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Channelling Deities: How Art and Spirituality Intertwine in Modern Witchcraft
475 Plays12 days ago
In Episode 52 of The Bell Witch Podcast, "Witching in the 21st Century," host Swailes, the Friendly Green Witch, interviews Naomi Cornock, a witch and very gifted spiritual artist. Naomi shares her journey of intertwining art and nature-based magic, emphasizing her deep connection to the land and Celtic deities. The episode explores Naomi's artistic process, including her first deck- ‘The Old Way is Magic Oracle’ and her belief in making art accessible. They discuss the balance of energies in her work, the importance of community, and the transformative power of art in spiritual practice. Naomi's insights inspire listeners to reconnect with nature and creativity.
Find Naomi here- https://www.nomeart.com/
Podcast Pals- Embracing Enchantment- https://www.embracingenchantment.com/
The Eye Opener Society- https://open.spotify.com/show/4SDqgejalC8BXEFbfEwTmZ?si=df1c78ba53054155
Twisted Tails- https://open.spotify.com/episode/5CCaOhTaBr03xhyo8EZA40?si=FtrTs4gZRYK8t5pwQU5qyw
Scottish Murders- https://open.spotify.com/show/63qdcQbADDUbB7L9B0Nl4G?si=7f11d3e4fc2d442d
Part of Darkcast Network - https://www.instagram.com/darkcastnetwork/
Made with love and magic by Swailes 2025- https://linktr.ee/friendlygreenwitch
Support the show on Patreon- https://www.patreon.com/c/TheBellWitchPodcast
#magick #witch #witchcraft #thebellwitchpodcast #pagan #spiritualart #spells #celticmagic
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Transcript
Introduction and Podcast Overview
00:00:01
Speaker
I'm Megan Hamilton, a professional tarot reader, speaking coach, and the host of the Embracing Enchantment podcast. We're going to explore your deepest self through practical magic, spirituality, and ritual.
00:00:16
Speaker
I'll invite special guests who will share their eclectic practices and help us integrate a wide range of modalities into our everyday lives. We'll talk tarot, shadow work, human design, the power of moon cycles, manifestation, and so much more.
00:00:34
Speaker
I've been inspired by the magic of ritual for over 25 years, and I know you will be too. So let's find the most enchanted version of ourselves.
Swales' Podcast and Special Episode
00:00:44
Speaker
Follow and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts, and listen for new episodes every other Friday.
00:00:59
Speaker
the Dark Cast Network, bringing our indie podcasts out of the shadows................
00:01:36
Speaker
Now then, witches and beautiful souls. Oh my God, I had a scare then. I've been working hard on this episode and then my software crashed. So was just freaking out all night after three hours of work.
00:01:51
Speaker
Anyway, it started responding again at about 2am. So it's okay. It's here. Panic over. How are you witches? I hope you are all very well.
00:02:03
Speaker
I am probably gallivanting for half term at the moment and so I'm recording and editing this episode really really early on to make sure i am not delayed.
00:02:14
Speaker
Terrible. She's out gallivanting and she should be making an episode. Terrible. Welcome to the Bell which podcast Witch Witching in the 21st Century with me, Swales, and the Friendly Green Witch.
00:02:26
Speaker
This is episode 52, another moot loop because life is mad at the moment and was only recorded ah week ago or so, so that's really, really impressive for me.
Interview with Naomi Cornock: Spiritual Artistry
00:02:39
Speaker
In this Mootloo episode, we speak to a lovely witchy spiritual artist and creator, Naomi Cornock, who was a truly wonderful guest and spoke to me all about what she gets up to in them beautiful hills.
00:02:56
Speaker
Her spiritualism, her rituals of creating these wonderful pieces directed and influenced by deity and goddesses, nature and trees and life in general. It's beautiful.
00:03:12
Speaker
And this witch might have a deck or two by Naomi because they're just so lovely. It's a really lovely episode. And I just love interviewing people and connecting with witches and spiritual beings. Oh my God, it makes me so happy.
00:03:28
Speaker
A little shout out to my podcast app pals over the pond as well while I'm here. Eye Opener Society with Gary and Hannah.
00:03:39
Speaker
They are one of my biggest cheerleaders. Bless them. They're always giving me a shout out and I really do appreciate it. And I think their podcast ethos matches my own massively in terms of supporting each other.
00:03:53
Speaker
giving each other shout outs. And they also do this really cool thing where they share other people's podcasts on their feed. I just love that. It's kind of like a podcast hub. Very inspirational. I would love to do that.
00:04:05
Speaker
And I will hopefully get on there, but it's hard to organise because it's like eight hours time difference or something. And we've all got jobs and kids and stuff. So I've been saying I'll go on to the podcast for a good year or so now.
00:04:19
Speaker
I am notoriously hard to book. on a show, which is, and if I'm honest, it is a little bit out of my comfort zone because I'm such a control freak and I edit and I obsess and I scrutinise everything I say and I just kind of get a bit scared that I'm not in control of that podcast, but I need to get over it because part of growing is visiting other people's shows. So come on, Swales, you got to get over it.
00:04:47
Speaker
It will happen. It will happen. And I'm sending all my love and I'll link them in the show notes. ah Another podcast I've got a quickly mention is Twisted Tales.
00:04:58
Speaker
Chris R. Tale, because he's another one that's always shouting me out. We're in this little podcast community and we often mention each other in each other shows. I just love it. It's what I'm here for.
00:05:09
Speaker
It's a right love fest. Well, it is the season after all. It is February.
Nature, Art, and Spiritual Practices
00:05:14
Speaker
And like I always say, there is magic in sharing audiences amongst podcasts and also bollocks to capitalism.
00:05:25
Speaker
Hello and welcome but to my little witchy podcast. Is it Naomi or Naomi? It's Naomi. Yeah. Naomi. Yeah. Just want to check that because I'm so dyslexic.
00:05:37
Speaker
but Oh God, join the club. Amazing to have you on. I am such a fan of your work. I've got two decks, the first and the second one, and I've got your bunting and everything.
00:05:49
Speaker
Yeah. Thank you so much. Support us all, all us poor little artists out there. All the witchy businesses, I love it. So would you like to introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about your witchcraft, the type of witch you are?
00:06:03
Speaker
So my name's Naomi Cornock. I live in Devon. I live just south of Dartmoor, which is the national park here. And it's beautiful, amazing place, just full of magic. My magic is nature best magic, very much of an animist, sort of bent in the sense that everything I believe, there is spirit everywhere and and spirit is with us at all times. And it's just whether we can be open enough to to tap into it or whether we we want to get that connection.
00:06:30
Speaker
So often it's very hard because we're very disconnected when we're in our houses and on our streets and stuff like that. And when I came to Devon, because originally I wasn't from Devon, I just felt that I suddenly had roots. It was amazing. Like literally my feet would hit the ground and I and i felt grounded.
00:06:47
Speaker
And that's really sparked my last sort of 15 to 20 years of devotion to to nature and to the spirits and to pay my paganism, which is like I said, about healing the land and healing ourselves.
00:07:00
Speaker
So that's my bent. And of course, deities come into it. It's very Celtic based. Most a lot of the deities, they come to me that I've sort of drawn and expressed in my in my art.
00:07:10
Speaker
And they're very, that so therefore they're often very Celtic based. I like to journey with them as well. So very shamanic as well. And have you always been an artist? Yeah, yeah. I would say the witchcraft I have, because I don't necessarily do incantations or spells in a, it's not even a traditional sense, is there?
00:07:29
Speaker
but just in a Wiccan sense. But I very much try to work directly with spirit and with and with spirits in nature. So, i yeah, witchcraft is one of those weird ones, isn't it? was well would I perceive myself as a witch, but I don't know if culturally i am embraced as a witch, if you see what i mean.
00:07:47
Speaker
But it's um it's my identity as a person that feels nature and my art expresses that feeling. So they're connected and intertwined. And to be frank, my art wasn't really that much up to scratch, even for me, and like looking at it, going I was always disappointed, always felt it was lacking.
00:08:06
Speaker
But when I married it with my pagan practice, so the sense that I just opened myself up and said, no, I'm not going to draw a portrait or anything like that, I'm just going to see what's going to come out. And so much grew from that, just letting that pour out onto the page, this And then it became deities and then it became spirits. And then iv was able to identify things.
00:08:28
Speaker
So to me, they are the same. The magic is the art. The art is the magic. Oh, I love that. and Would you say the act of drawing is kind of like your, is it a ritual? Yeah, very much so. yeah I've actually recently had a discussion with um a lady in in America about the magic in an original piece.
00:08:49
Speaker
And I believe that the magic is in prints and everything in the actual image itself and and how people internalize that. But the actual object of a original piece of piece of artwork where you can see the underdrawing and the overdrawing and the pixel work and the line work, the detail and depth is more than I can get in a print. There's just so much technology can do.
00:09:13
Speaker
and I do believe that's because when I am drawing, I'm drawing everything. almost in trance or in meditation, when it's really flowing. Of course, this is not all the time, because that would be really extreme for the amount of time.
00:09:26
Speaker
So, for example, I can either go on a journey meditat through meditation and connection in the landscape by standing stones, by a tree, on the heath, and I walk in the landscape that is inside and outside myself.
00:09:40
Speaker
That's when I meet the deities, that's when I meet spirits, that's when a theme comes. crystallizes in my head of the intention. So for me, the spell work is intentional work. That's what happens is I'm almost weaving a spell when I visualize it and then when I pour it out onto the page because the dot work that I do is trance-like. So there's layers built up and some layers, some have ogm or om coming out of them. Other ones have runes coming out of them. Other ones have spirits that appear halfway through the painting but then disappear
00:10:10
Speaker
and then another one will reappear somewhere else. So for me, that is direct magic and and there is something very special in the process which comes through in the product.
Art as Spiritual Expression and Connection
00:10:22
Speaker
And I can feel that. at This deck, the Alderways Magic Oracle, it is one of my favourite and my most used decks. I can feel the depth and the magic. and Oh, it's a lovely, lovely deck.
00:10:33
Speaker
I mean, it must take you quite a while as well to create ah one piece of art. So some pieces of art, there's um a piece in there called the Wild Goddess, which is the world card.
00:10:44
Speaker
And I went to three different places on the moor. I went to Skoril Stone Circle, which is one of my, I believe, ancestral stone circles because I have such an affinity and connection to it. And I had, I meditated there.
00:10:56
Speaker
And then I went and meditated on Bone Hill, which is my, again, an ancestor's place for me. um and it's right directly north, I think, northwest of where my um family used to live in Totnesse.
00:11:11
Speaker
hundreds and hundreds of years ago. So my great-great-grandmother got married in Totnes. Then the whole family shifted to Australia. And then I came back. 200 years later or 100 and something years later and landed in Devon and said, wow, this is my home. And that's when I found out my mum said, oh, yes, by the way, your great grandmother got married sort of like down the road. So for me, when I do visit these places in Dartmoor, especially like little local places like Bone Hill, which is not a huge famous tour, I really feel really close to my ancestors.
00:11:40
Speaker
And I do believe that they would have walked the same paths that I'm walking today. And it's just a really deep connection to that and ah and a deep feeling of place. that I have never felt before, especially as a white Australian, I never felt a sense of place in Australia in the sense that I loved it. Beautiful country, most wild, amazing, amazing landscape.
00:12:01
Speaker
But it very much the indigenous Aborigines knew Their land, they sang their land, they sang the lands like we've seen the ley lines. It's the same thing, they they walk it as they can now, they've tried have been decimated quite a lot. But that's how they saw the landscape, they interacted with the landscape in spirit form, in a very animist way.
00:12:21
Speaker
And it was their land, the the myths and everything, it just was a disconnect for me. And it wasn't until I came to this to Britain, to to England, that I started to go, Oh wow, it fucking makes sense. Oh, this makes sense.
00:12:34
Speaker
Sorry for swearing. That makes sense. This makes sense. Everything started to form a ah cohesive story in my head about how the world works. And i personally believe that spirit was talking to me directly.
00:12:46
Speaker
Spirits do. um a kind of am a bit of a walking hallucination. They're always with me, literally, because I say the Morrigan walks with me and she will literally be walking with me through the landscape.
00:12:57
Speaker
And so she and other spirits would draw me to different places. So Bonehill was the second place that I i meditated for, the wild goddess. And then the last place was by a Rowan tree growing between Houndtour and Greater Tor rocks.
00:13:13
Speaker
It's where there's a medieval ruined village there as well. And then there's a kiss down, just down the road. from You know i mean? Everything was just dotted around. It was just a sweet spot and had the most amazing experiences there. And then that's what I painted for The Wild Goddess, which was also a devotional piece for a friend who works with trees and with Dartmoor magic as well.
00:13:36
Speaker
So, yeah, a lot of those things may come through requests, but it's usually i only take a request when it's synchronizing with my process and and where I'm at at the same time. I find that incredible that that you left and nothing felt right and you came back and it all just slotted into place. It just shows how when we allow ourselves to be honest and connected with where we're meant to be things come to fruition, don't they?
00:14:02
Speaker
Yeah. And it's quite an amazing feeling to feel Indigenous in your land. The other half of the family, for example, from my mother's side, come from Newquay. That Celtish, Cornish, Devonish or Dominovian connection runs very, very deep.
00:14:19
Speaker
for me and that means ah was um it was like coming home and it was and that's where I felt enough calmness within myself to be able to get that deep connection and to open myself out I don't feel it's an egotistical thing art for me am just channeling what I see and what I've been asked to see either that be by spirit or another witch or another magic person Oh, it beautiful. I love it.
00:14:45
Speaker
I mean, I've got this vision of you in the hills doing your drawing and you're sketching amongst the land. I mean, is that how it is? And then also elements are like, going to rain.
00:14:56
Speaker
No, don't rain. Cover it up. I have to say, i am as I've gotten older, I'm much more fair-weather pagan than I have been in the past. But because of the weather situation, especially if I'm on the moor or even there's other places I've been because I travelled a lot before I settled in Devon um and I went to several places. ah I stayed in Fast Lane for a while at the protest camp there.
00:15:21
Speaker
And at the back of the protest camp, it's in Scotland, is the most, ah um um it's just an amazing grove. It had mature oaks and all of the stones were were kind of in a circle, but were they a circle? And they're all mossed over. So I call those kind of rocks rock trolls.
00:15:38
Speaker
um And I imagine that they come alive night and walk around. Like from Frozen, innit? Yeah, absolutely. So, yeah. so And when I was in Australia, often I could just take my sketch pad out, sketching around and stuff like that.
00:15:54
Speaker
A lot of journaling and in space and stuff. It rained horrendously and it was, yeah, I had this one piece and it was just like, it was just a melted mass of black ink.
00:16:06
Speaker
be good wouldn't yeah Exactly. I was like, okay, I'm going to be my mom. But the most wonderful thing, and I'm not a tech head at all, was the invention of the smartphone.
00:16:17
Speaker
It really has revolutionized for me my process in so many ways because now I don't have to just, not just, but I i i can record much easier.
00:16:28
Speaker
So I can be visualizing in nature. So actually sitting down, meditating, And it all happens in my head. And then I can take photos. And then the photos can be my visual reference to to jog what the vision was, as opposed to trying to get it all down on paper at once. Because for me, there's so many processes of gathering.
00:16:50
Speaker
and So I would go, because I go to so many different places, I kind of just don't have to start the drawing in one place and then finish it in another place, et cetera, et cetera. I just gathering information, feelings,
00:17:03
Speaker
emotions or reactions and recording it all and then when I'm back in the studio which is actually my house you know it's a studio house for me then it pours out on the paper in different ways and I and i use the reference photos as like I said jogging jogging for the memory and and able to then drawer remember to draw, oh, the bramble leaf, just like that i one I saw, which was living there in that place. I want that bramble leaf, at least one of them, represented in there. So, yes, friend of mine once called it Frankenstein drawing.
00:17:37
Speaker
Gathering lots of things and putting them together on the page. and I like that. It just gives you more freedom as well, doesn't it? Like more space to think and... Yeah.
00:17:48
Speaker
And I'm not sort of like, oh, I have to get it now while I can see it sort of thing. or I must get it down. it's It's like, no, I take that photo and I can take that with me and then I can look and just observe it and then really, you know, reconnect with it when I'm back in the studio, when I've got time.
00:18:06
Speaker
Because the amount of cramping coldness that seeps through your bones you're outdoors. Drawing in one spot for any point of time. Out there too long. Then the moss starts to crawl up your legs.
00:18:20
Speaker
I mean, i love that when you do your art, you kind of, you go into a higher realm, aren't you? And you work with spirit and goddesses. Is there any particular deity that you work with often? Would you say like as your guide or your mentors?
Creating Oracle Decks and Spiritual Path
00:18:36
Speaker
Yeah. So Ellen of the Ways, the Morrigan, of course, especially Morrigan when I'm dealing with my shadow work. She really is ah strength, a tower of strength for me when I'm facing my biggest fears and and my darkest moments sort of thing.
00:18:51
Speaker
And Ellen of the Ways is just the, she is the wild goddess for me. She's something archaic that I often can't express in words, but I've drawn her many times.
00:19:02
Speaker
Embedded in my pictures, there'll be an Ellen of the Ways somewhere. Some lady with antlers will appear, or there'll be a ah little ah stag in the in the distance in the background or something like that. And They're all my references to her and the ways of of the herd as well, moving with nature.
00:19:21
Speaker
um There's so much to be learned still or relearned, shall we say, from the great um migration movements of of of the reindeers and even horses and the other other herd animals, bison.
00:19:33
Speaker
They're following the food. They're not overfeeding. They move on. You see, there's not not an approach to manipulating animals. the landscape, but working with the landscape, which we all need to re-embrace as a whole world, not just individuals going vegan or doing their bit and rewilding.
00:19:53
Speaker
That's all you can do personally. And everyone, I think, is doing as much as they can in that way. But the whole world has to embrace this different way of working with nature that we live with. And I want us to become custodians.
00:20:06
Speaker
That's my vision for us as humanities, is that we no longer become someone who depends on nature, we've gone beyond that. Now we are custodians of nature and our whole job is to rewild the world and we will figure out how to feed ourselves without having to ruin the nature anymore.
00:20:23
Speaker
It is a beautiful dream and a very necessary one because we need to thrive without taking from it. And I've got your deck here and I'm looking through it and I can see the thieves running through it.
00:20:34
Speaker
Kernanus as well is one of the gods because I did have a real problem going through my menopause. I don't know. I know it doesn't happen to all women, but menopause rage was big with me.
00:20:46
Speaker
and i lived through it. Carly Ma was out there on my head, you know, doing really... really aggressive stuff. And a lot of my rage was very much focused on men, but not men as people, but as intoxicant masculinity as it is represented in patriarchy today. And that I needed to come to terms with that.
00:21:07
Speaker
So I needed to embrace the sacred masculine and say, no, there is not just dispersion of of men or maleness, or there is also other alternatives. And I think carniness really embraces that that really positive masculine aspect of, you know, of men.
00:21:25
Speaker
And hopefully that can take away the horribleness that is coming through at the moment. Yeah, we're all about balance. We need both as pagans. You know, we need the light and the dark. Yeah, absolutely. Male, female, light, dark. The dark means make one, don't they? At this point in the interview, i am looking through Naomi's deck, looking in all the gods and goddesses she's speaking about, which isn't so helpful on an audio only podcast.
00:21:51
Speaker
Although the video will be in my Patreon, so I just thought might be worth a quick plug right there. That's him, is the wild mage. Yeah. And you'll see appears as well as the... um So, for example, in the background here, I've got Colonelness of Sacred Masculine, which was the piece that I worked on.
00:22:08
Speaker
Here's the solstice piece in the deck next to his sister, Sheila Nagig. And he's very much embracing that positive sun god, fertility god, masculinity full of virility and vitality and all those positive, active elements of masculinity.
00:22:26
Speaker
feel a little bit better now. A little bit more balanced than I was. balanced, yeah. Yeah. I know this is probably quite a hard question, but have you got a favourite piece? I mean, that's like asking a huge question, but there must be one or two that you always think of.
00:22:41
Speaker
Yes, yeah. Mainly because of the journey. So the more profound the journey I have with a piece... the more it stays with me. But the the one, of course, is the one behind me, which is Sacred Journey, which is the beginning of the deck.
00:22:57
Speaker
Because that was almost literally the beginning of my journey as a, how can I say it? I actively did. So I think I've been practicing paganism in a sense, or connecting to the earth in sense, all my life.
00:23:10
Speaker
So when I was a child, i was dancing to the moonlight. For no real reason, there was no you know purpose to it, but just that I loved it. And walking in the woods was just you know something I did all the time because obviously I had woods close to me, which was very lucky because I grew up next to a jungle and then I grew up next to ah a cowrie forest.
00:23:30
Speaker
um in Australia. A little island called Christmas Island was where I was born and that was in just south of Indonesia. That's when I lived next to the jungle. I was so blessed to have this amazing nature around me and then when I was um older my parents moved to Australia with us and then we lived next to this amazing jarrah forest, not Carrie forest, jarrah forest.
00:23:50
Speaker
And then yet again just walking amongst giants is just wonderful. um And then when I came here It was in Devon with oak trees as well, that sort of connection. And so this one was the beginning of me going, no, I want to actively and deliberately interact with spirits of the landscape and spirits and see what they can teach me and how I can learn and and grow.
00:24:13
Speaker
And that was in the Forest of Dean, that revelation of that healing journey, because for me, I was seeking healing. I was seeking my own healing. And that's why I think lots of people connect with that because you do you the spiral takes you into you yourself and then brings yourself out again.
00:24:30
Speaker
And hopefully that will bring some revelation, something new to you through that process of looking at the piece and going into it and coming out just as I do. So, yes, so that one that one's will forever stay with me in my heart. And then there's another one as well that I still...
00:24:46
Speaker
deeply connected with this is one called Anu, which is the Morrigan as the healing Anu in her aspect. And um that was all about balance, that piece definitely. um She's holding an apple and she's holding like honey mead, dripping from one hand and an apple on the other.
00:25:04
Speaker
She's in the call of the Morrigan deck and she's surrounded by all the natural creatures and domestic creatures. And she's got a huge staff at the back, which is a shaman staff. And on the other side is the staff of the tribes.
00:25:16
Speaker
So again, it's spirit, people, balance, bounty, nature, nurture. ah So yeah, so for me, that really grounds me, that picture. And it's just joyful.
00:25:28
Speaker
Have you got two decks? Yeah, so the Call of the Morrigan deck. Have you seen that one yet? It's the recent one, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. it's the recent one. But the one that is very directly to do with my practice still and how I still practice. So every day I use my deck, the old Old Ways Oracle deck.
00:25:46
Speaker
And the Old Ways Oracle deck is the one which I connect most deeply with at all times. So um it's a constant thing for me. And often it's not just a divination tool, it's more of a focus meditation tool.
00:25:59
Speaker
um So I will pull out one card and I will focus on that card throughout my task that I've drawn it for or for the day, just for a general feeling. I'll often go for a walk in the morning or hopefully, I do try in the morning, but sometimes the afternoon. But whenever I go for a walk on the heath,
00:26:16
Speaker
which is just down the road from me, I always take my deck with me and I'll always sit in the heath and I'll draw a card and then i'll I'll try and learn from that card. I'll use it as a tool of self-reflection just as much as anything else.
00:26:28
Speaker
Why did I pull this card? What is it in this card that is calling to me? What do i need to take away from this, etc.? And that's really nice. Again, it's a grounding process. and it allows you to get on with your day and just remind yourself every now and then, oh don't
Challenges of Self-Publishing and Philosophy
00:26:44
Speaker
get stressed out. You're trying to be gentle with yourself today. For example, if I'd pulled deer, I would be really aware that just to be gentle with myself and gentle with others. So if I start feeling like I'm, you know, getting stressed,
00:26:56
Speaker
overly stressed or too hyped up then I can go no no be gentle and then just hold that and bring myself down for me it's it's great and also it collects me with with the hawthorn tree or with with those set of rocks um in that area I use it all the time that is my magic deck that I use I can see why. I absolutely adore it.
00:27:18
Speaker
And when you brought the second one out with the numbers, I wasn't even more overjoyed because I was always on the verge of like you know writing a little tiny number in the corner. I know. Because I didn't want to bring it out. that I thought, no, like I can't. i I wanted to be able to just add the extra cards to the first deck, but it's the same deck. It's just like the second edition, isn't it? With the numbers on it and stuff. But yeah, because I've had feedback from people saying, oh, please put some numbers on And I was like, oh that's pretty practical.
00:27:51
Speaker
And then I also finally be able to form it all because the first deck missed out on the bond, for example, in the wheel of the year. Because as you know, the whole deck, my whole process is about following nature through the seasons.
00:28:02
Speaker
It's another way why i connected so deeply to here in the north, because it's so seasonal. And you can really feel yourself walking through the year and walking through time and space.
00:28:13
Speaker
The second one out was was the additional cards that I really wanted to put in the first one, but I just hadn't managed to do them yet. and And because I did the first one, because everyone was, at well, not everyone, but lots of people that I knew were asking me, can you please bring out this Old Ways Magic deck?
00:28:28
Speaker
Because a lot of people were quite traumatized COVID. Oh, God. i know. and they were just going, please, you just want something we can focus on sort of thing. So I went ahead. It was supposed to be a published before COVID by publishing company, but they pulled out.
00:28:44
Speaker
Like, as soon as COVID hit, they was just like, no, it's not going to happen. was like, oh, okay. And I'd sort of got the whole idea together and, i'd you know, done... But I didn't do any, I hadn't done any writing for the guidebook. And then said, stuff it, I'm going to do it anyway. This is a sign for me to do it myself and to take total ownership of this deck and do it exactly how I want to do it, when I want to do it, with the the printers that I want, that I know are ethically aligned with me.
00:29:12
Speaker
i know nothing has been mass produced. I know, you know, so ah for me... It took the process right to the end. I thought I was meant to actually, even though it's not as much money in the sense that, you know, it's not internationally distributed and all that sort of stuff, but it's so...
00:29:30
Speaker
authentically aligned with with me that I am glad I did it the way I did it and I think it was meant to do it was meant to happen that way so in the end the big international company didn't publish it but I think it was published exactly how I wanted it to be done with all my ethics yeah compromise it must be such a mammoth task to design produce and distribute a deck I can't even imagine it It is really epic.
00:29:57
Speaker
I have to say, I can't say that the tech side is absolutely anything to do with me, as we discovered when we tried to connect with this call. But um my lovely husband, who's the other half of the the operation in a way, he did all the design work. So i did he we scanned in the pictures and we put it all on.
00:30:16
Speaker
InDesign, I'm not sure what he used. He used a very fancy, lovely program. And then he did it all. But, yeah, it was it's the writing as well because I'm dyslexic as well as far as, you know, um as I don't... Whoop, whoop, dyslexic. clothes and I So, yeah, so for in in that sense, writing is really challenging for me. I can do it, but it takes me twice as long as anybody else.
00:30:39
Speaker
I overthink it, of course, because I'm slightly neurotic that way as well. And, yeah, and so it's a real struggle. It's not something I... i a medium I take to naturally. um So that was the hardest bit for me was to write it. Yeah, I'm glad I did. I'm glad I did because it got across exactly how I connect with the cards.
00:30:56
Speaker
And then also that I think has a universal connection too, because lots of you guys are getting exactly the same out of the cards as I get. And it amazes me every time I've got, like I put on my,
00:31:07
Speaker
my stories on instagram it's like loads people share with me their pools for that day or how they've they've used the cards or what card they're focusing on that day and they they're going and i relearned this lesson or i thought of this or this made this triggered this in me or this this got me thinking and i was going same here oh it works It does. It has absolutely travelled across all your ethos and all your, what your value and all that it really is. I do feel it quite strongly.
00:31:35
Speaker
And that's why it appeals to us, you know, because it's beautiful, but there's more to it than that. And and it's there.
00:31:50
Speaker
Scottish Mergers is hosted by me, Dawn, and is a multi-award shortlisted victim-focused podcast covering the murders of those from or living in Scotland. We tell each victim's story in a respectful, sensitive, unsensational and unopinionated way.
00:32:05
Speaker
So why not join us wherever you listen to your podcasts and ensure you never miss an episode of Scottish Mergers.
00:32:15
Speaker
Did one day just go, going to make an oracle deck, or did it kind of like slowly come about? Very slowly, very slowly. Yeah. um So the beginning, which is that that picture there, that was, like I said, a healing process for me.
00:32:31
Speaker
And I've done 12 pictures that has taken me right through that the healing process I began with that one. And it finishes with a card that's not in this deck. It's in my healing series, which is called death. So it it takes me right through the same cycle as the Wheel of the Year, that same process of of life, death, rebirth, that we, I believe, consistently, the universe exists on that process.
00:32:57
Speaker
um So that was that one. And then there's other ones that I did, which like again, I did Eleanor the Ways because she called to me, I did a morrigan. And because I discovered a wonderful lady called Sam, who lived in Wales as well, who just embodied the morrigan in one photo that was taken by a friend of mine in in North Devon when she stayed there. And she just, it was, they were camping in his land.
00:33:18
Speaker
This picture just, he took this picture and he braced the morrow and i asked her if I could use it. And that's when I now really just use people I know to a degree in pictures that I don't see the the face of the goddess or the god or the spirit directly, or I think they just embody it amazingly. So um so things like that.
00:33:37
Speaker
So I was just accumulating pictures for about, five, six years? And then there's two lovely ladies ah um who I did the witch's market with or who did the witch's market when I did it called Barbara and Flavia.
00:33:50
Speaker
They have done loads of um Oracle decks and they said, oh, we'd really love to do an Oracle deck with you. fantastic. Oh, yeah. And I was like, yeah, sure. Yeah, that sounds great. And I thought, and that got me thinking. I thought, oh how would my work be an Oracle deck? How would it work that way?
00:34:05
Speaker
And then i I started collecting the images I thought I could use as a journey through the wheel of the year. And then I started working with them in that way as a motivat meditation, as a focus card, as a divination. So every Sabbath, I would do a bigger reading. So this was with a deck I just cobbled together out of prints and stuff like that, little meditation card prints.
00:34:28
Speaker
um And then it grew and grew and it was to a point where i was going, wow, this is something. And then I thought I showed delay the girls and they were like, oh, that's out that looks great. That looks great. We were going to start collaborating and then COVID hit and their publisher pulled out. And then so it all fell apart.
00:34:43
Speaker
And the girls just said, oh, we're so sorry. We can't. do it with you anymore and it was like that's fine because that's when I started think no I've been using it like this anyway my art this way anyway since sort of like I'd had that ink they'd dropped that seed in my head and I loved it and it was flowing so much and and that like I said people said they wanted it um so I want to give it a go and try and do it that way but this would be an accumulation of work of a decade
00:35:15
Speaker
Oh, wow.
Artistic Process and Communal Value
00:35:16
Speaker
Yeah, it's so a lot and I remember the moment I discovered your deck. I think I was in a a maternal journal group where they're all obsessed with Oracle and Tarot. We're always slinging cards around and Sally Golightly, who runs it, I think she was a bit like, look at this deck online. We were all going, oh my God, I need it. I need it.
00:35:40
Speaker
Which is how it goes. Exactly, exactly. I wondered, this is my favourite. The Endure is my favourite. Oh, the Caliac. I love this picture so much and I do want a big version for this room.
00:35:56
Speaker
Have you got any sort of background story about this this cat? The Caliac. Oh, she was strong. There's some photographs that I've seen through my life that just stay in my head.
00:36:11
Speaker
And like, for example, there's one photograph a photographer took years and years ago of an Afghan girl who had green eyes. And it's a really famous one that was on like National Geographic and stuff like that.
00:36:24
Speaker
And that photograph has has just stayed with me. And I noticed that she'd come out in different places in my artwork, in the in her eye the color of her eyes and the shape her eyes was oh my god that's that photo and there's another photograph that I've seen and I don't know the photographer but the woman's face was so striking and so amazing and she had the same stance that is the pointing of the finger like that with it's just she's so piercing and she and that's what came through to me when I was trying to channel the caliak
00:36:54
Speaker
Of course, it's not exactly like the photograph because I can never do things exactly they are and I don't think they should be. But it was that feeling, that direct gaze of croon power. She came at just the dawn of my pre perimenopausal stage.
00:37:09
Speaker
ah She's so striking. It's refreshing because when you see pictures of croons, they're always like a certain type of angry, scary looking kid old woman with a big nose and like, you know...
00:37:22
Speaker
Yeah, the the typical green witch type aspect, isn't it? Warts and all. Yeah, exactly, exactly. But this is just a lovely crone I've ever seen. And all the details in the skulls and the beads and stuff, it's like I look at it all the time and I always see something new.
00:37:38
Speaker
Yes, which is what it's supposed to do, exactly. Because the whole process for me is the more you look, the more you see, what you see is what you need. that's what I'm hoping people get out of the art the most.
00:37:49
Speaker
And yeah, there's lots of, there's loads of runes embedded in that particular piece that are really, really evocative for me. And they retain quite a lot of power. I do lots of sigils and bind runes and rune combinations and ulm combinations in my pieces that i personally create.
00:38:08
Speaker
And also that, ah for example, a lot of the There's a thing called um the Cauldron Group on Facebook that I'm part of. And we, for seven years, meditated every week to try and bring everyone back to their senses, bring everyone back to nature, to try and protect nature, to try and reconnect humans with nature.
00:38:25
Speaker
That was our whole intention of our spell. and um and which I work with in Cornwall quite a lot, Michelle Murray-Elliot, she made rune combination um in the spell and I've often got them embedded in my work in one form or another in order to try and keep that spell working and keep it keep that intention going.
00:38:44
Speaker
because it just holds it all the she calls it the web of word I call it the web of weird but and it's just all the threads that connect us together through energy and what energy we bring out and hopefully I feel that if I embed it in my pictures then that energy will then be shared and and continue to grow and hopefully influence people in a good way I'll show you that one as well death I like that one that's another favorite Death. Now, death is great because it's so androgynous. Loads of people see that particular picture as a female when it's actually Arwen, the god of the underworld, the Welsh god of the underworld.
00:39:19
Speaker
And he's also a very good friend of mine who passed away as I was doing this just before I did this piece, which is based on him, Steve. He lived in New Zealand and he was a friend of mine from way back when I was in my Australia days.
00:39:31
Speaker
And it is that fae. He he he was had such fae features. It was like he was... a leprechaun brought to life he was amazing and he's that energy is the energy I wanted to to have for for my Arwen and my death and connection to the faith oh gosh I love even more now yeah and also at the top I've got the hunt the wild hunt going on in the top in the clouds so he's leading the wild hunt um on on Sarwain which is the hunt warriors the dead flying through the skies yes The horse. I love the horse.
00:40:03
Speaker
This horse is tattoo worthy. And one day I will get it put on my body. Do it. A lot of people ask if I can tattoo my work. and I have to say most of my time it's like, if you can get a tattooist to do it, then go for it.
00:40:18
Speaker
I think a lot tattoos look at it sometimes and nice. I can do a version of that, but I'm not doing that because I can probably see the amount of pixel work they'd have to do. It's lovely to know that people love your art and they get it tattooed on you. But also if they do that, then they should probably give you a bit of money because you did design it after all.
00:40:39
Speaker
that Well, yeah, there is ah I always see it as ah um they they're just sharing the magic, aren't they? um And I'm not doing the work. The tattooist is doing the work in a sense, you know.
00:40:52
Speaker
And that's why I like to sell everything as prints. I like to be able sell lots of prints and I like to sell lots of flags because the original piece took a long time. Sometimes it can take three months, sometimes it take three weeks, sometimes three hours. depends on the piece.
00:41:05
Speaker
But I just want it to be shared. I don't want it to be exclusive. I don't want it to be unattainable. Because I don't see the point, then you don't it's not shared. um So if I was to make it someone pay me to have the image to put on their body, then they've got to pay the tattoo.
00:41:20
Speaker
And often it's just too much money for most people. So I would prefer them to be able
Life Experiences Enriching Art
00:41:26
Speaker
to do it. if i can If I can sell the print and make them enough money to live on, then if i can share it freely then i will again it's about balance again it's like valuing both in it like yeah i know so a lot of artists do a tattoo ticket on etsy or whatever it's just like 20 quid just because you've got my eye yeah and if someone wanted to give me 20 quid for that that's fine but you know i i and cannot be bothered I did go that far. That's why I've not got any money, isn't it?
00:41:55
Speaker
That's why we're artists, because we do all this stuff that we love and we never get paid for it. No, because you're just like, oh, well, I quite enjoyed it. It was fine. It wasn't a stress. It wasn't a you know a chore. There is value in it and it should be valued. Absolutely.
00:42:09
Speaker
But I always think that I get things back that is unexpected when I give something away. And that's why I love to gift because I think it's part of the process as well to offer something freely um and either to offer to people. And I've also in the past offered up pieces to spirit by burning it or by putting it in water, etc et cetera, et cetera, because it's it's just it's a good way.
00:42:33
Speaker
I don't actually take commissions anymore um because for me the art is universal as well as personal. So for example, ah for me I'll go, oh, if you wanted if you had a goddess or or a god or a deity or something like that you're really connected with and you wanted me to channel it, I would take it as request and I would try and channel that god or goddess or that being. And then...
00:42:54
Speaker
presenter and if that person connects with it that's great but I don't really want to do i don't do portraits or I don't do things that look like somebody unless I have approached somebody specifically or asked or they you know can you be this deity for me because I see this deity you know manifesting in you or you're embodying this energy do you mind if I use it and if I do that often I will gift the original to the person I did a Samhain piece on Hecate and And I had a friend, Jo Thilwind, and she just she just was hecate for me.
00:43:27
Speaker
um And then I asked her if I could use her and um her dogs for my piece and um and gave her the original in exchange for her. ah that's lovely. Yeah. and But that's how it works, isn't it? Again, it's an exchange, isn't it?
00:43:40
Speaker
Not always money. No, that's true. You'll do it if they tell you, if they're upstairs, tell you to do it, you'll do it. Yeah, yeah, exactly. I am driven a lot. a lot of the time I don't really have a choice. If I don't do it, then it's gone.
00:43:55
Speaker
You'll be bothered. Exactly. Oh, God. Imagine not like acknowledging the Morrigan, for example. it just You can't not do it or else there's, yeah, it's not worth it.
00:44:07
Speaker
I love you. Yeah, totally. Not worth it. What I'm working on now is I've started a Futhark journey. So i worked with the runes quite a lot. And I did a Futhark journey a couple of years ago that I completed. And a lot of work came from that.
00:44:21
Speaker
And it's working with the Elder Futhark throughout the whole three Aeates and with the Norse gods. um Because the Norse gods have been calling me for a while, but I've gone, am I connecting if I'm not connecting?
00:44:35
Speaker
But I have felt very, very driven to do this project now. So again, it's not my choice necessarily. It's just something they're saying, no, now you're going to do it. So that's the next thing is a Futhark journey is a journey through the ruins in Dartmoor landscape. So The runes are embedded in the landscape.
00:44:53
Speaker
I went and did Feo and when I did Feo I went to two bridges and I sought out one specific hawthorn tree and um I sat with that hawthorn tree and then I concentrated on the concepts of Feo, the feeling of Feo, the energy of Feo.
00:45:10
Speaker
or say you And then i also it's the time of year that I started as well, because Feu is beauty, bounty, wealth, I think golden. So I always think autumn when the leaves are falling, but it is the time of pure bounty because you have the seed was also falling as well.
00:45:29
Speaker
So you have the trees falling asleep, but the seeds being left to rise again. you you see So it's that yeah whole cycle thing happening. And that's the bounty of harvest, isn't it, as well. so So those sort of things. So it's all embedded in Dartmoor. I'm going on walks and sitting in the landscape and generating the energy of the rune. And that hopefully will make a rune oracle deck.
00:45:52
Speaker
So yeah, so Dartmoor runelore is the next one I'm working on It's going to take me two years. Wow. Because I'm sitting with each each rune for month and then I go on set various walks and accumulate various pictures, et cetera, et cetera, and then form it within that month. So each picture will start happening within the month that I am sort of concentrating on. So, yeah, so that's another one that's happening. Oh.
00:46:15
Speaker
Nice. And are you a full-time i am, yeah. I used to be a forest school teacher pre-COVID. And then after COVID, of course, everything changed and I got older, less sort of liking to get up at six a in the morning and lighting a fire and corralling three to four-year-olds around ah ah forest a forest scene. Yeah.
00:46:37
Speaker
I said, no, it's fine. i' I'll leave that and let the young ones take over, the energetic ones, um and dedicate myself to art full time. So that was around 2020.
00:46:48
Speaker
twenty twenty Before then, it was just like trying to do it as my day job, which was the forest school job. And then I did art on the side. But yeah, also, it just there wasn't the money in it, we couldn't, we couldn't afford for me to do it. In the end, I was earning, bizarrely, more money through my art than I was, or ever could even think of but um making as a forest school teacher.
00:47:07
Speaker
Because again, it's the same early years, wages are just horrendous. their poverty wages. That's why they can't get anyone to work in the industry. So we were like, well, you know, there was a living crisis cost of crisis going on. So i said, okay, well, i'll I'll, I still do lovely volunteer days though in the summer, which I love.
00:47:25
Speaker
So I go there and I, I light, light fires and play with three to four year olds in the forest. And, but I don't have to, organize them or you know make sure that they're they're all safe etc etc that you have to do when you're actually taking care of them do the fun stuff and then you can exactly I feel quite guilty sometimes I have to say and sorry of go I'm sorry girls I can't deal with that but yeah but so yeah so I am a full-time artist now This may change in the future, but hey, you know i used to work for the so I used to work in the circus. I used to do five performances for for nightclubs in in Camden and Brixton. So yeah, for me, it's whatever i can make money and I do.
00:48:06
Speaker
You used to work in the circus? Yes. What? right I went from Australia. So I did my i did a fine arts degree, graduated from that. Then I traveled around Australia. Then I i sort of worked in between that.
00:48:20
Speaker
in um Southeast Asia and Thailand as an English teacher because the opportunity came up, so I did it. um And then, yeah, I basically didn't stop traveling after university um and just i busked around Australia. Then I went to Europe and I bussed around Europe. Then I met up with some mates and they said, you shall we go and do a fire performance for a Swedish circus? I said, why not?
00:48:45
Speaker
and um And then I worked as a clown doing bloody kids' parties. that That was grim. Oh, my God. But no, it was fun. It was fun. And it was just because I've always worked creatively, whether it's actually drawing something or it's been performing or doing something like that or just, you know, being around other creatives. It's just the way I've been and chosen to live my life.
00:49:09
Speaker
Like I said, I'm not rich because of it, but maybe not rich monetarily, but rich in experience. And I love the choices I made in my life. Don't live in regret. Never live in regret. that's...
00:49:20
Speaker
Yeah, no, true. And it's it's lovely to hear that. And what a fantastic life. I just love that used to travel and see stuff and live next to a jungle and... No, I've been really blessed with my life. I have to say, lucky this time around. Really lucky this time around.
00:49:36
Speaker
Lovely. Well, we've had such a gorgeous interview. Thank you so much. Can you give yourself a plug and let my listeners know where they can find you? I sell all my art online through my website, which is www.nomart.com.
00:49:50
Speaker
And that's also where you can read all of um a lot of the journeys I've been on. with each picture because I like to record that and so that people have a context and they understand how I came to that deity or came to that spirit.
00:50:04
Speaker
And I'm also incredibly active online. Because, you know, I just do because it's visual. So I love Instagram. I'm on despite Zucchini Head, um Head of Meta.
00:50:17
Speaker
I'm always saying because I love reels. I love umm doing videos. I love sharing my art visually and my process. I was going to get a Patreon page, but in the end I'd rather people be able to access it freely, my process, and hopefully they'll get inspired by that. Maybe they'll start there to do art themselves or maybe they'll just be inspired to be happier or or brighten their day.
00:50:36
Speaker
That's the purpose of what I do and share online. So you can find me on Instagram as Naomi Cornock and you can find me on Blue Sky as a Nomart, so N-O-M-E-A-R-T, which is the same as my website. I do post on Facebook, but not much anymore.
00:50:54
Speaker
um Hopefully i can go back to the platform. But at the moment, I'm afraid I've not found it a very nice place anymore. And it doesn't bring out the best in me.
00:51:05
Speaker
so I avoid it. And just concentrate on on lovely things like nature and and plants and animals and and how we can connect to them.
00:51:16
Speaker
And you do markets. Oh, yes, I do markets too. God, why couldn't I? I'm terrible at plugging my savannah. I was like, what else do do? Of course, yes. So, yeah, I do the Witch's Market in Glastonbury three times a year, which is my sort of like regular gig, and that's in April, September, and December.
00:51:34
Speaker
And i also do Fantasy Forest, which is a lovely festival in July. I recommend to everybody. And also I have a, not online, but a group exhibition in Wiltshire, which will be on my events page later on this month.
00:51:50
Speaker
And that will be happening at the beginning of June, where you can see original artwork, past and present. and buy it if you want to or just look at it and see the difference between the original and a print and then maybe you might take a print back with you which is fine as well it's the only time I can ever show my original artwork so there's that oh and one other thing if you want to see another piece of original artwork it's going to be um in an exhibition in a shop in London called the Atlantis shop
00:52:22
Speaker
So it's the Atlantis Bookshop in Museum Street in London. In a week's time until April, they'll have one of my pieces up there and they're doing a really cool tarot oracle display with um other artists as well who are oracle tarot artists with their original works as well as the decks available. So wanted to check out.
00:52:41
Speaker
Lots going on for you then. It looked sounded like a busy year. Every year's a busy year. I think it is. I think because lots of people say, oh, you're so prolific. And i was like, well, I am and I'm not. If you take into account the first 30 something years of my life, I was drawing, but it wasn't pagan. It wasn't my journey. draw It wasn't a journey with purpose.
00:53:05
Speaker
So although this kind of this last decade has made up for ah last 30 years of, you know, asking about, but having a great time. Yeah. But since I've been in Devon, that's when the journey really started.
00:53:18
Speaker
And um yeah, so don't know why I was talking about that either. It's all gone. I love it.
Conclusion and Community Engagement
00:53:25
Speaker
Thank you very much for coming on at to at the Bell Witch Podcast. Thank you so much for inviting me. I'm so so pleased to have made it finally. We had a cut a couple of like false starts, didn't we?
00:53:35
Speaker
Busy witches.
00:53:40
Speaker
You have been listening to the Bell Witch Podcast. created with love and magic by me swales the friendly green witch i love to hear from you and i absolutely love love love love to celebrate you if you have a podcast or a business a witchy business a pagan related topic you love to talk about you can reach me on the bell which podcast at yahoo dot com send me a trailer and i will absolutely play it because there is magic in sharing audiences amongst podcasts music by jeff harvey of pixabay the official bell witch photographer is the lovely beverly thornton thank you so much for choosing the bell witch podcast to fill your ears stay magical witches
00:54:40
Speaker
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Speaker
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00:55:02
Speaker
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