Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Organic Matter - The Unsung Hero of Healthy Soil
71 Plays30 days ago
In this episode, we dive deep into the often-overlooked but incredibly crucial component of healthy soil: organic matter. Discover why it's the lifeblood of your garden or farm. We'll discuss:
- What is soil organic matter? A breakdown of its components and benefits.
- Why is it important? The role it plays in nutrient cycling, water retention, and soil structure.
- How to increase organic matter: Practical tips for improving soil health through composting, cover crops, and other methods.
- Common misconceptions: Debunking myths about organic matter and its impact on plants.
ATTRA Episode 326: Exploring Soil Organic Matter with Dr. Johannes Lehmann
Soil organic matter in cropping systems
Advanced Soil Organic Matter Management
Priming for Productionby Natalie Lounsbury (podcast mention)
Questions/Comments/Feedback/Suggestions for Topics: [email protected]
Recommended
Transcript
Cider and Weather in Kentucky
00:00:17
Alexis
Okay, first question. Has anybody had their false cider yet? Because I realize I have been lacking in that department.
00:00:25
atack2010
No, I've had fall apple butter made homemade by a lovely neighbor that brought that over, but not a cider.
00:00:30
Alexis
Yum.
00:00:31
Jessica
Yes, I had some at our horticulture agent training at the beginning of September and it was delicious.
00:00:35
Alexis
Jelly.
00:00:38
Alexis
Jelly. I need to go get some of that.
00:00:39
Jessica
But I got cold cider because it's still pretty hot outside.
00:00:42
Alexis
In September.
00:00:43
Jessica
It was at the time.
Peach Nectar and Jokes
00:00:45
atack2010
It's cooled off a great deal in Kentucky here lately, so it's I see the cider consumption going way, way up.
00:00:51
Alexis
the bell curve of cider consumption throughout the year.
00:00:53
Jessica
I've been going from like cold to warm, right?
00:00:54
atack2010
Yes.
00:00:54
Brett
I had the had Peach Nectar earlier this year for the first time.
00:00:57
atack2010
Yeah.
00:01:00
Jessica
o Oh my gosh.
00:01:00
Alexis
I would say like aren't you the the the peach ah bandit, like you're, you love peaches, am I right?
00:01:00
Brett
and I don't know why I said for the first time because it wasn't, but... um What?
00:01:03
atack2010
First time this year?
00:01:11
Brett
yeah I'm not a bandit.
00:01:11
atack2010
Why do you have to bring up old stuff, Alexis?
00:01:12
Brett
I pay for it. I may eat them in large volumes, but I'm not a criminal.
00:01:13
Alexis
Well, I mean like, I'm not a girl.
00:01:16
atack2010
The peach thief just goes straight to the matter.
00:01:17
Jessica
Do you buy them in bulk, Brett?
00:01:19
Alexis
Annie might consider
Egg Consumption Limits
00:01:20
Alexis
you the peach bandit.
00:01:20
Brett
I do. Oh, this might this might predate ah Jessica joining the pod.
00:01:24
Jessica
Yeah. Do you buy them in bulk because my father-in-law visits North Carolina quite often and he will bring them to us in bulk. So I will suddenly just like, you know, I get bulk pumpkins this time of year during the summer, I will get bulk amounts of peaches and it is wonderful.
00:01:36
Alexis
you
00:01:41
Jessica
And I made peach preserves for the first time this summer.
00:01:43
atack2010
Nice.
00:01:44
Jessica
And where have I been my entire life? That's the, like the best stuff.
00:01:46
Brett
Wow.
00:01:46
Alexis
What I doing with my time all of these years?
00:01:49
Jessica
It's just a canned peach pie, basically that you put on toast and it's amazing.
00:01:51
Alexis
yeah
00:01:54
Brett
Well, I don't, I don't buy them in like in bulk for farmers.
00:01:55
Alexis
Fun fact, I'm sitting at that.
00:01:58
Brett
Like farmers have a different kind of definition of what bulk is, but for like the normal American consumer, I'd earlier in the year, I, ah I opened one of the podcasts by asking how many peaches is too many peaches to eat?
00:02:02
atack2010
Yes.
00:02:10
Brett
Like in one go.
00:02:12
atack2010
And most of us were horrified.
00:02:12
Brett
And I got some, I got some judgmental looks, you know, some, cause I've eaten.
00:02:15
Jessica
Oh.
00:02:18
Brett
Yeah. I can go pretty hard on some peaches sometimes. And, um, I pay a limit of the peach bandit as a result.
00:02:21
Alexis
ah some eggs as well i recently learned some eggs as well as i recently learned but but let let me just i'll ask the question in in a sitting how many eggs do you think you could eat without getting sick could eat not would like to
00:02:24
Brett
What'd you say?
00:02:27
Brett
Oh man, we don't have to tell stories out of...
00:02:29
atack2010
Hopefully, ah out of context and conversation.
00:02:29
Jessica
How many eggs do you eat?
00:02:32
Brett
What's that?
00:02:34
Jessica
I need to know now.
00:02:37
Brett
Oh gosh.
00:02:41
Brett
Could, not, would like to.
00:02:42
Jessica
Hmm.
00:02:44
Brett
Prepared however you want.
00:02:44
atack2010
Are the deviled eggs?
00:02:45
Alexis
Yeah, however you want.
00:02:46
atack2010
The game changes. The game changes.
00:02:47
Alexis
See, that's exactly what I said, right?
00:02:49
Brett
What? That doesn't make any sense to me, but um mean that's fine, you can...
00:02:49
Alexis
I was like, devil eggs, 20.
00:02:51
atack2010
Hey, Brett, it's like wetting the hot dog bun in during the competition and eating it. Once you make the egg into a deviled egg, it is much more palatable.
Humorous Egg Comparisons
00:03:00
Brett
So each each, but each half would only count as a half.
00:03:00
atack2010
you
00:03:03
Brett
So if you ate two deviled eggs, that'd be one.
00:03:03
Alexis
Right.
00:03:04
atack2010
Oh, oh.
00:03:05
Jessica
That's only one egg, yeah.
00:03:05
Alexis
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:03:06
atack2010
Yeah, true, true, true.
00:03:07
Alexis
I'm saying 20 full eggs, so like 40 deviled eggs.
00:03:09
atack2010
Oh, my gosh.
00:03:10
Jessica
You can eat 40 deviled eggs.
00:03:10
atack2010
What are you, an anaconda?
00:03:12
Alexis
I mean, it's...
00:03:14
Brett
that This is moving into what I would consider a reasonable possibility.
00:03:15
Jessica
I don't know. we
00:03:18
Brett
people Sometimes people are like, I don't know, six. Six eggs would be, my tummy would, it'd be very funny if you said six now, Jessica, but my tummy gets two full after six.
00:03:22
Jessica
We... I think... little scrambled eggs.
00:03:28
Brett
What?
00:03:28
Jessica
Right? Scrambled eggs? I'm trying to think.
00:03:30
Brett
Scrambled.
00:03:30
Jessica
like We scramble like at least six or more every morning.
00:03:36
atack2010
Oh, yeah.
00:03:36
Brett
Per person.
00:03:36
Jessica
And not per person, but for like me and two small children, and I think I'm eating most of them.
00:03:39
atack2010
You sound defeated.
00:03:44
Brett
See, now this is just is why Jessica is a perfect addition to the pod because she's brought reasonable opinions to the podcast for the first time ever.
00:03:48
atack2010
this is She's here.
00:03:49
Jessica
This is why you invited me.
00:03:49
atack2010
She's here.
00:03:55
Alexis
What for the first time?
00:03:55
Jessica
All the other stuff didn't matter. This is my consumption of eggs.
00:03:59
Brett
This is
Chicken Care and Egg Production
00:04:00
Brett
I just had a good feeling and it's all, you know, ah she happens to be a experienced farmer and horticulture agent or whatever.
00:04:07
Alexis
What eggs? How many eggs?
00:04:08
Brett
Eggs.
00:04:09
atack2010
Eggs.
00:04:09
Jessica
Eggs.
00:04:09
Brett
Well, because that that that was how this this whole thing started was that that people I don't find eggs to be filling in any particular way, like a couple of eggs I don't find to be particularly filling.
00:04:20
atack2010
oh
00:04:21
Brett
And so I'm i'm not saying that I would eat eggs until I was full. Just saying, I think that there's an upper a higher upper limit than most people would would believe.
00:04:28
Alexis
right
00:04:32
Brett
and so so Jessica, do you have an answer for how many you think you could eat?
00:04:37
Jessica
I think I could probably eat like at least six
Organic Matter and Farming
00:04:40
Jessica
or so because now where I scramble so many all the time, if I do, like just like I'll just make a a an egg or two, I'm like, this is nothing.
00:04:47
Alexis
It's not enough. Yeah. Yeah.
00:04:51
atack2010
But you know, the game the game seems to change for people.
00:04:51
Brett
Correct.
00:04:52
Jessica
And then I gotta start to load them with cheese.
00:04:53
atack2010
If we're talking about a hard-boiled egg, for some reason that's different in my mind. If I ate 20 hard-boiled eggs, I mean, it seems different than 20 scrambled eggs or 20 deviled eggs.
00:05:03
Alexis
See, yeah, I feel like scrambled is like everybody's like downfall. Like scrambled is where people are like, I can eat three. But if you're like, if you fry it, they're like, I can eat 12, you know?
00:05:13
Alexis
So what is it about scrambling?
00:05:14
Brett
what What are we talking about? i don't I find everything all that to be the opposite. like i've these You scramble it, it compacts everything.
00:05:18
Jessica
I would think you eat more of scrambled.
00:05:20
Alexis
Really?
00:05:21
Brett
It brings all it all into a smaller package.
00:05:24
Jessica
Yeah.
00:05:24
Brett
Also, I would just like to point out to the audience, i've and I've been made aware that some people have a bit of an ick when it comes to eggs, and sometimes Alexis is the one who brought this up.
00:05:36
Brett
Not me, not me.
00:05:38
Alexis
It was me.
00:05:38
Brett
So wait wait, wait, wait. So you're saying you eat the better part of so of maybe four to six eggs in a each day or some days, yet you're giving your max number is six?
00:05:46
Jessica
Yeah.
00:05:49
atack2010
Sounds like more like an average.
00:05:50
Jessica
Oh no, I probably, yeah, that's maybe the average.
00:05:52
atack2010
Average. That means you can do far better.
00:05:55
Alexis
I bet Jessica could put away a dozen eggs in a sitting.
00:05:56
Jessica
um I bet I could.
00:05:59
Alexis
She's like, you know what?
Cost Reduction through Organic Matter
00:06:00
Alexis
You're right.
00:06:00
Jessica
Here I, cheese, salt, pepper, maybe some garlic powder on them.
00:06:01
Alexis
Jeez. I'm in.
00:06:04
Alexis
I'm in.
00:06:05
Brett
yeah Yeah, you got to mix it up.
00:06:05
Jessica
I'm good. I mean, my chickens are giving me like 18 eggs a day right now. So y'all are going to get eggs soon if I saw you more often.
00:06:12
Alexis
Do you have to make sex every day?
00:06:14
Jessica
Yeah.
00:06:15
Brett
me Yeah, I like that.
00:06:15
Jessica
So we got to eat eggs every day.
00:06:18
Brett
I like that.
00:06:20
Alexis
Yeah, I feel like I eat a lot if it's in quiche form, like I can eat, I put a dozen eggs in a quiche.
00:06:21
Brett
Yeah.
00:06:25
Jessica
Yeah, then you're eating like, yeah, you're eating a dozen eggs.
00:06:28
Alexis
Yeah. I'm like, you know, an eggloaf, a loaf of egg.
00:06:30
atack2010
Yeah, an egg loaf.
00:06:33
Alexis
But you know what we are, we're not talking about egg loaves today, but we're talking about loaves of soil and a in a sense, loaves.
00:06:40
Brett
What?
00:06:41
Jessica
Well, chickens can tie into like organic matter, right?
00:06:44
Brett
Yeah, that's true.
00:06:44
Alexis
Well, I was thinking, you know, a loaf of something is, but it has air pockets in it, has a lot of ingredients.
00:06:45
Brett
That's true.
00:06:47
Jessica
That's where I thought we were going.
00:06:49
Brett
Loaf.
00:06:52
Alexis
It often has an active, like bio, you know, thing and has like a yeast, right?
00:06:58
atack2010
Well, like, well, if you looked at it under the microscope, it may look like scrambled eggs, Jessica.
00:06:58
Alexis
has some I was going with loaf.
00:07:02
Brett
Oh, wow.
00:07:02
atack2010
There you go with the soil conglomerates and and structure.
00:07:04
Jessica
Uh, there you go.
00:07:06
atack2010
So bring it in.
00:07:06
Brett
That's a great point, Ray.
00:07:10
atack2010
And whereas clay, pure clay would look like a bold egg.
00:07:10
Alexis
Lots of different pieces.
00:07:12
Jessica
I was just going to tie chickens in with all organic matter with it.
00:07:13
atack2010
Let's be serious.
00:07:16
Jessica
So.
00:07:17
Alexis
where we're all a little struggling with the
00:07:17
atack2010
we We can lead, you've already led right in with that.
00:07:19
Alexis
ah
00:07:21
atack2010
and What do you do with yeah your chickens? Are they confined Jessica? Because I want to, this is a soul related question.
00:07:26
Jessica
Yes, they are slightly confined because we have lots of predators, lots of hawks and foxes.
00:07:27
atack2010
Okay. Yeah.
00:07:32
atack2010
Yeah. Yeah. So you, so you yeah, you do actually have like chicken litter to kind of move out.
00:07:35
Jessica
I do have chicken litter, yeah.
00:07:38
atack2010
Yeah. So do you use that in your, I know that you guys are, you know, have a bigger operation, but like, do you use that in like a home garden area or anything?
00:07:45
Alexis
We're all a little struggling with the...
00:07:45
atack2010
Your chicken litter?
00:07:46
Jessica
Uh, yeah, we've but not so much on our main garden area, but, um, so the smaller areas I've spread it out in some of our pasture and fields that we have around the barn area, um,
00:07:51
atack2010
and
Soil Health and Organic Matter
00:08:00
Jessica
to let it do its, do its thing.
00:08:02
atack2010
Yeah, good stuff right now.
00:08:04
Alexis
breakdown.
00:08:04
Jessica
Mm-hmm.
00:08:05
Alexis
Well, I was listening to, you I want to shout out a podcast that inspired me to force these people into talking about organic matter with you today.
00:08:15
Alexis
but ah it's It's a little bit older. It's from 2017, but it's really good. It's only four episodes, but four really great episodes and they're pretty short. So if you're interested in it, we'll put a link in the ah show notes, but it's called Priming for Production, Exploring Soil Health.
00:08:33
Alexis
And it's specifically focused on organic matter. So it's Natalie Lounsberry. And that ah sounds like from, was funded from a SARE project. So that's pretty exciting ah to to know that that that they are funded and are excited about organic matter.
00:08:50
Alexis
And so I just, go ahead.
00:08:51
Brett
I love, I loved her in Murder, She Wrote.
00:08:53
Alexis
I wondered why that name sounded familiar uh not never
00:08:56
Jessica
me
00:08:58
atack2010
Ah, there you go.
00:08:59
Brett
Oh, different,
No-Till Farming Benefits
00:09:00
Alexis
like no relation but one thing that like really like caught me as a reminder like as a person who considers themselves a soil nerd i feel like i know a pretty good amount about organic matter but the way she sort of put this was
00:09:00
Brett
different Angela Lansbury.
00:09:00
atack2010
Different one. Hmm.
00:09:02
Jessica
if
00:09:02
atack2010
Took a turn. Took a turn.
00:09:17
Alexis
Organic matter allows you to produce crops at a lower cost, and that's just like the way it is to it. And because you know it has these water holding capacities, it has these nutrient capacities, it has a lot of those things and can supply those to our crops that we would, you know if it wasn't for organic matter, we would be be putting in. you know Whether that's organic fertilizers, conventional fertilizers,
00:09:42
Alexis
drip irrigation, whatever it is, it'd be something, it's an input that we're putting in that way. And so organic matter has a way of providing that ah naturally to you know our crops and that so that we don't have to do it.
00:09:54
Alexis
And it was just sort of like a, well, duh moment, but just sort of the way it was framed because I think a lot of the time we think of it as health and we don't think of it as like the cost of production as often, or at least I don't, but having good organic matter costs you less money is sort of like what it came down to.
00:10:09
Jessica
mm
00:10:11
atack2010
Yeah, it's like a long term investment and it's pretty amazing when you talk about when you look at it under a lens of like nutrients, nutrient cycling.
00:10:14
Jessica
hmm.
00:10:20
atack2010
And I know that a lot of the books cover that and the macronutrients, NP and K, nitrogen, phosphorus and. potassium and how it modifies each one of those things and how organic material that you know it starts with and is broken down by micro you know microbes and becomes inorganic like ammonia and nitrate and it's pretty amazing what organic matter when you do a deep dive into that, what it actually does.
00:10:45
atack2010
But before we get too far into this very quickly, ah what's a good definition? I've seen a couple of different variations of definitions.
00:10:52
Alexis
Mm hmm.
00:10:53
atack2010
Do you guys have a favorite definition of soil organic matter? um if it
00:10:58
Alexis
I don't have a favorite I've learned
Tillage Strategies and Myths
00:11:00
Alexis
too many things.
00:11:00
atack2010
If not, I looked up one and I circled it.
00:11:02
Brett
Man, but I'll very ahll very briefly interject that if there's not someone out there, who I'm sure there is, that has an organic focused soil health focused podcast and they don't have it called organic matters, then they need.
00:11:03
atack2010
I'm surprised. I'm surprised. Yeah.
00:11:15
Jessica
Oh, that's good.
00:11:15
atack2010
Nice. You just gave away our next show, Brett.
00:11:17
Brett
name
00:11:19
atack2010
Thanks.
00:11:19
Brett
so And on our next show.
00:11:20
atack2010
Organic Matters. Man, that is so, look, somebody needs to look that up. If that's not a podcast, I mean, it needs to be, that would be ah pretty amazing.
00:11:28
Brett
Well, as the, as the person who derailed us and the most non plant person, non-legit plant person on here, I'll, I'll, I think of like organic matter, something like carbon comes to mind as something related.
00:11:41
atack2010
Yeah, lots of research being done on that on organic matter and soil sequestration.
00:11:41
Alexis
Yeah, yeah.
00:11:45
Alexis
Did you know organic matter is half carbon? Like 50% is just straight up carbon. That's how they actually measure your organic matter.
00:11:52
atack2010
yeah
00:11:53
Alexis
Like when you go get a soil test done at your local extension office and they tell you, you have, you know, 3% organic matter. Um, I mean, do you have 6% carbon in your soil?
00:12:04
Alexis
Like, huh?
00:12:05
Jessica
That's cool.
00:12:05
Brett
1.5.
00:12:06
atack2010
Yeah, I guess a good point there is that, you know, if you're interested in organic matter, it can be measured.
00:12:08
Alexis
Yeah. 1.5. Thank you.
00:12:11
atack2010
And that's one of the tests that is still offered there at the university. So if you would like to know if you have interest after the podcast, ah kind of approach your local kind of extension office and they can help you out with that.
00:12:25
Brett
Well, I think another another thing that I think about too, ah i'm just trying to get my contribution in here early so that I could just listen afterward.
00:12:31
Alexis
just
00:12:33
Brett
But ah we talked about on a previous episode about compost and the idea of this like relationship between nitrogen and carbon green sources and brown sources.
00:12:37
atack2010
Oh, yeah.
00:12:42
Brett
And I see a connection there or like a similarity of processes um where uh things like uh carbon and nitrogen cycling that happen within uh systems and and it's it's actually it's one of those reasons why like heavy
00:12:54
atack2010
Yeah. Mm hmm.
Microbes and Soil Health
00:13:00
Brett
tillage is something that is not necessarily uh encouraged in in some cases it can actually destroy some of that carbon and the carbon then off gases is carbon monoxide and dioxide and um well it's all coming back to me now um
00:13:13
Alexis
know.
00:13:14
Brett
But I think to to me that that concept of this balance between nitrogen and carbon and and the sources of those things of of the carbon and nitrogen too in the soil.
00:13:27
Brett
So things like cover crops or other, I'm not to not to spoil ah what we're going to talk about later, I guess. But that that to me is like a nice entry point for at least imagining.
00:13:36
Jessica
That's
00:13:37
Brett
Like if I need brown matter in my in my compost pile, what am I
00:13:40
Jessica
amazing.
00:13:53
Alexis
and I would.
00:13:55
atack2010
Yeah, and that's one of the things you have to be kind of not not careful about, but I
Practical Soil Management
00:14:00
atack2010
was going to talk a little bit about this towards the end of the show. I mean, home gardeners, this affects more than commercial operations, obviously. But if you take a heavy carbon load and put it in the soil, it can bind through several chemical processes.
00:14:15
atack2010
It can bind nitrogen for a time until that's broken down and equalized out. So it's not uncommon in like landscapes and home gardens that you're going to just put a heavy carbon load on the soil.
00:14:27
atack2010
Keep in mind that it can cause some nutrient deficiency through nitrogen deficiency ah for a time.
00:14:30
Jessica
and That's a good, good point, right? and Because we see that a lot from the side of things as an agent with, especially like raised beds, when people are trying to amend them and add that matter.
00:14:44
Jessica
And then their plants often are struggling from that nitrogen deficiency.
00:14:47
atack2010
yeah
00:14:49
Jessica
So needing to add, add a little something extra in there for those plants during that time.
00:14:49
atack2010
yeah
00:14:54
Alexis
Yeah, I would say like organic matter is those chemical processes, for sure, Brett, that you like kind of brought up that we don't always think about as like you know chemical, but carbon, nitrogen, those are those are chemicals.
00:15:06
Alexis
But organic matter is also ah like the physical um and the micro by all by microbiology ah in there, so physical you know organic matter is 50% pore space.
00:15:13
atack2010
Yeah. Yeah.
00:15:20
Alexis
and so ah you know That would be ideal. so It's pore space with macro and micro pores, so it's air and water holding capacity. ah plate weighs for that water to actually percolate down through the soil and not just shut off. It but you know supplies that ah so kind of that sponge. A lot of the time we think of organic matter as like a sponge and that sits on top of your top soil and you know your upper horizons.
00:15:45
Alexis
And then you've got your microbes that are completing those chemical processes for you. And they're the ones that are eating up that carbon, ah but also ah eating up the glucose that's leaving the the plant roots and
Compost Quality and Strategies
00:16:00
Alexis
creating things that those plants can then use. And they're respiring and and making that ammonia and all of those good nutrients that we want. And so it's sort of this you know microbes, chemicals,
00:16:13
Alexis
physical properties that sort of make up organic matter. Fun fact.
00:16:22
Alexis
Yeah, yeah, it actually, it is. All those microbes I'm in there? And photosynthesis?
00:16:28
atack2010
Done.
00:16:29
Alexis
Yes, answer is yes.
00:16:48
Alexis
Mm hmm.
Testing Soil and Cover Cropping
00:17:11
atack2010
Yeah, and and not static at all, because yeah when we talk about organic matter and soil, we're talking about plant and animal material that's in some stage of decomposition, talking about the microorganisms and their byproducts. And what you were just kind of referring to, I think there, Brett, was the byproducts, which is all the good things through mineralization that we see. That's the proteins, amino acids that are becoming the all-important p ammonia and nitrate that's usable by plants. so But that organic matter in a nutshell is just planting animal material in some form of decay, along with the critters, the microorganisms that sort of live with them. So that's kind of the basis of the discussion today. But it's not static at all and the levels are always fluctuating. One of you mentioned earlier.
00:17:56
atack2010
um about the fact of over-tillage. It was a big concept, which by the way, started in Kentucky, really cool. No-till started right here in Kentucky. I'll claim that. ah Started here many years ago um and ah became popular all across the country and the world. but um
00:18:23
atack2010
Really, did not know that.
00:18:24
Jessica
I, I, yeah, I think I've heard that before too.
00:18:25
atack2010
um I know some of the very early research, very early research, like the the beginning of the research started there, so that makes perfect sense.
00:18:37
Jessica
Yeah.
00:18:38
atack2010
Yeah, but it's like absolutely epic in the grand scheme of agriculture, modern agriculture.
00:18:43
Jessica
he
00:18:44
atack2010
Yeah, it's ah absolutely amazing. Yeah, I didn't, I didn't realize that that's so cool, but it kind of all started here. But one of you guys mentioned that if you over till you're actually causing a degradation of the organic matter too quickly, it does both good and bad things and releases, you know, macro
Home Garden Soil Management
00:19:00
atack2010
nutrients that MP and K we're talking about too quickly.
00:19:03
atack2010
ah But all of that kind of spawned out of this no-till movement and the stability that no-till brings, not only stability of the top of the soil, um the soil itself physically, but the stability and the nutrients within the soil and the moisture and all the other good things that come along with no-till. But started right here in Kentucky. Very cool. Very cool.
00:19:25
Alexis
what right What you're saying um like makes me think about something I heard that was to reap the full benefits of organic matter and all the different ways that it's great.
00:19:36
Alexis
We have to both consume it and replenish it. and I say we i in like the general sense, and mostly like the microbes.
00:19:40
atack2010
Yes.
00:19:42
Alexis
but
00:19:43
atack2010
That cycle.
00:19:43
Alexis
You know the plants and yeah, so it's we have to we can't just be replenishing it Uh, you know via cover crops and stuff like that.
00:19:43
atack2010
Yeah.
00:19:50
Alexis
We have to be we have to have those microbes consuming it other than otherwise that stuff's just like sitting and not being um degrade Right Right
00:19:54
atack2010
Yeah.
00:19:57
Jessica
Mm-hmm.
00:19:58
atack2010
If you're taking off too much of the organic, you know, the bulk organic matter, like let's say crop residue, then you're not feeding the microorganisms. And all of a sudden, if you have crop residue and no microorganisms, you have no
00:20:09
Jessica
Yeah, no way to break it down.
00:20:09
atack2010
Breakdown process. Yeah.
00:20:10
Alexis
Right.
00:20:10
atack2010
Yeah.
00:20:11
Alexis
Right.
00:20:11
atack2010
Yep.
00:20:12
Alexis
so like That's why like I know a lot of people who, I don't want to say I know a lot of people, but there are people who, especially in like strawberry production and some like tunnel production, who will like biofumigate and what that does to that you know couple inches top inches of ah soil of your microbes, and so yes, they're getting rid of the bad microbes, but just like and when ah humans take an antibiotic, they're also getting rid of their good microbes and what and how that can really throw things for a short time into like a weird limbo where nothing might be degrading for a short amount of time because there's nothing there to break it down.
00:20:12
atack2010
That's exactly right
00:20:49
Alexis
ah So I thought that was pretty interesting. We have to consume it and replenish it in order for that to be working. And like no-till is, we we obviously know that no-till is is a great thing, but ah it's not, I think think people, my opinion is strictly my opinion.
00:21:09
Alexis
ah really ahte My opinion is that like a lot of people put ah a lot of pressure on this kind of no-till where all you're doing is sort of piling up onto the soil surface. and Yes, that can be good, but there's something for every situation. and I think the idea of like low-till is not always a bad thing and I don't want people to think that tillage is always bad because what what lightly light tillage, you know, whether it's that you're just maybe occasionally taking a ripper through, which is just like a single time that you're just dragging through one area to kind of make sure that things are getting broken up.
00:21:34
atack2010
No, no, no.
00:21:50
Alexis
If you're having some water you know moving problems or something, like your pore space just isn't right, you can be doing that. and that be What that does is breaks up those aggregates ah just a little bit to make them accessible to the microbes. so like Instead of them having to climb Mount Everest to get to that, they're you know maybe just like walking over the hill type of situation. and so A little bit of tillage is not always bad.
00:22:16
Alexis
like Excessive tillage, yes, ah is is a problem, um but it's a problem to me from more of a the erratic weather situation that we have because we can supplement you know a field that has no organic matter, can still out-compete a field if you just have to put in more inputs.
00:22:29
Jessica
Mm hmm.
00:22:39
Alexis
right That's where excessive fertilizer, excessive water, those types of things would come in. It can still out-compete a no-till field. um You're just putting a lot more, you're spending a lot more to get it there, right?
00:22:51
Alexis
But when you have four inches of rain that suddenly come, as we are seeing you know all around the US and this random things, or we're having you know a lot more droughts followed up by four inches of rain, that's where I think organic matter can be the most valuable is in a lot of the time in its physical properties.
00:23:09
atack2010
physical stability is what you're saying, like protective, even protective cover, or just the modification of the soil structure itself, not just a physical covering.
00:23:15
Alexis
Yeah, right.
00:23:17
atack2010
So, so there's so many good, there's so many benefits to organic matter. I think that, you know, that's widely known, well-accepted, no argument there. There is some limited scenarios where you have to be careful with home gardeners getting, you know, too much of an influx of organic matter and very limited situations, but organic matter is a good thing.
00:23:34
Alexis
Well, but but organ is it too much organic matter is it too much carbon because the because I don't I i think that there's.
00:23:39
atack2010
The balance of the organic matter, yeah.
00:23:45
Alexis
How do I remember organic matters only 50 percent carbon rate like that's the.
00:23:49
atack2010
Yeah.
00:23:49
Alexis
yeah here And I'm saying this because like this is something that like shocked me today and was like a reminder that like we often think about it as you can overdo organic matter. But like technically, we probably could never reach the the peak organic matter like in nature.
00:24:06
atack2010
Yeah, on especially larger areas, right?
00:24:08
Alexis
in well we can reach max carbon which means like what we we're talking about like mulch can be really hard to break down right it ties up nitrogen just said that earlier so yes we can overdo the carbon for short amounts of period but true organic matter i don't know if you can ever reach
00:24:09
atack2010
Yeah.
00:24:12
atack2010
Yeah.
00:24:16
atack2010
Mm. Yeah.
00:24:23
atack2010
Mm.
00:24:26
Alexis
full fully saturated because you've got those microbes breaking it down and breaking it down and respiring. So like, I don't know if in, even if in you were raised beds, let's just say in a non-sterile environment, if you could ever reach that capacity.
00:24:43
Alexis
I don't know. I was, like the podcast I was listening to, shout out to them. They were talking about this exact thing and they were saying like, there are different saturation points for different types of soil, right?
00:24:52
atack2010
Mmm.
00:24:53
Alexis
Like sandy soil versus clay, loams, all those kinds of things, but that like they could never see true saturation ever actually being possible of what is actually organic matter.
00:25:04
Alexis
And I thought that was fascinating.
00:25:06
atack2010
And as long as the system's working right, it's ah you know we talked about you know the plant and animal material itself, ah the ratios therein.
00:25:06
Jessica
um
00:25:09
Alexis
Right. The system has to be working exactly.
00:25:14
atack2010
We've talked about the microbes and we've talked about you know that there's processes where the inorganic you know compounds or organic compounds are broken down to inorganic compounds.
00:25:24
Jessica
Yeah.
00:25:25
atack2010
The good guys that are you know palatable for plants. And and ah summarize, somebody wanna summarize like all of the things we've been talking about and what I wanna move on to is, all the benefits we've just talked about i and go into some of the common ways, which we've already kind of dipped into that.
00:25:41
atack2010
Some of the common ways, we'll start with home gardeners, but also, you know, commercial operations can increase organic matter levels. So on the benefit side, the big benefits, the big things we think of right off the top of our heads for organic matter, it's, you know, soil protection, ah what new, who someone of you guys mentioned, new nutrient,
00:25:56
Alexis
Nutrient, water holding capacity.
00:25:58
atack2010
Yes, all of both of those things very important. So all of those things incredibly important. So a home gardener is listening to this program today and they're like, oh, organic matters. Awesome.
00:26:08
atack2010
Hadn't thought a lot about it. I want to increase my organic matter.
00:26:11
Alexis
and here
00:26:12
atack2010
Where do I start?
00:26:16
atack2010
yeah Yeah, go ahead, Brent.
00:26:32
Alexis
it
00:26:32
atack2010
Yeah.
00:26:52
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:26:53
atack2010
hu
00:27:04
atack2010
Ammonia nitrate, yeah.
00:27:07
Alexis
Mm hmm.
00:27:08
atack2010
And extremely concentrated forms. Yeah, Brett, that's a great point, yeah.
00:27:12
Jessica
oh
00:27:15
Alexis
yeah
00:28:36
Alexis
Mm hmm.
00:28:50
Jessica
awesome
00:29:37
Alexis
oh yeah
00:30:03
Alexis
Oh yeah.
00:30:09
atack2010
Oh yeah. Yeah.
00:30:17
Jessica
Mm-hmm.
00:30:40
atack2010
and The system was working. Yeah. Yeah.
00:30:42
Alexis
When in doubt, just copy Mother Nature. She's she's got it unlocked.
00:30:45
atack2010
And there's a reason, Brett, you mentioned, you know, like there's a reason why USDA focuses, has major for major focus areas on organic matter or why the University of Kentucky labs, which are, you know, just basic university labs, public facing, ah many of them.
00:31:01
atack2010
But there's a reason why that they cover organic matter in their testing. There's a reason why, because it's that important. Uh, that should be an indicator, you know, when you see things like that, how very important that organic matter is.
00:31:14
atack2010
I think a lot of us know it, but you know, day-to-day just walking around, we don't think about, you know, the in-depth terms that were, you know, a little bit more in-depth.
00:31:21
Alexis
You don't?
00:31:22
atack2010
I mean, I'm not in mixed conversation because it gives you weird looks when you talk about that cat on exchange.
00:31:22
Alexis
That's not something everybody does?
00:31:24
Jessica
and
00:31:24
Alexis
She's like, walk around thinking about soil?
00:31:29
atack2010
I said, I wasn't going to mention, but they give, they give you weird looks.
00:31:30
Jessica
Oh, you mentioned it.
00:31:33
atack2010
No, it never stopped there before.
00:31:34
Alexis
I have mushrooms on my shirt today.
00:31:35
atack2010
No.
00:31:36
Alexis
I mean, we're toilets. Talk about soil.
00:31:52
Alexis
Thank you.
00:31:54
atack2010
Yeah.
00:32:50
atack2010
I think it's one of the common ways that, especially you know smaller scale operations, I think that that that's what a lot of them, where they start is compost.
00:32:59
Alexis
Yeah.
00:33:01
Alexis
Jessica go ahead.
00:33:02
Jessica
um Oh, I was just gonna say that like, I think that's what everyone normally thinks.
00:33:07
Alexis
Yeah.
00:33:07
Jessica
Like I have to use compost, right to increase more organic matter. But there's kind of a couple different options you can do something as simple as just like adding like the leaves that you rake, you know, maybe in your backyard garden, adding those in there in the fall.
00:33:19
atack2010
Yeah.
00:33:21
Jessica
um incorporating them in in the spring in a variety of different things. and We kind of mentioned manures and stuff earlier. and
00:33:32
atack2010
Yeah, that's a big one.
00:33:32
Jessica
and
00:33:33
atack2010
Yeah, manures, different animal manures.
00:33:33
Jessica
it
00:33:33
Alexis
i I've always thought of, um I don't want to say always, that's a lie. ah More recently, based on like research, have started to think about compost. and and We've talked about this in our compost episode of compost as a soil conditioner rather than something to build organic matter. To me, it's like the vitamin you're going to give those microbes so that they can create more soil organic matter for you, not you putting organic matter on there.
00:34:04
Alexis
Does that does that kind of make sense? like it's ah We used to think, oh, to build you know to have organic matter, you have to put it on there. And it was like, here you go.
00:34:13
Jessica
Mm hmm.
00:34:14
Alexis
I'm dropping manure, which is organic matter. but Rather, I think we should think about it as it's helping to create organic matter um because you know putting on six inches of compost is less probably less beneficial than an inch of compost with something like a cover crop where you're getting plant roots into the soil system.
00:34:22
atack2010
Yeah.
00:34:36
Alexis
so like
00:34:36
atack2010
Like a green manure cover crop specifically.
00:34:37
Jessica
Mm hmm.
00:34:38
Alexis
Yeah. Yeah. Agree manure rather than like a, you know, even a compost.
00:34:40
atack2010
Yeah. Yeah.
00:34:42
Alexis
But like Jessica said, like the leaves are also, um, good and it's something that they, those microbes can actually like break down, uh, mulches in general. Uh, Jessica has a lot of experience with rehabbing soil with mulch, don't you?
00:34:55
Jessica
I do, yeah. I've used a little bit of the house that all the topsoil was gone and it was pure clay and rocks when I went to make all the flower beds, right? Because there was nothing there. And it takes time, right? So if especially if you're working in an area that is like completely clay right or that soil is just so hard to work with. But it's rewarding because in the end, like after a couple of years, and I will say that because everyone always seems to want instant results. I can't tell you how many people I've talked to. You're like, oh, I bought this piece of land and I'm going to start a garden, but it's pure clay.
00:35:30
Jessica
I'm going to put some compost down or I'm going to add some other organic matter.
00:35:31
Alexis
And that'll fix everything, right?
00:35:34
Jessica
I'm going to put some old straw or, so you know, down to break down over the winter and I'll be able to plant in this beautiful soil the next year. But it was probably like year four for me where I finally had that like, oh my gosh, like look, I couldn't
00:35:48
Alexis
And you've been putting down mulch, right?
00:35:50
Jessica
I had been putting down mulch, like finely shredded mulch, not any of the big chunks.
00:35:52
Alexis
ah
00:35:55
Alexis
ah
00:35:55
Jessica
And then, you know, adding other things here and there with it. But, um, finally see a major difference in the soil and these flower beds that it took about like four years to finally see that.
00:36:07
Jessica
Um,
00:36:12
Jessica
um Oh, thank you. Yeah, they were smaller beds too. So, you know, I'm humble about it.
00:36:21
Alexis
they were beautiful
00:36:21
Jessica
It is rewarding though. like you know When you finally see that change, um because you know I have nothing more I hate when those companies take all your topsoil off your property.
00:36:23
Alexis
yeah
00:36:33
Alexis
Yeah to be a crime well in uh, I mean when we think about it like saying in four years even seven years in the grand scheme of things like yeah That can feel like a really long time when you're really wanting to plant a garden or start Cropping or something right now, but like in the grand scheme of things that's not a long period of time You know like when you think about how long it takes for soil to make but again i'm going back to just sort of some of the research i've been hearing about
00:36:36
atack2010
The.
00:36:51
Jessica
Oh it's not.
00:37:00
Alexis
You can shorten that timeline, which again is very new and fresh ah to me where even four years, I mean, there's research that has been done that like 15 months if you do it right and like are optimizing all these different parts. It could be done in like, you know, two years, 15 months to two years, but you have to really Yeah, yeah.
00:37:23
Alexis
so So optimizing, so things like having living plant roots consistently in the soil. So whether that's cover crop or even your crop is also doing that, but mixing that in.
00:37:35
Jessica
Mm hmm.
00:37:35
Alexis
So kind of a year round living root situation, as well as making sure that you are putting, if you need to put down or add in any ah compost or um you know other nutrient substances to maximize how those microbes and how quickly they break things down. I mean, that's like perfect situation, right? But the fact that it, yeah, that you're organic matter. Um, so if you, the re the study I was listening to, which is of course, just one study I was listening to and it was in a lab and ah you know, in a perfect situation. So like you have to take that into consideration, but, um,
00:38:19
Alexis
They fed the microbes, a glucose, sulfur, nitrogen, you know all of the things that they needed on a weekly basis. and They started from clay that had no ah microbial population, that was completely sterilized, ah just like 100% clay, right like things you would throw pottery with.
00:38:40
Alexis
And they added in um a solution of a mix of microbes directly from you know a soil system outside. They added that and they fed them exactly what they needed and mimicked the plant roots. They didn't actually have plants, but they mimicked all of those things that plants provide. And in 15 months, they had ah they went from literally nothing to 1% organic matter, which might not sound like a lot, but when you're going from nothing a sterile situation too in 15 months having 1%. I mean a lot of our agricultural soils have 1% and we're growing mass amount of crops on them. So like that was pretty ah pretty cool and like we'll never be in a situation
00:39:24
Alexis
truly in a situation in the world, hopefully, in my lifetime at least, that we will have like you know completely sterile soil. So like what that means is we can build those things quickly if we're optimizing those what those microbes are capable of. um And I think one of the easiest ways for home gardeners or you know larger farmers is to have some sort of root system, whether that's your crop, your you know your cash crop, your tomatoes,
00:39:51
Alexis
or winter rye in the soil at all times would be like one of the easiest ways and and honestly one of the cheaper ways for a lot of people because compost is expensive man like and like winter wheat like or winter rye seed is real cheap in comparison so it is
00:40:04
Jessica
It is expensive.
00:40:10
Jessica
And good compost is hard to find, right?
00:40:12
atack2010
Good combo that you know the source of yeah, yeah
00:40:13
Jessica
Because you, yeah, that's, you know, that's a coming from the agent side and talking to people is like, one, it's expensive. Two, is it a good source?
00:40:23
Jessica
Has it been composted properly?
00:40:24
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:40:25
Jessica
Are you just buying something that's full of weed seed that has not been composted properly and you're just bringing in stuff?
00:40:27
Alexis
Right.
00:40:31
Jessica
Um, is it, I know it was an issue a couple of years ago, uh, manure being composted in some of these where
00:40:40
atack2010
Yeah, persistent chemicals, yeah.
00:40:40
Jessica
that manure is coming from, yeah, from like herbicides.
00:40:44
Alexis
Fried on South Farm. Brett, were you on South Farm when that happened?
00:40:50
atack2010
That is the right answer, Brett.
00:41:07
atack2010
Definitively, yes.
00:41:08
Jessica
um so
00:41:08
Alexis
oh Good times, good times. but
00:41:14
atack2010
They're biologically persistent.
00:41:15
Jessica
Yes. A lot of things that are used, I believe in like horse pastures that make it through.
00:41:22
atack2010
Yeah, there's a classification of chemical and I think most of the there was a time there's a transition time where. There's a big problem in the state and it was a widespread problem, not only in Kentucky, but other states where these persistent biochemicals, you know, and but it said that clearly on the label, do not use this for a certain this amount of time. Do not use it for composting material. But that means that you would have to read the the label and not everybody apparently did that.
00:41:47
atack2010
So you had large operations, animal operations that were selling their man the composted manure products and then causing lots of lots of plants to die. So you have to watch out for that persistent chemicals.
00:41:59
atack2010
ah in compost. And Jessica, you mentioned another big one. If your compost pile doesn't get hot enough, you have to watch for not only weed seeds, but diseases.
00:42:05
Jessica
Oh yeah.
00:42:07
atack2010
If you've composted disease materials, um you know, and all these are things we kind of work through, gar especially like home gardeners, we work through with them, kind of giving just a little bit of warning to say, if you're new to compost and you want to increase organic matter, that is great.
00:42:23
atack2010
But here's some of the things to watch out for. That's kind of the three biggies right there. And the one is if you're composting yourself, that's fine. You know, the source you're putting in there, but if you're purchasing compost, Jessica, yeah, you got, and Brad, na those of you that were talking about the chemicals, you have to kind of question the farm a little bit.
00:42:39
atack2010
And if it's a compound, modern composting operation, you would but hope that they use clean compost you know sources.
00:42:45
Jessica
Right.
00:42:47
atack2010
so
00:42:47
Jessica
Yeah, I think, go ahead.
00:42:47
Alexis
So. Or I was going to say, so I just wanted like, we've been talking about things, mostly me, and I keep interrupting everybody. But, um, so what can, like, as we kind of like finish this up, like what can people do, whether you're small guard backyard garden, or even up to like market garden size, what can you do to increase your organic powder if you need to do it? Like my first step would tell, would be to tell people, we'll figure out what you're working with.
00:43:20
Alexis
You know go get your soil tests because that's always what I'm gonna say in every episode about soil ever Yeah,
00:43:26
Jessica
That's where you start with anything, with any garden thing. Have you had your soil tested?
00:43:30
Alexis
yeah, it's the first question um so, you know, there's a lot more than they'll tell you
00:43:32
Jessica
Yeah.
00:43:34
Jessica
I've been recommending like. You know, if people want to and like ah an easy cover crop, right? But you get that fine line sometimes with some of these market gardens and things of like where they still have, they need to go ahead and put the cover crop on, but their production season is still going.
00:43:49
Alexis
here Oh, right here.
00:43:51
Jessica
So yeah, same, same.
00:43:52
Alexis
Same.
00:43:54
Jessica
um Still got peppers going.
00:43:54
Alexis
Yep.
00:43:55
Jessica
Um, so it's finding that what works for their system.
00:43:56
Alexis
Yep.
00:44:00
Alexis
Mm hmm.
00:44:01
Jessica
Right. And then again, I know I keep going back to livestock, but that's like what I have in my brain and have like, you know, we've used, uh, almost like.
00:44:05
Alexis
Mm hmm.
00:44:11
Jessica
I would say aged manure. right It's not really composting because we have like cattle. like Do these people have you know access to that as maybe something they want to put on?
00:44:16
atack2010
Yeah.
00:44:22
Jessica
and you know I guess finding, like you said, what the after a soil test, what resources do they have? like what can they What can they do?
00:44:28
Alexis
and
00:44:30
Alexis
And like it's not all or nothing, you know, like if you have a small, yeah, like it it's something I have to remind myself, like, yeah, it would be really nice if I could, you know, rip out these plants now and get cover crop down in time.
00:44:32
atack2010
It's a systems approach. yeah
00:44:34
Jessica
Yeah, it's a combo.
00:44:43
atack2010
Yeah.
00:44:43
Alexis
But like, I really need these for another two weeks and it might make it too late for me to put cover crop down. One, I say go ahead and try it because I'm always astounded at what, and like for the cost of seed, ah you know it's not always a complete, it's not always that big of a deal.
00:44:53
atack2010
yeah
00:44:59
Alexis
like It might be like two bucks worth of seed to put something.
00:45:01
atack2010
I was technically too late.
00:45:02
Jessica
Mm hmm.
00:45:03
atack2010
I just sowed some annual rye and I was ah probably two weeks past my comfort point, but but I was gone.
00:45:08
Alexis
Yeah, I've still not done it.
00:45:10
atack2010
Yeah. So, I mean, I'm just now sowing yesterday my rye and and some some other grasses just because I had the seed there and it was a few bucks worth of seed.
00:45:15
Alexis
Yeah.
00:45:20
atack2010
It was cheap. I used crimson clover the year before. So, you know, I got the benefit of that, but I used a really basic cover crop this year just so that my little garden patch out back did not go through winter bear.
00:45:32
Alexis
Right.
00:45:32
atack2010
that's um one that That was my one thing I did not want is it to go through the winter bear.
00:45:36
Alexis
Yeah.
00:45:36
atack2010
I didn't want them.
00:45:37
Alexis
And so, so, but I guess what I was getting at was, you know, even if it's one bed. And so you just kind of add that into your rotation to like, can you sacrifice one row of peppers?
00:45:49
Alexis
Can you sacrifice one? And, you know, sometimes the answer is no. And like, there are ways to still like work through that with like summer options and like intercropping. um that I'm all discovering and sharing. but ah but so like Even if it's just one bed and then that gets mixed into your rotation and ah you know you're going through it that way and you can see the benefit of that from year to year and then eventually you know all of your beds have been cover cropped.
00:46:16
Alexis
And so I would like say, don't feel intimidated by like, I really wanted to leave my tomatoes a couple more weeks and then it makes it too late. Well, it's okay. Just like, just take out one tomato, you know, one area of something, uh, and, and maybe do a little less sacrificing that way.
00:46:34
Alexis
That would be, that's my first thing is what I'm telling myself as I need to go do that today. So Jessica's like,
00:46:38
Jessica
Right, right. That's what I'm thinking as well.
00:46:41
atack2010
It's really more of a pep talk for Alexis. Yeah.
00:46:44
Alexis
Yeah. It's, I'm kept talking myself. So that I think is one way. And you could also do just cover your beds with something. We say like, don't leave them bare.
00:46:52
Jessica
Yep.
00:46:53
Alexis
Like ideally in a perfect world, you would have living roots in that system. But if you can't do that, cover it with a tarp. We've talked about this before, like it's because then you're not, um, as long as you're not getting a lot of, uh, rain and winter winds.
00:47:02
atack2010
Solarize it.
00:47:11
Alexis
ah washing away that organic matter that you do have there, that topsoil, that organic matter that is currently there. Cover it with a tarp, cover it with something to keep it from there. That's the next best solution if you can't do ah living roots. What that does is it'll warm the soil up for you and that can open a window for you to do an early spring slash late winter cover crop, which will be before your summer stuff will go in. So like um there's one that i'm I've tried and I'm excited to like really amp up this year called Lacy Facilia, which is a late winter, very early spring like for us in Kentucky. We're talking like March.
00:47:51
Alexis
Well, I'm not going to put, you know, if I was growing tomatoes, I'm not going to put those tomatoes in until May. So I've got a really nice window where I can be getting some good living roots into the soil early. um I'm keeping my weeds down, all that stuff we talk about, but it's building organic matter. And then I'm just going to terminate it and throw in my summer annuals. And so ah don't feel bad if you've missed the window. Again, I'm pep talking myself. Don't feel bad. It's okay.
00:48:17
Jessica
Yeah, and I'm gonna go home and be like, hey, we need to get on this, right? Let's do it.
00:48:21
Alexis
Yeah. Yeah. Or, or, you know, um, having a bed that, you know, you can throw in some buckwheat for 30 days, just like even just a month. Uh, I'm always surprised at how good something can get. And that's in the summer. So like in between your gardens or, Oh man, I didn't get that one bed planted soon enough. I'm just, my tomatoes aren't going to be ready for another month. I'm going to throw in some buckwheat again, just kind of having consistent living roots in there. I think would be like my number one recommendation for Building organic matter In an inexpensive way.
00:48:55
Alexis
Um, it's a little bit more to wrap your brain around but once you get it you got it Anybody else Too much alexis
00:49:03
atack2010
It's good stuff.
00:49:17
Alexis
then
00:49:34
Alexis
yeah Yes.
00:49:50
Jessica
Mm hmm.
00:49:55
Alexis
I'll be eating and...
00:49:55
atack2010
Dang it.
00:50:01
atack2010
Time and some more things, yeah.
00:51:10
Alexis
Right.
00:51:13
Alexis
Which, and like even broad forking people, okay. So people think of broad forking as, as no-till, but like the whole idea of tillage is disturbance of the soil. So technically broad forking and no knock against it. I think it's awesome, but broad forking is a form of tillage. So like, let's not. Yes.
00:51:39
Alexis
yeah Yeah, multiple times.
00:51:39
atack2010
Yeah.
00:51:39
Jessica
here
00:51:47
Alexis
Water can move, yeah.
00:52:05
Alexis
Yeah.
00:52:06
Jessica
Different kinds, yeah.
00:52:40
atack2010
And I think if you want to motivate yourself, ah you know, do approach your local extension office, establish a baseline of how much organic matter, not only a baseline, but establish a scale of what's good, what's ideal, you know, what is not ideal in your soil, but establish a baseline through testing, you know, wait a couple of years after you've made some effort.
00:53:00
atack2010
ah and on increasing the soil organic matter. And then take another test and see where you are. And I've seen home gardeners and even commercial operations, they respond tremendously to ah verifying their success.
00:53:14
atack2010
They see that what they're doing is working. So what do they do? They go and do more of that good thing that is working.
00:53:19
Jessica
Yeah.
00:53:20
atack2010
So it's sort of a reinforcement loop. Do that. ah The testing is there. And you can see if what you are doing is effective. And hopefully that will establish good you know routines and habits ah in whatever you're doing. So yeah, definitely go and have that test done and kind of a work you know with your local offices and getting that done.
00:53:41
Alexis
Cool. Well, the Corgis would like to tell me to stop podcasting.
00:53:47
atack2010
Full bark. Full stop.
00:53:50
Alexis
Yeah. Sorry about that.
00:53:50
atack2010
Yeah.
00:53:51
Alexis
I was um went enjoying the beautiful fall weather and they're, I don't want to co-host, you know, they're real cute, but their voices are not, uh, they're, they're video friendly, not necessarily.
00:53:53
atack2010
They're the co-host, Alexis. It's fine. They are the co-host.
00:54:05
Alexis
So. Anyways, before you all have to listen to them anymore, thank you all for being with us today. Follow us on Instagram at Hort Culture podcast. You can shoot us an email that is in sure um the mailman must be here. That's the only thing I have to say. You can shoot us an email ah that is in the show notes. And thanks for being here with us today. We hope that as we grow this podcast, you will grow with us.