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Understanding Community-Based Marketing – a conversation with author Islam Gouda
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Good Marketing doesn’t just sell stuff; it has to enhance the lives of your customers.
Islam Gouda, is the marketing maestro author of SMEs and Startups Marketing Guide Through the Pandemic.
In this episode of The Independent Minds Islam talks to host Michael Millward about what makes community-based marketing work.
During their discussion Islam and Michael discuss
- Why it is important for marketers to utilise community-based marketing as the customer bases transfer between generations.
- The connection between psychology and marketing and how understanding the psychology of marketing helps brands to connect with consumers.
- The importance of a brand understanding their values and how to find consumers who share those values.
You will leave this episode understanding the importance of building a community around your brand and how this can be the most cost-effective approach to marketing for a small or medium sized organization.
More information about Islam Gouda and Michael Millward is available at abeceder.
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Transcript
Introduction to The Independent Minds Podcast
00:00:05
Speaker
on zencastr Hello and welcome to The Independent Minds, a series of conversations between Abbasida and people who think outside the box about how work works, with the aim of creating better workplace experiences for everyone.
Guest Introduction: Islam Gowda
00:00:22
Speaker
I'm your host, Michael Millward, the Managing Director of Abbasida. Today, I'm going to be learning about 360 degree marketing from Islam Gowda, the author of the SME and Startups Marketing Guide.
Sponsorship Promotion: Zencastr
00:00:40
Speaker
As the jingle at the start of this podcast says, the independent minds is made on Zencastr because Zencastr is the all-in-one podcasting platform that really does make every stage of the podcast making process, including publishing and distribution, so easy.
00:00:59
Speaker
If you would like to try podcasting using Zencastr, visit the link in the description, which has a built-in discount on subscriptions. Now that I have told you how wonderful Zencaster is for making podcasts, we should make one.
00:01:14
Speaker
One that will be well worth listening to, liking, downloading and subscribing to.
Podcast Mission Statement
00:01:20
Speaker
As with every episode of The Independent Minds, we will not be telling you what to think, but we are hoping to make you think.
00:01:28
Speaker
Today, my guest, Independent Mind, who met on Matchmaker.fm, is Islam Gowder, the author of the SME and Startup Marketing Guide.
Guest Background and Sponsorship
00:01:39
Speaker
Islam is from Cairo in Egypt, a place I have never visited.
00:01:43
Speaker
If I do get to go, I will make my travel arrangements at the Ultimate Travel Club, because at the Ultimate Travel Club, I can access trade prices on flights, hotels, trains, holidays, and so many other travel-related purchases.
00:01:57
Speaker
You can also access trade prices on travel by joining the Ultimate Travel Club, or there is a discounted link in the description. Now that I have paid some bills, it is time to make an episode of the Independent Minds.
Journey into Marketing
00:02:11
Speaker
Hello Islam. Hi Michael, how are you? I'm very well, thank you very much, and I hope you can say the same. Thank you very much for hosting me, and the let's make this episode a great one. I'm looking forward to a great episode, lots of discussion, lots of intriguing points regarding marketing.
00:02:32
Speaker
Marketing is more than just a vocation, it's a passion. um It's actually something that people should look up to, ah Because marketing is the backbone of communities. Marketing is the ah what shapes our daily habits, our daily routines.
00:02:51
Speaker
The products that we consume on a daily basis are marketing-based. Many of the great inventions around the world were made by marketeers. Take, for example, the elevators, the ah mirrors on the elevators.
00:03:06
Speaker
were made by marketeers so that they can people do not have to look at the watch while they are in the elevators or the lifts as we call them in the uk we do we do how did you develop your passion for uh for marketing That's a very good question actually because basically my passion grew up when I was in university at college time at the American University of Sharjah when I was just an undergrad.
Professional Growth in Marketing
00:03:36
Speaker
I took many courses and these courses were elective courses comprised of different subjects. When I took up marketing, my professor noticed something that's very different about me.
00:03:50
Speaker
from the other students, noticed my passion, noticed my ah intriguing questions, noticed my um love for psychology and love for developing new stuff and being creative, the creative mind, the creative license that basically made me ah what I am today, ah my passion, my curiosity, my everyday attitude that I'm everyday new, everyday passion and everyday willing to give. um that These old elements made me the marketeer that i am today. in In addition to the marketing gut which developed through years and years,
00:04:31
Speaker
of experience in multi multinational companies like MasterCard International Emirates and massage solutions in addition to my experience in the US and my masters and doctorate street honorary book so all of these Created me, created the Islam that you are talking to today, ah created something that basically is fond and loves marketing as an art and a science, something that goes beyond even working from nine to five. It's it's a passion that I love working towards.
Psychology and Ethics in Marketing
00:05:07
Speaker
You mentioned psychology in your description there, and I'm thinking that a large part of marketing is actually psychology. It is, it is, it is. and And it's not, by the way, there is good psychology and bad psychology in marketing, but um' for um I'm a pro good psychology.
00:05:25
Speaker
The psychology that ah does not allow you to buy stuff just for the sake of buying stuff. We're all guilty of that though, aren't we? We all buy things we don't need, but but we desperately want them.
00:05:37
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. yeah Desperately want them, and it's down to the marketing. Yeah, and and b indeed, indeed, indeed, indeed. Actually, I'm um um um'm i' in the school of thought that if you are in need of something, if you are, ah there's something that's going to serve ah one of the purposes of your lifestyles.
00:05:58
Speaker
Like, for example, take, for example, ah Patagonia. Patagonia, that's a very famous... brand that advocates buying stuff that's old, buying not not buying new stuff.
00:06:11
Speaker
Patagonia is the company that is almost like the Rolls-Royce, the Bentley, the Mercedes of outdoor clothing. Yes, indeed. So basically, Patagonia, that's that's basically a company that allows you to buy stuff that basically ah use stuff, something that's used for a long time.
00:06:30
Speaker
They don't promote buying new stuff because basically buying new stuff is not good for you. not just because of the money that it goes but also because of the environmental recycling that companies has to go through when when when people throw away uh their old clothes why buy new buys buy old so i'm i'm in the school of thought that basically if it doesn't serve a purpose of a but habit habitual lifestyle like something that will benefit you on on the long term and on the long short and the short term from a habitual ah lifestyle then i'm not pro promoting that product or service because basically marketing shapes how we are how we do what we do ah what we live and how we live it so if we are pro good marketing
00:07:24
Speaker
then we are better off in all ways our, of our all
Aligning Marketing with Values
00:07:29
Speaker
aspects of our lives. So I suppose from the perspective of a startup or SME, because they are such small organizations and the founders, the managers are involved in everything.
00:07:42
Speaker
What you're saying is that the starting point for good marketing in those sorts of situations is to do the sorts of things that match with your values. of course not only your values but your ethos uh the ethos of your customers as well uh so you are not promoting uh the product and services to yourself because i have seen a trend that smes they envision a company based on their own ethos based on their own values based on their own school of thoughts and they don't consider the school of thought of people that they are going to deal with especially
00:08:20
Speaker
the Gen Z's Gen Z's are very fickly they are very independent they are very socially aware they are very socially active ah if we do not consider the Gen Z Millennials are nowadays occupying many of the jobs that are in the market of course but ah the gen z's are the future of the customers so if we do not focus on the gen z's of the future the people who are going to buy from you in in in 10 years from now or 20 years from now because millennials are getting old and uh baby boomers are
00:08:57
Speaker
still having a power but they are not having the same power power over small to medium enterprises or FMCGs. A lot of baby boomers who were founders of businesses entrepreneurs are now starting to retire and we've perhaps got another decade before all of those baby boomers are now will be retired. We've got another the decade of that. But what you're saying is that the this Gen Z, Generation Z people who are entering the workforce and are in the start of it, those people are going to be running businesses in management roles.
00:09:30
Speaker
And those are the people that we've got to think about if we're going to try and sell something. either into a business or to the consumer. of And the big mistake that organizations make when they think about marketing is that they look at their marketing from their perspective rather than from the perspective of their customer. And as the Gen population enters the workforce and grows, successful marketeers will not, unless they're a Gen Z person, I suppose,
00:10:00
Speaker
will be not looking at their own view of the world. They'll be looking at it much more from the view of the customer who could be a Gen Z person or a millennial or the generation alpha, which is the one that's next coming up.
00:10:14
Speaker
Yes. The key point, a starting point is to understand what your values are and then find customers, I suppose, who will buy into your value, your image of your company and the message that you want to put out into the world. Mm-hmm.
00:10:30
Speaker
Indeed, indeed. And by the way, people don't buy products and services anymore. They buy what you sell walking the talk, as you say. Walking the talk. Walking the talk, as you say. They don't buy your products or services. They buy what you say. They buy what you do.
00:10:50
Speaker
So if you say that you are pro the environment and you are wasting thousands and thousands of dollars on electricity or or on ah non-recyclable materials, and you are not saying what you're promising, then you are not going to be ah selling any stuff because basically people don't buy stuff anymore. They buy who you are.
00:11:12
Speaker
What you are and what you do is important to them. it's it's It's as important as the product itself. Because that's what makes them belong to you on the long and on the short term. And people nowadays, community marketing and community-based marketing are the core of what we do as marketeers.
00:11:33
Speaker
Community-based marketing is marketing that brings together the ethos and the ethics and the problems of a community together in a small subsidized pieces that basically people group together to belong to or to adopt.
Community-Based Marketing Strategies
00:11:50
Speaker
So if these groups of people, they do not buy what you what what the what the walk you are walking, then they will not buy your product anymore. You mentioned Patagonia and their campaigns around yeah not overbuying clothing and using clothing um and repairing clothing.
00:12:09
Speaker
A similar campaign was run by Vivian Westwood at a completely different part of the fashion and clothing market, admittedly. But her campaign was buy less and wear more. And this whole sort of shop your wardrobe campaigns that some department stores have as well to say, okay, you've got loads of clothes.
00:12:28
Speaker
um You don't need more clothes. You just need to use the clothes that you've already got. So that's like in in the clothing industry, which I suppose everybody, every everyone is buying clothing. But what other sorts of organizations in other industries have you seen who do this particularly well, this community-based, value-based marketing? Who else can we sort of point the finger at and say they're doing it very well?
00:12:52
Speaker
um companies like amazon amazon they have many community-based marketing um they they promote uh buying products on a recommendation basis so basically it's an open community that so allows people to see the reviews of the products of others and freely buy the stuff that basically uh is congruent with whatever that they are trying to buy. So Amazon is freely allowing people to see other people's reviews and it's allowing people to say whatever they want to say about the product that people are selling or people are buying.
00:13:34
Speaker
So that in itself is corporate social responsibility because basically you are allowing not only people to be transparent, but also to buying stuff that is honest honest feedback that's going to return on them and also they are lifting from them the responsibility of buying something that's not congruent with whatever you are trying to buy it's your responsibility as a buyer to read the reviews to read the instructions to read whatever is being told about or said about the product and then you have the freedom to buy the product or not if you opt to buy the product then you are
00:14:12
Speaker
responsible enough, you are an adult, you are, you are, um you are, you have, you've got your freedom, then you buy that product on your own responsibility. And basically this freedom, this freedom is of speech, as I say, and in buying products and services from a platform like Amazon allows for a bigger community to be loyal to Amazon and loyal to its reviews, because basically It's not only corporate social responsibility, but it's also um ah lifting the liability on from Amazon. It's a great ah tool.
00:14:50
Speaker
And I think Amazon as a company, when it developed this kind of ah reviews, it allowed itself to be a worldwide community of people who opt to buy stuff that's matching to their own lifestyles, matching to their own needs, matching to their own ah want And I think that's brilliant.
00:15:09
Speaker
I can see what you mean. i think there's also and another side to the argument with Amazon in that you're not buying anything from Amazon. It's a big shopping mall and you have lots of big sellers, small sellers, independent sellers who are within the Amazon family, so to speak. Mm-hmm.
00:15:30
Speaker
and pay for the privilege to be there from each sale, etc. But it's the the management of the reviews and the transparency and credibility of the reviews. And that system relies upon the members of the community to post genuine, authentic, honest questions.
00:15:54
Speaker
reviews, constructive reviews, which will help people. ah term Again, if you buy one thing, the algorithm will suggest something else, and then you get into the review process and having to do a lot of that sort of discovery yourself.
00:16:08
Speaker
I was thinking about um the different airlines, and obviously airlines use a lot of fuel. They're moving people around the world. Nothing wrong with that because people want to move around the world.
00:16:20
Speaker
But there are different attitudes amongst different airlines ah towards their staff and their customers, their passengers. You've got organizations, airlines that people might say, oh yeah, you can follow this this type of approach because you're charging people big fees so you can afford to finance this type of community-based marketing.
00:16:45
Speaker
Whereas the smaller airline or this budget airline doesn't have those resources, so i can't afford to do the same type of things. And I'm sure no one really needs me to be naming airlines that make ah a virtue out of treating their passengers well.
00:17:03
Speaker
differently to one of the premier airlines, for example. So you book your ticket and lots of people do book the tickets. They know the rules. They know if they break the rules, their flight, the price of their flight is going to go through the roof. yes But people know that before they start the process.
00:17:19
Speaker
So it's open, it's honest, it's transparent, but it it can appear to be quite cruel as well.
Diverse Marketing Approaches in Industries
00:17:28
Speaker
Speaking of airlines, have you seen that trend of airlines in Europe that are opting to ah have a standing chair that basically it allows passengers to stand all the way through their trip?
00:17:44
Speaker
That I think it's, it's it's they are they are going to make millions and millions of dollars out of this invention. But at the end of the day, it's not safe for the customers. and I wanted to point this out.
00:17:56
Speaker
ah somewhere Yes. well so say Yeah, I think that is a very, I know the airline that you mean, and I think it's a very good marketing story to sort of say, this is what we're going to do. I don't believe that they have any intention of actually doing it and they probably wouldn't be allowed to do it.
00:18:16
Speaker
by all the safety people. But it's a good way of getting their marketing message in that yeah we are offering you the ah cheapest possible flights.
00:18:26
Speaker
And this is one of the ways in which we could do it And they come up with all sorts of stories to encourage people to or to reinforce that that message that we are the cheapest ticket and we're the cheapest ticket because we do these sorts of things.
00:18:40
Speaker
think it's a really good marketing a message from that perspective. But in your book, the SMEs and Startups Marketing Guide, yeah this is one of the key things that you are talking about is the way in which ah so an organization with a small marketing budget yeah can actually get a better return on their marketing spend yes if they actually are following a community-based marketing approach because then they marketing they their community will do their marketing for
SME Strategies During Crises
00:19:12
Speaker
them.
00:19:12
Speaker
Of course, of course. In my book, SME is a marketing guide through COVID-19. ah That book actually, it was written in 2021. ah Yeah, 2021.
00:19:23
Speaker
Basically, it addressed the community-based initiatives that basically can be opted in different communities around the world, in the US s and South Africa and India and different communities around the world, in the UK even,
00:19:38
Speaker
of how companies can or how communities can come together to bring small to medium enterprises businesses alive and a crisis but basically for two reasons the first reason is small to medium enterprises are the backbone of any community 90 percent of the companies working or operating in the u.s are small to medium enterprises can imagine And these internal enterprises are um um yielding lots of ah money for the community they are operating in.
00:20:12
Speaker
So marketing these companies in the best way, in the most optimal way possible is going to benefit the community and benefit the people who are running the business, whether it's a family business and whether or whether it's ah it's a small group of people.
00:20:27
Speaker
So this is the first thing. The second thing is the most important thing, basically, that communities thrive ah based on their weakest links.
00:20:38
Speaker
So if you have a weak link in the community, ah like small to medium enterprises with low resources, you have to make sure that these companies are really ah making good money out of their business because basically these are the ones who are the most vulnerable number vulnerable and they need to have that the support that they need and whether it's marketing support, whether it's financial support, whether it's whatever the support you need, or organizational or governmental support, they need some sort of support so that they can thrive and the community are they are working in or are are operating in thrives as well.
00:21:17
Speaker
It's interesting. How should an SME who wants to set up a community-based marketing program, how should they get started? they should get started by building the community itself so if you are working in uh in the uk for example and you are in uh let's say for example in the catering business for example so you should you should go to all the bakeries that are working in a so certain area and you should speak with them and talk to them about
00:21:48
Speaker
bringing them together under one platform, under one umbrella that you can control, you can be the liaison between them and the customers, and you promote their products and services in exchange of a fee.
00:22:01
Speaker
So you have now, one, the fee that's coming out of the bakeries that you are working with, In addition, you are your promoting to the customers who are going to appreciate your business because they have many options to buy from.
00:22:15
Speaker
So community-based marketing starts from the community itself. You need to see the product that you are selling or the service that you are selling and then go speak with the people who are ah responsible for selling these products. Don't don't Don't rein reinvent ah the wheel, as we as we say.
00:22:37
Speaker
who The wheel is already there. The wheel is already there. yeah All what you have to do is bring them together under one umbrella. This umbrella will make you money out of ah connecting people together and then connecting the customers to the buyers or sorry, the buyers to the the people.
00:22:56
Speaker
or providers and then you you can make money off both people then you are better off like amazon be like amazon be the amazon of business and make the money out of both parties So ah you would suggest then that the organizations that are competitors should actually collaborate on organizing their marketing? Of course.
00:23:21
Speaker
um I'm going to give you an example. In Sharjah, in chargeja and United Arab Emirates, there is roundabout. There is a roundabout in the UAE in Sharjah. It's called ah the phone roundabout.
00:23:32
Speaker
ah it's It's originally called the clock tower roundabout Sharjah, but it's called the phone roundabout. Because there are many phone business retailers, shops that are next to each other.
00:23:44
Speaker
Why are they next to each other? That's brilliant business. Why? Because if I would like to buy a phone, I'm going to compare prices going from one shop to the other. That's the in the old days, of course.
00:23:56
Speaker
ah Nowadays, it's changed because of the of the brick and mortar trans ah change to becoming ah an online business. So why did the, uh, they can't congregate many businesses in one area, because basically you can compare prices.
00:24:16
Speaker
You can go from one shop to the other. Even if they are competitors, you can buy one of your smallest competitors and then ah you can combine your business together.
Collaborative Market Presence
00:24:26
Speaker
This is beneficial brief to the customers, to the people. Competitors nowadays should come together. They should be one entity. Don't compete. um My advice to companies, don't compete anymore. There's no room for competition.
00:24:41
Speaker
If you would like to be number one Don't allow for number two to be number two. Make number two and number one with you and then compete with the customers. ah Bring more business to the people.
00:24:53
Speaker
Bring more enhancements. Instead of paying for marketing to promote your business or to mimic other people's businesses, Be R&D, do R&D research and development to make the best product for the customers. that's why That's how you are going to win the customers and win the market by ti number two and make it with you number one.
00:25:14
Speaker
Right. So if we take the Amazon analogy, Amazon has all of the various different ah booksellers, for example. So you can buy the same book from numerous different providers.
00:25:27
Speaker
They all have different prices and different shipping costs, et cetera. So the aim is to so say bring everyone to one place.
00:25:38
Speaker
Yes. The roundabout with all the mobile shops and something that happened in medieval England as well. There would be area, the area, where the butchers were, the area where the fishmongers were.
00:25:49
Speaker
You go to London, you have the Billingsgate fish market with all the fish sellers. Smithfields with all of the ah meat sellers. Covent Garden with all of the flower sellers. um There's a market for everything.
00:26:01
Speaker
But bring the various different suppliers... together in one place, get the customers there. Once you've got the customers there, then you can actually then compete on service and price.
00:26:13
Speaker
But you've the important part is first of all, to collaborate, to get the customers to where you where you all are. Of course. and And we used we use to say, go to the customers where they are Nowadays, we can bring the customers to where we all are. yes that's That's even way better.
00:26:32
Speaker
It's a really interesting approach, and would suggest people read the Startup and SME Marketing Guide for more
Conclusion and Exploration Encouragement
00:26:41
Speaker
information. But but today, Islam, our time has flown, but it's been very interesting. Thank you very much. Really appreciate your time.
00:26:48
Speaker
Thank you, Michael. Thank you. Thank you. It's it's been a pleasure talking to you, and I look forward to collaborating with you in the future, and thank you very much. Thank you.
00:26:59
Speaker
Thank you. I am Michael Millward, the Managing Director of Abbasida, and I have been having a conversation with the independent mind, Islam Gowda, the author of the SMEs and Startups Marketing Guide.
00:27:13
Speaker
You can find out more information about both of us at abbasida.co.uk. I must thank the team at Matchmaker for introducing me to Islam. If you're a podcaster looking for interesting guests, or if, like Islam, you have something interesting to say,
00:27:27
Speaker
Matchmaker.fm is where matches of great hosts and great podcasts are made. I'm sure that you will have enjoyed listening to this episode of The Independent Minds as much as Islam and I have enjoyed making it.
00:27:39
Speaker
Please give it a like and download it so that you can listen anytime, anywhere. To make sure you don't miss out on future episodes, please subscribe. Remember the aim of all the podcasts produced by Abu Sederh.
00:27:52
Speaker
It's not to tell you what to think, but we do hope to have made you think. Until the next episode of The Independent Minds, thank you for listening, and goodbye.