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Ep. 2: "I always knew I was different" it was ADHD (Amanda's Story)
318 Plays2 years ago
Amanda always knew she was different, though she kept that to herself. It wasn't until her daughter was diagnosed in grade 2 that she started to join the dots and her 'difference' began to make sense. "It was a very difficult time for me". Now Amanda is a proud neurodivergent individual, and the mother of two fabulous neurodivergent kids. Having been through this journey Amanda is now a passionate advocate for neurodiversity in the workplace and supporting woman on their neurodivergent journey. Her mission is to raise awareness and acceptance of neurodiversity so every amazing and unique brain has the opportunity to thrive. https://thrivingwithneurodiversity.com.au
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Transcript
Introduction to Awaken ADHD
00:00:08
Speaker
You are listening to Awaken ADHD, a podcast where people share their ADHD stories, their life before and after diagnosis, their support, strategy, strengths and challenges. Hi, I'm Jade and I'll be your host. I'm a counselor, an ADHD coach and a fellow ADHD-er. So join me as we Awaken ADHD.
00:00:32
Speaker
This podcast is recorded on the lands of the Poomarung country and we wish to acknowledge them as the traditional landowners. We recognise First Peoples of Australia as the original storytellers of this country and pay our respects to elders past, present and emerging.
Meet Amanda: Advocate for Neurodiversity
00:00:52
Speaker
I'm here today with Amanda, fellow ADHD-er and mother of two neurodivergent children. Amanda is a workplace wellbeing and neurodiversity advocate, a strength development coach and a change manager. So welcome, Amanda. Hello. Hello. Welcome. How are you doing tonight? Yeah, good. Good.
00:01:19
Speaker
A bit mental for a mental day, but you know, all good. All right. So all your executive functions online, that is the question. I've done a third of them. Good, me too. I've started with the cognitive aphasia at this time of night where I'm just miswording things, misnaming things. So we'll see how tonight goes. This will be fun.
00:01:43
Speaker
Well, at least you can name them. I just know that a third of working, what they're doing and what they're called, I'm not sure. This is the evening version of ADHD. Yes. All righty.
Realizing ADHD: Amanda's Story
00:01:57
Speaker
So do you want to share a little bit about when you kind of first awakened ADHD?
00:02:03
Speaker
Yeah, I think most of my life I realized I knew that something was different and I knew that I somehow was different. And through my entire life I never ever voiced that to anybody. It was kind of weird that, you know, even my closest friends, even my husband, I didn't even, I didn't voice it. I just knew that things were a bit different and I wasn't getting it like the rest of the world seemed to get it.
00:02:29
Speaker
Is there anything you can pinpoint or it just felt different? It felt different. I couldn't seem to relate to people, how other people related to people. I couldn't seem to not interrupt when other people, you know.
00:02:50
Speaker
I used to work my butt off at school and study really hard to be a C average, even though I knew I had the brains. I just couldn't, I don't know, there's just a lot of little things that with the ADHD lens in hindsight now makes sense. But at the time, so I'm probably articulating it a little bit better than I would have if someone had asked me when I was like 18. Oh, of course, no doubt. But back to your question.
Understanding ADHD through Daughter's Eyes
00:03:15
Speaker
My daughter
00:03:17
Speaker
And grade two had a wonderful, awesome teacher who came up to us within the first week or two of grade two and went, don't usually say this this early, but...
00:03:26
Speaker
I don't think Poppy's getting things correctly. And she said it could be her hearing, it could be, I'm not sure. She goes, I'm giving her steps and processes and then she'll come back and keep asking. And she just doesn't seem to be getting things. So that started the whole journey of getting eyes tested, hearing tested. And the doctor finally put us in touch with a specialist and she was diagnosed with ADHD.
00:03:51
Speaker
Wow, what was that moment like for your family? Well, at that time I was, you know, with the stereotypes of ADHD as only hyperactive little noisy boys. I didn't even know anything about inattentive ADHD. She's a blend of inattentive and actually she's got all three, which is quite common. But yeah, the inattentive impulsiveness is the strong two with her.
00:04:18
Speaker
And so that just kicked off a good 18 months of heavy duty research. I found it fascinating that what I learned is just like what the brain does and, you know, all this stuff. So you're doing this deep dive into what is ADHD?
00:04:37
Speaker
Hyper focus? Yeah, hyper focus for about six months. It's all I talked about. I did that true. This is my favorite topic. I'm not going to talk about it forever to everyone, whether you're interested or not. Whether you care about it or not, you're going to hear
Personal ADHD Diagnosis: Emotions Unveiled
00:04:55
Speaker
about it. Yes. And then yes, more and more.
00:04:59
Speaker
boxes started to tick and more and more, I started to go, oh, oh, oh. Does I realise that it represented me more and more? And it wasn't a pleasant journey. I didn't like what I was realising because I was a few weeks, what was this? I was 44 at this stage, maybe 45. So I wasn't enjoying the fact that maybe I was finding something that could explain my entire life.
00:05:30
Speaker
Yes. As somebody that was diagnosed at 44, I know that exact feeling. Yes. And I found it really hard. So by the time I actually got to the courage to go to the doctor, I was just a bubbling mess. I wasn't coping. I was very close to which I now recognize as ADHD burnout.
00:05:49
Speaker
I remember I couldn't even, I couldn't talk to my husband about it either and I just used to write in these long emails because every time I tried to talk about it I started crying. So I wasn't in a good space by the time I got diagnosed but the diagnosis happened pretty quickly and this was five years ago for me so I got in pretty quick to what I, to a psychiatrist and a psychologist and you know it wasn't the horrible amounts of waiting that people have right now.
00:06:16
Speaker
And so yeah, went to see a psychiatrist and we chatted for a bit and he was very much of the opinion that, okay, your daughter's got it, what you're describing, I'm pretty sure you've got it. He said, we can do some expensive tests and stuff, but by the looks of it, it looks like you're highly anxious as well. And no one, I had underlying anxiety my entire life, I just didn't realise.
00:06:37
Speaker
retrospectively when you think about that anxiety through your life, how did that play out? What did that look like for you or feel like? It was mainly social anxiety, but I think I had, it was also low line generalized anxiety. It actually helped me because it kept me on time. I was so worried about being late or not being prepared or I used to worry about everything that I actually
00:07:06
Speaker
the one, apart from the fact that it made me feel awful all the time, the one benefit was that it kept me on schedule. Whereas now post-diagnosis and with medication, time blindness is my enemy and I am late for
00:07:20
Speaker
everything. The whole, oh, I've got to leave in 10 minutes. Oh, I can do these five things in front of me. It's that the inability to understand how long things will take to do. And I just think if I just do it fast,
00:07:40
Speaker
Uh, I'm now late for most things, whereas you could be guaranteed I would be like the first person at a party or the first person into a meeting or that, you know, and now I'm regularly going, oops, sorry guys, I'm late again. And I, and I wonder whether also the, you know, there's less anxiety about it now and perhaps, um, more self-worth, less self self-doubt. So it's okay to not be on time for you. I wonder if that's true.
00:08:09
Speaker
Some of it is that, but when it's in a professional environment, I prefer if it didn't happen. That's not great. That was just one of the ADHD traits that I've noticed are a lot stronger now that I'm aware of them and now that I am more comfortable in my skin and just kind of letting it flow.
00:08:28
Speaker
Letting it flow. I love that. And I wonder if we could just go back to that diagnosis and that moment in your life. It sounds like it was pretty tough. Did you go through a grief process?
00:08:44
Speaker
Um, I don't know. Yeah. I described that day as the best day of my life slash the most unsettling day of my life. Um, I should qualify that one as the best days of my life. Of course, children, weddings and that kind of stuff. Yes.
Medication's Transformative Impact
00:09:00
Speaker
In case my family listens to this. Lovely family. Yes.
00:09:03
Speaker
I love them. I was at the stage where the psychiatrist said, look, we can try medication. I went, yes, just just give me something because I just I need to know and I need to get rid of this feeling. And and I was one of the very lucky ones. I think that from day one, the first medication I tried has worked for me really well.
00:09:23
Speaker
That's brilliant. My life literally transformed. There was a bit of the what even the grief, and I did see a psychologist for a few sessions who was amazing, and she just helped me clarify and accept that yes, it is ADHD. Because my brain, I was just like, no, it can't be. No, no, it can't be. The denial. Yeah, the imposter.
00:09:45
Speaker
Yeah, all of it. And a husband who went, but I've been with you for 20 years, I would know. No, you wouldn't, because masking is, you know, was my strength at the time.
00:09:59
Speaker
It is a superpower that they're masking, not always helpful, but it is an awful superpower. What are some of the ways that you masked or what are some of the narrative for you underneath that mask? To be honest with you, I'm still confused by it all because I think I masked for so long.
00:10:21
Speaker
that I'm now confused with what's masking and what's me. And I'm still working through that. That was a heavy one to try and, I guess, unpick and just, I couldn't easily shrug it off. I don't think I have. But for me, it was pretending that everything was normal, whereas internally,
00:10:41
Speaker
My brain was going 50,000 miles a minute, the anxiety, just the physical response to certain things and just it was pretending, going to meetings, pretending I was organised when, you know, no. I became very good at just kind of
00:11:00
Speaker
lying but just pretending I'd done more than I had. It came across as me liking going to bars and stuff when in reality I was the first one to leave because I found them too noisy and boring and just you know just the sensory stuff but also just not my thing but I kept going because all my friends did. Just pretending that you know the environment you're comfortable in an environment when you're not
00:11:27
Speaker
Right. It sounds like you were working incredibly hard. Oh yeah. Yes. Yes. It sounds like exhausting work to be, you know, enjoying an environment that is too stimulating for you, you know, getting that sensory burnout, but not really understanding what it is. So it just translates into a lot of anxiety.
00:11:52
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, and then midnight when everyone else is ready to kick on to the next place, I'd be like, oh my God, I'm knackered, I'm going to bed. I can't do this anymore. I don't know what, what do you people, what do you want?
00:12:04
Speaker
And a lot of mimicking. I didn't tell a lot of people what my passions were and what I liked because I don't know. I don't think I liked being put on the spot. And what have they thought what I liked was crap. So I just tended to like what people around me liked. And, you
Masking and Mimicking: Social Survival
00:12:20
Speaker
know, it was just a lot of doing what I could to fit into that stuff. Even from a little
00:12:25
Speaker
Little Amanda? Definitely. I was more of a follower than a leader. I always found it easier and more comfortable to hang out with the boys because there was, you know, no social nuances or emotional stuff that I missed because they're just, they, especially at primary school and high school, what you see is what you get.
00:12:45
Speaker
You know, there's no games, there's no, you know, I just found it, and I was quite sporty, so I just found it so much easier just to kind of go with that. I did the wonderful thing of my first three months of taking medication, I wrote a diary. Oh, how fabulous.
00:13:01
Speaker
My mind has been blown every single day with the things that I was seeing and experiencing. And just so I was just, I wrote it all down and actually it was really useful because it helped. I shared it with my dad and mum and my husband guy. So just so they could kind of see because
00:13:19
Speaker
Being all internal, you know, they just don't, it's hard for them to get it. So I shared that with them and they found it fascinating. I was like, what? You used to live like this. I think when I, when I shared the kind of little thesis I wrote after I was diagnosed and I shared it with my husband, I don't know, 4,000 words or something. And he, he just, I remember him just walking into my bedroom with this, just this,
00:13:47
Speaker
look in between shock and empathy. And I think you said something like, I think I understand you for the first time ever. I had no idea.
00:13:59
Speaker
It took me a year of analysis and everything to then open up and be open with it with people. But once I started, I just went full. And now I just, you know, I just started to own it and I share it. And I thought, God, both my kids are neurodiverse. If they think I'm hiding it, that's not a good sign. And older friends and some relatives are like,
00:14:19
Speaker
But isn't everyone like that? You know, those, those comments. Yeah, there are. And I, and I have had those comments from many people, you know, even my husband at time. And I think, oh, yes, yes, it's true, especially we do live in a really busy, chaotic world where many of the experiences that you're a divergent person has,
00:14:46
Speaker
lots of other people will get them from time to time too. They just don't have them in a constant way throughout their entire life. Yes, where it impacts your quality. Yes. Exactly. And that's how I explain it to people. And if they changed a few things and took a few things out of their schedule and
00:15:08
Speaker
their life would go back to the way it was before. They can make these really simple adjustments. It's not just a simple adjustment for us. Oh, just get a good diary. You really need to just schedule that. Oh yeah, and have you tried a planner? I have 70 planners in my job.
00:15:30
Speaker
That's right, planners. I change the planner every six months, otherwise, because literally my to-do list and planner, I will change it every six months. I'll go from hard copy to different online ones or whatever, because my brain starts to get bored of what I've got and I stop looking at it. It's not a conscious choice. I just stop looking at my to-do list and then I go, right, it's now time for a new one. The ADHD coaching course they did, they had a fabulous term called re-sparklyse.
00:15:58
Speaker
All right. And I love it as I get that planner and just change the color, change, you know, stickers all over it, whatever it is, I need to also re-sparklyize everything.
00:16:11
Speaker
I'll have a routine. It'll only work for a few weeks or a few months. Change the routine. Yeah. I like that pre-sparklised. Pre-sparklised. Just add glitter. Just add glitter to everything. But then you'll get bored of the glitter. So then you need to go to pastels or something. Yeah. Yes. Oh, definitely. Jeez. So what difference did, you know, this or both of the diagnoses yourself and your daughter make in your family's life?
00:16:41
Speaker
My daughter's diagnosis, it took some people a while to kind of get their head around it. For us, medication works. So I'm quite open about that with people because that is a, you know, it's a personal choice.
00:16:55
Speaker
When we started the medication with Poppy, and we were going back to the pediatrician one month later, and I said, okay, well, you need a question or two for him, okay, because this is about you and blah, blah, blah. And her first question was, can you give me a tablet that lasts all day and doesn't stop at midday? And I went, oh, okay, we've done the right thing.
00:17:17
Speaker
And she just, the difference it made to her in that first year or so, she's now 13 and we've got a whole bunch of other things going on, of course.
Hormonal Influences on ADHD
00:17:27
Speaker
13 year old. Because of course we understand that, you know, the impact that puberty and menopause, you know, hormones. Oh my gosh. Yes hormones. So you put the hormones with a typical 13 year old and then you add in the chemical unbalance because of the ADHD and it's just, the world's a joy.
00:17:45
Speaker
Every day, the world's a joy. Sounds interesting. I have a lot of clients that reflect that when they're premenstrual, that their ADHD medication doesn't seem effective. I have been trying to catalog this myself. No, definitely. Oh, yes. I was one of those people that had
00:18:12
Speaker
evil PMT. Like I was, I just turned nasty. Well, the PNDT is quite, quite common. Yeah. And I, and I also realized now that I was, my dopamine was just being, my dopamine was dropping further than normal. And I was actively looking for arguments to get that dopamine back up. And I would just think of the most weirdest thing to get upset about. And I would gung ho it.
00:18:42
Speaker
Oh my God. So sometimes there wasn't even a reason, but it now all makes so much sense. I went, I know. But now I know, I try, I obviously do my best to avoid that. You know, if I think it's, if I think I'm looking for, you know, I'm wandering around the house looking for someone to argue with, I go, okay, let's find another way to get your dopamine. Let's
00:19:05
Speaker
Yes, yes. So we've got the hormones impacting, so it's quite, it's a lot in the house at
Parenting with ADHD Awareness
00:19:14
Speaker
the moment. It's a lot. It's a lot in the house now. But back to Poppy in grade two.
00:19:18
Speaker
Yeah, no, it was, the teacher she had was amazing. We were very open with Poppy about it and what it meant, even though, you know, it took her a few years to go, and what does ADHD stand for again? So, yeah, no, it has helped her and having her teachers understand, although the level of understanding is, you know, dependent on the teacher, of course, and their experience and knowledge. But it helped us
00:19:48
Speaker
respond to her better because we now knew where the emotional upsets were coming from and why that some of the behavior was happening and all this kind of stuff. It wasn't her just trying to piss us off. It was her unique awesome brain and we just had to try and help her work it all out. So it was definitely labels. I love labels. I know that's a contentious thing for some people but
00:20:14
Speaker
But if it works, it works. And I think that point really, really is so important that here you have a child, like if you imagine us when we were little, you know, 70s, 80s, the story and the narrative was you're lazy, you're stupid, why can't you do that? Just follow instruction, why can't you listen? And so there was a lot of shaming.
00:20:44
Speaker
And you as a parent had that opportunity to change the way you approached her, to understand that narrative because it's very easy to go, why won't you just listen? Oh gosh, yeah. We still do that, but you know. You still do that and then you're like, all right, okay. But you can come back and it's not going to be part of her self-esteem and her self-worth. And we've made it very clear to both the kids now that you have amazing
00:21:11
Speaker
awesome brains and they sometimes look at me and go uh-huh um but I always say look it's not an excuse for behavior you acknowledge it contributes your behavior but you never ever use your neurodiversity as an excuse for having done something bad and assume that's enough
00:21:31
Speaker
There's always personal agency. Yeah, but also they can learn. They can start to recognize, okay, how did I feel before that happened? And it's a very slow process and there's no magic wand. If you can get some of that thinking in early, then by the time they're teenagers and everything else, they're hopefully a bit more in tune with it all. They get to choose, actively choose, what kind of life they want that is gonna be
00:22:01
Speaker
working with them rather than against them. I think that's a really powerful thing. There are certain ways of being in the world and certain careers and certain environments that are destructive for us and harmful and not great. And to be kind to themselves when they do have a major outburst or they've done something that they regret, it's just like, you know, it's okay. It's going to happen. You're never going to be able to fit into whatever the normal definition is.
00:22:30
Speaker
they don't have to sink into the shame spiral like we do. Yeah, which is why I do the whole strengths thing because it's like, oh my god, you tell your kid they've got something which has deficit and disorder in the name. It's just like, really? It is a struggle to frame it in a way that feels affirming without dismissing or diminishing the struggles. But there are strengths.
00:22:56
Speaker
in there as well. Now you're speaking about your son, but I don't think we have the story there. When did that piece of the puzzle fall into place?
Son's Dual Diagnosis: ADHD and Autism
00:23:06
Speaker
We knew there was stuff going on in his brain as well. We just weren't 100% sure what it was. Pre-COVID, so this is probably about four years ago, we put him through some of the assessments and stuff, and he came back with social anxiety disorder and generalized anxiety disorder. He's been carrying around
00:23:22
Speaker
some amazing amounts of anxiety from a very young age because as he got older his little quirks stood out more. What kind of quirks were you noticing? Just his behavior and how he would react to things which would be a bit different to other people and some of the things he does now which is quite obvious stimming and stuff like that. His anxiety and his real real dislike of social activities and team sports and anything where he's very much prefers to do things on his own
00:23:52
Speaker
When everything one of his friends and stuff would be in team sports and whatever and he would try them but the amount of anxiety it caused him to try being a team sport because he hated standing out and he hated people looking at him or talking about him so that all became a bit more obvious and then
00:24:11
Speaker
He'd been seeing the same psych on and off for a few years and she's just lovely. We redid some of the assessments and, yes, came back with the inattentive ADHD very strongly, which we knew about. A level one autism diagnosis as well. So that was a whole new one I now need to start reading about.
00:24:29
Speaker
type of focus, here we come. A lot of effort and a lot of time and a lot of people don't realize that. That it takes a lot of effort, a lot of time. What are some of the ways in which you find that kind of peace or you get to utilize some of your strengths?
Nature's Role in Managing Stress
00:24:49
Speaker
I live on an acre and a half and we have up in um country Victoria and we have lots of animals and veggie patches and for me um one of my strengths our character strengths is an appreciation of nature and beauty and I just need to walk out the back door and see the autumn light on the hills and all that kind of stuff so for me it's
00:25:12
Speaker
just getting out into my space on my own and just filling my spoons back up. We've just been learning about spoons theory. So I'm filling out my spoons again.
00:25:23
Speaker
You're just painting such a picture that I can sense myself there. That is such a, you know, I'm very aligned with that way. I just love it. Absolutely love it. Yeah. I live by the water, as you know. So mine, I've been in the water a lot and for, it's autumn now and I'm still swimming regularly. And that, you know, just that peace and just being out in the quiet. I just want to go alone.
00:25:51
Speaker
Yeah, you've got to find your own things. And I've got to help the kids find their own things too, because they get me started on social media and stuff. But it's about helping them find, you know, what works for them and what helps them regulate and all that kind of stuff as well. So that's an evolving, evolving thing. And I think that's a whole new episode that we can talk about, you know, stepping into those teen years and how that changes.
00:26:21
Speaker
I need to listen to somebody else talk about it and get some notes. So we'll listen. We'll apply. We'll come back. We'll chat. Sounds good. Sounds good. Is there anything else that you'd like to share?
00:26:38
Speaker
part of your journey because I know that we're going to talk again more. We're going to have another episode with you, not just about teens, about your business and about your professional space and how you're launching into that. So you could say a few words to kind of lead in or tease into that.
Coaching Women with Late ADHD Diagnosis
00:26:58
Speaker
I work with
00:27:00
Speaker
Late in life diagnosed ADHD, usually women. And I explain it as there's three steps. The first one is you highly suspect you have it. So you either seek a formal diagnosis or you can't get that, then you move forward with the understanding that you probably do have it. Because if you've done enough reading and stuff, there's no harm in a little bit of self-diagnosis because sometimes a formal diagnosis is out of reach for some people.
00:27:28
Speaker
I agree. And then once you have that diagnosis or that understanding that you're going to move forward, do all of the reading that you can and work out, you know, how does ADHD impact you? Where does it fit into your life? Look back, go through old school reports and just really find those examples of
00:27:50
Speaker
and those aha moments of where it was for you and where it sat for you and because everybody is unique and everybody's experience is unique. So I think it's really important that you spend the time understanding where you fit into the the whole, you know, different traits of ADHD and stuff. So true. So true. It's essential. I mean, oh, I still I mean, I do a lot of reading and podcasts as well. I mixed up between neurodivergent podcasts and my true crime podcast.
00:28:20
Speaker
I still learn things like the other day, I was listening to something about a big trait of ADHD, supposedly is perfectionism. And I was just like, I look at the things around me and stuff. I said no. But then someone explained it in regards to it has to be the perfect
00:28:35
Speaker
time for you to do something. And I went, oh, that makes a lot more sense. So if I want to do something, actually I need to do this first, get that done, everything has to be right before I start the thing I really want to do. Time perfection. That one went, ah, that's, I can see that. It also makes you look back at your history and be, and be kind to yourself.
00:28:56
Speaker
And it makes it also validate a diagnosis, especially if you're a bit skeptical.
Strengths Over Struggles: A New Perspective
00:29:01
Speaker
Like I started going through some of my school reports and stuff, and especially the high school one. And I've actually got this one here because I recently used it in a post and it was year nine. So I've got 14 computer studies and I got an E, right?
00:29:15
Speaker
And the teacher actually wrote, the mark does not reflect her ability, only her lack of diligence. And from year 90, year 12, there was so many similar comments of if she just tried harder, if she didn't do so many mistakes, and I just went, oh my God, I'm just reading the stereotype here. This is just, and it just, it helps. That understanding helps.
00:29:38
Speaker
It does, definitely. And the third one is once you're in that space where you understand how it impacts you and where it's sat in your life and where it sits with you and it's time to flip that negative male driven medical narrative about deficits and disorders and actually find out your strengths because there's a very good chance if you've had undiagnosed ADHD for most of your life
00:30:04
Speaker
those strengths which are there are deeply buried and there is lack of confidence and RSD and all these other things sitting on top of them, pushing them down. Yeah, they haven't had a chance to thrive. It's an environment there. No, no. So, you know, that's a, and I just love that part of it because every awesome, amazing woman with ADHD has a unique brain and a unique story. And yeah, they deserve to thrive. They deserve to realize and
00:30:33
Speaker
recognize their strengths and their purpose and all that kind of stuff. Yes, indeed. That is so wonderful, so wonderful.
Connecting for Support and Coaching
00:30:41
Speaker
And so how can people connect with you? My little business is called Thriving with Neurodiversity, and I am on
00:30:53
Speaker
Instagram and I have a website and I'm on LinkedIn as my name Amanda Riley and I do post a lot about ADHD and strengths and neurodiversity and neurodivergent people and all this kind of stuff on LinkedIn because I find it's an amazing forum for some great discussions.
00:31:13
Speaker
Well, it's been such a pleasure, always a pleasure talking to you, Amanda. Thank you so much for sharing your story and going off on tangents with me, coming back again. I hope in there there was some good things. There was some gold, some absolute gold. I had a wonderful time talking with you, so thank you. I really enjoyed it.
00:31:35
Speaker
And we're going to talk again soon. We will. We will. Please do. Beautiful. If you'd like to hear more fabulous stories like Amanda's, then jump on and subscribe on your favorite podcast platform and reach out to me if you'd like to connect and share your story. Until next time.
00:31:58
Speaker
This podcast is not a licensed mental health provider. It represents the personal opinions and experiences of individuals. No content should be taken as professional advice or recommendation.