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The Hidden Work of Staying Connected with Tania Plakonouris
22 Plays4 months ago
At The Second Voice, we explore the inner conversations leaders rarely say out loud.
Today, Luisa's guest is Tania Plakonouris, a Relational Resilience Consultant. When relationships start to strain — at work, in teams, or in our personal lives — the easiest thing to do is walk away. But what if real resilience isn’t about holding it together, but learning how to reconnect when it feels impossible? Today we’re exploring the quiet, unseen work that keeps connection alive — even when it hurts. If this episode resonated, it is likely because the second voice is active in your leadership too.
Connect and work with Tania
Instagram @vermelho_consulting
www.vermelho.com.au
Hosted by Luisa Hogan, leadership resilience strategist and founder of Vermelho Consulting.
Luisa works with founders, executives, and senior leaders who carry real responsibility and want to lead with steadiness, clarity, and self-trust under pressure.
Her work focuses on nervous system regulation, leadership identity, and the inner dialogue that shapes how leaders show up when things are hard.
Work With Luisa
If this episode sparked reflection, here are ways to go deeper:
• Leadership resilience workshops and advisory
• Keynotes and curated live experiences
• The Steady Leadership framework and private sessions
Learn more at: vermelho.com.au
A Note From Whisper & Thread
The Second Voice is proudly supported by Whisper & Thread.
Whisper & Thread creates intimate apparel embroidered with quiet, internal messages designed to interrupt negative self-talk.
Each piece carries a reminder on the inside. Not performative. Not loud. Just for you.
Because leadership self-talk does not start in the boardroom.
And confidence is built in the moments no one sees.
Explore Whisper & Thread at: whisperandthread.com
Stay Connected
Follow along and join the conversation:
• Instagram: @thesecondvoicepodcast
• Instagram: @vermelho_consulting
• Instagram: @whisperandthread
Subscribe, rate, and review The Second Voice to help more leaders find these conversations.
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Transcript
Introduction and Theme
00:00:00
Speaker
When relationships start to strain, whether it's at work or personally or in your professional life, the easiest thing to do is to walk away. But what if resilience isn't about holding it all together and pretending like nothing was wrong? What if we could learn how to reconnect when it feels impossible?
00:00:21
Speaker
Today, we're exploring the quiet unseen work that keeps connection alive, even when it hurts.
Podcast and Guest Introduction
00:00:27
Speaker
Welcome to the Second Voice Podcast, where we have conversations that leaders and entrepreneurs don't have out loud. Today, I'm joined by my most special guest in the world, and her name is Tanya Plakonoris. She is an incredible leader, and we are going to explore relational resilience.
00:00:46
Speaker
Tanya is a relational resilience consultant, coach, and facilitator who specializes in helping individuals and teams create the kinds of relationships that last.
Understanding Relational Resilience
00:00:56
Speaker
Relational resilience is the ability to build connections that withstand stress and recover from setbacks and grow steady over a period of time.
00:01:05
Speaker
Tanya has a background in, well, spanning hospitality and ecotourism, youth development and community projects across multiple countries. And she's led diverse teams and guided people through high pressure, high stake environments. She's known for creating relationships with respect. And I can attest to that because not only Tanya is Tanya my business partner ah with Whisper and Thread and associate consultant in my ah consulting practice for Nello, but she's also my sister. And I know the kind of relationships that Tanya builds on a day-to-day basis. And I have huge respect for what
Tanya's Career and Personal Journey
00:01:42
Speaker
she does.
00:01:42
Speaker
And I can't wait for you all to hear her speak because she is one passionate lady and I love her so much, but I know that you are going to love everything that she has to say. So Tanya, thank you so much for joining me. i am so happy that you're part of my podcast.
00:01:58
Speaker
And part of your life. And part of my life forever and ever. Hello. um Well, look, I did give a little bit of a bio about you and want you to start with telling us a little bit about your background and how did you end up doing the work that you do now?
00:02:20
Speaker
Right. so Where do I even start? Gosh, I did my I did. Like everyone went through school, not really understanding or knowing where my passion lied or, you know, where where I wanted to be. But I went through school, not really, you know finding a spot to to shine.
00:02:48
Speaker
But leaving high school, I went into university. um completing a nature conservation course because my love for animals um with the rest of us in the family, as you know, my sister, was a big thing in our lives. And my love for horses, my love for dogs, um for outside life took me into nature conservation. And I had it easy because at the time, my boyfriend, Ryan, um did the course with me and
00:03:19
Speaker
30 years down the line, he's my husband. And so we did a nature conservation course and um got married and traveled to Kenya on honeymoon. We took a three month holiday and thinking that we were going to do nature conservation in Kenya, which we did for a little while. We we we did um children's educational programs through conservation. But the one weekend, the hotel company that we were currently at the time working asked us if we would be able to host um a weekend because a management couple needed to urgently get back home.
00:04:01
Speaker
um And so Ryan and I took up the position as a hosting couple and to look after a a little lodge in the coast of of of Kenya, in Kenya, um in Lamu. And that's where management started. So that was in 1996.
00:04:23
Speaker
And um that's when I started to to find this burning desire to be a manager, but not just ah a camp manager or a lodge manager, but a manager with heart and um and a manager using my head and my heart and my hands to create an environment, not only that was wonderful for me, but the people around me. And so Ryan and I started our management um journey right up until 2021.
New Beginnings and Whisper and Thread
00:05:02
Speaker
um running hotels and running small teams in small boutique hotels. Amazing. And then Gosh, then moving to Portugal and starting all over again, which then taught me that you can pivot at any time you want. um There's no limits to what you want to do with with with your life. And so currently now we found ourselves running a small little two-man business in restoration projects.
00:05:38
Speaker
And um so not really leading teams, but certainly leading ourselves into a whole new world of construction.
00:05:52
Speaker
Amazing, and on top of that, you're also the co-founder of our business, Whisper and Thread, and this podcast is all about self-talk because we're we're passionate about self-talk, but I want you to share a little bit about why we started Whisper and Thread, and it relates a lot to this podcast too, but tell me more about Whisper and Thread and the self-talk that's part of that brand.
00:06:15
Speaker
So it all started with you and I, um you know, we chat nearly every day. And um I'm a mom of two girls, and you're a mom of one beautiful girl. And we often would chat about the world out there and the challenges that not only us meet, but our babies. And um I mentioned to you that, you know, our love language or my love language were words of affirmation. And I said, wouldn't it just be wonderful if the kids could wear our affirmations to them on a daily basis, and that it would be just a small daily reminder on how great they are. And and and the love that we have for them could just be a little whisper or a little ah note saying, you've got this for the day. And um the most beautiful idea came about where words of affirmation you could wear on a daily basis and whisper and thread came through. And so...
00:07:24
Speaker
yeah with With your amazing help, we have created this amazing brand that um talks to to not only yourself, the person that's giving the affirmation to the person you love, but allowing the person that you're giving the affirmation to to wear it. to think about it on a daily basis. And so, yeah, that's where Whisper and Thread i'm came about with your with your effort affirming my love, your love to me and me affirming my love to you, Whisper and Thread. It was it. And now it's award-winning. And now it's an award-winning brand. And it's it's actually a really fun brand. And it's a crazy, kooky entrepreneurship journey that we've started with that and the ups and downs with it. And I know that you and I have had to tackle each other's self-talk with that a lot.
The Power of Self-Talk and Confidence
00:08:17
Speaker
You know, there have been days when you've been spurring me on and saying, no, no, sister, like we've got to keep going. And there's been days where I'm like, no, we've got this. We're going to make it happen. And and it's um it's been
00:08:29
Speaker
a really enlightening journey, I think, and and a ah huge learning journey for both of us, hasn't it? Yeah, for sure. It's been like, you know, ah you know with when it comes to self-talk, how you perceive yourself,
00:08:46
Speaker
um yourself is the mirror that you're wanting to portray out to the rest of the world. And if you are not, if you don't have a healthy mind, your heart won't beat um yeah bravely to, to, to feel what's out there. And then your resilience to the world and the challenges that it gives you starts to crumble. So yeah, whisper and thread that's how important it is to me and to you um about, and for our children, because we we We create this beautiful environment for our families inside our homes, inside our arms, but they they go out and then they start having all these negative talk and around them. They just have to stand firm. And so self-talk, is to me, is is one of the the most important aspects that you have to master in the world today.
00:09:51
Speaker
So tell me about your self-talk then. I mean, you've had this amazing journey and I remember you going through that journey and going to Kenya and you were there for so long and I really missed you
Overcoming Challenges and Building Relationships
00:10:00
Speaker
while you were gone. And you came back a changed person, but in such a good way, a more confident person. But tell me about your self-talk through all of that. I know and you mentioned, you know, you came out of school, you weren't sure what you were going to do. And I know that there were times in school also that you lost some of your confidence. Like what were some of the self-talk that you've had to challenge through your journey because i think you've even like under your sold yourself i'm I'm so I'm your sister so I can talk you up because my sister has been the general manager of some pretty amazing pretty amazing hospitality venues and I'm I'm talking she's met some pretty high up and amazing people and I'm not gonna tell that story for it but you know, she's, she's damn good at what she does. And she's damn good at creating relationships with her teams and with P and stakeholders all around her. So I want to know, Tanya, like what's the self-talk that goes in your head because you don't talk yourself up. And I want to know like what's going on in you when other people can see the greatness in you and you aren't speaking that greatness necessarily. Yeah, that's a good one, my sister, because you know,
00:11:10
Speaker
growing up with um with a brother and a sister that naturally um portrayed confidence, um had the most beautiful, um you know, I've always battled with the command of a language, my English. um You know, I was told at school that I wasn't the sharpest tool in the shed. um i had to really work hard for my marks. that They didn't come naturally to me. So I always, i always felt that I was um trudging through mud because of me being Tanya. And, and, and then going to high school, naturally teachers, they are good teachers and not so great teachers. And so I had teachers telling me that, um, I was the black sheep of the family because I couldn't sing. i couldn't perform, ah you know, um, on stage, like most of my family, I wasn't that great in school sport because I, ah put all my, my love and my, and my, my energy into horse riding. And it wasn't you know a school sport at the time. um So, yeah, so you know, the competition was was heavy. ah i wasn't that good looking or attractive, pretty, you know, because I had a unique style. I still today have a very unique style. And so, i know, I wasn't that feminine in school. And so
00:12:43
Speaker
Yeah, so ah I remember one of my brother's friends um telling, oh, she's she's like an ugly duckling that will turn into a swan one day. And that that that caught my attention. I was thinking, hey, yeah, you know, yeah, I am going to become a swan. But I'm a little bit i'm a little bit impatient. But it came. it did come. But it only came once I started to believe that it was going to come.
00:13:10
Speaker
that I was going to become a swan, that I am a swan. And so that self-talk had to start with me. And so, yeah, going, going, becoming a hotel manager um made me believe this and made me realize this, is that I was a manager, not of a hotel, not not of walls and the greatest cutlery and the best Egyptian cotton sheets. And i was a manager of people and everyday people that would come to work and they needed to shine. And how were they going to shine um was by believing that they were swans.
00:14:01
Speaker
And so how do you do that? And so every day i would go into work knowing that I had an extraordinary extraordinary team, um but I needed to make them believe that. And so how how did I start making them believe that they were swans? And you started I started believing in them.
00:14:27
Speaker
um And that that comes natural to me. yeah It does come natural to you. And I remember when you became a swan, ah well, in my mind, i remember that the time that you became a swan to me, where I saw your confidence. My sister entered a beauty pageant as part of her uni and and she, my sister came out on the stage in this amazing dress.
00:14:53
Speaker
ah that was, you know, kind of revealing just enough, but totally enclosed, but just revealing, it was see-through. And I remember she walked onto the stage and my sister is is is older than me, so I was still quite young, but the whole room just went silent and went, you know, and she looked stunning. But what was most stunning wasn't the dress, it wasn't how she looked, but was it actually the way she carried herself and her confidence walking onto that stage. And I was in that moment just entranced with my sister.
00:15:23
Speaker
And I knew that I wanted to have the poise of my sister from that day. Like I wanted to be like my sister. And I've never told you that. Like you really, you shun shone so much in that moment that I was like, I want to have that confidence one day. And it's funny because you sit there going, oh, and I needed my sister's confidence. But meanwhile, your sister was modeling herself of you, you know.
00:15:45
Speaker
It's weird because, you know, I often i often um speak about entering that beauty competition, you know. are we allowed to s swear on this podcast? Yeah, I guess so.
00:15:57
Speaker
shit scared. was so scared to enter that beauty competition. But that's, I think is what resilience is all about, um, actually taking that fear and start molding it to something that you want it to become. And so ah so learning a skill, um,
00:16:20
Speaker
yeah being out of your comfort zone. Louisa, i was so scared entering that beauty competition because I didn't know how to use high heels.
00:16:31
Speaker
I had never used, I still today battled to use makeup. um i was the i was the ah the the one of the finalists that I was the only finalist that had short hair. um All the other finalists had beautiful, long flowing hair. um I was the only um student that was in a ah male dominated course in nature conservation. And so all these things I felt they were against me.
00:17:02
Speaker
In actual fact, they just um brought out the uniqueness in me.
Coaching and Leadership Insights
00:17:07
Speaker
And so, um yeah and remember. What made you join it? What made you join it? I just, I'm interested. I've never asked you that question. Why did you even join the pageant?
00:17:17
Speaker
Because I wanted to prove myself that I could walk in high heels. I see. if
00:17:24
Speaker
Well, you did. I don't know. No. and yet And you know what it also was, and this is materialistic, um you know, ah enthusiasm, but they were there was a car up for so for grabs and I wanted a car. And so needless to say, no, I i didn't win the competition, but um I came out winning Miss Personality. And so to me,
00:17:50
Speaker
um ah there was just such a big confidence boost because I wear my heart on my sleeve. What you see is what you get with me. And so i i realized that that um it's okay to be Tanya. Yeah. and so And how do I teach people to be okay with who they are? Yeah. It's just to be who you are.
00:18:16
Speaker
And you know, Tanya, you are still Miss Personality. Yeah. because i promise you that personality of yours is a magnet. And I want to delve more into that today. Like, cause I know that that's what you bring to your consulting and your coaching and how you can use what what is it about you that makes you a magnet? What makes you miss personality? I love that you talk about getting your team to believe in themselves. So let's delve into that. Like what is relational resilience? What does that mean?
00:18:47
Speaker
How do you do that? What what is the miss personality about you that you are helping others find in themselves?
00:18:56
Speaker
Probably too many questions in there. There's lots of questions in there. Pick one. Yeah. I think you should not be afraid or you can't be afraid to bring heart to the boardroom.
00:19:08
Speaker
um You know, heart surpasses head for me when it comes to leadership. And um if you can, if you can if you can bring a boardroom together, if you can bring a team in together, knowing very well that they you know fear is is part of your daily life, ambition is part of your daily life, um disappointment is part of your daily we life.
00:19:39
Speaker
But what brings everything together is gratitude. And so if you're able just make sure that your mind looks for gratitude in the simplest of things,
00:19:53
Speaker
um Every single day. And I'm saying every single day. You will then make sure that you um live in hope.
00:20:07
Speaker
um And so I think that's that's me. Is that I wake up every single day. And I don't see today as what it is. But what it could become.
00:20:19
Speaker
I really do that. Every single day I wake up and think. Hang on. this day can become the best day of my life. And so how do I do that with the rest of the people that live with me? I tell them that.
00:20:34
Speaker
I tell them that. I say, just let's go and make this day the best day possible. It can become that.
00:20:45
Speaker
And it's worked up until now. I love that for the first time ever with a podcast guest, I can attest to what they're saying and say, yep, what she's saying is accurate because I've witnessed her doing these things. It's so good.
00:21:02
Speaker
I'm like, yep, that's that's accurate. That's Tanya. um Yeah, I just, I love that about you. You are you are very optimistic, but realistically optimistic too. You you don't, you're not blind optimism.
00:21:16
Speaker
and you You are optimistic in a realistic way. you acknowledge challenges too. And, you know, for you, you acknowledge when things are tough, but you know what to do to to keep things going.
Building Community and Trust
00:21:31
Speaker
Is that what you do like to maintain relationships too? Because we've talked about like, you know, your your so your zone of genius is is building relationships. I just want to give an example because I'm i'm not sure Tanya will say this about herself, but if you if you spend time with Tanya in her community or wherever she is, right?
00:21:53
Speaker
Be prepared that if you're walking with her anywhere, you're not going to be talking to her very much because she knows everybody. She knows everybody. So you'll be walking and conversing with her and the next minute she'll stop and she'll know some random person on the street And she'll know them by name and she will very often have something in her handbag to give them because she knew she was going to see them there. And then she gives them stuff and then you'll be walking along and then she knows somebody else and she'll have a conversation with them. She knows everybody, but she doesn't just know them. They are so happy to see you, Tanya.
00:22:28
Speaker
And ah to give you an example, my sister, Tanya, you moved to Portugal a couple of years ago. So you're out of your comfort zone in your community. We'll talk about that in a little bit. But Tanya moved to Portugal. She's living in a very regional area, like like regional area, where it's very traditional area. It's a small, tiny little village. All right. They're very closed off people. They they don't necessarily want to connect with outsiders. I went to visit Tanya there and I walked into the butcher shop. I walked into the butcher shop to buy meat.
00:23:02
Speaker
And, you know, I'm talking to them in Portuguese and I didn't tell them who my sister was, but they recognized that we look similar. And they straight away asked me, oh, you're Tanya's sister. And I'm like, yes, how do you know? Oh yeah, we yeah I can see your Tanya's sister. And then they proceeded to tell me everything that they love about Tanya.
00:23:22
Speaker
And like, what what place does that? Who does that? What store does that when they know exactly who somebody is and then they recognize their family and they welcome them in because of the the family member. So Tanya, like that's that's your zone of genius.
00:23:37
Speaker
What do you do to make that happen? What do you do to create those relationships and connect with people in that way where you're a stranger and they welcome you with open arms and they give you stuff?
00:23:48
Speaker
Tell those stories about people giving you things and how you connect with them. Tell us some more about that.
00:23:55
Speaker
yeah i Yeah, you know,
00:23:59
Speaker
i I say this all the time. You know, people often ask you what your superpower is. And ah my superpower is I attract good people to me.
00:24:11
Speaker
And so then i think, well, it could also be the other way around is that people are attracted to, to me because I would like to believe I'm a good person.
00:24:23
Speaker
I live by my values. Um, and they important to me. Um, but I love, I, ah I can't say it any simpler by saying that i I really thrive on getting to know someone so that I can earn their trust.
00:24:44
Speaker
i I am the happiest when I know that this person who knows me can trust me because then it because then I'm a good person.
00:24:58
Speaker
And so i I go out of my way to meet someone, not just by face, but by name and whats what makes them wake up in the morning.
00:25:14
Speaker
It's not necessarily their job, but it's their children. it's It's their wives. It's the fact that they want to make their homes more beautiful. It's the fact that they want to buy a gift for their mother.
00:25:32
Speaker
um I want to know that. i want to know what makes that person be who they are and who they want to be and who they want to become. And if if the universe has made my life cross a path with their life, it means I need to make it worth it.
00:25:57
Speaker
And ah I need to make it worth it for them as well as me. And so I need to earn their trust. And how do you earn people's trust is how are you feeling today? And listen, and how's your mother?
00:26:11
Speaker
What's your mother's name? Where did your mom live? ah Do you like pets? Do you have dogs? ah Are you afraid of them? What's your favorite meal?
00:26:22
Speaker
And then the conversation just blows up. And you made that person feel needed. And to me, when somebody needs me, it's the best feeling in the world.
00:26:39
Speaker
Yeah, that's so true. It's so true. And that is exactly what you do. You know people, details of people's life. And it's amazing. And you know, that reminds me of, um I don't know if you've heard it recently, you may have, you may not have, but you know, Brene Brown, she did um that famous TED talk about shame. I don't know, you know, but she was recently on a um diary of a CEO podcast and she talks about um putting marbles in a jar to build trust And that is what you do. The marbles are questions like remembering details about somebody's life. And when you do that, you put a marble in the jar. And when you filled that jar up with marbles, you've got trust from them.
00:27:21
Speaker
And i think you, when I heard that her talking about that, I ah thought of you straight away because you do that effortlessly. effortlessly you you don't even have to think about it and um I love that that's the example you gave of what you do because you do and you remember such random things about people it makes me giggle and at the same time I'm in awe of it because you do it so well you do it so well and is that what you do with your teams when you were leading lots of teams yeah so you know we you have your morning briefings and morning briefings at the hotel is you know preparing the days the day's list, the guest list, your your guests that are arriving, the guests that are leaving, um what rooms need attention. and you know It's all the the mundane um of running a business. um But what I used to do the last minute was of the briefing, regardless um who was waiting outside, we did this, is that I would come up with a random question and everybody would
00:28:28
Speaker
around the the room needed to answer it. um Initially, I had a bit of resistance because, you know, we we all deal with different personality types and some are, you know, some people are private, others too much information. I'm one of those people.
00:28:44
Speaker
And so, but it was okay because it started creating this um family in the business feel. So I didn't necessarily want to know um you know, the real intimate part of your life, because quite frankly, only only Ryan, my husband, knows the intimate part of Tanya. um But, you know, in order to create trust, you needed to know a little bit more below the skin surface. So I would come up with questions like, anybody willing to share their dream last night?
00:29:27
Speaker
And the first day, not many people said anything. The second day, i would ask the same question. And one person would put up and said, Yeah, I actually dreamt about this and this and this. And then people started to understand that we could actually converse outside of business talk.
00:29:44
Speaker
And we started forming relationship outside of business hours talk. So If I had to say, if I remember one of my staff members, Pumlisa, who was a housekeeper, and if I if i didn't identify her as the housekeeper, but as Pumlisa, who had two children and a mom that lived with her that looked after her kids while she worked, would
00:30:14
Speaker
I started to know that or understand more than her her skill. I started to know more what was in her heart and in her head and not just her hands, right? So skill wasn't just the only thing that created the relationship between me and her. And I remember very clearly the one day Ryan saying to me, um how can we gain people's trust even more? And I said, well,
00:30:44
Speaker
um um I'm almost certain that um our staff family members don't even know where they work or you know in in the environment they work. So we had a family day and it was the first time ever that staff members were were allowed to to invite families to their workplace and automatically it created this this relationship that was beyond the title.
00:31:21
Speaker
to my to my staff and so they didn't only see me as Tanya the manager they saw me as Tanya who had two children who had um a mom and a dad um you know so they started to understand my aspirations and my dreams and my fears and so i was Tanya first and not my manager first right yeah it makes complete sense and I love I love that because it's just it I think what you're appealing to is the humanity of your team and the, you know, and the humanity in yourself as a leader too.
Trust and Resilience in Leadership
00:32:00
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, what does, what does, mean, yeah what happens when you lose, what happens when you lose trust? What's the self-talk inside? And if you have gone through this, like what, what's the self-talk inside a leader who has lost trust and,
00:32:20
Speaker
you know, what can they do to stay in that and help repair that damage? Yeah, that's very important because you're going to lose it often um because you're a leader. So the feeling of leadership is that I need to be strong. I need to show and do by example. And so we are fearless. We, you know, we, we, we,
00:32:47
Speaker
got to be strong all the time. um But I tell you what, when you start losing the trust of your team or you start losing connection, I've seen on personal experience is because I've taken something away from them and I've taken a power away from them. So I've always said this to my to people that I work with and and help is that it's two hands, right? a leader,
00:33:17
Speaker
and yourself or the person you're working with. If you both are pushing together, neither are going to fall. So power must meet with power.
00:33:32
Speaker
But the moment you take power away, someone becomes weak and weak and power don't work together. Weak and weak does not work together.
00:33:44
Speaker
Power and power works together. So always remember this as a leader, is the moment you start disconnecting is because you've removed power away from somebody. You've now taken the authority. How do you replace the authority? You start a dialogue, you start a conversation, and you say to them, so what is it that you would like from me?
00:34:18
Speaker
And if you had had that power or that trust before, remember, you'd already created this relationship with your team that you can actually ask this question because it is fear has come into the relationship.
00:34:33
Speaker
You can say, what is it that you would like to see today? It's all back to that hope. It's all back to that gratitude. It's all those little building blocks that you've created as a leader. So when that disconnection does come,
00:34:48
Speaker
You can use all those little tools that you have created through the months of working together. That power then meets power. And that's, yeah, that's exactly what it is.
00:35:00
Speaker
I love that. I love that. and And nobody's ever explained it to me. And I love, and it's not just hierarchical power. It's not like just, you know, demoting somebody, but people feeling powerless in, you know, going through change. If there's a big change going on or powerless through a decision that's been made that they, have to, you know, shift something that they're doing. And it's, you know, that's the kind of power you're also talking about, because and that is so true. I've never thought of it in that way. And if you do it right, it is about holding, you know, holding each other together like that. And I love that analogy. I'm going to steal that from you, by the way, in my consulting.
00:35:40
Speaker
good yeah You can keep using it in your consulting too.
00:35:49
Speaker
ah I'm allowed to because I'm your sister. um I mean, also tell me about like holding, tell me about holding things together as a leader, you know, and, you know, because you've, you've touched on it about, you know, this perception that you have to stay strong. This is something I'm very passionate about. And it's lot of the work that I do. is yeah you know leadership resilience. So you and I cross over really quite nicely with this because you talk about relationship resilience and you come at it from that regard and relationships are a huge part of resilience, but I come in it from um resilience from practical strategies that you can do to stay steady because there is a misconception out there that resilience is about being strong.
00:36:36
Speaker
I'm strong, I'm tough, I don't cry, I'm very resilient because I never show emotions when things are tough. And that is absolutely not what resilience is at all. And for me, resilience is in steadiness and remaining steady, but actual steadiness and calm. So what advice do you have for leaders who go through a period of burnout or go through a period of disconnect,
00:37:03
Speaker
um How can they stay compassionate? How can they stay present when they're feeling burnt out? And for me, burnout happens when they've been portraying this mask of strength and fake confidence for too long. So what's your advice to those people who may be in that?
00:37:24
Speaker
but You know, so sister, it's it's it's like... Well, we can't be strong every single day. And so ah leaders, yes, leaders have to show, you know, that we can hold fort.
00:37:40
Speaker
But we can't hold fort alone. That's why an army, you know, it's an army of people. So, um Burnout happens and that's what it is.
00:37:57
Speaker
It's burnout. It's not who you are. And so i i I feel that currently Australia. where we are now, um having immigrated and going through some um ah challenges of of immigration and and, yeah, serious and and burnout is is can happen. And what I've what i've come to do
00:38:33
Speaker
to understand and what I used to do with the team and my, my, my, the team, the people that I worked with is that you acknowledge it. You acknowledge your weakness because we, we, we have our challenges and, and acknowledge the fact that we, we human and that, um, building is constant and that you need to,
00:39:02
Speaker
Allow it space and and and respect it and know that you know what you know and know what you don't know.
Vulnerability and Support in Leadership
00:39:13
Speaker
And mention that. Be authentic with it. And I think burnout won't happen when you allow people to hold you up and to support you.
00:39:30
Speaker
And um we are all leaders. You know, we, we're leaders of our own lives. We are leaders of our, of our own destiny. And so as leaders, you need to acknowledge that you need to acknowledge that you you're a leader because people want you to lead.
00:39:50
Speaker
um But you can only lead when, when they give you the baton to lead. And so now and again, you have to pass on the baton and say, i need help.
00:40:05
Speaker
And help could be, i need to rest. um An hour a day, like you had mentioned a few bet and few weeks back, I enjoyed your conversation, where you say, no, you know there's there's an hour a day where it belongs to no one but yourself, so that you can regroup and put and discipline yourself and your time and um honor that honor that that that time that you need yourself to make sure that you don't um don't allow those challenges to to override your overall person that you are i think i agree you know like that support is going to help you through that. It's 100%. But what's what's the self-talk of somebody, because I know this about you, that struggles with the notion of I don't want to be a burden?
00:41:17
Speaker
Yeah. um My self-talk to myself is i believe. believe belief Believe what has been honored to you.
00:41:34
Speaker
Believe it. So when someone says to you, Tans, you've got this. Believe it. If someone has honored you that time to tell you that, believe it.
00:41:49
Speaker
So my self-talk to myself is that when someone says to me, you're a good person, I have to say to myself, believe it, Tanya.
00:42:03
Speaker
Believe it. I am a good person.
00:42:08
Speaker
That is so powerful. It really is. And it like it just reminds me of conversation I had um with somebody else on this podcast, one of my other guests, and she was saying to me how she's had to learn in her journey to to to get help and to rely on the help And it's something that she had to work really hard on to allow people to help her in her leadership journey and not to try do it all but on her own and not to be honest by herself and how difficult that is sometimes as leaders to do that.
00:42:41
Speaker
And I don't, I've been through that struggle too, as a leader of not being, and of showing the vulnerability of needing help sometimes, right? And I think there's this misconception that You have to have it all together because if you don't, you're not good, you know.
00:43:01
Speaker
And I just don't think it's realistic for us all to have it all together all the time.
00:43:07
Speaker
You know, it's not. And we we can't be afraid to say that sometimes and then also accept the help Yeah. it's it's It's impossible, my sister. You know that I am a deep faith person.
00:43:22
Speaker
um You know that um you know ah my faith makes me believe that there is a higher power and that God is there for me. And that, you know, ah what I'm trying to say is that hardships are on this earth.
00:43:47
Speaker
And we know why. um and you can't go through life thinking that life is just about rainbows and puppies.
00:44:00
Speaker
it's It's not. And so you got to you got to you've got to believe in yourself and the resilience of knowing that fear is going to be there all the time, but you can overcome that fear.
Adapting to Change and Gratitude
00:44:17
Speaker
Because it's okay to be not okay. Because it's not going to be like that all the time. Moving to Portugal has taught me that life can be very unpredictable.
00:44:39
Speaker
And that never say never. um And it's taught me how amazing the human being can be if you allow it to take it it's it's its course or its run.
00:45:03
Speaker
ah I cannot believe what I have managed to do in the last three years of of us living here in Portugal.
00:45:15
Speaker
and sitting back and thinking that Ryan and i and our whole family of 10, 11 plus one, the dog, have managed to create a new life for us here with very, very little.
00:45:43
Speaker
And the resilience that it's teaching my children, and it it has not come easy, um especially for my youngest, forra for Ray, for little Ray,
00:46:00
Speaker
um it it just shows me that we are really strong humans.
00:46:12
Speaker
um and that you can overcome a lot if you believe that there is better to come.
00:46:26
Speaker
And gratitude brings gratitude. um Gratitude brings a whole new different look in life.
00:46:39
Speaker
um making sure that you that you don't see the challenge that as an identity, but you see it as an opportunity,
00:46:56
Speaker
um truly makes things seem a little easier for you or make things a lot easier for you. Yeah, and I love that you haven't, you know, you're not, you you haven't walked away from the things that make you you and building relationships and how you've just transferred that into a new community. And i just love, you know, ah i know some of the self-talk that you have just from our conversations on a daily basis. And I sit here and I just see all of the proof showing you the exact opposite, you know, simple things
00:47:34
Speaker
ah simple things like You've moved to Portugal and you were so worried about, i don't speak Portuguese as well as you and our brother, you know, and you've got, and you've moved to Portugal and you are the de facto translator for a family of 10 other than our mother who's there and who also speaks Portuguese, right? And you've just done it marvelously, you know, and you you've gone there and you've set up from scratch and you've built from nothing and you and Ryan are rebuilding
00:48:07
Speaker
The house that my sister is in right now that she's filming in, I tell you, that when I saw it last, it was a ruin. It was literally stones on the ground and her and her husband are rebuilding that with their own hands and And, you know, you say that you've gone to Portugal you're starting in the end and you've got nothing and you're creating this amazing structure for your whole family, you know. And so all of this evidence around you usually is pointing to the opposite of what your self-talk is telling you.
00:48:39
Speaker
And I'm in this unique opportunity now in this podcast to know the self-talk that my guest has. And to also see the evidence against the self-talk. And that's why this podcast
Conclusion and Final Thoughts
00:48:51
Speaker
exists, right? Because very often our self-talk is not the reality.
00:48:56
Speaker
And the first voice that we have is often the voice of fear and doubt. And the second voice is the voice that comes quietly when we allow ourselves to feel safe.
00:49:07
Speaker
And I know in this conversation, in the conversation that you and I have tons, like That's when you and I feel safe because we're talking to somebody that we feel feel safe with. And then that allows our second voice, the voice that tells us it's okay, we will be fine.
00:49:23
Speaker
That's why we feel so rejuvenated after those conversations because it allows that second voice that calms the doubt to come out, right, and shows us that there's this other side.
00:49:35
Speaker
And, yeah you know, I love that you've shown that. For sure. You know, we always talk about the the two voices in your head. And so I love this podcast that you're saying, the second voice. there's There's that loud voice, the self-talk, that's the negative self-talk. Oh, it's not going to happen, blah, blah, blah. And then there's that little whisper in the back. Yes, I can. You know, it's that little train.
00:50:00
Speaker
I know I can. I know I can. Yes, I can. And it's up to us to make that the loud voice. um And yes, there there's always going to be anesic negativity in us. And um probably the one thing that that we as leaders or people that have us as self-talk is get somebody to remind you to turn down that negative talk. And with me, you.
00:50:34
Speaker
it's you So if I have that, you know, if I have that, that, that knob, that volume knob of that negative self-talk coming, I know, i know straight away, you know, to call you or to send you a message. So that's also important to tell people, sister, is that you need to find that somebody that you can just help me turn down the volume.
00:51:03
Speaker
um then that's with leaders too. You find you find that somebody to confide in. Yeah, 100%. And it comes back down to that relational resilience because your and I relationship, I wouldn't say is the standard sister relationship, right?
00:51:24
Speaker
And like some people have very good relationships with their sisters and I would say we have an exceptionally good relationship, but it wasn't always like that. You and I did not get on when I was young and you were a teenager and our relationship came much later when we were both older adults. but it's a really unique relationship that you and I have, I would say as sisters, because you, I feel like in in a way you're kind of like my soulmates in many ways. Like I'm just meant to have you in my life. Like I'm that connected to you.
00:51:56
Speaker
And, but that relationship we've, we've had to forge out of some really difficult times where we didn't talk to each other for many, many years, not very much anyway. And so It's true. You have to find those people and then you have to work at that relationship. And then you find these gems of relationships that you don't walk away from when things are tough and you, you stay connected. Right. And that's, it's like, it's hard, you know, because there are times when family, family relationships are difficult too. And, you know, it's, <unk>s like, what, what do you do through that? You know?
00:52:32
Speaker
It is, you know, that that that's the the the the word of expectation is is is a hard one to to define when it comes to relationships. what ah What is my expectation of having a relationship with, and now I'm talking to you, right, um of you, and my expectation is is is is love.
00:52:59
Speaker
And the moment I realize that that's what I want from you, is love, everything just comes naturally with that. And so expectation, if don't lower it, don't don't far exceed it, just make it a realistic expectation. And that's with leadership too, and also with self-talk. What's my expectation within myself with self-talk? I'm not going to say, well, I'm going to be a millionaire today. What are my expectations? I want to be kind.
00:53:35
Speaker
You know, my expectation is kindness. I want to be kind to everybody. And that self-talk in within me, it just starts creating this amazing blow up of confidence because confidence plays a very big part in leadership as well. I have to be confident in myself to know that I can lead people. How?
00:53:54
Speaker
I need to believe in myself that I am a kind person. And so, see So it all just comes together and it's just this intricate part of of understanding what your values are and and what do you expect from them.
00:54:11
Speaker
Tans, you are just showing all of the, like you just talk all of the and parts of resilience that I talk about all the time, knowing your values and also, you know, um the way you demonstrate how you see the world, you don't let the negative aspects cloud over and define what the world looks like for you. You allow yourself to see the positive stuff. These are all, and like social connection is a huge part of resilience building.
00:54:37
Speaker
All of the things that you do naturally and that you talk about and that you build into your relational resilience stuff is is out there, well-documented research around what builds resilience in people. And I and absolutely just love that you embody it on a day-to-day person, a day-to-day basis.
00:54:57
Speaker
And um i know that you wouldn't call yourself a strong person, but I know that you are a resilient person and you do so with such humility and grace and you do so with such amazing connection to people. and You're incredible.
00:55:13
Speaker
But look, we've been talking for ah for an hour now and i could talk, I mean, you're my sister, i could talk to you all day. yeah, but I'm going to have to call it call it quits there.
00:55:24
Speaker
is Is there a final tip that you can give people listening around self-talk or relational resilience, anything at all? What what can you do what what tip can you give listeners? oh Gosh, that's a hard one for me because it changes.
00:55:41
Speaker
It really does because circumstances change. So a different Tanya is required every, you know, a compassion is a compassion to me is, is probably the most important thing.
00:56:00
Speaker
And to have compassion to the person in front of you, even when you're looking in the mirror, I just have a bit of compassion and the world will be compassionate back. I know that.
00:56:15
Speaker
Yeah. hundred percent. You're changing the world sis. And you've got amazing things coming away. You're, You're running two businesses yourself, consulting with me, with Vermello. You're amazing. And I just know that you're going to go fast. Where can people get a hold of you? You do work in relational resilience. You work with leaders. You work with leaders and teams individually and coaching, I believe. Where can they get hold of you and how can they get in touch and what can they get in touch with you for?
00:56:43
Speaker
Right, so yeah, on all the social media platforms through Vermeilo. So you can get onto the website, you go on Instagram, um also through our Whisper and Thread um Facebook and Instagram accounts. You can also connect with me there. I'm also on LinkedIn. And um yeah, so you can just um probably the safest and ah viable ways through the Vermeilo website. um just to connect with me there.
00:57:13
Speaker
Also, just go and have a look at Vermelo's account. with um I i ah post some videos on my daily afternoon walks, which I absolutely love. And it's just there where I are actually, in my very authentic way, because um try and explain what leadership's all about through through nature.
00:57:38
Speaker
nature is a beautiful thing to to teach, um some very valuable life lessons. And so go go go ah go there. And, um yeah, I'm sure you, Louisa, will will add all the information that is required if people want to touch base with me. Specifically, um i would love to work with new leaders um and just give, you know, Not to ah hand out such a thing, but to it's a holding hand service that I would love to to have with all of you.
00:58:17
Speaker
Well, sister, it's been an absolute pleasure having you on this podcast. Thank you for making time out of your busy day, renovating your house and running your business and whisper and thread stuff and Vermello stuff. I know that your days are busy and family things. So I really appreciate you making time for this. And, um, if you want to connect with Tanya, please do. I'll put all of the links in the show notes of this show.
00:58:44
Speaker
you will not regret working with Tanya because she will make as good a relationship with you as I see her making with everybody. And I know that you'll have a wonderful time doing it. So thank you, Tanya. If you're listening now, what I have taken out of this podcast today is that self-talk comes with a little bit of facing your self-talk with courage and building relationships also takes courage and also seeing the humanity in your teams and in the humanity in the people around you and also the humanity in yourself. So I'm sure you've enjoyed this podcast as much as I have. What a treat to be speaking to my sister who is just a gun in everything she does too. And I know that you will appreciate i'm hearing today. So thanks sister. I'll talk to you soon.
00:59:29
Speaker
Lots of love. Lots of love. To everyone else, thanks for joining us on the Second Voice Podcast. We'll see you soon. Take care.