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Sharp Objects Part One
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📖✨ In this episode of Book Watch, we’re diving into the haunting world of Sharp Objects — Gillian Flynn’s chilling debut novel and its gripping HBO limited series adaptation starring Amy Adams.
How does the show capture the psychological depth and Southern Gothic atmosphere of Flynn’s writing? What changes amplify the tension — and which ones cut a little too deep?
💡 In this episode, we explore:
✅ The complex character of Camille Preaker and Amy Adams’ mesmerizing performance
✅ The unsettling mother-daughter dynamics and small-town secrets that drive the story
✅ How the adaptation uses visuals, pacing, and sound to mirror Camille’s mental unraveling
Tune in as we peel back the layers of this dark and twisty tale — where every scar tells a story. 💙
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Alyssa King and 'Stories and Spoilers'
00:00:47
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Welcome back listeners. Today i am joined by Alyssa King of the Stories and Spoilers podcast.
00:00:52
alyssa
Hi.
00:00:55
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Alyssa, I'm so excited to have you here. Will you please um just tell a little bit about yourself and your podcast?
00:01:00
alyssa
Absolutely. ah My name is Alyssa. I am the host of Stories and Spoilers, the podcast. Why did I pick such a tongue twister with a girl as with a lisp? We will never know. but am i I want to be charming. um But it it was, um I love discussing books with non-spoilers. I'll do an entire episode about my favorite tropes, quotes, my movie casting in my mind, things like that.
00:01:24
alyssa
And then I'll do a separate episode, which will be just full of spoilers, deep dives, certain elements of the story that I found, maybe theories, quotes I really enjoyed that were specific to the story.
00:01:34
alyssa
And for some books, I'll do an entire explanation. Like I will describe the entire book to you. So if you don't want to read it,
00:01:40
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Mm-hmm.
00:01:40
alyssa
I will read it and then I will tell you all about it. i have guests on the show. i do monthly books for the soul episodes. highlight um African-American authors, bookish bloggers, and small businesses.
Exploring 'Sharp Objects' and its Cultural Impact
00:01:52
alyssa
um And you can find me on Spotify and YouTube. So that's all the things about me and my podcast. So yeah.
00:01:58
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Well, welcome, welcome. I'm so excited to have you here to talk about Sharp Objects by Gillian Flynn, the book which came out in 2026 and was actually her debut novel before Gone Girl Days.
00:02:04
alyssa
Yes.
00:02:13
alyssa
which is insane.
00:02:14
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yes. And then the show was an HBO limited series, um which came out in 2018.
00:02:18
alyssa
Like many. Yeah.
00:02:22
Sarah-Daye McDougall
It was created by Marty Noxon, directed by Jean-Marc Vallée. and the writing and credits include Gillian Flynn, Ariella Blaisure, Don Camache, Martin Noxon, Scott Brown, Vince Calandra, and Alex Metcalfe.
00:02:43
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Alyssa, do you remember any of the hype around sharp objects or even Gone Girl and Gillian Flynn in general and kind of how sharp objects, kind like what kind of cultural phenomenon this had?
00:02:44
alyssa
Yeah.
00:02:48
alyssa
Yeah. i do um I when Sharp Objects first came out or when I first found the book, I was in high school and um all of the female men characters I had ever read about were either really shy and like soft-spoken or they were like these like heroines who were afraid of nothing. So like a Katniss from Hunger Games or a Bella from Twilight.
00:03:14
alyssa
Like there was only two versions I'd ever read about.
00:03:17
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Right.
00:03:17
alyssa
i had never read about women who um were ah full-formed adults, were complex, who had dark sides, who had reasons they made certain choices, who had trauma coming in that wasn't related to a man.
00:03:29
alyssa
I had never read books like that. um So Gillian Flynn, even though her stories are quite dark and are known to be quite dark, Gone Girl had the same ah impact as like an M. Night Shyamalan kind of film where you know there's an oh my God moment.
00:03:41
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah.
00:03:43
alyssa
You know there's a twist. um But the book, i in high school, I remember it was something about hearing people talk about like the wife, you know, she was a good girl in the beginning and then there was a twist.
00:03:54
alyssa
But for me, i was more so interested in um what made her this way. You know, is she just a sociopath?
00:03:59
Sarah-Daye McDougall
huh
00:04:01
alyssa
Was it an event that occurred? is she self-aware? My brain was always just kind of wondering if I were to read the book, would it expand on this woman even more? um And was it because of a man or is it because of something she witnessed or a family dynamic?
Themes of Female Rage and Villainy in 'Sharp Objects'
00:04:15
alyssa
My brain just kind of wandered.
00:04:17
alyssa
Yeah. When I read Sharp Objects, I actually haven't read Gone Girl. I read Sharp Objects because um one of the opening lines, I think it was a quote that I had found on Goodreads that pulled me in that referenced like a seed of darkness in every woman.
00:04:32
alyssa
And thought that was so like brilliant and fascinating, this concept that every woman has the capability to become a villain or be be a dark character. Yeah.
00:04:41
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah.
00:04:43
alyssa
And that kind of began my love with like female rage with like, you know, seeing women who are villains and there is no bright side. There's no man that can fix it.
00:04:49
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah. Right.
00:04:50
alyssa
Like love is not going to heal it. Like just something about that. Like what is, what is a ah monster think about? What is a, and is she really a monster?
00:04:57
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Right.
00:04:58
alyssa
Like that's so interesting to me. So I love this book.
00:05:00
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah. And just like a very raw story and and really highlighting a lot of different mental health issues.
00:05:03
alyssa
hundred percent.
00:05:10
Sarah-Daye McDougall
um And i I don't remember how I stumbled upon Sharp Objects.
00:05:10
alyssa
Yeah. I couldn't say better.
00:05:17
Sarah-Daye McDougall
um I'm sure it just popped up. I'm an audio listener, so I'm sure it was like a recommended audio book. Um, but I, I was immediately hooked and couldn't stop listening.
00:05:28
Sarah-Daye McDougall
So, um I, and then of course the show was announced and I'm, the reason why this podcast is, um a podcast today is because I always have to read the book before I see something.
00:05:34
alyssa
so yeah
00:05:42
Sarah-Daye McDougall
So when I see a ah a show or movie is coming out that was based on a book, I'm like, well, let me go read the book.
00:05:42
alyssa
same
00:05:47
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Cause I want to know, I want to see all those Easter eggs. And I know we'll get into like our initial impressions and our next episode will get into the meat of
HBO Adaptation and Mental Health Themes
00:05:56
Sarah-Daye McDougall
the adaptation. But I thought the show did a really solid job adapting this book from page to screen.
00:06:03
alyssa
The tone of the book, I constantly felt claustrophobic, like from from the very first moment of like her red sweater, um but you know, you're not wanted and you have one coworker, you have one boss you believe in.
00:06:16
alyssa
um if you've ever had a relative who's made you feel uncomfortable or who was picked at you, you know especially as a young, ah as a woman, when you're like a teenager and they put you in clothes you don't like, or they you know have a ah mother figure who might be um suffocating.
00:06:29
alyssa
um But to others, like, oh, she's just understanding. But as a young woman, you're coming into your body, you're coming into society, like you feel already watched. um And for some people, that's just too much. And then having a overbearing figure above you with authority can even add to that pressure, like a what is it?
00:06:48
alyssa
Like a pot, but it's just boiling over. I felt that in the book and i felt that in the show.
00:06:54
alyssa
I don't know how they were able to bring that feeling into the show, but they did. Like you could feel the sweatiness of the South. Like it was intense.
00:06:54
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yes.
00:07:00
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yes. And something else that I thought was really interesting on the way they adapted it was in the book, when she's having memories, it's the words, she feels the words flare up on her body.
00:07:10
alyssa
Yes. Oh.
00:07:12
Sarah-Daye McDougall
And, you you know, to how do you show that on the screen? Well, they did it in like very quick flashbacks.
00:07:19
alyssa
see
00:07:19
Sarah-Daye McDougall
um And it would and then even you would see the word in in places. So I thought that was really well done.
00:07:25
alyssa
I think as well, like, um it's I haven't read that many books with self harm, just discussed so in in detail and being so integral to the main character. Most books I've read about mental health have been in relation to internal issues.
00:07:35
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah.
00:07:40
alyssa
So when it's mirrored both in her mind and on her body, her past and currently on her body in the present, like these scars, um it's almost like she wouldn't allow herself to forget. Like the trauma alone reminded her, but now the trauma is like physical, like on her.
00:07:50
Sarah-Daye McDougall
yeah
00:07:55
alyssa
um And we see that later on, and I'm sure we'll expand about how that impacts her present.
Amy Adams' Performance and Character Depth
00:08:00
alyssa
um I will say this. Amy Adams can do no wrong. Like i i I didn't have an actor in my mind when I read the book, but wow, I have no complaints.
00:08:05
Sarah-Daye McDougall
I know.
00:08:10
alyssa
She was amazing.
00:08:10
Sarah-Daye McDougall
ah yeah she really did.
00:08:11
alyssa
Yes.
00:08:12
Sarah-Daye McDougall
and we'll get into the characters and in a minute. But yeah, she and to go from something like enchanted to this, like really shows her range. Yeah.
00:08:20
alyssa
yes yeah Even even seeing her in Night Bitch, which I did i did an episode with friend on their podcast um about that book to film adaptation. She's not afraid, like to show the parts of womanhood that are ugly and terrifying and frustrating.
00:08:33
Sarah-Daye McDougall
ah
00:08:35
alyssa
And like, I've i've never seen an actress who's able to show things that like I've only had private conversations about with other women. And she shows that on screen, which is like, it just, it allows, um it allows you to read it in a book, but also to see it like on your phone screen or see it on your screen at home.
00:08:44
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Right.
00:08:51
alyssa
Like, you know, the trauma you had as a teenager does not wash away as an adult. Like who you were at 16 is not gone when you're 28 or 40.
00:08:58
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Right.
00:09:00
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah.
00:09:01
alyssa
Like that 16 year old is still inside of you.
00:09:02
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Ugh.
00:09:03
alyssa
um
00:09:04
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Mm-hmm.
00:09:04
alyssa
She's still there. ah All the mistakes you made, all of that, she's still there.
00:09:06
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah.
00:09:08
alyssa
So i think this book was, if and anything, like a love letter so like girlhood. and the darkness of girlhood that no one talks about. Like, it's not all like pretty and glowy and fun and like high school is the best years of my life.
00:09:16
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah.
00:09:20
alyssa
That is not, like girlhood is not like that for everyone. um
00:09:24
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Right.
00:09:24
alyssa
And that's that's okay. Even like the relation between a mother and a daughter, i feel like it's very rare. People talk about how like there's a bad part to that. like it It could get bad for some women.
00:09:35
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah.
00:09:35
alyssa
um And it's important it's important to highlight
Mother-Daughter Relationships and Generational Trauma
00:09:37
alyssa
that. Like not all mothers are well and how does that impact their daughters inherently?
00:09:42
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah. Yeah.
00:09:43
alyssa
so
00:09:43
Sarah-Daye McDougall
And I mean, when you have something like the Gilmore Girls, which is your like ideal, you know, idea of ah of a mother-daughter relationship.
00:09:45
alyssa
oh
00:09:49
alyssa
Best friends. Choose your mom and your best friend.
00:09:53
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah. And then, you know, that's not what it is like for everybody.
00:09:57
alyssa
Even Gilmore Girls, there was like, it's so idyllic. Like I, who doesn't love autumn?
00:10:03
Sarah-Daye McDougall
hmm.
00:10:04
alyssa
Who doesn't love a pop tart and an autumnal candle and wearing sweaters and not getting hot and sweaty. And like your makeup's always great. And the guy next door loves you back. Like all, like who doesn't want that scenario?
00:10:14
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Right.
00:10:16
alyssa
um But i i think it's one of those things where it's like not everyone's mom who had them at a very young age has the mental capacity to mature along with their child. Sometimes they don't want to be left behind.
00:10:28
alyssa
They don't want to feel abandoned.
00:10:28
Sarah-Daye McDougall
ah
00:10:29
alyssa
And there's a resentment there, I think, deep down. And I had never seen an author tap into that.
00:10:33
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah.
00:10:37
alyssa
feels very taboo. like it duff it it It was a de and a little bit taboo.
00:10:38
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yes, exactly.
00:10:41
alyssa
I love taboo topics. um How are you supposed to understand it if you don't discuss it?
00:10:46
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Exactly.
00:10:46
alyssa
You know, so the the crimes, you know, exactly.
00:10:48
Sarah-Daye McDougall
well and mental health in general, how are you supposed to understand it? and and And that taboo if we're not talking about it and we're afraid to talk about it.
00:10:51
alyssa
Exactly.
00:10:56
alyssa
Exactly. Even like the mental health element of this book, the true crime, if you want to say it, the crime element of this book, certain things I think got overshadowed because of how prominent the heart of the story is about.
00:11:10
alyssa
I really do think it's about identity, womanhood, girlhood, and the connection between a mother and her daughters.
00:11:17
Sarah-Daye McDougall
100%. Right.
00:11:17
alyssa
And how, um you know, like a when a tree rots, it rots from the bottom and it works its way up.
00:11:17
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah.
00:11:22
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah.
00:11:22
alyssa
It's a lot like that with a family. It's like the roots work their way up. Like this story is from like the roots up, you know?
00:11:28
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah, it is.
00:11:28
alyssa
So it was, it was, it's very, if if anything, it could easily be like a Southern Gothic. If you really think about it, it kind of is horrific.
00:11:35
Sarah-Daye McDougall
yeah but Yeah, definitely.
00:11:37
alyssa
Like in that way. Yeah.
00:11:39
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Definitely.
00:11:40
alyssa
yeah I don't want to give too much away, but that's like the best, I just, it felt claustrophobic. Like it felt like being stuck in a car in the summertime. Like it felt bad, you know?
00:11:47
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah. um You just mentioned not giving anything away. This is a spoilery podcast. Like if you're listening to this podcast, you've seen the, you've seen the show and read the book or, or one or the other.
00:11:53
alyssa
yeah
00:11:58
Sarah-Daye McDougall
um So don't, don't hesitate to give spoilers, especially in our next episode, we'll be getting into the meat of the story, especially ah couple of twists.
00:12:03
alyssa
away.
00:12:08
alyssa
there And there are, Gillian will never disappoint you, which I like.
00:12:09
Sarah-Daye McDougall
So.
00:12:12
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yes.
00:12:12
alyssa
um Also, the the men aren't all bad either.
00:12:12
Sarah-Daye McDougall
And.
00:12:15
alyssa
I appreciate that. And Gone Girl, I heard they're all trash.
00:12:16
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah.
00:12:17
alyssa
So it's nice to see that not all the men in the story are like horrific. Like, you know, if anything, they're being manipulated.
00:12:23
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Right. And I haven't read Gone Girl either. um and I haven't seen the movie in a very long time.
00:12:29
alyssa
Oh.
00:12:29
Sarah-Daye McDougall
So I can't i can't remember, you know, the men per se. But um I do really think her knowing what I know about Gone Girl and the twist from Gone Girl.
00:12:34
alyssa
Yeah.
00:12:40
alyssa
Right.
00:12:40
Sarah-Daye McDougall
And then, of course, reading this one. And I am coming on to your podcast soon to talk about another Gillian Flynn book.
00:12:46
alyssa
Yes.
00:12:47
Sarah-Daye McDougall
um So all of her books are very interesting and um what is the word?
00:12:57
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Complex.
00:12:58
alyssa
Yeah.
00:12:58
Sarah-Daye McDougall
ah yeah Very complex and and lots of interesting things to discuss. So um going back to the cultural impact of the show, um i do want to make note that the show was nominated for eight Emmys and
00:13:04
alyssa
I agree.
00:13:10
alyssa
Mm-hmm.
00:13:16
alyssa
which is insane.
00:13:17
Sarah-Daye McDougall
And Amy Adams and Patricia Patricia did win critics choice awards for best actress and best supporting actress. um So that just speaks to the quality of the show. I mean, of course it's HBO. So, you know, it's going to be a hit.
00:13:33
alyssa
They're not afraid to be edgy.
00:13:33
Sarah-Daye McDougall
um
00:13:34
alyssa
I think they're also prominently known for but being super edgy and like very True Blood, um the Leftovers.
00:13:35
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Edgy is such a good word for it. Yeah.
00:13:41
alyssa
Like I can think of a thousand shows that are not afraid to top into some very dark topics also i think true blood and the i think they're both um book to film adaptations or book to show adaptations i believe so yeah game of thrones yeah
00:13:45
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Cross the line. Yes.
00:13:52
Sarah-Daye McDougall
I think HBO does a few, like has done several page to screen adaptations. Cause yes, True Blood was a book. Yeah. Game of Thrones. Yeah. um So i may, I will surely be covering several HBO shows.
00:14:05
alyssa
yeah that was great cool mm-hmm
00:14:07
Sarah-Daye McDougall
So we've kind of already discussed a lot of the key themes, but um the generational trauma and psychological scars, we've kind of dug dug into that a little bit and then toxic femininity, you know, we hear our,
00:14:16
alyssa
yeah
00:14:20
alyssa
oh
00:14:21
Sarah-Daye McDougall
toxic masculinity a lot but I think this book um and show was a great example of what toxic femininity can be do you have any thoughts on that and like how the book um portrayed that and then how the show adapted that to
00:14:29
alyssa
I like that. Yeah.
Toxic Femininity and Conformity in 'Sharp Objects'
00:14:35
Sarah-Daye McDougall
screen mm-hmm
00:14:35
alyssa
I think that the concept of beauty is pain really sums up like Camille's mom um and and their dynamic, this concept of like the house reflected how she wanted to present herself on the outside versus how she really presented herself on the inside, the ways that her daughters felt they had to present themselves in order to please her.
00:14:49
Sarah-Daye McDougall
mm-hmm
00:14:56
Sarah-Daye McDougall
ah ha
00:14:57
alyssa
um Even just the concept of like, there's a scene I wonder and there's a scene both in the show and the book to, to my understanding, if I remember correctly, um, where she's in a changing room and her mom is trying to put her into an outfit.
00:15:07
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yes.
00:15:09
alyssa
She doesn't want to, she doesn't want to wear Um, we've all probably been there. Um, but it's situations like that where her mom is well aware of her scars. Like she knows, you know, um,
00:15:19
Sarah-Daye McDougall
ah har
00:15:20
alyssa
doesn't care enough to consider what her daughter may or may not want to display to the public. And this sense of like, as your mother, I know what you want.
00:15:25
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Right.
00:15:29
alyssa
I know what you need. I have this, I have this maternal instinct. Let me care for you. It it becomes, it goes from being sweet to insidious.
00:15:37
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Right.
00:15:37
alyssa
um And it's this, um, this concept, even in her sister, we see how the version she is when she's out in the world, she's able to explore um her appearance, her developing body, which she has every right to do.
00:15:49
alyssa
um
00:15:50
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Mm-hmm.
00:15:50
alyssa
But she's also aware of the power she has and the way that things can be perceived. And she plays off of certain elements of her femininity to the point where it becomes toxic to me. It definitely becomes toxic because when she's home, she's playing this like,
00:16:05
alyssa
pristine doll-like character. Yeah, like she's just cemented in this youth forever. And I remember in the book, I think the sister was like 13, 14.
00:16:05
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Dahl.
00:16:14
Sarah-Daye McDougall
<unk>
00:16:15
alyssa
In the show, she they aged her up, thank God. um And she was like 16, 18. I say thank God because creepy kids, red flag, in the episode we do together, there there is a creepy child.
00:16:23
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah.
00:16:26
alyssa
um But he's not like a two-year-old. Like he's like a pre-tween.
00:16:30
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Right.
00:16:31
alyssa
um
00:16:32
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Well, even like in reading the book, even as a 14-year-old, the things that she's doing is just like, I can't believe 14-year-old is doing this.
00:16:32
alyssa
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
00:16:38
alyssa
Scary.
00:16:40
Sarah-Daye McDougall
And
Character Psychology and the Murder Reveal
00:16:41
Sarah-Daye McDougall
then, of course, you know, the ending where she's actually, spoiler alert, the murderer.
00:16:41
alyssa
Yeah.
00:16:46
alyssa
Yes.
00:16:46
Sarah-Daye McDougall
um so this 14-year-old. But she got there because of what of her mother was doing to her. But yes.
00:16:51
alyssa
Right.
00:16:53
Sarah-Daye McDougall
um And so, yes.
00:16:53
alyssa
It escalates. ah quite a bit.
00:16:55
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yes.
00:16:56
alyssa
Yeah, that that, what is it? The temper tantrums. Whenever you see a child have a temper tantrum, people think kids don't have like physical strength.
00:16:59
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yes.
00:17:03
alyssa
When kids get upset, like, and things throw you know if you know, kids stomp or whatever.
00:17:04
Sarah-Daye McDougall
her
00:17:07
alyssa
When a kid is upset, like I have little brothers, you know, they can literally weigh themselves down. They don't want to move. Like kids, kids are quite strong.
00:17:13
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah. Yes. I have two children.
00:17:15
alyssa
um so so so I'm sure you've, if you've ever seen a kid of a meltdown, nothing will calm them down in that moment.
00:17:16
Sarah-Daye McDougall
So yes.
00:17:22
Sarah-Daye McDougall
No.
00:17:22
alyssa
They have to kind of just go through it
00:17:22
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah. You have to let it go Yeah. Yeah.
00:17:25
alyssa
Exactly. So when i when I imagined her rage ah and the things that she would physically have to do to commit the crimes she did, it didn't blow my mind.
00:17:32
Sarah-Daye McDougall
yeah
00:17:33
alyssa
I also study criminal justice. So um I'm in college.
00:17:35
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Oh.
00:17:37
alyssa
there's something But the concept of anger and what your body reacts to, people become quite strong. So even as a 14-year-old, it does not surprise me what she has done physically.
00:17:42
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yes.
00:17:44
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Well, and I have to just comment because i don't know if you saw the end credit scenes of the last episode.
00:17:45
alyssa
Yes.
00:17:50
alyssa
Yes.
00:17:51
Sarah-Daye McDougall
um What you're describing just now, i feel like the end credit scene really incap encapsulated that.
00:17:54
alyssa
who
00:17:58
Sarah-Daye McDougall
um because That pure rage that she, the actress, is is showing during those quick little snippets of of the murders.
00:17:59
alyssa
spooky
00:18:05
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah.
00:18:05
alyssa
yeah because your brain in the books I remember just the descriptions of the victims was enough for me to be like okay I know how they were unalives you know you you you get a concept like what happened to them um but the amount of rage like I was, I don't think we, in the books, I don't think we ever heard about it being like a so a sexual assault of any story.
00:18:27
alyssa
It really was just like torture.
00:18:29
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Correct.
00:18:29
alyssa
um um
00:18:29
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah.
00:18:31
alyssa
a
00:18:32
alyssa
And then in the, oh God.
00:18:32
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Well, in in the books, I don't remember if they talked about this in the movies, but that was a specific point is that they were not sexually assaulted and they, they were like, Oh, it must be a gay man, which is that Southern, uh, um,
00:18:40
alyssa
i said, I think no.
00:18:44
alyssa
No, no.
00:18:48
alyssa
which is horrible, what gave them the impression? um
00:18:52
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Right.
00:18:53
alyssa
but they But they assumed because they weren't hurt in a sexual manner, that they weren't, but it was it couldn't have been a, a may like it wouldn't have been a straight man.
00:18:53
Sarah-Daye McDougall
um
00:18:59
Sarah-Daye McDougall
woman. they would not They wouldn't accept that it could have been a woman, but it wasn't a man.
00:19:03
alyssa
Right.
00:19:04
Sarah-Daye McDougall
it could have been a gay man, um but it wasn't it wasn't a man because they weren't sexually assaulted and it couldn't be a woman, so it had to have been a gay man. like it's just like The ah mental gymnastics they had to do to get to that point.
00:19:14
alyssa
They were jumping to conclusions. It was insane.
00:19:17
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah.
00:19:18
alyssa
It gave her so much room. Like, it it to me, to not question the girl's friends, like, to not question, like, who they were around, like, the clickiness of it all, um it would it blew my mind.
00:19:25
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Right.
00:19:32
alyssa
Also, like, the the little boy who said he saw a woman in the woods with the white dress, and, like, in my mind, I'm like, woman in the woods? Like, im you know, maybe it was a scary story you heard.
00:19:43
alyssa
Like, my brothers say things all the time. They're children.
00:19:46
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Right.
00:19:46
alyssa
but You have to believe children.
00:19:47
Sarah-Daye McDougall
right And a white a woman in a white dress in the woods is like your classic horror ghost story.
00:19:49
alyssa
Right. Ghost.
00:19:52
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Right.
00:19:52
alyssa
Yeah, it's getting ghost.
00:19:52
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Right.
00:19:53
alyssa
But even just hearing about the description of the girl being found between the two buildings and the teeth being removed. For me, as someone who's gone to the dentist many a time, it takes a lot of physical strength to remove a tooth. I have a tooth removed from my wisdom teeth.
00:20:08
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Mm-hmm.
00:20:08
alyssa
I, you know, even though you're knocked out It's a lot of strength. So that's sitting here and I'm like, if a grown man, it requires quite a bit.
00:20:13
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Uh-huh.
00:20:17
alyssa
How's a 14 year old girl going to do that? Sorry.
00:20:19
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Right.
00:20:19
alyssa
But like um in my brain, I did have to kind of suspend belief a little bit um on that end.
00:20:25
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Mm-hmm.
00:20:25
alyssa
Because as someone who has had work done, I'm just like, oh, how? um
00:20:30
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Well, and I did read an interview with Gillian Flynn that she did do the research to
Adora's Mental Illness and Its Impact
00:20:34
Sarah-Daye McDougall
make sure a 14-year-old girl could pull teeth.
00:20:34
alyssa
Okay.
00:20:37
alyssa
I'm like, dang girl. Like it's the yeah all because she wanted her mom's
00:20:38
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah.
00:20:41
alyssa
their agreement, she wanted her her attention, this agreement that if she allowed her to ah make her sick, to care for her, that this there this love and this attention would remain.
00:20:42
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Attention. Yes. Right. Mm-hmm.
00:20:55
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yes.
00:20:55
alyssa
The mother, because of her mental illness, which I don't even know, is it not?
00:20:55
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah.
00:21:01
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Munchausen's by proxy.
00:21:01
alyssa
month Yes. So to make her children sick, to care for them, she is, it's like the Dr. Jekyll, Mr. Hyde in the sense where she causes the problem, but she also fixes it.
00:21:11
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yes.
00:21:11
alyssa
Like, you know, that horrible cycle, even with Camille's other sister, who we find out passed away, in the back of my mind, I was like, wasn't she super young?
00:21:17
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Right.
00:21:20
alyssa
Like, I i you heard being described as being sick all the time. I was like, what did she have? Like, it was just that concept of like, did she have, but it was never really, so once we discovered what happened with the mom, I was like, oh, that makes sense.
00:21:27
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Right.
00:21:32
alyssa
Because it was never spelled out, like what illness she had, you know?
00:21:32
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yes.
00:21:35
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah.
00:21:35
alyssa
Mm-hmm.
00:21:35
Sarah-Daye McDougall
And poor Camille, like she's seeing the same thing happen with Emma, but doesn't when she finally puts two and two together and makes the realization that her mom is is sick in the head.
00:21:45
alyssa
Right.
00:21:46
Sarah-Daye McDougall
um She feels so much guilt that she let that happen to her sister and is and is letting that happen currently to Emma. And like, how did I not see this before?
00:21:55
alyssa
I think it breaks my heart because like um for anyone who has children or who has siblings or who has friends who you know are in a tough mental situation or have a toxic family situation. you blame yourself. Like, why didn't I see it earlier?
00:22:07
alyssa
But in my mind, I'm like the same way when you read a book, you don't know the ending till you get to the ending. um It doesn't matter how smart you are. um Abuse can happen anywhere. And to take on that blame and to continue, the cycle only continues if you continue to blame yourself as the it was my fault.
00:22:23
alyssa
No, it was it was the mother's fault.
00:22:24
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Right.
00:22:25
alyssa
Like it truly was, you know, unaliving her daughter because just pushing and pushing and pushing and continuing to make her sick. She took away her future. She did she took away her life.
00:22:34
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah.
00:22:34
alyssa
um
00:22:35
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah.
00:22:35
alyssa
And then to have another daughter on top of that, the age gap as well. ah Camille, I believe is in her mid thirties, early forties.
00:22:43
Sarah-Daye McDougall
ah
00:22:43
alyssa
And then her sister at the in the book was 13, 14, and the show is 16, 18. The mom chose to have another child. Even the father in the story, we could always debate, was he complicit or did he turn a blind eye?
00:22:53
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Right.
00:22:55
alyssa
How did we not know?
00:22:55
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah. And it's never really like blatantly stated.
00:22:57
alyssa
You know? Yeah, he was living there. How did he not know? um
00:23:02
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Right.
00:23:02
alyssa
and he was not, I'm sure you saw as well in the book and the show, he wasn't in he wasn't in control. Like that dynamic of like the father, that that nuclear family she was trying to create, he was like a a set he wasn't those the spine, he wasn't the core of the family, was.
00:23:07
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Right.
00:23:15
Sarah-Daye McDougall
No, not at all. No.
00:23:17
alyssa
Yeah, and that toxic core, like the roots of a tree, it just it infected everything, including her daughter, which was, I just, and that's my thing is like nurture versus nurture.
00:23:25
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah.
00:23:28
alyssa
Was her daughter evil already? Or did she become evil because of her her mother and what her mother did to her?
00:23:32
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah. Yeah, definitely.
00:23:34
alyssa
don't know.
00:23:35
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah.
00:23:35
alyssa
Yeah, are killers made or, you know, what happens?
00:23:36
Sarah-Daye McDougall
and Always an interesting topic. Right. Exactly.
00:23:37
alyssa
Yeah, it's a theory.
00:23:38
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah.
00:23:39
alyssa
It's a theory, you know? So this book, if anything, like I said, girlhood, is girlhood toxic?
00:23:40
Sarah-Daye McDougall
yeah
00:23:43
alyssa
Can it become toxic in the wrong environment?
00:23:46
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah.
00:23:46
alyssa
I don't, it's a good question.
00:23:46
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah.
00:23:47
alyssa
um
00:23:48
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah.
00:23:48
alyssa
we when we meet her When we meet her in in the first few chapters, you don't look at this young girl and think predator. Like you don't look at her and think killer, you know?
00:23:56
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Right.
00:23:56
alyssa
But like there were certain things she said throughou throughout the book and I was like, what do you mean by that?
00:23:56
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Mm hmm.
00:24:00
alyssa
Like once you know the twist, you're like, what do you mean by that?
00:24:02
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yes. When you reread it Yeah. All the little Easter eggs. I mean, and then even in the show, there's not Easter eggs so much as like watching the actress that plays Emma and like the way she reacts to things.
00:24:05
alyssa
Exactly. Mm-hmm.
00:24:14
Sarah-Daye McDougall
and Like you start to notice that.
00:24:15
alyssa
Yes.
00:24:16
Sarah-Daye McDougall
And that's what I love about a rewatch or a reread. ah But let's get into our key character discussions.
00:24:22
alyssa
Let's do it
00:24:23
Sarah-Daye McDougall
So I'll talk about the characters and who played the character. And just let me know if you think that they did a really great job, if it was a good casting or not. So, of course, first up, we're going to have Camille Prager, who is our main um protagonist here.
00:24:39
Sarah-Daye McDougall
And, of course, played by the beautiful Amy Adams. And I know we spoke earlier that you said she can do no wrong.
00:24:41
alyssa
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:24:45
alyssa
i don't think i i don't I don't think I've ever seen her in a film where she gave like 2%. Like I feel like she's committed herself to every role.
00:24:51
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Right.
00:24:52
alyssa
um i I think there's something about seeing her angry or like even just seeing her like in control, like behind the scenes.
00:24:57
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Mm-hmm.
00:25:01
alyssa
I love how she gets this quiet, like her her facial reactions, like you can see her. kind of calculating her next move. There was a film where she was um part of a cult, which alluded to Scientology.
00:25:08
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah.
00:25:13
alyssa
um
00:25:13
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Mm-hmm.
00:25:14
alyssa
And there was a man who was supposed to be controlling everything.
00:25:14
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Mm-hmm.
00:25:16
alyssa
And she was always in the background and she was the wife. And you see him like look to her, like he'd always look across the room to her, like for permission, even though he was leading the group.
00:25:24
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Mm-hmm.
00:25:26
alyssa
And Amy Adams being this quiet, like meek wife, you see her like nod and like push him aside. There are certain things where you realize she's really in control. um So it's little things like that where I'm like, Amy Adams has the ability to play like so well.
00:25:34
Sarah-Daye McDougall
hu huh
00:25:41
Sarah-Daye McDougall
It's not just speaking lines. It's their it's their body movement.
00:25:44
alyssa
100% like throughout the show i could see whenever you could see her like flash to the past or when you see her had that itch there also is um substance abuse in this
00:25:54
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yes.
00:25:55
alyssa
book and show um the i always feel bad saying like um trigger warnings a b and c because i don't want to ever speak wrong of anything um but going into this book should i have read it at 18 probably not i probably should have waited until i was in like you know my mid-20s but i'm now i'm like i'm grateful i read it because it did flesh out like alcoholism um you know cutting and and how everything she was experiencing in her mind she put into her body
00:25:57
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Mm-hmm.
00:26:08
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Mm-hmm.
00:26:23
alyssa
And she harmed herself to to kind of pull herself back in that space. um Just the like like the psychology of it all, you feel for Camille. And when she's drinking and when she is trying to kind of blur out all of this pain, like she's in a consistent state of pain.
00:26:40
alyssa
um And throughout the entire book, you just want her so to finally get a break.
00:26:43
Sarah-Daye McDougall
yeah
00:26:44
alyssa
um So I feel like Amy Adams, if anything, if I could put one word to her acting in the show, besides being amazing, she was exhausted. Like she was emotionally, physically exhausted.
00:26:51
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Oh, yeah.
00:26:53
alyssa
Yeah.
00:26:55
Sarah-Daye McDougall
And I think Amy actually said that like this role was like it really put her in a dark place and she would she didn't know she would come back for a season two if that was an option because it is such a dark character.
00:26:55
alyssa
Oh.
00:26:58
alyssa
Oh,
00:27:04
alyssa
oh God. I couldn't, I'm kind of glad they ended it where they ended it because the book ends at such a, like you're in like half a breath, you go, yeah like you you feel, I did not feel like I caught my breath.
00:27:09
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yes.
00:27:16
alyssa
I didn't feel like I could sleep well at night. Like it ended in a very like knee jerk reaction.
00:27:19
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yes. Yeah.
00:27:22
alyssa
The show for me just left me wanting to take a shower. I felt terrified. Yeah.
00:27:26
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah. I hear that.
00:27:27
alyssa
So Amy Adams, I think she she gave, I have really bad anxiety. So seeing her in the show, I had to take breaks sometimes as well. Cause I was like, um for if any for anyone who ever overthinks, you know, or like thinks about what they did in high school, you what you did three days ago and you think, oh, that was so cringy or, oh, I hate that I did that.
00:27:33
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yes.
00:27:38
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Mm-hmm.
00:27:44
alyssa
The self-loathing was insane.
00:27:46
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Mm-hmm.
00:27:47
alyssa
I was like, oh, she regrets a lot.
00:27:48
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah.
00:27:50
alyssa
um So I think the casting was amazing.
00:27:50
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah.
00:27:52
alyssa
I couldn't have imagined anyone who could have done that better.
00:27:54
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah, after seeing it, there's definitely nobody else that could play Camille.
00:27:58
alyssa
I agree.
00:27:59
Sarah-Daye McDougall
So next up, we have her mother, Adora Kretlin, played by Patricia Clarkson.
00:28:01
alyssa
ah gosh.
00:28:07
alyssa
I thought it was very good casting. What do i what do you think? i i will I won't lie. I was imagining someone else, but I wasn't mad with the casting.
00:28:16
alyssa
wasn't mad. Yeah.
00:28:16
Sarah-Daye McDougall
I'm with you.
00:28:17
alyssa
Yeah.
00:28:17
Sarah-Daye McDougall
yeah Reading the book, I imagined somebody else, but I thought Patricia really embodied the character of Adora very well and just gave that really eerie, but like creepy mom vibes.
00:28:21
alyssa
i
00:28:24
alyssa
yeah
00:28:29
alyssa
nine I imagined um ah younger Meryl Streep. That's who I imagined.
00:28:35
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Ah, mm-hmm.
00:28:36
alyssa
That's who I was imagined. I needed her to be controlling and I needed her to be incredibly classy and timeless, but insanely controlling, like behind the scenes.
00:28:39
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Mm-hmm.
00:28:41
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yes.
00:28:44
alyssa
I just imagined Meryl Streep. I could imagine her like ah deeply insulted, like very like Devil Wears Prada.
00:28:46
Sarah-Daye McDougall
yeah Yep.
00:28:50
alyssa
I needed her to be like you're like, I'm done with you. You can leave.
00:28:53
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Mm-hmm.
00:28:54
alyssa
I needed her to be dismissive.
00:28:54
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yes.
00:28:55
alyssa
And I just, i like I think she did that in the show, but in the book, I needed someone cold who could switch to being warm.
00:28:55
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yes.
00:29:01
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Mm-hmm.
00:29:02
alyssa
You know, liked that though.
00:29:03
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Mm-hmm.
00:29:04
alyssa
In the show, I just seeing her eyes was like bright blue screen eyes.
00:29:07
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Well, and that's Adora's superpower, right? That's how she controls this whole town, is that she...
00:29:12
alyssa
That approval.
00:29:12
Sarah-Daye McDougall
is warm and welcoming when she wants and needs to be.
00:29:15
alyssa
man
00:29:17
Sarah-Daye McDougall
But underneath that, ex like underneath that is this calculating, you know, conniving woman.
00:29:17
alyssa
Oh yeah.
00:29:21
alyssa
It's calculation. she daughters
00:29:27
alyssa
in chokehold. heard she had her daughters like in a chokehold You what mean?
00:29:32
Sarah-Daye McDougall
hmm.
00:29:32
alyssa
Like there was something about like, when I think of like um a good mother, I think of someone who's nurturing, warm, who's gives it to you straight, who's honest. You can be aware of your strength and your influence and not use it at every turn.
00:29:45
alyssa
Like just cause you can, doesn't mean you should, you know?
00:29:46
Sarah-Daye McDougall
hu Yeah, yeah.
00:29:48
alyssa
um Yeah. Just like, I think the only way I can give for her, for her acting the role she had to be selfish. Like she had to be like incredibly, like controlling, like a closing hand, like you can't escape.
00:30:00
alyssa
It had to feel that way. I think she did a great job.
00:30:02
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah, yeah.
00:30:03
alyssa
I just acting wise, I would not have casted her, but I did enjoy her acting. That sounds horrible, but I enjoyed her acting.
00:30:07
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yes. Yeah. No, no, I'm with you. I agree with you. Yeah.
00:30:11
alyssa
Yeah, but I'm surprised.
00:30:11
Sarah-Daye McDougall
um That moves us to Emma, little sister, ah played by Eliza Scanlon.
00:30:14
alyssa
Yes.
00:30:19
alyssa
Yeah.
00:30:19
Sarah-Daye McDougall
I think ah same kind of feelings I have about Adora wouldn't have been my first choice, but I think she really nailed it, especially that last line of the show.
00:30:21
alyssa
All right.
00:30:29
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah.
00:30:29
alyssa
ah i I will say when I imagined her, even though i i i didn't know a lot of actresses that young at that age, I i did imagine like a really young um Amanda Stiefred or –
00:30:46
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Mm-hmm.
00:30:47
alyssa
That's who I am. I had to be like a cherub.
00:30:48
Sarah-Daye McDougall
and
00:30:49
alyssa
Like she had to be blonde and like had to look like super pretty and like the whole like her thinking that she was like hot shit, like out of the house.
00:30:50
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah. Right.
00:30:58
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah.
00:30:58
alyssa
she thought she was that popular good girl. In a small town, she was, you know?
00:31:02
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yes.
00:31:03
alyssa
um But when she goes home, just seeing her change her clothes, change her hair, change her mannerisms, change her voice, like be able to switch that way.
00:31:08
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:31:11
alyssa
um love this actress. Like I think I had to say like, seeing her at the dining room table in certain scenes, like just the way she married herself, her eyes, to me, her eyes were so expressive.
00:31:19
Sarah-Daye McDougall
yeah h Yes.
00:31:25
alyssa
Like the the vibe of like, get me out. But now that we know she was the killer, it's like, oh, you manipulative.
00:31:31
Sarah-Daye McDougall
But see, I think she still wanted out. Like she knew her mom was doing this to her Yeah.
00:31:35
alyssa
Her mom was bad.
00:31:37
Sarah-Daye McDougall
And, but I think she didn't really know.
00:31:38
alyssa
Yeah.
00:31:39
Sarah-Daye McDougall
And I think that's why she ended up killing the girls she because she needed an outlet. And unfortunately that was her outlet.
00:31:43
alyssa
yeah
00:31:45
Sarah-Daye McDougall
um But she did want,
00:31:46
alyssa
But the mom takes the fall. Like her mom gets brought to jail. But we know she's not the killer.
00:31:50
Sarah-Daye McDougall
I know this isn't really character discussion, but do you think she knew Emma killed the girls?
00:31:57
alyssa
Oh yes. I think the mom knew. The only reason I say I think the mom knew is because ah my mom said something really, really smart. And she was like, I know my children. Like, I know what you would do. i know what you would say. i know what you would do to cover something up.
00:32:11
alyssa
She's like, I just know my kids. She's like, I know everything about you.
00:32:13
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Okay. But to play devil's advocate,
00:32:15
alyssa
I think she would know.
00:32:17
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Did she really know Emma though? Because she did, she, or did she turn a blind eye to Emma?
00:32:19
alyssa
Oh, that's
00:32:24
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Like it going out and break, like, you know, she did all these things.
00:32:24
alyssa
true.
00:32:27
alyssa
That's
00:32:28
Sarah-Daye McDougall
She snuck out, you know? and so was that just her turning a blind eye or, you know, does she really not know?
00:32:31
alyssa
true.
00:32:34
alyssa
I thought the sneaking out when she brought the other girls in, low-key thought it was like a punishment to Emma, like from the mom to Emma.
00:32:41
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Hmm.
00:32:42
alyssa
I thought a little bit in my mind, if she really wanted to like mess with her head, She knows she wants all the attention.
00:32:49
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Wow.
00:32:49
alyssa
So your punishment isn't going to be her saying something that dismissiveness and for someone who seeks attention. What is the worst punishment?
00:32:57
Sarah-Daye McDougall
You just like gave me a whole nother layer of this book story.
00:32:59
alyssa
um I just, I'm just, I, you know, i ah god my ah my brain is just like, um exactly.
00:33:02
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah. Because it was like a game of cat and mouse between the two of them.
00:33:07
alyssa
They were so talk. And that's my thing. Like what makes me feel the most uncomfortable is the father lived there and didn't
00:33:15
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah.
00:33:15
alyssa
he like He didn't notice like certain things. i just That was like the biggest, like something's wrong here. like There was no check and balance.
00:33:23
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah.
00:33:24
alyssa
There was no balance.
00:33:25
Sarah-Daye McDougall
So let's, let's talk about Alan.
00:33:27
alyssa
Yeah.
00:33:27
Sarah-Daye McDougall
um Dad, Alan Carlin is played by Henry um Cerny.
00:33:31
alyssa
and here
00:33:33
Sarah-Daye McDougall
It's C-Z-E-R-N-Y. So I'm going to say Cerny.
00:33:36
alyssa
I butcher names, so it's okay.
00:33:36
Sarah-Daye McDougall
um yes me too. So um how do you think of his performance of Alan?
00:33:42
alyssa
I imagined Alan as the father from the parent trap. um
00:33:46
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Okay. Okay.
00:33:47
alyssa
I imagined him more good looking, but I, ah but speaking as a lesbian, I'm sitting here.
00:33:49
Sarah-Daye McDougall
ah
00:33:52
alyssa
I imagined him as a very good looking man. um But I, um I liked the father's acting because I felt like he was incredibly separated. Like if he, unless he separated himself, I don't know, but I felt like he had seen so much
00:34:02
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah.
00:34:07
alyssa
And like he had already lost one daughter. Camille lives far away. um Like she doesn't talk
Alan's Role and Complicity in Family Issues
00:34:14
alyssa
to them anymore. And then his his only daughter that's living there is like a mama's girl.
00:34:18
alyssa
But she's sick all the time. He already saw that with his his other daughter. I just, I feel like he had either accepted his fate and accepted the situation, whatever he did know, or he was so removed from,
00:34:22
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah.
00:34:30
alyssa
And so um beat down. Like I felt like he was so beat down, like in both the book and the show. um Being married to someone who's so dismissive of you and manipulative, I could only imagine like that sense of like defeat.
00:34:41
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah, and manipulative.
00:34:47
alyssa
So i felt I felt bad for him.
00:34:48
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah. hu Yeah.
00:34:50
alyssa
But once we figure out what what the mom is doing to the daughter, I couldn't anymore because I was like, you never said anything. like you didn't and don't He didn't put any of the – she's always sick, but there's no ah there's no name for this sickness, like this illness.
00:35:01
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Right.
00:35:02
alyssa
They're not taking her to the doctor. do you mean? like It was things like that where I was like, any parent I know, if their child is sick and it's it's consistent, like you would take them to the doctor.
00:35:12
alyssa
So it was little things like that that I was like, I think the father is somewhat aware.
00:35:13
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yep.
00:35:17
alyssa
So I liked the casting. I did. I did enjoy that.
00:35:18
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah.
00:35:19
alyssa
Sorry, all my question all my answers are so long.
00:35:19
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Good.
00:35:21
alyssa
I'm so sorry
00:35:21
Sarah-Daye McDougall
and No, I love it.
00:35:23
alyssa
Yes. Yeah.
00:35:24
Sarah-Daye McDougall
um So let's move on to Detective Richard Willis, played by Chris Messina.
00:35:27
alyssa
but Yes. I liked him. I think every single time that he was on screen, i i it was nice to be around someone other than the family to me.
00:35:32
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah.
00:35:37
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yes.
00:35:37
alyssa
it Same thing with the book. It it gave ah perspective.
00:35:40
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Mm-hmm.
00:35:40
alyssa
um If you're around crazy for long enough, you become crazy. So it just, it kind of felt that way a little bit.
00:35:43
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah. Well, and I think that he really did a good job of showing the emotion and the care he did have for Camille and the the heartbreak that he kind of felt when she ended up sleeping with John Keane.
00:35:52
alyssa
She knew that.
00:35:57
alyssa
I don't think she could accept love at that point, like in that way. I think that like attention is so warped for her.
00:36:06
Sarah-Daye McDougall
hmm.
00:36:06
alyssa
And like, I think the only wholesome relationship she had in the book and in the show was with her boss.
00:36:06
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah.
00:36:12
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah.
00:36:13
alyssa
Who like a father figure. I think that's the only really, even her sister, I feel like it was more like this savior complex.
00:36:14
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yes.
00:36:20
Sarah-Daye McDougall
ah
00:36:21
alyssa
And her still grappling with her grief of her other sister.
00:36:21
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah.
00:36:24
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah, for
00:36:24
alyssa
i don't really think she loved. Really loved. like who her I don't think she could see.
00:36:29
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Especially with the fallout she had at the end.
00:36:30
alyssa
No. Oh god.
00:36:31
Sarah-Daye McDougall
like So the show doesn't give us this, but in the book we get a lot of the fallout after it's revealed that Emma is actually the one that murdered everybody.
00:36:36
alyssa
Hell yeah.
00:36:39
alyssa
no
00:36:40
Sarah-Daye McDougall
um And I believe she cuts herself again. and she the the boss and his wife really have to help her back out of this. And I don't think she really healed until – like she didn't hit rock bottom at the beginning of the story.
00:36:47
alyssa
so yeah
00:36:54
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Rock bottom was definitely the end of the story even though she thought I know.
00:36:54
alyssa
No.
00:36:56
alyssa
oo I felt like rock bottom was the scene where she had to drug herself. Like where she had, where she was all fucked up and she was, she was in the bad, she was fighting for life. And like, thought that was because she knew at that point, like what a mind, what a mind fuck to know your mom is, was doing the same thing to you that she did to your other sister who did actually have a relationship with.
00:37:15
Sarah-Daye McDougall
doing this to you. Yeah.
00:37:19
alyssa
That for me was like psychologically, like how much darker can it get? We do find out it gets darker. We do, we do. But in in my head, I was like, imagine like, have you ever seen, um i can't I can't help but bring it up because it's very similar.
00:37:25
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah.
00:37:32
alyssa
um in M. Night Shyamalan's film, And the sixth sense, which everyone knows, like he was dead the whole time. um In the sixth sense, there's a scene where ah a young boy can see ghosts and he sees a little girl and she's pointing to a box of movies.
00:37:47
alyssa
And in the box of movies, you see that her stepmom was giving her um rat poison and was making her sicker and sicker.
00:37:52
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Mm-hmm.
00:37:54
alyssa
They're at her funeral and the and the boy puts the film into the TV and in and the father's able to see what was what was happening to his daughter, why she really died. um And the stepmom is the only one wearing red at the funeral, red being a symbol of death and this consistency in the film.
00:38:08
alyssa
Long story short, she's able to communicate how she died, what her mom had, what her stepmom had done to her. um you know cause and effect. And in this situation, the book was the same way as the show to me.
00:38:21
alyssa
The cause was this this constant need for the mother to have control. i can care for you. i can You're sick. I can care for you. I have purpose. You can't leave me. I have purpose. And for her daughters, it was this trust.
00:38:33
alyssa
You know what mean? My mom will care for me. She would never let anything happen to me. And because she cares for me, the effect is that I get attention. We both win.
00:38:41
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah. Yeah.
00:38:43
alyssa
But if you're constantly sick and these drugs, your young body is still developing and your liver can only take so much. Like there's no, there's no consideration for your child's well-being.
00:38:50
Sarah-Daye McDougall
I know.
00:38:53
alyssa
It's just this cause and effect, this constant cycle. Camille was able to escape, but on the downside, she never, i don't think she really did, you know?
00:38:55
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah. Yeah.
00:39:00
alyssa
um
00:39:01
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah. Well, and like I said, in the book, I think you get a little bit of um ah an epilogue for her and ah Currie's taking care of her.
00:39:02
alyssa
So.
00:39:07
alyssa
Mm-hmm.
00:39:09
Sarah-Daye McDougall
So I do see a light in the end of the tunnel.
00:39:11
alyssa
Finally a loving relationship.
00:39:12
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yes.
00:39:12
alyssa
Finally.
00:39:13
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah, I see the light at the end of the tunnel for her with the Currie's.
00:39:15
alyssa
Finally.
00:39:17
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Speaking of the Currie's, Frank Currie is played by Miguel Sandoval.
00:39:21
alyssa
good man.
00:39:21
Sarah-Daye McDougall
What do you think of his portrayal? We didn't really get as much with him in the show as we do the book, but...
00:39:23
alyssa
I love him. No.
00:39:27
Sarah-Daye McDougall
um
00:39:28
alyssa
I think the characteristics match. We needed him to be like call her on her shit.
00:39:30
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yes.
00:39:31
alyssa
Like when he told her to go to her hometown, of course, I don't think he knew
00:39:36
Sarah-Daye McDougall
No.
00:39:37
alyssa
how bad it was if he had known i don't think out of just respect he would have sent her back but then again that's the i think that's like the the mortal flaw with camille so she only discloses so much like she keeps people at such an arm's length so that character her boss i don't think he was even allowed to really be close to her in any capacity until really the end
00:39:38
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Right.
00:39:50
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Mm-hmm.
00:40:00
alyssa
um But and it was nice to have him but in the show, at least as a voice of, I guess a voice of reason. Like the the bodies are adding up. You need to write about it for your job. But at the same time, like be careful.
00:40:10
alyssa
Like he cared about her, not for, you know, anything.
00:40:12
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah. And he did, i think, feel going home would be some sort of closure for her.
00:40:18
alyssa
Oh my God.
00:40:19
alyssa
and
00:40:19
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Because, I mean, we open up and we see that she's not doing well.
00:40:22
Sarah-Daye McDougall
like She's an alcoholic, you know, so, um and you know, she her you can see visually in the show her apartment's not really well kept.
00:40:22
alyssa
Mm-hmm.
00:40:30
Sarah-Daye McDougall
So I think he really did think that this would be helpful for her.
00:40:33
alyssa
yeah
00:40:34
Sarah-Daye McDougall
um And I do think that in the long run, like after everything came out, I think she did end up getting closure, finding out what really happened to her sister. And maybe even deep down, she really did know um mom did something.
00:40:46
alyssa
I think she did. i think that's part of the the the alcoholism. Maybe it was like ah to cope.
00:40:49
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Right. mean, yeah.
00:40:51
alyssa
Yeah, just a sense of cope. I cannot tell you enough. I really do think the mom knew like all this time.
00:40:57
Sarah-Daye McDougall
About Emma. Yeah, I do think that she was covering for her.
00:40:58
alyssa
Yeah, I think she knew. I think bringing the girls over was a sense of punishment. you know, if you're going to sneak out you're going do this and that, you're going leave me. I'll just bring someone else to replace you.
00:41:08
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Right.
00:41:08
alyssa
And that rage and like, you know i mean? And for her daughter, that rage of like, I can't, I can have both. I can have my outside life and my home life as messed up as it is. Her mom's like, no, I'm lonely. I need a new toy.
00:41:19
alyssa
Hence the dollhouse vibes.
00:41:19
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Right.
00:41:20
alyssa
Like I need a new toy. It's a human life, you know, but she, she didn't see it that way.
00:41:25
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Right.
00:41:26
alyssa
Yeah.
00:41:27
Sarah-Daye McDougall
um I want to wrap up and just get your initial
Praising the TV Adaptation of 'Sharp Objects'
00:41:30
Sarah-Daye McDougall
thoughts of the adaptation.
00:41:30
alyssa
Yeah.
00:41:33
Sarah-Daye McDougall
um and I'm going to skip our character arc discussion for our next part because I feel like this story in particular is so heavy on the character development.
00:41:38
alyssa
Okay.
00:41:41
alyssa
Yeah.
00:41:44
Sarah-Daye McDougall
So let's move that to our next episode.
00:41:47
alyssa
I agree. Curious development too.
00:41:48
Sarah-Daye McDougall
um But wrap up this episode.
00:41:50
alyssa
You only get worse.
00:41:51
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Let's wrap up this episode with um your initial thoughts of the adaptation.
00:41:54
alyssa
Yeah. Honestly, this was one of the best book to show adaptations I've seen. i have to say, especially with such dark,
00:42:00
Sarah-Daye McDougall
yeah
00:42:02
alyssa
um material I really enjoyed how they displayed each of the core women in this story. i never felt bored with Camille's kind of point of view. And I enjoyed that at least from the book to the show.
00:42:15
alyssa
and the book, we only see things from Camille's point of view versus the show. We get to see certain things when she's not around, which gave a lot more perspective and was quite nice.
00:42:19
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Right. Yes. Yes.
00:42:22
alyssa
um
00:42:23
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yes.
00:42:24
alyssa
But I honestly feel like I was, I was scared for Camille, but also I couldn't look away. And that, that, that sense of, uh,
00:42:31
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah.
00:42:33
alyssa
capturing your attention and the pacing was beautifully done. So I think there's a great adaptation. That's my best summary of it.
00:42:39
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah, and for, you know, we've read the book and for the show to still grasp us, even though we know what's going to happen at the end, but we're still very enthralled with the story.
00:42:45
alyssa
Oh yeah.
00:42:49
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Like, you just have to give them props because, you know, it's hard to keep your attention when you already know what's happening.
00:42:55
alyssa
Hmm.
00:42:56
Sarah-Daye McDougall
And, like, i was still I was still on the edge of my seat, even though I know where this is going. So kudos to HBO.
00:43:01
alyssa
Yeah, i i pacing was great. Pacing, I also think that seeing – like Amy Adams is a beautiful woman, but the way that she had to physically like drain herself of color, those she looked like she was seriously combating alcoholism, trauma, PTSD, um continuing the self-harm to this day.
00:43:07
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Mm-hmm.
00:43:18
Sarah-Daye McDougall
All of the things.
00:43:19
alyssa
all of All of it.
00:43:19
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah.
00:43:20
alyssa
It just – everything. I think the only other actress I can think of who's done that was um Emily Blunt in The Girl on the Train.
00:43:27
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Mm-hmm.
00:43:27
alyssa
um where another book to film adaptation where she had, she had to physically, she also dealt with alcoholism.
00:43:29
Sarah-Daye McDougall
yes
00:43:32
alyssa
She also had trauma. Both those women and those characters had things repressed. And that's my only thing. I think the alcohol repressed a lot of things they could not deal with sober.
00:43:42
alyssa
They could not deal with on their own.
00:43:43
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah. Well, and that's, you know, you know what alcoholism and drug addiction is, is yeah.
00:43:48
alyssa
hundred percent. So had she just had the support, I think had she just had the support and like the no judgment and, um, uh,
00:43:49
Sarah-Daye McDougall
All about. Yeah. yeah
00:43:57
alyssa
Honestly, I love therapy. I think had she had that option, maybe she would have been able to see her mom, not for the horror, you know, she probably wouldn't be able see everything, but I think it would have helped the character at least to be able to really unpack things.
00:44:00
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah.
00:44:07
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah.
00:44:08
alyssa
So when she went back to that house, she was ready. i feel like she went back into that house and like her mom just a continued to feed on her.
00:44:12
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah, way too soon.
00:44:17
alyssa
um
00:44:17
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Oh yeah.
00:44:18
alyssa
Yeah. Even noticed the elephant in the room, but her mom was, unalived young girls like she didn't go after like adults like she only went after like youth 100 so it definitely gave me a similar vibe of like if we're going paranoid like a vampire like she feeds off them
00:44:24
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah.
00:44:26
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Right. Well, it's like a power move.
00:44:35
Sarah-Daye McDougall
And also, i just remembered this. i don't remember if the show touched on it, but in the book, definitely.
00:44:40
alyssa
know
00:44:42
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Adora also had a really hard childhood with her mom.
00:44:45
alyssa
She doesn't mean that. Yes. It's the cycle. Like the generational drama is insane.
00:44:48
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah. Generational trauma.
00:44:51
alyssa
Yeah.
00:44:51
Sarah-Daye McDougall
hu
00:44:51
alyssa
So the character developed, I think the only character who truly developed in a positive manner was Camille.
00:44:52
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yep.
00:44:56
alyssa
And it it makes me feel so bad for her sister because you she was a and product of her environment. But we can go into that in the next episode.
00:45:01
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yep.
00:45:02
alyssa
But I will say that so so good.
00:45:02
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yes, let's.
00:45:04
alyssa
Great. I would, for anyone who's okay with dark content, and who enjoys a good thriller and enjoys like a a good like twist moment.
00:45:08
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah.
00:45:12
alyssa
Ah, this is a great show. Like I would highly recommend it. You do not have to read the book to watch the show. It could, to me, it stands on its own.
00:45:16
Sarah-Daye McDougall
you
00:45:18
alyssa
It could easily stand on its own.
00:45:19
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Oh, and yeah, I mean, like we said at the top of the episode, this is a really great page to screen adaptation.
00:45:25
alyssa
Oh yeah.
00:45:25
Sarah-Daye McDougall
So, um you know, I personally believe the book is always better. But if you have to choose one, um ah the show is great on its own.
00:45:31
alyssa
Hmm.
00:45:33
alyssa
I think I would have to choose she the show, yeah.
00:45:34
Sarah-Daye McDougall
um And it didn't really leave. Yeah, it doesn't it didn't leave really anything out besides the little epilogue. But watch the show, then go read the epilogue.
00:45:41
alyssa
yeah i agree and if you like um sharp objects um then i would recommend another show called the mayor of east town um which is also quite good if you like like a claustrophobic small town thriller with a murder and like twisty family dynamics dark content uh trigger warning for sexual assaults um and incest if you're okay with dark stuff you don't mind
00:45:43
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah.
00:45:50
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Oh, yes.
00:46:07
alyssa
that's a great to follow this up. If you have like a hole in your heart, you're like, I need the darkness. Yeah. I think that's a great show. And I think it's also on, I think it's HBO max. I think, I think so.
00:46:16
Sarah-Daye McDougall
I think so. Yeah.
00:46:18
alyssa
HBO max.
00:46:18
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah.
00:46:18
alyssa
It's got a, it's got a, it's got a wrap for sure.
00:46:19
Sarah-Daye McDougall
It's got everything.
00:46:21
alyssa
um But yes, another good show to to touch the base on that. So yes, if you like that. Thank
00:46:26
Sarah-Daye McDougall
All right. Well, Alyssa, thank you for joining me tonight. And um i will see you next time on part two of Sharp Objects.
00:46:29
alyssa
you for having me.
00:46:32
alyssa
Cool.
00:46:33
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Listeners, thank you for joining us again for another episode. And we'll see you next week.
00:46:38
alyssa
See you next week.