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China Tourism Tuesday Episode 31
9 Plays10 days ago
In today’s episode, we review the 2025 travel trends with our China travel trade and digital teams, sharing insider insights from the front lines of RedNote’s global expansion and predicting the next up-and-coming destinations for Chinese outbound tourism, including rising interest in Russia and the Middle East.
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Transcript
Introduction and Panelist Introduction
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello and welcome to China Tourism Tuesday, discussion of marketing international tourism destinations in China's outbound travel markets. My name is Shaal Baten I am coming to you from Shanghai, China.
00:00:13
Speaker
Hello, this is Amy from Beijing and I am the Trade Relations Manager in Create Consulting.
2025 Tourism Reflection and 2026 Expectations
00:00:22
Speaker
Hi everybody, I'm Michael and I'm coming to you from Catania in Sicily.
00:00:28
Speaker
Cool guys, so we're coming to ah very much to the end of 2025 and I thought it would be a good opportunity to talk about what's been happening in 2025 compared with the year before and then we can also just chat about a little bit about what is our industry insights as to what we expect to see coming in the new
Rednote's Influence in Chinese Tourism
00:00:50
Speaker
of 2026.
00:00:50
Speaker
two thousand and twenty six So, do you want to kick off? Absolutely. Well, I think from my side, you know, I'm kind of knee deep in the Rednode stuff.
00:01:01
Speaker
What really struck me about 2025 and some of the chatter that I'm hearing about 2026 is that Rednode is beginning to become this absolute magnet for attention. Now,
00:01:19
Speaker
This time last year, we were kind of sitting with the Trump ban of TikTok. um And we had the very famous um and sort of very good for foreign creators little episode called the TikTok refugees episode. And that was kind of a hint at that. um Red Note actually has some some pretty serious legs in terms of being at very least, a very leading platform for the China space and possibly also a very leading platform for you know China's um broader push for soft power internationally. now
00:01:56
Speaker
and What we've seen during during the past year on Red Note is you know a big influx and big influx of foreign creators, um a big influx of foreign tourism boards. you know We've seen Moscow joining in. We've seen a number of you know ah regional tourism boards actually start up, which wasn't the case before. Red Note was kind of a a luxury, sort of a fringe, really niche platform that people weren't really paying so much attention to.
00:02:26
Speaker
But 2025 was really the year that Red Note went global. Now, Red Note's DNA is very much in sort of a luxury shopping and reviews sharing platform. So you would use to you know, you would buy an Hermes bag if you had the means and you would kind of then write your review or whatever, you know, whatever luxury ah very wealthy people do and whatever they buy, they would kind of share their insights about everything that that they buy and consume on Red Note. Then as time went by, you know it shifted from just a review and e-commerce website, or platform at least, to being more of an Instagram kind of equivalent for China, being very much, you know again, I keep saying it again and again, but it was and still remains predominantly a a female user base, a first tier user base, and overseas Chinese community sort of user base So disproportionately high spending, um which makes it a very compelling case, obviously, for luxury brands. And you know because outbound travel has become something of a luxury brand in itself these days, um under the current economy, travel brands, in my opinion, absolutely should be looking into
00:03:42
Speaker
getting a presence on Red Note.
China's Strategy with Rednote for Soft Power
00:03:45
Speaker
Now, looking forward to 2026, from what I've seen as part of the, I think it's the 15th five-year plan that was just discussed in November, there was a sort of a sentence that really made me take notice and sit up and take notice, which was that the plan is to use China's telecommunications and internet infrastructure to tell China's story well.
00:04:11
Speaker
um And that kind of has been interpreted, at least from Red Note's side, from the the discussions I've had with some people at Red Note. It's taken to mean that Red Note will have much a much bigger mandate and a much bigger job, actually, to bring in foreign creators, bring in foreign um celebrities even, influencers such that they are resident on Red Note. Now, we've already seen this with with everybody from Adrian Brody, the actor, Aisho Speed, a very sort of up and coming and very very famous influencer, for especially for, I think, for jen Gen Z and younger.
00:04:53
Speaker
A lot of influencers kind of um ah making their home or getting agencies to run their their Red Note profile. So a lot of attention moving there.
00:05:04
Speaker
So I think my first my first sort of forward-looking, don't want to call it a prediction, but a a statement about 2026 is that it's going to be a year in which Red Note really enjoys a lot of priority um in terms of support, in terms of its push to expand overseas. And for that reason, i think that the interface for foreign brands and for foreigners to be able to use Red Note, I think a lot of the gremlins of of actually starting up an account and of um sending out content are going to be ironed out. And it's very interesting. you know ah
00:05:40
Speaker
i think in previous years, if if if you had to tell me that Weibo, for example, was going to become this big ecosystem where foreigners could get on and kind of just freely share their ideas, um I would have said that's not likely to happen because you know the you know norms around around speech and what is acceptable on different platforms um is different for the West and for China.
00:06:04
Speaker
But I think you're beginning to see that Red Note, much like Instagram really, um there's not so much difference about speech norms. All these platforms have their own norms around what is acceptable speech and what isn't.
00:06:17
Speaker
So I think what I'm looking to see is Red Note becoming a big international player um in terms of platforms and that foreign travel brands um absolutely en masse start to build up much more of a Red Note presence.
00:06:33
Speaker
Yeah, I think we can maybe move it on now to the the travel trade aspects. um Amy, would you like to comment a little bit about the past year and hard contrast from 2024?
00:06:45
Speaker
ah Yes. Thank you, Sho, for sharing the insight of the Red Note influences. i very much agree with that travel brand should have an official account on the red note or also ah sort of editorial soft campaigns ah launched on the red note because we've seen people when it comes to decision making process they would like to so typically the middle class to the upper class they would like to search on the Red Note for advices, so for reviews, and for the travel tips as well. So it plays a significant role in people's decision-making
00:07:42
Speaker
process.
Tour Operators and Market Challenges
00:07:43
Speaker
um In terms of the, oh I would like to say there is ah a private reserve ah called Aquila in South Africa, which is two hours driving from Cape Town ah to the private resort. They have ah official accounts at the Red Note. So ah from the ah client's feedback or the where which that they left some comments on the for the
00:08:26
Speaker
people to manage ah the accounts. They ask a lot of questions on the, a lot of details of the private reserve and related travel aspects.
00:08:43
Speaker
So also it also generate direct bookings from the Red Note to the official website. People also may book the accommodation be ah the two operators they know, but they learn the information from the Red Note. And the they may learn the information from the two operators, but they would check the ah reviews and the comments from the Red Note to reinforce their decision making.
00:09:17
Speaker
Amy, let me jump in here quickly and maybe juxtapose the two parts of both the digital of Red Note and then also with the traditional tour operators. I mean, i mean you just actually just came, you just finished a few minutes ago with a meeting with tour operators in in Beijing as you do on a weekly basis. Yes.
00:09:39
Speaker
to to what degree do To what degree do tour operators themselves make make use of Red Note? Or is it a case like, for example, where they would, for as an example, use like Aquila's content and pass it on? Or is it, I mean, how heavily invested are tour operators themselves in the accounts and using Red Note to your thinking?
00:10:05
Speaker
Yeah, I think there are a lot of operators set up account at the Reynolds. Some of tour operators even have several accounts and you they set up ah separate accounts like they do in Visa business. and they're doing a flight ticket booking business. They're doing the soft editorial articles so for the ah promote their package travel packages. So I think they yeah particularly for the tailor-made and
00:10:42
Speaker
The tour operators who ah promote to the high-end luxury packages at Red Note is an essential channel. It's a very important channel for them to promote their product. and And if I can ask generally, what is the state of the strength for weak or weaknesses of tour operators in China out right now? are Are they still important for the business? Are they strong? Are they new ones? Are the old ones, I don't know, any like struggling? i mean, i'm also I'm also hearing, for example, some of the tour operators, for example, that always used to do outbound are also actually doing strong inbound business now. Yes, that's true.
00:11:28
Speaker
But on the outbound side, how how important are they still for this market? ah Yes, there are some theories saying that with the strong power of OTA and the local DMC, also there are a lot of local DMC ah grants to ah um grant ah ah ah to operator, handler, set up the accounts on the social media. So the role of the Chinese outbound travel agency is um the influence and the power is has been decreasing. um it has some
00:12:13
Speaker
It is true in some aspects, but it also forces the operators to um proactively learn more information about
Travel Trends and Destinations among Chinese Travelers
00:12:27
Speaker
destinations. They want to know um the all the details of the resources. They can charter their, differentiate their products. So they they may have lower profits because the price become quite transparent even in some niche destinations. so
00:12:51
Speaker
The profit may be decreasing, but I think that their attitude has been quite active. So they want to ah be familiar with um some local travel information about niche destinations. And they don't want to, they want to be innovative about the product development. I think in that way, it is good.
00:13:22
Speaker
Yeah. and and And tell me, this is going to be a bit of a general one, but um from speaking to the Chinese outbound tour operators, what what are the exciting destinations that that they're talking about at the moment?
00:13:40
Speaker
ah I think from the from generally speaking, what we heard of the feedback from the two operators, European destinations and Japan um has been have been the strongest market for Chinese outbound travel to last month.
00:14:09
Speaker
Nowadays, Europeans do remain strong for outbound travel, for Chinese ah travelers. And then so it is the peak season for the Middle East and Africa now. So there are a lot of operators busy working on the new product in the Middle East because traditionally speaking, Turkey, Dubai, and Abu Dhabi, and Egypt are the strong destinations, are the popular destinations in the region. in the Middle East and Africa region. But people want to be innovative on the product development.
00:14:57
Speaker
So they come up with a package I've heard like Jordan plus Oman plus Saudi Arabia and some tailor-made travel agents ah promote the educational tour to Iraq and Lebanon.
00:15:14
Speaker
And I think it's because speaking of Jordan as a destination, people used to, two operators used to combine Jordan with Israel when what happened now, so they switched the focus. they They linked Jordan with other destinations like Saudi Arabia and Oman and Bahrain, et cetera.
00:15:40
Speaker
Okay, that's really interesting. And then from the ah from the European market, is is it more like ah the the the old popular ones, like ah Southern Europe?
00:15:51
Speaker
Or is it still, like I remember, like about a good two, three years ago, everybody was talking about Eastern Europe the whole time. But I must say, i'm I'm hearing less and less about that nowadays. I get the feeling it's kind of shifting back towards Western Europe. I don't know. Why have I got it wrong?
00:16:12
Speaker
I think that also like Spain, Portugal, traditional traditional destination like UK and Italy remains quite strong and Spain, Portugal ah and Eastern Europe, some destinations is um have been quite popular as well.
00:16:35
Speaker
Yeah, must say, oh well, um like, as I mentioned, I mean, I'm in Sicily right now. And um yeah, there's ah theres there's noticeably quite a lot of Chinese tourists here. And it's absolutely, it's not the traditional old 20, 30 packs group.
00:16:51
Speaker
It's absolutely family and friends cruising around in like small groups of like eight people. Yes. Yeah, noticeably quite a lot of them, widget which is very, very encouraging. i must say, I've absolutely seen more Chinese tourists in southern Europe than I have been in northern Europe over the past year. yeah um So that's that's quite interesting. But but having said that, I haven't been to Spain, where I do believe there are huge, huge numbers going to. and then Yeah, naturally you've got Paris where you always see lots and lots of Chinese
Travel Branding and Rednote's Role
00:17:26
Speaker
tourists. So I suppose those markets are holding pretty well. Charles, I just wanted to ask you though, like just to like double down a little bit on on the red note ah for like the 80-20 rule. I mean, as we were briefly discussing the other day, ah We work with a whole bunch of tourism boards and then hotel and resort groups. I mean, what what what is what is the one piece of advice for getting traction on Red Note? ah if you Can you boil it down to video content or what would it be?
00:18:06
Speaker
Absolutely, I would boil it down to to video content, just that you are discoverable by the algorithm. um so I would say, you know for ah if there's one thing that brands can do to really stand out on Red Note, you don't, I mean, it's obviously great if you can post three times a week, and you have you know full um fully built-out Chinese content guides on how to do this destination, how to you know really um take the best photos for destination X, Y, and Z.
00:18:36
Speaker
The one thing that brands can do if they do nothing else, even if they just post one every three months, is to basically go over the entire social media you know dashboard of their best performing posts on Instagram, the most aspirational kind of video that they have, um the most surprising angle on an experience, something that's truly um that's not generic, that's that's truly, truly unique, that can be found nowhere else in any other destination. If they can just extract that and within three seconds show that in a video format through their Red Note account with a simple post, it doesn't have to be crazy with tags or anything like that. It can it can it can just simply go out onto the algorithm.
00:19:26
Speaker
If you can show. unparalleled uniqueness of experience within three seconds on a video on Red Note, you are bound to get some signal and you are bound to build followers regardless of the frequency at which you post. It's obviously better to post more frequently. The algorithm rewards that. But nothing, nothing, nothing comes close to replacing content that is quickly excellent and quickly unique and quickly blows people's minds. It's the same it's the same logic you would see on Instagram Reels. you have to be You have to not insult your viewers because they are time constrained and are swiping through hundreds of videos every day.
00:20:12
Speaker
and Within three seconds, you need to really get the point home why about why your destination is a must is a master visit. um Chinese people are remarkably resourceful internet users. They will figure out where you are, um who you are, what you do. you can put i mean for for if you want to just get the bare minimum done, you can even just feed your stuff to chat GPT, tell it to translate it to Mandarin, and stick it on your Red Note account. That will cover you know the the first base of you getting um some kind of traction on Red Note such that you know, okay this is a green signal. This is a green light from the China markets. And I can really go further with this. So that's the one thing that you can do um pretty much with with your with your Red Note. Beyond that, you know I would say, um once you've once you found that green light moment and you know, OK, this experience is truly what matters for China about what I have to offer, then you can consider you know setting up up a more frequent account. As Amy mentioned before, you know um Aquila Collection, we get a torrent of of inquiries about bookings, about you know how do we do this, how do we do that, how do i make sure that I can enjoy a holiday in South Africa, doing you know seeing the big five and doing Cape Town and doing my whole thing, and then it really pays to have somebody to pick up on those leads, essentially, to kind of direct the traffic that you get. Because once you do get a viral or even a semi-viral with a couple of hundred likes kind of video, you're going to get inbound inquiries about how do I get there. um And these will be mainly from FIT people.
00:21:55
Speaker
who, well, depending on the on the destination, of course. Then it obviously pays to have you know to have a ah person sitting behind the you know the account on the back end and replying to people. So that's that that's sort of a the yeah pretty much the the main thing that you should do, I suppose.
00:22:15
Speaker
Beyond that, you know i mean, 10 years we were talking about WeChat as it was it was pretty much important for Weibo and WeChat were the two ways in which you really reached the industry and consumers.
00:22:29
Speaker
For now, WeChat is not really, i mean, it anybody could have seen this coming, right? Is that video um and a little bit of text always trumps a lot of text. um People would prefer to watch videos if they can and not read. So WeChat is still quite a text heavy, especially with ah official accounts, if you're looking at WeChat videos.
00:22:54
Speaker
WeChat video is obviously a whole different ball game as well. um Also more algorithm dependence. But that's ah you know that's a whole other other kettle of fish. We can discuss that still. Just for WeChat official accounts, I would say that is something that's important. um But I would say it's like the analogy between you know having TikTok versus having a website. WeChat is your website for China. um And Red Note would be, you could roughly say, equivalent to to your TikTok.
00:23:25
Speaker
So I would say, you know i mean, ah I do know that lot of tourism boards are very um ah very active on their on their official WeChat accounts, which is obviously ah key for having sort of a central place where you're where you're your travel trade relations people and you know your partners in travel trade can can get resources and you know just kind of operate from that website kind of base where everything is available to them.
00:23:55
Speaker
But at the end of the day, you know um ah Red Node is where it's at for consumers for 2C.
Social Media's Impact on Tourism Feedback
00:24:02
Speaker
So you touched on ah you such briefly on a topic there that I also think is worth expanding on a little bit, ah absolutely for both yourself, Shul, and for Amy. And that's about ah the fragility of using social media. um I mean,
00:24:19
Speaker
Clearly, Red Note has kind of empowered many, it's kind of democratized the the digital the digital campaigning and marketing area of destinations, of hotel resort groups, of airlines and things like that. It's made it more accessible for all people who are marketers to to jump in.
00:24:43
Speaker
But what about the flip side of that? What about like the crisis communications, essentially, when when things go wrong? Because now all of a sudden, now more people are aware of what has gone wrong. It spreads pretty darn quickly, way faster than it used to in the traditional PR world that that I used to live in. um And so, yeah, so it's kind of a bit of a double-edged sword. On the one hand, it can really be great for brands and destinations, but on the other hand, it can absolutely crash them to a large extent. I mean, obviously, what happened with between ah Japan and China that was like publicized on TV and things like that. But like, it seems like the news stretches further now and it reaches a lot more people. um I mean, Amy, I'd love to hear, i don't know if you've got any thoughts on that, like um what, what,
00:25:40
Speaker
I'm assuming there have been some crises for destinations and brands. How serious is it and how seriously should people take it?
00:25:54
Speaker
um I think people um most of the people um know how to differentiate. the it it's a If the feedback is genuine or is purely negative personal feelings,
00:26:15
Speaker
Most of the clients could differentiate that now. And we also, I think bad news travels fast. I think wherever I open the Red Note and there is a negative news about the destination, there are always high views. and a lot of comments under the that post. But I think people would like to, many people would like to share their real experiences in to the social media.
2026 Optimism for Chinese Outbound Tourism
00:26:49
Speaker
When I read a negative post about a certain destination like Egypt, or they said they say, yeah, they they have been
00:26:59
Speaker
treated by a shop owner or something like that. And there are some positive feedback underneath saying, yeah, when I traveled to Egypt, I met people who are friendly. I think those things, negative things happened everywhere that you need to be careful, be cautious, blah, blah, blah. So I think it's um o people are freely to share their experience. So it's, um
00:27:31
Speaker
o yeah, the negative news do influences a lot, some people, but I think when you want to make a good decision, people would like to check all the comments they could gather come what up with a decision.
00:27:52
Speaker
You know what's what's really quite scary about this is that if you think about it it's absolutely in the economic interest of a blogger to be able to create outrage and to be able to create um fear with people. because And we don't see this just on on Red Note or Douyin. It's on i mean ge Instagram, Facebook, these places. we We seem to have a bit of a bias as humans towards um there's a threat out there and we need to protect ourselves.
00:28:24
Speaker
And that means money. That means a lot of money for bloggers who can gain. If you can gain 300,000 followers in a week, by um putting out a story about you perhaps potentially getting kidnapped or blackmailed or scammed or whatever, then um you you can – that translates into a lot of money for you as a creator. Obviously, that money then will be lost by the the the tourism industry of that country. I wouldn't call it a wealth transfer. But that is what is what the effect is ultimately, is that the bloggers get wealthy and the tourism industries of the country lose out.
00:29:07
Speaker
That's certainly true. Yes. what that I read a Highview post about Jordan, I think several months ago. and this blogger posted as they said Jordan is expensive destination and somewhere is very disappointing but underneath the post the comments a lot of comments say you post this for your personal interests because we read
00:29:38
Speaker
your previous post, you always say negative things. lot of comments come from the travelers who had been to Jordan. So they say Jordan is friendly. It's not what you said in the post. It's not always like what you said in the post. So I think people would differentiate that.
00:30:03
Speaker
They are catching on. They are making what information they should take into
00:30:10
Speaker
Yep. Absolutely. Yeah. And then just generally, i mean, probably something I should have begun with in the beginning. i mean, you guys are sitting in Shanghai and Beijing. um how how How do you see the economic...
00:30:25
Speaker
economy of China going. I mean, the last year was a bit of a slag of outbound tourism due to the economy. a I personally remain optimistic that things will improve and improve and improve. I don't think China's ever proven me wrong before.
Economic Factors Influencing Travel
00:30:45
Speaker
But I would like to hear from your guys' point of view.
00:30:51
Speaker
I think the yeah the economic situation has been ah ah bits um ah I think I don't think it's ah quite ideal during in 2025 from the operator perspective, because the middle class is a number of middle class is shrinking and some people got um being lost their jobs and people would like to save more money.
00:31:30
Speaker
in the future and for the future, ah they have less spending on the traveling products. But speaking of 2026, I think from the tour operator perspective, they are optimistic about the what's coming next year.
00:31:53
Speaker
ah So for the top high-end clients, they they still traveling and they have the good budget for the traveling products that remains almost unchanged.
00:32:12
Speaker
so is So the two operators, just that they need to work out on different product packages to target less budget middle class people. or For example, people that have the budget to travel to South Africa, but the the local logistics price also increased. So they would change ah the destination to like the Southeast Asia and to save some money.
00:32:47
Speaker
Another angle, travel demand still there. Sorry, guys. Another angle I'd just like to add is, i don't know if you guys saw the news, but um big tech companies in China have announced pay raises across the board. So JD.com, 70% year on year increase in spending. ByteDance, bonus pools, 35% up. Manufacturing up, BYD.
00:33:16
Speaker
all the big ah tech companies are raising pay and bonuses. um One aspect of it is to compete for talent, but also there's a broader push to kind of increase household income and to stimulate domestic consumption.
00:33:32
Speaker
so that's a little bit of piece of news. You know, the the the other big factor, I think, and this is this is from from what i've I've just read and and heard through the grapevine, is you know where the RMB ah you know valuation or or or ah devaluation, that is sort of another big factor to keep in mind. you know It seems like from a policy point of view, um you know the central government will keep the RMB undervalued because the RMB is very much undervalued. um If the RMB were to trade at its actual value, i so I suspect strongly that Chinese outbound travel would see a massive boom because it would just become so much cheaper to you know travel to Europe and to consume imported goods.
00:34:18
Speaker
ah Whether or not that's going to happen, I don't think that's really in the interest of of you know ah China's manufacturing strategy to to let the RMB become more valuable over time. It probably will stay undervalued for for a while.
00:34:37
Speaker
But that's always you know something to keep in mind, that that's something waiting in the wings, um that should the RMB be allowed to go to its full you know value, um Chinese outbound travel will most likely see a massive boom and a massive increase in domestic spending as well.
Aging Populations and Educational Travel Opportunities
00:34:56
Speaker
Yeah, totally. And then also, i mean, one area that I like to look at ah generally globally, but also China, is demographics. I mean, people talk about aging societies and things like that. It's actually quite interesting. I read a really interesting an analytical report the other day comparing all countries according to demographic ages. And i mean I was quite surprised to read that because you always hear so much about China and and also especially Japan's aging societies.
00:35:31
Speaker
But Europe, they they're pretty much in the same group. um There's no huge difference there. and and But I also find it interesting that like from a tourism perspective, if if this is the the reality, well, then again, you need the onus lies on you if you're a hotel and resort group specifically kind of thing. to to cater for for a more aging demographic and things like that. So I think there's still immense opportunity in that area. And like all and if you add in economic factors, and I i mean i can see that some
00:36:17
Speaker
tourism boards in certain countries have have found the China market less appealing over the last two two, three years. And I do question how much of that is logically, rationally based. I do question how much is based on politics, geopolitical perceptions and things like that. I mean, I would love it if you guys would argue with me, but possibly not. Maybe I'm just singing to the choir here. But I do get the feeling that the at the very, very least, China's got at least a good 20 years, at least 20 years of of of a strong Chinese outbound tourism market. And and sure, that that that's a long time still, and I think even that is ah extremely conservative.
00:37:09
Speaker
Yes. Speaking of the older people traveling China, and and the interesting thing is ah I met, um and they are not um typical to operator. and they are ah educational. They position them as an educational and entertaining company for other people. They provide the online courses. ah The company, I think, have at least 300 staffs.
00:37:39
Speaker
They position them. Yeah, they provide the online courses like seeing course, ah photography course, and like how to make the flowers into the bottle and into the vans fast.
00:37:58
Speaker
So all those, um they they do the courses based on people's interests. So they started getting to the outbound market. this year So they have a team of travel consultants in charge of product development. um This year they had, to I think, three, a big group, like 60 people, to go to Vienna ah to have a performance in the
00:38:31
Speaker
the Golden oh Hall is a called, where we yeah, they hold the a new new year performance annually.
00:38:42
Speaker
And ah yeah, they, in the February they have 60 people. They, so they could perform on the stage in the Golden Hall. ah And the price of the,
00:38:55
Speaker
travel product is not cheap at all. So it's um it' become a trend. So the elderly people would like to um make them ah to oh i how to how I put it. So they they they would like to show themselves to the ah friends and the They are still strong and they asked you they they can do whatever they want. They have this brilliant moments of life even they get retired.
Regional Predictions for Tourism Success
00:39:42
Speaker
Okay, so that's, I think we've chatted quite a bit about 2025. Let's maybe end off with a little bit of for 2026. And here I'd like to play a little bit of a mental game between yourself, Amy, talking from a tour operator's perspective, and you, Charles, speaking from a digital social media perspective.
00:40:09
Speaker
So let's see. Northeast Asia for 2026, which do you think, what do you guys think is going to be the winner or the losers? Japan, Korea, who do you think is going to be strong 2026 Northeast Asia? Korea, South Korea.
00:40:29
Speaker
northeast asia korea south korea We both agreed on that one? Yeah, not anything but Japan. Okay, cool. Moving on. Southeast Asia.
00:40:46
Speaker
Winners and losers. The winner is Malaysia, I guess, at this stage. Okay. You think Thailand's going to make a comeback?
00:40:57
Speaker
Yeah, definitely. Yep.
00:41:01
Speaker
I also get a good vibe about Malaysia. It's just um it's just my sense. you know I think Thailand will be a close second. What about Vietnam? Again, politically difficult. um And ah just anecdotally, from what i from what I hear from friends in Shanghai who have been to Vietnam, is there's just a lot of potential for PR pr issues. i i get the I get a bad feeling about potential PR issues popping up around Vietnam. It just seems like it's ah it's a ripe environment for that.
00:41:36
Speaker
Okay. 2026 Oceana. So that'd be like Australia, New Zealand, Fiji. What do you guys think?
00:41:44
Speaker
Australia, New Zealand. Both good? Both strong? good Yeah. yeah Okay. South Asia, India, Bangladesh, these places.
00:42:00
Speaker
India. Yeah, I think with the simplification of the visa, yeah, India can be quite good potential destination for the Chinese travelers. But I heard that the visa has not been as easy as what's that? What about Pakistan?
00:42:27
Speaker
No. More for FIT travelers. Okay. Let's do a more difficult one where there's actually quite a lot of competition. The Middle East, starting off with you, Amy. Winners and losers.
00:42:41
Speaker
or Or just winners. I think Jordan yeah will be that a lot of increase. We will have good potential for increasing in the volume of travelers for next year.
00:42:57
Speaker
what That's what we heard from the two operators feedback. Anyone else? The Gulf countries. Gulf countries. What about Saudi?
00:43:12
Speaker
Yeah. they yeah they I think they are doing quite good. They have been doing quite good. Okay, cool. Let's move on to Eastern Europe. Charles, let's begin with you.
00:43:25
Speaker
What's your gut feeling for Eastern Europe? Well, just looking at red note data, I would say you know Russia is due for probably quite a good run. um I think that, you know, especially now with the New Year's holidays coming up, I am feeling quite good about Russia, just because we've seen towards, you know, as winter kind of breaks um through ah in Eastern China around December um and Northern China, there's begun to be quite a lot of trending snow content and real wintry kind of content. um I would put my money on Russia for sure.
00:44:01
Speaker
Okay.
00:44:04
Speaker
Amy, what do you reckon for Eastern Europe?
00:44:09
Speaker
Hungary? Yeah. People talking about it in the trade industry? and' Talking about Hungary? yeah I think there are Hungary and Poland.
00:44:24
Speaker
OK. Go Poland. yeah Good stuff. Okay. Western Europe. Boring, but let's talk it. Who do you think is going to be the new winners for Western Europe?
00:44:46
Speaker
No? They're always winners. Oh yeah? You think that just the whole whole Western in Europe is going to kind of get back to where it was?
00:45:00
Speaker
Belgium. Yes. Belgium. I also think that, I think they're going to be surprising. I think absolutely the traditionals, Italy, France, Spain, absolutely no doubt about them. But I, but I think someone is to be punching more as Belgium.
00:45:19
Speaker
Okay. Africa. Where do you guys think Africa is going to go? So, sholy you start with ah from a red note perspective. What do you reckon?
00:45:30
Speaker
Red note perspective, it looks pretty bleak for South Africa, but I want to say South Africa because the visa has been fixed finally, ah you know, touch wood. But, ah you know, the best predictor of the future is everything that's happened in the past. so If you want me to vote with my heart, I would say South Africa is going to completely blow everyone out of the water. But if you want me to vote with my brain, i would say because you know East Africa has performed so well historically, it's going to keep crushing it. i would say Tanzania, Kenya, ah Uganda, Rwanda, probably probably going to keep going from strength to strength, probably a marginal bump for South Africa.
00:46:16
Speaker
um as the visa issues probably ah take ah you know, hopefully take a significant upswing. But, you know, um South African destinations are still very much invested in ah the European and American markets, so might not be as fully dialed into um the China market as as Eastern Africa is. So yeah, we might see a slight bump in South Africa, but I would still say, yeah, East Africa is where it's at for Africa.
Outlook for the American Hemisphere on Rednote
00:46:46
Speaker
And you, Amy, what do you reckon? North Africa, Morocco and the Egypt. Does that count? Absolutely. Absolutely, yes. Yeah, I think yeah Egypt has been doing incredibly well since um ah the big museum opened up.
00:47:10
Speaker
Yeah, and Morocco is just crushing it. Yeah, Morocco as well. Absolutely crushing it, yeah. I think they're just also going to continue from strength to strength. What I find interesting is that nobody's talking about West Africa, which is unfortunate, but is what it is. Okay, cool.
00:47:29
Speaker
North America. Ta-da! And let's remember that's not only America, that's also Canada and Mexico. Yeah.
00:47:40
Speaker
What do you guys reckon? I don't know. It's a difficult question. Yeah, that's a very tough question. I mean, like, I'm also reading, sure, I mean, in preparation for today's podcast, I was doing a bit of research, and some people are claiming that ah the United States, America, is is still very high up ah for the Chinese travelers.
00:48:08
Speaker
um But it just doesn't compute with my brain. um doesn't particularly make sense. I don't know. Have have I got it wrong? Is there still very strong interest in traveling to America?
00:48:25
Speaker
I can answer that from the side of Red Note. No. Nothing. I don't want to sound dramatic, but I kind of i scroll through the top the top trending travel topics for Red Note.
00:48:38
Speaker
The States just and isn't in there. I mean, it's snow, you know it snows Russia, it's Spain, um it's been you know Japan until the the recent fallout.
00:48:50
Speaker
um It's been, I think even Australia had a quick moment. What else was there? There was, I think, Sweden and Switzerland, one of the two. They're both of the same character in Chinese, so I keep forgetting which one. London at a moment. um But yeah, ah the the the the American hemisphere, I would say, jeez, there's nothing to suggest that Red Note is kind of seeing its heartstrings pulled in that direction.
00:49:20
Speaker
But, Amy, you can you can kind of. Let us know what you're hearing from the travel side, the trade side. I heard, ah it's so I think it's according to the two operators, it's a different story. It's a different feedback generated. Some people, some two operators who ah has been strong, has got to a lot of ah clients base who are interested in traveling to North Korea.
00:49:55
Speaker
america they yeah they They see it still as a strong market, but from the some tailor-made travel agents, it has not been as strong as it used to be.
00:50:13
Speaker
Okay. Well, and then lastly, Latin America, South America. Amy, what what would what are the tour operators saying? what What's exciting?
00:50:24
Speaker
Where are they going for South America 2026?
00:50:28
Speaker
uh i think it for uh for the business travelers uh brazil is the key destination for south america and from the ledger travel point of view because they go to the South Pole very trendy in China for several years, has remained trendy, I think, for the next couple of years. So when people traveling to the South Pole, they would like to visit the neighboring countries like Argentina, p Peru, and Chile, Bolliouia.
00:51:08
Speaker
So i ate there will be a good increase for those destinations. Any hints on Red Note, Charles?
00:51:19
Speaker
Well, Latin America, again, you know, American hemisphere is pretty empty. Yeah, I mean, if I had to kind of guess at which country has the best brand power, it's not Argentina, it's not Chile, it's probably Brazil.
00:51:37
Speaker
ah Because Red Note is so sensitive to soft power, you know, to um sort of lifestyle image messaging. ah Yeah, Central America is a bit of a mess. So there's a lot of bad ah bad of ah PR perceptions around geopolitics right now with Central America. Yeah,
00:51:58
Speaker
yeah I would have to go with Brazil. it It probably holds the strongest soft power position for Red Note right now. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, i'm still I'm still leaning towards Peru, Ecuador.
00:52:13
Speaker
I think they've done pretty good jobs. come but But the thing is Ecuador, they used to be visa-free, but they changed their visa policy. People must apply the visa. Since last year, I think that creates challenges for the two operators.
00:52:35
Speaker
Yeah, that's certainly not going to help. Yeah, goodness gracious. Cool. And then overall, I mean, last sense, I mean, for 2026, I think it's going to be a good year for Chinese outbound tourism. I think we really have... moved way beyond the pandemic times and we had a bit of a sluggish economy but I think 2026 is going to shape out to be a really exciting and yeah interesting year for Chinese outbound tourism so thank you everybody and Charles for your time thank you well thanks guys happy new year
00:53:19
Speaker
Happy New Year to everyone, to our listeners. Thank you to all of our listeners for sticking with us for China Tourism Tuesday in 2025. As always, if you have any questions, you can send us an email at marketingandcconsulting.com.cn you can find us on LinkedIn by searching Create Consulting.
00:53:36
Speaker
We look forward to hearing from