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Episode 6: It's Me, I'm Cathy, I've C*m, Homo
82 Plays13 days ago
The boys head to the moors for "Wuthering Heights", Emerald Fennell’s surprisingly sterile reimagining of the gothic classic — and come back windswept, confused, and tragically unaroused.
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Transcript
Drink Preferences and Vaping Habits
00:00:36
Speaker
Welcome come back Twinkies. well Sorry. Bicky's drinking a disgusting hand espresso martini. That's horrible.
00:00:46
Speaker
Oh my God. Are you going to finish it anyway? Cause you've already started. Yeah, still gonna, I'm still gonna finish it. It's fine. need it after, after that experience. Um,
00:00:57
Speaker
um what does it taste like? Um, Like sugary and also bitter, but not really like coffee.
00:01:08
Speaker
ah don't know. It's weird. and Sort of like a bitter vanilla. Well, it'll probably get you buzzed anyway. That's true. I'm drinking a giant iced coffee and beet juice.
00:01:20
Speaker
What, mixed together? No, just separate. Two different things are happening at the same time. You're a real girl if you've got two drinks on the go. Yeah, and I have a zen in because I haven't vaped or smoked a cigarette in like three weeks.
00:01:35
Speaker
That's good. I'm going to try not to vape too much during the pod because i don't want to make you jealous, but... I know. i do want to hit a vape so bad, like all the time. it like never goes away, the urge.
00:01:46
Speaker
Yeah, I always want to try and like... vape as little as possible on the pod because I have to go through and edit out my vaping sounds every time and it's really time consuming and annoying and probably one of the main reasons that we're always delayed getting the episodes out but I can't help myself, I need a nicotine.
00:02:04
Speaker
Yeah, I hear you. um well I have a constant flow of nicotine going into
Nicotine Alternatives and Smoking Nostalgia
00:02:10
Speaker
me right now. I will say that the, i just found this new Zins
00:02:18
Speaker
Um, and they're much, much thinner. yeah Are they are they like the mini ones? They're not mini, they're just slimmer. Like I'll show you. They're not like fat.
00:02:30
Speaker
So it's like, they're like long and skinny. Okay, because I use those in minis, like if I use them because I have to have them at work because I can't vape like at my desk. I think I get sacked. So I use the Zen minis because I find like if I use the regular size ones,
00:02:49
Speaker
Like, my upper lip looks like I've had really bad um like collagen injections, and everyone just says, like, why do you look so weird? Yeah, I have to put it in my upper lip, too, because it would be more convenient to put it down in the back, but when I put it back there, i feel like the nicotine juices flow down my throat, and... I didn't even know there were other places you could put it. I thought you had to put it under your tablet. I think you can put it anywhere along your gums. and be Okay.
00:03:17
Speaker
yeah Apparently it's quite bad for your gums, but I don't know. tell me that because i was just chat to PTing and they were like, it was like, of the all the nicotine options, Zin is the safest.
00:03:30
Speaker
Okay. Well, that's fine. So I feel positive about that. but mean To be honest, the main the main reason that I gave up smoking cigarettes when I gave up was, um it wasn't because I was scared of getting lung cancer. It's because I didn't want to have like yellow teeth because it makes your teeth like brown on the back. It's disgusting.
00:03:50
Speaker
It is gross too, like when you smoke a cigarette. And like the one thing I hate is ah if you smoke a lot of cigarettes in a night, your hair smells like cigarettes. I don't like that. And I have longer hair again, so I can i can smell it when it happens.
00:04:06
Speaker
Yeah, I always find like, i don't know, you don't get it so much now because you can't smoke in clubs. But when I was younger and i used to come home from like, a club, like as soon as you get in the shower the next morning, it would like release all of the sense of the, oh, yeah, I kind of missed that anyway. But now nightclubs just smell like sweat, so I don't go too.
00:04:27
Speaker
Yeah, me
Wuthering Heights Film Adaptation: Initial Impressions
00:04:28
Speaker
neither. um Speaking of sweat, we're here to talk about Emerald Fennell's Wuthering Heights. yes that was ah That was a very good um lead in.
00:04:38
Speaker
but Lots of sweat in this film. um I have increasingly as... So I saw it on Valentine's Day. and so Saturday. And I've increasingly soured on it as I've thought back on it.
00:04:53
Speaker
But you liked it. No. Well, yes and no. i don't know. I i also... i I should mention I saw it like an hour ago. So it's very fresh in my mind. um i had very...
00:05:11
Speaker
mixed feelings while I was watching it. And yeah I'm still kind of in that thing of like, I really don't know. I really don't. I know why I didn't like about it. I don't know I did like about it, but I'm still sort of figuring out on a whole, whether I liked it or not. you know Did you actually ever read Wethering Heights?
00:05:30
Speaker
I read it when I was in college. So we're talking like 20 years ago. And it's not a book that I have like, um, I don't have ah enough of an affection towards it to be like bothered that it's not a faithful adaptation. like i'm not sort ah I can understand why people feel that way, but i'm not like I'm not super emotionally invested in the novel to care that it's not being adapted faithfully.
00:05:56
Speaker
Okay, I haven't read it, so we can just let's give a synopsis, but just of the film. Okay. And then we don't even have to we won't we we won't even talk about like differences between the book and the movie. because there's it's I've read the Wikipedia synopsis and there's tons of differences, but it's like not even really worth going into.
Film's Narrative and Character Dynamics
00:06:14
Speaker
Before we completely disregard the novel, I think that my main...
00:06:18
Speaker
My main sort of gripe in terms of like differences from the novel would mostly just be like, it cuts out all of the kind of Gothic content. There's no, there's no kind of sort of ghostly apparitions and that kind of stuff in this, in this movie. It's, it's all straight, um, Tumblr romance, but, but other than that, yeah, I think we can kind of okay put the novel to one side.
00:06:43
Speaker
So in the the basic... I'm just going to go through a quick plot summary ah like fast, because just to in case you don't know what this movie shows. So it opens, and Catherine and Nellie are...
00:06:57
Speaker
young and we see a man get hung in the town square and he gets an erection. So a very emerald fennel opening. um And it's supposed to be kind of disgusting and like arousing and it kind of immediately connects sex and death, I would argue. At the beginning of the film, Nellie, who is played by an Asian actress, is...
00:07:25
Speaker
you know ah depicted as they say that she's the illegitimate daughter of a lord. So she's depicted as kind of more Catherine's playmate. that's like a like She's a ward. of Catherine's an aristocrat like living in a you know a manor house that's kind of crumbling.
00:07:45
Speaker
But as the movie goes on, she becomes more of a servant, um it seems. But anyway, that's that's the opening. And then her... father, they completely do away with the brother from the book, the but the father who's supposed to sort of, I think, be both the brother and the father is like a drunk and he's gambling and he is spending what little money they have left. They sort of live in like a crumbling, aristocratic manner. And um when he comes home one night, he like brings this boy home ah who yeah played by my son.
00:08:22
Speaker
Yeah, played by your son, famously from that show about the incel murder guy um And Kathy names him Heathcliff, and very quickly Heathcliff and Kathy become...
00:08:39
Speaker
friends and Nellie sort of gets sidelined in like the childhood dynamic. So Nellie becomes this kind of jealous foil to Heathcliff the whole time. and then, you know, there's a lot of like,
00:08:54
Speaker
Time in this movie is very poorly done, so it's, like, very difficult to tell, like, how much time has passed. But eventually we get, like, Alordi and Margot Robbie are grown up. You have no idea what age they're, like, supposed to be at this point, really. Yeah.
00:09:11
Speaker
yeah they're on the, you know, they're on the crumbling mansion. Things are getting worse and worse. Uh, the father is gambling more and more, getting drunker and drunker. He's beating Heathcliff. He's whipping him. Heathcliff is protecting Kathy, um from herself getting beaten. And then there's a scene where Kathy is masturbating on the cliff. Oh, so it starts, so it's the, before that we get the, the first kind of,
00:09:42
Speaker
I guess, like, overtly sexual scene where she's, like, peeping through the Right, right. So she she's peeping through the... She's watching two servants have sex, and the servants are having kind of BDSM-style sex. Yeah, like, he's putting, like, a horse bit in her mouth and, her mouth and like...
00:10:03
Speaker
fucking her from behind and then Heathcliff comes in and lays on top of Kathy and nothing exactly sexual happens with them but he covers her eyes and her mouth while she continues to listen to this sexual encounter but can no longer see it. um So that's sort of, I guess, erotic. um But they're fully clothed and nothing sexual happens with them.
00:10:25
Speaker
Then later on therere she runs up to the moors and she's masturbating. And Heathcliff finds her, watches her masturbate for a little bit, and then kind of forcefully pulls her to him and like smells her fingers.
00:10:42
Speaker
And then licks her fingers. And then licks her fingers and... Anyway, a little gross, to be honest. I did not find it hot.
00:10:52
Speaker
um And then she's talking with Nellie about how, oh, and then she goes to the neighboring manor where, um I forget his name. What's to be? Mr. Linton or Linden or something. gay Yeah. And he's he there in the garden with his quote unquote ward, Sarah.
00:11:16
Speaker
Sarah is sort of like this female kind of like autist character. Who's Sarah? I thought it was Sarah. Isabella. Isabella. Okay. I think it's Isabella. Let's not get every name wrong.
00:11:31
Speaker
um Mr. Linton is his name. That is that that is the right name. Well, yeah. but in there Well, in the novel, that's his sister, but obviously he's played by like a Pakistani guy and she's played by like a white actress. So I don't think it's his sister in the movie. I'm not sure if they- do Yeah. So his name is Linton and then Isabella, is that the name? Is that right?
00:11:50
Speaker
I'm sure it's Isabella. Yeah, Isabella. Okay, Isabella's played by this, like, white actress. But anyway, she's ah kind of this, like, female autist. He clearly is bored with her. And Kathy climbs a wall to like, spy on them and then falls.
00:12:07
Speaker
And... we don't see any of this, but she like, quote unquote, sprains her ankle from this fall and ends up spending six weeks at Mr. Linton's manor recovering, which is very weird because we don't get to see any of that.
Social Pressures and Relationship Turmoil
00:12:22
Speaker
Like, no, we don't see absolutely zero of what she's doing in that manner. We just see Heathcliff very angry and like Nellie and the father and Heathcliff and the other servants are like talking about like,
00:12:38
Speaker
the fact that she's over there. Yeah, like the the dad sort of, um he kind of interprets it as kind of a scheme of hers to sort of weasel her way in because obviously their fortunes are crumbling and he's he's kind of glad about it because he wants her to sort of rescue them from poverty Right. So then she comes back and she's like decked out and like a, one of the many, many, many absurd, like not period accurate dresses she wears.
00:13:09
Speaker
And, you know, Heathcliff is mean to her and she's mean back to him because like, you know, he's angry that she abandoned him and, you know, she treats him kind of like a servant, which he is. um And there's a night where Nellie and Catherine are talking and Catherine basically says, it would degrade me to marry Heathcliff. And Nellie sees that Heathcliff is listening.
00:13:42
Speaker
and let Kathy just say whatever she's going to say. But then Heathcliff walks away before she says, but I love him desperately. um And then steals a horse and rides away. So Kathy thinks that Heathcliff abandoned her, ah and Heathcliff thinks that Kathy hates him.
00:14:01
Speaker
And that's like where that part of the story. So then she marries Mr. Linton. And we get like a very classic um Emerald Fennell mid-movie song montage where Isabella, Mr. Linton, and Kathy are kind of enjoying the high life. um He shows her her new room, which is decked out in wallpaper that's meant to look like her skin, which has like blue veins and freckles. And it's it's a very bizarre whatever. Anyway, that happens.
00:14:36
Speaker
And you're meant to believe that during this montage, like years have passed because app right right after the montage, Kathy goes back to visit her father in the now even more crumbling estate. And her father's like, oh, he you you're not pregnant yet. You have nothing to do but doll yourself up in these ridiculous outfits. um And he's like, all those years and no baby.
00:15:02
Speaker
So you're kind of like um meant to believe that like several years have passed, I guess. um And the father is getting an allowance from Mr. Linton, but he's like just gambling it all away and falling into further and further You know, disrepair or whatever. um And then Heathcliff comes back.
00:15:26
Speaker
He now has a gold earring and a gold tooth. And he's um somehow very rich. And he has bought Wuthering Heights, Catherine's old manor house.
00:15:40
Speaker
So he moves in next door. they end Right before he moves in next door, Catherine tells Mr. Linton that she's pregnant.
00:15:50
Speaker
um and It is Mr. Linton's baby. She has not had any sex with Heathcliff. She got pregnant from him, a Mr. Linton. Yeah. and During the montage earlier, we did get a few scenes of her and like Mr. Linton having sex. and He seems very into it and she seems less so.
00:16:07
Speaker
Yeah, she's sort of just like sad that she's not having sex with Heathcliff. Understandable. Yeah, so Heathcliff and Kathy begin this like horrid affair, there's shockingly little nudity.
00:16:25
Speaker
um you know i i was kind of ready for like Jacob Elordi titties out. There's none of that. yeah No prosthetic penises in sight. like No, no. It's just a lot of them fucking with her full ass dresses on and Yeah, that's all you really get.
00:16:46
Speaker
um And then basically he finds out that she's pregnant and she says it's Mr. Linton's baby. um And that doesn't stop him. He still wants to keep the affair going. um And this whole time Nellie is sort of scheming like to fuck up, you know...
00:17:09
Speaker
this relationship that Kathy is finally happy in and ah convinces Mr. Linton to like... tell her that she can't see Heathcliff anymore. Yeah. We don't actually see the conversation that she has with him on screen, but like you you get the impression that she's obviously told Linton that they're having an affair.
00:17:31
Speaker
um and he sort of like bans her from seeing Heathcliff. Right. So then Kathy tries to get rid of Nellie by firing her, but um Mr. Linton is like, no, Nellie stays and she's going to like take care of you while you're pregnant, blah, blah, blah. And then Kathy and Heathcliff end up breaking it off because of this you know intrusion by Nellie. And then Heathcliff starts an affair with Isabella, which quickly develops into like a kind of disgusting, abusive, BDSM-style relationship where...
00:18:11
Speaker
Isabella, they make it very clear that she like consents to this, but she's clearly being treated like awfully. you know um He's like fucking he's like fucking her in front of the servant. Yeah, she's like ah a heterosexual like human pup. like He puts her in like a dog collar and stuff like that, and she like yaps and barks on the floor and stuff.
00:18:34
Speaker
Yeah. So... um And then the father dies and Kathy like kicks him and whatever, he's out of the picture now.
00:18:47
Speaker
um And the affair continues with Isabella and then they get married. And then Kathy is so despondent that he married Isabella that she retreats to her room and she stops eating and she stops taking care of herself. And the baby dies and A few other things happen that aren't really that important, but basically she ends up dying. She bleeds out from sepsis because the baby has died um And then Heathcliff runs over to you know the house and he lays next to her. and
00:19:26
Speaker
he says, like you know find some way to stay with me, which I know in the book, she like haunts him in like a sort of ghostly way, but we don't see any of that.
Margot Robbie's Portrayal and Casting Critique
00:19:36
Speaker
like The final scene is just him sort of laying next to her dead body and crying in the movie.
00:19:44
Speaker
It just ends. yeah yeah because they kind of the The novel kind of has a sort of framing device where it you have like a character that isn't included that um goes to the manor and then Nelly tells him the story and that that is all sort of like cut out of it. But like, yeah, it did. It felt very, it's a very long movie, but it felt like it ended super abruptly with no real sense of like closure at all i don't know what you thought of the ending yeah i felt like it ended so abruptly no closure i also felt like i wasn't super invested in their love affair so i didn't find any like like i looked over and like a woman near me was like crying but i didn't feel any like emotions because like i mean kathy and heath clip are like terrible people and their love never seemed uh
00:20:38
Speaker
very sweet to me. It seemed very cruel and disgusting and weird. And i just like, didn't really feel the emotional investment to like believe that they were so in love. And this was like the devastating part of this was that their love was broken. i didn't, I just didn't feel that. Yeah. I, I have, I had a lot of thoughts about that. Like, um, before I saw the movie even, and then even more so, I guess, after I saw the movie. So like,
00:21:09
Speaker
i I said earlier, like I didn't really care whether this was necessarily like a faithful adaptation, but if it was going to be a faithful adaptation, Margot Robbie is way too old to play the part of Kathy. like yeah In the novel, Kathy's a teenager. and I think even in even like disregarding the novel, in this version of the story that Emerald Fennell has concocted, i think she's still too old to play the character. I think the way that she behaves you would sort of accept it more from a younger girl, but she's, she's a grown ass woman. And I think sort of the fact that she behaves so badly throughout the movie, it makes it impossible for you to,
00:21:51
Speaker
sort of feel any kind of empathy towards her. Like when she dies at the end, I wasn't thinking, oh my God, Kathy's dead. I was thinking like, oh, I like the cool thing they've done with the leeches. Oh, I wish this girl sat next to me would stop texting on her phone. Like I wasn't, I didn't have any kind of emotional response to it. And I think I mentioned this to you like earlier through text. Like I think one of the things that would have helped with that a lot would have been if she'd at least attempted a Northern accent because Jacob Elordi's accent in this movie is really good. I mean, I'm from the north of England, obviously, so i kind of I'd recognize if he was doing a Duff accent, and he was pretty good. I liked him throughout the whole thing. But Margot Robbie does the part in this very like typical received pronunciation, um like Southern English accent that I think just it makes her come across very cold and unlikable. And I feel like if she...
00:22:51
Speaker
If she'd at least attempted a northern accent, there would have been a degree of warmth there, even though the character's behaving so badly, that would have made you care about her a little bit more. That was like that was probably my main gripe with the movie. I would have liked the character a lot more, and I think it would have counterbalanced the fact that she's a little bit too old to be playing this part if she'd at least attempted a northern accent.
00:23:12
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I don't know anything. British accents all sound the same to me, so i you know it wouldn't have helped me. But I do agree that like the character is still played like a petulant like little girl. And she...
00:23:27
Speaker
she had been significantly younger actress, it would have been like, okay, we can excuse some of this like petulance because we're looking at like a young person who doesn't really know any better. But she's old and like is referred to even by her own father as approaching spinsterdom.
00:23:47
Speaker
um So like it's not it's not like they're like trying to say she's... you know, like a young woman. Like, so it's like, you're kind of like, how is this 30 something woman like acting like this? Why is she acting like this? It doesn't make any sense. Yeah. I think she would have had much more maturity by the time she reached this age. so Everything she does, it doesn't you don't really have that veneer of empathy, which you sometimes, like you said, you have for younger characters because you remember what it's like to be young and like not really know any better, but she so doesn't have any of that innocence about her. Yeah, and when I've heard like i've heard um like Emerald Fennell in my interviews and stuff referring to it as like um like, the reason she put the title in quote marks is because it's not supposed to be a faithful adaptation and she wanted it to feel more like
00:24:39
Speaker
her personal experience of reading the novel when she was a teenager and she described it as sort of like a a teenage fever dream. And like, I get all of that and that's fine, but like, that's not the movie that you made. And I think one of the biggest sort of,
00:24:56
Speaker
issues with that is Margot Robbie. like she's She's not a teenager. She's very beautiful and she's a good actress. and But I don't know, like she doesn't bring any kind of youthful spirit to the role. seems very she seems very like she just does her Elizabeth the first accent and like calls it a day. and I don't know. it i was a little upset with that. Because I don't necessarily even mind them aging the character up, but do something interesting with that and like like incorporate it into the character somehow. but um But yeah, I don't know. That was that was probably the biggest so letdown for me, I think.
00:25:36
Speaker
And I just didn't find Jacob Elordi and Margot Robbie. I didn't think they had good chemistry on screen. i didn't find their love believable. it seemed very, he even like the scene where they're in the carriage and he like licks her finger or whatever. i was like, it looked it looked so clinical. It looked so... yeah like so porny. Like it looked like, like you're watching almost like bad porn, which most porn is really bad. And like, it just seemed very fake and like a fake kind of, um,
00:26:14
Speaker
intimacy. And it was interesting because like right after that, um the next day, I watched Hamnet, which I won't talk about in great detail. But the opening love story and Hamnet, those two actors really did have like kind of beautiful chemistry. And I was like, okay, this all feels...
00:26:32
Speaker
very believable like i can like i believe this love story but i just didn't really believe jacob alordi and catherine i i i didn't even think they seemed very attracted to each other no and i think and i i i thought he was pretty good like it in general in the movie i i'm I've seen him in like a couple of things now, like outside of Euphoria, and I've been like consistently impressed with his performance, even though I haven't necessarily liked the movies that he's been in.
00:27:05
Speaker
um So I do think he's talented, but like yeah, they just they didn't work as a couple. There was there was no real sort of spark there between them, I don't think. and He looked so much hotter before he like became like a gentleman as well.
00:27:20
Speaker
Yeah, and I think you know part of the problem is like you know he's younger than Margot Robbie. Margot Robbie is a married um woman with a child, and you know i just think that...
00:27:35
Speaker
I don't know. I mean, this is me just kind of like reading into it, but he's, I'm looking at it now. He's, he's seven or eight years younger than her. And I just, I think from everything I've like seen of him, like interviews and stuff, he seems like a very respectful guy.
00:27:50
Speaker
Yeah. I could just kind of see him seeing Margot Robbie as like, you know, this like older married established woman and not really like wanting to in any way like degrade her. But like that makes it really difficult to, um,
00:28:15
Speaker
Like, that, like, respect he seems to have for her makes it really difficult to believe what we're supposed to be witnessing of their love story, you know? Yeah, especially when when she's really struggling to kind of embody that as the character. Because I think, like...
00:28:32
Speaker
though There was a no point during this movie that I wasn't thinking I'm watching Margot Robbie. Like she doesn't disappear into this role at all. Like I, i it was Heathcliff and Margot Robbie. It wasn't like Heathcliff and Kathy to me when I was seeing it. Um, and now I was never able to sort of forget that I i was watching her I agree. And I think the fact that they're all Australian is really funny, too, because I'm like, I just could not see, like, these two people just did not seem like they were people who were from, like, the English Moors and this, like, cold, rainy place. Like, they both look so, like, suntanned and healthy and, like, robust. Yeah.
00:29:10
Speaker
I'm like, these people are supposed to be on like Bondi Beach. Like, these are not people who look like sickly Victorian, like, you know, like. Yeah, and I also like, so to have a movie that is like like, I don't know whether you've even been to the auction wars, but I've been and it's a like beautiful light landscape and you barely see any of it in this movie. Like, it it feels very,
00:29:40
Speaker
i do like I liked some of the sort of like art direction and stuff, but it feels like almost kind of like Tim Burton-y in a way, like the way that they have the the the house set up. And i don't know, like even for a movie called like Wuthering Heights, you don't spend that much time at Wuthering Heights. A lot of the movie is focused at like Thrush Crush Manor whatever it's called.
00:30:04
Speaker
I just felt like what a waste of sort of an opportunity to kind of showcase like like one of the most like striking like landscapes in England. I don't know.
00:30:14
Speaker
Yeah. And then like, I definitely agree that like, I guess Threshcross Manor is what it's called. Like felt very Tim Burton-y because like even during the like, so like my favorite part of Salt Burn probably was the montage where they sing, um,
00:30:30
Speaker
In the background, it's like, we're fated to pretend. ah dead And learn they're like playing um you know they're playing tennis and they're drinking the they're drinking the champagne and like they're having fun. That's one of my favorite parts of the movie because like one thing about Saltburn that I really loved is that it's I think Saltburn is very much a period piece of like the aughts.
00:30:53
Speaker
Yeah, for sure. You know, so I'm like, and there was a lot of like stuff in Saltburn that was like very believable to that like kind of time period. um And I loved the soundtrack and I loved the way the characters dressed and I loved the way they looked. And I just was like, anyway, whatever. So, but like the this montage did not feel that way to me. It felt like exactly like you said, like some weird off-brand Tim Burton film where they're like,
00:31:20
Speaker
putting Margot Robbie and Mr. Linton and Isabella into these, like, kind of... i mean, they are beautiful costumes, but they're sort of, like, so whimsical that you're, like, just kind of...
00:31:33
Speaker
Yeah, like the at one point she's got like the red shades on from like Dracula. And I'm just thinking, like what like what is this? Come She's wearing these tiny little red glasses. On her wedding night, she wears like this... Saran wrap thing. Yeah, she's like in a saran wrap bow thing. And it's just like, you're like, what is going on here? And it's just like, yeah. And they...
00:32:02
Speaker
they do seem like Like, I will say, like, if I probably, if I had streamed this and I clicked pause on each set, like, I would probably have a lot to look at And it would be interesting to look at all the stuff on the tables and the wallpaper and the room that's covered in the stars. Like, I'm sure... Yeah, they did, um they did like, an Architectural Digest video that you can watch on YouTube where they go through, like, all the rooms in Thrush Crush Manor whatever and go...
00:32:34
Speaker
go through all the like tiny details and stuff. But like, and I liked watching that. it was very It was interesting and fun. But like a lot of that stuff, like you don't even really notice it on screen, to be honest. like um So like the the skin kind of room, um there are like so they had all this stuff installed where like the walls kind of look like they're sweating and stuff, and you don't really see that that much. I thought the skin room was weird. um I thought the skin room was weird and gross.
Casting Choices and Character Development
00:33:04
Speaker
I hated it the whole time. um i didn't like
00:33:08
Speaker
when Jacob Elordi is fucking her against the skin wall and like... And he like licks it. Yeah, I was like, oh, please, come on. I found the racial message there sort of weird too, because the Pakistani guy is like supposed to be so obsessed with, I guess, literally Margot Robbie's skin. Like, I found that to be a weird...
00:33:31
Speaker
Yeah, because i i like I will say this, like usually usually i don't like the whole colorblind casting thing, like ah especially in my period stuff. I just think it's stupid. And and i don't think it um I don't think it serves minorities either, like necessarily. I think i think it's just it's a dumb idea. you should just like sort of stick things to how they are. In stuff like this, I really don't care. But I do think that the way that they cast it,
00:34:03
Speaker
intentionally or unintentionally sort of feeds into some like negative racial stereotypes, especially with like Nelly, the sort of devious maid being like um East Asian. I thought like, I don't know. I don't know whether they really thought that through, um but it seemed like an unfortunate choice.
00:34:21
Speaker
It was an unfortunate choice because they make like the, you know, like Nellie has like no redeeming moments. Like they don't even give Nellie some sort of scene where you would feel like,
00:34:35
Speaker
okay, like, like they they do have the maid sort of say, oh, you're a bastard and bastards aren't, like, you know, real ladies. But, like, we don't ever get a scene of Nellie where we're like, oh, Nellie has this, like, internal emotional core I should care about. She's just, like, this old...
00:34:57
Speaker
you know, like I said, East Asian woman who is jealous of Catherine. And then it's like, so like that of the two minority actors in the film, one is just deeply jealous of Catherine and one is just obsessed with her.
00:35:12
Speaker
um and even with him, like you, you, we, you really don't know anything about him. Like he has so little screen time that like, I don't know, you don't really know anything about their relationship apart from the fact that she doesn't love him. Like, there's no there's no sort of character building around him or like no sort of understanding of his character really at all.
00:35:37
Speaker
No, none. And then the only other character the only other character besides Robbie and Elordi that gets some actual like character development is Isabella. But like, I just found myself feeling...
00:35:53
Speaker
devastatingly sad for her because she's like, you know, supposed to be like, sign well, she is, I mean, just like, this is just blatantly true, like significantly less pretty than Margot Robbie. Yeah. Margot Robbie. Like most human beings. on Yeah, like most human beings. And like Margot Robbie is very cruel to her.
00:36:13
Speaker
And then like when Jacob They make sure, what I found very interesting is like they make sure when Jacob Heathcliff climbs through the window and they have that first sex scene, they make sure to make it very clear, like consent is being given. Because you like he like says to her like, I will never treat you right. I will never love you. do you want me to stop?
00:36:33
Speaker
Do you want me to stop? Yeah, the whole time I'm with you, I'm going to be thinking of Catherine. Yeah, and he keeps saying this over and over again. like He's like never going to treat her well. And and then she's like accepting that. So i mean I guess we're supposed to believe, okay, she has like consented to this arrangement, eyes wide open.
00:36:54
Speaker
But it's like, it doesn't... I don't think it makes you feel any better about the character. that It makes you feel very sad for the character that she would accept something so degrading. Degrading. Yeah. And also because there's no... um there's no resolution to that storyline either. I think the last time we even see her is when she's like sort of on the floor barking like a dog and then she's just not in the movie after that. I don't think. And so there's no, there's no like resolution for her. We have no idea whether she has any kind of like happy ending. i mean,
00:37:29
Speaker
Yeah, and they like the scene that really got me, and this is the only time I almost cried, is when they're getting married and the vicar whatever says, you may now kiss the bride, and he just walks away from her. Yeah, thought yeah that was horrible.
00:37:45
Speaker
ah You see like characters like Heathcliff behave like that, and you're like, how am I supposed to care about this man and his romance with Kathy when... You're showing him behaving so deplorably. like you still expect me to care at all about him? Like, no And I also find it funny that, like, there's this been this a little there's been so much discourse about it online, of course.
00:38:07
Speaker
And, like, I also find it funny that, like, people are like, oh, like um you know you're mad that like an abused wife in the book gets to have actual agency in the movie.
00:38:19
Speaker
And I'm like, i actually don't think that someone accepting, like um i mean, maybe it's agency, but it's still sad. like She's just accepting this like emotionally abusive situation.
00:38:33
Speaker
And like if it had just been the sex stuff, okay, people like what they like in bed. Yeah. And like, if Jacob Elordi was like, I'm going to degrade you now, are you into that? i think ah to it'd be a yes for me. um but like i But like, I wouldn't want like to be treated like that at all times. You know what i mean? like No, it kind of, it reminds me a lot of, um I don't know if we talked about on the pod, but like we both watched Pillion, right? Yeah, yeah. Like the whole, like the whole kind of theme of that movie is that this sort of like nerdy guy gets into a relationship with them.
00:39:13
Speaker
ah Alexander Skarsgård who's like ah a hunky biker um but they never really have a real relationship it's always this sort of like BDSM like dom sub um thing the whole way through and I think I was really surprised that I actually kind of liked that movie because I think that ah did a good job of like demonstrating the the negative side of that kind of relationship and how like you can be in that kind of scenario and enjoy elements of it sexually, but still be kind of yearning for like more and more of like a sort of real relationship. And I kind of, I don't know, it kind of it just kind of reminded me of that. i was thinking, oh, they did such a bad job of exploring that kind of relationship in that movie.
00:39:59
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, that movie, I thought of it immediately too, because I'm like, that movie shows the problem with Like, I'm sure people do exist in BDSM relationships where it bleeds out of the bedroom, too. I'm i'm positive that that exists. But I'm like, nobody wants full-time to be treated like vermin. You know what mean? Why would you want that for yourself? Yeah, sometimes you want— And if you do if you do want that for yourself, you need help. You need help, yeah.
00:40:34
Speaker
And like that's like the whole theme in Pileon, too, is like he eventually realizes like I have some like limits. like i I need some time in my relationship where I'm treated like I'm in a relationship, where I'm treat where i'm treated kindly and...
00:40:52
Speaker
I'm you know given like love and affection. um and there's that's kind of You get a tiny glimpse that maybe she kind of wants that too. like There's a scene where, um because one of the kind of moments in the movie is where like he keeps writing getting her to write these letters to Catherine explaining sort of how horrible her situation is, and Nellie keeps burning them, so Cathy's never actually getting to read them. and There's a scene where he's like, write another letter to Cathy.
00:41:21
Speaker
And she's like, oh, and and then you'll be nice to me. And then he's like, yes, and then I'll be so nice to you or something like this. and So you you kind of get like a tiny snippet of the idea that maybe she wants more than that, but it never really goes anywhere because you don't you don't see the end result.
00:41:38
Speaker
Yeah, she pushes back a tiny bit in that one scene against his like, kind of overriding like abuse and
Film's Emotional Impact and Cultural Reception
00:41:50
Speaker
domination. but like, yeah, you don't feel, I still don't feel like she, we get to see her get anything that she wants. And then, yeah, and then the movie just ends and I just, um I just found, I found it to be a very hollow film.
00:42:11
Speaker
Yeah, i I would agree. Whereas like Salt Burn, despite having kind of like a sinister lower class person like feed off this aristocratic family, like i in a weird way, you like do have some emotional feelings for that main character. because yeah even though he's doing really, really horrific things, like he's murdering people, literally, you, like, kind of understand, like, especially because most people are not aristocrats, right? So you, like, you kind of understand, like, what it would feel like to be to be exposed to that sort of life, but then...
00:43:01
Speaker
you know, ultimately always be the person looking in the window, you know? um and you feel some sort of sadness about that because you can relate to that. You can relate to what it would feel like.
00:43:14
Speaker
ah And the characters are very young. They're in college, right? So you also have this element of like, Yeah, I remember what that felt like in college. Like I remember there was like the cool people and there was the not cool people. And like you always wanted to be on the in the cool people side. And like, if you're not in that group, you can feel left out. And like, you know, but there was just like, so it had a little bit of heart is my point, you know? Yeah, yeah, i definitely did. i mean, i I definitely had my criticisms of Soulbim when it came out. There were elements of it that i didn't like, but um but it definitely felt like I had more
00:43:49
Speaker
hearts and this movie for sure. So anyway, to so like now the cultural impact is happening. It made a shit ton of money, Wuthering Heights, um, this weekend.
00:44:01
Speaker
So it's a massive box office success, but it's basically been critically panned. Um, There's no good reviews. Like, every review is bad. So it's interesting that, like, it's made a lot of money. People are clearly seeing it. People want to talk about it. I'm sure many people are hate-watching it, but it is making a lot of money. um and I made a joke on Twitter, and i'm I'm putting you on the spot, but I was trying to think of the funniest thing Emerald Fennel could adapt next to make people even more mad. Yeah. And I was wondering if you had any ideas. People had some pretty funny ideas. Like if Emerald Fennell's Lolita, that would that would get that would get people
00:44:47
Speaker
yeah i could see that yeah um Oh, I don't know i have no idea. some of the like serious ones that were funny were that that I could see her actually doing made me laugh. like Emerald Fennell's Lolita could absolutely um be a film she would be interested in making, and it would also be very ah bad.
Speculation on Fennell's Future Projects
00:45:10
Speaker
i only realized, I will say, I only realized sort of researching for this, like that um I didn't realize that Emerald Fennell is the actress that plays Camilla Parker Bowles in The Crown.
00:45:22
Speaker
Yes. And she's also Midge in Barbie. okay. Here's some answers I got on Twitter that were, some of them were funny. um To Kill a Mockingbird. Yeah. A remake of The Godfather.
00:45:38
Speaker
Middlemarch, but it stars Blake Lively.
00:45:45
Speaker
flowers in the attic, um my year of rest and relaxation. I think Emile Bennell actually could potentially do a good job. I was i was going to say i could I could definitely see her doing that. Yeah, some people said like some absolutely ridiculous stuff like the Bible and Beloved by Toni Morrison, Lord of the Rings. Yeah.
00:46:09
Speaker
I don't know. Yeah, gone with it. Who do you think this movie was for? ah Other than Admiral Fennel, obviously. I mean, i think that this movie is for a group that, like, kind of doesn't exist anymore. Because it feels very, like, for the Tumblr girls.
00:46:29
Speaker
Yeah. But the Tumblr girls, we are the Tumblr girls, like you and me. And, like, the Tumblr girls are now in their, like, late 30s. So... Yeah, I feel like we've we've outgrown Tumblr. Yeah, it's like it's, like, kind of the way that, like, Tim Burton is, like, stuck forever in this, like...
00:46:48
Speaker
creepy crawly gothic kid like universe i feel like emerald fennel is stuck in this like tumblr edgy girl you know and it's like it's so it felt so tame like that that was one of my biggest takeaways because i i mean listeners of the podcast will already know like i can be quite prudous at times and i do find like ah super explicit sex scenes in movies, sometimes off-putting or distracting. But like I went in really ready for that. and i was sort of like i because Initially, when this got announced, I was like, I don't want to watch this. I don't want to watch this. and Then when the trailer came out, i was like, okay, I'm kind of intrigued by this. like I will watch it. and but i I really went in expecting to be shocked by the sex in this movie. And I thought it was so tame compared to what i expected. like
00:47:49
Speaker
that's that You don't see any nipples, no nipples the whole movie. like Not even like side character nipples. There are no nipples in this movie. Yeah, even like if you think about Saltburn, it's like, Saltburn, period sex. He's sucking semen out of the bottom of bathroom. Yeah. He's fucking a grave. like None of that stuff happens. um then Nothing even close to that happens in this movie. And it was it was it was funny because like right after this, you're probably not watching this, but I'll just mention it briefly. like I'm watching Industry.
00:48:26
Speaker
um on HBO. It's a British show. um But industry is like so depraved. Like every... You're never even heard of it. It doesn't matter. But every episode you're like...
00:48:36
Speaker
wow, this could this show get any more disgusting, like, sexually speaking. um And it somehow kind of always manages to get more sexually disgusting. Like, it somehow actually manages to pull it off. Like, you're more and more grossed out.
00:48:51
Speaker
But, like, I didn't feel any of that for this. Like, none of it was shocking. None of it was, like, you know... Yeah. i was i was sat in this sort I had a bad cinema experience watching this. I was sat like maybe two seats away from a couple who were constantly whispering the whole way through or like texting on their phone or like making out, um not paying attention to the movie at all. But I can't remember where I was going with this.
00:49:18
Speaker
it's gone. i had a point, but it's gone. Well, I mean, i was, one, one thing, one saving grace for me is I was next to two gay guys who I think were a couple and they were laughing the whole time. Okay. And that was helpful because at least I, at least I was like,
00:49:34
Speaker
At least I was like, okay, like maybe this movie is at points achieving like camp territory. Yeah, i think yeah i think the point I was trying to make is like, oh I can see why this movie's been successful because it came out on Valentine's Day. It's the kind of movie that you would begrudgingly take your girlfriend to on Valentine's Day as a Valentine's Day treat and then text on your phone all the way through.
00:49:57
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, that was like i it was funny because just beyond the the couple that were sat close to me, there was this one like really, really old guy. and i He must have been like in his 80s or something, sat on his own.
00:50:12
Speaker
um and I was thinking, why is he here? What is he getting out of it And I wanted to speak to him after the movie, but I was too shy. and But he stayed for the whole thing, so maybe he liked it.
00:50:24
Speaker
Yeah. I just don't know. yeah Emerald Fennell is such a divisive figure. I mean, when I think back to Promising Young Woman, like, I remember even when that came out, i was like, okay, she, she, she hit the timing, right? Because that was like, right in the midst of like me too, maybe like a little bit post me too. So I was like, okay, we're going to watch like a rape revenge movie. Yeah.
00:50:52
Speaker
um And then even that, I was like, okay, so the reveal is that she's just like lecturing these guys. like yeah Like, you know what i mean? Like, she didn't even take it that far there. I was like, she's not like castrating them or killing them. She's just sort of giving them a little like...
00:51:09
Speaker
naughty, naughty. I do wonder what she's like as a person because the the only, I've never seen her in an interview or anything. I've read like a few quotes and stuff in like newspapers, but like my only experience of her is as Camilla Parker Balls and The Crown. So I just have this like vision of her as this, like, conservative horse girl. Like, I have no idea what her real personality is like. She seems very posh. Like, I looked... Or, I don't know. You tell me if this is posh. because She's called Admiral Fennel, so of course she's posh. But, like, I don't... I mean, like, what bri what British people consider posh versus what I consider posh might be different. But this is her early life section. I did go to it, because I was like, what what is what is her? So, Fennel was born in Hammersmith, London, to jewel jewelry designer Theo Fennel, who has a blue checkmark. So, he...
00:51:54
Speaker
must be fairly famous jewelry designer, and author Louise Fennell. Her sister Coco Fennell is a fashion designer. She went to Marlborough College, a prestigious public school in Marlborough, Wiltshire, attended by figures such as the Princess of Wales. She studied English at Greyfriars Oxford, where she acted in university plays. Fennell was rights journalist K.J. Yossman, part of a rarefied social set whose family names I recognized from gossip columns in history books, Balfour, Frost, Von Bismarck, Guinness, Schaefer.
00:52:26
Speaker
at oxford At Oxford, Benel was spotted by Lindy King of United Agents. Okay, she's, yeah, so that there is a... There's a like certain type of posh person where if you come from like money, but you also come from like a creative background, like I think it sort of breeds this particular type of eccentricity that like is distinctly British. like ah You see it in, what's that chick who's in?
00:52:55
Speaker
um who was married to Tim Burton, Helena Bonham Carter. She's from money. like she's not She's never been poor in her life, but she's from like also from like an artistic background. and it it It sort of breeds this eccentricity that's a little bit weird, but distinctly English. i imagine she's from a similar sort of ilk, where everyone in the family does something creative, but they they're probably able to do something creative because they're from money in the first place.
Final Thoughts and Disappointment
00:53:21
Speaker
Or maybe like a, what's the one, the really like alien looking actress, Tilda Swinton.
00:53:27
Speaker
seems Yeah. She's from like a money to family, but also like, you know, a lot of like an eccentric artistic money to family. Yeah, for sure.
00:53:38
Speaker
Anyway, well, I think that's all I really have to say about Wuthering Heights. Do you want Yeah, me too. Um, I don't know. Go see it if you want to, but like you're not missing much if you don't.
00:53:51
Speaker
It was interesting to talk about. like it definitely i'm not i don't I don't regret going to see it. um I just feel like I didn't mind the fact that it wasn't going to be a faithful adaptation. I just wish that it had done what it was attempting to do a lot better.
00:54:09
Speaker
i think that's what I would say. All right. Bye, Twinkies. Bye.