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00:00:01
Why Most Founders Can’t Step Away (Even When They Want To) with Rich Aston
42 Plays13 days ago
Most founders say they want to step back—but when the moment comes, they don’t. Not because they can’t… but because they don’t trust what happens next. And the real question is: is that about your team, or about you?
My guest is Rich Aston. During his 45 year career owning small businesses Rich Ashton became frustrated about the choice between bringing in outside leadership talent who didn't fit the culture of his organizations versus promoting excellent, but unprepared existing employees into leadership positions. He developed a training program to develop leaders in his own company which was so successful he was able to retire and leave management of his businesses to his leadership team. His book, "Growing Your Own, common sense advice for developing leaders in small business" is a guide to the principles taught in the training course. The book has been described as "practical, actionable and based on Ashton's real world experience in small business.
Connect with Rich: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rich-ashton-397a2b10/
At The Second Voice, we explore the inner conversations leaders rarely say out loud.
If this episode resonated, it is likely because the second voice is active in your leadership too.
Hosted by Luisa Hogan, leadership resilience strategist and founder of Vermelho Consulting.
Luisa works with founders, executives, and senior leaders who carry real responsibility and want to lead with steadiness, clarity, and self-trust under pressure.
Her work focuses on nervous system regulation, leadership identity, and the inner dialogue that shapes how leaders show up when things are hard.
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Transcript
00:00:02
Luisa Hogan
Most founders say that way they want to step back from their business, but the moment that the opportunity comes, many of them don't. Not because they can't, but because they don't trust what happens next. They need to be able to trust who they're bringing into their team can do exactly what they've been doing in their business for sometimes many years. And the real question is, is that a about the team or the people that you're bringing in to help you, or is that about you?
00:00:32
Luisa Hogan
Welcome back to the second voice where we uncover the conversations that leaders don't say out loud. And I'm your host Louisa Hogan. And today we're getting into the tension that every founder hits at some point as they scale their business. And that is the desire to step away from the business or step back from the business that they built.
00:00:51
Luisa Hogan
And then the voice that might not let them do that. And I have an absolutely fantastic guest with me today to help me explore this all the way from ah from ah Texas. His name is Rich Astin and he has a 45-year career owning small businesses, which I so admire as a business owner myself. And in that time, he became very frustrated about the choice between bringing in outside leadership talent who didn't fit the culture of his organizations versus promoting excellent but unprepared existing employees into leadership positions.
00:01:27
Luisa Hogan
And as a result, he's developed a training program to develop leaders in his own company, which was so successful, he was able to retire and leave management of his businesses to his leadership team. And I can't wait to hear what that's all about as I'm scaling my own business myself.
00:01:44
Luisa Hogan
And he's also written ah a book called Growing Your Own Common Sense Advice for Developing Leaders in Small Business. It's a guide to ah the principles taught in his training course and the book has been described as practical, actionable and based on Rich's real world experience in small business. Well Rich I am so thrilled that you are here to join me today all the way in Australia and you all the way on the other side of the world. Thank you so much for being here.
00:02:11
Rich Ashton
Well, thank you so much for the invitation. This is a conversation I love having.
00:02:15
Luisa Hogan
Oh, I'm so glad to hear it. So i've I've given a little bit of an intro about you, but I'd love to hear more about your business journey. I know that's a long span, 45 years, incredible and inspiring, but tell me a little bit more about that journey and and and the path that you took.
00:02:31
Rich Ashton
Sure. it And it actually started about 55 years ago. And when I got out of the Navy, I joined a company called Trammell Crow, which is a large real estate developer, but a very entrepreneurial company.
00:02:44
Rich Ashton
And I soon learned that I was in the midst of smart business. and driven people who really taught me so much about ethical business practices, about the importance of culture, about empowering people and the the power of empowering people.
00:03:05
Rich Ashton
And I just was, it was kind of dumb luck really to get to start my career there. i always knew I wanted to be in business for myself. So um I became a partner in that company, was a partner for five years and then sold my interest back to my partners and decided to pursue small business. So that was 1983, long time ago um i I did several things over the next five years. And in 1988, I purchased a nearly bankrupt HVAC company.
00:03:38
Rich Ashton
and And I still own those companies that that company today, which is now two companies. And along the way, i did I did a few other things. But since 1983, I have only been in small businesses. And I think I have owned eight different businesses across different industries during that time.
00:03:57
Luisa Hogan
That's incredible. I love how it was, like you say, it's dumb luck, but it was it was just meant to be, right? And it's so fantastic that you had that experience and you ended up there. And and from the Navy too, my my husband was in the Australian Navy, so he's going to love listening to you talk too as he's thinking about business too.
00:04:13
Rich Ashton
Ha ha ha ha.
00:04:15
Luisa Hogan
So ah I'd love to know you know, in that time, eight businesses, Was there a moment where you realized that you couldn't step away or tell me about the moments where you wanted to step away and perhaps there was some internal dialogue that was stopping you?
00:04:30
Luisa Hogan
Were there any moments like that? What does that sound like to you?
00:04:34
Rich Ashton
um I have loved being in business all along the way. Not every one of those businesses was a success, but I have loved the challenge. So until just recently, I was never tempted to step back.
00:04:47
Rich Ashton
I knew as I got older, i knew I was going to have to step back at some point, but um I was actually 76 when I retired last year. So I'd It's funny, it came about, I had been planning this for some time, but I didn't know exactly what the date would be. And one morning about a year ago, I got up and I said to my wife, if I didn't have to go in today, I wouldn't go. And she said, in 44 years of marriage, I've never heard you make that statement.
00:05:19
Rich Ashton
And that was when I knew it was time. But fortunately, i had begun preparing for that quite a bit early. So I guess that would be the moment. But it took a long, long time because I really have jumped out of bed looking forward to work virtually every day of my adult life.
00:05:33
Luisa Hogan
Yeah.
00:05:36
Luisa Hogan
Yeah. So, you know, there was never a time when it's like, oh, there was dread. I have to get rid of this, but I can't, you know, so you've always loved it. So then, you know, now you've made that decision. Now you're like, if I couldn't, you know, what do I do now?
00:05:50
Luisa Hogan
What was the next steps for you to, to start allowing yourself to step away?
00:05:56
Rich Ashton
So about, Eight years ago, I recognized that this day was coming. And i i knew i I had become frustrated, as you said in the intro, with the idea of bringing people from outside the organization in to be leaders.
00:06:12
Rich Ashton
And even though they were trained as leaders, they were not trained in small business. And small business, as you know, is a unique, it's a unique operation.
00:06:16
Luisa Hogan
Yeah.
00:06:21
Rich Ashton
And and for those of us that love small business and are entrepreneurial, it's fun. For those people who are a little more buttoned up, it's chaotic and it's frustrating. And, you know, instead of doing one, two or three things really well, you're asked to do 10 things in a day and some of them are not in your wheelhouse. So,
00:06:42
Rich Ashton
I decided that I was a lot better off if I could devise a program to train those loyal, motivated employees that I had surrounded myself with to become leaders because none of them really were very far along in leadership training.
00:06:59
Luisa Hogan
Mm-hmm.
00:06:59
Rich Ashton
But I thought it was so much better to take people already steeped in a small business culture and make leaders out of them if they were willing. So that's what that's what happened. And it didn't go it didn't go as smoothly as I as i would have liked.
00:07:14
Rich Ashton
The first program, I was trying to teach them to think like me, an entrepreneurial owner. And i' suddenly realized i wasn't going to be able to do that.
00:07:25
Rich Ashton
But it's okay because I didn't need more entrepreneurs. I needed leaders. um So I took a step back and I retooled the program.
00:07:29
Luisa Hogan
Mm-hmm.
00:07:34
Rich Ashton
And then about three and a half years ago began. i started by identifying what was holding people back from leadership roles and success in leadership roles. Once we identified those for each, there were eight people in the program. Once we identified those, then we began breaking through those ceilings that that were holding them back. And Along the way, I knew that something was missing and and for whatever reason, I decided to write a blog every two weeks to the management team. And it was kind of random.
00:08:11
Rich Ashton
It was about various management leadership issues. And it was they they were they were short. They were all concentrated on one leadership principle.
00:08:23
Rich Ashton
And at the end of two years, I had 52 blogs written. And one weekend I read through all of them and I said, gosh, I'm going to be leaving soon. I'm going to publish this as a book.
00:08:35
Rich Ashton
So I reduced the number from 52 to 35. So there are 35 chapters, each illustrating a separate leadership principle. That is the book Growing Your Own. And what it has become is a desktop reference. It's not a training program unto itself.
00:08:51
Rich Ashton
But it is something that an employee who is new to leadership can refer to and go, wait a minute. Chapter 14 was about procrastination and I'm I'm finding myself procrastinating.
00:09:04
Rich Ashton
Let me reread that chapter. The chapters are about two and a half pages long. So they're they're quick and they're simple and they're about principles that can be implemented today and you can see results tomorrow.
00:09:17
Rich Ashton
So that's how I trained the group to do it. We were successful. um Six out of the eight survived the program and became the leaders who now run the company.
00:09:28
Luisa Hogan
Amazing. ah I love that it's a little desktop tool and it's the short little chapters and it's so easy to use because,
00:09:36
Rich Ashton
Well, you have to understand who you're teaching. ah
00:09:39
Luisa Hogan
Yeah.
00:09:40
Rich Ashton
you know There's nothing wrong with a 400 page academic approach to leadership, but my people aren't gonna read it and my people are not gonna put it in place.
00:09:44
Luisa Hogan
Yeah.
00:09:49
Rich Ashton
So I happened to learn the way i was the the way I wound up teaching others. And so it was very natural for me to do that. But you can't you can't just expound on theories of leadership and expect blue collar people, particularly or inexperienced leaders to grab hold of those.
00:10:03
Luisa Hogan
Yeah.
00:10:08
Rich Ashton
So, but I do find that the simplicity of the concepts are very, is very, very simple for people to put in place.
00:10:08
Luisa Hogan
hundred percent.
00:10:16
Luisa Hogan
Yeah. And it's especially true in small business, right? Because you attract a different kind of workforce in small business.
00:10:19
Rich Ashton
Yes.
00:10:22
Luisa Hogan
It's, you know, And as you say, wear many hats. You wear many hats when you work in a small business and you are doing lots of different things. And so you just don't have the time to you know and the luxury to sit and learn very complex principles. And unfortunately, business owners will go out to leadership positions training experts to try train their leaders but as you say it's just too much and it's not practical and and and there for those people so i love that you put that thinking behind it um i will definitely do that yeah
00:10:55
Rich Ashton
Well, it was a little bit out of necessity. I began doing research and I had read a lot on leadership over the years. But as I looked for help um in books and online, there's very little written that's aimed at small businesses. And I was shocked, actually. That was the first time I was aware of that.
00:11:15
Rich Ashton
um And so the the book happens to fill a gap out there, even though there's millions of leadership books on the market. um This one is specifically designed for small business and for people in business who have not been exposed to a lot of leadership training.
00:11:30
Luisa Hogan
Yeah, amazing. I mean, in that time, had you promoted people who weren't ready for leadership? Had you tried to promote people?
00:11:36
Rich Ashton
I sure have.
00:11:37
Luisa Hogan
and And what was the what what happened in that situation? You know, was that creating more frustration? Like, what was what was happening there?
00:11:47
Rich Ashton
you know it was very empowering to them, but they soon learned that they simply had not been prepared for that level of leadership. So they either were not very good and we tried to continue to nurse them along without much success or we lost good employees.
00:12:03
Rich Ashton
They were so frustrated by the experience that that they wound up knowing they were in over their heads and decided to go back somewhere where they could do what they were really good at. But we also had the same problem with bringing in leaders from outside who became frustrated with the the culture of a small business.
00:12:21
Luisa Hogan
Yeah.
00:12:21
Rich Ashton
And then the the third problem is, is that if you go outside, the people who have been so loyal to you and have worked all these extra hours and just loved the chaos of the small business, all of a sudden were reporting to someone who had not been through the wars like they had.
00:12:38
Rich Ashton
and maybe had a different perspective on how things should be done. and And so that was very difficult. So that that that's what led me to say, if I can make leaders out of these people, that's that's really the best choice.
00:12:52
Luisa Hogan
amazing so inspiring I mean as you know this is a podcast about internal dialogue and self-talk tell me what have you had to confront within yourself while going through this process about you within you
00:13:06
Rich Ashton
I... um but When you are a business owner, you always kind of believe that your way is the best way. um In buying an HVAC company, I learned to delegate pretty quickly because I can't fix an air conditioner and I can't install an air conditioner. So I have been for for a long time, I've been dependent on others and I understand that concept.
00:13:31
Rich Ashton
um But there are some things that I know that I still do better. So it's hard for me to delegate always in the areas of strength. I'm particularly strong in vision and finance and marketing, and no one in the organization has those skills to the to the degree that I do.
00:13:49
Rich Ashton
So as I have stepped away, i still I still have weekly meetings with the president of the company who took over, who who was part of the training group. So I'm still involved a little bit,
00:14:00
Rich Ashton
But I made a decision that I was not going to set foot in the company, except for quarterly meetings where we went over financials.
00:14:10
Rich Ashton
And so I don't drop by. And that's real hard for me because I'm a very relational person and I miss the employees.
00:14:14
Luisa Hogan
Yeah. Yeah.
00:14:19
Rich Ashton
And I know in some cases they miss me being around. um So that was one of the the internal talks I had was that regardless of of whether people are saying, hey, you need to come back, we'd love to see you. And my own gut is saying, boy, I'd love to see these people and find out what's going on.
00:14:36
Rich Ashton
I promised myself that it wasn't going to happen. And so far it's been three months and it hasn't happened yet. And I'm not tempted to do that. That was one of them. Just the idea that I'm still the the The primary owner of both companies and I am entrusting as much as I trust these people, knowing that I'm entrusting them with that much responsibility and it directly affects my estate.
00:15:03
Rich Ashton
That's a gut wrenching call. If I if I hadn't. train them personally, I don't know that I could have made that. I think I would have made the decision to sell the company.
00:15:10
Luisa Hogan
Yeah.
00:15:13
Rich Ashton
and And I still one day will probably have to to sell the company in some form. But I wanted to make sure to protect the existing team. If they're willing to work this hard at running the business, then whoever buys the business will have a team that they'll want to preserve, not replace.
00:15:30
Rich Ashton
So that was part of my thinking as well.
00:15:31
Luisa Hogan
Yeah. Yeah. And I can't, it must be especially hard when, as you say, you've you spent your entire, all of those years loving going to work, loving the business. And when you are, when you're an entrepreneurial soul, business is fun. It doesn't feel like work on many days. It feels It feels like a really fun, challenging hobby in for me anyway on many days.
00:15:53
Rich Ashton
No, 100%. 100%. If did not have... hundred percent hundred percent
00:15:55
Luisa Hogan
And ah so, like you know, looking to my future, i yeah I can't imagine what that must be like going, okay, that's it. I have to draw the line here. I can't go in now and I love the people and I love the business, but it's now time to hand that over. And it it would be really, really difficult.
00:16:12
Luisa Hogan
Yeah. Yeah.
00:16:12
Rich Ashton
if i did not have
00:16:14
Rich Ashton
the things I'm doing to market the book and the training course, the podcasting and all, I'm really busy doing all of this. And so I don't have those times where I sit back and say, well, you know, i wonder if I ought ought to break that rule and go in and see the business. I've got plenty on my plate and I'm glad that I do because I don't, I don't have to have any of those kinds of second thoughts.
00:16:36
Luisa Hogan
Yeah. I love now though, you're you know, I'm retiring out of business and you're starting this whole new training program, promoting a book. You don't really ever leave, do you?
00:16:45
Luisa Hogan
Yeah.
00:16:45
Rich Ashton
Well, and you know, entrepreneurs are always entrepreneurs.
00:16:48
Rich Ashton
That's one of the things that that drives us.
00:16:48
Luisa Hogan
ah always Yeah, I hear you.
00:16:50
Rich Ashton
But I mean, if it's if it's this much fun to do this stuff, why wouldn't I want to do it?
00:16:55
Luisa Hogan
I hear you. I feel a little bit of a kindred spirit with you, although I've i've still got another 45 years ahead of me, I would say.
00:17:03
Rich Ashton
Well, good for you.
00:17:08
Luisa Hogan
And a lot of founders too, you know, struggle with trusting their teams. I've worked, before I started my own businesses, I worked for, know, You know, I worked in corporate, I worked in community development, and I've worked for other entrepreneurial leaders.
00:17:23
Luisa Hogan
And the thing that stood out to me when I worked for an entrepreneur, which is funny because now I am one for the last 10 years, was that, you know, they struggle to trust and they struggle to really allow their teams um to trust their teams and How much of that is, and, and, you know, when, when I asked, actually asked my leader at the time, you know, what's that about? Cause you've got to trust us, you know, we, we can do this. And she would say, oh, it was about me having standards for my business. You know, I've got standards for my business, but how much of that is really controlled, disguised as standards? And, you know, what advice do you have to entrepreneurs around how you can start letting go of some of that control?
00:18:09
Rich Ashton
um Yeah, that's ah I think it's a great question. I think it's fundamental to to the the whole process that I've been through. I'm a believer that while I'm good at a variety of things, I'm not good at 15 things. And so...
00:18:25
Rich Ashton
The business was always going to be better when I found people who were stronger in areas than I was and offloaded responsibility. So you don't offload responsibility all at once. And we've always had a very clear set of values for the company.
00:18:44
Rich Ashton
our The reason that we're in business is to provide exceptional customer service by empowering and supporting employees. So everything we do runs through the filter of does it improve our customer service?
00:18:59
Rich Ashton
does it um Does it empower and support our employees? And if it doesn't, then we don't do it. So similarly, if I'm going to turn over control of anything,
00:19:11
Rich Ashton
Does it enhance that mission? and And when it does, i mean, I didn't have any problem turning over the field work. ah You know, I had to, well,
00:19:22
Rich Ashton
we're stronger because I made that decision.
00:19:25
Luisa Hogan
Mm-hmm.
00:19:25
Rich Ashton
I am not a i'm not an accountant. So the financial side of the business, although I oversee it, the financial side of the business needed to be turned over. Once you look through and say that person is stronger, at least I think that person would be stronger in this role, then you delegate responsibility a little bit at a time. It's not ah it's not an all or nothing proposition.
00:19:50
Rich Ashton
We've always developed leaders by giving them a little bit of responsibility, working with them to make sure that they were on the right program, that they could follow through and handle that project. ah project And then could be given another project. So it isn't a matter of relinquishing control one afternoon. It's a matter of relinquishing control a little bit at a time.
00:20:13
Rich Ashton
But anybody who thinks their business will not be stronger by having several people handle meaningful tasks for them, just isn't, you know, being honest with themselves. None of us are none of us can be good at that that many things. And so as your business grows, you don't have any pro any choice but to face that issue.
00:20:34
Luisa Hogan
you do and you know ah i think too many entrepreneurs might have had like you multiple businesses not all of them successful but then you nail one and it has to be scaled it has to grow And now you're not going to be the sole person who's growing this business anymore.
00:20:45
Rich Ashton
Mm-hmm.
00:20:50
Luisa Hogan
You have to be able to rely on others. And I think that's a real a real tricky ah mindset for a lot of entrepreneurs and people who have small business because, yeah.
00:21:00
Rich Ashton
You know, I do too, but I also think if you flip the script on that and say, how much more powerful is it if I am empowering people?
00:21:12
Luisa Hogan
Mm-hmm.
00:21:12
Rich Ashton
If I'm building people, if I could have a team, instead of just me or me and one other, if I could have a team of six people who can handle meaningful responsibility,
00:21:24
Rich Ashton
that I would take so much pride in that. I do take so much pride because it worked. and And the knowledge that I have helped build them into something most of them never dreamed they could be.
00:21:38
Rich Ashton
Only one of those people ever thought he would be running a company. All the rest of them saw themselves as being good in an area, but but with a definite ceiling.
00:21:49
Rich Ashton
So Just as doing business every day is really fun for an entrepreneur, building people is also another really fun exercise if you if you look at it that way.
00:22:01
Luisa Hogan
Yeah, 100%. And it's so rewarding, so rewarding for everybody involved really.
00:22:04
Rich Ashton
Mm-hmm.
00:22:07
Luisa Hogan
um You know, you play a big part in their lives too. Tell me, to those who may be working for entrepreneurs, tell me what advice have you got for them who, if they are with an entrepreneur who and they want to maybe, or maybe they've never seen themselves in a leadership role, or maybe they would like to, and they don't know how to tackle it with an entrepreneur entrepreneurial leader who may be struggling to step back. What advice would you give them?
00:22:34
Rich Ashton
um Long before the the entrepreneur wants to step back is the time to to start having conversations. I always have welcomed anybody to walk in and say, hey, I just want to pick your brain for a minute when you have time. Maybe we do it after work. You know, maybe you're busy now, but would you mind just talking to me?
00:22:55
Rich Ashton
Well, I love those kinds of conversations. I've always loved those kinds of conversations. And If you are modeling the kind of leadership that you want your people to have, then it's very easy to talk about it.
00:23:10
Rich Ashton
And it's very easy for them to see, oh, that's why he did what he did. And you know out of those conversations begins that that small delegation. I mean, i've i've I've had those casual conversations with somebody and said, I'll tell you what, here's what I'd like you to work on.
00:23:28
Rich Ashton
Just work on it outside the company. This doesn't really have anything to do with your direct job. but And and it's it's just a test. It's to see if they really mean business. Some of them don't ever come back.
00:23:39
Rich Ashton
and And so that we had a good conversation, but they're not really interested in moving anywhere to the next level. But others come back and some of them come back again and again and again. I began meeting,
00:23:49
Luisa Hogan
Mm-hmm.
00:23:51
Rich Ashton
um once every other week with one of our employees who's long-term employee, never ever saw himself in leadership. He had problems with time management and and I've got a pretty good handle on time management. So I would spend 30 minutes with him every other week and we'd talk about time management and it led to him having so much comfort with me. No longer was I the owner, but I was kind of a mentor to him and He became part of our leadership team.
00:24:23
Rich Ashton
and And now, i mean, he has soared beyond any expectation he ever had. He never thought he would be a ah leader. In fact, when he came to us, his plan was to work for six months, earn enough money to go back to Mexico.
00:24:36
Rich Ashton
and And that was it. it was It was clearly just a job. It was not a career. And he's with us 19 years later.
00:24:44
Luisa Hogan
What an amazing story. See that. And that's the difference, you know, listening and taking the time and, uh, you know, having that mentoring kind of relationship does right. I just love that.
00:24:56
Rich Ashton
Yeah, i and most of i have a lot of entrepreneurial friends.
00:24:56
Luisa Hogan
Um,
00:25:00
Rich Ashton
I don't think there's a one that wouldn't have welcomed that kind of conversation.
00:25:05
Luisa Hogan
Yeah. Yeah. It's so true. There's a sense of relief in it too, right? Because when you feel like somebody is on the right page and wants to come along on the journey, you think, yes, this is, this is the opportunity because afraid I'm speaking for myself, the thought of bringing loads of new outside people into my business is very scary for me.
00:25:28
Luisa Hogan
It's scary. but The internal fear is like, what happens?
00:25:29
Rich Ashton
Mm-hmm.
00:25:30
Luisa Hogan
this is This might run away. And it's not control as such, although that's a part of it, but it's also um fear of it getting having getting legs and it runs away from me, right?
00:25:44
Luisa Hogan
So, you know, it's such it is a relief when you have somebody who's already part of your team and can grow in there with you and comes along with that conversation. It's so good.
00:25:55
Rich Ashton
the One of the beautiful things about in his particular case is that he's he's Hispanic and Hispanic families are are very large.
00:25:55
Luisa Hogan
Yeah.
00:26:07
Rich Ashton
you know they they They get together, they're extended family. And even though he's in his mid fortyties He is the patriarch of that family now, just because he's grown so much as a leader. He'll tell you he's a better parent.
00:26:22
Rich Ashton
He's a better husband and he's certainly a better family leader. um So these you you mentioned term getting legs. Leadership gets legs.
00:26:33
Rich Ashton
Leadership has.
00:26:33
Luisa Hogan
Yeah.
00:26:35
Rich Ashton
Whether you're going to become a significant leader in a company is almost immaterial. Leadership is better in every phase of your life when you learn some of those principles.
00:26:47
Luisa Hogan
Yeah. yeahp And also leadership eventually, leadership is not about you. It's about them.
00:26:55
Luisa Hogan
When you are a leader, you know, it's it's not about you anymore.
00:26:55
Rich Ashton
It's about influence.
00:26:57
Rich Ashton
Mm-hmm.
00:26:59
Luisa Hogan
When you're growing, when you're climbing that ladder, it's about you and your career. But when you, ah that was my realization. I became a CEO of a consulting practice and it was my second CEO role, but it was the first time ever that I really understood what steady leadership was and what it was to be in service.
00:27:15
Luisa Hogan
to your team rather than being the person in charge only. So it's I think that's definitely a a something that you have to grow into as a leader yourself.
00:27:28
Luisa Hogan
Yeah.
00:27:28
Rich Ashton
Now, was it modeled for you or did you just come across that?
00:27:33
Luisa Hogan
What was that? Oh, the servant leadership. You know, it's funny because it was actually the situation that I got put in, Rich. It's, um you know, it was modeled to me, but I had a wonderful mentor at the time. And I also at the time found quite serendipitously, because you know, that's what happens. Like something comes across your plate at the right time. I got some excellent reading and I was reading some wonderful stuff about leadership. And I was applying that at the time. But the situation that I was put in, because I inherited that CEO role, it was a failing organization.
00:27:34
Rich Ashton
the the The servant leadership idea that you...
00:28:08
Luisa Hogan
And I was tasked with either saving it or winding it up.
00:28:11
Rich Ashton
Thank you.
00:28:11
Luisa Hogan
And we were on the on the brink, my team and I were on the brink of saving it. But my board and got spooked because in order to save that organization, we had to change the mission a little bit of that organization.
00:28:22
Luisa Hogan
They got spooked, they didn't wanna do that and they decided to wind it up. And that experience of winding it up with that team over months, winding up all of our contracts professionally.
00:28:32
Luisa Hogan
We didn't drop anyone, but team stayed there. They supported me and I supported them. We were all there to the end. In fact, those whose roles had already been made redundant, um they came back and volunteered to help wind up was the most incredible leadership experience.
00:28:47
Rich Ashton
wow
00:28:51
Luisa Hogan
And, you know, You know, people say, oh, you know, winding up an organization, that must be awful. Yes, the actual experience was awful. But in terms of the whole, you know, the relationships that I have, what I learned about myself, what I learned about leadership was the best thing that I ever went through. And I wouldn't be 10 years later in my own business doing so well with my own work if it weren't for that experience, right?
00:29:15
Rich Ashton
you You must have been very good through that difficult time.
00:29:15
Luisa Hogan
So...
00:29:18
Luisa Hogan
Yeah, it's hard. I mean, and as you say, you've had eight businesses, not all of them are successful. I think when you can when you can see that ah failure or something not being successful is not a failure, it's just a learning opportunity when you can do that.
00:29:35
Luisa Hogan
your whole world opens to you. And I don't know what you think about that in your, in your journey, eight businesses, not all of them successful, a couple of them really successful. You know, what's your thoughts on that, that internal dialogue that people might have when things don't go the right way?
00:29:49
Rich Ashton
<unk>ve I've heard that comment that it's just, you know, it's not a failure, it's a learning experience. I consider it them to be failures.
00:29:56
Luisa Hogan
Really?
00:29:56
Luisa Hogan
Yeah.
00:29:56
Rich Ashton
I can't get past that.
00:29:58
Rich Ashton
I was i was raised that way. And that's so that's actually ah a little...
00:30:01
Luisa Hogan
yeah
00:30:02
Rich Ashton
Before I had my first failure, I wasn't positive that I could ever recover from a failure because of the way I was raised.
00:30:08
Luisa Hogan
Yeah. Yeah.
00:30:09
Rich Ashton
And and that there was just so much shame around failing. in In fact, I've got a chapter in the book about that. um But that's that's no way to be. i mean, I wish I were not that way and I'm i'm less that way now.
00:30:23
Rich Ashton
But um it was very, very difficult for me to acknowledge that because i my career started off very rapidly and it was in my early 40s that I hit that speed bump.
00:30:37
Rich Ashton
And that was hard because I had been the guy who was moving forward faster than anybody else. And all of a sudden, I saw friends of mine who were passing me up.
00:30:47
Luisa Hogan
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:30:47
Rich Ashton
and And, you know, I felt i felt stupid.
00:30:51
Rich Ashton
i I felt like I had squandered a heck of a head start. And fortunately, I have a number of mentors. I have a great wife.
00:31:02
Rich Ashton
And they helped me get through it. But that that was not a fun period of my life. Thank
00:31:07
Luisa Hogan
Yeah, um look, by all means, I'm not saying that, you know, something something fails. i'm not I'm certainly not going, oh, well, that's fine. You know, there is all of that other shame and all of those thoughts do come to mind. In fact, I just recently wound up, had I had two businesses.
00:31:24
Luisa Hogan
I'm in the process of winding up the second one at the moment. wasn't a success. you know One business is 10 years old scaling. The other one I started three years ago with my sister, not doing so great. We've decided to wind it up because it's not the direction that we wanted to go with it. And I tell you, it stings because as you know, you put in all of the work and the time and then you question yourself. um But I also think that's the entrepreneurial spirit. you know You win some and you lose some and you can either You can either allow yourself to quit or you can go, right, whatever I learned and I can move on here.
00:32:01
Rich Ashton
i am One of the benefits of being retired and old is that I know I have a lot of people in the same situation. And I decided three months ago that we were gonna have a a meeting every month of of some of that group. And so eight at a time. And I have them over here to my house and we sit around and talk about things. We we deal with a specific question.
00:32:24
Rich Ashton
But the first time through, everybody went through their story And I learned these are people I've known for many cases for 40 years. I learned something new about each one of them, but every one of them had had multiple failures and all of them are very successful, you know, at the end of their careers. But it's just part of the entrepreneurial experience.
00:32:46
Luisa Hogan
It is. I think I was watching a video the other day of the you know the founder of Netflix, incredibly successful business.
00:32:53
Rich Ashton
Mm
00:32:53
Luisa Hogan
He's also founded eight businesses and he was doing a presentation saying, these are my eight businesses that I founded.
00:32:56
Rich Ashton
hmm.
00:33:00
Luisa Hogan
And if you'd asked me at the start of each one, which one would be successful, I couldn't tell you. Because it's true. You start a business and you you think it's going to be successful.
00:33:06
Rich Ashton
Yep.
00:33:08
Luisa Hogan
You put in all the work for it to be successful. You never start a business with the hope that it fails.
00:33:12
Luisa Hogan
and But you you don't always know which one it's going to be. you know?
00:33:13
Rich Ashton
Sure.
00:33:18
Luisa Hogan
Yeah. Yeah. Well, Rich, it's been an absolute pleasure speaking to you today. Where can people find you? Where can they find your book? How can they connect with you?
00:33:18
Rich Ashton
Yep.
00:33:29
Rich Ashton
The website is growingyourown.net. I love communicating directly with people. If they want to email me, my email address is rich at growingyourown.net.
00:33:41
Rich Ashton
the The book, the training course, speaking engagements are all talked about on the website. And so anything they want to find out about me, they can find out there. I'm not very active on social media, but I do post regularly on LinkedIn. So I'd love to be followed on LinkedIn.
00:33:57
Luisa Hogan
Excellent. Well, I'll definitely be heading along there to follow you there and and keeping in touch and getting your book because I know that's going to be really relevant to me. Thank you so much, Rich. I really appreciate your time today. And I do wish you every success with your you know newly found semi-retirement in your new journey ahead of you. um And thank you to all of our listeners today. What I've learned today is that Letting go of business isn't really a capability problem, but it's about the conversations that you have not only with yourself, but with your team and how you can, when you do that, face those conversations, you are able to let go when you absolutely need to. I will see you next time on the Second Voice podcast. Until then, take care.