Most leaders think success is what shapes them—but what happens when success stops mattering? When you’re sitting in a moment you can’t fix, can’t control, and can’t win… what’s left of the leader you thought you were?

Today’s guest is Jay U. Jacobson, a funeral director, entrepreneur, and leadership voice shaped by moments where pressure, grief, and responsibility collide. Jay has testified before the United States Senate on funeral ethics and draws on decades of experience in disaster response, business ownership, and mentoring leaders to explore what leadership looks like when it actually matters. He’s the author of Lead by Legendary Example, a story-driven book on integrity, presence, service, and legacy in real-world leadership.

Connect with Jay: https://www.jacobsonprostaff.com/ 

https://www.linkedin.com/in/jayscookies/

At The Second Voice, we explore the inner conversations leaders rarely say out loud.

If this episode resonated, it is likely because the second voice is active in your leadership too.

Hosted by Luisa Hogan, leadership resilience strategist and founder of Vermelho Consulting.

Luisa works with founders, executives, and senior leaders who carry real responsibility and want to lead with steadiness, clarity, and self-trust under pressure.

Her work focuses on nervous system regulation, leadership identity, and the inner dialogue that shapes how leaders show up when things are hard.

Work With Luisa

If this episode sparked reflection, here are ways to go deeper:

• Leadership resilience workshops and advisory

• Keynotes and curated live experiences

• The Steady Leadership framework and private sessions

Learn more at: vermelho.com.au

Stay Connected

Follow along and join the conversation:

• Instagram: @thesecondvoicepodcast

• Instagram: @luisahoganhq

Subscribe, rate, and review The Second Voice to help more leaders find these conversations.

What Grief Taught Me About Leadership (That Success Never Could) with Jay Jacobson

Most founders say they want to step back—but when the moment comes, they don’t. Not because they can’t… but because they don’t trust what happens next. And the real question is: is that about your team, or about you?

My guest is Rich Aston. During his 45 year career owning small businesses Rich Ashton became frustrated about the choice between bringing in outside leadership talent who didn't fit the culture of his organizations versus promoting excellent, but unprepared existing employees into leadership positions.  He developed a training program to develop leaders in his own company which was so successful he was able to retire and leave management of his businesses to his leadership team.  His book, "Growing Your Own, common sense advice for developing leaders in small business" is a guide to the principles taught in the training course.  The book has been described as "practical, actionable and based on Ashton's real world experience in small business.

Connect with Rich: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rich-ashton-397a2b10/

At The Second Voice, we explore the inner conversations leaders rarely say out loud.

If this episode resonated, it is likely because the second voice is active in your leadership too.

Hosted by Luisa Hogan, leadership resilience strategist and founder of Vermelho Consulting.

Luisa works with founders, executives, and senior leaders who carry real responsibility and want to lead with steadiness, clarity, and self-trust under pressure.

Her work focuses on nervous system regulation, leadership identity, and the inner dialogue that shapes how leaders show up when things are hard.

Work With Luisa

If this episode sparked reflection, here are ways to go deeper:

• Leadership resilience workshops and advisory

• Keynotes and curated live experiences

• The Steady Leadership framework and private sessions

Learn more at: vermelho.com.au

Stay Connected

Follow along and join the conversation:

• Instagram: @thesecondvoicepodcast

• Instagram: @luisahoganhq

Subscribe, rate, and review The Second Voice to help more leaders find these conversations.

Why Most Founders Can’t Step Away (Even When They Want To) with Rich Aston

We admire leaders who listen deeply — but what happens inside their minds while they’re listening? Beneath the calm exterior, there’s often a quiet tension: the urge to speak, to fix, to prove. Today, we’re exploring the second voice of leadership — the internal dialogue that makes empathy possible.

Today, I’m joined by Adam Kinnest, a purpose-driven leader known for his calm, inclusive approach to complex challenges. Together, we’ll unpack what really happens inside the mind of a listening leader — the doubts, tensions, and choices that turn empathy into resilience.

Connect with Adam: https://www.linkedin.com/in/adam-kinnest-316705146/

At The Second Voice, we explore the inner conversations leaders rarely say out loud.

If this episode resonated, it is likely because the second voice is active in your leadership too.

Hosted by Luisa Hogan, leadership resilience strategist and founder of Vermelho Consulting.

Luisa works with founders, executives, and senior leaders who carry real responsibility and want to lead with steadiness, clarity, and self-trust under pressure.

Her work focuses on nervous system regulation, leadership identity, and the inner dialogue that shapes how leaders show up when things are hard.

Work With Luisa

If this episode sparked reflection, here are ways to go deeper:

• Leadership resilience workshops and advisory

• Keynotes and curated live experiences

• The Steady Leadership framework and private sessions

Learn more at: vermelho.com.au

Stay Connected

Follow along and join the conversation:

• Instagram: @thesecondvoicepodcast

• Instagram: @luisahoganhq

Subscribe, rate, and review The Second Voice to help more leaders find these conversations.

When Listening Becomes Leadership with Adam Kinnest

What if the voice of doubt in your head wasn’t a warning sign, but proof you’re stepping into real leadership? Today’s conversation reveals why impostor syndrome may actually mean you’re on the right path.

My guest, Brenda Hukel, has lived this transformation firsthand.” Brenda is an Author, Speaker, and Founder of Awakening the Consciousness Within, LLC. After more than 30 years in Human Resources, Organizational Development, and transformational coaching, she stepped away from her executive career to help women release limiting beliefs, unhealed trauma, and generational conditioning that keep them from their true selves.

Connect with Brenda: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brenda-hukel-mba/

At The Second Voice, we explore the inner conversations leaders rarely say out loud.

If this episode resonated, it is likely because the second voice is active in your leadership too.

Hosted by Luisa Hogan, leadership resilience strategist and founder of Vermelho Consulting.

Luisa works with founders, executives, and senior leaders who carry real responsibility and want to lead with steadiness, clarity, and self-trust under pressure.

Her work focuses on nervous system regulation, leadership identity, and the inner dialogue that shapes how leaders show up when things are hard.

Work With Luisa

If this episode sparked reflection, here are ways to go deeper:

• Leadership resilience workshops and advisory

• Keynotes and curated live experiences

• The Steady Leadership framework and private sessions

Learn more at: vermelho.com.au

Stay Connected

Follow along and join the conversation:

• Instagram: @thesecondvoicepodcast

• Instagram: @luisahoganhq

Subscribe, rate, and review The Second Voice to help more leaders find these conversations.

Why Doubt Might Be the Sign You’re Ready to Lead with Brenda Hukel

What happens when everything you’ve been taught about helping others no longer feels right? For Dr. Avi Charlton, unlearning medicine wasn’t rebellion—it was essential. This is the story of a doctor who dared to listen to her second voice… and prescribed a new way to heal.

Today we’re exploring what it takes to question the very system that shaped you—and find freedom on the other side. My guest is Dr Avi Charlton who is a GP, speaker, best-selling author, podcast host, and thought leader in lifestyle medicine. She is the founder of Melbourne Low Carb Clinic and Breathe in Health, where she helps people reverse chronic conditions and improve wellbeing through nutrition, functional breathing, and lifestyle interventions.

A passionate advocate for empowering individuals to take charge of their health, Dr. Charlton shares her expertise on stage, in the media, through her best-selling book *Prescribing Lifestyle: A Doctor’s Prescription to Lasting Weight Loss and Vibrant Health*, and as host of the *Prescribing Lifestyle* podcast.

Her work has been recognised nationally, receiving an **AusMumpreneur Honourable Mention for Wellness Business of the Year**. With over two decades of experience as a doctor, Dr. Charlton continues to inspire and guide people toward vibrant health, sustainable change, and a future where lifestyle is the first prescription.

At The Second Voice, we explore the inner conversations leaders rarely say out loud.

If this episode resonated, it is likely because the second voice is active in your leadership too.

Hosted by Luisa Hogan, leadership resilience strategist and founder of Vermelho Consulting.

Luisa works with founders, executives, and senior leaders who carry real responsibility and want to lead with steadiness, clarity, and self-trust under pressure.

Her work focuses on nervous system regulation, leadership identity, and the inner dialogue that shapes how leaders show up when things are hard.

Work With Luisa

If this episode sparked reflection, here are ways to go deeper:

• Leadership resilience workshops and advisory

• Keynotes and curated live experiences

• The Steady Leadership framework and private sessions



Learn more at: vermelho.com.au

Stay Connected

Follow along and join the conversation:

• Instagram: @thesecondvoicepodcast

• Instagram: @luisahoganhq

Find Dr Avi:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/avi-charlton/

www.mlcclinic.com.au

https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100063738752807 https://www.instagram.com/dr_charlton_lifestyle_gp/ https://youtube.com/@avicharlton?si=GI8vQOQ_CJ9N5PwW

Subscribe, rate, and review The Second Voice to help more leaders find these conversations.





Unlearning Medicine: A GP’s Inner Revolution with Dr Avi Charlton

What if the success you’re chasing isn’t really growth at all—but fear in disguise? Many leaders drive themselves into overdrive, convinced they’re growing, when in reality they’re anchored by fear. Today, we’ll uncover how to spot the difference and what it takes to move from proving yourself to truly becoming yourself.

My guest today is Marielle Speetjens, a Midlife Reinvention & Confidence Coach and the founder of Mindbreeze.ae   She helps women in midlife rebuild confidence, realign with what matters, and design a next chapter they’re excited to say YES to. Through her 5C Method—Courage, Confidence, Clarity, Commitment, Celebration—she pairs straight-talk coaching with practical habits and micro-promises that last. With clients, she surfaces patterns, rewires limiting stories, builds daily confidence rituals, aligns the path ahead, and tracks (and celebrates) what matters.  In earlier chapters, Marielle worked in human rights and international education, and founded her own coaching company. After the passing of her daughter, she devoted herself to family and homeschooled her children while living off-grid on a sailboat. After moving to Portugal—and while navigating menopause, and her own reinvention—she completed two half-Ironman races and managed an international swim team for several years.  Today, as her nest slowly empties, she coaches privately and speaks on midlife reinvention, authenticity, embodiment and alignment.

At The Second Voice, we explore the inner conversations leaders rarely say out loud.

If this episode resonated, it is likely because the second voice is active in your leadership too.

Hosted by Luisa Hogan, leadership resilience strategist and founder of Vermelho Consulting.

Luisa works with founders, executives, and senior leaders who carry real responsibility and want to lead with steadiness, clarity, and self-trust under pressure.

Her work focuses on nervous system regulation, leadership identity, and the inner dialogue that shapes how leaders show up when things are hard.

Work with Marielle

https://www.facebook.com/marielle.speetjens 

https://www.instagram.com/mariellespeetjens/

https://mindbreeze.ae

Work With Luisa

If this episode sparked reflection, here are ways to go deeper:

• Leadership resilience workshops and advisory

• Keynotes and curated live experiences

• The Steady Leadership framework and private sessions

Learn more at: vermelho.com.au

Stay Connected

Follow along and join the conversation:

• Instagram: @thesecondvoicepodcast

• Instagram: @luisahoganhq



Subscribe, rate, and review The Second Voice to help more leaders find these conversations.





The False Anchor That Looks Like Growth with Marielle Speetjens

Hook:
What if everything you’ve been working so hard to prove, every achievement, every role, every sacrifice, still leaves you feeling like it’s never enough? Today we’re uncovering the hidden cost of proving yourself, and how self-talk can become the very cage that keeps you from living fully.

Today I’m joined by Dana Diaz—a writer and advocate who has lived through abuse, broken free from toxic narratives, and is now helping others reclaim their worth and voice. Together we’ll explore how the pressure to prove yourself can spiral into self-sabotage, and what it takes to finally break free. Dana is a Bestselling Author, Global Podcast Guest and Motivational Speaker /Founder of Dana S. Diaz Enterprises, LLC

At The Second Voice, we explore the inner conversations leaders rarely say out loud.

If this episode resonated, it is likely because the second voice is active in your leadership too.

Hosted by Luisa Hogan, leadership resilience strategist and founder of Vermelho Consulting.

Luisa works with founders, executives, and senior leaders who carry real responsibility and want to lead with steadiness, clarity, and self-trust under pressure.

Her work focuses on nervous system regulation, leadership identity, and the inner dialogue that shapes how leaders show up when things are hard.

Follow Dana Diaz

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/danas.diaz/

Website: https://danasdiaz.com/

Work With Luisa

If this episode sparked reflection, here are ways to go deeper:

• Leadership resilience workshops and advisory

• Keynotes and curated live experiences

• The Steady Leadership framework and private sessions



Learn more at: vermelho.com.au

Stay Connected

Follow along and join the conversation:

• Instagram: @thesecondvoicepodcast

• Instagram: @luisahoganhq

Subscribe, rate, and review The Second Voice to help more leaders find these conversations.





The Cost of Proving Yourself: When Success Still Isn’t Enough with Dana Diaz

We’re often told that achievement brings confidence and clarity. But what happens when success doesn’t quiet the voice in your head — it makes it louder? In this final episode of Season 1, I’m sharing the leadership decision that forced me to confront that reality, reflecting on what I learned during Season 1, and talking about what's coming up in Season 2!

At The Second Voice, we explore the inner conversations leaders rarely say out loud.

If this episode resonated, it is likely because the second voice is active in your leadership too.

Hosted by Luisa Hogan, leadership resilience strategist and founder of Vermelho Consulting.

Luisa works with founders, executives, and senior leaders who carry real responsibility and want to lead with steadiness, clarity, and self-trust under pressure.

Her work focuses on nervous system regulation, leadership identity, and the inner dialogue that shapes how leaders show up when things are hard.

Work With Luisa

If this episode sparked reflection, here are ways to go deeper:

• Leadership resilience workshops and advisory

• Keynotes and curated live experiences

• The Steady Leadership framework and private sessions

Learn more at: vermelho.com.au

Stay Connected

Follow along and join the conversation:

• Instagram: @thesecondvoicepodcast

• Instagram: @luisahoganhq

Subscribe, rate, and review The Second Voice to help more leaders find these conversations.



Achievement Doesn’t Quiet the Inner Critic — It Makes It Louder

What if your best business decisions don’t come from a spreadsheet, but from a whisper? Today we explore what happens when you stop forcing strategy and start feeling it — when intuition becomes your most powerful business partner.

At The Second Voice, we explore the inner conversations leaders rarely say out loud.

If this episode resonated, it is likely because the second voice is active in your leadership too.

Hosted by Luisa Hogan, leadership resilience strategist and founder of Vermelho Consulting.

Luisa works with founders, executives, and senior leaders who carry real responsibility and want to lead with steadiness, clarity, and self-trust under pressure.

Her work focuses on nervous system regulation, leadership identity, and the inner dialogue that shapes how leaders show up when things are hard.

Work With Luisa

If this episode sparked reflection, here are ways to go deeper:

• Leadership resilience workshops and advisory

• Keynotes and curated live experiences

• The Steady Leadership framework and private sessions

more at: vermelho.com.au

A Note From Whisper & Thread

The Second Voice is proudly supported by Whisper & Thread.

Whisper & Thread creates intimate apparel embroidered with quiet, internal messages designed to interrupt negative self-talk.

Each piece carries a reminder on the inside. Not performative. Not loud. Just for you.

Because leadership self-talk does not start in the boardroom.

And confidence is built in the moments no one sees.

Explore Whisper & Thread at: whisperandthread.com

Stay Connected

Follow along and join the conversation:

• Instagram: @thesecondvoicepodcast

• Instagram: @vermelho_consulting

• Instagram: @whisperandthread

Subscribe, rate, and review The Second Voice to help more leaders find these conversations.



When Intuition Becomes Your Strategy with June Mac

Leadership isn’t just about strategy or vision—it’s about the hidden inner battles. Many leaders silently carry the burden of doing it all themselves, paying the “loneliness tax” without even realising it. In this episode, Kirsten Hopkins reveals the moment she shifted from being a doer to someone who empowers others—and why that change transformed not just her leadership, but her life.

At The Second Voice, we explore the inner conversations leaders rarely say out loud.

If this episode resonated, it is likely because the second voice is active in your leadership too.

Hosted by Luisa Hogan, leadership resilience strategist and founder of Vermelho Consulting.

Luisa works with founders, executives, and senior leaders who carry real responsibility and want to lead with steadiness, clarity, and self-trust under pressure.

Her work focuses on nervous system regulation, leadership identity, and the inner dialogue that shapes how leaders show up when things are hard.

Work With Luisa

If this episode sparked reflection, here are ways to go deeper:

• Leadership resilience workshops and advisory

• Keynotes and curated live experiences

• The Steady Leadership framework and private sessions

Learn more at: vermelho.com.au

A Note From Whisper & Thread

The Second Voice is proudly supported by Whisper & Thread.

Whisper & Thread creates intimate apparel embroidered with quiet, internal messages designed to interrupt negative self-talk.

Each piece carries a reminder on the inside. Not performative. Not loud. Just for you.

Because leadership self-talk does not start in the boardroom.

And confidence is built in the moments no one sees.

Explore Whisper & Thread at: whisperandthread.com

Stay Connected

Follow along and join the conversation:

• Instagram: @thesecondvoicepodcast

• Instagram: @vermelho_consulting

• Instagram: @whisperandthread

Subscribe, rate, and review The Second Voice to help more leaders find these conversations.



The Loneliness Tax of Leadership with Kirsten Hopkins

Every leader has two voices — the one they speak with, and the one they live with. The Second Voice brings the latter into the open. Join Luisa Hogan as she sits down with founders, change-makers, and creatives to talk about the unseen side of leadership: the whispers of doubt, resilience, intuition, and truth that shape our choices. Real stories, raw reflections, and the mindset rituals that steady us through it all.

Luisa Hogan

Shows