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Why Runners Need to Walk More | Dr. Courtney Conley
1 Plays3 seconds ago
What if the secret to running stronger, longer and staying injury-free isn’t another hard workout, but walking?
In this episode of the UK RunChat Podcast, Michelle speaks with Dr. Courtney Conley, foot and gait specialist, founder of Gait Happens, and co-author of Walk: Your Life Depends On It — about why walking could be one of the most powerful tools runners are overlooking.
From foot strength and running longevity to shoe design, recovery and gait mechanics, this conversation is packed with practical advice that could completely change the way you think about movement.
You’ll learn:
- Why runners still need to walk, even if you already train regularly
- How “movement snacks” can improve recovery and reduce injury risk
- What modern running shoes might be doing to your feet
- Why foot strength matters more than most runners realise
- How walking pace affects health, fitness and longevity
- Whether pronation is really something to “fix”
- How to build stronger, healthier feet without giving up running
- Why walking could help you keep running for decades to come
If you’ve ever struggled with niggles, foot pain, recurring injuries or simply want to keep enjoying running as you get older, this episode is full of fascinating insights and simple takeaways you can start using straight away.
🎧 Listen now and discover why walking first might help you run forever.
Here's the link Dr Conley refers to about how foot strength is linked to the pelvic floor: https://youtu.be/Dx9_1CJuSyA?si=Eo7_fdfnW9jibUOB
Follow Dr Courtney on Instagram
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Walking for Runners
00:00:00
UKRunChat
Welcome to the UK Run Chat Podcast with me, Michelle. This is the podcast where we bring you inspiring stories and expert insights to help you enjoy your running. Now, today's episode might sound a little unusual for a running podcast because we're talking about walking. But stay with us because walking is actually the foundation of everything we do as runners really, and it could really help us.
Walking's Impact on Health and Longevity
00:00:26
UKRunChat
My guest today is Dr. Courtney Conley, She's a foot and gait specialist and co-author of a new book, Walk, Your Life Depends on It.
00:00:35
UKRunChat
In the book, she explores how something as simple as walking can have such a powerful impact on our health, our longevity and the way that our bodies move. So in this conversation, we're going to be covering what runners can get out of walking more, why modern shoes don't always match the shape of our feet, how walking and breathing are connected and some simple exercises that runners can do to build stronger, healthier feet.
00:01:00
UKRunChat
So whether you're a runner looking to stay injury free, um or improve your movement or simply keep enjoying the miles for many years to come. This episode will have plenty for you to take away. Welcome to the UK Run Chat podcast, Dr Conley. Thank you so much for joining us today, all the way from the USA.
00:01:19
CC
Yes, thank you so much for having me. I'm in Colorado right now.
Walking as a Biological Necessity
00:01:23
UKRunChat
Yes, lovely. lay So and let's let's just start with why is walking such a powerful form of movement?
00:01:32
CC
You know, i think one of the reasons I was so excited to write this book was i want people to rediscover the lost art of walking and what it does to our bodies, this kind of core biological input that we need as humans, as bipeds. I've i've wanted to broach the topic of walking as this physiological necessity.
00:02:03
CC
When we think of things as how to how do we optimize our health There's certain benchmarks. And I think the obvious ones are, you know, we need to sleep very well.
00:02:15
CC
We need to eat well. We need to breathe well. We need to keep our respiration rates calm. And i think walking needs to be fit into that conversation. It is a, like I said, a core biological input.
00:02:31
CC
that through its repetitive nature
From Foot Pain to Walking Advocacy
00:02:33
CC
and repetitive activity of this low to moderate intensity really stimulates and has an effect on every single system in our body.
00:02:43
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:02:43
CC
And so I think, um you know, I'm a triathlete by trade, I guess, if you will, that's kind of what I was a dancer and then a triathlete. So I did a lot of running in my younger years and foot pain was something that I had battled with.
Sedentary Lifestyle Risks and Walking Benefits
00:03:01
CC
And so that's kind of been the start of this journey of how do i get stronger and more resilient and how do I implement walking into my running routine?
00:03:13
UKRunChat
yeah So what what happens to our bodies if if we stop walking? Because obviously we we live in a society now where we're geared up, we work at desks, we sit down all day, we drive cars to places and we don't really tend to go for a walk much, do we?
00:03:29
UKRunChat
Kind of intentionally.
00:03:29
CC
No.
00:03:30
UKRunChat
So what's the risk, I guess, of of not walking?
00:03:36
CC
When you look at our lifestyles today, you you you brought up some very good points. Time, the convenience, modern day convenience. All of these things have really literally stopped us in our tracks from a walking perspective.
00:03:53
CC
The average person takes about 4,500, 4,700 steps per day, which means there are many of us that are taking much less than that.
00:04:03
UKRunChat
Okay, but that's not a lot actually, is it? No.
00:04:05
CC
No. And you would think, you know, i think when people think that, you know, I go to work and I'm moving around my office or I don't really have a desk job, but I'm still kind of walking around and I'm at home and I never sit down.
00:04:20
CC
You might be surprised at the number of steps that you are getting in or are not getting in. And so, you know, I think that's an important conversation to have is to really take a self-assessment and say, how much are we really moving?
00:04:33
CC
Because, It's that lack of motion, the lack of movement variability that is a problem. And that's why walking is so, I want to like scream it from the mountaintops. It's this underutilized, easily accessible form of activity that we all have at our fingertips that even when done in small doses can have a massive benefit to our health.
00:04:59
UKRunChat
Yeah. So my question to you then is, and and many will be asking this as they're listening now because we have an audience of runners. So many runners who who frequently run maybe, you know, four or five, six times a week might think they already move enough.
00:05:05
CC
Yes.
00:05:12
UKRunChat
So is is
00:05:13
CC
Yes.
Movement Variety and 'Micro Walks'
00:05:14
UKRunChat
walking still important even if you're a regular runner?
00:05:17
CC
I love this conversation. This is one of the reasons why I started researching all of this, being a runner myself. um Let's just break it into an example.
00:05:29
CC
Let's say I go for my run at 6 and I run from six to seven, I get a good five miles in. I have my steps for the day.
00:05:38
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:05:40
CC
So the question is, does that mean I'm good? Did that just excuse me from really any type of movement activity for the rest of the day because I just piled it in in the morning in that one hour? And unfortunately, that answer is that does not excuse you.
00:05:58
CC
um Getting your one hour of work done in the morning, and if I were to go to work and then sit for eight to 10 hours a day, that is still considered a sedentary lifestyle, regardless of that one hour of activity.
00:06:16
CC
So that's the opportunity here that I really think for runners in particular is we can take what I've called these micro walks and it's five minutes.
00:06:26
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:06:27
CC
It's like a movement snack. And you can fit those in throughout your day.
00:06:30
UKRunChat
I love that terminology actually. Yeah.
00:06:35
CC
So that can become a very easy way to grab movement variability throughout the day.
00:06:44
UKRunChat
Yeah, it's it's a great term, that movement snack.
00:06:44
CC
um
00:06:45
UKRunChat
I like it. It it makes it seem easy and appetizing, I guess, to to just go and have a little walking snack.
00:06:50
CC
Yes.
00:06:52
UKRunChat
So five minutes is really enough.
00:06:54
CC
Yeah, I mean, a micro walk is five minutes. In about five minutes, you get about 500 steps. So I think as runners, the conversation doesn't really become step count because we know we're getting our actual steps in.
00:07:07
CC
So it becomes, how do I get more movement activity in throughout the day? And here's the other you know thing to consider is the loads going through our bodies when we're running.
00:07:18
CC
I deal with a lot of people with foot and ankle pain. That's kind of my my passion. When we are putting a lot of miles and a lot of force going through our bodies,
00:07:29
CC
things can happen. We need to be very resilient human beings. And so that walking that's kind of a, in addition to our running allows us to maintain activity with lower loads going through our system running. We put about two to three times our body weight through our system, walking that's one to one and a half times.
00:07:52
CC
So it's an opportunity to still create movement, without putting the amount of loads that occurs with, with a running gate.
00:08:01
UKRunChat
Yeah. And so it's so it's important to keep moving in kind of small, regular doses then rather than just go out for a a single session.
00:08:09
CC
Yes.
00:08:10
UKRunChat
So that's more helpful to our bodies, is it, when we're
Footwear's Role in Foot Health
00:08:13
CC
Yes. And when you look at, um, a walking gate, for example, we call it a mid range range of motion activity. So for example, my ankle.
00:08:13
UKRunChat
constantly moving around?
00:08:28
CC
can move into dorsiflexion, we have ranges 20 degrees, 30 degrees, 35 degrees.
00:08:31
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:08:37
CC
But when you're walking, that ankle, the range of motion in a walking gait is about 10 degrees.
00:08:43
UKRunChat
Okay.
00:08:44
CC
So it's less than end range. So it's one of those activities that we're still getting action into our joints, but we're not taking our joints to end range. So I think that's important, important concept there as well.
00:08:58
UKRunChat
Yeah, okay. So do do you think that we we underestimate walking just because it feels too simple? Like it's something that we we just take for granted, don't we really?
00:09:09
CC
Yes, yes. yeah I wanna like, i think it's so important. It is, um we do take it for granted that it's this underutilized form of activity. If you were to take out, you know,
00:09:24
CC
my runners always say, well, why why walk when I can run? I get it.
00:09:27
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:09:28
CC
you know I lived in that camp until I turned about 40.
00:09:32
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:09:33
CC
And then all of my training had to take on a very different approach. um Instead of putting the miles and miles on my feet, I had to say, wanna run till forever.
00:09:48
CC
There's not a runner that I treat by the way that tells me, I wanna stop running when I'm 50. That's not what I ever hear.
00:09:53
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:09:54
CC
I want to keep running and in an order to do so, you have to respect the physiology of your body. You have to give it what it wants and what it needs as we age in those things look very different. We can actually become the best athlete.
00:10:12
CC
I think as we age, if we do things appropriately.
00:10:18
UKRunChat
Yeah, okay. So I'm intrigued by this because i'm I'm at that kind of stage at the moment where I am mid 40s. And I am finding running is taking a bit more of a toll on its body than on my body than it ever used to. So I'm trying to incorporate more walking and it it is helping. so Is that kind of a natural progression as we age? or Because there'll there'll be runners out there shouting, i don't want i don't want to give up running. I don't want to kind of do extra walking instead of running. it is that kind of a Is that something that's definitely going to happen that we definitely have to default to? Or or is there a happy medium, I guess I'm asking?
00:10:57
CC
I think there's a happy medium. I think there's a happy medium, as long as we can carve time for what the system needs. So what I mean by that is if I want to, if my whole goal is to be able to run, as we age, we know that tissues get put through a lot of load. We have to find time to strength train.
00:11:15
CC
That's ah that's on the list. So if I'm a runner, I'm two days a week, I'm strength training and by strength training, I mean, you know, picking up a weight that's more than five pounds.
00:11:27
CC
So we have to carve in time for that. The other thing is being able to have the conversation of run, walk. I have to talk to my patients. It's okay.
00:11:37
UKRunChat
yeah
00:11:38
CC
Okay. Those are two different, um, inputs. If we think of running as fitness and performance, and then we look at walking as metabolic health in recovery, in this consistent movement that we can do day after day.
00:11:54
CC
then those two conversations, I think, make sense. And we can talk to our runners and be like, just because you're walking doesn't mean you're any less fit.
00:12:04
UKRunChat
yeah yeah yeah that's really reassuring to hear actually yeah
00:12:05
CC
Doesn't mean you're going to, in fact, lose fitness. you know There's plenty of research looking at you know runners who run and walk, and they're able to increase their endurance, their sustainability, because they're treating their bodies a bit differently.
00:12:26
CC
Yeah. And it's, you know, I even looking at races that I've done now versus when I was younger, my, when I've incorporated run, walk, my times really haven't changed. Now I was never a really fast runner, but I'm able to maintain a pace that was really quite similar to when I was consistently running. And I think that's just because I, you know, you're, you're reducing fatigue and you have these different inputs happening and I'm not getting injured.
00:12:56
UKRunChat
Yeah, yeah, yeah, there is that, because that that is a fear that we all have, isn't it, as runners, that something will stop us from doing it.
00:13:00
CC
Yeah.
00:13:04
UKRunChat
um
00:13:04
CC
Yes. And that's, ah you know, like I said, a lot of the complaints I hear from the knee down. And so that's why I'm so passionate about this, because I don't think there's any musculoskeletal diagnosis that you can have.
00:13:22
CC
that will stop you in your tracks more than foot and a foot or ankle diagnosis. You know, you can, if you have low back pain, I'm like, Hey, I can still go for a run.
00:13:28
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:13:33
CC
I might change my pace up. I might go, you know, go on flat terrain or change my terrain. But if your foot hurts, every single step that you take is not, is no longer fun.
00:13:46
CC
And that's, I think that's a very big, big conversation to have, especially in our running population.
00:13:52
UKRunChat
Yeah. So so what what are your tips for preventing that then, for not being at that stage where we're suffering foot pain? Because that's what we hear a lot. And I do have a question from somebody specifically about that that I'll come to later as well. and So what what can we be doing then to to strengthen our feet and ankles?
00:14:11
CC
I think when we talk about, um, running, the conversation is where everybody's pretty clear that we need to strength train.
00:14:18
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:14:19
CC
we We have to be strong if we want to be able to handle the loads of running. I think what we don't hear often is strength training from below the knee.
00:14:30
CC
You're hearing squats and kettlebell swings and lunges and all of these things, which are fantastic and necessary. But when we look at strength training programs, few of them discuss how important it is to strength train below the knee.
00:14:48
CC
When we're running, our feet take on an an incredible amount of load. There are parts of our foot that take on eight, nine, 10, 11 times our body weight. And I think when we when we hear those numbers, it can be kind of frightening. And it's like, well, of course I need an arch support. Of course I need all of these things. And let me tell you, the foot was designed very well to handle these loads when it's strong and when it's mobile.
00:15:21
CC
But unfortunately, and I have my theories on this, most of us do not have strong feet.
00:15:27
UKRunChat
no
00:15:28
CC
And therefore, when we don't have strong feet, the solution is, well, I gotta i gotta put something under this. I need some type of arch arch support.
00:15:39
CC
i need shoes that are gonna like help me run. And I'm not saying that those things are bad because they can be extremely helpful. What I am saying is we need to pay attention to what we're putting on top of them.
00:15:53
CC
If you put a strong foot, a mobile foot, a strong calf onto say your foot orthosis, you're going to have the and conversation.
00:16:05
UKRunChat
yeah
00:16:07
CC
you know And that's where I think we need to, it's not never wear these things or, you know or it's what if we paid attention to the strength from the knee down? And I think we would see a lot of different things happening.
00:16:21
UKRunChat
yeah so there's lots of exercises in your book isn't there about how to strengthen um kind of feet and ankles but i think for me the biggest the biggest kind of epiphany really was oh my goodness it's
00:16:26
CC
Yes.
00:16:34
UKRunChat
There's a lot to do with the shoes that were sold at the moment as runners.
00:16:38
CC
I know, you know, it's when I have these conversations with my patients, the two things I hear from them is are the following.
00:16:39
UKRunChat
but
00:16:46
CC
Wow. That really makes sense.
00:16:47
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:16:48
CC
And you've given me hope because i think when people look at their foot,
00:16:51
UKRunChat
Okay.
00:16:59
CC
if we understood the anatomy of the foot, that the widest part of our feet should be our toes. So if you were to look down at your feet, the widest part of the foot should be the toes, not the ball of the foot, the actual toes.
00:17:18
CC
And there's a reason for that because when we're running or walking, that's where most of our injuries occur at the forefoot, because that's where a lot of the load happens at push off.
00:17:30
CC
So we better have a very strong foot. We better have very strong plantar flexors. calves to be able to handle propulsion.
00:17:42
CC
When you compromise the toe box, for example, you're literally compromising the anatomy of the foot. That's all I want want shoe companies to do is get take like a foot biomechanics 101 course and just say, this is what the foot looks like.
00:18:01
CC
Please make a shoe that respects the anatomy of the foot.
00:18:07
CC
And I think that's very, very important. So when we have the conversation is does a foot need arch support? I can confidently say, no, it doesn't when it's functioning like it should, but you take this big toe and you start messing around with how the alignment is.
00:18:27
CC
You're going to change the forces through the foot. So yes, in this position, in this scenario, I do need some help.
00:18:36
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:18:36
CC
because I'm compromising function.
00:18:38
UKRunChat
Yeah. So really we, it it's possible that we're weakening our feet by wearing shoes that aren't the right shape for us. Yeah.
00:18:46
CC
Yes.
00:18:46
UKRunChat
That's really interesting. I actually, I was reading your book yesterday and I went and got all my shoes out of the cupboard and I was looking at them and thinking, does that fit my feet?
00:18:52
CC
Yeah.
00:18:55
UKRunChat
And actually some of them didn't. So they're going, and it's quite frightening.
00:18:58
CC
Yeah.
00:19:01
CC
it's It is. it is and You know, I know that, like because I have this conversation with a lot of the of lot of the runners in my office. By no means am I saying ditch all of your running shoes and go run barefoot. That is not the conversation we are having here at all.
00:19:21
CC
um Having a shoe spectrum, that's what I want the conversation to be. So what I mean by that is ah when you're walking around your daily life, wear a shoe,
00:19:35
CC
that is less shoe. When you wear a more minimal shoe, there's more loads going through your foot. We know that. So you have more loads going through your bones, through your muscles, through your tendons.
00:19:48
CC
That's not a bad thing. That's an environment where your foot can get stronger. There's plenty of research that talks about.
00:19:52
UKRunChat
Yeah, but strength training, I guess for your feet, isn't it that?
00:19:55
CC
Yes, it's a training environment.
00:19:56
UKRunChat
Yeah. Yeah.
00:19:59
CC
When you go on race day, and everybody else is getting their two to 4% running economy because they're in a super shoe, I'm not saying go put on your barefoot shoe. By all means, wear the super shoe, but pay attention to the body you're putting on the super shoe.
00:20:15
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:20:17
CC
Be as strong and as resilient as you can be. And then I think you really start to benefit from all of this you know footwear that is out there.
00:20:27
CC
But I do not think we can live in a super shoe, train in a super shoe and have that be the environment that we put our foot in all the time.
00:20:37
UKRunChat
Yeah, because that's not going to strengthen our feet.
00:20:40
CC
Correct.
00:20:41
UKRunChat
Yeah. So what what about the cushioning on modern running shoes nowadays? What are your thoughts on that?
00:20:46
CC
I know it's, it's getting, it's getting thicker and cushier and, um, oh, that's a, that's a conversation that, uh, how much time do we have here?
00:20:47
UKRunChat
Some of them are very enormous. Yeah. What's that doing to our feet?
Gait Mechanics and Running Efficiency
00:20:59
CC
Um, My answer to that is you want the least amount of cushion necessary to complete the task. So what I mean by that is our foot has thousands of sensory receptors on the bottoms and it's they're screaming for information because it's that sensory input that tells our bodies how to move, if you will.
00:21:23
CC
It gives us information. It gives us information on how heavy we're striking our foot. It gives us information on where we're striking our foot. um If you were to run barefoot, you're not going to run overstride and land very hot and heavy on your heel because the heel pad would give you information that something isn't right here, that hurts.
00:21:47
UKRunChat
Yeah. Yeah.
00:21:48
CC
So you would adopt more of a grazing of the heel or bring your foot closer to your center of mass. We need those inputs because it helps us.
00:21:57
UKRunChat
yeah
00:22:00
CC
So the more stuff you have between the sole of your foot in the ground, you compromise sensory acuity. ah You compromise that information.
00:22:12
CC
Now there's always a trade-off. If I'm running, a lot of my runners, you know when I first got into this, people were running 5Ks. Nobody runs a 5K anymore. It's like, I guess that's just not a thing.
00:22:24
CC
It's we're gonna run gonna run 100 miles, and that's great.
00:22:26
UKRunChat
ah Yeah.
00:22:30
CC
That's when, okay, we're going to need some protection. You're going to need something underneath the foot. It's okay. You know, but that's where I think training, being able to train in different types of footwear.
00:22:43
CC
Sometimes we want to be able to feel the ground, right? We can work on different gait mechanics. You want to go run a hundred miles? By all means, don't make it harder on yourself. You want to run fast over rocks?
00:22:56
CC
Put some put some cushion underneath there. I would just caution about the excess of it. If you've ever seen, um, you know, a lot of these shoes that are coming out there now, it's, it's kind of scary what you see.
00:23:02
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:23:11
CC
i mean, the foot, when it hits, it's almost like there's not a lot of control there. Um, and a lot of this footwear was designed for runners that run at a certain pace.
00:23:23
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:23:25
CC
And you know there's a difference between a recreational runner and an elite runner.
00:23:29
UKRunChat
Yeah. yeah yeah so
00:23:32
CC
So I think we need to to be careful of some of that.
00:23:35
UKRunChat
Yeah. Okay. So approach with caution. Okay. So you mentioned, you mentioned gait there, and I just want to pick up on running gait because a lot of runners, we we do get hung up on, you mentioned overstriding.
00:23:49
UKRunChat
How important is our gait and should we be getting too worked up about it? Or is it just a case of retraining our our feet with some more minimal shoes?
00:24:01
CC
Yeah, that's such a good question. um You could break apart someone's gait mechanics. I mean, there's so many systems out there. And I think too much information is sometimes it causes some paralysis.
00:24:12
UKRunChat
Yeah, it does. Yeah.
00:24:13
CC
You know, you have these, my runners come in with a 20 page gait analysis. And I'm like, what does this mean? And what clinical information can I grab from it to actually help you Or are we just instilling this like, oh my gosh, I can't believe I'm even running because all these things are wrong. It doesn't have to be that difficult, I don't think.
00:24:35
CC
um If you wanted to keep it simple, that conversation of over striding, you want the foot to land as close to your center of mass. Okay. um Which gets into the foot strike conversation.
00:24:51
CC
Some of my runners will come in and it's almost like a confessional to be like, I know I'm a heel striker. And I'm like, it's okay. Hey, um most people are.
00:25:01
UKRunChat
yeah
00:25:02
CC
All the strike does is change where the load goes.
00:25:06
UKRunChat
yeah
00:25:07
CC
So if you have knee pain and you're over striding and you're hitting heavy with your heel, you're gonna have more ground reaction force go through your knee and your hip and your back.
00:25:19
CC
So if you adopt a midfoot or forefoot strike and you bring that closer to your center of mass, that load still has to go somewhere. It's just gonna go into your foot and ankle.
00:25:28
UKRunChat
yeah
00:25:30
CC
So that gait pattern of having that foot close to our center of mass is we know efficient. That's where the foot and ankle strength comes into play.
00:25:40
UKRunChat
Right. Yeah.
00:25:42
CC
because people are like, oh, that makes sense. I wanna have a fast cadence. I wanna bring my foot close to my center of mass. I'm gonna become a midfoot and forefoot striker. Well, congratulations. I think that's a great idea, but you better have the capacity at the foot and ankle to handle those loads. And those that don't, guess what they have as an option now?
00:26:03
CC
Oh, I'll just get this shoe that'll just do it for me. And then we, we miss the boat. Literally it's something's going to give eventually.
00:26:11
UKRunChat
Yeah, yeah.
00:26:13
CC
You might be able to run really fast for a little bit of a time, but if you're not strengthening your foot and ankle, something's going to give.
00:26:19
UKRunChat
Yeah, so that's the key really, isn't it? So just talk to us little bit about what we would look for if we did want to look for a more functional and minimal shoe then.
00:26:30
UKRunChat
And obviously we don't want to be going all out and going for a 10K run in it straight off, do we?
00:26:35
CC
No.
00:26:36
UKRunChat
We want to train up in it. But what are we looking for?
00:26:39
CC
My kind of, if I were to put these in order, number one would be the wide toe box. You have to respect the anatomy of the foot. There's a very big difference between a wide toe box and a wide shoe.
00:26:55
CC
So the toe box will have the width all the way to where the toes are. Often shoes will say I'm ah a wide shoe. So it'll be a two E or a four E where they'll put the width at the metatarsals or at the ball of the foot, but the toes will still be tapered.
00:27:11
CC
So a wide toe box is very important. ultra running topo athletic, those brands have shoes that respect where the toes sit into the, um, shoe.
00:27:23
UKRunChat
yeah
00:27:24
CC
When you look at heel to toe drop, So that's the amount of height that the heel is into the toe. A lot of the research will put you in that functional footwear as anything six or below.
00:27:37
UKRunChat
yeah okay
00:27:38
CC
a um As far as stack height or cushion, there you know in the book, we've I've taken the liberty to to define the difference between functional and minimal.
00:27:53
CC
They're not the same thing.
00:27:54
UKRunChat
Okay.
00:27:56
CC
A minimal shoe. So when we say the barefoot running community, they have the wide toe box, they have zero drop, which is the foot and the heel, or excuse me, the heel and the toe on the same plane, but they have a very thin and flexible sole.
00:28:03
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:28:11
UKRunChat
Okay.
00:28:12
CC
And typically around 15, 14 millimeters or below that's thin, you know?
00:28:17
UKRunChat
Right. Okay. Yeah. Compared to what we're used to now. Yeah.
00:28:20
CC
ah Oh yeah. And there were some people that love running in that shoe.
00:28:21
UKRunChat
yeah
00:28:25
CC
That shoe is not for everyone to run in.
Strengthening Feet with Minimal Shoes
00:28:29
CC
And you know shame on me if I'm out here going, everybody needs to run in a minimal shoe. That is not what I'm saying by any means. That is ah a difficult environment. And in some cases, when you're running in the mountains, that is just not something that's feasible.
00:28:43
CC
So that's when you can play around with the stack height of the shoe.
00:28:46
UKRunChat
yeah okay
00:28:48
CC
And you know again, i'm i like to lean more towards less is more. So we don't necessarily need 50 millimeters of cushion, 55 millimeters of cushion. I mean, you can have protection and still get your benefit without having too much stuff underneath foot.
00:29:06
CC
underneath the foot
00:29:09
UKRunChat
Yeah, okay. So in terms of just building up time in in more minimal shoes, are we are we talking kind of five, five ten minutes a day?
00:29:23
CC
Here, this is a great conversation to have with the runners, because this is where you can fit in your walking.
00:29:27
UKRunChat
yeah
00:29:29
CC
If you use your walking as your training session for your feet, because Sarah Ridge did some great research looking at if you just walked in minimal footwear, your feet would strengthen.
00:29:29
UKRunChat
Oh, well, there go. Yeah.
00:29:35
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:29:46
CC
So use these little five minute increments as an opportunity to strength train your foot and ankle. Wear your minimal shoe and start with five minutes. See how you do.
00:29:59
CC
Maybe the next day you do two five minute walks with your minimal shoe. And then you still wear your running shoe.
00:30:05
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:30:06
CC
But at least you're getting a different, at least you're getting different inputs into your foot and ankle.
00:30:11
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:30:13
CC
And that's where I think that's a fun conversation for runners because then we can look at walking as actually, We're training too. So we keep everybody on the same page.
00:30:21
UKRunChat
Yeah. no that like So what what will we start to notice when our feet and ankles feel stronger then? what What will change for us?
00:30:31
CC
Well, first of all, you'll start seeing toe splay, which in my office, we get very excited about that.
00:30:36
UKRunChat
Bye.
00:30:36
CC
Um, if you were to lift up all of your toes and spread them, you should be able to see daylight in between each toe because our, the muscles of our foot should be able to splay our toes.
00:30:50
CC
I had a runner in my office last week and she was very excited because she told me she could paint her fourth and fifth toenails now um because her feet, her toes had been so, you know, squeezed together that her fourth, her fourth and fifth toes were curling under the other toes.
00:31:05
UKRunChat
Oh, they've been squished in the shoes. Right.
00:31:11
CC
So once we started strengthening her foot and we put her in different footwear, She was very excited that she can now paint her and see her fourth and fifth toenails. I was excited because now I knew she had better lateral stability of her foot, but you know it was a win-win for everyone.
00:31:27
CC
So you'll be able to see changes within the foot.
00:31:30
UKRunChat
Yeah. Okay.
00:31:31
CC
um And that's important.
00:31:33
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:31:34
CC
You will also notice walking, we are endurance walkers. We should be able to walk for long periods of time. Um, I think if you talk to a lot of, um, people, uh, in the aging population, one of the things they will frequently say to me is, you know, I feel like I just can't push off my foot anymore.
00:31:59
CC
It's kind of hard to, to get momentum or to push off of my foot. Um, and that's a loss of strength. When we talk about, um, what happens as we age, sarcopenia is a thing and you better believe it happens in your foot too.
00:32:15
UKRunChat
Yeah, wow. It's something we never consider, is it, really?
00:32:16
CC
So we lose, no, you lose strength in your feet and you lose power.
00:32:17
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:32:23
CC
And that's a problem.
00:32:26
UKRunChat
Yeah.
Walking Pace and Cognitive Health
00:32:27
CC
um You know, one of my, one of my things I keep reiterating with my patients is, you know, a very big predictor of falls as we age, a risk factor.
00:32:39
CC
is a weakness in our toes.
00:32:42
CC
So, you know, if you were home and you were to stand up and keep your body kind of like a soldier and just, you know, have a wall in front of you and just lean forward and try to get your nose as close to the wall as possible, it's your toes that are stopping you from smacking into the wall.
00:33:02
UKRunChat
wow
00:33:02
CC
So the toes play an important role here from not only forward propulsion, but also longevity and balance. And so those are the things you'll start to notice is that your your feet feel and you start to have strength and your forward propulsion becomes easier.
00:33:22
CC
And that I think is a ah ah much bigger conversation than we just want to continue to run.
00:33:28
UKRunChat
Yeah, wow, it is, isn't it?
00:33:29
CC
we need
00:33:29
UKRunChat
Yeah. I think what struck me from the the early chapters of your book was just how much of an impact just a small amount of walking can have to kind of counteract the the risk of serious illnesses, really, and diseases.
00:33:44
CC
I want to like scream it from the mountaintops.
00:33:46
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:33:46
CC
um If you were to take mental health, for example, the average person, like I said, walks below that 5,000 step marker. That means many of us are walking below.
00:34:02
CC
If you were to walk 5,000 steps consistently a day, you reduce the signs and symptoms of depression. that is That should be on every prescription pad across the globe.
00:34:14
CC
who are treating depression and anxiety, get me to 5,000 steps a day. If you can get someone to 7,000 steps a day, you're reducing the risks of getting depression.
00:34:26
CC
I mean, this is again, easily accessible, underutilized.
00:34:31
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:34:32
CC
And I think when I've had plenty of patients who've been in chronic pain and I talk about this a lot in the book where their step count has been below 3,000 steps a day.
00:34:42
CC
They're not leaving their house much. To be able to say to them, give me five minutes. I want a five minute micro walk. I have to teach them to feel safe in their bodies again, to feel confident in movement. It's a much bigger conversation than just a diagnosis at the foot.
00:35:02
CC
And, you know, we have to treat the person, not the diagnosis.
00:35:07
UKRunChat
yeah
00:35:08
CC
And that's important. We have to listen. And so this intervention that I, you know, I use the word intervention as a, is a treatment, but I it's, it's a necessity. This is a necessity. Walking is a necessity. Um, so that's the depression, you know, anxiety conversation. When you look at, um, cancer risks, 30 minutes of brisk paced walking.
00:35:37
CC
When you look at that 7,000 to 9,000 steps a day, um, 16% lower risk of cancers. I mean, these are, it's, this is information that I think everybody should be well aware of.
00:35:46
UKRunChat
That's incredible.
00:35:53
UKRunChat
Yeah, absolutely. And you touched on pace there. Does pace matter when you're walking?
00:35:58
CC
Um, in our book, we talk about the sixth vital sign. So when you go to the doctor, they take your blood pressure, they take your heart rate, They take these vital signs to determine, hey, are there any red flags here?
00:36:14
CC
Is there something that we need that we need to be looking for? And these two physicians touted walking speed should be the sixth vital sign.
00:36:25
CC
Because when you are watching someone walk, if their cadence is slower, you should be asking yourself, why is that happening? because a slow cadence can be a predictor of cognitive decline up to seven years in advance. That's a very big deal.
00:36:46
CC
Imagine if we said, hey, we wanna work on preventing things like dementia and Alzheimer's, and we can say, hey, watch the speed if someone's walking. And here's what's even more important about that.
00:37:01
CC
You catch it, do you know what the solution is?
00:37:04
UKRunChat
Is it to walk more? I don't know.
00:37:07
CC
Walk faster.
00:37:08
UKRunChat
is it?
00:37:09
CC
And it's, it literally, that that is a cue.
00:37:10
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:37:11
UKRunChat
And that helps.
00:37:11
CC
And I'll tell to my patients, I'm like, you're going to download a metronome on your phone.
00:37:16
CC
It's free. And we're going to start by increasing your cadence by 5%. I want that goal. I want that step count to hit about 135 steps per minute.
00:37:28
CC
That's my magic number. On a treadmill, it would be about 3.5 miles an hour.
00:37:31
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:37:35
CC
Some research that cancer research is four miles an hour. Now, I know I'm talking to a bunch of runners here, but I want you runners to get on your treadmill and walk at 4.0 miles per hour for 30 minutes.
00:37:47
UKRunChat
Do you know, it's tough, isn't it? It's it's a
Backward Walking and Neurological Benefits
00:37:50
UKRunChat
brisk pace. that I actually measured mine yesterday um because I thought i'll I'll just see what it is. And I clocked 120.
00:37:59
UKRunChat
So, yeah, but that's my challenge to try and get walking faster. But it it is it is a challenging pace, that isn't it?
00:38:06
CC
It really is. And it changes your stride. It changes the stride length.
00:38:08
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:38:10
CC
That's the conversation of cadence. And when we're walking, we're grazing the heel. It's this beautiful softness that occurs. And when you pick up your pace, you have less ground contact time and your gait starts to change.
00:38:24
CC
I live in the mountains in Colorado, and I will tell you, um, Try walking around here at a hundred and at about, um I live at about 7,500 feet. um And you try walking 30 minutes at 135 steps per minute, you're getting out of zone two.
00:38:37
UKRunChat
Wow.
00:38:41
UKRunChat
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's a good workout, isn't it?
00:38:43
CC
You know? So i think that's really, should be very intriguing to our runners because we can, even during our runs, if we said, hey, I'm going walk at this pace for a couple minutes.
00:38:57
CC
You're still getting moderate intensity aerobic activity.
00:39:00
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:39:00
CC
You're also taking less load out of your joints. That's like a win-win.
00:39:04
UKRunChat
again
00:39:06
CC
So that pace I think is is a very interesting conversation. And again, one that ah we should be really telling a lot of people about.
00:39:16
CC
Yeah.
00:39:16
UKRunChat
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I'm certainly, yeah, I'm going to take on the challenge of trying to make a walk in a bit quicker.
00:39:21
CC
yeah
00:39:22
UKRunChat
Will that help our running if we're kind of pushing the pace in walking? I know they're different mechanics, aren't they? But will that help us become better at running?
00:39:32
CC
I think it depends on what you're looking at. you know If you have repetitive load injuries and you start implementing walking into your running protocol, then yes, absolutely.
00:39:42
CC
right Because you're you're giving different inputs to the tissues. As far as the skill of running, those are two different gaits. So a walking gait is different than a running gait. One thing I will and touch on here, walking should be a grazing of the heel.
00:39:59
UKRunChat
Yeah, okay.
00:40:00
CC
um That is a different conversation than when we talk about if I'm running, if I'm a midfoot or forefoot striker, you have to graze the heel when you walk because it initiates pronation.
00:40:08
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:40:14
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:40:15
CC
And that's a ah very good shock absorber to our bodies. So again, different biological inputs. We need to have that walking gait for things like different rates of pronation, for example.
00:40:32
UKRunChat
Yeah, yeah. So
00:40:36
UKRunChat
you've mentioned pronation there, and I think that's something that runners also get a little bit excited about in terms of whether they're an overpronator or, you know, are are these special insoles that were kind of sold?
00:40:46
CC
Yes.
00:40:52
UKRunChat
Are they really necessary?
00:40:55
CC
um I think let's talk about pronation first. I have patients that will come in and they will say, I'm a pronator.
00:40:58
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:41:04
CC
I'm a supinator. And I say, congratulations, as you should be.
00:41:05
UKRunChat
Yeah,
00:41:08
UKRunChat
yeah yeah, okay.
00:41:10
CC
The foot is this beautiful sensory organ, if you will, that is designed to adapt to terrains. It has to change shape.
00:41:22
CC
When we think of pronation, when our heel hits the ground, the foot lengthens and the strength of our foot controls this pronation. And then when it lengthens, we can then contract and I can then propel forward.
00:41:37
CC
So pronation is not only necessary, it's one of those movements that I'm constantly actually treating people to find and to control. I don't want to avoid or block pronation.
00:41:52
CC
With that being said, if I can't control it and I can't control how the rate at which my foot is hitting the ground, then things like foot orthoses, those things can be very helpful. But I always say we have to have the and conversation.
00:42:11
CC
If you think or if you are wearing a foot orthotic or a foot orthosis, you have to be strengthening your foot. You have to be strengthening your hip. You have to be strengthening the system that makes contact with that device.
00:42:27
CC
And then it's the end conversation rather than i'm just going to wear this device and think that it's going to work all this magic for me. That's not how it works.
00:42:37
UKRunChat
Yeah, yeah, no, that's that's really helpful. Thank you.
00:42:40
CC
Yeah. Um, things like, um, calf raises, single leg calf raises, being able to single leg hop, all of these, there's so many options that we have to be able to strengthen the foot and ankle. So for those who think that they over pronation is a factor, you have to strengthen your foot.
00:43:02
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:43:02
CC
You have to strengthen your calf and you have to strengthen your hips.
00:43:06
UKRunChat
So so it can be it can be improved. It's just a case of putting the work in first.
00:43:12
CC
Earlier, the better.
00:43:13
UKRunChat
Yeah, yeah, okay. Rao, I do need to ask you about something in your book. And that is the the idea of backwards walking.
00:43:24
UKRunChat
Now, we we we we do hear about the backward running trend as well. So I was intrigued to see that backwards walking is recommended as well. So why is that beneficial and what what does it improve?
00:43:37
CC
It's one of my favorite interventions to keep people active when they have pain.
00:43:42
UKRunChat
Okay.
00:43:43
CC
Um, when you walk backwards, I think, you know, we know the mechanics of it, right? So when you're walking backwards, it's a toe heel. So it's a, it's a different than a forward progression.
00:43:56
CC
So you're getting more quadricep engagement, for example, we know that strong quads are dampeners of shock to the knee. So for people who have knee osteoarthritis, things like walking backwards can be very powerful.
00:44:13
CC
because we're working on different neurological inputs. We're engaging the quadriceps, for example. But the other thing, and I don't think there's as much talk about this, is the visual field of what's happening.
00:44:27
UKRunChat
Okay. okay
00:44:29
CC
We now start walking backwards and we have a different visual perception rather than moving forward. And I think that's important. Just like we would train movement variability, we want to train visual variability.
00:44:42
CC
So things like that can start to change those neurological inputs as well. And then the other thing is, um i think there's a very good place for neurological distraction.
00:44:58
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:44:59
CC
So when I have patients that they start walking and they know their pain, they have knee pain or they have pain moving forward, simply saying, okay, we're going to stop. You're going to start going backwards.
00:45:12
CC
It's a, it's a distraction. It's a neurological distraction. And I think that can be very important to keep the
Recovery and Lifelong Running
00:45:20
CC
momentum of movement. So even when people are walking outside or they're running and they start to experience pain or some type of signal, it doesn't mean stopping your tracks.
00:45:31
CC
It just means pain is is a normal human experience. And so if we can reframe it and say, all right, well, I'm still going to keep moving, but I'm just going to switch my inputs. I'm just going to start walking backwards.
00:45:44
CC
We can calm the nervous system down. We get into more of that parasympathetic calm state that we're all after, right?
00:45:52
UKRunChat
Yeah. Yeah. That's why we run. Yes.
00:45:54
CC
And then we can just start moving forward again.
00:45:57
UKRunChat
Yeah. Okay. Oh, so it's an actual tool to help your brain as well. That's fascinating.
00:46:03
CC
Oh, yeah.
00:46:04
UKRunChat
Yeah. So, so is that something that runners could add into training maybe on a treadmill or would that be helpful?
00:46:12
CC
I think the, the break of running in that forward progression to stop and walk backwards, stop and change up these inputs can be very helpful, very helpful.
00:46:26
UKRunChat
Yeah. Oh, that's interesting. So for runners who want to still be running then into their 80s, what habits really matter then?
00:46:39
CC
I would, if I, this is like, if someone was asking this myself, because I want to be able to continue to run for, you know, it's good. I love it. Um, we have to be able to respect what happens to our bodies.
00:46:54
CC
And that means taking note of our systems need loads. So we need to be strong. We need to respect recovery. That's when the magic happens.
00:47:05
CC
is in the recovery. these are That was a hard conversation for me to accept until probably my mid forties.
00:47:10
UKRunChat
Yes.
00:47:12
CC
And I was like, oh, there's something to this recovery. um And that's when I really started to have this love affair with walking because I'm like, this is, I can still get my yaya's out. I can get out there. I can still walk. It's actually facilitating my running. I have less load going through my tissues. And I have noticed that my running does get easier.
00:47:34
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:47:35
CC
And I think that's an important thing to for us runners to really consider is it doesn't have to be this pound the pavement. There is a very sweet spot of running and walking and strength.
00:47:49
CC
And I think we all have the capability of actually becoming better athletes as we age.
00:47:55
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:47:55
CC
it's just Our training will just look a little bit different.
00:47:58
UKRunChat
Yeah. And walking is, of course, a great way to recover as active recovery, isn't it as well?
00:48:02
CC
Yeah. Yes.
00:48:04
UKRunChat
Yeah. As long as we're not trying to hit out that four mile an hour pace.
00:48:04
CC
And pay attention your, that's right. That's right. And obviously pay attention to your foot and ankle strength. That's my, I really want to, you know, get as many people to understand that as possible because I see some, um, you know, kind of some heartbreaking cases.
00:48:13
UKRunChat
Yes. Yeah.
00:48:25
UKRunChat
Yeah. Yeah.
00:48:26
CC
And when you can't, we all as runners know what happens, how we feel when we can't run. You know, it is not a good feeling.
00:48:37
CC
There's a reason we all run. And imagine if you were to take that to one step and say, well, what if I couldn't walk? Because I had pain or, you know, so that that bring it really you can start to see how that would have this cyclical effect. And it's a it becomes a very, very a bigger conversation.
Quality Movement vs. Step Count
00:49:00
CC
So, you know, I think we have to think about those things. And really, i think walking is truly the panacea of medicine for no matter what you are battling, whether physical, mental, or emotional, there is a place for you to pay attention to a walking gate, walking steps in your life for sure.
00:49:21
UKRunChat
Yeah, absolutely. it's It's definitely got me thinking about how much I walk and making me want to kind of do a bit more, really.
00:49:29
UKRunChat
and are Are there any common myths that you'd like to bust during this this episode about walking?
00:49:29
CC
Yeah.
00:49:35
CC
You know, I think the biggest one that people talk about is the 10,000 step myth, which is actually, you know, that was a no science backed research on that run that was actually designed by a Japanese marketing campaign.
00:49:39
UKRunChat
Yes.
00:49:47
CC
um They developed a pedometer and it was actually called the Manpo K that means 10,000 step meter. So that was where that whole thing came from. And it's really interesting because if you Google how many steps, there's still a lot of a lot of respectable resources that's saying that's the number. The other thing to consider is there is a law of diminishing returns with steps.
00:50:13
CC
So for example, anything, when we look at where am I going to get the maximum health benefit? You're looking in between that five to 9,000 step range, the five to 7,000 step, you get some significant health benefits there.
00:50:29
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:50:29
CC
When you get over the 10,000 marker, there is this law of diminishing return. So in other words, you're going to reach what you need to reach.
00:50:40
CC
Anything in that is excess. Um, so I'll have this conversation with my, some of my patients who'll say, well, I'm, I'm getting 16, 17,000 steps a day.
00:50:51
CC
I say, that's great. Well, are you strength training? And they'll say, well, no, I don't have any time because I'm getting 17,000 steps a day And that's when I love having the conversation.
00:51:03
UKRunChat
yeah
00:51:03
CC
Well, let's do this.
00:51:05
CC
Let's cut you down to nine or 10,000 steps a day. You're still going to reap the benefits ah for your health. And then
Listener Inquiries: Ankle Stiffness and Hypermobility
00:51:13
CC
we're going to open up some time for you during the week to strength train, to pick up running if you want, to open up the doors for other types of activities that that's outside of just getting these this maximum step count.
00:51:17
UKRunChat
yeah
00:51:30
CC
And I love that conversation because I think that movement variability is so, so important.
00:51:36
UKRunChat
Yeah, yeah. And there's always room for improvement, isn't there? Yeah. Yeah, because because I was thinking I generally do, because I have a dog as well, as well as run.
00:51:44
CC
Yeah.
00:51:45
UKRunChat
and So I'm generally usually on about 15,000 to 20,000 steps a day. So I was thinking, work where can I improve? But I've realised that i'm not I'm not walking nowhere near quick enough as what you're recommending we should be walking. So ah ah instantly there, I've got, right, I can try and improve that.
00:52:03
CC
Yes, that would be, so in the book, we have three different programs built in.
00:52:04
UKRunChat
Yeah. Yeah.
00:52:08
CC
So there's a base program, there's a build program, and there's a boost program. So because I think that everyone on this planet can benefit from learning about this topic, if you were sitting below, say, 2,500 steps, you have a program that can talk about Hey, we need to start at baseline here.
00:52:31
CC
In baseline, is that's a good word. There shouldn't be a negative tone to that because that means you were going up from there.
00:52:37
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:52:38
CC
So it gives you resources on how to do that slowly. Then when you get into build, these are the people that are hitting about 5,000 steps a day.
00:52:50
CC
How do we build? How do we make, how do we just get a eke a couple more thousand steps Maybe we add in some strength training, for example. When you get into the boost program, and this is where someone like yourself would sit, now it's, how do I how do i spice things up?
00:53:06
CC
And a lot of that can be, for example, gait speed, walking gait speed, adding some power training to your walks.
00:53:09
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:53:14
CC
I love that. Like adding in thinking about walking as power. We lose power faster than we lose strength.
00:53:19
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:53:23
CC
and that's it for runners, that's not what we want to be doing.
00:53:25
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:53:27
CC
So that's also the conversation of how can I boost what I'm already doing and maximize what I'm doing?
00:53:34
UKRunChat
yeah yeah and i was Yeah, that's really interesting. Thank you. I do have a couple of questions from our listeners for you, if that's okay.
00:53:41
CC
Sure.
00:53:41
UKRunChat
and so So Rachel asked, now she she's been having some issues with her and ankles with kind of stiff Achilles. And she she's asking how how to not get stiff because she does a standing up all day job.
00:53:57
UKRunChat
What would you recommend for Rachel? she's she's She's a regular runner, but has a standing up all day job.
00:54:03
CC
Um, my first kind of question to her would be, what is she doing to improve stability and strength at the foot and the ankle? Um, I would encourage having her foot on the ground though that first five minutes of input.
00:54:19
CC
So barefoot on the ground, get your foot to feel the ground. If she's not implementing some type of foot strength work, calf raise work, that is all very important to stabilize the ankle.
00:54:34
CC
Something that we think about with ankles, I think when most of us think of our ankle motion, we think of this kind of forward propulsion.
00:54:43
UKRunChat
yes
00:54:45
CC
One of the beautiful things that the foot and ankle do is they also go into inversion and or eversion, which is kind of this, you know, back and forth motion side to side.
00:54:56
CC
Don't be afraid to train into those planes. So you could put your foot on a slant board, for example, and do a calf raise on a slant board. Now for someone who has ankle instability, they might be going, oh gosh, that sounds frightening.
00:55:12
UKRunChat
yeah
00:55:13
CC
And my answer to them is, well, you know, what's more frightening when you go outside and you're running on a trail and you step on a rock and your foot's going to go into that position anyway.
00:55:23
UKRunChat
Yeah, yeah.
00:55:23
CC
So why not train it to see it? Train the ankle. to be strong in all of these different positions so that you create resiliency.
00:55:35
UKRunChat
Yeah, OK. Yeah, thank you. and We have a question from Catherine. Now, she says she's she's she calls herself um a special hypermobile person.
00:55:47
UKRunChat
and So she's asked for suggestions for strengthening and protection. She says her hypermobility is mainly in her lower half, so her ankles and her toes bend and flex more than they should.
00:55:58
UKRunChat
Any advice for people like Catherine?
00:56:00
CC
Yeah, I see a lot of hypermobility.
00:56:04
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:56:05
CC
this I'm going to talk about two different kind of ah ways to go about this. And it's going to be from the top down and the bottom up. So the bottom up, I think, for hypermobility patients is I like them to be able to, again, feel the ground. I love isometric contractions.
00:56:24
CC
So in other words, if you were to do calf raise, you would hold that position.
00:56:31
UKRunChat
Right.
00:56:31
CC
Okay. um It develops control. um The other thing for my hypermobility is co-contractions. So the way I like to kind of teach this is if I was going to go up to a dartboard and I was going to want to hit the bullseye, when i bring my arm up, everything is contracting, right? Because I want so i went precision.
00:56:58
CC
I want to hit that bullseye. So it reduces what we call kinematic error or joint error co-contractions. So for my hypermobility patients, I'll have them do co-contraction exercises that might look like, for example, having their foot on the wall and just contracting tissue as they try to drag their heel down.
00:57:19
UKRunChat
Right.
00:57:19
CC
So things like where I'm contracting or creating the stiffness in the lower leg, um from the top down, I think that there is a very, very big correlation, and this is going to open up a whole can of worms. So we might have to do a round two here of the relationship between the pelvic floor and the feet.
00:57:44
CC
Okay. Um, our pelvic floor and our hip musculature, I think are paramount in what's happening at our feet.
00:57:56
UKRunChat
Wow.
00:57:57
CC
Um, I am always working with my hypermobility and really with all patients on how to be able to breathe and how to be able to relax their pelvic floor and how to be able to control their pelvic floor musculature so that they can thus engage their hip musculature, which can then help their foot.
00:58:19
UKRunChat
Wow. Yeah, everything's connected. Wow.
00:58:21
CC
Yes. And this is a very big conversation for our runners and our females that have incontinence and pelvic floor issues because I was one of them. And I'm like, I'm not going to stop running because I'm going to figure out why this is happening.
00:58:37
CC
And so that opened up this whole kind of can of worms for me. And I'm very happy to be on the other side of that. But breath work is very important for hypermobility patients, being able to control the pelvic floor,
00:58:52
UKRunChat
Okay, wow, so where where might somebody find more information about that then?
00:58:56
CC
Um, so on our YouTube page and on our Instagram account, um, especially on our YouTube page, we have, um, information and kind of a whole little series on breath work, um, how to move your pelvic floor, the relationship that pelvic floor has on your feet.
00:59:03
UKRunChat
Yeah, okay.
00:59:16
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:59:16
CC
Um, so that's a good resource. Um, we have free exercise videos and all things to educate there. But yeah, that's, that that's a good place to start.
00:59:27
UKRunChat
Yeah, wow, mind blown. Yes, totally.
00:59:30
CC
Yeah. It's, um you know, you know, it's, this is just one more point, because I think it's very cool. When you see people that have very stiff feet, you know, they'll say, I'm a high arched foot. Okay.
00:59:44
CC
And their feet look like they're gripping the ground. I really think that that is a a response, a nervous system response to a system that is in fight or flight, that they're in this high sympathetic tone and the feet are reacting.
00:59:58
CC
The feet are going, okay, I'm just doing what you're telling me to do, which is try to stabilize you.
00:59:58
UKRunChat
Yeah.
01:00:04
CC
And so that's where I think a lot of this pelvic floor and breath work plays a very, very big role in what you see at the foot.
Walking as Foundational Health Medicine
01:00:12
UKRunChat
yeah Wow, thank you.
01:00:16
UKRunChat
and So it's it's been wonderful talking to you.
01:00:16
CC
Yeah.
01:00:16
CC
but
01:00:19
UKRunChat
Thank you very much. Yeah, we've we've covered some topics there, haven't we?
01:00:21
CC
You're very welcome.
01:00:24
UKRunChat
So what one message would you like to leave people with about walking?
01:00:32
CC
hope that we can really take advantage of this lost art of something that is the panacea of medicine, whether you are, um, physical, mental, or emotional challenges that this is this is an answer for so many, um,
01:00:52
CC
metabolic diagnoses and mental diagnoses and emotional diagnoses that we have something that's so easily accessible that we can literally get benefit from walking out of our front door for five minutes.
01:01:04
CC
It's that easy of a conversation. There's so many things out there. We need to do this and we need to eat this amount of protein and we got to do all this stuff. And I just want to, I hope that walking is on the top of that list because it is the foundation for everything else. And if there's a way to let your foot feel the ground to gather some essential neurological inputs, I think that is is kind of icing on the cake there.
01:01:31
UKRunChat
Fantastic. Thank you so much.
01:01:34
CC
Thank you.
01:01:34
UKRunChat
and Yes. So your new book, Walk Your Life Depends on It, it's out on the 5th of May and I believe it's already out on pre-order, isn't it?
01:01:44
CC
Yes, yes.
01:01:45
UKRunChat
Yeah. So, yeah, I think it's a really helpful reminder that sometimes the simplest forms of movement can have the biggest impact on our health. So if you enjoyed this conversation, please let us know. and We always love hearing your feedback. And if if you're changing anything and incorporating more walking or maybe even a little backwards walking, and do let us know. And if you found this episode helpful, then please do share it with a friend. A huge thank you to Dr. Courtney Connolly for joining us and sharing her insights from the book today. and You've been listening to the UK Run Chat podcast. Until next time, and don't forget to pay attention to walking as well as running.