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Episode 5: John Wayne Gayboy
49 Plays20 days ago
Q and Biccy don their clown shoes to explore the twisted legacy of killer clown John Wayne Gacy and revel in the blood-soaked chaos of Terrifier and its sequels.
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Transcript
Introduction and Podcast Theme
00:00:36
Speaker
Yes, we're recording. hi welcome back to Queen Death. What are you drinking? um I'm drinking Orange Crush from Marks and Spencer's.
00:00:48
Speaker
I'm not having alcohol today. Yeah, because of our time difference, I'm still drinking coffee. I'm still waking up. so i think I didn't account for like daytime saving or whatever.
00:01:01
Speaker
Do you guys not do that there? Yeah. But we do it a different time, i think. Yeah.
Branding and Killer Clowns
00:01:08
Speaker
um We're still figuring out our branding, but I think now we've settled on doing a real so serial killer and a movie serial killer.
00:01:19
Speaker
so we, we kind of, um we did an episode with Nanny that was just about the substance, which was fun. So I think we can do that like every once in a while, but I like the idea of having like a, a true crime and then movie sort of like kind of links that a little bit think that's key yeah or a book because i guess the next one oh no the first one they heard was the sluts and stephen port yes true so now we're doing killer clowns and we're doing john wayne gacy and terrifier
00:01:54
Speaker
yeah All three.
John Wayne Gacy's Crimes
00:01:56
Speaker
I watched every single one of them. we're going to start with John Wayne Gacy. So did you get to actually watch the Netflix documentary? It's okay if you didn't.
00:02:09
Speaker
It's like the John Wayne Gacy tapes. Yes. So I watched the first episode. Okay. So I actually don't know a lot about John Wayne Gacy at all, apart from that he was a clown.
00:02:24
Speaker
um so the first episode they kind of they go a bit into like his past before he kills but like i don't actually really know anything about the murder so i'm kind of like interested to see but i know that he went to um prison for like bombing uh before he moved to chicago Yeah. so I've, I've watched the Gacy tapes a lot for some reason, listening to true crime as I fall asleep is like my comfort, ah TV. So i put on the John Wayne Gacy tapes.
00:03:00
Speaker
Um, as I fall asleep pretty ah pretty often, I would say. you know i've i' I've probably gone through the whole thing three or four times, but I'm gonna be honest that I'm not gonna pull up anything or do any extra research. So this is just from my memory, but I do feel like I've read a ton about him. And like I said, I've seen this documentary um and parts and pieces as I'm falling asleep, probably you know a total of four times all the way through.
00:03:28
Speaker
but yeah, so John Wayne Gacy was like, um This is going to be a Basil shout out, which he loves, but he was like a not gay TM serial killer ah because he explicitly does not identify as gay, although he only killed um young twinks and pretty much from all of his bat biographical information had um almost no interest in women. But Bickey's right. Before he moves to Chicago, which is where...
00:03:57
Speaker
at least all the known murders happened. um He was um convicted once of sodomy of a child, some some sort of statute like that.
00:04:12
Speaker
um And he went to prison for that. And then he gets out and he moves to Chicago. um and he marries this woman who already has two kids. um She seems sort of...
00:04:27
Speaker
homely And they don't have any more kids together. um and he seems pretty disinterested in like having sex with this woman. ah They do have some quotes about that in the documentary.
00:04:41
Speaker
But basically he gets involved in like kind of low level democrat politics in chicago ah this is back in the 70s 60s and 70s so it's more old school democrats it's like union bosses and uh organized labor sort of stuff um so definitely way way way pre any sort of like identity politics sort of democrat party it's like the old school working class democrats um and he lives in a sort of
00:05:12
Speaker
in america i don't know british class system is confusing to me but in america he lives in sort of a lower middle class uh neighborhood um which who knows i don't know what they would call that in britain there's really no way to compare the british and american class systems so the house like it was like a little bungalow type yeah yeah that would be i don't know what you would call that something like working class i guess i don't know Yeah, he's, anyway, basically one of the cops in the series describes it as like the house your grandma would live in which I thought was sort of like perfect. That's, and
Cultural Impact of Clowns
00:05:53
Speaker
america if you're an American middle-class person who's had some upward mobility in your family, this is like kind of the type of place your grandparents probably ah died in if you're my age.
00:06:07
Speaker
and But not on the inside. They did like a little bit of a tour on the documentary and like, well, they had like photos of it like inside and stuff. And it was really creepily like decorated with like clown portraits and things in like all the different rooms and like the the weird like um bright yellow like zigzags in the corridor. I don't know. It was there was but some interesting aesthetic choices going on inside.
00:06:36
Speaker
Yeah, so I guess it's worth mentioning now that he was really into being a clown. um So he would have these like neighborhood kind of block parties where he would invite, quote-unquote, important people in the like sort of democratic coalition. But it's it's worth reminding... like It's worth mentioning that this is very small-time, localized politics. None of this is... like um national level people. But, you know, he would invite, like, I'm just making up these titles because I don't know exactly who was coming to these parties, but, like, the city comptroller or whatever. Because he lived in this, like, small suburb of Chicago. So not even Chicago proper. So just kind of, he was really into, like, inviting people who were, like, and considered important in the community. But it's a small sort of...
00:07:31
Speaker
working class, lower middle class communities. And none of these people are like big, big wigs. It's not like the Obama of the time was like coming to these parties. um And while he, and at these parties, one thing he liked to do was dress as a clown. um And if you look at pictures of his,
00:07:51
Speaker
clown out ah costumes and outfits and I would suggest googling this if you're listening I mean it looks terrifying it's kind of crazy to me that at any point in history a clown was not considered terrifying so the archetype of like creepy clown yeah his clown outfit was like not like I don't know like it was not cheery.
00:08:21
Speaker
i wonder when clowns became considered like scary. was actually literally about to ask you the same thing. because
Gacy's Arrest and Discovery
00:08:30
Speaker
like i don't I don't think I know a single person who likes clowns or doesn't find them creepy.
00:08:38
Speaker
I don't know anyone who like has a sort of joyful memory of meeting a clown or anything. I think like whenever you meet them, it's always a little bit unsettling.
00:08:50
Speaker
Yeah, I'm looking at the Wikipedia page for clowns. I don't know. I mean, i guess they were like back in the day when people actually went to like circuses and things like that. Maybe they were more ah considered more clowns.
00:09:04
Speaker
like happy things. But I mean, I've never even actually seen a clown performance. I guess I've seen like in parks and stuff, like kids getting their balloon animals made by clowns. I don't know if that even still happens, but I do kind of have like vague memories of that as a child.
00:09:23
Speaker
But even then you can see children in like instinctually like freaking out and like running away from the clown.
00:09:32
Speaker
we We have a lot of like mimes here, like street performing mime people. or like Those those like people that dress up like statues and then they won't move and then they'll like move when you walk past and stuff. But like yeah, I feel like clowns have definitely fallen out of popularity as sort of like a form of entertainment. feel like they're just like our movie father.
00:09:56
Speaker
Yeah, I'm looking... Okay, the evil clown. Let's see. it says that the, i guess Edgar Allen Poe, a famous American, ah ah serial killer, or not serial killer, whoa, sorry, famous American writer, um he wrote a creepy clown story sometime in the 1800s.
00:10:20
Speaker
and Apparently, um according to this article, John Wayne Gacy himself, um whose whose clown name was Pogo the Clown, was kind of the source of the modern clown. So maybe Terrifier wouldn't even have been made without John Wayne Gacy. Yeah.
00:10:37
Speaker
It's interesting. Yeah, I did wonder whether he was like maybe the sort of the first sort killer clown. Yeah, I mean, he's listed as one of like the main origins of the um of like the killer clown stereotype.
00:10:56
Speaker
Tell me about these murders. Yeah. So anyway, we're, we're backtracking. So anyway, that's, that's like kind of the setup. Um, he eventually divorces this woman. i don't know when exactly. i don't know if he killed pre or post divorcing her, but eventually he's in the house alone and he starts, um,
00:11:15
Speaker
You know, it's kind of crazy that this, like, could even happen. And I don't, this is not a conspiracy podcast, so I'm not going to even get into that aspect of it. But basically, he he clearly had an interest in young ah men um or boys, mostly post-pubescent, like teenage boys. So we have another twink killer on our hands, like Stephen Porte.
00:11:41
Speaker
And he he just kind of like like, you know, he starts hiring all these boys ah to sort of work on his house, even having them construct ah some of the kind of underground layer where he... um where he like buries these, these bodies, um, which is really creepy when you think about it. These like boys are basically digging their own graves, but, um, he's, caught he's not caught or even like brought to the attention of authorities until, and this is the documentary really focuses on this.
00:12:21
Speaker
Um, he So he's already been convicted of rape of a child um like you know at some at some point, which is which is crazy to think about. But um so he's you know note but I guess this is before the... um They had the whatever they're called where the pedophiles have to walk around and like say that they're pedophiles, which is like a thing that they, they make them do now. So I guess this is before that. So anyway, he um, there's this one boy, Timothy, um, is this the right guy? Hold on. I want to make sure I'm getting this right. Uh, when does he get caught caught?
00:13:06
Speaker
Hold on, hold on, hold on. Sorry, everyone. I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm breaking Oh, Robert Peast. I'm breaking up my, ah I'm breaking up my promise not to look. Okay. So Robert Peast is when he gets arrested. So like by this, so this is a guy he's working at, like, he sounds like a,
00:13:21
Speaker
typical like sort of American, all American teenage boy, he's working at sort of a dollar store. And, um, basically he goes missing after he's seen with Gacy one night in the parking lot.
00:13:34
Speaker
And this is the beginning of like the end of his like criminal career, but and little does anyone know that by the time they, um get to, uh,
00:13:47
Speaker
you know, John Wayne, Gacy, like but by the time they like actually start investigating this, they find out he's murdered way more than this boy. But it's really sad. This boy was like, you know, the reason that it's, he's so quickly discovered as missing is because he was going to his mother's birthday party that night.
00:14:06
Speaker
um By all accounts had like a really, you know, cozy and like happy home life. um And that's why he's reported so missing so fast. But, but that he was not John Wayne Gacy's traditional um and victim because it turns out when they get to his house, and this is all in the tapes, they find 33 bodies,
00:14:32
Speaker
bodies um Oh, sorry, 26 bodies buried under his house. um And everyone's just like, what the fuck? There's 26 bodies buried in this house. And this documentary has some really graphic depictions of finding these bodies in various states of decay.
00:14:57
Speaker
The whole house smelled like, you know, um the whole house basically smelled like a like bodies. um And they start sort of unearthing these bodies and slowly but surely they're like piecing together like what happened.
00:15:14
Speaker
So it's interesting because you hear him talking in the tapes and he's he's den denied he denies it like all the way, like even when they're telling him like we found 26 bodies in your house. Like,
Social Context of the 70s
00:15:26
Speaker
they're asking him questions like, well, how could 26 bodies be under your house if you're in if you're innocent? and he's just giving like, really, he's like one of these people who I never trust people like this, but when you talk to him and ask him like straightforward questions, he like just kind of goes on these like long tangents. Um, and he seems like that was like the type of person he he just was.
00:15:50
Speaker
um But basically, his modus operandi ah was inviting these boys over and he would, um you know, give them drinks and smoke weed with them. And then, like, eventually, basically... um handcuff them and then like rape and torture and eventually murder them.
00:16:13
Speaker
But what's interesting about the documentary and about the tapes is that there was a lot of in weird instances of this going wrong like before he gets caught. So one man actually escapes and goes to the police. And this is this guy I think was like a man, like he was like an adult gay man. um And he goes to the police and basically reports that John Wayne Gacy had like tied him up and like raped him.
00:16:43
Speaker
And the police just like don't believe him at all. And basically just like, um say that, you know, he um like it was a consensual encounter, even though this man is like deeply, um like very, very injured and like ah beat up. So that, that happens before. And then there's also all these young boys in the neighborhood that sort of are like reporting weird um incidents with him. For instance, one boy manages to
00:17:20
Speaker
Basically, Gacy would like wrestle with these boys, and he but that was like part of how he would like get them into this whole thing. And he wrestles one boy down to the ground and manages to get the handcuff only on one of his wrists.
00:17:35
Speaker
And the boy manages to not only get out of the handcuff, but handcuff Gacy. um And then leave. And Gacy says to him, you're the only one who ever got away or you're the only one who ever got me into handcuffs. um And so, yeah. And then they have an interesting interview with this other guy who Gacy sexually assaults. um So there was, like, all these things happening, but, like, I guess, like, basically these young men, like, either didn't report it in any way because they just didn't see what happened as a crime, you know? Like, they just thought, like, oh, this weird, creepy thing happened and...
00:18:17
Speaker
I'm going to move on with my life. Or they were embarrassed to report it because they don't want to, you know, report like a sexual encounter of any kind, even if it's forced with a man or um the police just dismissed it as no criminal activity. So he gets away with a lot of shit before he's eventually arrested but his arrest is crazy so i'll let you talk first but i want to talk about what they how his arrest happens um but what yeah what were you gonna say i'm gonna say like do you think that the the police were like so quick to dismiss these allegations because he was quite a well-respected guy in the community or do you think it's just because it was like gay shit we don't want to know what the gays go up to like i don't know
00:19:07
Speaker
I think it was the latter because it just kind of seems like no one really, like, really respected this guy It seems like he just was one of those, like, kind of social climbing people that, like, inserted himself into, you know...
00:19:21
Speaker
um like social situations. Cause like even his wife like knew about his like previous, um, arrest for rape, but it just seems like no one even had the language at this time to like, think of like, uh, something that he did is like a rapist, you know, was like a man couldn't be raped. So it does seem like there's some like,
00:19:47
Speaker
homophobia of some kind going on. Not
Gacy's Legal Troubles and Trial
00:19:51
Speaker
to mention the 70s was a weird time in America where there was just a lot of kind of transient youths. um So a lot of these kids were um runaways and people who were sort of kind of traveling the roads across the U.S., hitchhiking, stuff like that. So this in America, there was just like kind of a weird, and probably in Britain too, but like after the counterculture of the 60s, there was a weird normalization period where there was just a lot of transient youth moving around the country, um obviously without cell phones and things that could like track them and keep track of them and things like that.
00:20:31
Speaker
Um, so that's, I mean, that's seemingly how he got away with it. But the part of what the documentary goes into, which is crazy is like his arrest is done in such a strange way because basically they,
00:20:48
Speaker
they like get a search warrant and they go to his house and they find all sorts of stuff. Like they find a syringe, ah like a syringe, handcuffs, books about homosexuality and pederasty, pornographic stabs, stag films, capsules of amyl nitrate, which is poppers, a dildo.
00:21:12
Speaker
um They find Valium, atropine, many driver's license, weird disguises, um underwear that's too small to fit Gacy. They find a class ring that's not his class ring.
00:21:29
Speaker
um So they find all this stuff, but I guess in the first search, somehow they miss the 26 bodies. Like they don't investigate further, but they know like at this point that something is up. So they start, um,
00:21:45
Speaker
they tail him for like a lot like a while. um and they are following him all around this like suburb of Chicago. And the whole time he's acting insane. Like he's like popping all this Valium and like drinking and like driving. And the police can't figure out like when to actually arrest him because it's like,
00:22:14
Speaker
therere they're trying to catch him doing something, like, bad. but they But, like, they also, he also is aware they're tailing him, so apparently they weren't very good at tailing him.
00:22:28
Speaker
I remember and in, like, the first episode of the documentary, they were talking about this, and they were saying that, like, um they tried tailing him without him knowing for, like, a day or something, but he figured out really easily. So they decided to go with an approach of, like,
00:22:44
Speaker
letting him know that they were tailing him. So they literally like knocked on his door and said like, we're going to be following you everywhere you go. um and apparently like the guys who were telling him would like follow him into like cafes and sit with him and have coffee and stuff.
00:23:01
Speaker
And he would like to talk to them. And I'm just thinking like um those, there was one instance where like, he he told the police that were tailing him that he had guys tailing them, and if they tried anything, he'd get these guys to kill them. And I was like, why wouldn't you just arrest him for saying that? like I don't know what it was like at the time, but in the UK, at least nowadays, if you threatened to like kill a police officer, he'd be arrested on the spot. So just seemed insane to me.
00:23:29
Speaker
Yeah, they even say that like like they thought about arresting him, you know... um when he's like taking all this Valium because obviously driving around erratically on roads and just popping, abusing prescription medication is also illegal. So it's like, I don't know why. at anyway, and they, they even seem confused. I mean, it just seems like their orders were like very confusing. Cause it seems like these were like young cops at the time and they like, didn't really like, they were just being told like, keep on him.
00:24:02
Speaker
Like, you know, whatever. Um, but eventually he goes to a gas station and he hands this kid, like, this is still back in the day when all the States had someone come out and like fill up your car for you. Um,
00:24:17
Speaker
And he hands the kid who's filling up his car, like a bag of weed. um and that's when they arrest him for a second time. um because now he has like given, you know, marijuana to a child, to a child.
00:24:34
Speaker
Um, so they get a second search, uh, uh, warrant. Um, and like, uh,
00:24:47
Speaker
I don't know. um like they eventually they like do find the bodies like finally. Um, and they interview these two boys who were sort of like the main workers at his house. And even these boys were like, yeah, like he attempted to rape us and stuff like that.
00:25:09
Speaker
Um, like it just seems like he was getting away with like a whole lot of shit, but they ended up finding 26 bodies underneath his house. Um, the second time. So of course he's, um, arrested and, um, they basically, I mean, all the stuff is very seventies. Like they let him get like drunk, um, like during the interrogation. So he's like in these tapes, he's just sort of drunk and rambling, but basically his story is just kind of like, these were all sort of,
00:25:45
Speaker
like male prostitutes. And it seems like there's some evidence that like some of them were, but he tries to sort of claim like some sort of self-defense,
00:25:57
Speaker
like, you know, like motive because these were like prostitutes trying to rob him. But obviously like no one believes when you have 26 bodies under your house that that, anyway, obviously at this point they're onto him and he does, you know, he does eventually get caught, um, arrested and executed.
00:26:21
Speaker
um
Speculation on Accomplices
00:26:22
Speaker
and the documentary actually shows the day of his execution. There's like tons of, um, you know, ah like people outside the, this is like crazy to me now to even imagine, because stuff like this doesn't happen anymore, but there's like tons of like crowds outside the prison, like cheering on his execution and stuff like that, Or
00:26:47
Speaker
who or like, or did he just continue with like the ah kind of self-defense thing the whole way through? It doesn't seem like he ever like really fully confesses, like, you know, like i was like a predator who targeted these men.
00:27:08
Speaker
Um, and so they don't, so like, what's kind of sad about the story is like, they never get the full story because they don't like, even to this day, they're still making efforts to like identify these boys, um because they don't know who all of them are.
00:27:27
Speaker
and um, there's obviously a lot of speculation about like, if he was even able to do it himself. Um, and,
00:27:41
Speaker
it seems kind of impossible that he would have been able to do it all himself, which, you know, kind of has led people to believe like, were all these sort of like, or were some of these like politicians and stuff that he was involved with, like also involved in some of this, because like, how could he have gone on for so many years? um But, you know, all of that ends up being like really vague and there's no proof of um any of it. yeah.
00:28:11
Speaker
Seems like when they like showed like the inside of his house in the documentary series and the police officer was talking about like the time that they went with the first warrant when they didn't find the bodies.
00:28:22
Speaker
He was saying that he like, he looked in the crawl space and they were like looking for like mounds to like see if there were any bodies in there. And obviously there weren't, it was all sort of brief flat.
00:28:34
Speaker
um But I was thinking like, how is this like, huge fat guy climbing through this like tiny little entrance into like a crawl space to like bury a body like that just the practicalities of even like getting in there seem like suspect to me i don't know yeah like i said it seems impossible that he could have like done all himself um But i mean, it was, this like I said, this, this investigation was a wreck. It was the seventies in America. There was a lot of, um, just like mismanagement of, you know, cases like this. Um, it seems
Serial Killers: Past vs Present
00:29:14
Speaker
like almost certain that these like young guys who were like his main, um, sort of employees were at least, uh,
00:29:26
Speaker
like involved in the and the, like some of the murders. um And they do have, ah like, the guy who actually did try to report being, like, tied and tortured and raped said there was someone else there.
00:29:44
Speaker
So they do have some evidence that, like, other people, I mean, I think it's almost certain there were other people involved in what happened, but um they never, no one else was ever, like, convicted or anything like that.
00:29:58
Speaker
yeah. Very creepy story. um And yeah, there's just a lot of, there's still at this point five unidentified victims, um which is also crazy when you think about it, because I just, I can't imagine like, I don't know. It just, if all these bodies are of um teenagers and it's like, you'd think that someone somewhere would, uh,
00:30:32
Speaker
it's like so much bigger than like the uk so i feel like it's it's probably easier for like people to slip through the net than it would be here but like yeah you'd think that they'd have like i don't know a mom or a dad like somewhere that's like desperately trying to find them i don't know Yeah, I mean, I think it was just sort of a chaotic time in America. And like I said, there had just been like a massive kind of cultural upheaval. And like most of the big serial killers were operating in the 70s when there was sort of like a breakdown of...
00:31:08
Speaker
social norms in the US and like nuclear families and things like that. So, and there were just like huge groups of like, not traveling together, but just like thousands and thousands of like kids who were sort of like out in the streets and stuff, you know?
00:31:25
Speaker
Like, I always wonder this, like how many like active serial killers there are like nowadays compared to like back then. Cause all the big ones, you're right, that all the big ones are around sort of like the seventies and like maybe eighties at the time.
00:31:39
Speaker
Well, I have opinions on this, but we should we should read, um you should read Program to Kill because once I read Program to Kill, I had a lot of suspicions about the fact that there was like this one singular period in America right after Vietnam where there were a ton of serial killers um who almost all had a military background.
00:32:02
Speaker
But would guess that part of it is just... to be perfectly, i mean, if you don't want to go the conspiracy route, I think the truth is just like, there's, um,
00:32:16
Speaker
it's almost impossible now to get away with that much. Like we're surveilled so intensely. I mean, especially in the UK, I think about that, like the amount of CCTV and stuff, it's just like, I don't, I mean, and but like our credit cards and like, you know, every time I get on the subway, I have to tap my credit card. I mean, like my movements are like super accounted for as are everyone's. We carry around these like GPS tracking devices with us everywhere.
00:32:45
Speaker
so I just, I just think probably, probably if there's not some sort of conspiratorial answer, the answer is just like, now people just get caught after a singular murder, you know?
00:32:56
Speaker
I do try. I do like thought experiments sometimes where I think about like how I would like get away with murder. And it does seem so difficult these days, like compared to probably how it used to be.
00:33:09
Speaker
i
Potential Media Adaptations
00:33:10
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, I think it would be almost impossible now because it's like. even Even like in my building, like I don't have CCTV in my flat, but like as soon as I leave and I'm on the corridor, like I'm being recorded, it's, it's, it would just be impossible.
00:33:25
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I live in, like, a not... I live in a building that only has two apartments. it's like, a duplex. And even we have, like, ring both apartments have, like, ring cameras and stuff like that. So even as we, like... Like, this building, we could, like, choose not to have it, but we, like, happen to have...
00:33:44
Speaker
um ring camera. And then like I think about how like every house on my street probably has ring cameras. So it's like when you walk past, like it gets activated. you know like You're just getting like filmed like as you walk down the street.
00:33:58
Speaker
So I don't know. i don't I don't, yeah. I mean, I think the only way, i do i do do thought experiments like that. I also do thought experiments on like faking your own death. um And both things seem impossible now, but they did seem possible at one point.
00:34:12
Speaker
people You could maybe conceivably like fake your own death online, but not in like real life, I think. be too difficult. and Before we like start talking about Terrify, I wanted to... um Obviously, in like the previous episode, we talked about the like Menendez brothers and like the monster show on Netflix.
00:34:35
Speaker
I wanted to know whether you think that Ryan Murphy is going to give John Wayne Gacy the monster treatment at some point, or whether he's avoiding it because he wasn't hot. Yeah, he's just not gonna do it because he wasn't hot.
00:34:47
Speaker
i could see them casting like a sort of I don't know, James Gandolfini type though. um and Trying to sort of sex it up. I don't know. Yeah, I just think he' it's not like, I think Ryan Murphy's too like salacious. Like if the if the murderer wasn't, because like, you know, whatever his name was, well we'll we'll probably do him at some point, but Dahmer was sort of hot. The Menendez brothers were hot you know?
00:35:14
Speaker
I think the next one's like, is it Ad Gein? Is the next one that he's doing? Yeah. I mean, he also, I found out did, um, um, he also did, um, what do you call it? Um, he recently did Aaron Hernandez, the, which maybe we could do too, but the,
00:35:35
Speaker
the gig the gay football player who killed two people and kept playing football. And that was like, so i watched like maybe three episodes of that. And that was like, so like horny. Like the whole thing was just like, Oh, this stud football player with a big cock, like likes to fuck all these. I don't know. it was just like, everything about it was like, so like salacious, you know? remember having friends like, wow. That was like,
00:36:05
Speaker
Wait, you cut out again. Say that again. never even heard of him. Like, Well, that one was super recent. Like, that's why it's funny he already made, it's like, it's like he only like, it's like he waits for like a hot one because that was only like, I don't even know, like maybe like six or seven years ago. Like that wasn't even like Aaron Hernandez, if he was still alive would be my age, our age now, he would be like in his mid thirties.
00:36:29
Speaker
So I don't, i mean, but yeah, that one was put to the top of the pile. Clearly Ryan Murphy was like, we need to get that out on TV ASAP. We wonder what's going to happen with the Menendez, whether they're going to end up getting out of the back of his show.
00:36:45
Speaker
Do you think they should get out? I don't, personally. i I think we're kind of going off topic, but it's fine. um like think regardless of your motives, if you like shoot your parents in the face, like you should stay in jail. I don't know.
00:37:02
Speaker
I feel like...
00:37:05
Speaker
don't feel like I don't feel like anything that may or may not have happened to them like justifies like that level of violence. Yeah, me neither. And I also don't think you can claim self-defense short of, like I mean, I i think like self-defense is valid, but like I think it has to be you're an imminent.
00:37:24
Speaker
like Yeah, like at the time. like If they were getting attacked by their parents and they're like... Yeah, at that level. That's completely different. Yeah. I mean, the only way I could ever see myself ever killing anyone is like, truly, it would have to be like a home invasion scenario.
00:37:42
Speaker
And then I could like see it, you know what I mean? Like if someone like broke into my house at night and was going to like kill me and my partner. yeah I could definitely see myself grabbing like whatever, grabbing some sort of blunt object and just freaking out. But yeah.
00:37:59
Speaker
and point but all right let's talk about terrifier because i did watch all three of these movies in order to talk about them with you you had you like not seen them at all all before before i asked you to watch i'd seen that picture of the clown so i i was aware of this like but i didn't know anything about it and i was i will say that i was surprised by what it was when i watched it So yeah, so the terrifying movies, I think the first one came out like, was it like 2021 maybe?
00:38:29
Speaker
Or maybe even like, no, it might even be earlier. um But there the clown character, art the clown, he originates in like a short film that the director made like years before and that was included in an anthology called like All Hallows Eve.
00:38:46
Speaker
um It's kind of a There's an anthology of different stories that are all kind of like linked by like Art the Clown. And in that movie, he's sort of explicitly shown to be like a demon sort of character.
00:39:05
Speaker
um Whereas in the sort of trilogy, that's kind of something that like fans have kind of been sort owing and owing about, like whether he's human, whether he's a demon and that kind of lore kind of gets explored throughout the movies.
00:39:19
Speaker
Yeah, i had I texted you about that because I was confused. I was like, are we supposed to believe this is like... Because I obviously didn't see that pre-film. So that was definitely a question I had. Is like art supernatural? so the the first movie, um in terms of story, the first movie is the most simplistic. It takes place on Halloween night and these two girls, tara and...
00:39:46
Speaker
um remember the other girl's name, but it doesn't really matter. because she gets Well, they both get killed. um But yeah, it's these two girls who are coming home from like a Halloween party. um They're too drunk to drive, so they decide that they're going to go and get pizza.
00:40:03
Speaker
And they meet Art the Clown, who's sort of teasing them when he sort first introduces himself to them. He never ever speaks. He's like a violent...
00:40:14
Speaker
killer. like like smoking I liked it because, I mean, I'll just mention this for like film buffs out there. the The budget was only $35,000. And it's a pretty interesting story. Like you can you can tell they didn't spend much on it, but it's like a very contained, like they only needed like four actors to do this, you know?
00:40:35
Speaker
so And I think for for such a low budget, like the the gore effects are so effective. um And that that's like one of the things that sort of ramps up from movie to movie. But even in the first one, they're like the most sort of iconic scene is the blonde friend she sort of gets like strung up and he uses like a sword, like saw her in half from the vagina to the head that it's all shown pretty much on screen.
00:41:08
Speaker
Um, yeah, I mean, it's, I would say, I mean, I guess you' we're going to get to the kills in a minute, but all the kills sort of have this, like, I mean, I think a ah critique of this I'm sure has been levied is that it's like basically torture porn.
00:41:22
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I, it's weird because, um, when we were talking about the sluts and I was quite squeamish about like the contents in that book.
00:41:36
Speaker
And I remember saying like on the pod that I just found it really like uncomfortable listening to these like graphic depictions of sex and stuff. But then not like I can watch something like Terrifier without even flinching. And I find it funny like there's there's There's humour in the sort of gratuitousness of the violence, I don't know. Because I've seen like i've seen like real extreme violence, like videos on the internet and stuff of like bad things happening to real people. And obviously that feels different.
00:42:11
Speaker
um But yeah, i don't know. I just find it like gleeful. I'm sort of giggling like a little girl whenever I watch the terrifying movies.
00:42:21
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, i yeah, I was shocked by it, but and a I wouldn't say it was a totally unpleasant feeling. Like, i definitely laughed.
00:42:32
Speaker
um I mean, in the third film, there's a scene where he literally, like, fucks a guy with a chainsaw. um So the deaths are like really fun. They are funny and they are so extreme and insane that it's like, you have to eventually laugh, which is kind of how I feel about the sluts too. It's like, at first, like everything that's happening in the sluts is like believable. But then like, as it goes on, it becomes more and more clear that it's like these like twisted fantasy elements, you know? um
00:43:04
Speaker
And yeah, I just was like, Yeah, terrifier is not really believable. But I had to, I eventually just had to accept that this person is a demon from hell and like there is a supernatural element to it. when I tried to explain it to myself otherwise, I just like, it just didn't make any any sense, you know?
00:43:25
Speaker
There is a kind of like mostly accepted, um, like, lore now of like, Art the Clown that, like, most of the fans kind of agree upon, which is the idea that, like, in the first one, he's a human for, like, most of the movie.
00:43:43
Speaker
And then, like, after he's killed, he's, like, brought back by a demon. And the demon is, like, the the little girl sort of character in the second one. And then sort of transfers her...
00:43:55
Speaker
I just listened to the really ugly-faced woman in the third one. So it's kind of most of the fans, and I think the director's like confirmed it, um that he's he's supposed to be a human in the first one, but then he's obviously sort of under the control of like some kind of like demonic force in the other two.
00:44:15
Speaker
um The second one is the coziest one, i think. Yeah, I would agree. The second one is my favorite. I think the... I think the law of the second one is kind of a mess and all, ah all over the place, but like the, I really like the main character Sienna. Like, I think she's like interesting and cool and she's hot and, um, yeah, I don't know. It definitely has a cozy vibe and it's, it's,
00:44:43
Speaker
The stuff with like the drugs in it, where she goes to the party and her friends like spikes a drink with Molly, like that was very relatable. And the conversation she has on the phone with her mom when she's like on drugs, I found all of that stuff like very relatable.
00:44:57
Speaker
I feel like the second one has, has a little bit more heart than the first one. Definitely having the family at the core of it. Like, um, and it's, a it's, I will say it's slightly better acted.
00:45:12
Speaker
Yeah, for sure. Like the first one is like, I mean, I think, mean I mean, I still thought it was fun because it's supposed to be like a kind of like a B, like a B horror movie. But like, yeah, the first one, those two girls were like really phoning it Yeah.
00:45:30
Speaker
At the same time you've got, I think, like, I don't know. They were given a job in, like, a $35,000 movie. ah Oh, I'm sure they, like, I'm sure that this was, I mean, i don't know, but I'm sure it was filmed over, like, three days and these girls got, like, $1,000 to do it. So, yeah.
00:45:47
Speaker
I wouldn't, and they probably had no idea, which is kind of what's cool about it, is they probably had no idea that it was going to become, like, a, like, sort of horror classic, you know? Yeah.
00:45:58
Speaker
I think it's, It's been a really long time, i think, probably not since Ghostface from Scream that we've had a kind of iconic horror villain, really.
00:46:10
Speaker
I mean, there's a few like big horror films that kind of break containment, but it's the first time that we've had a kind of... don't know what a word is... No, I mean, he's like a clear villain. Cause even other like weird little horror films that like ended up being really big, like Skinnamarink or whatever.
00:46:28
Speaker
i mean, those don't have like a clear, like, you know, kind of like iconic villain because art is like so iconic and like the makeup is like so specific and it's like.
00:46:43
Speaker
he's kind I feel like he's kind of reached the point where like you don't, necessarily need to have watched these movies to like recognize the image of all the clown. I feel like he's pretty broken into the mainstream. There were like kids dressed up as him at Halloween and like that they're never going to have watched these movies. yeah like i I would hope not.
00:47:00
Speaker
Before I've seen the movie, like I knew that that picture of that clown. like I was like aware of that like image. So I do think it's a pretty iconic um image. And what I thought was fun about it was like, I, as someone who does like and watch sort of the like highbrow horror, I know people like to make fun of it, but like Hereditary and Midsommar and like all these like sort of a twenty four films. Like I do like that, like horror has gotten a sort of highbrow treatment in the last you know decade or so, but it's fun to also watch stuff like this, which is like not even aiming for that at all. It's nice to have a little bit of a lot.
00:47:44
Speaker
And I think it's, I don't know, I do watch a lot of like extreme gore movies. um So like, even though the gore wasn't necessarily like upsetting or whatever to me, like I was shocked at the fact that they were able to put movies this gruesome in the cinema.
00:48:06
Speaker
like because Because you really don't get that nowadays, I find. like I went to see... I'd already seen the first two like at home, but I went to like a double feature before the third one came out, and I watched like one and two, like one after another like in the cinema.
00:48:22
Speaker
And i was just thinking... like I've never seen anything this gory like in theatres before. i don't know I don't know what it's like in America, but like movies like that just don't really...
00:48:35
Speaker
Am I all in this in head? Yeah, I'm trying to think. I mean, the last film i can remember in America, this is going to sound really funny, but the last film I could remember being like controversially gory was actually The Passion of the Grace.
00:48:56
Speaker
it's Yeah. No. Like that's the last film I can remember there being like articles on like, is this violence like too much, you know?
00:49:07
Speaker
I actually, um I only watched The Passion of the Christ for the first time during COVID. I watched that was like one of my lockdown movies. um And yeah, it is pretty intense, especially if you come from like a Christian background. I think it's it's quite tough to watch in places like that.
00:49:27
Speaker
i mean Yeah, but I can't think of another movie that like is like that has this much gratuitous violence in it but and just doesn't even try to... like like We both watched In a Violent Nature yesterday, um which we won't talk about in depth, but like I thought about how like even this is like a slasher movie that's like sort of I only watched half of it so far, so maybe it changes, but at least and the as far as I've seen now, he's killed a few people and it's like not gratuitous at all.
00:50:02
Speaker
Oh no. It gets really gratuitous. um Yeah. I would say outside this, there's one death in particular that I'm thinking of that is extremely extreme.
00:50:16
Speaker
and I think, It's different because within the sort of like the vibe of In the Violent Nature whatever it's called, is it's got this kind of like plodding, slow energy because you're like following the killer like all the way through the movie. And even though it's kind of intercut with these like scenes of extreme violence as it goes on, um it's not a...
00:50:42
Speaker
you're not bombarded with it. It's not just like constant the way that like some of the terrifying movies are. And the thing that I found interesting wasn't really just that they put them in the cinema, but that so many people have gone to see these movies. Like they've been the the second one and the third one, especially like the third one was like the number one movie here for like weeks. and i it It amazes me that that there are that many people who would want to go and watch something that's extremely nice. It's kind of cool.
00:51:13
Speaker
Well, i think what it's like brought back, which is, which I think is cool is like, it's brought back the sort of, um what's the word I want to use? Like, I remember when I was a teen, like horror movies were really popular to go see with like a bunch of like other teenagers.
00:51:31
Speaker
um And I feel like Terrifier has really like brought back And a a few other films too. But like recently it seems like there has been this resurgence of like groups of teens going to see horror movies together and all like laughing and being into it, which I think is sweet. Like I usually hate when anyone like talks or makes like a single sound in a movie, but I enjoyed when I saw Terrifier 3 seeing like a big group of like, you know, kids together, like act sort of acting up. but
00:52:03
Speaker
It was a similar experience to mental to understand substance like The I felt like when I watched Terrify 3, there was a lot of like audience engagement. like People were kind of just like laughing and it's sort of cringing and stuff, but the gore. and Yeah, it was it's a fun experience.
00:52:22
Speaker
Because I'm one of those people, I get so annoyed when people talk and stuff in movies. But if I'm watching like a fun thing like this and people are reacting, I get like bit a kick out of it. It's nice. Yeah, i I usually am like insane if anyone um like makes even a sound in a movie.
00:52:44
Speaker
But i enjoyed i enjoyed this um and enjoyed this a lot. Like in Gladiator 2 yesterday, someone's phone like pinged once and I had like violent, intrusive thoughts about like going over and like grabbing their phone, you know?
00:52:59
Speaker
Kind of a funny experience when I went to see Terrify 3 because i
00:53:07
Speaker
This is bad. There was somebody with like some kind of like special needs sat in the front row like I think with like a carer or someone who was looking after him.
00:53:18
Speaker
And he kept making these... like really weird shrieking noises and i couldn't tell whether it was like the movie for like the first few minutes so that the whole like um opening scene where it's he's sort dressed up a Santa and he breaks into like that family's house and just merges them all like every sort of few seconds this guy in the front row would just go ah And I was just like, oh my God.
00:53:45
Speaker
they It got to the point where I was going to go and complain about him. But then I was like, this I don't want to be the evil, evil man who complains about the retard in the front row of screaming.
00:53:58
Speaker
I know you're so sick of hearing me talk about Wicked, but when I went to the pre-screening, it was like, I guess they were like for once really strict about phones. Cause technically it was like, you know, like five days before like the official premiere. so like, I actually got really freaked out for a minute because I was, someone pulled out a phone in my row and one of the theater employees started crawling like on the ground, like through our row to go to her and yell at her about her phone.
00:54:28
Speaker
But like, I just was looking up at the screen and suddenly I looked down and there was like a woman like crawling, like right by my feet. It was very weird, but I appreciated her. Like, you know, i appreciated the effort, you know?
00:54:43
Speaker
It's almost like lynching, like the idea of like just looking down and seeing this like, ugh. Well, at first I thought I was like, oh no, I was like, is there some interactive element to this? Like at first I thought like something was gonna happen. Like that was my first thought. I was like, oh, she's gonna do, like, she's gonna like, cause I was at this pre-screening and I read nothing about it. so I was like, oh, is she gonna like pop up and start like dancing or something? But no, she was just going to yell at someone who was on their phone.
00:55:12
Speaker
Would you say that number two was like your favorite of the three that you watched? Yeah, i I did. I would say that, which I'm a little surprised by because I love Christmas horror. So I thought it would be number three, but I think the main actress, like you said, at number two is like the most compelling to sort of follow.
00:55:31
Speaker
like I did enjoy number three when I went to see in the cinema. I really, really hate the Vicky character. You know, the like deformed woman that he disfigures in the first film. she's see Apart from ah she's the only character who's in like all three movies.
00:55:48
Speaker
yeah I hated their kind of team-up aspect of like the third movie because i just I just don't like her at all. I don't like looking at her. and I felt like the whole sort of like final act it was like I just want to see art doing stuff I don't want i don't want you um and i I did have some reservations about where it's going to go in the fourth movie because so I'm just going to assume that people who are listening to this have seen the movies but it kind of ends with like a Vienna's cousin getting like dragged to hell and it's sort implied that she's going to like go down there and
00:56:31
Speaker
sort of get her back and that's going to be sort of the premise for like the fourth movie um so yeah i'm i'm curious to see whether like art will take a bit of a back seat in the fourth one for them to sort go on that sort story beat but i don't know they can't do too much of that though because like he is the draw He is. And I, one thing that I will say, it's like the guy who plays him is so good.
00:57:01
Speaker
And he gets better, I think, each movie. Like, even though I like the second one more, I thought his performance in the third one was, like, hilarious. Like, every time he's on screen, I'm just like, I just think he's so charming.
00:57:15
Speaker
And it's nice to see him do, he does a lot of, like, band stuff like outside the movies like in costume and like he stays in character when he goes to these like events and stuff and i love all of that stuff i think it's really sweet i'm looking him up now i've never seen him out of makeup he's like very like normie looking yeah i was was i wondered if he was hot he's not hot just sort of he's like average kind of average looking guy i don't know whether he's gay he seems kind of gay to me but like i don't know
00:57:48
Speaker
I mean, I would say, like, art...
00:57:54
Speaker
mean I mean, don't want to say art is gay, because that's, like, a kind of dumb take. But I do think art is, like, sort of, like, coded in this way that's kind of, like, a scary, campy, like, drag sort of thing a little bit. Yeah, yeah.
00:58:09
Speaker
ah so for sure. I mean, I don't think he has a sexuality, but I think, but I, like, in any sense, like, I don't think his motives are primarily sexual, but I mean, he seems sort of, like, there is this, like, yeah, I mean, he's sort of, like, serving a lot, and he does, like, crazy looks with his face and stuff like that. there's, I mean, there's the memorable sequence in the first movie where he, like, chops off a homeless woman's breasts and, like, wears them with, like, a
00:58:41
Speaker
I think he scalps her and like puts her hair on as a wig. Yeah. Walking around and sort of embodying like a woman. and Yeah, I don't know. it's He's definitely campy. He definitely has like a campy sort of... And the that this actor brings sort of a campy element to the whole performance.
00:58:57
Speaker
um But I think it's like, I kind of am like, I don't like doing that whole, like, is this horror character queer earth stuff just because the most annoying people I know on the planet are really into doing that. So I just like, I'm like, I don't know, like the way you guys have defined queer, I'm sure like every horror character, character is queer because you guys have made this you've turned this word and the definition is just like freak so yeah any any like really freaky scary character of course could be called queer but i'm just a gregious example of that for me was like when they tried to turn the babadook into like a gay icon i was like what the fuck is this about like there's nothing gay about the babadook
00:59:43
Speaker
They also, like, they also, like, when they were doing that, it's, like, it's, like, all these, like, really, like, it's, it's kind of funny because it's, like, they almost, like, fuck up their own game because it's, like, all the things that, like, make the Babadook quote-unquote gay are, like, um, like, sort of mean to gay guys.
01:00:02
Speaker
Like, it's like single, lives in a basement. Like, just like all this stuff that's like, I don't know. But I also think gay guys, i will give I will give gay guys this. Like, they are funny. And I do think sometimes they do that stuff because it's just sort of like funny to say, you know.
01:00:20
Speaker
Why do you think gay people like horror so much? Like, what do you think? Because it just feels like there's a dime dozen. Every single gay guy that you meet is like a huge horror guy. Like, where do you think that comes from?
01:00:33
Speaker
I mean, well, first off, I think the only people who see movies now are are gay pe are gay guys, basically, and women. Like, I don't think anyone else, I don't think straight men ever go to the movies anymore. And I've had many i've had many straight men confirm that to me, that, like, it's just, they're not made for them.
01:00:50
Speaker
um i also think that, like, a ton of the people who are in Hollywood are currently and have always been gay. Or, again, we have to give Basil's terminology a shout out, but there's a lot of men who fuck men in Hollywood and that's always been true.
01:01:08
Speaker
I mean, even like the greats, like the Marlon Brando's and stuff, like, you know, so I just think a lot of, I think there's a lot of like subtle sort of um gay male aesthetics in a lot of these films. And then I think lastly, like gay guys just are, they are able to,
01:01:28
Speaker
watch a horror film and appreciate like the humor in it in a way that I think like people who are like sort of strictly heterosexual, like just don't do because they just don't have that type of humor, you know?
01:01:45
Speaker
always loved horror. I don't know what it is about it, but like ever since I was a kid, I was like obsessed with like trying to, right in myself as much as possible well me too i mean i was like a nightmare before christmas kid and all that like i've always loved like creepy weird stuff Yeah.
01:02:03
Speaker
It takes like, it takes all of my resolve not to just like fill my flat with Halloween stuff all year round. Like whenever all the Halloween stuff comes out, just like, no, don't, don't do it. Don't do it.
01:02:14
Speaker
Well, that's the other thing you have to remember too. Like, I think if you're like a gay, like if you're like a little gay kid or whatever, like Halloween's like a time of year where like you sort of get to be like outrageous or whatever.
01:02:30
Speaker
What's your most outrageous Halloween costume? I was never good at costumes. I mean, I'm not going to lie. Like, I was never very good at them. But, like, as a kid? is that what you're asking?
01:02:42
Speaker
Oh, just in general. it doesn't have to be a kid. Um... I think the one I like, I'll just do the one I liked the best. It's not very outrageous, but I think it was the cutest one I ever did is me and one of my gay friends went as country mouse city mouse.
01:03:00
Speaker
Oh. To a Halloween party once. And we got a lot of compliments and it was like really easy to do. Like I just wore overalls and like mouse ears and we like painted our faces. don't know, four or five years ago, i went, um,
01:03:16
Speaker
I went as like a 18th century vampire. So I had like the powdered wig and like the frock. Oh, and like, like the balloon pants and stuff. And like, I looked amazing, but I bought these, um, these like velvet loafer shoes with like embroidered spiders on them.
01:03:36
Speaker
And they were the most uncomfortable things I've ever put on my feet. So we went out to like a ah nightclub and And I just couldn't handle the pain. And I ended up going back to the um hotel that we were staying in after like an hour. So i was just sat in the hotel in this costume on drugs with no shoes on for the whole night. They ruined Halloween for me.
01:03:56
Speaker
but Yeah. i look I felt guilty this year because I was supposed to go. I like for the first, like for the first year in many years, I was like, I'm going to go to a big gay Halloween party. And I was like invited and I had a bunch of friends going.
01:04:08
Speaker
And then I ended up at, KGB bar in New York where there was like a spooky reading and like, basically I was in the front row and I just, it went on for like three hours and I just like, couldn't figure out a way to leave the front row.
01:04:27
Speaker
and then when that was over, I was like, I'm going home. it was um i was on holiday for Halloween this year. So they didn't even really celebrate it where was Yeah. It was fun. Next year.
01:04:41
Speaker
Next year we'll do something good. Yeah. Next year, maybe we'll find a way to have a twink death together reunion or something. um all right, guys, we're going to call it. Thanks for listening.
01:04:54
Speaker
We'll talk to you soon. Bye.