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00:00:01
Holes: Part Two – Digging Deeper into the Story
34 Plays17 days ago
In this episode of Book Watch, we’re diving into the plot breakdown of Holes and its 2003 movie adaptation (Holes). How well did the film capture the heart of the book? What changes worked—and which ones missed the mark? 💡
In Part 2, we’ll explore:
✅ Plot changes, major omissions, and how well the adaptation stayed true to the book’s themes.
Join hosts Sarah-Daye, Jordyn, and Chris as they dig into the twists, flashbacks, and full-circle storytelling that make Holes such a timeless classic—and decide whether the movie really does justice to Louis Sachar’s layered tale. 🎬📚
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Transcript
Introduction and Overview
00:00:01
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Welcome back listeners to another episode of Book Watch. I have Chris and Jordan with me again for part two Holes where we will dive into the main plot points.
00:00:15
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Are you guys ready?
00:00:17
Chris
Ready, and let's do this.
00:00:18
Jordyn
Barn ready.
Stanley's Arrest and Camp Green Lake
00:00:19
Sarah-Daye McDougall
So we are introduced Stanley Yelnats and um you know he's arrested for stealing shoes that he actually didn't steal um and is sent to Camp Green Lake. um green lake And we are, um throughout the book, we as we're going through Stan Lee's time at Camp Green Lake, we are also getting um the story of his great, great, great, quick great ancestors.
00:00:55
Chris
No good, dirty, rotten, great, great grandfather.
00:00:57
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah. So there's that one who ah Kiss and Kate gets, right? And he survives at God's thumb. And then his prior to that, there's the um or no, he is the one that steals the pig, isn't he?
00:01:14
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Okay, so there's that one.
00:01:14
Chris
ah The one that steals the pig, and then the next generation is the one that got robbed by Kate, yeah.
00:01:18
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yes.
00:01:19
Chris
rob by kate yeah
00:01:21
Sarah-Daye McDougall
And so we get those two storylines, um you know, in interspaced with Stanley's time at Camp Greenlake but um let's rewind it back to the beginning and let's talk about kind of the introduction to ah the character of Stanley um in the book in his introduction to the film.
Film Adaptation Analysis
00:01:43
Chris
I think that and just jumping right into it the way they did in the movie, it was really good as far as they, they put us right on the way to camp and kind of explained everything else to it as they went, instead of ah trying to go through and tell the story up front.
00:01:56
Chris
It made for a good, Oh, why are we here? What's happening here? And i liked the way they kind of kept you guessing, you know, you saw this crime that, you know, seemed like he could have been guilty of. I mean, he, other than the fact that we see these shoes flying down from the sky, he's a fan of the guy.
00:02:06
Sarah-Daye McDougall
hu
00:02:11
Chris
He, had every reason to want those shoes on his, in his bedroom, I hanging up. So he could, i mean, other than the fact that they smell apparently, but he had every reason to want them. And then we have to find out why he didn't do it or what happened there.
00:02:25
Sarah-Daye McDougall
And speaking of the bus, i really appreciated that the cop that was on the bus had the sunglasses.
00:02:32
Chris
The only part I was missing from that was the can of ah Coke or whatever that they had when he gets to the camp in the book, there's a moment where you hear this, you know, he opens up a can to give to the, driver into the thing and stanley's just like oh i want some of that coke and i hope he's gonna give me one and there's like the the tension of man a crisp coca-cola would be great in the uh in the heat here all of a sudden but he didn't i they didn't have it in the film it was fine but i missed that a little bit
00:02:54
Sarah-Daye McDougall
yeah
00:02:58
Sarah-Daye McDougall
They do have that one little moment where Mr. Sir grabs a Coke out of the fridge and Stanley thinks he's handing it to him but he's actually handing it to the the gu the cop that was on the bus with him.
00:03:06
Chris
that's right
00:03:09
Chris
Oh, was there? I must have missed that a little bit in the film. I remember seeing the book having it.
00:03:11
Jordyn
Yeah.
00:03:13
Chris
I didn't see it when I was ah watching, so maybe it is there.
00:03:15
Jordyn
Yeah. I think, I think it works better with Mr. Sir. Cause it helps set up his character and the type of person that he is and like who exactly you're dealing with ah when you get to camp.
00:03:21
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Mm-hmm.
00:03:24
Chris
Slightly cruel a little bit, yeah.
00:03:25
Jordyn
So I think that was ah that was a good little change. Cause like the bus driver and the cop are literally there for two seconds in the book and the movie.
00:03:31
Chris
Right.
00:03:33
Jordyn
And so having that moment between them is like, whatever, but having, putting Mr.
00:03:33
Sarah-Daye McDougall
hu
00:03:37
Jordyn
Sir in that spot is like, helpful to furthering his development and his ah storyline.
00:03:44
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah, absolutely. A really good introduction to who he's going to be.
00:03:48
Chris
Then from there, Mr. Shurs peanut addiction, or or not peanut, but a sunflower addiction is an interesting plot point that sticks around through the whole thing.
00:03:58
Jordyn
Mm-hmm.
00:03:58
Chris
oh
Character Dynamics
00:03:58
Chris
Stop smoking, so he's eaten peen eaten these sunflower seeds.
00:04:01
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yep.
00:04:02
Jordyn
Mm-hmm.
00:04:03
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Jumping real far ahead um while we're on the topic of Mr. Sir, the did the film add that whole thing about him being a wanted man?
00:04:13
Chris
Yes. Yeah, that was a ah new thing for that, but it made sense.
00:04:14
Jordyn
Yeah.
00:04:14
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Okay. Yeah, I was like, wait, did I miss that the book?
00:04:18
Chris
It made sense that criminals would be working here in this you know capacity of that. So I liked that actually in some ways.
00:04:24
Sarah-Daye McDougall
I did too. yeah it was a nice little addition to kind of like his his backstory.
00:04:25
Jordyn
Yeah.
00:04:28
Chris
And really feeling his name was funny in the when you were a kid listening to, you know, Mary and being his name, Mary.
00:04:30
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yes.
00:04:34
Jordyn
yeah Yeah, and him and ah Mr. Pandansky too. they He's a fake doctor.
00:04:40
Chris
Yeah.
00:04:40
Jordyn
so like having all three of them just be like shady characters and like in on the warden's scheme, that was a good and another good little adjustment that the movie made.
00:04:40
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yes.
00:04:40
Chris
Yeah.
00:04:51
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Especially because there's other, so Mr.
00:04:51
Chris
Yeah.
00:04:54
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Pandansky is like the cabin's leader and there's other cabins.
00:04:58
Jordyn
Mm-hmm.
00:04:58
Sarah-Daye McDougall
So there's other cabin leaders.
00:04:59
Jordyn
Mm-hmm.
00:05:00
Sarah-Daye McDougall
So it's like, why is why in the film, the three of them are like very close. So it it gives you another kind of layer to that relationship that she knows that these are kind of like shady, shifty people.
00:05:14
Sarah-Daye McDougall
And that's why the three of them are so close as opposed to other camp counselors.
00:05:18
Chris
yeah
00:05:19
Jordyn
Yeah.
00:05:19
Chris
And thing is supposed to kind of have a reflection of our prison system and kind of the broken
00:05:23
Sarah-Daye McDougall
honey
Camp Green Lake as Societal Commentary
00:05:24
Chris
elements of the U.S.
00:05:24
Chris
prison system. So it kind of gives that lower level look at, oh, things are pretty corrupt in these like camps and stuff like that sometimes.
00:05:26
Sarah-Daye McDougall
For sure.
00:05:32
Chris
Or could be.
00:05:34
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah. So um let's talk about his family's introduction to the camp and kind of his cabin mates and kind of compare that to page to screen.
00:05:49
Chris
So when he gets there.
00:05:50
Jordyn
I think they're pretty similar. um The only thing that I can think of is the altercation that happens with one of the boys where he like trips over him or something.
00:06:00
Jordyn
and they're like are about to
00:06:01
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Right.
00:06:02
Jordyn
think that happens in the book much earlier because that's where he like gets the nickname caveman because he's looking at that that other kid and is like, oh my gosh, like that guy's huge. like Yeah, that that guy's caveman. But then it's like, no, like you're caveman.
00:06:15
Chris
Right.
00:06:15
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Mm-hmm.
00:06:15
Jordyn
um So that just like the shift in the timing there is the only difference.
00:06:21
Chris
And in the book, you almost don't realize it as the reader, too.
00:06:22
Jordyn
so
00:06:23
Chris
You don't realize, like, wait, who are they talking about? Caveman, Caveman. And then, you oh, that's right.
00:06:28
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Mm-hmm.
00:06:28
Chris
It's it's it's Stanley.
00:06:30
Sarah-Daye McDougall
And there's also, I believe, Zigzag. I know we talked in our last episode that um there's a little bit more drama with it between the boys in the film.
00:06:41
Sarah-Daye McDougall
um Especially, I think X-Ray is a little bit more aggressive. But also, think it was Zigzag had um like an altercation with Stan Lee at some point, which I didn't feel was in the book or at least not as intense.
00:06:55
Jordyn
It, it, I think it was. That part I actually remember
Hierarchy and Leadership in Camp
00:06:59
Jordyn
being like it was pretty spot on. Like the line, the dialogue was the same. Because it's um after like Zero and Stanley start doing the reading lessons and everybody else starts to get resentful that Zero's helping him dig the holes.
00:07:13
Jordyn
And Zigzag is the one who like tells the warden and like makes a big fuss about it.
00:07:17
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah. I might be misremembering and maybe I'm thinking about the push that we just talked about, but I felt like something happened in the cabin that I didn't, that didn't happen in the book, but I might be misremembering something.
00:07:19
Chris
right
00:07:30
Chris
And it might have just been a thing they felt was unnecessary to get the point across, and that made sense.
00:07:33
Sarah-Daye McDougall
hmm.
00:07:35
Jordyn
Yeah.
00:07:35
Chris
I think i get I got the point either way, that ah they have a hierarchy in this ah setup, and they don't like when somebody makes any change to the way things work around here.
00:07:44
Jordyn
Yeah. They make a point in the movie and the book to explain that X-Ray is kind of the leader of that cabin and he dictates where in line you stand for water.
00:07:54
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah.
00:07:54
Jordyn
and so like if he is cool with something, then it's fine. And if he's not, then the other guys kind of do whatever he says and it becomes a problem for everybody.
00:08:05
Chris
Right.
00:08:07
Chris
The um circle time where they're talking about like the crimes that was committed by a certain individuals being like, you know, one of them stole a puppy because it was a criminal criminal activity to sell a puppy for a thousand dollars. And like, yes, it is.
00:08:20
Sarah-Daye McDougall
it
00:08:20
Chris
You're right. You should not have gone to jail for that.
00:08:25
Sarah-Daye McDougall
um yeah and i i um that's what i like about camp green like like these are kids um so it's not like they're not going to jail they're going to this place to dig holes and build care quote build character unquote so
00:08:44
Sarah-Daye McDougall
um Should we continue along Stanley's kind of story arc and then kind of backtrack to the other two stories we get?
00:08:44
Chris
e Yeah, nothing else pops up.
00:08:52
Jordyn
Yeah.
00:08:53
Chris
Yeah, let's just go through that.
00:08:54
Sarah-Daye McDougall
yeah So um I guess we can kind of skip ahead to when him and Zero become close and he teaches them how to read, and unless there's something you guys want to talk about that happens before that.
00:09:07
Chris
Dick in his first hole um in the book, there was a lot more like he knew he talks about his hands like bleeding from even though he's using his hat to try and dig and how much harder the dirt is than we really see in the film.
00:09:19
Chris
That was interesting. And, you know, the idea that the first hole is the hardest is ah is said to him in the movie and and the book. But then the book they've got every day. Someone says the second hole is the hardest. The 18th hole is the hardest.
00:09:31
Chris
And I thought that was a fun little ah continuation of the story that didn't get into the film, but was fun.
00:09:38
Jordyn
Yeah, as it feels like the timeline in the movie is adjusted, which makes sense because it's a movie, but it feels like it's a matter of days versus I think in the book, it says it's been like almost two months or something that he's been there.
00:09:48
Sarah-Daye McDougall
months yeah
00:09:49
Jordyn
Yeah. Like he's up to like 40 something holes um by the end, by the time all of the climactic action at the end happens.
00:09:53
Chris
ah
00:09:58
Sarah-Daye McDougall
mm-hmm
00:09:59
Chris
Right.
00:10:01
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yep, so then um him and Zero kind of create this bond through teaching him how to read and digging the holes, and that's how they kind of get close.
00:10:11
Chris
And
Stanley and Zero's Bond
00:10:11
Jordyn
Mm-hmm.
00:10:11
Chris
you can tell Zero knows something about the shoes from like the very early point, but you don't exactly know what.
00:10:16
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Mm-hmm.
00:10:19
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Right, a good little foreshadowing that the film can give us, because we don't really get to see that reaction in the book.
00:10:19
Chris
And he feels bad. Yeah.
00:10:25
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah.
00:10:26
Chris
um as not as ah Not as obviously.
00:10:29
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Um, just like the grabbing the, the ball off the pool table during that altercation. Um, you know, another kind of, yeah, something that we don't get from the book because it's all from Stanley's perspective.
00:10:35
Chris
The subtext.
00:10:40
Sarah-Daye McDougall
The book is so, um, switching it, switching mediums, we get to see, you know, other things that are happening that Stanley's not paying attention to.
00:10:48
Chris
Mm-hmm.
00:10:49
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Um, but yeah, I, um, I just think that
00:10:53
Chris
He steals that water truck um is a pretty big moment.
00:10:55
Sarah-Daye McDougall
oh yeah
00:10:56
Jordyn
Mm-hmm.
00:10:56
Chris
In the book, it's got, I guess it's after zero leaves can talk about, but stealing the water truck was more interesting the in the book somewhat because he had to, you know, he'd never driven before.
00:11:02
Sarah-Daye McDougall
yeah Yes.
00:11:08
Chris
So he had to be taught by Twitch as he's trying to steal his car real quick, how to do it, which was kind of a fun moment to add Twitch's little knowledge of cars to it.
00:11:19
Sarah-Daye McDougall
um Yes, let's backtrack a little bit and talk about like Zero running away and then kind of, i think it like it's been days in the book and Stanley is really torn up about it.
00:11:31
Chris
because he's worried about zero yeah but yeah when zero leaves you know it was ah ain't gonna dig no more holes it's like yeah good idea you're the best at it so make him tougher a little bit but it definitely puts him uh strain and they're like what are you going to do gonna run away and he does
00:11:33
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah.
00:11:39
Jordyn
Mm-hmm.
00:11:43
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Mm-hmm.
00:11:50
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yep. And then Stan Lee decides to leave and go find him. um And he's, you know, going around the desert and he finally finds him underneath the boat. um Sam's boat. Yeah.
00:12:01
Chris
which is a good little connection back to the past and has the peaches.
00:12:03
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Absolutely. um so And the onions and the peaches, sploosh, if you will.
00:12:08
Chris
Yeah, that was gross and kind of awesome that they were still preserved and they're like, oh, that must be fern wrenches can be gross by now.
00:12:08
Jordyn
Yeah.
00:12:15
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah.
00:12:17
Jordyn
Yeah.
00:12:18
Chris
some of them not sealed right in the book.
00:12:18
Jordyn
Yeah. No wonder Zero got sick.
00:12:20
Chris
Yeah.
00:12:20
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Right.
00:12:22
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Ugh.
00:12:23
Chris
A hundred years later,
00:12:24
Sarah-Daye McDougall
And they made those, but like, yeah, the bottles look so bad. Like, they just caked with dirt on the outside.
00:12:31
Chris
But if you're desperate after being out there, especially as a homeless kid who just had to find food wherever you could in the past, it was understandable.
00:12:31
Jordyn
Yeah. Yeah.
00:12:32
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Absolutely.
00:12:36
Sarah-Daye McDougall
and it's peaches, so it's sweet.
00:12:38
Chris
Yeah.
00:12:38
Sarah-Daye McDougall
It's not like it's, you know, Yes.
00:12:41
Jordyn
Yeah. Like they said it tasted good still. So it's like you, I think like at that point, if your options eat something that you know is probably not awesome and not going to merge with your stomach well or die you're going to eat the sploosh and it's just your hope for the best.
00:12:57
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yes.
Breaking the Family Curse
00:13:02
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Okay, and so now the kind of the climax of the film is them realizing that they're by God's thumb and Stanley recognizing that from his grandfather's story, great, great, great grandfather's story.
00:13:16
Sarah-Daye McDougall
And um they hike up the mountain and we'll get to this in a little bit. But of course, this is the breaking of the curse because a like yellow nats is carrying ah zaroni up the mountain and singing the song um and again a little bit more dramatic i think in the movie than the book um with like them all almost falling and then zero falling rolling down and um
00:13:30
Jordyn
Mm-hmm.
00:13:31
Chris
Yep.
00:13:40
Chris
There was a little bit of it similar stuff. So it was all it all flowed and made sense in some ways.
00:13:45
Sarah-Daye McDougall
exactly
00:13:45
Chris
um I like the idea that the lake, when it was full, would have been that big ledge they had to climb up would have been where the ah edge of the lake on that site would have been. So there was no cliff at the time.
00:13:56
Chris
was just Sam's ah onion field right there on the edge of the water. Yeah.
00:14:01
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Right.
00:14:02
Chris
knowing that they had to get all the way up this wall, this rock climbing wall to get that to get to that and made it a little more of a effort on their part in this case. and was interesting to think about.
00:14:14
Jordyn
Yeah, the whole scene is definitely very dramatic. You have like the Eartha Kitt talking and repeating the prophecy over the background.
00:14:19
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yes.
00:14:22
Jordyn
it's It's so mystical, even though like it's just a couple of kids climbing up the mountain, but it's like, no, this is really intense mysticism and, you know, spookiness almost climbing up the mountain and fulfilling the prophecy.
00:14:30
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah.
00:14:35
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yes, and I wanted to comment on the onions themselves um and just, like, how massive they were. um That whole kind of, like, set um was just really well done.
00:14:48
Sarah-Daye McDougall
even um And, like, you can tell when they cut to, like, real rock climbers and then cut back to the actors themselves.
00:14:55
Chris
right
00:14:56
Sarah-Daye McDougall
um But, yeah, the whole set was just really cool, climbing up the mountain and then then finding this –
00:14:56
Jordyn
yeah
00:15:00
Sarah-Daye McDougall
um magical onion field. um And then I just want to know what those onions tasted like to live on those for days.
00:15:11
Chris
apparently they were sweet and i mean they apparently save you from all sorts of stuff they can they heal it had all sorts of healing properties according to sam
00:15:15
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah, magic onions.
00:15:20
Jordyn
Yeah, I thought it was really cute when Stanley tells Zero, he's like, It's an ice cream sundae. Like, just eat it. Like, we literally starving to death right now.
00:15:28
Chris
yeah
00:15:30
Jordyn
It's an ice cream sundae. Just keep them coming.
00:15:32
Chris
The way they all the way up the mountain are talking about the ice cream sundae they're going to get at the end and then he gives it to them.
00:15:32
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Mm-hmm.
00:15:36
Jordyn
Yeah. Yeah.
00:15:38
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yes.
00:15:38
Jordyn
And it it felt like, yeah yeah, of course, a couple of teenage boys, like, yeah, they just want an ice cream sundae. And they've been at trapped at this camp with their disgusting camp food, like prison camp food for however long at this point.
00:15:49
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Mm-hmm.
00:15:51
Jordyn
And like, yeah, I just want an ice cream sundae. And when you're this close to starving to death, onions are an ice cream sundae.
00:15:53
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Mm-hmm.
00:15:57
Jordyn
So just enjoy it.
00:15:57
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Exactly. Yes.
00:15:59
Chris
There was also the callback in the lunchroom where um the ah Mr.
00:15:59
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Um,
00:16:04
Chris
Sir is fighting over, I didn't order any onions, I don't want the onions, or whatever. It was the callback to the future of, these onions will save your life here.
00:16:13
Jordyn
Oh, yeah.
00:16:15
Sarah-Daye McDougall
I want to switch timelines now that we just talked about Stanley and um Zero going up the mountain and breaking the curse. um The curse itself started many, many years ago um with Madame Zeroni and um the The guy that's in love with this girl and um the other guy wants to marry her and he's got a pig and he has nothing. So she tells him to carry the pig up the hill, um you know, every day and drink from the lake.
00:16:51
Sarah-Daye McDougall
ah and sing the song or drink from the stream sing the song and then when that's all said and done you have to carry me up the mountain and sing ah like let me drink from the stream um and again like all these flashbacks are happening throughout the film um so that we get the full story at the end of the film um but talk to me a little bit about what you guys thought of seeing these flashbacks kind of build throughout the film
00:17:22
Chris
That original story was um had a little more of the depth in the book of like, oh, he's this woman's a person who he just enjoys talking to and hanging out with because she's is one of his mentors here. So you get a little more of the understanding why he's going to talk Madame Zeroni.
00:17:40
Chris
um i feel like it definitely told the story pretty well there and gave you a little snippets that led us to oh understanding in the end so i appreciated it i thought the airhead girl was very much an airhead that you're like oh yeah i can see why you'd just leave once you notice that but why did you not ever have a conversation with her before i wonder but
00:17:56
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Mm-hmm.
00:18:00
Jordyn
Yeah, I liked it. I liked the contrast in the two love stories of like the grand, great, great, great pig stealing grandfather, Elia Yelnats, like having to work so hard to win this girl's affection just for her to be like, oh, I don't know, maybe like whatever, like just
00:18:17
Chris
I'll pick a number. Mm-hmm.
00:18:19
Jordyn
being an airhead versus Sam and Kate and like both of them just like being so like overly generous to each other with their time and their energy and their talents and like that like mutual respect that Kate and Sam had for each other versus Elia doing all of this work carrying this pick up the mountain making this deal with Madame Zeroni just for this girl to be like
00:18:28
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Right.
00:18:45
Jordyn
you're not that special, like doesn't appreciate the effort that he went through and doesn't recognize like how he cares for her that he's willing to do all of this stuff.
00:18:49
Sarah-Daye McDougall
right
00:18:53
Jordyn
So I thought that contrast in love stories was was fascinating. And especially again for an audience of younger readers, like showing a younger audience this is what real love looks like versus this is what like fake temporary, like infatuation
Elia Yelnats and Moral Lessons
00:19:09
Jordyn
looks like. And she kind of teaching a young kid, like how to tell the difference between the two and what to look, what are the green flags and what are the red flags and what to look for.
00:19:20
Sarah-Daye McDougall
hu um going back to her not being able to make the decision it is so flabbergasting because Like, why would you not pick Ilya over that guy?
00:19:36
Sarah-Daye McDougall
And they did a really good job making him look so disgusting. Like, he's covered in, like, dirt, and I think he, like, wipes his hands on his shirt, and it's just like, ugh, you're so gross.
00:19:46
Jordyn
He's also like a 50 plus year old man and she's like 20.
00:19:46
Sarah-Daye McDougall
how Why would you not?
00:19:49
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Right. Yeah. Yeah.
00:19:52
Chris
I think I was even younger, but yeah.
00:19:52
Jordyn
There's that part too.
00:19:54
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Which is probably not an issue back in those times. But ah again, when you're presented with that guy and that age versus Elia, who is similar age to her, it's just kind of like, why are you having such a hard time deciding?
00:19:57
Jordyn
no
00:20:07
Jordyn
Yeah, i would I would have understood it if it was her father making the decision and he like – because again, 100 plus years ago – because I think they're Latvia –
00:20:13
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Mm-hmm.
00:20:19
Jordyn
er
00:20:20
Chris
Somewhere not...
00:20:21
Jordyn
Some some like Eastern European country, they say. 100 years ago in Eastern Europe, like yeah, like the father would have just been like, yeah, eeny, meeny, miny, moe. Pick whoever I want.
00:20:34
Jordyn
But he gives her the option and she gets to choose.
00:20:36
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Uh-huh. Yeah.
00:20:37
Jordyn
And she's now presented with like this young, handsome man who is my age and did all of this work to raise this pig to win my father's approval.
00:20:47
Sarah-Daye McDougall
yeah
00:20:48
Jordyn
Or this greasy 50-something-year-old man. and you're struggling with that choice, like,
00:20:55
Sarah-Daye McDougall
And I wonder if she knew what Elia went through to to get that pig.
00:20:56
Chris
She's got daddy issues. That's fair.
00:21:00
Sarah-Daye McDougall
um But um you made a good point that I didn't think about is that she's never probably been able to make a decision herself. So maybe that's why she was just like, well, I get to decide. I don't know what to do with this like ability that I've never had before.
00:21:15
Chris
there
00:21:16
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Again, I don't know why it would be that hard to make that decision. But um she might have just been so shocked that she just flundered there.
00:21:25
Jordyn
Yeah.
00:21:25
Chris
So it could have been a whole different story here with like ah Romeo and Juliet, the background talking back and forth about, you know, I'm doing all this for you.
00:21:26
Jordyn
Well, and I want to
00:21:32
Chris
And you could have had that poll more so, but it didn't go that way. It didn't go into the depth of their relationship just as she's so beautiful. I want to marry her.
00:21:41
Jordyn
Yeah, I want to shout out Elia too for like having the self-respect to walk away and like if she can, if all things being equal, me versus him and you can't decide like immediately that I'm the choice, I'm out of here.
00:21:41
Chris
That was it.
00:21:48
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yes.
00:21:54
Chris
I'm out of here.
00:21:56
Jordyn
And like it, you know, for so a lot of people, like having that like self-esteem be high enough to recognize that and be like, this is not for me.
00:21:57
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah.
00:22:07
Jordyn
I'm going to get out of here. Like it it can be challenging for people. And so like shout out to the dirty, rotten pig stealing grandfather for having enough self-worth to recognize that this is not a good situation for him and get out of there.
00:22:15
Sarah-Daye McDougall
the
00:22:20
Chris
And I think that generationally passes down to a little bit.
00:22:20
Sarah-Daye McDougall
And the thing is...
00:22:22
Chris
You see each of them working on the shoe project and each them having that resolve to do what they're go to do.
00:22:29
Jordyn
Yes, very much.
00:22:31
Sarah-Daye McDougall
going back to her decision um in the film when he grabs her, like he wins and he grabs her, the other guy, um she does look disgusted. um Like, and it's just like, what, if why are you disgusted now?
00:22:42
Jordyn
Yeah.
00:22:46
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Like you could have, you could have chosen the other guy.
00:22:49
Jordyn
Yeah.
00:22:49
Sarah-Daye McDougall
so it just doesn't make sense. um And like, I don't think they go into all of that in the book. So I think, I think that might be the one flaw the movie might have over the book.
00:22:59
Jordyn
One thing the book did do, did ah one extra step of the book that didn't come across in the movie, I don't think, was he was supposed to carry the pig up the mountain one more day. And he chose not to.
00:23:10
Chris
Right.
00:23:12
Jordyn
So that way he could take a bath to be presentable for her.
00:23:15
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Oh.
00:23:15
Jordyn
And that's why if he had taken the pig up one more time, his pig would have outweighed the other guy's pig and he would have been the clear winner.
00:23:20
Chris
Would have been away the other.
00:23:24
Jordyn
And so like he didn't take that extra step. He shorted himself.
00:23:27
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Mm-hmm.
00:23:28
Jordyn
He didn't make that last effort. And that's where he got into that situation. And so, again, like that lesson for a young audience, like follow through all the way to the end.
00:23:38
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Mm-hmm.
00:23:38
Jordyn
don't like half-ass it and do half the work. Like if you want, if you want something, you got to work for it and you have to take all of the steps together. You can't cut corners and cheat your way through things or you'll be cursed forever and your grandchildren will be cursed.
00:23:50
Chris
or you'll be cursed forever.
00:23:54
Sarah-Daye McDougall
For always and eternity.
00:23:56
Jordyn
Yeah.
00:23:59
Chris
The fact that Eartha Kid plays ah on the character in the Emperor's Negru of the, um ah what's her name?
00:24:06
Sarah-Daye McDougall
i er Irma?
00:24:06
Chris
ah ah
00:24:07
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Irma? Ir
00:24:08
Jordyn
Yes. Okay.
00:24:08
Sarah-Daye McDougall
yeah
00:24:08
Chris
Yzma. i keep I looked at that and not i'm now I'm never gonna be able to hear that again, in her voice in there again without hearing Yzma.
00:24:15
Sarah-Daye McDougall
ah
00:24:17
Chris
Yeah, weird.
00:24:19
Sarah-Daye McDougall
also a good a good Also a good film. Also very quotable.
00:24:24
Chris
Oh, yeah.
00:24:25
Jordyn
yes
00:24:27
Sarah-Daye McDougall
um Okay, so any other comments on this storyline?
Kissin' Kate Barlow's Transformation
00:24:33
Chris
It definitely wrapped up well. I think they paid that one off well and got us all the way in and gave the hints to the future a little bit.
00:24:39
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah.
00:24:40
Jordyn
Mm-hmm.
00:24:40
Sarah-Daye McDougall
So then let's move on to Kate and Sam. And then we can kind of tie all the storylines together. kiss kiss it okay So Kissing Kate was not always Kissing Kate. She was a school teacher in a small town.
00:24:55
Sarah-Daye McDougall
And Sam sold onions and started fixing up the schoolhouse. And as he was fixing up the schoolhouse, um they sort of fell in love.
00:25:07
Sarah-Daye McDougall
um However, um their love was forbidden in that time. And um unfortunately, their kiss was witnessed um and the townspeople...
00:25:22
Sarah-Daye McDougall
ah kill Sam and his poor little donkey and um that starts kissing Kate and the reason why she becomes kissing Kate is because ah the sheriff um vo so that he Sam is murdered because he kissed her and the sheriff asks for a kiss and she goes back the next day gives him the kiss and shoots him so that becomes her shtick
00:25:34
Chris
Mm-hmm.
00:25:34
Jordyn
Mm-hmm.
00:25:46
Chris
And I think a big part of the whole um ah thing happened in the first place in that way was that the rich son of the owner of the land um got rejected from her first.
00:25:55
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Mm-hmm.
00:25:57
Chris
So it may not have been an issue if she hadn't rejected him. But because that element happened, the rich kid wanted what he wanted and never said no to before.
00:26:05
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Mm-hmm.
00:26:06
Chris
And so he caused all this issue because he had control.
00:26:07
Jordyn
Yeah. is
00:26:10
Jordyn
It's pretty established in the book that Sam is well-known and well-liked by everybody in the town. Everybody loves buying his onions and he like makes little concoctions like, this will cure your baldness.
00:26:18
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Mm-hmm.
00:26:21
Jordyn
This will cure your stomachache. And it's like everybody knows who he is. Everybody likes him. like He's not like some outcast. Yeah. Other than the fact that he's black and everybody else is white, but like other like, which is a big deal. Again, we're talking about a hundred years ago in Texas.
00:26:37
Jordyn
So it is a big deal. But other than that big thing, like he's, everybody's cool with him.
00:26:43
Sarah-Daye McDougall
um
00:26:43
Jordyn
Everybody's fine having him around. He's not like rejected by his little society.
00:26:47
Chris
People go to him and the doctor for medical advice the book.
00:26:48
Jordyn
Um,
00:26:50
Jordyn
Yes, yes. and And even this this rich guy, Walker, I think, Trout Walker, which what a name.
00:26:58
Chris
Hmm.
00:26:59
Jordyn
he Even he like doesn't really bother Sam that much until Sam gets involved with Kate and he gets jealous and upset. And then his solution to get Kate to like him is to burn down her schoolhouse and kill Sam.
00:27:15
Jordyn
Which, i don't know about you guys, I think that's a great plan to get somebody to like you is to destroy their place of work and harm somebody that they actually do like.
00:27:23
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Well, going back to just like spoiled wit rich kid is that it's a temper tantrum.
00:27:23
Chris
It's all about passion.
00:27:24
Jordyn
Like, oh my goodness.
00:27:29
Sarah-Daye McDougall
He's having his little temper tantrums.
00:27:29
Jordyn
Totally.
00:27:30
Sarah-Daye McDougall
He's not even he's not thinking this will get me to like her. He's just acting out in jealous like in a jealous rage.
00:27:35
Jordyn
Totally.
00:27:35
Chris
If I can't have her, nobody can. Yeah.
00:27:39
Jordyn
Totally.
00:27:39
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Exactly. hello And the fact that he burns down the schoolhouse, like I'm sure everybody knows Sam's the one that made it the way it is. You know, he fixed it up.
00:27:48
Jordyn
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:27:48
Chris
Fixed it up. I thought the moment when ah after all the fixing up the school was done and she's sitting there crying, you're like, wait, the roof's leaking again um for a moment. And then it ends up just being her tears. I thought that was a good visual ah leading into him coming in and fixing that too.
00:28:06
Jordyn
Yeah, I just, I think I mentioned it before. i don't remember it was last week or earlier in this episode, but I love Sam and his, like, I can fix that because that's that's just all I ever want is, like, I have a problem.
00:28:16
Chris
I can fix that.
00:28:20
Jordyn
I can fix that. And just, like, even if you can't, like hit her crying and her being upset like heat there's nothing for him to do but he cares and he's there and he's supporting her like that's enough a lot of the time and nobody else around her really cares about her as a person they objectify her and like she's just like you know to quote a lot Princess Jasmine and lot she's like some prize to be won and nobody really cares about who she is and what her interests are and what she cares about
Treasure Discovery and Tensions
00:28:55
Jordyn
except for Sam and that like that is real love.
00:28:56
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
00:28:59
Jordyn
That is what real love looks like.
00:29:03
Chris
That's fair.
00:29:05
Sarah-Daye McDougall
yeah
00:29:06
Sarah-Daye McDougall
um So after she becomes kissing Kate Barlow, um Stanley's great, great, great, whatever grandfather um actually has a run in with her.
00:29:19
Sarah-Daye McDougall
So that is kind of how all of the storylines are coming together because, of course, um the Ilya storyline is the beginning of the curse and the kissing Kate Barlow, um all of his fortune is stolen.
00:29:34
Sarah-Daye McDougall
um by Kiss and Kate. um And then that's how we get the God's Thumb, which then saves Stanley and Zero um in our current timeline.
00:29:45
Sarah-Daye McDougall
And then of course they... Okay, so now we go back to the camp, right? Because they go back to the hole to finish digging because and we didn't talk about it earlier, but the artifact that was found and he gave it to X-Ray. Okay.
00:30:00
Sarah-Daye McDougall
x-ray saved it for the next day and they were digging holes in a different location so stanley and zero go back to their original location where he found it and i liked in the film that they had that boulder um and they they zoomed in on it when like that day he found it um exactly and it it keyed us in like we know
00:30:19
Chris
foreshadowing Almost a bigger character than some of the others we've talked about.
00:30:21
Jordyn
Mm-hmm.
00:30:23
Sarah-Daye McDougall
um That's how he knew where the hole was. um But they find the treasure box. And then this is kind of where the climax happens because they get caught. But the lawyer has come to get Stanley and she shows up as they're in the hole. But, oh, we've never mentioned the yellow spotted lizards before.
00:30:44
Sarah-Daye McDougall
um I know. and We should have talked about them in the last episode because they look a little different than they described in the book. In the movie, they basically just have the yellow spots.
00:30:55
Sarah-Daye McDougall
um But in the book, they also have red eyes and like a white tongue and black teeth or something.
00:31:03
Chris
And the spots are not supposed to be visible from afar.
00:31:04
Jordyn
Yeah, a lot of...
00:31:06
Chris
You only see them if you're close enough to be killed, basically.
00:31:08
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Close enough to get bit. Yeah.
00:31:10
Jordyn
Yeah.
00:31:11
Sarah-Daye McDougall
um But yeah, so ah the hole is filled with these lizards. ah So nobody wants to go in there. um And that's where we find out that Zero read, like he asked him if his last name is his first name spelled backwards.
00:31:27
Sarah-Daye McDougall
um And then the... the Everything comes to light. ah The lawyer takes Stanley home. they end up taking Zero home because they can't find his records.
00:31:38
Sarah-Daye McDougall
um And then they open it up and find out they're rich.
00:31:43
Chris
Yeah, the fact that the lizards don't bite you if you're ah if you've been drinking the onion juice is one of the things they've alluded to in one of the earlier timelines, too.
00:31:51
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Mm-hmm.
00:31:52
Chris
Sam's talking about lizards don't like my lizard my my onion juice, and then they were eating his onions. That's why they were safe in the hole, even though nobody else could survive it.
00:31:58
Jordyn
Mm-hmm.
00:32:01
Chris
Kate kills herself with one when she um is in her climax point where she's just buried the treasure and now Trout and his new wife or his wife that married him for the money is broke and coming back trying to get rich.
00:32:04
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yep.
00:32:16
Chris
That's where we get the warden's greatg great grandfather who she's stuck with the that story of hate the rest of their story.
00:32:22
Sarah-Daye McDougall
ah
00:32:25
Jordyn
Yeah, and I don't think we mentioned it, but there's like two curses in this story. There's the curse of Elia and Madame Zeroni. And then I feel like not that it's like magical, but like Kate kind of puts a curse on Green Lake.
00:32:40
Jordyn
When Sam dies, it never rains again.
00:32:41
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Oh, yes.
00:32:43
Jordyn
And that's why the lake has dried up. And then as soon as her last treasure is found and they like kind of solve the mystery of what happened to Kate. it starts raining in the camp.
00:32:54
Jordyn
Like all of the loose ends get tied up and all of every, it's a nice happy ending for everybody.
00:32:56
Sarah-Daye McDougall
her
00:33:00
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yes.
00:33:01
Chris
It would have almost been nice, though, if there had been something Zeroni in that middle timeline, too, if like Sam was related to Zero somehow.
00:33:09
Sarah-Daye McDougall
oh we could just headcanon that.
00:33:10
Chris
That almost would have connected them all more.
00:33:12
Jordyn
Yeah.
00:33:12
Chris
but like it would have been even better if like Kate and him had had a child and like that survived everything, and that was Zero's grandmother or great-grandmother, because it really would have tied things closer and closer together.
00:33:25
Jordyn
Yeah, because it's said in, I think in both, that Madame Zeroni has a son in in America.
00:33:29
Chris
that went to America, yeah.
00:33:30
Sarah-Daye McDougall
America.
00:33:31
Jordyn
and so that's where she tells Elia, like, you know, go to, a after you carry me up the mountain, go to America, meet my son, and he'll help you, like, get started over there. and
00:33:41
Sarah-Daye McDougall
yeah
00:33:41
Jordyn
And he just skips the mountain step and goes straight to America. Yeah.
00:33:45
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yep. and Unfortunately for him and all of his descendants.
00:33:48
Jordyn
Yeah.
00:33:49
Chris
But that is a good point about the second curse.
Resolution of Family Curses
00:33:50
Chris
Yeah, I like that idea.
00:33:51
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah, yeah.
00:33:52
Jordyn
Yeah.
00:33:52
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Definitely.
00:33:53
Chris
Because it hadn't rained until the moment they all ah that they find the treasure and they all get there, get what's coming to them.
00:33:53
Sarah-Daye McDougall
It's one we didn't talk about.
00:33:59
Jordyn
I thought that was a nice change too in the movie. you It starts raining like and worse so we like the audience and Stanley are still at camp. So Stanley and Zero get to like be with the boys and like be like you know getting this like healing downpour upon the them and the land and like everything's going to be okay.
00:34:08
Chris
Hmm.
00:34:18
Jordyn
Versus in the book, it was more of like an epilogue moment like after Stanley and Zero leave with the lawyer.
00:34:21
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Mm-hmm.
00:34:24
Jordyn
you know the Camp Green gets its first rain in 100 years like after the fact. I thought that was a nice change that They get to experience that with the other boys that they've grown close with and they all get to have that moment of like feeling, yeah, the redemption and like we're free like all at the same time.
00:34:36
Chris
Redemption a little bit, yeah.
00:34:41
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Mm-hmm. Yeah, it was a good visual a ah good visualization of the curse breaking.
00:34:49
Sarah-Daye McDougall
um Now you mentioned the epilogue of the book um and we can get into that. um So it all kind of accumulates in this epilogue and in the book he says, um you know, I'm not going to go into details. I'm going to give you this one scene and then you could fill in the holes from there.
00:35:09
Chris
Ha ha.
00:35:09
Chris
aha
00:35:09
Sarah-Daye McDougall
um
00:35:10
Jordyn
Thank you.
00:35:10
Sarah-Daye McDougall
But basically it is the Zeronis and the Yellow Nats and the baseball player and his wife. And it's a new commercial. They have made, they have figured out the solution to the stinky feet.
00:35:22
Sarah-Daye McDougall
um And it was a combination of onion and peaches. ha. ha And um they have named it sploosh after um zero's nickname for the peaches.
00:35:34
Sarah-Daye McDougall
um and it's kind of just like the happy ever after. And um I thought that that was a really fun representation of um the epilogue that the movie did.
00:35:44
Sarah-Daye McDougall
I liked how it but it did it really well.
00:35:48
Jordyn
Yeah. but I really like the movie too. Like it's showing the curse being broken in all these different ways all at the same time.
00:35:53
Chris
In real time, yeah.
00:35:55
Jordyn
Like dad figures out the combination of onions and peaches for pollution and him and mom gets to do their little, I don't smell anything dance.
00:35:58
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yes.
00:36:00
Chris
By accident, too.
00:36:03
Jordyn
And that was really cute. And then at the same time, like they find the treasure. now they're all rich. And then like, Because like breaking the curse happens when they're climbing up God's thumb. And that's like a day or two before like the boys are in the hole with the treasure chest.
00:36:19
Jordyn
So in that time, so the curse is broken.
00:36:19
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Right.
00:36:21
Jordyn
We discover sploosh. We have, but we can get a patent lawyer. The lawyer goes to help Stanley.
00:36:27
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yes.
00:36:27
Jordyn
And so then everything is all gets tied up at that point in the background while the boys are hiking back across the desert.
00:36:35
Chris
And I love that the peaches falling into the um container right at that moment was entirely an accident. It was a dinner he was trying sit down while he was um working on his thing.
00:36:44
Sarah-Daye McDougall
hu
00:36:44
Jordyn
Yeah.
00:36:45
Chris
And it falls in and wait, what just happened? It worked. It worked.
00:36:48
Jordyn
Yeah. Yeah. The luck the broke the curse and the luck changed right away.
00:36:53
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Exactly.
00:36:53
Chris
There is one character in the book that, or from the book that isn't in the movie that I noticed, I forgot about. um In the beginning, he was getting bullied by ah someone at school, and that's who had soaked his notebooks in the toilet beforehand, and that's actually what gets him off from the charges, because at the time, people could witness were witnesses to him having been digging his stuff out of the toilet, not anywhere near where the the the homeless camp was.
00:37:13
Sarah-Daye McDougall
right
00:37:19
Chris
So that character, the bully that he was dealing with, was an extra element that we didn't get into in this but and didn't have in the movie.
00:37:27
Sarah-Daye McDougall
true
00:37:27
Jordyn
Yeah.
00:37:28
Chris
But it worked both ways, I think.
00:37:30
Jordyn
Yeah.
00:37:31
Sarah-Daye McDougall
yeah again I think that the movie is like a really great adaptation um they didn't really leave much out and what they did leave out it didn't impact the story right um so yeah I mean this is definitely yeah
00:37:41
Chris
Wasn't necessary necessarily.
00:37:45
Chris
I think it shows what an author can do in there. The story, ah the story what do they call it? The um or screenwriter, that's it.
00:37:51
Jordyn
Screenwriter.
00:37:52
Chris
ah An author is going to know best what things are important to their story, whereas a lot of times rewriting them doesn't work well.
00:37:53
Jordyn
Yeah.
00:37:56
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Exactly.
00:38:00
Jordyn
A
Film Adaptation Success
00:38:00
Jordyn
lesson that every single out adapter should learn and use.
00:38:00
Sarah-Daye McDougall
and
00:38:04
Chris
Think about it now.
00:38:05
Jordyn
Like, please just let the authors be the screenwriters.
00:38:07
Chris
Or work closely with them at least, yeah.
00:38:08
Sarah-Daye McDougall
For sure. Yeah, because not every author that writes a book can write a screenplay, but as long as they're in the writing room with them and like they're working closely together and the author has an input on what can be cut or what can be added, like they are the ones that know their characters the best.
00:38:10
Jordyn
Yeah.
00:38:14
Jordyn
Yeah.
00:38:25
Chris
Definitely.
00:38:25
Jordyn
Yeah. And you can always tell to like, not to bring up Percy Jackson, but like the movies versus the show, like Rick has said, like, I was much more involved in the show than I was in the movie. And you can tell the difference. And so like for this one, you can tell the difference that Louisa, Sakaar, Sachar, whatever, was involved with this because it is very much by the book. It's exactly how he wanted it. And he's like, he talks about it He's really proud of it.
00:38:52
Jordyn
Versus other adaptations that aren't as, you know, attached to the book. Like, they're like, yeah, like, I wasn't really involved. Like, that's kind of their version of this story versus, like, an adaptation of the story.
00:39:04
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yes. And I feel like we're going to talk about this a lot next week, about it being their version of um the story when we discuss Ready Player One. um But this one... So for Ready Player One, I think...
00:39:20
Sarah-Daye McDougall
um That would have benefited from being a TV show. And I feel that way a lot about books being turned into live action. um
Adaptation Challenges and Future Speculations
00:39:29
Sarah-Daye McDougall
I always think a show is going to give you more time.
00:39:30
Chris
Agreed.
00:39:31
Sarah-Daye McDougall
But this is one example that a movie worked really well. um Again, we talked about last week um that... It was only four and a half hours of audio book.
00:39:42
Chris
And that helped a lot, yeah.
00:39:42
Sarah-Daye McDougall
um Yeah. So there's like, and and we talked about the show that's coming up um and we're like, i don't I don't know how this could be a show. So again, this is one example of um a movie being the right choice. And I don't say that often.
00:39:59
Chris
Yeah.
00:40:01
Jordyn
Yeah, I think just being able to recognize what medium each story needs is like a skill.
00:40:05
Sarah-Daye McDougall
hmm.
00:40:08
Jordyn
And apparently like not a lot of people have that skill right now because there's a lot a lot of different um but adaptations that were like, this should have been a movie.
00:40:11
Sarah-Daye McDougall
yeah
00:40:16
Jordyn
This should have been a book. Like it should have been switched. And yeah, this is like a perfect, this story, it's a it's a tight story. It's pretty short. It's easy to understand.
00:40:27
Jordyn
And so it made it perfect to be a film and the kids this nice little bow and we're done and we don't need to touch it. So yeah, like I know I said it last week, but I'm really interested to see, to stretch it out into however many episodes. I think right now it's very popular to do like six episodes.
00:40:43
Jordyn
What are you going to put in that other four hours of content, like where are you going to pull that from? What is it going to be consist of other than like literally digging the holes?
00:40:53
Chris
or obviously adding more ah content that wasn't there, a love story, or, you know, like there's ways to add to it, but it was stuff that was unnecessary for what they were trying to tell in the story.
00:40:53
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Right.
00:41:04
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah.
00:41:05
Jordyn
Yeah, I would be probably more interested if it was like seeing what the epilogue girls camp is like, as opposed to a retelling of this, like Stanley Yelnats, like that family story retold with girls instead of boys.
00:41:22
Chris
Yeah, i I love the idea of a Camp Green Lake ah ah girls camp as the next story.
00:41:22
Jordyn
But it's just me.
00:41:27
Chris
That would be fun. But retelling this one with another with a gender swap just doesn't really appeal to me that much.
00:41:35
Jordyn
Thank you.
00:41:36
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Even if it was another movie gender swap, like I think that could be fun. um But like just what, again, what are we going to do with the four extra hours? I can see more, like I can see the Kate and Sam storyline being fleshed out a little bit and I can see Elia being fleshed out a little bit.
00:41:45
Chris
Mm-hmm.
00:41:52
Sarah-Daye McDougall
But again, that gets us maybe like, you know, another hour. it's just a lot. I just don't know what they're going to do with this.
00:41:58
Chris
There's just gaps. Yeah, they'll have to fill in.
00:42:01
Jordyn
Yeah.
00:42:01
Sarah-Daye McDougall
hmm.
00:42:02
Jordyn
Unless it's going to be like they're saying it's an it's a retelling of this story, unless they mean that very loosely. Like what is the definition of retelling?
00:42:11
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Right.
00:42:11
Jordyn
Is it actually like holes, but we're gender swapping all the characters and it's the exact same story? Or is it more of like it's inspired by holes? And so we're going to have the same kind of concept of like,
00:42:22
Jordyn
a girl who's like wrongfully accused of a crime and she goes to the camp and there's like all these mysteries to solve, but it's not exactly the same story, then maybe that could work because you have like a new story to tell and new like mysteries to solve.
00:42:30
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Mm-hmm.
00:42:37
Jordyn
And like that newness could create opportunity to like expand what we're talking about.
00:42:43
Sarah-Daye McDougall
yeah
00:42:43
Jordyn
But if it's literally just the same story, it's um nervous about what else they're going to possibly put in there.
00:42:51
Chris
And that's a big problem with all the sequelizations right now or anything like that.
00:42:51
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah.
00:42:54
Chris
Is there, you know, what do you tell, are they telling the same story again in a different way in order to cash grab or is it actually a earned story in this case?
00:43:02
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Mm-hmm. Well, and so like for like Harry Potter, I'm excited because they did films first.
00:43:03
Jordyn
Yeah.
00:43:07
Sarah-Daye McDougall
And I think like the first couple were fine. But as we got into the later books, again, a series can just do the book more justice. There's just more time.
00:43:18
Sarah-Daye McDougall
um
00:43:18
Jordyn
Totally. Yeah.
00:43:19
Chris
True.
00:43:19
Sarah-Daye McDougall
But. um Oh, sorry, i lost my train of thought.
00:43:25
Chris
You have to earn it. There has to be something there to that's worth ah doing another thing for.
00:43:27
Jordyn
yeah
00:43:29
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah, so and I just don't – like, I don't – I mean, this – so, like, um yes, the Harry Potter, I can see why they're redoing that so that there's more story to tell from the books that the movies didn't get to tell. But with Holes, there wasn't anything left on the table. Like, the movie did a really great job. So I just don't – I just don't see what the remake is going to do different.
00:43:53
Jordyn
Yeah.
00:43:53
Chris
Well, guess we'll see soon in the next, what, year or so they were doing it?
00:43:56
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Probably, Yeah.
00:43:57
Chris
guess we'll see.
00:43:58
Jordyn
If it survives, Disney has been like canceling and reworking and putting a lot of stuff on the shelf, especially TV stuff.
00:44:00
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah.
00:44:02
Chris
Especially TV stuff, yeah.
00:44:04
Jordyn
They've been putting a lot on the shelf recently. So who knows? But if they get it, we'll cover it.
00:44:09
Chris
Mm-hmm.
00:44:10
Jordyn
You'll see it here first.
00:44:10
Chris
Check it out. Mm-hmm.
00:44:11
Jordyn
But...
00:44:14
Chris
We'll keep an eye on the news.
00:44:17
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah, I was trying to see if the internet movie database had anything on the show yet, but I'm not. There's a TV series and it says there's two people cast, but It doesn't have a is have anything really. So yeah, well, I guess time will tell. We'll have to keep an eye on the Holes TV show.
00:44:38
Chris
Sounds good. and
00:44:40
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Okay, well, is there anything else you guys want to talk about before we hop off?
00:44:45
Chris
I think we hit the major points. I think we got what we wanted to get through. It's a really fun story yeah aimed at younger audience and very faithfully adapted.
00:44:49
Jordyn
like so
00:44:50
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yes. Yes, Agreed.
00:44:57
Jordyn
Yeah, I would say probably one of, if not the most faithful adaptation that I've personally seen.
00:45:02
Sarah-Daye McDougall
well
00:45:04
Jordyn
So.
00:45:05
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yep, agreed. Definitely one of the best adapted books.
00:45:08
Chris
Maybe we should start keeping a tracker of our favorite or our the most accurate adaptations, our favorite adaptations and have some sort of like ranking system on our website or something.
00:45:11
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yes.
00:45:17
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yeah, we should definitely do that.
00:45:17
Jordyn
Yeah, that would be cool.
00:45:18
Sarah-Daye McDougall
It's fine. Yeah. um
00:45:20
Chris
All right.
00:45:21
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Yes.
00:45:21
Jordyn
This is S tier for sure.
00:45:22
Sarah-Daye McDougall
Okay. yeah All right. Well, everybody, thank you for listening in. um And again, next ah week, we will be covering Ready Player One. um And we can't wait to read and watch that with you.
00:45:36
Sarah-Daye McDougall
So we will see you next time.
00:45:38
Chris
Bye guys. so