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Episode 1: After the Haunt
45 Plays2 days ago
Nap time’s over — the boys are back, and sadly, so is Ryan Murphy.
In their Season 2 premiere, they unpack Luca Guadagnino’s post–#MeToo drama After the Hunt before Q autopsies Ryan Murphy’s latest Netflix slop, Monster: The Ed Gein Story, and his undying need to make everything gay and unwatchable.
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Transcript
Season Two Introduction
00:00:36
Speaker
All right, welcome back. We're officially in season two, Twinkies. Nice. Yeah, welcome back to season two of Twink Death. And we decided because we're sleepy, sleepy babies that ah we're going to have seasons now.
00:00:53
Speaker
Yeah. So we can have a little rest. we can have an excuse to let go a couple months without releasing. um It'll probably be like Halloween-ish time maybe when this comes out.
00:01:04
Speaker
ands We're already in spooky season. Yeah, I think our goal of like 12 episodes a year and we premiere Halloween is a good ongoing goal.
00:01:16
Speaker
Yeah, I agree. So that's that's that's what the show is now. That's the tentative goal. Don't hold us to anything. We did it last year. We had, we started, we did, we did it. We started. We actually did 13 episodes because when I was editing the last episode, was like, went to put it out and checked it was episode 13. And I was like, oh, we did better than we thought we were going do.
00:01:41
Speaker
Yeah. and it has been exactly a year because I remember our first conversations about doing this were when i was in France for a month. Yeah.
00:01:52
Speaker
So we're in the new where a lot has happened in the last year. um But yeah, so this is season two.
Impressions of 'After the Hunt'
00:02:02
Speaker
Bicky just saw After the Hunt, which I also saw last week.
00:02:06
Speaker
So what are your, you just saw it. Literally, you just walked out. what a year Yeah, I walked out like probably an hour ago. um I was very pleasantly surprised. I like really, really enjoyed it. um Because i I'd like vaguely seen the trailer when it came out. I think I was watching like another podcast and they were talking about the trailer, sort of picking it apart little bit. And I thought, like ah it didn't really appeal to me. And then you said that you'd seen it and that that you liked it.
00:02:37
Speaker
Yeah. And there was, there's like not that much on, i don't know it's like in America at the minute, but like here there's, there's like not a ton of stuff to watch at the cinema. Um, so I just, I fancied like sitting in the dark for a couple of hours. I thought i I'll go and see it. And yeah, I, yeah, I really liked it. I liked all of the performances. yeah,
00:03:00
Speaker
I thought, I don't know, I've seen like some people criticizing it, saying it's kind of ah like a little bit too late to be doing like a Me Too movie. But I just feel like the people wouldn't have accepted this premise like at the time of Me Too. So a kind of, i can understand sort of making this kind of movie now after it's all kind of died down.
00:03:19
Speaker
Yeah, I think it's, so what I think personally, and I'll give a quick overview after I say this of what the movie's about, but I think it's actually the first post-Me Too movie.
00:03:32
Speaker
That is my argument. It's like, this is the first movie that's talking about the time we're in right now. If that makes sense. Yeah, kind of. I mean, i mean it's set in the past. like It's 2019.
00:03:47
Speaker
Right, but it's it sort of has this visual trick it does because it it is set in the past, and then at the very end, they bring the movie to like the present moment.
00:03:59
Speaker
And so I guess, obviously, spoilers if you don't want to hear it, but I think it has it it positions the audience differently to look back at Me Too with a somewhat critical gaze without being without being like too critical, right? Because it's like the movie doesn't necessarily say, i don't think the movie necessarily demonizes Me Too, but it definitely wants you to think,
00:04:22
Speaker
about Me Too in a more complicated way than just believe women. Yeah, I would yeah i would definitely agree with that. I think that was one of the like one of the aspects that I really liked about it was that they they weren't afraid to have a sort of flawed black character in the movie like she's not the i mean we can go over like briefly the synopsis of like the story or whatever but the can't remember what the actress is called but like the character that she plays the sort of quote-unquote victim supposedly of this like me too sort of incident like she's she's not a likable character at all she has a lot of like
00:05:01
Speaker
really unpleasant qualities and there's something very off about her. And I think like just allowing ah a black person to like play a role like that, they don't do that a lot anymore. i feel like black people are sort of only really allowed to play these sort of like virtuous characters with like very little sort of complexity. So I kind of, I liked that, that they weren't kind of afraid to go there with it.
00:05:23
Speaker
Yeah, I agree. I'll give a quick um synopsis.
Complex Characters & Themes
00:05:27
Speaker
ah So the actress's name that Biki's referring to is Ayo Edabiri. She's technically, I think, an she was born in Nigeria, but she's essentially raised in the U.S.,
00:05:40
Speaker
um And ah anyway, so she plays this student at this university at Yale. um And she is actually one of the twists of the movie is you find out that she's the adopted daughter of these wealthy Yale donors. So she kind of has this like,
00:06:02
Speaker
somewhat like a position of power in the movie, which I thought was interesting. um And then Alma and which is who's played by Julia Roberts and Hank, which is played by Andrew Garfield or as Bicky calls him spider t twink.
00:06:16
Speaker
ah They are two, I would call them kind of like the way they're played is like, they're kind of like middle-class strivers in the sense that like, you get the impression that they have kind of clawed their way into this like elite academic setting, but didn't necessarily come from those backgrounds.
00:06:35
Speaker
So there is like a class element to this because you'd think these two white Yale professors were, would have all the power over this young Black female student.
00:06:46
Speaker
But actually, it's a complicated situation because the two white Yale professors are sort of people who have clawed their way into this elite situation, whereas she is like sort of born to it because she was adopted buy this wealthy ah family um who... Yeah, and they're both kind of like...
00:07:07
Speaker
ah One of the sort of big like talking points is that they're both kind of um like looking forward to tenure and like the the the potential of sort of ah receiving tenure. And that's kind of like a big sort plot point in the movie.
00:07:20
Speaker
So that it's not like they're, Like, yes, they're, like, working at this, like, prestigious university, but their positions are not a sort of safe there in the way that somebody with the degree of privilege that the black lady has... need to... What's her name in the movie? I forget.
00:07:38
Speaker
um or What is her name? Oh, Maggie. Her name's Maggie. Maggie, yeah. um Yeah, so they're not... they don't have the same kind of like security as like somebody from that like background. Cause they, cause they had, they're still kind of fighting for um a tenured position at the university.
00:07:57
Speaker
Right. So the movie, and again, I'm not going to make this go too long, but the movie opens with Julia Roberts's character is living with her no offense, gay husband.
00:08:10
Speaker
my head, I call him not Robin Williams because he looks just like Robin Williams. Yeah, but they live in this very enviable... You get the impression it's like... ah faculty housing, but like very luxurious, very luxurious, like a huge, beautiful apartment and one of those huge, beautiful buildings, um, and new Haven and, um, yeah, they're throwing a party. And so the movie opens with the party and the party is sort of like, I mean, if I'm sure, i don't know if UK university is the same, similar to the U S but like the party is very familiar. If you,
00:08:48
Speaker
majored in the liberal arts anywhere in the U.S. It's like the type of thing like, you know, everyone's kind of being like super pretentious and ah smoking cigarettes and drinking wine and, you know, whatever. It's like they'rere they're kind of like the worst people you can imagine. And like, I think if you...
00:09:08
Speaker
even if you didn't go to Yale, you had some experiences like this in your college life. um If you went, if you, again, only if you majored in like English or philosophy or history, not if you majored in like tech or whatever, but it's very much that type of people.
00:09:24
Speaker
And then, At the end of the party, Hank leaves with Maggie and you kind of know already ah something's going to happen, of course. And the next day, Maggie goes to Alma's apartment and confesses to her...
00:09:41
Speaker
and a very in very vague terms that ah Hank had sexually assaulted her. But she doesn't... One thing I think is interesting is the word rape is only used one time in the whole movie.
00:09:52
Speaker
Yeah. I thought it was... What I thought was really interesting was the way that, like... um So when she like goes to Maggie's apartment and the way that she kind of words it to Maggie is that like he tried to kiss her and then he crossed a line. And Alma, well Julia Roberts' first instinct is to say, like what exactly are you accusing him of? And she reacts like very, she's very offended so that she would even ask her this.
00:10:18
Speaker
And I think that kind of, I think one of the things that I liked about the movie was that you got to see sort so of the perspective of like a few different generations of people. You've kind of got the sort of Gen Zs and the Millennials and the like Gen Xs and they would all kind of have like a different idea of like what constitutes sort of sexual assault. So even though you really don't know what happened and you never find out throughout the movie what happened, I think there's a sort of a conceivable reading of the movie where the the victim like genuinely believes that she's experienced some kind of sexual assault and the sort perpetrator genuinely believes that he hasn't done anything wrong.
00:11:00
Speaker
Yeah, but so yes, but Hank's story, when when you get Hank's story, is that nothing happened between Well, yeah, that's true. I don't think anything did happen. I think it was all a lie, but not that it really matters in terms of... Yeah, which is interesting because you usually what you do get in this type of movie, but I agree, Vicky, is you get this like sexual encounter that two people are interpreting differently. But in this movie, his story...
00:11:27
Speaker
that he sticks to all the way to the very end is that he did not have any sort of contact with her whatsoever. um So then like throughout the movie, there's kind of this like...
00:11:39
Speaker
varying perspectives that you get to see. And um ah Julia Roberts is the main character, Alma's the main character. She's trying to figure out how to navigate. She's clearly an incredibly ambitious you know person and she really wants tenure.
00:11:55
Speaker
Hank is eventually fired um and Alma Kind of can't quite bring her... It's like she does this thing that I think is interesting because I feel like i I would maybe end up doing this in this situation. I found it very relatable. Where she does... The way she acts makes everyone unhappy with her.
Film's Ambiguity & Interpretations
00:12:16
Speaker
So Hank is unhappy with her. Maggie's unhappy with her. Her husband's unhappy with her. The university's unhappy with Yeah. And I just found that very relatable because I could see myself like, like, you know, she doesn't take really any stand. She doesn't like decide, decide with her friend, nor does she decide, to decide. Well, eventually she does decide, decide with Maggie, but like, you know, and that, but but you realize she does that when she does that.
00:12:42
Speaker
in a completely self-interested way, whatever. Anyway, long story short, the movie goes on and on and on. You find out that Alma had a past sexual relationship when she was a teenager where she accused the man she had the sexual relationship with of rape, but she doesn't consider it rape and the man ended up killing himself.
00:13:02
Speaker
Yeah. And this is kind of like, this is kind of foreshadowed at the beginning of the movie because before any of this happens at the initial party, um, the black girl finds this like envelope in the bathroom taped to the underside of a cupboard that has these like articles relating to this incident.
00:13:19
Speaker
There's kind of this, this, um and this is sort of discussed by Julia Roberts' character. So when she confronts her towards the end that like, you kind of get the impression that the girl is kind of obsessed with Julia Roberts. Like she's dressed sort of very similar to her. there's um There are a lot of sort of like cues in terms of like the necklace that she's wearing and the the shirts that she's wearing and stuff.
00:13:41
Speaker
You kind of get the impression that she's sort of obsessed with Julia Roberts. So I don't know. You could interpret that like she came up with this story as a way of sort of like emulating her or something because this is something that she's sort of dealt with in the past. and and And that's never really...
00:13:57
Speaker
All of it is very vague and ambiguous and you could read a million different ways. But I like the way that there are like, there are so many different threads that you could pick up on that don't necessarily tell you exactly what happened, but they give they give you like, it's all very vague and ambiguous, but I didn't feel unsatisfied by it.
00:14:14
Speaker
No, I think it's a really satisfying film. I think it's really beautifully shot. I'm a big Luca Guadagnino defender. I actually, his least favorite movie of mine is probably Call Me By Your Name, but I love um i love his movie Bones and All.
00:14:27
Speaker
I love Challengers. um I really liked this. i loveis I love the new Suspiria, controversially. A lot of people... No, I love the new Suspiria also. I haven't seen... i was like...
00:14:40
Speaker
I didn't love Challenges, I'll be honest. I like Coleman by Your Name a lot. um But yeah, but generally speaking, like I do like his movies. I like The Bigger Splash a lot. Yeah, so it's, anyway, so the movie ends with um Julia Roberts does this very thing I wish I could do this very fancy lady thing where she keeps her old loft.
00:15:01
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. So she can like go and like have this space to be alone. and I like wish I was privileged and rich enough to have like just a secret apartment that I, and that I sort of keep.
00:15:15
Speaker
But anyway, she goes there and Hank's there, Andrew Garfield's character. And you, it's revealed, which is something you kind of assume, yeah, the whole time that her and Hank, Alma and Hank had had an affair.
00:15:31
Speaker
They do explicitly reveal that that happened, um that they did have sex in the past, um which is, again, kind of obvious the whole movie, but like it gets really brought out into the open.
00:15:43
Speaker
And ah basically he, they they kiss, consensually, but then he's sort of, he's kind of aggressive with it. He's aggressive with her. and And she eventually has to like shove him off and kick him out of the apartment. So that's another like sort of that moment where you're like, okay, maybe he, you know, maybe he did do this. Maybe he is anyway, whatever.
00:16:03
Speaker
And then um the movie ends with Alma in 2025, which I think is very interesting. um see
Critique of Me Too Narratives
00:16:15
Speaker
publishes a story where she admits to her own past thing that had happened. But in the, in the, way in the article that she writes, she completely accepts herself as she, she portrays herself as a victim and then also apologizes to Maggie and this very profound way. But you can tell she doesn't believe any of this. She's just, you just did it in a completely careerist, um,
00:16:45
Speaker
perspective. And then her and Maggie meet at the restaurant where Hank used to take his ah students. And they're both looking very glam.
00:16:57
Speaker
Maggie has grown up and has a very ah glamorous outfit on. And they basically, they they kind of won, like the women sort of win. But then you find out in this final scene too, that Hank is making a ton of money writing political speeches and also kind of ended up okay. So it's like- Yeah, they all kind of come out of the the other side of it. like Maybe not like necessarily better off, but at least the same level of okay.
00:17:27
Speaker
Yeah, they all kind of ended up fine. um And I think that's an engening that's so interesting message too, because it's like, yeah, interesting.
00:17:38
Speaker
So yeah, that's kind of...
00:17:43
Speaker
so yeah it's that's kind of the story. Yeah. I would definitely say it's worth, worth, worth of you. I mean, we've kind of, we've kind of talked a little bit about like me too, like critically on the show before, like when we talked about like Weinstein and stuff, but I think it, what you said earlier about it, so being like a post me too movie in the sense that you're kind of,
00:18:08
Speaker
With sort of 2025 eyes, like looking back on things little more critically than everyone was at the time. I think i think that's sort of a good encapsulation of the kind of film that is. But yeah, I really enjoyed it.
00:18:20
Speaker
I'm looking it up right now and they actually filmed it. I wondered if they filmed it in New Haven, but they didn't. It it was all filmed in London and Cambridge. oh That doesn't surprise me actually. because It's very similar like aesthetic.
00:18:32
Speaker
um I liked all the costumes in the film. They all look good. They've all got really good clothes on. Yeah, I mean, it actually has gotten pretty poor reviews. I'm not surprised that people are reacting negatively to it. I mean, because like Vicky said, it's like, i do I actually think of it as more of like a post-Me Too movie than like a Me Too movie. And like the I do think whether or not he avoids Luca Guadagnino avoids explicitly saying it, but certainly at the end of the movie,
00:19:01
Speaker
the impression you get is that both of these women have used ambiguous sexual encounters where maybe there wasn't a clear violation of any kind. They've used, they've, they've cast themselves as victim for, as victims for social and financial clout.
00:19:20
Speaker
da That is sort of what you, what you end up with. But that also like, that does happen. As much as people like to sort of like sugarcoat it. Like people definitely do that.
00:19:34
Speaker
Yeah. And I mean, and what's worse, I mean, Julia Roberts, his story actually is a little more, a little less ambiguous because she was only 14 when this affair with this older man began.
00:19:46
Speaker
um So he does a few things like that, that I think make it a little less brave because, you're able to sort of forgive Julia Roberts because, you know, she was so young. where it's like if Whereas if they had made her just like 20 when she did that, it would have had a little bit more of a like, she would have been a little bit more of a villain.
00:20:08
Speaker
for sure. I liked her in the movie for the most part. But yeah, they do have a very, um they do give Maggie's character played by Ayo Edebiri, like she she's, she's pretty, she's depicted as pretty cynically like ambitious, I would say.
00:20:27
Speaker
yeah like there's there's a really good scene when like julie roberts confronts her and kind of like um just sort of chastises her about all of these like aspects of her life that like ah her sort of um like wealth and privilege and like the fact that she's sort of not really that good of a student because she like plagiarizes her like why she playedgi I love that line too, where she's like, not everything is supposed to make you comfortable. Life is not a warm bath that you just like sink into. and And actually, ironically, the only unambiguous assault in the movie is in that scene, Maggie slaps Julia Roberts.
00:21:08
Speaker
Yeah. And like I guess you could say what happens between Andrew Garfield and Julia Roberts is... assault or attempted assault, maybe. But yeah anyway, the only actual violence is Maggie slaps Alma.
00:21:26
Speaker
I also just like briefly want to touch on the fact that Julia Roberts' is husband, played by um Michael Stuhlberg, is like so awful and annoying, and I like hated him.
00:21:39
Speaker
Oh, I really liked her. i liked liked the performance, but I was like... I thought he was the only like redeemable character. i like I really liked him. I thought he was very sweet.
00:21:50
Speaker
um I don't know whether I would want to be married to him. was a little too cloying. but I don't think anyone would want to be married to that man. i hate to say it. i mean, he's just so... The scene where he like plays the music really loud to like interrupt her conversation and...
00:22:08
Speaker
i That was the one scene where I was a little bit confused because he was um he was very like abrasive with um Maggie and i couldn't really understand what that was about. like why he was i know that she i know that like based on like questions that he was asking her and her answers that like she came across as sort of unintelligent and not uninteresting, but like...
00:22:29
Speaker
ah Was that the reason why he was behaving? Because he was behaving very childish. And I was like, I don't really understand this. I don't know. I didn't didn't understand his like animosity towards her, really. Because he didn't know about the Hank thing.
00:22:42
Speaker
Yeah. um Yeah. I think he, and I think he doesn't believe her. I think we're supposed to like believe. Anyway, this movie, this is not an after the hunt episode. so
Ryan Murphy's 'Monster' Discussion
00:22:52
Speaker
no is mom we can, we can move on um So we're talking about that obviously I feel like this show is never going to escape Ryan Murphy um because Ryan Murphy is going to keep putting out stuff. That's like, so um specifically,
00:23:09
Speaker
geared toward our ah our audience, our small audience and his large audience. um But he just recently released um Monster, the Ed Gain story, which I think is an interesting choice because he had to like think of ways to make this gay because Ed Gain is more AGP than right?
00:23:30
Speaker
for sure. As an actual serial killer. So Ed Gain, I'm not going to actually do like a big breakdown of Ed Gain. I more want to talk about... like Ryan Murphy's cultural output. But, um, Ed Gain was this man that lived, um, from 1906 to 1984. And he lived in the middle of the U S and sort of the like plains area of the country. um and he's famous. He did kill a couple of people, but what he's famous for is doing this grave robbing where he,
00:24:02
Speaker
basically like made things out of the victim's um bodies. So he made a lamp, he made a skin suit. He's the inspiration behind Texas Chainsaw Massacre.
00:24:17
Speaker
And he's the inspiration behind um the character in Silence of the Lambs. Here's some of the stuff they found in his house. just so you get an idea of what this guy was up to They found, um, whole human bones and fragments, a waste basket made of human skin, human skin covering several chairs, human skulls mounted on bedposts, female skulls, some with the top, so um, sawn off bowls made from human skulls, a corset made from a female torso skin from shoulders to waist, um,
00:24:44
Speaker
leggings made from human leg skin, masks made from the skin of female heads, Mary Hogan's face mask in a paper bag, Mary Hogan's skull in a box, Bernice Worden's entire head in a burlap sap, Bernice Worden's heart in a plastic bag, nine vulvas in a shoebox, which is gross. I don't even want to know how you cut a vulva up.
00:25:05
Speaker
Um, a young girl's dress, uh, more vulvas, belt made from human nipples, four noses, a pair of lips on a window shade drawstring and a lamp shade made from the skin of a human face. So disgusting. Um, obviously disgusting.
00:25:23
Speaker
Um, he, uh, he actually got most of these body parts from grave robbing. Um, he's only confirmed to have killed two people, although there's some suspicion that he might've killed more people, including his brother.
00:25:39
Speaker
um but none of that's been proven. Okay. So that's, that's Ed Gain. He ends up in a psychiatric institution where he dies and spends basically the final 50 years of his life in this, um,
00:25:52
Speaker
in this psychiatric institution. All right, moving on to the show. So Ryan Murphy's back. We're never getting rid of this motherfucker. um And of course, Ryan Murphy has to make it as...
00:26:05
Speaker
attempt to make this already very twisted show, um very, even more twisted. And he has to attempt to make it gay. So he has a lot on his plate because there's not any um explicit gay sex, but don't you worry.
00:26:20
Speaker
He gets yeah listed gay sex in the movie. yeah that i i To preface, like I only watched the first two episodes and then I was done. um But Q has watched the whole thing.
00:26:32
Speaker
But like yeah, one of the things that i really didn't like about it was that obviously Ed Gein was just like a... straight guy um so they introduced like anthony perkins who played norman bates in psycho which was um like loosely inspired by like ed gean and it felt like felt like they only included anthony perkins because he's gay and they wanted to have like some kind of like gay character and i just i don't know i like
00:27:05
Speaker
His son is still alive and makes movies. And I was thinking, i wonder what his son thinks of this. His son makes amazing movies. But yeah, so they, they, i love the Black Coat's daughter. I recently rewatched it. ah Anthony Perkins, they do have show some of his affair with tab Hunter tab Hunter. You should Google him. He's very hot. um And yeah the fact that the fact that they had an affair is, is super hot.
00:27:28
Speaker
um But I guess Anthony Perkins had some relationship with a woman at some point because Oz Perkins exists and is alive. um But he died of AIDS actually in the eighties. um Yeah. Maybe the early
Controversial Topics in 'Monster'
00:27:39
Speaker
nineties.
00:27:39
Speaker
Yeah. I don't think to have Hunter died of AIDS, but anyway, that's not even the only gay sex he manages to get in here. He also, um, so he starts inserting and Bicky wouldn't have seen any of this, but he starts inserting all these like, um,
00:27:56
Speaker
kind of historical figures. You see him insert the bitch of Buchenwald in the, oh in the first two episodes, but he kind of keeps doing that. So like, as he goes, he inserts Alfred Hitchcock, Tab Hunter.
00:28:10
Speaker
He inserts Anthony Perkins. He inserts, he inserts um Mildred Newman, who was a famous conversion therapist. He inserts Christine Jorgensen, who was the first woman to get, uh,
00:28:25
Speaker
I guess the vagina done. um mean of the jo engine like the, the first trans woman. oh the first like fake vagina. Yeah. Um, he actually, and what does that have to do with Ed Gees? Oh, I'm getting there. Just wait.
00:28:41
Speaker
He inserts this woman, Evelyn Hartley, who's played by Addison Rae. who Okay. who i I, sorry it's a cut in. Like I knew that Addison Rae was in this cause I'd seen it on the cast list and i to be honest, I didn't know what Aziz and Ray looked like before I watched the show. And I thought it was the girl from like the first couple of episodes that he's like in love with, who lives in the town with him.
00:29:07
Speaker
No, that's not her. Okay. No, no, no. So this, this, he inserts this. ri So I'm, I'm going to finish my list of, uh, historical figures inserts, but Evelyn Hartley was this real teenager who went missing, um, while she was, uh,
00:29:23
Speaker
watching babysitting these two kids. And that woman is played by um by Addison Rae. As far as I could tell, there's like no specific. ah They can't like figure out if he like really did anything to this teenager or whatever, but they they put her story in here anyway.
00:29:42
Speaker
um He also inserts the director of um the Texas Chainsaw Massacre, his backstory. Toe Cooper. Yeah. tob cooperop to Tobe Hooper gets his backstory randomly gets put put in here.
00:29:57
Speaker
um He puts in, um and then he also puts in this was like the craziest stuff he inserted. Anyway, he puts in this guy that murdered all these nurses. It's like a really famous story.
00:30:11
Speaker
I'm trying to remember this guy's name and it's pissing me off. Hold on. Nine nurses murdered. Nine nurses murder guy. Yeah. Richard Speck. Yes. He puts in Richard Speck who did this famous killing that Ryan Murphy has um depicted in other tv shows of his actually, but um he killed eight, eight nurses and raped one.
00:30:33
Speaker
um and then he ended up in prison and he actually ended up sort of going through like the rumor is that they smuggled in um estrogen for him to be able to grow breasts.
00:30:47
Speaker
Yeah. And this is a real scandal that happened because this got revealed in the right like in the news. um And he basically was like running the prison like a fucking trans like prostitute like drug gangster.
00:31:03
Speaker
um So anyway, it's just... ah My point is, is like, he decides to just put in all of this extraneous stuff because clearly he like, can't figure out a way to make the story work and with his aesthetic that he wants. So like, you see Richard Speck with his fake boobs getting fucked in the ass by this like big black prisoner. And like, like Ryan Murphy has to find a way to like, get all this like really perverted
00:31:35
Speaker
gay shit in there. um And I just found that kind of like a cheap move, like why he could pick any number of like gays. Yeah. We have, um we have covered like more than one, like,
00:31:49
Speaker
interesting gay zero killer on the show like over the last season that he could have picked that would have been good like it just i don't know it's not and it's not necessarily that like ed geene isn't a like fascinating character but he's not like ryan murphy coded enough to warrant like a whole Eight episode, like mini series. And like, to be clear, Ryan Murphy is as far as I can tell, just a producer on this. He actually wasn't the show runner this time.
00:32:19
Speaker
so maybe some of what I'm missing in this show is because this, whoever this guy is that did this, I don't know anything about him. His name is Ian Brennan. um He's I'm looking at him now. he does look like he's gay probably.
00:32:36
Speaker
Uh, oh no, he married to woman anyway, whatever. Um, he, it, I, maybe this, that is part of the problem is like, this is someone trying to do Ryan Murphy pastiche and, you know, like puts it all together because like I said, I think this is Ryan Murphy's production company, but not hit like it's not his literal,
00:33:02
Speaker
um you know, his like literal output. I mean, anyway, the long story short, it's very bad. I don't, I'm sort of shocked that I got to the end of it. Um, but, uh,
00:33:20
Speaker
Yeah, it's deeply bad. um It's grotesque. um There is necrophilia in it, which is very disgusting. um And you don't even feel like you're getting the payoff of some of the like disgusting stuff that you would like hope for. like It's just sort of like there it really is no payoff. It's just kind of gross for the sake of being gross.
00:33:44
Speaker
And it's it's very clear that he wanted it to be like a little bit controversial because a lot of the stuff he inserts is, I would say, like I'm i'm kind of shocked that like there hasn't been like ah like a trans, like i'm I'm kind of shocked that there's been no like transphobia accusations against yeah against the the the show. I think maybe it's because truly people just to haven't really, um,
00:34:11
Speaker
watched it, you know? Like that's like, that's like my, my guess is that. Yeah, I guess. I mean, I mean, that that has definitely been like a ah cultural shift, like with regards to a lot of the trans stuff anyway. um I'm just kind of shocked that like no one has tried to like cancel this show. Because like basically in one of the scenes, Christine Jorgensen, the first woman to get gender reassignment surgery, is like talking to Ed Gein. And she's like, well, you're not actually trans, baby. You're AGP. You're an autogonophile.
00:34:52
Speaker
Oh, okay. So they really go there. it really They really go there. And like, as far as my understanding of where the like left is with this stuff, like you're not even supposed to say the word autogonophile.
00:35:05
Speaker
Like you're not even supposed to like discuss it Although if there ever was a case of someone who was an autogonophile, it's absolutely Gein. I mean, he's, he's clearly obsessed and sexually aroused with being a woman, but not doesn't identify as a, like, you know what i mean? Like he's yeah clearly like that diagnosis. Yeah. I found like, I found a lot of this stuff in the first couple of episodes where he's like, I don't know, like putting his mom's underwear on and like,
00:35:38
Speaker
Doing like that. What is it called when you like tie the thing around your neck when you're like having a wank? Auto-erotic asphyxiation. I'll be honest. I had to cover my eyes for some of that stuff because I just found it too.
00:35:49
Speaker
Well, it just gets grosser and grosser and grosser. And it's just... um It's just, yeah, it's, it's honestly like the show was just slop and it was like kind of disgusting and like none of this stuff is like really, um, I don't think it was a good story for like a Ryan Murphy, like production, you know, like, you know I mean, he's, he tends to be pretty like one of the main criticisms that I've had of like the past couple of seasons of this like monster, like, yeah,
00:36:21
Speaker
anthology series is that like he tends to play really fast and loose with the truth of like what actually happened in most of these incidents like he did it with the Menendez brothers and he definitely did it with the um Jeffrey Dahmer series and I think like I don't know. i i feel like I feel like that's kind of fine if it's something super historic, but I feel like if it's something that happened in living memory, you kind of have a responsibility to be a little bit more truthful in the way that you tell these stories. So like you like you were saying before about how
00:36:56
Speaker
It's not really confirmed that he like murdered his brother, but that's sort of sold to you as like straight fact in the first episode of the show. um yeah I don't know. and it just It just gives me the a His stuff now just gives me the ick.
00:37:10
Speaker
I know, and I'm like really disappointed that he's going to be doing the shards, and I'm like terrified he's going to like completely butcher... Yeah. it's so it's It almost feels like, because wasn't Luca Guadagnina originally like supposed to be directing that? that's Funnily enough, as we've talked about both this episode. but Yeah, he was. And I mean, obviously he would have been done an incredible job with it. Wow.
00:37:35
Speaker
wow So it's we'll get what we'll get. I don't know. I think I had to look at the cast and I was sort of like, oh, these guys, these are not that attractive, but. ah I am very excited and interested to see Spider Twink, Andrew Garfield play Sam Altman and Luca Gordon Ino's new movie coming out next year or oh i didn't know about this yeah he's doing a this is gonna be super interesting and i heard him talking about it in an interview um he's doing a movie called artificial starring andrew garfield as sam altman which to be perfectly honest sam altman if you're listening to this you should feel fucking nerd they're making you that hot in it because you're not that hot so that's who's not that hot
00:38:17
Speaker
Sam Altman. oh I thought you meant Andrew Garfield's not that hot. Oh, I'm saying they're giving Sam Altman like a massive looks upgrade for this movie. Oh, okay. You know, like he's like. That used to that used to just be commonplace in movies. So you'd always get a slightly hotter version of yourself if it was like a biopic.
00:38:34
Speaker
What I find funny about it is like, Andrew Garfield is actually two two years older than Sam Altman. So it's like, It's just interesting to um make a movie about someone who's so young. I mean, Sam Altman's a millennial. like i I don't want to scare you, Vicky, but he's like he's one of our contemporaries. He just turned 40. don't even know what he looks like. I'm just Googling him to see. He's within striking distance of our age range, I would argue. don't even know who he is.
00:39:11
Speaker
He made ChatGPT. Oh, okay. I thought Elon Musk made that. No, Sam Altman did. Oh yeah. He looks nothing like Andrew Garfield. He looks, he if I was going to cast him, i would cast maybe like Rami Malek or someone. Cause he's got that kind of bug eye look.
00:39:29
Speaker
um Rami Malek would be good. Or that other one. What's his name? ah The one who was in salt burn, but not a Lordy. ah the ugly guy. Yeah. Barry Kogan.
00:39:40
Speaker
so i and constantstein I can't even stand looking at his face in movies. he's so disgusting. But that's more Sam Altman-y, I would say. yeah I agree.
00:39:52
Speaker
Yeah. It's funny because you would like obviously we were talking a little bit about how um like Ryan Murphy, he always like finds a way to like make everything he does like
'The Black Phone 2' Discussion
00:40:03
Speaker
gay. um and i I feel like I always want things to be less gay, generally speaking, whenever I'm watching movies. But I went to see um The Black Phone 2 yesterday, and it was the first time that I'd been to a movie, and I felt like it should have been more gay.
00:40:20
Speaker
um i don't know whether you... Have you seen the first movie? I have. Yeah. So ah for anyone like listening, the premise of like the first movie is that um there's this serial killer who as like kidnapping and murdering young boys. And then he kidnaps this young boy and like locks him in his basement. And there's like a black phone in the basement and the phone starts ringing and the boy is able to speak to like the ghosts of like the previous victims on the phone and they sort of help him escape.
00:40:50
Speaker
And I liked the movie. I didn't remember that much about it. And I was really surprised that they were doing a sequel to it. But one of the things I did remember about it was the The villain character was like played by Ethan Hawke, had a very sort of like sort of sadomasochistic, like gay pervert vibe about him.
00:41:06
Speaker
Like I remember there's like a scene where he's like sat in a chair with this like scary mask on he's got no shirt on. And I feel like in the sequel, they kind of they kind of just do away with all of that. And he's just like a sort of typical horror villain. And it kind of turns into a sort of like...
00:41:23
Speaker
Freddy Krueger type thing. And I was just, I was just thinking like, I don't know. Tell me if I'm wrong about this, but like, I feel like there's something not worse necessarily, but more sinister about like a serial killer who kills like young boys than young girls.
00:41:40
Speaker
Like, it just is creepier to me. I mean, I just think your homophobia is showing through, to be honest, but that's fine. Your own internalized homophobia. um But, like, you accept that about yourself, so it's not a... Well, maybe. I don't know. The thing that I find more sinister about it is that, like, I feel like...
00:41:59
Speaker
whatever age like a girl is like a man can always sort of like, like predate on a, on a woman or a girl, like regardless of their age. Cause like men are like typically stronger than women, but there's something about like ah man taking advantage of like somebody who one day could have the potential to sort of fight back when they're at the stage in their life where they can't that like feels feels like cowardly and creepy and sinister and I felt like to kind of like remove all of those aspects of like a movie villain that you've already built up and sort of try and turn him into a sort of Freddy Jason like Michael Myers type thing it just felt it felt like icky to me it was weird I don't know
00:42:44
Speaker
I kind of see what you're saying. i mean, cause I understand, like, I do think like culturally speaking, we're kind of used to this like narrative, like, which is a true narrative. It's not a false narrative that like, men like you said, like men ultimately will, will be predator. Some men, not all will be predators toward women.
00:43:05
Speaker
for women's entire lives, even like old women, you know, but like, uh, but it is true that there is a point where like a gay or whatever, like a serial killer who wants to prey on men, would be significantly harder. Although we saw with Jeffrey Dahmer, but then he had to draw, he to drug them to get them to point where he could take advantage of them in that way.
00:43:31
Speaker
Um, yeah, the kind of, the, the sort of, At the end of the first like black phone movie, the the young kid who's like the main protagonist, he kills this guy.
00:43:42
Speaker
um So obviously like to bring him back for a sequel, his sort of spirit comes back as like a sort of vengeful ghost that can like kill you in your dreams. And they they shifted the focus of the story to...
00:43:56
Speaker
his sister who she becomes sort of the main character and the, the boy is still in it, but he's like relegated to sort of a side character role. Um, and it's all about the sister sort of like fighting off the, the spirit of like, um, Ethan Hawke's villain character in, in her dreams. And if she gets hurt in her dreams, she gets like injured in real life.
00:44:17
Speaker
And there's, there was a scene where like the, his whole sort of motivation for like going after the sister is that he feels like, that's the best way to sort of hurt the boy from the first movie and get revenge on him.
00:44:30
Speaker
But there's like this scene where like the the boy is in like a phone box and the phone rings and he answers it and it's the spirit of like Ethan Hawke's character. And you see him in the mask, like outside the phone booth talking to him about his like motivations for doing it. he keeps like saying like, oh, like, why are you doing this? Why are you doing this? Leave me alone. And and Ethan Hawke's character is like, you know why I'm doing this. Like, you know what I want from you. It's what I've always wanted from you.
00:44:56
Speaker
And then once I was watching it, I was thinking like, felt like he was going to say like, I want to like, fuck you or like devour you or something and then he's just like i want to hurt your sister so that you're hurt and it's just like it just felt like a cop out to me i don't know i feel like ah feel like we're reaching a stage where we're scared to make gays evil in movies again and sometimes gays are evil
00:45:21
Speaker
It just pissed me off. Yeah. Let's see what he does. Let's see what Ryan Murphy does with the shards. Cause there might be some, um, there might be some, uh, some evilness in there. Oh, I was going to tell you, i am seeing Frankenstein tomorrow in theaters. Cause New York, New York is one of the few places that's playing them, ah playing it. And I'm like, get your,
00:45:43
Speaker
butt up and go, you know what i mean? Like go see it. Don't try to download it. So yeah, I i don't know whether it'll show here. I hope it does. i hope I got like the opportunity to watch it on the big screen. Cause I, I don't know. Look, look right now because this is like the, these two weeks are it's quote unquote limited theatrical run.
00:46:02
Speaker
so yeah, such a weird casting choice. Lordy. Yeah. I don't know. I'm, I'm, I'm curious to see it but then I saw when I was watching, um, after the hunt, they had the trailer for Wuthering Heights. And I was just like, again, weird casting choice. They're just putting him in anything at the minute.
00:46:24
Speaker
I'm excited. All right. Let's call it on our little, um, Halloween at game episode and we'll see you soon. in Twinkies. Okay. Bye. love you. Bye.
00:46:43
Speaker
We'll be right back.