Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Paul Tonkinson: Running Through Sand, Ageing & Why We Need To Do Hard Things
1 Plays3 seconds ago
This week on the UKRunChat Podcast, we’re joined by comedian, writer and runner Paul Tonkinson.
Paul’s new book, Running Through Sand, follows his attempt to complete the legendary Marathon des Sables, a 250km self-sufficient ultramarathon across the Sahara Desert.
But this conversation goes far beyond the race itself.
We talk about:
- ageing as a runner
- adapting to physical changes
- losing competitiveness
- DNFs and setbacks
- why we seek difficult challenges later in life
- running as emotional processing
- the psychology of ultras
- simplicity, presence and life in the desert
- how running changes over decades
Paul also shares:
- how a freak accident with dogs derailed his first MDS attempt
- lessons from his DNF at Race to the Stones
- why ultras are “75% mental”
- the emotional impact of Marathon des Sables
- why he now sees running less as competition and more as adventure
Whether you’re training for an ultra, navigating changes in your running as you get older, or simply trying to hold onto the joy of movement, this is a thoughtful and surprisingly philosophical conversation about what running gives us.
You can also hear Paul on the Running Commentary podcast.
Follow Paul on Instagram
Follow Bloomsbury Outdoors on Instagram
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Paul Tonkinson
00:00:00
UKRunChat
Welcome to the UK Run Chat podcast. This week, I'm joined by comedian, writer and lifelong runner, Paul Tonkinson. And and he's also a fellow podcaster.
00:00:12
UKRunChat
I'd call him running podcast royalty because his his podcast has been going a lot longer than
Running Through Sand: Paul's New Book
00:00:16
UKRunChat
ours. So welcome, Paul.
00:00:17
Paul
Hmm.
00:00:17
UKRunChat
Paul's new book, Running Through Sand, follows his attempt to take on the legendary Marathon du Sable, which is a 250 kilometre self-sufficient ultra across the Sahara Desert.
00:00:17
Paul
Hmm.
00:00:29
UKRunChat
and but But in the book, Paul also navigates the realities of ageing as a runner and the inevitable slowing down that comes with it, injury and perhaps changing identity and how we
Paul's Running Beginnings and Evolution
00:00:43
UKRunChat
rely on running.
00:00:43
UKRunChat
So, Paul, welcome to the podcast. Thanks so much for coming on.
00:00:46
Paul
It's a pleasure. Pleasure to to to be here. Fantastic.
00:00:49
UKRunChat
So just for those in our audience who don't know your name, I'm sure most do. Can you just give us an introduction to how you got into running and, you know, what first hooked you? You've been running since you were a child, haven't you really?
00:00:59
Paul
Yeah. I mean, ah sort of i suppose I got into running... ah when I was about 12 or 13 and I realised I could do it. i was quite good at I was quite good as a kid. I was the kid who was like at the front of the cross country course when everyone was like at the back trying to go off for a smoke in the in the bushes. I was the eager beaver at the front, just just scurrying away. you know i just took to it. I just really liked it.
00:01:22
Paul
So I liked cross country and I ran for my club and I ran at quite a high level until I was sort of like 16, 17, 18. And then went university And my life changed and running left my life. And I got back into it. I ran sporadically through my 20s. And then I got back into it again in my late 30s. And now been running again for about sort of 18 years. I'm sort of 56.
00:01:44
Paul
so um So there was a peak pre-18. And then there was another peak up to um my last book, which was my attempt to run um a sub-three marathon, um which, which ah spoilers, i managed I managed to do.
00:01:59
Paul
i was managed to do it um and then And since then, it's been a ah a different phase in in my running.
Running as Identity and Therapy
00:02:07
Paul
Absolutely, yeah. And and then and so I've ended up doing sort of ultra-adventure type things, and and the the Marathon de Saba was the yeah was the adventure that i did last year.
00:02:17
Paul
So, yeah.
00:02:17
UKRunChat
Yeah, we'll well, we'll come back to why the MDS shortly.
00:02:18
Paul
Mm-mm.
00:02:21
UKRunChat
and But just so running for you, was it were you? Did you always classify yourself as ah as a runner? Was that part of your identity?
00:02:28
Paul
Yeah, i suppose ah suppose it was as a kid. I was really into football. i played a lot of football. um And then I just got into running. A lot of it was convenience. A lot of it was um it was just something I could always do. i mean, i I'll be brutally honest. A lot of it was I couldn't i couldn't absolutely commit to playing football every week because of things that were going on at home. So I needed a new sort of outlet So, cause sometimes my Saturdays, I couldn't get out to, I couldn't value, I couldn't keep up my commitments to the team. So running was just something you could whenever you wanted. Do you know what mean? The accessibility of running I've always loved. And then once found out I could do it, then it did become an aspect of my identity. Not only is the way people saw me, but as something that I related to myself. It's something that you've always got, isn't It's like a companion, isn't I It's like a mate.
00:03:23
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:03:23
Paul
um So ah I've really valued it then as a kid, and I've really valued it since i since we ah since since we reunited. ah after After about 15 years, it's been really nice to reconnect with that side of myself.
00:03:35
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:03:38
Paul
um Yeah, so it's just part of my identity.
The Transition to Meditative Running
00:03:42
UKRunChat
Yeah, I guess it's it's easy to do, like you say, pack a pair of trainers when you're on the road gigging and whatever. You must tour a lot.
00:03:47
Paul
Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. I'm um i'm away a lot. I tour a lot. and of ah And yeah, you're right. It's a nice way of exploring the area. um And it just takes the time it takes, doesn't it? There's no gear. There's no swimming costume. There's no bikes. there's no I'm a very simple runner in terms of like, i don't go and so I'm not on Strava. I often don't time my runs. I just like to run.
00:04:12
Paul
to feel, I run about an hour, at the moment I'm running like about an hour, four or five times a week, I'll just run for an hour like through the woods. ah I really like that. Every now and again I'll try and get fast over something, but mostly it's just running as a kind of semi kind of meditative sort of experience really um and just something to like connect with nature and just get that feeling that you get when you're in motion.
Challenges of Running with Age
00:04:34
Paul
Hmm. Yeah.
00:04:35
UKRunChat
Yeah, so so you did your sub three, age 47, which is incredible.
00:04:39
Paul
Well, yeah, but I suppose so. i mean, it's sort it's funny because when when you do loads of running when you're a kid especially, you know it was, everyone ran under three hours, all all the o my club mates. that Three hours was a bit, it it was a bit embarrassing if you were slower than three hours. It's weird how the culture's changed. um And so I always assumed I'd be able to beat three hours quite easily. Yeah.
00:05:03
Paul
And then of course I realized how hard it was. So I had to really train hard for that. And I really enjoyed it. I really enjoyed working hard to get fast over a marathon like that. But it was, ah it feels like another, it feels like another era now.
00:05:15
Paul
ah ah ah I just couldn't do it. I couldn't do the training. I couldn't run that fast. I don't want to, I don't want to feel, I don't want to feel that bad for that long, you know?
00:05:23
UKRunChat
Yeah. What mileage were you peeking at, interesting interestingly, for for that three attempts?
00:05:26
Paul
um Yeah. I mean, It's funny running, isn't it? Because the more you do, it's really simple, however much we overthink it. The more you do, the better you get at It's very simple. um So I was doing, started off, you know, 40 miles a week, then to 50s. There was times when I was doing like 70 to 80 miles a week.
00:05:45
Paul
um it it It depends when the week starts, doesn't Because sometimes we go from Monday to Sunday.
00:05:48
UKRunChat
Yeah, it does. Yeah.
00:05:51
Paul
But if you do a big run midweek on a Wednesday, if you go from like, you know You know, Thursday to Wednesday and you look at that week, that's an 18 week. Do you know what mean? he It's funny, you know.
00:06:02
Paul
um But I was running a lot and, you know, i was running, you know, 18 to 22 miles on a Sunday and, you know, doing interval sessions.
00:06:04
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:06:10
Paul
And I did the proper training that you need to do,
Impact of the Pandemic on Running
00:06:13
Paul
you know. Yeah.
00:06:13
UKRunChat
Yeah. And did your body handle that training okay as in mid to mid to mid?
00:06:17
Paul
Yeah, yeah it it handled it in small doses. I mean, it was it was a short training period of about three, four months. um And I... um Is my mic working?
00:06:28
Paul
There's no...
00:06:28
UKRunChat
Yeah. Yeah.
00:06:29
Paul
Okay, sorry, so sorry. um And I... ah And I've got little niggles. And I've got Morton's toe, um which I think affects things a little bit. um But overall, it it it held. It just it just held. But what most of my running now is on soft surfaces and quite slow.
00:06:50
Paul
and again, the it holds at that level. But i think if I really ramped up the mileage, know whether it would at the moment. It feels like... I think that's a big part of... um as you get a but a little bit older as a runner, is that you, ah running becomes, it's an accommodation, isn't it, with your body?
00:07:08
UKRunChat
Yeah. Yeah.
00:07:08
Paul
It's like it's part of an ongoing negotiation.
00:07:11
Paul
When you're young, you run as fast as you possibly can. And it's and it's your mind hiss mind versus body, and the mind's driving the body. um And when you get older, the the body's almost listening to the mind and saying, you know what, just take it easy, just relax.
00:07:25
Paul
Because the big motivation for me now when running is not to do anything that stops me being able to continue running, you know, because it's so valuable to me. So I don't hurt myself. I just want to, I just want to keep, keep it all going, you know.
00:07:39
UKRunChat
Yeah. So when when did you, was there a moment when you noticed yourself getting older and thinking, I can't train like I used to?
00:07:46
Paul
Hmm. I, I, I can't, I think I sort of felt it during, um, the great awfulness, uh, the pandemic.
00:07:57
Paul
Um, I, uh,
00:07:57
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:07:59
Paul
I don't know whether it was being a little bit down with it all or I was eating and drinking a bit too much. I think a lot of people put on a bit of timber over the pandemic. and so it's like It was like a like a tax, wasn't it? like I definitely remember it a stone heavier. um And we were doing these. We were keeping quite busy during it. We were doing a little run of like food deliveries and stuff.
00:08:25
Paul
um which I really enjoyed doing because it got me out of the house feeling useful. But but the off the disadvantage of that is when we finished, we had loads of sandwiches left. ah but so So some we'd give away, but some we'd end up just scoffing.
00:08:40
Paul
um And I started to, yeah, i just my my body just felt a bit more cumbersome, you know, and I started to wake up and and my back hurt. And the walk to the shower got a little bit more,
00:08:52
Paul
um comic, you know, just a little bit more, a little bit stiffer.
00:08:54
UKRunChat
Yeah. Yeah.
00:08:56
Paul
And um so, yeah, I think it was during then where I felt my calves went ah went a couple of times. And I think calves can be quite a tricky one because they can be quite sort of recurring injury.
00:09:07
Paul
So i do I do a lot of calf lifts now and I wear calf support socks and stuff. And um to be fair, they've calmed down the last couple of years. ah I made a decision recently. about three years ago, never to do anything that would stop me running the next day.
00:09:21
Paul
And since then, touch wood, um I've been injury free and it's been
Marathon de Sable: Motivation and Training
00:09:25
Paul
great. you know
00:09:25
UKRunChat
Yeah, so so does that mean you're not competitive like you used to be?
00:09:29
Paul
I'm definitely not as competitive as I used to be. I mean, ah sometimes ah go down the track a couple of times and you know try and be certain time for you know on park run or something. you know Try and get fast time. for If I'm fit, I can still get around 20 minutes for ah for a park run.
00:09:47
Paul
But that's hard, you know, but but I really enjoy it. There's still the the competitive nature is still within me, but I don't i don't indulge it as much. um And I definitely don't
00:10:01
Paul
think of myself as a fast runner. I just think of myself as someone who who enjoys running. So that's so that that's a bit of a change. I think, but I do enjoy trying to run fast because it carries within it a sort of,
00:10:15
Paul
echo of youth a little bit it's like changing a previous state and even though if you're not young and fit you still get you still catch a glimpse of it there's something that you kind of reconnects to the to the young you you know there's some there's a there's a through line isn't there but i think we can all get that whatever level we're at you know that we just wherever we are just trying to sprint at the end of a race or something it's like there's a there's a playfulness to it that think really important you know yeah
00:10:38
UKRunChat
Yeah. do Do you think do you think aging because we can become quite focused on ourselves when we're runners, can't we, especially when we're competing with ourselves and others.
00:10:48
Paul
o
00:10:48
UKRunChat
Do you think aging strips the ego away from running or do you think it kind of exposes it a bit?
00:10:53
Paul
you
00:10:56
UKRunChat
I'm struggling with it at the moment because I'm noticing my body's aging a bit.
00:10:58
Paul
Right.
00:11:00
UKRunChat
I'm i'm just wondering whether you notice that.
00:11:02
Paul
And how are you finding it? Have you run fast previously or are you just adapting?
00:11:06
UKRunChat
No, I started running in my twenty s So I kind of missed all that school running.
00:11:07
Paul
Okay.
00:11:09
UKRunChat
I was one of the ones running away, you know, when in the other direction for Crossclink.
00:11:12
Paul
Yeah. Okay. Right. Yeah.
00:11:14
UKRunChat
So I've never got to that really fast point. But even now I'm noticing the difference in it. And it is, it's hard, isn't it? It's hard to adjust. But I've i've done exactly what you did. I'm like, right, I'm going to do an ultra this year.
00:11:25
Paul
Right.
00:11:25
UKRunChat
And I don't understand why, why we why do we do that to ourselves, Paul?
00:11:26
Paul
Fantastic.
00:11:29
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:11:30
Paul
Well, you know, what one but one of the one of the ah conclusions from the book is that um it's good it's good to do hard things. You know, it's good he's good to do challenges.
00:11:38
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:11:40
Paul
It's almost you reach a point where. In terms of like career and the ways you define yourself through that, it kind of plays out, doesn't it? You know, it's like i'll really enjoy stand-up comedy and I'll do stand-up comedy forever. um But I don't define myself through career success. It's just something I i enjoy doing.
00:11:59
Paul
And it's nice to keep challenging. It's so hard to get in... them comfortable zones, isn't it, as you get older and sort of zones of complacency and just do the same things all the time.
00:12:10
Paul
And part of that's good because it means you're getting older and you found out what works for you. And and that's that's that's part of a a pleasurable life. But if you do it too much, you get a bit um ah calcified with it and it just becomes, you you feel you feel your life narrowing, don't you?
00:12:26
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:12:26
Paul
So it's nice to do big events. Like, you know, i went to, ah because I'm not a natural kind of adventurous person, can-do personality, really.
00:12:37
Paul
I like races. I like marathons. a like But, you know, a lot my life's routine. um So for me to go to the Sahara and try and run it, being self-sufficient carrying my own food and all that, it's way out in my comfort zone. I'm not a very practical person. um but it But what it did was it it sort of expanded the idea I had about myself because if you change your environment,
00:12:58
Paul
then your personality adapts to that environment. I'm only not an adventurous person because I'm not living an adventurous life. do you mean there there is There is adventure latent within me And I'm and i'm i not a practical person because I don't have to be.
00:13:09
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:13:12
Paul
But when you're away in and in the doing an event like the Marathon de Sable, it's just a series of problems that you navigate. And that's quite nice. you know And you realize that you are capable of more.
00:13:23
Paul
And I think that's a nice lesson to have as you get older, that you're, just capable of more. And it's good to keep stretching yourself physically um and mentally. you know what mean? just keep Just keep nibbling away at the edges, you know.
00:13:37
UKRunChat
Yeah, yeah, you're right. It's easy to write ourselves off, isn't it? And go, oh, I'm just getting old and I can't do that anymore.
00:13:42
Paul
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But but having said that, ah I don't see... um I'm not one of those people who sees it as a battle. I don't see it as like me versus age. And and I know a lot of runners so kind of do. And it's like, I'm still going to be really fast. And I totally respect that. um And I think there's a lot of luck element. Some runners can just run fast late and some runners can't. And there's you've got to find out where you are on that spectrum. But I see um getting older and running as a real privilege, you know, to just run for a long, you know, to think that you can run for decades is incredible, isn't it?
00:14:16
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:14:16
Paul
and and an ultras is a bit of a it's a different mindset it took me a while to work it out and obviously i'm still working out because i've only done i've only done one i've only did the other one i dropped out of so my record's not great it's currently currently 50 50 um but and it's like it's a so kind of traveling mindset it's like um it's not it's definitely didn't feel like a race thing it felt more like um Before I did Marathon Sable, people said it was like 75% in your mind and 25% physical. And I didn't really understand that or I wondered whether it was true or not. But now I've done it, I kind of realised that it is. It's like it's ah it's a mental – it really is ah a mental battle. um
00:15:01
Paul
And if you as long as you've got your motivation right and your your head's right, then then you're going have a good time, you know. Yeah.
00:15:08
UKRunChat
Yeah. So why did you choose the Marathon de Sable then? Why?
00:15:11
Paul
I mean, a big part of a big part of it was because it was part of the pitch for the book.
00:15:11
UKRunChat
It's huge.
00:15:15
Paul
So we're there.
00:15:18
UKRunChat
like
00:15:18
Paul
yeah I was there with this guy in ah you the put the publisher, Blessham. And there's a formula in writing, isn't about running, where you tend to go from the marathon to longer distances. And these formulas exist.
00:15:31
Paul
um And you resist them at your peril, you know. So we were thinking of, like, you know, we need an event, go longer. And I just kind of threw it out. um Because I'd heard about it and talked about it with other runners.
00:15:42
Paul
um And you could tell he liked it. um He really liked the idea of me in the desert. and And so that became like, a sort of mini theme of the book, just the sort of chats with the publisher about, am I going to do it? We really want you to do it I don't know whether I want to do it I'm training for it now. had an accident. This year we're going to do it. So it became a bit of a drama. The book itself became a bit of an ultra. um Because, you know, people chatted to me about the Marathon Saba and a lot of it was, um it's going to be, you know, one of the best experiences of your life. It's really going to change you. And it's easy to be sniffy about stuff like that.
00:16:18
Paul
um But having done it, I really think it was a a very big experience in my life. And I think it's, um I think you don't have to be crazily fit to do it.
00:16:31
Paul
I think it's achievable to a lot of people. And I think a lot of people would really enjoy it if they did it. Yeah.
00:16:36
UKRunChat
Yeah, well there's a lot of mythology around that race, isn't there? It's a big deal.
00:16:41
Paul
Yeah.
00:16:42
UKRunChat
Was it that that appealed or was it the the physical challenge for you?
00:16:45
Paul
I think it was i think i think the my the mythology was obviously part of it. I mean, you know it's described as the toughest foot race on earth, and ah ah and it obviously isn't. ah it he saying It's not to say it's happy, you know you you say that and it ults, it's like, oh, or you do the spine or do the hundred, you know. um the The truth is the organisers pitch it at a really nice level. because they want you They want to really test you, but they want you to finish.
00:17:13
Paul
um um out of a thousand finishes maybe about a hundred dropped out so like it's not high but it's not nothing so it's obviously it's obviously challenging it's it's a long way from easy but it's not impossible um and i was attracted to the desert nature of it i was attracted to the mythology of it being in the desert the beauty
00:17:18
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:17:37
Paul
it's like ah It feels like a kind of bucket list race, doesn't it? I'd like to do other ultras. um And I'd like to do other different multi-stages. But it was um I think it was that. that ah I also wanted to write a book that involved talking about it as well because it felt like a very dramatic thing to write about.
Book Development: Overcoming Setbacks
00:17:55
Paul
So the book ended up being in like two stages. The first stage, the preparation and getting ready and all the training and the drama of the of the race. And then the second stage, the race itself. And that sort of...
00:18:06
Paul
that that felt nice nice and simple and and worked out. So great it ticked a lot of boxes, yeah.
00:18:11
UKRunChat
Because it took you about three years to get to the start line, didn't it, in the end?
00:18:14
Paul
It sort of did, really, yeah, because I was, yeah, the through various injuries, and then there was one year, 2024, when I got very, very fit, and I was really training hard in quite a competitive mindset for it, um and hopefully on the verge of a decent marathon de sablo, And then I got run over by a dog in Highgate Woods.
00:18:40
UKRunChat
couldn't You couldn't make that up, could you? Like,
00:18:42
Paul
The handless dog. um it can't yet it's so It's funny. It happened to me before during lockdown, I got run over by dogs. I mean, you don't get run over by them. You get run into them.
00:18:52
Paul
I don't know if it's ever happened to you when you're running, but if dogs don't out of here,
00:18:54
UKRunChat
It has, yeah. I run with my dog and I'm constantly having to hurdle her or I end up getting...
00:18:59
Paul
Yeah, yeah. And I love dogs. I absolutely adore dogs. um So i'm not I'm not moaning. This isn't an anti-dog. It's more the thing of like the force of dogs. When you get two dogs locked in together, side by side, chasing something, but're they're quite a force. you know And of course, when you're running, you're off the ground. So you so you're literally in midair.
00:19:22
Paul
And so when they hit you, so i've I've taken a couple of bad falls. And this fall happened like a week before i was meant to set off for the Marathon de Sambler. And I really hurt my shoulder. It sort of tore various ligaments and um and it's still not right. My shoulder's still not right. It still clicks and bristly and a bit, it's just different.
00:19:40
Paul
um And that was a marathon disciple because I fell and I was running with a rucksack. And the rooftop was full of tins. so So I just smashed my shoulder onto loads of tins and ruptured the tins in the process. But so, yeah, it it took me three years to get to the start line.
00:20:00
Paul
i'm But in a way, the next year was better because I hadn't trained as hard, but my mindset was better. And I was more um open to the experience and curious and just wanted to have fun and meet people and just sort of, I was more grateful for the experience, I think, because because the first year had just been denied me at the last minute. So I was just grateful for the opportunity to get out there. yeah Oh
00:20:25
UKRunChat
yeah Yeah, that must have been really tough, though.
00:20:26
Paul
umma
00:20:27
UKRunChat
like A lot of people would have taken that as a sign from the universe to say you're not meant to do this.
00:20:32
Paul
ah yeah, yeah, it totally. um it And and it it was tough. And I'll be honest, I struggled with it. um I was down for a couple months because you build up this thing and then suddenly it's like a vacuum, isn't it? and Nature appalls a vacuum. So i ended up committing myself to different things. you know I got really into different things and quite healthy things, but it was just like you need you just need other stuff to get into because you your meaning is, you've created a structure meaning around your life and then it's suddenly been been been whipped away.
00:21:01
Paul
and And then for a while I thought, Maybe I shouldn't, maybe maybe it is a sign, maybe I shouldn't bother doing it. So there was a brief period um where I chatted and i was thinking about why we do these events and um and what they're about.
00:21:19
Paul
And I briefly sort of considered that maybe I didn't need them anymore because I felt quite, ah after after the initial... hoo-ha had ended and I'd been through stuff and I went to a bit of therapy and whatever. I just felt a bit more, I felt really quite content um as if that stage of my life was over.
00:21:37
Paul
I think the idea that i had going in my head was, um is that we do these events in some way to ah process these long events, these long hard, you know, look but why why do people do long hard events?
00:21:52
UKRunChat
Mm-hmm.
00:21:53
Paul
What is it about? but Why do we enjoy them? um and And I think part of it is because for me anyway, it kind of helped process ah experiences i'd I'd had in my life. And sort of it it helped me sort of deal with mental things that I was struggling with. And a lot of these things that we struggle with, they're sort of hard to express, really. They're sort of beyond words. And I think that's why running works, because running itself is beyond words. It's an activity. And it felt almost like when you do these things, you kind of,
00:22:21
Paul
you sort of burn off a bit of psychological residue or something or clear, clear the decks or whatever, whatever you know?
Completing the Marathon: Growth and Accomplishment
00:22:29
Paul
um So I felt I've cleared the decks. I felt I didn't need these events anymore.
00:22:33
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:22:33
Paul
um So I went to pitch to the guy. Again, I talk about this in the book. I went ah i went to pitch to the publisher. Why don't I write a book about a guy who's really happy and doesn't need to run long distance races any anymore?
00:22:46
Paul
And he said, no one will buy it. ah Because no one's interested in in that. They want the gristle, they want the meat. And of course I realize that's true. And and I realize that the reason why we constantly return to these events is because ah residue accumulates in our lives, just just through day-to-day living, just little agitations, little rumblings, little subterranean. And so for me anyway, race is...
00:23:15
Paul
they sort of empty me in a way, in a really nice, healthy way. ah And running does, you know, when I go for a run, I feel a bit lighter afterwards. um And obviously after, when you do a marathon, you feel a bit lighter. You've got rid of, you've just got rid of stuff. You know, it's like, it's very therapeutic in that sense. So, um and so the Marathon de Saba, because it happened over a week, um was probably the ultimate in that. I just felt very calm afterwards for for for quite a long time. People talk about the sort of,
00:23:46
Paul
post-marathon bubble or the post-ultra bubble, I felt very um at peace. And it kind of stayed with me, really. I felt sort of changed by it. It had been by far the hardest thing I've done physically in my life.
00:24:01
Paul
And day four is the biggest is the longest day, and it's like 50-odd miles. and and And I really took it on. I really got determined and just thought, I'm just going to do this in one. I didn't do it particularly fast. I was very mid-pack the whole way. I was very in the middle.
00:24:19
Paul
um but But as I say, everyone's just doing it on their own level, you know. And by the end of that day, ah you know, i felt really euphoric to have done that, to have taken that on and done it. And things happen in the process of this that kind of,
00:24:31
Paul
it's like a It's like a shedding, isn't it? It's like throwing it's like discarding stuff.
00:24:34
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:24:36
Paul
ah And I really like it. I think that's what my running so healthy. And it's sort of... And any you know anger that you're dealing with at every sort of... It's not... you You're not taking out on anyone else. you like I used to play football and then that often used to descend into violence on a Sunday morning. I didn't get involved in it because I'm not a violent person, but you're part of that teams and hungover men on a Sunday morning. And it's quite, it's quite an angry environment to be in, you know? So I find runners a bit gentler. I often find the really good runners to be the gentlest of of them all actually. Um, and I often wonder which weather, cause they've just kind of, they've just run it all off. They've done kind of, they've, they've, they've emptied themselves in a really nice way, you know? So, uh,
00:25:29
Paul
Sorry, I don't even know when I started that. I don't know what...
00:25:31
UKRunChat
I don't know what I asked you, but it was, no, I enjoyed that. Thank you. and i was just thinking maybe if you hadn't, if you had have run it, because you but you were aiming to run it quite competitively, weren't you, to start with, it you wouldn't have enjoyed it and got as much out.
00:25:36
Paul
what what
00:25:42
Paul
Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, maybe, yeah, 2024. It's like maybe i was I was starting to get a bit competitive about it. I had got really fit.
00:25:54
Paul
um And and there's ah there's a pleasure in getting really fit. um I was doing like 80 mile a week. I was carrying my rucksack. I was essentially doing four long runs a week, really. I was running Monday and Tuesday, resting Wednesday, and then running long again Thursday, Friday. And I was doing a lot of hill work.
00:26:18
Paul
And you reach that stage when you're very fit, where it's very, running feels like, it feels like nutrition. It feels like, it's not taking anything out of you. It's just feeding you. You can feed, you just feel yourself getting stronger. It's amazing. I haven't had that since then. I don't, I don't even know whether I'll ever get it again. um but it was an amazing feeling to just feel strength and like you'd saw a hill and you just ran up it and and and and then ran down and then you ran up it again. It was like just really nice feeling, but by the same token, it's quite the sort of,
00:26:54
Paul
solitary thing to experience as well and it can get quite obsessive um and i don't know how healthy
First Ultra Race Attempt: Lessons Learned
00:27:01
Paul
that is for me to be and i think i think running's better when i take it a bit gentler so i think you're right i think if i'd gone there the first year and i was really fit i might not have got as much out of it yeah yeah i might not have been as open to people because the second time i went i was slower
00:27:10
UKRunChat
no
00:27:15
Paul
I did it, but I was very open. I was very, I was chatting to people. I was also taking notes. I mean, the first year I was doing it, I was meant to be going there to do a book, but I didn't want to take any, I didn't want to take my phone because of the weight. I was getting really obsessive about weight and I don't want to I'm not'm definitely not taking any phones. I'll need a charger and I don't want to charge my phone. And, you know, I meant to be like writing a book about it. I'm not taking any recording equipment. You know, my publisher was like, what are you doing? What are you doing? You have to take it. I'm not, I'm doing the race. And that's it, you know, so but I've lost my sort of mind a little bit with it.
00:27:49
Paul
And as I so say, the second year was a bit more, just, just, just grown up and just a bit bit bit more relaxed. Yeah.
00:27:56
UKRunChat
Yeah, so you mentioned earlier that you DNF'd an ultra before you did the marathon
00:28:00
Paul
Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. that was That was the race to the stones, um which is a great race.
00:28:01
UKRunChat
my
00:28:06
Paul
Which ultra are you doing?
00:28:09
UKRunChat
I'm doing the lap, which is around Lake Windsor-Mere.
00:28:10
Paul
and What is that?
00:28:12
UKRunChat
So that's all around the lake. I have done Race to the Stones, though.
00:28:15
Paul
Okay, cool. Right, okay. um Yeah, I did race to the stones, um I think it was 2023, and it was my first ultra trying to get ready to do ultras.
00:28:26
Paul
um And what I did for that was not much training at all. and And I was, a you know, running's constantly showing, humbling you, isn't it?
00:28:31
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:28:39
Paul
You know, so it's a very humbling experience.
00:28:41
UKRunChat
Mm-hmm.
00:28:42
Paul
And I did a bit of training and I just assumed that I'd be able to just do two days, no problem. And I sort of had the absurd notion that I'd be fitter the second day than I was the first. ah but In some way, the first day would train me up for the second.
00:28:57
Paul
And ironically, when I did the marathon de sable, I felt stronger on the third day than I did on days one and two. So I think some there is something about long stages where your body gets used to it.
00:29:10
Paul
But I think a two-day thing was was just, it wasn't going to happen. Well, it wasn't going to happen because the first day I basically pulled out and rang my wife and she came and picked me up And it was just so, it was such a relief. I set off too fast.
00:29:24
Paul
I made all the mistakes. um i set off too fast. I fell in with a few guys who were felt like really hardy ultra runners. And we ran in tandem together till about 20, 30 kilometers. um I didn't have enough water. to It got really hot.
00:29:42
Paul
I overheated. i got dehydrated. I just completely fell off. You know, I completely just went. um I needed a little bit of medical attention, not much. I just needed to be checked out. I was one of those people in the tent. i needed some sort of reassurance, you know, was starting to feel a bit dizzy.
00:30:01
Paul
And then i was walking. had 10 miles to go and I was walking the last 10 miles. And people were overtaking me um who were just out for a walk. Never mindd never mind competitors, just people strolling.
00:30:20
Paul
And they'd look at me, who's this guy? I'm wearing a number and who at the side. And this guy offered me a a segment of orange.
00:30:31
Paul
And I just pulled out at that moment. I just i just thought, what? up What am i doing? Because I didn't know what I was doing. I didn't have a why. I didn't have a motivation. It was just all a bit of a joke, you know. um And so I think you need solid reasons for doing these. They don't have to be massive psychological things. but You need a solid reason. And ah and I didn't have one.
00:30:51
Paul
And I got found out. And once I pulled out, I... am I instantly felt better and and I just walked home and then finished the first age and then gave my wife a ring and and and then went home. you know It's like, yeah, you, you um yeah. and i And I didn't feel particularly bad or anything. i I felt okay. It just felt like the whole thing just became absurd. um why we don't, why are we all doing this? I was like, I'm not, this isn't, i don't want to do this. Why am I doing it?
00:31:25
Paul
um Because it's some, it's something that we, we enter into, you know, you, you, you enter into it willingly and you create a thing. Everyone enters a race that that this matters. And of course it does. And it has the meaning that we give it.
00:31:39
Paul
So you need to give it meaning. And if you don't, they're so hard that for me anyway, I just couldn't, you know, so the marathon to Sabor, I got my head right and it and had a much better experience as as a result.
00:31:50
Paul
Yeah. but
00:31:51
UKRunChat
So what was your why then for the Marathon of Salva in the end? And it wasn't just to write a book, i of I'm hoping. that
00:31:56
Paul
No, no, no, no. It wasn't to write a book. I felt that sort of,
00:32:02
Paul
i felt i needededed a quite filled quite deep as it was i felt ah ah I needed a symbol in my life that I could still take on challenge. I've become very, um not eagulous, but I'm quite a sort of instinctively generous person. I think being a parent, you tend to sort of,
00:32:30
Paul
I think it's easy to sideline yourself in your own life a little bit. but And I don't think that's always unhealthy. I think it's nice to be generous and help people. And of course you want to be a good parent, but also to be generous to other people. And I'm very grateful for what life's given me and stand up. And it's already exceeded any expectations I might've had as a kid. i mean, just the life had, it's just so, um um it's just incredible.
00:32:52
Paul
um And so i think I needed some sort of symbol to myself that I could still rise to a challenge and do it
Symbolic Importance of Challenges
00:33:04
Paul
for myself. It's quite selfish in a way. It's just like I'm proving to myself that I can do this hard thing.
00:33:10
Paul
um and ah and and And doing that it's going to be really valuable. And it's going to show to us, it's going to show me um a little bit that there's life in the old dog yet and it's and it's worth it's worth rousing that old dog to do things not just to kind of ah just kind of just shuffle around being really mellow and really you know whatever it's just nice it's nice to do challenges I needed a symbol that I could have achieve hard a hard thing you know so um so that was the big that was a big thing for me just to prove to myself that was that i still had a bit of bit of fight in me you know after the dnf and whatever um and i did and it it was good i really enjoyed it it was really sort of like um like the real meat of uh the marathon decider is day four is the hardest day and when you finish that um
00:34:04
Paul
I don't know how other runners feel when they finish a really hard thing. I do feel quite bullish. I feel quite, um it does feel quite, there's a, I think ultimately you feel really relaxed and really connected to other people and all that kind of thing.
00:34:20
Paul
But there's an initial spike of the first sort of hour, two hours or something where I feel quite, I just feel quite tough. You know, I feel quite kind of, do you get that at all?
00:34:31
Paul
Do you get that?
00:34:32
UKRunChat
Yeah, I did that totally. Yeah, you feel like really proud yourself, like just done that.
00:34:33
Paul
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. yet
00:34:36
UKRunChat
Yes.
00:34:36
Paul
Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. And I think I'm a bit shy about um embracing that, but you feel like, think, yeah, you feel a bit full yourself and a bit kind of ego and like, you you know, I describe it in the book as that you want to go to on ah on on a stag weekend to Las Vegas with Tyson Fury, you know, it's that kind of, so that sort of feeling, that kind of ah it's appetites. And I want to, you know, I don't know, if've you've you've risen to a challenge and there's ah there's a a real sort of animalistic challenge joy in that.
00:35:05
Paul
um So I'm sort of wanting to experience that again, because you don't get to experience it much in life. Because of course, you know, as you ah as you get older in careers and stuff, you know the natural cycle is for young people to come through. And and that's perfectly natural and has to happen. And it's fantastic.
00:35:25
Paul
And so you you your career tends to sort of plateau. Some people can ah rise exponentially and good luck to them, but most people experience some kind of plateau. um And so it's nice to have an arena completely unrelated to everyone else because i'm not it's not like i'm beating anyone.
00:35:43
Paul
It's not like I'm engaging it competitively with anyone other than myself. It's a very personal experience, but it's still nice to have that, to feel that joy, you know, that feeling of like, yeah,
Desert Experience and Camaraderie
00:35:53
Paul
I've done that. It's just a nice thing to carry with you. you said it was hard and I did it and I looked it in the eye and I was like, I had ah an honest effort. I could have easily pulled out and I didn't. I kept, so that, that in itself is, is a nice feeling and accessible to all, you know what I mean? Which is such the beautiful thing about it, isn't it? It's like you go to, let's see, go to London marathon. I went as a spectator recently and, um,
00:36:16
Paul
I was at the 23 mile point of the London Marathon and watching all the agony of it and some people cramping and some walking and and some just really locked in and everyone's having their own experience and everyone's that sort of, that kind of triumph is available to everyone on every level, on every timescale. And that's a great thing about running, isn't it? The sort of, the pure democracy of it, you know?
00:36:38
Paul
Yeah. so that So I think that's what it gave me.
00:36:38
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:36:41
Paul
That's why I wanted to do it. Yeah.
00:36:42
UKRunChat
Yeah. so So what was the reality of the desert like? Did it meet your expectations?
00:36:48
Paul
Yeah, it it was amazing. I mean, it was it was so... ah I was worried about the... i was a little bit worried about the space initially because I used to see loads of photography and it would be like just ah a solitary runner on top of a dune and no one else around. And I found that, oh, am I going to get a bit freaked out by it? But the reality is you there's a lot of people around. Every now and again, you find yourself in the middle of this incredible desert panorama and it's completely gorgeous and and that sense of space is a different beauty to the kind you get in woods because I like running through woods really and I like sort of you're surrounded by you know trees and shrubs etc and I really love that and ah I like running on the moors I like running in North Yorkshire moors and there you get a sense of the space and it's more stark there's a barren there's a barren nature to it um and the desert's ever changing so some bits are sort of almost gravelly and some are like dry waddies like riverbeds and some ah there's a bit of
00:37:47
Paul
bit of greenery around, and then some of it's just like a long desert flat. And so it's constantly changing, and you're just drenched in beauty for a week.
00:37:58
Paul
And we it's just an amazing feeling to be in the middle of that. you know it's sort of It's really peaceful, um and it really it's really nice to be off-grid for a week because um obviously we're on our phones a lot, and there's a lot of noise and pressure around socials, et cetera. So it's nice to be released from that.
00:38:16
Paul
and having no choice about it because there's no signal. So there's nothing you can do anyway. So that was really, you just feel the difference very quickly. But two or three days in, you feel this sort of inner spaciousness.
00:38:29
Paul
And so you're doing that and then it's, and you're surrounded by all this beauty and it's, says you get seduced by the simplicity of the days because you you you wake up with ah with the sunrise it's and then you eat some rubbish food and then you run and walk all day.
00:38:46
Paul
normally finish by about two in the afternoon and then you relax with your tent mates, chat to people, you know, refuel, et cetera. And then you go to sleep at sunset and then the next day you do exactly the same thing.
00:38:58
Paul
And it's amazing how pleasurable that is. It's amazing how the simplicity of it is so fantastic.
00:39:01
UKRunChat
Thank you.
00:39:05
Paul
um And that's sort of why I want to do another one really. It's like the ultimate kind of detox, but you're, you're you're working obviously but and ah another thing about the desert is because the terrain is constantly changing and you don't want to fall over again hurt your shoulder hurt whatever it is so you're you're in a kind of moment to moment awareness phase a lot of it's like You chunk everything down day by day, checkpoint to checkpoint, mile by mile, and almost step by step at times. It gets quite technical. you're working You're looking at your steps. And that in itself is relaxing because you're not thinking. You're just in the moment. You're just a physical, you're scuttling across a desert like this weird little beetle surrounded by loads of other people doing exactly the same thing. you know
00:39:46
Paul
So it's very relaxing, ultimately.
00:39:50
UKRunChat
and So you're actually just living in the present, aren't you? Which we don't do at all, really.
00:39:52
Paul
Yeah, yeah yeah yeah you're you're in the moment you're at you're in the moment, which is which is a rare thing to be in. And you kind of know when you are. um And it's it's it's really nice. You could feel it at the end of the race. You could feel it sort of, you know, the the getting drawn back in to life. You know, it was it was quite it was quite hard, actually, the the adjustment. Just the two or three days after it, just getting drawn, you know, suddenly you're on emails again and you're thinking about the future and life's just complicating. You know, we all a lot of us complicate our lives. and
00:40:23
Paul
let's be fine it's It's amazing. We can reach whoever we want on the phone and we can send messages across the world and all this content and information, et cetera. but it But it does come with a price, of course, and it's nice to be removed from that.
00:40:36
UKRunChat
Yeah, and how was it with living in a very small environment with other people?
00:40:42
Paul
It was great. he was fantastic. I mean, I didn't know any of them. um I was just in a tent full of like random blokes between mid-40s to mid-50s. I was the oldest in the tent. and They were from around the UK.
00:40:57
Paul
And we all got on really well. We didn't we we all really supported each other. And um I've got the book launch in a few days, and they're all coming. you know So one one guy's flying in from Germany.
00:41:06
UKRunChat
Oh.
00:41:09
Paul
Another guy's coming in from Jersey. and People coming from around the country. And it's really nice. it's not like It's not like we're going to be closest friends for life, but we will always have that week.
00:41:23
Paul
And so there will always be a bond for because of that. And we're sort of men of a certain a certain age. So we didn't emote that much. But by the same token, we got to know each other well.
00:41:37
Paul
You know, there's something something happened during the week. It was just was just just really, really nice. And we just had each other's backs from the first day. he was It was really nice, actually. And that was, again, something people told me, oh, you the tent, it's all about the tent.
00:41:51
Paul
and i um And again, I didn't believe it but it it, but it was. It was all about, the longest day it was all about, make it get back to the tent. get That was a mantra, get back to the tent. Let's make it to the tent. um And it was just nice to be,
00:42:06
Paul
to have that, you know, sort of ah belonging and sort of solidarity and camaraderie. Again, that's something that you rarely experience, especially for creatives. You know, I'm a i'm a stand-up. i I get away with other stand-ups, but it's not it's a solitary endeavour.
00:42:20
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:42:21
Paul
it was nice to to be joined, you know, to be in a gang
Post-Race Reflections
00:42:24
Paul
again. That was nice.
00:42:25
UKRunChat
Yeah, no, that's, yeah, it's it sounds like it wasn't so much about the running. It was more about the people
00:42:32
Paul
yeah yeah know you're right Yeah, you're right. It was but it was it was about it was it was about the people that that that you met doing it and and the psychological journey of it. yeah It was very valuable.
00:42:45
Paul
yeah They should pay me, shouldn't they? I mean, I'm quite a good spokesman, aren't they
00:42:50
UKRunChat
You are, you're very good.
00:42:50
Paul
a they? They wouldn't give me a refund the first year when I pulled that out. But I've
00:42:58
UKRunChat
So you paid them twice.
00:42:59
Paul
Let it go. Let it go. That's the thing. That's the thing. You let these things go.
00:43:03
UKRunChat
You do, you do. So just what what was the finish line like? So after, you so it's seven days running, isn't it? Is that right?
00:43:11
Paul
It's six days running. You have a day off.
00:43:12
UKRunChat
Six days.
00:43:12
Paul
You've you've got the you've got two days. You've got 36 hours, really, to do the longer stage.
00:43:17
UKRunChat
Right.
00:43:18
Paul
And that happens over days four and five. But really, you try and get it done on day four so you can have a rest day on day five. And then you do six and seven, and then it's over. So it's six days running. um the um The finish line was, um is it was strange. it was always you know It was like, another thing with the book is reality is never what you think it's going to be.
00:43:45
Paul
and So the finish line wasn't what I thought it was going to be. I thought it was going to be some kind of like crazily emotional kind of, you know, sort of platoon, you know the end of platoon moment, you know, stirring music, et cetera. Yeah.
00:43:57
Paul
um And it was it was really nice. But the end of the race really had been day four, the hardest race. were The hardest day. Once you'd done that, you kind of knew you were finished. So I ended up running in with this guy. ah with a um He was a risk assessment manager from Basingstoke called Martin.
00:44:14
Paul
um And I wouldn't have planned that. And I don't think he'd planned it either. And we ran in together. And it was just really nice. It was just really it was just really nice. And um there was a guy there, Will, who had been the kind of,
00:44:26
Paul
cheerleader during the race itself. And i'd got ah I'd kind of become increasingly affectionate to him. and This French guy is very positive. So just I kind of just jogged over, gave him a hug. And then you're immediately in a different reality because I thought you'd finish the race And then you'd be in this big expanse and you could just chat with the people who'd done it and slowly, but it wasn't like that.
00:44:49
Paul
It was like you finished the race and immediately you're in a row full of people asking you whether you wanted a taxi back to the hotel, which was like 80 kilometers away. And it's quite urban. And do you what mean?
00:44:59
Paul
You're in a car park and where's the bus? And you're just suddenly in a different, you're you're in a different reality.
00:45:03
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:45:04
Paul
You know, the race is, the race has finished, you know, this amazing thing. has been And you've been, you kind of spat out a little bit. So, So it was amazing, but it took a while to process, you know, because you're still sort of um you're you're not in shock, but you're like, you're on the bus and you're really, really tired, like really, really tired. It took like about five, six hours to get back to the hotel, but you're too excited to sleep.
00:45:33
Paul
But you're like, your upper body's tired from just the rucksack all that time and all your legs are kind of cramping. and You're in a, like a, quite a small bus seat and your head's heavy but you can't sleep and you and you're adjusting to and you really want to get back into a hot shower you're starting to fetishize normal things because you've had a week with no showers and no beds so you're desperate for that but it's kind of it's that you're in a funny little place you know a funny little phase um And then, you know, a few days later, I was looking at some friends who got chalet in the Alps, and I went to chill out there.
00:46:11
Paul
And that was when I really relaxed and let it all go. And then writing the book, you get to revisit it again, which is really nice, because you get to revisit the experience and write about your tent mates and all the good stuff.
00:46:24
Paul
But the initial end line, always think, you know, it's a cliche, isn't it? But it's the journey, isn't it? It's great to finish, isn't it?
00:46:31
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:46:33
Paul
And there's always a sort of elusiveness about finishes, isn't there? There's always a thing like, when is this? Is it ever going happen? It's like it's something that's going to get pulled away from you right the last minute, you know.
00:46:46
Paul
um But, yeah, that the last day, you sort of you know you can do it, really. It's 20 kilometres. It's the shortest phase. And you kind of know it's only got one checkpoint. You kind of know you kind of know know you can do it by the time. It's like a run to the bus almost the last day, to be honest, yeah.
00:47:01
UKRunChat
Yeah, its it sounds like it's had a huge impact on you.
00:47:03
Paul
Yeah, he has, yeah.
00:47:04
UKRunChat
How has it changed you as a runner then, would you say now? what what's What's different now?
00:47:09
Paul
Yeah, I suppose it's just it's just relaxed me. It's just relaxed me even more, made me even less competitive, really. Just, ah you know, um we're doing a coast we're doing the Coast to Coast in a few weeks with the podcast, me and Rob, and I'm really looking forward to that. I'm looking forward to so sort of running as an adventure as opposed to competition, you know, running as a sort of... ah psychological sort of spiritual experience as opposed to a race. i might I'm going to do an autumn marathon and maybe um i might try and do a fast one. We'll see how i feel, but i'm just I'm just really grateful to run. And it gave me a bit of confidence as well about being able to run long distances um without much training, which is very dangerous, very dangerous state.
00:47:55
UKRunChat
You're a regular runner though, aren't you?
00:47:56
Paul
Yeah, I am a regular runner.
00:47:57
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:47:57
Paul
I mean, I run four times, four to five times a week, every week, all the time. um So then you you don't need to ramp it up for too long to to find your legs for something longer. So I suppose it gave me a bit more confidence and just made me appreciate
Advice for Older Runners
00:48:10
Paul
it.
00:48:10
Paul
Yes,
00:48:11
UKRunChat
So are you running coast to coast then and recording podcasts as as you go?
00:48:14
Paul
we are. Yeah, we are.
00:48:14
UKRunChat
that the idea? That
00:48:15
Paul
we've given that yeah So we'll come up with a lot of content.
00:48:19
UKRunChat
would be fun.
00:48:20
Paul
We won't be recording all the time.
00:48:20
UKRunChat
I'd love to do that though, actually.
00:48:21
Paul
Yeah, it'll be a big fun, yeah.
00:48:22
UKRunChat
it'll be Yeah, that would be really good for Yeah, so have you got any more organised races?
00:48:27
Paul
ah um um No, we're just doing that.
00:48:28
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:48:30
Paul
And then we're doing in the yorkshire Yorkshire Marathon in October, which hopefully I'm going to do my son. um and then And then we might look for a multi-stage. but I'm sure when we've had a few drinks and the tent 105 reassembles at the book launch, there'll be talk of that we talk of ultras somewhere, not if not exotic, somewhere out of the country, yeah some sort of reunion, yeah.
00:48:53
UKRunChat
Yeah. Oh, yeah. Well, we will, we will watch this space then.
00:48:56
Paul
Yeah, of course.
00:48:58
UKRunChat
So your new book running through sand is out 21st of May.
00:49:01
Paul
Yes. Out on 21st May with Bloomsbury, all the bookshops, et cetera, and outlets. And, yeah, it's nice. I'm looking forward to it being out so I can focus on on different things, to be honest. you the whole Books take up a long time, don't they? And it will only be once the launch is done that feel the journey of it's over. But it's, as I say, something that I've really enjoyed working on.
00:49:23
Paul
working on a book gives you the same experiences as doing a good race really. Cause, um, you're really concentrating on the words and the sentences and the rhythm of it. and And then you, and you work really hard on it. And then you walk outside and you're like, it's like you've been emptied in a different way. It's a, it's a similar sort of feeling. We're just looking for things to give ourselves to ultimately have an enjoy and feel, feel good afterwards. Um, without getting, you know with it and it not being alcohol, you know, it just, you know, ah um, So yeah, I really, really enjoyed writing it. Yeah.
00:49:55
UKRunChat
Yeah, it's it's a good way, I guess, to process the emotions of the race as well, isn't it?
00:49:57
Paul
It absolutely is.
00:49:58
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:49:59
Paul
Yeah, to return to it and make some sort of sense of it. Yeah.
00:50:02
UKRunChat
Yeah. ah Well, thanks so much for coming on. Can i just ask for advice for anybody who is thinking of taking on their own personal running challenge later in life?
00:50:11
Paul
Yeah. um yeah what What you mean, advice generally? Just general advice?
00:50:16
UKRunChat
Yeah, like if someone's thinking, oh, can I possibly do an ultra? I might be in my 50s.
00:50:19
Paul
Yeah, I would say, i would say,
00:50:20
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:50:22
Paul
I would say you probably can. And I would say that don't be shy of taking on things that you think you can't do. And, you know, what happens in the training for it is really valuable and the race, you're going to learn a lot about yourself and maybe expand your idea that you've got about yourself, you know, and just sort of, there's always stuff to find out about ourselves and lives, isn't there? And it's ah it's a curious, it's a sort of manifestation of curiosity, isn't it? In a way, it's just like, there's this thing, it's an unknown,
00:50:52
Paul
It's difficult. How am I going to do it? And you just gain a lot by really simple formula, isn't it? Do hard things. fine to Put something hard in the diary.
00:51:01
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:51:04
Paul
Do what you need to do to do it and then do it. It's just nice. It's very simple. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:51:10
UKRunChat
It sounds so simple when you put it like that.
00:51:12
Paul
yeah And, of course, it but and beyond you know, soft surfaces, look after yourself, decent pair of trainers, don't overdo it, never do anything one day that means you won't be able to run the next day or in two days' time and all that kind of thing. you know
Conclusion and Promotions
00:51:26
Paul
what mean? just Just go easy on yourself whilst training whilst training as hard as you can, but just to just take it easy, you know, because as you age, your body does change. So, you know, have to respect that.
00:51:36
UKRunChat
Yeah. Oh, well, thank you, Paul.
00:51:38
Paul
It's been an absolute pleasure.
00:51:39
UKRunChat
Yeah, it's been lovely chatting to you and all the best with Coast to Coast. That'll be a really good adventure.
00:51:43
Paul
Yeah, it'd be good fun. Thank you. Thanks me.
00:51:45
UKRunChat
Yes. Well, you can find Paul's book now wherever books are sold. You can also hear him on the Running Commentary podcast and we'll put all the links in the show notes. Thank you, as always, for listening to the UK Run Chat podcast.