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Guest Spot | The Conversation That Started The Ripple Affect
21 Plays2 days ago
In this guest spot on the Jack of All Trades Podcast, Chiara and Isa open up about the journey behind The Ripple Affect, from the intuitive moment that sparked its creation to the ongoing evolution of what it means to build something aligned, honest, and impactful.
The conversation weaves through early identity, career shifts, and the often nonlinear path of finding work that truly fits. They share how the podcast became more than just a project, it became a mirror for their own growth, challenging them to confront old patterns, redefine success, and lean into vulnerability in a new way.
With humor and realness, they explore the tension between control and trust, perfection and progress, and independence and community.
This episode offers a behind-the-scenes look at what it takes to create from a place of authenticity and leaves listeners with a grounded reminder that meaningful change doesn’t happen all at once, but through consistent, imperfect, and deeply human steps forward.
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Transcript
00:00:00
Speaker
Alright, so welcome, welcome, this is the Ripple Appet. This isn't about the Ripple. We got you!
Introduction to Ripple Affect Podcast
00:00:11
Speaker
You're listening to The Ripple Affect with your hosts, Cheech and Nippy, a podcast that explores how individual change has the capacity to affect the whole. From neuroscience to donuts, we're two sisters with a deep curiosity for ancient wisdom and modern knowledge. And we're obsessed with learning alongside you because we don't know.
00:00:30
Speaker
Let's dive in.
00:00:35
Speaker
Welcome back to the Ripple Effect podcast. Issa here. For this week's episode, we're sharing a special guest spot Kyada and I did on someone else's podcast.
00:00:46
Speaker
And that someone else is our producer, Michelle Asaro's Jack of No Trades podcast. If you listened to last week's kitchen table talk where we had Mish at our table...
00:00:58
Speaker
then you already know how much we love her as our producer, as our friend, and honestly, she's just an overall brilliant human. In this episode, we step onto the other side of the mic and get
Origins and Personal Stories
00:01:11
Speaker
interviewed. We share the story behind the podcast, how it started, what was really going on in our lives at the time, and the moments that pushed us to finally stop waiting and actually do something with it.
00:01:24
Speaker
We also talk about childhood dreams, career pivots, and detours that didn't quite fit, and how this podcast became something that's actively shaped how we grow and navigate change in real time.
00:01:39
Speaker
By the end of this episode, you'll walk away with a clearer sense of what it looks like to follow what feels aligned, even when it doesn't make logical sense. along with a deeper insight into our own lives and career trajectories. The arc of what we thought we'd be as kids and how those unexpected paths ultimately led us here.
00:01:58
Speaker
All right, let's dive in.
Interview with Issa Griffin and Kiara Chavez
00:02:09
Speaker
Welcome back to the Jack of Trades podcast, a podcast about people and what they do. I'm your host, Michelle Asaro, and today's episode, I interviewed Issa Griffin and Kiara Chavez, otherwise known as Nibby and Cheech.
00:02:23
Speaker
They are the co-hosts and sisters behind the podcast Ripple Effect. Spoiler, I am also a contributing producer on that podcast. We do talk in length about our process behind it, ah the power and the challenges of change, and inspiration behind the inception of Ripple Effect. So without further ado, here is my conversation.
00:02:51
Speaker
Okay. um Take two. Welcome. This is the Jack of No Trades podcast. I'm your host, Michelle. I am with both Isa and Kiada, who are the founders and co-hosts for Ripple Affect, which is very, very cool podcast, which is celebrating its third year now, or recently celebrated its third year. Yeah, sorry. I've also been working on the back end. I was going to say it. wasn't going to say it. I was going to say it. for almost the whole time.
Exploring Individual Change and Growth
00:03:20
Speaker
So we've been working on the new batch of things that's gonna come out, which is great.
00:03:24
Speaker
Real quick, we'll go into just a really, really highbrow, tell me about Ripple Affect and um your experience so far. So the Ripple Affect podcast is a sister-led podcast and it is all about change. So Kiana and I started this podcast from a place of really wanting to show up in the world and make a difference and make a change. And we followed that journey.
00:03:50
Speaker
calling and so far it's been really fulfilling and successful in our own definition of success and we throughout the process have had this question or this hypothesis of you know how do we change the world for the better and we realize oh you do that by changing yourself and then that led us to dig in a little deeper and consider, well, how do you change yourself? And then realize, like everybody has realized who's gone through change, change is fucking hard. And there's a lot of different tools and like a lot of different elements to change. And so we decided to dig into those in our podcast and explore change in all its facets. And so that's what the podcast is about. Okay. Do you want to add to that, Kayla? No, that was great.
00:04:40
Speaker
That was good. Okay. Okay. Let's go back to to baby Issa and baby Kiata. What did you guys want to be when you were growing up? You're five years old, dream pie the sky. is what I'm going to be. Can I just say, I'm really, I've been sad and disappointed. And and I've expressed this before that I am the younger sister and I didn't get to know Kiata. Do you want me to go first?
00:05:00
Speaker
Yeah. I've never heard you say that. I'm sad about that. i didn't know that. because you were so cute. Oh, baby Kiara. I wish I could have picked you up and like held you. Like you were so cute. Like I see pictures of you. That's adorable.
00:05:14
Speaker
What did I want when I, what did I think I was going to be when I grew up? Yeah. i thought i was going to be an actress. Mm-hmm. Don't address my mic. Don't do it. You're making me nervous, Lisa. She needs help. I don't.
00:05:29
Speaker
um don't. That's going to be the promo. with andton and i Yeah, I remember I wasn't maybe five, but I was probably ten, nine, and I actually have it written down somewhere. where you know career day at school or whatever they're like what are you gonna be? I was like, I'm gonna be an actress. I wanna be an actress. And i'm sure we're gonna go into this later but I left that at 10. I didn't pick that up and keep going with that and it
Inspiration from Documentary 13th
00:05:54
Speaker
wasn't until I was like 20 something that I returned, went to myself and was like what did I want for myself when I was little?
00:05:59
Speaker
And I thought back and I was like oh, that's right. So I did a whole other life before that.
00:06:08
Speaker
I wanted to be a dentist. Really? I knew that. I didn't know that. Okay. My six-year-old self wanted to be a dentist because i thought i would always have a job.
00:06:21
Speaker
I could work anywhere in the world because everybody has teeth. That's very practical Very practical six-year-old Isa. who was a very practical six-year-old child, yes. So I wanted to be a dentist for a while.
00:06:32
Speaker
um That's what I calculated out that I wanted to do. But Kiara actually asked me this question when I was a little girl. I remember um i remember it really clearly. We were upstairs in our second-story bathroom, and she was like, Isa, if you could do anything when you grew up, what would you do?
00:06:46
Speaker
And I sat there and like looked at her, and I said, i would have my own show. I remember that Really? I think I asked you follow-up questions. Yes, you did. i can't remember what the follow-up questions were, but I remember being like, oh, I think I would, you know, I would like,
00:07:05
Speaker
I think, you know, in the era of Oprah being so big and all these these shows being, you know, self-help shows being really big and the live audiences. And I just I remember vaguely thinking, like, that would be cool to be able to, like, help people and, like, be on camera because I loved I really loved the, like.
00:07:27
Speaker
glam of it even when i was a kid i remember i was in kindergarten once and they said we're gonna have a makeup day and in my head i thought we were doing makeup and i got so fucking excited and so happy and then it was like oh we were
Podcasting Journey and Community Importance
00:07:43
Speaker
making up work we yeah yeah wrong different different makeup different ah very different make whos that i was obsessed with like music videos Oh my god, I was obsessed with the music video. that was too. I was too. You have the dance thing now too. Well, because my dance, that's what I, I found an old, to my parents, because I just recently moved, I, my parents had me clean out a bunch of crap that was at their house, right?
00:08:05
Speaker
And I found like old, old, like elementary school stuff, like reports and shit that I was like, why do you guys have this? But one of them was like, when I grow up, I'm going to be a dancer. And like, that's what i put in. I was like, oh.
00:08:18
Speaker
Oh, she was more in tune than she thought. Yes. Yes. Which is why I really look forward to going to one of your dance classes that you're going to be teaching. Yeah. Hopefully if i can finish this, I'm about halfway through. I have like three or eight counts. I know. You're good. at like Three, eight counts, you said? You only have three, eight counts? of I know, but it's always like, okay, but now i'm making this too hard. No, no, okay. No, no, no, no. Just yeah just kidding. Okay, this is stupid. It's doing that whole id challenge.
00:08:48
Speaker
Yeah, it's the id challenge that I'm like, okay, I gotta work on that. But yes, thank you. Yes, thank you for calling. Keeping me accountable. Keeping honest. On air. on air. We call you out now. It lives on forever. Thank you. Thank you. Appreciate that. I'm stamped. we get timestamp on that? Okay, so then what made you decide that, all right, dentistry, and then for you, what is acting? You're like, no, I don't want to do it.
00:09:11
Speaker
Just kidding. What made you to do the detour? What started the detour? um Like Isa said, it was a calculated thing. Somewhere when I was in high school, maybe junior high, I had a, like, a it was junior high. I had this moment where I was like, I'm going to do interior design.
00:09:29
Speaker
Like that's what I'm gonna do. And I did not look back until I graduated with a degree in bachelors in chair design. And started working in it and came to it and went, I don't want to That was when I had that come. I went to Ireland with my mom and my sister, my other sister and I,
00:09:48
Speaker
Came back from that trip and I was like, what do I really want to do with my life? This was post-graduation, post-working interior design, post-doing all these things. And i turned and said to myself, like what am I doing? and what ah How do I find out what I want to do in my life? And I thought back to that time of like, what did I want from when I was little?
00:10:10
Speaker
What did my 10 year old self want? And that was when I went acting. But for the time from when I was like 12 13, 14 till I graduated 25, fourteen till i graduated it twenty five um I was like, I didn't do interior design. And I think now that I look back on it, it was because I had this really unconscious or subconscious want to improve interiors because I grew up in a plywood box. Like we didn't have a finished home. There were no closets. There were no um walls. There you know was no, what am I trying to say? Drywall. We like didn't have, and so it created a lot of chaos in the home. But then... um
00:10:56
Speaker
Yeah, so I so i went like went hard that direction with kind of, so now that I look back, satisfying an unconscious or subconscious kind of need or want.
00:11:16
Speaker
She can be taught. Okay. Okay, so wrapping that thought up, I... went fully into interior design just like this is what I'm gonna do. But I realize now it was from like this subconscious like want to solve a problem I had as a young person to give thinking it would satisfy me to give back to people with beautiful interiors, be able to be that designer for the thing that I needed. But it wasn't. I was not a good interior designer. I did not. I should not be doing that. Like it stressed me out beyond belief. i it
00:11:49
Speaker
College almost broke me for other reasons too. And so when I got back to that place of what did I want for myself when I was little, it was like a rejuvenation of like cha of chasing finally something, pursuing something that was more of a fit for me and was definitely more fulfilling and just in the right area or pocket or line of thinking that would work.
00:12:11
Speaker
was aligned with me as he hit the switch but it was yeah a detour for sure we've all been there what was your detour i think i i didn't have a full detour i think i followed the lead of being in service my whole career there but it was just i kind of bounced to different areas so seeing kyata go through college and having it be such a stressful thing for her i knew my perceived
Challenges of Vulnerability and Authenticity
00:12:37
Speaker
abilities. Kyana a big sister who was very academically strong and really strong in sports. And I was a little bit in that shadow. And so was seeing her and my perception of like, oh, my big sister can do anything. And if this is hard on her,
00:12:53
Speaker
I'm not going to survive. And so I didn't go to college out of high school. I went to beauty school. And then from there, I went into aesthetics and I worked in spas. I moved to Hawaii. I had a ton of different jobs, some in service, some in sales.
00:13:10
Speaker
And I kind of always had this want to be of service. And so i so I stayed in that area. That realm. the whole time. um And then I got to the podcast.
00:13:23
Speaker
It was kind of, kind we kind of fell into that backwards. It wasn't really that intentional. It wasn't like we both were like, we want to start a podcast. It was very much, a a I don't want to say calling because that sounds a little cheesy, but um it was almost like a call out. It felt like a call out. Like we got to step up to the plate and do something with who we are and what we have and our connections and our, you know, perspectives and, you know, all this indigenous wisdom that was passed down to us from elders. And, um, that kind of fell into our laps. And i think we've followed that. So my detour wasn't I don't feel like I i had such an extreme situation where I like knew what I wanted when i was a kid and then abandoned it and came back to it like a lot of people do.
00:14:14
Speaker
I think i just... I slowly went towards it and found different elements of what that actually meant. I mean, I recently just got my degree in psychology and I thought like, oh, I'm going to be a therapist. That's what I'm going to do. And I got my degree and I had to take a big long pause and be like, wait a minute. Do I want to deal with symptomatology and sick mental states and people really being struggling really hard and needing a lot of support? And, you know, can I do I want to do that? Do I, can I handle that? Is that really the, the um path for me?
00:14:51
Speaker
And, you know, it's again in service, but I don't think it was it's not the right path for me. So I'm still like pivoting and I'm grateful to have the project because it helps me be able to assimilate all that information and give it back to people and have that degree not be for nothing, but also like, you know, keep following this path that I feel like is best aligned for me.
00:15:25
Speaker
No, no. so I just wanted to connect the dots. No rebuttal. Yeah. No, not a rebuttal. No and then.
00:15:34
Speaker
That's good. Okay. No and then, but... And then, and then i yeah, no, I ah want to connect the dots because I realize people don't know me from your podcast is that I am. So I went and pursued acting and did have a career in acting or I wouldn't call it a career, but I was ah connected and made money in it for about nine years. And that and then the call out happened from Isa, which was a literal call that she gave me one day 2020 after watched 13th.
00:16:06
Speaker
after you watched thirteen And it was, oh, Issa, yeah, I know this is hard. But she was really adamant. Like, no, what are we going to do?
00:16:18
Speaker
We have to do something. was like, well, that's a big question. And then she was like, no, what are you going to do? Like your i don't know if we've ever told that ah on the podcast, even our podcast that like it wasn't a what are we going to do? Issa threw her tears and everything. I was like, I know, sis, it's really hard. George Floyd had just gotten murdered. All these things were like the world was falling. and falling apart and she was like no no no no what are you gonna do you have knowledge and abilities and skill sets and wisdom and like how are you gonna step up to the plate you can't hide anymore right like we can't hide anymore we can't be quiet we can't stay silent we can't it's not okay and I was moved by that and I was like
00:17:07
Speaker
damn you calling me out our our our brother-in-law says that so I literally said that back to her and she was like she stayed in the pocket she was like yeah I am and there was like this pause and I was like I don't know um I don't know sis but it's weird and it's gonna sound weird but all I keep hearing is podcast why podcast I don't know why podcast it came through.
00:17:39
Speaker
and then i was a little weirded out because I was like, I keep hearing it too. Really? Yeah, no, we both. And I was like, oh, and from the side, like we've talked about it on our podcast, it was this like inner knowing, but no, it was like an outer spirit talking to us, you know, when people get really, well, we were spirit, but it was a more concretely like,
00:18:04
Speaker
and and a knowing like oh we can't ignore this we hear this from our intuition from the other side from somewhere this is this is a like almost when you get goose but when you jinx someone when we say to the same time you're thinking the same thing it was like something in the ether was thinking it and telling us and when we both were independently thinking it and so then we listen I listened we both were like okay I knew fucking nothing about doing a podcast I had no desire either.
00:18:35
Speaker
No, I mean, and i didn't ever even think about that. I had skills as an actor. I like I love talking, but I didn't I didn't know the first thing. And so but I did trust that voice, that thing I heard. And since she heard it, too, I was like, I guess we're doing this.
00:18:55
Speaker
Yep. Tell me about the the the the beginnings of the podcast, even before I joined the team. Like what were, was there anything like, we got to talk about this and then we got to talk about this. Was there any topics that came to mind that bubbled up first?
00:19:11
Speaker
Well, I was going to say, it's funny because it would be great if we jumped right into recording. We did not. We we were like, we don't know anything. Let's go learn something. And Issa found this course. What was it?
00:19:25
Speaker
It was Jenna Kutcher's podcast lab course. And was like, I think we should i would do a retreat and learn about podcasting. And she has this course that like lays it out for us. But the previous conversation that Issa already enumerated about earlier of like what the podcast is about was our pre-talk of like what what is this podcast going to be about? And it was, I think, further into that same conversation, we were like, well, how do we change? how do we change the world like how do we change how do we affect change yeah and it came back like isa said like well we have to work on ourselves like okay that's what the podcast gonna be about we're gonna figure out how do we change ourselves for the better are like our personal growth and we're gonna follow that and i think the first part was like well if we're gonna grow into podcasters we have to learn how to
00:20:12
Speaker
podcast like what do you do and that course was awesome so we went into education that was what we did for ourselves to start and then topics how we is that what you're asked yeah if if you had any topics you're like we have to cover this Yeah, I remember us just kind of musing on what would be cool. Like what would be really cool? Like if we talked to like a neuroscientist or about change or if we had like, you know, Neil deGrasse Tyson on about like we really just let ourselves kind of imagine, you know, what would be really cool, what we would want.
00:20:50
Speaker
And then we were like, okay well, what have we already done? Like, how have we changed? Like, we realized we're like, well we've spent a lot of, we spent a lot of money, time, energy, um you know, just tears getting, getting, getting ourselves, you know, where we we are today at the time. we,
00:21:11
Speaker
We looked around, we realized like we are not farther along than people, but we do have want to be in service. And we know like we've helped our friends. We've you know, we have things to offer was yeah inside that conversation and beyond. So we kind of were like, well what have we done?
00:21:25
Speaker
Well, we've done somatic therapies. I've done Akashic Records. We've done therapy. We've done gotten degrees like we've we've done things, you know, we've had conversations. So we we just kind of started to that was where we started.
00:21:38
Speaker
Okay. Yeah. And we also realized there's one big thing about change that has helped us is we we didn't do it alone. Yeah. We're like, oh, you know, we've experienced change and we're going to continue to experience change. But what has helped us the most are these like teams of people and practitioners and tools that we've put together for ourselves to help us cope through those times and grow and heal. And we wanted to bring that to our listeners to share those people that are amazing at what they do that we feel grateful and just happen to have been born into a place in a community that had these really wonderful healers.
00:22:19
Speaker
Yeah. And we wanted to be able to showcase them and share
Podcast Format and Embracing Imperfection
00:22:22
Speaker
them. And so we started there. And we also, i realized, like started to explore what what worked for us and then what were the gaps that we needed? so it was like we and we still do this to this day. Like, what are we going through? And we trust that it's going to help somebody else. So we talk about and then for structure, though, we talk about like we we started talking like, OK, what is this going to be like? Because Jenna Kutcher's course is like, ok you have to decide. Are you going to have guests on? Are you going to, you know, um be a solo podcast? And so we fell into the structure that is the structure we have because we're like, well, there's three different ways that we want to like help people talk to others or how we've been helped. actually it was like to talk to others or to gain information from friends or
00:23:12
Speaker
elders or you know other practitioners we go to the practitioners themselves but conversations so we have our so fa sofa series where we like interview people you know this yeah producer but um but then we also they don't so yeah and then they then we also have these what else helps like I remember I was saying like conversations help me.
00:23:33
Speaker
Yeah. Like co couch conversations where I'm having a hard time and a friend can come and show up. Help me. So we have. And then but you talking to you talking to my sister helps me. So we have the kitchen table talks where we talk. and try to work out our shit together. um And then come up with like, okay, that's a point.
00:23:52
Speaker
ah That's a recognition point. i I can change there. I need more help there. And then the other is more tactical in nature, which was our version of like, well, what do what do I go do? I go research or I go like dig dig and go to a therapist or go to a place and bringing those like kind of more tactical bite information is what we call it. Like, how can we actually affect change for people? and give them a shortcut or at least a hand up.
00:24:19
Speaker
Yeah, actionable. That was really important to us because like change is, you know, not ah like a you're not sitting on the bench of change. You're really in it and you're playing and and that actionable advice, actionable takeaways are important to have something to hold on to and move towards. so that was important to add the tactical bite in there.
00:24:39
Speaker
Yeah. I think one of my favorite things about um your podcast and and working with it behind the scenes, and I think that i think we used it was used as a tagline in the beginning, was because change messy or change is hard or change stifling. or like We pick like really...
00:25:00
Speaker
prickly words, I guess, to to summarize change. And I think this is one of the first podcasts um or even like just a source of learning period where it acknowledges that change is not quite so clean and neat and is actually pretty messy and turbulent at times and throws you to the wind. um Is there anything that you guys are you're like, i I don't know if that was a ah conscious...
00:25:27
Speaker
thing for you guys to call out but that's but i was like oh i really like that about it but is there anything about you guys that you're like i really like this portion of like i like this learning or this this highlight i think that we've put a spotlight on yeah that changes a process and that like he says that you're not going through it alone but more importantly like that you you have to go like a process you have to go through it and it's it's going to be messy and it has a purpose in terms of that's growth, like change is growth. And, but inside the podcast, this is like, I don't know if this is exactly answering the question, but it is something i want to highlight for myself and for anyone listening about this podcast or about us is that the project itself has made me grow and has called me to live in a way that
00:26:22
Speaker
I don't is the project. Like I'll give an example. When we were starting to turn on episodes and i did all that I did all the editing and I was starting to feel a lot of pressure and I was starting to like get stressed out about it and about the project about the project itself. And I was, this is a this is a normal behavior for me that is a dysfunctional behavior for me that is anxiety and pressurization.
00:26:50
Speaker
around creative creativity and i came to her at one point i remember i was sitting over here because we're recording in my house so i was standing at the edge of the stairwell and i was like i'm just i'm like not okay you know right and we had this conversation and isa pointed out to me she was like yeah the podcast is calling us to do something different yeah and so for me the and that really was a breakthrough because i was like right this is my project And this is it informing me how to grow and be better, be just be different, do something different. Yeah. Change. And so I felt like this just this podcast has been the impetus of change for me and I have allowed myself to change.
00:27:37
Speaker
Through it and it's through it like I need I needed this creative project to help me and I keep following that to Be the path in its nature the power that it is is to follow the truth of it and to be truthful about it and to hopefully let that reflect out in the episodes but just the behind the scenes yeah of it mirroring the real and that's what I think is different about our podcast is that like we try to keep it real we're not experts we're in it with everyone and we want that we want everyone to feel that they're in it with us because they actually are and we want to build community around it and that's really what we're building and so you have the real of change like Brene Brown says it like if you are coming up to her and be like I love vulnerability
00:28:27
Speaker
It's the best. Like, how can I do more? She's like, you're not doing it. Yeah. I hate vulnerability. Are you kidding me? Because it's it's it's it's icky it's icky and it it's hard and it's uncomfortable. And that's what I think. Vulnerability and change are synonymous in that way. Yeah.
00:28:44
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I agree. And I am honesty. hmm. I think that might be my favorite part of this project is the honesty that's gone into the project. It's one of the places that I feel i'm my most authentic self.
00:29:03
Speaker
The relationship that I have with Kiara and my ability to play the role of just me and who I really am and like how silly and weird and goofy and, um you know,
00:29:18
Speaker
that That might be my favorite part because for me, I've often worn masks or played roles in my life of, oh, I'm i'm the model and so I have to curate my Instagram feed this way or you know i'm you know work with children so I can't do like burlesque work. like I have to kind of segregate these parts of myself and and the podcast has allowed me to just be me and that feels really good and so that might be my favorite part you know of
00:29:51
Speaker
of the podcast is is the space allowed to be messy, yeah to be vulnerable, to be honest about what I'm going through and and trust that that may be the type of service that feels a little bit counterintuitive because it's not buttoned up and it's not luxury service. It's not with a cherry on top and in a serene spa environment, you know? but i think it it serves me the most and I have to trust that that will serve others as well to be...
00:30:21
Speaker
be okay with not being okay sometimes, you know? Yeah, or just feeling like the ground is no longer supporting you in the way that it used to. um i think that's the biggest thing. Yeah, no, I was sparked by thinking if someone thinking about listeners, you know, thinking about, oh, who's listening to this? And I think the biggest impact that being a podcaster, it's not being a podcaster, it's being a podcaster to this project. yeah the alignment of this project. That's been the biggest difference. I have recognized, because I've done a lot of different things, ah you know I went to school for interior design, I have a degree in art history, I um worked for myself as an entrepreneur, where I've worked for companies, I've sold furniture, I've been a you know fine dining server.
00:31:08
Speaker
But have you sold vacuum cleaners door to door? Not yet. Still on the list. She's like, you're so corny. I know. Teach,
00:31:20
Speaker
teach I just don't remind you, you chose this. chose
00:31:24
Speaker
chose both of you. He chose both of us. happily but then a like oh my god just for anybody who does watch this is like our production beings these are no but often i have like i'm not the funniest in the room that's for sure these two okay so what was my point i was saying you've lot of Oh, no, i but I've done a lot of things and I've i only recognized after Doing this podcast with my sister what it feels like to be in an aligned job and an aligned project I've done a lot of projects for other people and as I was saying like there wasn't the space to Be in process with myself I think was one but the other was just like it wasn't a line I didn't fucking care about those things and And when I look at it and how much easier, meaning like with ease, not easier as in like, oh, I have no difficulties. But like with ease, I mean, I can i can grow, i can be myself, like Isa was saying.
00:32:26
Speaker
and And it's never felt like work. yeah And I didn't ever believe that when people were like, oh, when you find what you yeah what you love, it won't feel like work. i was like, okay.
00:32:39
Speaker
I agree. I've never... really thought that that was real either or i have like didn't i think yeah you're right it's like the challenges don't go away but the how you approach them how you feel in them is different yeah i think i mean for me i think the the biggest thing that i've noticed just on on my end because i started jack no trades about six months i think before you guys did yours and um was it caught like I didn't realize how much that do doing something that was so out of my box of like my what I normally managed um because I was a project manager and I've worked in production and I've worked behind the scenes and I you know I did a little bit of acting but like nothing that really felt like this and nothing where it was like my voice specifically and that
00:33:29
Speaker
I didn't realize even the all the insecurities I had until I started to do it and then started to like build my confidence in it. And it's not even so much that like, am I executing perfectly? It's just more of a, okay, but can I do it? Yes. I've proven that to myself. Like normally a year ago, if you had said, Michelle um or Kiara, Isa, I'm going to put you guys on camera, I would have been a nervous wreck.
00:33:51
Speaker
going into this and i would have been up all night trying to figure out like okay well but this isn't going to be perfect i don't have the right camera skills and i don't have the right rigging and da da da and now it's kind of like okay all right well would it be nice if you had all that yes it would be fabulous however is where you're at this is what you can do so this is what you're gonna and can still feel good you can still feel good Like that's what's nuts or it can be uncomfortable. But then it's like you've taught me like, but it gets done.
00:34:19
Speaker
And it gets done. it It can it can actually get out into the world. And it's not yeah hidden and staved on our hard drives and not going anywhere. And that permission with the podcast of like one of the other themes is like, you know, the almost clan comes from almost is good enough.
00:34:36
Speaker
it It can be. Yeah. Like if if you just keep showing up, a lot of almost means a lot of of stuff of movement. Yeah. And I think that's beautiful what you're saying that you're able to do that. That is not easy.
00:34:50
Speaker
No. And I didn't even realize exactly how much how much that fed into other things. where It's like, OK, all right. Well, you know, it's not gonna be perfect, but it's gonna be there. How do you how did you get to that place?
00:35:03
Speaker
Fucking up a lot. um I think some of it also for me at least was because I'm older. im Something happened around year 40 that
Overcoming Insecurities Through Podcasting
00:35:13
Speaker
I just got. I heard somebody else say it this way and I thought it was really funny. um I got a ah big old case of the fuck it's and like was like, you know what? you' i I only know that i I am here now. I don't know for how much longer. um What do I want my story to be?
00:35:31
Speaker
And it it it i have no control over you know, whether or not someone hires me, whether or not someone likes me, whether or not someone, you know, wants to um work with me, period. I can't control, there's so much I cannot control.
00:35:48
Speaker
This is one thing I can control. It's wildly um uncomfortable at times. Like, I'm not very good at putting myself out there. I'm like, hi want to come on at podcast um still one of like the like the more not cringy but Yeah. kind of uncomfortable icky kind of conversations of things like that like what are you working on and then i have to talk about this it's vulnerable it's vulnerable yeah So it's still not like, I wouldn't say i'm I'm great at it, but I've proven to myself that I can't do it. And I think enough of times you do that and say that I'm gonna do what I say I'm gonna do.
00:36:23
Speaker
And also I'm gonna really try not just do you know half-assed whatever. And if it doesn't fall out, that's fine. Don't do that. You're not actually on the hook for it. Cause you're like, I didn't really try fully. I didn't really put myself out there. So like, if I had, I probably could have gone. Exactly. You don't have to actually face failure. Yeah, you can be like, I'm still perfect because my perfectionist rendition in my head of what did I thought I was going to do? Well, I didn't really try to do that anyways. Yeah. So that is such a cunning. That little voice there is a little bitch. I cannot stand that voice, but I've... You're making that voice your bitch by doing Yeah. I've been trying, but it's not easy. I mean, that's part of the reason why when you guys were like, hey, you want to continue to, excuse me, produce with me? I was like, I mean, okay, let's try this. Because it's also, yes, it's outside of my wheel box. It's one thing to tell myself what I'm going to be doing. It's not that I'm going to be like, have you guys thought about this?
00:37:22
Speaker
Oh, man. Do you like this idea? I'm so glad you do because you're so good at it, dude. Yeah. That's also a really interesting new perspective I've never thought about of you producing our podcast is the vulnerability that you have coming into that role and suggesting things like for us, it feels so fucking helpful and just like so um Almost like, well, Misha's providing everything we could possibly need to do. We just got to show up and do those things, you know? Like, that's what it feels like to us. So to hear you even express that, like, that is a that is a process that is vulnerable for you and that you you, you know, put those inputs in and ride that line of, like, how much do I tell, how much do I suggest to them? How much do I guide them? How much do I, when do I pull back and say, like, this is a decision for you guys to make versus where we're like, Misha, will make this decision for us? You know, like... I never really thought about that. So thank you for of course for continuing to show up even in uncomfortable ways for your own growth and for the podcast and for to support us. Yeah. Well, i mean, you you guys have been open enough with me about, you know, times when you're like, I'm not feeling so... I'm feeling so hot right now. It's like, again, it's the honesty, right? Like, that feels so good. i mean, the podcast... I thought you were saying, like, today, Junior. I was like, wait, what? What happened?
00:38:42
Speaker
No, i said I said, like, today. and I have this giant cup of tea. I swear it's not alcohol, it's tea. Yeah. It's so big. It's a it's a bowl of tea. oh Those are my favorites. I'm grateful. I made that bowl for her.
00:38:59
Speaker
Because I needed it. Because today is one of those days that I'm not okay. And I'm showing up because it was still totally worth it. I'm still here. But I will say, oh, can I just say it's worth it and and easier because it's you.
00:39:13
Speaker
i will say that. And your commitment to what you were saying earlier about just, you know, like it is where where it is. i am where I am. I'm learning, like lowers the cortisol levels in my body full stop where I can be like, oh, this isn't a performative space. This is a space of what's real. Yeah. Okay.
00:39:37
Speaker
That means i can show up where I am and trust and not be anxious. Yeah. About it. And that's, that's you. You're doing that for, for me.
00:39:48
Speaker
Well, cause I can't operate that way.
00:39:53
Speaker
Yeah.
00:40:01
Speaker
There was something you said pre-talk actually about how we got here and what's the process like that I remember thinking, oh, I really want to highlight that about. Oh, oh, I remember. Is that all right if I just kind of? Of course, go for it. Well, because you would were talking pre-talk about like, or talking pre-recording, sorry, not pre-talk. What the fuck is pre-talk? When we talk pre-talk. Promo,
00:40:25
Speaker
promo two. Got it, got it. yeah I was going to say like um the where how it all fits in. Sometimes you you were you were saying like, how did you get here to being a podcaster? You know, that was one of the pre questions of thinking about it. And I was like, I remember that I took ah because of one of my other.
00:40:49
Speaker
careers as i was as i was pursuing acting my other career is a consultant and i do like career coaching life consulting and i do it through a spiritual lens of the akashic records and at the time i was but pre-2020 i think it was i was doing a course called dca what it was it it was um digital course digital course academy so ok and it was for putting together a digital course because this was the thing everybody was selling and it was a lot of money and i went in with it with my friend which i've done so many different times and i got into this course and it was very thorough i'll remember the woman's name later and you can put it in the show notes but Really good.
00:41:33
Speaker
However, when I got to the place where she was like, okay in order to launch your course because I was gonna try to help people i have i have a couple courses I've taught in my time um around creativity or you know like and So I got to the place and she was like, okay now when you know she maps it all out and she's like so what you're gonna need is a platform You need a platform to release your course. You're gonna need a podcast. Are you're going to need ah to ah have you have at least a website? like There was all these different what what a platform could be. A social media platform. like Somewhere where you're gonna have to be successful, you're gonna have to have this place. yeah And so I remember that's where I stopped. I was like, okay.
00:42:12
Speaker
And that was in January of 2020. And this conversation we had about the podcast was later on in the spring, I want to say. Yeah, no, June, later in the summer because George Floyd got murdered. and So that was then. But I remember between, it was always so like icky. I was like, ah I don't want to be selling courses. And i and one of my courses, this is where I'm going with this, one of my courses was how to heal through your creative projects. It was something I had like downloaded with the Kaushik records and my own intuition around like what creativity actually looks like. How do you actually get something from a thought and a creative want out into the world? yeah And I led a woman's group to do this. Like it was called Arise and it was like, how do you, how do you really move creativity into tangibility? What does that look like? And I remember laughing about it like six months into our podcast, looking back and going, like,
00:43:04
Speaker
oh, this is my creative project. yeah This is me healing through my creative project. This is me, what it feels like to actually be aligned in a project.
00:43:17
Speaker
and And the irony was that I didn't try, that DCA course was my point. like I didn't go like, oh, I gotta go start a podcast now. That's gonna be my platform. yeah It was me following like alignment. And I turn around and I'm like, oh, look at that.
00:43:31
Speaker
I have even more than I could have envisioned, not like, oh, I have a community to sell to. Like, no I'm like building an authentic community with being authentic myself. And now I could actually help people if I wanted to even do that.
00:43:44
Speaker
yeah And that was just a really big eye opener to me instead of trying to chase something of like, okay, this is the calculation way that I need to do this. It was like, it found me. How do you be in alignment?
00:43:55
Speaker
And those things line up for you because they do. Yeah. Thank you for coming to Kiara's TED Talk. and Can't take you anywhere. Can't take you to anywhere. Okay.
00:44:10
Speaker
You can take her places, just not me. Not together. Is there anything um like the five years from now, still still through the lens of Ripple Laugh Fact Podcast, is there anything that you're like, would love to achieve this?
Future Aspirations and Learning Opportunities
00:44:23
Speaker
There's a lot. But the core of it, I think, is just to continue to show up and see where that can take us and take the podcast. i Follow the power of showing up.
00:44:37
Speaker
Yeah, and community. That's been, you know, a big a big want and need for us in change. Yeah. And growing that community because there's, you know, there's metrics of how successful your podcast is. And there's things like monetizing the podcast and needing to have more listens and viewership. and there's that, you know, logistical society of success thing.
00:45:04
Speaker
And then there's which which I want for the podcast, you know, like I would love it to be, you know, top of the charts and be, you know, legitimized in that way and monetize like i I really would. But beyond that, I think Chiara and I have both had moments with each other of being like, what if it worked?
00:45:22
Speaker
Like what if it actually worked? What if the podcast really did create a ripple effect of change? And we really did help a lot of people. And we really did create this community where people were able to be themselves and be vulnerable and be messy and have each other to lean on and actually make the changes in ourselves so that we can live in a better world. Like less dysfunction, more love. You know, what if it actually worked? yeah And so, you know,
00:45:52
Speaker
I don't know if that is a reality in all, you know, all of that without becoming a cult, you know, which is. important That's a minor distinction. But yes, thank you. yeah and We make a joke about that, but that's real because listen to everything. Listen back to what she said. And every cult leader has said that. That's OK. That's fair.
00:46:11
Speaker
Like, and that's it really important. Like, where we don't want followers. we want community. Yeah. yeah Which a cult leader would say that too. Yeah.
00:46:24
Speaker
any Any dream um contributor or ah person who would come on your podcast? You said Neil deGrasse Tyson earlier. I was like, oh. Oh, that would be a dream. that would that was He's freaking fabulous. But yeah, he's cool. But no, I think it's more, for me, it's more grounded in like the...
00:46:45
Speaker
as a guest, someone who teaches me something I don't know. i know that sounds really like, and I'm not like two things sounds like, Oh, I know everything. No, but genuinely like, I did not take it there.
00:47:00
Speaker
Oh, good. Good. Good. but like oh that's an interesting way to go. with yeah yeah emphasis was it No, no, I just meant like the just the reality of the the um the not the humbleness, but the simplicity of the podcast. It's like I just want to I just want to help myself.
00:47:23
Speaker
that's true and it sounds selfish but it's not when like you said earlier you said like but if helping myself i do believe that or i want to try to prove the hypothesis what if helping myself can help the whole yeah like what if that's true so bringing people on there's um a a fascia movement medicine woman named anna ray who i worked with when she lived in west hollywood who i think would be incredible to bring on to the podcast because she just has a wealth of the body and knowledge there's like like again more neuroscience if anyone wants to come on and talk about heart coherence and heart like how that whole thing works um but more just like yeah if there's something interesting that i don't know i want to know it so that would be cool it doesn't mean they need to have a title like i just would love that to be part of our learning. And when you said about what's, ah you know, ah what in five years, I think I just want to echo Issa said, I think if we're still doing the podcast, yeah which means it does get to get monetized for sustainability, for health of all, you know, holistic health is part of financial health. And, um but yeah, if we get to keep doing it, like that would be,
00:48:35
Speaker
Rad. yeah And I do believe we will. And so what it will look like, I, I'm like, well, we probably have to get video going at some point. No, but inside of our Patreon community, since we launched our Patreon to be able to have interaction and have people, you know, really talking to us about what, what they, what, what, what they want to use us as a resource for.
00:48:59
Speaker
I think that would be cool. Having someone write in and be like, Hey, I am having this issue with change or I'm not able to do this modality healing. Like, and then we have the money and the means to be like, I'll go do that for you and I'll report back. And and then you can listen in and you can hopefully get that help if we help people as a resource. Dude, that would be, that would be so cool. so I just wanted to add that.
00:49:22
Speaker
Yeah. How do people find you guys if they are interested in finding out more about Ripple Laugh Hack Podcast or you guys individually, whichever one you prefer?
Finding the Podcast Online
00:49:31
Speaker
You want to go to www.rippleeffect.com. That's affect with an A. And that takes you to our newsletter. And that is a newsletter landing page where you can sign up for a newsletter and you'll get um two bonuses. You'll get more information about the podcast and you get more information about your from your host, Michelle, because she writes it.
00:49:55
Speaker
She just released her first one and it's really, really beautiful and it's really, really informative and really, really helpful even after just one. So I'm looking forward to more. And that is a good place because they'll have updates about the Patreon. They'll get updates about everything. And then the other place is the Instagram for the Ripple Effect podcast. And that's at Ripple Effect Pod on Instagram and again Facebook. And that's Affect with an A. And that's where you can get to know Kiyada and I a little bit better. We have content on there that's just kind of more get to know us as hosts, as people, as sisters. So it's a good place to message us or just kind of, I pop in there mostly. Kiyada doesn't really go on there.
00:50:36
Speaker
Way to call you ah call out your sister. On purpose. And then, of course, the podcast you can find on Spotify or wherever you listen to your podcast podcast from. So it's Ripple Affect with an A. Can we say that one more time? It's Affect with an A. In case anyone doesn't know, it's Affect with an A. If you Google search it sometimes you have to put in the you have to put in the ripple affect with an A and it still changes it to effect. Yes, So you have to put ripple affect with an A and then with Cheech and Nibby, which are our nicknames. So I'm Nibby, this is Cheech. And if you put that in, then it'll actually generate.
00:51:12
Speaker
so Do you want to call out any upcoming episodes that ah people can expect in the new year? Yes, I do. i have a sofa series, which is when I enter when the sofa series are when either one of us individually interview someone. And I have a sofa series coming up with my dear friend and practitioner, Helen Vonderheide, where she breaks down the Akashic records and all kinds of different and spiritual things.
00:51:40
Speaker
modalities but she grounds them really well and I think that that is something that I really want people to listen to because if they don't have a context for some of this woo-woo stuff she pulls it into where it's actually helpful and actually applicable so I'm really looking forward to that one and what other ones do we have Oh, and Ryan O'Shea is a vo voice and presence coach that i interviewed that I took classes with her that were so fucking dope. And she is she has a certification in organic ah intelligence, which she goes into as well. And it's like.
00:52:19
Speaker
it takes again some of these concepts of like presentness or you know like just just these things that can get out there and she just puts them in these concrete terms that are really applicable and just usable and I'm real excited for people to listen to that one as well so both of those are sofa series that I did and you were about to interview Danny oh I'm going to try to call him out too. I'm still trying to get him on the podcast. So I have this dear friend, Danny, who is an Englishman and has the best... The Englishman.
00:52:52
Speaker
Best voice. And we've always had really good conversations about change and the world. And our conversations kind of duck walk. You know, they go into like, what if there were...
00:53:02
Speaker
What if we had sister communities on different ends of the globe and like we'd help each other with resources or things like that? You know, we just have these really deep, wonderful conversations that sometimes are philosophical, sometimes go into history. He's great. He knows so much history. So I'm trying to get him on the podcast and I'm I'm massaging.
00:53:21
Speaker
him into being brave enough to come on air just send him this this podcast i'm gonna send him this podcast i'm gonna tell him and i would say danny don't worry about what your friends think he's like what did he say like what if what if um what what if Angela hears it? No, who was it? Who was it? Angela. Yeah. He's like, what if Angela hears it? It's okay. She's not going to judge you. You know, fuck Angela. I'm just kidding. kidding'm kidding. I think I love you, Angela.
00:53:51
Speaker
It was funny. It was funny. No. So that one, i'm I'm trying to get him on just to have a good, um just a conversation about change in the state of our world right now. But I also have been feeling called to do some tactical or maybe interview style interviews or interview style episode around grief and like unresolved grief and processing grief, grief communication Because I think because that's something that i have experienced a lot in my life and I'm still working on processing and going through as well as anxiety.
00:54:25
Speaker
And so those I think and learning about anxiety in school for psychology and also the lived experience of anxiety and just there's so many details even with social anxiety.
00:54:36
Speaker
It's it's the most common form of anxiety and it's the least treated. And there there is help for that. So I just want to try and get more information, again, just like Kiada said, to to mirror or mimic what she said to help myself and also, hold you know, hold true that that will help others. Yeah.
00:54:54
Speaker
I love that. And along that lines, i we've talked about it, so i want to mention too, the tactical that I'm wanting to put out there is one of about asking. Hmm.
00:55:05
Speaker
And The Art of Asking was a book I read by Amanda Palmer, but beyond that, like how important asking for support is and the vulnerability that comes up, the difficulty it comes up to receive when you do, just that process of what it looks like to actually get support, what what does that mean? And ask the ask is a part of that and trying to help people with that and help myself with that and what it looks like to receive support, I think would be a good tactical as well, so.
00:55:35
Speaker
Hopefully that will be in the new year.
00:55:47
Speaker
So these there's no right answer to these. And so I'll just jump into these. What is your favorite sound? I know, right? Yeah. See, you weren't expecting that, were you? Oh, yeah.
00:55:59
Speaker
I think it's a toss-up between a fire crackling. Ooh, that's a good one. And... Oh, there's three. Mish. Well... can just one. Okay, okay. Then I know what it is. My favorite sound is the sound of a red-tailed hawk making its call.
00:56:16
Speaker
That is very specific. Okay. That's one of my favorite sounds in the whole world.
00:56:22
Speaker
That's a good one. I never thought about that, but I like that sound. What is my favorite sound? Yeah. Yeah, it used to be the sound of my husband giggling and now it's the sound of my son's giggle.
00:56:36
Speaker
I have to say. it's it's ah it's It goes in and touches me in a way that is so good and I think that's why it's my favorite, yeah.
00:56:47
Speaker
Kind hard not to say that one. I know. I would hear people say I'm like, come up with something else but now that I'm in it, I'm like, no, that is so that is it. I think that's that's fair. and i and Me neither. Not now.
00:57:02
Speaker
What's your least favorite sound? Did you say Kiara singing? yeah ah yeah all right yes yes yes stirring the pot right before muttly this is great um my favorite my my least favorite sound good rest of your day guys um is someone in anguish yeah hearing someone in anguish and then my son being in anguish is is hard Least favorite sound.
00:57:30
Speaker
Yeah, that's it's similar probably but on a broader scale Screaming like someone's screaming. That's very alarming to me Same I don't I don't do all the screaming I also really don't like the way a balloon when someone's fingers go on it that gets me in my inner loop.
00:57:50
Speaker
Okay, sorry. I just felt that um What is your favorite word? I came in so I'll just say it. ah Love, love came in. I don't know. That's a good word. Yeah.
00:58:01
Speaker
thought you were going to say something ridiculous. That's so cheesy. That's not cheesy. human thank you I think it was because it's like when you said the but favorite. No, I know. When you said the favorite, my favorite, you said favorite word. Yeah. i i I went beyond the words and like the feelings came. And so it wasn't really answering what my favorite word is, but my favorite word association.
00:58:25
Speaker
Yeah, something similar happened to me. and i thought there's this word that I really like because of the sound at the end that is very unique. And it's the plural of wasp.
00:58:38
Speaker
What is the plural of wasp? Wasps. So you just like the sps, sps, sps. Okay. but profound saying love and I'm like was it's because I didn't answer the question i just went like to association so anyway there's no right or wrong answer to these questions okay what's your least favorite word god that I am just a walking cliche hate but that actually is my least favorite word no I really don't like like I try not to use hate when they say it like really jars me and i'm like no no like that's it's because it leads to all kinds of terrible things and it just doesn't even it isn't even real and I just I really do not like that word I don't hmm something definitely does a lot bad taste in your mouth whatever wouldn no I don't know I'm like i'm confused I'm like what is my least favorite word it's challenging to think of no
00:59:33
Speaker
can't no mine no might be my least favorite word no no yeah well except for when solomon says it uh and then your favorite place and then i only have one more on the globe like favorite place like location or favorite place like you can kind of take it wherever i want okay
00:59:57
Speaker
I think it might be oddly specific, but it might be like on a whole a beach on Kauai. That might be one of my favorites. A beach on Kauai. Sounds amazing. Yeah, I could see why. A song about it. Yeah.
01:00:12
Speaker
My favorite place, it still is, yeah, is Lake Atitlan. Okay. Yeah, in Guatemala, there's a mountain lake where we own land. And every time I'm in that lake or near that lake, it's it's perfect for me, yeah.
01:00:26
Speaker
That sounds amazing. Yeah. What's your favorite curse word? Oh, I go first. um I was trying to think of what that fuck is definitely my favorite curse word, but there's a there's also like a mashup that I do that i realize I use a lot, so it's gotta my favorite. It's like motherfucking shit.
01:00:45
Speaker
Wait, I think I would take this one for my dad. So he used to like cast and say, fuck, shit, mierda, when we were kids. Oh, yeah. But in his later years, he's changed up his tune. And he says, now he just says, what the fuck? Yeah.
01:01:01
Speaker
so good the question to it you know it's so good I think that might be my favorite like cuss little sentences oh yeah no my grandfather this is why how I started like I became a fan of cursing because my grandfather who is Ecuadorian cursed all the time I think that's how we learned our first curse words What would he say? Well, when I got older, it was always piece of the shit.
01:01:28
Speaker
And now i i every time someone says this piece of shit, I i hear grandfather's voice in my head being piece of the shit. So that's one of my favorite ones. So yes, I get the whole phrases. yeah I get that. um That wraps up this episode of Jack of the Trades. Thank you very much, you guys. Thank you so much for having us, Misha. It was such a pleasure. You're the best. Thank you. Thank you, my friend.
01:01:55
Speaker
And that wraps it up for us today. If you want to listen to the Ripple Effect podcast, you can find them wherever you listen to your podcast. That's Ripple Effect with an A. I would also suggest searching with Cheech and Nibby. You can also find them on Patreon. Both of these things are located in my show notes. That's it for today. Thank you very much for listening. See you next time.
01:02:18
Speaker
All right, that's it for today's episode. A big thank you to Mish for having us on the Jack of No Trades podcast and for everything she does behind the scenes to help bring this podcast to life. If you enjoyed this conversation, you can find more of her work on Instagram at jackofnotradespodcast. definitely go give her a follow and check out the show.
01:02:42
Speaker
As always, if something in this episode resonated with you, feel free to share it with somebody who might enjoy it. We drop our episodes every two weeks. At least we try. So we'll see you back here soon.
01:02:56
Speaker
Ciao.
01:03:02
Speaker
Okay. i i think we did it. Listen, I don't know what we did, but we did it. Thanks for listening to another episode of The Ripple Affect. We're looking forward to exploring a different facet of change with you next time.
01:03:17
Speaker
If you found value in this episode, please take a second to leave us a review and share with a friend. Every little bit helps The Ripple go farther. Thanks for being a part of this experiment with us.
01:03:28
Speaker
And remember, we're way more connected and deserving than society's false sense of separation dictates us to be. You're not just one person. Your singular efforts do make the collective change possible. We're going to keep showing up and we'll never get to perfection. But if we allow the process to be the solution, we can trust that small ripples will make big waves.
01:03:49
Speaker
Changing yourself changes the ripple. And what if a collective almost is good enough?
01:03:57
Speaker
This episode was produced by Kiatta Maya, Issa Griffin, and Michelle Asaro. Audio editing by Jessica Ansari. And music by the talented Mia Casasanta.
01:04:07
Speaker
Thank you all. This podcast is not possible without the contribution of your skills, talent, support, and generosity.