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Ep. 4: "Being successful meant I didn't appear to fit the criteria" (Amber's Story)
291 Plays2 years ago
Amber runs a successful design and strategy agency in Melbourne. She began her journey into the neurodivergent world about 5 years ago when her son was diagnosed with ADHD. Amber reflects upon the difficulty of having her experience of ADHD recognised by both peers and professionals due to her perceived 'high functioning' and successful professional life. Her tenacious nature drove her to seek diagnosis despite these barriers. She speaks about the need for greater awareness of the female presentation of ADHD and how validating it is to hear stories of other women with ADHD.
Amber's shares her journey with humour, wit and unapologetic determination.
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Transcript
Introduction and Podcast Overview
00:00:08
Speaker
You are listening to Awaken ADHD, a podcast where people share their ADHD stories, their life before and after diagnosis, their support, strategy, strengths and challenges. Hi, I'm Jade and I'll be your host. I'm a counselor, an ADHD coach and a fellow ADHD-er. So join me as we Awaken ADHD.
00:00:32
Speaker
This podcast is recorded on the lands of the boomerang country and we wish to acknowledge them as a traditional landowners. We recognize first peoples of Australia as the original storytellers of this country and pay respects to elders past, present and emerging.
Guest Introduction: Amber's ADHD Journey Begins
00:00:53
Speaker
I'm here with Amber. She is my sister and fellow ADHD. She's a neurodivergent business owner within the creative industry.
00:01:02
Speaker
She's married with two kids and a stepson. And she's also my partner in crime. Welcome, Amber. Thank you. I love that introduction. All righty, so this is going to be fun because we're pretty used to doing some podcasts together. We are, we are. So this will be fun and playful. And we're pretty familiar now talking about your journey.
00:01:29
Speaker
I guess we'll just kick off with when you first kind of awakened to ADHD within yourself. It was probably a pretty long journey for me. I think it, it started maybe five years before actual diagnosis in considering it. My son was diagnosed with ADHD when he was 14. And so like many people who have neurodivergent children,
00:01:57
Speaker
the research process sort of followed me along a path of seeking and understanding. And it took a long time really to join the dots between his diagnosis and my own. So how many years did you say that was five? Yeah, it was about five years. I think I watched a video at 2 a.m. where I couldn't sleep. Gee, I wonder why you couldn't sleep. And then that sort of planted the seed
00:02:26
Speaker
were as typical or cliche ADHD traits that didn't resonate with me. So I didn't really think that they, I didn't make that connection, but then the more I investigated took a long time really to join the dots. What was some of the things that maybe didn't resonate? Disorganization or the clutter or the messiness, as you know, I- She's giving me eyeballs. So I think she thinks I'm cluttered and messy. I am a bit,
00:02:55
Speaker
obsessive about structure and routine, maybe in hindsight that's actually more about just a way of controlling the chaos as opposed to being a natural state. Right, something closer to the perfectionism or yeah like a bordering on obsessive compulsive arrangement. So I think like many people
00:03:23
Speaker
the cliches around ADHD being, you know, disorganised and hyperactive because, you know, I'm a business owner and I've been running a business for 12 years and I've had a career for 25 years. It's been really successful. I didn't really feel like that was something that was for me. I suppose I didn't really understand what being neurodivergent actually was. So yeah, it took a long time. Yeah. And I'm, and I'm just wondering,
00:03:51
Speaker
You know, even before we get to that journey of diagnosis, I wonder what that was like for you, given how successful you have been and that you don't fit into the norms. I guess that's why you kind of struggled to really identify it within yourself, because the cliche and even how it presented with your son sounds like it was quite different. Yeah, it was. But it, I suppose in my adult self, I didn't really identify.
00:04:21
Speaker
But when I think back to my teenage self or my school self, it does make a lot of sense as to some of the struggles I had, which really sort of manifested in being rebellious and getting lots of detentions and wagging school.
00:04:40
Speaker
Right. Okay. So I might just take us back to the journey of diagnosis and then kind of launch into how it shows up in your life. So what was that journey like
Challenges in ADHD Diagnosis and Support
00:04:53
Speaker
for you? Obviously slow, like you said, but when it really kind of clicked for you that moment, well, I think when it clicked,
00:05:02
Speaker
that I felt quite certain. So obviously I did a lot of online screeners, there's a lot available. And so I had a pretty good idea, but the more research I did, the more that I identified that for women, the experience was very different to all boys and boys identify as men. And so
00:05:24
Speaker
I was already seeing a psychologist for stress management and I asked the question to him and he said, no, you know, he treats adults with ADHD and he didn't feel like I fit the criteria, which was a bit disappointing because we hadn't even done, like we haven't done a screener or anything together. What was that like for you? Because here you've got, you know, a trusted professional who's saying that they see people
00:05:53
Speaker
with ADHD and no, no, that's not you. I think I just thought, well, you're just not the person for me. I need to seek elsewhere. She's tenacious. I'm just moving on. That's fine. That's, that's your belief. Um, I mean, I think in reality, you just wasn't asking the right questions. I love that. Cause I could have scared, I mean, that would have scared me off. Yeah, screw it. I have it in back
00:06:23
Speaker
Um, no, he was confident. Maybe he just didn't have experience with women with ADHD. Um, you didn't fit the mold and didn't fit the mold. Might've just seen the mold. Yeah. And I think in that, you know, I haven't gone public, so to speak with ADHD. But those that I have told, it's always the same response.
00:06:52
Speaker
Uh, and I think your response was the same also. Um, like, what? That doesn't sound like you. What do you mean? How can you be running a business and, um, you know, making lots of competent, adulty decisions and not be a total shit show. And so, yeah, maybe he was just along the same lines. So then you, you moved on.
00:07:19
Speaker
I moved on. Swiped left. Swiped left. Yep. Is it left or right? It's like Tinder experiment. And I really swayed to investigation mode and then quickly understood that getting since lockdown, seeking support in the state of Victoria is damn near impossible. And so there were exceptionally long waiting lists. And so I think I called about 18 psychologists.
00:07:49
Speaker
or emailed and all of them had either their books or just not taking any patients at all. And so, or had like year-long wait lists. So I found an online service, which I was a bit skeptical about. No, so I had also spoken to my GP who was thoroughly unhelpful. And they just suggested some more yoga and beach walks because I had a busy life. And a plan out. Chill out a little bit.
00:08:17
Speaker
And yet you have a diary. And I know I've said this before, but for your audience, this is you, that at one point I thought, like, maybe I'm getting Alzheimer's. And I'm also at like perimenopausal age as well. So that, you know, you sort of throw all those hormonal changes in at the same time. But I honestly thought, yeah, I'm losing my memory. I can't seem to recall anything.
00:08:43
Speaker
everyone just seemed to put it down to sort of stress, which sort of would have made sense, but no one was doing any other inquiry. And it felt very significant to you. It sounds like it was quite scary to think what's happening here. I can't think clearly. I can't recall things. Yeah. I suppose my, I was just continually waiting to have a nervous breakdown. I was just anticipating.
00:09:14
Speaker
that there was only so much stress that I could take. And then seeing the more overloaded I became, the more I thought, oh, I'm just, yeah, I'm going to have a nervous breakdown. I don't even know what a nervous breakdown looks like, but I don't even think we use that term anymore. But you were going to have one anyway. I was going to have one and that was going to involve moving to a private psychiatric facility where I would be served wine and cheese and meals in a quiet room and I would just have a rest.
00:09:43
Speaker
with my archive. I don't think she's been to many psychiatric wards before. And as a mental health practitioner, I have a breakdown fantasy. This is lovely. You can have wine. Laura Ashley, you know, bedspreads. And Nasty can agree. I think that's where Laura Ashley's bedspreads have gone now, actually. Yeah, because they're a bit out of taste. I don't know why, but it's really the
00:10:09
Speaker
Maybe, I don't know, they've got florals for a month of your grandparents and then that feels comforting. Confeting, comforting. Okay. All right. I think she's digressing a little bit here, but if we did, they would have had Lauren actually in sheets. Okay. So you got this online, uh, psychiatric platform. Yes. And I chose to use the GP service through that platform. So they refer you to a GP.
00:10:38
Speaker
The GP calls you and went through a pretty robust, probably a 50 minute call to understand whether they wanted to give you the referral or felt that it was necessary. And then they referred to a psychiatrist, which was another online service. And then from there, I think it was two appointments and some online forms to fill out. And what was that process like for you? Anything?
00:11:09
Speaker
By that point, I was relieved. Box-ticking. Yeah, box-ticking. I mean, the most difficult thing was getting so two other people to fill it out because as an adult, it's very hard for them to make an assessment without multiple people's perspective, as you can imagine. Yeah. And from childhood experience as well. Yeah, from childhood experience. Yeah. And just recalling the childhood experience is difficult enough.
00:11:38
Speaker
There's some things deeply buried. Then we'll just leave them there. And so what difference has this ADHD diagnosis made in your life?
Understanding ADHD's Impact on Life and Relationships
00:11:49
Speaker
I still think it's an avenue to the journey on this. I mean, there was a bit of sadness and mourning in thinking about some of those difficult times and
00:12:03
Speaker
now through the lens of understanding why I would have responded that way or why I might have felt uncomfortable or overwhelmed. You know, you just sort of want to go back and tell yourself, you know, it's okay. So they sort of that little self mourning. And a grieving process there and grieving for that younger version of yourself. And I think that different stages in your life, isn't it? Yeah, right. Yeah.
00:12:33
Speaker
Um, what's the question again? What difference has the diagnosis made in your mind? I think it certainly helped from a relationship and a family perspective to really have someone who, you know, I wouldn't say my husband is deeply immersed in
00:12:55
Speaker
world of neurodivergence. But, you know, he understands now some of the chaotic behaviors and when he might need to sort of say, perhaps you're over-scheduling. Have you thought about the realistic nature of being able to achieve 25 things on Saturday morning before 12 o'clock? So that's been helpful. And then also just probably
00:13:21
Speaker
One of the things I've always struggled with is just self-compassion and kindness, is that I'm always looking forward. I'm never really acknowledging successes or things that I've deemed important. And so actually being able to be kinder to myself has definitely been one of the positive impacts. How are you kinder to yourself when
00:13:50
Speaker
No, really, like I haven't seen it yet. I'm getting this thought. No, you are trying. We are talking. I am trying, yes. I think trying to not schedule. So being conscious that I overschedule things and so trying to undo that or
00:14:13
Speaker
even asking say my husband to say what do you think that's like is that realistic or is this or asking him to check things for me sometimes I will either do things in haste or I've got so many things on the go like so many tabs open in my head that I can probably rush things that might be important because I want to get them off my plate so actually asking him to to proof check it or
00:14:43
Speaker
sense check it, whereas before, I suppose I might have been too proud to say, hey, it's like, can you can you validate this for me or does this actually make sense? I would have just banged it out and moved on and then dealt with the consequences later. Right. So it almost sounds like a new sense of allowing yourself to be vulnerable in a sense to say, this is horrendous language, Jade. Sorry.
00:15:11
Speaker
Sorry, she doesn't do vulnerability. But it sounds like you are, because in the past, like you said, I wouldn't have asked, I wouldn't have checked, I would have, I had it all in control and I just did it. Yes, I think I've got a long way to go, but I'm starting on that journey with definitely recognizing things that I have difficulty with, processing information, for example. Even to sitting in finance meetings, for example,
00:15:40
Speaker
I'm getting, I'd say, a bit more confident in saying, this is how I need the information for me to process it. It's not that I intellectually can't process it, I just can't process it in the same way that other people do. So, for example, when I see a spreadsheet that's black and white with 50 columns, X and Y,
00:16:00
Speaker
with absolutely no color signifiers or way to navigate. I just, my brain just says, don't think you, it's coffee time or it's gin time. I'm done here. It's just boring. And I can't, just can't even read the numbers. So actually just having the courage to say, this is how I need a report or this is how I need a spreadsheet to look in order for me to be able to understand it without being apologetic.
00:16:29
Speaker
Right, that's about cultivating your environment for success, isn't it? Yeah, what she said. Making those changes so that you can thrive because there are environments that don't suit us, that we don't thrive in, that we're not going to succeed in. So once you know, then you can reshape and redesign and be less apologetic about it. Yeah.
00:16:59
Speaker
Whether it's the, you know, for me, it's the lighting or the external noise or distractions. I can now say that's not working for me rather than just building up a century overwhelm or checking out. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.
Coping Mechanisms and Balance Challenges
00:17:15
Speaker
So how else does it show up in your life? Past, present, work, relationships, family, friends? Choose your own adventure, whichever one you'd like.
00:17:27
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I definitely think the understanding that my pace is not everyone else's pace is quite difficult because I do work on supercharge, so rather
00:17:45
Speaker
off or on. So I have a long way to go to try and get some balance into being more off because I'm still more on. And I live in this perpetual fantasy that next week is going to be calmer and clearer in the schedule. But if you keep scheduling, you realise that it won't. But if I keep scheduling, yeah.
00:18:12
Speaker
So then that, I definitely think there's been a really strong focus on, I suppose, taking care of body through, you know, increased exercise and lifestyle and less alcohol. I'm surprised, and I don't say this quickly, but I am surprised that I've never been addicted to alcohol. I've never become an alcoholic because I definitely
00:18:43
Speaker
use it as a crutch when I'm feeling overwhelmed, like a sedation tool. And that's not necessarily to get like blind drunk, but to dampen the senses or the slow things down, you know, be more mellow, it would be
00:19:03
Speaker
The number one thing I would think of when I get stressed, if it's past 12 o'clock, is just give me a gente. And there used to be times in maybe my 30s, where I would have secretly drunk straight alcohol before a meeting to help calm the brain down.
00:19:31
Speaker
Right. Like a shot of vodka. I just need to slow it down. Yeah, because they're so full of adrenaline before a big presentation. And that's sometimes that can be nervous adrenaline, but sometimes that can always be like
00:19:46
Speaker
excitement that then I end up like talking 100 miles an hour and freaking people out looking like a raving lunatic. So there's a fine line between someone who feels, you know, who comes across as passionate, dedicated and competent to, oh my God, like she's high on men. She's a lot. She needs to be cut it out. And, you know, she's a lot. And so, you know, even the idea of trying to keep still and more fidget while you're sitting and
00:20:16
Speaker
I, you know, like now hands under desk, like I'm twisting on my chair, like I do have to really be conscious of sitting still. And when you're in a meeting, that's even more so. And so in a public space, so trying to be trying to listen and then not fidget. It used to be that I looked
00:20:38
Speaker
Yeah. Require some sort of heart licker to try and calm me down. Because I guess that speaks to obviously a coping strategy, but you know, when I think back and compare the two of us, we both masked, but in different ways. I think I, I was still very outwardly fidgety and, and, you know, a lot and loud. And yet you were holding and masking a lot of that.
00:21:09
Speaker
I don't know that people would have said you were as bouncy. Yeah. And I was a bit more surly in general. But you had all that bouncy energy, but you're really restricting yourself. Yes.
ADHD as a Creative Asset and Exploration
00:21:24
Speaker
I thought it was too cool. You were too cool to be bouncy. Too cool for external energy. Yeah. I mean, I was a pretty cynical person growing up.
00:21:36
Speaker
And I'm not sure if that's because I felt like I was different and didn't fit in and therefore mildly resentful of the world. Right. You didn't fit in and then maybe a bit resentful. Like I wasn't a happy-go-lucky kind of gal. No. And it does sound like you were holding a lot. You know, if you're holding that physicality and all of the thoughts and things that are happening and trying to come across as cool and collected.
00:22:07
Speaker
sound exhausting. It is, yeah. Decades of that. Very exhausting. Decades of that. I mean, you were surprised by my admission of self-diagnosis. I was. I was. I didn't see it either, but you know, I was uneducated too. I didn't know much about it. And, you know, when you look between the two of us, I was more hot mess, bouncy, loud.
00:22:36
Speaker
and you seemed to have it together and were more controlled. And now I'm hearing that this control was keeping yourself small and contained. Yes. I often describe it as, well, there's the analogy that you get often in all of the ADHD blogs and
00:23:01
Speaker
books and you know they talk about the incessant motor that you know just got a motor that just keeps going I suppose for some people that motor could be internal and external manifestation for me it was definitely like an internal that was just like thinking thinking thinking thinking thinking thinking even when I'm thinking I'm double thinking or like thinking about five things at once and so I'll just go around this loop of you know at work I might have
00:23:29
Speaker
10 things to do rather than just starting one thing and finishing it and moving to the next. I'd be doing all 10 at once, but over the course of the whole day. And then, you know, you get distracted in between. So my ability to stay on task was really limited. And I think about, you know, what is 47 years of that? That's a pretty tiring way to live. Definitely.
00:23:57
Speaker
And so how are you relating to your ADHD now? I know it's still an emerging journey for you. I'm just looking at it with curiosity. I mean, I would like to do and understand more. I've got a notes on my phone that I keep every time I hear something that's quite interesting. I feel like I just need to prepare a little presentation for myself in PDF that I can have.
00:24:25
Speaker
This is what it means for me. But I think that, you know, that is a good idea, right, to create, create some sort of story. If you want to do a presentation, that's fine. It's got to be pictures, got to have color. It's got to be sparkly. Yeah. And so you're just kind of capturing bits along the way. The more you hear of other people's experiences or the more you read.
00:24:54
Speaker
Yeah, I suppose it feels like a really big project. So the reason I say I haven't quite fully digested or it doesn't feel resolved is like it just seems like such a big thing that has impact over everything that
00:25:12
Speaker
to delve down that rabbit hole just feels like I don't have sufficient time to do that. So I'm sort of just working with surface knowledge, but not really, you know, I haven't taken, you know, an ADHD diagnostic holiday, which I feel like could be a good thing to do. You know, maybe I'm just going to keep procrastinating on that until, but I just, you know, I'm just going to work day to day on, you know, the small things. And as you would know,
00:25:42
Speaker
I don't have, I literally don't have a lot of time in between business and family commitments and then trying to cram in the wellbeing. So I'm working towards, that's the best I can think of. Right of you. So you're conscious, you're aware, and maybe I'll get you on a few more times and we'll unpack different elements. You can be my live coaching client. I mean, one of the things I haven't mentioned, but
00:26:11
Speaker
You know, I've been very conscious or aware of the rise, I suppose, in celebrities or well-known people and their diagnosis. And in some ways, listening to these people, whether it's podcasts or interviews or articles, it's reassuring because you hear them talking in a way that's exactly how you feel or experience that you haven't heard before.
00:26:40
Speaker
And so I find that reassuring, I suppose. It's like, oh, look, there are other people who have hot messes. Well, that think the way you think and have experienced life through a similar lens. And, you know, hearing them describe themselves as, you know, how they describe life as being off or on or, you know, when they are out and social, they love being social, but then when they come home,
00:27:07
Speaker
Like they just want to line their bed in the dark room with their phone and just not completely zone out. And so for me, like if we've got friends or relatives over consecutive days, I find that really difficult because I get no downtime to sort of recharge. I need to recharge. I suppose the knowing now means that I could sort of plan that in or excuse myself without sort of thinking, God, I'm just so on social wall.
00:27:37
Speaker
There's that piece of being kind to yourself. You're recognizing that that is something that, you know, you struggle with, or you're going to become overwhelmed with, or it's just too much, and you give yourself permission to do what you need to do. Yeah, just to recharge. Yeah, that's great. Are there any other strengths or struggles that you want to share? I mean, I've been
00:28:06
Speaker
Pretty lucky. I mean, I work in the creative industry. There's a lot of neurodivergent people in the creative industry. It's just built for creative thinkers across all disciplines. So that sort of makes it easier because I'm not in a highly regulated corporate sort of traditional space. So it is a space where there's an expectation of liberated freedom. So that works for me.
00:28:36
Speaker
Eurodivergent in that space has actually just been a gift. And that's why so many people who are neurodivergent are attracted to creative industries, whether that's music or theater or design or fashion. I definitely think my ability to connect dots as a strategist and working in the creative industry is super helpful because I feel like I can see things much faster than other people.
00:29:08
Speaker
I've done that three hours ago. I saw that coming. So, you know, in those ways, my risk, you know, I am quite brave in taking big risks and being able to back myself. And that's, you know, definitely an ADHD type trait. Thankfully, I've never really taken the risks that involve my life. Not so much. That was my thing. So you were impulsive. I did get into a few cars as like a teenager with
00:29:38
Speaker
adult men driving, they're probably not very safe, but that's another podcast. That's another podcast. But on the whole, your risk taking and impulsive behavior is kind of brave in your business and has gotten you places. So are you saying? Yeah. I mean, I've been, I would say I have been pretty calculated in the risks. It's not just, Oh, this sounds fun. It's shiny. Like I'm just going to jump into that now.
00:30:08
Speaker
I am quite considered still, but yeah, I suppose just backed myself in saying, well, what's, you know, when I started my business, for example, I was a single parent and yes, I had money in the bank, but it was still a big risk going out on their own with no clients and hoping it worked, but I just weighed up what was the worst that was gonna happen.
00:30:36
Speaker
And, you know, sort of jumped right in, but other people thought I'd be crazy. Like, why don't you do that? Just get a safe job. The page is super and why don't you fumble around trying to learn how to do a business? Because I want to get the Doverman hit in the safe. And retrospectively, do you realize that that's, you know, you were going for that. And it's the same when I work on a big project. I know now, like, I just literally can't sense it.
00:31:03
Speaker
I'm just working on the same thing day in day out. Like I just check out. Brain's gone. I actually need the diversity of problems to solve all the time. Right. And that serves you well. Most of the time. As long as you got someone to pick up the tail end of the projects that are boring. Yeah, exactly. You've just got to have a whole team of completers. I want some team of completers. It's just me.
00:31:32
Speaker
All right. Well, is there anything else you would like to share? I can think of.
Invitation for Listener Participation
00:31:38
Speaker
Okay. I think there's a whole host of podcasts that I would like you to, or conversations around ADHD, but I'd love you to join me on down the track. So I would love to have you back. Good. It's been lovely talking to you. Yeah. Thank you. You're welcome. Thanks for having me on. Thanks. Hopefully I'll follow you though. Yeah. Yeah, sort of. You're funny enough.
00:32:02
Speaker
It's okay, I'll keep you. So if you would like to share your story on Awaken ADHD, you can visit me on AwakenADHD.com.au and I would love to hear your story. Until next time. Adios.
00:32:26
Speaker
This podcast is not a licensed mental health provider. It represents the personal opinions and experiences of individuals. No content should be taken as professional advice or recommendation.