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Exploring the Therapeutic and Transformative Aspects of "The Artist's Way"
249 Plays4 months ago
Episode 34
In this episode of the Bell Witch Podcast, Swailes the Friendly Green Witch and her friend Bex delve into their transformative experiences with "The Artist's Way," a 12-week creative workshop by Julia Cameron. Swailes shares how the program revitalized her creative pursuits, leading to the launch of her podcast. Bex explains the structure and tasks of the program, emphasizing its therapeutic benefits. They address the book's dated and privileged perspective, advocating for modernization and inclusivity. Both reflect on overcoming imposter syndrome and the importance of a supportive community, highlighting how "The Artist's Way" helped them rediscover their creative passions and personal growth.
Stay tuned for an announcement at the end from Pagansofthenorth.co.uk
Podcast Pals is Haunted Moonlight Haunted Moonlight on Apple Podcasts
See Uncanny pictures on instagram.com/the_bell_witch_podcast
Special thanks to Haunted UK Podcast for always supporting me Haunted UK Podcast
Join the Patreon for bonus content- Patreon.com/thebellwitchpodcast
Made with Love and Magic
KEY WORDS-
The Cult, virtual assistant, Hannah, The Artist's Way, Julia Cameron, creative workshop, morning pages, artist dates, therapeutic, creative pursuits, personal growth, transformation, self-care, relationships, household responsibilities, assertive, exercise, privilege, inclusivity, modernization, trigger warnings, 1970s, female-centric, imposter syndrome, self-imposed limitations, supportive community, imposter syndrome, motherhood, identity crisis, rediscovery, electric drum kit, journaling, Friendly Coven, personal growth, witchcraft, Catholicism.
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Transcript
Introduction to Haunted Moonlight Podcast
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello, I'm Michelle, the host of Haunted Moonlight. If you enjoy spooky things like hauntings, aliens, cryptids, witches, rituals, movies, books, listener tales, and so much more, then come take a listen to Haunted Moonlight. New episodes drop every Sunday and are available on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, Audible, and iHeartRadio. Can't wait to keep it spooky with you.
Swales' Recent Adventures and Theater Experiences
00:00:59
Speaker
Welcome witches and beautiful souls and new listeners to the Bell Witch Podcast with me, Swales, the Friendly Green Witch, witching in the 21st century. Thank you for choosing me to fill your ears at right at this moment. Blimey, it's been proper mad since I last spoke to you. So much has happened to me. I've just been on a bit of a whirlwind adventure of podcast related stuff. Being to Peterborough for a podcasting summit where I learnt tons about
00:01:36
Speaker
podcasting and of course met some other fantastic podcasters. Some that had been going for ages and ages and some that were all new to it and I was sharing all my little tips and tricks. So if you're here because I met you at the summit in Peterborough, hi and welcome. I went up to North Humberland with my sister-in-law, stayed at hers, visited many a castle ruin and lady of the hills which is a giant reclining goddess in the hills which would be so amazing for magic I tell you. It was a proper fluke. I was actually up in um Lily Door with the kids suddenly found out that the poison garden is in the same place that Louise Bloomer talked about quite a while back
00:02:18
Speaker
complete fluke, you know, the universe going like, oh, look what's here. You should totally go see that. And they're a bit like, I've got to go in, I've got to go in. I went to see Uncanny and 222 go story production at Bradford two weekends in a row which was just fantastic. 222 was brilliant and it's got a right twisty turny storyline. I loved it but the jump scares did get a little bit much for me if I'm honest. Even when I knew they were coming they still caught me out and I ended up jumping out my seat and kicking the seat in front of me just because they were just so severe.
00:02:57
Speaker
So apart from that, you know, it was brilliant. However, Uncanny is a little bit above that for me personally as an aspiring podcaster. I was really interested to see how it went and how it was done. And it was really good. I went with my good friend and podcast photographer Beverly Thornton, which was a fluke as well. She booked a ticket. I booked a ticket. A few weeks later, we said, oh, good to see Uncanny. And cut in I was like, so am
The Haunted Veruca and Its Impact
00:03:23
Speaker
I. I was browsing the merch store. and the guy behind Counter just suggested that I scan this QR code and it took you to the Uncanny website where you could ask a question or propose a theory to ghosts, huntins and all that and then also to share your own ghost story and of course who shared a ghost story? it Obviously this witch couldn't help myself
00:03:53
Speaker
So imagine my absolute delight when Evelyn said Emma Swale's in the stalls and we're like, ah, that's me, that's me. And the mic came over and I told the audience my story, you know, the haunted Veruca. Hashtag haunted Veruca. Because it is my most powerful ghost story that I just cannot explain ever. And it's it was clear as day. Anyway, it went really well and I somehow found the correct words and spoke clear and loudly. Side effect of podcasting.
00:04:28
Speaker
Danny Robbins was lovely and he was just so sincere and genuinely interested in my story and asking me questions and stuff. Nob moved to be like, oh, and check out my podcast. So I didn't mention it. mentioned it after on the Uncanny Facebook page. And then somebody messaged me saying it's really weird because I've heard that story before somewhere else. Was it on another podcast? And yes, day listeners, it just so happens that at the same time within a week apart, I got my story featured on Haunted UK podcast. I sent that in ages ago, probably the beginning of the year. Such an awesome podcast.
00:05:10
Speaker
It was just fantastic timing for my haunted Veruca story to be shared on there as well. They were so lovely to me, bless them. And they gave me a shout out, suggesting people come and find this podcast. And off the back of that, I got a huge following and I got discovered in new countries such as Japan and Australia and New Zealand places I hadn't broken into. And so I started ranking up the charts and I got to number nine in the British spirituality charts which is just amazing and I was just proper proper chuffed with it all so thank you so much for that support it means so much to me and I'm just buzzing and I just feel like good things are happening and I'm still doing the whole manifesting having to go to the podcast awards please vote for me and also needing reviews on the old Apple podcasts I only have 21 it's a bit dire but yeah it'd be good if I could get some on Apple
00:06:08
Speaker
Anywho, this episode is a brilliant one and I say that every time but I just love this gig.
Exploring 'The Artist's Way' and Creative Growth
00:06:15
Speaker
This one is about The Artist's Way which is a 12-week step-by-step creative workshop book. It's been around for years. Me and my good friend Bex, Aunty Bex talk about it because she runs the groups on Cult Mother, the Cult Mother Tarot. and so it just seemed obvious I should get her in and we could just geek out and gush at the love we have for the artist way and it's also quite a big deal for me because this podcast is definitely a response as well as other things from doing the artist way. I started with poetry
00:06:51
Speaker
wrote a bit of poetry, she did a bit of stand-up poetry, started doing a podcast with a friend, ended up doing it on my own. Now I'm running a coven, which was something I dreamed about and just didn't have the balls to do. And I honestly do believe the artist's way, combined with reiki healing, has enabled me to open that door to success and self-worth and self-love and manifesting the life. And now I'm going after all sorts like awards, and trying to get scroobious. Paper on the show, taking a chance and thinking you what the hell, I'm no worse off for trying and that is such a new mindset for me. I shall stop babbling and get on with the moot loot with Auntie Bex about the artist's way. Enjoy witches.
00:07:42
Speaker
Hello, Bex, and welcome to the Bellwetch podcast. This is your first time podcasting ever. Yep. Amazing. It's going to be so much fun. I've got to say, Auntie Bex, really, and and I feel we should probably tell the listeners why that's a thing, because from from now on you are always Auntie Bex. I know, I know. Yeah, I don't mind. i Yeah, I get it. Have you told people about the cult and Hannah and stuff before? I mention it in my stories quite often because it's a big part of my life and hopefully she'll be on soon after she's got a moment in a busy schedule to come on.
00:08:18
Speaker
Basically, Cult Mother Tarot, Hannah, all over Instagram. She's brilliant. I started following on notes Instagram. Then I joined her Patreon, which is the Cult, and I was there for all about five, six months, and I'm quite techy. I was kind of like, have you thought about this? Have you thought about that? I know how to do that. I could do that for you. And I kept doing these little things where I was just being helpful because I knew how to do it and she didn't. um And then she was like, can I just pay you? Can you just come and work for me and I'll just pay you? so It's morphed into because she's cult mother. I am now Auntie Bex It happened in a we do cult catch-ups once a month and it happened in one of the cult catch-ups that and I wish I knew I wish you could remember who said it But somebody said it in the zoom room of like oh, it's Auntie Bex and I was like, oh god, that's gonna stick and it has so now it is cult Auntie Bex and and I suppose
00:09:16
Speaker
you would call me her virtual assistant, technically. I am a VA and it's sort of emails, discord, bits of Patreon, little bit of Canva, little bit of just generally like keeping an eye on socials and things and flagging things up and going, have you seen that? She's a one-man band called Mother, predominantly is just Hannah. And that's a lot when you do, when you've got to do readings and you've got an online community and all of the other admin that that involves. it's a lot. So I just kind of take a little bit off of her shoulders and give her something to bounce things off when she's like, I don't know what I'm doing, which doesn't happen very often to be fair, but I'm there if she needs me. I just love, I love how you just get yourself a job. Just like, do you fancy this? She was like, do you just want a job? Like, yeah, I'll have a job, yeah. Not the first time. My first, my first office job happened exactly the same way. I was sat playing computer games in a pub
00:10:13
Speaker
and somebody when we do things with computer games and you seem to play computer games, would you like a job? And I worked there for 11 years. That's amazing, so good. I could talk myself into lots of things. And I remember when you started sharing cult mum stuff, was it lockdown? Probably, yeah. I remember, yeah, just seeing it on your Instagram and going like, what's this? What's this? And you being like, aight, it's the cult and they were like, tell me more. She's a little doggo and she's being a prick because of course she is the minute that you press record. Oh, dog house. She is a bit, yeah. She's only little, she's only 18. Well, no, she's two now. That breed doesn't tend to mature until they're about five and she's a lurcher. She's still a bit silly and doesn't listen very well.
00:11:05
Speaker
Yeah, you were sharing cult stuff on Instagram and i was I was really interested into what it was because I'd not known anything like it really because it's an online community, isn't it?
The Supportive Community of Cult Mother Tarot
00:11:16
Speaker
Yeah. But we met through a different online community, which is the Punky family, which I've got quite a few guests. I saw the last who did the stuff all about folklore. I hear me, yeah. She's great, really looking forward to her book. I'm going to get one! Good solid guest, I loved her. So basically I was sharing loads of things on Instagram because it was lockdown, everybody was bored, nobody had anything to do. The cult really came into its own during lockdown because we had a lot of online stuff and we had a lot of zooms and discords and video chats and we did quizzes
00:11:51
Speaker
When you came into the cult, I messaged you and when because you'd already seen it. And then I messaged you because you were talking about tarot readers online. I slid into your DMs and was like, you seen this? This is my boss. Amazing. And then you suddenly appeared in the Patreon. I was like, sigh me up, take my money, take my money. And I used to get the posh one that was like the top tier. So I got a reading from Hannah every month and it was just like, ah, it was brilliant. It was so good. But then I remember the one a year when me gerbils needed to go to the vets nonstop and I had to make a decision and go down to a lower tier and I was absolutely good and I'm still good.
00:12:31
Speaker
that was That was my tier too. It was actually Hannah who turned around to me because you don't have the ability to gift tiers within Patreon, like gift memberships within Patreon, which is daft, which means even though I work for Hannah, I still have to be in her Patreon, otherwise I won't be able to access things. even though I work for her. So I used to have that top tier as well with Hannah. We're just like, put it down. Well, you can have a lady when you ask me. Bless her. She's brilliant. Yeah, it is lovely. Cool. I do recommend you check it out. Have a look at her Instagram and is it the Cult Mother Instagram? It's ct Cult Mother Tower.
00:13:06
Speaker
italian tallo it is such a gorgeous community and it brings lots of opportunities such as segway segway the atis way which is what we're going to talk about today which is like proper magic in its own right You are the biggest success story we have ever had. I have everybody who's joined in and granted it's quite a so it's a smaller number that have all managed to get to the end because it's 12 weeks it's a big slog but there's still loads of people who have done it and got lots out of it and got quite far up and then something's happened life's happened but
00:13:41
Speaker
out of everybody the difference between who you were before you did it and then who you were by the end and then what you went on to do which was launching this podcast launching your patreon completely changing the direction you were going in i am a very proud cultavity like so proud of you seriously because you were just looking for a direction and you were a bit lost and you bound the artist way stuff and you just jumped into it with both feet and were like I've got tasks to do and pages to do and I've had ideas and I've got a notebook I've got another notebook and you ah let just just threw yourself at it with such enthusiasm and you're getting the most out of it
00:14:26
Speaker
And it's still giving me stuff. I mean, it really is, I think, a way of life is the artist way. I still do artist dates. I'm a journalist, so I always journal. But that I think, like you say, it gives you direction and it gives you tasks to do. I mean, like jogging, I consider an artist date. I love going jogging. I love being on my own. I'm very much a solo jogger. I find out quite quickly. I didn't like jogging together. And then it's teaching yourself how to look at stuff, you know, like new and stop and I'll smell flowers and look at bees and mire the leaves and the forests all around my house, which I didn't know were there until I started talking. All these things, I always track it back to the beginning of the I swear and looking at stuff in wonder and
00:15:14
Speaker
I think you found a way, because it had a structure and you were doing it as a program, it gave you a way to put you first without feeling selfish about it. Because you're like, I can't do that. I've got kids and husband and stuff and things and animals and I've got things to do. And it gave you kind of permission to go, yeah, but you can do this as well. And it's important. I think it brings the value up, don't it, of your own time and doing stuff that's not all about the fucking capitalism and making money and having a set of tasks to do, which will make you richer, like like physically. And it puts value on things that will make you richer mentally. And that is way, way but worth more than then physical rich, enriching. Do you want to start, tell us all about what it is basically in a nutshell and how it works and all that jazz now?
00:16:06
Speaker
Basically, it was written in the 70s, written by Julia Cameron, and basically the idea was being is that she was stuck at the time and she'd previously done AA, so she was an ex-drinker. And she'd gone through the a a system and in her brain, she's like, wouldn't it be great if you had this type of 12 step program that was for blocked creatives and blocked artists who were who had something they wanted to do and something they were inspired to, whether it was to write or paint or whatever it may be. But for whatever reason, we're getting it out the other side and just not being able to kind of clear their brain and make time properly to be able to get it done.
00:16:48
Speaker
So she blocked it out and themed it in the same way as the concept of the 12-step program of AA, but for creatives and did a book. Before then, she was already having friends come to her, like she'd made it for herself. And then friends were coming to her and going, help me, how do I do it? And she'd do it. And then they were like, you need to write this down. And she got a book. And it's, I mean, it's sold millions and millions and millions. The fact that people are still talking about it now, I think it's in it's like 13th, 14th reprint at this point in time. and Every time it's reprinted, she slightly changes the introduction and puts a little bit of extra in or moves the layout of it. So it makes more sense, makes it more bite size. And it's still relevant. Like it's still super duper relevant. She gives you basic tools. So she gives you this idea of like, these are your morning pages. She wants you to write, um I think it's two pages front and back every morning with the idea of it's free writing. Like it's the first thing you do when you get up.
00:17:43
Speaker
You empty your brain of whatever's currently festering around in there. You don't have to look at it. You don't have to read it again. You can throw it away if you want. But you're getting it out of your brain and you're getting it on paper before you do anything else with your day. And then the other concept is the idea of artist states, where you take yourself out at least once a week to do something for you. And it doesn't have to be something artistic. the The artistic element of it is not necessary. It's more the self-care element of like, it might be just a walk. It might be going for a coffee. I mean, it might be going to a museum or going to see something you're interested in, but it equally could just be going for a jog, going for a swim. Like it doesn't have to be that deep. It just needs to be intentional time for yourself rather than the stolen moments and things. It's it's concrete.
00:18:35
Speaker
in your diary, you're not going to move it around and change it if you can. Obviously sick children and things, but you try and prioritise that it's something that you're not, that it's a non-negotiable. You're trying to make sure you give yourself that time. And then there's 12 weeks and it's 12 weeks as a chapter in the book. And each week has tasks. Each week has a chapter that that lays things out. You have the homework, that includes doing your daily pages and it includes doing your artist date once a week and then you work through the tasks and some of them are really easy and some of them are really really hard because they make you ask really tricky sticky questions about things in your past. There's a bit of a therapy to it in the way that it looks at some of your things from your childhood
00:19:24
Speaker
and the way it like the relationship with money and and how that affects how you think now.
Applying 'The Artist's Way' and Its Criticisms
00:19:31
Speaker
So it's looking at past behaviours and past things and past things that you thought to be true and going in but how does that affect my current and then diving into that and then fixing the bits that you don't like. and kind of changing and reprogramming your brain for being like, well, I don't need to think like that. I don't need to be worried about it all the time. I'm always going to be able to find something. And then you apply it to, in her book, you apply it to
00:19:59
Speaker
an art usually so it's often writers a lot of writers do it a hell of a lot of writers do it a lot of general sort of painters art that's kind of you know potters things with your hands that kind of thing but you don't really need to be you can do the artist way i think without having anything particularly creative that you like seeking as a end goal as long as you're thinking in a creative way of how you want to change it. Like you go to the artist's way because you want to change things, you go to it because you're looking for something, you're looking for a reset, a refresh.
00:20:34
Speaker
you're looking for something to feel a bit lost, feel a bit aimless, wanting a direction. You go to the artist's way and it gives you that. Like the book's very aimed towards creatives only. It doesn't have to be. You could easily do it as just, I want to be a better mum. I want to be able to handle my handle my house better, handle my life better. You know, be more assertive at work. Don't let people walk all over me. It doesn't have to be necessarily creative if you apply it in the right way but the book is for creatives. That was a long answer. It's good and I was very much there. I was so pissed off with lack of spirit, lack of movement, lack of like things that lit me up and everything about my life I think was just really sad and then I did this artist way. The movement one was a big one for you because I remember
00:21:27
Speaker
that you said then then you were like like I just sit on my arse I want to do I want to do something but exercise is boring and I don't want to do this and you you kind of you knew what you wanted to do but you didn't know how or where wasn't it didn't you get the walk pad first you got the little treadmill Yeah, I had a gym, but my gym membership was on its way out. I remember. And I do treadmills and I'm just really self-conscious. And so I think maybe the first thing was buy a treadmill, an expensive treadmill. Just the act of doing that, you know, was massive because they're expensive. I mean, mine's like six and a half hundred pounds, you know, it's
00:22:06
Speaker
I'm paying it off over two years. I would never have bought that if I hadn't started the artist's way because it was all like, no, no, there's a reason. You're going to be fit for your kids and yourself. You're going to sleep better. I mean, I would have swimmer as well at the time. I used to do a lot of swimming and swimming baths. those two things combined helped me out but then I remember wanting to be outside more and I think the jockey came later though didn't it? Sometimes my brain gets a bit scrambled as to what order stuff went in. It's funny because like you said there's a lot to do isn't there? But you don't don't have to do every single task because it's the 12 to 15 tasks every chapter
00:22:45
Speaker
something like that. And then there's optionals as well. So there's things that' like, if you've got time, do this page thing here. If not, do these bullet points here. but yeah so yeah there is a I think because it's so big, there's a massive danger of scaring people off because they go, oh, I ain't got time. I'll fail. and And it's like, well, that's what you need to change. I think if you wanted to do it even basically, it's the morning pages, isn't it? yeah the morning people could just do morning pages and it would change stuff it's just amazing we were rebels anyway like you weren't in the second
00:23:21
Speaker
second intake you kind of poked him in the discord but you weren't in it fully. The second intake was hilarious because we were just the rebels. It was like do your morning pages but if it doesn't happen don't worry about it. Oh and she says you've got to do it with pen and paper because that's really important but if you're doing voice notes on your phone while you're walking the dog That's also fine. There was lots of, like we took the bits we needed and yeeted the bits that we did. but we didn't And we were quite rebellious, but then this is a positive this is a positive chat, but always always the biggest criticism always goes back to that the book is written from such a place of privilege. yeah It is such a place of money and time and child free. I think she's got like one daughter, I think, but at the time,
00:24:09
Speaker
they were old they were older and moved away and stuff. So it was from very much that privilege of being able to be like, why don't you take a month off and go to Morocco and write your screenplay? And it's like, yeah, why don't I? i I'll just tell my husband and just go, have fun, look after the kids, have a great time, I'm off to Morocco. So there is ah there is a point of privilege about it that sometimes can people can find quite jarring. But that was where when we were going through it, we were kind of like, look, obviously this does not apply to us. We have circumstances and lives and families and things that mean we can't just, like I've seen TikTok accounts where they've literally followed artist's way to the letter and i'm gone away. Like they've gone on like backpacking, like gone to find myself doing the artist's way. And it's like, yeah, you're 19. You've taken a gap here. You have no partner and no children. Bye.
00:25:04
Speaker
did So there's definitely a criticism of that because she came from it from ah a privileged point of writing. But the value that you get in it can still apply to anybody at any walk of life. You just sometimes have to take a pinch of salt when she mentions certain things in the book and you go, OK, did you say so? It is quite dated as well, because it was written in the 70s and it does need updating, it really does. Some stuff she says, it's like, eee. Trigger warning, there's definitely some stuff to do with homosexuality, some stuff to do with very judgmental things about parents.
00:25:44
Speaker
There's definitely a kind of like, so you take drugs, stop that. it's jokes a bad call yeah just bird There's definitely heavy doses of sort of, like I said, there's heavy dose of privilege and there's heavy doses of sort of trigger warnings and things that are clumsy. I wouldn't say she's wrong, but I'd say that it's very clumsy and they come without any warning. In the modern age of trigger warnings and kind of giving people heads up like, oh, this is a bit sticky. Yeah, it doesn't. It just suddenly appears in the middle of the paragraph. And if you don't know it's coming, you're like, ooh.
00:26:20
Speaker
Ooh, wasn't expecting that. I mean, she's she' in the late 70s now, late 70s, early 80s now. She keeps bringing out different versions. I don't think it'll ever get like a real proper modernisation until after she's gone. I think as long as she's around, she will not allow anyone to play with it. I agree. to that point because it's her baby and she's very proud of her baby but it could definitely do with some modern editing and a little allowance of people's lifestyles and family setups and that kind of thing. It could definitely do with that.
00:26:55
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. But can you imagine though, I often think, because it was written in the 70s, how massively unusual and unprecedented it would have been because, you know, they're telling women to stop being stereotypical or upset or cook your dinner, cook your husband's tea, go abroad, find yourself. That is just amazing. I bet at the time it caused a right shit stop. I mean it kind of makes sense because if you think about the whole 1970s in the summer of love and woodstock and everything else that was like the first thing of like completely getting rid of the 1950s housewife stepford wife model and that was that kind of thing of like get a guitar smoke pot leave home that was the rule that was the
00:27:43
Speaker
That was like, you do that, best 70s ever, let's all go to Woodstock. That was a thing. So it kind of was definitely like the stars aligned for right place, right time, right message. It's very female led, like it's female written. And if you look at the way it spoke to, for the most part, it's very feminine voiced. So a lot of stuff when they talk when she's talking about suggestions and things, it's more applicable to a girl than a boy which we didn't notice straight away i think it was the second time around that ah one of the guys in the group was kind of like
00:28:19
Speaker
She's really not talking to me right now. I was oh, I'm sorry, babe. I'm sorry, darling. I think you've got to kind of... This is gonna sound so bad. I really hope this doesn't go viral or anything. But you know, like, you racist this Nana. She means well, but she's gonna say racist things. It's a bit of that. There's a little bit of that in some of the clumsiness of the language where it's like, oh, bless her. She doesn' she doesn't mean it. She means well. But you can't really say that anymore. Yeah it does need updating and I think it will get updated like you say when she snuffs it continue for years to come and I think as well it refers to God doesn't it? Oh we changed all that. Yeah I was going to say it well it says in the book don't it feel free to cheat when she's referring to God. She does God creator and in a child and we very early on decided that that was bollocks and we didn't like that so we changed it to dog
00:29:15
Speaker
Freddie, Freddie Mercury, and your inner kitten. So it was your inner child was your inner kitten, the creator was Freddie Mercury, and God was dog. And then everybody felt much happier because with us doing it within the cult, so many the people within the cult did not have any kind of affinity with a Christian ah christian name layout. So, you know, when you start talking about God and Mary and prayers and all the rest of it, and you've got a pagan tattooed, tallow-slinging witch, she's just going, we're doing what now? About what?
00:29:49
Speaker
So yeah, we had to we we changed that very early on. It was like, use whatever makes you feel the most comfortable. And if it means making it silly, some things like that could make the text inaccessible for people. Like when we did the first intake, I'm not kidding, we did a Zoom room and there was like 28 people. They were massive on it, to begin with. And we did the first chapter of reading through and explaining it. And you could see people's faces going, oh. And it was because it was so God and Jesus heavy in its in it in the way it talked, that it put all the people off. And so it was halved by the next one.
00:30:26
Speaker
But then in the next session, we turned round and went, make it work for you, change the terms, literally go through the book with a pencil and cross out every time it says God and put whatever works for you that makes you feel more comfortable and that applies to the way that your spirituality is like there's a lot of that. I did that and I changed it to you the universe instead of God. The universe, because you know what I'm like with the universe when I was talking to it. And that just removed that barrier, you know, like, oh, I don't want to talk to, because when a lot of people think God, they do naturally think God Christianity, dude in a chair in the sky. But it was just another word for you know the universe and the cosmic energy and
00:31:05
Speaker
It does make sense because again, when you as soon as you know that it's based upon, or at least it was roughly set out in the same way as a a AA, AA is the same. AA is all about giving yourself up to God and giving is and talks a lot about God and Jesus and prayer. So it makes sense that that was in there for the artist's way to be fair because the framework's the same. Was Jesus in there? I can't remember Jesus being out, I swear. Is he? Or have I just blanked that out? It's a good question. God was definitely in there. Yeah, God's definitely... Dog, Dog God is definitely in there. Dog God is definitely in there. But now I don't think Jesus is actually mentioned. They might be. Aren't you done it twice? You should totally know. I've not slept since then, darling. Yeah, I have done it twice. We did the first one October 2022 to January 2023.
00:31:55
Speaker
And that was the one that I was on the last, went all the way through it. I just might, I'm really proud that I was all the way through. was It was seven completed, it did though. Yeah, ah no, six. ah so then And then six did the same. And then again, the second time round, it was six again. It's seven of both if you include me, but I'm leading the group. so Six is the magic number, apparently. And then second intake was the October of that year. So October 23 to February 24. The second intake went a bit long because we had a lot of illness. So we had a lot of missed weeks where we ended up not getting together.
00:32:33
Speaker
And then we have times when people had things on and then Christmas happened. So it was a bit longer than the 12 weeks because of availability. And some people who just fell off the wagon and then everyone else would go, yeah, me too. And it's like, well, let's take the extra week. Do a redo. and we'll see you again next week. and So life happens. It doesn't have to be 12 consecutive weeks it can be. She would definitely argue that it does because she's very like, yeah, she doesn't she doesn't like adaptations. She gets very annoyed when people are like, I do my morning pages on my phone. And she's like, well, it won't work if you do your morning pages on your phone. Like she doesn't like it. But again, life happens. And I don't see the point of having a book or a course that can be so transformative.
00:33:19
Speaker
and then putting barriers in place because you can only do it if you can do it in exactly the same way as they say so. It's like, make it work for you, make it make it do what for you in the way you can. especially once you're adding families and kids and all those things, because then you don't get a choice on your time in the same way. When they say jump, you're like, okay, off I go. like you don't get a chart You don't get a chance to go, not now. Mummy's doing morning pages, sort your own nappy. You don't get to do that. So... Yeah, 21st century living, it's a lot more busier than 20th century living. Absolutely.
00:33:56
Speaker
Where did it the second time? How was it? Was it quite different or I don't know, did it change anything in your mindset or I don't know? I think the first time round I knew I wanted something different but I didn't know what it was. And I actually that ah but I've got a little quote in the front of my notebook. I've got one notebook that I use for both intakes of the first time I did it at the second time and it says, if the plan doesn't work, change the plan but never the goal. and i And I really lived by that because I had a very set idea and it was connected with an artistic endeavor. And I had an idea of like, that could work. Maybe I'll look into that. And before I'd even got to the end of the artist way, I was like, no, that's not going to work at all. Like that's pie in the sky feelings. i am I kind of drank too much of the artist way Kool-Aid.
00:34:44
Speaker
because the way that I was thinking about it was like, husband can look after the children and do it all. I'll go do this. I'm gonna build this in the garden. I'm gonna sort this out. And I i got this big dreamer mentality of like, let's do all these things. And then went back to reality and went, no, I can't do any of that. but That's not gonna work. Some of it can, but not the whole kebang. So the second time round, I far more did the mindset of how I spent my time and being more more intentional with where I spend my time and what I do and how I waste my time as well. And a little less sort of goal focused, but a little bit more sort of overall lifestyle changes that I wanted to make. And it actually worked better off for me the second time that.
00:35:31
Speaker
ah cool I lived in fantasy land in the first intake one. I immediately went into dream mode and and lost all touch of reality. The second time round I was a bit more grounded in actually what what are intentional, genuine, small changes that I can make that can make a big difference. as opposed to these grand big ideas. It was the same thing as like going, when I win the lottery, I'm going to do this. It was like that the first time around for me. But she tells you in the book to dream. She tells you in the book like to to use your imagination and write your fantasies. And I did really well. Planet. it
00:36:15
Speaker
looking up prices of things on the internet and planning it in my book and doing all this thing and going and at no point going where's the budget coming from for this i was just planning it yeah i lived in fantasy land the first time around i enjoyed it though it was fun it's kind of like manifesting though isn't it i mean it does It was yeah. There is overlap in there between I think the artist's way and like the secret. They do kind of work together and I think if I'm honest the artist's way is probably my the secret. It worked very much like that and now I do dream and because you dream
00:36:50
Speaker
things come to you because you're allowing yourself to dream. So I realised I didn't do that very often until the artists way. I was almost like scared to dream because I might not get it and then it's a waste of time. Yeah, I feel like the artists way rooms that we sat in were very much like therapy. So i'm I'm being very careful in how I talk. I don't want to like give anybody stuff away. I'm trying to anonymise as I remember things. But I think a lot of people had that feeling of just emotional weight. like they could like they were in treacle they were felt a bit lost and a bit sad and a bit unmotivated and not quite sure where they wanted to be other than they didn't like where they were at and by looking through the exercises that delved into a lot of past stuff which again could be very problematic and should not be done without a proper therapist really when you look at it because as soon as you start talking about childhood you only need somebody who's had
00:37:47
Speaker
like something go on with SA or something like that. And it could bring up all sorts of some nasty stuff that they weren't in prepared for. Again, it's where the book can be clumsy. But the way that that happened, and the way that people were able to kind of look back and go, Oh, so you know, that happened when I was little. And then that made me think this way when I was a teenager, and this is how I now think as an adult, and it helped, they broke it down to be able to reassess the way that they were Now, and for a lot of people, they just generally felt a bit more positive and a little less hopeless with it all. And like, everything felt like opportunity instead of like, I can't do that. It's not my thing, everything everything's poo, nothing works. It's almost that kind of dismissiveness of yourself of like, yeah, it's me though, isn't it? It's not gonna work. And there was a lot of that within the group, in both groups. And I think that was probably the best part of it. From a creative endeavor point of view, you are the success story.
00:38:40
Speaker
like you went from I'm stuck and I'm a bit lost to I've got a podcast and a patreon and I run all the time and I'm really happy you absolutely kind of nailed it but I think those that kind of came out the other side of it not necessarily with the creative endeavor but just feeling happier just feeling more settled within their own skin and not feeling quite so lost and unsure. And and it's it's all imposter syndrome. It is. All imposter syndrome. That whole book should be like how to smash imposter syndrome. We're basically picking up the book and just smacking it. That is the book. but The whole book is just beating the crap out of imposter syndrome and going, why not you? What is stopping it from being you?
00:39:26
Speaker
You are telling yourself that you can't. Why not? You are holding yourself back more than anything else that you can currently write about of the blocks that are being put in place. and It's all about breaking blocks down. and And then it makes you write it down and you and it'll kind of make you write down everything going, here's all the reasons why I can't do it. And then it makes you go into those reasons and go, but are you in control of that? Is that really a reason? Or is that just a really good way of kind of going, I'll blame it on that one actually. If I just did this, changed that, moved that about, I could do it if I wanted to, but I'm not, because I don't think I can, because I'm not very good. And it's a lot of that. It's a lot of that. It's a lot of breaking down in pasta syndrome. And then that's how it begins. That's how
00:40:07
Speaker
things progress because you break through their barriers and you start to think, actually, I can do this. Am I right at this? You know, people are here for it and they want to see it. And it's really good when you do it in a room, isn't it? Like when we did it in Cult Mother on a Sunday night in a Zoom room. yeah I first thought that was about being held accountable for showing up for yourself and doing it but it's so much more than that is so much about holding each other and giving space to each other and not fixing people's problems but just hearing them all those things are just gold
00:40:41
Speaker
For some people it was just saying it out loud because a lot of people it was stuff that they'd never
Personal Growth and Self-Discovery
00:40:46
Speaker
spoken about. like they would they it was the stuff It was that inner nasty voice that tells you you can't but it was not something that they were saying into a room, two people. like it was It was like having a secret diary and then sitting with a group of people and talking about your secret diary, if you wanted to, but you didn't have to. But it stopped everybody feeling quite so isolated in it all and it stopped people thinking, oh, well, it's just me, especially with some of the people who shared, because you've got some people who shared things and you're like,
00:41:15
Speaker
you are the most confident person i have ever met in my life and you're so successful and you're so pretty and you're like oh you're a goddess and then they come out with an insecurity and you go well if you're insecure wow you you don't know what's going on behind the surface of somebody it's so easy to have that thing of looking at the grass is always green and looking at the other person and being like, Oh, they're amazing. I want to be like them and kind of compare being despair in it compare and despair. That's it. Being in that room with people who you have loads of respect for who are very successful and you think are amazing, and then sharing their own
00:41:52
Speaker
issues with imposter syndrome makes you feel less crap. It's like, right, okay, we're all beating ourselves up about things that we don't think we're capable of for whatever reason. And it helps. It does help. was It was very much of a little therapy room. We got very off topic sometimes as well. We had holes. sunday zoom nights where we started talking about politics and all sorts of things and didn't but like like just like had all these big conversations about all how our week had been and what was going on and then right at the end it'd be like okay have you any morning pages yet great good bye
00:42:27
Speaker
amazing that happened a lot in ah in the second intake because the second intake was more relaxed because it was in discord instead of zoom and is it and it would go on for a lot longer instead of making it like a set like one hour thing we'd all meet up at eight o'clock and we'd kind of go through the homework go through anything anybody and anything that had come up then we'd inevitably start talking about something random and having just a generalized group chat. And then right at the end, it it'd be like, oh yeah, do this, this, this, this, and this. And then I'd put the homework up in the Discord. I tried to make it as accessible as possible for everybody.
00:43:05
Speaker
And I think it'd be a ah completely different story doing it ah solo, doing the morning pages completely solo. I mean, it obviously still works for people, people who prefer just doing it and working through it. But I mean, I have attempted to do it. They're still beneficial to do it, but I think to do it from start to finish all 12 weeks on your own is a proper uphill climb. I tried. to Did you get through it? No. In fairness though, I had a really good excuse. My dog died. I got three weeks in and my dog died and I just lost all motivation to do anything. And then not that long afterwards, we got the puppy and then I was in puppy mode. So it was just, it wasn't the right time. There was too much life happening. We'd already talked about the fact we were going to do it within the cult anyway. So I was like, I'll just wait.
00:43:54
Speaker
Is there another one planned? If it happens this year, it'll be October. It depends on it depends on who wants to do it. you know it's It's a slog, but if enough people want to, yeah. So if you're listening and you fancy doing the nice way and you're looking for an amazing community, I can personally recommend the Cult Mother Tarot. It is such an amazing community and if you were like me a few years ago and you were stuck as to what you wanted to do with your life it just felt really unmotivated and unexcited and even though you were doing stuff you weren't really doing stuff. I think me and you were very similar actually because we were both coming from that point of view of
00:44:36
Speaker
We knew who we were before we had kids, but we didn't know who we were after we had kids. So the person who we were before we had kids, we knew who they were, but we but they didn't exist anymore. And the new version hadn't really like, it was only about kids, so there was nothing about me or you. It was only like, who are I as mum? And it's like, yeah, but does I'm not just a mum. I've got other stuff going on as well. And I think that was really important. Yeah, I used to kind of trick ba myself into thinking, oh, I'm good at doing stuff for me. you know've I've not lost myself. I'm just different now and I need less stuff. and
00:45:10
Speaker
to do less things. It's kind of like I was kidding myself, like I was a witch, I was a witch. I discovered myself being a witch kind of like a year after Florence were born. But I was just kind of dabbling, I wasn't really being properly in it. And I was kind of kidding myself, oh yes I am, yes I am. Not knowing how amazing and a huge and beautiful it could actually be. I mean you said you bought your little treadmill. At the end of the first intake I bought myself an electric drum kit. because I used to be a live musician before I had kids and I hadn't had a drum kit in my house for 10 years. I don't really miss it. The day I bought it and pulled the plug on it, I cried. I didn't realise how important it was for me that I'd not had that in my life for so long when it used to be my entire life. Is there any huge things you can relate back to the artist way that's become apparent for you? Are you still working on them? It more came to point to the things that I thought maybe I could do that I now think I can't, but in a positive way. like Not in a like in a positive kind of like, no matter what I do, I'm not going to be able to make that fit in with my life. It stops me putting resources into things that are a bit of a pipe dream. It makes me look at things a bit more practically and kind of going, yes, but no.
00:46:30
Speaker
So you need to look out, you need to look elsewhere. Because a lot of stuff that I had ideas towards was very much, because I used to make chain mail. I made joy, you made joy. made jewellery and I made chain mail and I was really into it and I got quite good at it and then I've got an arthritic thumb and I've got hypermobility in it and it makes problems with pliers and it pissed on my bonfire quite frankly I had a huge plan I had it all set out I was doing quite well and then suddenly I couldn't do it anymore and I was like oh that sucks didn't find properly after that a similar style of
00:47:05
Speaker
making that I both enjoyed and also had the talent for. I found various bits I could do but nothing that I was particularly decent at. It was like good for a hobby, not so good for a sort of creative endeavour. And I've kind of got an idea but it's taking some time. I'm getting there. But you're doing it, aren't you? You're not just saying I can't do it, which is half the battle. Absolutely. It just makes me want to do the artist way again. I knew this discussion would make me light up about it because I really do hold it in such high regard. It has absolutely changed my life and I really love it. And I've got my old book and I scribble in it. It's got like little doodles everywhere and sigils all over it. And it's like one of my treasured possessions.
00:47:51
Speaker
if you put the time in and you're honest in the way that you put it because you could quite easily bullshit it and be quite kind of you could be quite superficial with it if you wanted to be but if you put the time in and you're brutally honest and you kind of have uncomfortable conversations with yourself about how you deal with things and how you process things and the bits that you know that you waste your time on then you'll get a lot out of it. You've got to be honest to yourself, aren't you? Really honest to yourself with it. It's not an easy thing to do at all but it is so worth it. After I'd completed it, I just did poetry and from the poetry everything else grew. Even now the poetry still has a tiny little sideline and that was like the first creative sprout and then everything else just kind of followed.
00:48:35
Speaker
You are super creative, though, anyway, because I mean, your journaling is it's you don't just write in a journal, you paint and collage and stick and burn and like you burn. i you You really journal. You throw yourself at a page. You don't just write, you know, dead ivy. Like, your pages are big and multi-coloured and... It's like magic to me. ah I say this so often. I get tired, like, everything is magic. And doing journal, like, maternal journal, especially with Sally Goh, like, she's taught me a lot of what I do now.
00:49:08
Speaker
If I'm annoyed I'll journal, you know, and it'll fix me just briefly until the next amazing thing happens to me. So it's very much a tool is journaling. It's not even about what it looks like anymore. It is just doing it. It's like physical actions friendly coven is the latest project to sprout. So this is over a year, isn't it? This must be like here and half. Well, it was October 22 to January 23. So if you start from October 22, you're going to be nearly two years in. Yeah, so I'm still receiving things from the artist that I did like nearly two years ago and that just blows my brain. You just rewired it. You rewired your brain. That's right Bex. Be on a podcast where you can't say your R's and your W's very well and say a word like rewire but you are doing it.
00:49:58
Speaker
But you are are doing, you you played with all the wailing and kind of made it so that you think about things differently and you don't think of it in a negative sense of like, well, I can't do that. You're like, ah yeah, I can. Watch me. That's what's changed. That's it. It's amazing. yeah So I'm so happy that I found the call. One of us. One of us. Is there anything else you would like to say about the ice way or yourself? ah If you're gonna do it, do it authentically, be it extremely unflinchingly honest with yourself and throw yourself at it all in because then you'll get the most out of it. If you kind of try and do it sort of light or superficially or, you you know, you you only pick all of the easy things to do and you don't do any of the hard things because you don't want to go there, you'll finish it but you won't get the same amount out of it if you actually pick apart your brain.
Swales' Journey into Witchcraft
00:50:56
Speaker
why you do the things you do. Do it for yourself 100% completely do it only for yourself for nobody else. Yeah and come join the cult. And come join the cult. Before you go I'll ask you do you consider yourself a witch? Yeah, I do now. I get used to. I think I absolutely do, because I'm ah i'm a mishmash from all over the place. I'm another former Catholic. There's a lot of us that go witchy that used to be like Catholic. I think it's because we like ceremony. many I think the Colosseum's got so much kind of ritual and ceremony to it that witchcraft is a really natural fit to go from Catholic to witch, because there's so many so many yeah similarities in the way it's all set out.
00:51:38
Speaker
so ceremony and ritual and just talking I think to higher powers, you know, goddesses and the universe and everything.