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The Forgotten Fruit: A Pawpaw Primer
85 Plays2 months ago
In this episode of Hort Culture, we're joined by the esteemed Dr. Kirk Pomper from Kentucky State University, who delves into the fascinating world of pawpaws. Together, we explore the rich history and promising future of America's largest native fruit, discuss groundbreaking research, and share practical tips for cultivating your own pawpaw trees. Don't miss out on learning about pawpaw festivals and events, and where to seek further information on this unique and delicious fruit.
Kentucky State University Pawpaw Program
North American Pawpaw Growers Association Events Calendar
Questions/Comments/Feedback/Suggestions for Topics: [email protected]
Recommended
Transcript
Summer Tomato Delights
00:00:17
Alexis
Hello, welcome back. We're here today and we've got a guest and I'm very excited about our guests because we're talking about something tasty today. But speaking of something tasty for our random question of the day, Dr.
00:00:28
Brett
Oh.
00:00:29
Alexis
Palmer, I'm going to put you on the spot first, okay?
00:00:29
atack2010
OK.
00:00:30
Jessica
oh
00:00:31
Alexis
We're going to round table this, but what is your favorite way to eat a fresh summer tomato?
00:00:37
atack2010
Hmm.
00:00:37
Jessica
Oh, good question.
00:00:39
Alexis
Everyone, oh no.
00:00:40
atack2010
What if he doesn't like tomatoes, Alexis?
00:00:42
Alexis
If he does, I mean, he can, I just called him out for it if he doesn't, but little snack.
00:00:42
atack2010
This could get awkward right off.
00:00:47
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
Well, my favorite way to eat a tomato and in the summertime in Kentucky is I really like the cherry tomatoes. And so that's my favorite. So I have a garden where I always have several types, several varieties of of those.
00:01:02
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
and And I like just as I'm watering the plants, I'm eating cherry tomatoes. That's my favorite way to eat those tomatoes.
00:01:10
Jessica
A reward, right?
00:01:11
Alexis
Yeah, when they're warm from the sun.
00:01:11
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
Now,
00:01:13
Alexis
So good, yeah.
00:01:14
atack2010
So good. Yes.
00:01:14
Alexis
Do you have a do ah you have a favorite of the cherries that you like the most? Are you like a yellow cherry guy or red?
00:01:23
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
I'm more of a red eye you know the the the sweet 100s you know though that's really my favorite I've tried a number of different varieties I still might go to. so
00:01:34
Alexis
I love that. Yeah, sun gold is my my personal fave if we're talking cherries.
00:01:36
atack2010
Oh, that's a good one.
00:01:37
Jessica
Those are good.
00:01:37
atack2010
Yeah. Both of those are good ones.
00:01:39
Alexis
Yeah, yeah.
00:01:39
atack2010
Yeah. Very sweet. Both of those.
00:01:41
Alexis
ah Jessica, big tomato lover, favorite way to eat a summer tomato.
00:01:43
Jessica
Yes. Um, we talk about this often when we would say, Hey, what'd you bring for lunch for at work today? And be like, I brought a tomato. Right. Um, I just love a good tomato sandwich with may mayo on it and like salt and pepper maybe, and maybe some cheese sometimes.
00:01:52
atack2010
Here it is.
00:01:58
Alexis
Chef's kiss.
00:02:01
Jessica
Like I'm very happy with that. I also introduced my children this past weekend to a classic, uh, old South Farm manager, a specialty, Daryl Sloan, would make ah sausage and biscuits with a big slice of tomato and onion on it.
00:02:17
Jessica
I introduced my children to that this weekend and they thought that was the best dinner ever.
00:02:20
Alexis
Mom award.
00:02:21
Jessica
So we're probably going to have that way more often until tomato season is over. but
00:02:25
Brett
Cinnamon rolls for breakfast.
00:02:26
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
Thank you.
00:02:28
Brett
Sausage biscuit with tomato and onion for dinner.
00:02:30
Jessica
Big slice of tomato. Yeah.
00:02:32
Brett
What's the, what's the bread situation on that, on that tomato sandwich? Is that, is that toasted, is that white bread, wheat bread, sourdough? What's the, what's the vibe you're serving up there?
00:02:40
Jessica
uh for me it's it's all of the above for we we yes yes for the sausage and biscuit we actually like made homemade biscuits for it so yeah but um yeah it's all about the tomato right so it can be any kind of bread it's on
00:02:44
Alexis
Whatever bread's my pantry.
00:02:44
atack2010
Uh-huh.
00:02:44
Brett
Wow. There's like six, six slices of bread stacked together. Just different tastes of the Rambo.
00:02:52
Alexis
well
00:02:53
atack2010
Nice. Nice. Very nice.
00:02:59
atack2010
You're showcasing it. Yeah. I like it.
00:03:00
Alexis
True, true. Bread is just a vessel.
00:03:02
atack2010
Amazing.
00:03:03
Alexis
Bread, tomatoes.
00:03:06
Brett
Um, I don't really like tomato. No, I'm just kidding.
00:03:08
Alexis
I curse you.
00:03:08
atack2010
Yeah.
00:03:08
Jessica
oh
00:03:08
Brett
Uh, I, and I enjoy it.
00:03:10
atack2010
Bread who?
00:03:11
Brett
I enjoyed tomato. I i would say, yeah, sandwiches is probably the, the go-to. Um, we do, uh, we do a sauerkraut and a sauerkraut grilled cheese.
00:03:24
Brett
And you know, then you get that all grilled up and pop it open, slap, slap your tomato in there.
00:03:24
Jessica
o Yeah.
00:03:29
Brett
Cause you don't want the tomato to be too warm and, uh, and go that way. That's probably my, my jam these days.
00:03:36
Alexis
Like that? What about you, Ray?
00:03:37
atack2010
Like, can you guys have not, believe it or not, taken all the good ways to eat tomatoes. And my, ah my yeah, my OG way was just to carry a salt shaker in a truck during and tomato season and just jump out and grab them warm.
00:03:43
Alexis
There's so many.
00:03:50
atack2010
But in dealing with the theme of excess tomatoes, a good tomato pie is hard to beat because it's got lots of mayonnaise in there.
00:03:58
Alexis
man
00:04:00
Jessica
have not made one of those this year.
00:04:00
atack2010
So tomato pies, and it's a good way to get rid of a lot of tomatoes and eat all the fat stuff in there too.
00:04:02
Jessica
Gotta do it.
00:04:07
atack2010
So a good tomato pie.
00:04:09
Jessica
Some bacon in it and
00:04:09
atack2010
I'm a font. Oh yes, absolutely. Yeah, all the things in there.
00:04:13
Alexis
Can't go wrong.
00:04:15
atack2010
Yeah.
00:04:15
Alexis
Yeah. I'm a, I'm a classic, uh, tomato with salt. Slice that up.
00:04:19
atack2010
Okay.
00:04:20
Alexis
Just coming in because you're always I'm always hot and sweaty right it's tomato season so I come in I'm hot I need some salt anyways and That's just you can't go wrong with that so yes Slice in my fingers no for no you I want it as like little work as possible sometimes I just just like me and a knife and I just like
00:04:22
atack2010
Good stuff.
00:04:25
atack2010
It is.
00:04:31
Brett
And yeah are you then like, is that are you slice is it sliced? Are you using a fork or using?
00:04:36
atack2010
Just.
00:04:38
Brett
Okay.
00:04:42
atack2010
That's why I eat them in the field, Alexis, is I just go in the field because you just kind of you have to have the tomato lean.
00:04:43
Alexis
they
00:04:43
Brett
Primal, primal connection.
00:04:48
atack2010
You have to lean forward to let all the drippings make it make their way to the soil.
00:04:50
Alexis
Yeah. yeah
00:04:51
Jessica
Eating.
00:04:53
atack2010
And so you just dash salt on there and you do the tomato lean and you're just juice goes everywhere.
00:04:55
Alexis
Just bite salt.
00:04:57
Jessica
Eat it like an apple, right?
00:04:58
atack2010
Yes. Yeah, just let it go. Let it go.
The Pawpaw Phenomenon
00:05:01
atack2010
On that trail.
00:05:01
Brett
Yeah. Well, you know, one of the, one of the things about like tomatoes that are really good when they're vine ripened is the, like they're, they're, they're ephemeral, right? There's just this moment of like it's ripe and then you go too long and it's not, it's not so good anymore.
00:05:15
Alexis
and
00:05:17
Brett
You know, it's a little, little weird.
00:05:18
atack2010
There's a point. There's a point.
00:05:19
Brett
And ah I think the thing we're going to talk about today is it takes that that level of ephemeral, but the beautiful short window of seasonality to a whole other level. And it's one of the things that makes it magical. It makes it exciting. It makes it brings about a ah craze in the air this time of year among the the local food squad. What are we talking about, Alexis?
00:05:43
Alexis
Well, they already know this as listeners because they read the intro, but we're talking about paw paws today. So, uh, but maybe, maybe not. Maybe you're just listening endlessly and we just episodes just keep popping up in your earbuds. So yeah, we're talking about paw paws today with a our resident paw paw expert and not just resident, probably one of the top paw paw experts that we're lucky to have right here in the state of Kentucky, which is Dr. Kirk Pumper who loves to eat his cherry tomatoes. So welcome Dr. Pumper.
00:06:12
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
Thank you. It's nice to be here.
00:06:14
Alexis
excited
00:06:15
atack2010
I want to know right off, Dr.
00:06:15
Alexis
it's it
00:06:17
atack2010
Pomper, from what I understand what what reading I've done on Pop Paws, there's kind of been this undulation of interest. in Pawpaws. There was a lot real early and then, you know, came the insurgents of availability of all these exotic fruits.
00:06:30
atack2010
And at one point in time, the the interest sort of went down, but now it seems like the interest is pretty high. I mean, is that the case? Because we get lots of questions out in the counties on Pawpaws.
00:06:40
Alexis
We're excited.
00:06:42
atack2010
So yeah, what what's bringing about this increased interest in Pawpaws?
00:06:43
Alexis
It's perfect.
00:06:47
atack2010
And yeah, if you can tell us a little bit about that.
00:06:51
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
Yeah, I do think there's, you know, there's continuing increase in in interest in Pawpaw. Really, you know, the last few years, there's been a lot of different events that have occurred to whether it be Pawpaw Festival, you know, there's the Ohio Pawpaw Festival that's been very successful.
00:07:09
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
Now we've got the Louisville Pawpaw Festival that's happening.
00:07:12
atack2010
I did not realize that Louisville had a pop off festival.
00:07:13
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
um Yeah, it's going to be this coming weekend, which is
00:07:15
Jessica
I didn't either Wow.
00:07:16
atack2010
one
00:07:19
atack2010
Hmm.
00:07:21
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
It's going to be, I guess the seventh, it's a Saturday, but it's going to be an annual event in Louisville. And so the first one was last year and had about 1500 people come.
00:07:33
Alexis
ah
00:07:34
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
It was at the Louisville Nature Center. So it's a great opportunity to come out and see Papa, you know, every third Thursday in September.
00:07:47
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
We also have a workshop about Pawpaw KSU farm. And so that's a great opportunity for folks to always plan to come down, walk through the orchards, taste some fruit, and and see that.
00:08:00
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
But there's just been ah ah you know an increase, I think, and um in interest in Pawpaw. Maybe some of that's driven by, there's just an awful lot of social media out there with people talking about Pawpaw.
00:08:11
atack2010
Mmhmm.
00:08:12
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
Now, if you go on Facebook, there's about a half a dozen very large and popular social media sites discussing pawpaw. And so I just think that we're we're in a ah time period now where a lot of people know about it.
00:08:27
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
And I was just at the at the Kentucky State Fair working at a ah booth there for Kentucky State University. And I was just there about six hours and I had about 25 pawpaw questions.
00:08:41
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
So it's just amazing the number of people who either
00:08:41
atack2010
Oh wow, so yeah.
00:08:46
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
tasted pawpaw before, had a family member knew about pawpaw or just heard about it. And so I think it it is just something that we're building, we're continuing to build forward and a lot of people are very interested in that fruit.
00:09:02
Alexis
Should we take a step back really quick? And we have a lot of people listening who maybe aren't Kentuckians who knew, like my my family aren't from Kentucky.
00:09:13
Alexis
And so they did not know what a paw-paw was probably until I studied horticulture and was like, this is a Kentucky fruit, you know? So tell us a little bit yeah more of what is a paw-paw and maybe, I mean, you've got done extensive, really cool things with it.
00:09:21
atack2010
kentucky kiwi
00:09:28
Alexis
So we'd love to hear a little bit about you know what you've done as well.
00:09:31
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
sure So, you know, papa, it's a native fruit to Kentucky. It's it's a tree fruit. ah you You probably have seen a papa and didn't realize it when you've been walking through the woods.
00:09:43
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
It's a native understory tree. And ah so a lot of times folks have collected fruit from the patches. It almost looks like a green potato. That's how a lot of people describe it.
00:09:53
Jessica
That's a good way to describe it, yeah.
00:09:53
Alexis
Yeah.
00:09:53
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
i ye And if you cut it open, you know, it'll have ah either kind of yellow to orange flesh. It does have fairly large seeds that you don't wanna eat, but you know the the the pulp is really good.
00:10:06
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
Sweet has kind of a banana mango pineapple flavor, ah just like with different varieties of apples, ah the varieties of paw paws all have a slightly different taste also.
00:10:19
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
And so yeah there's the folks who grow them out in their woods, there's folks who ah have have kind of tried to transplant paw paws, and then there's kind of the hardcore horticulturists
00:10:21
atack2010
Thank you.
00:10:30
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
like myself, who then tried taking those varieties, growing them under intensive culture and orchards. And that's what we've been doing for a number of years. So we've, we pretty much, we've worked with the nursery industry on how to actually grow them and produce them and propagate them. And then we've been trying to work out what the orchard orchard recommendation should be on how to best grow them.
Cultivating Pawpaws
00:10:54
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
And, uh, and then we, we've just worked in processing.
00:10:58
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
ah Trying to process that fruit and then finally trying to breed for even better paw paws. That's our final part So that's what I've been doing about 27 years now ah Had some administration in there too, but I've never left doing paw paw and now I'm back to full full-time paw paw again
00:11:17
atack2010
Poppos are so interesting.
00:11:17
Alexis
thank goodness right plant people
00:11:18
Jessica
you
00:11:19
atack2010
i mean it's like a When I see a pawpaw tree start to yellow up, when I grew up in the eastern foothills, and I'm seeing in my mind the pawpaw range map, and maybe you can talk about that just here in a sec, but when I would see the pawpaw trees turn yellow, my you know my father and And his parents would say that that meant fall.
00:11:38
atack2010
When you start to see that thing turn yellow, that's how I knew it was fall. That and the tomato plants finally started to die. And I was very happy about that because I was sick of those. But when I mean, it was a it was a seasonal indicator for me.
00:11:50
atack2010
And I guess that kind of makes sense with what you were telling us earlier about when they get ripe. But the range of those, Alexis, I guess you grew up where Pennsylvania or your your.
00:11:59
Alexis
Well, I'm from Northern Kentucky, but my mom's from Pennsylvania.
00:12:01
atack2010
Yeah, your family rather, but
00:12:03
Alexis
and Yeah, there are Yankees up in there, the yeah Yankee Appalachian people.
00:12:06
atack2010
But I was wondering, like, what are the range, if you can paint a picture for us, where Popeyes natively grow. It seems like Kentucky is kind of right in the center of that area, isn't it?
00:12:15
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
we we really are almost right in the center of the the native growing range. And, you know, basically they require a little bit of chilling, you know, to flower and to to break bud.
00:12:27
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
And so you find them kind of in Northern Florida and Southern Louisiana, as far West as kind of Eastern Texas, Nebraska, Oklahoma, and then as far North kind of into Southern Iowa and Michigan and even around Lake Ontario,
00:12:30
atack2010
Hmm.
00:12:44
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
and into New York. And so pretty much the whole East Coast kind of south from New York has native Pawpaws. And so we're right smack in the middle of the native range. And and so there's just a lot of ah folks have been selecting Pawpaws in those areas, too. There's there's probably been more ah folks who've selected Pawpaw varieties in the northern part of the range than the southern. And there's really not a particular reason for that is just that it's just kind of what's happened now with our cultivar base but but yeah there's pawpaws throughout those areas and so I think that's why so many people you know i have grandparents or friends or somebody who grew up maybe pawpaw hunting right out there in the woods and we we actually have a ah very popular ah bumper sticker that says I'd rather be pawpaw hunting and
00:13:31
Alexis
Mmhmm.
00:13:31
Jessica
yeah
00:13:39
Jessica
um
00:13:39
atack2010
I need to know where I can get that, because papa hunting, I mean, they were they were almost like a folklore tree growing up for us and in the eastern part of the state.
00:13:40
Jessica
yeah
00:13:49
atack2010
I mean, they were very highly coveted trees and and so adaptable. Sometimes an understory tree, as you mentioned, a midsizer. And sometimes they they just did really well out in full sun also, but ah we knew, I was telling the gang here earlier that ah we knew on the farm where every single tree was, and we would watch those closely in the fall of the year.
00:14:01
Jessica
Yeah. Oh, that's cool.
00:14:08
atack2010
Such a neat tree. ah they really They really are. we really They were prized on the farm, those pawpaw trees, ah you know, wherever we could find those.
00:14:15
Jessica
And Ray's kind of, we've kind of touched on it a little bit. And so many people call as, you know, as an extension agent call and ask about planting these trees. And I told her, I was going to ask this question because it's a question that I always get. Um, we've mentioned that they're understory trees, but you know, in the orchard setting, if you go out to KSU, you're seeing them in full sun and you'll read somewhere in in some of the literature. It's like, well, when you first plant them, they need to have some sort of shade.
00:14:44
Jessica
or whatever for the first, and I might be, you know, correct correct me two years or so, then, you know, then they can go to full sun.
00:14:49
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
Mm hmm.
00:14:51
Jessica
Do you need to do that? Does it just depend on the variety? um Does it depend like just how, you know, where you get them started at earlier, you know, when they're young trees or?
00:15:02
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
Well, they are very sensitive to sunlight when they first emerge. And so like when the, you know, the seedlings when they first come up, when the leaves first emerge, ah they should have shading. Sometimes just being in a greenhouse is enough to kind of reduce the UV rays to be able to produce them. But they should be shaded until they get to about a foot and a half tall. And after that, they don't require shading. Sometimes folks will use these kind of tree shelters to kind of polyethylene tubes, grow tubes.
00:15:32
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
And those actually work real well but paul palm ah even with with the foot and a half tall pawpaw. It kind of creates a little greenhouse effect and they do well. But if they're a foot and a half tall, they don't really need shading after that.
00:15:47
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
But they do need a lot of irrigation and and they do not take challenges from weeds or grass very well.
00:15:54
Alexis
Hmm.
00:15:55
Jessica
Oh.
00:15:55
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
And I think that's a common problem is folks maybe don't control you know the grass or the weeds near their pawpaws. And they ah they will definitely outcompete a pawpaw during establishment early on.
00:16:07
Alexis
Hmm.
00:16:10
atack2010
Yeah, it almost sounds like um I mean, I'm more familiar on the like with apple orchards and things. as Some of the statements that you just made can almost be applied to to apples. But ah we we mentioned that they were a native tree.
00:16:23
atack2010
Does this native tree translate pretty well into orchard setup? I mean, as far as bringing it into orchards?
00:16:29
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
Mm hmm. It really does. In fact, you know, that's where you're going to have the most the highest yields to because, you know, and that's why a lot of folks will email um me or or my team and they'll say, oh, I've got this pawpaw patch and I never get any any fruit in that patch. You know, why is that? And most times because it is an understory tree. And so it's underneath the the canopy of the larger trees. It just doesn't get enough sunlight to produce enough fruit.
00:16:58
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
And sometimes it's also because they need to cross pollinate and they tend to sucker a lot. And that's that's one thing about homeowners, if they're going to put in a pawpaw tree, you do want to control the suckering.
00:17:09
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
And of course, especially if it's a grafted tree, because the yeah the root suckers are not going to be genetically the same as the grafted top, right?
00:17:13
atack2010
And.
00:17:15
Jessica
Mm.
00:17:18
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
And and there's a third reason you may not get a lot of fruit on your patch and that's not enough pollinators. and I've actually got a graduate student looking at that right now. We find many insects visiting in April when the flowers are open. you know it has It doesn't have the the most beautiful flower. It's kind of a red maroon flower. I actually had a person come out and they said, I want to see the papas and flower. And I thought it was going to be like a big cherry orchard, right? um
00:17:49
Alexis
Yeah.
00:17:50
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
make any
00:17:50
Jessica
Disappointed.
00:17:51
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
um Yeah, they looked over at the orchard and they said, when are they going to start flowering? And I said, well, actually they're in full bloom right now.
00:17:59
atack2010
So what does that mean?
00:17:59
Alexis
They're very unique flower though, even though.
00:18:00
atack2010
More, yeah.
00:18:01
Jessica
They are unique and unique color too.
00:18:02
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
Right.
00:18:03
atack2010
So more flies and beetles are pollinators of those? are there So that would be a lot different than apples really then as far as pollination requirements, yeah.
00:18:10
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
right yeah Yes. Yes. And all the years I've been out in the field in the, in the spring, I've only seen bee honeybees a couple of times. They really are not. ah Main pollinator, so it's flies I've got a lot of photographs of flies and lady beetles and other insects covered in pollen visiting the flowers So those are the what we think of the pollinators now, you know if you have a patch you could try and attract flies and of course, we've heard the stories of folks hauling the roadkill out there and I always thought being a scientist.
00:18:21
atack2010
Gotcha.
00:18:43
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
Maybe we should do an experiment. It could be you know possum and
00:18:47
Alexis
yeah
00:18:47
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
and raccoon, and maybe it's a factorial, so it's both, you know, together in some spots. but But yeah, some people will put chicken out there, they'll put fish, they'll put other things to try to attract more flies to their patch.
00:18:55
Alexis
Yeah.
00:19:03
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
And so that's can happen. We have a lot of goats that are KSU farms, so we have lots of flies available.
00:19:07
Jessica
Heh heh.
00:19:09
atack2010
Oh, yeah.
00:19:10
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
So yeah.
00:19:11
Alexis
Lucky you.
00:19:13
atack2010
Very interesting. Now, also like apples, with what you've described here, I'm assuming that if you have somebody that's got a prized pawpaw tree, whether native or one of the cultivated varieties, and they want to save seeds, what would you say about that based on what we've kind of been leading up to here, as far as being true to top? That wouldn't be, would it?
00:19:34
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
Correct. And and that's the way I usually describe it in the talks, you know, just like your children are not just like you, that the seeds of these varieties are also going to be, ah you know, different. They may be similar, but they're not going to be the same.
00:19:46
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
And and so, you know, some folks are selling, they'll say, improved strain seed.
00:19:47
Alexis
Mm.
00:19:52
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
And it's true that if you have seed from Susquehanna, or case you Atwood, or some of the other better varieties, you know, maybe you have a better chance of getting a better seedling, but you also may get a seedling that does not taste good, right?
00:20:06
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
And that's why why we've been cloning and horticulture a long time with our grafting techniques and and layering. And unfortunately, the only cloned technique that really works for propagating pop-up cultivars is grafting and budding.
00:20:22
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
that's the week We don't really use tissue culture.
00:20:22
atack2010
Hmm.
00:20:24
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
doesn't um Rooting of cuttings does not work. Layering does not work. But at least we do have one method of taking the the best varieties and propagate them on at least seedling rootstock.
00:20:37
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
So that's what those seeds are good for, you just mentioned. They could be good rootstock, right?
00:20:39
atack2010
rootstock. Gotcha. I wondered about that if there was a specific type of rootstock like apples that would be semi-dwarfing or dwarfing there. Is there anything like that? Or is it just and the native rootstock that you're basically grafting the sine wood onto?
00:20:55
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
Well, I actually looked at some, you know, we have some papas that have more vigor than others. um Susquehanna tends to lack vigor and sunflower tends to be vigorous and those are two pop-up varieties they're out there and So I've tried growing out seed of those and I did think I'd seen I had seen some vigor differences in the seed but once I went out to the field and and with science on those root socks there was no difference and so at this point I think I think the best point you just made is that
00:21:27
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
locally sourced seed for nurseries. So if you're buying ah from one of our local nurseries, if seed you know came from Kentucky, then that's a really good thing. It's adapted to this region. um I know a lot of nurseries sell nationally, and that's the way it is, but but locally sourced seed for rootstock is is at least going to give you a better chance of having a good establishment of your tree.
00:21:54
atack2010
And I noticed you guys have on the Kentucky State University website as far as, especially for our Kentucky listeners, you have some very good resources for locally available stock.
00:22:05
atack2010
And I'm assuming that's still the case. That's still up on the website ah that, you know, if someone's in the state, they can buy specifically from in-state sources.
00:22:09
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
Yes.
00:22:13
atack2010
Sounds like.
00:22:15
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
Yeah, that's exactly right. Yeah. And I say their names right now, but I guess I shouldn't on the podcast, but ah but we have some really good link.
00:22:21
atack2010
Hmm.
00:22:22
Alexis
We'll put a link. No, we'll put a link.
00:22:23
atack2010
Yeah, there there'll be some links, i links to everybody on there.
00:22:26
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
Yeah.
00:22:26
Alexis
Yeah. one One thing I just want to like reiterate that you mentioned was ah that they need to cross pollinate. I think a lot of people forget that. And then you also mentioned that they're ficket forming, which leads to you know the fact that you know people can be like, I have this huge patch of pawpaws and I never see any pawpaws. So ah is there you know when we think about apples cross pollinating, not every apple cross pollinates because it depends on bloom time.
00:22:52
Alexis
Are there considerations for people like wanting to go buy certain pawpaws that they should think about?
Pawpaw in Diet and Health
00:22:59
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
oh You know, there are, and I guess, you know, there's, there's several things we've actually been, uh, kind of looking into, I guess I will say the self fruitfulness of pop-up versus self incompatibility. And based on.
00:23:11
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
We're actually doing some DNA marker work on seedlings from the that come from the trees. And it's true that some low level, there will be some selfing.
00:23:23
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
It's kind of like an apple where they talk about self fruitfulness. You get a few fruit, I don't get many fruit.
00:23:26
Jessica
Mm hmm.
00:23:28
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
and And that's probably the case with a number of pop-up varieties, but you're going to get the highest fruit set with cross pollination. We don't really have Really good recommendations for all the pop-up varieties right now is, you know, which would be best pollinators for which.
00:23:44
Alexis
Mhmm. Mm.
00:23:46
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
But the the rule of thumb is to plant at least three varieties. That's that way you're maximizing the possibility of having good crossing between the trees and getting high fruits up.
00:23:59
Alexis
i'm a I have to brag for a second. When I was an agent, ah probably, let's see, I don't know, eight years ago, I did a class on PawPaws as a like brand new agent. And it was like one of the biggest classes I ever did and was so exciting as someone who hadn't been there for very long. And ah we did a whole series of Garden of Table, which you can talk about, sort of the like, okay, you picked it, it's part of it here in a sec, but ah people,
00:24:25
Alexis
probably about two years ago, started bringing in a couple people started bringing in like things that they made from Papa's and it was it was so rewarding and they were so excited because they we gave them trees that and some seed as well that we got from you all and some recipes that we got from Kentucky State and they were just so excited when they started and they would bring us into the extension office like treats little Papa treats and I can tell you there is such thing as eating too much Papa ah the body sometimes we'll redirect to that, but fun fact.
00:24:58
atack2010
Sounds like somebody ate a lot of poppos, Alexis.
00:24:59
Alexis
ah Yeah, I have ex-
00:25:00
Jessica
Somebody has experience.
00:25:01
atack2010
Yeah.
00:25:02
Brett
i reject I reject the premise. you know we had a couple A couple of ah couple of months ago we had the question or a couple weeks ago, we had the question of how many peaches is too many peaches for one person to eat.
00:25:04
atack2010
Yeah, I reject your premise.
00:25:12
Alexis
Yeah. yeah
00:25:13
Brett
and It was entirely entirely hypothetical, not based on my own experience of worrying as I approach the human limit.
00:25:15
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
Mm hmm.
00:25:16
Alexis
um
00:25:19
Brett
but
00:25:21
Alexis
No, there is, there is a human limit because I believe, if I remember correctly, we learned pop-alls are ah like a bit of a diuretic.
00:25:21
Brett
yeah
00:25:28
Alexis
Is that correct? Or something along those lines?
00:25:30
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
if If you eat, yeah, it's just like anything else, if you eat enough of them, they may have that effect.
00:25:34
atack2010
Yeah.
00:25:36
Alexis
Yeah.
00:25:37
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
um I will say, you know, just in terms of of use of Popeye, you know, a lot of times we're extracting the pulp out, we're using the pulp in pie and jams, ice cream, makes great ice cream, of course.
00:25:51
Alexis
Mm, it
00:25:53
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
One thing that folks have been trying is trying to make a fruit leather or freeze drying the fruit.
00:25:56
Alexis
Mm.
00:25:58
Jessica
Hmm.
00:25:59
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
And um I'm just going to tell you in the audience, that's not something you should do with pop-up because for some reason, and we don't really understand why, we think it's some kind of oxidation event.
00:26:11
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
It kind of will make you sick to your stomach then to eat leather or freeze dry pop-up.
00:26:13
Jessica
Oh.
00:26:17
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
And and ah and that you can eat 10 times or a hundred times that amount fresh.
00:26:22
atack2010
Hmm interesting You better not you can sell it once Yeah, yeah Yeah, well you mentioned Alexis what eight years is that the typical time from?
00:26:22
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
But when you eat it freeze dried or as a leather, it tends to make your stomach say, and I think it's some kind of oxidation event of, of, of, you know, it's it's a very rich fruit.
00:26:23
Alexis
Huh.
00:26:32
Alexis
Uh-huh.
00:26:33
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
Some things going on there, but that's one thing people ask me, can I make a fruit leather and sell it? And I'm going to say, no, you probably shouldn't. Right.
00:26:42
Alexis
Yeah, you can settle as a dietary supplement.
00:26:42
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
Right. Yes. Yes. Yeah.
00:26:51
atack2010
I know it's probably quicker from sapling rather than seed, but is that a typical production window around six to eight years as far as getting pawpaw that's ah you know up to burying age?
00:27:02
Alexis
Yeah, we these are from plants. So is that yeah.
00:27:04
atack2010
From plants, gotcha, so around that time then, gotcha. Yeah, we get that question some.
00:27:08
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
yeah they have to go
00:27:10
atack2010
Yeah, around.
00:27:10
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
through a period of juvenility you know
00:27:12
atack2010
Yeah, so if someone wanted to, you've already mentioned several things, several great tips for someone that may want to put pawpaws at home, you know, three varieties, but any comments on, you know, and water those when they're young, of course, that's pretty common recommendation.
00:27:28
atack2010
But how about spacing? If you're, if you're going to lay out, like, do you have to worry about things like frost and specific spacing?
00:27:33
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
Yeah, they have to go through a period of juvenile.
00:27:35
atack2010
If someone's going to put out a small planting at home or even a commercial planting, for that matter.
00:27:40
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
sure I think the you know the real thumb is kind of what you would do with with other tree fruit like apples or peaches probably stands for location for Pawpaw. You don't want to go down to the lowest area down by the creek. We're all in the valley because that's where all the cold air is going to flow and you might lose your blossoms to frost in the spring. but Otherwise, um yeah we we usually recommend eight feet between trees and about 14 to 16 feet between rows. um really They really do form almost a hedge at maturity. and And that's probably not a bad thing because they are kind of they are native understory tree. If they're getting a little shading from the the other hedge of paw paws next to them, that's probably not a bad thing.
00:28:32
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
and And so you can have about 295 trees per acre at that spacing. and And I guess that for the homeowner, you really don't wanna go more than, you don't wanna, eight foot spacing would be a good thing, but you don't wanna have it be more than the about 50 feet or 75 feet because if that fly you know is gonna make it through one tree to another, you don't want it to get lost all the way, right?
00:28:44
Alexis
Mmhmm.
00:28:51
atack2010
Oh, yeah.
00:28:52
Jessica
Mm hmm.
00:28:54
atack2010
Gotcha.
00:28:56
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
They're lethargic pollinators.
00:28:57
atack2010
Because the ah type of pollinator that's, which is different, that is a different thing ah to appreciate is that it is a different kind of pollination scenario.
00:28:58
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
you
00:29:06
atack2010
So yeah, don't go too far from one tree to the other. Yeah, makes perfect sense, I guess.
00:29:12
Alexis
they're They're a really pretty landscape tree.
00:29:15
atack2010
Yeah.
00:29:16
Alexis
I've done a lot on like ah like edible landscapes and just talking to people about like native landscapes and stuff like that.
00:29:16
atack2010
and
00:29:22
Alexis
And even for people who necessarily don't want their fruit, it's still like a really nice tree, I think, an alternative to you know just a redbud or a dogwood or something.
00:29:27
atack2010
a
00:29:31
Alexis
The fall color on those is really beautiful. um
00:29:35
atack2010
And I've seen those kind of pyramid shaped, but i do and I've seen them both pruned and unpruned in an orchard setting. Is there any comment there as far as central leader versus open vase versus not touching them much at all?
00:29:49
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
So we we did actually have an experiment where we looked at
Pawpaw Tree Management
00:29:52
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
central leader training versus, you know, basically minimal pruning, we'll call it.
00:29:52
Alexis
Love it.
00:29:54
atack2010
Awesome.
00:29:55
Alexis
Data!
00:29:57
atack2010
Great.
00:29:58
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
And, and so that it central leader is the best way to form a tree that's not going to be damaged in wind, because otherwise with the minimally pruned trees, they really will get these kind of narrow branch angles.
00:30:13
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
And they'll tend to, you know, get wind damage because that's one problem with papa is you might get two big fruit clusters on one limb and there'll be no fruit clusters on the other limbs of the tree right and then the wind comes and it breaks that branch and so yeah so yeah you want to have a you know strong branching also you know the central leader is a good way to do that it really is um it delays flowering by maybe a year but i think it's you know most of the flowering but it's worth worth that time yeah
00:30:24
Alexis
their own balance.
00:30:35
atack2010
Gotcha.
00:30:43
Jessica
worth it in the long run to do that.
00:30:46
Alexis
so
00:30:46
atack2010
And I'll go ahead, Alexis.
00:30:48
Alexis
Well, um, you know, we've kind of hinted at the ways you use Papa and what is the, I guess, what is the biggest drawback? Like why isn't it a bigger, you know, commercially available fruit for those people who don't have experience.
00:31:05
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
Right. Well, Pawpaw's biggest problem is still the same problem that was around, probably back around the turn of around 1915 when they but they were having contests trying to find the best Pawpaw.
00:31:19
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
It's very perishable and you know, it basically um It's gonna last maybe at best a week at room temperature and and it's more like forward at three to four days when it's ripe and you know, it's just it's just it's It needs to be refrigerated and even once refrigerated we usually keep them in plastic bags so they don't respire too much or transpire too much and and then maybe last two weeks and
00:31:21
Alexis
Mm hmm.
00:31:46
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
So it's, luckily you do harvest, though I think we talked about in April, they flower basically, flower April into May, the same tree will flower over a long period of time. And hence you're going to be harvesting fruit over a long period of time. you know Usually it's starting last week, August through September, but you will have your tails and your and you're in your concentration of ripening. But basically it's going to be a limited window of when you can actually eat.
00:32:15
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
the fruit. So processing is really the future for pawpaw. Even in processing, you have to get the fruit to the the processing unit and they do get bruised if you're not careful, right?
00:32:25
atack2010
Yeah, quickly.
00:32:27
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
That's not a problem.
00:32:27
Alexis
Yeah.
00:32:27
atack2010
Yeah.
00:32:27
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
Bruising causes off flavors. So that's that's really the biggest challenge right now with pawpaw is trying to you know keep the fruit longer. And I've got a student who's looking at controlled atmosphere right now trying to look at storage again.
00:32:43
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
um And then we'd like to find a firm pawpaw, one that doesn't bruise very readily. And there's one that's a little firmer than others, and that's a seskohana, but it's not firm enough yet.
00:32:57
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
It still has damage. if it you can pack You can pack these in bubble wrap, you can put them in foam, and they're still gonna, you know, if you shoot them one of the overnight express folks, it's still gonna have some damage.
00:32:59
atack2010
Ugh.
00:33:12
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
You know, it's just a very, ah fragile fruit when it gets ripe and that's so that's kind of the the challenge with Papa is that it's just like your ah tree ripen peach you know you don't ship that very far either right same thing
00:33:26
Jessica
Yeah so So when harvesting right we all heard the you know going out picking up Paul Paul's put in my pocket kind of thing You know, most people are talking about like they don't harvest them until they see them hit the ground but in your situation they get a more orchard situation are you guys a
00:33:28
atack2010
And it seems like the flesh of a pawpaw is a, it's almost like an avocado. It's without that harder harder round on there.
00:33:33
Alexis
Or like.
00:33:35
atack2010
So yes, so they go down quick.
00:33:52
Jessica
Like how are you, you know, they're so fragile, right? You don't want to like grab them and squeeze them and call them the bruise. And are you just looking for like color change or are you just banking on getting ones that fall or how are you guys out there harvesting them?
00:34:06
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
so So we go out every Monday, Wednesday, Friday, and we we do go through the tree. We kind of give it a little shake sometimes, but otherwise we're going to go through and we are going to kind of feel for softness and it's not wonderful.
00:34:19
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
And, you know, I wish we had a reliable color break in some of these varieties. Some never turn yellow at all, right? And they're still soft.
00:34:26
Jessica
Okay.
00:34:26
atack2010
Yeah.
00:34:26
Alexis
yeah Rude.
00:34:29
Jessica
How difficult.
00:34:29
atack2010
Yeah.
00:34:29
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
But wish we had that, really do.
00:34:33
atack2010
And so is it the firmness that's the best? I mean, that's one of the questions we commonly get from homeowners. ah they They'll ask, is it the firmness or the color that we should rely on more? I mean, if you were talking to a homeowner, would you go by the firmness then as a more reliable indicator?
00:34:46
Jessica
Okay.
00:34:47
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
Absolutely.
00:34:48
atack2010
Yeah.
00:34:48
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
Yep, it's firmness.
00:34:48
atack2010
Gotcha.
00:34:49
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
you
00:34:49
atack2010
Yeah. My experience was with, ah if you do have one that does turn dark as it gets older and they eventually will, I mean, by that time they're going to hit the ground. They're going to be like me when I was growing up.
00:35:01
atack2010
I would be in the bushes fighting raccoons and possums for the pawpaws and it's not a good rumble match. ah I was always, ah I would come and see the wildlife and they would scurry away and I'd see all the pawpaws laying on the ground and that was not a good situation to be in.
00:35:15
atack2010
If I'd have known then what I now now know from you, I would have been much better off. I would have been testing those when they're up in the tree with my, I guess, get just giving them a little squeeze to to see if they're getting soft.
00:35:26
atack2010
Yeah, would have been much better sounds like.
00:35:27
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
Yeah.
00:35:29
atack2010
Yeah.
00:35:29
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
Yeah. And some people like them when they, you know, it's just like a banana when they really get very ripe and they'll turn brown and they do get kind of a caramel flavor at that point, which some people really like and others don't like.
00:35:34
Jessica
Mm hmm.
00:35:44
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
And so that's a almost a change of the pop off flavor as it over ripens too. But, um, but yeah, best, best way to do it do it is actually go through the tree and get the softening ones and then maybe for a know let further ripen and soften inside on your kitchen table.
00:36:05
Alexis
It's a good way to keep them away from the raccoons and possums and squirrels and everybody and their brother who loves pawpaws.
00:36:10
atack2010
Yeah.
00:36:10
Jessica
Mm hmm.
00:36:11
atack2010
You know, as much as wildlife likes those, I never saw deer eat pawpaws. Do deer really eat pawpaws? I see the smaller critters, but not deer.
00:36:17
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
the
00:36:20
atack2010
I don't know if that's just something I was observing falsely or is that the case?
00:36:24
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
they They will eat the fruit if offered, they won't seek it out.
00:36:26
atack2010
They will. Hmm.
00:36:28
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
I knew a person who had ah had planted a pawpaw orchard and unfortunately it was a drought and they had, um you know, micro sprinkler irrigation on the pawpaw, so they were green.
00:36:42
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
And so the deer, of course, went through the field and ate anything green. And so they destroyed his papa orchard. So they will do that. They will rut you know the horns on the small trees. They will do that. That's probably the most damage that you will have from deer is them running their antlers on the tree and girdling it.
00:37:01
atack2010
I never did understand why deer just absolutely love specifically pawpaw trees. Is it something about the branching structure? or what But they they will seek out. It seems like if there's 20 trees, they'll go to the pawpaw every time.
00:37:13
atack2010
It's interesting that deer just love, yeah, I love those.
00:37:14
Alexis
The Revon.
00:37:17
atack2010
I mean, so that's a problem. Any other common problems that potential future growers or current growers or homeowners should watch out for um on Pawpaws.
00:37:25
Alexis
Mmhmm.
00:37:27
atack2010
I see a lot of trunks painted white and they seem to be fairly thin skinned. Is there a reason for that, for the painting of the trunks?
00:37:33
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
Yeah. Yeah. and And actually that's something that we've really encountered as a basically a Southwest injury and Papa was very susceptible to that. So for those who don't know what that is, it's in the wintertime, you know, if your tree is hardened off, say in February, but then you get a really sunny day and it warms up one side of the, of the trunk and that D hardens that, that, that part of the truck basically. And then it'll plunge down to some cold temperature.
00:38:01
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
And it will actually kill then some of those cells of the cambial layer on that part of the tree. So the idea is if you paint the trunk white, it'll reflect some of that sunlight and it won't warm up as much.
00:38:15
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
And so you won't lose that cold herniness to that side of the tree. Otherwise it will die and you'll basically girdles the tree. So you get a lot of damage that way.
00:38:22
atack2010
Mmhmm.
00:38:24
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
Uh, the only real, I think, I think pop-up now is it's being grown in larger and larger amounts. Like any monoculture, we will have more insect and disease issues pop up, but right now there's only two major issues I will say. And that's the file will stick to the, it's a black spot that shows up on the leaves and the fruit. It just detracts from the appearance. Usually not usually a problem, but.
00:38:50
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
If it's really a wet year, it will kind of have black spawn on the fruit, and you'll get cracking sometimes then that's that's battle around the fruit.
00:38:55
Alexis
Mm-hmm. Hmm.
00:39:00
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
And ah the other problem is ah Asian ambrosia beetle. Now, luckily, it's it's not been a common thing, but we have had a number of growers ah where Asian ambrosia beetle will go in.
00:39:13
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
And it'll it'll you know they what they'll do is they'll go into the tree, they'll lay eggs, they bring with an ambrosia fungus that the young feed on, and then that goes in and causes a wilt to the tree.
00:39:25
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
So I found a tree dying just from one entry point even.
00:39:29
Alexis
Hmm.
00:39:29
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
And so it it is a problem across in the nursery industry too, but um it's very devastating to Papa. and Now, luckily, There have been a couple of couple of plantings in Kentucky that have had that happen, but then um you know it's been able to be controlled, and but it's it's a tough one.
00:39:47
Jessica
Thank you.
00:39:48
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
It really will cause a lot of damage.
00:39:51
Alexis
Hmm. That's scary.
00:39:54
Brett
Well, so I find myself in this situation quite a lot. And and here we are again, me with four plant nerds. ah And here I am as more of a person nerd or maybe just a general purpose nerd, I don't know. But ah i'm if you're you know if you're talking to somebody who's maybe not heard of PawPaw or they're they're thinking about it or they've heard about it and they don't understand.
Pawpaw's Unique Appeal
00:40:18
Brett
i'm I'm just curious what you think, and and this is open to anybody, what you think. ah i I perceive that the pawpaw kind of captures the imagination of a lot of people or the enthusiasm of a lot of people. I think that there's crossovers into, as as ah Alexis mentioned, as a as a landscape plant or as an option for a small tree small to medium tree in you know around your house. I've seen it at at tree sales and tree giveaways and stuff like that.
00:40:46
Brett
but then also about the fruit, ah the history. I think that there's a, I describe it as an almost botanical resistance to commodification that I think people, it gives people something that they really are missing in life.
00:40:58
Brett
Like it feels it's like a distinctly human tree. What do you all think? Like, why do you think it is that people get so excited about Paw Paw? I mean, I'm not, I'm not questioning it.
00:41:08
atack2010
i mean
00:41:08
Brett
I'm, I'm,
00:41:09
atack2010
Banana mango, Brett, banana mango. To me, I mean, it's like a banana mango. I mean, I love the flavor of it, but you're right. It's, so we we get a lots of, yeah, it's kind of like a tropical fruit, except it's right here at home.
00:41:16
Jessica
tropical field.
00:41:21
atack2010
And we have a lot of people, Brett, that from that ankle you're approaching the, you know, that question from is they love the fact that it's a native and they love the, they love that, you know, it's something you know that they can grow as such.
00:41:33
atack2010
So not only does it taste good, it's, it's a native tree. So win-win there. Yeah.
00:41:38
Jessica
It's native. It's unique. You can't find it ever any, you know, you can't find it everywhere. You can't just go to the grocery and find it. You know, occasionally at this time of year, like I've seen where some like whole food, like kind of stores have been advertising it right now.
00:41:51
Jessica
But besides that, so it's kind of special. And somebody's like, Oh, I have paw paws. Right.
00:41:56
atack2010
Yeah, it's something, yeah, it's unique.
00:41:57
Jessica
And people get excited about it because it's not something as, you know, so-and-so has an apple tree.
00:41:59
atack2010
Yeah.
00:42:03
Jessica
Well, my neighbor has an apple tree. And so, you know, like, right.
00:42:06
Alexis
It's like the pumpkin spice of fruit.
00:42:06
atack2010
Pawpaws are different. Yeah.
00:42:09
Alexis
People are just pumped about it.
00:42:10
Jessica
There just is the season for it.
00:42:10
atack2010
Yeah. It's almost like its own club. ah People that know Pawpaws, they know Pawpaws. They seek out the ice cream at the KSU events and things.
00:42:22
atack2010
they They seek out and know how to use, and you know they know a variety of recipes, like for breads. and And I had someone inform me that any recipe that pretty much calls for banana, they use pop-all.
00:42:32
atack2010
If they can get the pop-all paste, and they've extracted that out, they use that paste ah for any recipe for bananas.
00:42:33
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
Mm hmm.
00:42:39
atack2010
I thought that was that was pretty neat. so and i' just That'd probably make some interesting banana bread, except pop-all bread. Has anybody had anything like that? Like the bread made out of that?
00:42:47
Alexis
Yes. hey my Hence the reason dietary issues.
00:42:48
atack2010
and I have not. I have not. I am lacking.
00:42:52
Jessica
yeah
00:42:52
atack2010
I can't believe I've not had that product.
00:42:55
Jessica
I've had the jam before and of course the ice cream.
00:42:57
atack2010
Jam? Yeah. Mm-hmm. Oh, the ice cream is so good.
00:43:00
Jessica
who
00:43:01
atack2010
It's very good.
00:43:02
Alexis
What's your favorite way to enjoy Papa? Dr. Pompa.
00:43:06
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
Well, I really do think it's probably out in the field. I mean, sometimes we would talk about when it's really warm and you have a ripe pop on, you cut it open and you taste it. It is almost a euphoric experience sometimes so we've kind of jokingly said is there some type of substance here you know because it's really tastes that good and and it's just you know something about the flavor profile and the in the aromatics in the warmth you know it really is but it is truly a pleasure to work with the enthusiasts of papa there are many many very enthusiastic
00:43:30
atack2010
good
00:43:35
Alexis
Mm.
00:43:47
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
Pawpaw hunters out there and and people are planting Pawpaws. And so it has been a pleasure ah ah to be around them.
00:43:52
atack2010
It's
00:43:55
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
Lots of enthusiasm, ah lots of hope, and it really is almost a a following.
00:43:56
atack2010
good.
00:44:02
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
you know And next year we're gonna have a are our fifth international Pawpaw conference and we've we've spaced it so you can go to the Ohio Pawpaw Festival first then come to our conference and then go on to the Ohio Pop Off Festival.
00:44:20
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
So if it's almost like a, you know, like the great event tours, you know, you can do that if you'd like to know.
00:44:22
atack2010
Papa Luzza. I love it.
00:44:27
Alexis
Brilliant.
00:44:28
atack2010
That's amazing. Yeah. So you're going to get a, you're going to get a crowd that's just going to like just binge Papa's for a period of time.
00:44:29
Alexis
Well done.
00:44:35
Brett
Well, i'm I'm wondering, you know, I don't know where you are in the planning, but if that you could maybe work in in a special feature event of, uh, Ray wrestling raccoons as part of the pop off festival, uh, that could, that could draw, it I mean, I would, I would definitely, uh, you know, be, yeah.
00:44:36
atack2010
That's amazing.
00:44:46
atack2010
Yes.
00:44:49
Alexis
I'd pay money for that. Yeah, absolutely.
00:44:51
Jessica
I would go to that.
00:44:52
atack2010
And I will sign the disclaimer that all of my shots are up to date.
00:44:52
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
Yeah.
00:44:52
Brett
What.
00:44:55
atack2010
I will sign that if I need to.
00:44:56
Jessica
That'll be very important for the raccoons, you know?
00:44:58
Brett
Well,
00:44:58
atack2010
Yeah, that would be very important for the raccoons and possums.
00:44:58
Jessica
They'll probably be concerned about that.
00:45:00
atack2010
Yes, yes, absolutely.
00:45:01
Brett
well
00:45:01
Jessica
I would be concerned.
00:45:03
Brett
you ah You alluded to this, but I just want to make sure we emphasize you know that that Kentucky State University and and Dr. Pompers specifically are nationally and internationally known, like recognized as leaders in this field of exploring pawpaws and maintaining them and and exploring the the biodiversity, but also ah just sort of sharing the magic that is these trees. And that that's something that's really It's awesome because you know as we're all, again, ah extension folks, as you know, and the cooperative extension system in Kentucky is Kentucky State University and University of Kentucky. So being able to have that kind of brand, i fruit brand, I guess, that brand visibility or that that renown, it's really, really cool to be, I mean, frankly, to be known for something besides bourbon and horses in Kentucky. It's really it's something I really value and I've always appreciated.
00:45:57
Brett
about about KSU and about the other work that you've done, Dr. Pompers. So um yeah, I just wanted to make sure we shot that out explicitly and loudly and as many times as we can that we have something really special in in that regard here.
00:46:09
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
Well thank you.
00:46:09
Alexis
There might not be pop-up ice cream without you.
00:46:10
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
thank Thank you for the kind words.
00:46:13
atack2010
I mean, I cannot imagine what the first, what the the Spaniards or who whatnot came over and ah observed Native Americans and they were the first, you know, in the 1500s and tried this thing and they're like, what in the world is this magical fruit? It's like the, not the fountain of youth, but maybe the fountain of fruit. I don't know. But I imagine that that would be having not tasted anything like that. I've not tasted anything close to Popeyes really. It's that unique. It's such a great product. So yeah.
00:46:41
atack2010
I could see, wow, these cultures, I guess the history goes back a long way, doesn't it? As far as the history of, you know, pawpaw consumption, that goes way back, doesn't it?
Pawpaw's History and Future
00:46:51
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
Yeah, I mean, you can go back and, you know, DeSoto wrote about, yeah, you know, seeing the inn Native Americans eating papa and go back to Lewis and Clark writing in their journal how papas helped, you know, when they were short on rations and when they're coming back from Oregon that they ate papas.
00:46:55
atack2010
wow
00:47:07
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
And and there's some, some of the early settlers ah wrote about papas and how eating papas was a pleasure. So there's, yeah, there's definitely a,
00:47:18
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
a tie back in history and there's a Chris Daniel Boone, there's lots of folks who are purported Pawpaw fans but it's there's definitely a history there and there's a Kentucky history. I usually talk about this you know Pawpaw is in a lot of different things if you go to the historical marker that talks about the Hatfield McCoy feud there's actually a historical marker because ah as part of that some of the folks were actually tied to pawpaw trees as part of that um a family feud and so that's actually on the historical marker and so I mean there's this pawpaw is in a lot of different places in their history and I guess luckily for most of it it's good because it's the pawpaw fruit is what we're worried about but there's a yeah it's it's a very interesting fruit it has a lot of
00:48:11
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
A lot of history. And and I guess that's what you know people look at. and The promise is so strong. And that's why I think why people are so enthusiastic about Paw Paw. It's so unique.
00:48:23
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
And they want to take it to that next level, whether it's going to be and another added added food item and as a drink or ah ice cream or whatever that we see commercially.
00:48:26
Jessica
Mm-hm.
00:48:34
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
And it's really just a, a cultivar or a few methods away from actually probably trying to take it larger. But as you talked about earlier, there's a lot of people who don't want it to get any bigger than it is right now, because it's this unique fruit that people like having at this stage.
00:48:50
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
And, and it has a lot of allure for that.
00:48:53
atack2010
Please tell me that there's a contest somewhere either in the US s or abroad of a pawpaw seed spitting contest. ah Please tell me that. I would love because those seeds are pretty epic and but they can be in certain, you know, types of pawpaw I guess.
00:49:07
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
You know, I think they may actually, you know, at the Ohio Festival.
00:49:07
Jessica
It makes sense to have it at one of those festivals.
00:49:09
atack2010
Oh, I need to look it up. I need to look that up. Yeah. Cause as a, as a, as a king, yeah.
00:49:15
Brett
if if they don't all this training is goingnna have been for nothing ray
00:49:18
atack2010
Nothing. I was like, I'm going to be so, if I'm the only one, I'm going to be so disappointed. and That's how I'd eat them as a kid. I'd pop the whole thing in my mouth and you work around the seeds and extract naturally in your mouth, all the good stuff.
00:49:30
atack2010
And then you just start rapid fire, spitting those things at your nearest sibling or tree. Just whatever. Yeah. Yeah. So little tidbit there. You're welcome.
00:49:42
Alexis
There's a lot of stories about Ray like being mean to his brothers on this podcast.
00:49:46
atack2010
Yeah, there is.
00:49:46
Alexis
I feel like we need to get Frankie on here to tell us all the mean things you did to him.
00:49:48
atack2010
I also threw tomatoes at them too. We threw tomatoes at each other, so.
00:49:51
Jessica
So you could speak the truth on what really happened, right?
00:49:55
atack2010
Yeah, they know better.
00:49:55
Brett
My favorite way to eat tomatoes is throwing them at my brother.
00:49:58
atack2010
Yes, but my that's my favorite form of consumption.
00:50:00
Brett
Whoa.
00:50:02
atack2010
And paw paws, now you know. So, so cool.
00:50:04
Alexis
Now you know.
00:50:05
atack2010
The discussion, I knew it would be a cool discussion today on paw paws. It truly is a unique thing when you mention it. People either don't know what they are or they very well know what they are. So yeah, it's pretty cool. Pretty cool.
00:50:18
Alexis
Cool. Well, any lasting thoughts from you, Dr. Pumper, that people might want to know about what you're doing or pop-offs in general, tips and tricks, anything just to kind of ah set ah set us off on the right path?
00:50:26
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
That's it.
00:50:34
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
Well, I, you know, I'd encourage anybody who hasn't had a pawpaw to sequin out and try it and, you know, find out what we're talking about. I think that that's a ah first step. And there are a lot of nurseries out there selling pawpaws now. So they are expensive because there's such demand, but I think it's worth, you know, buying some grafted trees and experimenting at your house or farm with a few trees and and seeing what it's all about. But I hope you'll you'll take advantage of the you know and the website at KSU and come out to our third Thursdays. And as I said, you can we have the International Pop-Up Conference coming out coming up. But you know i'm I'm excited about Pop-Up. I think we're going to have a couple of new varieties released next year to add to our KSU Atwood, KSU Benson, KSU Chappelle.
00:51:23
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
right now, and I think we'll have two more that we're going to release. And so that will be next year, but, you know, I'm, I'm, uh, happy, happy about Papa. And, uh, as I said, most of the time I would rather be Papa hunting and that's, that's, that's what I'm doing.
00:51:39
Alexis
That is awesome. Well, we will make sure to put a link to that awesome website. I know that as agents, all of us use that extensively when trying to teach and do our best ah with all the great information you had out there. And I know it really guided anytime I had ah questions asked or programs I wanted to do. So I'm just really grateful that you all have such awesome information and are kind of the lead ah for that information. And I mean, there's there's Papa trees that say KSU in the name. That's pretty impressive in my mind. And there's multiple of them. That's that's big time. All right. In my opinion. But so we're really grateful for all that. We'll make sure to put that in there. ah if If they have if people have very specific questions, maybe they're wanting to put in commercial um other than that third Thursday. ah Is there ah the best way to get contact with your team?
00:52:33
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
Uh, you know, via emails, probably the best, you know, it's Kirk dot pomper at kysu.edu.
00:52:35
Alexis
She's
00:52:38
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
And of course, Sherry Crabtree has been with me about 25 years.
00:52:42
Alexis
wonderful.
00:52:42
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
She's a research and extension associate in horticulture, working with Popoff all that time. And then Jeremy Lowe, uh, is also a research associate here. So if you want to email any of us, our web, our emails on the website also, uh, we'd be happy to get back to you via email and, uh, yeah.
00:53:01
kirk_pomper_kysu_edu
Just reach out to us and or you'll see us at one of these events and we'll we'll be able to talk to you there.
00:53:07
Alexis
I mean, who wouldn't want to go to one of those events? Because there's usually taste testing involved, so highly recommend ah check it checking that out. ah But I believe that is all we have for you today. And we hope that as we grow this podcast, you will grow with us and maybe grow some pawpaws while you're at it. Thanks for being here, y'all.