Transcript
Sarah-Daye McDougall: Welcome back, listeners. I'm excited to talk about practical magic tonight. I have Chris Hitlett joining me again. Welcome back, Chris.
Chris: Hello, thank you for having me again.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: Absolutely. So we are covering Practical Magic, which has, the film at least, has become a cult classic, especially among fans of the witchy, feminine-centered stories.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: While the film received mixed reviews on release, it found New Life as a beloved fall favorite. Its blend of sisterhood, grief, and magic inspired modern witch aesthetics and continues to influence pop culture,
Sarah-Daye McDougall: like social media's witchcore trends. The story celebrates womanhood, resilience, and the bond between sisters in a world that often fears feminine power.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: um The book was written in 1995 by Alice Hoffman. The audio book was narrated by Christina Moore. There is an abridged version, which is narrated by somebody else, ah but why would you listen to the abridged version?
Sarah-Daye McDougall: The film was directed by Griffin Doon and it was adapted by robb Robin Swycord, Akiva Goldsman, and Adam Brooks in 1998.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: ninety eight So, Chris, what is your history um with Practical Magic?
Chris: yeah
Chris: ah So I didn't watch it when it first came out at all. I didn't even know it existed. I have ah been aware of it since I got married about, or even before that a little bit when I was dating my wife for about ah what, 15 years now, I think it is. And she is always trying to get me to watch it and be interested in it with her and do it, spend the holidays, you know, watching these old cult classics. And I never got into it with her. And so,
Chris: When I said I was going to do this one with you, she's like, oh my gosh, does that mean we get to watch Practical Magic? And I said, well, let me read the book first.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: it finally
Chris: But then we finally did, and she was super excited because it's been one of her favorites for a long, long time. So it was fun to get to watch it with her.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: And I'm interested to talk to you about this because you read the book first, but I, like your wife, grew up watching Practical Magic and did not read the book until getting ready for this episode.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: So it'll be interesting to see your thoughts on Book to Film ah because I definitely have lots of thoughts on the
Chris: Yeah.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: differences, um and it was not what I was expecting at all. um So I'm excited to get into it.
Chris: Yeah, they did a lot.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: um So ah as I mentioned at the top, some of the key themes are sisterhood and family bonds, love and loss, female empowerment, the legacy of the past, and and magic versus normalcy.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: um And I think both book and film really touched on those key themes. But what was really interesting to me, the book, magic was more of a background character, whereas in the movie, the magic plays a much bigger part. Yeah.
Chris: Yeah, they had to make magic have more of that spectacle, I feel like, in the movie. And it had to be that like almost wiggle your nose and something happens, you know, a little bit of the Sabrina the Teenage Witch style. Or ah no, bew Bewitched style magic.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: Right.
Chris: it felt like Even though you never see that fully, it kind of felt that way to me.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: Yes, like the blowing the candle to turn it on.
Chris: um Whereas
Sarah-Daye McDougall: Yeah.
Chris: with a little seance to ah with the body, putting the um though ah pentagram on his chest and all that.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: Yeah.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: Which doesn't happen in the book and we'll get to that.
Chris: at all.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: Yes, which was very surprising to me. And again, that whole like the death of Jimmy so much more again, just like subtle. It's not, it's just, it just happens. And then that's, that's it. And then it it it comes back in the end a little bit when we get introduced to Gary. But um I mean, that was pretty much the main plot point of the film.
Chris: Right. And the book definitely has a lot more consequences of all that. I feel like that you really you don't see you see things happening a little bit with like the um family feeling it a little bit, but not ah not nearly the experience that everybody has in the book.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: Yeah, I felt like the book was a lot more thoughts and feelings than action, which the movie, of course, a movie has to be a little bit more action. And that there was relationships in the book, but the movie changed that significantly, cut a whole character and relationship out of the book. Yeah.
Chris: which was my favorite character in the whole book. And like my favorite interaction even was that that healing relationship there and the way that went so with ah
Sarah-Daye McDougall: hmm.
Chris: um
Sarah-Daye McDougall: Ben.
Chris: Ben. and yeah So um I was really sad to not see him in the film at all and um would have loved to have gotten that experience.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: Yes.
Chris: But I understand they have to cut things in films for time a lot of times too. And that relationship would have been a lot of investment to get there.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: hmm.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: And it would have been i mean, it could have been a really interesting I mean, a romcom usually only focuses on one relationship and they chose to do Sally and Gary and we'll get into the characters in a moment.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: But um it would have been interesting to see how they did the two relationships between Jillian and Ben and then Sally and Gary.
Chris: Right. That's true.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: um And then, i mean, even the daughters had relationships in the book, which they were much younger in the film, um which so having relationships in the film would not have worked.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: But um yeah, just the change, the fact that they focused on one relationship and um which I think you need to do for a romcom, but it just would have been interesting to see.
Chris: right
Sarah-Daye McDougall: if all of the relationships were in, or maybe like a TV show could have done it better or like had more time to delve into the different relationships, but it was very interesting, the differences in that.
Chris: that's true
Chris: i was surprised I was surprised by the lack of, like, she didn't move out of the aunt's house at all, Sally.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: Right.
Chris: I thought that was weird because I was like, it this happens in a whole different city. This was her establishing herself before all this stuff happens to her, and then she grows to accept the aunts because of that.
Chris: So having them still live there was interesting to me.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: Well,
Sarah-Daye McDougall: I feel like a good chunk of the book was condensed to the first 10 minutes of the film. um Like they've really condensed a lot of the history of the sisters and Sally's relationship with my goal.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: um If I'm remembering the name correctly. um And then it, it did feel like they had moved away. i don't know if it was a different city, but um you know, once Michael passed,
Sarah-Daye McDougall: She did move back in the with the aunts, but she didn't move back in with the aunts in the book.
Chris: Right.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: They don't come back until the very end of the book.
Chris: Right. They live with them, and then after he dies, they move away, and the girls get raised without them for a while.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: Yes. Yeah, very different. But it was nice to see the aunts have a bigger role consistently throughout the film. um But we're talking about all the characters, so let's dive into our characters and then we can talk about all of the plot points.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: So, of course, first up, we have Sally Owens, played by the wonderful Sandra Bullock.
Chris: good.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: um What did you think of Sandra's performance of Sally?
Chris: was just a little baby. was weird seeing young Sandra Bullock there, but as someone who didn't watch this, and yeah, both of them being that young, but I thought she did a really good job with that role.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: Both.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: Yes.
Chris: I thought that she had the right emotional distance, but still ah was ah filling that role of the more responsible ah sister of the two.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: Yes.
Chris: And I mean, I don't see that from Sandra Bullock a lot of times. I feel like she's usually the crazy one in things, but...
Sarah-Daye McDougall: Yeah, she's usually more of the comedic route. um But that brings in Nicole Kidman, who plays her sister, Jillian Owens, who is the more, you know, um free of the, yes, free spirited of the two sisters.
Chris: Mm-hmm.
Chris: The free spirit, yeah.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: So I really thought those two actresses nailed the sisters.
Chris: Yeah, I agree. There was a good balance between them. They played off each other well. they They felt like sisters to me.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: Yeah, I agree. um So then the aunts are next, um which are played. And I don't think they're named until they come back at the end. I might be mistaken. But in the majority of the book, they're just referred to as the aunts.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: um And they are played by Socker Channing and Diane West. And that is Aunt Frances and Aunt Jett.
Chris: Yeah. They were good. they were I thought they were decent representations. I feel like the book version of them wasn't as, it was, had more stakes to them in some ways, but it was also not as flushed out in some ways too. like I think they did a good job with them in the but in the movie. Mm-hmm.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: Yeah, I liked all the added um kind of comedic relief that the aunts brought to it. And I did like the bigger role they played in the film, especially with Sally's first relationship um and then letting them try to let the sisters figure out, you know, their problems are on their own and then coming back in the nick of time.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: um i just thought, yes, yeah.
Chris: Knowing something's wrong and let your kids struggle.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: And just again, the way the... you know, they used magic in the movie. I just really liked how, um, how it was portrayed. Um, okay. Our antagonist, Jimmy Angelov played by Goran Visnik.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: I doubt I pronounced that last name correctly. Um, but, um, I mean, we don't really see him alive at all in the book.
Chris: Close enough.
Chris: There's a few moments of her talking about the things that would happen. And so for me, I didn't feel like the visualization of him fit what I was thinking of, but I feel like they got the point across.
Chris: He was there, but I was, I, I picture ah more, the pretty boy in some ways, you know, a rough and tumble pretty boy, you know, a Hemsworth or something, but just with a really, really bad attitude or something, just someone that was a little more of that can get whoever they want, but they treat them poorly sort of thing.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: Okay.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: Interesting. Yeah. I, um and having seen the film first, I pictured the actors as the characters. So that is very interesting to hear you say that because um he is Gorin.
Chris: Right.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: If again, if I'm pronouncing that right, that's definitely who I pictured as I was reading the book.
Chris: Yeah, and I'm noticing that reading the book first of most things, I'm finding myself liking the book a lot more than the movie in a lot of cases lately.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: Always.
Chris: Yeah.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: um That was going to be one of my questions to see like if you did think. Because for me, no. I didn't like the book because I grew up on the movie and it's so different. And there's like I don't know if I just wasn't paying attention, but I felt like there's not a lot of dialogue. There's so much of the author kind of telling the history. Like we get introduced to a new character and we're told their history and like how everything's kind of connected, um which I did like in the book, how everything was connected in the in those ways.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: um But the long drawn out history is just kind of kept pulling me out of the book.
Chris: Yeah, and I think the book for me, it just it told a much more complete story. I felt like when I watched the movie afterwards, I was like, you're missing so much of the depth of all these characters. Everything here has ah ah story.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: he
Chris: Yeah, it is a story that fits a 90s rom-com to me, but it doesn't have the emotional depth or the um story depth that I liked out of the book.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: Right.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: Right. And it's, you know, worth it to note again that this movie did not do well when it first came out. um And I can totally see why. Like, it is not a great...
Sarah-Daye McDougall: film in the sense of, you know, like Oscar worthiness. um
Chris: Right.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: But like it it has become a cult classic and like our generation, especially as like the nostalgic generation. So we grew up watching this film every October. So um yeah, it definitely hits those um good feelings.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: um But going.
Chris: I thought the next characters were interesting, though, because they're actresses that have actually gotten some more.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: Right.
Chris: At least the Evan Rachel Woods has got a lot more well-known now than she would have been as a child there.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: Right.
Chris: so
Sarah-Daye McDougall: Right. um And um yes, but so Gary Hallett is the um officer played by Aidan Quinn, um shows up a lot quicker in the film than in the book, but
Chris: I know I skipped one, but...
Chris: And in the book, I think his story makes a lot more sense, too, because they build a part of him from ah history of his grandfather getting struck by lightning and you know all this stuff that was a through line from everything else and gives him a reason for why he's so honest, why he wants to do the right thing always, why he ended up chasing down this guy all the way over here.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: hu
Sarah-Daye McDougall: And it was nice to see in the book, like the history between Jimmy and Gary, because you didn't really get that in the film as much. I mean, you know that he's looking for Jimmy, but in the book, we get this whole backstory about the drugs and the college kids that died because of the drugs. And that is why he wanted to hunt Jimmy down.
Chris: Yeah, felt a lot more up felt felt more earned in a lot of ways.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: Right, exactly. um So Kylie and Antonia are the daughters of Sally Owens, and they are played Kylie by Evan Rachel Wood, which you mentioned is ah more well-known actress.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: And then Alexandra Tripp plays Antonia. now in the it but it seems like um the ages were like first of all they're much older in the book but also kylie and tonia are switched in the movie yeah antonia is older in the book but she is younger in the film which was an interesting kind of pointless change
Chris: Yeah.
Chris: Right. And
Chris: i don't know that it changed anything. It probably just fit better with the actresses that got to play him. And so that didn't bother me at all. But
Sarah-Daye McDougall: Yeah, it didn't bother me either. um Reading the book, it was just interesting to see how much bigger of a role they had, and they had their own relationships as well.
Chris: And I mean, I liked the relationship between um Jillian and Kylie having that like the 13th birthday party where she cuts off all her hair and decides to, you know, go blonde or whatever with the story was there.
Chris: I thought that was something that was missing a little bit. That would have been nice to get a little more of that tension between Sally and Jillian. But we didn't have that long a time frame in the movie to go there.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: right yes yeah it was and just to see you know yeah like you said the tension between the sisters sisters and that family dynamic um i'm gonna mention two other characters um but they're well we'll start with maria owens very so very small part but also such a um
Chris: ah You don't see that time pass.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: ah significant role in the family. um So she is like the first Owens and the curse um started with her.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: um And in the film she is played by Caprice Benedetti. And then our second character is Ben um who is in the relationship with Jillian in the book and then of course not in the film whatsoever.
Chris: The science teacher that every kid was in love with apparently.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: yeah
Chris: Shh, shh, shh.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: And it's just so, it's just, it was a nice little storyline to see Jillian's, yes, and the sweet little rabbit, um to see Jillian's kind of progress um going from Jimmy to Ben.
Chris: And the rabbit.
Chris: Right. And the way my wife sees the saw the movies was as there was a physical curse that had to be broken.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: Mm-hmm.
Chris: And I think they might mention that a little bit there in the end of the film. Whereas in the book, I didn't see it as an actual curse. I felt it was more just a generational legacy that they felt like they had to had to feel this way, had to do these things this way, and they had to overcome that a little bit.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: Yeah.
Chris: But either way, I think they ah they see it as a curse, and it can still be um fill that superstition in a family sometimes.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: Right. Exactly.
Chris: and
Sarah-Daye McDougall: Well, and that just goes back to how the book, The Magic, is just – well, okay. the The book gives the name Practical Magic – it makes more sense than it does in the film because it's literally just – There as a a part of their lives. It's very subtle. Like you like you said, there's no spells and and visual magic. So I think that's the curse is representative is that, well, it's just it's just there. It's generational.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: um And it's not like a so something physical, like you said, that they have to break, like they do in the film.
Chris: Right, and um the ants are giving little like community advice sort of ah magic, more of a superstitious, here, put this under your pillow, you kill this bird, and it it'll do this for you. But it's nothing that really feels like we're making casting this spell on you and making this happen.
Chris: and Whereas even that that's more ah put on to Sally in the um the movie where she has her own little shop selling the remedies and stuff that are more that practical magic.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: her
Sarah-Daye McDougall: Exactly. Yes. um um So we we can get into the plot points now. we've We've sort of been talking about that throughout our conversation already. But um the opening again, um i mentioned it was very condensed in the film compared to what we get in the book.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: um And again, the aunts are much more fleshed out as individual characters. um And then something that the movie added speaking on the curse is the whole um death beetle.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: um And like how that's the representation of the curse. Now they do mention hearing the beetle in the book, but it's not as much of a representation of this curse and it doesn't have the whole um kind of flashback play out.
Chris: There's a bit more of like ah it's a superstitious thing. So they hear a beetle and that points towards that's what's causing this or what that was the sign of this is coming.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: Yes.
Chris: Not so much that it's going to cause his death, but this is something that's coming. There was the black dog waiting by the gate. There was there's a whole bunch of different signs that were superstitious things that probably wouldn't mean anything to most people because the ants were so in tune with it.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: yeah
Chris: They knew this is coming.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: Yes Um
Chris: So...
Sarah-Daye McDougall: So we go through the opening and we're introduced to all these characters. um But then the catalyst of the story is Jimmy's death. Now, a big change in Jimmy's death is who kills Jimmy.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: um In the book, Jillian arrives at Sally's home and Jimmy is already dead. um And she thinks that she killed him. Turns out at the end, um it was not actually her and the Belladonna, but um she did think it was her.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: Now in the movie, she calls Sally for help and Sally goes to her aide. Then they're kidnapped by Jimmy. And then the whole scene in the car with the Belladonna, which I do love that scene. So I was...
Sarah-Daye McDougall: um Again, that visual magic of them kind of reading each other's minds. um And then so Sally is actually the one that kills Jimmy with the Belladonna.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: And then we have an entire um resurrection scene that is not in the book, um only to kill him again.
Chris: Right. We can bring him back.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: Right. So what did you think? um So for me, this was jarring reading the book because I was I thought. bringing Jimmy back was going to be a theme in the book.
Chris: Part of the...
Sarah-Daye McDougall: um Even when Jillian came and he was already dead, i thought that we would still get some sort of resurrection, but we didn't. um And I like, I was a little sad to see Sally not be a part, like not go to her rescue um because it's just part of that sisterly bond that we get from the film.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: But what did you think on the flip side?
Chris: I see it in the same light, but the opposite way. I think that her showing up there and asking for her sister's help shows that sister bond the same way. She knew this was her safe place she could come to.
Chris: And i think not resurrecting him shows more of that practical magic instead of we're witches who can do all sorts of things, including bring the dead back.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: Right.
Chris: Yeah.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: Right.
Chris: And so but I think for a visual, it made a lot of sense um of, oh, we can have some fun um making the Lainley sisters do what they thought they saw as a kid and what are, you know, in the books and um make this happen as just a fun little thing they can do while they've you know just killed someone and they want to try to change the story.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: Right.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: Mm-hmm.
Chris: um So it gave a good visual story point. So I didn't mind it. I didn't enjoy it as much as I liked the story path in the book.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: Have you had a lot of these conversations with your wife too? So since she also grew up watching the film and has she read the book?
Chris: Yeah, yeah she hasn't she has not read the book. And so for her, this was all, i was we were watching it and I was just ruining it the whole way through for her going like, that's not how that happens.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: Okay.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: Oh, I bet.
Chris: that's That's not right. That's not right. But she's used to that for me because anything that I read, which is most stuff that's coming out, I tend to you know tell her the little footnotes of it as we're going.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: Mm-hmm.
Chris: Like, oh, that's not how that happens the book. That's not how that happens.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: Um, so I was doing the same thing.
Chris: So.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: My husband has not read the book or seen the film.
Chris: Okay.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: Um, and so I made him watch it with me, but he, he still hadn't read the book, but I was like, Hey, have to watch this for the podcast. Watch it with me. Cause you've never seen it. And his sister also grew up watching it.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: So he's been around it.
Chris: OK.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: Um, but yes, I was doing the same thing. Um, as we were watching the film, I was like, oh wait, that didn't happen in the book or that's different than the book.
Chris: That's different.
Chris: Now, I'm assuming this will be one you show to your girls at some point.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: and We can't help ourselves.
Chris: Have they seen it yet, or are they?
Sarah-Daye McDougall: No, not yet.
Chris: OK. They're young, so I know.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: um Yeah, i mean, we did Agatha all along, um and I'm surprised that they handled that as well as they did, but this is a little darker than Agatha all along, so I'll wait maybe a few more years to show them this one, but I am excited to add this to the lineup.
Chris: That one has weird. and
Chris: It would be curious to see how they like it as another generation down of away from ah from what is a cult classic to you.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: Yes.
Chris: It might not be as fun for them, or it might be super fun if they see you enjoying it.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: Yeah. I mean, they're both really into witches. So I think that this would be one of the ones that they like. um But yeah, we'll probably a few years, maybe when the second one comes out, maybe we'll see how how mature they are.
Chris: That'll have to be a... yeah, that's true. Next year when that...
Sarah-Daye McDougall: but Yeah, they're only, well, um my youngest is turning four um and then my oldest is five. So I think they're still a tad young for practical magic, but we'll see.
Chris: there you go There you go. then you can have the Sister Lee Bond lessons all the way through it.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: I know. And I'm an only child, so it will be interesting to see, you know, how they feel about, you know, the themes of this book as opposed to me.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: Because I'm like, sure, Sister Liban, cool.
Chris: yeah
Sarah-Daye McDougall: I don't know what that is.
Chris: ah My family was four kids and then two step-siblings, so I had lots of bonds, but not necessarily.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: Wow, big family. Yeah.
Chris: You find you find your bond with one or two of those ah really close, and even then, I don't know that I have quite the bond of as ah just siblings.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: Mm-hmm.
Chris: which one two Two siblings get a lot closer than a big family, and my wife's an only child, so she doesn't know that either.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: Yeah, I think.
Chris: Yeah.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: Ah, yeah. um So, okay, so Demi's death. um And then i guess the next part is just kind of like the haunting and then the investigation. And again, this all happens much quicker in the film because there's less time.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: And correct me if I'm wrong, the book kind of spans several years, right?
Chris: I think after he dies, it's about a year and a half, a year, because she has her 13th birthday, and then it's mostly during that year of her thirteenth her being 13.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: Okay. Okay.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: Her 13th birthday. Yeah. Okay.
Chris: And her starting to realize that she's got this power of being able to see the auras and see the um his spirit standing in the yard, which was ah was really interesting that she sees him and just doesn't say anything for a while and just sees, oh, there's that guy standing in the yard still.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: Mm-hmm.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: Yes. And that was interesting because it was Kylie in both the book and the film that saw the spirit.
Chris: Right.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: But again, Kylie's younger in the book and she's older, played by Evan Rachel Wood um in the film. um But like, as I was reading that scene of her seeing him out in the garden, i totally pictured Evan Rachel Wood's character looking out the window from the film because and that's like one of the iconic, I guess, for lack of a better word, um parts of that film is is his ghost out there.
Chris: And I think that the way they handled it in the film was fine. i I didn't didn't bother me the way he was haunting them. But I think that all the little things meant a lot more in the book to like they weren't talking. So they weren't seeing that all this stuff was ah cumulative and all happening because there was something wrong.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: Right. um And I like all the little things that happen, like the frog having the ring and the ring showing up. And um I think the boots even was in the book.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: um And then there were some lines that I noticed that were word for word from the book to the film. Jillian, she's in the car.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: um And once they, I think they've already killed Jimmy, she says something that was taken right out of the book. um And then there were some other little things, little lines that were taken right out of the book, which I really appreciated.
Chris: I always enjoy that, yeah, when you get to see, oh hey, that was the thing, they said the thing.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: um so Before we get to the exorcism that happens in the movie and at the film, is there any other points of the book that you'd like to discuss before we kind of start wrapping up the story?
Chris: I think that the, um like we've talked about, the relationship between ah Ben and Jillian really did have a lot of healing elements to it that I really wish were there.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: Yeah. Yeah.
Chris: That was um her going from, I killed him, I deserve to suffer, to i can move on from this. I can recover. I'm not the person I thought I was growing up that I created this image of someone of myself ah being this a person that that doesn't deserve love, to i can also have a good life and be loved.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: Yeah.
Chris: I just should have waited for the right person to really give me that experience fully the way I want it.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: And again, I love the contrast between Ben and Jimmy and just seeing what she was used to and seeing what she could have.
Chris: Yeah, I think I wrote down a, maybe don't have it here. There was a ah line in the, um here it is.
Chris: I didn't write it down. OK. Well, there's a line she says in the book that I thought I meant to write down today that was something along the lines of, I do deserve love. and Or no, it's the last line of the book is something along lines of, um love as much as possible.
Chris: oh i'll have to look it up. But it was definitely like that kind of does sum up the whole story and really is the good point of the whole thing.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: Yeah. And that again, that's like the difference of the book and the film is like the book was a lot more um like realistic, the magic, more magical undertones.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: um and it again, um I'm reading little notes that I had written out. um The book is more about love and loss, guilt and forgiveness, family and belonging. Whereas, of course, Hollywood um and especially in the 90s, Hollywood um the magic is visual and literal it's whimsical romantic dramatic gothic horror so um again i think if they were to do it today if they weren't doing the sequel and they were just rebooting it as a tv show i think we would get a lot more of those guilt and forgiveness themes and love and loss themes that the book yeah mm-hmm
Chris: It does seem more like the modern yeah way of telling a story more so than the way the 90s told rom-com stories.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: Yeah, exactly. um So then let's get into the exorcism that um they added for, you know, you have to have a climax in a film. um And I think you do kind of get the like community, like, so you get the sisterly bond, by the way, they break the curse, but then all of the women are coming together um that have been looking at the sisters as outcasts throughout the whole film and they come together and join forces and help the situation which is really nice yeah
Chris: Right.
Chris: A little bit of a women helping women story and that is in there. But um it kind of felt a little bit like Agatha looking for her coven and you know in that show too. To me, I was like, oh, it's just grab whoever we can find from the town and we'll make ourselves a coven.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: Exactly.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: Yes. Yes, exactly. But um it worked. And I think it's just cool because in both like Agatha and in Practical Magic, and I think actually in the movie, um somebody even says there's a little bit of witch in all of us, um which is really cool to think about. We all have a little magic in us. We just have to find it
Chris: Exactly. Yeah. And in the book, I actually really liked that storm and all everything that was coming at the time and the way that the family comes together as their little unit when the ants come into town and help them deal with things.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: Yeah.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: Yes.
Chris: Once they finally ask for help, they get what the the help they need when the ants help them dispose of ah the spirit and help cleanse the house so he can they can have their nice family.
Chris: life here in the town and they grow to actually see oh you guys are here to help we're part we are family and we can do this all together if you like and Ben shows up and everybody comes together
Sarah-Daye McDougall: Exactly. Yeah. And I do. So, Yes. um Yes. And both the book and the film, you know, you have everybody coming together to defeat the spirit of Jimmy. um It's just, you know, the movie is a little bit more extreme in that.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: But um
Chris: chanting and rocking and
Sarah-Daye McDougall: yes. And then the the white light that breaks the curse.
Chris: Right.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: um So let's talk a little bit about some things that were cut. Yeah. And, well, we kind of already talked about how magic played a bigger role in the film, and that was added from the book. Again, like, it's just practical magic in the book.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: um But the book also focuses a little bit more on Sally's daughters as adults, which we don't get to see in the film. um You know, we don't really get any epilogue in the film.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: um Now, we do have a sequel coming out. um Do you think... where Where do you think the sequel is going to fall? We don't have a lot of information on the sequel. So do you think we're going to kind of get some of this, anything from Practical Magic, the book in the sequel? Or do you think her other books are going to be what the sequel is about?
Chris: Well, the books, the Practical Magic books have like two more sequels that come after it and like one or two that come before it. So there is a lot more in a series of stuff here that um the way my wife described it is the one of them is a sequel that talks about the girls.
Chris: One of them actually is the storyline of the ants from the prequels.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: Ooh.
Chris: And so there could be some fun stuff you could do there. I almost would do a double story, tell both of them the same time, do that whole back and forth storyline where you tell part of the past, part of the future.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: Like the aunt's story and then the daughter's future.
Chris: Yeah, I would tell them both at the same time and have them tie together in some way.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: Love that. Yeah, that's really cool.
Chris: Because she always she's talked about how there was always two daughters and or two girls that become this pair of witches. that is ah And she hasn't read the books, but she apparently got that impression from ah understanding something about the movie or at the time or something, that it's always two and it's always the storyline.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: oh Yeah, I mean, that totally makes sense. There's the aunts, there's Jillian and Sally, and then there's Sally's daughter. So yeah, that totally makes sense.
Chris: And so there could be some interesting future lines there. And it would be cool to see the ah girls having broken the curse, actually experiencing ah life in more ah stable manner, but then also still having shenanigans and stuff that comes up because of that.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: Yeah.
Chris: Either it's either helping the ants figure out something.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: I mean, they're still witches. Yeah. um But now that you say that, that it now that you say that the aunts have a storyline, Joey King and Macy Williams are cast in the film.
Chris: Yeah.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: And a lot of people speculated that they were going to be the adult. Sally's daughters so the adult um Kylie and Antonia ah but now I'm thinking they could actually be the aunts in the past um because we really like any of the behind the scenes set photos that we've seen is really just Sally and Jillian together we haven't seen them interacting with anybody else at this time um so they totally could do what you're saying and do the two different timelines and I would love that
Chris: Yeah.
Chris: And even i mean the biggest thing for a sequel at this point is you have to get the cast, that the popular cast of Salian and ah and
Sarah-Daye McDougall: Right.
Chris: ah Jillian in there so you've got to have those Sandra Bullock and Nicole Kidman in there because that's what's going to bring people out to the theater again ah so maybe it's the ants because you can have something happening well either both stories would be central to them in some way you'd have them as the the ah generation right above and the generation right below you could absolutely ah have them tie into both stories so kind of fun
Sarah-Daye McDougall: Jillian.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: Yeah.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: Yeah. Well, it'll be it'll be fun to see as we get more information on the film what's going to be happening there and who Joey and Maisie are playing.
Chris: That will be interesting.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: um So talk to me a little bit about what you think of – um overall picture in the changes that the film made from the book and um did the changes kind of streamline this story or did they kind of weaken it
Chris: In my opinion, I think they weakened it a bit. i think it became a very 90s story that didn't have a lot of depth, but I think it was ultimately fun. I enjoyed it. I did like the movie, but I do think that it was weakened from losing some of those paths that could have gone down.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: I agree. um Although as much as I again, think that if it wasn't a sequel, I think doing a reboot and focusing more on their relationships would be nice to see in a show.
Chris: Yeah.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: um so let's move on to our bookmarked moments. And for the first bookmarked moment, what do you like the best about the movie adaptation?
Chris: I think that some of the visuals of witchy things like the pentagram on the chest in whipped topping is a fun little ah added feature that you know I wouldn't have ever thought of that.
Chris: and But they put that on there. I'm like, oh, that's a ah fun thing to visualize.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: it
Chris: And using that in witch tradition instead of a more traditional material.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: Right. And then she takes a little bite of it.
Chris: as one of my favorites. ah Yeah, it's a little lick off of it. Yeah, I think that was one of my favorite scenes, even though the actresses didn't make sense to me from the book side. i was like, OK, that's fun.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: Right. um
Chris: What about you?
Sarah-Daye McDougall: What was your least favorite part of the movie adaptation?
Chris: I think um
Chris: just the lack of depth to the relationships between um without some of the extra characters and stuff, the lack of the missing ah relationships that I was expecting to see that weren't there either Ben and also the girls growing up and having their jobs that had reasons, the um seeing them support each other through um the chase scene where she's ah scared, i think it was Kylie, that she was going to get taken by those guys.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: Yes.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: Yes.
Chris: Her sister supporting her through that was really interesting.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: Yes.
Chris: That built a really deep connection that we didn't see in the movie.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: Yeah, I agree. Yeah, that is. in the Yeah, I mean, we don't really get to know the sisters, the daughters at all, really, in the film. um and And I think, again, that's because they're so young um and the film is really focused on Jillian and Sally.
Chris: And you didn't want to have to cast more actresses, so you can keep to the young ones that people are going to grow with as the story goes there, and it makes more sense that way.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: hmm.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: Mm hmm.
Chris: But it was sad to not see some of that thing those things. Mm-hmm.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: Yeah, and I also agree that missing Ben from the film is travity because, again, like, it's just a lot of growth for Jillian. And, again, from going from um Jimmy to Ben is just a really great growth for her as a character. So um I do want to see, because I don't know – um Aidan Quinn is cast in the sequel.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: Um, so it's going to be interesting to see where the two girls are in their lives, um, at this point and how much time has passed in the, in the film, you know, in their, in their life in the film.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: Um,
Chris: It's been 30 years so in real life, though.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: Yeah, I know. So it's like has 30 years passed in the film or, um you know, where are we going to be?
Chris: It certainly hasn't for Sandra Bullock, but.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: I know she does look good. um okay so last bookmarked moment. ah What was the most memorable moment of the book or the film?
Chris: The most memorable moment in the book would probably be
Chris: do you have one mind? me think for a sec.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: I think for me, the thing that stood out the most was Ben as a character because the movie is really about – it is about Jillian and Sally, but then it's also about Sally and um Gary.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: And so to see that there was this whole character that was cut from the book that had a relationship with Jillian was just very jarring for me reading the book. um And I think that's what really stood out to me the most.
Chris: I think he would have been my ah most memorable from the book as well, but that's, but I've been talking about him so much, that relationship so much that I figured that was, I should come up something else and then I couldn't.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: yeah
Chris: But yeah, his relationship, him waiting, ah being so patient with her waiting to get into that point where she was ready to accept a relationship and then, you know,
Sarah-Daye McDougall: Yeah, well, it is. it's
Sarah-Daye McDougall: Yes.
Chris: her rabbi that rat the rabbit being there to keep her engaged when she he was worried she was going run. was like, oh, that's cute. And then how much she builds that interest in what he's interested in. She starts reading the science books. And so much of that part of ah her grows because she's with the right person that she can she can feel comfortable with.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: And I like the part also about the rabbit where I believe it's when the aunts come and he comes over and um, he's thinking about how the rabbit is home alone and he's going to be coming home to a mess because he's staying with Jillian instead of going home to take care of the rabbit.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: And so he's like the, the rabbit's going to like shred.
Chris: He's going to eat my boots, but
Sarah-Daye McDougall: Yeah. Eat the boots or eat a magazine and stuff like that. So, um, the rabbit does have a really nice ah role in the book, doesn't he?
Chris: but it was worth it.
Chris: And his practical he was actually might be the the the title character since he was a magician.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: um
Chris: He was a close-up magic magician. So it was he's the actual practical magic of the whole story.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: yeah
Sarah-Daye McDougall: um So, Lee Pace is cast in the practical magic Practical Magic sequel, and as much as I like the idea of us going back and forth between the aunts and Sally's daughters...
Sarah-Daye McDougall: um because the original film focused on sally and gary maybe this film will be focusing on jillian and ben and they could be playing we could be seeing this relationship play out in this film um yeah um so we still get both relationships just in two different films but again with with having um joey king
Chris: That could be kind of fun.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: And Maisie Williams. um It's just it's going to be interesting to see what happens here. So.
Chris: And they very well might not go off of any of the pre any of the existing content either.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: That is very true as well.
Chris: They might just tell a new story, and that would be okay.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: Yeah.
Chris: But there is so much content to go off of that I haven't read all the other books yet either.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: Yeah. I mean, there's was four or books or five books.
Chris: so
Chris: Yeah, I think it was something like that.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: There's quite a few books. Yeah.
Chris: Yeah, two prequels and two sequels or something like that.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: um
Sarah-Daye McDougall: Right. So um anything else you want to talk about before we hop off?
Chris: um A lot of the big topics of this thing I felt like was a superstition and the whole thing.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: Yes.
Chris: Are you a superstitious person?
Sarah-Daye McDougall: Me? Yes.
Chris: Yeah. You are? Yeah. So like the ah um things showing up, meaning different meanings of things, the moon getting its rings, all that means lot more if you actually ah buy into the idea.
Chris: And so that's why I was curious how you feel about all that and in the sensation.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: Yes. I actually look at the rings about the moon, um not only from Practical Magic, but Legolas in The Lord of the Rings says something about, um you know, like ah ah red blue moon rises or something like that.
Chris: Mm-hmm.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: um Like blood has been spilt this night.
Chris: oh yeah.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: um Not that I think blood has been spilled, but yeah, I definitely look at the moon and the auras that the moon is um giving off and Um, I'm not as scared of black cats as, um, you know, some people with superstitions would be, but if I spill salt, I throw it over my shoulder.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: i won't walk under a ladder. um
Chris: I spilled an entire container of salt the other day. And and I got that question a few times. ah Did you toss that over your shoulder and everything?
Sarah-Daye McDougall: you just got to toss it over your shoulder. Just a little bit is all you need.
Chris: I'm like, I don't know if I did. i was too busy cleaning up a giant mess, but I probably should have. That's probably where all my problems are coming from in life.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: um And we might talk about this more. um You are joining me as well as Jordan, who did our Percy Jackson coverage. um We're going to do a fun Halloween episode because we have five Fridays in October.
Chris: Yes.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: um So we might talk about ghosts in that episode. But um do speaking of superstitions, do you believe in ghosts?
Chris: um Not overly, but I'm open to the idea of it. um I'm definitely not a much of a horror, scary movie person at all.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: Hmm.
Chris: And so I'm interested to be a part of that episode because it's not something i dig into too deep, but I'm always willing to talk about it and and dig into the different ah spiritual sides of it.
Chris: Yeah. I think that that I've always liked the idea of a spiritual realm, but I don't know that if i how much I buy into it or not.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: here
Sarah-Daye McDougall: Sure. Okay. Interesting.
Chris: I'm a skeptic.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: Ah, my husband is as well. I am not. I believe in ghosts. I have seen ghosts. So, um yeah. ah But we can get into that.
Chris: Perfect.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: So stay tuned, listeners.
Chris: That'll be fun. Yep. Tune it in next time.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: Yes. um So we actually, listeners, next week we will be doing – Uh, Jordan is joining me for Dracula and Nosferatu.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: Um, and then yes, Chris, you will be back along with Jordan, um, for our Halloween bonus episode. Um, and it's Halloween is on Friday. So I'm so excited, um, that this Halloween is my favorite holiday.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: So, um, this worked out really well this year.
Chris: Perfect. That's be fun.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: Um, but do you want to let listeners know where they can find you online?
Chris: um You can follow me on Instagram or most social things at a cyborg night four Oh four. i don't post much, but I may start adding more to that soon.
Chris: And I'm always happy to share it and talk with people about books and films or whatever else on those platforms. So, um,
Sarah-Daye McDougall: And that is night with a K, right?
Chris: Yes, that is, it's a knight with a K.
Sarah-Daye McDougall: Yes. All right. Well, thank you so much for joining me for Practical Magic, and I will see you in a couple weeks.
Chris: The couple weeks. Thank you.
