Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Holes: Part One – Digging into the Characters
40 Plays24 days ago
In this episode of Book Watch, we’re diving into the character analysis of Holes and its 2003 movie adaptation (Holes). How well did the film capture the heart of the book? What changes worked—and which ones missed the mark? 💡
In Part 1, we’ll explore:
✅ Character portrayals, casting choices, and differences between the book and movie.
Join hosts Sarah-Daye, Jordyn, and Chris as they break down what worked, what didn’t, and whether this adaptation does the book justice. 🎬📚
📌 Tell us your thoughts! Did you love or hate this adaptation? Let’s discuss in The Book Watch Lounge on Facebook
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to 'Holes'
00:00:01
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Hello listeners, welcome back to another episode of Book Watch. ah Today we are going to be discussing holes and I am joined once again by co-host Jordan. hi Jordan, how are are you?
00:00:16
Jordyn
So good, thanks for asking.
00:00:19
Sarah-Daye McDougall
And ah Chris is with us as well. Hi Chris.
00:00:22
Chris
Hello, thanks for having me again.
00:00:23
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Absolutely. Okay, so we are diving into holes written by Louis Sachar. Anybody know how to pronounce that?
00:00:32
Chris
It's a car?
00:00:32
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Sachar?
00:00:33
Jordyn
Sakaar maybe?
00:00:34
Chris
Yeah, not sure.
00:00:34
Sarah-Daye McDougall
so car um hit This is from Carrie Byer.
00:00:35
Chris
I know he said it on the audiobook, but I don't remember now.
00:00:36
Jordyn
and might just be my Marvel influence.
00:00:37
Chris
Okay.
Gender-Swapped TV Series of 'Holes'
00:00:43
Sarah-Daye McDougall
the audiobook was narrated by carrie byer The movie was directed by Andrew Davis um and it the script was written by Sakaar and this came out in 2003 and maybe that is why it was such a good adaptation.
00:01:02
Sarah-Daye McDougall
And then I'm going to look up real quick because I believe there's a series in development.
00:01:09
Chris
Oh.
00:01:11
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yes, a Holes TV series is in development on Disney Plus with a pilot order based on the novel. This series is going to be a gender-swapped reimagining centering on a teenage girl instead of the original male lead. The pilot was ordered in January of 2025, and Alina Mankin is writing and executive producing with Liz Fang serving as showrunner and a executive producer.
00:01:41
Chris
Well, that's interesting for sure. i hope ah Lewis is actually a part of the the screenwriting of that one again. he did a lot of the work on the original movie after they failed with the original screenwriter to get ah the story they wanted.
Adapting 'Holes' for TV: Challenges and Insights
00:01:56
Jordyn
Yeah, I feel like that this is a weird one to do a TV show about, because especially because we already have an adaptation of the book and we'll get into it more, but it like there was nothing really major that was left out.
00:02:10
Jordyn
So I feel like a TV show is like too long, like too much time to try to fill in the gaps. So that's
00:02:17
Sarah-Daye McDougall
I agree.
00:02:17
Chris
That's fair. and It's a pretty short audiobook, pretty short book overall, man, for that younger age group.
00:02:22
Jordyn
Yeah, it's only like at 250 pages or something like that.
00:02:22
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Let me pull
00:02:26
Jordyn
So it's very short. So having that much time to fill, I'm curious what they will fill it with to get like multiple hours.
00:02:32
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah, and the audiobook is only four and a half hours.
00:02:36
Chris
Right.
00:02:37
Sarah-Daye McDougall
So um i agree.
00:02:37
Jordyn
Yeah.
00:02:39
Sarah-Daye McDougall
And um I wonder if it's, I mean, I guess they said it is gender swapped because at the end of Holes, they talk about it becoming a girl's camp.
00:02:52
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah.
00:02:52
Chris
i I was thinking about that too. That could be an interesting way to take the story, but that's not what they're saying.
00:02:54
Jordyn
That's true.
00:02:55
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Maybe it was like a sequel. Yeah, but they know it's not what they're saying. So I guess time will tell and we'll have to cover it again when the show comes out.
00:03:05
Chris
Yeah, definitely.
00:03:06
Jordyn
Yeah.
00:03:07
Chris
I'm excited to check it out. Nothing else.
00:03:09
Jordyn
Yeah.
First Encounters and Memorable Quotes
00:03:10
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Do you guys remember um like growing up with this or how did you first hear about Holes?
00:03:17
Chris
Yeah, I remember reading it in school. and I think it was one I would check out that I checked out from the library and took home. I was reading it grandparents or something one summer or something like that.
00:03:26
Jordyn
I never actually had to read it in school, but I remember every time it came on like Disney Channel, we would always stop whatever we were doing to watch it through because it was it like really stuck with us.
00:03:34
Sarah-Daye McDougall
yeah
00:03:38
Jordyn
And like I always remember like I can fix that. Like that was such an iconic like romance line in my head.
00:03:43
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah.
00:03:44
Jordyn
Even as like a 10 year old, I was like, yeah, that's what I need in my life at some point when I'm an adult.
00:03:49
Sarah-Daye McDougall
but Similar to as you wish.
00:03:49
Jordyn
But
00:03:50
Chris
It has a lot of quotable moments, yeah.
00:03:53
Jordyn
yes, yeah, exactly.
00:03:53
Chris
That's true.
00:03:54
Jordyn
Yeah.
00:03:56
Sarah-Daye McDougall
um I did have to read it in school and I remember um the year that we read it was the year the movie came out. So we actually took a field trip to go see it in theaters, which was really fun.
00:04:03
Chris
OK.
00:04:07
Jordyn
That's cool.
00:04:08
Chris
That is fun.
00:04:08
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah, my very, I think, um well, let's see, this came out in 2003 and three and i think Harry Potter came out in 2001. I was going to say this was my first page to screen, but I think Harry Potter was my first page to screen actually.
00:04:15
Jordyn
Yeah.
00:04:22
Sarah-Daye McDougall
um But yeah, definitely, this was very, very popular. I remember um like the music, the film, everything um was quite a hit amongst the ah
00:04:33
Chris
Mm-hmm.
00:04:34
Sarah-Daye McDougall
kids. um
00:04:35
Jordyn
The youths.
00:04:36
Sarah-Daye McDougall
The vote against the youth.
Exploring Themes in 'Holes'
00:04:38
Sarah-Daye McDougall
um So key themes.
00:04:38
Jordyn
Yeah.
00:04:40
Sarah-Daye McDougall
um What do you think kind of like the key themes that stick out to you guys are?
00:04:45
Chris
It's definitely a lot of the, um you know, being a good person is important even when you've got bad luck that and is always plaguing you. but By being good person, he eventually came around and he ah was able to break that curse on himself, even if it was there or not in the first place.
00:05:01
Sarah-Daye McDougall
yeah her
00:05:02
Chris
um a lot That's a lot of it, I feel like, being loyal, being able to ah push past those bad circumstances. That's That's lot.
00:05:11
Jordyn
yeah I think like being a good friend, like the camaraderie between the boys, like at the camp, like they all are stuck in this, you know, ha hard, bad situation and they could just be terrible to each other. But for the most part, like they choose to be kind and like support each other and look out for each other, even when they don't have to. So i really like that, like camaraderie and that friendship, like you were saying.
00:05:33
Chris
More so in the book, I feel like. The movie kind of made them more antagonistic to each other, but that still worked in the themes, but...
00:05:38
Jordyn
Yes. Yeah.
00:05:39
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah, I noticed that too. Yeah. um But I think for a movie, you kind of have to have that drama.
00:05:45
Chris
Right.
00:05:46
Jordyn
yeah.
00:05:49
Chris
Any other ones for you, Sarah?
00:05:49
Sarah-Daye McDougall
should... um Yeah, I mean, I think you guys hit hit on the important ones, but I am always a faint ah fan of fate and destiny.
00:06:00
Sarah-Daye McDougall
And that kind of has a really key ah piece of this story um from the, you know, the flashbacks that we get through to the ending of the book and how, like you said, that curse is broken at the end.
00:06:12
Chris
Absolutely.
Storytelling and Writing Expertise
00:06:16
Jordyn
Yeah, always really I always really love watching the movie and watching the three different storylines coming together in that final climax moment.
00:06:16
Sarah-Daye McDougall
It's a...
00:06:26
Jordyn
I was like, that's really great storytelling and really great writing for it to take all these different things. You're like, why am I learning about this and this? And then slowly, piece by piece, it comes together.
00:06:36
Jordyn
And you're like, oh, my God, it makes sense.
00:06:38
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Thank you.
00:06:38
Jordyn
It's genius.
00:06:40
Sarah-Daye McDougall
It's such a good book, yes. And um I was at the end of the audio book, the author comes on and says 10 things that you might not have known about Holes.
00:06:51
Sarah-Daye McDougall
And one of the things that he said was every book that he writes, he discovers a new kind of like obstacle of writing. And for this one, it was...
00:07:03
Sarah-Daye McDougall
How, like, when you're digging the holes, like how to tell the story, because digging a hole all day, every day for months is going to get boring. And so he decided to do the flashbacks in that way.
00:07:18
Sarah-Daye McDougall
And that kind so like you start digging a hole in the morning, you get your flashback and then when you come back to Stanley, um his hole is dug at the end of the day. And I thought that that also translated really well to the film and we'll we'll kind of talk about that in the next episode when we get into the plot points but um yeah I mean this is this was a really good adaptation and I'm excited to dive into the discussion.
Casting Choices and Performances
00:07:42
Chris
Absolutely.
00:07:44
Sarah-Daye McDougall
So this episode is, of course, our cast and whether or not we thought the movie was well casted or not. and we're kicking off with Stanley Yelnats IV, played bahai the infamous Shia LaBeouf.
00:08:02
Chris
And this one really put him on the map in some ways. I mean, Transformers was his big like you know breakout, like way too famous part, but this was his first real everybody knows your name now moment.
00:08:05
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yes.
00:08:13
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Mm-hmm.
00:08:14
Chris
But I think they did a good job with him.
00:08:14
Jordyn
Mm-hmm.
00:08:15
Chris
The book described him as heavier set and whatnot, but that would, as they talk about, I think in that same end credit thing of the audiobook, would have been problematic to make a kid gain a bunch of weight and then lose a bunch of weight or something like that for a film that's supposed to be filming over a short period of time.
00:08:28
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Right.
00:08:32
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Mm
00:08:33
Jordyn
Yeah, I really liked him in this role. Like he has that perfect amount of like awkwardness, but he still is like smart and capable at the same time.
00:08:39
Sarah-Daye McDougall
hmm.
00:08:44
Jordyn
um so I thought he did like the gangly teenager really well.
00:08:49
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yes. And his kind of older brotherly affection towards zero, I think, came through really nicely as well.
00:08:57
Chris
Mm-hmm.
00:08:57
Jordyn
Yeah.
00:08:58
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Next up, um speaking of Xero, we have Hector Zeroni played by Cleo Thomas.
00:09:08
Sarah-Daye McDougall
I thought he was just so cute.
00:09:08
Jordyn
He was so cute when he was little.
00:09:09
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yes, it is he is.
00:09:09
Jordyn
He's so precious. Yeah. he And he, like, same same thing. Like, the whole thing with Zero is that, like, he he's smart. He just, like, is very reserved and, like, doesn't keep – there's no gap between his cards and his chest. Like, it is right here.
00:09:27
Sarah-Daye McDougall
yeah hear
00:09:27
Jordyn
And so him, like, the performance that Cleo Thomas gives, like, keeping – You can see his mind working like there's facial expression and his eyes like you know that there's stuff happening but he like just keeps that stone face as really, really great acting, especially from like a child actor.
00:09:44
Sarah-Daye McDougall
hey
00:09:48
Sarah-Daye McDougall
And has he really bedded anything else? Like I can't, I don't, I don't recognize the name really.
00:09:52
Jordyn
don't think so.
00:09:54
Chris
In our document there, I added the links to the IMDB and he's got some credits, but it looks like it's mostly TV stuff. He's got about 44 things he's been in. But yeah, he's not a big name these days.
00:10:07
Jordyn
Thank you.
00:10:07
Sarah-Daye McDougall
He looks so different. I'm looking up his IDMB now.
00:10:14
Chris
I thought, yeah, the way that they cast, mean he was supposed to be like this street kid that was so he's going to be you know willing to you know fight when he needs to well you know and skillful more so than some of these other ah prison kids.
00:10:25
Chris
So I thought some of those moments where he grabs the rock and you see that mindset going through his head that I can do something about this.
00:10:29
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yes.
00:10:32
Chris
Then he sets it back down and you let that tension go away from you. but it was It was kind of fun to feel the emotions going through his mindset. Yeah.
00:10:42
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Okay, so moving on to, let's go to the warden, who is, um of course, played by the wonderful Sigourney Weaver. I
00:10:53
Jordyn
There's a line in the book that really stuck out to me where Stanley is describing her, how she talks, and she when she says, like, excuse me, it's like a teacher who is so angry that like she's not even yelling, she's just quiet, and i she nails that every time she says, excuse it's so scary when she says, excuse me you're like, oh my God, what did I do?
00:11:02
Sarah-Daye McDougall
she does too.
00:11:08
Sarah-Daye McDougall
i think she does too
00:11:11
Chris
Excuse me.
00:11:14
Chris
Do any of you guys ever have a teacher like that or ah someone in your life like that?
00:11:14
Sarah-Daye McDougall
She does nail that line. um Yeah, I was going say, I don't know if a teacher, but I definitely say it to my kids all the time.
00:11:19
Jordyn
i try to be a teacher like that.
00:11:20
Chris
ah Fair enough.
00:11:23
Jordyn
What did you just say? I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry, Miss Jordan. Like, yeah, that's what I thought.
00:11:32
Sarah-Daye McDougall
And now I'm like, did I get that from her?
00:11:34
Jordyn
Maybe.
00:11:35
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Is that where I learned this?
00:11:39
Sarah-Daye McDougall
um any ah the Any other comments on Sigourney as the warden?
00:11:44
Chris
I thought she was great. I think she nailed it.
00:11:45
Jordyn
yeah Yeah, she killed it.
00:11:47
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah. Okay. So what about our thoughts on, um well, let's do Mr. Surfer actually. um So John Voight as Okay.
00:11:59
Jordyn
He was really great. He was like really scary at some points and then really goofy at some points. And I think like for it being ah movie geared towards kids, it was really important that he was able to strike that balance and not be too scary all the time.
00:12:15
Jordyn
um So when he needed to be really scary, he was. And when he could be a little bit goofy, he did. And that was I thought it was really good at balancing.
00:12:24
Chris
Yeah, I think he encompassed that well. He kind of pulls off the hopper from Stranger Things and a little bit with some of his ah performance. was like, hmm, if they did that again, I'd put him in that one. But um yeah, I think John Boyd definitely had the the ability to fill both those roles and be funny and serious and scary.
00:12:42
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah, I don't think I have anything to add to that. I think you guys both nailed that. um So then now Dr. Pandansky played by Tim Blake Nelson.
00:12:56
Chris
I only really know him as like ah my as the villainin or the character from the Hulk and then the villain in the more recent Captain America um playing that leader role there.
00:12:57
Jordyn
du
00:13:04
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Right.
00:13:07
Chris
um But, I mean, he was he was interesting. trying to actually help the kids at times, I felt like. And you could feel that he cared a little bit, even though we know what his ultimate goal there was, too, was to be a part of that scheme to get this get rich here but and to hide out and whatnot.
00:13:21
Sarah-Daye McDougall
right
00:13:23
Jordyn
Yeah, he definitely took the lead as like comedic relief from the adult characters, um which again, i think is needed when you have so many serious things happening around around, throughout the story and all the different like, you know, background scenes.
00:13:41
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah. All those flashbacks and stuff.
00:13:42
Jordyn
um Yeah, yeah, you need you need somebody to kind of be like the goober and like somebody that's easy to point be like, oh, ha ha, that guy.
00:13:53
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yes, definitely.
00:13:56
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Before we get into the rest of the Camp Green Lake characters, the rest of his kind of like bunkmates, let's do Sam and Kissing Kate. So Catherine Kissing Kate Barlow was played by Patricia Arquette.
00:14:14
Sarah-Daye McDougall
And sam the Onion Man, um was played by, and forgive me if I mispronounce this, Dule Hill.
00:14:21
Chris
Dual Hill, i think is how you pronounce it.
00:14:22
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Dule. It's Dule. Okay, Dule Hill.
00:14:26
Jordyn
I've been trying for years to figure out where I recognize Sam i'm the Onion Man from. and when I watched the credits and saw his name, i was like, oh, it's my God.
00:14:31
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah.
00:14:34
Jordyn
It's Gus from Psych. i finally It finally clicked in my brain.
00:14:36
Sarah-Daye McDougall
good.
00:14:38
Jordyn
i was like, I knew I knew that guy. he He's wonderful. And the role, again, he's like he's so sweet and so like memorable, even for just like such a small part.
00:14:43
Sarah-Daye McDougall
okay
00:14:50
Jordyn
he He was really in his bag with this one.
00:14:52
Chris
Everybody. Yeah, I'm a big psych fan, so I always every time I see that I see Gus. And so um my wife and i actually rewatched this one last night just to make sure it was fresh and she had never seen it before.
00:15:03
Chris
She's ah for some reason it never came up for her. So as he was coming up, I was starting to make some of the psych like ah little nicknames that they have in the show for him.
00:15:09
Sarah-Daye McDougall
yeah
00:15:13
Chris
I was saying, oh that's that's ah that's bud from the cobbs Cosby show, which is one of the things Sean calls him throughout that. and she's like, I don't think so. No, that's Gus. I'm like, yeah I know. That's what I said.
00:15:23
Sarah-Daye McDougall
ah
00:15:23
Chris
So it was pretty funny messing with her as we got close to him coming up on the screen.
00:15:27
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Had she read the book?
00:15:28
Chris
I don't think so.
00:15:29
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Okay, okay.
00:15:30
Chris
It was a weird one. She just somehow missed it though throughout that time.
00:15:33
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah. um And what about Patricia as Kissing Kate?
00:15:39
Chris
I thought she did a great job with it. I don't really know her, but I think she ah um looked the part really well for what she needed to do there. And she embodied that um outlaw pretty well.
00:15:51
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Mm hmm.
00:15:51
Chris
It was in the book.
00:15:53
Jordyn
Yeah, being able to play both sides of like the sweet like teacher and like you know the romantic lead, and then all of a sudden being like this like badass outlaw like going around shooting people and stuff.
00:15:57
Sarah-Daye McDougall
School teacher.
00:16:03
Chris
women's corn. Mm-hmm.
00:16:07
Jordyn
like That is really cool. I imagine that would be hard to do as an actor, and she totally nailed it. Mm-hmm.
00:16:13
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah, that was a fun montage to to see her transition from umm like you said, the sweet school teacher to the outlaw. Okay, now we can get into our bunkmates and we will, well, i'll just um kind of list them all off. So X-Ray is played by Brendan Jefferson.
00:16:33
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Armpit is played by Byron Cotton. Zigzag is played by aac Cash. I mean, I'm sorry, Mac, Max. Oh my gosh, I can't talk. Zigzag is played by Max Cash.
00:16:47
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Magnet it is played by Miguel Castro and Squid is played by Jake M. Smith um and we didn't write him in but I just wanted to say that the guy that comes in at the end, um Twitch is his name right?
00:17:03
Jordyn
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:17:04
Sarah-Daye McDougall
I just thought he was adorable.
00:17:04
Jordyn
Yeah.
00:17:05
Chris
Yeah, I almost added him, but I was like these are the main guys that were ran this show.
00:17:06
Jordyn
yeah
00:17:08
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah and he was so like such a small little part but yeah he was super cute. So what did you guys think of the bunkmates?
00:17:16
Chris
I think they accomplished the the each role pretty well. i I don't know that I would have cast any them any different. There are not any names I know, but they're they were definitely kids that ah and embodied what they were supposed to there with the different ah elements of pole they were given to the story.
00:17:33
Jordyn
Yeah, no notes. They did great.
00:17:37
Sarah-Daye McDougall
um So any changes in these characters arcs that you want to talk about? I know that we'll talk about, um you know, the key plot points next week, but any changes?
00:17:49
Sarah-Daye McDougall
um i mean, this was a pretty faithful adaptation.
Adaptation Faithfulness and Changes
00:17:52
Sarah-Daye McDougall
One of the best ones I would say, ah but does anything stand out to you um in in these characters stories?
00:18:02
Chris
There's a difference? No, not really. um
00:18:05
Jordyn
I don't think I think the only thing like Chris mentioned earlier is that Stanley is supposed to be a heavier set kid and they had a perfectly good reason for not doing that.
00:18:15
Jordyn
And that was really the only thing that I like noticed after I finished reading and I went to watch the movie. That was the only thing because it's mentioned multiple times throughout the book about how like, oh, I've lost weight.
00:18:25
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Right.
00:18:27
Jordyn
I'm so much stronger now. Like I, you know, these physical feats, like that he has to do later in the story. He acknowledges, like, I wouldn't have been able to do this when I first arrived at Camp Green Lake.
00:18:39
Jordyn
um
00:18:40
Chris
And a lot of that mirrored his grandfather's experience of carrying the ah pig up the hill was supposed to be the same kind of story of he got stronger.
00:18:40
Jordyn
That's probably...
00:18:48
Chris
He got, as he did this, he both they both got stronger and bigger and better.
00:18:49
Jordyn
Yes.
00:18:52
Jordyn
Yeah, absolutely.
00:18:53
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yep.
00:18:53
Chris
liked it.
00:18:55
Jordyn
So that's probably the only big thing that I noticed. Everything else, I was like, yeah, that checks out everything. sounds right they even like they made i'm pretty sure they got all of the ethnicities of the boys in his cabin correct as well um so yeah think they think they nailed it yes yeah yeah
00:19:08
Sarah-Daye McDougall
and
00:19:13
Chris
And it was a diverse cast in that way.
00:19:15
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah, especially like for back then, like that's a pretty it um good for good for these filmmakers that they did that diversity and showed that on screen.
00:19:18
Chris
Yeah.
00:19:25
Chris
We haven't mentioned him yet, but the grandfather was actually not in the book at all, the Stanley's grandfather at this point.
00:19:25
Jordyn
and even
00:19:31
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah.
00:19:32
Chris
But he was a really good storytelling element.
00:19:32
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah.
00:19:33
Chris
He was actually the one giving him all this info while they shared a room at the house. And so ah when he's remembering things, he has some a perspective character to come from.
00:19:42
Sarah-Daye McDougall
And that's always an interesting thing to see in the adaptations is how they tell all that like exposition that happens in a book.
00:19:42
Jordyn
Yeah.
00:19:50
Sarah-Daye McDougall
um And I know later on this month, we're going to be talking about um Ready Player One. and there is a lot of exposition in the beginning of that book that they have to convey on screen.
00:19:59
Chris
That's true.
00:20:01
Sarah-Daye McDougall
So um I agree, adding the grandfather in to kind of like tell the story about the curse and the no good dirty rotten great great grandfather or whatever that saying is
00:20:12
Chris
That line and the song both constantly get stuck in my head ever since childhood all the way up till today. If I hear the the little jingle song they do they sing and that line of no good dirty rotten pig stealing great great grandfather gets stuck in my head.
00:20:24
Sarah-Daye McDougall
yeah
00:20:25
Jordyn
Yep.
00:20:26
Sarah-Daye McDougall
ah see the thing that i i always remember is that i'm tired of this grandpa and he goes that's too dang bad
00:20:30
Chris
Yep, that one's always iconic, too.
00:20:32
Jordyn
Yes. I still say that on like a regular basis.
00:20:35
Sarah-Daye McDougall
yeah
00:20:36
Jordyn
Yeah.
00:20:37
Chris
Yep. So they did a good job of having those memorable memorable moments that stuck with all of us, I think.
00:20:42
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah, and it's just a really good, solid, um like, young adult film, youth, kids movie.
00:20:46
Chris
Mm-hmm.
00:20:47
Jordyn
Yeah. yeah
00:20:49
Sarah-Daye McDougall
um So what are our initial impressions? um and why why why do you think this book was so good for an
Disney's Strategy and Audience Targeting
00:20:55
Sarah-Daye McDougall
adaptation? um and how do you think, you know, before we get into our key plot points in our in our next episode, what do you think about this adaptation? Yeah.
00:21:07
Jordyn
I mean, I think it was produced by Disney. And so they – I remember like 2003 was I think close to the time when they kind of had the split of like the young Disney, like Playhouse Disney, like Little Kitty Disney, and then like the Disney Channel where like you had like Hannah Montana and like more like preteen slash early teenager like content.
00:21:28
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:21:32
Jordyn
And so I think this was like a perfect – book to adapt into a film to get that teenage audience to like engage with Disney and Disney content.
00:21:45
Jordyn
Um, and so.
00:21:46
Chris
For context, that was Brother Bear, The Haunted Mansion with Eddie Murphy at the time, Freaky Friday, Lizzie McGuire movie, Finding Nemo were kind of the big ones at the time.
00:21:55
Sarah-Daye McDougall
m
00:21:57
Chris
Looks like Stitch was around the same time. so
00:22:00
Jordyn
yeah
00:22:00
Chris
there was a lot of big hits at the time for kids. Pirates the Caribbean.
00:22:05
Jordyn
Yeah.
00:22:05
Chris
it was a good time to be a kid in the in the early Yeah.
00:22:05
Jordyn
So again, like,
00:22:08
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yes.
00:22:09
Jordyn
don't I know it? I was five years old when this movie came out.
00:22:10
Chris
yeah
00:22:13
Jordyn
ah but But yeah, like just that balance of like the like the little kiddie stuff, like Lilo and Stitch and Nemo, like you were saying, and then like that getting that older kid audience to still like pay attention to Disney and what they were doing.
00:22:26
Jordyn
And like there's not a ton of violence. There's not a ton of like – there's some, but not like a ton of like deep, like intense themes that like could scare off you know parents, it's like perfectly written for that age demographic to try to get get them to watch.
00:22:37
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Mm-hmm.
00:22:45
Chris
Agreed.
Social Issues in 'Holes'
00:22:47
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Well, I think it it does introduce racism and civil rights with the Kissing Kate storyline. um But yeah, other than that, there's not a lot of like heavy, like violence, like you said.
00:22:58
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Although it is really sad to see the donkey lying dead on the ground. I will, i will say that.
00:23:02
Jordyn
Yeah, I didn't like that part.
00:23:04
Sarah-Daye McDougall
No, who does? know. Yeah.
00:23:07
Jordyn
Poor Mary Lou.
00:23:08
Sarah-Daye McDougall
i know
00:23:09
Chris
She deserved better. 100 years old.
00:23:10
Jordyn
Amen. God bless her.
00:23:14
Chris
From all those onions.
00:23:15
Jordyn
Yeah. The onions will do it.
00:23:18
Sarah-Daye McDougall
All right, well, any other, oh, go ahead.
00:23:18
Chris
But they may they made you care about the donkey, too. So, I mean, they managed to...
00:23:23
Sarah-Daye McDougall
They really did for having such little screen time compared to, you know, how much they talk about her in the book.
00:23:25
Jordyn
Yeah.
00:23:27
Chris
Yeah.
00:23:30
Sarah-Daye McDougall
um But yeah, it and again, it's very subtle. she's They don't like zoom in on the donkey at all. She's just kind of there in the background while um Kate is kind of watching the murder of Sam unfold.
00:23:39
Chris
He runs away.
00:23:43
Sarah-Daye McDougall
But it is, that whole scene is just all really sad.
00:23:48
Chris
But I felt it was a good ah a good introduction to that racism and the the greed that goes into that that um kids see in their lives, but without being too overt, just it was there in the background of a kid's story.
00:24:02
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah.
00:24:02
Jordyn
Yeah, it was a really good balance of like, hey, these things happen. They happened in our past.
00:24:09
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Mm-hmm.
00:24:09
Jordyn
It's bad. It's wrong. You should never participate in things like that what without being like too heavy handed and being aggressive about it I felt.
00:24:17
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Mm-hmm.
00:24:20
Jordyn
And it was easy to understand. like Again, like as a kid, I was, I don't know how old when I first saw this movie, but I was like, able to understand what they were trying to tell me and what was happening without it.
00:24:30
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Mm-hmm.
00:24:32
Jordyn
Like, I don't know, just, it just made sense. And it was easy to, easy to understand.
00:24:38
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah. Great. Okay. um Well, with that, we can kind of wrap up our cast discussion um and we'll check back in next week and talk about the key plot points.
00:24:53
Chris
All right.
00:24:55
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Okay.
00:24:55
Jordyn
See you guys next week.
00:24:56
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yes. Bye.