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Brewing Magic: Unlocking the Secrets of Tea Leaf Reading with Madam Csaszar
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Welcome to The Bell Witch Podcast- Witching in the 21st Century.
In Episode 45 of The Bell Witch Podcast, host Swailes the Friendly Green Witch interviews spiritualist medium Joanne Csaszar, also known as Madam Csaszar and her Talking Teacups. Joanne specializes in tea leaf reading, tarot, and trans mediumship. She shares her journey into her unusual teacup and tea leaf reading process , inspired by a spontaneous moment, and how her background in social work influences her practice. Joanne discusses the symbolism of her extensive teacup collection and the profound impact her readings have on clients. The episode emphasizes the importance of trust, vulnerability, and continuous learning in spiritual practices, offering listeners deep insights into modern witchcraft and spirituality. Swailes gets a spontaneous reading from her own cup and is truly blown away!
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Transcript
Introduction to Missing in the PNW
00:00:01
Speaker
On Wiki Travel, the Pacific Northwest is best known for its beautiful coastline, green interior, rainy weather, and spectacular mountains. But because of all this, it's also the perfect place to go missing. My name's Carmita, and I grew up in the Pacific Northwest in Portland, Oregon. I host a podcast called Missing in the PNW. My podcast is different from others you may have heard because I focus specifically on two things.
00:00:30
Speaker
The first is that all of the missing person cases that I cover are strictly from the Pacific Northwest and Oregon and Washington. I know, the title of my podcast should have given that one away. The second thing is that my podcast focuses strictly on missing persons from marginalized communities, such as the Black, Hispanic, Native American, Indigenous people, and the LGBTQ plus communities. You know, the ones that get absolutely no media attention.
00:00:59
Speaker
Now I am not an investigative journalist or a reporter. I'm actually a widowed mom of three who loves true crime and has a passion for social justice. So join me in helping spread the word on these missing person cases and help be the voice for the ones that are now voiceless. You can find Missing in the PNW on all of the major streaming apps, as well as on socials at Missing in the PNW podcast.
00:01:25
Speaker
If you have a case you want me to cover, please email me at missingintheP&W at gmail dot.com or send me a message through Facebook Messenger. I hope to talk to you soon and remember, have fun, but be safe.
Introduction to Bell Witch Podcast Episode 45
00:02:23
Speaker
Hello, hello, hello. Greetings, witches and a beautiful souls. Welcome back to another amazing Mootoo from the Bell Witch podcast with me, Swales, a friendly green witch. A podcast all about witching in the 21st century.
00:02:42
Speaker
This is episode 45 and within this episode is an amazing interview with Madame César, a tea leaf reader with her little business called The Talking Tea Cups.
00:02:59
Speaker
Joanne is not your average tea leaf reader. She has an unusual way of reading for you if you should go visit her because she uses the whole aspect of the actual cup that you pick as a tool to give you messages before she even gets to the tea and I have had one of these readings may I say and Joanne absolutely blew my mind and I knew straight away I needed to get her on to talk about this fabulous
00:03:30
Speaker
talent that she's got and her story is incredible and there's some really unusual and quite interesting insights into her life and how tea leaf reading can change people's lives. It's a really lovely heartfelt discussion. It surprised me with a reading that I got from a tea cup that I presented to Joanne and she gave me this just amazing truly deep reading which unfortunately I just can't share because it really is very very personal.
00:04:04
Speaker
But it's still awesome and I think you will really, really in enjoy it. In other news, I have joined TikTok as a creator and not just a consumer. The Bell Witch podcast album word on TikTok. Did you see that I did the live interview with the occult family last week?
00:04:29
Speaker
Oh my word, witches, I was sweating buckets. I was so nervous because it was live. And then it took me blooming ages to figure out how to actually join them on their channel on my laptop.
00:04:44
Speaker
and I had to go to the app on the phone to make it work so it didn't sound as good and then because I don't have many followers you couldn't see my face you could only see the badge or the logo whatever it is of my tiktok account so that was a bit like oh boo Anyway it did go well and they were proper pros, they were really good answering questions and they answered some questions before I'd even got round to asking them because they were just that thorough in answering which is amazing and I soon got more relaxed and it turned out really well so that will be a very special New Year's episode in early 2025
00:05:25
Speaker
to start the year with a nice big witchy bang. I'm hoping I'm going to get enough followers to go live and then I can do a little live shows and then maybe put it as a podcast. it It'll be a different way of doing it and also make a bit more connection with my listeners. So if you love the Belle Witch podcast,
00:05:46
Speaker
please would you give me a follow on TikTok. The stuff on there at the moment is just me kind of pratting about and stuff but it's quite funny but I'm sure like anything the more you do it the better you get. I've also created a Reddit profile but oh my god witches that is well beyond me. I've no idea what I'm doing on there at all but yeah that's the Bell Witch podcast too. Goddess help me I am out of my depth.
00:06:17
Speaker
Also, just wanted to shout out my new Patreon members. I had a little flurry of them. I have Jolene Faron, Daniela Bernadri, I think it is, Fuzzy Cricket, Meghan Flagg, Susan Perry, Bridgette Carisi, Sarah ah Sabrina, Geneva Nolan,
00:06:43
Speaker
Oh we've got Richard Davis as well. Thank you so much for joining in as a free member. I hope you like it here. I know it's not the most busiest Patreon in the world. October's been a bit harder for me to actively put stuff on just because I've been doing one episode a week for spooky season. Therefore the what the TikTok stuff hasn't come as much as I'd like it. Now I'm back to bi-weekly I'll start to do the subscriber only mini episodes for my Patreon subscribers. So thank you so much for supporting this witch to help me grow and improve the podcast for my lovely listeners. I absolutely love this gig as you know and may continue to grow and thrive.
Madame César's Journey as a Spiritualist Medium
00:07:31
Speaker
Well, hello and welcome to the Bell Witch podcast. Do you want to introduce yourself and what your expertise is? My name is Joanne Cesar. I'm known professionally as Madame Cesar and Cesar is genuinely my surname. I am a spiritualist medium, so I practice within the spiritualist movement, so I'm an evidential medium. I love my tea leaf reading and that is really my specialism.
00:07:57
Speaker
I read tarot and sometimes I frighten myself with the tarot readings that I deliver. I've got a social work background so a lot of people coming to me as clients their readings are like therapy sessions.
00:08:10
Speaker
or we go back and we look at the root cause and then we look at where else they can go to get the the right sort of help to support them in their life. I'm also a trance medium and that's where my story with Spirit started ah when I was three and a half. I teach trance so I mentor other mediums one to one.
00:08:28
Speaker
And I am part of a trans duo called The Word. A lot of what I do, people would say is a bit off the wall. And I do have a habit of pushing myself to find weirder and wonderful more wonderful ways to actually convince people out there in the public. But, you know, it's all around us, are everywhere. And I just really want to be able to demonstrate to them, look, you also can do this.
00:08:56
Speaker
So when I do teaching, I don't really like to be the teacher. out I want to be known as the facilitator, the person who opens the door and says, look, go, have a look in there, have a rummage in that room, see what you can find that matches your individuality. I do like to be individual. I'm not eccentric, but it's my individual delivering my individual style using everything that I have to bring together a ah spiritual service that really helps them empower people and and helps them find the love and light in themselves and the love and light they want to attach to in their lives. I think that's probably the best way I can describe it but also to take away the fear of death
00:09:40
Speaker
and and that bring that message ah of life after the death of the physical body. I absolutely 100% my belief holds strong even through trauma as my belief has held strong. Look, see you started me talking. It's good. It's what I need on a podcast. Brilliant.
00:09:55
Speaker
And I just rapped along. So i'm I'm sort of jack of all trades and trying to make myself master of something, but it it doesn't work that way. Spirits steer you where that where they want. And I am very much a vessel, a channel and a servant of spirit. you know the Every now and then an interest comes in and I've started spotting like wayside plants. I go down with a rather um navigational canal a lot with my little dog and I spot plants and I go, oh, what's that? I get plant finder out um on my phone and I go, oh, I didn't know that. But then I realize it's the answer to a question that I've just been asking of spirit. ah Yeah. When we look at its interpretation. So I think I'm sort of starting to lean a little bit towards hedge witchery. Oh, that's amazing. And I never thought so. ah I think you all know Louise Bloomer.
00:10:44
Speaker
I follow her and I'm very aware of what she's doing in terms of teaching and I haven't got time to join her classes. Amazing. That's how we met through Louise Bloomer. yeah ah Louise holds amazing stuff at her house, amazing classes and there were this one class, i think I can't remember what it was, but you were there as like an add-on and we could buy a tea leaf reading.
00:11:06
Speaker
from yourself. And I had a tea leaf reading and it were just phenomenal. Everything you predicted has happened and I'm absolutely blown away. And a couple of things you predicted happened and I'm really surprised that happened because it was just like a U-turn in my life. And then the reason I was in here going like, you need to get up podcast, you need to get up podcast. It's like, I will, I will.
00:11:27
Speaker
ah But yeah, it is, and you know, it surprises me some of the content that's in a tea leaf, in a cup for me to read the tea leaves in. And what really always, always astonishes me and humbles me is the number of clients who sit in front of me and they open themselves bare to me.
00:11:47
Speaker
and within an instant of walking into that room sitting down with me they have exposed all their vulnerabilities, all their fears, all their anxieties um and they trust me you know and I just like oh my goodness how humbling is that? Coming from a social work profession I used to go to houses where they hated me before I walked up the path and knocked on the door and now I use all those same skills and and people just ah open their hearts and I meet some beautiful people I meet some beautiful people who just need that little bit of empowerment
00:12:23
Speaker
to actually make a decision and I don't ah don't tell them what decision to make. It's giving them the confidence in themselves to make that decision. People come back after years and say, oh my God, John, I've got reading I had with you and I look at them and I go, I don't remember you. I don't remember you at all.
00:12:40
Speaker
But they remember that reading was the the the pivotal point to a change in their lives or a preparation for a change in their lives. And they've turned the lives around and and they're living the happiest life that they are, that you know that they can have at that time. And I am so, I'm so humbled to be part of that journey. And I want to know, I keep putting my hand up with my guides and go, excuse me, when's somebody going to do that with me? When's somebody going to give me the heads up that the doodoo's going to hit the fan?
00:13:10
Speaker
Oh, you just, you're too busy serving everybody else, bless you, serving the tea. Absolutely. To have the, to you know, to wait and listen, I'm more i like, how do you like that love? Milk two fingers, all right then. It's funny actually, because my partner's father passed away beginning this year. I ended up in the kitchen making teas and coffees when we got back to the house after the funeral service. And it is like, you know, this is just me all over.
00:13:39
Speaker
yeah Anything to do with a teacup and tea leaves and i'm I'm in there. So you've been spiritually connected for quite a long time by the sounds of it. Yeah. Like your whole life, would you say? ah Yes, I think, you know, when we look back, we can see all the pieces starting to link together and you go, oh, yeah, I understand. Oh, yeah, that's why that happened. That's why that happened. And I was really lucky to be, well, really lucky, I don't know.
00:14:07
Speaker
I was dropped into a dysfunctional family. The stork, I think, missed the house I was meant to go to. ah Into a really dysfunctional family. I had three characters around me who were super, super supportive, ah very gentle folk. And then the rest were, and there's a lot of inviting, backbiting, you know, cruelty and neglect. So we've got two extremes. But my maternal grandmother was actually a medium.
00:14:37
Speaker
okay Now, she was also a tea leaf reader. I didn't know she was a tea leaf reader till I was 17 at her funeral. And my sister and I were talking about how, you know, there's so many people at her funeral. She was friends with everybody. But when we were kids, she'd be sat in the kitchen talking to somebody and another lady would come, chap on the door, open it and go, I'll come back later. We thought that Nana was friends with everybody, but these ladies weren't friends with everybody.
00:15:06
Speaker
and Nama's friend said, well, you silly absolutely normal. I was 53 when I was doing a demo in my hometown of Thorn and a woman came up to me and said, who's your mother? And I told her and she went, so you're Mariah's granddaughter.
00:15:30
Speaker
yes are you the one that's always worn glasses yes and she went i used to go and watch your grandmother demonstrate mediumship at the churches and she suggests she says your nana were a lovely medium and yet our mother never never shared that information with us because it wasn't about our mother. yeah She was jealous of Nana, loving other people, caring for other people. So I've sort of walked into Nana's shadow for a lot of years. And I do still hold my Nana on the pedestal because she was a beautiful woman and the healing and the loving energy that came from her. And the number of times I saw her cry tears for other people, I lost count. So my first experience, sort of fulfilled experience of spirit was about three and a half.
00:16:18
Speaker
I have memories I used to stand in front of my nana she'd be in the armchair I'd be stood by her knees in front of the fire and I would get this really weird feeling and it felt like I'd got a rubber glove on my hand and somebody was tied it tight and somebody was pumping it up so the sensation in my fingers went weird and I feel woozy and as a kid and even now. One of my weak spots is around my sinuses but it doesn't follow a correct pattern like a seasonal pattern or anything. and then So that happened a few times and then I went into a full trance and the story as I understand it
00:16:59
Speaker
my grandfather, so Nana's husband, ah was on a submarine and that submarine went on its first test dive up in Scotland, in the waters around Scotland, and it never came back up. There was a design fault. The Admiralty couldn't have bad news out because it was wartime, so they actually said it was Sub-Mariner era.
00:17:23
Speaker
Now, my granddad, Chief Articifer, I still don't know what it is. I think it's like an action map or something. Him and this young lad were in this section where there was a ah vowel. The gentleman who came, the spirit who ah used my whole body, my voice, everything to communicate to my Nana,
00:17:47
Speaker
was the petty officer who was sent down in one of those big old-fashioned bell suits with the cables ah to go into that submarine through the 30 odd men who had drowned, find that valve and undo it.
00:18:02
Speaker
Now for years, my nana had felt guilty, ashamed that her husband had made an error that had killed all those men. And this chief petty officer came through to say, Mariah, it wasn't your fault. They sent me down and they told me if I didn't go down and do it, it would be treason.
00:18:20
Speaker
um my god I had no choice. I had no choice. I know I'm nearly crying talking about it. So I had that experience. Nana then starts taking me, a little bit older, starts taking me to Morend's spiritualist church. I do believe, because I've met another lady who her mum and my Nana were mates and she said, you used to be the medium for the night.
00:18:41
Speaker
Now, if that was now, the social services would be crawling all over us. But as a seven, eight-year-old, I was going into trance in a closed circle. Oh, my word. And my nana was encouraging it. That's amazing. Now, all I remember is being dragged home through the streets of Morend and my nana going, don't you dare tell your granddad where you've been. I don't remember anything else, because as far as I'm concerned, I went into that church and I fell to sleep because it was snugly warm.
00:19:10
Speaker
but apparently I was doing the mediumship. Years later, the early 1980s, just after Nana passed away, the Admiralty actually released some records that did say it was a design fault on the sub and not a submariner error.
00:19:25
Speaker
but it had taken all those years, it had taken 40 odd years for that information to come out. and So that was my my first experience of spirit. Every now and then they do use me for trance demonstrations. I prefer not to, I prefer them just to come really close and let me keep my eyes open.
00:19:43
Speaker
You know, I do I do want to know who's using me, what they're doing with me, what they're going to do with me, what they're going to say. I want to know chapter and verse, because when you come back from a trance demonstration, people say when you said and you go, I didn't say I wasn't even here. I was laid on a beach in Bali.
00:20:01
Speaker
and in a wonderful deep meditation and people don't don't realize that you are so removed from yourself but i do teach and i do mentor others uh there is a guy his life's got really busy this last few years and he was the most incredible trance and transfiguration medium I've ever seen but he wasn't prepared to go on on platform so I've had some wonderful students but in that time he learned a lot about himself as well so that was that was great and then I've got my trance buddy now so it it has come full circle it's took 58 I'm nearly 58 so it took 58 years to come full circle and me fully understand but I have never forced my relationship with spirit
00:20:47
Speaker
I was 22 when I joined my first development circle, although I'd been in and involved and around and used as ah as a channel and a vessel. I never actually had any formal teaching training until I was 22, because I believe it's very much about your relationship with with the team of guides that work with you.
00:21:05
Speaker
and they know, don't they know when you're ready and when your door's open and all that.
Tea Leaf Reading Practices and Insights
00:21:11
Speaker
When did the tea reading come about then? Is that relatively new or have you been doing it a while? I've been doing tea leaf reading, I'm in my 14th, I think it's 14 years now. I went out on the circuit doing mind, body, spirit events as a what I call a straight medium, no devices, no tools.
00:21:29
Speaker
and people would be walking past and their loved ones would go, I want to talk to her and I go, I can't, I'm not, I'm not one of those mediums that grabs them and hooks them in, you know. And I said, they've got to come to me, of course they've got to go to people with tarot, crystals, oracles, whatever. And I thought,
00:21:46
Speaker
Oh, this is so frustrating. You know, in one day, I have six or seven communicators lined up. And I couldn't do anything about it. I left a particular event really frustrated. um And I said, spirit, you are going to have to give me a gimmick to to draw them in. So I can say what you want me to say to them. And then that weekend, I was going away with my then partner,
00:22:11
Speaker
I think it was my birthday weekend or something. We'd gone down for breakfast on the Sunday morning. The waitress had put out this beautiful service, a lovely breakfast I remember, big teapot, always a, you know, a bonus. And he poured the tea and he went, oh, he said, it's loose leaf, there's no tea strainer. And I just went, haha, drink it, drink it down, I'll eat your tea leaves for you.
00:22:36
Speaker
So I did and I still say now I learned more in 10 minutes than I had in the previous 18 months and that was the beginning of the end of that relationship. So it wasn't long after that I started I went down to the charity shop got half a dozen teacups because I knew that like my Nana had served a ah community of ladies who were not particularly educated, they were hard working, but they weren't particularly educated, they weren't particularly worldly wise. So she used whatever tea was in the pot, whatever cup was on the table
00:23:12
Speaker
And I thought I'm working to a completely different generation, completely different attitudes and belief structures. So I thought I need to put in layers that they can't just say, oh well she knew that, she knew that. So I thought if I start by having a choice of designs of cups,
00:23:31
Speaker
and because my understanding of knowledge of symbolism I thought you know some distinctively different cups shapes patterns designs I thought then if the person chooses the cup maybe it starts to influence and it wasn't long before I noticed that a certain type of people would pick a certain type of cup so they get started going to themes and then it went from half a dozen cups to I think that I've had a couple of breakages lately but I still think I've got about 430 and then I've got with Godmother's two full 12 place settings under the bed. Amazing. said
00:24:09
Speaker
but but that's how it's how it started and now it's ended up just like it's just like an obsession. ah So everywhere you go you're always looking for teacups? I used to go to a beautiful tea room it's not there anymore and she had lots and lots and lots of lovely cups and occasionally I would end up with one I'd go oh I really like that one.
00:24:30
Speaker
it's shut now so it doesn't matter but where I had duplicates where I'd had to buy half a dozen cups and saucers just because I wanted one I would take one of my spares and swap it and then the woman came over we got to know her she came over and she said did you take a cup with you last time and I went yeah but I left you one you know it became a standing joke and she said Joanne just asked me next time she said I've got so many you can have you know and I've got friends who go in charity shops and you know I've got a friend who would never have seen been seen dead in a charity shop she was somewhere seasiding and all of a sudden she's stormed into this charity shop gone to the back where the brick-a-back is and picked up a cup and sauce of sauce and bought it and it's before she's outside you know she's outside and she's gone what have I just done so she gave it to me and I went oh my god that is fantastic it represents this that and the other then she went oh wow
00:25:22
Speaker
So it's just a bit it crazy. so But I love it. And it is is one of those things where it is those layers of randomness where people go, how on earth? So I can do a reading just using the teacups without without the tea leaves in. Yeah, if you can imagine like a pack of cards, you've got your majors, you've got your minors, you're talking about characters and archetypes, you're talking about situations.
00:25:47
Speaker
emotions and the cups work like that as well so I can do a stand-up demonstration it's fast it's a bit it's a bit off the wall as I said before and I'll do two or three tea leaf demonstrations and and the cups get passed around with permission so other people can see what they can see in it and then I start on just the tea cups and they're known as the talking tea cups so I'll say just randomise it get people to pick up they can choose with their eyes get other people to come up they have to follow a technique where they keep their eyes shut And when they open their eyes, the cup that they need to talk about jumps out at them. I can even tell when they have seen one with their eyes as they've either been setting up or they've walked up, they'll pick it because they like it. And I go, no, no, no, no, no.
00:26:34
Speaker
I want you to pick one the way I've told you." And they go, how do you know? I said, I know when you're cheating. Because the cups tell me. And it it it is its it is a bit crazy. ah I do it where I'm going to be doing one on the 26th of July. And what it is is, it's online. So I have a load of cups in front of me. I number them all. At the beginning of the session, everybody gets a quick look at the cups.
00:26:59
Speaker
and then I number them and what happens is people who are selected, so the the person who's chairing will pick who gets the readings, make it another layer of randomness, ah then the individuals has to pick a number or pick two numbers, so ah ah where we're at and what the out outcome or advice to go forwards. So if two cups are taken out from 50, the next person can only choose from 48. So if somebody decides they want a number,
00:27:27
Speaker
that number might not be there when it's there too. But they still get the correct cup. It's never been wrong. And this is why I love my talking teacups. They're a crazy world of teacups and tea leaf reading with Madam Cesar.
00:27:43
Speaker
I love it. It's great. It is. And I remember when I had a reading from you, I think we walked in a room and you'd set them all up on a table. oh I can't remember if you'd built them up or if they were just, I think they were built up, wasn't they? Because there were loads. Yeah. ah Yeah. Stack them up with the sources. Yeah. and it And it looked brilliant. It looked like proper Alice in Wonderland-ish. And I saw the one I wanted and I zoomed straight to it and you were just like, yeah, I'm not surprised you picked that. and I was like, what? I'll let you into a secret.
00:28:09
Speaker
With the tea leaf reading there is a layer of intellect so you've got your symbolism. There is a layer of knowledge so it's that seeing the images and knowing what they mean and again the symbolism. You've got the scrying so where images are not formed fully and you've got to let your mind and your eyes relax and you'll see something develop out of about that clump of tea leaves.
00:28:35
Speaker
you've got your sidekick so when you shoot when you walk in that room a good medium's already made that connection with you sidekickly you you are giving us permission to have a fertile and a rifle in your auric field so when somebody picks the cup and i go yeah not surprised it's because i've already had a feel of your energy. Then you hold the cup, you put a a more intense layer of ah psychic energy on that cup for me to read. And then I'm also reaching up to spirit and asking for your loved ones to join in as well. So it it's got all these layers to it. I never thought I was that clever. And I don't know how it happens in a nanosecond.
00:29:21
Speaker
other than I love what I'm doing and I love the opportunity to support, encourage and empower others. And I think it's that love connection that makes it work. And another thing that surprised me when I got the reading was you don't actually drink the tea, which was a bit like, oh, you only put a tiny bit of tea in the bottom, don't you?
00:29:43
Speaker
Yeah, ah a little bit of tea, a little bit of water. ah Lots of people come up when I'm at My God Who Spirit shows and and they say, oh, I don't like tea. I only drink coffee and I'm like, funny enough.
00:29:57
Speaker
you know, find me some coffee grinds. I'll i'll read you coffee grinds. It doesn't matter. I can read the the foam in the bottom of your takeaway cappuccino. If you drink black coffee, I can read, you know, you get that scum. I think it's probably got a nicer word than that. But the scum that sits around the top of your cup and it drains out. I can read that. In fact, I had a cup of coffee last night and I looked at the scum of my own and there was actually a king's guard with a busby hat there on his horse and the horse was galloping. I was thinking, what on earth is that?
00:30:34
Speaker
And I thought, oh, well, you're all right there, love. But I do i sometimes look in my own cup as well, and and I'm often surprised what I see there. If there's somebody around me, family, social connection, and I'm concerned about them or there's something happened, it doesn't sit right with me, I will offer to clear their their coffee cup away.
00:30:54
Speaker
because i can have a quick look and then it's like yeah i know and now i know how to talk to you now i know how to bring that emotion out and and get it aired so you can heal and it is a bit naughty of me but when it's your nearest and dearest you can't help yourself that's my excuse for being dosing It's born from concern. So have you got some teacups you're going to introduce us to? I have. I have picked out four and and these actually these four, they're not picked that often out of the collection but they go out with me regularly. I'll start with this one because this one's just a bit of fun. Well it's not a bit of fun because if you're on the receiving end of this it's trouble. It's a bit old-fashioned
00:31:38
Speaker
And it's not very exciting, but it's the name of this cup. The design name is actually Whispering Grass. You're a bit younger than me, but any of the listeners watchers who are of a certain age will remember it ain't half hot mum. And Lofty sang Whispering grass. Whispering grass. Why tell the trees? Because the trees don't need to know. It's about gossip. So this cup becomes one of gossip where whoever is my client is contending with a lot of gossips and falsehoods and misinformation around them. So that's that one. But if you see the cup is like a little pixie ear. Sorry, the handle.
00:32:25
Speaker
like a little pixie ear. What that tells me is that that gossip is like magic. Everybody listens to it, everybody's entranced by it. So my client is actually in a victim state when they pick this cup for me.
00:32:41
Speaker
Another lovely one, a 1920s Art Deco funnel shapes. So if you could describe a little bit what the design is for people just on audio. doing It is literally, if you imagine a funnel, it's sort of conical, an inverted cone shape. This one has a lovely picture of the plant broom And it has some leaves that look a little bit like cannabis leaves. It is a pattern, a design that has been copied from pottery to pottery. So some are better quality than others. This is one of the cheaper ones because obviously carrying the cups around would get smashed. It would be nice to have the ah the Royal Albert version.
00:33:25
Speaker
which I would end up paying about 20 quid for, or this cheaper version which is Royal Stafford and I pay about £5, £6 for it. So you know in terms of losing them, I'm not so heartbroken with the cheap ones. This one with broom on it, it's also got a fluted edge on the top so it's not easy to drink out of because of the shape of it.
00:33:47
Speaker
But what it talks about this cup is where my client would be using lots and lots of energy to keep people together, to keep relationships going and be quite anxious.
00:34:03
Speaker
of that so putting a lot of effort into keeping other people happy and on track but then we've got those those sort of cannabis leaves and they say that you know you're working really hard everybody else couldn't give a stuff they're too laid back to care So we come to the inside of the cup and there is a little bit more broom but it points down the cup and this time it's saying, come on, put as much care into yourself as you do to others.
Impactful Readings and Client Stories
00:34:30
Speaker
But this is really very much for that person who just desperately wants to say no and can't because either they don't know how to or they've never been allowed to by other people.
00:34:40
Speaker
I really like this cup. I like the flute at the top, I like the form of it. And years ago, I would have picked that because of the shape of it. Whereas now, I'm older, I know it's it's form of a function, like it looks good, but it'd be rubbish to drink tea out of. And now I would never pick it. So yeah yeah so think about that. if you If this client is using all their energy to funnel others on the pathway,
00:35:07
Speaker
you've learned you can't funnel others you have to discern where your energy goes and and it is that form over function you know that this cup is not you yeah makes sense amazing that easy once you get into it once you get your head into it it's easy this one's got a lovely lovely story it's a beautiful little it's proper teacup shaped one and it's got a beautiful little water lily in full bloom and above it diving into it is a kingfisher and then it has some plant tree overhanging and that looks like it does look like a bit like buddlier or another day it might look like willow it really it it changes with spirit instruction changes what i see this gorgeous little cup is a replacement for one that i got
00:35:59
Speaker
Now the replacement is wrapped in lots of bubble wrap and it is waiting for me to reorganise my office and have a lovely shelf to put it on. This cup is like the the world card in tarot. It's about completion, completion of a project, completion, everything coming together. And I was in Harrogate Church and there used to be a lovely lovely lady called Kath I was doing the demonstration one night to find who's getting who's going to get a reading. Everybody's got a raffle ticket and raffle. They're drawn. So it was Kath's turn. She came down to the front and this is the design that she picked, the Kingfisher and water lily.
00:36:40
Speaker
And I looked at her and I thought, oh no. And then spirit started to take over so we didn't really do much with the tea leaves. They were talking about all the people she'd helped and but the family under these circumstances and how grateful spirit were that she stepped in.
00:36:55
Speaker
and and she was able to see the difference with that family over the years but she was she never crowed about the contribution she'd made. A lady came up to me afterwards and she said, you know, we all see Kath as an old lady, we needed that reminder that she is a beautiful woman and a wonderful healer. Well that was the Saturday night. On the Friday I got a message from the booking secretary secretary is to say Joanne, Kath's passed away.
00:37:20
Speaker
No. So I'm known as the lady that delivered Kath so ritualy before she passed over. yeah i feel so I feel awful, but people needed to hear what that lady had done over her decades of involvement with spiritualism and commitment to spiritualism. I went out of my way to actually find go to the lady that sold me the original cup to say, have you got another one? Because this has happened as she went, oh, I'm sure the lady who sells me the teacups, she thinks I'm crazy. But sometimes if I relay a story or
00:37:53
Speaker
she's advertising something for sale I say oh that flower actually means and she's like wow you know and so yeah I've got another one of of these kingfisher water lily cups that is waiting for its pride of place and I will be forever humbled by spirit that they wanted to use me I feel sometimes they like putting me in a tight spot they like seeing me sweat
00:38:20
Speaker
because they know I will step up I'll always step up yeah and I'll look I'll reflect backwards that it's like you know the angel going where angels fear to tread that translates to Joanne Marie Cesar
00:38:34
Speaker
I've got one more cup to talk about and it's a bit of a tough one, this one, a bit of ah a tough love one. It's called a demitas because it's actually a small teacup. So if you like me and you like your tea, it's useless. yeah You know, yeah two gulps and it's gone. This is an intense, intense indigo blue. Yeah. And it's got a lot of gold patterning around the top. Now imagine paper dollies cut out of a strip of newspaper translated into gold round the top edge and it's got a thick edge of gold top and bottom right a little useless handle if you've got big hands you're not even going to hold it with your thumb and your first finger all right so what this cup is about is about my client who chooses it
00:39:24
Speaker
struggling with other individuals who are very controlling, very much dictating, playing with their minds, gaslighting. My client would be ah adapting their behavior and actually clipping back their behavior so they become like a dumbed down version of themselves to protect themselves in all this control environment. We've got that little tiny handle that if we call it an year nobody is listening to my clients so they may well have reached out and asked for help and it's fallen on deaf ears or they're told oh we can't help you with that we've got a waiting list whatever. I've had this cup chosen by a lady who was being gaslit by the health service
00:40:10
Speaker
I've had this cup chosen by a gentleman whose mother was basically going out of her way to destroy his marriage. It sometimes comes in with those who are caring for and trying to support elder family members with dimensions where their behaviour becomes manipulative and demanding as well. But it is very much about family familial control.
00:40:36
Speaker
or internet partners. With it being a cup, a demi-task, my client has learned to live on fresh air and scraps of love. It's a sad cup. We actually use this and this is where my history as a social worker and the fact that I've had three marriages, three disastrous marriages, you know, it all comes in and ah we can we can start, we guess it goes sad But then we can start laughing and then we can start planning and looking at all the options that they have got and lifting their hearts and lifting their minds and reinforcing the the choices element. Yeah, for you. I kind of want to show you my cups. See what you think. Go on then. Shall I go again? Right, I'm back. So I've had this cup for a while and I've just started using it.
00:41:26
Speaker
Pink like powdery pink roses and the lined with gold really shimmery shiny and golden. Right underneath does it say it's Bavarian or Czechoslovakian by any chance? Oh yeah Czech Republic original coblate is it? coblet I know straight away from that cup is that your only cup or your favorite one at the moment?
00:41:48
Speaker
It's my favourite one at the moment. When I have tea, which isn't very often, I'm like, oh I'm going to use a special cup. Right. Has that got gold inside it? No, it's white. It's just white inside it. OK, because the first thing I was going to say is a safety announcement. When you have cups that are a bit older and they've got lots of gold on them,
00:42:09
Speaker
it may be toxic. If the inside of the cup has got lots of gold and paint in it, and it's an older one, it's before the 1960s. then you really need to be careful having hot drinks because it will release some of the chemicals. And I've i've said this to somebody before, and she was insistent. That was her cup for her her, whatever ritual it was. And I said, just beware, it's of an age where it's going to have a high lead content. And she was quite hostile because she just thought I was telling her not to use her cup. But i was you know, it's
00:42:42
Speaker
it is a safety advisement because we know these heavy metals are not good for us. Right, let's go back to the story of the cup. Czechoslovakia. Okay, two countries shoved together, the Czechs and the Slovaks. This is about where you are trying to have conversations with people who are not on the same wavelength as you. Yes, but we all speak English maybe, but their dialect and their culture and their ah their principles, morals and values are at a complete polar opposite to yours and this is you trying to bring them together to understand. That's the first thing I know from your cup. There's all that lovely gold, there's those roses, pink and they're tinged with gold. I know you are trying to get your message out there and for me those pink roses
00:43:27
Speaker
are about self-love teaching others to love themselves and to grow and evolve and be the person that they are the the whole person and you're tickling it up with gold sort of titivating it with gold and this for me is about where you actually tolerate people for a bit longer than is good for you At this moment, Joanne proceeded to give me the most amazing reading that was just so personal and spot on that actually made me cry. So there's a good 10 minute chunk missing because I ah can't produce it. we're just It was just so raw. So I was absolutely flabbergasted and not all ready for this little reading that Joanne gave me off this tacky gold teacup that I just presented.
00:44:17
Speaker
in the interview? Oh, I love it. I love it when people do that and they go, here, do this cup for me. It's mad. Now, see, and as a servant of spirit, I do, if I'm talking to somebody and they want to come in and it's somebody who's open to the idea, if it's somebody who's never had a message before, like bump into them in Tesco's and start chatting, we're not going to do it. But somebody like you, it's like, yeah, go on. ah Thank you for reading my gold cup. I'm not probably not going to use it anymore because of the gold.
00:44:47
Speaker
No, it's all right. The gold's on the outside, so it's not going to harm you. But I do put my gob on it, don't I? So, you know what I mean? um I'll always be thinking about it now. It's done its job, obviously. I meant to show you it. yeah
00:45:03
Speaker
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Speaker
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00:45:50
Speaker
Obviously you can do it with any cups. Could you even do it with a mug? Can you do it with like old school mugs or coffee cups? are If somebody hasn't got a teacup, I'll say well grab a mug. Grab your favourite mug.
00:46:04
Speaker
And it's harder to read because you've got that long edge. And it is just a case of getting the angle right. We can't do, we can do tea leaf reading online. And what I ask people to do is like 10 minutes before the appointment, I send them some instructions how, where to take the photographs, just so I've got a backup set. Or if i if it if it is a mug,
00:46:25
Speaker
I can't see right in that bottom corner so I can go to the photograph to compensate what I can't actually see as the person's holding the cup up to the screen and following instructions to tilt it to the neck. It works just as good as having somebody in person. I was resistant to doing online tea leaf readings for a long time and then obviously covid years and it's like well why did I resist this is so easy it's no different and I think it was just my anxiety of not offering as good a service actually do you know at the end of the day neither of us have had to travel neither of us have had the stress of going into a new house with new people and and it makes it so much easier
00:47:10
Speaker
And it's normalised now, isn't it?
Adapting Spiritual Practice Online
00:47:12
Speaker
I mean, because of lockdown and the generation. Everybody knows what Zoom is, whereas is before, nobody had any idea. I love it. I love it. There are... People who, you know, elderly mums and dads ask, even the Nala's Grandads, ask for a reading. We can't physically get to one another because of the distance or, you know, the lack of mobility, my appointment schedule. And so I say to the right, well, sit at the side of them. Let's do it. I'll record it. They can have access to the recording afterwards.
00:47:42
Speaker
and watch it back so they're not expected to remember everything. And it's lovely so it becomes a little bit of a family experience as well. Does the person who you read at least or do they have to like create the patterns or could you do that too? I could do that too, right? It's like some readers with our tarot, we don't allow allow anybody else to touch my tarot deck, but they always come out right for the client.
00:48:07
Speaker
And we could do it, and there is a a medium out there that does it that way, but I feel it loses something. ah It's the it's the the reader telling them, not them sharing their story. and And for me, very much tea leaf reading, it is that storytelling. I look at past, present, future, what makes you you. For me, it is about the whole person, because as a reader, if I'm setting your tea leaves for you, it will be What's happening now?
00:48:39
Speaker
So and and now does not stand separate to yesterday, last week, last year. Now doesn't stand separate to your future. it all It's the story as it goes. I must tell you, because it's just called to mind, I have twice done being present at my body spirit events and being asked to help people with ah complex disabilities and cerebral palsy to have their tea leaf reading done.
00:49:09
Speaker
And I had to think about the first time i had to think about how do I do this to make it a full experience for my client. Their restricted mobility actually meant that they couldn't turn the cup over like I would ask you to turn a cup over.
00:49:25
Speaker
So I thought about it and I thought, right, I've got plenty of towels, plenty of bubble wrap. So I got them to pick the cup. We just rested the cup on their lap with a ah towel underneath. Then for the turning over part,
00:49:41
Speaker
it was wrapped in a tea towel, wrapped in a towel, wrapped in another towel. So it's like football, so big, bigger than a football beach ball size. And then it was right now, just push it off your lap. So it it rolled like a ball. One of those readings I had to call their partner over and um but we were recording it anyway because there was something that cropped up about safeguarding and the attitude of one of the care workers around this individual. And so we talked around that, we raised that issue with the husband so he could be advocate, he had power of attorney, he he had a voice, brilliant.
00:50:21
Speaker
The second one I did was a guy at the time, he was early 50s, he was just slightly older than me at that time. And I did added exactly the same technique and floating around somewhere was his support worker. But we did it in front of everybody, so no suspicions.
00:50:41
Speaker
He's picked the cup that I took i call nice nana, and nice nana brings cuddles and hugs and soothes you. This guy has rolled the ball of towels and teacup on. Started on the tea leaf reading and I thought, no, no, no, no, I've got a lady here. So there this is lovely commun communicated from communicated from spirit. This man as a baby, as soon as he was born and his disabilities were revealed, his mum didn't want to.
00:51:11
Speaker
So you're talking in a guy who was born in 1960, something like that. His mum didn't want him. He went into foster care. He went to this lady as a a tiny, tiny baby and stayed with her until he was almost 12. Every night, that lady picked him up, cuddled him, kissed him, told him he was a clever boy, told him he was gorgeous, told him he was a good boy, settled him down to bed. At 12, he was removed and taken to a group home.
00:51:41
Speaker
No. Guess how many cuddles he'd ever had since then? Zero. Absolutely. So this lady was coming through and she was crying and he was crying and I called the the support worker over and I said, please listen to this.
00:51:56
Speaker
All this man needs to fulfill him is somebody who is prepared to unconditionally love him, sling their arms round him and say, oh my God, it's lovely to see you today. I said, that's all he needs. You know, because in in the care, the care that's provided now, we are discouraged to make those attachments. It is a very, you know, it just happens. The care happens. It's very, it's hands on, but heart off.
00:52:26
Speaker
And we've got to remember that these people that we are being cared for are humans and characters. So to have this lady coming through was an absolute joy for him. It was painful, but by God, he had missed that lady every day from being 12 years old. She had never been allowed just to visit him.
00:52:47
Speaker
the the arrangement was that foster arrangements foster care arrangement ended and her usefulness as a fellow human ended and that was how the the authorities saw it so that'd be early 1970s. For me again it's a challenge communicating with you know learning very quickly all these different ways of communicating with somebody whose ability to vocalise using Makaton with the gentleman, I had to remember you know the basics of Makaton that I had learned
00:53:25
Speaker
God knows how many years before I've forgotten. I mean, that story is amazing. It really is. And I think it shines a light on just how big a deal this is. You know, like a lot of people still think, oh, you know, spiritualism and telling your future and stuff is just a laugh. It's like a Hindu. And it's not. It really is. It can be life changing. It can be life and death. You know, it is that big a deal. You know what I mean? It blows my mind.
00:53:53
Speaker
It is. and And I think if I'd have not been a social worker, would I be as good at what I do? No. And it frightens me that there are mediums and readers out there who don't have the heart or they don't have the skills. I've recently been on some training courses. Yes, I've got a social work qualification. It's now, I've got it in 1990.
00:54:19
Speaker
two so it's it's old and as we know even if you go for a job now and you've got A levels so like me 1982 my A levels they don't count for anything they want me to have a city and guilds level two maths You know, I've got it already. I've got me I've got me a level. it It becomes stale. Your knowledge becomes stale. So I've been and I've done adult education and training level two to build on my experience as a teacher. I've been and I've studied peer mentoring. I've got peer mentoring level one, level two to help with the coaching.
Integration of Social Work and Spiritualism
00:55:00
Speaker
It's a different style of coaching to people who've got a coaching certificate because it is more trusted friend. For me, that's been really important to go back and refresh the skills and bring it back into the mediumship and the the the readings that I do. But there are lots of individuals out there who press forward with their own agenda, who really need to look at their own journey of healing and spiritual growth, but also look at the degree of sensitivity, compassion that they bring to others
00:55:39
Speaker
I think probably the but the nicest compliment I can have is somebody at the end of their session saying oh my god that one like sitting down with me nana and having a conversation it's like oh Joanne you're like a big sister to me that's lovely because what they're what they' sensing um and gaining is that love that I have for them and it is that global family we have because I've got clients I have um I'm the worst traveller in the world but I've had clients in 75 different countries in the next few days I've got a client who's in Malawi and it's just like so it's my global family I love them there is no reason why I shouldn't love them if people would like to contact you or find you what where can we find you give yourself a plug
00:56:27
Speaker
If you want to look at reviews, then I'd say go to Google and put my name in, followed by psychic media. If you're on Facebook, I'm known as Madame César on Facebook, Instagram Madame César. Honestly, I'm not very tech-minded and sometimes it takes me longer to work out how to do something.
00:56:48
Speaker
And I could be doing something else with my time like taking the dog a walk. So I'm not very good at reels. I'm not very good at anything. But between Instagram, Madam Cesar, you can find out what shows and what my body spirit shows I'm at. I do. It's just happened in June. But every year I do York International Tattoo Convention.
00:57:08
Speaker
fantastic day out, well, two days. I absolutely love it there. Then any demonstrations, any churches I'm going to be at, I always advertise when there's when I'm doing a demonstration online because it's usually no cost. So I'll advertise no cost and low cost opportunities to see me work. And then there are those that are ticketed, organized by other people. If I'm going to do a tea leaf reading course, how to read tea leaves,
00:57:36
Speaker
the first place it it's advertised is Madame César. I probably teach three, four times a year, but I actually like it when other people host and act as the organiser and I just come in because I am not very good at the the admin.
00:57:54
Speaker
the bitty. I'm not pretty good at bitty things, I like to go in and know exactly what I'm doing. If you're in the Leeds area and or you can access Leeds, and again Louise Bloomer and I have been talking about her hosting another masterclass, so it's three hours of fast-paced, learnt tea Leeds.
00:58:14
Speaker
big tea later That'd be amazing, it I want to come. Between watching The Wiccan Lady and watching Madame César on Facebook, you should find out about it. But yeah quite often places go really quickly. You've got just a divine timing when it's so when it's meant to be, it definitely will be. Well, it's placed at the right time.
00:58:34
Speaker
And I always come back to it, it's like trust, trusting, like spirit and the universe and all that jazz things. If you're open to them and you just go with the flow, things will happen. This has been a really amazing interview. Thank you so much. If people wanted to get into tea leaf reading, have you got any sort of advice for beginners, like tips or something you always say to people when they go, how do I do this? Putting you on the spot an hour.
00:59:02
Speaker
when I do the teaching I talk through building up skills that you need okay and I would actually say go on the internet and search dot to dot puzzles for adults Anybody who's got kids, the kids have had a dot to dot puzzle book, colouring book with puzzle dot to dots in it. And the child that's really astute will look and go, oh, I'm not doing that, it's a tractor. I'm not doing that, it's a tree. you know and And they can see just from the dots, they can put the pieces together and go, ah, it's one of those.
00:59:40
Speaker
And that's one of the skills needed for tea leaf reading. Parapsychologists have labeled them apophenia and pareidolia. So spotting patterns in random data is apophenia, and pareidolia spotting faces and images in random data. And those are the two talents but you also need people to practice on so if you come to my day as a master class we can have up to 20 people so you can work with people you have never met before if it's a ah whole day training which i do recommend because we actually go right through to introducing spirit in readings as well
01:00:26
Speaker
on a one day. With that, you're probably working with anything between eight and 12 people. So you all get a lot of individual coaching as well to to help you bring out your talent. um Anybody from an artistic background, I always say, look at the white space, not the tea leaves, because an artist's eye looks at things differently to the rest of us.
01:00:53
Speaker
And I'd also say, trust your instincts, like if you have random thoughts, if you feel in a certain way, you don't know why. I mean, I get a lot of that, like, don't question it, just accept it. Write it down. Yeah, absolutely. Brilliant. Is there anything else you'd like to say or finish on?
01:01:11
Speaker
All I'm going to say is it's been absolutely lovely having a chat with you. And we've only ever met with you as coming to me as a client. So to actually see you in a different light has been absolutely lovely. And I hope that seeing me in a different light, it's it's going to start a connection that we never thought we had.
Closing Remarks of Bell Witch Podcast
01:01:34
Speaker
You have been listening to the Bellwetch podcast. Created with Love and Magic by me, Swales, the friendly green witch. I love to hear from you and I absolutely love, love, love, love to celebrate you. If you have a podcast or a business, a witchy business, a pagan related topic you love to talk about, you can reach me on the bell witch podcast at Yahoo!
01:02:01
Speaker
dot com Send me a trailer and I will absolutely play it because there is magic in sharing audiences amongst podcasts. Music by Jeff Harvey of Pixabay. The official Bell Witch photographer is the lovely Beverly Thornton. Thank you so much for choosing the Bell Witch podcast to fill your ears. Stay magical witches!