Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
China Tourism Tuesday Episode 26
18 Plays30 days ago
In this week’s episode, we sit down with Julia Louw, Acting Chief Tourism Officer at Wesgro, to discuss the Western Cape’s ambitious push to grow its footprint in the China market. Julia shares insights into how Cape Town and the Western Cape are positioning themselves amid rising continental competition, and what South Africa is doing to build a strong, sustainable share of China’s outbound travel. Tune in to hear how the region aims to replicate its success in the North American, European, and GCC markets - and what’s next for the Western Cape of South Africa in Asia.
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Guest Introduction
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello and welcome to China Tourism Tuesday, discussion of marketing international tourism destinations in the outbound Chinese tourism market. Today we have a very special guest with us today, Julia Loh, the Acting Chief Tourism Officer at Wesgro, the South African Western Cape Provinces Tourism and Investment Promotion Bureau.
00:00:20
Speaker
Julia, thank you so much for joining us here on the podcast today.
Wesgro's Role and China as a Priority Market
00:00:24
Speaker
Just to begin, i was wondering if you could just give our listeners a brief overview um of what Westgro's role is and specifically how that pertains to the China outbound tourism and also maybe a bit of investment space.
00:00:39
Speaker
Morning, absolutely. ah Thank you, Charles and Michael, for the opportunity, and it's lovely to be here today. um So as you said, Westgro is the tourism trade and investment promotions agency for Cape Town and the Western Cape.
00:00:54
Speaker
Our mandate is to attract buyers, investors and tourists to the Western Cape and then in turn obviously take the Western Cape to the world. Our strategy is always South Africa first.
00:01:05
Speaker
and then the Western Cape follows.
Cape Town's Market Reliance and Emerging Market Potential
00:01:07
Speaker
From the China market perspective, um we've identified China as one of our priority new markets as part of our growth for job strategy, where the province is wanting to double its tourism figures by 2035.
00:01:22
Speaker
um We aim as the agency, obviously alongside our partners, to add a million additional tourists or international arrivals over the next five years. So a big job at hand, Charles, but um luckily we at Westrow, you know, we have a lot of private-public partners um with our various strategic projects, which I'm sure we'll come to later on um in the show.
00:01:42
Speaker
But yes, China is a very important market to us, so excited to have this conversation today.
Targeting Emerging Markets and Economic Impact
00:01:48
Speaker
Absolutely. And now I i kind of want double click on Cape Town and the Western Cape since, you know, the services sector is such an important employer in the province.
00:01:57
Speaker
And then within that services sector, tourism is obviously a massive driver. yeah Yet at the same time, you know, with the Western and Cape and Cape Town, I think we can all attest to is very much an American and EU heavy market.
00:02:11
Speaker
um Could you talk to us a little bit about how you see um different scenarios for how that could change and specifically how that could be changing in favor of emerging markets like, you know, India, China, Brazil, even Russia? Yeah, so you're very correct there, Shah. We've always been heavily reliant on, you know, the North Americas, the the EU markets of the world. And again, we must never forget those markets because those are i established markets and they give us, you know, ah a constant kind of stream of tourism throughout the year.
00:02:46
Speaker
What's interesting for us is the agency from the emerging markets perspective is obviously they have a very heavy baseline of middle income new travelers per
Future-Focused Strategies in Tourism
00:02:56
Speaker
se. I mean, you mentioned um India.
00:02:59
Speaker
I think India has 300 million middle class citizens, you know, if we could just tap into 1% of that, we would be a very happy agency. So, and to go back to your point about tourism being a sector service, you know,
00:03:15
Speaker
Tourism contributes 10% of the GDP to the Western Cape. It's one of the quickest enablers from a job creation sector because you can the the hospitality chain is such a massive, massive chain, you know from the restaurants to the hotels to the cleaning services to the food and beverages to the wine industry. I mean, the value chain of tourism goes so deep, so it's got such a far reach.
00:03:38
Speaker
So it it really is important for us, Charles, and we we can't always hang our hat on on certain markets. We have to start looking elsewhere. I mean, we say as an agent we mean agency we want to be future fit and future focused, you know, and you have to be looking ahead. And if we're not looking five to ten years ahead, we're only going to be shooting ourselves in the foot. So that's why it's so important for us to be looking to these emerging markets like China and India.
00:04:04
Speaker
Of course.
Insights from ITB Shanghai and Changing Chinese Traveler Trends
00:04:05
Speaker
ah Just a quick question. I you know i saw Wesgrove is very active in terms of you know within your guys' um ability, what you guys can do, you you guys fully do. do So um earlier this year, I saw Wesgrove at um ITB in Shanghai. Really great to have you guys here.
00:04:22
Speaker
I was wondering if you could maybe give us your impressions of the of the China market and specifically what it is what is the story that we should be telling China, ah just from your point of view and from what you could take away when we talk about the Western Cape and Cape Town here in China.
00:04:39
Speaker
So it was lovely to be at ITB Shanghai and it was great to have that show up and running again. And you know what really resonated with me when we were there, Shal, it was the The Chinese traveler has definitely changed from pre-pandemic, and we also need to be mindful of the fact that the the you know the Chinese population, they were locked up for far longer than we were you know from ah from the rest of the world perspective because the the lockdowns were much longer.
00:05:05
Speaker
But what really stood out for me was there was this strong affinity for true immersive cultural experiences and true connectivity. I mean, I remember being at the South African Tourism Stand when the dancers were there and it was all this noise and interaction. But that there was this feeling that people really wanted to immerse and experience and feel, you know.
00:05:28
Speaker
I think the traveler pre-pandemic where it was just... taking a picture and moving on, you know, the and we get it from the insights as well that we obviously pull from various data sets. the The Chinese traveler now is no longer, you know, big group travelers with somebody with a flag at the front of the group.
00:05:44
Speaker
They are more individualized. They are seeking unique experiences and they're looking for culture and heritage, you know, the same with the Indian traveler as well, but they they're really wanting those experiences and you know, as ah the Western Cape, we can tick all those boxes perfectly just because of the the culture, the heritage, our UNESCO heritage sites. We've got so many things on offer. So that is what really stood out for me for the traveller is they've become more individualised and they are seeking those real, true immersive experiences. And for a destination like South Africa where community and people are our biggest USP, I really think we need to harness that because there's great power there.
Strategies to Attract Chinese Tourists
00:06:26
Speaker
um Julia, ah very broadly speaking, um can you give us a bit of an idea of um what is Westgrove's plans for the China market? Are there any benchmarks or any targets?
00:06:38
Speaker
um And very broadly speaking, what what actions is Westgrove taking to attract more Chinese tourists ah to the Western Cape? ah Great question. Thanks, Michael. So we are doing a lot in that space at the moment. um And again, it's on the back of the the growth for jobs strategy. So we've just commissioned, well, we're in the process of commissioning a research piece on doubling tourism, um that piece obviously across the agency. But how do we speak to this market? How do we activate this market? Because the Chinese market is very different. I mean, we know that this market
00:07:13
Speaker
operates on super apps and if you're not meeting them where they are as a traveler, you know, you're wasting your time completely. So we're hoping on the back of this research that we will be able to understand the market, we'll be able to understand how to speak to that market specifically,
00:07:28
Speaker
And then obviously we have many barriers and enablers like that we need to speak to, right, Michael? I mean, we know that airlift is an issue. We know that visa facilitation is an issue. I don't want to use the word issue. Perhaps that's the wrong thing. You know, these are the barriers. We know that the Department of Home Affairs has worked with the Trusted Tour Operator System.
00:07:45
Speaker
We can already see that since that system was launched that I believe 25,000-odd visas have already been processed through that system. There's now the Electronic Travel Authorization System coming up.
00:07:57
Speaker
You know, our team at Air Access is constantly engaging with the various airlines to unlock that direct airlift, which will be crucial for the agency in order to get that traveler.
00:08:09
Speaker
And then again, what is Westgrove doing? You know, what do we always do? We go in market, we ensure that we meet the trade where they are because the trade are whom we need to be working with. We then ensure that we package and we create toolkits and itineraries that needs to speak to the traveller. So we've identified culture and heritage as being one of the key enablers for this market.
00:08:30
Speaker
We work with hosting influencers and buyers. We just worked with south African tourism and hosting a ah big movie star here. Excuse me, but I can't pronounce his name. um And just the traction that we're getting through that destination marketing has been incredible. so Those are just did a few of the things at the moment that we're doing, Michael. But as you can see, I mean, we've already been in market four times this year.
00:08:51
Speaker
you know um we' just finished up quarter two for us as the agency. So we're we're doing a hell of a lot in this market. Yeah, absolutely. i mean, very, very ah noticeable and very public work going on. um I mean, ah Julia, I mean, and because you've been traveling to China quite a bit and your colleagues have also been traveling a lot to China, um what do you sincerely see as the three biggest challenges for success?
Engaging Chinese Travelers and Marketing Strategies
00:09:20
Speaker
Sure, three challenges for success. um So i think historically we maybe would have said language is a barrier, right? But the more I travel into China, the more I see that yeah the man on the street is becoming more kind of, um you know, English is becoming more of a spoken language.
00:09:39
Speaker
um So I don't think that that is is a barrier any longer. i think it's the the super app and meeting the traveler where they're at. I really think that that is going to be something that the industry has to pull together.
00:09:52
Speaker
Because, I mean, if you think of your Alipay or the Red Note of the duan or the or the various ways that you speak to the Chinese traveler and how they... how they do everything off their phone. You know, if you're not meeting them there, then you're not going to be seen at all. So I think we really need to think as an industry, how are we going to do that and how are we going to meet them where they are?
00:10:13
Speaker
and That would be one of them. i think that we we need to understand that, you know, this is such a massive market, but you can't do a spray and pray approach. You know, you have to,
00:10:25
Speaker
Really focusing on the the tier one cities, you know, so Beijing, Shanghai, Gonzo, and you need to go in hard and you need to, you know, partner either with big airline groups or partner with hotel groups. So we can also then use their platforms to maximize, you know, where we act.
00:10:42
Speaker
And then we we obviously have business events um as well at MICE. I know that the MICE business is slowly starting to increase out of China. But there is a gap from a business events perspective, and I don't think there's any big associations in China as of yet, um again, from the Convention Bureau side of things. So, I mean, for me now, those would be the three kind of areas where we we should be focusing on. Yeah. Yeah.
00:11:05
Speaker
And I mean, just ah furthermore, so one one thing I've
Success Through Private-Public Partnerships
00:11:09
Speaker
absolutely noticed in in the Chinese outbound tourism market, especially from a marketing perspective from Southern Africa, africa so ah naturally South Africa tourism does a lot of work in the China market. Westgro does a lot of work in the China market.
00:11:24
Speaker
There's also quite a few private actors that that are doing quite a lot of work also. um but But then at the same time, in other parts of Africa, you don't necessarily see all um African countries really proactively promoting themselves in China, even in South Africa. So, for example, you'll have Westbrook working pretty hard. but But I get the feeling that at least some of the South African provinces don't really um put much focus or budget into it.
00:11:55
Speaker
And then absolutely not not all private enterprises are doing the same. um so So some are some are taking the the China market quite seriously. Some maybe due to budget limitations cannot. I'm not sure what it is.
00:12:09
Speaker
so So how does it also work with Wesco in terms of cooperation? Do you cooperate with private partners? And and um ah naturally you do work with SA Tourism? Tell us a little bit more about your like partnership approaches.
00:12:22
Speaker
and Thanks, Michael. So Westgrove, first and foremost, we're all about the private-public partnerships because that is how we have such wonderful success stories. And it really, it's a golden thread that runs through the agency.
00:12:35
Speaker
um To give you an example, I mean, we we spoke about air access. So air access is a private-public partnership together with a few private sector partners. And then obviously I'm within Westgrove and that's to attract direct airlift into the destination.
00:12:50
Speaker
mean, I know our exports and trade team went into China recently together with Standard Bank, you know, again, private-public partnership. So we go out and we find those private partners that obviously want to either take their business into China or return. Obviously, for us, the airlines, we need to have a tourism business case as well as an export-import business case, you know. So we work together with the the trade and the export partners together.
00:13:16
Speaker
in order to unlock and open those barriers. So from an export trade perspective, the agency also has something called Made in the Cape. um So Made in the Cape is all about products that are destination of origin of the Western Cape.
00:13:30
Speaker
And we look at connecting those exporters with international buyers, and that's through a platform called the Cape Trade Portal. And again, when we went into market with Standard Bank,
00:13:41
Speaker
It was through taking the product into China, you know, so, and that's all through private public partnership, Michael. so it's, it's a no brainer, you know, because everybody wins the destination wins the business wins, you know, it unlocks opportunity. It's economic impact. It's job creation. It's all those lovely words that we, you know, that make us get up every morning and go to work. You know, it's the, it's the why we do what we do and we could not do it without private public partnerships.
00:14:11
Speaker
Julia, I just want to ask you a question, something that we've picked up a little bit um in our own research on Red Note. I don't know if you have seen these stats yet, but I just want to kind of get your take on this. So we've kind of run the numbers a bit on how, umm I'm not sure if you know about Red Note. do.
00:14:30
Speaker
It's on China's Instagram. On red notes, it seems like Eastern African nations, this is not mainly Kenya and Tanzania, have a stronger branding position than South Africa. And what was strange to me to see was that they even hold um stronger branding positioning in terms of safaris.
Competitive Landscape in African Tourism
00:14:51
Speaker
um South Africa falls quite far behind. Now, since um you know Eastern Africa stands so strong on Red Note, how should we think as practitioners of South African tourism in the industry on how to position South Africa's truly unique selling points on an app like Red Note, which is very much, you know as you said, first-tier cities, um fairly high disposable income, luxury travelers.
00:15:22
Speaker
Where do we begin with with changing the narrative on this? Yeah, I do agree with you, Shal. And this this this started during the the pandemic already when Kenya and Tanzania started doing a lot of active um marketing on those various platforms.
00:15:38
Speaker
And we know that they are one of our key competitors. And they also obviously unlocked Visa Free. I stand to be corrected, but I remember them. Maybe, Michael, I can look to you to help me. But I do remember them.
00:15:50
Speaker
and locking China from a visa free perspective. So that also then assisted to open this market for them. this is what I was chatting about earlier, Sharl, you know, as practitioners, as promotions, as destination promotion agencies, you know, we we have to be meeting the traveler where the traveler is at and the traveler is on red note. So together with South African tourism, you know, and us as the provincial authorities, we have to collectively start meeting that traveler where they're at.
00:16:18
Speaker
So, I mean, as the agency, we are in the process of looking for ah partner to do a campaign into China. And obviously we're speaking with Lisa and the team at South African Tourism. We're trying to understand the market. We're trying to understand where we can put our one rand so we can really maximize it.
00:16:36
Speaker
And you know we are a little bit behind because our competitors, you know Kenya, Tanzania, Egypt, Senegal, Morocco, you know they're all meeting the Chinese traveller where they're at already. So we have a lot of work to do there and it's all in in progress at the moment, Shol.
00:16:53
Speaker
um And then, Julia, I would just like to ah just touch on little bit on, so so assuming that ah all plans go according to plan and ah we become more successful in sort attracting more and more Chinese
Tourism Patterns: One-Time vs Repeat Visits
00:17:06
Speaker
tourists.
00:17:06
Speaker
um I mean, the the one thing that that is what I feel is a bit of a, a chat sorry an opportunity and a threat at the same time with the China outbound market is is that they seem to be, a lot of the travelers seem to be having like a kind of like ah a bucket list and they want to see still nevertheless as many countries as possible ah which reduces um return travel.
00:17:33
Speaker
um I mean, the other more traditional source markets for the Western Cape, like Europe and more the last few years, ah United States. um Can you give us a bit of an idea of um for non-Chinese markets? What does it look like in terms of return customers? Do people come to the Cape? Are they happy? Do they come back?
00:17:57
Speaker
ah Do they not come back? um Yeah, I would just like to get a bit of an understanding around that. Yeah, so our traditional markets, um Michael, your Germany, UK, Netherlands, um and now North America slowly starting to to um lift up as well.
00:18:15
Speaker
They are very much return or repeated travelers, what we call them. So these are the guys that come every year, you know, or every second or third year, the The swallows, you know, it's a big German and UK trend as well. But if you just look at our average length of stay, I think the last time we checked it was 12.8 days or somewhere they were there or thereabouts.
00:18:37
Speaker
And that's just in the Western Cape, right? So these are the guys that are coming back every year because, and that's also good for us from a regional spread perspective because they may be just coming to Cape Town for a few days, but then they're heading out into the regions, which is really, you know, where the rubber hits the road and where we where you see the biggest impact. um So...
00:18:59
Speaker
Yeah, we're definitely seeing it, but also from a baseline perspective for China, you know, you've got such a massive population. So even if we don't get those repeaters as of yet, and they're just coming from their bucket list, you're working with a far bigger baseline um in order to have impact.
00:19:13
Speaker
Yeah. So, Julia, what what I really enjoyed about what you were saying earlier about how, when you were at ITB China, that you also absolutely noticed that there was a change in the Chinese tourist patterns, that it's not anymore this, like, massive groups of the
Responsible Tourism and Its Benefits
00:19:28
Speaker
person with the flag. and that now it's more ah bespoke, it's more smaller groups and things like that.
00:19:34
Speaker
And i was I was really happy that that you pointed that out um from the point of view that, and this is something I wanted to ask your opinion on. um I mean, in Europe now at the moment, there's quite a lot of talk about over-tourism.
00:19:50
Speaker
um And I mean, i've I've definitely got my opinions on what is the cause of over-tourism in Europe. I think it's the Europeans themselves. I think it's due to very expensive long-haul flight costs that has become unaffordable.
00:20:07
Speaker
um But now I also feel that because of the over-tourism debates going on at the moment, a number of ah country tourism boards are proactively not going off to the Chinese market anymore because they're really scared of over tourism. And then they're scared of like mass numbers of Chinese tourists or Indian tourists coming in for that matter.
00:20:30
Speaker
um I mean, yeah, we where does ah the Western Cape stand on the whole over tourism debate and and and how do you how do you guys feel about it? ah I mean, I'm assuming that the the situation is slightly different from the Western Cape than from Europe.
00:20:47
Speaker
That's great question, Michael. um to be really frank, I don't think we can even talk about over-tourism as South Africa as a destination. I mean, the numbers that are reaching Europe, you know, we're talking 20, 30 million arrivals into Spain over season.
00:21:03
Speaker
i mean, Morocco, Egypt, between 20 and 30 million arrivals, you know. We're talking between 2.3 and 3 million arrivals, you know, with trying to double our tourism to over three 2035.
00:21:16
Speaker
I mean, over-tourism is is not something that we as as South Africa, as a destination, can even discuss. I mean, we have a massive unemployment issue. We have, you know, so much to offer. We can still accommodate so many more tourists per se, right, as a region. So for us, the word over-tourism is something that we do not even think about. We need to think about responsible tourism, right? Right.
00:21:40
Speaker
And responsible tourism is what they like to call a residence out approach, right? So if you have a happy resident, your resident should understand the benefits and the power of tour tourism. That is why it is so important to message corrective correctly through to the small little torpies, towns and villages around the positive impact that tourism can have on a destination. And in a country that has got such an unemployment problem, you know, we we need to be creating jobs.
00:22:09
Speaker
And if tourism... is going to create jobs. And actually, that is what we need to be aiming for. But we need to ensure that we message it correctly, that we package it correctly, and that we also just take the the residents or the people along on the journey, you know. And to your point, think a lot of the European cities have not done it correctly. You know, they they they haven't taken their residents along necessarily on the journey. And um so us as Westgrove, we are going for these new markets, you know, because they have got massive potential for the destination. We still have a lot of room for growth as the destination. So the two work hand in hand. It's just about how do you proactively manage your destination in a way that benefits your residents and in turn also benefits your tourists because then you create an ecosystem which works for everybody. So hope I've answered your question correctly. But
00:23:02
Speaker
We can't even speak about over-tourism. We don't get nearly the numbers that that Europe is looking at. You know, if we were getting those numbers, gosh, we'd be very happy, you know, but we're not. We're we're way down that baseline. So we have a lot of work to do.
00:23:15
Speaker
Yeah. And ah so my last comment and question on this is I see it's fairly interesting ah and informative that next year the Kruger National Park turns 100 years old.
Promoting Lesser-Known Regions Through Social Media
00:23:26
Speaker
Wow, I didn't even know that. Which I think is quite an achievement, quite an ah a milestone. It also shows that this is something that has been in the back of South Africans' minds for quite some time, that being conservation.
00:23:41
Speaker
um and and and yeah And I was also wondering now, because ah you talk about the smaller towns and the villages that that are now getting visited more, um and that I find very interesting and and actually quite exciting.
00:23:56
Speaker
do Do you think Do you think it's also partially, possibly because um that there's a bigger focus on social media now nowadays that FIT travelers can actually like find out about a cool, funky restaurant in some town they've never heard of, as opposed to the traditional group travels of the past?
00:24:15
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, social media, it has its pros and its cons, right? So I think from a pro perspective for us, specifically as the the Western Cape and driving people into the regions, what a lot of people don't realize, you know, the the Western Cape is quite unique in the sense that we've got a very strong network of our regional tourism offices and then the local tourism offices and then the local tourism associations.
00:24:40
Speaker
And through that entire network, there's constant marketing, promotion through Instagram, TikTok, you name it. And this then obviously reaches the and market segment that it needs to be reaching.
00:24:52
Speaker
And people are also hungry for things that are different, right? People are also hungry to, I mean, we used to say get off the beaten track. I don't know if it is so off the beaten track any longer, but you know, when you drive into a small little town that, you know, just has one high street through it, it's very different to driving through the center of Beijing, for example, where,
00:25:13
Speaker
And for people that have never experienced such small and remoteness, I mean, that is a unique selling point. It's like the Karoo, vast nothingness. You know, that is an anomaly that South Africa has. and I mean, I know you referenced Kruger turning 100.
00:25:29
Speaker
We as South Africa, as a conservation-heavy, rich destination, we've been doing sustainable, responsible tourism far before many other destinations were doing it, right?
00:25:41
Speaker
So when we push people out into the regions to really meet the people, to really experience the tourism product, and that's where the true magic really happens. It's out in these little doorbees and towns where you really – I mean, when I was in Shanghai and a colleague from SAT took me out to dinner to his little local restaurant, I mean, that was incredible for me because I got to meet the local people.
00:26:06
Speaker
And that's why we travel, right? I mean, that's why I travel. I travel because I want to meet local people and experience local culture. And I think if we look to the the Chinese traveler and what they're looking for, that's exactly what they're looking for. So, yes, to your to your point, I think we're going to see more and more Chinese FIT or small groups heading out into the regions and really just starting to go to those little places that we never thought that the Chinese traveller would be going to.
00:26:35
Speaker
Julia, just one quick question. i I don't know if you have the data in front of you, but i'm always I'm always keen to sort of hear about what um what the data is on arrival specifically into
Emerging Markets and Air Connectivity
00:26:47
Speaker
South Africa. And if we can kind of get an idea of how it breaks down, you know, all the way down to Cape Town, the Western Cape, that would be amazing.
00:26:54
Speaker
I was hoping you could give me maybe an idea of, you know, besides the big source markets, North America, EU, um like you said, then India, and um and China, perhaps and if you could give us an idea of, for example, smaller source markets are showing that are sort of punching a bit above their weight, that would be very interesting if we could know bit more about you know what are some other smaller markets that are also nonetheless important and growing for South Africa and for the Western Cape.
00:27:25
Speaker
Yeah, so I mean, if we just have to quickly pull out the the Chinese um stats, I mean, I'm looking at the the airline seats just for the year 2025 from Jan to December, and it's just over 140,000 seats have book been booked into um South Africa. So um and based on twenty twenty four it's around a fifty three percent increase so It's still a very low baseline, Shal, but, I mean, if we look at pre-pandemic numbers, it's still a big increase, right, but still a lot of work to be done.
00:27:56
Speaker
to the markets that are slowly starting to um come out, you know, your Scandinavian countries, the Norway, Switzerland, Ireland, you know, the UAE, that's a market that everybody's also starting to look at. I think with the geopolitical crisis happening at the moment, a lot of them are starting to come down south.
00:28:17
Speaker
They travel in our June, July, August. Obviously, they're summer when they all want to get out of the the GCC countries and they come down south. So we're seeing a big, well, a big from, again, a very low baseline, but we're seeing a big increase on travelers out of that market. So very interesting for us. And obviously, it is part of our priority markets, um the Middle East. So we're also going to start but focusing on that. So, and again, i mean, Shell Africa, right? Our brothers and sisters from our own continent, you know,
00:28:47
Speaker
There's a bigger story to be told there as well because the the the visa regulations, the airlift, I mean, a lot of, if you're coming from Nigeria, you go via Europe, you know, to get to to your own continent.
00:29:00
Speaker
it's um It's just crazy that we don't have enough direct airlift within our own African continent. And that we, weak Africans, you know, we we always said that animals can migrate easier through our continent than our own people.
00:29:13
Speaker
You know, it's so difficult. So that's that's a lot of work that needs to be unlocked as well. And obviously that's policy, that's advocacy, advisory and all that stuff. um Yeah, so lots of work to be done for Africa.
00:29:24
Speaker
And we're we're looking at the Middle East um very closely. is it Is it possible, I'm not sure if there's enough dollars to kind of back it up, but is it possible that we are seeing any movement from sort of ASEAN and Southeast Asian countries by any chance?
ASEAN Market Opportunities
00:29:40
Speaker
Yeah, so um we've we've been working very closely with the ASEAN markets as well, actually. and We've just become members of the... Japan Asia Travel Association. and My colleague was recently in Bangkok at the one of their first summits. um So, and again, the only African representation there, which, you know, always is West Grove.
00:30:04
Speaker
It shows that we're we're always leading, but it'd be so good to have some of our African destinations coming along with us. I know you referenced that earlier, Shol. But um we're looking at those markets very closely and some of the tour operators that are specializing in those markets I've been having conversations with and they've been telling me that they're getting very, very nice incentive travel coming out of Thailand and Vietnam, needing to start looking at the Malaysias. And again, it's air connectivity, right? So there's ah there's a bigger business case that needs to be made for for those markets altogether, you know whether you find one hub
00:30:38
Speaker
whether that hub be Beijing or, I don't know, coming down to to Singapore. But those markets we're watching very closely as well, um and it's also on our on our radar. I think we're actually going into that market in in March next year. We're going to do a roadshow through the ASEAN markets.
00:30:56
Speaker
Awesome. Thank you, Julia. That's really heartening to to to hear that you guys are kind of pushing on all fronts. And again, thanks so much to, you know, yourself and the Westgro team for for really repping us in the Western Cape. And of course, you guys are sort of carrying South Africa as a whole as well, to a large extent. So yeah, um thank you so much for chatting to us here today about what you guys do. Yeah, cool. Julia, thank you so much.
00:31:24
Speaker
Yeah, thanks for the opportunity. Thoroughly enjoyed it. If you have any questions or comments about the topics that we discussed on today's show, please feel free to reach out to us at marketingatcconsulting.com.cn or you can hit us up on LinkedIn at Create Consulting.
00:31:39
Speaker
We look forward to your feedback.