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TSP Ep 138: Interview of Director Julian Sol Jordan
21 Plays29 days ago
In this episode, Tom and Steve get to talk to writer, director, editor, sound mixer, lead, and probably a hundred other things, Julian Sol Jordan. They discuss his feature film, Real Life, that was rejected by 30 film festivals and is picking up momentum. They delve a little into the life of Julian, his inspirations, his film, how it was made, and how to make an impact in social media.
So come along with us as we learn a thing or two!
If you would like to find out more about Julian, you can find him here:
https://www.juliansoljordan.com/
And if you would like to find his film, you can follow the link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rba3m6xGUmA
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Twin Shadows Podcast
00:00:00
Speaker
All right, Julian, how are you doing? Welcome to our show. ah We have you for about an hour. or You said about an hour, or yeah? so i do but i can do about an hour, yeah. Thank you guys for having me. This is awesome.
00:00:11
Speaker
All right, yeah. So let's ah let's get this on the road. So ah this is Twin Shadows Podcast, podcast about film, filmmakers, and filmmaking.
Julian Sol Jordan's Viral Reddit Story
00:00:18
Speaker
Today we have a special guest, ah the recent ah Reddit sensation slash kick-ass all-around dude. We got ah Julian Sol Jordan joining us on the show. What's going on? What's going on, guys? Thanks for joining us. Yeah.
00:00:34
Speaker
I think you're drinking a Modelo. Is that right? Is that on? Yeah. It's a, what do they call What are these? Cause there's the can of Modelo's, which I also have right here. I don't know why, but there's a can and then there's, what do they call him The gold something, but I like the glass a little bit more. I'd say i like the glass.
00:00:50
Speaker
I just call them a Modelo. I don't really. Yeah. all the All these, all this terminology nowadays. It's too much. What are you, what are you sipping on over there, Steven? I don't know the type, but it's a nutty brown bet it's nutty. That's all I know.
00:01:04
Speaker
All right. ah But Julian, yes, this ah yeah handsome young man on that is ah not me. that no one can see. in And then I'm Tom. I reached out and wanted to have you on the show.
00:01:15
Speaker
um So, we'll talk a little bit about your Reddit post, I guess, since that's kind of what connected us. You made this Reddit post about not making it into any film festivals, but then kind of having a local showing that sold out and posted the film and we watched
Impact of Social Media on Filmmaking
00:01:30
Speaker
it. So, we're going to talk about that. and So, what led you to writing the post?
00:01:35
Speaker
Yeah. um So I remember i I initially had posted the teaser trailer and being foolish, I posted it about a week before it came out on the same thread.
00:01:46
Speaker
And um it got around like 80,000 views on the on the thread. And i was like, Oh, that's crazy. you know But I didn't want to spam it. I didn't want to be like... you know And so I waited a couple weeks until it came out.
00:02:00
Speaker
And I had some people actually from that website come and comment and like, I watched it and it was really cool. And then... I was like, you know what? I'm going to make a follow-up and see if anyone...
00:02:11
Speaker
wants to, you know, if anyone remembers or anything, you know, it's been a but about a month and I posted it and it like did really good. it was really cool. And, you know, it's, um, I think like for any independent filmmaker, like those kinds of platforms, like Reddit and to be honest, like TikTok, like those kinds of things, like if you post your work on those sites and, you know, it's, it's, you know, interesting, if you have an interesting enough title, if it's, you know, um, people will respond and it was, uh, really
Learning from Film Festival Rejections
00:02:40
Speaker
cool. See all that.
00:02:42
Speaker
So then, since going to social media, have you seen ah Uptick in just the reception of your movie? Yeah. Um, so I, because, you know, i think that this is a, this is a movie for people, for younger people.
00:02:58
Speaker
And I think that, um, the internet is the best place to advertise it. And, um, because my, my, um, you know, my dream is like some kid a year from now sees it on Vimeo or Reddit or YouTube, whatever, and sees it at two in the morning.
00:03:15
Speaker
And they're just like, oh, I relate with that. and they find it online. um yeah And I think that definitely I've seen an uptick in it because you know you can post something and it can go into the void.
00:03:26
Speaker
And you know I think how many YouTube videos and stuff and posts are posted a day. you really have to so You really have to make yourself... um known and you really have to be vocal about what you're doing.
00:03:39
Speaker
And um that's the artist demise, right? It's like you make this thing, you pour yourself into this thing. And then the last thing you want to do is like talk about it. Cause you're just like, I've already, like, it's already, I'm moving on.
00:03:51
Speaker
And so in my head, I like, yeah, right. It's tough, dude. Like I do this, I do it a lot. And I was like, you know i'm just gonna, I'm gonna post it. And, um, you know, it's social media has been, cause you know, my phone is like,
00:04:05
Speaker
can those things can be addicting, but also that can change your life. It's a tool. Like you really have to use it and you really have to use it in a way that's like deliberate and intentional. um Doom scrolling here and there is not bad, but I think social media is like, you know, I think for any creative, like you really gotta, you really gotta utilize that stuff, you know?
00:04:25
Speaker
Yeah, for sure. And so, You know, things really took off once you went to social media, but before that you had done 30 film festivals, you said in your post?
00:04:37
Speaker
Yeah. So no, I submit i had submitted 30 film festivals. I had submitted to 30 film festivals. I got into I got into none. But learned from that.
00:04:48
Speaker
but i learned from that the importance of networking, the importance of getting your name out there. If anything, I really hope that this serves as like a calling card movie. And also with the film festivals, I really learned that I, about six or seven of them actually emailed me and were like, Hey,
00:05:07
Speaker
we didn't accept your movie, but it wasn't because it wasn't good. It's because there's politics. There's a lot of moving parts. There's films that need to be featured and whatnot. um So just know like, you know, we're watching, but you know, just make sure you keep submitting and
Successful Local Film Screening
00:05:22
Speaker
keep going. But um yeah, 30 film festivals I submitted to. And also,
00:05:28
Speaker
the more people I talk to, the more I realize like that's very common. Like your first project, when you submit, it's like, it's more like, well, we don't know if we want to accept you yet, but we were watching you, you know? And that's all I, if anything, like that's, you know, that's all I really care about. So.
00:05:47
Speaker
Yeah. that That's an interesting statement there because I've submitted some written works and I'll get responses like that in email. But the difference between you know writing something and making a whole film is like, ah you go I got to submit another film before you really notice me? you know that' That's a tall ask right there. Dude, no kidding.
00:06:09
Speaker
When you submitted to these film festivals, did you start from like the top tier festivals and work your way through like down from there or did you start at more local things and then go to the top like what was trajectory yeah definitely um so i didn't go crazy with the festivals like i wasn't doing the sundance it's like that that's more when you have like a star and you have like you know that's what that's become and that's not valid like i'm not like you know downplaying it. But I remember someone told me to submit to Slamdance. So I submitted to Slamdance in November of last year, but it was late and it was like kind of a work in progress. And um that was the first rejection I got. And it really broke my heart because I'd never gotten a film festival rejection before. And yeah I was like watching the analytics on Vimeo like, oh, they watched it, you know, and it started driving me crazy.
00:06:59
Speaker
but That was like, I remember that whole day I was so heartbroken. i was like, i knew I was going to get into that. But, you know, I hung the film festival or rejection letter on my wall, put it on my wall.
00:07:12
Speaker
I was like, I'm going to go there someday. but You know, regardless, I was just kind of submitting to like, I submitted to like some local ones like Dallas.
00:07:22
Speaker
ah I submitted to some like documentary film festivals. I submitted to, it was, i would say they're like maybe lower tier, mid tier film festivals. because i' like, well, ill definitely, um And it was all like either generic rejections or I would get some personal ones that were like list all the reasons why they liked it, but they couldn't find a spot for it, which makes sense. And in retrospect, I look back on it I'm like, it is, you know, it's not really, it's a personal movie and it's um I don't think that it's not watchable, but it's definitely like if you're in a film festival, I think film festivals show movies that are like intended for people to like buy a ticket for it.
00:07:58
Speaker
you know, and so I think it's like, that's why I think the internet and putting it on Vimeo and like YouTube and all those places like is a really good choice for the talk the kind of movie it is.
00:08:10
Speaker
And also the landscapes changing so much like you can make a movie, put on Vimeo or whatever and it gets all this, you know, gets a
Julian's Background and Influences
00:08:16
Speaker
lot of reception. But um I think that this was kind of the movie, this kind of movie was like it lives online, then maybe down the line, I put it on like a special features or something, you know, but Something I would want to bring up, so um sorry, Stephen, ah is you did you mentioned like the landscape changing. and It's kind of interesting because that festival circuit run, that heartbreak...
00:08:39
Speaker
It kind of helps build the underdog story for your film in a sense too. like Yeah. Like, hey, like we had actually – because it that you kind of got there with ah selling out a local crowd. like As a filmmaker, how how could you really ask for more? I mean, especially with ah ah a project like this. Exactly.
00:08:56
Speaker
We could definitely – we don't have a ton of time, but we could probably go into ah multiple hours talking about – how you put this all together and uh i mean yeah it was it was like because i you know i got those rejections and i was like dang i was like, well, you know, I surely I thought that I was going to get into Dallas and get into those local ones. But I was like, well, you know, I didn't I didn't really get into those. And so I was like, well, what am I going to do next?
00:09:22
Speaker
And um they were like the Texas Theater in Dallas is a historic theater. It's very like well-known theater. Amazing. That's said my favorite theater ever. It's beautiful. It's like really well done and kept. And that's where the Oak Cliff Film Festival happens, which I'm not sure if you guys are familiar with, but it's like a really cool neighborhood film festival.
00:09:38
Speaker
It's really popular. but I rented it out and i would put posters all over Dallas. Like I print out these flyers and I put them over Dallas and I would take pictures of the posters and put it on my Instagram, Facebook. And I would like spam it every day.
00:09:53
Speaker
We had like 160 something people come. I got pictures. I got my name on the marquee. And to be honest, the average movie goer, isn't really going to know the difference between ah whether you screen your movie at the festival and you have your marquee, your name on the marquee, or if you played it this other place, you know, though that's, that's important, but like, that's important for different reasons. I think people, after I start, after I played there at the theater, I got a little bit more, i don't want to use the word street cred, but it was a little bit more like, Oh, like,
00:10:27
Speaker
he's being serious is that that makes any sense but um it was it was great was so awesome so fun that's awesome well let's take it back let's take it back even earlier so did you grow up in texas is that where you hail from yeah so i'm dal i'm from dallas yeah i'm from dallas texas um I can't say I'm born and raised here. I was born in Missouri, but I moved to Dallas when I was a newborn. So I guess, you know, raised here my whole life. And um it's been great. And like, I went to a performing arts high school in Dallas called Booker t Washington.
00:11:05
Speaker
And so I've kind of just grown up here my whole life and the art scene and everything just really gotten to know Dallas and just, um yeah, I mean, it's great. That's awesome. So where did your appreciation for film come from?
00:11:18
Speaker
Yeah, man. So, i mean, I've always just like loved music, film, all that kind of stuff growing up. But my dad is um actually a filmmaker himself. Oh, wow. His name's Josh David Jordan.
00:11:30
Speaker
And he like like legit, really awesome movies. like i just edit like I've got a lot of editing experience from editing his last... two films, he's made two features and he's writing his third right now. And so my dad was kind of always like in this, in the zeitgeist of like, um, just filmmaking and art and that kind of stuff. But it was never like forced upon me in the sense that it was like, you're gonna, you know, here's a camera, you're going to make something. It was just kind of in my house.
00:11:58
Speaker
You know, I like, it was just kind of in the air and, like I would just like make stuff. And a lot of my friends actually, like I had some friends that like to make little home movies. had like a little flip camera. I mean, my brother would make videos.
00:12:10
Speaker
And so I just started to gravitate towards it. And I don't know. I mean, I'm really not sure what exactly like sparked that inspiration for me or whatever. But I think it was just being around it my whole life, you know?
00:12:22
Speaker
Yeah, that sounds really awesome. So then aside from your dad, what other filmmakers have stood out to you, maybe inspired you and and what films? Oh, man.
00:12:34
Speaker
um That's a tough one. someone asked me this and it's like when someone asks you like what your favorite book is and you forget all your favorite books you're like my gosh well if they already asked you come on man you must have yeah i was stumped i was stumped when they asked me but um let me see i mean richard linkletter is a big one like just because he's from austin and texas and like he's just all of his films kind of reek of like that nostalgic youth and whatnot um he's a big influence in just terms of coming of age stories and all of that.
00:13:05
Speaker
Um, we had brought him up a couple of times while watching. Oh, really? I was like, all definitely got those vibes like a slacker. Yeah. Like just, like yeah, I would.
00:13:16
Speaker
And that's the thing is like, I've been watching some of his films and like, um just kind of reading and listening to criteria and stuff on his. And it's just like, can't wait to like really do a film with the script that kind of feels like that.
00:13:27
Speaker
Um, this was more documentary, but I mean, yeah, i mean, he's a big one. um man i mean i just i guess i'm just really drawn to like coming of age films in general um but i've also like grew up just like watching a bunch of random different films that really inspire me like on my favorite films list like you got no country for old men but then you also have like napoleon dynamite and then you have like it like i've i'm not really sure exactly what i would say my influence is i'm just a really big fan of films that like man, I don't know. Just films that have like just a, uh, unique kind of style to them and vibe.
00:14:04
Speaker
Um, but man, this is a question that I need to practice. Cause like, yeah everyone ask that I am like, I need to practice that one. Cause I'm not, i get s stumped, but, um, yeah, I don't know. Just films about human experience, coming of age films, um, obviously link letter stuff. And, um,
00:14:24
Speaker
I don't know. i'm um I just really love films that just have like, just like a, you walk away from them, but just having to think about it a little bit. i like films that allow you to participate in in the film going experience. but um Your dad, he's he has two features under his belt.
Creative Process and Musical Influence
00:14:40
Speaker
What are the titles of those?
00:14:41
Speaker
So if anyone wants to look them up. Yeah, the first film is called This World Won't Break. And that film went to like 14 festivals. Like it went to Nashville, Glasgow, like Dallas. Like it went to a bunch of really cool, it was my dad's first film.
00:14:56
Speaker
And it looks like a million dollar movie. Like it looks amazing. And they made it for 30 grand, 36 grand. wow And it was like just blood, like literally blood, sweat and tears, like literal, like literal. And so that was my first time actually editing something that caliber. I think I was 17 when I edited that movie. Wow.
00:15:18
Speaker
And it's like a modern day musical. So it's kind of like, it's Texas. It's like kind of got some classic Western feels to it, but it has amazing music in it, amazing visuals. um And it's, I don't know, if it's a great movie and I have fond memories of that. And then the second film, it's complete 180. Cause because His first film was a little bit more colorful and kind of like, and the second film, it's coming out early next year and they're starting to do some tours around the United States with it.
00:15:48
Speaker
But it's called El Tonto Pro Cristo, which is a Spanish title. That means The Fool for Christ. And it's not a religious film, if you're wondering. It's actually a drama. And essentially, if there's these...
00:15:59
Speaker
There's these stories of these Orthodox monks that are throughout history seen as crazy monks, like they've lost their mind, but actually it's because they have like a divine connection that no one else has, but people look at them as crazy. So it's like this black and white film, European style cinema.
00:16:18
Speaker
um It's really great, an amazing score, really beautifully shot. um And it should be out spring of next year, but his third film is under wraps obviously, but.
00:16:29
Speaker
He's a, he's great filmmaker. You should check out his work for sure. And then you, you did the, you did the editing for all the projects. Yeah. So both films I edited, the first one I co-edited with him and the second one, he just left me up to do it.
00:16:44
Speaker
um And they challenged me greatly, but they were really just great experiences. Yeah. Well, I think that experience shows because in your film, one of the strong things I felt about it was the editing and the pacing of everything.
00:17:00
Speaker
Oh, cool. um It felt engaging throughout. But with your dad being a filmmaker and you now getting into filmmaking, what? Is there any conflict there? Or right what's that like? Like, you know, yeah like they always say that that the son being in the shadow of the father. is yeah is that an issue?
00:17:22
Speaker
That's a really interesting thing. It's never, ever been an issue. And I think just because my family is so like... open and collaborative and just like always helping each other out on stuff. Like there's, it's really never been a case of that. Um, I can see how from an outsider, like perspective, it could, like, obviously it look, could look like that, but it's really like, I mean, dude, we were big fans of each other's stuff and we always help ah out on each other's stuff. And you know, my dad is like, um, cause I also do music with my friend. We have an indie band that's actually been doing,
00:17:55
Speaker
pretty well recently, which is really nice. Um, but you know, my dad has his thing and he has his own voice. It's like very different from what I do. Um, and I'm not sure why, but you know, it's, it's always just kind of been like, we just get excited about each other's stuff. It's never really been any sort of competition, but if, if there is any competition, it's more just kind of like, ah, like you did something good. I'm going to one up you, you know what mean? Like in a yeah loving way, you know? Yeah.
00:18:21
Speaker
But yeah. No, that's awesome to have that base of just positive collaboration and inspiration, motivation. That's really awesome. um Was ah your band, was any of the music featured in your feature?
00:18:38
Speaker
See, that was something that I was... Because there was some good music in there. Yeah, that was my friend Wolfgang. He's a composer and musician and So that's all of his music. But there's a scene in the movie where there's, I'm in this forest with my friend and he's like talking about like, he's like on this rope swing and he's kind of contemplating about like ah taking that leap into his life and whatnot. That's my bandmate. So it's the two of us.
00:19:04
Speaker
um But there's none of our music's in there. i just, I don't know why. It just didn't really fit. But also like, you know, we make more like upbeat indie pop music. um So I'm not sure if it really fit, but I'd love to do something.
Creating 'Real Life' with Archival Footage
00:19:17
Speaker
Well, with a name like Wolfgang, I mean, he should be in music, right? I mean, it's like predestined. I'm not kidding. Yeah. Yeah. the and the the I was going to say the band is called Sunrise Academy.
00:19:29
Speaker
You guys want to check it out? Yeah. I got the music video for Sunkist open right now. Oh, cool. Awesome. Check it out. Yeah. Right on. Wow. So um I kind of want to do, I do want to talk about the movie a little bit. Dude, yeah.
00:19:42
Speaker
So, When was the point where you were like, hey, this is how I want to tackle this? Because there's definitely, I'm guessing, just all this archive footage that you had.
00:19:55
Speaker
and were you like, what can I do with this? Or how what was that impetus? For sure. um it was a really personal, visceral experience making personal kind of like visceral experience making it um There was a lot of just random footage that I had. So, you know, my friends would have a party or something. I'd just bring my camera.
00:20:17
Speaker
ah ah had like a lot of like, and there's a scene in the movie where I go in the attic and I find all these old clips and movies and VHS cassettes. And was real. Like all this stuff that I found, like in the back of my attics in the movie was all dusty. And um so I had a lot of archival stuff to work with there.
00:20:33
Speaker
But in terms of putting it all together, it was really strange because it was like, there's like this whole cacophony of footage that I have, but it's like, well, what do I do with it? And I had a plan in a way, like the film was kind of narratively like ah structured and paced out. but when it, when push came to shove and I started editing it, like a lot of it was being rejected. Like a lot of ideas that I thought were going to work and shots that I thought needed to be in it and footage, it just didn't feel right. Like for some reason, like there's a lot of stuff that I cut out and that's why like in the next film, can't wait to have control over the narrative.
00:21:08
Speaker
so that I can actually like be the overseer instead of being in it. Cause that was kind of like confusing to me a little bit, but um yeah, I had shaved off a lot of stuff just to have a sort of cohesive flow to it But i had like a whiteboard, ah journal, like some notes and the whiteboard was kind of like the structure of the movie. If you watch in the movie, you can see the the shot of the whiteboards in the yeah and I'm like writing on it. That's real. Like that's like an actual, um,
00:21:35
Speaker
And then obviously I filmed it and it gets more meta. But um yeah, I mean, that's really just how I structured it. Like literally just my whiteboard in my room, journals and notes on my phone.
00:21:46
Speaker
One thing I wanted to talk about is, is all that footage and coming from the editing perspective, What was that like? Essentially, did you just make a bunch of notes to kind of find any kind of narrative link?
00:22:01
Speaker
There's so much like archival footage that you have that you sort through. i can't imagine the spain the painstaking experience of going through all that just to find those little clips, those little nuggets.
00:22:15
Speaker
No kidding. So can talk about that? Because that must have been hell. or it was It was a little bit. Yeah. Because there's a lot of footage in the movie where essentially, ah in my eyes, like the movie, the overall arcing theme of the movie and why there's so much archival footage and stuff of me as a child and is of course because of memory, but also I think it's kind of the contrast between just being an adult and being a kid because those are two drastically different times in your life. And I think when you're a kid, you're filming stuff and making stuff just to create it and it's coming out of you.
00:22:52
Speaker
As an adult, as you can see, there's a lot of 8K nice footage of me, but it's not as fun compared to the stuff is me of me as a kid. And I think that's the whole kind of tug of war in the film is like,
00:23:06
Speaker
You know, you have to have you have to have fun. you You can't be so perfect with it. So going back and looking at all of the footage, it was it was hard. Like a lot of the childhood footage from a cracked iPhone that I found was like in my back my closet. And I was like, oh, I plugged it in. There's a bunch of them plugged all these stuff in. And I was like, it was the only one that worked sorted through it for hours.
00:23:27
Speaker
had to find little clips that worked. And it was hard, dude. Like it was like, it took a lot of willpower, just a lot of time to like sit there and look through stuff. And, you know, I found my parents wedding on some random thing. Like it was really hard. And, um, I mean, I probably had hours of footage and just random stuff of my friends and,
00:23:47
Speaker
Um, so it was really hard. It was like, I kind of had to throw it on the timeline and then be like, that doesn't work. That doesn't work. That doesn't work. So, you know, it's filmmaking that way is like, it works. It's just, it takes longer. Cause you're kind of working with just random stuff and you're like, okay, I guess, I guess this works. I guess this doesn't work. Um,
00:24:08
Speaker
So, like I said before, script is going to save my ass next
Themes of Loneliness and Community
00:24:13
Speaker
time. One thing I want to throw out there too real quick before I know Stephen was going to dive in.
00:24:19
Speaker
What is that? You mentioned juxtaposition. And one of the ah things I was noticing is that essentially the modern shots, like you said, the nice, like those very like beautiful, just artistic shots, they're very lonely. They feel very lonely. Is that an intention where the nostalgic...
00:24:37
Speaker
the pullback videos are, they're not lonely. yeah they're It's you at parties. It's you with friends. It's you talking in people. always It's always with you interacting with somebody. And then you juxtapose this to you just alone in a field. Exactly. And it was that an intention that you had or i how did that come about?
00:24:56
Speaker
Yeah, dude, it was definitely an intention. And I think that like, like you said, like, a lot of the stuff, the modern day footage of like, you know, life happening and stuff. I think that the shots where it comes back to me, and I'm alone is like, you can party, you can hang out with your friends. But when you're in your early 20s, when that's all said and done, you're standing in a freaking bedroom by yourself, like,
00:25:19
Speaker
You know what mean? We've all been there. You know, you can party, you can do this and that. But at the end of the day, the realness is the, I'm alone in my room. But it's also like- We're used to being alone in our room, Tom, buddy. Dude, I mean, but also like going back to the nostalgia, going back to the come back to the ah archival stuff of like me as a kid and like my family and weddings and stuff. It's like, the whole idea is like,
00:25:45
Speaker
you can look at the past, but the answers won't be in the past. That's, that's done. You know, like that's already happened. And the, the, the time, the the prison is now. And I think that the,
00:25:58
Speaker
point of it was like, you know, in the beginning of the movie, I start to use the camera as a vessel for not being alone. But as the movie progresses, I start to almost use it as a tool for like destruction.
00:26:10
Speaker
And it's like, I'm just filming myself alone in my room, or I'm like filming myself, you know, getting billed by the IRS. And I'm only focusing on that.
00:26:22
Speaker
And it's like, well, that's the plot, right? That's that's it. And it's like, it kind of ties into like changing the narrative of your life. Like you can focus on what you want to focus on.
00:26:34
Speaker
It's going to be there, but it and matters. Like, so that's why towards not giving anyone any spoilers, but like, you know, as the movie progresses, the ah loneliness isn't as present, I guess.
00:26:47
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, so with what you shot, um because I do want to ask you something else, but I do want to follow up. But with what you shot, how much footage just ended up on like the cutting room floor, essentially?
00:27:01
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, dude, I had so many. um literally really like filmed like days of like more than days of footage. like I remember like I had this whole idea, and it's towards the beginning of the movie, where i'm like there's these interviews of my friends, and they're kind of grappling with some stuff.
00:27:15
Speaker
I remember there's this one shot where it's like six of my friends and they're all talking. And I had like planned this day for like months. had like gotten everything. I think I used like 10 seconds of it in the movie. And I was like, oh my gosh, what am I doing?
00:27:31
Speaker
um hours for sure. like There's like hours of stuff that's just not used. like It seems like hundreds of hours. Yeah. like just like just it's just yeah like and I think that was the challenge. and like um I don't know. It was definitely like there's a part of me that's like, ah like I wish because I think like at the end of the day, i realized like, okay, people are going watch this. So it can't just like be me like at the grocery store for three minutes. Like I got to like, you know what i mean? Like I would like to see that because that's how cinematically that's cool to me. But I also had to be like, well, I got to make it watchable.
00:28:08
Speaker
um So, yeah, I mean, there's definitely tens of hours. i Maybe you not hundreds. I don't know. i don't know. I mean, there's so much old archival stuff that I didn't use either. So, yeah, there's a lot, man, that didn't get used. but i you know I mean, it felt like that. So did you just...
00:28:27
Speaker
whip out the camera and start recording? Or was it, like you said, just a lot of planning? This the day I'm going to shoot. um So there were some days for sure that was like,
00:28:38
Speaker
you know, there's there's a sequence in the movie that's like, because if you watch the movie, there actually is a lot of footage that's was not
Networking and Future Projects
00:28:46
Speaker
planned. Like that was just me with my camera filming. But um there are a lot of things that when you watch the movie, like there's this sequence towards the end when I'm starting to get kind of lost, that's like three or four minutes of like,
00:28:58
Speaker
parties. Like it's really crazy. It's like this party sequence. And that was literally like that wasn't I didn't actually want to go to those parties. Like I planned to go there to get the footage, but I planned it so it looks candid like there's GoPros and like so it looks like it's on the spot, but I think it was just kind of a mix. Like there was a lot that was not planned, but a lot of it was, uh, predetermined for sure.
00:29:23
Speaker
Um, and i think that was the challenge was like finding a balance between something that was predetermined, but also looks authentic at the same time. Yeah. Um, and that was kind of the thing I had to kind of figure out throughout it. But, um, yeah, I don't know. I would say it's probably half and half, I would say.
00:29:43
Speaker
Well, I definitely think you excelled at that um with the candidness of it. So then when describing or looking at this film real life, is it, how would you classify it? Like, how is it a documentary? How much of it is scripted? How much of it is unscripted? Like, yeah what else is this?
00:30:04
Speaker
Yeah, no, that's a good answer. mean, our question, I mean, honestly, man, like, I think it's also a reason I didn't get into like a couple of film festivals because I submitted a documentary, it's not really documentary. And one of them I submitted a narrative, but I realized it was, I guess like it's kind of, i would say it's like a hybrid movie. So it's like,
00:30:23
Speaker
I would say majority wise probably document a document of this period, but it has narrative qualities and I'm a big fan of films that are like that. It's like cinema.
00:30:35
Speaker
Verite, I think is the term cinema Verite where it's like you're not really able. There's a lot of kind of rules that are being broken. um and I'm a big fan of that. So i guess majority documentary, but yeah, i would just say hybrid probably.
00:30:51
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, it felt like a ah fictional autobiography. And yeah one of the things I liked most about the film was just... The candidness, you know, you're you're a lot younger than I am, so it's nice to have that glimpse into youth and what you guys are dealing with.
00:31:10
Speaker
And also a little bit rough reassuring, I guess, in a sense it's like, oh yeah, you guys are going through the same shit. Right, like it's universal, yeah. Yeah, yeah, to see that that universality to it all, right?
00:31:26
Speaker
yeah um Still grappling with the same... ah Questions. and Questions, yeah. and yeah And also, you know, you really did capture some some'm really poignant moments. Two that stood stood out to me was your musician friend when he's talking about wanting to do music and the conflict of being comfortable.
00:31:48
Speaker
Yeah. You know, which which is a pretty mature ah perspective because I don't think a lot of people realize just how how much you can conform your life to just being comfortable and how much you can take away from we're creatures of habit, man. I mean, I get into it. Like I get up every day. So I have days where I'm just like, it's a week. of just like, why am I not?
00:32:12
Speaker
you know, like, why am I not doing it? Why? Because I'm comfortable. Like we get comfortable and that's where a lot of growth happens. though you know Yeah. You know, all about being comfortable.
00:32:22
Speaker
man Tom looks real comfortable right now. Got a nice little drink of my hand. How can I complain? Yeah, that's funny. um So, Julian, I want to talk about some other stuff because...
00:32:37
Speaker
you talked to You've been bringing it up, doing something more controlled, more narrative. where Where is that at? Where are you now with that? Yeah. um So, you know I've been having to get this thing off the ground and then got all the music stuff. That's also another beast. But right now I'm actually working on, I'm editing a short film for my girlfriend that we just made. it was, I DP'd it and I edited it.
00:33:04
Speaker
Is this a girlfriend in the, in the film? Yeah, yeah, yeah, it is. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, yeah, actually met her while i was making the film and i was like, that's awesome. But, um, yeah, So I'm getting getting that done. And um that's kind of, she's a great actress. She's amazing actress, but she is trying, she really wanted to be in something like, I don't want to use the word. She really wanted to like be in something that she thought was her good fit for her So she wrote her own movie and directed it.
00:33:35
Speaker
And I shot it for her and edited it for her. And it's really cool. It's really cool. It's called candy. It should be out ah probably later this year. or so or maybe next year, but anyways, I'm trying to write some short films right now, trying to get some stuff to get those gears turning. But I have a script that I'm writing. It's a feature-length script. And actually had the idea before Real Life. It was like a seed of an idea.
00:33:56
Speaker
But um it's also coming of age. And it's kind of about like... yeah just, I guess, how time changes us over over time. And it it has similar themes, but it's way more narrative and kind of guerrilla style type
Balancing Film and Personal Life
00:34:11
Speaker
filmmaking. But I'm really excited about that one. I'm trying to see where it goes.
00:34:14
Speaker
um But in the meantime, I'm just really trying my best to like network with people, sending off emails, um social media, just really trying my best to like get in that kind of circle of There's this, I think like there's this kind of always, there's always like a group of filmmakers or artists all kind of going up at the same time, not going up, but kind of working at the same time. so I'm trying my best to find those. And that's kind of a full-time job itself is like networking. And like, I'm sure y'all know that.
00:34:43
Speaker
I mean, that's kind of the whole ah point of this podcast, really. Yeah. Yeah. No, dude. I mean, it's, it's, it's, it's a, it's a beast. And so I'm trying my best to do that because I think it's as important. Like I think creating stuff and filmmaking and and whatnot is, is obviously the most important thing without that. you're not doing anything, but I think,
00:35:03
Speaker
equally as important as that is making sure that you're shaking the right hands and introducing yourself to the right people and, and, and saying hello and networking and talking to people and, um, just, you know, kind trying to figure it out and just staying in that world. And so I'm trying to balance both and it's, um, they're both equally as important, but you know, it's wild. That's, um, I think that's really mature because it's not,
00:35:32
Speaker
I think it's something a lot of people are just like, oh, just go make your short film. Go make your short film. But at the end of the day, if you know somebody that can help you, that's going to be better than a lot of short films that people are putting out.
00:35:45
Speaker
And it's also like… if you just want to make films to make films and you don't want to do totally valid, like I like to make stuff just to make it like it doesn't, that doesn't always need to be like a like what's the next thing that happens after that? Like sometimes you just need to make stuff. But if you're, if your goal is to also make stuff,
00:36:03
Speaker
and kind of find sustainability with it, I think it's i think it's important to also make sure that like maybe the right people are seeing it or or or saying hi to those people or getting your face. Like I got rejected from my local film festivals, but I still went and I still went and I shook their hand. I said, hey, but nice to meet you.
00:36:24
Speaker
You're like, hey man, you rejected me, bro. Yeah, well, I think there was like, there's definitely like a sense of, Like, I know, we know who you are, but it's kind of like, who you are. We know where you live.
00:36:38
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. ah But yeah, I mean it was definitely a sense of that, but also like, you know, um I don't know. I just think it's important to like, make sure you you know, introducing yourself and kind getting in that hemisphere, but.
00:36:52
Speaker
Well, let me ask you because Tom and I, we're working on our on our first feature. That's pretty much what this podcast is about. um So I won't go into it. But one thing that I felt personally is just the exhaustion because we've been working on our feature for 10 years now.
00:37:13
Speaker
it It is a 10 decade long movie. If you see it, you won't be like, damn, that you'll be like, damn, that took him 10 years. I'm doing all right. Sometimes you never know, man. Sometimes times things just take longer. Well, also, you know, like... Sometimes when we touch, the honesty is too much.
00:37:32
Speaker
But also just the the marketability, like you doing the 30 film festivals, I think that's one thing that stuck out to us and why we delved deeper and brought you on. Yeah.
00:37:43
Speaker
But... like For me, going into and another feature, it just sounds so exhaustive, maybe because of how long we've been doing this. I'm sure that's right a huge part of it.
00:37:55
Speaker
So with your next feature coming up, do you what's what's the mentality? Are you like ready to get back in there? Or are is there some, I don't know, hesitation at all?
00:38:06
Speaker
there there's There's always a hesitation because when you give yourself up to something... when you express yourself in such a singular way, you there's after releasing this, like i've I've been experiencing a little bit of a postpartum depression in the sense that like it's kind of I'm kind of faced with what's next. And as an artist, that's kind of scary. And that's why its I think it's important to like hang out with your friends and like do stuff like after you make something, because it's kind of like you've given yourself to something so much that like when it's done, you're like, what do I do with myself?
DIY Filmmaking Approach
00:38:39
Speaker
But i think that, you know, I think it's important to like jump into the next thing or at least be writing. And that's something that I'm really starting to learn. um And at least for me, it doesn't work for everyone. But the way that I cure that is just,
00:38:54
Speaker
figuring out what's next and doing, and, you know, working on whatever's next and, you know, um, seeing where it goes. And, um, so right now I'm, you know, I'm trying to figure out all the pieces for it, but, um, I also do I'm going to be completely honest. Like I'm, I have time I'm young. Like I'm not, you know, I'm, I'm cool. Like I could not do anything for the next four, six years and I'm chill. Like nothing's wrong. Like, but for me, I'm like, well,
00:39:22
Speaker
you know, coming off this, it would be cool to like already have something else I'm doing, you know, cause people, people always ask that. What do you, do what's your, do you have anything you're working on now? Like, what what are you working on now? People always ask that. I think it's like important to like have at at least an idea or at least like a something. Um, and so I see like this little window right now of, okay, you know, i got some momentum with this, like what's next, you know?
00:39:46
Speaker
Um, and it also just cures that things that artists, you know, depression, but, That's interesting. I forgot my follow-up question there. God damn it.
00:39:58
Speaker
That's what happens when you drink on the podcast. That Nutty Brown's already hitting me. no Let's see. ah feel God damn it. I was asking about the fear of it.
00:40:10
Speaker
Ah, fuck. I forgot. But I did want to know for this film, because, you know, one of the, I think one of the also other, oh yeah, this is what i want to ask. One of the other issues with getting back and doing another feature, ah is the cost of it. Like for Tom and I, we've, we've paid for this out of pocket and it's cost us a lot.
00:40:30
Speaker
So the idea of starting another feature and going into as much debt I was, as we've been in, you know, but it's not very lucrative. Uh, so how much did this film, how much did real life cost you? And then what's the budget for the next film?
00:40:47
Speaker
Yeah. Um, my camera My black magic camera was about $3,500. The pocket cinema camera? Pocket cinema 6K.
00:40:58
Speaker
Yeah. Oh, nice. We got the 4K. Dude, they're great. They're great. Yeah, they are. They're fantastic. um People are always like, wow, the sensor. No, dude. Like, it's great. It's a great camera.
00:41:10
Speaker
um And they work. They work. And also, I've shown this movie to so many people. No one's like, that doesn't look like a red. you know what I mean? like um But anyways, for real life, I'll be honest,
00:41:25
Speaker
cost me some pizza and beers for my friends. That's the way to do it. And I'm sure like couple hundred bucks, we start a thousand dollars, grant but you know, but, yeah um but you know, and it was because it was just me, you know, and that's not the case for every movie. Like I'm just, I just put myself through hell and that was my price, you know, but um for the next feature, I'd love to be in like,
00:41:51
Speaker
I mean, I would still love to do a gorilla style and I would not like to go for like 40 or something for DK. Like I would like to keep it there because I want to shoot it myself, edit it myself, direct it, write it like those four things I don't need to pay for, you know, and then I have a star in it. ah Are you going to start in it again?
00:42:12
Speaker
Man, I mean, I always see myself in the stuff that I write.
Audio Strategies in 'Real Life'
00:42:15
Speaker
So like, if I do, i mean, maybe have like a camera operator or something or I will not, but I love shooting stuff. That's the thing, man. I'm wrestling with that right now. Like, I'm like, well, if I'm in it, how can I kind of shoot it?
00:42:26
Speaker
But, um, I don't know. I mean, we'll see, but yeah, I mean, I would love to keep it kind of smaller still. And honestly, try my best to pay out of pocket and just get some friends and family to help me out and like, just just do it, you know, but,
00:42:42
Speaker
um I don't know. you know or well we'll We'll see how much. Cross that bridge when you get there, huh? One thing that stood out to me for your feature, and we always talked about this for small films like ours, is audio.
00:42:57
Speaker
And one thing I noticed in real life is you had pretty darn good audio for the most part. Or at least I could hear what was going on, which is important. and So how how did you get the audio? Did you have lobs? Was it ADR'd?
00:43:08
Speaker
Yeah, so there's one scene in the movie that's ADR. And and my so essentially lot of it's on camera like audio but i eq'd a lot of it so i like i figured out how to like kind of eq and compress stuff on my computer like turn down frequencies that sounded bad like because if i'm using the vhs camera when you watch it at least i don't think tell me if i'm wrong but when you watch it there was never a moment when the vhs camera came on you're like ah No.
00:43:38
Speaker
Okay, cool. Cause like v entire film cool because the camera had a horrible, it had a horrible like kind of sound. So you go in and EQ it, but yeah the, the microphones, um, there's a sound mixer, sound boom operator. That's a friend of ours.
00:43:54
Speaker
And i was just fortunate enough where he let me, but like he let me use some lobs and like a boom. I didn't really use the boom very much, but I used a lot of lobs. And then, a lot of its voiceover.
00:44:05
Speaker
so I would just use this mic right here Sure. Nice. Hey, that's what we You one right there, right? Yeah, both do. Yeah. you both have one, yeah. I would use that and just, I would literally just be my room like this and just say it.
00:44:18
Speaker
And then um I mixed all of it. And then I had a buddy of mine that's like a musician. He's never mixed anything, but he helped me compress some stuff and like level some stuff. But I was very pertinent about the way it sounds.
00:44:30
Speaker
And obviously when I watch it back now, I'm like, oh, that's too loud. That's too, whatever. Like, I'll fix that later if we do, if we release it or something. But- Well, I'll say ah as an outsider, i didn't catch anything like that. I mean, um ah i have monitors because this is my little studio space.
00:44:47
Speaker
Cool. And I watched it on the monitors. I didn't hear anything. And then I have my cans, which are for monitoring too. Yeah. and Yeah, it sounded good to me. Cool, man. I mean, that's the thank you. I mean, that was the that was the goal. And like, also, to be honest, man, like, I think I did a little trick when I was editing it is there's a lot of footage that's VHS footage, right? It's like VHS or like archival footage.
00:45:07
Speaker
A trick that I did was, well, some of that footage sounds like crap. What I can do is put subtitles on it. And not only can people read it but it gives it an aesthetic. You know what i mean? It's like it gives the aesthetic of this is raw.
00:45:22
Speaker
Right. And so I think those are little tricks that I would do.
Embracing Lo-Fi Aesthetics
00:45:25
Speaker
um And then just, you know, I tried my best to EQ everything and level everything. So I mixed the whole thing. And it was really like I learned a lot. Like I'm just this is a learning experience for me. But um well yeah also with that uh vhs footage i mean once you show that on the screen i think there's some forgiveness in the audio quality right yeah because when you see vhs tapes like that yeah like okay you're assuming it's not going to sound that great exactly it would be more it would be more weird if it sounded good you know i mean like yeah would it would feel it would feel weird you know if it was too clean yeah that's a good point interesting um
00:46:03
Speaker
ah Yeah, I mean, it was so true, though. Yeah. And so those are things that I think as indie filmmakers and as filmmakers that are at least people, people my age, is one piece of advice is you're not going to be able to compete with Marvel.
00:46:18
Speaker
You're not going to be able to compete with these giant budget movies, but what you can do is you can maybe lean into those lo-fi aesthetics and use them to your advantage and maybe weave them into the story in some ways.
00:46:31
Speaker
um But that was one thing I i just tried to lean on because I was like, well, making it by myself, you know, I'm not going to have the greatest quality. Well, you know, and that was kind of a reason that I made it in the first place because I was like, well, that's kind of cool. It's kind of a cool, yeah you know,
00:46:47
Speaker
Well, that's one thing we always preach to people is shooting something that you can do. Yeah. And, you know, just seeing you with that camera in these relocations, just going around with your friends, it was like, this is exactly what we talk about. Like, it looks so awesome. Just you capturing these...
00:47:03
Speaker
These unique places, like when you guys are, what is that called? Like urban exploring or whatever, just going to these abandoned buildings. Yeah. You know, that that was such like a great location piece yeah and the parties. I mean, just throughout it, like you really captured the the day in the life of very well.
00:47:22
Speaker
Cool. And that just leaned itself so well to... to creating this bigger picture that you you did with real life. Thanks, man. Yeah. really liked it a lot. Thank you. I really appreciate it. That was like very, that was very like, that was something that i was very intentional about. was like, okay, well, I don't have money, but what do I have that I can do for free? And it was either the, you know, the abandoned building or it was like climbing the train station.
00:47:48
Speaker
I'm not condoning a illegal activity, but I will say just ask for Forgiveness, not permission. you know Condone all the illegal activity. Yeah, exactly. yeah Man, that's something we ah talk all about too all too well.
00:48:06
Speaker
Yeah. Gotta do it, man. I mean, it's not an easy thing to make a film and it's even harder to do it the right way or legal way,
Role of Networking in Film Exposure
00:48:17
Speaker
I guess.
00:48:17
Speaker
Yeah, no kidding, dude. It's tough. It is tough. and like i don't see my I don't see my days of illegal guerrilla filmmaking ending anytime soon.
00:48:28
Speaker
But it's just because... like But like i'm I'm serious. like Who's going watch that and be like, wait, he broke into that building and then like get me and take me to court? It's not going to happen. like yeah I will say, though, if you're filming your friends smoking weed, get them to sign a release forms.
00:48:44
Speaker
That's one thing I did. it like You just don't want anyone to be like... in 10 years, pull a fast And not saying that my friends will, I'm just saying like, absolutely in general, just like, you know i'm saying? But then like the party scene, be safe. But then like the party stuff, the party stuff is like, that was a public party.
00:49:04
Speaker
there was no expectation of privacy. There was cameras everywhere. So it was like, no You can't like, there's no, oh, I didn't know i was being filmed. Yeah, you did. like Let's be real, bro. You know what Julian, I'm joining you with the Modelo, man. Cheers.
00:49:21
Speaker
Cheers, guys. my shares guys yeah Second and a half beer here. Right on. The artist has to suffer, you know? Yeah. That's what no Yeah. you We suffer through our vices.
00:49:38
Speaker
nice How's that quesadilla treating you? Dude, it's fire. It's actually a grilled cheese. Oh, grilled cheese. Sorry. Yeah. I put some jam on it.
00:49:50
Speaker
Bacon and jam. Yeah. Okay, look. My friend's over. Man, that's some Texan shit right there. Yeah, it's Texan. My friend's over and he's like, put some jam on it. Bro, don't knock it until you try It's good.
00:50:03
Speaker
I promise. have I believe you. I don't like sweet and savory. Oh, really? No, no. it's it's like It's like Hawaiian pizza. Yeah, there was some fat silence when I said that. I said, Jim, y'all were like...
00:50:15
Speaker
ah Yeah, we were like, what the fuck? You know, Hawaiian pizzas, those those are good. don't deny. True. the I just want salty. though i think the older you get, the more saltier get. Hawaiian pizza like Is that like a, that Americans, or i guess Hawaii is America, but that seems like a, they did not make that in Hawaii. There's no way that Hawaiian pizza came from Hawaii. I think it's just because of the pineapples, you know? Yeah. but like ah There's pineapples. It's Hawaiian. Yeah. Like, that's crazy.
Somber Tone and Themes of 'Real Life'
00:50:50
Speaker
That's hilarious. Well, we got about a little over an hour. We're at the 51 minute mark. Yeah.
00:50:58
Speaker
But, you know, Julian, it seems like things are going really good for you, man. I mean, it seems like you're on ah on a really good track. You were talking about momentum earlier, and and it seems like you really got that going for you.
00:51:11
Speaker
Did that just come about strictly, well, did that come about from the networking or the social media? Yeah, ah appreciate it. um It's, I mean, i yeah, it's a lot of just like, there's something in me that's like,
00:51:28
Speaker
kind of a part of me that's like, there's not an alternative to like where I'm going. Like there's not like, you know, maybe I'll, I work a retail job right now, but that's to support what I actually want to do, you know?
00:51:39
Speaker
um But ah yeah, networking, social media, like those things are all tools that like, as any filmmakers, like it might not be cool because 20 years ago people didn't do that, but in 20 years from now, people are going to do it because 20 years earlier people did it.
00:51:53
Speaker
Right. So I think that it's really important that you utilize the internet and that you utilize, like, I wouldn't be here talking with you guys if I didn't do that on Reddit. you know what saying? And like, and so I think it's like just really important. And I'm just so grateful. Like,
00:52:06
Speaker
just the people I've been able to talk to and just like the connections and just like, just from something that I made literally in my room, man, like times are changing. Like, like the film minist industry is like, there's things like people are making some cool stuff for no money and you can put it online and people resonate, you know?
00:52:24
Speaker
Like, I don't think anyone cares in this day and age where they watched something. That's true. Like no one has watched real life and was like, Oh, I watched it on Vimeo or I watched it on YouTube. Like, they just watch the thing. Like it's, it's not like, and I think like there's this like weird, like stigma against like,
00:52:43
Speaker
you know, oh, it's just an online video. But I think like it's where there's a new age. But um yeah, um I try every day, man. And like, um you know, I'm not gonna lie. i have my days of just like nothing gets done. And have my days of doubt. Like I've been going through it. Like it happens to me, like happens to me like this week. Like I still feel it, but it's the...
00:53:05
Speaker
It's those little moments where you get up early in the morning and you go to the gym and you listen to a podcast like this and you're like all right, I can do it. Like I got this, yes you know, you know what saying? And it's like real, like that's real. Like you got to listen to that energy because those other floating, ah other energy is going to float and it's not going to be like, that's, that's bullshit. You can't listen to that.
00:53:25
Speaker
Like, that's like, that'll keep you down. But I try really hard just to like make sure at least 1% every day, if whether it's writing a little thing here, messaging someone here, trying to keep the fire alive. you know but Oh, yeah.
00:53:39
Speaker
yeah Trust, we understand. so um One thing with watching your film, you know it just seemed like such a... sad film right your your uh wolfgang comments on that scoring only sad parts even though so i'll be honest like some of the scenes in there didn't really seem sad so that there was a little bit of ah a disconnect for me yeah because it was like damn man i wish i had that live shit yeah yeah party time bro yeah well that's the thing is a lot of those scenes that are kind of fun it's like
00:54:12
Speaker
I wouldn't even say the party stuff or like the stuff we're on the slip and slide or like whatever. Like I wouldn't even say that's like, it looks fun, but that's why the score is so mellow dramatic because it's like, I'm filming stuff.
00:54:23
Speaker
But also, I'm not filming the right stuff. That's why right after the bills come, the car gets this and that. and it's like, I think the whole idea was that you can distract yourself as much as you want, but you really got to start got to start becoming an adult. But yeah, that's a funny line. And I think because right before that, it's like there's so much like serious tension that it kind of lets it go a little bit. you know Oh, yeah. that No, that's smart to do that release.
00:54:49
Speaker
yeah But you know even even the end of the movie kind of felt... I don't know. It just felt a little sad, a little dour there. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Even though you have that beautiful finishing shot of you on the kayak, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. i'm Just going off into the and to the forest.
00:55:07
Speaker
yeah but Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's definitely not like a happy... and Because right before that, it's like there's the scene where I'm like, I set up the shot with me and my mom and I'm like, okay, mom, you're goingnna say this for the movie.
00:55:22
Speaker
Right. Like, and also I'll be honest, that's how I got away with some of the lobs not sounding good. I put a little voiceover before that scene of me going, all right, mom, we're going to film so that I could get away with the, the cinematic shot, not sounding super good. But um yeah, that the ending is definitely kind of like,
00:55:41
Speaker
I think that if it was wrapped with a bow, it would it would be of maybe a little corny. But I think it's a lot of people have commented on the ending of being like, it's not like there's an ending of like, ah figured it out. It's more like, i don't know and that's okay.
00:55:55
Speaker
Well, i i think you always always have to be sincere in your films, right? Or in your art. like If you lose the sincerity, then you've lost everything. Yeah, you've lost them.
00:56:07
Speaker
Yeah, and if you're not having that... you know, beautiful game winning touchdown moment in your story, then, then don't show it. Right. But then within the film, there's that subtext of, yeah, you, you, you show this sadness and the struggle you're going through with your film.
00:56:29
Speaker
But then at the same time, as we're watching as an audience member, it's like, Well, you still have this film here, you know, you still have this film and exists. And so that juxtaposes um the sentiments displayed.
00:56:44
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because it's kind of like the idea of like, I think the universal early 20s belief is that, especially in Generation Z, is that, oh, the story of my life isn't exciting enough.
00:56:57
Speaker
or the story of my life isn't as as what I had wanted it to be. And I think that has a lot to do with the internet era and the digital era that we see our life on a feed. And we're not actually... a lot of people do stuff for Instagram nowadays.
00:57:13
Speaker
Yeah. Like they do stuff for... And so I think like like you were saying, it was the, well, you have this whole film to show even though you don't like it. And that's kind of the whole idea is that it's okay if... these three months your life weren't the best movie that you set out to make, like, or two years your life or whatever. Like, it's, you you you're you've you've grown, even if it was that much, you know?
00:57:36
Speaker
so So then how do you feel but feel about your film overall? I mean, you you struggled with it so much. It's now out. You have this momentum. um You're talking about it now. we saw it.
Personal Reflection on Film Creation
00:57:50
Speaker
So, so where does it fit in with personally right now? um I look back on some stuff and I'm definitely like very proud of like certain stuff. um And it makes me more excited about it when I talk about it like this, but I'll be honest, like um it really kind of like did a number on me and it really kind of like,
00:58:15
Speaker
I was very judgmental of it. I still am. um That's not, I'm not kidding when I say that, like in the movie, like I really just kind of, I think sometimes we have to let go of things, even things that we like or things that we've spent a lot of time on because it's good for us.
00:58:33
Speaker
And I think that's where I'm at right now. It's like, I gotta, to I love talking about it. i love sharing it. And that's about as much as I can do right now. I can't really watch it. um Me personally, I love that people are, you know, finding joy in it whatnot. But I think for me, like the answer is just working on the next thing. But I've i've come to peace with it in the sense of like,
00:58:53
Speaker
I learned so much. And it's also weird when you work on something for such a long time and you're already kind of a year past it and people are seeing it for the first time. It's like, no, no, no, that's not who I am now. Even though it looks like it might be who I am now.
00:59:06
Speaker
I'm over here, but you don't get to, you have to make the next thing first. Then people are like, oh this is who you are. And it's like, no, I'm actually this, you know? But um yeah, it's, ah I'm cool with it. I'm cool with it. I'm so grateful that people did it too.
00:59:21
Speaker
So then when was the last time you saw the film in its entirety? Um, we did the screening at the theater and the end of May. So it was around the end of May. was last time I saw in it in its entirety. Since then I've like kind of tweaked or like watched it on YouTube. You know, like when you post something and you like go back to see it on the thing and you're like, all right, yeah, looks good.
00:59:42
Speaker
Um, so I've done that, but I haven't watched it in its entirety since then. Um, probably Probably good that I haven't. ah One thing I'm curious about, and I would be remiss to not bring it up, is the David Lowery of it all.
00:59:55
Speaker
you you name You name drop. David Lowery is your mentor. So what's kind of the story and history of that? You want to tell us about that? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So David has been a pen pal of mine since was like 14.
01:00:09
Speaker
And he is like, we have connections with him. We had connections with him. Like my my family, his producer and co-writer was actually in a band with my mom in the early 2000s called the Polyphonic Spree.
01:00:22
Speaker
And, um so later that member was his producer and writer. And I found, you know, I got in contact with David at an early age.
01:00:33
Speaker
And since then, you know, um, he's just been great with advice with me and helping me out and guiding me along for some stuff, stuff when I'm stuck, you know I've had coffee with him several times and chatted it up and seen his films and,
01:00:47
Speaker
you know, hung out with him there and stuff at his films. And, um, but he's just been a great, like, he's awesome, man. Like he's super, super kind. And he's really great. And he funded the screening that we did not too long ago. he funded it. Like he gave me, it was my graduation day and he funded the entire thing.
01:01:04
Speaker
wow so awesome It was really kind. And he's, he's also from Dallas, which is why there's that. But I also love his movies, like a ghost story. like like like like his he you He's a great filmmaker.
01:01:17
Speaker
but yeah Absolutely. and We're pretty big film nerds and we're you know we're fans. Yeah. um Which film of his do you like the most? or which one do you Because he has the Green Knight, he has ghost story. Well, I do really like Green Knight, but that movie with Robert Redford that he did, The Old Man. Yeah, Old Man in the Gun.
01:01:35
Speaker
Old Man and the Gun. I surprisingly really loved that movie. I was like, ah should I really watch this? But I watched it and it a kick-ass lot of fun. yeah that's like Yeah, that's a freaking solid movie, dude. haven't seen it in a long time, so I can't like get my full judgment on it. But I love i i remember loving it.
01:01:51
Speaker
I mean, i'm such a sucker for Robert Redford, so... Yeah, right. No kidding. Yeah. um Your mom was in the polyphonic spree? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Shit. She's still in the but she's still in that band.
01:02:06
Speaker
Wow. You love Ghost Story, right, buddy? Yeah, I i did. i told Tom we got a, he has a projector in the back of his house and I told him we got to do, Oh, I think a ghost story is a special movie.
01:02:17
Speaker
Well, I told him we got, we got to do mushrooms and, and watch. man. dude, 24, like seven or eight years ago, had a promo campaign for ghost story and they were making bed sheet ghost costumes.
01:02:30
Speaker
And I, and I got one and I got the costume and I have it, but I made a I made like a promo video for the movie. And like I wasn't getting the costume and stuff. that's a I'm really connected with that movie. It's very touching. Yeah, well, that I mean, just the bedsheet. It's so simple, but it looks so beautiful in the film. you know It's just this it like, wow.
01:02:52
Speaker
How did you make that look like that? But also, like that movie would not have worked if it weren't for the pacing, the direction, and the cinematography and the score. It wouldn't have as well, I don't think.
01:03:05
Speaker
but Well, you know, that's something I would say about your film. Yeah. And credits to the the pacing, the cinematography and the editing. ah Those things just really stood out to me. Yeah, I think it's definitely like, real life is definitely like a visual film, ah a sonic visual movie.
01:03:21
Speaker
I think it's you know I think the word that kept running through my mind while watching it was meditative. It's very meditative. And it does just give you that time to kind of absorb everything.
01:03:32
Speaker
Because there's just like these huge like montage dumps. And then you're just like, wow, I just saw so much. But then you have these quiet moments that follow them up that just make you realize like, man, life really is this like quiet moment.
01:03:47
Speaker
place where every now and then it's just this wild party and it's just crazy and but that's like those are the brief moments right yeah but damn but those they're they're loud and they echo and they uh right they ripple throughout and it's dude definitely you nailed it yeah meditative is a good word like and think it's and the score is just like so good like i'm not gonna lie i didn't make the score but like my friend killed it like he did a great he did a great job Yeah, thought he he did.
01:04:17
Speaker
But you're really one-man band out there kind of thing going on. I mean, not literally one-man band. You got your buddy, but... ah Let's talk about that a little bit and then we can yeah we we can get you out of here. worries. And we'll have to have you on cut for a little on for a long a bit longer one. Dude, I'm down. um To talk about that, ah we were i was joking the credits where I was like, God damn, this motherfucker is in every role. Like, holy shit. You're like, shit, it's still going. Holy shit. So what...
01:04:46
Speaker
how was that experience of essentially doing everything? I mean, you didn't do the score, but did the mix, you did i mean the writing, the editing, the directing, the cinematography, all of that. Yeah. but that I'm not going lie. Like it was like, am definitely like, there was a version of me before I made it and a version of me now.
01:05:05
Speaker
um Like I learned so like it so much, like, and not only did I learn so much, but I'm like grateful that like people are watching it what I'm saying? Like that's, that's the ultimate.
01:05:15
Speaker
Yeah. But i think to be honest, like it was one of those things where i was like, I'm going to probably look back on it fondly in the sense of I didn't have to answer it to anybody, also I had no one to answer to.
01:05:28
Speaker
So I had myself and I had hold myself accountable. And that was really tough because it was like, well, you know, I don't really have a schedule. and don't really have a, time to do it. I don't really have people telling me, should I do it? Like, what am i And so I had to make a schedule for myself. I learned accountability. I learned willpower.
01:05:48
Speaker
it was also just like really nice to like, i would like listen to the, the reference music alone in my car at night and drive. And it was like a very personal. And I think that because making this, that feeling is so etched into my brain that I can't help, but do the next thing with obviously people like help, but like,
01:06:08
Speaker
majority wise, I still want to direct shoot at it. Like I just, I like that. It's not that, yeah you know, I just enjoy doing that. Um, and it was definitely difficult, but it was also like,
01:06:21
Speaker
like so making anything solo is so like cathartic and like therapeutic and like, but also it was also kind of like tore me apart a little bit.
01:06:33
Speaker
So I think I learned if one thing I learned is to be more gracious on myself and to be a little bit more like, um, and to like ask for help when I need it, not feel like I, everything needs to be, you know, cause that's where things can get kind of,
01:06:50
Speaker
weird and you can see it in the movie I start to kind of lose it a little bit oh definitely yeah that's why when we were talking about the sadness of the film where it's like we've all been down that road where it's like fuck we just we I quit quit I'm done I'm fucking done but yeah you know ah that there's uh The difference between what it takes to make it and what it takes to fail is that when you hit that brick wall, you do just climb over it eventually. Or you just shove your, smash your head against it until that brick wall falls down. Or you through it.
01:07:24
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. Like that you, you have to. And so, but also I'll be completely honest. Like, yes, you know, i will need some more help, some help next time. But I think, and I'm just seeing it from a kind of an outside of perspective. I think that like,
01:07:39
Speaker
because it is about like every filmmaker like has their brand or their thing, you know? And I think that like, if the next thing I also kind of predominantly do a lot of the roles myself, that can also be looked at as like,
01:07:52
Speaker
I don't want to use the word marketing, but that's kind of my brand is like, um' I like to control a lot of different aspects of of the process. Me as ah as an artist, I just ah just like to do that. But I would like to work with the script and actors and people. But I really enjoy like being able to shoot it how I want, come back home, edit it on my own terms, write it on my own terms. Like I, that's just how I work. And I'm not opposed to doing, you know, doing help or having other people help out. But right now I think I'm just like,
01:08:22
Speaker
I would like to try that again in some way. don't know. Well, I think you have to, because that's so much of the learning experience. Yeah. Gentlemen, just let you know, we're at an hour 10. So how are you doing, Julian?
01:08:34
Speaker
I'm good. I mean, I can go for another 10 minutes if y'all want. 10 minutes? That's it? I know, man I'm sorry. it's all right. Let's wrap it. Let's ah like final question and wrap it up.
01:08:46
Speaker
Well, um I got two questions then. Yeah, let's do it. But you were talking about you want to do the writing, directing, and editing. So... When Tom and I were going through our film, you know we really learned that the script is one phase of the film.
01:09:01
Speaker
Directing it, shooting it, that's a second phase. And then editing is the final phase where it can just be completely recontextualized and the story just completely redone.
Control and Collaboration in Filmmaking
01:09:13
Speaker
Is that why you like to have your hands in those three areas so that you can... maintain that control of the story and then also i mean is is that ah is that really a good thing because you know could there be the possibility of you getting in the way of yourself absolutely and i think that's the whole point of real life is i'm just in the way of myself the whole time and then i use that as the story which is like a little too meta i can't do that again but um but but uh it was like definitely like I would love to like, for sure have people help. but Like, I'm not, I'm not going to run and gun solo again, but you know, ah some of my favorite filmmakers are people that like, you know, and I've also learned that like, I think when I do do the next thing and I, want feedback, like I want to write it and then have people read it and then come back. Like, I'm not just going to, you know, show them out of the way, but the process is so difficult.
01:10:08
Speaker
and ah what's the word, like kind of personal to me that I'm a really big fan of just like shooting and editing and writing and just i it's just how I work.
01:10:21
Speaker
work like it's just how i you know it's just i can't i can't really think of it any other way and not that i won't do that but um i i'm gonna try my best to make sure i don't get my way again uh make sure that people are there to be like hey hey bro like you gotta go outside you know like yeah but um yeah i mean it's it's it's hard to find that Sometimes because I know for us, when we were talking about making our own film, it was the suggestion that always came up of, you know, it's it's hard to find people to help you.
Meta Aspects in Film and Storytelling
01:10:58
Speaker
It's hard, dude. I mean, i I'm trying find it out. Especially you have no money. No kidding. It's tough. m um But like I was saying, it's by now working. Yeah, much work.
01:11:09
Speaker
It's so much work. And it's hard work. Yeah. You know, it's funny when you said meta. I don't know if you've seen this film or heard of it. Tom, correct me if I get the title wrong. But watching your film, it kind of reminded me of that with the meta aspects. But it's a film called Close Up.
01:11:25
Speaker
Oh, yes. Have you ever seen that? I've never seen it It's on my Criterion watch list. I'm very familiar with that. Well, yeah, that's how we saw it. And honestly, I think you should check it out because it's just this.
01:11:36
Speaker
It's such a weird movie because it's just so meta. It just gets in your head. It's like, well, is it or isn't it? it ah it's It's just it's kind of a slog to get through. That's how we felt. um I kind of hated it.
01:11:48
Speaker
But then by the end of it, I was like, Jesus Christ, this is either the worst movie I've ever seen or it's the greatest movie I've ever seen. i don't know. It's way too smart or way too good of a con.
01:11:59
Speaker
But it's interesting to see those meta films and watching your film. I was like, eh. You know, he's doing it this way. I wonder if that's kind of a meta commentary on on the approach of what he's doing, like the aimlessness.
01:12:13
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. I think was 100%. Like, I think the reason that I've been telling people this is like, people are like, well, there's not really, I'm like, well, the story of the movie is that there's no story.
01:12:24
Speaker
Yeah. And that it's just aimlessness. Like you're right. Like it just cuts to me climbing a train and then it like cuts to like something random. Like it's the universal twenties feeling. It's I'm trying to figure out what my story is, but it's not that, but it's not that. And that was cool. Now that was, that sucked, you know? And that's kind of the point of the, that was like my goal is to like make it feel and intentionally with the editing, make it feel like you're kind of drifting in and out of just like,
01:12:54
Speaker
feelings and phases and and and make it feel like the audience can't really grapple on to anything tangible because i can't. Yeah, you know, I was ah telling Tom, because we've had a few other filmmakers who are micro budget, shoestring budget,
01:13:14
Speaker
And we've watched their films and we bring them on and we talk to them. And it's always just awesome to see what people can come up with, especially nowadays, right? Because it's so accessible. Yeah. But I was telling Tom, I was like, you know, this might be the best film that we've seen. Or for me, the best film that I've seen so far of the people we've we've interviewed.
01:13:35
Speaker
Oh, thank you, man. Yeah, I'll say you just kind of have this... and I don't know if it's true, but it it feels like you have this just natural instinct of how to put a film together and make it work.
01:13:49
Speaker
And then this meta element of where everything was going. Cause you know, we meander through what we're seeing. it is, it does require some effort from the audience.
01:14:03
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. But it it feels like it's for a purpose. Absolutely. You know, to serve a greater purpose. So, so you know I really respected it. Thanks, man. I mom was watching it because I had no idea. Tom's like, hey, check this person out. We're going to interview him. I was like, okay, sure.
01:14:19
Speaker
This is cool. I always like to watch people's films. And I was like, damn, yeah, man. This is like just motherfucker knows what he's doing. oh Thanks, man. I really appreciate that. And I'm really glad that you brought up the the idea that you were aware of the fact that it kind of felt a little disjointed because that was the whole thing.
01:14:38
Speaker
I was really trying my best to make sure that was, that came across was that it was like, I think that if there was a more structured story, it would have not have been as maybe impactful. I don't know. I think it would have maybe felt a little too pieced together. I think you could have,
01:14:55
Speaker
done it a little bit. Because i found yeah I think the struggle wasn't very clear. like I mean, I'll be honest, when I was watching, i was like, well, why why am I watching this day in the life of, I mean, I found it interesting.
Intentional Narrative and Financial Struggles
01:15:08
Speaker
You put it together in a very interesting way.
01:15:10
Speaker
But it didn't really feel like it came alive until you laid it out very clearly. ah One of the aspects that you were struggling with was finances and the debt of everything. And then, you know, i think it was a really good idea to show on paper the amounts of what everything is costing you. Because then it made it very clear, like, okay, yeah, he's dealing with finances. I get that.
01:15:35
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, Or at least one one of the major issues. Lord, don't we get it Right. And then it was like, okay, now now I'm kind of finding where I'm at here.
01:15:48
Speaker
And I think that's kind of why it reminded me so much of Slacker. i actually never finished the film. I think I got an hour in and then I fell asleep. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But, you know, like, why are we going through this with you?
01:16:02
Speaker
and And I think... probably could have established that a little sooner. Yeah. Or are maybe it would have been interesting to see the emotions it would pull out of an audience if that was established sooner. Because then then we would understand where we're going.
01:16:19
Speaker
But again, like just this meta aspect. One of the good things about the film is everything felt intentional. Right. and And when you see films like at our level, like if you were to ever see our film, you'd be like, ugh.
01:16:35
Speaker
And because a lot of it wasn't necessarily intentional. Yeah. But with your film, it it really felt that way. So I was very pleasantly surprised. I did- There was a lot to be admired.
01:16:47
Speaker
Awesome, man.
Networking and Future Collaborations
01:16:48
Speaker
That's the goal. i appreciate that for real. Thank you. Yeah. Well, Hey, thank you for coming on. Yeah. Thanks for being on the show and hanging out with us. Like you said, networking is, it's huge in this world. And so it was, it's always great to meet a new friend yeah and we'll have to do this again. So Julian, any last words and then we'll let you out of here. Where where can we people
Julian's Online Presence and Filmmaking Advice
01:17:11
Speaker
find you? Where can people find real life?
01:17:13
Speaker
Yeah. all Yeah. Um, I mean like the hub of everything is just, juliansouljordan.com has like all my links and stuff, but it's the same for my Instagram and YouTube. It's just at juliansouljordan. So it's all, it's all the same.
01:17:28
Speaker
Um, but for what you were saying, any last words, man, I mean, just anyone listening, like we're a new, we're in a new time. And like, I think it's really, the time is now to just pick up your camera. And like, I know that's such a cliche thing to say, but like, I mean, I'm on these cool podcasts and doing these things because I did, I just did it.
01:17:48
Speaker
You know, and I think like stories are all around us. Absolutely. You gotta, you just gotta, you gotta, you gotta get up. You gotta do it. You know? Julian, it'll be awesome to have you back on and maybe we can just pick your brain about random things like films to watch. AI is a big topic right now and I think one worth talking about.
01:18:11
Speaker
um So yeah, we'd love to have you back on and and just shoot the shit more. Let's do it, man. So have a good one. Thanks, yeah everybody. Thanks, guys. All right, cut.