Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Worm Composting 101
85 Plays4 months ago
In this episode of Hort Culture, we dive into the delightful world of worm composting, also known as vermicomposting! These little wigglers aren't just good for scaring fishermen – they can be a gardener's secret weapon for turning kitchen scraps into a welcome compost addition to any garden.
We'll break down the basics of setting up your own worm bin, including the ideal habitat for your composting crew. We'll discuss what you can and can't feed your worms, and explore the fascinating science behind how they transform your waste into black gold for your plants.
Here are some of the questions we'll answer:
- What kind of worm bin do I need?
- What kitchen scraps do worms love (and hate)?
- How long does it take to get finished compost?
- How can I use worm castings in my garden?
By the end of this episode, you'll be equipped with the knowledge to turn your leftover lettuce cores and eggshells into a superfood for your garden. So, grab your coffee, put on your gardening gloves (metaphorically, for now), and get ready to learn all about the wonderful world of worm composting!
Vermicomposting NC State Extension
Vermicomposting – Composting with Worms
Indoor Worm Composting or Vermicomposting
Questions/Comments/Feedback/Suggestions for Topics: [email protected]
Recommended
Transcript
Unusual Voicemails and Name Mishaps
00:00:16
Alexis
Hello, welcome, good day. What other, I feel like I have more sayings for a goodbye, I just wanna sing this song.
00:00:22
atack2010
Greetings.
00:00:22
Josh
Welcome and bienvenue, bonjour.
00:00:24
Alexis
Hola.
00:00:27
atack2010
Audi.
00:00:27
Brett
I once had a um ah once had a call when I first started working in extension from a person, and I won't say their name, but they they left a voicemail and it just said, welcome, welcome. And I'll just say my i'll say my own name in this in the case. They said, this is Brett Wolf, B, R, E. And they spelled out their full name at that pace. And I was like, what have I gotten myself into? So a regular one in our house is, welcome, welcome.
00:00:55
Josh
No.
00:00:56
Alexis
Oh, God.
00:01:03
Alexis
Honestly, i'm I'm expecting a phone call like that ah relatively soon. So if not, I'm going to be disappointed.
00:01:08
Brett
Yeah.
00:01:09
Alexis
So um well, I was thinking.
00:01:11
Brett
i called I call that person back and and they never responded, I guess. I mean, I i don't know.
00:01:14
Alexis
No.
00:01:16
Brett
Maybe I pronounced their name with the incorrect spelling in my reply.
00:01:19
Alexis
I was going to say, maybe maybe ah you said it how it was spelled and not how it's actually supposed to be said.
00:01:24
Brett
Oh yeah, that's true.
00:01:26
Alexis
Mm, rookie mistake.
00:01:27
atack2010
ah
00:01:28
Alexis
Yeah.
00:01:28
Brett
Sorry. Is it worm it?
Humor in Everyday Situations
00:01:31
Brett
Let get a ah let me work it. Get a bin, put a minute, don't disturb it.
00:01:38
Josh
Man, that was tortured, but beautiful.
00:01:39
atack2010
You pulled that one out of the fire. That was that was descending and all of a sudden you
00:01:41
Alexis
Yeah.
00:01:41
Brett
Thank you.
Resilience and Pop Culture References
00:01:44
atack2010
pulled it up so.
00:01:44
Alexis
I know I was a little concerned that you might be having a stroke.
00:01:44
Brett
Well, you know, like, you know, it's times, it's times like this that I'm reminded of Tupac's question, which is, if you see a rose growing up through a crack in the concrete, are you going to say, Oh, that's not as good as the other roses?
00:01:45
Josh
I was like, this is it. This is the big one.
00:02:01
Brett
Or are you going to be impressed that it was able to emerge from that concrete in the first place?
00:02:06
Alexis
I mean, dandelions do it, so.
00:02:08
Brett
Yeah. And you can't spell dandelion without lion roar. I want to see you be brave.
00:02:16
Alexis
We're just pulling all the pop stars out right now.
00:02:17
atack2010
Okay, Katy Perry.
00:02:18
Alexis
i ah yeah Is it me?
00:02:19
atack2010
Yeah, we are.
00:02:21
Josh
i feel like i'm having this stroke
00:02:23
Brett
Yeah. Boom.
00:02:25
Alexis
Am I the one?
00:02:25
Brett
And now how the turntables.
00:02:29
atack2010
ah
00:02:29
Alexis
And Michael Scott.
00:02:31
atack2010
That's why you shouldn't eat caffeine tablets, kids.
00:02:35
Josh
nice
00:02:35
Brett
Why is that?
00:02:36
atack2010
Oh,
00:02:37
Alexis
Brett's like, what?
Tea, L-Theanine, and the Wormy World of Vermicomposting
00:02:38
atack2010
I didn't ask a question.
00:02:38
Alexis
Why?
00:02:38
Brett
Am I, am I the cautionary tale?
00:02:40
atack2010
but it
00:02:40
Alexis
What's in that what's in that cup you got there?
00:02:42
Brett
Oh, you know, I think I've talked about this before, but I'll go ahead and give a shout out to my good friend, Camellia sinensis, AKA tea.
00:02:48
Josh
I feel like I'm having the stroke.
00:02:50
Brett
Um, this is a green tea.
00:02:50
Josh
because
00:02:52
Alexis
o
00:02:52
Brett
Uh, and as I probably have told some of the people who are listening and, or you all maybe before green tea has a, uh, in addition to caffeine, it also has a high dosage of what's of this chemical called L theanine. which is a known mood booster and antidepressant that is able to cross the blood brain barrier. and so that's why when people say drink
00:03:12
atack2010
Much like microplastics.
00:03:14
Brett
Yeah.
00:03:14
Josh
yeah Like a catalyst.
00:03:15
Brett
The microplastics are sort of like, it's like ah a lithium grease situation for the healthy. I mean, yeah. Um, so I'm drinking some of that and I, I must say I do feel as the, as the, I wouldn't say the kids say as the elderly, ah elderly disproportionately like Asian tea drinkers say I'm tea drunk.
00:03:27
Alexis
Boosted.
00:03:28
atack2010
list
00:03:37
Josh
Nice.
00:03:38
Alexis
I learned something new today. Hopefully you you all did too, dear dear listeners. We're learning about tea. We're also going to learn about worms today. So, you know, write on eventually.
00:03:48
atack2010
Eventually.
00:03:48
Josh
me
00:03:49
Brett
That's what, hence my, hence my, my little semi-free style there that was really put it, get yourself a bin, put them in it, don't disturb it.
00:03:52
Alexis
Worm it, let me work it.
00:03:54
atack2010
Segue.
00:03:55
Alexis
I think that might be the title of the episode,
00:03:59
Josh
nice
00:03:59
atack2010
Warm been work it.
00:03:59
Josh
yeah
00:04:00
Alexis
but you you do disturb it and I'm going to tell you all the ways.
00:04:00
Brett
Yeah. Well, they disturb it as much as anything, but verma, verma posting, is this the, is this the vibe we're going for?
00:04:05
Alexis
That's true. They are the ultimate disturbers.
00:04:11
Josh
Verma composting, verma culture, take us into it.
00:04:11
Brett
So, Oh.
00:04:11
Alexis
very Verma compost.
00:04:13
atack2010
No, that's this that's the social media is Verma posting.
00:04:13
Alexis
Yeah.
00:04:16
atack2010
like That's when you post.
00:04:17
Alexis
for Oh, that's their Instagram handle.
00:04:18
atack2010
See?
00:04:18
Brett
Yeah, like what would you do if I was a worm kind of thing?
00:04:20
Alexis
Okay.
00:04:20
atack2010
Yes.
00:04:20
Alexis
um Yeah, that's, that's in their bio.
00:04:21
atack2010
Ooh, I like that.
00:04:23
Brett
Would you still love me if I was a worm? um But we're just to be clear, we're not talking about worms in the garden context.
00:04:26
Alexis
Would you still love me if I was a worm?
00:04:28
atack2010
They say you gotta... to Did I read somewhere that there's over 9,000 kinds of worms?
00:04:31
Brett
We're talking about them in a in a created environment used to to break down.
00:04:34
Alexis
Yeah.
00:04:39
atack2010
I read somewhere once and I was like,
00:04:40
Josh
I read that same thing too.
00:04:41
atack2010
That's a lot, that's a lot of worms.
00:04:45
Brett
Yeah, gotta gotta catch them all.
00:04:45
Alexis
And not all of them are good worms.
00:04:45
atack2010
That's a lot of worms. Okay, okay.
00:04:47
Alexis
love Some of them are just cranky.
00:04:47
Josh
Some of them are mean. Some of them are just kind of jerks.
00:04:51
atack2010
Yeah, yeah, lots of worms.
00:04:52
Alexis
Yeah. Like that ah new hammerhead worm, sidetrack hammerhead worm.
00:04:54
atack2010
i Seen the info, but not seen one personally.
00:04:57
Alexis
Have you guys seen the stuff above them? but but They make me ill.
00:05:00
Brett
Yeah, I was hoping you were going to say hammerhead worm the third time.
00:05:02
Josh
No. Do they look like like do they have like a hammerhead with their with whoa.
00:05:05
Alexis
him
00:05:05
atack2010
It's hammer time.
00:05:05
Brett
Hammerhead worm.
00:05:07
Alexis
Yeah. Yeah. So they're like these very, they're very large worms and they're very slimy, which is not.
00:05:15
Josh
Oh, I don't like that at all.
00:05:17
Alexis
Yeah. No.
00:05:18
atack2010
Yeah, they're not toxic.
00:05:18
Alexis
If you go Google it and they do, they have a little hammerhead, like a little hammerhead shark and they're very aggressive and not great for the environment and they're invasive and they are, they're slow, slimy. They creep me out hello like eels.
00:05:31
Josh
Do we get those like here?
00:05:33
Alexis
We're, so we're starting to get them in Kentucky. Yeah. They're being found on Western Kentucky.
00:05:38
atack2010
That is something that you would not put in your worm being.
00:05:38
Josh
I mean, everything in nature is like incredible, but looking at the hammerhead worm, it looks like something out of like a horror deal.
00:05:43
Alexis
Um, yeah, it can be incredible and so creepy, I think, but incredibly creepy, but we're talking about good worms today.
00:05:45
atack2010
Alien.
00:05:49
atack2010
Incredibly creepy. Yeah.
00:05:50
Brett
Yeah, both.
00:05:53
Alexis
We're going to talk about ver, verma compost.
00:05:54
atack2010
Some of the good ones.
00:05:55
Brett
You almost got me started on European Nightcrawlers and Forest Health, but I'm going to put a pin in that and encourage listeners to go and Google it maybe.
00:06:00
Alexis
Put it in that that's a future.
00:06:01
Josh
Hahahaha!
00:06:02
Alexis
If you would like that as an episode, comment, let us know.
00:06:05
Brett
Another thing the Europeans ruined.
00:06:08
Alexis
We're the worst as for ah very pale people talking on this episode.
00:06:10
Brett
Yeah.
00:06:15
Brett
Yeah.
00:06:16
Alexis
One of them blonde. Brett's got some redhead background. I'm pretty confident based on the beard color. So um yeah.
00:06:22
Brett
Yeah.
00:06:24
Alexis
but anyways vermicompost i love talking about vermicompost because it is something you can do even if you live in like an apartment and you might think i'm crazy but i have had a worm bin in my office and in the extension office for 11 years and not once have i had to get rid of them because somebody got mad about like smell or weird things. Okay, one time, I will, out I'm gonna out myself right here.
00:06:49
atack2010
Oh, okay, one time.
00:06:49
Josh
Mm.
00:06:51
Alexis
at One time, I've never told my co workers this. So if they're you're listening, hi.
00:06:58
Alexis
I'll know if they listen based on whether or not they yell at me later. So One time I ah overlooked, i was it was very new, the worm bin was new, I was still learning things about it and I put too much food in it and I got a fruit fly problem happening and they were buzzing all over but nobody realized that I had a worm bin in my office and no one blamed me for it.
00:07:12
Brett
Oh, yeah Yeah, look yeah look
00:07:20
Josh
yeah right
00:07:21
Alexis
And so I just went around and put little sticky traps everywhere and I was like, I'm the Horticulture Agent, I'll take care of this problem that I may or may not have caused.
00:07:26
Josh
yeah
00:07:28
atack2010
You're the problem solver, but you did not mention that you're the problem maker.
00:07:29
Josh
ah Yeah, Alexis was hired to manage the problems that she creates.
00:07:30
Alexis
Yeah.
00:07:32
atack2010
Yeah. Yes.
00:07:34
Brett
Look, look, look, we don't have time for talking about who caused this.
00:07:37
Josh
yeah
00:07:37
Alexis
But I can fix it.
00:07:37
Brett
Who's going to fix it?
00:07:38
Josh
yeah but
00:07:39
atack2010
Let's not dwell on the past.
00:07:39
Brett
Me.
00:07:39
Alexis
You're welcome.
00:07:40
Josh
Action-oriented.
00:07:41
atack2010
Let's not dwell.
00:07:42
Brett
We could stand around pointing fingers and maybe find out who did this, or we could move on really quickly.
00:07:45
Alexis
I was new in like 23.
00:07:50
Brett
That's awesome.
00:07:50
Alexis
But anyways, ah other than that one incident, I have i have had them and I've had no other incident. So you can do this if you're in an apartment setting. It is great to use in your houseplants if you don't even have a garden, but maybe you have a houseplant or you have some potted tomatoes or something like that on you know on a porch.
00:08:05
atack2010
Right.
00:08:08
Alexis
can absolutely use these things and, uh, you know, not throw us so much into the garbage. Uh, and you really don't have to deal with them a ton. So people who don't like worms, you can still compost, do vermicomposting, even if you think worms are kind of gross because you really don't have to like mess with them a ton. So, uh, I know that's like an issue for some people is they're like, Ooh, worms are gross.
00:08:27
Brett
yeah
00:08:31
Alexis
And I'm like, yeah, they don't really, you don't really notice them. You don't really deal with them a ton. Uh, so I really like talking about this.
00:08:37
Josh
Maybe they think you're supposed to like pet them and like roll around with them.
00:08:41
Alexis
Yeah, no, you actually you don't need they don't need any grooming. You know, there's no extra care. You just kind of toss your banana peel in there occasionally and roll with the punches.
00:08:47
Josh
No socialization.
00:08:52
Brett
Yeah. Yeah, they like to be left alone.
00:08:53
atack2010
How did you get started in worms? Yeah.
00:08:55
Alexis
How did I get started, Worms? There was an extension class that was the very first year I started and a specialist was teaching it. And the goal was that they would teach us and we would make us a worm bin and then we'd be able to teach that class. And I have to many, many people over the years. And so um I had my worm bin, which was ah the, like you have a sourdough starter, it was that for people. And so we'd, uh, I basically raised a bunch of worms and spread them throughout the community.
00:09:25
Josh
nice
00:09:26
Brett
I have a vermapast
00:09:26
Josh
where did you ahead
00:09:31
Brett
as well.
00:09:32
Alexis
Oh, tell me.
00:09:32
atack2010
Oh.
00:09:34
Brett
So actually, and I teased this in one of our previous episodes, but um one of the one of the many deal sealers that I ah used during my courtship of Annie was asking her if she wanted to come see my worms.
00:09:46
Alexis
Oh.
00:09:51
Josh
Nice.
00:09:52
Brett
And I did not, I was such a, I was a naive person ah and Ray has since explained to me that there might be some sort of double entendre or something there.
00:09:52
Josh
Where did
00:09:52
atack2010
worth Wow, wow.
00:09:55
Josh
she go?
00:09:58
Josh
Hahahaha!
00:09:59
atack2010
Yeah. I mean, especially if you're in the basement, Brad.
00:10:00
Brett
I was so innocent in those days.
00:10:02
atack2010
Was it worthy in the basement? Did you tack that on? Do you want to see my worm in the basement?
00:10:05
Brett
They were not in the basement. No, it
Vermicomposting Best Practices
00:10:07
Brett
was the, it was the same situation that Alexis just described.
00:10:07
atack2010
Worms in the basement?
00:10:09
Brett
So this was back when I was just a, just a grad student renting a single room and I was, you know, uh, baptized in the waters of sustainable agriculture and wanting to participate, but didn't really have a context for doing it, um, for like doing a larger scale compost.
00:10:10
atack2010
Okay.
00:10:28
Brett
And so I was like, Oh, I'm going to try this worm bin thing. And I had a worm bin just in my room. ah My my 10 by 10 room that included a might stand up desk because that was hot back then and my ah Bed and some bookshelves and and these little worms um So I was definitely exposed to any imbalances within the within the worm bin But she yeah, I think I think I think I ended up bringing them out to show her instead of like
00:10:59
Josh
so This is where the worms in high sleep.
00:10:59
atack2010
Good. Okay.
00:11:00
Alexis
like yeah Like you're the guy who brings out like this snake on the, like his, you know, boa constrictor and you're like, and said, oh, here is ah my worms.
00:11:00
atack2010
Okay. This story is getting better. then Yeah.
00:11:04
Brett
yeah
00:11:06
Brett
Yeah, snake guy.
00:11:07
atack2010
Okay. Okay.
00:11:11
Alexis
Would you like to meet them all?
00:11:13
Brett
She was I mean, the the proof in the pudding.
00:11:15
Alexis
She married you, so.
00:11:16
Brett
Yeah, we just we just we just ah did nine years of being married and I don't know how many years of knowing each other.
00:11:23
Alexis
Togetherness.
00:11:24
Brett
Yeah.
00:11:24
Josh
for
00:11:24
Brett
um So yeah, exactly.
00:11:25
atack2010
You argue with success. I mean, you can't. Oh, man.
00:11:28
Brett
So from a posting not just good for turning over table scraps in a small space.
00:11:34
Alexis
Yeah, yeah, also good for love.
00:11:35
atack2010
You're sealing the deal. Yeah.
00:11:36
Brett
Yeah, ladies, ladies dig wom or chicks dig worms.
00:11:38
atack2010
ah I like that.
00:11:38
Brett
Is that the, I don't know.
00:11:40
Josh
Yeah.
00:11:40
Brett
like I'm going to workshop it.
00:11:42
Josh
The birds.
00:11:42
atack2010
Yeah. Maybe want to wordsmith that up a little bit.
00:11:45
Alexis
Yeah, we'll have merch coming soon.
00:11:47
Brett
Yeah.
00:11:48
atack2010
Yeah.
00:11:48
Brett
Ooh.
00:11:49
Alexis
Well, cool. So ah for those of you who maybe you caught on, this is worm composting. And usually the first question I know I get about worm composting is, do I just go dig up a bunch of worms out in the field? And ah and the answer is no. So there are ah worms that are much better at living in a confined space.
00:12:03
Josh
hahaha
00:12:10
Alexis
ah They also ah are better at digesting the types of food food scraps you're putting in there.
00:12:11
Brett
Hm.
00:12:16
Alexis
So, you know, they're not getting that leaf litter and things like that you're finding outside in the garden, that mulch. You're putting in, you know, coffee grounds and banana peels and things along those lines. And we'll talk a little bit more about what is a do and a don't for a vermicompost bin. So but basically what i'm getting at is there are species that are much better at living in these spaces ah specifically usually we recommend the red wiggler and they are very easy to find a lot of people like them for fishing bait as well ah so ah you may have heard of those before but Red Wiggler is usually the one we recommend to live in those types of spaces, deal with those types of environments.
00:12:52
Alexis
And one thing I do always want to mention to people is while they are worms and we're used to them living outside, the Red Wiggler species is ah a lot like me.
00:12:59
Brett
Mm
00:13:00
Alexis
It does not like the extremes of weather. So it doesn't like to get too cold. It doesn't like to get too hot.
00:13:05
Brett
-hmm.
00:13:06
Alexis
So anything under 40 and anything kind of above 80 is going to be out of the question. So you do want to have them in an area that's a little bit more climate controlled.
00:13:12
Brett
Mm
00:13:14
Alexis
ah They can withstand, you know, cooler, those kind of the cooler end, ah but they won't do their work as readily.
00:13:20
Brett
-hmm.
00:13:21
Alexis
So that's something
Innovative Worm Bin Setups
00:13:22
Alexis
to think about if you've got them in a barn or garage type area that doesn't freeze. So that's yeah.
00:13:29
Brett
I like that. I have trouble saying it. I either want to say red wriggler or wed wiggler.
00:13:33
atack2010
you
00:13:36
Josh
yeah totally
00:13:36
Alexis
wed wiggles
00:13:37
Josh
yeah
00:13:39
Alexis
You'll also see them called red worms, if that's easier.
00:13:40
Brett
Yeah.
00:13:42
Alexis
I just think red wiggler is a lot more fun to say, so.
00:13:45
Brett
yeah And and you know the think the one of the things that I discovered in my you know early early days and since ah is that you know you're not going to dig them up from the ground. In fact, there are worm farms.
00:13:59
Alexis
she
00:14:00
Brett
which I would love to go and visit a worm farm someday.
00:14:02
Josh
Yeah, totally.
00:14:03
Brett
um that was that's actually i't actually yeah I would love that.
00:14:04
Alexis
like I kinda wanna be a worm farmer, I think.
00:14:06
Josh
Sort of like an ag tourism experience.
00:14:09
atack2010
There were some of those in the state. I i forget where, but Alexis, it was a, yeah, somewhere's in that area.
00:14:12
Alexis
There was one down, I thought Liberty, was it in the, lit not Liberty, but um campbell Campbell'sville area or something like that, I thought. um
00:14:20
atack2010
And it was one of those and they raised those for, and it was a 2009, 2010, 11, somewhere's in there and I've lost track of it since then. I don't know. Well, what happened?
00:14:28
Brett
the the big ones the The big ones around, you can order online and they'll ship them to your house in a nice little moist bag.
00:14:29
Alexis
When I've,
00:14:33
Alexis
Yeah, you can literally get them on Amazon.
00:14:34
Brett
So if you're, yeah, not, and they're not crazy expensive.
00:14:35
Alexis
yeah
00:14:38
Brett
They are, I would want to have things set up in a way, which we're going to talk about here before investing in some, you know, it' the same way, if you were going to get a snake or a turtle or a any other kind of pet, you want to have your house ready to, or your situation ready to receive it.
00:14:50
Alexis
perceive
00:14:52
Brett
Yeah.
00:14:53
Alexis
I have seen, um oh, I was going to talk about um a worm operation that I have seen where that was sort of like their secondary thing to to to make use of the greenhouse space they were heating.
00:14:53
Brett
What were you, somebody would say something.
00:15:01
Brett
Okay.
00:15:08
Alexis
And so that you know a greenhouse space ah is usually a good space for red wigglers.
00:15:12
atack2010
Thanks.
00:15:13
Alexis
And so what they did was they had all their benches and like their hanging baskets right and then underneath the benches they had stack like worm bins like all the way down the benches and so they were able to utilize some space that they wouldn't have normally ah down in there and I always thought that was pretty cool to utilize that and then all their like compost ingredients are right. close at hand. So ah that was a good way to use it. And like, of course, because the more mass you have, the warmer it stays in the in the winter.
00:15:41
Josh
Yeah.
00:15:43
Alexis
So it just kind of helped to add some some mass in there for thermal issues. But anyways, I thought that was fascinating. And I'm like, into it. I want to do it. There's an organic grower here in my ah county for a couple years. He has like a big, it's like one of those big dump bed trailers, you know what I'm talking about?
00:15:58
Josh
Yeah.
00:16:01
Alexis
And it has um one of the, what's the word I'm looking for where the bed rolls and kicks off stuff. What am I, what am I thinking?
00:16:10
Josh
Like kind of like a conveyor or like a manure spreader.
00:16:12
Alexis
Conveyor. Yeah.
00:16:12
atack2010
A manure spreader, something like that.
00:16:12
Alexis
So it has a, yes.
00:16:13
Josh
Yeah.
00:16:13
Alexis
Yeah. So it's like a conveyor. Um, so it's, it's like a maneuver spreader, but not, it isn't actually one of those. Um, but it thought he converted the whole thing into a giant worm bin and then like can just use it.
00:16:19
Josh
Right.
00:16:19
Brett
Mhmm.
00:16:23
Josh
Whoa.
00:16:25
Alexis
Yeah. It's wild. And he's got some weird things to be able to heat it and, you know, do that kind of stuff, but, uh, it's fascinating.
00:16:27
Brett
Mhmm.
00:16:32
Alexis
So he's like doing worm farming on a big scale.
00:16:33
Brett
Whoa.
00:16:36
Brett
Yeah.
00:16:36
atack2010
I hear lots of comparison and between like composting.
00:16:39
atack2010
you know And some of the concepts are the same between worm composting.
00:16:39
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:16:42
atack2010
But I guess what you're saying, Alexa, I mean, that's something that's different about worm composting. It doesn't give off heat like microbes would in a typical composting situation then. So that's that's a big difference, sounds like.
00:16:52
Alexis
Yeah.
00:16:53
Brett
Well, so before before we jump into the contrasts and comparisons and things like that,
00:16:54
Alexis
yeah Yeah.
00:16:59
Alexis
Yeah.
00:16:59
Brett
Alexis, paint us a picture. you say You claim to have had a worm bin for 11 years, which means you've gotten a whole lot of looks at it.
00:17:04
atack2010
ah allegedly.
00:17:06
Brett
What does it look like?
00:17:06
Alexis
yeah
00:17:07
Brett
How did you do it? What's the what's the vibe? Was it it very expensive and difficult to set up?
00:17:12
Alexis
So I have had two different worm bins. The first one and the one I still have is the one that has been the most successful. The fancier one that someone gave me that is like over a hundred dollars. If you buy online, someone didn't want it anymore. I failed at miserably. So I'm going to, the cheap easy way is what I have done best.
00:17:27
Josh
That's
Troubleshooting Vermicomposting Issues
00:17:32
Alexis
ah with And so ah that is, it's literally two plastic totes that you can just get at the store. ah It can be, they can pretty much be any size. Mine are like, um forget how many gallons they are, but they're the bigger totes that you can get. But I know I've done workshops with some students who have dorms and they, we've just done little small ones, but still the same thought process. There's two totes. In one of the totes, you're going to drill small holes in the very bottom, and you want them small enough that the worms aren't going to be easily falling through there. ah But you want the liquid to be able to drain because the benefit of just like with regular compost, but it's a little bit easier to harvest, is vermicompost, you can get compost tea off of that as well. So you're getting the tea, which is that liquid, and then you're also getting ah the actual physical composted, the worm poop.
00:18:23
Alexis
It's vermicasting, vermicasting, castings, worm castings.
00:18:24
Josh
Yeah, worm castings is what I first heard.
00:18:25
Brett
casting eyes.
00:18:28
Josh
yeah
00:18:28
Alexis
Yeah. And so, um, anyways, so you've got one tote with holes in it. That's the one that you keep the lid on and then you nest that tote in the other one. Uh, and I, you, I put just like old milk jugs, like kind of crushed up milk, jub jugs and water bottles just to elevate it a little bit more. So they're not nesting too completely. And then you put the lid on. That's it.
00:18:53
Josh
Nice.
00:18:53
Brett
And and the second the second container has no holes in the bottom.
00:18:53
Alexis
Yeah.
00:18:56
Alexis
Correct, right. It just cut it it catches the tea and any rogue worms that fall in there. It's to collect the liquid.
00:19:02
Brett
or Or any other excess, just excess juice in any sort of, yeah, cool.
00:19:05
Alexis
Mm-hmm. Juices.
00:19:08
Brett
Yeah, and so like the just to give people a a sense of size, the the smaller ones, I'm guessing were around maybe the size of a shoe box or so and the ones that you have the bigger ones are maybe 24 inches by 18 inches by maybe 18 inches deep or so.
00:19:08
Josh
What about?
00:19:14
Alexis
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
00:19:22
Brett
You know, it's there, you know, as you're saying,
00:19:23
Alexis
Yeah, they it's a little deeper than that, but I can't believe I can't.
00:19:28
atack2010
I've heard, I've heard when though there was a lot of those workshops years ago and I forget if, it um, if it was actually, I was born or there were some other, okay, I thought so, but, um, helped her a little bit with some of those, you know, just grunt labor, but, um, it seems like, uh, there was a, uh, some discussion on depth.
00:19:33
Alexis
It was, it was Ashley Osborne, yeah. Hey, Ashley.
00:19:44
atack2010
I'm trying to recall from memory not to get it too deep because you're using walk to get that started, uh, Alexis and Brad.
00:19:47
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:19:49
atack2010
those of you that have some experience like shredded newspapers and they warned me they were like well don't get go too deep I guess is that a compression problem or what's up with that like if you go the actual material yeah yeah and yeah the depth of material not the container yeah
00:19:58
Brett
Well, the depth only really refers to the material that's inside. You could theoretically do it in a 10-foot tall container if you wanted to, but you just can't build it up too deep.
00:20:02
Alexis
Mm hmm.
00:20:05
Alexis
Mm hmm.
00:20:07
Brett
ah Alexis, do you have any thoughts on that?
00:20:07
Alexis
Mm hmm.
00:20:11
Alexis
Yeah, I think the, and and from that to to expand a little bit more on that, yeah, so you you're starting out, you're only adding you know a little bit at a time. And so that can still build up.
00:20:21
atack2010
Mm hmm.
00:20:22
Alexis
So you could feel, so if you got 10 gallons,
Benefits of Worm Composting
00:20:25
Alexis
you may be doing one gallon and then um you know they go through that and you're adding some more and then adding some more. So that depth can build up in my experience, ah but you, before you harvest it, ah but um you just, ah if you add too much all at one time, they can't process it quickly enough.
00:20:34
atack2010
Mm hmm.
00:20:41
Brett
All
00:20:42
Alexis
So that's when you get like, if you're going to get a smell or a fruit fly problem, it's because you've added too much. They can't eat it fast enough. And so that's usually the biggest issue is you're adding too much ah or not enough moisture, just like regular compost. Right. It's you kind of have to have that good balance.
00:20:58
atack2010
And I know we're talking about composting, and in a previous episode, we talked about if you chop up the material a little bit finer, the microorganisms in the other type of composting occurs more rapidly.
00:20:59
Brett
right.
00:21:08
Alexis
Mm hmm.
00:21:09
atack2010
Is that also true for worm composting, that if you ah chop up the apple versus an entire like apple, it will it occur a little bit more rapidly for the worm?
00:21:12
Brett
you
00:21:18
Alexis
Yeah. Cause cause you've got like, you know, you've got this tiny worm. So it's a lot easier for them to eat, you know, something that's cut up.
00:21:24
atack2010
Mm, gotcha.
00:21:26
Alexis
So absolutely it's, that's why if you've done regular composting, it's sort of like the same thought process.
00:21:27
atack2010
Yeah.
00:21:31
Alexis
The biggest difference is kind of what you're able to add versus not. But if you've done regular composting or vice versa, if you vermicompost it, you can definitely regular compost.
00:21:42
atack2010
And that Burma composting, oh, go ahead.
00:21:42
Brett
And there definitely, there definitely still is microbial activity and in worm bins too.
00:21:46
Alexis
Mhmm.
00:21:47
atack2010
Oh, man.
00:21:47
Brett
You know, it's part of like a little simulated simplified soil web of sorts where, you know, certain things are getting broken down to elements that the worms can then eat.
00:21:48
Alexis
Mhmm.
00:21:51
Alexis
Mhmm.
00:21:52
Josh
and Right.
00:21:57
Brett
You know, it's not like the worms necessarily always are just going and taking a big bite of lettuce. It could be the things that have been broken down, you know, further by some of the fungi and and bacteria. I think another aspect of the depth thing um as Alexis was alluding to, like if you're adding it and the worms are moving up into the food, um in general the the worms, I was reading about this a little bit just to kind of on NC State, ah North Carolina State has some good stuff um through their extension on this, um that like the these worms tend to operate best in the equivalent of like a shallow soil depth, you know, like no more than maybe
00:22:10
atack2010
Oh.
00:22:12
Alexis
Mhmm.
00:22:22
Alexis
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:22:35
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:22:35
Brett
eight or 10 inches in a soil environment. and in ah in a so I think it has has partially to do with the oxygen situation.
00:22:42
Josh
Yeah.
00:22:43
Brett
and Also, as Alexis pointed out, like basically, the worms aren't going to start on a huge thick layer of stuff and eat their way through it downward.
00:22:54
Alexis
Right.
00:22:54
Brett
They're just going to eat at the layer that they eat at, and then if there's food available to them above, that's added slowly and gradually like she was saying, they will eat up into that. But it's not like it's you know going to just chomp, chomp, chomp all the way down to the bottom. And you're going to end up with a bed of gross hypo ah hypoxic, you know ah no oxygen rotting material that's going to smell terrible and attract all kinds of other things.
00:23:11
Alexis
you
00:23:18
Brett
And so you're kind of just building these soil profiles. And they're like almost like ah layers of sedimentary rock or something. You're imagining a cross section or a sundae, ice cream sundae, maybe lasagna.
00:23:24
Alexis
Mm-hmm. Lasagna.
00:23:29
Josh
Yeah, the soil horizon with the parent material.
00:23:34
Brett
um that that you're sort of building those over time and they're moving up through it and processing it. And I would echo the the times where I got into trouble the most was when I fed too much too quickly and they just can't eat it.
00:23:41
Alexis
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
00:23:49
Brett
And that then creates nasty situation inside there, which isn't good for their health.
00:23:53
atack2010
Mmm.
00:23:54
Brett
So it slows them down even more. It just is this vicious cycle. So as in most things in life, balance is the way
00:23:59
Alexis
I think that when I had that happen was when I had, after I had harvested that for my bin for the first time. And so naturally as part of the harvesting situation, you will lose some worms, right?
00:24:07
atack2010
Mmm.
00:24:11
Alexis
Just cause like there's, you can only get so many to come out of the compost and so you lose them. So my worm population was low. And I was thinking, Oh, well, they've, they've not eaten. I got it because I kind of slow down, right?
00:24:23
Josh
they're hungry in there my baby
00:24:24
Alexis
They're hungry.
00:24:24
Josh
like
00:24:24
Alexis
They haven't, you know, I disrupted their home. I've got to get them all new bedding. So I added a lot of food. Um, and that was, they, there was not enough of them to do, to do the work that fast and just kind of the shock of it all, um, was part of it.
00:24:37
atack2010
Mm hmm.
00:24:38
Alexis
So ah that's something to think about, learn from our mistakes.
00:24:43
atack2010
Seems like I've read somewhere's, you know, a pound of worms is like 1000. They use any of the title, the red wigglers, a pound of those is about 1000 worms and they can eat 25% of their body weight per day, which is pretty and incredible.
00:24:49
Josh
They're hungry in there, my babies.
00:24:55
Josh
That's, I've read that too and it was like mind blowing.
00:24:58
Alexis
Mmhmm.
00:24:58
Josh
Yeah.
00:24:59
atack2010
Yeah.
00:24:59
Josh
That's like if I ate 60 pounds of food in a day.
00:25:00
atack2010
So ah Yeah, it's i mean yeah i new I know that the process can happen quickly, but I have limited experience with that. But that as far as planning numbers, I was very curious, well, how much can you feed a worm bin?
00:25:10
Alexis
Mmhmm.
00:25:11
Josh
Right.
00:25:12
atack2010
That if it's broken down well, I was like, that's that's a lot of organic material that goes in there. If you have, let's say, a pound of worms, and I can eat a quarter of a pound of you know organic materials under ideal conditions per day.
00:25:21
Alexis
Mmhmm.
00:25:23
Josh
In a day.
00:25:25
atack2010
and And some of the estimates were a little higher, but I always go with the lower estimates to keep from getting in trouble. Because I imagine that there would be a smell like you were talking about, Brett, that if you overdo it a little bit, I guess, on the the food source that you put in, the organic source.
00:25:33
Alexis
Mmhmm.
00:25:38
Alexis
And I think it depends also on your, your food source or just like, uh, a good compost is usually a few different items in it, you know, to to get the best thing in my experience, Brett, you share in yours.
00:25:41
atack2010
Hmm.
00:25:50
Alexis
Uh, so I like if I've just harvested something or, um, there were a lot, like since I had mine at my office, sometimes our agents would you know be preparing a recipe and they'd have a lot of strawberry tops or, you know, some older blueberries or something.
00:26:04
Brett
Good.
00:26:06
Alexis
You never want to put anything moldy in there. That's one thing. If it's moldy or like bad, you don't want to put that in there.
00:26:09
Josh
Mm.
00:26:12
Alexis
But strawberry tops or banana peels, if they've made a big recipe, I'd put a lot of that, you know, what we would in normal composting kind of refer to as green stuff. And even if it wasn't, you know, if they really did.
00:26:21
Josh
Mm.
00:26:24
Alexis
consume it pretty quickly. The next thing I might add might be something a little bit more of what we would maybe call a brown in normal composting so it would be like shredded newspaper or really finely shredded cardboard or something like that just to kind of mix that up those dry to wet ingredients and some I think that helps ah helps a lot with making sure there's no smell involved. I also use a lot of coffee grounds, which I think does help as well, ah which is good for them, coffee grounds.
00:26:51
Josh
Okay.
00:26:52
Alexis
And that's one that I've heard mixed results on. Some people, the internet said like, don't use coffee grounds, it's bad, but my worms have been eating it for 11 years and everybody, I tell everybody to do it and and their worms are living.
00:27:02
Josh
Okay.
00:27:05
Alexis
So I think that...
00:27:06
atack2010
Depends on the quality of the coffee, Alexis.
00:27:08
Alexis
Well, I will say when i I had a friend who had an espresso machine and she was like holding all of her grounds for me and I was giving them to the worms in chunks at time.
00:27:08
Brett
Oh
00:27:16
Alexis
And man, I went through, the worm bin went through food a lot faster when I gave them espresso, espresso grounds.
00:27:22
atack2010
You juiced them up.
00:27:22
Brett
yeah.
00:27:24
atack2010
You got them going.
00:27:24
Josh
Hm.
00:27:25
atack2010
You got them going.
00:27:25
Alexis
Yeah. I had to really feed them for the next couple of weeks after they got that dose.
00:27:30
Brett
That's awesome. I think I do think the feeding amount ratio thing is a little, it's not deceptive per se, but it's, it's almost like, um, assessing how fast your car is based on what its top speed is.
00:27:43
atack2010
Mm hmm.
00:27:43
Alexis
Yeah.
00:27:44
Brett
And in reality, you know, if you're driving two cars might have the same top speed, but one of them is able to get there in five seconds.
00:27:51
Alexis
Mm hmm.
00:27:51
atack2010
Mm hmm.
00:27:51
Brett
The other one that's going to take 15.
00:27:53
Alexis
Mm hmm.
00:27:54
Brett
I think depending on the the the ah way that the worms are taken care of, the way that they're acclimated, the time of year that they ship, um the time of year that you're you know sort of bringing them into, yeah, all those things.
00:28:03
Josh
Yeah.
00:28:04
Alexis
How warm it is in that area, yeah.
00:28:08
Brett
um I think you can, like that is the rating I would i experienced when the bin the bin was up and operating at its full potential was that, but they weren't able to do that for like for me for like weeks, if not months.
00:28:17
atack2010
Mm-hmm ideal conditions. Yeah Yeah, mmm makes sense Different ages, yeah
00:28:25
Brett
Um, just cause they're, you know, they're acclimating a new environment and the ones that are not going to do as well or dying and the ones that are going to do better or kind of. Yeah.
00:28:33
Alexis
Slow.
00:28:33
Brett
Um, and so, so I think, I think that is when you're, once you get it going, like Alexis has.
00:28:34
Alexis
Yeah.
00:28:38
Alexis
A
00:28:40
Brett
and you sort of develop, just like with anything else in your life, you develop this feel and this like intuition almost.
00:28:42
Alexis
feeling.
00:28:45
Brett
or the this It becomes pretty maintenance-free, but in the initial stages, it it can be kind of touch and go of, like was that too much or was that too little?
00:28:50
Alexis
Mhmm.
00:28:56
Brett
and I would say one thing I would err on, I personally would err on the side of feeding too little at the start.
00:28:57
Alexis
Mhmm.
00:29:00
Alexis
Mhmm.
00:29:03
Brett
um you know You might have some hungry worms and some of them might theoretically die, but I would much rather do it deal with that than poison their environment.
00:29:10
Alexis
Yeah.
00:29:11
Josh
ah yeah that I was going to ask, don't do they just kind of metabolically slow down if there isn't a ton of food around?
00:29:13
Alexis
Mhmm.
00:29:15
atack2010
Or do they try to crawl out of the bin?
00:29:17
Alexis
Mhmm.
00:29:17
Josh
Yeah, so it seems like it's way more forgiving to kind of
00:29:20
Alexis
Yeah, yeah it it really is.
00:29:20
atack2010
Yeah. yeah
00:29:22
Alexis
And it it's very easy. for I like it because it's, I think, easy for new ah like new people because you can just open the bin and look to see how much food is in there. um So like I used to be told a lot of people will say, cover the food. ah So you you might if you put if you put banana peels, whatever, you put in there and then you maybe cover that up with a new little newspaper.
00:29:36
atack2010
Yeah, I was going to ask about that.
00:29:44
Alexis
You can do that. ah Sometimes I do and sometimes I don't and I don't think it's 100% necessary as long as that lid is dark and it stays on ah because they just want to be able to basically eat in the dark. So you know what I mean?
00:29:55
atack2010
I was wondering about the fruit flies.
00:29:56
Josh
I hear that.
00:29:56
Alexis
they it It probably would help them but maybe mine I've just acclimated to not.
00:29:57
atack2010
If you have a fruit fly problem.
00:29:57
Josh
Relatable. but
00:29:58
atack2010
problem
00:30:03
Alexis
So I don't always do that and the I like to be able to open that up and go, If I'm about to give them something in a larger quantity, I can look in and be like, well, did they finish what they got before I give them something else?
00:30:13
Josh
hahaha
00:30:14
Alexis
And if they haven't, then that might go in my regular compost bin outside. Uh, but if they have, then I kind of know. And so I think that it's forgiving in that way where you can just open it up, look to see what's happening.
00:30:24
atack2010
Mm-hmm.
00:30:25
Alexis
And if you can still see the banana peel half eaten, then don't, you maybe don't need to feed them or maybe just add some of those drier ingredients just to give them a little bit of an option.
00:30:30
atack2010
Yeah.
00:30:37
Brett
So it seems like we've we've moved in a little bit into the comparison and contrasting of traditional, you know, kind of compost pile outdoor activity versus the worm bin and a little bit of the contrast, contrasting um aspects of it.
00:30:37
atack2010
ah
00:30:40
Alexis
Mmhmm.
00:30:54
Brett
And I'll say I no longer do Verma posting.
00:30:54
Alexis
Mmhmm.
00:30:59
Brett
And so um I can explore or I can share why why I don't. But ah Alexis, as far as you just mentioned that you have both. both regular composting and vermiposting. Why? what's the What's the reasoning there to have both? i follow I understand why one might, but some of our listeners may be wondering.
00:31:22
Alexis
um Because i'm probably but I'm usually producing more um compostable materials than the worms can handle. So that's one reason. i don't If I don't want to throw it in the trash, I have another option.
00:31:33
atack2010
you
00:31:35
Alexis
ah The next reason is because not everything that goes in the regular compost can go to the worms.
00:31:43
Josh
Mm hmm.
00:31:43
Alexis
So the easiest way to determine whether or not something is warm friendly which most things are but if it's something that might bother your eyes like if you were to stick it up close to your eye like a more get juicing your eyes so like an onion or a you know citrus right if you get orange juice in your eyes gonna burn there that membrane what.
00:32:03
Brett
ah hot pepper Hot peppers peppers
00:32:06
Alexis
Hot peppers, exactly. That membrane that is on their skin is sort of like like the membrane. i I've been told, I'm not a wormologist or anything, but I've been told that is very similar to kind of the membrane around your eye.
00:32:15
Josh
Hahaha.
00:32:19
Alexis
And so that's a good way to think about it is if it would bother your eye to touch it, it shouldn't go in the compost bin. And that's been the easiest way that to teach people. So those onions, hot peppers, citrus, ah garlic, yeah.
00:32:34
atack2010
Garlic. Not that you would have a lot of garlic, I guess that would be unusual.
00:32:40
Alexis
Yeah, none of that goes to waste in my ass.
00:32:41
atack2010
Unless you...
00:32:42
Alexis
None of that can go in the worm bin.
00:32:43
atack2010
It goes in the tummy bend, the belly bend.
00:32:44
Alexis
So that goes in my regular compost bin. Yeah, it goes in.
00:32:47
Josh
All right, if Alexis doesn't eat it, then the worms can have a snack and then that isn't, then it goes to the outside.
00:32:51
atack2010
Yes.
00:32:53
Alexis
No, yeah, no, I just.
00:32:57
Brett
with the ah With the option for Alexis to eat it again in between the worm and the...
00:33:00
Josh
not Why didn't you guys like this, chomp, chomp?
00:33:01
atack2010
Yeah. To re-recycle,
00:33:04
Alexis
Chop, chop, it's.
00:33:04
Brett
i
00:33:06
atack2010
yeah We're talking about all these food sources, um and I may have ah ah missed over it, but ah like um adding moisture. like I know that you mentioned the membranes of the worm. How do you guys monitor moisture? How do you know when it's too dry or when it's too wet? i mean How do you kind of monitor that other than just trial and error? i mean Do you have a method, you all?
00:33:26
Brett
Well, so i I watched, there's actually a really nice video from NC State on vermicomposting and the
00:33:31
Josh
Yeah.
Advanced Techniques and Personal Composting Journeys
00:33:32
Brett
person in there, agent, educator, whatever they call them down there.
00:33:36
Brett
um Showed how to build the container, showed how to get it set up. And she she mentioned a a number of like 80% relative humidity inside the container. um That's pretty, that's pretty juicy. um You know, in a normal human, human comfortable environment somewhere between 45 and 55% relative humidity, you know, when and it's terrible outside and I have to go do work.
00:33:49
Josh
Yeah.
00:34:01
Brett
It's always 80% humidity outside and that's pretty rough.
00:34:03
Josh
sure Right, right.
00:34:03
Alexis
If you're lucky, it's 80.
00:34:04
Brett
Yeah. um But I think ah she mentioned that and she mentioned like using some like something like Alexis was talking about as far as the brown material to set up a bedding mix by getting something like shredded newspaper, shredded cardboard, something like that, and wetting it down to the point that it's going to create and maintain moisture inside of the of the container. I will say, and this is something, I have this theory that you have you as you learn about who you are as a person and your tendencies, the there are people who tend to overdo and there are people who tend to underdo and with water, with all kinds of other things.
00:34:36
Alexis
she Just like with a house plant, I feel like it's like,
00:34:48
Brett
And once you figure out which version of that you are, air on the other side of that. So for me, I would tend I'd be like, I have a problem if I get thirsty, and I'm like dehydrated, I freak out.
00:34:53
Alexis
excuse
00:35:00
Brett
And so I would have a tendency to get my worms a little too much moisture sometimes. And so I just be like, Okay, that looks a little bit concerning to me. That's probably the right amount.
00:35:09
Josh
All right.
00:35:09
Alexis
Mm
00:35:10
Brett
Whereas someone who's like, I don't know, I'm gonna let it dry out.
00:35:13
Josh
right
00:35:14
Brett
Maybe Okay, let's go a little more than you think so. But ah that that was how I did it.
00:35:17
Alexis
-hmm.
00:35:18
Brett
How do you do Alexis?
00:35:19
Alexis
I don't like I just did my worm bin so I actually like know what I did. um So I don't wet down my bedding but what I do add is moisture rich food.
00:35:26
Brett
Okay.
00:35:33
Alexis
So I tear my bedding small like in thin strips.
00:35:33
Josh
Mmm.
00:35:36
Alexis
I'm usually using newspaper to do that or like I said like a like a you know that thin ah cardboard packing material like it's just ah it's cardboard but it's like a real thin one. So I'm tearing that into some thin strips, uh, putting it down in there. And then I use a moisture rich food. So banana peels, apple cores, you know, those lettuce, those types of things. Uh, and I put that on top of the bedding and usually I have found, um, that that is enough moisture to get them started because I'm the person who will, I'll over, I'll, I would overdo it.
00:36:11
Alexis
And so that seems to be a good, a good mix for me.
00:36:11
Brett
Hmm.
00:36:14
Alexis
So I don't usually add any type of water. I just add a moisture rich food and then the coffee grounds I add will have some moisture in there as well. So that seems to work pretty well for me.
00:36:24
Brett
And is that is that's more like as a maintenance ah routine or is that is that like if you were setting up a bin from from.
00:36:30
Alexis
that That was, so when I just harvested my bin, I basically started from an empty bin, right? It was the same bin I always used, but I dumped it out on a bit in a big box, went through it, picked as many worms as I could out, harvested all the all the compost.
00:36:36
Brett
Gotcha.
00:36:44
Alexis
And then I put back in, ah you know, a smaller handful of ah worms with some of the compost. Very similar to what you'll get in a bag. You'll get them in a little bit of a media. and you'll get your one pound of worms in sort of a peat-type media usually.
00:36:59
Josh
I
00:36:59
Alexis
ah So very similar to that. And then I put them right on that fresh bedding with that those moisture-rich foods. And when I peaked in after a week ah just yesterday, ah they were going ham on some, ah yeah, going espresso on some on some bananas and apple cores that were in there.
00:37:06
Josh
am.
00:37:16
atack2010
go epresso
00:37:24
Brett
Yeah, so one thing you just mentioned was you said you checked on him after a week. which is a ah sign of an experienced worm keeper that you're not, if you get them new, like I did, and I had no experience, I was checking on them like multiple times per day.
00:37:28
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:37:32
Josh
said
00:37:35
Alexis
Aw!
00:37:38
Brett
And every time you do that, it loses moisture.
00:37:41
Alexis
Uh-huh.
00:37:41
Brett
And so it becomes a little bit more of a potential concern.
00:37:42
atack2010
going to espresso.
00:37:44
Brett
And so one of the tips that the person said, if you do need to add moisture, use like a spritzing bottle or something like that.
00:37:46
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:37:49
Brett
Don't just like dump water into the bitt into the bin. drown them all or at least traumatize them to the point that they don't want to eat ah eat any vegetable scraps anymore.
00:37:56
Josh
I said.
00:37:59
Brett
but Well, so maybe maybe I'll just share a couple of the reasons why I don't ah do it anymore. um So I would say, yeah, mission accomplished.
00:38:07
Alexis
You got married and you didn't need it anymore?
00:38:08
atack2010
Yeah, I was going to say you already have Annie. That's why you don't. Is that it?
00:38:12
Josh
but
00:38:12
Brett
Get rid of these worms.
00:38:13
atack2010
Nailed it. Got it done.
00:38:15
Josh
done their job
00:38:16
Brett
Yeah. Thank you for your service, worms.
00:38:19
atack2010
Worm daddy.
00:38:19
Brett
um So one one reason is that you mentioned the volume thing. So ah i'm ah I'm a pretty large person. And for for a lady, my wife is also a fairly tall and active person. And so we go through a lot. And if for a long time, we were vegan and now we're mostly, um well, we're vegetarian.
00:38:37
Alexis
Mm hmm.
00:38:40
Brett
And so we go through a lot of food scraps.
00:38:40
Josh
They've done their job.
00:38:41
Alexis
Mm hmm.
00:38:43
Brett
Like we generate so much food waste. We would have to have
00:38:47
Alexis
Mm hmm.
00:38:49
Brett
You mentioned the two pounds or 20% of their body weight or 25% of the body weight or whatever, we would have to have a real operation going of worms to eat it all.
00:38:50
Alexis
Mm hmm.
00:38:53
Josh
Nana.
00:38:56
atack2010
Haha.
00:38:59
Brett
And in the midst of life and ah other interests and other things like that, it's easier for me to just throw it into the regular compost bin, turn that every once in a while if I feel like it.
00:39:09
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:39:11
Brett
If I don't, then I don't. um Part of the corollary to that is the fact that you mentioned about the um the comfort zone for worms as far as temperature goes. So I would have to have, you have to, I mean, in essence, I think of it, you have to keep it inside your living space or inside a livable space.
00:39:32
Alexis
Right.
00:39:34
Josh
Hey, you got that detached garage.
00:39:34
Brett
And, right.
00:39:35
Josh
Boom. All worms.
00:39:37
Alexis
Just containers stacked floor to ceiling worms.
00:39:40
Josh
Just a nice 80% humidity in there all the time.
00:39:42
atack2010
There's just a sign over the door called the worm bin.
00:39:44
Brett
Yeah. We don't know why the roof keeps rotting off of this garage.
00:39:47
Josh
No mold.
00:39:50
Brett
It's really strange. um But like the garage is an example, you know, it gets gets way too cold in the winter and it gets way too hot in the summer. um And so it's just not feasible. If I were looking to have like a pet worm bin and it was fun for me and cool or like There was an office opportunity you know where you have, I think those are great things.
00:40:10
Alexis
Mm hmm.
00:40:12
Brett
And if you live in an apartment and if you just really want to do it, it's really, really cool.
00:40:17
Alexis
Mm hmm.
00:40:17
Brett
And an advantage of the worms and something that I really think is is neat is that they will
00:40:23
Alexis
Mm hmm.
00:40:23
Brett
pound for pound as far as what goes into the bin, they will chew through it way faster than a traditional compost bin. Like they will, as you said, they will tear it up.
00:40:29
Alexis
Oh, yeah.
00:40:29
Josh
Goodnight.
00:40:32
Brett
It's just the amount that they're able to process at the scale that I'm able to store year round would not be nearly enough.
00:40:34
Alexis
Right.
00:40:37
atack2010
Mm
00:40:38
Brett
and And in the absence of infinite time, I've decided to you know, step away from that and just throw stuff in the compost pile. But that that's my reasoning is and that's the main to me, the main weakness of the worm bin is just the the throughput capacity, the amount that it's able to handle.
00:40:48
Alexis
Yeah.
00:40:56
Alexis
Yeah, I kind of think of it as sort of the extra special something that I'm going to use. So I really, and I really like the worm tea.
00:41:02
atack2010
-hmm
00:41:04
Alexis
So I don't know if you use the like, uh, the drip, the drippins very much Brett, but I have, I, um, so I,
00:41:09
Brett
Great with Rome.
00:41:13
Josh
probiotics.
00:41:15
Brett
To be clear, do not drink the worm tea.
00:41:17
Alexis
do not. ah It is.
00:41:19
Josh
but
00:41:19
Brett
Tea is just a term used as a fun way of describing it.
00:41:25
atack2010
The
00:41:25
Alexis
Yeah, it's a warm juice.
00:41:25
Brett
What can you use it for? I was curious to get to this part.
00:41:28
Alexis
The worm. Yeah, I don't.
00:41:30
Brett
The specialness of worm castings and tea I think is something that is really interesting and it's something I know a lot less about.
00:41:31
Alexis
Water.
00:41:32
atack2010
fluent.
00:41:37
Alexis
Yeah, I've been using it. So I use it in special, more special scenarios than I would like regular compost. And so that's where I have seen the most benefit. So that, that tea is a lot even faster. So worm compost, you know, if you're feeding regularly, you're doing everything right. You can, you can harvest your, if it's a, like my bigger bin, which is a relatively large one for, for worms, for a home worm bin, uh, I can harvest probably every two months, maybe faster than that.
00:41:57
atack2010
you
00:42:06
Alexis
If I was taking in. like really keeping up with it. And, but that tea, I could probably every two weeks pull out a good amount of it. And I love to use that to wet my potting mix. So that tea is full of all these really good, um, uh, microbes, all of this, like it's just good, good juices. And so there's its own, uh, microbiome just in that water as well as, you know, nutrients that the worms have passed through and and are now plant available.
00:42:37
Alexis
And so when I'm doing seeds seeding and stuff like that, I go through a lot of potting mix. It has to be wet down so that it's not hydrophobic. And so I will use that tea to do that. And I have seen my seedlings are very, very happy. I just feel like they are greener, take off faster when I do that. And I also will use the castings when I do harvest. I'll mix a small amount of that in with my actual potting media. ah to to just plant my seedlings in and so I just did that recently and they're all super happy and I think I'm going to be able to get them in the ground at a really good rate but I've used them and I've got a huge houseplant collection as you can imagine and so I will when I repot my houseplants I'll use that you can top dress you know you don't even need to have to be repotting you can top dress your stuff
00:43:26
Alexis
And then if I've got an area of a bed that maybe is struggling in some way, maybe I had to rogue out a bunch of plants and I took a bunch of topsoil with it, I'll add back. It's like a superfood is kind of the way I think about it. um Just like a superfood, it really energizes the soil, really feeds those microbes again. So I'll lay that stuff out in a problem area that I might have.
00:43:48
atack2010
So it's a both for some fertility and I've read some interesting things on on worm castings for fertility, but it's also a soil modifier much like traditional compost.
00:43:57
Alexis
Yeah.
00:43:57
Josh
Yeah.
00:43:58
atack2010
so So you get a double whammy kind of boost from that is as far as what you're getting, truly getting.
00:43:58
Alexis
Yeah. Yeah.
00:44:02
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
Worms as Nature's Farmers and Final Encouragement
00:44:04
Brett
There's also some interesting out there kind of suggests suggestions about, I mean, this is within within scientific literature parameters, but um I think still very much on the fringe about the production of plant growth regulating hormones by worms um that that regulate and in some ways promote healthy growth ah that is not present in compost, which is kind of crazy.
00:44:04
atack2010
and
00:44:15
Alexis
Little woo-woo. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:44:31
Josh
Yeah, you've heard people refer to like them as like the original farmers because they're like conditioning and creating the conditions for themselves.
00:44:32
Alexis
I know people.
00:44:38
Alexis
Habitat.
00:44:39
Josh
Yeah.
00:44:40
Alexis
Yeah.
00:44:40
Brett
we could be We could be like them, where do we go wrong?
00:44:44
Josh
We would get out in the sunlight. We all need to dig underground and live underground and eat in the dark.
00:44:48
Brett
and Burrow, dig deep for a better life, that's my campaign slogan.
00:44:50
Alexis
You're not not mole people, worm people.
00:44:57
Alexis
I like it. All right. ah Worms 2024.
00:44:59
atack2010
But before we before we wrap up here, and this is always a question I have with compost. um If you guys could talk just a little bit about your the way that you harvest, because I'm thinking worm compost, how in the world do you separate the worms from the compost? And I'm assuming there's sort of a sort of a process there you guys have when you harvest the the worm castings and things and get the worms away from that casting into a fresh you know area.
00:45:26
Alexis
Have you done it, Brett?
00:45:27
atack2010
like
00:45:29
Brett
shine a light, shine a light.
00:45:31
atack2010
Yeah, that's what they don't they don't like that particular type of worm doesn't like the light.
00:45:32
Alexis
Let on me.
00:45:33
Brett
Yeah.
00:45:36
atack2010
Is that what's going on?
00:45:37
Brett
But they, I think they use the light as a reference point for where the earth ends and the air begins and their life gets worse.
00:45:38
atack2010
Yeah.
00:45:44
atack2010
e
00:45:46
Brett
Um, and so, so they feel like it, it makes them feel like almost artificially, like they've moved closer to the surface.
00:45:47
atack2010
The more don't go towards the light.
00:45:51
Alexis
I'm too high.
00:45:54
atack2010
Yeah.
00:45:54
Brett
And so they need to dig deeper. And so they will generally go away from it. I was experimenting actually um with trying to get them to fully move out of their castings and into a ah second or I guess a third bin.
00:46:07
Josh
in the room.
00:46:08
Alexis
Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
00:46:10
atack2010
Yeah.
00:46:10
Brett
So you've got your base bin that catches, you've got your top bin, like what Alexis described with the holes in it. And in this case, it would be like big enough that they could fit through it, but not just like a fall through it accidentally.
00:46:19
Alexis
Mm hmm.
00:46:23
Brett
And then a second bin or a third bin, I guess, that also had holes in it where you could put some food in bedding and try to encourage them to move a middle bin.
00:46:24
Alexis
Mm hmm. A middle bin. Mm hmm.
00:46:33
Brett
So you stack bin with worms into bin with bedding and holes in the bottom into other bin and encourage yeah into the catchment bin and encourage them to move through those holes into their new food source through a blend of
00:46:40
Alexis
Catch my bin.
00:46:49
Brett
just tantalizing them with those sweet, sweet morsels and also ah using a little bit a little bit of light.
00:46:51
atack2010
Yeah.
00:46:53
atack2010
How did that work out? Yeah.
00:46:55
Brett
um It worked okay. i think i I made me wonder if the light alone was just enough, um but they do they do move through the holes.
00:46:57
Alexis
Mm hmm.
00:47:00
atack2010
Hmm.
00:47:01
Alexis
Mm hmm.
00:47:02
Brett
That is for sure.
00:47:03
atack2010
That did work though.
00:47:03
Brett
ah Yeah.
00:47:05
atack2010
Oh, cool.
00:47:05
Brett
What did you do, Alexis?
00:47:06
Alexis
Yeah, there is that that fancy bin system that I've not figured out because it's too dang fancy for me is um ah set up that way where there's um these ah lay these these layers and they they stack on top of each other.
00:47:12
Josh
I think.
00:47:20
Alexis
And it's cool because you can once you harvest from one, you can move it back to the top and and kind of this endless cycle.
00:47:20
atack2010
Hmm.
00:47:24
atack2010
It's almost like we do in beekeeping. It's very it's very similar i mean very similar to queen excluders.
00:47:27
Alexis
Yeah, yeah, it's very similar to that and to get them to move into the different areas.
00:47:27
Brett
Yeah, very similar.
00:47:31
atack2010
Yeah.
00:47:32
Alexis
But I have the simple system. And so I've used the light where I just leave the lid off and let them dive down and I scrape off a layer and they go down deeper and I scrape off a layer.
00:47:41
atack2010
oh god
00:47:42
Alexis
ah What I've begun doing just because of for time's sake and is I dump them all out in a big big box or on a big tarp or whatever and I spread it relatively thin except for one kind of area right in the middle that's a little thicker and then they kind of majority of them go to that thick area to get escape the light.
00:47:42
Josh
We did.
00:48:02
Alexis
I harvest all of the thin stuff and then that ah thick area I put back in into the worm bin and I start over again.
00:48:09
atack2010
Thanks.
00:48:10
Alexis
ah You're going to sacrifice some worms, but the way I think of it is they're not all going to be sacrificed because some of them are living in my house and my houseplants right now.
00:48:10
Brett
Yeah.
00:48:18
Alexis
But um you know some of them will just be there.
00:48:18
Brett
Yeah.
00:48:23
Alexis
They'll do some work while it's still warm. And then when winter hits, they'll probably die and they're not an invasive worm to our area. So I don't feel bad about doing that.
00:48:33
Brett
Yeah.
00:48:35
Josh
to join the soil food web.
00:48:35
Brett
what one other One other thing I think just to point out about the worm versus a regular typical compost pile, and this is only it this only really um applies if your actual your other compost pile actually gets hot enough to be able to kill microbes.
00:48:52
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:48:56
Brett
But they a worm bin does not get hot. By definition, we've talked with Alexis or Alexis mentioned, like, no, they actually like it pretty chill, similar temperatures to what we like.
00:48:58
Alexis
No.
00:49:04
Alexis
Same. Yeah.
00:49:06
Brett
And so that means it's never going to get hot enough to kill any sort of microbial anything. um And it's just it's just something to think about.
00:49:11
Alexis
Right.
00:49:14
Brett
A lot of people who neglect their compost piles see me. ah They don't get that hot anyway, either.
00:49:19
Josh
Yeah.
00:49:21
Brett
And in fact, they get into this like
00:49:22
Alexis
Yeah, name.
00:49:23
Brett
gross zone where they're actually probably promoting some of those things and I'm just turning it and turning it and turning it and letting it kind of just be warm enough long enough.
00:49:29
Alexis
Mhmm.
00:49:31
Brett
But um so there's just something to think about. If you're if you're a dedicated composter or you're interested in putting these out on crops that you're going to maybe use um or I'm sorry not use but you're going to try to sell or you're going to rely on them in some way.
00:49:38
Alexis
Mhmm. Mhmm.
00:49:45
Brett
It's just be careful about what you put in there, make sure you're managing it well. I mean, it's it's it's the general principles of of any sort of um managing those kinds of inputs, but it is something to to think about.
00:49:57
Alexis
So get a worm bin, it's fun.
00:49:59
Brett
Yeah, they they they are very cool. yeah i'm Now I'm like, man, do I need to get a worm bin again?
00:50:04
Alexis
I have worms if you need some, so.
00:50:04
Brett
cause Okay.
00:50:07
atack2010
You're going to get excited about this. bra You're going to have to do it.
00:50:09
Brett
Yeah, well, i I'll go ahead and confess after our compost episode, I finally bit the bullet and did something that I have been wanting to do for a long time, which is I bought a ah shredder capable of shredding cardboard boxes.
00:50:10
atack2010
and what
00:50:24
atack2010
Oh, nice.
00:50:24
Josh
a Oh, wow.
00:50:26
Brett
And so I'm now generating a lot of brown material from what would have gone to land.
00:50:27
atack2010
Yeah.
00:50:27
Alexis
Nice.
00:50:29
Josh
it was
00:50:30
Alexis
To go with all those veggies, yeah.
00:50:32
Brett
Yeah, exactly.
00:50:32
atack2010
Well, it takes up a lot less room once shredded though, I bet. I mean, you can really, I bet it's amazing.
00:50:36
Brett
Oh my gosh, it's crazy.
00:50:38
atack2010
Yeah. I'd love to have one of those.
00:50:38
Brett
It is crazy. Yeah, the ah it's just it's just a standard paper shredder from Amazon, but it's like a 24 sheet capacity or something like that.
00:50:40
atack2010
Yeah.
00:50:47
Alexis
Uh-huh.
00:50:48
Josh
Oh, well okay.
00:50:48
atack2010
Like heavy duty.
00:50:48
Brett
So it's like very beefy and heavy, but ah it is has been well worked, because i was I was literally having to buy brown material, because I just didn't have, I don't have access to, I live in a suburb and I have no have no land.
00:50:55
Alexis
Oh no.
00:50:56
Josh
yeah right
00:50:58
Alexis
Yeah, yeah.
00:51:02
atack2010
No, no oak trees and chop up the wood.
00:51:06
Brett
Yeah, exactly. So now now so you all you all continue to inspire me and now I'm guessing maybe i'll maybe I'll bring some of the spark back for me and Annie by bringing worms.
00:51:14
Josh
You're right.
00:51:16
Brett
Remind us of our younger selves.
00:51:17
Alexis
ah Back in the household.
00:51:18
Brett
Yeah.
00:51:20
Josh
Renew your vows.
00:51:21
atack2010
Yeah, the honeymoon period's back.
00:51:21
Brett
yeah like
00:51:23
Alexis
Over the worm bin.
00:51:24
Josh
yeah
00:51:26
atack2010
Love it.
00:51:26
Alexis
I love it. Well, yeah, if you want any more info on worms, I know I've done lots of presentations on that over the years, and I'd be more than happy to send you a PDF version. So email, ah you know, our emails in the show notes, you can shoot us an email, just say, I need worm help. And we will figure that out. And I will send you, I'm happy to send you that PDF with a little more um instruction in it as and you can also ask us any questions if you've been having trouble with them or you want to get started. ah I'm always eager to help people because I think it's a really great way for anybody to be able to do ah composting and it's just it's I think it's kind of like a super food for your plants. so
00:52:03
Alexis
highly recommend if you've got the time and a little bit of space ah to do that. And you can also follow us on Instagram at hort culture podcast and you can DM us on there. You'll find pictures of my worms ah on there for this episode. So if you've got any questions or want to see what some of that ah harvested compost looks like, because I do think it looks a little bit different than regular compost. Mine is always just black. It's almost it's kind ofs very tacky. ah and In a way, it holds on to a lot of moisture, a lot of nutrients and stuff in there. and ah That, I think, will wrap us up. ah Thank you for being here today with us. We hope that as we grow this podcast, you will grow with us and you'll join us next time. Have a great one.