because their podcast is essentially they watch three movies. Yeah, because you have show notes that talk about that, in case you forget. Yeah, and um it's really interesting because I was thinking like...
00:46:36
Speaker
you know A lot of the shit they're saying, it's like yeah it's true for us. like We do the Criterion. The reason why we haven't done a Criterion episode is we like to watch the movies together. Also, because Next is Psycho and you wanted to do an extra special episode. wanted to, but I'm like... I would love to just get back into...
00:46:54
Speaker
i would love to just get back into like Since dickhead's kind of like flowing getting more and more out of our hands. Yeah, I guess slowing down is not the right word. Slowing down for us.
00:47:05
Speaker
Yeah, we finally like have people working on it that aren't us. Yeah. um Because we're we've done it like, we've brought this baby up as far as we can, right? Like now we need to get... Yeah, like we worked on it today and it was literally just 30 minutes. And it was like, okay, I'll just do the the rest on my own because...
00:47:23
Speaker
yeah There's not a whole lot to talk about right now. I mean, literally, it's just, do we like what someone is showing us or are giving us to listen to? And it's like, no. Okay, let's tell them. No, keep working. Yeah, and then they do give us something that we like, and then we're like, well, can we make it better?
00:47:39
Speaker
say Okay, what keep working. Yeah, what more do we need? And then you you know we were like talking about how like the last like big thing that we have to do, and this is part of the show notes, is It's just going through and like making sure that we're covering all the bases like we have to go through. Like like you said, like does this shot need stabilization? Does it not need stabilization? Are we happy with it?
00:48:00
Speaker
Do we just need to add a 5% stabilization so like it's not as rough? like Because I don't want it to be completely still. Because then the like no because then it's it's wrong, right?
00:48:13
Speaker
Yeah. like You need some camera
Artistic Decisions in Filmmaking
00:48:16
Speaker
movement. When discussing stabilization, it's like, well, you know. it It can look bad real quick.
00:48:24
Speaker
You know, so it's like, well, there's no way to fix it. So let's go low stabilization and maybe that's it. Right. It's like, just like, but then that's like a thing that we have to like look and test and play. Yeah. And then it's also like, well, just the stabilizing, it ain't working. So let's just say, fuck it.
00:48:40
Speaker
Go with the camera shake. Cause that adds to the, I don't know. It adds to the film. But it also doesn't detract. It adds the sincerity of the film because you know someone was there with the tripod holding it or yeah no hand holding it. you know Very few things are like perfectly still in movies, even if they're on a... Well, a lot of modern films are pretty damn.
00:49:03
Speaker
like um I think we shared a clip of a Knock at the Cabin, the M. Night Shyamalan movie. And I think I sent it to you or you sent it to me where he has this insane rig that's moving around and it's this camera on this arm. Yeah. That's perfectly smooth and it's doing all these crazy camera movements.
00:49:24
Speaker
And you know, you watch the film and it's like, yeah, all of that shit's perfectly smooth. But that's not necessarily us. I don't even think we like that aesthetic of i don't i don't have this like machine smoothness. yeah We like to know that there's a hand behind it and maybe the hand on this take jiggled.
00:49:43
Speaker
the tripod arm a little too much and you got a little bit of a wiggle in there. Because the thing is like it adds to the motion. It just feels real. I guess. Yeah. Like the problem is it's like I don't want the film to feel so robotic. That's why I'm like, I'm very hesitant to do like a lot of digital zooms.
00:50:03
Speaker
Yeah. Cause can, you can feel it. It's artificial. It just doesn't, it doesn't have that natural, like there's no one on that actual lens zooming. You can feel it. I don't know what it is. It's just too smooth. It's the uncanny Valley. It's like too smooth. Something about it just feels unnatural. It's just too smooth. You know, like,
00:50:22
Speaker
There's just a jerkiness, right? To movement of of the human hand. and or yeah Unless you're a surgeon. or even just like a slight hesitation. or Exactly. like yeah they're Like even with the smoothness, there's like a little lull.
00:50:35
Speaker
It's not as the same consistency the with the the zoom in. you know there's right It got a little slower here for like half a second and then it sped up to finish the continuity. you know There's just that little hesitation there. And like, i guess if you are crazy, you could maybe like try to artificially replicate that.
00:50:56
Speaker
But it's like, well, that's what I want to do. But at some point it's like, is it worth the fucking effort? Like our time is as valuable as like, you got to really sell me that this is going to increase. Like I always think about things and like, how much are we increasing the betterness?
00:51:14
Speaker
and ah to be lack of a better term. Well, we've done some artificial Zooms that were pretty damn too. Oh, We have some really nice ones. And I'm not saying that they're bad. But I'm saying so you sometimes you can overdo it.
00:51:25
Speaker
And it's like it's like everything in life, right? It's a balance. You got to find the balance. Yeah. um Because, you know,
00:51:36
Speaker
it's it's it's too easy to overdo something. Because you have to then reflect on it as a whole. Yeah.
00:51:47
Speaker
And that's what's tough. like and I think that's the toughest thing about editing. It's like when you're editing, you're like cutting like literally 24th of a second at a time sometimes. Yeah.
00:51:57
Speaker
And then you're like, wait a second. When you watch a scene all that together, that 24th of a second is nothing. It literally did nothing. But when you're watching it in that minute two-second window, it's everything.
00:52:12
Speaker
But in in the 90 minutes, you don't fucking feel it. You don't see it. I mean, you're hoping that it all builds up into ah into this cohesiveness.
00:52:24
Speaker
And you just you're just going for like the the smoothness. That's one thing I fucking hate about editing. like editing You feel a lot of modern editing. Yeah. And I hate that.
00:52:36
Speaker
I don't want to feel the cut. I want it to feel like as immersive and natural as possible. That's why I'm a big fan of ah cutting as little as possible.
00:52:48
Speaker
Because you just then just are washed into the scene. Discord message from Adam. yeah um Speaking of. So what were you saying about Avery and Tarantino?
00:52:59
Speaker
just Tarantino makes fun of his buddy for killing someone? no No, that's only a small part of it. It's like a three a half hour podcast. No, well, let's let's, because I'm not that fucked up. So what was your point about it? Oh, the point was just like,
00:53:13
Speaker
How, you know, even these guys who are professional filmmakers, like, they have to, like, schedule time to hang out with their friend to talk about movies. Yeah. And the point that I was trying to get into is, like, we have to, like, schedule our time to hang out and do this. And this is, like, our, you know, like, you schedule playdates for the kids. This is how we where you schedule playdates for Playdates for the adults, yeah. Right? It's just as much as as of a playdate for us as well.
00:53:39
Speaker
Like, the kids are out there playing right now and... Thank God. That's the good thing about kids. Just put them together and they'll entertain themselves. Yeah. that's what I was telling Katie, like I was like, dude, it's going really cool in a couple years when they're all just like out there playing and like doing whatever the fuck kids do.
00:53:56
Speaker
you know Playing games and watching movies. like when When I was a kid, we like had close group of friends like that. But... you know I don't talk to them no more. Well, they're dead. Oh, yeah, that that group. Unless I'm a medium. It'd be a little tough.
00:54:13
Speaker
um Maybe I could see them in a seance. But you know I was just thinking, damn. But it's also just like it's nice to just get there and talk about the shit that matters.
00:54:24
Speaker
And then like if it can benefit... the film or just our careers going forward or like get awareness or help somebody. It's like, dude, that's just icing on the cake, you know? Fuck.
00:54:36
Speaker
That's the, that's what's really nice. And they were talking about how when they watch, like, and this is why I wanted to bring up like psycho in the cartoon. Cause Tarantino was like, I watched dress to kill a hundred times. Like I've seen it a million times, but when I watched it with Roger, like it was like a new experience of seeing the film.
00:54:53
Speaker
Hmm. It's like, we've I've seen Psycho, but it's like, we'll watch it together and we'll be like, hey, do you see that? Did you see that cut? or like and then it's like then it's kind of giving us like a new viewing experience on a film we've both seen so much.
00:55:04
Speaker
And that's cool, too. yeah sir And then there's films on the frontier and we haven't even seen. it's like yeah And i just like you know I just kind of miss just like hanging out and watching movies with you, buddy. you know i was thinking But it's hard right now. Yeah, that's what I was saying. it's like It's just hard. I mean, it's hard enough to just meet up, work on the film.
00:55:21
Speaker
Yeah, and I was just like, damn. i it was just getting me like... you i wrote like... ah you know what this is. like You wrote a lot, man. So we got to get through it because you wrote you wrote some deep stuff there.
00:55:32
Speaker
Yeah. So um there's no questions. It's just writing. Let's just get into at least. and so There's a couple of things I wanted to cover that I didn't even write down too. um One thing was i ah I was listening to Lauren Graham's audio biography.
00:55:47
Speaker
She's like an actress that was in like Gilmore Girls and oh Bad Santa. Okay. Yeah. She was the older sister in Gilmore Girls? Yeah, the mom. Okay, I don't know I don't think I've ever seen an episode on Gilmore Girls. Me neither. i just remember two females.
00:56:05
Speaker
I thought they were sisters. Yeah, ah that's kind of like the point. Is that she had her where she was 16. Oh, okay. So they're kind of like growing up together. Yeah. Okay. And, um but she has a a friend that like teaches like a writing class and she kind of gave like I think, and I think it would be, i was, I wanted to give it to you, pass it on to you. It's um called, they call it like the stopwatch method.
00:56:29
Speaker
And it's interesting because like the rule is like you schedule an amount of time, 30 minutes, 15 minutes, an hour, whatever, and you start your stopwatch. right You tell everybody, hey, this is my hour, 30 minutes, my 15 minutes, my five minutes.
00:56:44
Speaker
Fuck off. To sit and write. like Just let me sit and write. And you open up two documents. One's a journal, and then one is the project you're working on. And no matter what, you're writing on one of them. So if you're if you can't think of anything to write on your project, you write in your journal. Hey, I don't know what the fuck I'm writing about.
00:57:01
Speaker
Life sucks. I want to make spaghetti with da-da-da-da. I want to... But so as long as you are writing. It's like, because it's like they're treating it like the gym. Yeah, definitely. Writing is like Yeah, absolutely. right like Writing gets easier the more you do it.
00:57:16
Speaker
Essentially, it's the path. Yeah. Because... Yeah, maybe I don't know about that. I think you get better at it the more you do it. Yeah, well, I think it um for me, it definitely if the more i'm writing, the easier it is.
00:57:32
Speaker
um just because it's like, you're just, it's easier just to actually just sit down and do it because it's like going to the gym, right? Like your first time you do like a couple reps, you're like, ugh. Or just getting there sucks, right? Like once you're there. Yeah, I would say it's more like the gym, like doing that first set maybe sucks, but then once you start like Just getting into it, then you can do the second. of Yeah. And then you get some enjoyment out of it too. Like, oh, ist so man I'm listening to my music. I'm working on the treadmill. I'm being healthy. I'm being good. yeah yeah and then Yeah. And then afterwards, you're like, ah, you know, I did something.
00:58:04
Speaker
um But yeah, so that's the thing. And the thing and the other the other rule is if you can't hit your time, you have to reduce it the next time you do it. Oh, kind of cool.
00:58:15
Speaker
So if you can't. Mine would be one second. Then you would do one second. I turned on the document and then I exited the document. Right. And so it's like so then it's like, oh, I couldn't hit 15 minutes. So I'm going to do 10 minutes tomorrow.
00:58:27
Speaker
And it's like, well, I couldn't do the 10 minutes. I'm five minutes. And then you do five minutes, five minutes, five minutes until then you're like, OK, I'm to try 10 minutes again. And then if you don't hit the 10 minutes and you go back to the five minutes. But then it's like, well, I wrote wrote for five minutes every day for a year. i have a book.
00:58:42
Speaker
Yeah. Right? like You can end up with a book if you write for five minutes every day. Yeah. That's the thing, right? like you Writing is just building upon something. It doesn't go away, right? There's no like, the document's always
Sound Design & Temp Music Issues
00:58:55
Speaker
there. That's the difference between that and the gym, right? It was like. Yeah. Yeah.
00:58:59
Speaker
if you spend five minutes, you still have something to show for it. Whereas the gym, if you stop for a month while you're back to zero. yeah Well, my fucking thing at the gym is like, it makes me hungry, dude. I got to go to Jim's burgers. I always remember what I would work out with Billy.
00:59:12
Speaker
Uh, Billy and I used to go to the gym together. when We worked together. We'd get off work and we'd go to the gym and then we would go get like a bucket of chicken and eat the whole bucket. Or we'd get like 20 fucking junior bacon cheeseburgers. You gotta get that protein. And it was like, damn, dude, I'm fucking hungry. are you hungry? And he's like, yeah, dude, like, let's get like burrito and carne asada fries.
00:59:32
Speaker
Fuck. um But yeah, you know, it's like the key is when you when you got it right, you have to just do it. And it's a muscle. So, you know, I think that's something that's good.
00:59:45
Speaker
um Let's get back into the notes here. Oh, last week. Was it last week? No, it's two weeks ago. um We had a meeting with our our sound team, Adam, Pat, and John.
00:59:59
Speaker
And, well, John wasn't there. um John's working on special effects. like He's like the mixer. he's like the mixer He's like the final mix Adam and Pat are doing the composition and the Foley holy work.
01:00:15
Speaker
And the track was really cool. And the meeting was cool. We got to kind of like go over all the new tracks, the things in the film that we, things that they're doing that we like, things that we don't like.
01:00:27
Speaker
And it's just, it's been an awesome awesome experience working with them. um And today we got some more tracks and some more interesting stuff that we like.
01:00:39
Speaker
And that's been...
01:00:43
Speaker
want hold it Now that Stephen's back, i I can ask him the question. Because I'm talking about the sound. And that's like, the the hardest part is like...
01:00:56
Speaker
you don't really know what, what you want or what you need.
01:01:02
Speaker
Like And that's like the hardest part for me. Cause I, at least with editing, you have what you have. And it's like, here's what you have to work with. But like with the sound, it's like essentially is infinite.
01:01:15
Speaker
Yeah. Anything like they could like, they literally tried. We had like fucking Dracula castle music on one of the scenes is like a test.
01:01:26
Speaker
And it was hilarious. because it But it was like it was it was cool. like The music was cool, but it was so not our film. Well, I think part of the issue with that is the fact that we just don't know enough. like I think we could look at a film for editing, for instance, and we can see the way the cuts are playing out, and we know how we want to see those cuts play out, and we're pretty good on that.
01:01:51
Speaker
But with music, it's just like, Man, I don't what's going to make this song better. i don't know what what it needs. All I know is if it's good or if it's not. And when it's not...
01:02:02
Speaker
It's hard to translate what we want and to say, like well, I think it needs to be more like this. you know We can only use more general terms to create like a mood and idea, but that's not necessarily helpful.
01:02:16
Speaker
and It's just like, okay, it needs to be darker. Well, what the fuck does darker mean? you know Yeah, sharp, louder, it more intense. like These are words that can translate to music, but...
01:02:27
Speaker
Do they really mean anything? And the thing is, like, we... Like, well, I always am translating, like, I want to sound... you know, like, what about something like, you know, this? And I sound a track.
01:02:38
Speaker
And then we get something that is, like, that track. But a little bit different. Yeah. well it's like, well, I didn't want the exact thing. Like, that's the fucking, like, most famous song ever. Like, you fucking serious? Everyone will know immediately...
01:02:51
Speaker
It will immediately call into their head exactly, like, unless they're, you know, like, Helen Keller would even fucking know, right? Like, that that was goddamn, that was fucking Halloween, like. Yeah, and like, with the cinematography, for instance, we can be like, oh, you know what, I want it wide, let's throw a 35 on there. Mm-hmm.
01:03:10
Speaker
And that's like, oh, okay, you want this shot like that. Okay, I got a good idea. Whereas with the music, it's like, can it be faster? Can it be slower? But also it's like. It needs to be a little more slow, you know. and it Less flute.
01:03:24
Speaker
Yeah. More drum. Like, what? I don't know. Yeah, you know, and I think that's that's where that issue is. But also that's when you need to really find the people that understand you and know you.
01:03:36
Speaker
And that's kind of why... And then that's hard. and That's something you've got to work towards. Yeah, and that's what we're working towards with Adam and Pat, and it's like, it's finally starting to, like, things are starting to click. Yeah. Which is really nice, and we've actually been making progress. But also allowing them the freedom to express themselves within it, you know? That's all it is. It's like, dude, I don't want you to just... Because ultimately, you know, we use temp music, and the temp music has been...
01:04:06
Speaker
very uh it has created a bias and ultimately all they're going to end up doing is just recreating the temp music which has happened and it's like no you you need to be able to express yourself here and and you know that that's a hard thing to find in a hard middle ground to reach that's a great point and to bring up on that too is i was talking with stephen about this is We've also been listening that temp music for almost at at least five years.
01:04:37
Speaker
Yeah. If not longer. Because a lot like yeah like one of the first cuts I did, I put temp music in. And a lot of them are the exact same tracks. Yeah, because I think immediately you put temp music in. I don't like to edit to music. i just don't.
01:04:52
Speaker
But then you know leaning into you when you use temp music, I mean, it just recontextualizes the entire edit. And it helps out so much. you know When you have that temp music, you can really elongate.
01:05:05
Speaker
Whereas when if you don't have the temp music, you can't. And I think i could probably do I could probably do silent editing more now that I have more experience. Because at first it was like, God, I don't know if this is too long don't want to that's better. Because, you know, like you say you like that one take.
01:05:23
Speaker
And if you just hold on that one take, well, you don't necessarily get away with that with silent editing. Yeah. You know, sometimes you need that music to kind of fill in the gaps a little bit to kind of keep a certain momentum going.
01:05:36
Speaker
You know, where you can start to really lose that in no music editing. Yeah. so So, you know, it's just a tricky ground. I mean, really, you know, in regards to editing, you just got to it a lot and understand like, okay, this needs to be influenced here by that.
01:05:53
Speaker
This doesn't need that. and And kind of really understand those beats. And I think that's also an issue. like it wouldn't I don't think it'd be an issue if are the entire post-life of Dickhead was less than a year.
01:06:08
Speaker
Because wouldn't have had ted time to be too attached. Yeah. it would have been like, okay, we put this in, we cut it. Okay, this is working, this is working, this is working. Head over the composer, and let's go from here.
01:06:20
Speaker
But but so for us, dude, Rosemary's Baby's been in that fucking movie since day one the edit. But see, one of the worst things about that, though, too, is I don't think we are... I think we're blinded by a lot in the sense that...
01:06:37
Speaker
I think you and I would both agree we're not so attached to the temp music where it has to be that. We're attached the temp music where it has to have that feeling. Exactly. But the problem is, is nothing's giving us that feeling.
01:06:51
Speaker
And then the problem is, is probably only that music might give us that feeling. So then there, you know, we're we're kind of, we're blinded by things. We don't see things very clearly because we're blinded by the bias that we don't think we're blinded by, you know which is worse. Maybe that's what we need to do.
01:07:08
Speaker
We need to find as many tracks that work for Jennifer's theme and send it to them. Like as many different tracks as we can find. So it's like, no, we're not stuck on Rosemary's Baby.
01:07:21
Speaker
We want this. Not just Rosemary's Baby. We want, you know, like with the Twin Peaks, we want something like this, or like this, or like this, or like this, like this. But that's hard. Of course it's fucking hard. You know, that's going through a whole catalog, and it's like, you know, we were discussing time.
01:07:35
Speaker
Yeah. it's like, how can we fit more? ah I mean, maybe you can, because- You have the commute, so you can, but you know, I'm already like, oh, well, i gotta ah I'm going to do that data entry. I'm going to work on the ah ah temp sound.
01:07:50
Speaker
I'm going to start looking at the festivals. like like i can't you know I could say like, yeah, I have the time, but realistically, I'm not going to put in that time, you know? i like, oh, I could listen to this sound trick, or I could just play Magic.
01:08:04
Speaker
Well, you can, what am I going to do? well you can listen to the soundtracks while playing magic. That's true. But I could also listen to the magic music with the sound effects. That music sucks. But you know what I'm saying? Cause like,
01:08:18
Speaker
Like even when we're doing something else while still working, it's still exhausting because there's certain amount of attention that has to be paid. Of course. You know, where it's like, dude, sometimes I just, I don't want to notice anything. I just, I want to zone out.
01:08:34
Speaker
Literally, I just want to be brain dead for a little bit. That's why I do drugs. Exactly, right? It's like they allow you to be brain dead for a little bit. Yeah. Because you just need to hit that switch off. You need to turn the lights off sometimes. Yeah.
01:08:46
Speaker
Because I know when I'm sober, the problem is it's just like there's too much going on. I'm like, well, you know, like I heard about the kids and their diet and what's going on with like life and work and dickhead. What are we going to do? it What are we going to about the fucking Jennifer scene? We haven't found anything. that's like Nothing has gotten even close. like Nothing's even been like a base.
01:09:10
Speaker
yeah like there Nothing has even started to work properly. To even like, it's like, I feel like at least the thing it' like I can say is at least that title, we kind of have something going there.
01:09:24
Speaker
You know what? Richard, we kind of have something going there. But for Jennifer, we I still feel like we're at ground zero. You know what the issue is? I saw Saturday Night and Billy Crystal's in it as one of the characters.
01:09:38
Speaker
And Billy Crystal did harry when Harry met Sally. And he tells Sally, he's like, know what the worst thing about you is you're a low-maintenance, you're a high-maintenance chick that thinks she's low-maintenance.
01:09:53
Speaker
yeah And that's us. We think we're low-maintenance, but we're really high-maintenance dudes. And we wanted to be like... No, you know, do whatever you want. You can have whatever you want. You know, we're just goodnna we just want the feeling.
01:10:05
Speaker
And then as soon as it's presented to us, no, no, no, that's not quite right. That's not quite right. Keep going at it. Keep going at it. You know? it's That's definitely true. um I'm not going to deny that at all. It's definitely true because… That's the scary part, though. It's scary, but it's also…
01:10:24
Speaker
My thing is, I'm not going to get hung up on it. i'll I can let go. um Yeah, but see, my thing too with letting go, this is the low maintenance being high maintenance here. Are the high maintenance being, want to be low maintenance? I don't know.
01:10:39
Speaker
But my thing is, is like I know when it's right. Because you know like for our edit, for for where we were in the editing stage, there were so many parts where it wass just like, ugh. And there are some pills we have to swallow.
01:10:52
Speaker
Because we don't have anything else Yeah, it's just, this is it. yeah But so much of that, and maybe this is where the edit has also fucked us up, is that there were so many things that didn't work that we then made work very well.
01:11:08
Speaker
and Maybe even too well, because I think the movie plays out too fast. So it works a little too well. And that, and so I, I know we can get that with sound. I know we can get that with VFX and I know we can get that with color, but the problem is, is we're not doing that.
01:11:28
Speaker
but You know, we're having other people do it. And it's like, it took us 10 years to get to where we got. Yeah. Yes. We can't expect anyone else to spend 10 years, nor should we want that. I don't want to be 50 years old and be like, well, buddy, we finally got the sound down, but God damn, is it good? And i'm like, yes, it's great.
01:11:48
Speaker
You know, and yeah, I'm sure that can happen. I'm sure we can reach that. That's what I mean, we've talked about this, right? It's like we could. Yeah. It could very easily happen. Like I could. that That was it's been a fear because you're always like, no, it's not going to happen. It's not going happen. I'm like, motherfucker, I know us.
01:12:04
Speaker
I know how it goes. Jagged Knight.
01:12:08
Speaker
That movie should have been done 10, 5 years ago. Yeah, there's no excuse for that one. But I will say with that one, Dickhead has really supplanted the efforts on that. Yeah, well, I mean, it should. It got done first.
01:12:21
Speaker
but Yes, as it should. like The thing is, Dick had done. like you know like We shot Jogging Night like two years after Dick had rapped. Because I got that itch again. i was like, man, i I want to do something. you know what yeah that one That one's going in motion. We know where it's going. It's getting taken care of. Let's do something else now. And yeah you were like, no, Steven, I think that's too early. I think that's too early.
01:12:45
Speaker
yeah because that's why it's just always been like, damn, what? I think I even talked about here, or it's like the surrealness of the idea. Go through some of your notes, man. you You wrote some beautiful shit in there. I was like, God damn. You don't even need to ask me anything. Just read. All right. So then ah VFX has officially begun. Let me just jump through this real quick. Yeah. What do you want to talk about? But I also want you to read what you wrote because you wrote some like poignant stuff that I think is really hear.
01:13:12
Speaker
That's going to be into here more on like the main discussion, I think. Yeah. um The main thing I want to say is for VFX was just figuring out the workflow was a fucking nightmare. Oh, yeah. Can you tell me about that? Like, what did what process did you have to go with Jorge that maybe others will have to consider if they have someone else do VFX? So the thing is, unfortunately, we have a ton of VFX shots.
01:13:37
Speaker
Because we have issues with our actual camera, at the sensor, creating a green rectangle. Yeah, that what I've dubbed the green rectangle or what we've talked about the green rectangle. i mean Or the Bermuda rectangle. The Bermuda rectangle.
01:13:50
Speaker
It just appears and then it disappears. Who knows? Is it there? Is it not there? When you grade it it goes away. When you grade it it comes stands out. Sometimes there's just a line down someone's face. But the thing is, it's always in the same place every time. Yeah, the Vermidule rectangle, don't move. Yeah, so ended being, think, 135 shots in film have shots in the film have And so my first thought was 135 out of how many?
01:14:18
Speaker
I think there's like 230, 220, something like that. Shit. And I remember when when we were looking, we were like, ah, it's going to be like 30, 50 shots. Yeah, know, right? And that's why I'm like, I feel scummy because I'm like, okay, yeah, you know, we said that it was one thing, but it actually ended up, I mean, it was through... don't think you should feel that scummy because we said it was like in 50 to 60% of the shots. Yeah, was going to say... And we said percent. We knew it was an issue, a big issue throughout the whole film and everyone's... And we know we always, we brought up big issue, big issue, big issue.
01:14:54
Speaker
And we said we don't know for sure yet. Yeah, we don't know. Yeah. So put that aside. So the first thing we we thought was, like okay, we're going to do this EXR thing.
01:15:05
Speaker
He was like, okay, i want to do a yeah an EXR. and Which is what? What's the name? EXR is just, it's a file type that just does stills, ah lossless stills. Oh, okay. Like a TIFF, but like it's like a different form of a TIFF, kind of.
01:15:19
Speaker
Okay. um It's for for compositing. Oh. Specifically for like compositing and video effects. ah video effects So i I go through and i'm like, okay, fuck, these are huge files, right? Some of these are like a gig up picture.
01:15:37
Speaker
And how long does that take to render out? It took me, I think, two days of rendering to render the, I did the whole film and ended up rendering all the pictures into a single timeline. oh So, and then I uploaded, I purchased more storage space on Google Drive.
01:15:53
Speaker
I couldn't upload it because it was 176,000 pictures. That was four gigs or four terabytes. and Four terabytes? Yeah. Okay, well, that's about as long as the film is lossless. Yeah. um No.
01:16:08
Speaker
No, it's bigger. No, that's our total footage lossless. It's bigger, yeah. It's a lot bigger. um because ah ah each it like blows up each picture or whatever. like whatever i don' know i don't know what it does, but it's a lot bigger.
01:16:20
Speaker
And so I was like, fuck, how am I going to get this on the drive? Every time I tried, was like, I'll do 10,000 time. And then when I tried to drag and drop 10,000, it just kept crashing Google Chrome. So I had to look and I researched and I found a thing that would sync a folder on my desktop to Google Chrome.
01:16:38
Speaker
And then I ran it and that took four days running nonstop. And then there was a probably about 40,000 errors. Then I had to go back and and re-sync those 40,000 photos.
01:16:53
Speaker
And then that's like a couple that took two days, and then it was all on the drive, and then Jorge was like, hey, this ain't going to work. I was like, you said the EXR was going to work. And he's like, no, I need each shot individual.
01:17:05
Speaker
Yeah, because it was just yeah one consecutive thing, right? Yeah. And I was like, okay, let's go back to the drawing board. But couldn't you put them into their own individual folders, like each shot?
01:17:19
Speaker
Yeah, but it's one frame at a time. Yeah, so you just get like 200 frames, throw them, because that's that one shot. That's a lot of work. Okay. It's just too much work to... You got to do that for 230. Yeah, and then that's through files.
01:17:38
Speaker
yeah um that are gigs saying you can't just drag and drop You drag and drop, and then you wait like an hour. For it to move to the folder. Wow, okay. Right, because then I was like, okay, then I was like, well, do I need to render out each one individually?
01:17:52
Speaker
And I was like, i was going to do one at a time as an EXR. Into its own individual folder. and That would be faster, right, than doing than trying to like, okay, it starts at this many frames, and then this many frames, and then it's these folds.
01:18:05
Speaker
Just managing that, because I have to give that to him, then he's got to do that, and then render it back, and send it back to us, and then we have to put it and back in the timeline. which, oh and then because when you render it as a EXR, completely changed all the file names.
01:18:18
Speaker
That was an issue. was like, fuck, okay. That didn't work at all. And that was like two weeks wasted. And then i was like, all right, let's look back to the drawing board. Okay. So then i there I was Googling. I was like, how the fuck am I going to do this?
01:18:31
Speaker
And he was like, well, can you get it into a ProRes 4444? And I was like, okay. Okay. 4444, huh? Yeah. Yeah. which is like, I think a lossless ProRes file.
01:18:43
Speaker
And so i was Googling us and i was like, okay, researching, how can I either behind do this? Okay. And then I was like, okay, someone said, it's pretty easy. Just going to go into Premiere, right click, render and replace into individual clips as ProRes 4444.
01:18:58
Speaker
was like, okay, cool. That's pretty easy. So I did that. It's a lot more manageable. I think it only ended up... Because it's actually... I would recommend filmmakers... like Once you have Picture Lock, I would recommend doing this for all of your files.
01:19:12
Speaker
Because essentially just renders them out just as the the clip size. So like instead of having like the clip remember like like the whole clip, it just remembers that shot length.
01:19:22
Speaker
Okay. So all those 135 only like 200 gigs. the all of the like all those hundred and thirty five is only like two hundred gigs ah much more manageable has the same file names it even renames the file what the render is on the timeline so once he gives us back the corrected one I just literally have to relink it with that corrected oh nice so it's going to be super simple so then I had to do all of that 135 times um Thankfully, we have it so often that I could do like five or six at a time.
01:19:54
Speaker
But then have to wait for it to render. And so i did and how long was that? um it probably that took I did it, think I was working on it every night for like a week. um So I would go home from work. I would just eat dinner at the desk and just like render, render, render, render renderer um and just go through. it's like, is that the green rectangle? Because I essentially redid the list.
01:20:14
Speaker
Started the very first shot and I was like, okay, what what are the issues here? Does it need VFX? Like obvious v VFX. I wasn't doing like the camera shake stuff. So I was like, eh, I'm not going to worry about that.
01:20:24
Speaker
We have an issue. Yeah. there There's priority list here. Let's get, was like, let's get the reflections gone. Let's get the shadows that are weird. That kickstand on the light when she's running into the house, your reflection in the mirror.
01:20:37
Speaker
was like, dead pixels I can handle. I'm not worrying about that. And then green rectangle. So then i was I just went through and I rendered everything. Render, render, render, render. Bullet shots, render, and render, render. And then got that all in the folder and then made a new folder just for rendered files so that when he can he has access to the folder, once it's done, drag it and drop it in there, delete it from the drive so we know that shot's done.
01:21:00
Speaker
That's the workflow. That's what we're going with. He hasn't rendered anything yet. So God damn, I hope to God this works out. And he actually does, just gets all the work done. Cause it's like, dude, it's like, that's like, it's been a huge concern. Yeah.
01:21:15
Speaker
Cause I remember it was like, think Charlie, we were looking at it at your mom's. We were looking at some of the footage and there was, we were like, what the fuck is this like thing? And he was like, oh just dirt or do do to do it's gone.
01:21:29
Speaker
and and now and But then it's like, I don't know what he did. But for every reason, we were just like, well, trust Charlie. we We're good to go. No, don't ever. Don't ever trust Charlie. Not even that bad. Just like, if you see an issue like that, like we should have addressed that. like it it's kind of a all i Thankfully, we might be able to get away with it only costing us $1,000. Yeah.
01:21:52
Speaker
thousand dollars But, you know, that's the time and the concern. and Well, already all the time you spent. Yeah. Just trying to transfer those shots. Because, I mean, if it was strictly like VFX, like, oh, there's, you know, ah weird shadows. So we need to composite this wall so you don't see the shadow or... Yeah. Like the... Or remove a reflection. The things that you hate, like ah the bathroom, the cracks in the...
01:22:19
Speaker
the The tub and the the wallpaper, ah the lines. Although I was looking at like a lot of houses, I'm like, that's kind of normal. What kind of houses have you been in? A lot of houses are cheap.
01:22:34
Speaker
Cheaply put together, my friend. You you see the seams.
01:22:38
Speaker
And I was like, maybe. I mean, like that's not the end of the world. like It's a cheap-ass looking house. like you know yeah um you know You can just say like that the the house has gone into disrepair. you know like If we had to, right? like I'm just saying, we're going to try to fix it if we can, or we're going fix it.
01:22:54
Speaker
We're to fix it. But... It's like, okay, if we just had those, it'd probably be like 35, maybe. Yeah, it'd be a small number, right? it it it Much less than 35 would be my guess. I'm guessing it'd probably be like 15. Yeah, yeah. like because um um And that's outside of like the stabilization stuff, which I think... Stabilization, dead pixels, outside of that. Yeah.
01:23:18
Speaker
Yeah, because DeadPixels, there's a tool for it. right You just click it. It's like DaVinci Resolve. yeah it's like ah it's like Yeah, it's the easiest thing in the world. like That's the best thing about technology. Well, because of technology. Yeah.
01:23:30
Speaker
I'm sure if we were, you know, you don't have to even track it, right? mean, if we did it when it first When we first finished post, our first finished principle, had been a lot harder. But now, lot easier. Yeah, there's a lot of tools that kind of Like, even with the stabilization, right? like Even with the stabilization. And the noise. The noise. The AI recreating segments of the shot that would have been... Or that are non-existent. But AI recreates...
01:23:55
Speaker
Yeah, and we have some some trickier day for night stuff that we'll need we need help with. like Just like kind of like tracking and removing the sky to make it black to black it out. like that's That stuff, um hopefully, like that would be, like like I said, 10, 15 shots.
01:24:12
Speaker
It's that, yeah. But now it's like 135 to probably 150 those added in. The only good thing about the Bermuda rectangle is that it's static.
01:24:24
Speaker
Yeah. Doesn't move. Yeah. Thank God. That's VFX. The wild turkey. Yeah. um color Coloring. So, and interesting about coloring. The nice thing about coloring, sorry, is we have a plan.
01:24:40
Speaker
Yeah. And we have, essentially, we just are looking for, like, um our boxer. And our boxer in the sense of animal farm. Yeah. We don't need like a colorist. We just need someone that can do the work that we've already... It's like, we want it to look like this, make the rest look like this.
01:24:58
Speaker
yeah right We have the examples, and then they just need to make it you know translate through the rest of the film. That's what we need. Super simple, hopefully. Hopefully.
01:25:10
Speaker
Hopefully. like I'm imagining that should make the price a lot cheaper. They don't have to figure anything out other than... Do it this more. No, they'll have a lot of work to do.
01:25:23
Speaker
So, yeah, because I guess we you know we only did like three and shots. um And then finishing up, credits. Because we can't really finish the credits until everyone's worked on the movie.
01:25:37
Speaker
And it's done, because then we will know for sure who should be credited. So, we'll get into the main discussion, which I will read some things.
01:25:49
Speaker
I tried to like separate things in the bullet points, but I just started writing. and like I haven't i't been writing or really being that creative lately. like i've been having a real The problem is, and this is what hurts, is like it's not writer's block.
01:26:13
Speaker
It's not like I don't have projects or things in mind to work on. It's just getting the time to sit there and write. And maybe this is where I was thinking of just like doing the stopwatch technique for, you know, 30 minutes.
01:26:32
Speaker
30 minutes though is a lot of time to ask for. um For me, like, you know, I try to be, try to you know,
01:26:47
Speaker
be present because I'm gone so long, but I don't know. You know, like, you only get to you only get one life, and if you have a dream, you gotta a fucking dive. You gotta fight.
01:26:57
Speaker
You gotta fight! And, you know, I'm ready. i want to fight. I don't know. I wonder how many people are, like, in the same position.
01:27:10
Speaker
So, yeah. Back to it. i want I left off, last thing before I start reading a lot, um Credits. i wonder I thought this could be an interesting topic because I was thinking about this.
01:27:22
Speaker
And wrote in here, we've got to decide on the font. Yeah. Which I think you have some blog some examples or whatever that you like. Yeah. um And then it's just like that painstaking, laborious process of trying to go through and remember everybody. or Well, I have all the records. Yeah, we have the paperwork. But even that, like that so i was this is what I wrote, was like,
01:27:47
Speaker
um we don't We didn't have a traditional crew. No. Everyone did everything.
01:27:58
Speaker
People had jobs, but ah very few people actually just did that. Even if like they had that job, they did that job. yeah like Not to shit anyone, but I was thinking Chanel did the costumes.
01:28:12
Speaker
She's never on set. No, but Brenda was. But like, Brenda was... and Brenda helped with costumes. So like... Who? Like, there's not a costume designer. Like, I don't know. Chanel would be the key costume person and then Brenda would be under that.
01:28:29
Speaker
Because I was thinking like, well, how do we even like credit some of this stuff? Like... No one was like, i was like, because, you know, I was like, well, what we could do is just watch a movie and then would just copy like, okay, then this person, then this credit shows up and then this credit shows up. It's like, i was watching the movie last night. I was watching A Science of the Lambs after Enemy of the State.
01:28:52
Speaker
Tak Fujimoto. I think it's his name. He was a cinematographer. I like him a lot. Yeah. I love the cinematography in Silence of the Lambs. I really do. Like, that's a very 90s-esque kind of like style to the cinematography. But damn, it's so good. I love that it's like Jonathan Demme is the director of that one. And...
01:29:16
Speaker
I love. That's just such a perfect film. It's so good. Like i was watching it and was like, you know, most the times I'll watch it. I could watch a movie and be like, eh, that cut ain't great. But then I'm watching that movie and I'm like, man, everything just like blends and flows.
01:29:31
Speaker
i think when she's done, ah and she's like showing herself to Hannibal Lecter for the first time. Yeah. Yeah. And she's like, what did Mig say to you? you know and She's like, oh, he said he could smell my cunt or whatever, right? Yeah.
01:29:50
Speaker
And he's like, well, I can't smell your cunt, but you use Evian cream and, you know, yeah the perfume and and the perfume, but you're not wearing it today. And, you know, it's like, it's just showing like, you know, his acumen and his knowledge and his ability to kind of dissect her.
01:30:11
Speaker
And, you know, it's like, then Migs, you know, masturbates and like throws the cum on her face. And I was thinking like, as grotesque as that is, like,
01:30:23
Speaker
the unraveling and like the dehumanizing that Hannibal Lecter goes through with her was probably worse. Dude, you know the best thing about Silence of the Lam?
01:30:34
Speaker
It makes the audience feel smart. Yeah. That's how good the writing is. Yeah. It makes you feel smart because you're like, oh, this is dead. It is like, yeah, dummy. Well, I always get to the part where it's like, Clarice, what do we covet? And I'm like, what do you covet mean? No, but... Isn't that the arc?
01:30:54
Speaker
The arc of the covet? Because because there's there's like smart writing like ah Charlie Kaufman. Right? That's his name? Yeah. The adaptation? Yeah, you know, it's like, okay, this guy fucking reads.
01:31:06
Speaker
And it's like, yeah, i'm watching a guy who's making smart movies. But like... He doesn't make you feel smart. Where Science of the Lamb, it's like, it's holding your hand the whole way through with the writing and the storytelling. you know I'm talking about cinematography.
01:31:22
Speaker
Very little close-ups. A lot of mediums. There's a few close-ups. A lot of tracking shots. There's a few close the close-ups. The close-ups few and perfect.
01:31:33
Speaker
Not my point. My point is that the writing makes you feel smart. Yeah. And close-ups are amazing and they should be used more often. Please stop using close-ups so much. It's all I'll say.
01:31:44
Speaker
First Man. Guess what? The only man. In every single frame. Should have been called close-up. Except that that was already an Iranian movie. But you know what? Chazelle pulled that off with First Man, right? With the cinematography. Because that was a lot of fucking close-ups. But it works.
01:32:01
Speaker
I'll say. And that's pretty fucking rare. because Because you know, you make a good point. A close-up's a hard thing to pull off. Because you just see this enormous face on this, you know, massive screen.
01:32:14
Speaker
The thing is... First man really pulls it off. Tim, like, I don't... I'm kind of trying to getting into the habit of of trying to... I want to be able to explain why i don't like something.
01:32:25
Speaker
but The reason I don't like... Yeah, you should, because whenever I'm asked, like, hey, buddy, what do you think? It sucks. Okay, I'll go back to the dry board. Because why I don't like close-ups is... It's a distraction, and it...
01:32:38
Speaker
It's a distraction in the sense that like you're taken out of the place. Dude, your problem is you just don't like being close up to someone. That and I don't like, i I want to feel like I'm, I want to be a part of the scene.
01:32:52
Speaker
Close ups aren't, you can't be because it's like, it's so intimate. Yeah. You need to learn to be intimate. but you know Take those barriers down. Lower the defense mechanism.
01:33:04
Speaker
but Open yourself up to be closed. I want to examine the world they're Let me be closed. That's what I love. like That's what I love about Science of the Lambs. That's what I love about like Kubrick. Every time I watch Science of the Lamb, I'm just like... Because it's never I would never say it's on my top 10, even though it is.
01:33:23
Speaker
It's probably like my top three, honestly. No, I don't know. See, I always discard it, but then I watch it I'm like... and It's one of the movies I've seen more than any other movie.
01:33:34
Speaker
I watch it all the time, like Alien. I'm always watching that film, even though I don't give him enough credit. and And every time i watch Science of the Lamb, I'm just like... This is a perfect movie.
01:33:45
Speaker
You know, it's just... and The cool thing, too, is... It's a perfect movie. I was thinking about, because when i was watching it last night, I was like, very subtle soundtrack. The whole thing's subtle.
01:33:56
Speaker
Even though it's in your face, right? Like, with there's only two female FBI agents in the whole thing, right? And you always have the male gaze throughout the entire film. The male gaze is right there in your face.
01:34:08
Speaker
But it's played so subtly. You know, that whole film is just subtle, but yet it's in your face. That's what I'm saying. It's a movie, not just the writing, but it's a movie that makes you feel smart.
01:34:18
Speaker
like and make You watch that movie, you you feel better about yourself because you're like, oh, I spotted this and this and this. It's like, yeah, I was holding your hand the whole time to make you spot that. It's one of those films. It's kind of like a Robocop in a sense. It is, and it's a master class of filmmaking.
01:34:36
Speaker
because it's like a miracle that it happened. like Really? Jonathan Demme, what the fuck did he do after that? I don't even know who that is. He was kind of he did like a couple cool thrillers, I think, beforehand. And then he made Signs of the Lambs. And it's like, and it's like man, everything just kind of came together to make that movie work. like i Because I listened to the books. Which is I think, Anthony Hopkins' best performance. Because I listened to the books.
01:35:01
Speaker
And the books are are different in the sense that like. Oh, they're way different. I read um Hannibal and I was like, this doesn't. Actually, the movie Hannibal felt similar to the novel.
01:35:13
Speaker
Yeah. But i was I was like, man, this doesn't feel like Science of the Lime at all. Yeah. This doesn't feel like the movie at all. Because like the book is like, it doesn't just focus. that the The cool thing about the book is it's it focuses. It has a focus.
01:35:27
Speaker
Mm-hmm. The book is like, it it delves into a lot of what's going on with Jack Crawford. It delves on a lot what's going on with Buffalo Bill. Delves a lot more into what's going on with the other characters.
01:35:41
Speaker
And, you know, Clarice is kind of like just the vehicle that we're traveling around in. So she's not even that well developed in the novel? She is, but she's it's like it's more of like an ensem ensemble. like well Because Jack Crawford's a lot more of a bigger character in the book.
01:35:57
Speaker
Mm-hmm. And when you watch the movie, it's like, you can it's like ah it's like a it's like i say it's a masterclass because it's like a masterclass in the adaptation of the novel. You can't tell that movie, you can't tell that book in a movie, right?
01:36:11
Speaker
Like it goes into like Jack Crawford and his wife being sick with cancer and dying and Hannibal like fucking with him about it and like all the stuff that happened with ah Will Graham earlier. all that that's in Silence of the Lambs too.
01:36:27
Speaker
Oh, okay. Yeah, because they don't touch upon that. whatsoever in the film because jack's like dealing with like crawford's like this big character and it and i bet like most people are just like a passing sentence in the film right like jack crawford's like yeah i had another agent on hannibal and yeah that's it well and also like well in the book he kind of is too but it's like more like jack is a lot more careful with his agents because of everything that happened with will And he's like a lot more of a, he's just a character.
01:36:55
Speaker
In the movie, he's barely a set piece. Like he's barely there. Well, he's a pretty big one because you can see his, his plays on Clarice, right? Yeah. Like everyone you can see is playing chess and you can see like Jack Crawford moving his pieces, right? Like losing, using Clarice as, you know, yeah a pawn in all of this to kind of get what he wants out of Hannibal. Yeah.
01:37:18
Speaker
But the movie does this brilliant thing where it's like, well, we're going to talk about this eventually. We're talking about Sides of the Lambs all day. But this thing is that is brilliant is ah uses it focuses on Clarice so much that the movie is allowed to just like be her story.
01:37:39
Speaker
her story Right? She's the character. She's the center of everything. Like, of course, there's this world happening around her. But, like, we're just given, like, these little, like, bits and pieces.
01:37:57
Speaker
And it's brilliant how it's adapted. Because, right, like, it'd be so easy to be like, well, Jack's... What's wrong, Jack? Well, my wife died. yeah so sad. Yeah, to include that, yeah.
01:38:09
Speaker
Well, I'm free to bang you, Clarice. Wait, whoa, what? That was a 180. Yeah. ah you know You know, and shit like that. It's like, no, it that doesn't happen in the movie. We don't have time for that.
01:38:21
Speaker
Like, it's so tight. That movie is so tight. And also... That aspect of it is subtle too, right? Because even Hannibal's like, oh you think he's handsome, don't you? You know, like talking about the her attraction to him and yeah playing into that too, right? And also like it goes, like the book is ah more grounded in that like these these investigations take a while.
01:38:46
Speaker
Oh, really? Right? Like, it doesn't, you know, weeks and weeks and weeks go by, right? Like, it's not just like, Hannibal told me it's this guy. I'm going to kill him now, you know? Oh, so it doesn't play out fast. Right? Like, she's like she goes to the the people's houses and she's trying to figure, she's like trying to, like, investigate the victims and, like, how do I play this out? Like, and then she is investigating victims.
01:39:08
Speaker
everyone in um the senator's life to try to figure out, like, is one of the senator's, like, people, like invest like, are they hiding things from me because, like, they find all this stuff and drugs and contraband and stuff in the girl's apartment and things like that. Like any novel, right? it goes all, like, Jaws, right? It just goes all over the place with the mob and shit. Yeah, and it's like, we don't, in the movie, it's like,
01:39:35
Speaker
We don't need to know. Well, that's what my biggest criticism is. You know, when like Tarantino going back to that, you know, and him and a lot of other filmmakers are always like, read, read. and And my thing is um a movie isn't a novel.
01:39:50
Speaker
The closest you can get for a film to be a novel is like a miniseries or ah TV show. But a film, it's just snapshots, man. It's the cliff notes of all of that.
01:40:02
Speaker
And you really have to bring it in to keep it focused and and not get too convoluted. The only reason I would say reading is important is because... Well, it makes you smarter.
01:40:14
Speaker
It makes you... Well, I don't know. that That's our arguable. They use big words. um I would just say is filmmaking is not always story first.
01:40:28
Speaker
No, it's not not even necessarily. I mean, look at, interestingly enough, my mom watched A Ghost Story and she loved it, which I was astonished by it because I was like, who loves A Ghost Story?
01:40:39
Speaker
You know? ah Well, you haven't seen it. and I think I'll love it. but But that movie's like, who the fuck would love this movie? And my mom loved it. But I mean, I like, you know, it's, it's, it's barely a narrative.
01:40:55
Speaker
A ghost story is barely a narrative. It's just a series of images. Um, to encompass eternity. you know ah You know what they say, buddy, ah a picture is a thousand big words.
01:41:07
Speaker
Lots of big words. And there's 24,000 words a second on a movie. But really, you know, a movie is not a novel and it can't be.
01:41:19
Speaker
You can't be there that long. You get tired. My thing is the, and that why I would say it's not, well, one, it's not bad to read. No, no. Read. There's a lot of good shit that you can read. I would say that it from the aspect of a filmmaker, the reason why you would want to read and read widely, i don't think... It makes you a better storyteller. It makes you a better storyteller. Plain and simple.
01:41:43
Speaker
And you get exposed to a lot more. the And this is what we were talking about with... Fucking, you know, like, look at Kubrick. He didn't make an original movie once. All of his movies are adaptations.
01:41:55
Speaker
But also look at Kubrick where he spent 10 years of his life working on his Holocaust film that got usurped by Steven Spielberg who did Schindler's List. Yeah.
01:42:06
Speaker
And then Kubrick's like, well, he did the Holocaust movie and might as well not do it. Yeah. And everyone's like, well, what if Kubrick did that movie instead? How would that have played out? I bet there wouldn't have been a happy ending.
01:42:19
Speaker
Was there a happy ending in Schindler's List? Yeah, there was. Because Oscar Schindler saved, you know, a hundred. No. How many did he save? and Thousands? Like a thousand? Something like that.
01:42:31
Speaker
You know, and then they showed the... How big was his list? they They show the surviving family members of that. Yeah. You know, where it's like, well, Kubrick wouldn't have... Because, I mean, Schindler's List had that one really super dark...
01:42:47
Speaker
ah D story with the girl in the red coat, I think. Right? And that's like, ugh. But Kubrick would have been just focused on that little girl in the red coat or the red dress, whatever it was.
01:43:01
Speaker
You know? Because, I don't know. you know like Kubrick's would have been come and see Holocaust version. Yeah. And it's like... Yeah, that's that's just a completely different story.
01:43:14
Speaker
and And you can't make the Holocaust. i mean there's just But they're not based off the same novel either. like that my My point is that
01:43:23
Speaker
it's important to know, to read, because then you get to see how stories are told. Yeah. Right? Like, when you read, you know, it's like...
01:43:35
Speaker
You could watch Lord of the Rings and then you can read Lord of the Rings and it's like two different experiences. But then you read like Neuromancer by William Gibson or whatever that guy's name is. And it's like, oh, like these are also books. It's the same, like it's the same medium, but it's like, these are, you could,
01:43:51
Speaker
but Completely different. But I would say books are allowed to be subliferous, right? Of course, because they don't... yeah You're not sitting someone in a theater for yeah know i'm two weeks. Look at Infinite Jest. I've never read it.
01:44:05
Speaker
but it But that's like one of the bo books that you know you got to do that marathon. you know It's over a thousand pages. and Brothers Karamazov. I've never read it, but... You know, they're allowed to go on all these...
01:44:21
Speaker
directions where a movie just doesn't have that luxury. If you want to make a good movie, honestly, I used to love long movies, but really you got to get in a 90 minutes and you got to get a a tight 90, not to say you can't go longer or shorter.
01:44:38
Speaker
You definitely can go longer, obviously, but you really should be trying to hit that bullseye of 90 minutes because that's the sweet spot for people's attention spans and keeping the story tight. I've rarely seen movies over 90 minutes that felt tight.
01:44:56
Speaker
Yeah. There's some, there is, but that's an exception to the rule. There's so many movies that are like, God damn, I wish you would have cut like 30 minutes from this film and made it a sweet 90 and it would have been so much better.
01:45:08
Speaker
One thing I'll say is the best movies deserve to be longer. Because what you're... Also, the best movies leave you wanting more time yeah with it, too.
01:45:19
Speaker
I always think... um You know, because people always, like, shit on 2001 as being boring. It is. But it's like a musical... Because you know how musicals are always so fucking long?
01:45:31
Speaker
No, I love musicals. You don't. I don't like them because they're so long. Yeah, I them. Do want to listen to 45 five-minute songs? No, I fucking don't. See? They suck. I love it. Give me one more song.
01:45:43
Speaker
Yeah. Play it again, Sam. You know, I say I don't like musicals, but then I watch like Singing in the Rain. and It's like one of the greatest movies ever fucking made. Yeah, but you don't like Grease. I don't like Greece. so that says a lot. There's a lot of songs that aren't good. And it's like, it's a drag. It's such a drag. It's like, is the song going end? They're petering down. And then it's like. Hopelessly devoted to you.
01:46:06
Speaker
it's like. You know, it's like, I've tried. I've tried. But it's like, ten it's like these songs are so fucking long. Well, even Umbrellas at Chernobyl.
01:46:16
Speaker
um Yeah. well It felt like it's runtime. like i don't know what that runtime is. But I will say... Gee!
01:46:25
Speaker
i can't remember what the chick's name is. Anna or something? Who cares about Anna? It's all about Gee! It is all about Gee. That's what you gotta love about the French. They ain't afraid to make a story about a man.
01:46:42
Speaker
I left. You got a baby and a rich husband. But I'll pump your gas. How happy we would have been. yeah My mother said you were a loser.
01:46:58
Speaker
but i kind of am. I went through war,
01:47:06
Speaker
I'm all fucked up. I work at a gas station. But I'll pump your gas, baby. I own the gas station. Hey, come on. Did Yeah.
01:47:17
Speaker
thought he was you the owner of it. Oh, look, dude. Guy's working on it. In the credits, you don't realize his name was Guy Sheffron.
01:47:28
Speaker
Shit, Guy. Yeah, bitch, you should have stayed. You know, like, that's how it would have been in ah in an American movie. That's it would have been in our film. Yeah. He would have signed the check. Chevron. The...
01:47:46
Speaker
You know what? um Umbrellas of Sherbog and La La Land kind of have a lot in common in a sense where it's like. Everyone has a lot of common with them. You haven't seen um Joker. Joker. Joker. Joker de Foley or whatever.
01:48:02
Speaker
i liked it. I thought it was better than the first one, actually. well that's not hard. The first one sucked dick. Yeah. Well, this one felt original. I think that's why I liked it. But they totally. There's a scene that it's like, OK, this is Umbrellas.
01:48:14
Speaker
Oh, really? Oh, yeah. You'll you'll see it when you when you watch it. I liked it way more. um Well, we're like Tarantino. We loved the second one and hated the first one. Yeah, but he was like, it's a big fuck you to the audience. I don't know if that's true.
01:48:27
Speaker
Maybe. i think it was just him. It's a fuck you to the audience. I love the first one. I don't even know. You haven't even seen it. I would just say. That's what he said. No, yeah, yeah. But I would just say it's just deconstructing everything.
01:48:41
Speaker
That's it. And if deconstructionism is a fuck you to everyone, then sure. but it would be like making Fight Club 2 and Tyler Durden just like eats his own cum the whole movie. yeah Because that's that's the best protein is man protein. Yeah, well, it's just deconstructing now that. right I don't think that's a bad way to go. no it's genius. Because you're...
01:49:05
Speaker
using your You're using the story to actively respond to the film that came before it. Yeah, it's very meta. I i really liked it. ah Karen didn't.
01:49:18
Speaker
I wish it would have been more of a musical. It's not as much of a musical because no one likes musicals, apparently. And so everyone's afraid to do a musical. But... Well, they suck, so that's a good place to start. Nah, my thing is just, if you're gonna do a musical, go out, man.
01:49:34
Speaker
Just go full out on a musical. You have to. Well, i don't hate musicals. like a lot. There's a lot of musics musicals I like.
01:49:42
Speaker
Nightmare Before Christmas. treat ah Little Shop of Horrors. showed Sophia that. She liked that. um To be a dentist.
01:49:53
Speaker
That's it. Little Shop of Horrors. Yeah. Yeah.
01:49:59
Speaker
s Singing in the Rain. Like, I wanted to hate that movie so fucking bad. Because I was like, fuck Singing in the Rain. Fuck that. Fuck you, Chazelle. Fuck you, Chazelle. And you watch Singing the Rain, you're like, god damn it.
01:50:10
Speaker
God damn it. This movie is amazing. Like, why why don't people talk? Like, no one has this in their top 10. Like, it's. And I still have to watch it. God damn, dude. It's like, fuck. I hate it.
01:50:23
Speaker
hate how good it is. So what did you write, buddy? yeah. So I guess I'll read and you can just stop me and when you want to interject. Okay. So this is what I wrote.
01:50:35
Speaker
Damn, you hyped me up a little bit more than I should have been hyped up. All right. Main discussion. Don't try. Charles Bukowski. That's why I got to hype you up. so written on his Don't try.
01:50:47
Speaker
is written on his ah his tombstone. Which is an interesting one that that's his like most. that That's like the biggest. poem he's known for is is that one of all of them because i mean he's written some just i mean you either like book cask or you don't but i'm working through women right now so but that one like oh i love women my favorites are totem um ah androy no post office factotum Hammond rise the one where he's a kid right yeah yeah oh dude I would love to just do the kids section of that not the full story because then he goes into an adult but just focus on when he's a kid I would definitely adapt that one into a film that's the only book I would ever adapt but yeah
01:51:41
Speaker
But other than the novelization of Halloween, other than the novelization of Halloween. But yeah, I would say Factotum and Post Office are my favorite ones from him. um Although Pulp is just like, I love so out there, you know, it's just like, it's so pitch perfect. I love it. We're just jumping the shark and going all that is a movie I would adapt because Pulp is essentially bubbleowski like,
01:52:08
Speaker
I love pulp. I love that. Pulp is just out there, man. It's just fucking out there. And that's who I am. I just love being out there. But it, but it's interesting that that's his most famous poem of, of not trying. And a lot of people just don't understand. They're what do you mean not try? It's, it's like, you're not listening to what he's saying. He's saying, if you have to try, then ah you're not there because it should be so effortless that you're not trying. You're just doing.
01:52:35
Speaker
Yeah. Well, and I, I write about that a little bit here.
01:52:40
Speaker
So I guess I'll read. This is a little essay I wrote, I guess. And like I said, by just when you want to stop me and interject, just just stop me. Don't try. often think about those words.
01:52:52
Speaker
Etched on the writer's tombstone. It's not an uncommon notion. Hell, it's even said in Empire Strikes Back. Do or do not, there is no try. Be it Yoda, Bukowski, sentiment remains. Like everything in life worth doing, you have to give it a your all or don't bother.
01:53:07
Speaker
I know I should have saved this writing until we are truly said and done with the film. When it's all packaged and ready, there are no more hands on, but feels like things are in the right place now. I felt in a period of limbo for so many years. There was always the knowledge that the film would be completed.
01:53:22
Speaker
But as the month turned to years and years and years, reshoots brought up and down and completely refilming the opening scene. It felt like this was the uphill battle.
01:53:35
Speaker
The struggle to get this done has been us together against every odd. I remember when we were shooting, we had struggles with, but post on this beast has been nightmarish.
01:53:47
Speaker
Every mistake laid bare and it felt so daunting, carving through stone with only our fingers. Here we are nine years later, unable to see the light. It still doesn't feel real to me yet. And maybe you never will, but damn it.
01:54:01
Speaker
It's been ah about the journey. It's been long and scary. But through the highs and lows, we've been at it side by side, buddy, you and I, Twin Shadows. Just writing that felt a bit surreal.
01:54:14
Speaker
Dickhead was always meant to be a stepping stone, a door to open us to a career as storytellers and filmmakers. As I was listening to Roger and Quentin Tarantino on Joe Rogan, haven't listened to Rogan a long time. I feel like i have to say that because i's I'm woke.
01:54:31
Speaker
because I didn't write that, but that's why I wrote that. Well, you know, i would. What a coward. This is me interjecting. i think you should save this for when we actually premiere the film. And if we have an opportunity to share this film with the people who worked on it.
01:54:47
Speaker
Yeah. As a speech.
01:54:52
Speaker
You know, you're right. Joe Rogan. I haven't listened to Rogan in a long time. But I saw those two on there and I just had to dig in. They brought up some things that opened my eyes and one thing was comfort.
01:55:06
Speaker
Tip for filmmakers out there. Filmmaking itself can range from no budget films with your friends to $100 million juggernauts and the vast ocean but in between, which is where we are right now. Somewhere hopefully near quitting our jobs to do this full time.
01:55:19
Speaker
But it's a risk and that is why I want to talk about comfort. Comfort in life is a double-edged sword. most people who kill for Most people would kill for a sense of comfort in their day-to-day lives.
01:55:30
Speaker
Never really dream of anything more because they have never known a sense of comfort before. Yet for anyone looking to dream of the risk, that ambition, to strive for that dream. And the dream isn't one of fame or wealth.
01:55:43
Speaker
I sincerely mean that when I say, i just want to work with Alex, Adam, Pat, John, Steve, Jared, Clark, Joe, other Steve, and most of all, you, my buddy. And creating stories.
01:55:55
Speaker
Film is what calls me. what is what calls to me It's a collaboration discovery. mean And true joy to just work with people who enjoy doing this. When we sit and chat with our friends and guests, I feel alive.
01:56:08
Speaker
It's a strange sensation to feel that drive and the inspiration.
01:56:15
Speaker
We have a long road ahead. Hell, we need to finish a jog at night.
01:56:20
Speaker
There might be something to bring the sound team in on. And all the future projects we have planned. And just most of all, freeing ourselves from the shackles of day jobs to continue on. Comfort, back to this. God damn, I can't keep on topic to save my life.
01:56:34
Speaker
I just want to impart whatever wisdom I can. I can't tell anyone how to make it because we're still pounding on the door. But I want... No, I need to get this across.
01:56:46
Speaker
Filmmaking, the pursuit of storytelling, is not easy. It's not something you just decide to do. It will break you in more ways than one. You can keep to your no-budget backyard shorts and features and be a happy, content person.
01:56:59
Speaker
But if you wish to hone your craft, it takes everything you got. You don't even have to be good to make it you ever seen a movie? Most films suck. A good year in film is when 10 movies are better than 6 out of 10.
01:57:11
Speaker
Holy shit, I just can't get it out. If you're comfortable working at your day job, be it whatever it is, you may just get stuck there. Life has a way of growing.
01:57:22
Speaker
Stagnation, and that is deadly. If you want to go into filmmaking because you can't try, you are all in or you're nothing. It's scary and heartbreaking. But there you have it.
01:57:33
Speaker
You have to push through everything to make a film. If it comes easy to you, that's great. Fuck you. Something we both have struggled with is just how much life can get in the way.
01:57:44
Speaker
It's not an excuse for why Dickhead took so long. That's a whole podcast in of itself. Probably a six hour one. I just want you to all know this. It is never too late. The only goal is finishing the best you can and learning along the way.
01:57:57
Speaker
If you can do this, maybe you too can struggle with us and come on the show and we'll talk about it. My goal when we finish this is to make a list of all the hard lessons learned, really sit down and talk them through and document them all for you all out there.
01:58:09
Speaker
Because I know, i wish i knew this and it was tattooed on me before we started this journey.
01:58:17
Speaker
So if it was tattooed on you, would you have done it? Yes. Without a doubt. There's nothing more I want to do. than make movies. There's nothing that I can... that has I've done a lot of things. I've tried a lot of things.
01:58:35
Speaker
I don't want to just be a writer. By the way, that was beautiful, what you wrote. oh well Thank you, buddy. That was really good. i listen I've been reading Bukowski. What can I say um've been drinking a lotta I've been drinking a lot.
01:58:47
Speaker
yeah You know what sucks? and's so It's funny to say this, but... Alcohol doesn't make you fat writer. Oh, absolutely. There's something about, and I ah i think we've we've had a podcast about this probably, but it's like, you got to get out of the way your own bullshit.
01:59:02
Speaker
Oh, yeah. um Even just like the whole like, well, I haven't listened to Rogan a while. And reading that back, I'm like, why did i write that? Why am I like projecting that? Like who fucking cares? I just listened to the show. i don't give a fuck if Rogan like sucked Hitler's dick. Like I don't, I don't care. Like he had Tarantino on and Avery and i've got something out of it.
01:59:21
Speaker
um you know, the whole like platforming thing, whatever, you know, fuck off. um But yeah, there's something I want to do more. Like I've tried the writing thing, you know, I, you know, I wrote a book and I've been trying to edit it for years and years. And you gave me like all the editing pages. And I remember just thinking like, fuck, I got to just rewrite the opening and then do the edits and it would be, it'd be done. I could probably send it to a publisher, if but I'm like, fuck, that's,
01:59:49
Speaker
it's a lot of work it's a lot of effort and i go back and i'm like how did i write this i don't even remember how i wrote this to begin with like did i actually do this you know chat gpu didn't exist so i couldn't have used that or i would have um not really but yeah you know i just think about like shit like that it's like there's something like i was thinking about like because you know when we have our guests on we had kasusha you know ah
02:00:15
Speaker
the fuck is that guy's name uh steve steve joe you know like i tried the list uh tread list uh you know people that we we will probably work with because they won't work with us no no she's way too cool for us i mean she might who knows um but we have too many goddamn cinematographers butting heads in here you know we gotta we gotta help that little boy alex out
02:00:40
Speaker
Break him out. you know get a Use him. Whatever. um Sorry. the yeah The Glenn Morangi and the Willett is starting to hit. but you know like The things I would have tattooed on me, it's like, well, number one, it's worth it.
02:01:02
Speaker
It's worth it because Well, the thing is, I haven't even seen both sides yet. It's worth the struggle? It's worth the struggle because... and the people and you know ah Roger Avery talked about this on the podcast.
02:01:20
Speaker
At one point, he was doing PA work, and he was doing like assistant work and ah direct director's assistant, stuff like that.
02:01:31
Speaker
And he was working with the guy that did COPS. The guy that created the show cops, John Langham or something like that. Langley maybe. And he he said, you know, what's the best advice you can give to somebody? He said, well, what do you want to do?
02:01:47
Speaker
He said, i want to be a film director. And he said, well, direct films. Yeah. He said, don't be a grip. Don't be a PA. don't He's like, you'll get stuck being a PA. You'll get stuck being a grip. You'll be get stuck being a yeah ah ah gaffer for the rest of your life. He's like, if you want to be a director, direct films.
02:02:08
Speaker
Yeah. And when he was talking about that, it hit me, and I was like, we kind of already did that. yeah We said, you know, we could have quit our jobs and, you know, when start went and start working on movie sets.
02:02:22
Speaker
We know people that do that. I mean, they make shit, but, you know, well, not shit. I mean, they're making enough to have a living. they're they're They're making a living doing what we wish we were doing, but they're not doing what we want to do.
02:02:37
Speaker
Yeah. I don't want to be a gaffer. I don't want to be a grip. I don't want to be a focus polar or an first AC. What about a DP? I don't want to do that.
02:02:49
Speaker
I don't think I could do it. i you know i would try I would be like, every time i I'm on a set, I take it over. but Yeah, you do. I can't help it. like You're pretty bad with that one, too.
02:03:01
Speaker
Yes. like That's why I try not to like get on set because I know I'm just going to be like, why are you doing it like this? You're fucking stupid. like That's how I'm thinking in my head. And it's like, I don't want to be that. But that's how I am on set. it's like That's why I like working with Steven because it's like, we mesh. we worked We understand. It's like, I respect what he is saying. He understands what I'm saying and we can figure it, we can communicate it.
02:03:24
Speaker
And be it like, hey, you know, like that's why the credit thing is so hard because it's like, Everyone was doing everything. And we've all been doing everything. I mean, the only thing I can for sure say is we never did hair or makeup.
02:03:39
Speaker
Or special effects. Well, I did it. I was doing special effects. I was putting blood on people. and Yeah, I did it. and And getting the knives ready and all that stuff.
02:03:50
Speaker
um But I don't want to be a special effects artist. I mean, I guess if whatever reason, like if dickhead or our careers don't happen, i mean, I would just want to just keep making movies in the backyard, you know, with you and Alex and and Josh and whoever else we can rope in and con into coming and helping us. like yeah It's like, you know you know, it's always like when when Adam said it, it was so clear to me. And I was like,
02:04:20
Speaker
yeah He's like, you guys are so passionate passionate about it. It's infectious. And it's like, yeah. you know it's It's easy to be passionate about it. i can see I can see the movie where it's going. I can see where it could be, what it could be if it just got to the right eyes.
02:04:36
Speaker
um I'm not making whodun-dun-dun it. We're not making um those movies. you know that movie you know Sure, they got they they finished
02:04:50
Speaker
And, you know, it went to Kevin Smith's film festival and things like that. Like it, you know, Thomas Tuvok, Tulok, Turok, the Dinosaur Hunter, whatever his name is. Like, you know, kudos. that's He's doing it. You know, he I don't know if he has a day job, you know?
02:05:09
Speaker
Do you know what his day job is? Yeah, I think he'd he's a videographer on different projects he can get onto for whatever. Like manning the camera and stuff like that.
02:05:20
Speaker
you know like Just doing that hustle. Yeah, the hustle. That's the scary part. But, you know, if I had to go, you know, you said if I had to go back to it's like, of course, man. The only thing I think about is making movies. The only thing I think about is, like, what could be the next project? What's the next thing we could do? How can we make Dickhead better? How can we, you know, jog at night?
02:05:42
Speaker
I always think about, like, would it be cool to bring Adam and Pat in, show them the film, and see if they have input? Oh, I would love to, but... Like, is that something that we that that's interesting that we could do? Like...
02:05:55
Speaker
you know I'm always thinking about planning things, but it's like, ideas are easy. Action is hard. um Saying action is easy. Yeah. they And you know, like, yeah, the journey has been a tough one, but
02:06:18
Speaker
I would rather have had the journey than, you know, this is where that that' saying, because i fucking hate the saying, like, it's better to have loved than lost than never loved at all. Yeah. It's like, then you never loved.
02:06:29
Speaker
That's what a lot of people say to that. Like, fuck you. Like, you have no, like but then it's like, you know, would have been better to have made dickhead than never have made it at all. And even if it goes nowhere, it's like, of course it would have been better to make it.
02:06:44
Speaker
Like, yeah, it's hard. It would be heartbreaking if this was it. Right? It's like, okay, you know we get Dickhead done and Jog done. And you know we just and then it's like, well, I guess.
02:06:58
Speaker
Bank accounts are drained. That's what we got. Yeah. And then that's you know then we somehow make Rico. And then you know that just goes to YouTube and doesn't go anywhere. And it's like, of course, it would be disappointing. But we did it. Yeah. Yeah.
02:07:15
Speaker
And I just have to believe that. And I do believe that like our shit is a little bit better than the shit we've seen. It's just as simple as that. Well, I think you need to have that ego.
02:07:28
Speaker
you have to be. Even if it's not true, I think you have to have that ego. There's a certain amount of ego and vanity that has to be at play to even embark on such a journey.
02:07:40
Speaker
And you've got to I think you're going to want to shove it in a Orson Welles' face for Citizen Kane and be like, yeah, you did that shit. Let me show you something new. I think you have to have that.
02:07:53
Speaker
I think that's important. And I think if you don't, then you're not going to create anything to change the paradigm.
02:08:05
Speaker
I think it's important to to just remain objective and to know... And this is, you know, while the ego makes it hard to be objective. And that's why we have each other. And that's what's, you know, the power of, you know, the twin shadow.
02:08:22
Speaker
Oh, yeah. Keep pouring. See, you got the glam on a Jerry O and I got the wild turkey. You know, I love that wild turkey. went And I love that it's 20 bucks.
02:08:36
Speaker
Me too. And I love that. It makes me black out. I pretty much, every time I go to the store, I buy a new bottle and I've been drinking like one of those a week. Maybe that's not a good thing, but it helps me write.
02:08:52
Speaker
But yeah, to ask you, to ask you, buddy, like, I know we talk about like, and you know, I've just been talking for a while, but. No, you have a lot to say, man.
02:09:03
Speaker
Let me throw it back to you.
02:09:07
Speaker
you know, like the train has left, you know, the train left the station a long time ago. And unfortunately we're not fascist, so we don't keep the, the trains on time, but you know, like we can finally see the station. Yeah. You know, I think about that scene and have you ever seen a high noon?
02:09:28
Speaker
Yeah. And he's amazing. And you know, the gangsters are like, they're just waiting around like, For High Noon. Yeah, the train will come and, you know, the motherfucker, you know, like the criminal, like I can't remember his name, but the guy that's like, everyone's afraid of, right? Like this motherfucker's going to come and we're going to go and we're going to kill that fucking asshole. Like we're going to kill him.
02:09:50
Speaker
He took my girl. he took my fucking freedom. Wait, is that 310 to Yuma or High Noon? High Noon. Okay. Yeah. with ah Who's in High Noon? Is it Cary Grant? Or is it like Glenn Ford or some shit? know.
02:10:08
Speaker
Is it? man You know better than me. hi High Noon's the movie where... Isn't that where they're waiting for like literally High Noon the whole time? well it's counting down The train arrives at noon.
02:10:19
Speaker
Yeah. And it's like the morning of... And everyone and it's like... This guy is out... of jail or whatever, whatever it is, like this criminal, this super badass is like, he's coming to this town to kill the
Film Completion & Future Projects
02:10:36
Speaker
marshal.
02:10:36
Speaker
Yeah. And the marshal's like, and everyone's like, he's like, oh shit, right? And everyone's like, no, no, no. Everyone's like, and he's like, oh, you know, I've given up that life. Like, I ain't doing this shit no more. And everyone's like, you gotta, gotta,
02:10:51
Speaker
be the guy, like, please help me. like And the whole town's afraid of the the criminal. So they're like, no, we're not gonna help you. You're not gonna help you're not going to help you. And the woman that he loves and like the other woman that he pretty much stole from the criminal,
02:11:08
Speaker
are in town. like because So he got remarried to like this young girl, but he was having an affair with the criminal's wife, and and and the and they and they they kind of meet and become friends, the wife and the the lover.
02:11:23
Speaker
and they're like And he's like, you know like hey, buddy, can you go to help me fight these guys? Yeah. You know, like his gang is cut. He's in over his head. Yeah. yeah And he's like, the whole town is like, no, dude, if we help you and we don't win, they're going to fucking kill everybody. Yeah.
02:11:40
Speaker
And like they go to church and they have this meeting and everyone. He's like, please, just stand with me. And they're like, just get out of here. Just fucking run. He's like, it won't end with me running.
02:11:51
Speaker
Like and will never end until I stand up to him, you know? And there's this punk kid that's like ah hanging out.
02:12:03
Speaker
And he's like, I'll stand with you I'll help you. And he's like, fuck you. I don't want a little bitch ass kid. He's like, okay. And so eventually he, the guy comes and then the Marshall is like, you know, he got, they they have their big standoff fucking kills out. He kills all the criminals, right?
02:12:20
Speaker
Big old fight. Does it all by himself. And that fucking punk ass kid shoots him. Really? have I seen that? thought I said it. That punk ass kid shoots him.
02:12:33
Speaker
He's like, I've done it. I killed the baddest motherfucker in town, and whatever. And he's like, well, I might be mixing this up with a Tales of the Crypt episode. But yeah, that's essentially the story behind him, right? like And no one else no one in town will help him.
02:12:48
Speaker
And he's just like, come on, guys. Yeah, he's just in over his head. Like, there's four of them. i I just need like one or two more guns. Like, Billy Bob. like Just come on, covering fire, man. You don't even got to hit him And they're like, nah, man, you're on your own. And then the thing I love is... ah In that movie, though his wife and his lover, ex-lover, whatever, I don't know.
02:13:09
Speaker
They just ride out of town together. They're like, well, you want to stay and be a dumb motherfucker? Like, sure, like we're out of here. And they just ride out of town together. And the yeah, maybe we can make High Noon 2 lesbian lovers, you know?
02:13:23
Speaker
But yeah, I wanted to ask you, buddy. We've, you know, like, as impossible, like because I know it sounds... to bring up a word you said, superfluous, to say that, you know, like,
02:13:40
Speaker
but we knew the movie would, like I said, we knew the movie was going to be done, but we're actually nearing completion, like legit doneness. What does that feel?
02:13:52
Speaker
How are you feeling? What's going through your head? Same thing that's been going through my head since the start. I mean, it's just another stepping stone in getting it finished.
02:14:05
Speaker
I don't know.
02:14:08
Speaker
i mean, we got drunk on the Shui Jing Feng. And I think that was that moment like, it's done. But after this, it's like, well, we get everything done. Then we do the marketing. Then we do that whole circuit.
02:14:24
Speaker
See what happens. And then we're going to get started on the next one. And the way I see it, the next one is going to be our anthology film where, you know, I hope in a jog at night we'll be on that and but other short whatever other short films we can just throw on there and and then shoot a couple of new ones to come up with another film.
02:14:47
Speaker
And then we'll see from there. And then probably it'll be like, okay, well, this is the next stepping stone to the next step.
02:14:57
Speaker
but So I wouldn't say like it feels like there's a completion. And I don't want to get to that point because if I do, then I'll stop. Anytime I feel like I can slow down, I'll slow down and take the path of least resistance. So I keep on marching on. But I guess what I want to say is what I want to know from you is
02:15:29
Speaker
you There's the famous saying, like art is never finished, it's abandoned. And I think that's stupid. um I think a lot of things are stupid. like I'm an asshole.
02:15:39
Speaker
But what I want to know is... like Because you were saying, like yeah you know that's I don't want to think about it. like It's completed because you want to... you know like there's There's a lot of work ahead. There's a lot of other things to go on.
02:15:53
Speaker
But it's like...
02:15:57
Speaker
There's going to be a time, like, soon, where you're going to have to, like, but' not gonna you're not going to have to think about like what's next on Dickhead.
02:16:08
Speaker
ah can't wait. You're not going like, when I was going through those, looking at the files and the clips, I just kept thinking, like, this might be the last time I have to go through every shot.
02:16:21
Speaker
And I'm like, thank God, because... For a decade. not i mean, it's not literally a decade, but it it might as well be.
02:16:31
Speaker
It might as well be, yeah. It just makes, you know, rounding up makes life easier. It makes it sound more impressive. or Or pathetic, I don't know. like, for me, I can't wait for that because I am done with it.
02:16:53
Speaker
You know, the editing just took the last of the reserves and I'm done. Yeah. I need fresh. It's like, you know, like, it's like you've been a vampire and you've been living off of we rats. We sucked the the same corpse we've been sucking on for this entire time and it's dry. Yeah.
02:17:12
Speaker
na not You know, it's so ensanguinated that like we're just like like chewing on the marrow. like There ain't nothing. There ain't a drop left. like i so So for me, like i' I'm done with it.
02:17:26
Speaker
Now, I know it can be achieved with it.
02:17:31
Speaker
And I got really high one time and i was like, oh man, this fucking film. And it kind of just gave me a realization that
02:17:39
Speaker
You know, dickhead can only be so good because it has its issues. There's just no getting around the issues it has. It just has issues. Yeah. And so there has to be an acceptance of that.
02:17:53
Speaker
And I've accepted it.
02:17:57
Speaker
But with that said, I also seen the edit. We've done the edit. We know what the edit can be. And as long as we can get that for VFX, sound, and color...
02:18:10
Speaker
even close to what that was, then we're going to be okay. And then it's just moving on to the next because I'm already proud of the film. You know, like we've worked with the edit. We pumped the volume.
02:18:25
Speaker
We know what the characters say. So I think whenever we show it to people, they don't exactly hear what everyone's saying. They don't exactly ingest it the same way we do because we're ingesting every single aspect of it. And it's like, dude, it's rich.
02:18:40
Speaker
This is a rich feast we've prepared for you. Even if you don't want to eat for eat of it.
02:18:48
Speaker
and And I'm at that point where I'm proud of it. you know I think this film is a lot better than it ever deserved to be that I even imagined. like I always imagined we were going to make a film and we were going to make a real film.
02:19:05
Speaker
But now it's a real film that I actually enjoy. i mean, I'll still watch it and laugh. yeah you know And I'm not laughing because like, yeah, I know that. I was ah farting in the background and that's that little sound you hear.
02:19:19
Speaker
No, it's like, yeah, that's actually a funny line. And, oh that's kind of clever. And, oh this is leading to that. And there's still things to unpack. You know, like when I was reading the script, I was like, oh, we wrote this?
02:19:31
Speaker
Okay, that's pretty good. And then also... Isn't that surreal? That's surreal, but also but happy accidents. That's a part of that where it's like, oh, we wrote this, but also this ties into that.
02:19:45
Speaker
That we didn't really plan for. But it works. And we had the idea of that tying into there.
02:19:55
Speaker
That was never really accomplished in the script or anywhere. But we made it happen through the edit if you want to look at it like that. And so it's this rich film that has its issues. You know, it's shot like The Room.
02:20:11
Speaker
You know, it's an ugly, shitty movie. But it has its...
02:20:21
Speaker
I mean, there's a sincerity in a and a genuineness that we've done with this film because we have put in 10 years of our lives into this.
02:20:36
Speaker
And I feel like it shows and I'm proud of it. So, yeah, I mean.
02:20:44
Speaker
i'm I'm done. I'm spent in that. I want to move on. Yeah. But with like where we're at now, where we're still waiting for sound to come together, we're still waiting for VFX to come together. We're still waiting for coloring.
02:20:58
Speaker
I mean, there's ah an aspect of me that just wants to be like, yeah, whatever. It's good enough. Let's just get it done. But then I have to stop and remind myself that no, get it right.
02:21:13
Speaker
Yeah. And with the sound that we're getting with the music, it isn't necessarily capturing what I imagined.
02:21:24
Speaker
But that's okay because it's capturing something its own. And this film needs to be something its own for once. it's been so It's been a copy of everything else this entire time.
02:21:38
Speaker
And now it has to be something of its own. And we can't achieve that because we're so biased to what it is. This is the first time that we're able to let go and let it be But we have to have, I guess it's like raising a kid.
02:21:58
Speaker
You know, it's like, no, man, you got to like Robocop. And the kid's like, man, this movie sucks. I like blues, clues more. are What is that? Bluesy or whatever it's called? Oh, bluey. I like bluey more than fucking Sesame Street. you know that shit's lame. Fuck Mr. Rogers. Like, oh, what the fuck? You're stupid.
02:22:17
Speaker
But it needs to it needs to have that. It needs to kind of grow beyond us now. And it's it's doing that. is? Yeah. and that's ah it's exciting...
02:22:31
Speaker
But it's terrifying and this is the... Well, yeah, because it's like a kid, right? It is. you Like you prepare them for the world and you try to show them all this good stuff and it's like, dude, I'm trying to um'm trying to shortcut you to a better life, you know? Yes.
02:22:47
Speaker
Like read Dostoevsky, don't read fucking Goosebumps, you know? Read Animal Farm, don't be on the farm. Yeah. Yeah. you know And we're trying to shortcut them shortcut it, but at the same time, it's kind of becoming its own independent thing and learning to let that go and and be what it is because we don't have the time anymore. We don't have the funds anymore.
02:23:13
Speaker
And we don't have the people anymore. We were it at the end. It was just you and me at the end of all of this. regardless of everyone else working so hard on this film it was at the end it was just you and me you know it's at the end of time who's left and it's just us like dickhead it's like chrono trigger there's like you get to the end of time and all the world is gone it's just this one little platform with like this guy in a hood and he's like
02:23:46
Speaker
Well, I know one left. Yeah, exactly. Call me Balthazar. My buddy went back to he went back to fuck all the bitches. Yeah, you know, and that's... Balthazar, fuck give you, you And that's where we've gone and where I feel like I've gotten to and it and it's time to finally move on.
02:24:08
Speaker
And, you know, we put all our... all the cards in our hand and into dickhead to play that bluff. And we're going to see what happens.
02:24:22
Speaker
And the reality is that nothing good will happen.
02:24:27
Speaker
But also the reality is, is that as long as, and for, you know, I, I've done other art stuff outside of filmmaking.
02:24:38
Speaker
So I have a sense of when I'm done with a, a project, and and dickhead is done for me as far as I can do and so now it's like okay well now it's time for you to go and be free and be on your own like be independent of me go out into the world now and yeah make me look good get me some more so get me some money you know get me the next project but also go out and be your own thing now
02:25:13
Speaker
And, you know, I'm sure, you know, my my feeling is that we'll be doing this podcast and we'll be telling people, hey, you can check out Debt Cat on our website and you can download it for $16.99. And
02:25:26
Speaker
and we'll get whatever profits we can from that to try to recoup our debt that we're going to get into further. And that's going to be that. But as long as we can be proud of it, and and I am proud of it, man. i You know, like,
02:25:42
Speaker
like Regardless of all the other things that need to be done, we got the edit. And we have the temp music. And we've seen what dickhead can be.
02:25:54
Speaker
I remember, and wasn't that long ago, you said you showed it to a friend. And the friend said, wow, you made a real movie. And i I remember thinking, because I was watching the film on the on the projector. And there's something different about watching like a movie on a really big screen.
02:26:14
Speaker
And I was watching it on the big screen and I was just thinking like, i don't know what it is, but it could be that it's the red, it's the cinematography that's like making it just a little bit more like and just feels real.
02:26:36
Speaker
And I hope that isn't blind egotism and I hope it's not just like
Creative Problem-Solving & Aspirations
02:26:48
Speaker
ah but like A lack of objectivity because it's been... want to believe. ah need to believe that that's not the case.
02:27:01
Speaker
I have to believe that. Because if I don't believe it, then what was the point of the last you know years and years and years?
02:27:12
Speaker
There's going to be a...
02:27:16
Speaker
There's going to be a reckoning...
02:27:20
Speaker
Because we have to answer for it.
02:27:24
Speaker
And that, there's a lot of fear in that for me because yeah, we have to answer for it. We have to answer for the time it took, the ah silence on our behalf. But part of that too was There's, we didn't have, like, if, and say, four years ago, 2020, right? The height of the pandemic.
02:27:53
Speaker
You know, if um Marianne and Chris and Richard, not Richard, Freeman and Max were like, hey, what what the fuck?
02:28:07
Speaker
Yeah. It would just be like,
02:28:10
Speaker
We're trying... were like i promise you we're trying. Yeah. Which we've always done. And I don't have a better answer other than... We're trying.
02:28:21
Speaker
We... And that's the...
02:28:26
Speaker
The thing I hope, and this is why i'm not afraid to just like completely swing for like when we were talking about, we have this like maybe have like, we might have a giallo kind of twisty kind of funky kind of soundtrack. Yeah.
02:28:43
Speaker
And it's like, we're just swinging it. Like one of the things that Steven did for the coloring, which I thought is brilliant is he added like a slight vignette. To a lot. To a lot. And I think, and you might watch and be like, oh, it's so pretentious, you know? And then we desaturate the film because like our color isn't great.
02:29:03
Speaker
you know You know? Well, we're not great. You know? And it's like, everything we have done has just been like, You know, ah i always think about that. There's that episode of The Simpsons where Homer clips all that. His back his fat to his back. Oh, yeah. And he's just like and then it you know he like he looks great in the front. And it's like in the back. You're like, you just don't see this. It's all the clothespins. Please don't see the clothespins for Dickhead. Because we're trying to hide those as much as we can.
02:29:35
Speaker
Because, yeah, we fucked up a lot. Um, you know, and if you would have went back, like go back to 2016 and like talk to Tom and Steve, Steven and be like, well, hey guys, like, are you thinking about like that transition from, uh, from Kevin's house to Tom's house?
02:30:00
Speaker
Yeah, we're asking neighbors that don't want to talk to us. and Yeah. You know, that we left a letter in their mailbox that, like, probably sounds like we're fucking stalkers. want to film.
02:30:14
Speaker
Can we ah put an actress in your window for a night? You know, and then it's just like, never hear back. um I don't know. Like, maybe no one even lived there. I don't fucking know.
02:30:26
Speaker
Like...
02:30:28
Speaker
But, you know, we found, like, we put a band-aid. We had a very leaky ship that we plugged a lot of holes. And, yeah, our thumbs and fingers and our toes. And, you know, we even, you know, fucked a couple holes to keep them plugged. You know, like, ah you know, our dicks are soggy and dried up.
02:30:46
Speaker
And we used all the Viagra. Every hole that we can find, we've tried to find a plug for. And if we couldn't plug it, we got through it as quick as possible. And that's, like, I know...
02:30:59
Speaker
You know, it's like our pacing might be a little fast, but it's like because we have to get through in some of the the aches and pains, right? It's like hopefully we get to the good stuff quick and the good stuff we stay on long enough for you to enjoy.
02:31:13
Speaker
And that's that was what we you know that was the the goal. And, you know, we might make similar mistakes in the future just going forward because...
02:31:25
Speaker
It's hard. rusty now It's hard. That's what, that's another thing I was thinking about was like, dude, we're, we're out of the game. Like, we yeah, we don't really, we don't make things. We don't have it made really, really like really made something like,
02:31:40
Speaker
that we've like really put in time and produced. And like, I remember what Alex was like, we need to cast recon. i was like, dude, I don't want cast. i don't want to fucking deal with that. You know how fucking much we had to deal with that for dickhead. Like, don't want to do that, dude. Like you do it.
02:31:56
Speaker
And a jog at night, you know, like, and a jog at night. Yeah. Like I, you know, that also use ups, uses up the reserves, you know, that uses up that good faith.
02:32:07
Speaker
I will say this though.
02:32:12
Speaker
I don't know where this filmmaking thing is going to go with me. I mean, I hope I can continue because I have ideas. i have a few films that I want to make and then that's it. You know, it's nothing to, I don't think I'm asking too much except for a few million, but I think,
02:32:32
Speaker
you know, if Dickhead doesn't go anywhere and it's like, well, this is what it is. I mean, maybe we can continue you continue the podcast and interview people and we can, you know, make this more of the focal point and make this its own thing. And just because it's fun, you know, interviewing filmmakers is fun and just learning is fun yeah regardless of if it's applied. Oh, it's exhilarating. It is completely, like I said.
02:32:56
Speaker
but But what I wanted to say is like,
02:33:01
Speaker
In the foreseeable future, even if the anthology film doesn't get made and just a jog at night is finished and it you know sent out to some film festivals and it falls wherever it falls.
02:33:12
Speaker
Green The only film I really see myself working on and possibly the last film, if nothing works out, is Bobolowski.
02:33:25
Speaker
And just fucking... my farewell to filmmaking and everything and just be like, so long as we they say goodbye, you know But making that film and just fucking getting that right.
02:33:43
Speaker
that'd be it That'd be a nice, fuck the period, we'll go for the exclamation point to this. For me, that that would be a nice way to leave it.
02:33:55
Speaker
Well, that's how Bubba ends, man. Yeah, yeah. You know, I mean, Bubba has a past, not a future. And and that that would be a nice way to do that because for that, I have clear ideas on how to approach that.
02:34:13
Speaker
Numerous ones. You know, like, okay, are we going actually have a trailer pull a car? Are we going to... how I would prefer, you know, we're going to use like a projector and make it look fake as fuck, but play into that.
02:34:27
Speaker
Like Quentin did in Pulp Fiction, right? When Bruce Willis is in the back of the car and it's all black and white background, like playing into that shit. And then, yeah, leaving it at that, you know, like,
02:34:41
Speaker
Oh, yeah. Just a couple of hoses simulating rain on the car. Yeah. I mean, you know, like I don't want Dickhead to be that film for me because it's not that film for me. You know, it was just like a fun thing to do have fun. And there was death to be extrapolated from that.
02:35:00
Speaker
I would want something more meaningful. Yeah, Dickhead was the education. And we're dumb, so it took a long time to learn. but not even the education. I mean, we just approached it from a perspective of fun.
02:35:13
Speaker
Well, I wish always looked at it as like it was film school. Yeah, yeah. But what I'm saying is like, you know, if I have my last film, I want it to be something that, okay, now I'm really trying.
02:35:30
Speaker
you know Whereas with Dickhead, it was like, yeah, we're really trying, obviously. We really tried, obviously. We're really trying. We tried hard. Ten years later, we're still trying. But you know what I'm saying? like Oh, I do. I do. Like, like but we're going with a 35 and we're going fucking wide. And I don't care if anyone's lit. We're going to go with silhouettes here. And we're going to have this beautiful landscape in the background that we're exposing for. we're going to get that setting sun.
02:35:55
Speaker
And we're going to do one take. And you know what? I don't want the actors to quite know this. the scene too well so they're just gonna read a synopsis and then we're gonna kind of ad lib and just go a little more natural like really fucking getting into the weeds of shit you know like like let's get a little artistic with this shit whereas with dickhead it was like let's just figure out how to make it work let's just figure out how to accomplish this part of the script whereas We haven't had a chance to to really just be artsy-fartsy with anything. We haven't had that chance. We've discovered that with Dickhead. Well, we didn't even discover that.
02:36:35
Speaker
We were just able to accomplish that with Dickhead and and and maybe make it work, but... you know i want to I want to do one where it's like, yeah, I'm just going to go fucking all out on this one. And then if that doesn't work, I'm okay with it because I know that I made something that I'm proud of.
02:36:54
Speaker
And then I can show the kids and be like, hey, you know, I tried this one, this thing one time. And they'll be like, oh, yeah, dad was always that tinker. you know, we'll be the dad from Gremlins with his inventions, you know, that never fucking work out.
02:37:08
Speaker
And he's that loser. But it's like, yeah, well, I had this one idea that was golden. And that you really got to see the full effort.
02:37:20
Speaker
Yeah, to me... And that could be Bublowski, man, where that's all just poured into that. Well, well well to me, Bubba is just... As bad of a script that is, you know? Because, I mean, like it's a good script, but also at the same time, that's us also fucking around. But I think that's good. It's definitely us fucking around. But but but it's good. it's It's good because we don't...
02:37:43
Speaker
and You know, I think the biggest problem with a lot of modern filmmakers is they take themselves too seriously. And I don't think you should. Because it's like, dude, you're not solving the economy.
02:37:57
Speaker
you didn't get you You didn't stop Trump from getting elected. You know? you're You're not fixing shit. yeah You didn't end right... Yeah, you didn you didn't end any of that.
02:38:09
Speaker
You made, yeah. You know, you gotta, you gotta, you have to understand your place. To go back to Norm. Well, you you know, you did like yeah, like Norm would stand up, right? Because Norm's like, man, some of these comedians get too preachy, right? That's what he was kind of against, even though he, I don't know if he ever said it outright.
02:38:27
Speaker
But Norm was very much against comedians getting... so far out of ah stand up and going into like where they're preaching and being on their soapbox. and And just kind of being humble, you know, having the humility to be like, look, I'm just making a film.
02:38:47
Speaker
And yes, I have illusions of grandeur, of course, but also still being humble enough to be like, look, I'm still just making a film for someone to enjoy and help them escape for 30 minutes, 15 minutes, five minutes of their life.
02:39:05
Speaker
You know, the funniest thing, and it's like almost like ah a comedy in the sense that Dante's Inferno is a comedy, is that ah Dickhead is our safe film. Mm-hmm.
02:39:16
Speaker
I mean, you know, it's like, like I said, it's it's us having training wheels because it's like, well, you know, like, we're gonna we did a loose satire slash parody.
02:39:35
Speaker
Yeah. Loose. Real loose. I mean, the beautiful thing about Dickhead in that it's a safe film is like, we took aspects of of things that we know that worked.
02:39:51
Speaker
And then we were like, well, let's get- no, no. I wouldn't even say things that worked. Just things we loved. Yeah, yes. Things that we loved. And then, because like, I always think about
02:40:04
Speaker
I always think about the fact that like... Dickhead could easily be two and a half hours.
02:40:12
Speaker
We got that much footage? We got a three hours plus of footage. Dickhead... I mean... And the thing is like... It's not like it's just like all this fat.
02:40:25
Speaker
it's It's more of the story being told. It's more it's more depth into the characters. It's like the... You know, we... we It's like we wrote a novel in a sense.
02:40:38
Speaker
Like if you go back and you look at like the story of Dickhead, it's like a novel. You know, we delved more into Lexi. We delved more. But then in the edit, we like, it's like, no, we got to focus on Clarice. We got to focus on Jennifer.
02:40:52
Speaker
Because, yeah, we love Lexi and we want more of her. Let's use that to make the audience want more of her. If we gave gave them more of her, then when we cut a back to Jennifer, they might be like, what the fuck?
02:41:11
Speaker
But I'm sorry, she's gone after a certain point. We just leave them wanting more, hopefully. And we leave them wanting more. And like you said, the only the the main the tragedy ah dick ken And the but taking so long is that we have those swing for the fences movies we want to make.
02:41:39
Speaker
Where it's like, okay, so we made we can make a movie. We know we can. We made Dickhead. We can make a movie. that's not the That's not even a question. like I don't care what anyone says. If they're like, this the worst fucking movie I've ever seen. It's like, you saw it.
02:41:55
Speaker
Gotcha. Gotcha. You know, I always say that, like, because I always tell Steven, like, it's
Future Creative Endeavors & Humility
02:41:59
Speaker
like, you know, like, if if ah if the camera's too shaky at 45 minutes, they made it 45 minutes to complain about it.
02:42:05
Speaker
We won. You know, the fuckers the fuckers watched at least 45 minutes. We won. um But it's like, we know we can do it. That's not a question. There's no question that we can't make a movie.
02:42:21
Speaker
I've seen the film. it's I've seen the film on the big screen. on I mean, it's not like ah the giant-est screen ever, but I've watched it on like you know the big screen, and like the big projector, and it's like, it fucking works as a ah movie.
02:42:36
Speaker
It worked. It does work.
02:42:39
Speaker
And there's just so much more to come. If given the opportunity. Given the opportunity, given the ability. but It might take us another 10 years to make another movie.
02:42:52
Speaker
hope not. Yeah. But there's more to come. Yeah. And that's always been there. There's more to come. There's... not i mean, sure, we have scripts written, ready to go. have a jock at night that's brit almost ready to go.
02:43:11
Speaker
we got... Shorts with Alex. Ready to go. There's more to come. And if you stick with us, we're going to come all over you.
02:43:26
Speaker
Cut.