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Taming the Tasty Tomato: Mid to Late Season Care
82 Plays4 months ago
Tomato season is in full swing, but keeping those plants thriving through the summer heat can be a challenge. In this episode of Hort Culture, we tackle mid to late season tomato care. Join us as we discuss:
- Identifying and preventing common tomato problems like blossom end rot and sunscald.
- Maximizing your harvest with proper ripening techniques and sucker control.
- Extending the season: Learn how to keep your tomato plants producing delicious fruit well into fall.
Whether you're a seasoned gardener or a tomato newbie, this episode has tips to help you bring in a bountiful harvest. Tune in and get ready to enjoy the taste of summer!
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Questions/Comments/Feedback/Suggestions for Topics: [email protected]
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Transcript
Caffeine and Sleeping Patterns
00:00:16
Alexis
How's everybody doing today? How we feeling?
00:00:19
atack2010
Happy.
00:00:19
Josh
Good.
00:00:19
Alexis
Yeah, it's hot.
00:00:20
Josh
I'm like on my second cup of green tea, so I am lit up.
00:00:23
Alexis
Oh, lit up green tea.
00:00:23
atack2010
Yes.
00:00:26
Alexis
I wish two cups of green tea would get me lit up anymore.
00:00:26
Brett
Okay.
00:00:29
Alexis
and i I think I have a problem.
00:00:31
Brett
Okay.
00:00:31
atack2010
I did coffee followed by tea.
00:00:32
Josh
I will not be getting any sleep tonight.
00:00:36
atack2010
Oh, no, I could do the caffeine and lay down and go to sleep. and that That may indicate that I have a problem, maybe.
00:00:39
Alexis
Yeah. Yeah, I can fall asleep, but I don't stay asleep if I drink caffeine like after six o'clock.
00:00:41
atack2010
I don't know.
00:00:45
atack2010
That's a good point.
00:00:46
Alexis
So.
00:00:46
atack2010
That's a good point. Yeah. Never thought of it that way now that you've done it.
00:00:47
Alexis
Yeah. Yeah, I can I actually I fall asleep too quickly, ah which I'm told is a bad sign that you should not fall asleep within three seconds of your head hitting the pillow.
00:00:59
Brett
but Based on what?
00:00:59
Josh
That sounds, who was, yeah, who was telling you that?
00:01:00
Brett
Like like an omen?
00:01:02
Alexis
That's. That's like a um like a health indicator that you're exot like you're overly exhausted.
00:01:06
atack2010
i did Are we talking about going to sleep or passing out?
00:01:06
Josh
Exhaust. right right I could see that.
00:01:08
Brett
Oh, yeah.
00:01:08
atack2010
Yeah.
00:01:09
Alexis
Mm hmm.
00:01:09
atack2010
Okay.
00:01:09
Brett
Gotcha.
00:01:09
atack2010
Okay. Okay.
00:01:10
Alexis
Yep, yep.
00:01:11
Brett
Well, do you also feel signs of exhaustion throughout the day?
00:01:11
atack2010
it's
00:01:14
Alexis
Who, me?
00:01:14
Josh
but
00:01:14
atack2010
there's a There's a little light going off on the side of your eye that says low battery and you're just like, ah.
00:01:15
Josh
and
00:01:18
Brett
No. Because I don't think that the falling asleep is the the main concern here.
00:01:22
Josh
The problem. right yeah
00:01:26
Alexis
What are you talking about?
00:01:27
atack2010
Do you see any black vultures while you are falling asleep?
00:01:32
Alexis
Um, well, uh, sometimes, but, uh, yeah, no, that's, you're not supposed to, supposed to do that.
00:01:35
atack2010
OK.
00:01:39
atack2010
I didn't realize that.
00:01:39
Alexis
Apparently. Does, does anybody else twitch really bad when they fall asleep? Like, has anybody ever told you that they like you?
00:01:44
atack2010
I do the falling.
00:01:45
Josh
I have those like sleep jerking kind of thing, you know, like the falling thing.
00:01:46
atack2010
the Yes.
00:01:48
Alexis
Yeah, but some people like, some people it's like a little twitches and then some people it's like violent.
00:01:48
Brett
That's normal.
00:01:48
Josh
Yeah. Yeah.
00:01:49
atack2010
Yeah.
00:01:53
atack2010
No, i I don't know.
00:01:54
Alexis
I think, uh, apparently I'm a violent sleep twitcher.
00:01:57
atack2010
Like you're fighting packs of gnomes in your sleep?
00:01:58
Alexis
So you wake yourself up.
00:01:58
Josh
That doesn't surprise me.
00:02:02
atack2010
No.
00:02:03
Josh
That's sort of like your waking state, so I would expect it to be the same as your sleeping state.
00:02:05
Brett
Yeah.
00:02:06
atack2010
Consistent, yeah.
00:02:07
Brett
Yeah, if there's a set of options from mild and chill to extreme and intense, you're probably going to choose option D in this case.
00:02:14
atack2010
Bruce Lee.
00:02:16
Alexis
Violence is the answer.
00:02:17
Brett
Yeah.
00:02:18
atack2010
yeah
00:02:19
Josh
Sleep fight.
00:02:19
Brett
No, I did.
00:02:20
Josh
and There's sleep tears, and then there's sleep fighting.
00:02:23
Brett
Yeah.
00:02:23
atack2010
Yeah.
00:02:24
Alexis
I'm not scared of anything ever.
00:02:25
Brett
And then I think of it as sleep winning.
00:02:26
Josh
like
00:02:27
atack2010
When I'm awake.
00:02:28
Alexis
ah you That is, I realized the other day what is kind of always my answer to something.
00:02:30
Josh
yeah
00:02:32
Alexis
If somebody gives me a weird look, I'm like, you want to fight? like And I was like, that's not usually the best thing to say, but um out,
00:02:38
Josh
All right.
00:02:40
Brett
Yeah, you're lucky you're lucky that my head just hit the pillow three seconds ago or you'd be in trouble right now.
00:02:44
atack2010
Listen.
00:02:45
Alexis
done.
00:02:46
atack2010
Listen. In your genetic background, fight or flight, there is no flight, Alexis.
00:02:48
Alexis
well good um
00:02:52
atack2010
There's no flight.
00:02:52
Alexis
I don't know.
00:02:53
atack2010
There's fightder fight or harder.
00:02:53
Alexis
yeah i guess Well, it depends.
00:02:54
Brett
Well.
00:02:55
Alexis
Am I having to call so ah call someone for my own like ah personal things? Because in that case, I'm like, I ain't doing it. like if i I live my life. I can call all day long, call people I've never met, never heard from, and be like, hi, I'm Alexis. Let me help you with your tomatoes, which is what we're talking about today and we will get to eventually. um But if you ask me to call and make a doctor's appointment, I'm like, ah I'm good. I don't o i don't think.
00:03:22
Josh
I'll get to that when there's a problem.
00:03:22
Alexis
I don't think don't think I actually need to go to the doctor. They're like, no, but like your
00:03:26
Josh
yeah
Myths and Facts about Foods Impacting Sleep
00:03:28
Alexis
leg is falling off.
00:03:28
Alexis
I think I'm OK. Like it's fine.
00:03:30
atack2010
It's fun. It's fun. It's just an allergic reaction.
00:03:32
Josh
nice
00:03:33
Brett
Well, I think when i when I think of Sleepy, I think of the the articles and and news stories that come out around Thanksgiving time for tryptophan, right?
00:03:33
Alexis
I don't.
00:03:36
Josh
Yeah.
00:03:44
Alexis
Mm hmm.
00:03:46
Josh
yeah
00:03:46
Brett
And we sort of casually disguise blood sugar crashes after an enormous meal as must be the tryptophan that made me so sleepy.
00:03:55
Josh
and It's all that turkey I ate.
00:03:55
atack2010
Chemical reaction.
00:03:57
Brett
Yeah, it's that turkey, you know?
00:03:58
atack2010
It's the nine pounds of stuffing that I really ate. yeah
00:04:00
Josh
Nothing to do with the 18 rolls I stuffed in my face.
00:04:00
Brett
It wasn't the...
00:04:01
Alexis
no Eight pieces of pie.
00:04:03
Brett
Yeah. The A1C roller coaster I was just on, nothing to do with what's happening right now with this sleepiness. But another another chemical that I feel like has gotten a lot of ah press and cred across time has been lycopene.
00:04:19
Josh
who
00:04:19
atack2010
and
00:04:19
Alexis
Ooh, ooh.
00:04:19
Josh
It's in ketchup.
00:04:20
atack2010
ah
00:04:21
Brett
Yeah, it's in ketchup. That's why I drink a bottle a day.
00:04:23
Alexis
And what what is ketchup made of, Josh?
00:04:24
Josh
okay
00:04:27
Josh
of vegetables only.
00:04:28
atack2010
Happiness.
00:04:30
Brett
yeah tomatoes yeah from the family that gave you some poisons the nightshade comes
00:04:30
Alexis
yeah Tomatoes.
00:04:30
atack2010
Yes.
00:04:31
Josh
Tomatoes. Tomatoes and a little vinegar and salt for you know to bring out the flavor of the tomato.
00:04:34
atack2010
Tomatoes.
00:04:38
Alexis
o
00:04:39
atack2010
To boost it up.
00:04:39
Alexis
Nightshade.
00:04:44
Josh
It is good company, potato.
00:04:47
Brett
comes on of America's very favorite in in ah in the top levels of consumption as far as the vegetables that Americans consume.
00:04:48
Alexis
yeah
00:04:53
atack2010
Absolutely.
00:04:56
Brett
I believe it's tomatoes, lettuce, and then potatoes.
00:05:00
Josh
Wow.
00:05:00
Brett
The order may have changed over time, but you know if you're thinking what you're looking at there, you got maybe a salad or a hamburger, but you got ketchup, you got tomato sauce, you got, ah I already said ketchup because I love it, fries, baked potato,
00:05:01
Alexis
Potato.
00:05:10
Josh
Ketchup and fries.
Homegrown vs Store-Bought Tomatoes
00:05:17
Brett
But today we're talking about the number one, the the the red beating heart of the American vegetable palette, the tomato.
00:05:17
atack2010
True.
00:05:17
Alexis
and
00:05:25
Josh
Mm hmm.
00:05:26
Alexis
Definitely of the garden. Yeah.
00:05:27
atack2010
It is in the garden. It is in just about it.
00:05:29
Alexis
Yeah. because nobody
00:05:29
Brett
I can't, you know, I can't tell the difference between homegrown tomatoes and the ones from the store.
00:05:34
Alexis
You lie.
00:05:35
atack2010
It depends on if the ones at the store came from a local source.
00:05:36
Brett
I tried to. I was trying to I was trying to get you guys, but.
00:05:40
Josh
He only goes to that grocery store that has homegrown tomatoes. He's one of those guys, so it's true.
00:05:44
Alexis
Hmm.
00:05:45
Brett
Yeah.
00:05:45
Alexis
Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
00:05:47
atack2010
It is tomato season now.
00:05:48
Alexis
Whatever.
00:05:48
Brett
latin The Latin term is ginger fire.
00:05:50
atack2010
Yes, that's it. That's it. That's the one.
00:05:54
Alexis
So we know.
00:05:54
atack2010
Tomatoes are going right now. Yeah, they're going.
00:05:57
Alexis
Yeah, we know that you all have, well, hopefully you're listening to this. And if you plan on growing a tomato, you are currently growing a tomato because it is the middle of tomato season. So for most people or middle beginning, depending on where you're at in the state. But ah so we just thought we'd hit on some things that you may be running into at this stage because tomatoes are typically really easy when you get them started. They grow really quickly. Um, although my husband is growing his very first tomato plant, uh, this year in a pot and every day he goes and looks at it and he goes, it's not doing anything.
00:06:26
Josh
Yeah.
00:06:34
Alexis
I'm like, it has. yeah know
00:06:34
atack2010
I think tomatoes are, they're a lot harder to grow in containers.
00:06:37
atack2010
I mean, they really, really they they can be hard to grow, especially depending on what your medium is.
00:06:37
Alexis
Well.
00:06:41
atack2010
Yeah.
00:06:41
Alexis
He's got like five tomatoes on it. It's doing well. And ah he he every time he looks at it, he goes, it just looks wilty.
00:06:44
atack2010
Okay.
00:06:49
Alexis
And you know I'm like, honey, that's the way tomatoes look.
00:06:50
atack2010
That's, that's physiological leaf roll.
00:06:51
Alexis
They just look that way.
00:06:52
Josh
and
00:06:55
Alexis
No, it just...
00:06:55
Josh
What? Have you gotten an idea of where it hits references, like a Disney plant singing or something?
00:06:56
Brett
it just It's just gotten leaves that are big enough.
00:07:00
Alexis
ah i I don't know.
00:07:01
atack2010
Salsa.
00:07:02
Brett
You just looked at a bunch of clipart of tomato plants before you did there.
00:07:05
Josh
people
00:07:05
Alexis
I think so, honestly. honestly ah this His engineer brain is like, I see no numbers on the plant.
00:07:07
Josh
It's not smiling at me, Alexis. It needs to go to the dentist.
00:07:13
Brett
right
00:07:13
Alexis
um so I don't understand what data points you're giving me right now.
00:07:14
Josh
There's no gears. There's no motors. I can't hear the engine running.
00:07:19
atack2010
Hmm.
00:07:20
Brett
what What variety what variety or or sort of type of variety did he start out with?
00:07:20
Alexis
so um
00:07:25
Alexis
Well, that's the fun part. ah We don't know because it was a sprout that came out of my high tunnel that I've never grown tomatoes in before.
00:07:31
atack2010
Wow.
00:07:32
Alexis
So I said, hey, look, there's a tomato coming up.
00:07:32
Josh
Oh.
00:07:33
atack2010
you
00:07:33
Brett
Wow.
00:07:35
Alexis
And this was in, I don't know, ah November or something like that. And I said, look, there's tomato coming up. And he was like, oh, can I keep it? And so he dug it up and he's been babying it throughout this, you know, winter.
00:07:45
Brett
Wow.
00:07:45
atack2010
Hmm.
00:07:49
Alexis
in the greenhouse and uh so yeah but i think it's gonna be a pretty big one like i think it's gonna be you know ah like a small slicer size no it's not a cherry i was really surprised so i'll i'll post photos when we know what it is ah ah a cow giant pumpkin well
00:07:51
Josh
And it's fruiting. That's cool.
00:07:56
atack2010
Not like a cherry tomato. Okay.
00:07:58
Brett
wow
00:07:59
Josh
Wow.
00:08:00
atack2010
Yeah.
00:08:03
Brett
Well, with that sort of virgin birth story, maybe you should save the seeds and take them to town and trade them for a cow or something.
00:08:06
atack2010
Yeah.
00:08:10
atack2010
yeah
00:08:10
Josh
yeah These are my magic tomato seeds.
00:08:10
Brett
Yeah. Exactly.
00:08:15
atack2010
and The heirloom, to the tomato swap people are pretty serious when they go to swap um seeds. I mean, if you've ever been to a seed swap or they were swapping tomatoes, those people take that
Understanding Tomato Varieties: Hybrid vs Heirloom
00:08:25
atack2010
very seriously. So, yeah.
00:08:26
Brett
Well, so Ray, you said one of the H words. So maybe oh that's a point of orientation in case folks aren't familiar with the general types of tomatoes. You have hybrids and you have heirlooms or open pollinated and hybridized or something.
00:08:40
Josh
Mm
00:08:40
atack2010
Yeah, ah and. ah Yeah.
00:08:43
Brett
Yeah.
00:08:44
atack2010
Yeah. And there's ah sometimes a long history of people that will save their favorite varieties.
00:08:45
Alexis
Hmm. Hmm.
00:08:48
atack2010
and And, you know, I think of green beans and tomatoes come to mind first when I think of people that that seed save. And, ah you know, we kind of were joking earlier a few minutes ago that, you know, tomatoes are all the same, commercial tomatoes versus home tomatoes. Well, the interesting thing is there there are differences.
00:09:05
Josh
hmm.
00:09:07
atack2010
in tomatoes even beyond like the heirlooms versus non-heirlooms, but the older varieties of tomatoes typically were selected first and foremost for their um you know purpose, first of all, fresh eating or canning. But more than anything, you know flavor, ah not shipping quality, and that's not to knock commercially bre tomatoes bred for commercial purposes. But tomatoes are something that the way that they're shipped and packaged, they have to have a pretty thick wall.
00:09:38
atack2010
So commercial varieties are selected for that just as much as they are for anything else. And that's not a bad thing. That's not to say you can't get a good, you know, quality eating tomato. But there definitely is a difference to me in the heirloom varieties that have really, they're thin skinned. Thin-walled, very fleshy, very juicy in a lot of cases, depending on if you're talking about like a Cherokee purple or an ox heart, all of these awesome heirlooms that people love, but but they were selected for the eating quality first and foremost, not for shipping long distances.
00:09:54
Alexis
Mmhmm.
00:10:06
Alexis
Mmhmm.
00:10:08
atack2010
And thank goodness, you know, we have tomato varieties that you can ship long distances. I can have a tasty tomato in the middle of wintertime. So I'm not going to knock that, but I'm going to tell you that my preference for eating tomatoes will be some of those varieties that were developed first and foremost for home use.
Challenges in Growing Tomatoes
00:10:25
Alexis
Mm hmm.
00:10:25
atack2010
ah So yeah, heirloom tomatoes i have a long history in home gardens.
00:10:25
Josh
Mmm.
00:10:31
atack2010
And there's a lot of considerations we can talk now because I typically I don't know about you guys, but I start to get a lot of calls this time of year, you know, for diseases and, you know, some different problems with tomatoes that tend to show up now.
00:10:38
Alexis
Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
00:10:45
atack2010
But heirloom tomatoes, we get a higher percentage of costs from those because some of those don't have the disease resistance packages built in. Remember, we're talking about heirlooms. They tend to be older bred seeds. um So they you have to treat those a little bit differently sometime. But I do love my heirloom tomatoes, Brett. Do love them. Yes.
00:11:06
Brett
Well, Alexis, I think you're you're probably the, what is it, CPD, the chief plant dork of the podcast.
00:11:15
Alexis
I am flattered.
00:11:15
Brett
ah Yeah.
00:11:16
Alexis
Thank you so much for that.
00:11:18
Brett
Congratulations on the new title that we just made up.
00:11:18
Alexis
Thank you. Oh my God.
00:11:20
atack2010
CBD.
00:11:20
Brett
ah And finally made it to the C-suite, baby. um So can you just give us a sort of brief distinction between the open pollinated AKA or overlapping with heirloom?
00:11:24
Josh
Hehehe.
00:11:35
Brett
versus some of the hybrid stuff. I mean, as you talk about, you found a seed. If you found a seed from an heirloom plant versus from a a hybrid plant, there might be ah more of a dice roll in one case or the other. Can you just give us just a short orientation to that? Because I hear that a lot and sometimes I wonder if I know or even other people know what it means.
00:11:54
Alexis
yeah Yeah, and ah you know Ray, if you if I misspeak or don't fully ah you know educate, let you know feel free to jump in here. but so So yeah, heirlooms are typically something that can be ah crossed and so and a lot of our hybrids have come from and heirloom breeding basically. I think a lot of people get the word like hybrid confused with GMO and I know we've talked about that on here before so I'm not gonna go like super deep into those types of things but ah tomato hybrids are just just natural or not it's not natural selection it's human selection so we've been doing that for thousands of years.
00:12:33
atack2010
Mm hmm.
00:12:35
Alexis
and But with our hybrids now, if you take a seed out of that hybrid plant, it's most likely that seed is going to come back as the plant ah that it was, where with an heirloom, if you've got a ox heart right next to a pink brandy wine, and the way the flowers are set up, um you know there's potential for bees to cross. Most tomatoes are self pollinating ah naturally, just the way the flower is arranged, but ah there's a lot more likelihood of those being able to cross. And so then if you get seed from the tomato on your pink brandy wine, that seed is you know the child of that pink brandy wine, and it could be the offspring of your oxbow and your ah pink brandy wine combined.
00:13:18
atack2010
Yeah.
00:13:18
Alexis
so And that's kind of like the open pollinate is the same thing.
00:13:21
atack2010
Yeah.
00:13:22
Alexis
But tomatoes for the most part, which is why saving seed for them is really popular, are self pollinating.
00:13:25
atack2010
and yeah
00:13:28
Alexis
You do get, like I said, some bumblebees that'll just like buzz about and they're like, oh, this looks good. And they put their big old selves in there and and do that. But the flowers for the most part are, which is why I think there's such a culture around.
00:13:37
atack2010
and Yeah. they're gonna come back true to top no matter what. ah any ah That's one thing about heirlooms is they generally, in almost any instance I can think of, if it's a true heirloom, what we call an heirloom, which you know can be kind of a vague term, but because the way that it is pollinated, um it will come back true to top year after year, very consistent, and that's a, yeah.
00:14:00
Alexis
But you could do your own breeding of them if you wanted to, where you can go in and, you know, you're like, I really like the traits of this weird heirloom over here. I'm going to cross it with, you know, this one over here because this one has good fruit, but this one has disease resistant. And you could, you know, do your own little breeding program and you go back to what was that guy's name um with the peas. the
00:14:20
atack2010
Unit.
00:14:21
Alexis
Um, no, the, the jeans talks about jeans and he bred, uh, peas.
00:14:21
Brett
Johnny PC.
00:14:22
Josh
Oh, um Mendel, Mendelbrot.
00:14:22
Brett
Oh.
00:14:23
atack2010
not
00:14:27
Brett
Oh yeah.
00:14:29
Alexis
Um, Oh my gosh.
00:14:30
Brett
Mendel, that's what Josh just said.
00:14:30
Josh
Mendel, yeah, yeah.
00:14:31
Alexis
Mendel. Yeah.
00:14:32
atack2010
Yeah.
00:14:32
Alexis
Yeah. Yeah. Uh, so yeah, the Punnett square.
00:14:33
Brett
The Punnett Square.
00:14:34
Josh
Yeah, yeah.
00:14:34
Alexis
So you go, you can go back to your Punnett square and be doing stuff like that. But, um, we, we've done an episode where we talk about that a little bit more. So if that interests you or, you know, shoot us a message and we can go, more into detail. I just don't want people to freak out about hybrid. I hear that a lot. People are like, oh, I can't have hybrids. It's like, no, it's like no different than your golden doodle.
00:14:53
atack2010
No, natural hybridization occurs like sweet corn, like in corn in your garden, if you have two or three varieties, it's going to hybridize itself.
00:14:53
Alexis
Like.
00:14:54
Brett
Yeah.
00:14:55
Josh
All
00:14:58
Alexis
Mm hmm.
00:15:00
atack2010
You have a sweet corn on one side, yellow on the other, then you're going to come up with Indian corn, mysteriously.
00:15:00
Alexis
Mm hmm.
00:15:05
Alexis
Yeah.
00:15:06
atack2010
If you save the seed, so some of those things, ah they can cross between different parentage. So yeah, not to get caught up on all that.
00:15:12
Alexis
Mm hmm.
00:15:13
Brett
But bottom line, if you if you were to have a tomato that you maybe you got from a home center or something, or it's just a hybrid tomato.
00:15:20
Josh
right.
00:15:22
Brett
If you were to save the seed from that tomato, it's a little bit of a dice roll on what the offspring of that tomato would end up being. So it would almost be like if you had your golden doodle and you had two golden doodles and they had puppies, some of the puppies are going to be golden retrievers, some of them are going to be poodles, and some of them are going to be golden doodles. And so it's just a little bit more of a dice roll on that.
00:15:39
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:15:42
Brett
that that's all to that you know so
00:15:42
Alexis
Yeah, yeah.
00:15:44
Brett
So it's a long game to save a seed from a plant and then plant it and then hope, and then you get these little tiny tomatoes that was the, the let's just say the father plant that had really good disease resistance, but terrible fruit characteristics.
00:15:50
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:15:55
Alexis
Yeah.
00:15:58
Alexis
Yeah, yeah.
00:15:58
Josh
Right.
00:15:59
Brett
And so that kind of opens the door for like, I guess why it is that we don't do some of the hybridization and some of the breeding in the first place.
00:16:01
atack2010
Um...
00:16:02
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:16:05
Brett
And it opens it up to every time that I have grown tomatoes, whether it was for myself or for wages, I just think, You would be nothing without me.
00:16:18
Brett
You wimpy, wimpy, needy,
00:16:19
Alexis
Wow. Wow.
00:16:23
Brett
Delicate I mean and that's what they've done. They've they've bred these plants to grow amazing fruit And everything else they are ah helpless I mean helpless and the more the more you move into the open pollinated heirloom stuff It's even more as far as disease resistance.
00:16:31
Alexis
Suffers. Yeah.
00:16:33
Josh
Totally.
00:16:36
Alexis
Mm hmm.
00:16:39
Brett
They have to be trellis. They have to be pruned They have to all these things that have to be done But anyway tomatoes while amazing delicious peak of the season picked ripe man hard to beat that natural flavor
00:16:43
Josh
Yeah.
00:16:48
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:16:53
atack2010
Yeah.
00:16:53
Brett
But they have a lot of issues and so those those tuning in maybe having a variety of those issues now What are some of those?
00:16:59
Alexis
Yeah, yeah.
00:17:00
atack2010
okay It's kind of like a Edge 22.
00:17:01
Alexis
I, uh...
00:17:02
atack2010
Yeah, they produce a lot, but they have a lot of issues.
00:17:03
Alexis
Yeah.
00:17:04
atack2010
Yeah.
00:17:04
Alexis
Yeah.
00:17:04
Josh
Well, I think of it as like they have like a lot of Habsburg type problems, right? A lot of but a severe inbreeding.
00:17:10
Brett
Yes Yeah, if they were if they could pee it would be blue
00:17:17
Alexis
there Well, I think that some of the ones that a lot of people talk about or notice that they think are disease or insect issues are actually ah physiological disorders. So they're they're abiotic and caused from something like not watering enough, not the right nutrients. ah One that I've already seen this year in my with my high tunnel growers, well, I saw earlier in the season for people who put them in super early. They see a lot of what we call cat facing. And so if you're not familiar with that, it's ah it's just these weird It's usually on the bottom of the tomato, which is the blossom end the opposite side is the stem and it's this Kind of these weird little holes and it looks like some scarring Folds.
00:17:45
atack2010
Yeah.
00:18:00
Josh
Yeah, like holes and folds. kind of it's like yeah It's like a cat making like a cruddy face.
00:18:03
Alexis
Yeah.
00:18:03
Brett
lines lines Lines like whiskers.
00:18:03
Alexis
Yeah, just
00:18:06
Josh
Yeah, yeah that's true.
00:18:06
Brett
Yeah.
00:18:06
Alexis
Yes, yeah. so ah But cat facing, so it's usually called but ah caused by poor pollination, which I think is what people don't ah think about. And so that poor pollination, even though tomatoes are mostly self pollinating, so we don't typically see problems, if it's too hot or too cold, like if there's severe drought conditions because they're divas, right?
00:18:27
atack2010
Yeah, we see that a lot in the cool springs, caprese seems real prevalent.
00:18:29
Alexis
Yeah. So those high tunnels, those early growers see it, but you'll see it also in July when it's a hundred degrees, um, that you get poor pollination.
00:18:31
atack2010
Yeah. Yeah.
00:18:35
atack2010
Yeah.
00:18:38
Alexis
And so what that means is that those seeds, the little ovaries in there, uh, they don't get pollinated. And so then those seeds don't develop. And so then therefore the, um, the tomato, the outside of actual fruit part of it that protects those seeds and in there. ah doesn't develop around anything. so You get these weird folds and holes because there's no seeds in there for it to develop around. and so We see that a lot. and there's really you know Most of the time it's that you haven't done anything.
00:19:09
Alexis
Sometimes you know maybe you need to water more consistently, but most most of the time there's just it's not your fault, it's nature and there's only so much you can do to control that.
00:19:12
atack2010
Mm hmm.
00:19:18
Alexis
so
00:19:18
Brett
So what should i what should I spray for the blossom end rot that I'm getting?
00:19:18
Alexis
um
00:19:18
atack2010
Yeah.
00:19:24
Alexis
He's baiting me because most likely nothing.
00:19:25
atack2010
Water.
00:19:27
Alexis
Yeah, water. Unless the only exception is if you're growing in a pot or a raised bed with like um potting soil in your raised bed.
00:19:29
atack2010
Yeah.
00:19:35
Alexis
So it's not a natural soil environment. um That's the only scenario where I will tell you that you might need calcium in the soil, not on the plant.
00:19:44
Brett
so So can you paint paint a picture of what Blossom Enrot looks like for me?
00:19:48
Alexis
Yeah. Yeah. So blossom Enron is the opposite side of the stem because that's where the blossom was. And basically what happens is the plant does not uptake enough calcium and so cells do not form properly and then a secondary rot comes in. So the problem is that there are is holes formed because there's no so cells to make them, they're not strong. And then because there's a weak spot, you can get any kind of fungus that comes in there. and you know, makes it look weird and it's rotten on the bottom side. So if you ever picked a tomato and it looks beautiful and you flip it over and it's got a rotten spot on the bottom, that's blossom end rot.
00:20:26
atack2010
And you you don't get calcium movement in a plant.
00:20:27
Josh
And.
00:20:29
atack2010
It's one of those interesting scenarios. No water movement directly equals no calcium movement in the plant nest over the cell walls.
00:20:35
Alexis
It's a non-mobile.
00:20:36
atack2010
So we see this from uneven watering. Either you you go through a boom and bust cycle. We see that a lot in unirrigated home gardens that have a natural fluctuation in water availability.
00:20:47
Alexis
Mm hmm.
00:20:47
atack2010
And that's what it boils down to in most situations in a home garden where we see a lot of that. uh blossom end rot is the calcium will be present in the soil but because there's this uneven uptake of water the calcium the um the molecule can't move into the plant through the plant it's heavy it's hard to move around it has to be moved with water and the most extreme part of the plant is the blossom end that's the farthest point and unfortunately the farthest point is where the fruit is that's what we want in the plant
00:21:13
Alexis
Mm hmm.
00:21:16
atack2010
And so we have this, this rot that sits in. um So to correct that, you guys, you guys nailed it is a good, even watering throughout the growing season. And most home home gardeners can alleviate that because most of our soils have an adequate amount of calcium, but we don't have adequately even watering.
00:21:32
Alexis
in Kentucky.
00:21:34
atack2010
In Kentucky, now, if you're talking about more sandy soils, Josh, I know some of you guys have experienced in soils that that's not the case, probably, in other parts of the country.
00:21:34
Alexis
Yeah.
00:21:41
Josh
Yeah.
00:21:42
atack2010
There may legitimately be, there're there are commercially, there's some concerns there with hearts ratios and, and you know, lack of calcium or growth rates. There's some other issues, but for home gardens, in Kentucky, we typically, you know, we start talking about water schedules first and foremost. Now, if you're talking about raised beds, it even a different issue than that, because I think that blossom end rot in raised beds is a lot worse for tomatoes. And there, it can actually be watering and an issue with calc calcium and pH to a lesser extent.
00:22:06
Alexis
Well, right.
00:22:10
Alexis
Calcium.
00:22:12
Alexis
Cause there's no native soil. So, you know, adding lime, um, or, you know, and from on your peppers as well.
00:22:14
atack2010
Yeah, yeah. We're seeing a ton of that this time of year in July is that's one of our most common phone calls. We'll be raised beds with, uh, blossom end rot. Um, yeah, yeah.
00:22:26
Alexis
I know we're talking about tomatoes, but peppers, any of those solanaceous crops, you can get blossom and rod on pretty good.
00:22:30
atack2010
Mm-hmm.
00:22:32
Alexis
Um, and.
00:22:33
Josh
is cracking one that you all get ah calls about too?
00:22:33
Brett
So that the splitting
00:22:36
Josh
Like as a similar, you know, not watering, cracking like the top.
00:22:36
Alexis
Yeah.
00:22:37
atack2010
What is that?
00:22:39
Alexis
Cracking.
00:22:40
atack2010
Oh yeah. She'll rough shoulders and cracking and that, that relates to what the uneven watering too.
00:22:43
Alexis
Mm hmm.
00:22:45
Josh
Yeah.
00:22:46
atack2010
that boom and bust with those radial cracks and then there's linear cracks and both equal the same thing. They can either go around the stem or radiate out from the stem and both are from the they're for from the same thing.
00:22:54
Alexis
Mm hmm. Yeah, cracking is like really fast growth. So it's like stretch marks.
00:23:02
Josh
Mm hmm.
00:23:02
Alexis
So ah for, for your plant, that's an easy way to think about it. So if you're going through drought and then you get a ton of rain for a week, uh, those tomatoes will crack because they're growing so quickly because they've kind of had this. you know, boom and bust situation, but um yeah, that's one. One I see a lot, and there's, again, nothing you can do about it, which is both sometimes you' a relief, but also sometimes very frustrating, is zippering, which is not like, you know, people still so sell these plants at, farm you know, or these things at farmer's market, but if you're one of those, you need like a perfect tomato zippering, ah kind of exactly what it sounds like is where you get this sort of scar line, and it's usually from and the where the stem is all the way down to the bottom,
00:23:44
Alexis
And it's just this line of like callus. It kind of looks like a zipper that forms. And that is, um, ah it's up botanically that the anther, which is the part of the flower, which is the male part that contains the pollen, it gets stuck.
00:23:51
Brett
Okay.
00:24:01
Alexis
And it so as the fruit grows, it just kind of creates this scar basically, cause it gets stuck. And the only thing you can do about that is pick a variety that doesn't tend to get
Solanaceous Plants: Growth and Feeding Needs
00:24:11
Alexis
stuck. So there's, you didn't do anything wrong. Uh, so if it makes you feel better, if you're getting that, uh, but it's, it's usually not a big deal. You can still eat them. That's the other thing is people are always worried like, what can I eat this? Yeah. If it's a little rotten spot, cut it out. You're going to be fine to eat a tomato that has some scars on the outside.
00:24:31
Brett
So one one subtle thing that Alexis mentioned earlier, and I just wanna hammer home in case we have folks who are newer to this or exploring, she mentioned the this crazy word starting with S, solanaceous.
00:24:39
Alexis
Mmm.
00:24:43
Josh
Mm.
00:24:44
Brett
And this is something we talked about before, we covered cucurbits a couple of episodes back, um cucurbits being a family of plants like cucumbers and melons, et cetera.
00:24:48
atack2010
Mm.
00:24:53
Brett
So another thing that you, a lot of time plant people, and as a non-plant person who has become more of a plant person, I had to learn this, they they talk about plants in families because a lot of times they share common characteristics. And so within that solanaceous family, also known as the nightshade family, you have things like tomatoes, but you also have things like peppers and eggplants and morning glory and a variety of other, you know, different plants.
00:25:17
Josh
Mhm.
00:25:19
Brett
and And, you know, they tend to be heavier feeders. They tend to be, I think of them a lot of times it's like the heat of summer crops or the you know peak of summer crops.
00:25:27
Alexis
Mm hmm.
00:25:29
Brett
ah There are, interestingly, some people who have specific nightshade allergies um within the family, which I think I've met ah the first person that I've known late and I've come across a couple other people.
00:25:32
Alexis
Mm hmm.
00:25:34
atack2010
yeah
00:25:39
Brett
And so that's just something in case there's folks who um are are orienting themselves to this world of horticulture, plant families. is there's not a like There are a lot of them, but there's not a ton of common ones. um And so as you hear people See that, say that like, you know, peas and beans are in the same family, for instance. And then you'll then you'll then you'll get to the point where you're like, start pulling in really obscure things that are in the same family.
00:25:57
atack2010
Yeah. Yeah.
00:26:04
Brett
And you're like, did you know that this is actually in the blah, blah, blah.
00:26:06
Alexis
The asterasi, everything's an asterasi.
00:26:07
Brett
Oh, yeah.
00:26:08
atack2010
Yeah.
00:26:09
Brett
Yeah. Guess that first, if you're on Jeopardy.
00:26:11
Alexis
Yeah, yeah.
00:26:11
atack2010
It's a composite plant.
00:26:11
Josh
Did you know that ah pineapple and Spanish moss are in the same family?
00:26:13
atack2010
Yes.
00:26:16
Brett
Oh.
00:26:16
Josh
You can't eat them both.
00:26:20
Alexis
I mean, you can try.
00:26:20
atack2010
Would not try.
00:26:23
Alexis
You can eat them both at least once.
00:26:23
atack2010
Not recommended. Yeah.
00:26:25
Josh
One of them won't taste good. I'll give you that.
00:26:27
Alexis
Okay.
00:26:28
Brett
Yeah.
00:26:29
atack2010
another Another thing I get a lot this time of year, it seems like every year, ah is a white flash. Alexis, do you get a lot of calls on that where you have an inclusion inside, actually inside the tomato.
00:26:39
Alexis
Mm hmm.
00:26:40
atack2010
On the outside, it's perfect, ah but you have white flash on the inside.
00:26:42
Alexis
Oh, yeah.
00:26:45
Alexis
It's like a quirky. It literally is going to be white and the rest of your tomato is red and it's like a quirky.
00:26:45
atack2010
And yes,
00:26:49
atack2010
some verus, yes, and get that call every year. And you can cut around that and salvage some of the tomato, but it is annoying, but that goes back to to a couple things. inconsistent water levels and temperature fluctuations. And if you see a theme here developing where tomatoes don't like these radical tempered temperature fluctuations, you would be correct.
00:27:02
Alexis
Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
00:27:10
atack2010
And that causes ah the flesh to do odd things and it expresses itself as white flesh on the inside of the tomato. But now there is some confusion with white flesh condition, which is on the inside of the tomato, it's harmless, and stink bug damage. Now, stink bug damage, if you look careful at your tomato, you'll actually see stink bug damage that we're seeing this time of year.
00:27:25
Alexis
Mm hmm.
00:27:32
atack2010
On the outside of the tomato, you can actually see the white there where the stink bug feeding causes the plant to have a reaction and it causes a rotten spot to eventually develop, but it starts out as a cloudy area. That's the best way I can describe it. It's cloudy, but if you look at this cloudy area on the outside of the tomato really close, you'll always see a little needle lock brown point where the feeding occurred with the stink bug.
Identifying and Addressing Tomato Issues
00:27:56
Alexis
Mm hmm.
00:27:56
atack2010
But that's the difference between stink bug damage, which is cloudy. You can see it on the outside, the difference between that and white flesh. And I see both of those this time of year and the I've seen people confuse the two, but they're caused by two different things. But that's really common for me to take that call.
00:28:12
Alexis
Hmm hmm.
00:28:13
atack2010
and kind of go through that with ah growers. There are those two things. um
00:28:17
Josh
I'm speaking of kind of like flesh disorders and stuff or or flesh problems within tomatoes, not disorders.
00:28:17
Brett
Swish.
00:28:23
Alexis
you we I think that's the name of the the episode, ah flesh disorders,
00:28:27
atack2010
Flesh, de it should get lots of hits.
00:28:28
Josh
Yeah. yeah
00:28:30
Alexis
and then you know tomatoes in parentheses.
00:28:33
Josh
And ah you know I know we don't want to get too off track with like insect pests, but have either of you all seen the um the silver leaf white fly like thing?
00:28:33
atack2010
Yeah.
00:28:42
Josh
I haven't seen that with my own eyes. I've just seen pictures, but it's very wild. like So if you cut your tomato in half, it'll be ripened on one part and completely green on the other part.
00:28:51
atack2010
not the other yeah
00:28:53
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:28:54
Josh
Kind of wild.
00:28:54
Alexis
Yeah, injects a toxin.
00:28:56
atack2010
related to that but it's not as de demarcated is like if you use too much nitrogen early in the season you get uneven ripening which is not as pronounced as what you're talking about Josh we get a lot of calls on uneven ripening where you get these odd sections of the tomato some's turning some's not which is high nitrogen early season you don't want to do that you don't want to overcook the nitrogen usually low potassium high nitrogen but now what you're talking about is even more pronounced than that ah from what I was saying yeah
00:29:14
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:29:22
Josh
Yeah, it's like green versus red.
00:29:25
Brett
Sounds like a marketing opportunity where you can have fried green tomatoes and a BLT all with one, you know, one, one packet.
00:29:25
atack2010
Yes, it's wild.
00:29:27
Josh
Or Christmas. like
00:29:30
atack2010
There you go.
00:29:32
Josh
Totally. I mean, you get a couple of good slice, good, ah good red slices and then fry the rest.
00:29:33
atack2010
may me me Making some lemonade.
00:29:36
Brett
um
00:29:37
atack2010
There you go.
00:29:38
Brett
You got it.
00:29:38
atack2010
That uneven ripening, that's a big issue some years where, and usually I'll do some investigation and they've applied nitrogen four times in a mineral bay you know natural garden before the first tomatoes on there and I'm like, probably too much nitrogen.
00:29:43
Alexis
Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
00:29:52
atack2010
or delayed roppening, both can happen if you have too much nitrogen, but, uh, yeah.
00:29:55
Brett
if if all If all these problems are overwhelming you with like, oh wow, there's like a million and one things that could go wrong with tomatoes.
00:30:01
Alexis
Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
00:30:03
Brett
Hey, I told you so. They would be nothing without me. But B, there is a really cool publication from from the University of Kentucky ID 172, which is an IPM scouting guide for common pests of solanaceous crops in Kentucky.
00:30:07
Alexis
Divas.
00:30:08
atack2010
Nothing.
00:30:15
Alexis
Mm hmm.
00:30:18
atack2010
Mm-hmm.
00:30:19
Alexis
It's awesome.
00:30:19
Brett
That is really, really good.
00:30:21
atack2010
Yeah, that's a good one.
00:30:21
Brett
ah It's like, wow, this is the type of stuff that we can do.
00:30:22
Josh
Yeah, tremendous photos.
00:30:24
Alexis
Great pictures, you know, if you're like, I don't know if this is what cat facing looks like here.
00:30:25
Brett
Yes.
00:30:26
atack2010
Yeah.
00:30:28
Brett
Yeah, what the difference between curling and what and curling and ah and wilting and yeah, exactly, exactly.
00:30:29
Alexis
Here's a great picture.
00:30:31
atack2010
If you say him, well, yeah.
00:30:34
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:30:35
Brett
Those types of things.
00:30:35
atack2010
Yeah.
00:30:36
Brett
It's a really cool one. So ID 172 is what that one is. And they have a whole list of other scouting guides for cucurbits and sweet corn and cole crops and brambles and all of the other fun stuff.
00:30:40
Alexis
Yeah.
00:30:45
Alexis
Sweet potatoes.
00:30:47
atack2010
It's a good one.
00:30:48
Brett
So ah yeah, just shout out to the IPM team, the integrated pest management team at UK for putting those out.
00:30:55
atack2010
Yeah, I love the pictures.
00:30:55
Alexis
Yeah.
00:30:56
atack2010
that's That's a really good one.
00:30:58
Alexis
That's it.
00:30:58
atack2010
We were talking about flesh disorders and keeping with Josh's theme.
00:30:58
Alexis
Yeah.
00:31:01
Josh
Mm-hmm.
00:31:03
atack2010
Sun scald, which is kind of sometimes it can be easy to confuse that with things like blossom end rot, stink bug damage, ah things like that.
00:31:10
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:31:13
atack2010
But usually with sun scald, which would get a lot of calls in July, is just simply if you have a thin canopy, if you've grown a certain variety of tomato that doesn't have good leaf cover, ah Too much sun's getting to the tomato.
00:31:25
Alexis
If you over-suckered.
00:31:27
atack2010
If you over suckered, did not leave enough canopy, yeah, that's a good one, Alexis.
00:31:27
Josh
Mm-hmm.
00:31:30
Alexis
So you should ah you should stop suckering what usually we we say for most varieties like July 1st. So if you're still doing that, stop.
00:31:36
atack2010
Yeah.
00:31:38
Brett
And you're saying suck, suckering.
00:31:38
atack2010
Yeah.
00:31:40
Brett
So I was assuming that you meant that like at the doctor's office, they told me that those are just for kids. You can't have them anymore.
00:31:46
atack2010
No more suckered, Brett.
00:31:46
Brett
um
00:31:47
Josh
or like waiting, you know, waiting and hiding and then the tomato comes around the corner and you bust it in the the tummy.
00:31:47
atack2010
No more suckered.
00:31:52
Brett
Yeah. Boom.
00:31:53
Alexis
Suckered.
00:31:53
atack2010
and
00:31:54
Brett
Keep shot.
00:31:54
Alexis
ah
00:31:54
atack2010
Here you go, sucker.
00:31:54
Brett
What, but what is, what is suckering or like, if, if you were going to orient someone to go and figure out more, is there something in ID one 28 or something like that?
00:32:03
Alexis
Yeah, there are, I would say that me saying it over a podcast is not going to be as clear as a graphic will be.
00:32:03
Brett
What is it we'll be talking about?
00:32:10
Alexis
ah But it's basically these extra shoots that the tomato sends out that are unnecessary and you want it to focus on fruit production. And so you will us just, you know, pinch those out or cut those out depending on what size they are. uh, early in the season. So it, you know, you go, Hey, I want fruit, get it together.
00:32:25
atack2010
Yeah.
00:32:27
Alexis
I don't want leaves. I want fruit. And then by July, we start leaving those on just because, mostly because of the sun scald and because we've kind of, we, we've pushed it for fruit and now we need those leaves to start coming back.
00:32:35
atack2010
Yeah.
00:32:40
Alexis
So we get fruit throughout the rest of the summer.
00:32:43
Josh
Yeah.
00:32:43
atack2010
Yeah. And suckering is a, it's a good, it's an awesome, not only for sunscald, you know, that's a kind of ah an environmental consideration.
00:32:44
Brett
Yeah.
00:32:49
Brett
Yeah.
00:32:51
atack2010
It's a, I love to sucker in my home garden. I've realized in a big commercial operation, you would have a hard time suckering, but I remove the bottom leaves from most of my plants, the very most bottom leaves, because they're almost like, I've heard it been described as they're going to be shaded.
00:33:02
Brett
yeah
00:33:05
atack2010
So they're like unproductive workers that are being pruned. That was kind of harsh, but they're unproductive leaves.
00:33:09
Brett
yeah who are also hanging out really close to the tuberculosis ward that is the soil surface.
00:33:14
atack2010
i That's it. Good analogy. Let's bring it on home.
00:33:18
Alexis
Tuberculosis ward, okay.
00:33:20
Brett
Yeah, I don't know.
00:33:20
atack2010
way He went there.
00:33:20
Brett
I wanted it to feel dire.
00:33:21
atack2010
That's it. It's an infirmary. It's an infirmary. But I love the suckering just ah to thin the lower to get as much foliage off the soil as possible.
00:33:28
Brett
Yeah.
00:33:30
atack2010
To thin the plant, I don't know, sucker two or three nodes up and then just stop whenever that happens.
Tomato Varieties for Different Needs
00:33:35
atack2010
ah Not to get into the upper canopy, but it's going to be shaded, non-productive, and the energy of the plant's going to go there where we don't want it. But now, late in the season, there's two kinds of tomatoes, ones that have disease, and one's going to get disease. I'm looking at you, early blot.
00:33:47
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:33:48
Brett
ah for
00:33:49
atack2010
But that's, what you know, a common phone call. But it all starts with a lot of those low-hanging leaves with soil-borne pathogens that get rain splash on them and then ladder up.
00:33:52
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:33:59
atack2010
ah But yeah, I'm glad you mentioned suckering. It is an important, you know, for many standpoints in the home garden, specifically for disease control and for things like sun scald.
00:34:05
Alexis
Here.
00:34:09
atack2010
Yeah, it's a good one.
00:34:09
Josh
Well, and isn't it true that it's only indeterminate that you're suckering, which maybe we should talk about that.
00:34:12
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:34:13
atack2010
Yes, that's a good Greg.
00:34:13
Brett
Ha ha ha.
00:34:14
atack2010
Yeah, Josh, that's right. Determinate varieties or patio style. Yeah, we don't sucker those. Yeah, you wouldn't want to do that.
00:34:21
Brett
ah A lot of hybrid tomatoes are determinate, which means kind of they grow to a determined height.
00:34:28
Josh
Hmm.
00:34:28
Brett
So they're they're a bush style. Sometimes you hear those called a lot.
00:34:31
Alexis
Mmhmm.
00:34:31
Brett
This isn't universally true, but a lot of the heirlooms and open pollinated tend to be indeterminate, which means that in theory, given the right conditions, they could grow to an indeterminate length.
00:34:37
atack2010
Yeah.
00:34:40
Alexis
Mmhmm.
00:34:41
Brett
You know, they could grow.
00:34:42
atack2010
They just keep going.
00:34:42
Brett
to That's how I remember it, at least.
00:34:44
Josh
it just do it yeah yeah
00:34:45
Brett
And and so they're they're vining.
00:34:47
Alexis
Mmhmm.
00:34:47
Brett
And so like the ones that have are the bush style, They still need to be trellised to some extent, but they have at least some structure.
00:34:54
atack2010
yeah um Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
00:34:56
Brett
The indeterminate are literal vines. And if you do nothing, they will grow out and sprawl all over the place and be in contact with the soil. It'll be a big mess.
00:35:05
Josh
You
00:35:06
Brett
um And so that you'll see them trellised up.
00:35:08
Josh
can just do it.
00:35:09
Alexis
It can also tell you something, and it's there's always you know plants that break the rules, but it can also tell you something about the way the fruit sets.
00:35:12
Josh
Yeah, yeah.
00:35:18
Alexis
And so people who like to can, right?
00:35:20
Brett
and
Favorite Tomato Dishes and Seasonal Cooking
00:35:21
Alexis
They want um a lot of product all at one time. and then they're kind of done with it right for the most part that would be a determinate tomato because it's it kind of knows how big it's going to get and then it will set majority of its fruit kind of all within the same window of time versus indeterminate because it doesn't know when it's going to quit it's going to keep going until something makes it uh it's yeah it's gonna bring in a ah slower amount of tomatoes over over a period of time so
00:35:38
atack2010
Yeah.
00:35:45
Brett
Slow and steady trickle.
00:35:47
atack2010
Yeah.
00:35:51
atack2010
I know the tomato canneries love the yeah the ones that just all come off at one time, then they just mow everything down now.
00:35:56
Alexis
Yeah, exactly, exactly. So just just something to think about um that way if you're like, I had so many tomatoes and then I got none and it's a Bush tomato, that could be why.
00:36:06
atack2010
Yeah, yeah, a lot of people will see that.
00:36:07
Brett
Yeah, yeah if you're looking if you're looking to have a BLT a couple of times a week, you might want to get an indeterminate tomato where it's kind of trickling out gradually over time. If you're looking to, you know, just, yeah, five gallons of salsa in one week, just go.
00:36:16
Alexis
Yeah.
00:36:17
Josh
go hard on salsa like all at once
00:36:19
Alexis
Yeah.
00:36:24
Brett
I'm talking about eating, not making or making and eating.
00:36:25
Alexis
Oh, well, same.
00:36:27
Brett
Uh, but, uh, yeah, the the determinants.
00:36:27
Alexis
Yep.
00:36:31
Brett
Yeah. Do you all have, do you all have a favorite, uh, tomato peak season tomato product dish?
00:36:31
atack2010
Seems like a.
00:36:39
Alexis
Oh, products.
00:36:39
atack2010
like a ah dish.
00:36:42
Alexis
I just want to slice it all up and put it on a plate and it's got to be cold.
00:36:43
Josh
Go hard on salsa, like all at once.
00:36:45
Brett
Hmm.
00:36:45
Alexis
It's got to be a cold tomato. And I know you're not supposed to put your tomatoes in the fridge, but I want it because it's high outside. So a cold tomato with a lot of salt and a little bit of cayenne pepper. Chef's kiss.
00:36:57
atack2010
I would do tomato sandwiches, just some mayo, good mayo, good mayo, insert your brand here and just a big so ox heart tomato, slice thick, put it on bread with some mayo, I'm done.
00:37:11
atack2010
I also do love a tomato pie too. I usually make those because at that point in July, this point that we're in, you have so many tomatoes because you're an awesome gardener.
00:37:18
Alexis
sure
00:37:19
atack2010
um You know, you're trying to figure out inventive ways to use up all of your tomatoes.
00:37:23
Alexis
I've only made one once and it was...
00:37:25
atack2010
I like tomato pie.
00:37:27
Alexis
I don't think I let them dry out enough, so it was a little too soggy. The texture was a little weird, but um the flavor was good.
00:37:35
atack2010
Yeah. Yeah. That's it. So the ingredient list is rather will weird if you've never made a tomato pie, but I do enjoy eating those, especially about people that are better at making them than I am.
00:37:42
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:37:45
atack2010
So yeah. Tomato pie. Yeah. How about you guys?
00:37:48
Alexis
my
00:37:49
atack2010
Josh Brett.
00:37:51
Josh
ah Sorry, was the question more like what do we like to eat with tomatoes or what tomatoes do we like to make things out of?
00:37:57
atack2010
Yes.
00:37:58
Brett
No, no, no, what's what's the well, I was asking more about the dish rather than the
00:38:00
Alexis
so
00:38:02
Brett
rather than the varietal or application.
00:38:02
Josh
I see, I see. Well, bret you should go first, Brett, because I need to remember how this thing is spelled.
00:38:08
atack2010
Brett's got something in mind. i can I can see him cooking over there.
00:38:13
Brett
Watch me cook.
00:38:14
atack2010
butroom Watch him cook. Watch him cook.
00:38:16
Brett
I don't know. I was trying to think and maybe I was looking to you all for inspiration.
00:38:18
Alexis
Some fresh Pico.
00:38:18
atack2010
Yeah.
00:38:20
Alexis
Oh, some fresh Pico is good.
00:38:21
Josh
Ah.
00:38:21
atack2010
Yeah.
00:38:21
Brett
I do, I do love salsa.
00:38:23
atack2010
and Yeah.
00:38:23
Brett
I do love, ah you know, we make, we make pizzas pretty often.
00:38:27
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:38:27
Brett
um And some fresh tomato on pizza can be a different kind of mix it up type vibe.
00:38:30
Alexis
Mhmm.
00:38:32
atack2010
Yeah.
00:38:32
Josh
Hmm.
00:38:32
Brett
A light, a light tomato sauce.
00:38:34
Alexis
Mhmm.
00:38:36
Brett
um like or Sorry, not light, lightly cooked tomato sauce can be really nice.
00:38:38
Alexis
Mhmm.
00:38:40
atack2010
ah I guess we make it something like that.
00:38:40
Brett
You got to get some of that liquid out.
00:38:42
atack2010
we I call it just garden reduction. It's squash and everything that's in the garden with the tomato base.
00:38:45
Alexis
Mhmm.
00:38:46
atack2010
Put it in a skillet and just cook it down and into a sauce and yet it just reduce over low heat and then just put that over pasta.
00:38:48
Alexis
Mhmm. Mhmm.
00:38:54
atack2010
No matter what I throw in there, ah zucchini, summer squash, tomatoes, whatever, onions that I kind of caramelized beforehand, and then just put it over and it's really good.
00:39:02
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:39:03
atack2010
Like fresh basil, chop that up.
00:39:05
Brett
I do love like a bruschetta, a little on a toasted baguette.
00:39:05
Alexis
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:39:08
atack2010
Oh, yeah. Yeah. o I don't think so.
00:39:11
Alexis
Okay.
00:39:12
Brett
You'll ever do stuffed tomatoes, like baked stuffed tomatoes?
00:39:16
Alexis
i don't I've never done them baked, but I've had like ah like a tuna salad or a chicken salad like in in a tomato.
Tomato Preparation Methods and Recipes
00:39:23
Alexis
And yeah, no.
00:39:23
Brett
Oh yeah, this is different. That sounds really good, but this is different from that. This is like, you like put, uh, like kind of hollow out the middle and you put in like some cheese, some garlic.
00:39:27
Alexis
Yeah, no.
00:39:30
Alexis
Uh-huh, take the core out. Oh, OK.
00:39:35
Brett
Um, you could do if you wanted meat or something.
00:39:36
Josh
So you take the tomato out and put cheese in it.
00:39:39
Alexis
Oh, I do.
00:39:39
Brett
Hmm.
00:39:42
Brett
Yeah, but i mean you can you can vary how much you core it out.
00:39:43
Alexis
um Yeah.
00:39:45
Brett
You know, it could just throw the tomato away and put a lump of cheese on a plate and make it.
00:39:46
Josh
I want to put cheese in some sour cream.
00:39:51
Alexis
and
00:39:52
Brett
yeah Oh yeah.
00:39:54
Alexis
I do a faster, um, faster version of tomato pie, but it's basically like open face tomato, uh, grilled cheese.
00:39:54
atack2010
So good.
00:40:01
Alexis
And so like a good piece of bread, you know, with, you know, what a good secret is a little bit of time, like, like a powdered time and put that on your cheese.
00:40:01
atack2010
Oh, yeah.
00:40:09
atack2010
Jazz it up very good.
00:40:10
Alexis
It's it.
00:40:10
Brett
Like how long?
00:40:12
Alexis
Huh? I just like want the cheese to bubble, right?
00:40:14
Brett
so ah little No, you said like a little bit of time little time.
00:40:15
Alexis
So like you put it under the broiler.
00:40:17
Brett
I just didn't know how much time to give it.
00:40:17
Alexis
Oh, oh, oh, oh, I'm sorry.
00:40:19
Josh
Nice.
00:40:20
Alexis
I missed it.
00:40:20
Josh
T-H-Y
00:40:20
Alexis
Okay.
00:40:21
atack2010
Remember, it seems like growing up, we canned more, we canned as much tomatoes, as everything fancy, all the Italian seasonings in there, but we, we canned as much tomatoes as anything.
00:40:21
Alexis
You're right.
00:40:23
Brett
Time. Man, look at you, fancy.
00:40:28
Brett
Yeah.
00:40:31
atack2010
And it was amazing. I guess one thing that just screamed summer and growing up to me is canned tomato juice with the seeds in his mom would can, uh, to make tomato juice that we used in everything in the wintertime, but she would do two or 300 quarts of.
00:40:37
Alexis
Hmm.
00:40:38
Josh
Mmm.
00:40:38
Brett
Oh, shoot.
00:40:46
atack2010
ah whole tomatoes, which were pretty versatile. um We would eat those with sugar, ah which was just with pasta and sugar, and it was an amazing dish. um and and She added a few other things, some butter, I think, but what's not to love about sugar and butter? But I remember just the tomato juice. She would make it, for me, she would make it with seeds in. My brother, Picky, a younger brother, without seeds, but we just, we drank a lot of tomato juice in the winter. And because we had so many tomatoes when we canned tons of of tomatoes, put them up whole and, you know, just in juice.
00:41:17
Brett
Hmm.
00:41:19
atack2010
But that just screamed summer to me when we would start canning the tomatoes, did a lot of that and just use it in everything, basically chili, um lots of soups and chilies and things like that, because it was such a versatile product that we can make a lot of for very cheap.
00:41:20
Brett
Hmm.
00:41:34
atack2010
So it just summertime.
00:41:34
Josh
Nice.
00:41:35
Alexis
What was your thing, Josh?
00:41:36
Josh
I found it. ah it's So it's got a weird name. It's Turkish. It's called Menemen. It's like men-ee-men, all one word, like M-E-N-E-M-E-N.
00:41:44
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:41:46
Josh
but it's basically like a kind of like a dutch oven or like a skillet dish that's almost entirely like a tomato a thick tomato sauce with some like peppers and onions in it this is a like a breakfast brunch thing and then they throw you know a couple of eggs in it sometimes it can include a sausage or whatever yeah it's ah like i got into it like a couple of years ago when i went to my sister lived in turkey for a while i was like you want this and like pointed it out on a menu at this like turkish place we were at and
00:41:55
Alexis
Mm-hmm. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:42:05
Brett
Thank you.
00:42:15
Alexis
Hmm.
00:42:15
Josh
since then it's just like when I think of like tomato-y kind of like goodness it's that and it's pretty chill too it's very like yeah and that you know you can get like bread or you know something like some kind of dipping thing
00:42:21
Alexis
Yeah, because it's like a real thick like.
00:42:26
Alexis
Yeah, you dip it and it's like runny eggs or something like that, like they crack the eggs in the sauce. Is that how it's?
00:42:31
Josh
yeah that's like the last thing they do once it's all like going and done and there's a bunch of spices in it too but it's very like chill for preparation too it's like a one dish job you know and i always like those kind of deals where it's just right yeah you're just like throwing stuff in and then last minute throw an egg or whatever in it and be like boom ready to go
00:42:32
Alexis
Yeah. Mm hmm.
00:42:43
Alexis
One pot wonder.
00:42:43
atack2010
Oh yeah, I like ratatouille. Ratatouille is like that and I love a good ratatouille.
00:42:47
Alexis
Mm hmm.
00:42:50
atack2010
Yeah, some protein.
00:42:51
Alexis
Like, oh, yeah, protein. Yeah.
00:42:52
atack2010
Yeah, bam.
00:42:54
Alexis
Mm hmm. Yeah, that's that's good.
00:42:57
Brett
You're, you're spelling, you're spelling of that made me think of 50 cent.
00:42:58
atack2010
Tomatoes are pretty versatile.
00:42:58
Alexis
Mm hmm. M&M.
00:43:03
Josh
Min and Min.
00:43:03
Brett
Manny man, Manny man, man, you know, I remember remember wish that.
00:43:04
Josh
Oh. By Min and...
00:43:06
Alexis
Oh, I thought of the Dr. Pepper, like, commercial from forever ago, phenomena.
00:43:10
Brett
Oh,
00:43:13
atack2010
phenomena.
00:43:13
Brett
oh
00:43:13
Josh
and um Oh, nice.
00:43:13
Alexis
you know
00:43:14
atack2010
The Muppets, thank you for putting that in my head.
00:43:15
Brett
do you make, do you make minimum at your home, Josh?
00:43:17
atack2010
That's much appreciated. and
00:43:21
Josh
it's but Like I have made it since like I had family up or whatever I usually need like some kind of an excuse but I Should like I mean we're being reminded of it.
00:43:24
Brett
Hmm.
00:43:29
Josh
You know, I'm like, yeah, let's make that again soon Summer is here
00:43:31
Alexis
Yeah.
00:43:31
Brett
that time that time
00:43:34
Alexis
That's one of my goals is to... to ah can and some tomatoes this year. So that when I make, I usually make my grandma's ah pasta sauce for Christmas and I would love to do it with my ah canned tomatoes, but um you know, we'll, we'll get there eventually, but well, anything else?
00:43:43
atack2010
Oh. Oh, nice.
00:43:53
Josh
Yeah, it's like one of those.
00:43:53
atack2010
You can do it.
00:43:54
Alexis
Go ahead.
00:43:55
Josh
Something that another kind of tomato memory I have is one summer I was working on this farm and like Oldham County and the people who are working like I was working with the cattle but there was a handful of people that were all working the market garden and they grew a ton of tomatoes right and a lot of stuff.
00:43:56
Brett
It's that time. It's that time.
00:44:10
Josh
ah was sort of seconds essentially that they couldn't sell at market and so they just they spent like a weekend just canning and I remember it was crazy right like it was like a three-person household and they had one pantry that was just full of like giant wide-mouth court jaws jars full of to canned tomatoes and tomato sauce and then like just that winter was like I mean twice a week like what can we make with this week's giant can of tomatoes and
00:44:30
atack2010
Mm hmm.
00:44:37
Alexis
a
00:44:37
atack2010
Yeah, I remember, yeah, tomato paste, tomato sauce, whole tomato.
00:44:42
atack2010
It's like every other thing was yeah, tomatoes in it. Absolutely.
00:44:45
Alexis
But you have to it's like remembering when, you know, I mean, ah it this is very obvious, but it it When I think about like canned tomatoes specifically for some reason, I think about like the fact that there was a time when people couldn't get vitamins that they needed in the winter. And tomatoes to me right is just is like that lycopene and there's all these great vitamins in it.
00:45:01
Josh
Yeah, right.
00:45:02
atack2010
Yeah.
00:45:06
Alexis
So in the winter, you had to have those. And you know they did beans, people did everything, but that for some reason tomatoes is really like clicks in my brain when I think about how important that was to making it through the winter a healthy human.
00:45:18
atack2010
yeah
00:45:18
Josh
yeah not getting scurvy
00:45:20
Alexis
Yeah, not getting scurvy.
00:45:21
atack2010
yeah
00:45:22
Alexis
Yeah, exactly.
00:45:22
atack2010
I could see where it's such a, I mean, tomatoes in the home garden, you know, particularly, and they are so productive. I know we've talked about a lot of problems today, but it really is, um you know, if you have a decent growing year and a decent, decent patch of earth, you're, they're, they're a highly productive crop ah that you can get a lot of fruit for, ah you know, a modest amount of effort.
00:45:40
Josh
Yeah, not getting scurvy.
00:45:44
atack2010
So really.
00:45:46
Brett
What?
00:45:46
Josh
we have made this plant so helpless and still care for it.
00:45:49
atack2010
Yes. Yes. And still we, we love it. I wonder what the first person that like, I always wonder like the first person they ever ate a watermelon or a tomato, like here's this deadly looking bright red, which in nature is a, you know, danger color. Just to eat that, be like, I would like to know that their story, what motivated you to eat this red soft squishy thing.
00:46:07
Alexis
Do you think they like gave it to like their least favorite goat first?
00:46:11
atack2010
Maybe, maybe,
00:46:12
Josh
Yeah, like the animals ate it.
00:46:12
Alexis
Their least favorite?
00:46:13
Josh
They didn't die. And then they're like, I want that.
00:46:14
atack2010
maybe. Yeah.
00:46:16
Josh
Don't feed that to the animal.
00:46:16
atack2010
They're like, and the animals are scarfing it down.
00:46:17
Alexis
I try.
00:46:17
Brett
Yeah.
00:46:19
atack2010
They're like, wait, wait, uh, there may be something to this.
00:46:19
Brett
yeah
00:46:22
atack2010
So I wonder what was going through their mind when they ate this squishy, you know, in this, uh, journey.
00:46:27
Alexis
Just go for it, man. Just go for it.
00:46:28
atack2010
Yeah. It's fine.
00:46:29
Brett
one one one thing One thing I would say to somebody who's maybe growing tomatoes for the first time or has been growing tomatoes for a while and has struggled with it
00:46:29
atack2010
Or it's, you're right.
00:46:30
Alexis
You won't do it.
00:46:31
atack2010
It's probably a dare. It's probably a dare to caveman. We're like, Hey, dare you to eat that. Okay. Yeah. He's like, man, this is not bad.
00:46:45
Brett
if If you went with the heirloom varieties because you thought it was really cool, which it is, really flavorful, which they are, but you've struggled, there is no shame in going maybe next year or, you know, I guess we're a little late this year, but to try it again.
00:46:54
Alexis
Yeah, no shade.
00:46:57
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:47:02
Brett
to Try something that's a hybrid that has some disease resistance bread into it again it is not.
00:47:06
atack2010
Yeah.
00:47:08
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:47:09
Josh
I love you.
00:47:10
Brett
Generic engineering is a whole other topic and and we can talk about that at another time maybe but if this isn't even that this is just breeding of a selective breeding of a thing like we've done with dogs and a number of other.
00:47:11
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:47:20
Brett
ah pretty much everything that we have that we cultivate. And so if you don't don't rather than give up on tomatoes and say you can't grow them or just have another frustrating year where the whole plant looks like it went up in flames ah with blight, try something that has a little bit of disease resistance built
00:47:34
Alexis
Mmhmm.
Tips for Growing Better Tomatoes
00:47:36
Brett
into it.
00:47:36
Alexis
Mmhmm.
00:47:36
Brett
because and Even those like really mainstay you know typical varieties, when grown in the backyard, picked
00:47:44
Alexis
Mmhmm.
00:47:45
Brett
Vine ripened they're still incredibly delicious and so that would just be something i think you know if you have trouble with them speaking from experience.
00:47:48
Alexis
Mmhmm.
00:47:48
atack2010
Oh yeah, for sure.
00:47:49
Josh
Yeah.
00:47:54
Josh
And if you're going for like a sauce, one of the best sauces I ever had that was like homemade was from essentially a hybrid of like San Marzano and Roma. And it was a very sturdy like potent plant.
00:48:05
Alexis
Mm hmm.
00:48:07
Josh
And it's one of those ones where I don't, you know, usually people want to brag about their heirlooms and stuff like that. And it's like San Marzano is like my G, even though it's a commercial hybrid.
00:48:18
Alexis
Yeah, yeah, well.
00:48:19
atack2010
Oh yeah.
00:48:19
Brett
patrons, patrons saying in my belly.
00:48:21
Alexis
Yeah. ah Well, and that's ah that's another point of like ah know what you want to do with them. So if you're a fresh tomato eater or you know you maybe you just want to can them whole for you know tossing in a soup or something, that's a different than if you're wanting to make sauce. like There is a reason there there are sauce tomatoes right because they they don't have
00:48:40
atack2010
and
00:48:40
Josh
Mmhmm.
00:48:41
Alexis
The texture of them is different and also the some of those flavor complexities come out more when you're you're cooking them So it might not be the best ah Fresh tomato it's still gonna be good. You're still gonna want to eat it, but it might not be the best for on your sandwich But it will be great in a sauce So, you know kind of think about what you might want to do and maybe you know, you can have two plans. Thank you One or two. It's okay
00:49:05
Brett
We didn't shout them out today, but shout out to the cherry tomatoes. ah Love eating them, love eating them, hate picking them, because there's one bajillion of them, ah AKA Tommy Toes, for those who know, they know.
00:49:09
Alexis
Sun gold.
00:49:09
atack2010
the workhorse of the tomato world.
00:49:11
Alexis
Love them.
00:49:13
Josh
I know.
00:49:13
Alexis
Mm hmm. sir Yeah.
00:49:20
atack2010
Oh, yeah.
00:49:21
Brett
um But yet, i would i grew up I grew up calling them cherry tomatoes or grape tomatoes or whatever, but they're just, ah man, they're so good.
00:49:22
atack2010
If there's one, there's a thousand.
00:49:24
Alexis
yeah
00:49:31
Alexis
Sun gold tomatoes are so tasty. and In fact, if you have a kid that doesn't like, that's always what we tell people who like are doing gardens for like school gardens or something like that. We're always like put sun gold tomatoes in. They will want to eat them. They will pick them, they will eat them and they will start liking tomatoes. So that's like a really easy way to get your kid to start wanting to eat tomatoes. so gate gate we Don't like that.
00:49:56
Brett
Gateway Tomito.
00:49:58
atack2010
That's it.
00:50:01
Josh
yeah No.
00:50:03
Alexis
so Don't like that. um but Awesome.
00:50:05
Brett
so
00:50:08
Alexis
Well, ah I don't know.
00:50:09
Brett
If you eat enough sun gold, you'll warm up to it, maybe.
00:50:12
atack2010
Eventually.
00:50:15
Alexis
Tommy Toes just sounds a little. who little
00:50:18
atack2010
Grew up calling them that. That's what they were. That's what they were.
00:50:22
Alexis
Oh man. All right. Cool. Any lasting words of wisdom for the July tomato?
00:50:29
atack2010
Enjoy.
00:50:29
Alexis
No. Enjoy them. Yeah. Enjoy them while they last.
00:50:31
atack2010
Enjoy them.
00:50:32
Alexis
They're gone too quickly. They're, they're like, isn't that what people say about kids?
00:50:34
atack2010
It's the taste of summer, people.
00:50:36
Alexis
I wouldn't know, but I'm like, the tomatoes are gone too fast, but Oh yeah.
00:50:40
Brett
Yeah, it's a brief window. That's what makes it so beautiful, though, right? It's a very romantic notion that this is it's so ephemeral, just like our youth.
00:50:44
Josh
and
00:50:48
Alexis
Yeah.
00:50:48
Josh
Unless you can them and then that's a mortality.
00:50:49
Alexis
All right.
00:50:51
Brett
Yeah, exactly.
00:50:52
Josh
but
00:50:52
Alexis
Immortality.
00:50:53
atack2010
It's a crowd chamber.
00:50:53
Brett
Prometheus the prometheus has pulled the putt power of fire down from the gods and canned these tomatoes.
00:50:57
Alexis
It's all coming together now.
00:50:57
Josh
it yeah
00:51:01
Brett
And for that, we chained them to a rock forever more to be attacked by the Black Vultures from last episode.
00:51:05
Alexis
Awesome. Yeah, if you haven't listened to it, go check it out.
00:51:09
Brett
Thank you.
00:51:10
Alexis
There was a lot of death at the beginning, but I swear it'll be good. ah
00:51:13
atack2010
We pulled it out at an epic level.
00:51:14
Brett
Yeah, like a Greek mythology level of death, so appropriate.
00:51:17
Alexis
Yeah.
00:51:17
Josh
Hahaha.
00:51:17
Alexis
Yeah. It's, it's, it's cool. Most of you probably listened.
00:51:20
Brett
All right, save us, Alexis. Save us from ourselves, from me, mainly.
Audience Engagement: Future Topics
00:51:25
Alexis
All right. Well, if you all have any ideas for future episodes, please feel free to reach out. You can reach us via email and the show notes. you can follow us on instagram at hort culture podcast and you can send us a message on there let us know and you know we do honestly ah look at them and we'll say ah that would be a good episode or o we can bring on a specialist to talk about that or somebody just way cooler than us ah to bring that up and so um Yeah, we're welcome. You're welcome. Please spring bring them more. ah So anyways, we hope that as we grow this podcast, you will grow with us and that you'll join us next time. Have a great one.