Transcript
Alexis: Hello, welcome, good day. What other, I feel like I have more sayings for a goodbye, I just wanna sing this song.
atack2010: Greetings.
Josh: Welcome and bienvenue, bonjour.
Alexis: Hola.
atack2010: Audi.
Brett: I once had a um ah once had a call when I first started working in extension from a person, and I won't say their name, but they they left a voicemail and it just said, welcome, welcome. And I'll just say my i'll say my own name in this in the case. They said, this is Brett Wolf, B, R, E. And they spelled out their full name at that pace. And I was like, what have I gotten myself into? So a regular one in our house is, welcome, welcome.
Josh: No.
Alexis: Oh, God.
Alexis: Honestly, i'm I'm expecting a phone call like that ah relatively soon. So if not, I'm going to be disappointed.
Brett: Yeah.
Alexis: So um well, I was thinking.
Brett: i called I call that person back and and they never responded, I guess. I mean, I i don't know.
Alexis: No.
Brett: Maybe I pronounced their name with the incorrect spelling in my reply.
Alexis: I was going to say, maybe maybe ah you said it how it was spelled and not how it's actually supposed to be said.
Brett: Oh yeah, that's true.
Alexis: Mm, rookie mistake.
atack2010: ah
Alexis: Yeah.
Brett: Sorry. Is it worm it? Let get a ah let me work it. Get a bin, put a minute, don't disturb it.
Josh: Man, that was tortured, but beautiful.
atack2010: You pulled that one out of the fire. That was that was descending and all of a sudden you pulled it up so.
Alexis: Yeah.
Brett: Thank you.
Alexis: I know I was a little concerned that you might be having a stroke.
Brett: Well, you know, like, you know, it's times, it's times like this that I'm reminded of Tupac's question, which is, if you see a rose growing up through a crack in the concrete, are you going to say, Oh, that's not as good as the other roses?
Josh: I was like, this is it. This is the big one.
Brett: Or are you going to be impressed that it was able to emerge from that concrete in the first place?
Alexis: I mean, dandelions do it, so.
Brett: Yeah. And you can't spell dandelion without lion roar. I want to see you be brave.
Alexis: We're just pulling all the pop stars out right now.
atack2010: Okay, Katy Perry.
Alexis: i ah yeah Is it me?
atack2010: Yeah, we are.
Josh: i feel like i'm having this stroke
Brett: Yeah. Boom.
Alexis: Am I the one?
Brett: And now how the turntables.
atack2010: ah
Alexis: And Michael Scott.
atack2010: That's why you shouldn't eat caffeine tablets, kids.
Josh: nice
Brett: Why is that?
atack2010: Oh, I didn't ask a question.
Alexis: Brett's like, what? Why?
Brett: Am I, am I the cautionary tale?
atack2010: but it
Alexis: What's in that what's in that cup you got there?
Brett: Oh, you know, I think I've talked about this before, but I'll go ahead and give a shout out to my good friend, Camellia sinensis, AKA tea.
Josh: I feel like I'm having the stroke.
Brett: Um, this is a green tea.
Josh: because
Alexis: o
Brett: Uh, and as I probably have told some of the people who are listening and, or you all maybe before green tea has a, uh, in addition to caffeine, it also has a high dosage of what's of this chemical called L theanine. which is a known mood booster and antidepressant that is able to cross the blood brain barrier. and so that's why when people say drink
atack2010: Much like microplastics.
Brett: Yeah.
Josh: yeah Like a catalyst.
Brett: The microplastics are sort of like, it's like ah a lithium grease situation for the healthy. I mean, yeah. Um, so I'm drinking some of that and I, I must say I do feel as the, as the, I wouldn't say the kids say as the elderly, ah elderly disproportionately like Asian tea drinkers say I'm tea drunk.
Alexis: Boosted.
atack2010: list
Josh: Nice.
Alexis: I learned something new today. Hopefully you you all did too, dear dear listeners. We're learning about tea. We're also going to learn about worms today. So, you know, write on eventually.
atack2010: Eventually.
Josh: me
Brett: That's what, hence my, hence my, my little semi -free style there that was really put it, get yourself a bin, put them in it, don't disturb it.
Alexis: Worm it, let me work it.
atack2010: Segue.
Alexis: I think that might be the title of the episode,
Josh: nice
atack2010: Warm been work it.
Josh: yeah
Alexis: but you you do disturb it and I'm going to tell you all the ways.
Brett: Yeah. Well, they disturb it as much as anything, but verma, verma posting, is this the, is this the vibe we're going for?
Alexis: That's true. They are the ultimate disturbers.
Josh: Verma composting, verma culture, take us into it.
Brett: So, Oh.
Alexis: very Verma compost.
atack2010: No, that's this that's the social media is Verma posting.
Alexis: Yeah.
atack2010: like That's when you post.
Alexis: for Oh, that's their Instagram handle.
atack2010: See?
Brett: Yeah, like what would you do if I was a worm kind of thing?
Alexis: Okay.
atack2010: Yes.
Alexis: um Yeah, that's, that's in their bio.
atack2010: Ooh, I like that.
Brett: Would you still love me if I was a worm? um But we're just to be clear, we're not talking about worms in the garden context.
Alexis: Would you still love me if I was a worm?
atack2010: They say you gotta... to Did I read somewhere that there's over 9 ,000 kinds of worms?
Brett: We're talking about them in a in a created environment used to to break down.
Alexis: Yeah.
atack2010: I read somewhere once and I was like,
Josh: I read that same thing too.
atack2010: That's a lot, that's a lot of worms.
Brett: Yeah, gotta gotta catch them all.
Alexis: And not all of them are good worms.
atack2010: That's a lot of worms. Okay, okay.
Alexis: love Some of them are just cranky.
Josh: Some of them are mean. Some of them are just kind of jerks.
atack2010: Yeah, yeah, lots of worms.
Alexis: Yeah. Like that ah new hammerhead worm, sidetrack hammerhead worm.
atack2010: i Seen the info, but not seen one personally.
Alexis: Have you guys seen the stuff above them? but but They make me ill.
Brett: Yeah, I was hoping you were going to say hammerhead worm the third time.
Josh: No. Do they look like like do they have like a hammerhead with their with whoa.
Alexis: him
atack2010: It's hammer time.
Brett: Hammerhead worm.
Alexis: Yeah. Yeah. So they're like these very, they're very large worms and they're very slimy, which is not.
Josh: Oh, I don't like that at all.
Alexis: Yeah. No.
atack2010: Yeah, they're not toxic.
Alexis: If you go Google it and they do, they have a little hammerhead, like a little hammerhead shark and they're very aggressive and not great for the environment and they're invasive and they are, they're slow, slimy. They creep me out hello like eels.
Josh: Do we get those like here?
Alexis: We're, so we're starting to get them in Kentucky. Yeah. They're being found on Western Kentucky.
atack2010: That is something that you would not put in your worm being.
Josh: I mean, everything in nature is like incredible, but looking at the hammerhead worm, it looks like something out of like a horror deal.
Alexis: Um, yeah, it can be incredible and so creepy, I think, but incredibly creepy, but we're talking about good worms today.
atack2010: Alien.
atack2010: Incredibly creepy. Yeah.
Brett: Yeah, both.
Alexis: We're going to talk about ver, verma compost.
atack2010: Some of the good ones.
Brett: You almost got me started on European Nightcrawlers and Forest Health, but I'm going to put a pin in that and encourage listeners to go and Google it maybe.
Alexis: Put it in that that's a future.
Josh: Hahahaha!
Alexis: If you would like that as an episode, comment, let us know.
Brett: Another thing the Europeans ruined.
Alexis: We're the worst as for ah very pale people talking on this episode.
Brett: Yeah.
Brett: Yeah.
Alexis: One of them blonde. Brett's got some redhead background. I'm pretty confident based on the beard color. So um yeah.
Brett: Yeah.
Alexis: but anyways vermicompost i love talking about vermicompost because it is something you can do even if you live in like an apartment and you might think i'm crazy but i have had a worm bin in my office and in the extension office for 11 years and not once have i had to get rid of them because somebody got mad about like smell or weird things. Okay, one time, I will, out I'm gonna out myself right here.
atack2010: Oh, okay, one time.
Josh: Mm.
Alexis: at One time, I've never told my co workers this. So if they're you're listening, hi.
Alexis: I'll know if they listen based on whether or not they yell at me later. So One time I ah overlooked, i was it was very new, the worm bin was new, I was still learning things about it and I put too much food in it and I got a fruit fly problem happening and they were buzzing all over but nobody realized that I had a worm bin in my office and no one blamed me for it.
Brett: Oh, yeah Yeah, look yeah look
Josh: yeah right
Alexis: And so I just went around and put little sticky traps everywhere and I was like, I'm the Horticulture Agent, I'll take care of this problem that I may or may not have caused.
Josh: yeah
atack2010: You're the problem solver, but you did not mention that you're the problem maker.
Josh: ah Yeah, Alexis was hired to manage the problems that she creates.
Alexis: Yeah.
atack2010: Yeah. Yes.
Brett: Look, look, look, we don't have time for talking about who caused this.
Josh: yeah
Alexis: But I can fix it.
Brett: Who's going to fix it?
Josh: yeah but
atack2010: Let's not dwell on the past.
Brett: Me.
Alexis: You're welcome.
Josh: Action -oriented.
atack2010: Let's not dwell.
Brett: We could stand around pointing fingers and maybe find out who did this, or we could move on really quickly.
Alexis: I was new in like 23.
Brett: That's awesome.
Alexis: But anyways, ah other than that one incident, I have i have had them and I've had no other incident. So you can do this if you're in an apartment setting. It is great to use in your houseplants if you don't even have a garden, but maybe you have a houseplant or you have some potted tomatoes or something like that on you know on a porch.
atack2010: Right.
Alexis: can absolutely use these things and, uh, you know, not throw us so much into the garbage. Uh, and you really don't have to deal with them a ton. So people who don't like worms, you can still compost, do vermicomposting, even if you think worms are kind of gross because you really don't have to like mess with them a ton. So, uh, I know that's like an issue for some people is they're like, Ooh, worms are gross.
Brett: yeah
Alexis: And I'm like, yeah, they don't really, you don't really notice them. You don't really deal with them a ton. Uh, so I really like talking about this.
Josh: Maybe they think you're supposed to like pet them and like roll around with them.
Alexis: Yeah, no, you actually you don't need they don't need any grooming. You know, there's no extra care. You just kind of toss your banana peel in there occasionally and roll with the punches.
Josh: No socialization.
Brett: Yeah. Yeah, they like to be left alone.
atack2010: How did you get started in worms? Yeah.
Alexis: How did I get started, Worms? There was an extension class that was the very first year I started and a specialist was teaching it. And the goal was that they would teach us and we would make us a worm bin and then we'd be able to teach that class. And I have to many, many people over the years. And so um I had my worm bin, which was ah the, like you have a sourdough starter, it was that for people. And so we'd, uh, I basically raised a bunch of worms and spread them throughout the community.
Josh: nice
Brett: I have a vermapast
Josh: where did you ahead
Brett: as well.
Alexis: Oh, tell me.
atack2010: Oh.
Brett: So actually, and I teased this in one of our previous episodes, but um one of the one of the many deal sealers that I ah used during my courtship of Annie was asking her if she wanted to come see my worms.
Alexis: Oh.
Josh: Nice.
Brett: And I did not, I was such a, I was a naive person ah and Ray has since explained to me that there might be some sort of double entendre or something there.
Josh: Where did
atack2010: worth Wow, wow.
Josh: she go?
Josh: Hahahaha!
atack2010: Yeah. I mean, especially if you're in the basement, Brad.
Brett: I was so innocent in those days.
atack2010: Was it worthy in the basement? Did you tack that on? Do you want to see my worm in the basement?
Brett: They were not in the basement. No, it was the, it was the same situation that Alexis just described.
atack2010: Worms in the basement?
Brett: So this was back when I was just a, just a grad student renting a single room and I was, you know, uh, baptized in the waters of sustainable agriculture and wanting to participate, but didn't really have a context for doing it, um, for like doing a larger scale compost.
atack2010: Okay.
Brett: And so I was like, Oh, I'm going to try this worm bin thing. And I had a worm bin just in my room. ah My my 10 by 10 room that included a might stand up desk because that was hot back then and my ah Bed and some bookshelves and and these little worms um So I was definitely exposed to any imbalances within the within the worm bin But she yeah, I think I think I think I ended up bringing them out to show her instead of like
Josh: so This is where the worms in high sleep.
atack2010: Good. Okay.
Alexis: like yeah Like you're the guy who brings out like this snake on the, like his, you know, boa constrictor and you're like, and said, oh, here is ah my worms.
atack2010: Okay. This story is getting better. then Yeah.
Brett: yeah
Brett: Yeah, snake guy.
atack2010: Okay. Okay.
Alexis: Would you like to meet them all?
Brett: She was I mean, the the proof in the pudding.
Alexis: She married you, so.
Brett: Yeah, we just we just we just ah did nine years of being married and I don't know how many years of knowing each other.
Alexis: Togetherness.
Brett: Yeah.
Josh: for
Brett: um So yeah, exactly.
atack2010: You argue with success. I mean, you can't. Oh, man.
Brett: So from a posting not just good for turning over table scraps in a small space.
Alexis: Yeah, yeah, also good for love.
atack2010: You're sealing the deal. Yeah.
Brett: Yeah, ladies, ladies dig wom or chicks dig worms.
atack2010: ah I like that.
Brett: Is that the, I don't know.
Josh: Yeah.
Brett: like I'm going to workshop it.
Josh: The birds.
atack2010: Yeah. Maybe want to wordsmith that up a little bit.
Alexis: Yeah, we'll have merch coming soon.
Brett: Yeah.
atack2010: Yeah.
Brett: Ooh.
Alexis: Well, cool. So ah for those of you who maybe you caught on, this is worm composting. And usually the first question I know I get about worm composting is, do I just go dig up a bunch of worms out in the field? And ah and the answer is no. So there are ah worms that are much better at living in a confined space.
Josh: hahaha
Alexis: ah They also ah are better at digesting the types of food food scraps you're putting in there.
Brett: Hm.
Alexis: So, you know, they're not getting that leaf litter and things like that you're finding outside in the garden, that mulch. You're putting in, you know, coffee grounds and banana peels and things along those lines. And we'll talk a little bit more about what is a do and a don't for a vermicompost bin. So but basically what i'm getting at is there are species that are much better at living in these spaces ah specifically usually we recommend the red wiggler and they are very easy to find a lot of people like them for fishing bait as well ah so ah you may have heard of those before but Red Wiggler is usually the one we recommend to live in those types of spaces, deal with those types of environments.
Alexis: And one thing I do always want to mention to people is while they are worms and we're used to them living outside, the Red Wiggler species is ah a lot like me.
Brett: Mm
Alexis: It does not like the extremes of weather. So it doesn't like to get too cold. It doesn't like to get too hot.
Brett: -hmm.
Alexis: So anything under 40 and anything kind of above 80 is going to be out of the question. So you do want to have them in an area that's a little bit more climate controlled.
Brett: Mm
Alexis: ah They can withstand, you know, cooler, those kind of the cooler end, ah but they won't do their work as readily.
Brett: -hmm.
Alexis: So that's something to think about if you've got them in a barn or garage type area that doesn't freeze. So that's yeah.
Brett: I like that. I have trouble saying it. I either want to say red wriggler or wed wiggler.
atack2010: you
Josh: yeah totally
Alexis: wed wiggles
Josh: yeah
Alexis: You'll also see them called red worms, if that's easier.
Brett: Yeah.
Alexis: I just think red wiggler is a lot more fun to say, so.
Brett: yeah And and you know the think the one of the things that I discovered in my you know early early days and since ah is that you know you're not going to dig them up from the ground. In fact, there are worm farms.
Alexis: she
Brett: which I would love to go and visit a worm farm someday.
Josh: Yeah, totally.
Brett: um that was that's actually i't actually yeah I would love that.
Alexis: like I kinda wanna be a worm farmer, I think.
Josh: Sort of like an ag tourism experience.
atack2010: There were some of those in the state. I i forget where, but Alexis, it was a, yeah, somewhere's in that area.
Alexis: There was one down, I thought Liberty, was it in the, lit not Liberty, but um campbell Campbell'sville area or something like that, I thought. um
atack2010: And it was one of those and they raised those for, and it was a 2009, 2010, 11, somewhere's in there and I've lost track of it since then. I don't know. Well, what happened?
Brett: the the big ones the The big ones around, you can order online and they'll ship them to your house in a nice little moist bag.
Alexis: When I've,
Alexis: Yeah, you can literally get them on Amazon.
Brett: So if you're, yeah, not, and they're not crazy expensive.
Alexis: yeah
Brett: They are, I would want to have things set up in a way, which we're going to talk about here before investing in some, you know, it' the same way, if you were going to get a snake or a turtle or a any other kind of pet, you want to have your house ready to, or your situation ready to receive it.
Alexis: perceive
Brett: Yeah.
Alexis: I have seen, um oh, I was going to talk about um a worm operation that I have seen where that was sort of like their secondary thing to to to make use of the greenhouse space they were heating.
Brett: What were you, somebody would say something.
Brett: Okay.
Alexis: And so that you know a greenhouse space ah is usually a good space for red wigglers.
atack2010: Thanks.
Alexis: And so what they did was they had all their benches and like their hanging baskets right and then underneath the benches they had stack like worm bins like all the way down the benches and so they were able to utilize some space that they wouldn't have normally ah down in there and I always thought that was pretty cool to utilize that and then all their like compost ingredients are right. close at hand. So ah that was a good way to use it. And like, of course, because the more mass you have, the warmer it stays in the in the winter.
Josh: Yeah.
Alexis: So it just kind of helped to add some some mass in there for thermal issues. But anyways, I thought that was fascinating. And I'm like, into it. I want to do it. There's an organic grower here in my ah county for a couple years. He has like a big, it's like one of those big dump bed trailers, you know what I'm talking about?
Josh: Yeah.
Alexis: And it has um one of the, what's the word I'm looking for where the bed rolls and kicks off stuff. What am I, what am I thinking?
Josh: Like kind of like a conveyor or like a manure spreader.
Alexis: Conveyor. Yeah.
atack2010: A manure spreader, something like that.
Alexis: So it has a, yes.
Josh: Yeah.
Alexis: Yeah. So it's like a conveyor. Um, so it's, it's like a maneuver spreader, but not, it isn't actually one of those. Um, but it thought he converted the whole thing into a giant worm bin and then like can just use it.
Josh: Right.
Brett: Mhmm.
Josh: Whoa.
Alexis: Yeah. It's wild. And he's got some weird things to be able to heat it and, you know, do that kind of stuff, but, uh, it's fascinating.
Brett: Mhmm.
Alexis: So he's like doing worm farming on a big scale.
Brett: Whoa.
atack2010: I hear lots of comparison and between like composting.
Brett: Yeah.
atack2010: you know And some of the concepts are the same between worm composting.
Alexis: Mm -hmm.
atack2010: But I guess what you're saying, Alexa, I mean, that's something that's different about worm composting. It doesn't give off heat like microbes would in a typical composting situation then. So that's that's a big difference, sounds like.
Alexis: Yeah.
Brett: Well, so before before we jump into the contrasts and comparisons and things like that,
Alexis: yeah Yeah.
Alexis: Yeah.
Brett: Alexis, paint us a picture. you say You claim to have had a worm bin for 11 years, which means you've gotten a whole lot of looks at it.
atack2010: ah allegedly.
Brett: What does it look like?
Alexis: yeah
Brett: How did you do it? What's the what's the vibe? Was it it very expensive and difficult to set up?
Alexis: So I have had two different worm bins. The first one and the one I still have is the one that has been the most successful. The fancier one that someone gave me that is like over a hundred dollars. If you buy online, someone didn't want it anymore. I failed at miserably. So I'm going to, the cheap easy way is what I have done best.
Josh: That's
Alexis: ah with And so ah that is, it's literally two plastic totes that you can just get at the store. ah It can be, they can pretty much be any size. Mine are like, um forget how many gallons they are, but they're the bigger totes that you can get. But I know I've done workshops with some students who have dorms and they, we've just done little small ones, but still the same thought process. There's two totes. In one of the totes, you're going to drill small holes in the very bottom, and you want them small enough that the worms aren't going to be easily falling through there. ah But you want the liquid to be able to drain because the benefit of just like with regular compost, but it's a little bit easier to harvest, is vermicompost, you can get compost tea off of that as well. So you're getting the tea, which is that liquid, and then you're also getting ah the actual physical composted, the worm poop.
Alexis: It's vermicasting, vermicasting, castings, worm castings.
Josh: Yeah, worm castings is what I first heard.
Brett: casting eyes.
Josh: yeah
Alexis: Yeah. And so, um, anyways, so you've got one tote with holes in it. That's the one that you keep the lid on and then you nest that tote in the other one. Uh, and I, you, I put just like old milk jugs, like kind of crushed up milk, jub jugs and water bottles just to elevate it a little bit more. So they're not nesting too completely. And then you put the lid on. That's it.
Josh: Nice.
Brett: And and the second the second container has no holes in the bottom.
Alexis: Yeah.
Alexis: Correct, right. It just cut it it catches the tea and any rogue worms that fall in there. It's to collect the liquid.
Brett: or Or any other excess, just excess juice in any sort of, yeah, cool.
Alexis: Mm -hmm. Juices.
Brett: Yeah, and so like the just to give people a a sense of size, the the smaller ones, I'm guessing were around maybe the size of a shoe box or so and the ones that you have the bigger ones are maybe 24 inches by 18 inches by maybe 18 inches deep or so.
Josh: What about?
Alexis: Mm -hmm, mm -hmm.
Brett: You know, it's there, you know, as you're saying,
Alexis: Yeah, they it's a little deeper than that, but I can't believe I can't.
atack2010: I've heard, I've heard when though there was a lot of those workshops years ago and I forget if, it um, if it was actually, I was born or there were some other, okay, I thought so, but, um, helped her a little bit with some of those, you know, just grunt labor, but, um, it seems like, uh, there was a, uh, some discussion on depth.
Alexis: It was, it was Ashley Osborne, yeah. Hey, Ashley.
atack2010: I'm trying to recall from memory not to get it too deep because you're using walk to get that started, uh, Alexis and Brad.
Alexis: Mm -hmm.
atack2010: those of you that have some experience like shredded newspapers and they warned me they were like well don't get go too deep I guess is that a compression problem or what's up with that like if you go the actual material yeah yeah and yeah the depth of material not the container yeah
Brett: Well, the depth only really refers to the material that's inside. You could theoretically do it in a 10 -foot tall container if you wanted to, but you just can't build it up too deep.
Alexis: Mm hmm.
Alexis: Mm hmm.
Brett: ah Alexis, do you have any thoughts on that?
Alexis: Mm hmm.
Alexis: Yeah, I think the, and and from that to to expand a little bit more on that, yeah, so you you're starting out, you're only adding you know a little bit at a time. And so that can still build up.
atack2010: Mm hmm.
Alexis: So you could feel, so if you got 10 gallons, you may be doing one gallon and then um you know they go through that and you're adding some more and then adding some more. So that depth can build up in my experience, ah but you, before you harvest it, ah but um you just, ah if you add too much all at one time, they can't process it quickly enough.
atack2010: Mm hmm.
Brett: All
Alexis: So that's when you get like, if you're going to get a smell or a fruit fly problem, it's because you've added too much. They can't eat it fast enough. And so that's usually the biggest issue is you're adding too much ah or not enough moisture, just like regular compost. Right. It's you kind of have to have that good balance.
atack2010: And I know we're talking about composting, and in a previous episode, we talked about if you chop up the material a little bit finer, the microorganisms in the other type of composting occurs more rapidly.
Brett: right.
Alexis: Mm hmm.
atack2010: Is that also true for worm composting, that if you ah chop up the apple versus an entire like apple, it will it occur a little bit more rapidly for the worm?
Brett: you
Alexis: Yeah. Cause cause you've got like, you know, you've got this tiny worm. So it's a lot easier for them to eat, you know, something that's cut up.
atack2010: Mm, gotcha.
Alexis: So absolutely it's, that's why if you've done regular composting, it's sort of like the same thought process.
atack2010: Yeah.
Alexis: The biggest difference is kind of what you're able to add versus not. But if you've done regular composting or vice versa, if you vermicompost it, you can definitely regular compost.
atack2010: And that Burma composting, oh, go ahead.
Brett: And there definitely, there definitely still is microbial activity and in worm bins too.
Alexis: Mhmm.
atack2010: Oh, man.
Brett: You know, it's part of like a little simulated simplified soil web of sorts where, you know, certain things are getting broken down to elements that the worms can then eat.
Alexis: Mhmm.
Alexis: Mhmm.
Josh: and Right.
Brett: You know, it's not like the worms necessarily always are just going and taking a big bite of lettuce. It could be the things that have been broken down, you know, further by some of the fungi and and bacteria. I think another aspect of the depth thing um as Alexis was alluding to, like if you're adding it and the worms are moving up into the food, um in general the the worms, I was reading about this a little bit just to kind of on NC State, ah North Carolina State has some good stuff um through their extension on this, um that like the these worms tend to operate best in the equivalent of like a shallow soil depth, you know, like no more than maybe
atack2010: Oh.
Alexis: Mhmm.
Alexis: Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Alexis: Mm -hmm.
Brett: eight or 10 inches in a soil environment. and in ah in a so I think it has has partially to do with the oxygen situation.
Josh: Yeah.
Brett: and Also, as Alexis pointed out, like basically, the worms aren't going to start on a huge thick layer of stuff and eat their way through it downward.
Alexis: Right.
Brett: They're just going to eat at the layer that they eat at, and then if there's food available to them above, that's added slowly and gradually like she was saying, they will eat up into that. But it's not like it's you know going to just chomp, chomp, chomp all the way down to the bottom. And you're going to end up with a bed of gross hypo ah hypoxic, you know ah no oxygen rotting material that's going to smell terrible and attract all kinds of other things.
Alexis: you
Brett: And so you're kind of just building these soil profiles. And they're like almost like ah layers of sedimentary rock or something. You're imagining a cross section or a sundae, ice cream sundae, maybe lasagna.
Alexis: Mm -hmm. Lasagna.
Josh: Yeah, the soil horizon with the parent material.
Brett: um that that you're sort of building those over time and they're moving up through it and processing it. And I would echo the the times where I got into trouble the most was when I fed too much too quickly and they just can't eat it.
Alexis: Mm -hmm, mm -hmm.
Brett: And that then creates nasty situation inside there, which isn't good for their health.
atack2010: Mmm.
Brett: So it slows them down even more. It just is this vicious cycle. So as in most things in life, balance is the way
Alexis: I think that when I had that happen was when I had, after I had harvested that for my bin for the first time. And so naturally as part of the harvesting situation, you will lose some worms, right?
atack2010: Mmm.
Alexis: Just cause like there's, you can only get so many to come out of the compost and so you lose them. So my worm population was low. And I was thinking, Oh, well, they've, they've not eaten. I got it because I kind of slow down, right?
Josh: they're hungry in there my baby
Alexis: They're hungry.
Josh: like
Alexis: They haven't, you know, I disrupted their home. I've got to get them all new bedding. So I added a lot of food. Um, and that was, they, there was not enough of them to do, to do the work that fast and just kind of the shock of it all, um, was part of it.
atack2010: Mm hmm.
Alexis: So ah that's something to think about, learn from our mistakes.
atack2010: Seems like I've read somewhere's, you know, a pound of worms is like 1000. They use any of the title, the red wigglers, a pound of those is about 1000 worms and they can eat 25 % of their body weight per day, which is pretty and incredible.
Josh: They're hungry in there, my babies.
Josh: That's, I've read that too and it was like mind blowing.
Alexis: Mmhmm.
Josh: Yeah.
atack2010: Yeah.
Josh: That's like if I ate 60 pounds of food in a day.
atack2010: So ah Yeah, it's i mean yeah i new I know that the process can happen quickly, but I have limited experience with that. But that as far as planning numbers, I was very curious, well, how much can you feed a worm bin?
Alexis: Mmhmm.
Josh: Right.
atack2010: That if it's broken down well, I was like, that's that's a lot of organic material that goes in there. If you have, let's say, a pound of worms, and I can eat a quarter of a pound of you know organic materials under ideal conditions per day.
Alexis: Mmhmm.
Josh: In a day.
atack2010: and And some of the estimates were a little higher, but I always go with the lower estimates to keep from getting in trouble. Because I imagine that there would be a smell like you were talking about, Brett, that if you overdo it a little bit, I guess, on the the food source that you put in, the organic source.
Alexis: Mmhmm.
Alexis: And I think it depends also on your, your food source or just like, uh, a good compost is usually a few different items in it, you know, to to get the best thing in my experience, Brett, you share in yours.
atack2010: Hmm.
Alexis: Uh, so I like if I've just harvested something or, um, there were a lot, like since I had mine at my office, sometimes our agents would you know be preparing a recipe and they'd have a lot of strawberry tops or, you know, some older blueberries or something.
Brett: Good.
Alexis: You never want to put anything moldy in there. That's one thing. If it's moldy or like bad, you don't want to put that in there.
Josh: Mm.
Alexis: But strawberry tops or banana peels, if they've made a big recipe, I'd put a lot of that, you know, what we would in normal composting kind of refer to as green stuff. And even if it wasn't, you know, if they really did.
Josh: Mm.
Alexis: consume it pretty quickly. The next thing I might add might be something a little bit more of what we would maybe call a brown in normal composting so it would be like shredded newspaper or really finely shredded cardboard or something like that just to kind of mix that up those dry to wet ingredients and some I think that helps ah helps a lot with making sure there's no smell involved. I also use a lot of coffee grounds, which I think does help as well, ah which is good for them, coffee grounds.
Josh: Okay.
Alexis: And that's one that I've heard mixed results on. Some people, the internet said like, don't use coffee grounds, it's bad, but my worms have been eating it for 11 years and everybody, I tell everybody to do it and and their worms are living.
Josh: Okay.
Alexis: So I think that...
atack2010: Depends on the quality of the coffee, Alexis.
Alexis: Well, I will say when i I had a friend who had an espresso machine and she was like holding all of her grounds for me and I was giving them to the worms in chunks at time.
Brett: Oh
Alexis: And man, I went through, the worm bin went through food a lot faster when I gave them espresso, espresso grounds.
atack2010: You juiced them up.
Brett: yeah.
atack2010: You got them going.
Josh: Hm.
atack2010: You got them going.
Alexis: Yeah. I had to really feed them for the next couple of weeks after they got that dose.
Brett: That's awesome. I think I do think the feeding amount ratio thing is a little, it's not deceptive per se, but it's, it's almost like, um, assessing how fast your car is based on what its top speed is.
atack2010: Mm hmm.
Alexis: Yeah.
Brett: And in reality, you know, if you're driving two cars might have the same top speed, but one of them is able to get there in five seconds.
Alexis: Mm hmm.
atack2010: Mm hmm.
Brett: The other one that's going to take 15.
Alexis: Mm hmm.
Brett: I think depending on the the the ah way that the worms are taken care of, the way that they're acclimated, the time of year that they ship, um the time of year that you're you know sort of bringing them into, yeah, all those things.
Josh: Yeah.
Alexis: How warm it is in that area, yeah.
Brett: um I think you can, like that is the rating I would i experienced when the bin the bin was up and operating at its full potential was that, but they weren't able to do that for like for me for like weeks, if not months.
atack2010: Mm -hmm ideal conditions. Yeah Yeah, mmm makes sense Different ages, yeah
Brett: Um, just cause they're, you know, they're acclimating a new environment and the ones that are not going to do as well or dying and the ones that are going to do better or kind of. Yeah.
Alexis: Slow.
Brett: Um, and so, so I think, I think that is when you're, once you get it going, like Alexis has.
Alexis: Yeah.
Alexis: A
Brett: and you sort of develop, just like with anything else in your life, you develop this feel and this like intuition almost.
Alexis: feeling.
Brett: or the this It becomes pretty maintenance -free, but in the initial stages, it it can be kind of touch and go of, like was that too much or was that too little?
Alexis: Mhmm.
Brett: and I would say one thing I would err on, I personally would err on the side of feeding too little at the start.
Alexis: Mhmm.
Alexis: Mhmm.
Brett: um you know You might have some hungry worms and some of them might theoretically die, but I would much rather do it deal with that than poison their environment.
Alexis: Yeah.
Josh: ah yeah that I was going to ask, don't do they just kind of metabolically slow down if there isn't a ton of food around?
Alexis: Mhmm.
atack2010: Or do they try to crawl out of the bin?
Alexis: Mhmm.
Josh: Yeah, so it seems like it's way more forgiving to kind of
Alexis: Yeah, yeah it it really is.
atack2010: Yeah. yeah
Alexis: And it it's very easy. for I like it because it's, I think, easy for new ah like new people because you can just open the bin and look to see how much food is in there. um So like I used to be told a lot of people will say, cover the food. ah So you you might if you put if you put banana peels, whatever, you put in there and then you maybe cover that up with a new little newspaper.
atack2010: Yeah, I was going to ask about that.
Alexis: You can do that. ah Sometimes I do and sometimes I don't and I don't think it's 100 % necessary as long as that lid is dark and it stays on ah because they just want to be able to basically eat in the dark. So you know what I mean?
atack2010: I was wondering about the fruit flies.
Josh: I hear that.
Alexis: they it It probably would help them but maybe mine I've just acclimated to not.
atack2010: If you have a fruit fly problem.
Josh: Relatable. but
atack2010: problem
Alexis: So I don't always do that and the I like to be able to open that up and go, If I'm about to give them something in a larger quantity, I can look in and be like, well, did they finish what they got before I give them something else?
Josh: hahaha
Alexis: And if they haven't, then that might go in my regular compost bin outside. Uh, but if they have, then I kind of know. And so I think that it's forgiving in that way where you can just open it up, look to see what's happening.
atack2010: Mm -hmm.
Alexis: And if you can still see the banana peel half eaten, then don't, you maybe don't need to feed them or maybe just add some of those drier ingredients just to give them a little bit of an option.
atack2010: Yeah.
Brett: So it seems like we've we've moved in a little bit into the comparison and contrasting of traditional, you know, kind of compost pile outdoor activity versus the worm bin and a little bit of the contrast, contrasting um aspects of it.
atack2010: ah
Alexis: Mmhmm.
Brett: And I'll say I no longer do Verma posting.
Alexis: Mmhmm.
Brett: And so um I can explore or I can share why why I don't. But ah Alexis, as far as you just mentioned that you have both. both regular composting and vermiposting. Why? what's the What's the reasoning there to have both? i follow I understand why one might, but some of our listeners may be wondering.
Alexis: um Because i'm probably but I'm usually producing more um compostable materials than the worms can handle. So that's one reason. i don't If I don't want to throw it in the trash, I have another option.
atack2010: you
Alexis: ah The next reason is because not everything that goes in the regular compost can go to the worms.
Josh: Mm hmm.
Alexis: So the easiest way to determine whether or not something is warm friendly which most things are but if it's something that might bother your eyes like if you were to stick it up close to your eye like a more get juicing your eyes so like an onion or a you know citrus right if you get orange juice in your eyes gonna burn there that membrane what.
Brett: ah hot pepper Hot peppers peppers
Alexis: Hot peppers, exactly. That membrane that is on their skin is sort of like like the membrane. i I've been told, I'm not a wormologist or anything, but I've been told that is very similar to kind of the membrane around your eye.
Josh: Hahaha.
Alexis: And so that's a good way to think about it is if it would bother your eye to touch it, it shouldn't go in the compost bin. And that's been the easiest way that to teach people. So those onions, hot peppers, citrus, ah garlic, yeah.
atack2010: Garlic. Not that you would have a lot of garlic, I guess that would be unusual.
Alexis: Yeah, none of that goes to waste in my ass.
atack2010: Unless you...
Alexis: None of that can go in the worm bin.
atack2010: It goes in the tummy bend, the belly bend.
Alexis: So that goes in my regular compost bin. Yeah, it goes in.
Josh: All right, if Alexis doesn't eat it, then the worms can have a snack and then that isn't, then it goes to the outside.
atack2010: Yes.
Alexis: No, yeah, no, I just.
Brett: with the ah With the option for Alexis to eat it again in between the worm and the...
Josh: not Why didn't you guys like this, chomp, chomp?
atack2010: Yeah. To re -recycle,
Alexis: Chop, chop, it's.
Brett: i
atack2010: yeah We're talking about all these food sources, um and I may have ah ah missed over it, but ah like um adding moisture. like I know that you mentioned the membranes of the worm. How do you guys monitor moisture? How do you know when it's too dry or when it's too wet? i mean How do you kind of monitor that other than just trial and error? i mean Do you have a method, you all?
Brett: Well, so i I watched, there's actually a really nice video from NC State on vermicomposting and the person in there, agent, educator, whatever they call them down there.
Josh: Yeah.
Brett: um Showed how to build the container, showed how to get it set up. And she she mentioned a a number of like 80 % relative humidity inside the container. um That's pretty, that's pretty juicy. um You know, in a normal human, human comfortable environment somewhere between 45 and 55 % relative humidity, you know, when and it's terrible outside and I have to go do work.
Josh: Yeah.
Brett: It's always 80 % humidity outside and that's pretty rough.
Josh: sure Right, right.
Alexis: If you're lucky, it's 80.
Brett: Yeah. um But I think ah she mentioned that and she mentioned like using some like something like Alexis was talking about as far as the brown material to set up a bedding mix by getting something like shredded newspaper, shredded cardboard, something like that, and wetting it down to the point that it's going to create and maintain moisture inside of the of the container. I will say, and this is something, I have this theory that you have you as you learn about who you are as a person and your tendencies, the there are people who tend to overdo and there are people who tend to underdo and with water, with all kinds of other things.
Alexis: she Just like with a house plant, I feel like it's like,
Brett: And once you figure out which version of that you are, air on the other side of that. So for me, I would tend I'd be like, I have a problem if I get thirsty, and I'm like dehydrated, I freak out.
Alexis: excuse
Brett: And so I would have a tendency to get my worms a little too much moisture sometimes. And so I just be like, Okay, that looks a little bit concerning to me. That's probably the right amount.
Josh: All right.
Alexis: Mm
Brett: Whereas someone who's like, I don't know, I'm gonna let it dry out.
Josh: right
Brett: Maybe Okay, let's go a little more than you think so. But ah that that was how I did it.
Alexis: -hmm.
Brett: How do you do Alexis?
Alexis: I don't like I just did my worm bin so I actually like know what I did. um So I don't wet down my bedding but what I do add is moisture rich food.
Brett: Okay.
Alexis: So I tear my bedding small like in thin strips.
Josh: Mmm.
Alexis: I'm usually using newspaper to do that or like I said like a like a you know that thin ah cardboard packing material like it's just ah it's cardboard but it's like a real thin one. So I'm tearing that into some thin strips, uh, putting it down in there. And then I use a moisture rich food. So banana peels, apple cores, you know, those lettuce, those types of things. Uh, and I put that on top of the bedding and usually I have found, um, that that is enough moisture to get them started because I'm the person who will, I'll over, I'll, I would overdo it.
Alexis: And so that seems to be a good, a good mix for me.
Brett: Hmm.
Alexis: So I don't usually add any type of water. I just add a moisture rich food and then the coffee grounds I add will have some moisture in there as well. So that seems to work pretty well for me.
Brett: And is that is that's more like as a maintenance ah routine or is that is that like if you were setting up a bin from from.
Alexis: that That was, so when I just harvested my bin, I basically started from an empty bin, right? It was the same bin I always used, but I dumped it out on a bit in a big box, went through it, picked as many worms as I could out, harvested all the all the compost.
Brett: Gotcha.
Alexis: And then I put back in, ah you know, a smaller handful of ah worms with some of the compost. Very similar to what you'll get in a bag. You'll get them in a little bit of a media. and you'll get your one pound of worms in sort of a peat -type media usually.
Josh: I
Alexis: ah So very similar to that. And then I put them right on that fresh bedding with that those moisture -rich foods. And when I peaked in after a week ah just yesterday, ah they were going ham on some, ah yeah, going espresso on some on some bananas and apple cores that were in there.
Josh: am.
atack2010: go epresso
Brett: Yeah, so one thing you just mentioned was you said you checked on him after a week. which is a ah sign of an experienced worm keeper that you're not, if you get them new, like I did, and I had no experience, I was checking on them like multiple times per day.
Alexis: Mm -hmm.
Josh: said
Alexis: Aw!
Brett: And every time you do that, it loses moisture.
Alexis: Uh -huh.
Brett: And so it becomes a little bit more of a potential concern.
atack2010: going to espresso.
Brett: And so one of the tips that the person said, if you do need to add moisture, use like a spritzing bottle or something like that.
Alexis: Mm -hmm.
Brett: Don't just like dump water into the bitt into the bin. drown them all or at least traumatize them to the point that they don't want to eat ah eat any vegetable scraps anymore.
Josh: I said.
Brett: but Well, so maybe maybe I'll just share a couple of the reasons why I don't ah do it anymore. um So I would say, yeah, mission accomplished.
Alexis: You got married and you didn't need it anymore?
atack2010: Yeah, I was going to say you already have Annie. That's why you don't. Is that it?
Josh: but
Brett: Get rid of these worms.
atack2010: Nailed it. Got it done.
Josh: done their job
Brett: Yeah. Thank you for your service, worms.
atack2010: Worm daddy.
Brett: um So one one reason is that you mentioned the volume thing. So ah i'm ah I'm a pretty large person. And for for a lady, my wife is also a fairly tall and active person. And so we go through a lot. And if for a long time, we were vegan and now we're mostly, um well, we're vegetarian.
Alexis: Mm hmm.
Brett: And so we go through a lot of food scraps.
Josh: They've done their job.
Alexis: Mm hmm.
Brett: Like we generate so much food waste. We would have to have
Alexis: Mm hmm.
Brett: You mentioned the two pounds or 20 % of their body weight or 25 % of the body weight or whatever, we would have to have a real operation going of worms to eat it all.
Alexis: Mm hmm.
Josh: Nana.
atack2010: Haha.
Brett: And in the midst of life and ah other interests and other things like that, it's easier for me to just throw it into the regular compost bin, turn that every once in a while if I feel like it.
Alexis: Mm -hmm.
Brett: If I don't, then I don't. um Part of the corollary to that is the fact that you mentioned about the um the comfort zone for worms as far as temperature goes. So I would have to have, you have to, I mean, in essence, I think of it, you have to keep it inside your living space or inside a livable space.
Alexis: Right.
Josh: Hey, you got that detached garage.
Brett: And, right.
Josh: Boom. All worms.
Alexis: Just containers stacked floor to ceiling worms.
Josh: Just a nice 80 % humidity in there all the time.
atack2010: There's just a sign over the door called the worm bin.
Brett: Yeah. We don't know why the roof keeps rotting off of this garage.
Josh: No mold.
Brett: It's really strange. um But like the garage is an example, you know, it gets gets way too cold in the winter and it gets way too hot in the summer. um And so it's just not feasible. If I were looking to have like a pet worm bin and it was fun for me and cool or like There was an office opportunity you know where you have, I think those are great things.
Alexis: Mm hmm.
Brett: And if you live in an apartment and if you just really want to do it, it's really, really cool.
Alexis: Mm hmm.
Brett: And an advantage of the worms and something that I really think is is neat is that they will
Alexis: Mm hmm.
Brett: pound for pound as far as what goes into the bin, they will chew through it way faster than a traditional compost bin. Like they will, as you said, they will tear it up.
Alexis: Oh, yeah.
Josh: Goodnight.
Brett: It's just the amount that they're able to process at the scale that I'm able to store year round would not be nearly enough.
Alexis: Right.
atack2010: Mm
Brett: and And in the absence of infinite time, I've decided to you know, step away from that and just throw stuff in the compost pile. But that that's my reasoning is and that's the main to me, the main weakness of the worm bin is just the the throughput capacity, the amount that it's able to handle.
Alexis: Yeah.
Alexis: Yeah, I kind of think of it as sort of the extra special something that I'm going to use. So I really, and I really like the worm tea.
atack2010: -hmm
Alexis: So I don't know if you use the like, uh, the drip, the drippins very much Brett, but I have, I, um, so I,
Brett: Great with Rome.
Josh: probiotics.
Brett: To be clear, do not drink the worm tea.
Alexis: do not. ah It is.
Josh: but
Brett: Tea is just a term used as a fun way of describing it.
atack2010: The
Alexis: Yeah, it's a warm juice.
Brett: What can you use it for? I was curious to get to this part.
Alexis: The worm. Yeah, I don't.
Brett: The specialness of worm castings and tea I think is something that is really interesting and it's something I know a lot less about.
Alexis: Water.
atack2010: fluent.
Alexis: Yeah, I've been using it. So I use it in special, more special scenarios than I would like regular compost. And so that's where I have seen the most benefit. So that, that tea is a lot even faster. So worm compost, you know, if you're feeding regularly, you're doing everything right. You can, you can harvest your, if it's a, like my bigger bin, which is a relatively large one for, for worms, for a home worm bin, uh, I can harvest probably every two months, maybe faster than that.
atack2010: you
Alexis: If I was taking in. like really keeping up with it. And, but that tea, I could probably every two weeks pull out a good amount of it. And I love to use that to wet my potting mix. So that tea is full of all these really good, um, uh, microbes, all of this, like it's just good, good juices. And so there's its own, uh, microbiome just in that water as well as, you know, nutrients that the worms have passed through and and are now plant available.
Alexis: And so when I'm doing seeds seeding and stuff like that, I go through a lot of potting mix. It has to be wet down so that it's not hydrophobic. And so I will use that tea to do that. And I have seen my seedlings are very, very happy. I just feel like they are greener, take off faster when I do that. And I also will use the castings when I do harvest. I'll mix a small amount of that in with my actual potting media. ah to to just plant my seedlings in and so I just did that recently and they're all super happy and I think I'm going to be able to get them in the ground at a really good rate but I've used them and I've got a huge houseplant collection as you can imagine and so I will when I repot my houseplants I'll use that you can top dress you know you don't even need to have to be repotting you can top dress your stuff
Alexis: And then if I've got an area of a bed that maybe is struggling in some way, maybe I had to rogue out a bunch of plants and I took a bunch of topsoil with it, I'll add back. It's like a superfood is kind of the way I think about it. um Just like a superfood, it really energizes the soil, really feeds those microbes again. So I'll lay that stuff out in a problem area that I might have.
atack2010: So it's a both for some fertility and I've read some interesting things on on worm castings for fertility, but it's also a soil modifier much like traditional compost.
Alexis: Yeah.
Josh: Yeah.
atack2010: so So you get a double whammy kind of boost from that is as far as what you're getting, truly getting.
Alexis: Yeah. Yeah.
Alexis: Mm -hmm.
Brett: There's also some interesting out there kind of suggests suggestions about, I mean, this is within within scientific literature parameters, but um I think still very much on the fringe about the production of plant growth regulating hormones by worms um that that regulate and in some ways promote healthy growth ah that is not present in compost, which is kind of crazy.
atack2010: and
Alexis: Little woo -woo. Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Josh: Yeah, you've heard people refer to like them as like the original farmers because they're like conditioning and creating the conditions for themselves.
Alexis: I know people.
Alexis: Habitat.
Josh: Yeah.
Alexis: Yeah.
Brett: we could be We could be like them, where do we go wrong?
Josh: We would get out in the sunlight. We all need to dig underground and live underground and eat in the dark.
Brett: and Burrow, dig deep for a better life, that's my campaign slogan.
Alexis: You're not not mole people, worm people.
Alexis: I like it. All right. ah Worms 2024.
atack2010: But before we before we wrap up here, and this is always a question I have with compost. um If you guys could talk just a little bit about your the way that you harvest, because I'm thinking worm compost, how in the world do you separate the worms from the compost? And I'm assuming there's sort of a sort of a process there you guys have when you harvest the the worm castings and things and get the worms away from that casting into a fresh you know area.
Alexis: Have you done it, Brett?
atack2010: like
Brett: shine a light, shine a light.
atack2010: Yeah, that's what they don't they don't like that particular type of worm doesn't like the light.
Alexis: Let on me.
Brett: Yeah.
atack2010: Is that what's going on?
Brett: But they, I think they use the light as a reference point for where the earth ends and the air begins and their life gets worse.
atack2010: Yeah.
atack2010: e
Brett: Um, and so, so they feel like it, it makes them feel like almost artificially, like they've moved closer to the surface.
atack2010: The more don't go towards the light.
Alexis: I'm too high.
atack2010: Yeah.
Brett: And so they need to dig deeper. And so they will generally go away from it. I was experimenting actually um with trying to get them to fully move out of their castings and into a ah second or I guess a third bin.
Josh: in the room.
Alexis: Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
atack2010: Yeah.
Brett: So you've got your base bin that catches, you've got your top bin, like what Alexis described with the holes in it. And in this case, it would be like big enough that they could fit through it, but not just like a fall through it accidentally.
Alexis: Mm hmm.
Brett: And then a second bin or a third bin, I guess, that also had holes in it where you could put some food in bedding and try to encourage them to move a middle bin.
Alexis: Mm hmm. A middle bin. Mm hmm.
Brett: So you stack bin with worms into bin with bedding and holes in the bottom into other bin and encourage yeah into the catchment bin and encourage them to move through those holes into their new food source through a blend of
Alexis: Catch my bin.
Brett: just tantalizing them with those sweet, sweet morsels and also ah using a little bit a little bit of light.
atack2010: Yeah.
atack2010: How did that work out? Yeah.
Brett: um It worked okay. i think i I made me wonder if the light alone was just enough, um but they do they do move through the holes.
Alexis: Mm hmm.
atack2010: Hmm.
Alexis: Mm hmm.
Brett: That is for sure.
atack2010: That did work though.
Brett: ah Yeah.
atack2010: Oh, cool.
Brett: What did you do, Alexis?
Alexis: Yeah, there is that that fancy bin system that I've not figured out because it's too dang fancy for me is um ah set up that way where there's um these ah lay these these layers and they they stack on top of each other.
Josh: I think.
atack2010: Hmm.
Alexis: And it's cool because you can once you harvest from one, you can move it back to the top and and kind of this endless cycle.
atack2010: It's almost like we do in beekeeping. It's very it's very similar i mean very similar to queen excluders.
Alexis: Yeah, yeah, it's very similar to that and to get them to move into the different areas.
Brett: Yeah, very similar.
atack2010: Yeah.
Alexis: But I have the simple system. And so I've used the light where I just leave the lid off and let them dive down and I scrape off a layer and they go down deeper and I scrape off a layer.
atack2010: oh god
Alexis: ah What I've begun doing just because of for time's sake and is I dump them all out in a big big box or on a big tarp or whatever and I spread it relatively thin except for one kind of area right in the middle that's a little thicker and then they kind of majority of them go to that thick area to get escape the light.
Josh: We did.
Alexis: I harvest all of the thin stuff and then that ah thick area I put back in into the worm bin and I start over again.
atack2010: Thanks.
Alexis: ah You're going to sacrifice some worms, but the way I think of it is they're not all going to be sacrificed because some of them are living in my house and my houseplants right now.
Brett: Yeah.
Alexis: But um you know some of them will just be there.
Brett: Yeah.
Alexis: They'll do some work while it's still warm. And then when winter hits, they'll probably die and they're not an invasive worm to our area. So I don't feel bad about doing that.
Brett: Yeah.
Josh: to join the soil food web.
Brett: what one other One other thing I think just to point out about the worm versus a regular typical compost pile, and this is only it this only really um applies if your actual your other compost pile actually gets hot enough to be able to kill microbes.
Alexis: Mm -hmm.
Brett: But they a worm bin does not get hot. By definition, we've talked with Alexis or Alexis mentioned, like, no, they actually like it pretty chill, similar temperatures to what we like.
Alexis: No.
Alexis: Same. Yeah.
Brett: And so that means it's never going to get hot enough to kill any sort of microbial anything. um And it's just it's just something to think about.
Alexis: Right.
Brett: A lot of people who neglect their compost piles see me. ah They don't get that hot anyway, either.
Josh: Yeah.
Brett: And in fact, they get into this like
Alexis: Yeah, name.
Brett: gross zone where they're actually probably promoting some of those things and I'm just turning it and turning it and turning it and letting it kind of just be warm enough long enough.
Alexis: Mhmm.
Brett: But um so there's just something to think about. If you're if you're a dedicated composter or you're interested in putting these out on crops that you're going to maybe use um or I'm sorry not use but you're going to try to sell or you're going to rely on them in some way.
Alexis: Mhmm. Mhmm.
Brett: It's just be careful about what you put in there, make sure you're managing it well. I mean, it's it's it's the general principles of of any sort of um managing those kinds of inputs, but it is something to to think about.
Alexis: So get a worm bin, it's fun.
Brett: Yeah, they they they are very cool. yeah i'm Now I'm like, man, do I need to get a worm bin again?
Alexis: I have worms if you need some, so.
Brett: cause Okay.
atack2010: You're going to get excited about this. bra You're going to have to do it.
Brett: Yeah, well, i I'll go ahead and confess after our compost episode, I finally bit the bullet and did something that I have been wanting to do for a long time, which is I bought a ah shredder capable of shredding cardboard boxes.
atack2010: and what
atack2010: Oh, nice.
Josh: a Oh, wow.
Brett: And so I'm now generating a lot of brown material from what would have gone to land.
atack2010: Yeah.
Alexis: Nice.
Josh: it was
Alexis: To go with all those veggies, yeah.
Brett: Yeah, exactly.
atack2010: Well, it takes up a lot less room once shredded though, I bet. I mean, you can really, I bet it's amazing.
Brett: Oh my gosh, it's crazy.
atack2010: Yeah. I'd love to have one of those.
Brett: It is crazy. Yeah, the ah it's just it's just a standard paper shredder from Amazon, but it's like a 24 sheet capacity or something like that.
atack2010: Yeah.
Alexis: Uh -huh.
Josh: Oh, well okay.
atack2010: Like heavy duty.
Brett: So it's like very beefy and heavy, but ah it is has been well worked, because i was I was literally having to buy brown material, because I just didn't have, I don't have access to, I live in a suburb and I have no have no land.
Alexis: Oh no.
Josh: yeah right
Alexis: Yeah, yeah.
atack2010: No, no oak trees and chop up the wood.
Brett: Yeah, exactly. So now now so you all you all continue to inspire me and now I'm guessing maybe i'll maybe I'll bring some of the spark back for me and Annie by bringing worms.
Josh: You're right.
Brett: Remind us of our younger selves.
Alexis: ah Back in the household.
Brett: Yeah.
Josh: Renew your vows.
atack2010: Yeah, the honeymoon period's back.
Brett: yeah like
Alexis: Over the worm bin.
Josh: yeah
atack2010: Love it.
Alexis: I love it. Well, yeah, if you want any more info on worms, I know I've done lots of presentations on that over the years, and I'd be more than happy to send you a PDF version. So email, ah you know, our emails in the show notes, you can shoot us an email, just say, I need worm help. And we will figure that out. And I will send you, I'm happy to send you that PDF with a little more um instruction in it as and you can also ask us any questions if you've been having trouble with them or you want to get started. ah I'm always eager to help people because I think it's a really great way for anybody to be able to do ah composting and it's just it's I think it's kind of like a super food for your plants. so
Alexis: highly recommend if you've got the time and a little bit of space ah to do that. And you can also follow us on Instagram at hort culture podcast and you can DM us on there. You'll find pictures of my worms ah on there for this episode. So if you've got any questions or want to see what some of that ah harvested compost looks like, because I do think it looks a little bit different than regular compost. Mine is always just black. It's almost it's kind ofs very tacky. ah and In a way, it holds on to a lot of moisture, a lot of nutrients and stuff in there. and ah That, I think, will wrap us up. ah Thank you for being here today with us. We hope that as we grow this podcast, you will grow with us and you'll join us next time. Have a great one.
