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Tarot, Divination, & The Hero's Journey
25 Plays1 year ago
In this episode Jim and Jenn talk about the Hero’s Journey and how Tarot and other forms of Divination can help in the process. Divination is the process of seeking guidance and there are many ways to do so. We also discuss how to protect yourself and use discernment with these practices.
Welcome to the Brave Journey Within with Jim and Jenn! This show is about the spiritual journey and all of the challenges, healing and expansion along the way. Join us as we bravely explore topics of metaphysics, spirituality, healing, mindfulness, and ascension. We will be sharing our experiences and wisdom, as well as diving deeply into various topics so that you can better understand your own journey. Whether you are just starting out or have been on the spiritual path for many years, this show is a space for you to learn, grow, and be inspired.
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To learn more about Jenn: https://jenn-palmer.com/
Jenn Palmer YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@JennPalmerHealer/
To learn more about Jim and Journey Mindfulness: https://journeymindfulness.com/
Journey Mindfulness YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLu7Bfk-3-ZKmypgRt2OxMw
All information and guidance given on this channel is meant to help empower you and is not to be considered medical or psychological advice. Please seek medical and psychological support as appropriate for your concerns.
#bravejourneywithin #spiritualgrowth #unconditionallove #spiritualjourney #spiritualdevelopment #ascension #mindfulness #awakening #spiritualawakening #natureofreality #greatawakening #herosjourney #divination #tarot #spiritualguidance #darknightofthesoul #transformation #initiation
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Transcript
Introduction to The Brave Journey Within
00:00:01
Speaker
Welcome to the Brave Journey Within with Jim and Jen. This show is about the spiritual journey and all of the challenges, healing, wisdom, and consciousness expansion experienced along the way.
Navigating Life's Storms: Skills and Insights
00:00:13
Speaker
Welcome to another edition of the Brave Journey Within with Jim and Jen. Welcome, Jen. Hey, how you doing, Jim? I'm hanging in there. A sign of the time sometimes, I think. Yeah, no, it's, you know, one of those things where you can
00:00:31
Speaker
very easily find yourself in a hurricane. And they happen to all of us. And sometimes a hurricane comes and then another one comes and it's a very skillful thing to be able to navigate it all.
Understanding the Hero's Journey
00:00:49
Speaker
Oh, so, so important to talk about. But I think that's a great way to start off our conversation today about the hero's journey.
00:01:00
Speaker
And for those who maybe don't know what it is, it's a cycle or a process that you go through to become the hero of your own life and your own circumstances. And there's a whole process involved. And I don't think I want to spend too much time going over it. But if you think about it like there's a circle, it's like this process that you're in.
00:01:22
Speaker
And it starts off at the top. Everything is normal and mundane. And then you get called to an adventure of some kind and you go on this journey and you're like, all right, let's go. It's the promise of something great. And you go on this journey and then trouble starts to occur. And along the way, you get guidance or wisdom and things that help you.
00:01:45
Speaker
But you do get to a point at the lowest part of the circle where it feels like life or death. You just don't know how you're going to succeed. How are you going to do this thing? But then somehow, through all the wisdom and all the guidance and all the transformation, you do transform into that hero. And then you make it to the other side. And then the goal is then to teach it to somebody else.
00:02:11
Speaker
What I love about this, it's your initiation. It's a part of your, it's a part of your ascension. It's who you are.
Collective Awakening and Mini Journeys
00:02:19
Speaker
And I think we go through it collectively in certain ways, like we're going through right now with this awakening that we're all in. Yeah, I think that's a really good thing to point out is that we are collectively in the midst of this.
00:02:32
Speaker
oh so much you know but then it also personally and i've also noticed in my own life where i might have one big hero's journey and then within that one there's like these little hero's journeys there as well so it just kind of feels like it's a it's a journey within a journey sometimes so um i i've been fascinated by this topic for a while but lately i've been really processing it on different levels
00:02:59
Speaker
And we're all going to touch on tarot and divination. Right. And I want to do that because.
00:03:07
Speaker
Well, and actually, it was your suggestion that we do it together. And I love the idea because when we're in that hero's journey, we really do need guidance. We have to reach outside ourselves. We have to become someone different to really make it to the other side of that circle. You know, to really get to the other side of that process. You have to transform. And sometimes we just don't know. We don't know what's next. So we need teachers or guidance to come in and divination or
00:03:36
Speaker
connecting with your guides, intuition, it's all kind of lumped together, but it all helps.
Divination as Guidance on the Journey
00:03:43
Speaker
Sure. And part of like, if you Google, which is what I did, like, how do you explain the hero's journey? We talk about it and we almost intuitively understand it. In some ways, just with all the stories that we've been indoctrinated with, but like just we grow up with.
00:04:04
Speaker
We have the sense of what it is, but in the two halves of the circle, you go from like the normal world into some charts, they call it the unknown world. And I think those tarot or other tools of divination kind of help bring that aspect to life or to give us answers when we're in that part of it, the unknown part of our journey. I think another important thing that
00:04:34
Speaker
we should bring up in this idea of the hero's journey is I've definitely seen people who they get that call. They start on that journey and then something makes them turn back. Usually they start to hit that, that really negative point, uh, where transformation, you know, can take place. Maybe it hasn't taken place yet, but it certainly can.
00:04:59
Speaker
We transform the best under pressure. So that's how we are stretched and we learn how to change because we have no other choice except to turn back or to change.
Transformation and the Risks of Stagnation
00:05:10
Speaker
And that's what that whole journey is about. It's to force you to shift. It's to force you to transform. And if you turn back from it, if you turn away and go backwards,
00:05:22
Speaker
you never get that transformation. Well, you can turn away and refuse it, but eventually it comes back to you. In some form or another, it will. Yeah. Because that's your job here. You're here to transform and to change up and be different and to become a better version of you. But that only happens through a catalyst. Well, one of the things we
00:05:47
Speaker
central theme of my life right the movie the matrix this idea that we're in the simulation and we're waking up but one of the pivotal moments is when neo the character played by Keanu Reeves goes to see the oracle right so if we're talking about divination or tarot like
00:06:07
Speaker
Tarot. He goes to see the Oracle and she tells him, hey, kid, you know, it's just, you're not it.
Humility in Personal Transformation
00:06:15
Speaker
Like, you're not the one. And he hears it and he's like, I knew it. I knew it. And it's exactly what he needs to hear. Right? That, I guess it's something of a refusal, right? Like this, you know, your fear or your doubts confirm like you're not it.
00:06:34
Speaker
but that allows him to then take the next step and take the risk knowing that he's not the one, only to find out that he is. Yeah, you know, but when I saw that, I wondered, she probably told him that really to keep him humble. I think on that hero's journey, sometimes we tend to be a little too
00:06:58
Speaker
Oh, no, I've got this. And then you need to be humbled a bit. I think sometimes that's part of the guidance that we receive is to humble ourselves so that we can navigate through it and be teachable.
Personal Experiences with Divination
00:07:14
Speaker
Well, yeah, right. And it was the right thing to say to him. Yes. But, you know, what made it so
00:07:25
Speaker
great as a, you know, watching the movie is like, you want her to say something different in the middle. Right. I know. I was really let down. I was like, what? He's not the one in me. Like, how is he not the one? The movie's about him. He has to be the one. Right. Right.
00:07:43
Speaker
Well, Jim, what kinds of guidance or divination? Let's really focus more on the divination, since a lot of people know they can connect with their guides, although guidance in connecting and intuitive abilities is considered a part of divination. But what other tools or techniques do you use?
00:08:02
Speaker
You know, I was trying to look back on things. The first time that I ever spoke with a medium, it was in a time of, well, COVID had just started. And there was other things going on in my personal life. And it was that sort of like disillusionment or like low point where you're like, okay, what is happening here? Like, I don't know what to do. So this uncertainty.
00:08:31
Speaker
And when I first talked to the medium, and I was fortunate to talk to legitimate, good mediums, it blew my mind. And at some point after that, I was like, okay, there's just no way that the person could have known all this information. And it was very helpful at that time. And then I bought a Oracle deck. It was an Archangel Oracle deck.
00:09:00
Speaker
And I started to play around with it. And the first time I'm playing around with it, I drew a Archangel Meditron card. And I didn't know much about Meditron or that energy. And then I thought, oh, that's interesting. And just put it back in and reshuffle the deck. And then I drew the card again.
00:09:25
Speaker
And I'm like, that's kind of odd, but could happen. Maybe it's just a coincidence. And so I'm like, it wouldn't happen a third time. So I put it back in, shuffled the deck really well. And sure enough, pull out this card and it's a metatron. And at that point, I actually got kind of freaked out and I put it down. Cause I'm like, well, maybe I'm not supposed to be playing with the Ouija board here.
00:09:50
Speaker
If it's like, this thing is communicating, like it's without a doubt, like three times in a row. So then like, well, who the heck is Archangel Metatron? Yeah. Which I don't even know how I would describe Archangel Metatron. Was he human and then became an angel or? Yeah.
Cultural Perspectives on Divination
00:10:11
Speaker
And he sort of whispers to God or, you know, he's like, they all are.
00:10:17
Speaker
They are our, maybe say intermediary, they are messengers. They go back and forth. They help us in that way. A lot of them, supposedly according to biblical texts and other religious texts, they take the message to God when we pray.
00:10:38
Speaker
So then I, there was like a synchronicity involved with, um, learning about metatrons cube. I'm like, what the heck is a metatrons cube? And then like sacred geometry and the flower of life and the tree of life and the building blocks of the universe and all these things. And it was like, Oh, wow. But then I was actually looking it up in the, in the realm of Tarot, like that, you know,
00:11:07
Speaker
It almost got started as like a parlor kind of game, but not necessarily a game as we think in the sense of Monopoly, but then it was connected to, you know, mysticism or Kabbalah, where you might have something like the Tree of Life and, you know, the Zodiac, the planets, mysticism, you know, the Hebrew alphabet and all these things.
00:11:30
Speaker
Well, I would make a point too. I think a lot of people think this type of thing is just a cultist or something like that. But these techniques and the ways in which people use divination, it's been in every culture throughout time and every single religion. I mean, there's always a way where someone feels like they're connecting to God. I've even known people who will open a Bible and they'll just be like, all right, God, show me what page in a book to look at.
00:12:00
Speaker
Okay, that's what I need to read. That's God talking to me. That's divination. That's what that is. It's bibliomancy. It's a form of divination. And I don't think most people realize that when they're trying to talk to God, they're doing the same thing as people are trying to talk to their guides or to the angels or to the tree.
00:12:22
Speaker
It's the same technique, it's the same tool, and any tool that's used for good can also be used for bad, you know, if you want to look at it that way too.
Creating Sacred Space for Safe Divination
00:12:32
Speaker
So I know some people with certain forms of divination, they have a negative taste in their mouth about it, where they might feel, you know, for example, like the Ouija board, you mentioned that a lot of people I've heard say who use pendulums, and pendulums are a bit more mainstream,
00:12:50
Speaker
They'll divine with a pendulum and they'll use that to read energy or to ask questions or something like that. There's a big, large group of people that use pendulums.
00:13:00
Speaker
And I've heard so many people say they would use a pendulum, but there's no way they would use like an angel board or something like that because you don't know who you're talking to. It's the same thing, but they're both just tools. They're both just different forms of the same thing. And it's only dark or evil if that's what you're calling in in some way. And I've known
00:13:23
Speaker
all kinds of people who do prayer to meditation, to using pendulums, to using angel boards. And some people do it really well and some people get interference. So it really just, it depends on how you're setting up your sacred space and what you're calling in and everything else. Well, we should definitely go back to sacred space. So when I was growing up, I grew up very Catholic.
00:13:51
Speaker
And there was a guy who was an usher at the church and he was like an old football player from Notre Dame. He was like a big, bigger, older guy. And the church that I went to was usually attended to by priests that were Jesuits.
00:14:13
Speaker
And a lot of them taught, you know, in some of the Jesuit schools in DC and whatnot. And, uh, this particular parishioner with Usher, who was a big guy, I think his name was George, but he was a bodyguard for the priest to perform the exorcist.
00:14:32
Speaker
in, well, outside DC, not in DC. That was the basis for the story, for the movie, The Exorcist. And so he told my dad stories about, you know, when the priest would go to eat lunch, the chair would flip over, fall down so the priest could sit. And this was like a big guy, it didn't look like he's scared of anything.
00:14:55
Speaker
And so like hearing those stories growing up on like Ouija boards, Exorcist, no thanks. Yeah, no thanks. Yeah, seriously. Well, I mean, you know, whenever you try to connect even to God, you're opening up a connection, a portal of things. One of the first times I tried to meditate, it was how to talk to God, that that's really what it was.
00:15:21
Speaker
And I was trying to connect with God and go deep into meditation and I feel like I had that connection. It was, I'd never meditated before in my life. And this was a long time ago, I was on a CD. So I put it in my CD player and started listening. And there was a whole prayer in the beginning of trying to help any spirits that were around to
00:15:42
Speaker
to leave and to cross over into the heavenly realm. And it was lovely, but it wasn't strong enough to create a real sacred space. So even though I had the singular mission of talking to God, I had a spirit come in and it really affected me. You know, it changed my whole attitude and everything. And I don't know if I've said this story on here before. I say it a lot because I feel like it's an important lesson. But so this
00:16:11
Speaker
Spirit was with me and I pulled up out of when I came out of my meditation. I didn't talk to God I feel like I couldn't connect so I Got up and I felt irritable about it for some reason and then I look at my dog and I'm like stupid dog I'm like, well, that's weird boy. I'm really irritable, you know, and then I see my husband I'm like stupid husband. I'm like what is going on? you know, so I immediately thought back to the prayer and I said the prayer again and I
00:16:40
Speaker
It was trying to keep me from saying it it was blocking my words, and I forced it through just it was brute force I was going to say that prayer, and I did, and I felt it lift off of my head.
00:16:54
Speaker
What I want to say, you know, we were talking about sacred space and all of this. That's really important. I think anyway, anytime you're trying to connect to something divine or, or if you want to call it God universe, whatever it is, you call that. It's not just having an intention of what you want to talk to. You've got to say, you have to create the boundaries of what you want inside that experience. Um, and it's not just love and light that doesn't do it. It's.
00:17:24
Speaker
A lot of times it needs to be more strongly worded than that. So that's always really important. And I think a lot of times things like, I don't play with a Ouija board necessarily, but I have used an Angel board before. The Ouija board has a different kind of feel, the imagery and everything else. It does feel dark, and I wouldn't use that, honestly. But I have used an Angel board, and it has a very loving vibration about it.
00:17:50
Speaker
Yeah, I was going to say, what is an Angel board? I don't even think I've ever heard of it. It looks very similar to a Ouija board, but it's got, usually it has angels on it. It's meant to be a higher vibe version of that because usually if people are going to use an Angel board, they want to connect with their angels or their guides. It's not
00:18:07
Speaker
loved ones per se or you know some spirit in the house you know which i never would recommend really because that is inviting in something that's really not necessarily meaning your highest good but uh
00:18:22
Speaker
Yeah, but you know people I think in the beginning sometimes people they're just so excited that this stuff is real and that it's not fake and they're so excited to see things like that move on their own, you know, it kind of blows their mind and they're just so excited about it. They don't think to discern and discernment is so important.
00:18:47
Speaker
Yes. So sacred space is creating a sort of safe space, a protected space for you to communicate with the divine. Yeah. And with whatever way you choose to do so. So it could be with the pendulum. It could be through prayer. It could be meditation. It could be an angel board. It could be using runes. And there's so many different types. It could be opening your Bible. You know, when you open your Bible, if you aren't in sacred space,
00:19:17
Speaker
And you're asking God for guidance. Anybody can interfere with that. You could have Joe who passed away five years ago in your home. He passed away down the street and he's in your home. He could be trying to show you what he wants you to see, or he could interfere with the message. So I think people think that they're getting divine wisdom a lot of times when they're not.
Challenges in Maintaining Sacred Spaces
00:19:40
Speaker
because they're not in sacred space. So I'm always a big proponent of just being really clear about what you want in that space and what is or isn't allowed in. And I always say no interference. So staining with intention, you know,
00:19:58
Speaker
that you do not want anything to interfere that is not of some type of high vibration. And even then, sometimes it feels like it's really hard to be in sacred space for whatever reason. And there's different reasons why that could happen. I wasn't necessarily thinking we were going to make this a lot about sacred space, but I think it's important. Sometimes, let's say you have somebody who keeps thinking about you and they have maybe an entity or two with them.
00:20:24
Speaker
As they're thinking about you, the entities come over as well. I've had that happen many times and so it can be complicated if your sacred space isn't good enough or maybe
00:20:40
Speaker
They're in emotional distress, that friend of yours, and they've got these entities with them, and they keep thinking about you, and then you're getting bombarded with energies. And it's just really hard to hold a sacred space sometimes, I have found for me, in those cases. And so I definitely had times when it's harder than others. Other times it's really simple and easy. It just really depends on what's going on.
00:21:04
Speaker
I wouldn't try to connect if you're having a hard time. If you're sensitive enough to understand it and feel it, I would not connect or try to do anything divination-wise if you're not in sacred space.
00:21:18
Speaker
When we're talking about the hero journey though, oftentimes people find themselves in the midst of challenges, you know, so they're maybe not in the best of spaces mentally or emotionally or, you know, whenever when they're kind of looking into these things or, you know, in really like when I was talking about being in a tough time, like looking for like, okay, how do I, like what else is there? Like, how do I, you know, look at like astrology or,
00:21:46
Speaker
You know, a pendulum or some other Tara or anything else, you know, like that's, that's the time that you are, you typically looking at these types of things. Yeah. You know, I.
00:22:00
Speaker
When you're going through the midst of difficulty, it's really hard to get neutral enough to get really good guidance for yourself. It just is. And it could be because you can't hold a sacred space or it could just be that you're so emotionally connected to the outcome that it's just hard to trust what you're getting.
Overcoming Challenges with Faith
00:22:20
Speaker
The guidance that comes in when you're intuitive, a lot of times if we find ourselves biased towards something, we want a certain outcome.
00:22:28
Speaker
it's a lot harder to get really neutral information because you want it so badly to be one way or another. And that's what I find is really helpful to go outside of myself and I just say, all right, God, universe, show me what you need me to know or understand and make it really, really like,
00:22:50
Speaker
right in my face. So I have no way to deny it that this is what the right guidance is. And that often will help. But I would go to like a psychic medium or an intuitive or a teacher of mine of some sort. But I'll kind of get a nudge off feel within that I need to do that I need to reach out to them or something. But sometimes it just comes out of nowhere to you know, when when you're on that hero's journey,
00:23:19
Speaker
and you're in the midst of that initiation, you'll have teachers and people just showing up out of nowhere to give you guidance. And it's just so helpful. Well, yeah, I mean, there's been times where, you know, spirit or family members on the other side have quite vividly made their appearance known and their message known. And I was in a tough spot, you know, like it was like,
00:23:50
Speaker
Hey, we're here. This isn't the end of the road. Let's change our perspective on this. Open up. I think what's interesting too, and I think important for people to understand is when it is one of those really spiritual types of hero's journeys,
00:24:09
Speaker
or even if it's not, but there's always opposing forces, right? So if you're on that journey and you're on the positive path of ascension, as they would put it in the law of one, there's going to be negative forces that try to keep you from accomplishing that hero's journey. But there has to be a villain, there has to be a bad guy, there has to be something that creates resistance in your journey.
00:24:38
Speaker
or else you can't become the hero, you can't transform. Sorry, go ahead. What I was going to say is sometimes the messages get confusing because there's interference and they're trying to throw you off so that they wear you down or it takes longer or whatever because there is an opposing force on that journey.
00:25:03
Speaker
but it's meant to make you stronger. So that's where faith really comes in. And to understand that you are gonna get to the other side. You just don't know how long it's gonna take or what else you're gonna have to endure, but you have to be okay to do that. And it's that faith. Faith in yourself and faith in the universe. Faith in God. Yeah, very strong, strong thing. I was just gonna bring up regards to that.
00:25:32
Speaker
younger monks when they're studying get warned by their teachers like you are unseen courses are going to scare you and intimidate you you're gonna have to be prepared for that you know so like
00:25:49
Speaker
prayer weeds might get ripped off and thrown across the room or it's just something like that. But I remember hearing that story and being like, that is terrifying. Yeah. But they're like, no, it's just, you know, you may find that that happens. And if it does be prepared, you'll be okay. Like, don't worry, but just don't get don't get scared. Well, what are some of the things just because I think some people who are going to be watching this will
00:26:18
Speaker
either be in the midst of the hero's journey and maybe in the really difficult parts or maybe they have been and didn't understand what it was, what they went through in this framework. What are some things that you've been through that you think other people going through things or having gone through things might resonate with?
00:26:43
Speaker
Well, I thought that was interesting, you know, the call to adventure, uh, cause there's risk involved in that, right? When you go out on an adventure, like it's risky, you know, there is, uh, one of my, well, my first past life regression that I did where I was the client was, um, being a notepad and, uh, running a caravan, which was very dangerous, right?
00:27:13
Speaker
Like, so your, your normal daily life had this risk in that, um, and then everything that ensues from it. Um, some things in my life that I can recall, like the refusal is, uh, you know, while my rugby team being asked to become the captain, you know, you're this player.
00:27:33
Speaker
having some success and we really like you to be the captain and me being fearful of that, of having to, you know, police people and take charge, be vocal and really find, you know, that power in the throat chakra area to really kind of command and lead that space where I was far more comfortable, like, listen, man, I'll do whatever, but I don't want to take that leadership type role. I'd rather just lead by example,
00:28:03
Speaker
you know, go that route. So even, you know, this podcast is hard for me, right? Like you probably tell I don't love to hear myself talk. But also, having gone through so many different challenges and things and trying to work through my own stuff and helping other people, like it's like, you know, if you have this information, like the call to adventure really is like,
00:28:28
Speaker
you have this supposed wisdom, why not share it with people? If it could be helpful to even one person, this is all worth it. But it takes courage to start speaking and to really come into your power. So that is maybe a couple of things. A lot of the challenges I think I've had, they weren't like, oh man, this would be great to have this challenge.
Aligning Career with Personal Goals
00:28:55
Speaker
It was like,
00:28:57
Speaker
life kind of body saved you and you're like, all right, well, I guess I better get up. Yeah, yeah, it's not always easy. You know, when we start on that call to adventure, we're always like, no, this is going to be great.
00:29:13
Speaker
Because we have to have that motivation to go on that journey. And then we're suddenly in the depths of the dark night of the soul. And we're like, what were we thinking? But there's really, you know, I mean, I guess sometimes you can turn back, but that's not the point. I don't think we're meant to. We are meant to push through. And that's why, you know, I've always
00:29:39
Speaker
sometimes thinks ping pong in my mind. I'm like, okay, when is it right to push through on something? And when is it right to think that, okay, the universe just must be telling me I'm on the wrong path or something? And I think we've pondered this question on here before, but
00:29:58
Speaker
You know, it just, it's one of those things that that's why I think people turn to divination or meditation or different ways of trying to get some answers because we need help. Well, so, I mean, there was, you know, getting body slammed and like, you know, going through a divorce and all that kind of fun stuff. There was a point where, you know, I was at a job and
00:30:26
Speaker
Eventually I became aware, like my body, like I had this aversion going to work where it was like every fiber in my body was like, dude, like this has got to stop. Like you can't keep doing this. And I ignored it and I ignored it and I ignored it. And eventually.
00:30:47
Speaker
you realize something has to change. Like this is so uncomfortable that you have to change. And then at that time, I really wanted to work closer to home so I could try to kind of be around more for my kids. And I had to take like a demotion almost, right? To make that happen.
00:31:15
Speaker
But that was the next right move. Like that was like, okay, this is going to open up. You have to do this. There's a bit of a sacrifice, but you can do it, right? Like this is getting closer to your goal. It's more in alignment with what you want long-term. And I think a lot of times people.
00:31:34
Speaker
might look at those types of things or that move and be like, well, you can't go back down, right? Well, we consider down in a sense. Um, and so they stay in the job that's killing them. And so, you know, discern and like you said, it was, it was a very personal thing. I always think eventually if you're not making the right move, the universe forces your hand. Yeah. Eventually.
00:32:04
Speaker
Eventually. But also that that tough growth phase, you know, where you're kind of coming up against yourself, and you just don't know what the next right move is. And, or you keep thinking you're making the night the next right move, and then you keep getting pummeled by the universe, you know, and it just feels like that resistance can be so strong. There, but there's nowhere else to go except forward.
00:32:31
Speaker
Right? And it just, sometimes it really is confusing. And, you know, this is not an easy journey. Well, there's a Japanese proverb I really like. I think I've shared it before, but fall down seven times, stand up eight. Oh, yeah. You know, it's like, okay, this didn't work out, despite my best intentions. Like, okay, well, let's go to the drawing board again.
00:33:01
Speaker
Um, or looking towards, you know, Tarot, you know, like, okay, what, what can I do here to get some sense of, um, knowledge or insight from spirit? You know, what, um, does this feel right or not? You know, what's the, uh, like the devil card? Yeah.
00:33:26
Speaker
Well, then see like that immediate reaction that you have, but there's also a polarity to that, right? Yep, there is. And so trying to look at things, we talked about like belief, right? Clarity, like looking at that and like actually digging into yourself, like what does this mean? Right? Cause ultimately throughout any tarot, right? Like
Tarot and Astrology in Personal Growth
00:33:50
Speaker
these cards were created by somebody, but it's your interpretation.
00:33:55
Speaker
of that card in that moment and what's going on with you in your life and your own intuition that really determines what you take away from that reading. Yeah. So, ultimately, I think you're looking outside of yourself, but it makes, I think, to my mind, makes you look inward. I totally agree. Yeah. I mean, I think that's true for any of it.
00:34:19
Speaker
You know, I think I've mentioned multiple times I took a Raymond Grace course on using your pendulum for dowsing. And it was really helpful. I've used pendulums in the past, but I haven't really made it my focus. And this helped make it a little bit of a focus. And wow, it's just really helpful.
00:34:45
Speaker
to help you narrow in. But even when I'm using the pendulum, I'm still feeling the energy. So I can feel, even as I'm using the pendulum, what the answers might be before it shows me on the pendulum. So I can feel it. And I can feel like if I'm asking a yes or no question, and I don't do this all the time, but I do it when I'm doing pendulum healing.
00:35:08
Speaker
a specific thing that I do now with the pendulum for healing things. And so I'll ask questions sometimes to try to narrow in on what I'm trying to work on specifically, and I can feel it. But it's good to have the confirmation with the pendulum itself and the way it swings. So it really helps.
00:35:30
Speaker
There's just so many different tools. I went to a shaman one time and she was using rocks, you know, and she would read the rocks. People read the tea leaves. That's where reading the tea leaves came from.
00:35:43
Speaker
I've had some people tell me they use runes, which is, I've never seen it in a movie or a show. I think in my head it's like chicken bones or something. Yeah, I know. When I was researching this, I did come across some site and it was actually pretty dark and I don't recommend that.
00:36:06
Speaker
They were they were talking about all kinds of crazy things. And I was like, OK, and that will not be something I ever practice. I need to find a different site. But I did find like a really good site that helped me understand the basics and not go into I mean, because it was even talking about invoking certain negative things.
00:36:30
Speaker
Finding something that resonates with you. I actually had a client gifted me a tarot deck that I think it's called the Truthseeker.
00:36:44
Speaker
or light or light speaker. It's like, God, like modern art, you know, like a modern play on the Rider Waite classical tarot deck. Oh, nice. But when I was doing a little bit of research for the show, like that was what set the Rider Waite deck apart and what made it so popular was that the first time, what's her name? I want to say it. Pamela Coleman Smith.
00:37:13
Speaker
It was the illustrations that added like light in sort of context for people. So it sort of democratized the accessibility of this divination tool. So people could see the art and then get a sense of, you know, how they could interpret that for themselves. So it was very fascinating. And now the art, you know, it's just unbelievable. There's so many different oracle decks and, you know, styles of tarot.
00:37:41
Speaker
You know, finding something that appeals to you and, you know, visually is very important if you choose to look into that. Yeah, that's really true. They all do have their own energy about them. Same thing with pendulums and anything else. Yeah. We didn't really talk about astrology, but that... I don't know, would you call that divination, I guess? Well, it was listed in the sites on divination.
00:38:12
Speaker
You know, I think it's, to me that's a little bit different. It's a little bit more of a science. Yeah. I would agree with you despite.
00:38:22
Speaker
Yeah. Some modern critics. But I think that's also helpful because it helps you understand cycles. Sometimes we enter into these cycles where we're really meant to grow a lot so that it also means it's meant to be really challenging. And if you don't understand the cycles that you're in, you might not understand that it's a growth cycle and it's meant to be a challenge.
00:38:48
Speaker
And you might just be wondering, what am I doing wrong? But maybe you're not doing anything wrong. Maybe you're actually just in that cycle and it's meant to shape you into something. And so if you can understand those cycles and how to best navigate through them, like that's amazing. That's a big, big help right there. There's someone that I follow. I don't know their professional background, but very
00:39:16
Speaker
Esoteric mysticism was talking about astrology and how they had thought it was woo nonsense. At some point, something happened and they were like, wait, what? Why is everything that I'm saying so hard to comprehend? Then they learned about mercury retrograde and how that can impact communication distortions.
00:39:42
Speaker
And eventually they did an experiment where they're like, okay, I'm not gonna say anything to anybody, I'm just gonna pay attention to communication. And then eventually, I guess these things happen maybe four times a year. They can now sense it when it's happening without knowing that it's happening, just the energy around them and how communication is happening around them. So being aware of that, which I thought was very interesting.
00:40:10
Speaker
Yeah, it's funny. I remember I tend to be deeply affected by mercury and retrograde. It affects me a lot and I'm a Virgo. So I know it makes it kind of hard sometimes. And I mentioned that to somebody not too long ago and they were like, it only affects you because you believe it affects you. And I was like, Hmm, maybe.
00:40:36
Speaker
So I've been trying to play with it. I don't think I've necessarily surpassed my need for mercury in retrograde with whatever that is, because it still seems to affect me. But yeah, I mean, I think that there's a way, you know, we have different
00:40:53
Speaker
different ways to channel into our experiences. And I don't know, let's say this is like 3D existence and maybe that's where the mercury and retrograde can really get you. I don't know. And this is like where you've overcome it and you're beyond it. And maybe here is like where I'm at, you know? And so I'm not quite here, but I'm here and I haven't quite surpassed it.
00:41:18
Speaker
But I think that you can be, but I think it's not something you can force. I think there's a process to this throughout our experiences in our lives where we can't just get from A to Z. There's a purpose for these things in our lives and in our experience. Sure. It's not better or worse.
00:41:38
Speaker
to kind of clarify just how this person approaches it. It's like, you know, I have to be very, I try to intentionally be more clear with what I'm saying. More, you know, patient with my listening and understanding and just more patience and kindness in general during that period of time, which I think lasts maybe four weeks or so each time it happens. So you can work with all of it, but
00:42:05
Speaker
Yeah, but I do. I tend to have computer issues. We have weird things that happen. Lots of miscommunication, people not understanding the words coming out of my mouth. That tends to happen a lot. Sometimes worse than others. I think it depends on where it's at in the astrology, but it does affect me for sure.
00:42:29
Speaker
Well, um, you know, on your path of the hero journey, obviously that's a big deal to work through all these things and to be aware of as much as you can, you know, especially through the uncertainty overall. Yeah, I think, you know, with everything that we all go through individually and collectively, I feel like we should talk about the collective maybe a little bit too, but sure.
00:42:59
Speaker
It's so easy to give up on that journey. And to realize that there are answers, there is help, you're never alone. And when you're in that dark night of the soul and you aren't sure you're going to make it, just remember that you would not have been given this opportunity for this specific journey if you couldn't make it. And if you weren't very likely to make it,
00:43:24
Speaker
I think we all have what it takes to get there. And sometimes we just need to be reminded of that. It was someone was talking about, you know, when you were born, you know, and you're a little tadpole or you came into existence, it was like a one in four billion fans that was going to be you. So you've overcome incredible odds. That's awesome. You're so lucky to be here. I love that. Like your sheer existence is an absolute miracle.
00:43:54
Speaker
Wow. I love that. Yeah. To put it in context. But yeah, this is a rough time, right? You know, you ask, like, what are some things that help you? And you mentioned The Dark Knight. The movie The Dark Knight by Christopher Nolan. You know, when Batman gets broken, like, literally broken, right? Like, it's back, broken, and he meds.
00:44:24
Speaker
It's daunting to get out of the pit. That's kind of maybe, that's one of my favorite parts ever in a movie, but that's how I, where I go to in my head where I'm like, okay, man, this sucks. Like this is really hard. You know, one of the best psychologists that I ever went to. She was like, you know, Jim, life is very difficult, but it's really freaking hard.
00:44:54
Speaker
know this like you if you accept that then you can start to work through it in a um also on another level right like you're not dwelling on the fact that it's hard like you know it's hard um and then you're willing
Inspiration from Films and Psychological Insights
00:45:10
Speaker
to attack it you know with maybe greater enthusiasm or optimism like okay i know this is not going to be easy but i know that i'm going to get through this going back to kind of what you were talking about with faith right like
00:45:23
Speaker
If you could have an unshakable faith in yourself and where this is all going as a collective, do your part, but know that this is going to be a tough time. Anything you can do to impact someone else, the whole ripple effect, the stronger you are, the more of an influence you're going to have on other people.
00:45:47
Speaker
and then you really can have societal change, but it really does start with you. So you don't have to worry about all these other things that are kind of happening everywhere. They exist, they are happening, but do your part internally to make sure that your edge is sharp. So true. And as you're talking, I think the times that I've experienced
00:46:17
Speaker
either the little mini hero's journeys or in the big hero's journey that I think I'm still kind of on a little bit. I'm kind of coming around to the other side, but I've been through something recently that was just really big. It was a huge initiation. And what I find is the more resistance I have to the journey, to the change, to the path that it's leading me towards, the more frustration I have, the more fear I have,
00:46:47
Speaker
the harder that road seems to be. And you can't have faith and love in the same space as all of those things. So in whatever way you can come back to faith and love and believe in yourself and believe in the process, believe that when you get to that other side, you will be transformed. Wow, I mean, that is so inspiring. And if you could just remind yourself of that every day,
00:47:14
Speaker
you'll get through it so much easier, so much more quickly. Not that it will be easy, but it should be easier because you aren't fighting the process. The concept of surrender to me or flow, you know, like they kind of in some ways go hand in hand for me. You know, one of the things in mindfulness meditation with loving kindness is, you know, may I flow with life?
00:47:39
Speaker
Well part of being in flow is not resisting not fighting it, you know It's just going with the changes that are constantly happening the stresses the challenges and also acknowledging the successes and the winds along the way And hopefully in joy and love Especially for yourself because you know in any journey you're gonna screw things up. You're
Synchronicity and Intuition in Growth
00:48:04
Speaker
not gonna get it, right and At least not every time
00:48:09
Speaker
And I think a lot of times we start losing that faith in ourselves or that love of who we are because relating the circumstances of that dark night of the soul change our viewpoint instead of changing our
00:48:27
Speaker
paradigm. What am I trying to say? It's like it's changing our viewpoint of us, but what it's supposed to be doing is honing you into some other higher version of yourself. And so the process just takes longer, I think, when we don't just open to it.
00:48:47
Speaker
Well, and you're also planting seeds and sometimes you don't see that the fruits of that, what you're creating, you know, in terms of manifesting, um, or like abundance in your life. A lot of times, at least in my, my readings of the tarot is, you know, keep going. Like you're, you're doing the right things. You're on the right path. And a lot of times there's like a validation of that or it's like, okay.
00:49:17
Speaker
Man, it's really hard to keep doing it. Yeah. Well, I want to say one other thing too about this whole thing of the hero's journey and why we need guidance and help sometimes is because the universe never wastes an opportunity. So you aren't on this journey for one reason. There's all these other nested aspects to why you're on that journey.
00:49:39
Speaker
So it could be, you know, I don't know, maybe you're on a journey with a relationship or learning how to love yourself or something more. And within that really like that dark, dark night of the soul, you're learning maybe how to get over addictions or maybe you're clearing up karma from past life. Like there's like all these other things that are happening, especially in that dark night of the soul space.
00:50:06
Speaker
Because that's where the real transformation takes place. You need that. And then you get to the other side, and it's like, oh, OK. And then you've overcome the karma. You've overcome the addiction. You have a great relationship. It's like all these things, right? But it was all nested into one experience. And so the universe likes hitting more than one thing at a time. I will say that the tarot has been very helpful.
00:50:35
Speaker
Well, I've learned it from you, but really it is a useful tool. I've found it to be far more useful than I would have thought, to be honest with you.
00:50:49
Speaker
But there are times in my life, you know, I'm talking about the devil card, you know, and so maybe I'm drinking and I get the devil card. I'm like, Oh, there you go. Be careful with that. Um, you know, but it's timely and you know, you think about like the great psychologist, Carl Jung, like there are synchronicities and weaved into all of these things and there's this constant communication with the other side, whether you want to acknowledge it or not.
00:51:18
Speaker
but it is there, you know, you're not alone and you can ask for help and you can be asked to show, be shown quite vividly, right? Like in your face, like, okay, show it to me, make me believe. Yep, totally. But be careful. Yeah, well discernment, trust in yourself.
00:51:46
Speaker
faith in yourself, faith in God, universe, and keep going. There was a, just came across my attention, a Harvard study where they had these rats in like water. They were drowning rats, which sounds awful. And right when they were about, are you familiar with this?
00:52:10
Speaker
I actually, I just read about this. Go ahead. It's an awesome story. Yeah. Right. I think it was like around the 15 minute mark. You could see like the rats were like, either they gave up and as soon as they gave up after 15 minutes, they rescued the rat. So then the rat has been, it's fine. Okay. Like I'll be rescued. And then I think almost immediately they put the rat back in the water after like a few minutes of rest. And then the rats.
00:52:40
Speaker
having that learning of, okay, I'll be rescued, like treaded water or survive for, I think 60 hours. I think it might've been 80, but it might be 60, but in my mind, I'm thinking 80s, but it was a long time, much more than 15 minutes. Knowing that they would be saved. Yeah. It's just super fascinating,
Pushing Limits and Embracing Self-Love
00:53:00
Speaker
like the power of belief in what, you know, I don't know, I think of like, you know, some of the, I don't know, Navy SEALs I know are just like,
00:53:10
Speaker
Your mind is incredibly powerful. You can do some amazing things. Not everyone, but if you could be like a rat, you could tread water for a really long time. And just when we think we're about to give up, if we just push a little bit further, a lot of times that's when the breakthrough happens. Don't give up. Don't give up. Yeah.
00:53:40
Speaker
That's not easy to do. That takes a lot of grit and courage and being human. Well, and sometimes in that humanness, we get stuck in that space and we feel, and God knows, I know I've been there. At times I have felt so victimized
00:54:07
Speaker
by the experience that you just don't think there's any way you can get to the other side. But that's really not true. So get back into that positive state as best as you can and move through it. Get back to loving yourself and have faith. Yes. I'm trying to think if I have this, I don't have it.
00:54:33
Speaker
Accepting your humanness, your flaws, your, your frailties, you know, the fact that you make mistakes and so do other people. You know, but if you're going to love yourself and you're going to have to learn how to forgive yourself and if you can do that and you have the power to forgive other people too. Yeah, so true. So the hero journey, we're all on our way. We're all in it together.
00:55:04
Speaker
We've got this. I sure hope so, Jen. No. Have some faith, Jim. Well, that's part of the process, right? And all this divination is sometimes we have to remind ourselves that we are in communication with something bigger than ourselves. And that we are going to be okay. You know, absolutely the identity of life all as well. No matter how bad it looks sometimes.
00:55:29
Speaker
Yeah, I know. But we can do it. We've got it. And if anybody needs help, there are people out there that can help you. Call Jen. She's open for business. But yeah, no, there are people out there and don't be afraid to ask for help or to work with somebody. I mean,
00:55:53
Speaker
Even as a therapist, that was like a stigma for me to work through. Like, oh, I don't, I got this. Like, I don't need to work with anybody. And then it was like, dude, how stubborn are you going to be before you realize it? Like, that's not a bad thing. Like, lots of people are the people and if it makes you better and stronger, then why not? You know, have someone give you feedback on things. Absolutely.
00:56:18
Speaker
So don't, uh, I worked with supposedly mostly guys, but just a lot of times I'll be like, you know, don't skip counseling.
Conclusion and Community Engagement
00:56:31
Speaker
Like it's easy to be like, I'm not doing this, but if you do, you know, you'll find yourself kind of flailing sometimes. Um, so be strong and, uh, you know, be accountable and, and don't be afraid to work with somebody.
00:56:48
Speaker
Well, Jen, we're all in this together. We're all on our hero's journey. We talked about tarot and divination in different forms. Is there anything else you think you'd like to add in regards to that? Anything else that people might know? No, but what I would love to see in the comments is
00:57:05
Speaker
if anyone's still listening at this point, because a lot of times people listen to, you know, the beginnings of things, but if somebody's still listening to just comment at the bottom, what have you used to help you through those times? What is your form of divination? Even if it's prayer or something like that, but just put it in there and let us know what you do. Yeah. And what maybe, you know, what miracles that you've seen or messages that you received that have touched you the most.
00:57:32
Speaker
because that would be very helpful for community to hear that. So that would be great. Absolutely. All right. All right. Well, thanks, guys. Thank you, and we'll see you next time. Bye. Bye. We are so grateful that you joined us. Check out the description to learn more about us and also for additional resources to help you on your journey.