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21: Wicked Part Two: Plot Analysis
29 Plays16 days ago
In this episode of Book Watch, we’re diving into a plot breakdown of 2024’s Wicked and 2025’s Wicked Part 2: For Good, and comparing it to the Broadway Musical and the 1995 book by Gregory Maguire. We are joined by self-described Wicked superfan Abbey Umali, as she brings her unique perspective on the stage production to the conversation. How well did the film capture the heart of the book and the musical? What changes worked—and which ones missed the mark?
In Part 2 we explore:
Major plot changes and timeline differences
Major omissions regarding political themes in the book and how they almost disappeared in the other adaptations
How the adaptations changed the tone and adult content of the book to appeal to a wider audience
Join hosts Chris, Jordyn, Sarah-Daye and special guest Abbey Umali as they break down what worked, what didn’t, and whether this adaptation does the book justice.
Tell us your thoughts! Did you love or hate this adaptation? Let’s discuss in The Book Watch Lounge on Facebook
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Transcript
00:00:01
Speaker
Hello, book watchers, and welcome back to part two of our Wicked discussion. Of course, Jordan and Chris are with me, and we are joined once again with Abby, who is our Wicked stage production guru. I also have a ladybug that has entered my office, so I might get a little distracted from time to time, so forgive me. um So, yeah, we are here to talk about the plot of Wicked. And let's just kick things off with Elphaba's birth. Well, actually, no. Let's back up because have a beautiful entrance. So this is part two of our Wicked, right? So this is Book Watch for Good.
00:00:39
Speaker
Yes. um So Glinda comes to um the Munchkin land. I believe it's Munchkin land. And we get our for good number.
00:00:53
Speaker
No, sorry. What's the? No one wants the wicked. wicked Thank you. um No one mourns the wicked number. And in the middle of that, we're introduced to her history and the mother having the affair and being born green because of the green elixir.
00:01:12
Speaker
um So talk to me a little bit. Let's start with you, Jordan, and talk to us about how you um enjoyed or didn't enjoy bringing seeing this part of the play brought to the big screen.
00:01:24
Speaker
um I liked it a lot. I, again, I had no like prior knowledge or experience with Wicked other than listening to the soundtrack. um And so it was cool to like so be able to see who was talking and who was saying what and like the facial expressions. Cause I think Ariana like did a really good job portraying that like Even though we're saying like no one mourns the wicked and we're so glad that the witch is dead, like she's actually sad about it because her and Elphaba are dear friends. And so being able to have that facial expression of her being sad while singing. that she's happy was good and helpful for me as somebody with no prior experience. Because when you're just listening to a song, like you just have to listen to the words and the way they're being sung and you don't get to see like that she's about to start crying because she's sad that her friend is dead. So I think it was a really good experience.
00:02:25
Speaker
visual representation and then when it kind of loops back on itself um in the end of part two and you get to see it again a little bit more and it hits even harder and it you feel it even deeper and that loss that glinda's going through like hurts even more because in the beginning it's still a little confusing you're like why is she like looking like that like i'm confused And so then by the time you get all the way through it where it loops back, you're like, oh, I get it. And it hurts so bad now. It's so emotionally painful. But yeah, I really liked i think the production value was great. Ariana looked great and everything looked bright. And it looked like it was straight out of The Wizard of Oz, like with the bright yellow brick road and like all the munchkins in their costumes. Like it was really good.
00:03:16
Speaker
What did you think, Abby? How did it compare to the stage production? I loved it for sure. I think that's something that, again, with it being a movie, you can really get the whole scene. Like you get kind of a bird's eye view of everything that's going on. And I think they did a really great job, like you said, of making it look feel like you're in the Wizard of Oz, like especially the yellow brick road, like the Munchkinland, like you know, that's such an iconic scene in the Wizard of Oz as well. And I think they did a really good job of portraying that. And then again, having that seemed like kind of the same take or not the same take, but it looked very similar, like when they brought that back in the end, but then kind of
00:03:59
Speaker
you know, pointing it in a different direction. I thought that was really, really cool because in the stage production, um you kind of get that, like there everyone's wearing kind of the same costumes. um But I think one thing that was different about the movie is the immediacy, like how quickly or how soon after Glenda's kind of giving this flashback um versus in the stage production,
00:04:23
Speaker
I feel like I kind of got more of a time gap in there between like when she's retelling the story um and kind of when it happened. um So that was pretty cool. And then kind of just one um one thing about that kind of opening number two, i kind of heard from people who saw the movie and not the musical scene. Like it's so obvious that the wizard is Elphaba's dad, like from that first. um Yeah, from that first scene, it's like,
00:04:52
Speaker
you know Jeff Goldblum, even though they kind of you know edited his voice a little bit, it's still kind of obvious. It was all there, if you look at the song credits, like you can kind of see, versus in the stage production, you kind of are you don't really figure that out until the second act. um It's still kind of a mystery. You can't really see who's singing. The voice sounds different. um like you could maybe make an educated guess, but I definitely remember seeing the stage production and having that be like a, oh, like a revelation later on um versus I feel like you could kind of maybe pick up on it. But you guys let me know if that, um if you had that same effect, like with the with the wizard being the father and everything. And I know that's different in the book too. so
00:05:40
Speaker
In the book, you almost never see anything about that other than that the time dragon says he's your father, that the wizard is your father to her at some point, but we don't get that visual. But, um, I actually didn't mind the fact that we knew because the wizard didn't know. And so all through, like when we get that reveal in the second half, um, where he finds out that he just basically had his daughter killed and, uh, and how much, you know, a sentimental man was about how he wanted to have a family and how now he's the villain entirely of his own, you know, story arc even. And it made for a good reveal, I think, even though we already knew it made for him finding out really being impactful.
00:06:17
Speaker
um One of the things about the ah the movie I really like is how much they had to avoid copyright infringement on The Wizard of Oz. And so, like, The Brick Road is not the spiral ah that we see in the Wizard of Oz, it's slightly changed so that they can not get sued. And there's so much of this all even through the, I think even through the stage play, but they had to be very strategic about how they showed certain things. And like the shoes being ah the silver shoes based on the book versus the red ruby slippers based on the Wizard of Oz, things like that, that really um I thought were interesting to look up later and see all these Easter eggs of things they changed to make it more interesting.
00:07:00
Speaker
um More ah the movie, not the her ah different from the Wizard of Oz. Just enough.
00:07:12
Speaker
So the, um we are then introduced to shiz and um I loved their transition from um no one more. It's the wicked to being the flashback essentially. um And then we, you know, we're introduced to more of our characters. We're deduced to Glinda and Bach morable. What did you guys think of, of this, these next few scenes?
00:07:39
Speaker
It flowed really well. I thought that it introduced the school in an interesting way of like, and it gave us that Ness is getting the preference to go to school, whereas Elthaba was meant to go home and um and just be green elsewhere and ah not and not bother anybody. and that didn't work out for her father the way he wanted. um and yeah, I thought it was really well done way to introduce to our characters there as they go to school.
00:08:10
Speaker
Yeah, that was really cool to see. you know on In the stage production, there's only so much you can do to kind of convey that you're in a school now and it's like a really quick kind of set change um and the songs kind of flow into each other. And that that's similar here too, but I think there's a little bit more of an interlude. But then you can really see kind of the landscape, like all the buildings and everything. Like that was really cool as just having that visual. Yeah.
00:08:37
Speaker
And then when Glinda comes in, think on her boat um and with all those stacks of of suitcases and bags, like that's a pretty iconic um kind of visual from the stage production as well. She's not on a boat, but it's kind of like a rolling cart, but stacked super high of the with the baggage. And so I thought it was a nice little nod to that as well, but just adapted to have that, have it be like surrounded by water and everything, which I love that.
00:09:06
Speaker
added more depth to it like dimension to it mom's are calling popsicle momsy mom wamsey and popsicical I think it was yeah I left out loud when i I I watched part one um like at home until I got the subtitles on there and I was like and it said popsicle like as his name actually and i was like oh i i didn't i guess we're calling him that of like well obviously we know like linda calls him that but it was just funny to it wasn't like something upland it was like literally popsicle that's funny i was credited yeah again unreliable narrator yeah yeah
00:09:42
Speaker
I thought the interesting scene to Shiz was interesting in how it gave Elphaba and Nessa's dad a little bit more depth in like a bad way. Because like in the book, he's a lot of it is very different. But like his character is he's more of like a bumbling fool type of character. like Nobody really takes him seriously. he's like yes, he...
00:10:12
Speaker
favors Nessa and he mistreats Elphaba but it's not really like open abuse the way that it is implied and portrayed in the movie where he's like actively like yelling at Elphaba or like, you know whisper yelling at her, like, do what I say, like, take care of your sister, do this, do that, like bossing her around and like being like a little bit more like aggressive towards her versus in the book. He's very like laid back like, well, you know how your sister is like, you have to take care of her like a lot gentler in the book. And so I think like that taking the time in the movie to shine that light on him and give him
00:10:55
Speaker
like this is part of why Elphaba is who she is and how she is and why she doesn't open herself up to people because she never had those tight familial bonds. And even Nessa, like she's my sister and I love her. Nessa does not treat Elphaba well. Like she like is mean to her and blames her and like, you know, That's not a a healthy sister bond. You know, I have two sisters. I kind of know what I'm talking about there. Almost as entitled as Glinda in some ways. Yes, in a lot of ways. And she's portrayed that way in the book, too, where she's like, well, you have to help me. You have to do this. You owe me this, that, and the other.
00:11:32
Speaker
um as far as like treatment and it's just assumed that it's okay to treat Elphaba the way that everybody does um so like getting that kind of insight into those two characters and like kind of turning up their negative aspects a little bit more in the movie I thought was like an interesting choice but also like a good choice because it brings them more to the forefront and they have more to do even if it's like doing bad things to Elphaba yeah i like in that um in that first kind of entrance to Shiz and kind of the one of the
00:12:12
Speaker
the reason that Elphaba's magic is exposed or her powers or whatever they're calling it, um, is because, you know, Nessa is trying to, you know, wheel herself somewhere. And then think it's Miss Cottle or whatever her name is, the shistress is like trying to, you know, take her away. And then Elphaba gets mad and is like defending her. Right. And so, um i yeah i mentioned in the previous episode, like I'm a wheelchair user. Like I have a kind of a different perspective on all that as well. But I did love to see that, like kind of that protectiveness from Elphaba. And in the stage production, you kind of see that a little bit, but it happens so fast. Like um in and in that it's Madame Morrible, too, who's trying to take her away. And then but it was a little bit unclear, I would say, like why she kind of flew off the handle. Um, and, um, you know, the chair is moving everywhere and, and all of that. And so I did like that. And also because we got that flashback of their childhood, um, kind of another example of her, of Elphaba defending Nessa and, um, you know, trying to protect her and all of that. And clearly Nessa didn't receive it very well. Like you could kind of see that she acknowledged it when they're both like, don't help me, don't help her, um you could see it a little bit but that's kind of the only time that I can think that Nessa really acknowledged ah what Elphaba was doing to support her um for the most part I was like why are you here um with Nessa and Elphaba's family relationship there we were just talking about with a um the way they're treating each other i think a lot of that is the way that siblings tend to um see one way when they're at home and before when they're being raised how
00:13:58
Speaker
um their treat to treat each other. And a lot of times that is something you have to learn to, oh, my sibling was protecting me. They weren't trying out to get me that whole time. They were protecting me from my parents, from everyone else. It just, Nessa still is buying into her parents' idea that Elthaba's bad. And that's, you know, something that a lot of kids can, I think, ah relate to in their upbringing sometimes. And so I like that.
00:14:24
Speaker
Yeah, and I can kind of, you know, maybe... empathize with it a little bit, which is unfortunate because I think, um you know, obviously she's very flawed, but I can understand that idea of like you already have some kind of a barrier.
00:14:42
Speaker
um Like obviously she's in a wheelchair and like she had a struggle and then it's like there's something else that is creating more of a struggle and like bringing more attention, like when maybe she kind of wanted to be back in the shadows a little bit.
00:14:55
Speaker
um But I do think it's interesting. that her being in a wheelchair is not like the biggest point of, like I guess, discrimination. like That's not the biggest issue. and we kind of touched on on race in the first episode too, but it's, you know, Alphaba's greenness is definitely more of, I guess, like an aberration than Nessa being in the wheelchair, which is kind of an interesting, like, yeah, just like view on like how their society
00:15:27
Speaker
views different different things or like different differences um so I do think that's interesting to see like oh like you know the character in the wheelchair like that's part of her character but like we hate her because she's being awful and not like because she's in the wheelchair you know what I mean so I do kind of appreciate appreciate that in a way And Shiz was a very diverse place when you looked around at the casting of all the other students and all that. I felt like they did a really good job of having all sorts of people and um different ah just looks all around. And you're like, wow, okay, this is a diverse place. And they still can't handle a girl with green skin. That's great. Yeah. but We're fine with people in wheelchairs. We're fine with munchkins. We're fine with a lot of things. Green, absolutely not. Animal, absolutely not.
00:16:17
Speaker
Even though the animals can like talk and wear clothes and like hold positions of authority, like being professors. It's like, we're going to actually backtrack. and This is where we draw the line. out Yeah. Green skin is where we can't can't do that. That's too much. Yeah.
00:16:33
Speaker
So after all of the commotion in the courtyard, Madame Morble takes Elphaba aside and explains that she's got what it takes and might be able to beat the wizard one day. And we get a beautiful number by Cynthia called The Wizard and eye and we talked a little bit last week about...
00:16:58
Speaker
per Michelle's singing voice. um It's just a little bit in the beginning of the song. um But what did we think of this scene, both the performances, the cinematography, especially when she is underneath like the stained glass and the color color.
00:17:19
Speaker
combination takes away the green and it's so cool and then the field so tell me Abby your thoughts on seeing this number come to life Yeah, no, I loved it. It's one of my favorite songs um from the musical in general. um And one thing kind of right before the song too, i I don't remember, but I don't think this is part of the stage production where Madame Warrable takes credit for what happened and Elphaba's use of the magic or the power. um
00:17:56
Speaker
It's possible, but if it is, it's like minute. So that is interesting. And I do like that that added because it kind of keeps it a little bit more under wraps. um And also kind of showing like she had, you know, Madame Morrible like has Elphaba's back. um Obviously we see that she's just using her and all of that good stuff. But I think in the stage production, everyone has more fear of Elphaba. Yes, because of the green skin, but also because... um they could kind of directly tie those incidents to her so just kind of like before like leading into that song um but the song in general i think is great she did a great job um i mentioned in the previous episode too like i was kind of a music nerd like i was really picky and i had that soundtrack on repeat for like most of my life so any little differences i picked up on um
00:18:50
Speaker
But I do think that, you know, the majority of any changes that happened, just like musically, were pretty tasteful. um And it's really hard when you're redoing something that's so iconic as some of those songs too. um And so I think she did a good job with that. And one thing I do appreciate about that song too, like when she is kind of having that premonition about like the celebration Oz that has to do with her, like we actually visually see that. Mm-hmm. that kind of ah foreshadowing, which is something that you don't really get in the stage production either. um And then just visually, as you kind of get to see more of the scenery, like inches, and then as she's running out into the field. And I um watched it recently with my mom, who's from the Midwest, and she's like, yep, that's a little not to Kansas right there. Like just with that. ah with that field and everything and so um i thought i thought it was great and again having it be a movie versus stage production you can really see all that emotion and how much she really does believe in the wizard at that point um and so i loved it great love both versions so
00:20:02
Speaker
I really did think that cinematography and the effects they used with the stained glass was absolutely stunning. It went with the song really well. It let her reflect on herself a bit while seeing the different versions of her that could be.
00:20:14
Speaker
And I really, I really appreciated the song and I thought it filled the story in a little bit more, little by little here. I really love the set of shiz. It feels like, I've never been to Venice, but it's what I imagine Venice is like like in its heyday, like with the canals everywhere and like the ivy on the buildings. And it just feels so...
00:20:37
Speaker
magical and beautiful and like very grounded and otherworldly at the same time. Like it feels like a ah fantasy setting. um And so like, that's what I was like paying attention to the most, I think.
00:20:51
Speaker
Sorry to the song, but I was like, wow, this is just really visually very stunning and very beautiful to look at. Like we got the green shake. Look at that building. Yeah.
00:21:02
Speaker
yeah Yeah, a little bit, which, you know, that just makes me a little bit more like Book Glinda because she loves architecture. So that's just that's what I was doing. Totally. Fair enough. I will say that, um like, the carving of ah Jeff Goldblum, like, when she goes into that little cave and it's just his face, that took me out of it a little bit. Like, we know it's the wizard, but then also watching um the One Wonderful Night, like... The clip of him like taking it. Yeah. It actually wasn't the wizard at all. It's literally just called Jeff Goldblum. yeah
00:21:39
Speaker
He's just in we in universe too. They're like, yeah, we also love Jeff Goldblum here. Perfect. Yeah, he's he's part of the Emerald City Players. You don't know him? That's why they had the big ah the big contraption in there, because they didn't want people to recognize him as both characters. you know He's the wizard and Jeff Goldblum.
00:21:58
Speaker
So I was just looking to see if Wicked did get any Oscars for like design. And the the only Oscars they won were Best Achievement in Production Design and then Best Achievement in Costume Design.
00:22:11
Speaker
um Because it is a beautiful set. And it's it's beautiful cinematography. I swear to God if they don't win so cinematography or acting this year, i'm going to be so sad. um Just going be off when it's acting or something. Stop it. um the The sets are so good and so detailed. um And Shiz is so colorful. And um yeah, just...
00:22:41
Speaker
It's a beautiful, beautiful film. Both visually and audio-ly. And they did do a lot of practical effects too. They tried to keep a lot of things very stage-like in a lot of ways. so they could make They planted like billions of those flowers for that opening scene. They built that field. they They really tried to live in the world, not just a show us a CGI world. It's an incredible production.
00:23:09
Speaker
For sure. So we are moving along in the story and we're, you know, getting, we're <unk> kind of doing, you know, the back to school montage. Right. And our next number is the roommate number. And these girls just don't like each other. um And that brings us to what is this feeling? And it's just a really fun so montage song.
00:23:37
Speaker
um Reminds me a lot of Wednesday and Edith in that and the Wednesday Addams show too. yeah i was like they they They probably ah mimicked this, but it was just like this is perfectly like bound like the same sort of characters that are put up against each other here.
00:23:53
Speaker
yeah no i think it was great and like the split screen too of like having their facial expressions um side by side for a part of it too i thought was pretty cool um and also ah because it's a movie you it took us through it seemed like several days probably or we don't really know even weeks or months yeah Yeah, yeah. But not just in one sitting, which is kind of the effect in the stage production. So you could really see how much time was was passing. Like they're going to class, they're in the cafeteria. um
00:24:27
Speaker
And just that ability to kind of be in different places kind of throughout it, showing more of that time element, I feel like was pretty cool and added to it for sure. Yeah, it sounded great too.
00:24:40
Speaker
tell but Built that sexual tension. but Okay, and then we, um you know, we're learning about our our teachers and we're introduced to Dr. Dilliman and that the, you know, who we he pulls down the screen and there's the message that animals don't belong here. So we're kind of introduced to that arc um that's going to become a bigger deal later on.
00:25:07
Speaker
then, then um Elphaba stumbles upon this meeting and then we get the something bad. She gets a little bit more information about the animals disappearing and there's nothing beyond us. And, you know, why can't we ask the wizard? And um so this is kind of like the only, this is the most we really get to hear Dr. Dilliman, Peter Dinklage speak and a little song by him.
00:25:34
Speaker
I like how they expanded this because in the stage production, It kind of goes into it right away. So he flips the easel and we see the words and then he's like class dismissed. And then Elphaba stays behind to um help him you know clean up console him. And then it goes straight into that song. So in the movie, there's a little bit of a gap. Like she's, you know, we we see that there's a meeting with other animals. And so I really liked that as well, because I i mentioned the previous episode too. Like we don't see very many of the animals in the stage productions, mainly just Dr. Dilliman. the monkeys and the lion um from what, and the big dragon over the top that I talked about before we're like, we don't have a lot of context for that, but having kind of that kind of described it as like a little union meeting almost of the animals, I feel like really helps to, yeah, helps us understand that storyline and also how many more animals were SHI's and were professors. um
00:26:37
Speaker
Because if we were just watching the stage production, it kind of seemed like maybe Dr. Dillerman was the only one. You could kind of imply that there were more, but um again, those CGI effects really, I think were really helpful in setting, setting the stage for that in the movie.
00:26:57
Speaker
And it really gives us that reason to um feel what the animals are feeling. The reason to, you know see what, what Elphaba is feeling through these moments of, um, Something is happening bad here. I need to do something about it. I think the wizard is good and he can help us is what we see from her and start to feel her thinking he can sit fix this. I've been told he can do great things. He's the wonderful Wizard of Oz.
00:27:21
Speaker
And we start to see that, oh, he might not be here. There's something definitely going on here that he's not paying attention to. Yeah, I think having this song so close to the wizard and I like that juxtaposition of like she really does believe in the wizard and she really has that faith in him that like he's the wonderful wizard. He can do anything. He can make me not green. He can help the animals. And she has that like almost like a parental trust in him, like
00:27:55
Speaker
you know, like a little kid, like, well, that's my dad. My dad can do anything. Kind of a feeling is what I was getting from it. And so then to have it be like, there's something bad happening. And like Dr. Dylan doesn't have that kind of faith. And it's really like starting her on her journey of like questioning the wizard and like,
00:28:14
Speaker
maybe you can trust him maybe you can't but you really should think about that before you just like blindly accept what you're being told um so i think like the the timing of those things within the plot is is interesting and and important too never meet your heroes
00:28:34
Speaker
or your dad i guess for that's a whole different issue but yeah
00:28:41
Speaker
we, there's a little bit more movie, but um we're going to skip ahead to being introduced to the sexiest man alive through the song dancing through life. um And, you know, there's the moments before is Glinda finds out he's arriving and um there's the scene by like the bulletin board. um And then before that, there was a moment where he rides up and bumps into her. How could I forget with his horse? And they seem to have a really great relationship, the horse and him.
00:29:11
Speaker
i kind of want more more information about that story because he's riding a horse with like a whole saddle and everything but it's a talking horse so yeah is that you know what's going on there is that really okay with him enslaving this horse to be his uh transportation and yet we see this horse throughout the rest of the story that there's never getting any independence on what's going on there i don't know i was kind of getting like a christoph and sven vibe a little bit But it was he just waiting around for him to get out of school? He didn't have any agency of another job? Where are the animal rights activists for this character? I want want to know what his job is. Where's Ozzy and PETA?
00:29:49
Speaker
Right. yeah What's going on here? um Is the horse in the stage play? i I think so. Yeah, yeah actually, i think they do have one. um I should remember this. i Again, disclaimer, the last time I saw it was when I was 15, so over 10 years ago. um But i I believe so. Obviously, it doesn't talk. um So if there is one, that's embarrassing that I don't remember. But um if there is one, it doesn't talk. So kind of that difference in the animals. how Do you remember how el Fierro was introduced? Yeah.
00:30:23
Speaker
I was going to say that. um That it is different because that scene like where he runs into her is in front of a lot of students. And so kind of it's more of an embarrassing moment, I think, for Elphaba.
00:30:38
Speaker
Because he makes some joke about her greenness, again. And it's in front of everyone. Everybody laughs. um And yeah and then it kind of has... There's more animosity, I guess, between them. um because it was more of a public embarrassment versus like them meeting in the woods by themselves which i mean love that for the romance part that that like public introduction is gonna be more in line with the books in the book fiero like well like he's he's a prince but like the prince of like
00:31:16
Speaker
a backwater civilization basically like the they're widely disrespected and thought of as like second class citizens within oz the winkies um and so he like even though he's like the prince of the winkies it's not like wow like he's a super hot prince and like we should all like you know you're he's not like a prince that people are trying to win you know, in the in that, like, you know, kind of Disney sense where, like, you're trying to win the the prince's heart. um But he, like, comes into class late and then there's no seats. And then he just is, like, standing there in the corner because he can't, like, get to his seat. And it, like, that's the first time that we meet Fierro. And it is, he doesn't, I don't think he interacts directly with Elphaba or Glinda or anybody else in that moment.
00:32:06
Speaker
But like his first introduction is him like being publicly humiliated in front of everybody on accident. And so like that would be more in line with that stage production introduction versus here. It's like he gets the big like parade announcement type deal where he's like, oh, it's a prince and come pay attention and bat your eyelashes and try to get his attention. so that is not that's a new thing.
00:32:35
Speaker
And I looked it up. The print the ah horse is in is an offstage character in the play, um as whereas in the movie he gets that a little bit of screen time. But he's just mentioned a couple times in the play.
00:32:48
Speaker
ah I did hear that it's the same horse from Bridgerton. I don't know if that's... ah i Yeah, I heard that too. I knew that horse could talk. Did he buy it? Isn't that his horse now?
00:32:59
Speaker
I think so, yeah. this person Yeah, you guys can paint him blue for the movie. It's fine. A horse of a different color. Yeah.
00:33:10
Speaker
That is cool. That's an actor and getting the horse to get to play that again. ah Another role. I mean, that's that's a, um, maybe the horse will get an Oscar. yeah Yeah, as you should.
00:33:22
Speaker
Okay, so um Dancing Through Life takes us to the Asda's dance and Elphaba goes to Madame Marvel for the wand to give to Glinda because she told Bach to ask Vanessa Rose to the dance um and she comes to the dance with the ugly hat we have a very emotional moment and then we go back to their room and we get the song popular um but what um Abby was the Oz Dust scene like on the stage and how did that compare to what we see on screen Yeah, um I think there was a little bit of difference. um We kind of got the idea that it was like illegal place to be. um
00:34:13
Speaker
But it was it was a little fuzzy. I feel like it was maybe a little fuzzy in the movie, too. um like maybe just because they're under age i don't really know um but i i do have this like distinct memory from the stage production they have these like two big like it almost looks like they're jars of sand that like kind of come down from the ceiling i don't really know why that just always sticks in my head um kind of It's like a different location. I don't know. But I think what I really loved about both is kind of those big ensemble dance numbers kind of in in both. um Like, it's pretty cool. It's just it's fun to see. Like, and again, in the movie, you can see it more from different angles and and everything like that. Yeah.
00:34:58
Speaker
And so i think a difference in the movie is that I keep bringing it up, but the facial expressions like you can really see their relationship, Alphaba and Glenda's relationship, Galinda at the time, relationship developing like through that through that song and their dance that they have um versus in the stage production, you kind of understand what's going on. But um Like you can kind of like visually see Gullinda shift um and like kind of see her and through different eyes almost. It through that dance and also having that appreciation from um talking to Madame Marble and everything. Like if i remember correctly, I don't think Madame Marble actually comes. Yeah.
00:35:45
Speaker
there, um i think it's kind of portrayed in a different way. So overall, I think it was beautiful. i We definitely see more animals there too in in the movie, like playing the instruments. um And it seemed to all be like the help, though. And like, like, it seemed like another reference to racial problems or things like that in some way. It's true. It kind of gave me the vibe of I didn't want in in the Little Mermaid, like, you know, where it's like music isn't allowed. And then they kind of all go into this underground. You know, what that that's when everyone's like playing music and then I don't think it's... i think it's It's a prequel. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It came out third, but it's the Little Mermaid prequel. It's Aria's beginning. it kind of gave you that same vibe because you kind of get the idea that they're underwater kind of too. um But yeah, I mentioned the previous episode too. Like I cry every time when I see that. The unscripted moment where Elphaba has the tears and...
00:36:47
Speaker
Yeah, just like seeing their bond established in that way. like I think they expanded on that really well in the movie. Yeah, that moment is really emotional from for both the characters and for everybody watching because it's a moment that Elthwa gets a little bit of acceptance because Glida chose to step out and make a choice to say, i have to i have to become friends with her. I have to give her the benefit of the doubt. I have to actually um try with this friendship here, this relationship here. She put her neck out for me. I have to put my neck out for her.
00:37:19
Speaker
And I mean, other than the wanted destruction of books at the beginning, um i think that the whole dancing through life is a lot of fun ah and definitely ah all the filming and the way they did all that.
00:37:33
Speaker
Absolutely amazing. Absolutely well done. Yeah, incredible choreography. And they got parkour performers. Yeah, choreography. all Yeah, I mean, incredible. Yeah, what a crazy thing.
00:37:43
Speaker
So I really, really, really loved all that and the way they did that. it's Also, Elthaba's moment of, you know, Iron Man 3 moment of, I had just created demons. You know, she created Bach's first interaction with Neza Rose. She created...
00:37:57
Speaker
um the ah relationship dynamic that she was shooting for with ah with Fierro. You know, it's it's her her moment of being the villain of the story a little bit at that point. Oh, yeah. One thing, too, that I understood a little bit more when I watched the movie versus the stage production. so in the stage production, when Bach is, you know, Like, Nessa gets to like, she confess her and then they start dancing and everything. Like, I kind of was under the impression that maybe Bach was a little bit interested in her. Like, yes, obviously he was in love with Glinda, but I thought like maybe there was something drawing him to Nessa a little bit more than just like that obligation. But in the movie, you could really see, especially when it's like, because, and then he turns and looks at Glinda, like making out with Fiyero.
00:38:44
Speaker
like you can see it a little bit more that he really was not interested in her so i thought that was interesting because it made things make more sense like later on like when he ends up being like i have to go confess my love to glinda and everything like that makes more sense in the movie um versus in the stage production i was like oh i kind of thought you liked her a little bit but Not really at all. So that could have been me like reading it reading it wrong in the stage production too. But i think it was helpful to kind of get that context for what we see later.
00:39:17
Speaker
When I go back to the beginning of Dancing Through Life a little bit, I noticed there was a lyric. change or like the interlude change and then like our conversation about like what type of place the Oz Dust Ballroom is because I noticed in the Broadway soundtrack that's out he asks Galinda what's the most swinkified place in town like where should we go if we want to like have a good time and do something and And she says, oh, we should go to the Oz Dust Ballroom. Like, that's that's the place to go. Versus in the movie, he just says, let's go to the Oz Dust Ballroom. Like, he already knows about this place. He, like, it's his idea to go there. and so I think that, like, it's interesting that he just got here, but he already knows about this place. But B, like, because he and Elphaba end up aligned on, like,
00:40:12
Speaker
their politics regarding the animals and the treatment of animals by the end of the story. Like him wanting to go to like a quote unquote illicit place like that where there are animals all over and like working there and like part of the environment.
00:40:28
Speaker
kind of is an interesting choice to have him like wanting to go there versus being told that or have it be suggested to him. um And then again, like for me, having previously only listened to the soundtrack, the whole dance scene between Elphaba and Glinda never got that so I was sitting there super confused last year the first time I saw it like what are they doing this dance is weird why is this happening like I was very re-watching it like I get it and it like is very emotional and very like brave of Galinda to go out there in that moment when and like put her reputation out on the line um and so it is very a very special moment but the first time I saw I was like what is this right now why are we doing this the dance threw my wife off a little bit because it was a little bit um like they she didn't understand why what what was it about this dance that like did did does everybody know this dance is it a cultural dance is this the macarena what is she doing here yeah yeah yeah and in the stage production too like or in the
00:41:32
Speaker
In the soundtrack, they do cut out, like there is more of a musical interlude um that we see on stage, but it's not as long and you don't really get as much of the significance in that. So it does break and like when they, you know, edit it and put it all together, they cut that out. And I believe on the the movie soundtrack, they do have like a separate track for that part of it. But yeah, definitely more clear, i would say, on like the significance of that, of that dance in the movie.
00:42:03
Speaker
I think there is a small conversation between Fiero and Glinda about where is the best part, but I think it's before the song starts. yeah Because I had noticed that on my most recent rewatch of Wicked before going to see For Good, because and and that that stood out to me on the last rewatch. But I think it happens before the song. How do you just ask another student? I think he just, like as he's walking around, he says, hey, what's the best place to go around here? It's very subtle, very small i remember. Yeah.
00:42:32
Speaker
And I think Linda's like, ah isn't that illegal or like somewhat illegal or something like that? Yeah. Yeah. It's something like that. but are you guys ready to move on to popular?
00:42:43
Speaker
Always. So yeah, thoughts on popular? I can't believe they almost ruined this song. I heard an internet rumor that they wanted to like, somebody suggested that they should change the style of the song to be more like one of Ariana's like pop songs. And she she was like, no, don't do that. Like, just leave it how it is. Like, we shouldn't change it. And I'm like, thank God that she did that because Like, again, somebody who doesn't have experience, doesn't have any attachment. Like, I know Popular. I know that song. I know that it's from Wicked. It's one of those, like, iconic things about Wicked that even if you don't know anything, you know about that. And so to, ah like, take something so fundamental to the to the property and change it, I think would have been a huge mistake. Even if, you know, somebody as talented as Ariana is going to be the one singing it, like, it just would have been a bad choice. So glad she saved it.
00:43:39
Speaker
It had also gotten so popular, so big as a, and popular as a, uh, TikTok audio and all those things that people were doing it long before the movie came out, which was giving the, the, um, film production of it such a large, uh, boost even before that happened. So that was, would have really messed with people if they had completely changed the song. So yeah, I'm glad they didn't. It was well done.
00:44:02
Speaker
Props to Ariana for sure. I saw the same article or whatever or interview where she was like, no, I am Glinda. I'm not Ariana Grande playing Glinda. That she like just really had a lot of respect for the role. And that... Because I was skeptical too when I heard that she was going to be cast for it. Like, ooh. But just showing how much she cared and like she took extra vocal lessons to kind of expand her brain and her style and everything so that she could really...
00:44:31
Speaker
just like nail that that Broadway delivering everything. I thought that was really great. And yeah, that's iconic scene. I love how they did it too. And all the kind of little contraptions that she had in her room and just really showing, i think the difference in class too. And um yeah, it was really interesting. And that had a little nod to the the right the copyrighted um Ruby slippers when she like clicked them together um because she had ah a pair of red heels or something. and That was cute. hat happening before the ball was a big part of her identity too that we um i see a little more in this scene and through the Oz desk but the the black hat being her gift from her was is an interesting moment yeah and that happens in the in the stage production too which is which is great but I think it
00:45:23
Speaker
ah having her two little henchmen sidekicks, like being involved in the conversation. um And in the stage production too, I don't remember if they actually had names. So having them have a a bigger role and again, be a part of the conversation.
00:45:39
Speaker
was interesting i think added some depth there song was great i love to again not to get too nerdy on the musical part of it um but like at the end there's two key changes um between her la la part right and so initially i was like thrown off like what are they doing what is that um but i love how they did it and i think steven towards even said it was something that he wanted to do in the original too and so that was like a way that um you got to do it in this way. So I was like, okay, okay. Like, but it works really well. Um, so yeah, beautiful. And, and then she just screams at the end off camera and we're like, what is, what is happening? What just happened? Did she fall? What's happening?
00:46:20
Speaker
All right. Let's um go to I'm not that girl next. Cause we are already at 47 minutes. um And we're not even done part one. So what did you think of I'm not that girl? our, yeah. Lightning round.
00:46:42
Speaker
Lightning round. We'll start speed running this. I mean, we could just skip ahead to defying gravity. Yeah. I mean, I'm always skipping ahead to Defying Gravity, but I know there's a good to You've got to hold space for it, you know. Yes.
00:46:57
Speaker
Not That Girl's Good. It gives a little bit of ah a view of how she views herself at that point and how she would like to be the person who could be with Fierro, but she doesn't think she's good enough and that she's the one for that moment. So it definitely has some depth, but it ultimately is not my favorite song of the movie or anything. just It kind of just brings the plot forward a little bit.
00:47:19
Speaker
I'll try to condense my yapping a little bit. um I really like the song, like as a, again, like a music nerd and like I have so sung this song like at music, like competitions and things like this and other ones because they, yeah. So it's great. They changed the key, which normally really would bother me, but it sounds great.
00:47:40
Speaker
I think, you know, like with the reprise in part two, i think it's great. A lot of musical themes that just keep repeating themselves throughout. Um, which for a music nerd like myself, it's really cool to see see the see that. So good song.
00:47:55
Speaker
I'll keep my comments to a minimum. Fair enough. I'll just really quickly say I'm Not That Girl with something that was a song that like really stuck with me when I was 19 years old. And I was like struggling with like my own like self-worth and like self-esteem. And so like having a character like go through exactly what I felt like I was going through at the time um was really powerful. And so I think it's like.
00:48:23
Speaker
portraying that like teenage emotion of like seeing something seeing a person that you want and them going for somebody who you see as better than yourself um it's really really a powerful song from that perspective and so I think it's like I'm really appreciative that it is included because I think it would have been a an easy one to kind of omit and so I'm glad that it's there Okay, so our girls go off to Oz. The Wizard has invited Elphaba, and Glinda goes with her.
00:48:59
Speaker
And we get the songs One Short Day, and we get Sentimental Man. And of course, One Short Day does have the cameos of Andina and Kristen, and then Sentimental Man,
00:49:11
Speaker
And then all of that will lead us into finale of part one. But is there anything you'd like to talk about those two songs and numbers before we move on to um something I'm sure we'll talk a lot about? Plot wise, I'll just say, I think the addition of like the Emerald City players was helpful um and kind of giving some backstory on the groomery because in the stage production, they're,
00:49:36
Speaker
You know, there's some explanation of it, um but it's kind of like when it appears the first time is kind of all we get. um is so You can pick up on it and understand like the significance a little bit, but I think it was cool to see more like in the world like what the significance of it was. and Obviously, love the cameos by the originals. I think it was funny. I mean, I know it could have been a little bit distracting, but honestly, we I loved it. wouldn't have treated that. so um And then the sentimental man...
00:50:06
Speaker
You know, we touched on Jeff Goldblum's like singing a little bit in the previous. So doesn't like add or like take away like too much, like plot wise, but interesting little nod to like, you know, each citizen as a son or daughter, like makes me feel parental. And like, again, like he doesn't know that Alphaba is his daughter at that point, but just kind of fun things for the audience audience to pay attention to. Mm-hmm.
00:50:35
Speaker
I love One Short Day. I think it's such a fun song. And i've i found myself listening to that one just when it gets stuck in my head regularly. so and I think the whole thing just leads you through Oz and shows you this new area that is totally different than everything else we've seen and is totally makes no sense in some areas. And yet people are, you know, the people of Oz live there and that's what they do. I guess a lot of fun.
00:50:57
Speaker
And also how like this greenness like doesn't stick out as much there. Right. Yeah. You would think it would be the point you'd want to be in that in the Emerald City. She could have became the regular that everybody's trying to look like if it had gone differently and not been propagan or not been turned against her.
00:51:13
Speaker
Nothing more to add, really. i Yeah, I think they're both they're fun. They're fun little expositions. and The Grimmery, it's not common knowledge.
00:51:27
Speaker
In the book, it's like hidden away in Firo's family castle and it was given to them by a wandering traveler, the same kind of wandering traveler that Elphaba's mom likes to make friends with. And so it again, get kind of get that implication of like,
00:51:45
Speaker
who the book belongs to I think the exposition is nice because then all of a sudden like Madame Morrible comes in and the wizard comes in and they're talking about the grimmery and you know can you read it can you do spells and if you don't have that exposition in one short day then it's gonna get a little confusing so it's served its purpose as well And that book element of not knowing where, how I got there goes on throughout the next few books. So you don't, it's, it continues to be a question that is not really necessary to film at all.
00:52:18
Speaker
All right, then we are brought to the grand finale of Act One, um which is Defying Gravity. And then we have to wait a whole year before getting for good. But I know that there was some stuff added and there's some a little bit of changes. So Abby, I look forward to hearing your thoughts on this number.
00:52:39
Speaker
Yeah, like the whole um scene with the hot air balloon, like when they're trying to escape and get out, like that was new. So I thought that that added more screen time, obviously, but kind of interesting to see the balloon again, like earlier, because otherwise we don't really see it.
00:52:55
Speaker
And yeah there's that one added line where it she's like, it's me. It's like, ooh, that's different. That's something. um But I do like how they added like that, um the unlimited kind of piece where she's like flying through the clouds and everything like I think that kind of brings back a theme from the previous songs. And I've, I've heard people say like, it's distracting. Like when Madame Marble is like making her announcements, like in the, and in the middle of um the song, but that is how it happens in the stage production too. And like, obviously when we're listening to the soundtrack, like we don't have all that, but I, I think that is, they did it really well. Like I,
00:53:39
Speaker
You know, how she changed the like, iconic riff ah riff at the end is, like, not, like, my favorite, personally, but she did it well. But, yeah, I'm sure more thoughts will come up as you guys talk, but... I think they did they did well um at it.
00:53:55
Speaker
Do all of the Elphaba's... change that rift at the end? Like, do they all make it their own? Or they usually do in Dinas? I think for the most part in the productions I've seen, they kept it pretty similar. Or if anything, maybe they changed like one note.
00:54:13
Speaker
But I think she she added, like, a whole thing in there. um But i I definitely remember, like, watching it live. And, like, anytime they change it, it's like, oh, okay. ah um And so that's just one of those things. It's hard to, you know, should if you keep it exactly the same, it's like, you know, you're going to get people being like, oh, you just copied it. But then if you change you're going be like, oh, you changed it. So you can't, like, please everyone with it. Sure. Yeah.
00:54:42
Speaker
you know I think obviously she's very Cynthia is very talented, so pulled it off. I like the inclusion of the little like reflection of baby Elphaba as she's falling. and like Again, I think it speaks to like like a sense of like womanhood and like who like just as a woman trying to find your way in the world and who you are. and like There's like the...
00:55:07
Speaker
like the thought of like your inner child and like the the child version of yourself that you're constantly trying to heal and care for. um and so I thought that that like visual representation of that and like I remember how I was treated as a child and like how I let other people treat me and I'm not going to do that anymore. I'm going to be unlimited. I'm going to fly. and I'm going you know, stand up for myself and do what I know is right even though it's hard and I'm going to do it for that little girl that was made fun of and teased and made to feel less than an other when she couldn't protect herself. I can protect her now and I can you know i can do the right thing now. um So I thought that, like I don't know if they like tried to touch on that at all in the stage production, if that would be even able to like come across in that medium, but I thought it was a really...
00:55:58
Speaker
good choice to include that. I think it would have been fine without it, but I think the fact that they included it was really sweet. Yeah, there wasn't really anything like that in the stage production. And even in that scene, like it's mostly Alphaba and Glinda. I think right at the end, you kind of get some of the guards barging in. Um, but right kind of at the, the bridge section is where she starts flying. Um, and then, uh, one thing that is different is like right after she does that iconic riff to riff at the end, I keep saying riff, it's riff. Um, like it just cuts to black and then it's intermission. Um,
00:56:38
Speaker
But then in the movie, there's kind of a little sequence of her like flying around and then the chorus does something else. So it kind of extends it a little bit. So I feel like it loses a little bit of its like power with that. um But I do think it's helpful to see like it kind of is foreshadowing like she's going off into, you know, the wilderness and like going off on her own and everything like that. So I i get it. um Yeah, but that is a little bit different.
00:57:07
Speaker
The um young Alphaba scene reminded me a lot of Guardians of the Galaxy, you know, Peter take my hand sort of moment of that felt it's the same like everything emotional part of it you said was kind of what Peter was feeling in that moment too. So I see that kind of a little bit too of him him try getting over that trauma. um But I really i enjoyed seeing that. And then you get the broom. And you know the whole thing is a very powerful song that everybody takes a little bit of different something from and definitely is the pinnacle of the emotion you feel in this ah media in this ah film. And I really loved every bit of it. It was definitely on my on repeat list of, you know, everything I was going through at the time, everything that came up, it definitely had a lot of impact for me and definitely my cry song for a few days where I just was like, this is definitely a strong emotional song that I need to get out and loved it. All right. And that is the end of act one. And the beginning of act two opens up with every day, more wicked.
00:58:11
Speaker
Yeah, so this is one that they split. So in the stage production, that's kind of all like Every Day More Wicked and then Thank Goodness and Couldn't Be Happier are kind of all one song and they all happen like right after one another. And so having it be kind of a separate track adds for, I guess, more screen time, more... more them for it's for them to show like kind of what's happened in the last year. and so I think that was a good choice in that adaptation. So we kind of see a little bit more of the context, but that is one thing that was different, like in the stage production, it's like,
00:58:48
Speaker
oh, they the townspeople are mad and oh they're engaged and oh, like it all just happened so quickly. So and it's kind of harder to get an idea of like how much time has passed. Like I remember after we saw part one, Jordan was like, so how much time passed? And I was like, actually, i don't know. um Like I should know that. And so I think it was kind of helpful to expand on all those components a little bit more rather than having it so cramped.
00:59:14
Speaker
Even throughout for good, my wife was struggling with the pacing of like, wait, how much time has passed here? What's happened here? Why are we, are we jumping forward? It was, it has a lot of pacing issues with the timeframe that you're in, but I just let, I can let that go. I don't care about the time. I just wanted to see the move, the story move forward. And I do think that one of the complaints of For Good is that it feels a little rushed. And like it's not – I think having a little bit more like even half an hour and fleshing out kind of those timelines would have been nice. Could helpful. I
00:59:45
Speaker
remove Yeah. um Is there anything else you guys want to talk about those first two songs before we get into our first of the new songs? I'll just comment. I like how they almost had like time stop a little bit for Glenda when she's singing the i couldn't be happier part like the I was trying to pay attention to it but looked like some of the characters were still moving a little bit, but like all the confetti was like suspended in the air. So that was kind of interesting how you kind of got the idea that she was like singing it to herself, but then it kind of transitioned back into... like her singing to the crowd. Okay. I'm going to have to pay attention to that next time because I, like when I heard the song, I i thought that. I'm like, she, like if years left, she says, oh, he's getting me a drink. And then she sings to herself. But then in the movie, she's still on stage and she's at the microphone. And I'm like, this is weird, but I'm going to pay attention to the confetti being stopped because that makes so much more sense that she, time is stopped and she's singing. I thought it was like, like in a a Shakespearean aside,
01:00:50
Speaker
where like that's like part of like the structure of a play is a character will like talk to themselves or talk directly to the audience while everybody else around them is frozen. So that's how I thought of it because i also noticed the confetti being frozen and then like people like the background noise fades away and like everybody kind of stands in in their spot and they freeze in place. And so I was like, oh, she's having an aside moment where she's singing to herself and like, this is a not what I expected and it's complicated. And she's she's singing that portion of it to herself. And then she's like, nope, you're on stage. You got to snap back into it. And like, thank goodness. And she's like, and everything's fine. um Everything is fine. i'm fine.
01:01:30
Speaker
trying to convince herself that everything is funny without her best friend and everybody else. Yeah, it's really... Yeah, and like, you know, i stopped... I'm a public figure now. Yeah, exactly. And like flashing forward a little bit to like Fierro like choosing Elphaba, like I feel like that foreshadowing of that was happening even here in that, like when they step off stage and they're talking and I'm like, girl, you're delusional. like You're deluding yourself. Like he's he's not...
01:01:58
Speaker
he's not outright saying that he doesn't love her, but he's also not saying that he does love her either. And so for her to like, you know, no, he loves me. He loves, he's choosing me. He, what he wants this. It is going to make him happy. It's like, well, that's not what he said though. And so like, i I wanted to feel bad for her and Ariana did a great job of portraying her heartbreak but I also was like girl like you you kind of did this to yourself a little bit because you like allowed yourself to live in that delusion a little bit and it started in this number.
01:02:29
Speaker
Yeah, and that aside part, like where they kind of go behind the stage and have that conversation, like, but we don't get that in the stage production either. So I appreciate how, you know, that line where he's like, oh, yeah, I'm always happy, you know, that or something. I think, yeah, that was interesting. Added more more depth to it because you don't really get that. state Again, it's like one continuous conversation.
01:02:52
Speaker
song. There's not a lot of time for to see the reactions or anything or that internal dialogue with Fiero too. And another reason why ah I feel like it seems a little bit more drastic of a shift like when he ends up choosing Elphaba, like you kind of see it coming. But you again, you don't get that much about what's going on in Fiero's head at the time. So I appreciate that addition.
01:03:17
Speaker
So Abby, what did you think of No Place Like Home? I think it was i think it was good. um And that whole sequence like with the animals, again, we don't get anything like that um in the stage production. like Very little animal representation, I guess. But that, I think, it adds something, again, a little bit more to that picture of like the the political landscape. like With the animals, they have to flee. and then we kind of get I think that's where we get that.
01:03:45
Speaker
um that kind of foreshadowing of like Elphaba and Fierro like walking in the land beyond Oz or whatever. So I think it was good. Like I i had told Jordan, like I know the other songs are so iconic and like when you add other music like that and like the Girl in the Bubble, like that, you know.
01:04:01
Speaker
it's hard to like reach that level. um And so like for me, it wasn't like super memorable, like musically. But again, I haven't like, we just saw part two last night. So I haven't like gone through and listened to everything again. so definitely want to analyze that a little bit more. But I think like the, with the content of the song, I think it's helpful.
01:04:24
Speaker
I think it's ah it's helpful to kind of add to that, like political landscape, like I said, and then you see Dulcey bear again too. So that's, um, a nice tie-in. So then our next big scene is Bach turning into the Tin Man, and the song is The Wicked Witch of the East. It's a quick little tune, but very emotional.
01:04:46
Speaker
And how did that translate from stage to screen, Abby? Yeah, I first of all love that they actually have it in the soundtrack for this time, because that's one that we i had. ah I definitely remember having a ah a version that maybe I wasn't supposed to have that I had on my iTunes account um before this. And so like you hear the audience laughing and everything. Yeah. um So.
01:05:11
Speaker
um So I love that we have that. and they definitely expanded this as well. And that sequence like with Bach, like attempting to leave and then he can't go because of the travel ban that she just instates like that's all new in the stage production. It's all of that kind of happens at the same time. Like she he is talking to her. he i think he goes to get something and then Elphaba comes in They have their little conversation. she does the spell in the stage production as it starts walking. And then Bach comes in and then sees that whole thing and then is like, oh, well, now you don't need me, so I'm going to go. And so, yeah, in the movie, it expands on that a little bit more. Like he actually leaves and then comes back, like see that he can't go anywhere. So I think that adds to kind of like that dictatorship that Nessa Rose had with the Munchkin land, because we don't really see what she's doing that makes her so hated in the in the state production. Like you kind of get an idea because she's keeping back there against his will.
01:06:15
Speaker
But yeah, I think that added to it. And then i think in the previous episode, we touched a little bit on, you know, the floating versus walking. So I won't go too much into that again. But yeah, I think they did really well. Like the Tin Man chain transformation, I think it looked really good. You know, I mean, it looked good in the stage production too. But again, i you're super far away from it. So they didn't really have to do too much with that. But Yeah, I think it's it's good. that's I think where it takes like a darker turn, for sure, plot-wise, where it's like, oh, yeah, he is not himself anymore. and Then they added that, like him chopping through the door and everything. So it was intense, for sure.
01:06:54
Speaker
It was a pretty intense scene. Yeah. In the book, they do go into more of the um the reason why Nesse is considered such a wicked ah ruler and everything. Yeah. I don't remember exactly what the details were, but she was just being very cruel to the people of her, ah of her territory that she was over, which um based on the way that the rights of, um of ruling that area goes actually should have been a Althaba's posting to, it passes down from the mother to the daughters. And um her grandfather had taken, had gotten it when somebody it's, it's got a whole lineage of goes through all that in the book, but yeah,
01:07:35
Speaker
technically should have belonged to Elphaba in the first place. so it's interesting. I think it's an interesting contrast that we see too. And like the reaction of Nessa to, Bach slash the Tin Man versus Elphaba to Fiero and like his transformation. Because Nessa was obviously obsessed with Bach and love with him, but then you can see like the horror that she has like out of his transformation, which like I have that same reaction as well, so I get it. Versus like you know when Elphaba, obviously, in that it was saving both of their lives too with both of those spells, but the reaction was very different. And it's like, you're beautiful. um and everything.
01:08:17
Speaker
Also, Fierro's reaction too. Fierro accepted it as, you did this to save me and I'm so happy. She made him immortal, whereas, you know, Bach was saved from dying of his heart and yeah yeah being removed. so I get where Bach's coming from, though, because like Fierro chose to put his life in danger for Elphaba and then she chose to save him versus Bach didn't want to be there he tried to leave and Tressa Rose like forced him to stay and then said you know her line I don't remember the exact quote she's like you know like you can't give your heart to Glinda you can't give your heart to anybody like I'm gonna take it and then he's like oh my god my heart's shrinking and then Elphaba has to try to save him so like I definitely get, Bach didn't want any part of that. He did not want to be here. He he did not want to be part of this narrative and he was forced to be here every step of the way. and so like, I ah definitely, even though yes, Elphaba did save his life, i I do understand like why he has that anger towards her. i wish it was more directed towards Nessa because it's really her fault. He did have a little bit of ownership. He should have taken in like you know the fact that he stuck around as long as he did, too. He didn't wasn't honest with her from the beginning, so it know was a little bit his own fault, and that's you know where he gets his consequences and has to live with him. Absolutely. person who should be having the least amount of blame was Elphaba, and somehow –
01:09:39
Speaker
she Everywhere in the story. Everywhere in the story, she is blameless or like not as bad as somebody else, and she still just keeps taking short the stick. She's just human. Yeah. and' so But I guess that's the point of the story is you know you have a predisposition to thinking badly of somebody. based on something they can't control. And then when they do take an action, if it's not absolutely your idea of perfect, you continue to villainize them. And so that's that's probably the greater lesson that we should all be taking from this.
01:10:12
Speaker
Which is wrapped up in like the first line of the whole thing. Are people born wicked or do they have wickedness thrust upon them? you know That misquoting of a presidential statement, I think. yeah I do think it's funny in both the stage production and the movie how when Nessa starts reading the grimmery, it's like...
01:10:27
Speaker
girl, you like Elphaba, you could totally just rip that thing away from her. Like, no problem. Like, it's not like she'd be but respectfully like fight back that much. So I just thought that was funny. and like, there's so much time in there between her getting to the couch and like, I'm like, you could have avoided it, but then we wouldn't have a what we have. So.
01:10:48
Speaker
a plot, right. You'd have a whole different problem with people like, you can't take a book away from the disabled girl. Exactly. In the comments, you know. Okay, for the sake of time, we're going to skip ahead um because we did already talk about wonderful in the last episode and adding Ariana. we're going to skip that. um So this is all, you know, Glinda in the movie and the wizard are convincing Elphaba to come back to quote their side. and let's Let's start over. And then this is where...
01:11:24
Speaker
Fierro leaves Glinda and goes with Elphaba. He turns the gun on the wizard. um Ariana gets a reprise of I'm Not That Girl. And then we get As Long As You're Mine.
01:11:38
Speaker
Not to skip to As Long As You're Mine, but that's like my favorite song from the entire, like part one and part two. let tell us about it. I just musically love it too. And definitely left us wanting more, I'll say, in the movie, in the in the stage production as well. Like, it's kind of awkward because they're just kind of like on the floor, like singing to each other like there's not a lot of movement going on like it's still great we love it but um and then they it ends with like them kissing and then it like goes yeah it's like ah i feel wicked blah blah and then yeah
01:12:12
Speaker
Kind of love that we like see them like walking around each other. We kind of get more of that. like You see how much um that Fiero actually does care about her and kind of like in a different way. Whereas it feels a little bit jarring in the stage production. Again, love it. Here for it. But we see that progression a little bit more.
01:12:31
Speaker
People are definitely obsessed with that those cardigans of hers. that scene that yeah The fixation point of the of that scene for most people. yeah Those sexy cardigans, apparently. A new product of the summer, or the winter.
01:12:45
Speaker
Right. <unk> So funny. but I thought the scene was really good. I thought that they did a good job of showing enough, but not showing ah enough to make it you know too graphic or anything. It was a tasteful way to um give us the impression that they are ah moving forward the relationship, but without needing to be anything explicit or anything. Totally. Mostly PG. Very different from the book, as I've gathered. yeah. I told my husband, i was like, I don't, know because I saw it first with a group of girlfriends and then we took the family and I was like, I mean, there is kind of a sex scene, but you don't see anything. And then after the movie, he was like, the sex scene from the first movie was worse than the sex scene. Like the the mother and the wizard was like way more intimate than anything we saw between Fierro and Alpha Blastner. I think like,
01:13:34
Speaker
for me, the different, like the tone of the song being different. I forgot how graphic the first scene is between the mom and the wizard because the song is more like upbeat and like fun. And you're like, oh yeah, um you're more like dancing to the music than like paying attention to what's happening or like it's easy to do that versus this is like the song is like sultry and sexy and slow. And like you're there taking their time talking to each other and expressing their love and their deep affection and their respect for each other. and so it like that part feels more intimate because they have that deeper connection to each other. and so I just think it like it depends on your individual interpretation of what is
01:14:20
Speaker
more intimate or more graphic and what makes you like feel more. Cause like I, like I said, I didn't really think that the first scene was that graphic until you talked it until you said it. And I was like, Oh my God. Yeah. it' It is way worse. Like, Oh, like there's a lot happening there, but I didn't even think of it. Cause I'm like, yeah, like my dark eyed beauty and you know, like you're not, it's not the focus versus the scene is dedicated to them having that intimacy and having that moment together for the first time. i know Jonathan Bailey took his shirt off and I don't think anybody else heard the song after that in the film. so Well, I certainly didn't. So I had to listen to it later. i think that was after the song ended, which was a smart move because we wouldn't have heard it. So I don't know what the dialogue was at that point. So like, I'll have to rewatch that.
01:15:05
Speaker
ah It seemed kind of important. Like they were maybe planning the escape or something, but like I was not there at all. ah you the The line about how I have a castle you can stay in. It was pretty great. And then she's like, where do you live? Oh, the other castle. was great Now that you say that, that makes so much sense. Because one thing that I was wondering, like after seeing part two was like, where did this castle come from? like...
01:15:30
Speaker
She was staying like in this tree in the wilderness. And then all of a sudden now she has this with the trap doors and that everything. So that clears it up. Yeah. It can't. Yeah. That trap door was very, very helpful to her. Where does she go in the stage production? um a for, well, it,
01:15:46
Speaker
You can't really tell because there's not a lot of like set that I recall. And again, maybe I was too focused on the song and what they were doing, but I don't remember there being anything like specific, like any kind of landmark, like identifying like where they were like, you're probably supposed to pull your knowledge of the wizard of Oz a little bit. Right. right now At least in the, as long as your mind part. And then when it skips to, um, yeah, exactly. When it skips to kind of like the, Dorothy and the water um and like the for good part of it. um
01:16:20
Speaker
Like, yeah, it's kind of relying on that part. And like they have that part behind it not to skip ahead, but like they have everything behind a sheet. So you kind of get the silhouette of like Dorothy throwing the water on Elphaba and then she kind of sinks down and you get some smoke. So I did like how they have that in the movie, how you didn't actually see it, but it was like shadows. So that was a nice little nod to that as well. And also like, it's still kind of fuzzy. Like how did that even happen in the first place? But I guess the location is not super clear. Like you kind of are...
01:16:51
Speaker
you know I, but again, was picturing the Wizard Oz in my head, too, and where the flying monkeys around, and like that's kind of her lair and everything. Well, while we're speaking of her lair and the visualization of it, let's skip ahead to No Good Deed. So we... um Sister dies, Glinda and Elphaba have a little kefluffle, and then the the the soldiers come, but Fierro comes and saves her, and that's when they take Fierro away, and Correct me if I'm wrong, Abby, but...
01:17:22
Speaker
Stage production, both Figueroa is Elphaba, but in the movie, the first Figueroa is Glinda. Yeah, I noticed that as well, which I kind of liked It um it definitely, it was different because I was like, oh, does that mean Elphaba's going to say it again? But it kind of makes sense as like, you know, again, it shows how much Glinda actually did care for him. And I kind of, I don't even remember.
01:17:47
Speaker
She might have been there, but it wasn't super memorable. Like her even seeing Glinda all of that happening or she was like she was not the focal point of that scene in the stage production and yeah I mean obviously she was there because he pointed the gun at her and stuff so i I think that added a little bit more to that like how much she actually did care for him and everything yeah that's one of my favorite songs as well from from the whole thing yeah no good deeds is probably my favorite um from the whole soundtrack yeah
01:18:20
Speaker
i I wasn't as emotional as I thought I was going to be in the movie either time. I've seen it twice as Adina gets me. um I thought because I mean, Adina's version, i cry almost all the time. It's so good and it gets me so fired up. And so I thought that I was just going to ball. But one thing I will say is Cynthia's voice like breaks it and one of the notes and it's a very emotional note and that does get me a little choked up because it's like it's such a like the emotion coming through and like her voice cracks and i i I don't know if it like was meant to or she did it and they kept it but it's really really great and of course the cinematography and the CGI and the set and everything during this number is just amazing Yeah, I love how you can see like when she's like Nessa, Dr. Dillamond and then fear. Yes. How you can actually see it like that was really cool um to like have that visual representation and to see like, you know, kind of what fear was going through. um Because that was a bit downplayed, I would say, in in the stage production. And maybe to keep it a little bit more kid friendly too. But you don't, I don't think I really got the impact of like, no, he was like gonna die. You know, if that didn't happen, um like I definitely got that way more from, from the movie.
01:19:45
Speaker
good Any other thoughts on no good deed before we move on? I think it was great. I loved it. It was definitely um a great way to show the emotions that she was feeling at the time and that she is realizing that I can try all I want to be good, but it seems like everybody just wants me to be wicked. So that's what I'm going to be. and No good deeds going to be good enough. So I might as well be what everybody thinks. Glenda's just portrayed Fiero has died. So she's like, what else is there?
01:20:14
Speaker
I think it's cool though because we don't, she, I don't think she actually really does what she says she's going to do. In that, it's just kind of like her, um ah like a snapshot of how she was feeling in that moment. But like, sure, we do see, again, for good comes after that. Right. And like they they forgive each other and and all of that. um and Well, she is kind of mean to Dorothy. True.
01:20:36
Speaker
Well, in the stage production, I feel like that's more more of that comedy element to like when we see that, like, you know, little dog, too. And then they like she like slams the door.
01:20:48
Speaker
you kind of get that idea. It's like, oh yeah, Dorothy's just like a side plot. You know? near yeah Yeah. Which happens in the movie too, but it's... The internet's been going all off about Being Dorothy under there listening to For Good. just These two sing a love song to each other while she's stuck down here and yeah in the cave. like What is happening up there? Linda, is that you? yeah All of the people, all of the influencers like recreating what Dorothy would be doing underneath, listening to them sing For Good is just so funny.
01:21:19
Speaker
So, okay, let's kind of lightning round the March of the Windhunters and the girl in the bubble because that is everybody is out to get she I think she's already has she already taken Dorothy or not yet. But anyway, so they're like, let's go get her. Let's kill the witch. And they all go off the yes, the wizard has just told Dorothy to kill the witch. So they're off together. And then Glinda sings the girl in the bubble. Love, absolutely love the cinematography. Like every single shot is like a mirror image. And it's so, so cool. So again, I really want to see cinematography win an Oscar. I want to see Wicked just take all the Oscars. But anyway, what are is your thought, Abby, on the second added song?
01:22:04
Speaker
I think it's good too. Similar with the, nope, I think it's no place like home. I kind of, I feel like it's hard to be that iconic as the rest of the soundtrack. um But I do think, you know, it's helpful. Like we we do get to see more of Glenda's emotion in it and her self-reflection, you know, and also just like how alone she is in that moment. Like, even though she obviously it has more of a position of, yes, of like power or esteem, um but like none of that is really, you know, helping her in that scenario because she lost like the most important people to her. um
01:22:42
Speaker
So I feel like when I listen to the soundtrack again, like maybe I'll get ah like on a musical level, I'll get it a little bit more. So I like what it does for the story. and yeah, um one just small comment about like March of the Witch Hunters, like we In the stage production, because obviously we don't have like a lion on stage. Like all we see for that is like Bach. I think it's Bach or one of the townspeople like holding a big tail like and it goes like off stage and like like trying to yank it to be like, oh, but then he's too scared to like come on stage like that kind of a thing versus like, you know, when the movie CGI, we can actually see the whole thing. So that's yeah, one difference there.
01:23:29
Speaker
And Fierro's right there could have been saying, I also took you out of the classroom. Yeah. Yeah. He just kept his mouth shut the whole time, just trying to get back to love. That's exactly I had candidate. I'm like, Fierro's like, you guys say whatever you want. i You guys are going to Elphaba. I want to go to Elphaba. I'm already here. Let's just roll with this yeah so that I can get to where I want to be. and Yeah. oh Sure. Sure.
01:23:53
Speaker
Same reason he joined the guard, really. so He's just a great actor. The same character throughout. All roads lead Elphaba for him. so oh Okay, so any final thoughts before we we finish out with For Good?
01:24:09
Speaker
i really wanted to see you know just a cameo of Sabrina Carpenter somewhere in the Munchkin Land area. you know She's already the right height. oh i know Somewhere in there.
01:24:23
Speaker
I'm sure she'll be in some sort of musical in the future. Yeah, for sure. the next one. Maybe she'll play Dorothy. No. No, I know, I know. She's rumored to do a Rapunzel for the live action Tangled. No, I don't want it. or no No. My bad.
01:24:41
Speaker
She wants to do an Alice in Wonderland. she's yeah She started a production on that. If she's Alice, she can't be Rapunzel. That's valid. But it'll be a musical rendition of that on yeah um as a movie scene. Jonathan Bailey for Flynn Rider?
01:24:55
Speaker
Always. I know. I would love it, but I think he's too old. I know. younger would be so perfect, but I do think he's too old, unfortunately. Fair. I just can't get my nose right now. I think Rapunzel's like 18, so Flynn has to be like 22 or something. Max. Yeah. Oh, well. Oh, well.
01:25:11
Speaker
In my mind. Okay, so let's talk let's talk about For Good. Beautiful, stunning. I mean, to emotional. know it's not directly related to the song, but like the door scene, like kind of at the end of that, like that's new, but love that. i think that's the part where I like teared eye up actually. um i kind of, I didn't really the whole time I was expecting to, but um that was a part that I i did more. And I mean, i don't want to say what's already been said by
01:25:44
Speaker
so many others, just a great song. Like, you know, they're just seeing that the friendship is the most important thing to them, like that they are forgiving each other. I think both of them taking accountability is great, like to an extent and, you know, just beautiful. Again, it's after seeing the memes again, I'm like picturing Dorothy, like in the, under the, i like and all of that, but yeah.
01:26:12
Speaker
i think it hit I think it hit a lot harder, like, having seeing Ariana and Cynthia, like, through from the beginning of the first movie, through all the press touring that they did, through filming this movie and all the press post this production, like, knowing how they have become such good friends and how they do, like, they genuinely do love each other just, like, as human beings. Like, having them sing that song to each other, like, really hits because I I haven't, the hearing for good Idina and Kristen hits because it's like the classic, the iconic, but like not visually, I'm a very visual person. So like not being able to ever visually see them singing to each other and seeing how much they love each other. Like it's just, you don't get, I don't think you can really get the full effect of it unless you see it and you see the tears in their eyes and see them holding hands and like that kind of like, visual impact that you have when you can see two people in the same space together. and then again, like I said, them being so close in real life too and having that natural chemistry and that natural affection for each other just made it hit like really, really deeply. So I'm sitting there with my best friend and I'm crying. like, wow, I really have been changed for good. Like they're so right. Like, so I'm just like, wow. And so like that like is really like magical again like and just speaking broadly about a lot of the music in this production like it depending on where you're at in life it's gonna hit a little bit differently and so when you're seeing watching this with your best friend right next to you like you really feel it and you really feel like that love that they have for each other and like
01:28:02
Speaker
they're really speaking to you like on a spiritual level at that point. so Oh, now I'm going to cry again. I had a similar experience going to it though, because we went with our group of friends that we hang out with every week and I've become an integral part of our life. And so my my wife's best friend was sitting next to one on the other side. So it really was that moment of, you know, yeah, I have been changed for the good by knowing all these people that are around me here, this group of friends. So you definitely agree with everything you said there. It is a very emotional, very important song to the experience of the movie even. and
01:28:38
Speaker
All right. um Any final thoughts? um I'll just say in the finale, like kind of kind of closing ever where they kind of do a little reprise of of for good there. And then you kind of see them going their separate ways. I love how they did that.
01:28:54
Speaker
And in the in the stage production, too, it's it's pretty cool because they are singing together, but like they're. try to show that visually they're in different places like um i believe glinda is in her bubble and then like alphaba's kind of on the ground like with fiero and um kind of like just singing out but still together so i like how they were able to portray that in the movie too and yeah it's it's beautiful beautiful crying all the time um and the memory opening up for glinda was added right
01:29:27
Speaker
The what? Sorry. Brimery opening up for Glinda. Yes, I did forget about that. Yeah, that was new. um And especially because they, and I think this might be different in the book, but those that actually went through the whole book can correct me. But in the stage production in the movie, like it's kind of a whole thing that like Glinda doesn't actually have any magical abilities.
01:29:50
Speaker
But I don't know if that's true in the book or not. That's the same in the book. She still has no power. She's no figurehead. Yeah, she is entirely without power. Yeah, that's kind of interesting. Like maybe i know I've heard maybe it was Jon M. Chu talking about like, how do we keep the universe going and all that? Like it's kind of, I think, leaves the door open a little bit to like what could potentially happen or not. They could just leave it there.
01:30:18
Speaker
knowing how much this made and all of the marketing that went behind it. I feel like they won't. So, but it kind of leaves that door open.
01:30:29
Speaker
I'd love to see another sequel. I think it could be really interesting to see the another part of the story. I'd be fine with going back and doing the young Glenda and Elthaba stories.
01:30:40
Speaker
I could see them buying the rights to Wizard of Oz and doing a proper Wizard of Oz with the Wicked storyline built into it. I think that's what he would want to do. i i mean, maybe not, but I would love to see what John M. Chu does with the Wizard of Oz, with alpha ah with Cynthia Erivo being the Wicked Witch of the West and Ariana being Glinda the Good Witch.
01:31:05
Speaker
That would be cool. I would really think it because there's – could really do a lot. like Everybody's like the Wizard of Oz and Wicked are two different stories. They're not the same story, but they are. And to see like all the plot holes that the Wizard of Oz and Wicked do have if you're comparing the two, how he would correct those would be really fascinating. Yeah. guy I'm pretty sure they're owned by the same pair company right now. So I don't actually think it's as big a problem as they say it is right now. It might just be more of the fear of like messing with the beloved classic, a wizard of Oz and like with Judy Garland's performance and Margaret Hamilton as the original wicked witch. Like, do you really want to like mess with that? Like, cause wicked, I think,
01:31:47
Speaker
it's it's separate it's it's its own separate thing so like it's different enough that you can do it and have it be a spinoff and like it's relate directly related to wizard of oz but it's still not quite the wizard of oz and so like that that might be part of their like apprehension to fully remake it but i think it would be super cool to see a wizard of oz remake with like modern technology and cgi for like the lion and the tian and scarecrow like it's kind of time yeah be really cool and if you were gonna do it now's the time to do it when there's all the wicked hype and like if they're gonna do it it's from the 30s it's time to redo it yeah i mean like if we can remake harry potter and that just ended like 10 years ago then we can remake the wizard of oz it's been right literally almost 100 years yeah let's go
01:32:34
Speaker
The problem is it's a little bit cursed in productions of things like the the version of Return to Oz that Disney tried to do was absolutely a fever dream. and Everybody's tried to do it. Nobody's done it right except for you know this dark retelling of the witch instead. I i think that John M. Chu could do it.
01:32:50
Speaker
Yeah, because I think all of them, they have so much respect, I think, for even the original cast of of Wicked. And yeah, we know it differs from the book and everything. um But I think they really, it sounds like they all really care about like doing it as much justice it as possible. So I feel like, yeah, like you said, if anyone could do it. And that's really important. So that's the same as Henry Cavill taking care of the Witcher and all those things. Yeah. An actor who really cares about the property will do it justice. So I i really appreciate that with all these characters and all these actors. Hey, maybe when it hits the 100 year mark. Yeah. That I hope it didn't take that long. True.
01:33:32
Speaker
All right. Well, we're going to skip the bookmarked moments because we are over an hour and a half into this episode. But Abby, thank you so, so much for joining us. It was fabulous having you here. yeah,
01:33:48
Speaker
yeah everybody follow along Book Watch on Instagram. We have a Facebook group. Join the conversation and let us know what adaptations you would like us to cover.
01:33:59
Speaker
Thank you guys for having me. Because we knew you. Thanks. Oh, yes, totally. And my bestie, Jordan. Abby, you have changed us all for the good. Thanks, guys. Right back at you. Because we knew you. We've been changed for the good.
01:34:15
Speaker
We'll see you next week, everybody. Thanks for listening.