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Episode 3: Twunkelgrafen
0 Plays2 seconds ago
Q takes Biccy down the rabbit hole of the Dunkelgrafen before the boys weigh in on Guillermo Del Toro's Frankenstein (2025).
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Transcript
Introduction & Weight Loss Journey
00:00:33
Speaker
All right. Hi, Twinkies. Take three. Yeah, we had some sound issues, but I was just telling Q how skinny he looks and he was telling me that he's on Ozempic.
00:00:47
Speaker
so I am on Ozempic. But I'm happy to be skinnier as always. That's my goal. ah You can never be too thin. And for anyone who thinks I'm promoting unhealthy ah weight standards, i'm I'm still technically overweight. So according to my- Yeah, you're also a homosexual, so you're allowed to say stuff like that. fine. We get a free pass.
00:01:14
Speaker
Yeah, I've been um like on Reddit a lot for, I'm not even going to go into it, but like my other job. And I've just realized how sensitive um homosexuals have become. Because if you try to say like anything, even remotely controversial, they like freak out.
00:01:35
Speaker
Why? What have you been saying to the poor gayest? Well, but this is for like work, right? I, um you know, I have to, I have to like maintain these Reddit accounts. And like, so some of what i do is just posting normal stuff, but I've been off Twitter now for over a month.
Social Media & Controversies
00:01:50
Speaker
um Yeah, me too. I'm like slowly losing my Twitter. um Oh, by the way, we have a new Twink Death Instagram, Twink Death Pod. um If you're one of our few listeners, go go join in there because I'm a George Amish fan.
00:02:04
Speaker
We're going to try to be an Instagram um podcast now. But anyway, long story short, I'm realizing that, like, you know, um like, basically, I'm realizing that this, that Reddit does not like, like, very edgy um content because I made a joke about, like, so there's this new, um you know, there's this new show. i don't know if you've heard of it in, um,
00:02:33
Speaker
England yet, but it's called Heated Rivalry, and it's about like these two um hockey players that like fall in love, i guess, basically.
00:02:45
Speaker
um It's on HBO. Is there two guys that Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, so it's like a gay show. Yeah, and it's kind of just gay porn. And I was like, you know, um like I just made a joke, like because the tops butt and the show is like way better than the bottoms butt. mean, they both have incredible bodies. Like, a body I'll never achieve, because I'm never willing to work that hard. But, I mean, the top's butt is just, like, way better. So I made a joke, like, do you think it stresses the bottom actor out that the top's butt is way better? And people just, like, jumped on me. and I'm like, this is, good it's like, a really, like, low
00:03:26
Speaker
low effort post do they do do they do that like typical thing that they always do in gay stuff now where they like try and like subvert your expectations by having the more masculine one be the bottom no like the definitely the like uh They're both pretty masculine, but like the the more the the one that you think would be the bottom is the bottom. It's just like the other one happens to have like an incredible butt. Okay. It sounds like I would hate it. I got a lot of... Well, it's also like a little bit racist because they make the Asian one... well he's half Asian, I guess. But they make the they make the half Asian one the bottom.
00:04:03
Speaker
So they're really, they're not subverting um pornographic stereotypes. It's basically gay porn. i don't want to say it's anything else. I don't recommend it for fans of twink death. I mean, if you want some like escapist um sort of fantasy and do you want to watch like a romance, you could watch it, you know?
00:04:23
Speaker
We're here today to talk about um one of my favorite conspiracy theories. um And it does, i I do have a gay element. I want to be clear that I can tie, I can tie all this in to a gay element. So that is going to come. It's going to, it's going to be within twink death um themes because I think that twink death pod, I've been really thinking about this for the Instagram is a, is a,
00:04:50
Speaker
pod about crime, but also about morbid curiosity. And I'm thinking of a tagline that like kind of incorporates all of our interests. And I think something about morbid curiosity has to be in the ah the the tagline. um But have you ever heard of the Dunkelgrafen or the Dark Counts, um Vicky? or will this be your first introduction?
00:05:16
Speaker
No, I have never heard about this. um It's funny because you um I think you named the recording chat this and I like saw it and I was like, what the fuck is this? But I just sort of like brushed it off.
00:05:30
Speaker
and But no, I've never heard of the Dunkelgrap. Well, I'm glad to introduce you because I've tried to talk about this with other people and they they find it very boring, but I think you're going to find it really fascinating.
Dunkelgrafen Mystery
00:05:43
Speaker
All right. So we have to go way back in time. So we are in... um Basically, let's we're going to start at the French Revolution. so during the French Revolution,
00:05:58
Speaker
um everyone knows famously that Marie Antoinette ah was beheaded. And I'm not going to get a whole lot into Marie Antoinette, but it just it's this date is important. So she's beheaded 1793. And she had three...
00:06:16
Speaker
and she had three um you know surviving children at the time. um But only one of them makes it out of the I think it's... I'm not going to know every last thing about this, but only one of them makes it out of like the tower they were holding them in or whatever. um okay ah The temple prison, I guess, the square du temple. um so only one of the three children after her beheading makes it. The son dies of tuberculosis, but... Apparently he was being like beat beaten. it's really It's really sad. He's only 10 years old. I'm actually a big, ah I'm actually a big, like the French revolution and the Russian revolution were like very evil ah things to like displace like Catholic monarchy. So i I have no sympathy for what these people did, but yeah, basically um
00:07:09
Speaker
Yeah, the the son who would have been the heir is like beaten a lot and ends up dying of tuberculosis technically, but like was really poorly treated. But his sister, Maria Therese, does eventually make it out. And around 1795, the revolutionary government that was set up decides that she can basically be released. Yeah.
00:07:32
Speaker
And she's allowed to be sent back to her um her mother's family in ah Vienna.
00:07:43
Speaker
Oh, is that i in Austria? Yeah, it's in Austria. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I only know this from the Sofia Coppola film at the beginning when she like leaves Austria, but like yeah. and That's all my knowledge of the French resolution comes from the Sofia Coppola film.
00:07:58
Speaker
So at the time that she's allowed to go back to Austria, she's basically... She's roughly 18 years old, um so she's pretty young. And like no one really knows 100% what she experienced while she was imprisoned, but like lots of aristocrats that were imprisoned were raped and like horrible things happened to them, right? So she's probably had like a very...
00:08:25
Speaker
um traumatic experience being a like a young teenage woman in this environment where um there was you know a lot of dark things going on. um And again, I'm not a fan of the revolution at all.
00:08:40
Speaker
um So basically, um so that just keep that, kind of put a pin in that one, okay? Keep a pin in that. Okay. um But when she's ah when she goes back, she kind of goes back under like mysterious circumstances. like The people she's traveling with, it's like a very small group of people. And I think people have to understand that like you know the Central Europe was kind of decimated by the revolution. like there's a lot of There's a famous story about how Mary Shelley and her sort of entourage traveled throughout France during this time, and it's like completely destroyed. you know like The country was just ripped to shreds, um and people were like extremely traumatized. like women were ah Fashionable women wore like these... ah
00:09:28
Speaker
special chokers around their neck because they were like fetishizing the violence. And um part of what happened if you were an aristocrat who was imprisoned is your hair was cut super short. So like the new elites had this like really kind of severe look. um And there was these balls um that were happening at the time that were like um basically mocking what had happened. um And they, you know, would like have these elaborate plays. They were called the ball de victim victim. They were these like, ah you know they were basically these balls that were like, that broke out after the terror and ended, but they were like really, really um kind of,
00:10:18
Speaker
they were sort of like cathartic outcries of the people, like um where like they would like reenact like brutal bloody murders and the women wore these like, like I said, wore these chokers. And it was like very much like a traumatized nation trying to sort of come to terms with like what had like swept through their country.
00:10:40
Speaker
Okay. So that's all going on um in the background. So, Now I'm going to take you to 1807. 1807, a mysterious couple arrives in Hildberghausen, which is in the duchy of Sachs-Hildberghausen, which is now part of Germany. um it was a newly... ah kind of created, like, region because, you know, there was a lot of, like, shifting. Like, I think a lot of Americans don't know this, but maybe Europeans do. I don't know. But there was, you know, Europe has, like, for a while was, like, many, many, many tiny little small countries. Like, there wasn't, like, a Germany. And, like, you know what I mean? It was, like, all these, all these like, kind of little places. But anyway, this one had been, like...
00:11:36
Speaker
you know, recently sort of, I don't know, established, I guess, um because everything's sort of rearranging at this time. um So this couple arrives, um and they're there in 1807, they move into a ducal guest house um in the town, which means that, like, the Duke of the region,
00:11:59
Speaker
um was giving them lodging. um And no one really knows who these people are. And the one thing that's strange is that every time the woman... um So, like, people think the woman was around 18 years old, so some of them must have gotten at least a cursory glance at her face.
00:12:21
Speaker
um But most of the time when she goes out, she has a veil covering her face, um a Black veil. And um so it's very rare that she's seen. The man calls himself the Count Vaval de Versailles.
00:12:37
Speaker
um And he just says that his companion is a woman named Sophie Bata, and he doesn't really tell the locals anything else besides the fact that like they're not married and they're not siblings.
00:12:52
Speaker
Um, and so they live, this but like, they're basically, it's clear to like the peasants in the town that they're like under the protection of the Duke of the region for some reason they're, they're, they're like considered like aristocrats.
00:13:07
Speaker
Um, so then in 1810, they rent and move permanently into this small castle called Castle of Eishausen. um And they live there for the next 30 or 40 years, um both until both of their deaths, essentially. um And at that point, they like completely retreat.
00:13:29
Speaker
They basically never leave the palace grounds. um There are servants in the palace. The servants are being paid um super handsomely. like It's ah considered a very good job. But no one ever really gets to see the woman. And the rare times they do see the woman, she's in a carriage with a veil over her face. And people do overhear um the this guy, the Count, um speaking to her in French and referring to her as your Grace.
00:13:58
Speaker
But that's like the only clues as to who um she could be. so While they're in seclusion, this is from 1810 to 1837, the woman almost never appears in public.
00:14:12
Speaker
She wears a heavy veil. She travels in a closed carriage with the curtains drawn. um And the Duke of Sax Hildensburg, um, basically instructs local officials that they must treat the couple with, like, ah reverence and they shouldn't be disturbed. Like, they're not supposed to be, like, messed with. Um, and even though it says it's a small castle, um, I i looked at pictures of... It's obviously gone now, but I looked at pictures of like what it was, and it's like it's like bigger than the biggest house like you could imagine now. What was it called again?
00:14:50
Speaker
ah It's called Castle of Eishausen. It looks basically like a giant mansion. like I guess if you could imagine what we consider a mansion today, this would be like a big one.
00:15:03
Speaker
me. Anyway, excuse me anyway so if you added up the money they're spending to lease this castle and pay all these servants and live the lifestyle they're living, they're living and like today's money, they would have spent millions and millions and millions of euros over the course of their lives. So an extremely wealthy couple for a region that's like pretty isolated. like pretty you know It's like a pretty backwoods place This would be like a weird...
00:15:37
Speaker
thing for them to happen. So in 1837, the Countess dies. um There is pressure for the Count to identify who she was.
00:15:50
Speaker
And he just says her name is Sophia or so ah Sophie or Sophia Bata from Westphalia. um it's It's difficult. a lot of these translations are, most of the stuff that's written about this is in German. So you have to like run it through chat GPT to even... Read it. um um But that's that's who he says she was. And he she says that she was just from the up a board from the bourgeois class, like that her father was a wealthy merchant.
00:16:18
Speaker
But he basically like denies any claims that she had any um you know, like aristocratic blood of any kind.
00:16:30
Speaker
um And he says that she was 58 when she died, but people are very confused about that because the girl they saw when she first arrived looked only 18, this is 38 years later. So she would actually be 48 if the locals had been correct about her age at the beginning.
00:16:48
Speaker
But he says she's 58. So that wouldn't mean that would mean her arrival in the in this kind of like remote region of Germany would have been when she was 28.
00:17:00
Speaker
um So after the Count dies, the Count lives another eight years um in the in the past and the castle alone, um remains basically in seclusion.
Identity Theories & DNA Testing
00:17:12
Speaker
And then when he finally does die on his own,
00:17:16
Speaker
Like, local authorities have to kind of figure out, like, who is gonna get all his shit, you know? Because he has, like, this, like, castle full of stuff. um And they basically find out that he's this guy, Leonardis Cornelius van der Waal, who was a Dutch diplomat.
00:17:36
Speaker
And, um There's some documents in the palace that identify him as ah as this man. And there's letters from Agnes Berthelmy, who's a married woman he knew in the 1790s.
00:17:54
Speaker
um So there's just some stuff. So they're able to basically like trace this guy back and he's like a Dutch diplomat. So then people are even more confused because they're like, why was this Dutch diplomat like living in seclusion with all this wealth? Where did he get all this money?
00:18:14
Speaker
Who was this woman? You know, blah, blah, blah. blah blah So there, this is what brings us back to, um, Maria Tres. And I'm going to say that this theory is disproven already. So I have some new theories because they did eventually do DNA analysis on the body.
00:18:33
Speaker
But for a long time, um people thought that she was um Maria Therese.
00:18:44
Speaker
And basically how they thought this happened was that um Maria Therese was super traumatized by everything that happened um to her in the tower, in the temple. That's what they called it, the temple.
00:19:00
Speaker
um And she potentially could have been pregnant from rape. and she just absolutely refused to reenter society.
00:19:11
Speaker
So there's another figure that kind of comes in at this time. um her name is Ernestine Lambriquet. Um, and she, it's kind of a weird story, but she's supposed to be the child of two servants who were, um, at Versailles at the time of, uh,
00:19:34
Speaker
you know, the, like, basically they weren't like, i guess, full servants, but i don't know. They were serving. They were low, they were low level people at Versailles. um And this, this woman is born, er Ernestine Lambracat.
00:19:49
Speaker
And, you know, over time, just kind of because she's the same, like age as Maria Tres, they become, know, um very close kind of friends. um And they um you know, they're playmates in the palace.
00:20:12
Speaker
And when her mother dies, even though her father is still alive, the king and queen, um so this is Louis and Marie Antoinette, adopt ah this little girl, um which I'm assuming was not really a formal thing back then. They just kind of say like, okay, she's ours. so Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:20:30
Speaker
So she like kind of moves into their like quarters and she becomes kind of like a sister to Maria Therese. So back to Maria Therese, when she's released from the um temple, she's allowed to depart for Austria.
00:20:47
Speaker
um This man named René-Suzanne de Souzy, oh no, sorry, woman, was a governess, was is chosen to accompany her ah back to Vienna.
00:21:01
Speaker
um And...
00:21:05
Speaker
Basically, Maria Therese travels under the name Sophie um because you know there's still a lot of bad blood. And even though the you know interim government doesn't think that she's dangerous, there could be anti-royalists who like still just want her to die because she's like the yeah yeah for sure you know she's like the last remaining person of her family. So she travels under the name Sophie. Interesting. and um You know, basically they, they pose as sort of just like a kind of wealthy couple traveling, cause there are some men in her party. And according to the old conspiracy theory, um,
00:21:49
Speaker
when they reach the, at some point during this trip, they switch Maria Therese and, um, uh, Lombric, art Ernestine de Lombricat switch. And like, this was, and this was the plan all along so that the woman who arrived in this like remote,
00:22:08
Speaker
place was actually Maria Therese. And that's where she lived out her final days in seclusion. um And then ah Ernestine de Lombricat goes on to Vienna and basically becomes, ah so you know, a but like, Maria Therese. Yeah. um There are some weird...
00:22:33
Speaker
um you know, like things that happen during the, like the journey that they're on. um They basically like, like they request, like for instance, they request that Ernestine de Lambert cut, be the person who accompanies Maria Torres, but they, but like the French government claims they can't find her and anymore. like,
00:22:59
Speaker
and like yeah, there's just, like, all these rumors about this, um you know, kind of journey. Because, you know, it's, like, a weird time to be journeying. I mean, like, some of the people in their party are, like, essentially walking. And there's, like, a carriage and there's, like, some horses. But they're moving slowly through, like, remote countryside in a time when there was, like,
00:23:24
Speaker
you know, not even like, like not even like proper roads really. You know what I mean? So we don't actually know if this like Ernestina woman was actually traveling with them. Like that's not like confirmed or. um We're not um a hundred percent. Well, let me see.
00:23:42
Speaker
um We're not a hundred percent sure. Let me see what it actually says supposedly happened to her. Yeah, I mean, basically, in her, like, quote-unquote, like, what her true life was, she basically marries a widower and dies at the age of 35 in France. Okay. Yeah, so they they do eventually in two thousand and thirteen um like exhume this body and they they do mitochondrial DNA testing, which is like from the mother's line. And they prove that she's not related to Maria Antoinette, but they don't do any other sort of testing.
00:24:25
Speaker
um They don't do anything from like the patrilineal line or, you know what I mean? So like, there's like just kind of like, so like they make, they basically allegedly prove that,
00:24:37
Speaker
She's not in the maternal line of Maria Antoinette's descendants, but like I don't know science well enough, and I'm gonna wildly speculate in this episode in a minute, so just get ready for that. um So the other possibility um before you and I start doing theories is that she was this woman, Sophie Bata from Westphalia.
00:24:57
Speaker
um she would have been born to this merchant named Bada. And, but like, if it was just this like woman from, like this like merchant's daughter, like what was the big deal? like you know like Why would yeah i would she be like hiding like that? like they could have just No one would have given a shit if this count had married, or he wasn't. It turns out he wasn't a count. But no one would have given a shit if this wealthy guy just married. Yeah, anyway.
00:25:26
Speaker
ah yeah anyway So, oh, and they do eventually determine that the Dutch guy who was calling himself the Count de Versailles, like, did inherit a lot of money. So, like, there is also, like, this plausible, like, they find this, like, weird old paper that's, like, about a bank transfer, and he, like, did inherit money from, like, a grandmother or something. So he would have, like, had some money of his own. Like, I don't know if it was enough to really, like, live the lavish lifestyle they they ultimately lived, but...
00:25:59
Speaker
Anyway, the other possibility is that she was the illegitimate daughter of Emperor Joseph II. So she he she might have been born to Willemette von Bata, um but she wasn't... um she you know she wasn't She was actually the emperor's, like from an affair. Okay. The emperor of who? like Of which country? He was the Holy Roman Emperor at the time. And that title always confuses me.
00:26:33
Speaker
and Because that was like I feel like that changed a whole lot. But he was like basically a Habsburg. okay Yeah, it looks like, okay, because like, who the Holy Roman Emperor was, like, they weren't always born in, like, for a long time, when they say Holy Roman Emperor, emperor they're basically talking about the the part of Europe that was like Austria and Hungary and like, all those places, the Habsburgs.
00:26:59
Speaker
Okay, so maybe she was that guy's daughter. That has not been um disproven um in any way, shape, or form. So the other possibility is that she could have been a victim of kidnapping or cowork coercive control in some way.
00:27:16
Speaker
um A maid interviewed in the 19th century described her as being held held a prisoner. um They said that the count was controlling and drove her slowly insane and that the rumor in the household was that she was hid for political reasons.
00:27:35
Speaker
um And, but like, they don't really know exactly why no one no one, none of the servants know exactly. thing that's like kind of The thing that's kind of crazy about it is that like, I don't know, this is obviously a long time ago and like, they've obviously traveled like a long way. So it's not like, it's not like the people living there are gonna, they don't have Google or like the TV or whatever. So they're not gonna know, like,
00:28:04
Speaker
Even if they saw what she looks like, they're not going to know who that is. like You could tell people that it was anyone. So like I don't know, to go to such like lengths to kind of hide somebody's identity is just so bizarre.
00:28:18
Speaker
It's also interesting that like to live, and I'm going to go through a few more theories before I give like my own wild speculation, but it's also interesting to like live in such luxury if you're trying to sort of blend in i don't know. It seems like yeah it seems like there's probably a way to like still have a comfortable life, but not be so...
00:28:38
Speaker
flashy, you know, with that. Yeah, it's like it draws like more attention to yourself by virtue of the fact that you're being so mysterious. Like, like if you really wanted to stay hidden, you'd just like live on a farm or something.
00:28:51
Speaker
But that's why a lot of people like won't let go of the belief that she was an aristocrat because you have to remember the aristocrats at that time, particularly the royals, were raised to believe that they were ordained literally by God. like the Pope is the person who came and um you know like was at their coronation ceremonies and things like that. yeah So they would have believed that like to do that would have been like against their...
00:29:21
Speaker
Yeah, they're like heavenly mandate or So she could have been a politically endangered aristocrat of some other time. the Napoleonic era is happening during all of this time. um Yeah. So, you know, Napoleon's waging his wars. There could have been some other things. Okay. Okay.
00:29:42
Speaker
A few things to know, um the Countess never appeared unveiled, spoke only in French. Obviously, I've already gone over how they would have been exceptionally wealthy and how they maintained some sort of special ducal protection, which was very strange for two foreigners. So...
00:30:04
Speaker
so
00:30:07
Speaker
here's So here's for like some of the theories. Before you go off, but can I ask a quick question? Yeah. So what does the dunkographin mean? It means dark count.
00:30:20
Speaker
Oh, okay. So that's like the sort of nickname of the guy. yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. okay Because I was like, when you first said it, I thought it was going to be some kind of like monster or like vampire type like thing, but like... Oh no, but I'm going there. Don't worry.
00:30:34
Speaker
We're going to get to that. Yeah. So, yeah, so the the the Duke does write some stuff down um after her death that gets found. He compares themselves to being conjoined twins torn apart. He called their relationship um romantic and similar to an abduction. And he said that she was a poor orphan who paid him back a thousand times older ah over.
00:31:02
Speaker
um So clearly he was obsessed with her. Yeah. She must've been pretty hot. Well, we don't know. but um So yeah. So he, there are like fun transfer. ah yeah I already went over that. like Like they did find evidence of like a big, big transfer to him.
00:31:20
Speaker
Um, so, so yeah, right. During this time, there's like a drastic reshaping of Germans borders. Um, that's why they were like traveling through these States and there wasn't like necessarily always like clearly like who was in control.
00:31:36
Speaker
um like I said, they only compared her maternal line. So they, they don't have her paternal DNA. um, Yeah.
00:31:47
Speaker
So that's, that that's like, what's kind of like the above the board um theories that have like, no one really, like what's crazy is that like, no one really knows, like even to this day, like they haven't solved it, which makes me wonder if there's like some reason they don't want to solve it because it seems like it would be pretty easy to like, for instance, especially at this point now, 2025, like plug her DNA into like these huge DNA databases. And like, you know, surely you would be be able to get some evidence from that.
00:32:20
Speaker
yeah. she did Okay, so one one thing that people say is that she had, like, an extreme deformity, maybe. But when they, like, exhumed her body, the only thing that was going on was, like, really bad teeth. um Wow. Maybe she's brish. But that's, like, a normal... That would have been, like, normal at the time. Like, there wouldn't have been, like, expensive dental work or anything. um So, yeah, my theories that I wanted to explore is that she or he were, like, some sort of, like, supernatural...
00:32:51
Speaker
entity I kind of like that um the most.
Supernatural Speculations
00:32:54
Speaker
And that that's why she had to be hidden. i hadn't actually thought of vampires, but I thought of like something like she's part of some other...
00:33:04
Speaker
and kind of mythological like a species, like fairies or something, and she's the final you know like one of her race. um And like the aristocrats would have been aware of this kind of like supernatural ah thing, and that's why she would had to be hidden and all this stuff.
00:33:23
Speaker
So that was that was one ah theory i wanted to posit. How do you feel about that? Or vampires? Well, i and I initially thought like a vampire because of like the veil. So maybe she's like she can't go in the sunlight because she would like burn. So like they have to keep veiled all times.
00:33:41
Speaker
Yeah, she definitely didn't want to be in the sun. um That's clear. um So that was one. i did have some like supernatural explanation for it. I mean, there are literal bodies, so they were able to die.
00:33:56
Speaker
But I'm just kind of like... to exhume this body and do this, just this like one test on it and then kind of like release this paper, like, oh, no, no, that's true, buth blah, blah, blah, bye, the end.
00:34:10
Speaker
It's like, I don't know. Like, I don't know why they wouldn't try to figure out more, um which makes me think that there's some interest in keeping it below ground. Yeah, I don't really understand like that whole like mit ah mitochondria stuff. like That's like something that's like in your cells or something, right?
00:34:30
Speaker
Yeah, like you get it from your mom, I guess. Okay. i've ah I've only seen it in like movies. I watched like a movie recently that was about like um it was like if like the mitochondria in people's bodies like started becoming sentient and and like trying to take over the world. But like that's like the only thing I know about like mitochondria.
00:34:50
Speaker
yeah um But it's crazy that they can like test something like that off like a body so old and they even find out. like Obviously, they've not like told us who it is, but that they can find anything out. It's just insane.
00:35:03
Speaker
Yeah. So other funny things that I thought of, because I did i did promise a gay connection, is um someone in one of the subreddits, because I basically just did all my research on Reddit, I'm not going to lie to you guys. um Someone in one of the subreddits was like,
00:35:19
Speaker
Maybe she was actually a man and these were like secret male lovers. um oh that's kind of interesting. Like, yeah, she's like a lady boy. Yeah. And that's why they had to sort of hide it. I mean, i guess like in theory, when they exhumed the body, they would have been able to know that, but I'm not. a Yeah. You would think so, but I'm not a hundred percent sure because they only took like a small part of a femur. But I, yeah, I wonder if like,
00:35:49
Speaker
I guess I would need to know more about this testing to totally disprove that theory. But I liked the idea. i liked that idea. I thought that was an interesting, like, i because, you know my brain has been going like, what could possibly be going on? And I was like, yeah, maybe it was two men. and And there is a little bit, a tiny bit of stuff to go off of that because there are room, like a lot of times when people, especially at this time, were traveling,
00:36:14
Speaker
um kind of incognito, they would do things like that. Like they would disguise like a woman as a man or whatever to like get, to get them across borders and things like that. So, and there, and that was actually part of the Maria Therese rumor was that um basically, ah you know,
00:36:36
Speaker
um where was it?
00:36:41
Speaker
uh, uh, uh, Okay, yeah, Pierre de Salzy, one of the people traveling with him, um says that his son, René de Salzy... Oh, no, Pierre de Salzy... Okay, sorry. René de Salzy, who was the the the governess traveling with Maria Therese, it said her son, Pierre de Salzy, was traveling with them and on her passport, but she had no son by that name. So that would have been, like... ah
00:37:13
Speaker
Pierre de Sousy could like it. So there's a little bit of like cross-dressing potentially in the conspiracy theory because whoever Pierre de Sousy was could have been a woman kind of dressed as a man to sort of like hide.
00:37:27
Speaker
Um, it's funny they even had passports on like who the fuck was checking that? Yeah, that is crazy. I can, you imagine like airport security when they you have no airports. Um, and there is some other weird stuff, uh,
00:37:41
Speaker
So like the other possibility is that Pierre de Sousy was in fact one of the not daughters of René de Sousy dressed as a boy in order to make the travel group less identifiable as Maria Therese was estimated to have been exposed to threats not only from anti-loyalists but also from agents sent by foreign powers to kidnap her journey during her journey to the border. it is a fact that for some reason de Sousy, this governess, does try to blackmail Maria Therese.
00:38:10
Speaker
um and Maria Torres did pay the money to this, to this woman. She did just pay her. Whoever was like Maria Torres, like something happened on this journey that this, that this governess felt she could blackmail Maria Torres about and Maria Torres did pay her. That's like documented. Right. Um, so that's, and then like the last thing that, um,
00:38:35
Speaker
like ah Maria Therese's lady-in-waiting, Marie of Saxon, the Queen Mary of Hanover, her I guess that's who she eventually became, um but she was her lady-in-waiting at one point, did believe
Historical Intrigue & Speculation
00:38:50
Speaker
that the Dunkelgrafen was um something called the Princess of Khand.
00:38:56
Speaker
um And I think that basically means that would have been Maria Tres. I don't think those are different. It's kind of confusing to like get through all this stuff, but it's crazy anyway. So that's, so that's like, um yeah. So those are some like, those are some like possibilities. I've just been kind of speculating in my own head about like, you know, exactly. And it it is an interesting time to read about like,
00:39:25
Speaker
I read about, um, you know, when I watched the Maria Antoinette movie, I read about the woman who's, uh, played her best friend. Um, do you remember that character in the Sofia Coppola movie? kindness this The sexier one, like the dog head. Yeah. Yeah. The one who's like, Oh, um,
00:39:47
Speaker
Yeah. ah She's, she's fun in the movie and she apparently was super fun in real life. But anyway, like just reading about what happened to all these people, it was like really interesting because like she, you know, she's one of the people that Maria Antoinette like insisted leave, um you know, during like her, um like when she made all her friends leave, basically that's shown in the Sofia Coppola. And it's like,
00:40:17
Speaker
There's only one record of her after that. And she's like at some sort of party in like the Netherlands at the time. So it's just interesting that like all these people kind of just like kind of disappeared throughout Europe into like sort of semi-exile seclusion situations.
00:40:33
Speaker
Yeah. um Other possibilities besides a supernatural element or a gay element. um It is kind of crazy to imagine, like when I thought a lot about the possibility that this guy was just obsessed with this woman and like didn't want anyone else to see her and was keeping her captive for 30 years. that was Yeah. i mean That was sort of a terrifying possibility, you know?
00:40:58
Speaker
maybe Maybe they were Muslims and he was just like keeping her veiled. I don't know. I mean, i guess if he's obsessed with her and doesn't want anyone else to like see her beauty or whatever, like I don't know. I mean, that was that was sort of a that was sort of es strange... um But they didn't have any children. i mean, no one ever...
00:41:21
Speaker
or i guess So is he kind of like, is he like swarthy or is he like a white guy? He's one that is large, so I'm guessing he's pretty white. okay. Just curious, because I guess the name that they gave her sounds like Italian-y, but then it's a a lot of Italians are white, so I don't know.
00:41:39
Speaker
I kind of imagine, I'm trying to imagine in my head what she would look like. In my head, I imagine her as like a blonde with like pale skin, but like I'm probably just like reflecting I wanted to look kind of vampiric and ethereal. Can you think of any other like crazy theories that would explain this whole situation? don't know.
00:41:58
Speaker
When you were saying about like, ah Sorry, I was just going to say, like, when you were saying about people initially thought that it was the Marie Antoinette daughter girl, I can't remember her name, Marie or something. um Obviously, there was like a age discrepancy between the age that she was when she like left the temple and then it had been like nearly 10 years by the time that Well, no, there wouldn't have been. So like if she, that's what, that's what people, that's kind of what's part partially what started the rumor is he tried to say she was 58 when she died, but everyone in the village when they first arrived thought she appeared to be around 18, which I guess means that- But I thought that she left the temple when she was 18 and then this was like 10 years, eight like after that.
00:42:46
Speaker
e No. really she would have been 58 when she died. If it was her. I know it's not her, but like... Oh, you're right. It is about... you know i mean? but Because it's not inconceivable that like a 28-year-old woman could be very youthful, especially if you're never seeing her. I don't know. That's true. and you are you are correct that like basically we're talking 10 years later. Actually, like 12 years later. Yeah, pretty much.
00:43:16
Speaker
And there's no... and In the whole conspiracy theory, there's no... um there's no mention of what they would have been doing during those 10 years. I don't think it's inconceivable that they're just lying about the results and it could, it could just be her. Like, I don't know. It's not like the French don't lie about these things. Yeah. There could be a million reasons to lie about it too. I mean, the other thing that I was thinking about was like, um, I mean, not to mention that like the current descendants of the house of bourbon were like involved. And I guess this whole, like,
00:43:54
Speaker
you know, exhumation because they had to like volunteer their DNA. And I'm assuming that if they proved that it was, that like, it wasn't, if they proved this was Maria Therese, that kind of like completely invalidates ah any claim they have to being like descendant from the French royals.
00:44:17
Speaker
do you see what I'm saying? yeah If Maria Trace really did go live in seclusion and they're just, they're just the this family who like aided in this DNA testing just did this, um you know, they lose, I mean, which I'm assuming in France, like it still probably gives you some social stature to be able to say that you're like part of the house of Bourbon or whatever. I mean, isn't like Napoleon's like great, great, great grandson sort of like a socialite in France. Like I'm pretty sure.
00:44:48
Speaker
yeah Yeah, I'm sure I've heard that before. so yeah It's just like a cool thing to be able to tell people. like yeah Yeah, and I'm sure it does give you... I mean, I have no idea, but I would guess that like it gives you some rights to... like like I remember I was reading about in Germany like the great-grandson the Kaiser. like did attempt to like sue not that long ago, like five years ago, to like get some of like their their ancestral holdings back, the German government was like, no. But anyway, the point is, is like they you know I guess it does, like if they proved that it would take away these people these current living peoples, like any claim they have to like anything they could try to you know get back, whether that be social clout or just like literal access to wealth or whatever.
00:45:41
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. The other thing I was thinking about is that maybe they were just like... insane, like they had done something really insane. like maybe they had like killed someone or they were like running from some sort of crime.
00:45:56
Speaker
um There was, that you know, I kind of, ah kind of thought about that, like that there had been some sort of element where like they had done something. oh it just seems like a time period where it would have been really easy to get away with murder and stuff. like I think, I think it was, I mean, I don't, i don't know a ton of like European history, but like I,
00:46:17
Speaker
During sort of COVID, I kind of deep dived into a lot of British monarchic like history and stuff. and like There were all kinds of murders and shit going on that like people were covering up. It was pretty easy to go with, stuff like that for sure.
00:46:31
Speaker
um so yeah i don't know I still like the idea that maybe that that maybe she was like some kind of vampire or something, and he was her protector. Yeah. Also, think during the revolution, it would have been very easy to get away with all sorts of murder. Because, I mean, if you read about the revolution, it was, like, super chaotic. And they were just, like, killing people on the streets and stuff. So, like, I doubt there would have been anyone, like...
00:46:54
Speaker
enforcing any sort of laws. um Yeah, her being a vampire is definitely like the coolest option um or some sort of supernatural entity. The last thing I want to say about the gay thing is like the reason I kind of don't think that that's it is because just because I don't think it would have been that weird at this time period for like two men to live in like the same castle if they felt like doing that.
00:47:20
Speaker
Yeah, I do feel like the French as well, like they were definitely like sucking and fucking through like the French Revolution times for sure. I don't know. Yeah, and it wasn't like, there's this weird like kind of perception that like, you know, it like wasn't okay to like have gay sex in like any way, shape or form until like 20 years ago or something. But like if you read history, like,
00:47:43
Speaker
ah obviously it was like officially discouraged. And I think there's like obvious reasons for that, you know, but I mean, it was officially discouraged fine. But if you read about like, especially the aristocracy, like they did whatever the fuck they wanted. and there was tons. We had, yeah, we've, we've had literal like gay Kings in England, like more than one. Yeah. I mean, and every, and everyone knew. And like, if you were powerful enough, you got to fuck whoever you wanted.
Film Critique & Director Analysis
00:48:12
Speaker
There was no like, you know, prohibition for those people. So I'm just kind of like to go through all this, um, just to be with like two male, low I just don't think you would have had to do that. If you were rich enough, no one would have given a shit that you were you know, fucking guys.
00:48:31
Speaker
Yeah, you would just have made them, like, i don't know, like a a man of your, like, core or something. Right, right. I mean, that's what that one for that's what that one king did in England. He just made them all his, like, he, like, gave them Yeah, I think Edward II. He was also, like, one of the worst kings we ever had, but, like... We should do him someday too. There's actually a series with nichcola Nicholas Galatzen and ah Julianne Moore that, like, kind of talks about this, ah that king.
00:49:02
Speaker
Oh, I think I watched this. He's the guy from the Red, White, and Royal Blue thing, isn't he? Yeah, and they ruined him because he's going to be playing the Hulk or whatever, and they made him get, like, really roided out and muscly. So they they they ruined... I want to talk about Twink Death. They really...
00:49:22
Speaker
that I did his twink death. It makes me really sad because I thought he was, he was so pretty before. had a beautiful face. Yeah, he was very pretty. i agree. Um, okay. That's really my, my whole take on the, we I think we did a good solid 50 minutes. That's, that's my whole take on the Google graph. Well, before, well, before we finish, cause you mentioned, cause you mentioned Barry Shelley before, do you want to like briefly talk about Frankenstein? Cause we both obviously saw Oh, right. Yeah. Yeah. And she kind of does make a little bit of an appearance in here because like I said, um,
00:49:52
Speaker
see ah She was literally at the same time, um roughly, as these events I was talking about. She was famously traveling through Europe and kind of, and my like, it's not admiring is the wrong word, but she was very influenced by the wreckage of the French Revolution.
00:50:11
Speaker
um yeah You know, a very traumatic event. thing and of course she was a romantic and she was having her babies out of wedlock and you know she was doing all that stuff she was a she's a party girl um okay yeah let's talk about it let's do it frank and lordy ah i think you saw before me we both saw it in the cinema though and i I don't know. I, I, I haven't, there are very few of, um, Guillermo del Toro's movies I actually do like.
00:50:48
Speaker
So I, I feel like I should have gone in with like lower expectations, but I think in my head, I kind of, I think what i wanted from it was for it to be um, um Like a film that I could kind of double feature with Nosferatu from last year as like a sort of like cute, like monster double feature. But I loved Nosferatu and I hated this movie. Like really hated it a lot. I don't know.
00:51:16
Speaker
ah I really hated the makeup. I thought the makeup looked really bad, like in lots of the scenes. like I felt like most of the time that I was watching the movie, I was very conscious that I was looking at someone wearing makeup. Like it never looked like like skin. And I didn't mind necessarily that they tried to make him sort of sexy whatever, but like,
00:51:40
Speaker
Yeah, I just, i don't know. i I never like bought him as like this like creature that had been like put together from like different parts. And I hated, um what's her face, Mia Goth. And I usually really like her and stuff, but I just found her, I thought acting was really bad. I didn't really like what they did with the character. I didn't feel like it made Cause don't know, like I haven't read the book since like school, I don't think, but I, I, I feel they, they shoehorned in that kind of romantic thing between her and the monster. I feel like that wasn't in the novel or I don't know. I feel like maybe she wasn't as, um,
00:52:20
Speaker
the big of a character, I guess, like in the novel, but I did, I didn't really like what they did with her. Um, I liked the sets. I thought the sets were really pretty. um But yeah, I don't know. I just, I just found it really unsatisfying and I came away thinking like, oh, I don't know. It felt like, yeah, just a bit disappointing. I don't know.
00:52:42
Speaker
Okay. My take. Um, and I will admit that I've like basically forgotten about the movie. It was quite a while ago to be fair.
00:52:52
Speaker
Yeah. Um, but I mean like, it didn't really like stick with me in any way, shape or form. Um, um My favorite Guillermo del Toro movie is definitely Crimson Peak.
00:53:04
Speaker
um I think that was his best movie, in my opinion, just how I feel. um But, um and he, you know, i mean, you have to go into a Guillermo del Toro movie sort of like knowing what you're doing, which is kind of like you are going to get um kind of like fantasy, but like,
00:53:25
Speaker
it's going to be like a little bit like crap, like, like no offense. Like, you know what i mean? Like, it's going to be like, it's going to be like a sort of middle brow. It's going to be middle brow. I think Guillermo del Toro is a middle writer. So i like I, or like whatever director. So I like, I went in expecting something middle brow, like not something that would like,
00:53:42
Speaker
absolutely blow my mind um so the things i liked about it i did think it was very pretty i was happy that they didn't do that thing they've been doing lately where like everything has to be like so extremely darkly lit like i felt like there were some really bright scenes which was nice yeah yeah that's true ah And so that was that felt like a change for me from like kind of like the hazy like Instagram filter pastel that we've been exposed to so much um the last five to 10 years.
00:54:17
Speaker
And... and I guess the makeup didn't really bother me. I thought Alordi still looked hot, which made me happy. um Mia Goth is getting continually more annoying. Although i do feel like i sort of have to like still like her because she's just the type of chaotic like BPD woman that I just sort of enjoy.
00:54:46
Speaker
Yeah, I don't, yeah, I just, I just don't think she was the right fit for it. And I don't feel like, um I don't know. I feel like, like Guillermo del Toro, he's, he's one of those, like, on a kind of visual level, I feel like he sort of like,
00:55:04
Speaker
Like it didn't feel like a gothic movie to me. and And I kind of felt the same about like Crimson Peak. I feel like he he thinks he has like an understanding of like gothic as like a sort of a genre. and But when he makes like movies, it doesn't really translate that way. and Like it felt more like a sort of fairy tales type thing to me. um just in terms of like the visuals but i agree that i did like that it wasn't all like super dark but like i don't know yeah i i was just like uh because i because i really loved i mean we both like nosferatu i really loved nosferatu i thought it was so good and it's probably not fair to compare the two because they're not the same sort of
00:55:46
Speaker
like caliber of director on like a visual level, I don't think. But like, no, I mean, Eggers is like clearly like a genius of the craft or whatever. Although I'm like happy Eggers is still making cool stuff because I like officially hate Ari Aster. Like I'm not going to watch any more of his crap. um Even though I loved Hereditary and Midsommar.
00:56:07
Speaker
Yeah, I loved Midsommar as well. What was the last one that he made? I forgot. made Bo is Afraid and that sucked. And then I refused to watch Eddington. Oh, see, I refused to watch Bo is Afraid because i really don't like the... Joaquin Phoenix. The What's his name? Yeah, his cleft lip really freaks me out. So I was like, I'm not going to watch it. um But then I did watch Eddington because I saw that he had a mustache so you couldn't see it. Yeah.
00:56:33
Speaker
But I didn't i didn't like Eddington. I don't like these like COVID movies. I don't need it. like I didn't like the Dasher one either. i thought that was awful. But um I just feel like that's a period of like history that's like best left in the past. And i I don't want to go to the cinema to see that. like What do you mean the Dasher one?
00:56:52
Speaker
Oh, that movie, that, she did that movie that was about COVID as well, where she's like locked in the house with a boyfriend during lockdown. do you, did you see this? don't know. I only, the only. It was terrible.
00:57:04
Speaker
I watched her scare. I watched the Epstein one, which I did actually kind of like. um Yeah. I liked that one too. Yeah. RIP Dasha. She got canceled this week again.
00:57:18
Speaker
or um She'll be back. I'm not worried about her. My like interest in any of that stuff now that I'm Twitter free is just dwindled to like next to nothing. It's so nice just not knowing what's going on in the world of... like Yeah. It doesn't really matter.
00:57:34
Speaker
um i'm just saying Dasha, Mia Goth, is sort of like a... the type of woman that I'm like kind of always going to like want to watch and see because I just, yeah, me too.
00:57:45
Speaker
i sort of just like these, those type of, I mean, whatever. i mean, we're gay guys. Like those type of women are fun to be around. Like, you know? Yeah. Um, I love a sort of,
00:57:57
Speaker
dead-eyed benzoed out bitch who can deliver a deadpan like a deadpan also Mia Goth Mia Goth bagged Shia LaBeouf as well so she gets mad kudos from me for that because he's like my fave yeah and he's kind of cancelled so that's like why she has to like I feel like that's part of the reason she has to like work some Just because if they want to maintain their like, their like rich celebrity lifestyle, it's all in her. The last thing I'll say is I thought her outfits sucked. Like some people were like, oh my God, she looks so good. I thought that feather shit around her face. Like there's no way someone was like, oh yeah. And that looks good.
00:58:36
Speaker
That looks like crap. Yeah. No, I didn't like the outfits either. I thought they were really stupid. Yeah. Yeah. Is that guy, the Frankenstein guy, what's his name? the like Who's the guy? The doctor doctor guy. Oscar. Is it Oscar Isaac? Is that right? Yeah. Is he is he like super short? No, I think Alordi is just like super tall.
00:58:55
Speaker
okay. Because he kind of has like short guy energy to me. um I actually don't mind him. He was fine. But yeah. How much do you think Jacob Alordi weighs?
00:59:08
Speaker
I don't know, like 220 pounds.
00:59:14
Speaker
I have no concept of like... He's six five I don't know. 6'5", he's huge. He's Yeah.
00:59:26
Speaker
Anyway, when I'm Googling how much does he weigh? It's not coming up. His current weight isn't specified. well can't you like, can't AI like estimate? What's the point in these computer overlords if they can't estimate what somebody weighs? Yeah.
00:59:44
Speaker
Apparently he got skinny for Frankenstein. and You could kind of tell. Why is it giving me a weight in your you're stupid... What does it say? 87 kilograms.
00:59:55
Speaker
Oh, I don't know. I don't understand kilograms. You understand pounds? I only know... I know like stones and pounds. Oh my god. Okay. Well, he's very skinny.
01:00:08
Speaker
He's like 200 pounds at that most. So skinny? Well, for six five yeah. Like, in comparison, like, a six-foot person who would have the same physique as him would probably weigh, like, 150 pounds. would be, like, as thin as he is if you took five inches off him.
01:00:29
Speaker
think I'm like 140 pounds. We know. We know you're tiny. All right. Let's wrap this one up. All right. I have to go to the bathroom anyway. All right. Bye, Twinkies. Bye, Twinkies. We love you.