Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
From Orchard to Table: The Journey of an Apple
69 Plays10 days ago
In this episode of Hort Culture, we take you on a journey from the orchard to your kitchen table, exploring the fascinating process of apple production. We start at the beginning with the planning phase before the first trees is in the ground and end up with tasty fruit ready for the end consumer.
Center for Crop Diversification: Apples
Center for Crop Diversification Crop Profile: Apples
Recommended
Transcript
Nature's Artistry: Fall Leaves and Weather
00:00:17
Alexis
Hey, guys. How's everybody doing on this beautiful fall day?
00:00:22
Jessica
Good. it It is beautiful outside.
00:00:23
Plant People
Very well, yeah.
00:00:24
Alexis
Yeah.
00:00:27
Alexis
It's been a lovely fall. I don't know if it's because it's been so dry. I mean, that's not the best thing, but yeah.
00:00:30
Plant People
A lot of leaf color. There's there's ah um quite a bit of leaf color.
00:00:32
Jessica
The trees are popping.
00:00:34
Plant People
Yeah, the trees trees are beautiful.
00:00:34
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:00:36
Plant People
And I kind of missed that on the the very beginning of the color change. A lot of brown, a lot of crispy leaves falling.
00:00:42
Alexis
and she
00:00:42
Plant People
And then I got into some areas with more trees. And then on I was like, hey, the color actually is really good right now.
Nostalgia in Nature
00:00:49
Plant People
so
00:00:49
Brett
if If by the time you're listening to this, you're in the gray doldrums of winter, know that we are too, but speaking to you from some undetermined past, we were feeling joy.
00:00:50
Alexis
i've
00:00:53
Plant People
Hmm good point Brad At the end of October and a beautiful fall, yeah Yeah, the Sun hits him just right they seem to glow Yeah
00:01:03
Brett
Remember that. It's like a time capsule.
00:01:05
Alexis
yes it's like an um I saw the most beautiful orange maple this morning and it was like neon orange.
00:01:06
Jessica
Mm-hmm.
00:01:12
Alexis
It was so bright and beautiful.
00:01:13
Jessica
Oh yeah. They do.
00:01:16
Alexis
Yeah, it was, it was pretty impressive. My, the maple I have in my front yard, it's, it's usually like beautiful red and it's just now starting to change. I'm like, what are y'all doing? Y'all behind? What are we doing?
00:01:27
Brett
A lot of the red maples in our, in our neighborhood are, are lagging behind the sugars and others.
00:01:31
Plant People
Mm.
00:01:32
Brett
So even my, even my bonsai, the reds haven't changed yet and the sugars have.
00:01:32
Plant People
Yeah, the reds are a little behind this year.
00:01:33
Jessica
Yeah.
00:01:34
Plant People
Sugars are peak. They were peaked two or three days ago in our neighborhood.
00:01:39
Alexis
All right.
00:01:39
Plant People
Mm.
Butter Slicing: A Comedic Exploration
00:01:41
Brett
So.
00:01:41
Plant People
Interesting.
00:01:42
Alexis
Look at us, there's there's some some math, math in there, there's some science, science in there.
00:01:46
Jessica
Mm hmm.
00:01:47
Alexis
Okay, are you guys ready for your question of the day?
00:01:49
Plant People
Oh, yes.
00:01:50
Jessica
Sure.
00:01:51
Alexis
Okay, all right, it's about butter, so.
00:01:51
Brett
Yes. Hmm.
00:01:54
Plant People
OK.
00:01:54
Alexis
Okay, so this is more of a like, I feel like I get to know you more through this question, all right?
00:01:58
Jessica
OK.
00:01:58
Plant People
Mm.
00:01:59
Alexis
So when you open up a new stick of butter and you go to get some for whatever whatever you want, you gotta get some.
00:02:06
Plant People
wrong
00:02:07
Alexis
How do you slice it? How do you, how do you remove the amount of butter you need from, you know, assuming it's not for like a large amount, like, you know, say you're putting it on toast, you're going to throw it in the pan or, or whatever, like.
00:02:18
Plant People
Like a pat, like like an unmeasured amount.
00:02:22
Alexis
Yeah. Like you're you like, get like a vibes, like a vibes amount.
00:02:23
Plant People
Gotcha. Yeah.
00:02:25
Alexis
How do you, how do you remove the butter from the thing?
00:02:28
Plant People
Huh.
00:02:30
Alexis
I mean, like where on the stick, I guess I should ask.
00:02:32
Brett
This was like a trick question or something.
00:02:33
Plant People
I know.
00:02:34
Alexis
No.
00:02:34
Plant People
it's she's She's looking for something specific.
00:02:34
Alexis
Or are you not ah are you not a butter stick person and you're like a butter tub person?
00:02:35
Jessica
oh
00:02:39
Plant People
I'm both depending on my mood.
00:02:39
Alexis
That's also...
00:02:40
Jessica
i I'm a butter stick person. Lots of butter because they need it for baking.
00:02:43
Brett
yeah
00:02:44
Plant People
Bakers are stick people, I believe. Yeah.
00:02:46
Alexis
and Not from your cat, right?
00:02:46
Jessica
ah But sometimes, and Alexis kind of already knows this, but sometimes I have to be careful if I leave sticks of butter out on my counter because I'll come back and there'll be teeth marks in them because my oldest son
00:02:47
Plant People
yeah
00:02:59
Jessica
Right. by i My oldest son, who also enjoys baking, will see butter on the counter and will very excitedly be like, butter!
00:03:00
Plant People
Yeah. Yeah.
00:03:00
Alexis
No, no.
00:03:09
Jessica
And try to take a bite out of it.
00:03:10
Plant People
I get that way too.
00:03:11
Alexis
Bite it.
00:03:12
Plant People
So I'm with him.
00:03:13
Jessica
So,
00:03:13
Plant People
I'm
Butter Preferences and Practices
00:03:14
Plant People
with him.
00:03:14
Alexis
There's like little teeth marks in it. so We know that Bo removed his butter via teeth. ah and just from Does he like corn on the cobbit or is it like from a Popsicle standpoint?
00:03:14
Jessica
and yep.
00:03:20
Jessica
Yes, yes.
00:03:26
Jessica
from a popsicle stick like end.
00:03:26
Alexis
like Okay. Okay.
00:03:28
Jessica
Yeah, that's what he does.
00:03:28
Alexis
All right.
00:03:30
Jessica
But otherwise I just like, it depends, you know, if it's um been on the counter and it's a little soft, right?
00:03:36
Alexis
Okay. Okay.
00:03:38
Jessica
Or if it's not, or like, if you have, if you're willing to sacrifice, Oh, just like at the end and work your way.
00:03:42
Alexis
If it's a little soft, where do you, where do you take it from?
00:03:47
Alexis
Okay. At the, but at the end, like, like, okay.
00:03:49
Jessica
Yeah.
00:03:49
Plant People
I feel like Alexis has an unorthodox method here, like longitudinally or something, something weird.
00:03:50
Alexis
From one end to the other.
00:03:52
Jessica
But you know, like, If you're willing to like sacrifice a stick of butter and you have like a hot piece of toast and you can just take the stick and like, you know, it gets a little crummy on the end, but that could be you're like, you know, yeah, same thing.
00:03:55
Alexis
Okay.
00:04:01
Alexis
okay Yeah, that's good.
00:04:04
Plant People
I do that with pancakes.
00:04:06
Alexis
Yeah. I've done that with pancakes.
00:04:08
Plant People
Pancakes, yeah.
00:04:08
Alexis
Yep. Right. What about you?
00:04:11
Brett
I'll usually like split it the full length and hollow out the middle and take the middle of the core, the butter core.
00:04:16
Alexis
ah
00:04:17
Jessica
You do not.
00:04:18
Plant People
He takes his half out of the middle.
00:04:18
Alexis
The heart of the butter.
00:04:18
Brett
It's like the filet, the filet mignon of the butter.
00:04:18
Jessica
yeah
00:04:21
Brett
Yeah.
00:04:21
Plant People
It's the heart of butter.
00:04:22
Brett
Like the backstrap, the butter backstraps.
00:04:24
Plant People
It's the loin butter loin.
00:04:26
Alexis
it
00:04:26
Brett
And then I just throw out the cut, the, the cask, the shell.
00:04:27
Plant People
That was my nickname. Yeah, the husk.
00:04:29
Jessica
You don't eat that part, do you?
00:04:31
Brett
Yeah, no, I, you guys eat the peel.
00:04:32
Plant People
Butter husk.
00:04:33
Brett
I mean, do you eat the banana peel?
00:04:33
Alexis
Gross.
00:04:35
Plant People
You don't need the butter peel, the oxidized nastiness.
00:04:36
Brett
Yeah, exactly.
00:04:38
Jessica
I think my kids have before.
00:04:42
Brett
No, I mean, I don't know. I go in and i well I'll say there are some in the audience who are saying somebody referred to so butter being soft and they're like, it should always be soft because I keep my butter at room temperature on the counter all the time.
00:04:52
Alexis
Uh-huh. Okay.
00:04:54
Brett
We keep ours in the fridge. Sorry to all of the people who are correct out there.
00:04:57
Plant People
Hmm.
00:04:59
Brett
um I would say I just cut it off from the end, ah probably often at an angle, not straight across.
00:05:07
Alexis
Okay.
00:05:08
Brett
It's not a, it's not a, I don't line it up.
00:05:08
Alexis
Okay. Perfectly vertical.
00:05:10
Brett
i don't up I don't get my speed square out to you know make a...
00:05:17
Alexis
written Okay, yeah, yeah.
00:05:18
Brett
What's the outlier? What's the...
00:05:20
Jessica
Yes, please tell us Alexis, how what do you do with butter?
00:05:20
Alexis
so I think about this, i I made my lunch today and I got out some butter because I was making some eggs. And so and i it reminded me, I think about this every time I get out the butter.
00:05:31
Alexis
ah When I got married, with my husband, and he saw the way I did butter because it's the way I grew up, he thought I was a crazy person. So now I have resorted to what you know is probably the more efficient, smart way to do it.
00:05:44
Alexis
But I always think about it, and and it brings back fond memories of ah toast and and with my grandma and stuff.
00:05:50
Plant People
and butter.
00:05:51
Alexis
But anyways.
00:05:51
Brett
You assimilated.
00:05:52
Alexis
so Yeah.
00:05:53
Plant People
Mmm, the Borg.
00:05:54
Alexis
So we we also kept our butter in the fridge. ah And my mom, I feel like my grandma, i everybody and I know always took the butter from like the top.
00:06:06
Alexis
So like you open up the flap, you know, on the stick of butter, right?
00:06:09
Jessica
Mm hmm.
00:06:09
Brett
Wow, I love that.
00:06:10
Alexis
And they would just scrape it. So it's like kind of like a thin little thing. And that's what you would spread like on your toes. Now when like When you were baking or you know, probably putting it in a pan I'm sure they like sliced off but like that's how I always did it and I remember when I moved in with my husband um He was like I did that and he's like, what are you doing?
00:06:31
Brett
It sounds like it sounds like you're interpreting the stick as though it were a tub.
00:06:35
Alexis
Yeah, kind of yeah, which is weird because I never grew up with how butter I don't I never had that um but Well, you're just sort of like
00:06:36
Jessica
Yeah.
00:06:36
Plant People
I think so. How do you hold it still? I mean, how do you hold it still when you're cutting through the top? It looks like that would be precarious to put your finger on the end.
00:06:47
Jessica
you're scraping it right.
00:06:47
Alexis
You're just, no, you're just sort of like scraping off like a layer from like the top middle.
00:06:50
Brett
You worried about a slide, right? Is that what you're saying?
00:06:52
Plant People
I'm worried about the slide.
00:06:52
Alexis
Yeah.
00:06:52
Brett
and
00:06:53
Plant People
I'm worried about the movement because precision is important when it comes to butter.
00:06:54
Alexis
oh It's not important when you're putting it on toast.
00:06:57
Plant People
I mean, and cheese, by the way. But yeah, that seems like that'd be tough.
00:07:01
Brett
Well, you you put the butter, the stick into your butter vice on your countertop, you know, and you spin the spin it down, it kind of holds it in place, and then you hand, one hand.
00:07:01
Alexis
so You know, you're just, it's a vibe.
00:07:05
Plant People
Yes, the butter gripper.
00:07:10
Plant People
Oh, I like this.
00:07:11
Alexis
Yeah. And then, you know, you let your child just go after it.
00:07:14
Plant People
Perfect, perfect.
00:07:16
Alexis
Um, I don't know.
00:07:16
Jessica
Right.
00:07:16
Plant People
No, I mean.
00:07:18
Alexis
I just made me think about it.
00:07:19
Jessica
He's only getting taller and can reach him better.
00:07:20
Alexis
Is anybody else ever do that? Like, does anybody take it from just kind of like, take your little butter knife and I know like, i I mean, we did that when we baked, but just for, you know, everyday butter usage.
00:07:23
Plant People
No. I mean, in fact, the measurements on there clearly denote that if you're all about precision, that you would go straight down the most efficient way.
00:07:36
Plant People
Yeah.
00:07:37
Brett
So so mine Well, you've got it you've got a you've got a buttering stick and you got a baking stick that that I can get down with Yeah,
00:07:38
Plant People
Yeah. Okay. But then your, then your measurements aren't correct. If you've shaved off the top because then you Oh, Oh, got you.
00:07:43
Alexis
No, you had separate baking sticks. Yeah. You have a buttering stick and a baking stick.
00:07:48
Plant People
Got you.
00:07:48
Alexis
Yeah.
00:07:49
Jessica
Because then like in the summer you have a stick that's like designated for your sweet corn, right?
00:07:49
Plant People
Now it's making more sense.
00:07:49
Alexis
yeah
00:07:50
Plant People
This. Okay.
00:07:54
Brett
oh I Don't know that I don't well, I Don't I don't have one.
00:07:54
Alexis
Yeah. Yeah. See?
00:07:55
Jessica
To butter your sweet corn and salt it.
00:07:57
Plant People
Mm.
00:08:00
Plant People
Brett, you're not living right.
00:08:00
Alexis
Yeah. Cause you put your corn right on the top and then roll it on the butter stick, on the stick of butter.
00:08:01
Plant People
and
00:08:01
Brett
I haven't been designating.
00:08:04
Plant People
You've not been differentiating your corn butter?
00:08:05
Jessica
Yeah.
00:08:06
Brett
No, I to be fair, we don't eat a lot of sweet corn because Andy's not a big fan. ah if If only one of us likes only one of us like something, it's usually not worth it to...
00:08:12
Alexis
What Annie says goes.
00:08:17
Brett
Here's my question.
00:08:18
Alexis
Okay.
00:08:20
Brett
What, what does the end of a buttering stick look like as it gets down closer to the bottom? You know, it's like a bar of soap, you know, where it gets to like a shard and there's some point, are you throwing away some amount of butter?
00:08:27
Alexis
and you
00:08:33
Brett
Are you, what are you doing?
00:08:33
Plant People
Absolutely not.
00:08:33
Alexis
No.
00:08:34
Plant People
and
00:08:34
Brett
What are you, how are you doing dealing with the dregs?
00:08:35
Alexis
No, so like you get, you get down and the, in and it gets, you get a little Valley, right? So you have your, your ends and you get a little Valley and it gets down and then you just start taking it from wherever, or that's when you start using it in your pan and you're taking chunks off to use like in your pan.
00:08:49
Jessica
Mm-hmm.
00:08:51
Plant People
to make your eggs with.
00:08:52
Alexis
So no butter is never wasted.
00:08:52
Brett
I got you.
00:08:52
Jessica
You're not wasting that because butter is expensive.
00:08:53
Brett
so you're maybe having So you maybe have like three different purpose built sticks of butter going at once.
00:08:59
Plant People
ra
00:08:59
Brett
You've got your baking stick, you've got your new scraping, and you've got your you know you're reclaimed your reclaimed butter the from the from the scraping.
00:09:01
Plant People
Complicated.
00:09:05
Plant People
It's kind of like a compost bin.
00:09:09
Plant People
This is like it's the three-bin, the three-butter bin system from Europe, the old country, Brett.
00:09:10
Brett
rit that I like that.
00:09:14
Brett
Three butter.
00:09:15
Alexis
yeah Yeah, I don't know if we read three, but you know, I was a child so
00:09:16
Plant People
but
00:09:20
Brett
i like I really like that.
From Butter to Apples: A Transition
00:09:22
Plant People
Yeah.
00:09:23
Alexis
I just I I did he I did get bullied Well, you think he would if he grew up with tub butter, you know, like they didn't do sticks I don't think to this day they do stick butter.
00:09:23
Brett
And I'm, shame on Tyler for bullying you into assimilating because he should have taken that, he should have taken your tradition, in my opinion.
00:09:37
Alexis
So um You know, I don't know. You think he'd be, that'd be a vibe for him, but it just messed with his weird math brain and he was not about that. So, uh, but anyways, I just, I just was curious what it's like when you ask people like what their favorite fall dessert is or something.
00:09:54
Alexis
I want to know how you use butter.
00:09:55
Brett
Hmm. I see.
00:09:59
Alexis
But anyways, we're only 10 minutes into the podcast and we swear we're talking about something plant related today. And what we are talking about, which you've probably seen, if you have read the title of this episode is Apples.
The World of Apple Orchards
00:10:11
Brett
Apples.
00:10:11
Alexis
So we're talking about apples today.
00:10:13
Plant People
More specifically, not just apples, but the organizations, local organizations, I'm assuming, that help bring apples to us in the form of maybe orchards.
00:10:13
Alexis
Apples. Because
00:10:25
Plant People
Is that the topic for today?
00:10:26
Alexis
Yeah, because we just kind of assumed, you know, when this is airing, you all have probably been to some Apple orchards or at least have feeling it. Maybe you're watching some Hallmark movies where they're, you know, she's coming back from the big city as a big time lawyer and she's coming back and she falls in love with the guy who has the orchard, you know, kind of all that all that jazz. And we wanted to take it back to where it all starts.
00:10:51
Plant People
in the beginning so we're so it is you know and that's something that that's very curious to me and ah and I've been lucky to work in a couple situations where orchards have started but here in Kentucky it is not all that common because they're pretty intensive horticulture operations larger businesses they tend to be orchards are with long-term investment paybacks and implications and all that but I've been pretty lucky in a couple of scenarios where orchards have started, but it's amazing how long they are in the planning process and to get to the point of where they're actually selling anything.
00:11:27
Alexis
Yeah.
00:11:27
Plant People
it's It's oftentimes many years from planning to, you know, getting that first apple or peach or whatever.
00:11:30
Alexis
Yeah.
00:11:31
Jessica
it
00:11:32
Alexis
Yeah.
00:11:35
Jessica
Yeah, it's so it's a long-term, you know, commitment for for um an orchard grower for sure.
00:11:37
Plant People
Yeah.
00:11:42
Brett
Yeah, I think the the the original thing that I was, when we were talking about this topic, I was just thinking it was ahead of my mind, people going out to the apple orchard, they're picking the apple, they have this great experience, this cultivated, authentic farm experience with agritourism and, ah you know, all that
00:11:53
Plant People
Hmm. Yeah.
00:12:00
Brett
cool stuff that is is marketing and it's a good way for farms to make income, et cetera. And I was just thinking, you know but first the tree, but first the sapling, but first the graft.
00:12:10
Plant People
Yeah.
00:12:12
Brett
ah you know We don't typically grow apples from seed, apple trees from seed if we want them to be predictable.
00:12:16
Alexis
It's not recommended, yeah.
00:12:18
Brett
but I was just thinking about the whole the whole process that leads up to that apple being ready. And it could be that it was an action taken by somebody 10, 15, 30, 50 years ago in some cases.
00:12:28
Plant People
Yeah.
00:12:31
Alexis
Mm hmm.
00:12:31
Brett
And just reflecting on that, that ah sometimes it's this long term set of events and and actions and everything else put in place that then yields this delicious fruit out there at the end.
00:12:37
Plant People
yeah
00:12:43
Plant People
Yeah, it takes some time.
00:12:44
Alexis
Yeah.
00:12:45
Plant People
It really does because it seems like there's a lot of, ah especially with People you mentioned, you know, like we all have seems like a set picture in our mind what you know Apple Orchards look like and having this awesome experience of going to an orchard and even that's changing in Kentucky where you know in the past 10, 15 years ago even, it was by and by and large.
00:13:07
Plant People
like Apple specifically is modified central leader system. and It looks like an apple tree that you would expect to see in your mind when you were an elementary school age kid.
00:13:11
Alexis
Mmhmm.
00:13:17
Plant People
and Those apple trees look like apple trees.
00:13:17
Alexis
Mmhmm.
00:13:19
Plant People
now that's not the Trees look a little different now with the you know high density systems, so even that's changing.
00:13:21
Alexis
Mmhmm.
00:13:22
Jessica
Mm hmm.
00:13:27
Plant People
um so yeah Orchards um may look a little bit different, especially those newer orchards that are being put in. here in Kentucky, but to to get to that point is many
Orchard Business Insights
00:13:37
Plant People
years. Yeah, and lots of business planning, I guess, Brett, where they're kind of capital intensive and that usually has, that means that you're working with banks and you're getting your you know enterprise budgets and things like that in place. At least the orchards I've worked with and the ones that have gotten started, they have to really give a lot of thought to all of those things because of the nature of the orchard and its intensity.
00:13:58
Alexis
Yeah. And like for reference of people going like, I don't really know enough about orchards to know what is high a density or regular and what I'm used to.
00:14:06
Plant People
Yeah.
00:14:07
Alexis
So like a medium one, which is what we kind of see, you know, if you've gone apple picking, this is probably what you've experienced in an older orchard. You're looking at about 300 trees for an acre.
00:14:17
Alexis
And for these high density ones that some of our orchards are moving to as they expand or as we have these new orchards, they can get upwards of a thousand trees per acre.
00:14:26
Plant People
um
00:14:26
Alexis
So it's a, it's a big. a big jump um on investments.
00:14:29
Jessica
true as Just like it's the name says, like you said, hi high density, these trees are going to be planted extremely close to each other.
00:14:29
Plant People
yeah
00:14:38
Jessica
It's going to look very different than what we are traditionally.
00:14:41
Plant People
And there's trellises, and irrigation, and there's a lot of differences.
00:14:42
Jessica
Traditionally, yeah, there's trellis systems and that like high tensile that's used to like to help hold hold everything up.
00:14:45
Plant People
yeah
00:14:52
Jessica
so
00:14:54
Alexis
and Just the thought that goes back to it originally, um I think when I've been working on ah intros for these crop profiles and when I was doing the Apple one, ah which you know ah when I say crop profiles, Center for Crop Diversification, if you're interested in new crops, kind of what we do here, ah we have some of these horticulture crops you can you know one or two pagers you can look at and say like, is this something crop I'd be interested in? And that's sort of like the basics of the economics and things to consider. But anyway, so when I was like thinking about this,
00:15:27
Alexis
you know You're thinking about all this upfront investment and you know with apples too, there's so much about cultivar. You have baking apples and fresh eating apples and you know cider apples and you know just ah all these different kinds.
00:15:36
Jessica
cider, you know.
00:15:40
Plant People
Yeah.
00:15:40
Alexis
and To think about, okay, in 10 years when I'm at full production, what is my goal and like hoping for the best? right like What if you want to go into mass wholesale of apples and then you know just as an example, you know maybe you've got a dist distributetortor distributor local to you and you're like, okay, I'm going to plant these apples, but is that distributor going to be around in the five to 10 years it takes for you to be at full production? and Then what if you choose a variety that you know somehow gets a bad disease or people don't like anymore or
00:16:14
Alexis
um And just all of the thought process and that like to me like so much anxiety just thinking about like that you have to
00:16:18
Plant People
Mm hmm.
00:16:22
Plant People
Yeah, well, it's a long term investment, yeah.
00:16:24
Alexis
Yeah, but for something that can be so, you know, we, we all know we like Honeycrisp, right? That's Jessica's favorite, and favorite Apple, but there's um so many others out there and like, are you going to want to do you pick or are you going to stick with the baking apples?
00:16:35
Jessica
Mm hmm.
00:16:39
Alexis
And then what happens in 10 years when you're like, Oh man, I need to go do you pick, but I don't have the apples that are best for that. And so just kind of balancing that before you make a single dime is kind of a wild concept to think about.
Challenges in Orchard Management
00:16:52
Alexis
for, you know, not just a season, you're going to wait.
00:16:55
Plant People
At least in the initial planning, it seems like the the the folks that have done really well, they it almost has always to me involved ah either a formal or informal mentorship. You work with someone that has firsthand knowledge of the orchard business in Kentucky. That may be a university employee, but oftentimes it's another orchardist or you're part of an association um here in the state of, you know, we're talking about Kentucky, but I'm sure it's true for other states too. ah You're part of an association where you can really get nitty gritty and talk details with other growers that that um have firsthand knowledge of you know the varieties you mentioned. And not only that, but you know talk about things like freezer space. and these ah And we're just talking planning phase here. You talk how much labor, how much freezer space, is it a long medium, short term keeper, what's the purpose? And that's not even thinking about marketing, Brett. I know you've done a lot of work on that.
00:17:52
Plant People
You know, and Alexis, you just mentioned at what level are you hitting? Is it direct to consumer, which most orchards here in the state, they they hit different levels of marketing, wholesale all the way down to UPIC and everything in between.
00:18:04
Jessica
Because.
00:18:04
Plant People
But all of those things are just in the planning phase. And at the same time, you're considering those things along with labor along and then site suitability and and capacity.
00:18:15
Plant People
You're considering all of those things because it's so critically important For a long term crop like this um to make you know accurate consideration because lots of money is going to go into setting these orchards up.
00:18:28
Plant People
ah Payback used to be five to eight years or production rather not payback used to be five to eight years with the semi dwarf tree we've got that down to about three years now some in some cases even two years.
00:18:37
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:18:40
Plant People
you're starting to get limited production yeah for high density.
00:18:40
Alexis
The high density.
00:18:43
Plant People
So that has helped some, but all of this business planning has to go on before you stick trees in the ground. Typically, all of these things are going on.
00:18:52
Brett
Yeah, and even even you once you get the trees in the ground, let's not get it twisted. It is very difficult to grow apples in Kentucky.
00:18:58
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:19:00
Jessica
Yes.
00:19:01
Plant People
zones so your Transitional zone, we'll say that for Kentucky, yeah.
00:19:01
Alexis
Yep.
00:19:02
Jessica
Yeah.
00:19:03
Brett
It is we we have this climate that disease and pests just absolutely love.
00:19:10
Alexis
Rampant. Yeah.
00:19:13
Brett
You know, I like it here. I've i've lived here for 30 something that's the between 36 and I think that's right. 36 years. Love it. ah and so does the fire blight and so does the scab and scale and all kinds of fun ah insects.
00:19:27
Alexis
said
00:19:33
Plant People
Insects and disease, yeah.
00:19:34
Brett
and And so I think the one I'm getting at with that is, again, if you're going out or if you're if you you go apple picking this fall, just appreciate all the work that went into making sure that that tree was healthy enough to produce apples, that it's open to you, that you can go out and and and enjoy that.
00:19:45
Alexis
Mm-hm.
00:19:52
Plant People
Yeah.
00:19:53
Brett
i think it's it's On the one hand, when you're presenting it to the customer, you want it to kind of come across as effortless and down on the farm.
00:19:57
Alexis
Mm-hm.
00:20:00
Plant People
Yeah.
00:20:00
Brett
and But apples are far from throw it in the ground and wait 10 years.
00:20:05
Jessica
Great.
00:20:06
Plant People
Oh, yeah.
00:20:06
Alexis
Yeah.
00:20:06
Jessica
Yeah.
00:20:07
Plant People
Yeah.
00:20:08
Jessica
I think that's why you know we don't see so many orchards, right?
00:20:12
Plant People
Yeah,
00:20:13
Jessica
like there's That's why you have like you're at there you know we we're starting to see a few more, but like it's pretty limited with how many actual commercial growers that we have or who are doing this because of all the planning that everyone has already talked about and then like if you are going to incorporate all that agritourism stuff that goes along with it.
00:20:32
Plant People
yeah production and marketing.
00:20:32
Jessica
and insurance, liability, all of that kind of things that are going along to have you out there on their farm and to make it safe.
00:20:34
Plant People
Yeah.
00:20:40
Jessica
and um it just There's a lot more that goes into apples than I think a lot of people think. um i At one point in my career, I attended a couple of the fruit grower meetings and I was in a different position.
00:20:53
Jessica
And I know the apple growers would go there and they'd also grow peaches too. mean We're not talking about peaches today, but one of the growers would always talk about is like a Pete, a Kentucky peach is a special thing, right?
00:20:57
Plant People
Yeah.
00:21:02
Alexis
Yeah, I'll say.
00:21:03
Jessica
It would get a Kentucky peach, i i but really like Kentucky apples are also a special thing when you think about everything we have to do to get really great production.
00:21:04
Alexis
Really get one every five years.
00:21:04
Plant People
If you can get them two out of 10 years, yeah.
00:21:04
Brett
preach Preach into the choir.
00:21:11
Plant People
Yeah.
00:21:17
Jessica
Um, and there the supply that these guys do have, uh, you know, this time of year.
00:21:17
Plant People
Yeah.
00:21:22
Plant People
Homeowners, ah they hold the standard of apples here that I've worked with over the years in Kentucky. They say, well, we planted a tree at home. it The apples look nothing like the apples that I get at the local orchard.
00:21:35
Plant People
And it's because of those inputs, Jessica, that you just mentioned. All the all the care, all the scouting, all the all the sprays, insecticides and fungicides sometimes that are needed to have a marketable crop and and ah and an apple that looks clean.
00:21:49
Brett
Sometimes the variety they sell you at the big box store isn't a good variety to grow here.
00:21:52
Jessica
at that's that's what I was gonna say like having to
00:21:53
Plant People
No, good for Washington state, but not here.
00:21:53
Alexis
Mmhmm. Most of the time.
00:21:56
Plant People
Yeah. Yeah.
00:21:58
Jessica
but or that you see at this box stores a lot that they'll be like, Fuji, rad delicious.
00:21:58
Plant People
um
00:22:02
Jessica
You know, like these dinner ones that we're used to seeing at the grocery store.
00:22:03
Alexis
Mmhmm.
00:22:04
Plant People
yeah
00:22:06
Jessica
But then when you go to some of these orchard, you're like, I don't see those varieties. And it's because, you know, these growers are growing the things that they know do well. Um, and they might be able to find you something that compares to that in flavor, if that's what you really like, right?
00:22:16
Plant People
Yeah. Yeah.
00:22:20
Plant People
Mm hmm.
00:22:20
Jessica
Or they might be able to have something there that's new and different that it could be a, you know, your new favorite.
00:22:23
Alexis
Yeah. But how, yeah.
00:22:24
Brett
if you're
00:22:24
Alexis
Right. Like how fun is that? That like you might be have access to apples that people in other States would never have access to because they, you know, don't that they don't grow well in that state.
00:22:35
Alexis
Like I feel like that's super special and a cool why like I love buying apples locally this time of year. Cause I'm not going to find them anywhere else.
00:22:42
Plant People
Yeah.
00:22:42
Alexis
Any other time of year. I think that's, that's fun.
00:22:44
Plant People
Not everybody has an Arkansas black apple. You know, it's more of a local and regional thing.
00:22:47
Alexis
I can't believe we just brought that up somebody was like going yeah on and on about that being like their favorite Apple I've never tried it and they're like I'm gonna plant a bunch of them and it was it do they huh I need to I need to get my hands on this one apparently then that sounds cool I just bought a bag yeah
00:22:47
Brett
If, if you're Arkansas black, my favorite.
00:22:52
Plant People
It's a good one. I like it.
00:22:55
Jessica
shaker
00:22:55
Plant People
Oh, man.
00:22:58
Jessica
Shaker Shaker Village has a couple of them out this way.
00:23:01
Plant People
Oh, man.
00:23:01
Jessica
Mm-hmm
00:23:01
Plant People
Yeah, yeah.
00:23:05
Plant People
You do. It's a good one. But ah that that that local, yeah, it's good stuff. but that I love the local angle, Alexis, ah that they bring. I know we're talking about apples, and but you know, when you talk about orchards, you just can't talk about apples because part of the planning is.
00:23:23
Plant People
Because when you're bringing these things into production, you know, orchardists are also thinking about, well, what am I going to cash flow with in the two to three years? Even if you're setting up a high den, what are you going to cash flow with?
00:23:30
Alexis
Mm.
00:23:33
Plant People
So you're also talking about berries and strawberries, blackberries, raspberries, sometimes blueberries, if you really want to challenge, particularly here in central Kentucky with our soil, alkalinity and pH.
00:23:35
Jessica
Mm hmm.
00:23:35
Alexis
Mm.
00:23:44
Plant People
But you're talking about all of those things too, because especially if you're an onsite agritourism business and many orchards are, I mean, that they do a lot of file events and and um you know involve themselves with that.
00:23:57
Plant People
But you're also talking about all of that. And somebody mentioned insurance and all of that plays into it too. Once again, we're in the planning phase of our discussion right now. We're not even into storage or marketing or packaging.
00:24:11
Plant People
ah Yeah, all of that
Innovations in Orchard Practices
00:24:13
Plant People
comes later.
00:24:13
Jessica
out pruning, all of those things.
00:24:13
Plant People
and And pruning also, while you're not getting any production, the thing of it is you're still doing insect and disease control for those three years.
00:24:21
Jessica
Yep.
00:24:22
Alexis
you
00:24:23
Plant People
while you're waiting on the production to spin up, you're also pruning, which is a little bit less than a high density system if you're one of the newer systems.
00:24:23
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:24:31
Plant People
But if you're pruning a ah ah traditional orchard here in Kentucky, I guarantee you the amount of brush that comes from winter pruning, dormant pruning is absolutely phenomenal.
00:24:40
Alexis
the
00:24:43
Plant People
It is such a huge job. And that's another big benefit of these newer types of systems. There's less wood that comes out of those, but yeah, yeah, you're doing all of that while you're not getting production.
00:24:50
Alexis
and And if you're wondering yeah if you're wondering why, um Ray kind of hinted at this earlier. And those like kind of traditional apple orchards that we see, we're doing mostly semi-dwarf trees, where in these high densities, we're doing like true dwarf.
00:25:07
Alexis
They're smaller, so they're just not producing as much.
00:25:07
Plant People
everyone one
00:25:08
Jessica
Mm hmm.
00:25:09
Alexis
um You're training them, but you're not necessarily pruning them as often. ah So that's part of it, which you know cuts way back on labor costs for that time of year.
00:25:20
Alexis
Again, it's just that initial investment up front of a trellising system.
00:25:23
Plant People
hannah
00:25:24
Alexis
And that's why you're not having, one of the reasons you're not having to prune quite as much because you're training rather than pruning.
00:25:28
Plant People
Yeah, that's a good point.
00:25:30
Alexis
but um It is ah is interesting i was looking at ah so a news article and you know we've been doing high density in kentucky for you know ten or more years now ah but there's just so few orchards that when you have a new orchard come on it's just like you might not ever know until you know five years down the road and you're like oh
00:25:50
Plant People
Yeah.
00:25:52
Alexis
Let's go apple picking. ah But they were saying it used to be when we thought about orchards, when we think about like land labor, capital of it, land usually capital we've already talked about is usually pretty high.
00:26:04
Alexis
ah Labor used to be really high, and it's still pretty high in comparison to some other crops, but not as much with high density. ah But it used to be land is really high. right You need several acres to make a living off of um apple trees, if that's what you want to know.
00:26:15
Jessica
Mm hmm.
00:26:19
Alexis
and With this high density planting going from 300 to upwards of a thousand trees per acre, you can make a living off of you know five acres, which used to not be the case with ah You know, with orchards used to have to have a lot more, but five acres, sometimes less, uh, I guess, depending on what your standards are, but you can do that.
00:26:42
Alexis
And I feel like that's really interesting because a lot of time we think of farms, we think about these really big areas, right? We think about 10 or more acres or or a lot more than that, but to to know you could have what is truly a commercial operation, uh, that is your full-time job on five acres, I think is a pretty interesting.
00:26:54
Plant People
Yeah.
00:27:01
Alexis
concept, um especially for a lot of places in Kentucky where they don't have five flat acres.
00:27:05
Plant People
I think Apple orchards define, you know, we, a lot of times are,
00:27:07
Alexis
So you can plant trees on rolling land. And I think that's a cool opportunity for a lot of our growers in you know more Eastern Kentucky areas.
00:27:15
Jessica
Mm hmm.
00:27:19
Plant People
We have to define horticulture when we're speaking to groups, but you just you just nailed it. Orchards kind of exemplify horticulture in a way because it's the intensity of production to bring a given crop to market. you know and that's it's goingnna An gonna be intense. for Five acres of corn is gonna be, the labor required for five acres of corn, significantly less than five acres of apples. That's 5,000 high density trees.
00:27:44
Plant People
Roughly, but it's that intensity of production that defines horticulture that differentiates horticulture from, let's say, row crops is that sheer intensity of inputs, you know, to get that to market or whatever.
00:27:48
Alexis
Mmhmm. Mmhmm.
00:27:55
Plant People
So, yeah, they that's kind of like when I think of horticulture, that's one of the things pops in my mind visually is an orchard.
00:28:00
Alexis
That's super cool.
00:28:04
Brett
I think you know it's it's important, Alexis, you were talking earlier about the 10-year slingshot effect of I'm making a decision now that will have to play out in markets and in a culture and in a context that could be very different in 10 years.
00:28:10
Alexis
Mmhmm.
00:28:20
Brett
And I don't know if it's just living through it myself, or but it seems like the pace of change in in a lot of cultural corners of the world is very fast now. But I think the thing to remember too is if you if you want to have a successful orchard business across your the rest of your lifetime.
00:28:37
Brett
Let's say maybe you have you want to do this for 30 years. it has You kind of have to go with some of the ebbs and flows across that time.
00:28:44
Alexis
It's like stock exchange.
00:28:47
Brett
Yeah. And I and i think i think one of the things, a lot of the orchards around here, they that with their operation now looks, as far as their marketing and all that kind of stuff, it looks very different than it did even 10 years ago.
00:28:47
Plant People
down.
00:28:59
Jessica
Mm hmm.
00:28:59
Brett
They may have had a little bit of on-farm you pick and a little bit of direct on-farm sales and the rest of it was going to maybe a bigger buyer or it might be that quite the opposite that they were trying to do more and more retail, but they had opportunities where they could market through the schools or something like that.
00:29:19
Alexis
Mm hmm.
00:29:20
Brett
And I just think um you know agritourism sometimes is this novel way of marketing what was a working farm that was trying to grow stuff and market it in more traditional ways.
00:29:30
Alexis
Mm hmm.
00:29:33
Brett
And they sort of been able to pivot. And the funny thing is through all of that, those trees were in the ground developing in many cases. And um that that issue you were talking about, Ray, of the cashflow, where it particularly pertains to when you're trying to start.
00:29:46
Brett
you know If you're trying to start from scratch, that means you're going to take actions that are going to not return anything for several years.
00:29:46
Plant People
Hmm.
00:29:54
Jessica
Mm hmm.
00:29:54
Brett
How do you do that? um In other cases, it's like people will have older trees and and this is why part of like part of why you'll see sometimes ah one generation will sell the orchard to another person who's taking it over.
Generational Shifts in Orchard Business
00:30:08
Brett
And so you have these trees that where you're not waiting. They're and they're already in production.
00:30:10
Alexis
Looking.
00:30:13
Brett
There are times where the trees get too old, and it's kind of a, let's do something different, let's start something new, but and that those are some trends that I've seen in orchards around ah around the state over the last, you know, five, six years in particular, where you'll have, um in in the case of the Reed Valley Orchard, they have this transitional ah effort that they've done with the the folks over at Stepping Stone.
00:30:16
Plant People
Mmhmm.
00:30:20
Plant People
Mmhmm.
00:30:40
Brett
um What used to be Boyd's Orchard was sold to Eckert's Orchard. um and and Honestly, when I go to those fruit meetings, ah there's there's a lot of experience.
00:30:51
Brett
There's also a lot of gray hairs in the room, and it's a reality of of farming, but it's also a huge reality of the orchard business is that a lot of the people who are interested are are aging. do you all Have you all interacted with folks who are ah maybe starting out or closer to the starting out point in their journey with these orchards?
00:31:08
Brett
Are we going to still have some orchards in 10 years?
00:31:10
Plant People
You've already mentioned ours, Brad, is Stepping Stone.
00:31:12
Jessica
I, yeah.
00:31:13
Plant People
Yeah, the other younger.
00:31:14
Jessica
i have I have one that is, I'd say they're like middle age wanting to start it and it's just kind of ironic. um He came from like Indiana or Illinois um and worked on his huge um apple orchard before.
00:31:29
Alexis
Mm hmm.
00:31:29
Jessica
And when I say it's just kind of funny, um we have two very popular fall agritourism places here in Mercer County. Devine's Corn Maze and Dana Brook Greenhouses, and they are like within not even five miles of each other.
00:31:46
Jessica
And this guy, um who know he knows, both of them will be also within that five mile range when he starts planting his orchard and wants to do the whole fall.
00:31:55
Brett
like Silicon Valley or something.
00:31:58
Jessica
the fall thing.
00:31:58
Plant People
Apple Valley.
00:32:00
Jessica
Kind of going back to what Brett said about seeing change with these orchards. So I had the opportunity to work with some of them prior to this job, and I've been here for 10 years. So I got to see some of that change, right?
00:32:12
Jessica
Because I used to go out and trap spotted wing Drosophila fruit fly we were tracking. But to see the change, and especially the changes that happened once we went through COVID, because you know people were looking for things to do outside, and those some of those agritourism places were just like overloaded. right So to see their changes of how they already had stuff going, um but they've increased more of their like activities for people to do that were like outside,
00:32:43
Jessica
or you're talking about like the people who are starting up, like their trees might not be ready yet for apple production, but they go ahead and they're starting strawberries. right so They're already drawing people in with other things and people are seeing the apple trees so that they know they're going to be there and they just keep drawing them in with more of these, I say annual crops because a lot of them are doing like strawberries on plastic you know to draw people in, have a little farm market,
00:32:53
Plant People
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
00:33:09
Jessica
and
Orchard Marketing and Agritourism
00:33:10
Jessica
So you're already building that clientele base in that, you know, that following.
00:33:10
Plant People
Yeah.
00:33:15
Plant People
I've seen the farm markets at orchards. Have you guys worked, have you guys seen that? You didn't just mention farm markets, but some of these are getting to be full fledged local food system shopping kind of venues at orchards.
00:33:25
Jessica
Yeah.
00:33:27
Plant People
And I love that because it's, you know, there's the shelf stability aspect that's year round. And I see more and more of these orchards for years.
00:33:33
Alexis
Mm hmm.
00:33:33
Jessica
Give me all the apple cider.
00:33:36
Plant People
It's awesome. I love going to these local orchard shops and, you know, you just walk in and there's all these products.
00:33:38
Alexis
Mm hmm.
00:33:42
Plant People
I mean, I'm looking at you, Saturday nights.
00:33:42
Alexis
Yeah. And they're not all their products. Yeah.
00:33:44
Plant People
I'm looking at you.
00:33:44
Alexis
Like, yeah, sometimes they're, I want that.
00:33:45
Jessica
Oh yeah, cider donuts too.
00:33:47
Plant People
Yeah.
00:33:48
Alexis
Yeah. Sometimes they're, you know, somebody makes pumpkin butter or there's, you know, the local vegetable farm that's close by will have, it's sort of, so it's like a little roadside stand, but, um, a little bit more, a little more kitschy, right?
00:33:52
Plant People
Mhm.
00:33:58
Jessica
It's like, yeah.
00:34:03
Alexis
Like a little bit more of the event to go to, to take the family there or something.
00:34:07
Brett
Yeah, look I think i think in those in those, it's kind of a oxymoron, I guess, but like more heavily populated rural areas, ah there's a real opportunity for those types of stores where you can get some meat, you could get some bread, you could get some produce, you can get sauces and um even decor for your house.
00:34:17
Alexis
Uh-huh.
00:34:18
Jessica
Mm hmm.
00:34:28
Brett
and
00:34:29
Plant People
Yeah.
00:34:30
Brett
Because because you're you're not competing with, i can get you know I live in Lexington, I can get to five grocery stores in under 20 minutes. And a lot of those rural places, they're that's not the case. you know Going to a so-so grocery store takes a while. And so there are, that that's been a really that really interesting phenomenon to see those things pop up. And I think in those contexts, there's people who really are, you know I guess hungry is the right word for those those types of amenities.
00:34:57
Brett
So as far as the Yupik side of things, um that was the original original things, maybe people were taking their kids or themselves out to pick some apples, I was talking with one of my colleagues and he said for the first time he had seen in Kentucky, maybe we just haven't been paying attention, that the price per pound for Yupik apples was actually higher than if you bought the pre-picked apples off the shelf in the store.
00:35:23
Alexis
Okay.
00:35:26
Brett
Now, I had been to places in the past where this is when I was working on one of the research farms and spending a lot of my days picking ah fruits and vegetables off of plants where the price was the same.
00:35:26
Jessica
um huh
00:35:38
Brett
It was equal.
00:35:39
Alexis
Mmhmm.
00:35:39
Brett
You could either do you pick or you could just get it out of the bin. And I was like, why on earth would I go and pick this if they've already done it for me? i was I was living the agritourism experience, I guess you could say.
00:35:47
Jessica
Mm hmm.
00:35:50
Alexis
Yeah.
00:35:50
Jessica
yes
00:35:51
Brett
um And so I wasn't looking to vacation there. But I think that that's an interesting ah dynamic. and And the fact that they're able to do it, and this is an established place, you know this isn't some place that's just trying things out.
00:35:59
Jessica
i yeah
00:36:06
Brett
The fact that they're able to do it indicates some things to me. What is your role's reaction to hearing that?
00:36:08
Plant People
I think they experience, yeah.
00:36:10
Jessica
I think people, but yeah, I was going to say pay for the experience.
00:36:13
Plant People
Yeah.
00:36:13
Jessica
I think from a grower standpoint, if I was thinking about my own trees and stuff, I think things get tore up. Right. Um, cause you see people are like, they might have signs of like, please don't climb the trees to try to get, you know, apples, but there are people climbing the trees and, you know, so maybe charging a little more for those cause you're banking on
00:36:38
Plant People
Yeah.
00:36:38
Jessica
Maybe it's impossible damage happening or something, but I think people pay for the experience.
00:36:40
Plant People
Well, and you also have to have more people.
00:36:41
Alexis
Yeah.
00:36:43
Plant People
You have to have more, more people giving directions and monitoring the situation.
00:36:43
Alexis
Mmhmm.
00:36:43
Jessica
Yeah.
00:36:47
Plant People
Insurance is going to look a little different if you're doing a UPIC. So there are certain real verifiable costs with UPIC and that's an interesting observation, Brett, and how they, how these groups calculate that.
00:37:00
Jessica
hu
00:37:01
Plant People
Because so many times I think orchards do sell the experience and I will pay a premium for that experience to go pick because it's not a real like price objective decision when I go to an orchard. There's a different part of my brain that engages and we recently went to a large local orchard here in Scott, Scott County. Some of you guys know it.
00:37:20
Plant People
and we paid our you know $20 a person or whatever to go to this magnificent essentially this to go shoot you know apple cannons and do all the agritourism stuff with our 10-year-old son and we had the best time there it was like Kings Island on the orchard we absolutely loved it but you know that was part of the experience that didn't have a lot with ah to do with growing the the apples and going to pick the apples.
00:37:45
Plant People
We did do that eventually that day, but we did all the other activities, the value added stuff. I guess would i guess I'd fall under that Brett, the value add stuff that you get people in the door and then they can do all the other related activities.
00:37:55
Alexis
value added experience.
00:37:56
Plant People
Yeah, all the experiences. So there's all that going on too. And it was amazing to me that I probably saw three or 4,000 people standing around me that day and all of them had had paid to get wristbands to go into the farm.
00:38:04
Jessica
Hm.
00:38:08
Plant People
on this big, beautiful, just rolling acres in the back of the farm and do all these other activities that were related to orchards, but not closely. It was a part of the orchard operation, though, from some very savvy business people.
00:38:22
Brett
Yeah. Well, a couple of the things that just jump out from what you're you know what you're saying. another thing and Another way that people have recouped costs or preemptively gotten the cost is by charging an admission fee to go out and and do it in the first place.
00:38:34
Plant People
Yes.
00:38:36
Brett
And some people are doing both. They're charging more per pound and they're charging for the admission fee. And I think both of those are smart. And I think it's always funny. Sometimes people think that consumers are real can be real tight with their money or sometimes I've noticed producers in Kentucky, they get They preemptively worried about people being mad about their prices and people do not care.
00:38:52
Alexis
and here
00:38:55
Brett
Like they don't bat an eye at certain certain increases.
00:38:56
Alexis
They want what they want when they want it.
00:38:59
Brett
Yeah, they want quality.
00:38:59
Alexis
Ariana Grande.
00:39:01
Brett
Yeah, are ah i don't I don't know him, but you know, if he's a good, does he grow as a good orchardist?
00:39:04
Plant People
you don't You don't pay the entrance fee to a theme park, yeah.
00:39:07
Alexis
I want it.
00:39:08
Plant People
yeah
00:39:08
Alexis
I got it. I want it.
00:39:09
Brett
Oh, Monsana Grande.
00:39:12
Plant People
You had to lead us into that a little bit, yeah.
00:39:12
Brett
um But the the um thinking about recouping those costs, I think the what Jessica was saying about like you grab that they grab one apple has a little bit of a discoloration, they throw it on the ground and then pick another one.
00:39:25
Jessica
Yep.
00:39:25
Brett
Well, now you're you're charging per pound for something that they now have taken double of and.
00:39:26
Alexis
who They didn't bring back.
00:39:26
Plant People
Yeah.
00:39:30
Alexis
Yeah.
00:39:31
Jessica
And there's like perfectly good apples being thrown on the ground that can be used for a variety of things.
00:39:35
Alexis
and They pull part of the branch down with it and stuff like, yes.
00:39:35
Plant People
And once it hits the ground, game over.
00:39:40
Jessica
Yeah.
00:39:41
Brett
But you also see this this ah adaptation to have the playground where you pay your admission fee for the playground. And there there is no real, you know, it's not, I guess certain things break down, its but it's not as depreciating an asset as some other things and you're just charging one after the other after the other.
00:39:58
Brett
And there is a part of me.
00:39:58
Plant People
Yeah.
00:40:00
Jessica
feed the animals with the petting zoo like
00:40:02
Plant People
Yes.
00:40:02
Brett
Oh yeah, the whole they'll go for the to the corn maze, all those things.
00:40:03
Jessica
but
00:40:05
Brett
And there's there's a part of me, the biggest part of me is like, this is a cool way for people to for farms to make some more money, be able to stay on the farm,
Weather's Impact on Orchards
00:40:14
Brett
et cetera. There is a small part of me sometimes that that feels when the when the horticulture or the agriculture is is fading a little bit into the background, there's a little bit of me that's like, I don't know, it it feels a little sad or something.
00:40:29
Brett
and and I don't know if you all feel that at all or if I'm just being overly sentimental.
00:40:33
Alexis
I get weird about every time I pass um a agritourism place and I'll see like beautiful moms or beautiful ungi baskets.
00:40:33
Plant People
No, yeah.
00:40:43
Alexis
and you know like the I can appreciate what went into the production of that. and Then behind them is this mass of carnival rides. And i'm just like what and then behind them is like a beautiful field you know it just in and it feels like it gets lost but also that's what my eyes attracted to is is the beautiful moms and things like that and i'm like i.
00:41:06
Plant People
and
00:41:08
Alexis
I'm bummed for the people who will never. who may never get the opportunity to appreciate the work that went into that, I guess. Is that like a fair way to say it?
00:41:18
Alexis
Like they're just so fake focused on the spinning teacups that.
00:41:19
Plant People
Yeah, these did but these businesses are so complex, yeah.
00:41:23
Alexis
Yeah.
00:41:23
Jessica
they don't realize that mom yeah but that mom was
00:41:26
Plant People
They're truly full-fledged experiences, yeah.
00:41:27
Jessica
painting
00:41:29
Alexis
And like, no, no judgment towards them. It's more about like, like you said, Brett, like the, the loss from the consumer standpoint of, you know, they're, they're not going there for.
00:41:31
Plant People
Yeah.
00:41:39
Alexis
the beautiful mums that they can't find somewhere else that healthy.
00:41:40
Plant People
You know, it is amazing, you guys, ah how scary, you know, we're talking about like, you know, these fall events are, which are, you know, good, good times for orchards, typically in the state for all these events, all these value add activities.
00:41:53
Plant People
But how scary is it um when, if you had a really wet October in Kentucky, early September, and we've had those wet October's and you make a large percentage of your income, a fair percentage of your income,
00:41:59
Alexis
and
00:42:00
Jessica
ah yeah
00:42:08
Plant People
at that time on orchards but that's all part of the the thing you have to kind of take into account and you build enough diversity and hopefully in the planning phase to account for like a really wet
00:42:10
Alexis
Mmhmm.
00:42:23
Plant People
um, a really wet October.
00:42:24
Jessica
Oh yeah.
00:42:25
Alexis
Yeah.
00:42:25
Plant People
I mean, we talked about peach growers and I had an orchard de with 35 years of experience telling me that if you get three out of every 10 years, you know, production in Kentucky with peaches, you're profitable. That was his definition.
00:42:36
Jessica
Mm hmm.
00:42:36
Plant People
I mean, you build, you kind of have to build this in, but it it's so unique and so interesting, the orchard business to me. And I just, it seems like the more I dig down, the more I want to know and the less I know.
00:42:49
Plant People
ah from a real world perspective.
00:42:49
Brett
Yeah.
00:42:51
Plant People
I mean, they're large, complex horticulture businesses.
00:42:54
Brett
and It's one of those things, it's it's ah it feels like a hard to shift perception in the minds of the the mind of the consumer because the reality is an agritourism operation in general should have activity from May through all the way through to, uh, you know, October, November, but it's the in the same way.
00:43:16
Brett
It's like, Oh, we've had one warm day. When did the tomatoes coming in at the farmer's market on April 20th?
00:43:20
Plant People
Yeah.
00:43:22
Jessica
Yeah.
00:43:22
Brett
And it's the same thing on the backside where it's like, Oh, it's cool in the air. We can get apples now. And it's like, actually even able to get apples for like a month and a half now.
00:43:29
Plant People
Long time, June on.
00:43:30
Alexis
Yeah, yeah. and there Or there was a drought all summer. so
00:43:34
Brett
Right.
00:43:34
Plant People
Yeah,
Orchard Experiences and Consumer Trends
00:43:35
Brett
Right. And I think i think that ah you know Jessica mentioned COVID being this really transitional and in in many ways, bolstering helpful a phenomenon for a lot of the
00:43:35
Plant People
yeah.
00:43:47
Jessica
ah hu
00:43:47
Brett
A lot of the agritourism operations, I think it added a lot of ah some extra complexity in thinking about managing um managing crowds and having the ability to buy tickets ahead of time and reserve your spot and be able to go out and not have this overwhelming experience.
00:43:58
Plant People
Uh-huh.
00:44:04
Plant People
Yeah.
00:44:05
Brett
I think that kind of can help in you know man in ah having a better time when you go out in the middle of peak season.
00:44:09
Alexis
she
00:44:11
Brett
um But I think in general, it's it's been challenging for a lot of the agritourism operations, but also the a lot of i hear I see a lot of positivity ah from from the growers and from but and from the consumer side.
00:44:25
Brett
So if you haven't yet, this is your this is your reminder to go try to go out and and check out an agritourism operation, grab a few apples.
00:44:29
Plant People
Yeah.
00:44:33
Brett
If you're like me, just grab them off the shelf inside and then go get some hot apple cider and a donut.
00:44:36
Alexis
yeah
00:44:38
Alexis
Man, I want a donut so bad right now.
00:44:39
Plant People
Go shoot the pump pumpkin cannon or the apple cannon.
00:44:39
Brett
don't You don't have to do any work.
00:44:43
Jessica
Yeah, I want some cider and a donut.
00:44:44
Alexis
Oh, I was like, what is, there's a movie, but no, she says hot dog.
00:44:46
Jessica
Sounds pretty good.
00:44:49
Alexis
I need a hot, I'd be like hot dog real bad. I want a hot dog real bad, but I want a donut.
00:44:53
Plant People
I think she says it like real bad. Yeah. Like that.
00:44:57
Alexis
I don't think it's quite that Jennifer.
00:44:57
Plant People
I forget the movie, but I remember how she said it.
00:44:58
Jessica
Like Jennifer Coolidge.
00:45:00
Plant People
Yeah. As far as wanting like, us yes, that thank you.
00:45:02
Alexis
It's a Jennifer Coolidge.
00:45:03
Plant People
That's it. That's that that's one of the movies, but it's like, I want an apple cider donut.
00:45:04
Jessica
Yeah.
00:45:05
Alexis
You look like the fourth of July.
00:45:07
Plant People
Yeah.
00:45:07
Jessica
Is it legally blonde? That's what it is.
00:45:09
Alexis
Yeah.
00:45:10
Plant People
Oh yeah. Yeah. Classic.
00:45:11
Alexis
Yeah.
00:45:12
Plant People
Uh, how, do how do we transition from orchards to the other?
00:45:12
Alexis
Did you look like the 4th of July? I want a hot dog real bad.
00:45:16
Jessica
We want a cider donut real bad.
00:45:18
Alexis
I want a cider donut real bad.
00:45:18
Plant People
Yes.
00:45:20
Alexis
Yeah.
00:45:21
Plant People
I mean, I think about fall in Kentucky and orchards are way up at the top because, I mean, you get your pumpkin, you get your donuts, you can do all of these things.
00:45:21
Alexis
thats
00:45:24
Jessica
Mm-hmm.
00:45:28
Plant People
And me, you know, having, you know, the age of kid that I do, he still really, you know, thinks we're cool enough to go with us and bless us with his, you know, attendance
Personal Reflections and Podcast Conclusion
00:45:37
Plant People
at these things. And we just have the best time together from zip lines to cider donuts.
00:45:42
Plant People
to going and picking our own fresh apple off the tree. We love it all. It's ah it's such good stuff to do.
00:45:47
Alexis
Aw.
00:45:50
Plant People
And ah the the variety of activities at these places, it's um it's pretty cool. I mean, from sunflower patches, if you're just taking pictures or doing things with some of the farms are getting more and more into cut flowers, which is kind of a different thing, um as well as the orchard.
00:46:07
Plant People
But yeah, they're finding ways to be, to to have a cashflow year round. And it's super cool, some of the creative ways that they're doing that.
00:46:13
Jessica
Mm hmm.
00:46:17
Plant People
ah But I know it's ah it's hard for a kind of kind of a mental shift, Brett, you mentioned it. When you think of orchard, you think about it like at a certain time of the year, I used to, but now it's like you see all of the ways that you're trying to level that out.
00:46:30
Plant People
Throughout the year and that's that's a really cool effort and one that they're always involved trying to stay on at the top of people's mind ah When strawberries come in is a completely different time typically when the apples are starting to come in later in the year.
00:46:37
Alexis
Yeah.
00:46:43
Plant People
Yeah
00:46:44
Brett
Well, I say we end on the wholesome image of Ray and his family just hand in hand, dancing through the orchards, making memories.
00:46:48
Jessica
Yeah, skipping through the orchard.
00:46:52
Alexis
but
00:46:53
Brett
That's so so sweet.
00:46:55
Plant People
Well, actually it was Jennifer screaming and re flipping upside down on a zip line.
00:46:55
Brett
i
00:47:00
Plant People
And it was, it was, it was fun screaming.
00:47:01
Brett
Come to think of it, it was just me having a good time.
00:47:02
Jessica
Happy springing.
00:47:02
Plant People
It was fun screaming. Yeah. We, we had a good time, but, uh, we, we do. We like, we like that orchard stuff. We do.
00:47:10
Alexis
Well, awesome. We appreciate you guys being here today. We hope you, you know, if you've not been to an apple orchard and maybe you're listening to this in the dreads of winter, you know, go go drink gives some cider because apple cider is good anytime and hopefully you can find you a cider donut.
00:47:25
Alexis
And if you do, let me know where you find it because I want to know. Send me some.
00:47:28
Brett
Regular donuts also substitute well in case of emergency.
00:47:31
Alexis
True, honestly, it's like if a little bit of cider, regular donut, you're basically having a cider donut.
00:47:33
Plant People
Truth, Brett, truth.
00:47:36
Alexis
So ah that works for anybody, but we hope you enjoyed it. ah Please follow us along. Hit the follow button on this podcast if you're not following already. ah That helps us out if you want to leave a review and tell us ah the best place to find cider donuts or your favorite fall donut flavor is also acceptable.
00:47:56
Alexis
Anything donut related is always acceptable in those reviews.
00:47:59
Brett
or your favorite apple variety also, if you're trying to eat the apple itself.
00:48:01
Alexis
You're fine. Okay, fine.
00:48:03
Plant People
Our comments on butter, we'll take those too.
00:48:04
Alexis
or Or how you slice butter.
00:48:05
Jessica
Oh yeah, all the foods. How do you slice butter?
00:48:09
Alexis
Yeah. You can also follow us on Instagram at hort culture pod. Uh, and we appreciate you and we hope that as we grow this podcast, you will grow with us. Have a great one.