Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Medication & Mental Health: A Candid Check-In | A Kitchen Table Talk
47 Plays1 month ago
In this Kitchen Table Talk-style episode of The Ripple Affect, hosts Cheech and Nibby drop in for a real-time check-in and update on the layered reality of making big life decisions. From navigating identity shifts in early motherhood to post-grad uncertainty and the internalized pressure to “get it right,” this conversation explores how old patterns of control, shame, and productivity show up when the stakes feel high.
Together, they reflect on their evolving relationships with mental health support, including therapy and medication, and the stigma that often accompanies both. The episode touches on permission to slow down, the emotional toll of trying to hold it all together, and the healing power of self-compassion and honest dialogue.
For anyone feeling the tension between who they’ve been and who they’re becoming, this one offers warmth, resonance, and a gentle reminder: you don’t have to do it all alone.
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to The Ripple Affect
00:00:04
Speaker
You're listening to The Ripple Affect with your hosts, Cheech and Nippy, a podcast that explores how individual change has the capacity to affect the
Merging Ancient Wisdom with Modern Knowledge
00:00:12
Speaker
whole. From neuroscience to donuts, we're two sisters with a deep curiosity for ancient wisdom and modern knowledge, and we're obsessed with learning alongside you because we don't know.
00:00:24
Speaker
Let's dive in.
Meet the Hosts: Issa and Kiara
00:00:28
Speaker
Welcome back to another episode of the Ripple Effect podcast. This is Issa, a.k.a. Nibby. And this is Kiara, a.k.a. Cheech. That's her voice.
00:00:39
Speaker
That's her voice. We try to make it not confusing, but I think we just confuse the We made it way more confusing. One day you'll be able to tell our voices apart.
Personal Journeys with Mental Health
00:00:49
Speaker
Okay, today we're bringing you another kitchen table talk where we sit down and we get real about life, emotions, and the challenges that come with big decisions. Get real, get real. This episode does dive deep into mental health, our own, and the tricky process of deciding when to seek support, how to seek support, whether it's through therapy, medications, or other self-care tools.
00:01:12
Speaker
We open up about our own experiences with anxiety and how we've navigated therapy and the internal debate around taking medication for mental health. It's an honest conversation about the weight of these choices and the importance of trusting yourself in the process. And we also unpack the stigma around seeking help, the role of self-advocacy in the medical system, and how to know when it's time to try something new, like ah breaking up with your therapist or your significant other. And the best part, we have this conversation the way we always do, unscripted, raw, and from the heart. So grab your warm bevy, your steering wheel, or some dishes, and we're going to dive in. Enjoy.
00:01:58
Speaker
How amazing is it that we just wanted to record and then we just picked up our mics and could record? so we didn't know what to do. Rewind to the days where it was like one hundred million chords. And you'd be like, can wait, can you hear you? Can you hear me?
00:02:13
Speaker
I can hear you, but I can't hear me. I can hear me, but I can't hear you. he did and We couldn't hear each other at all. there it was a very large learning curve. for a while this is awesome i'm grateful this moment where we got to where we could just be like want record yeah sure here we go you go here you i am too i'm very grateful a lot of times we'll just pick up our phones and record which has been our habit lately because we do this thing where we hear podcast one of us will hear like the
00:02:47
Speaker
how do you describe that process?
Podcast Recording Process
00:02:50
Speaker
Like that experience rather, where it's like almost like my intuition or the project itself speaks to me and I'll hear, you know, a non-verbalized communication that goes, podcast, record.
00:03:04
Speaker
And then I'll either say it to you or you'll hear it and say it to me. And then we'll we'll start. You know, this is how we talk to each other. You know, we have good, deeper conversations just in the kitchen. with Hence the kitchen table talk title. Usually they're on our phones, which we have ah allocated all those recordings toward our Patreon channel. They're a little more candid and they're caught in the moment.
00:03:28
Speaker
Well, that's what we just did right now, though. That's what i'm saying is it was cool because now we like picked up where we're like, oh, I heard podcasts and we happen to be by recording equipment. We're like, oh, that's OK. So here we are.
00:03:39
Speaker
Yeah.
Issa's Anxiety Story
00:03:40
Speaker
You were talking very vulnerably. i don't know if you want to continue sharing about it, but that was purpose of why we picked up our mics was about having to make a a pretty important health decision potentially.
00:03:54
Speaker
yeah, just talking about my anxiety and how bad it's gotten to where I was prescribed medication for it. And I'm processing just that reality that my doctor concurred that this is a big enough issue to warrant prescription. Can I ask you, because I don't know this about you, which is funny or just odd. Have you, have you dealt with anxiety for a long period of time or in your life in the past? Has that been something that you've suffered from?
00:04:37
Speaker
It's interesting because I've i've suffered. No, I think for a long time, i was unaware that that's what I was experiencing.
00:04:49
Speaker
And I became used to the feeling. It never became so intense that I felt it was a hindrance to my daily life. In some regards, I feel as though I've had anxiety for a long time, but More recently, i would say in my 30s, has it become clear and has caused negative effects on my experience?
00:05:16
Speaker
Okay. did you like Is this the first time you were seeking that type of support? i trying to think about the history of this.
00:05:28
Speaker
I've self-soothed a lot of my anxiety with meditation, reading, nature. with reading nature But this is the first time I've ever had it become so strong in my system that I was aware that i I'm not able to cope. My tools are not working for me. i feel connected.
Kiara's Anxiety and Motherhood
00:05:54
Speaker
You were talking very vulnerably. i don't know if you want to continue sharing about it, but that was the purpose of why we picked up our mics, was about having to make a a pretty...
00:06:06
Speaker
important health decision potentially? Yeah, just talking about my anxiety and how bad it's gotten to where I was prescribed medication for it.
00:06:18
Speaker
And I'm processing just that reality that my doctor concurred that this is a big enough issue to warrant prescription. Can I ask you, because I don't know this about you, which is funny or just odd. Have you, have you dealt with anxiety for a long period of time or in your life in the past? Has that been something that you've suffered from?
00:06:51
Speaker
It's interesting because I've i've suffered. No, I think for a long time, i was unaware that that's what I was experiencing. And I became used to the feeling.
00:07:06
Speaker
It never became so intense that I felt it was a hindrance to my daily life. In some regards, I feel as though I've had anxiety for a long time, but More recently, i would say in my 30s, has it become clear and has caused negative effects on my experience?
00:07:30
Speaker
Okay. did you like Is this the first time you were seeking that type of support? i trying to think about the history of this.
00:07:42
Speaker
I've self-soothed a lot of my anxiety with meditation, reading, nature. with reading nature But this is the first time I've ever had it become so strong in my system that I was aware that i I'm not able to cope. My tools are not working for me.
00:08:06
Speaker
I feel connected to what you're saying because having a baby The experience is so new and um so intense that I was telling my therapist, I can see like i can see myself acting a certain way.
00:08:22
Speaker
It feels like I kind of don't have any control over it.
Self-Advocacy in Healthcare
00:08:25
Speaker
It just is kind of happening. The anxiousness, the the thoughts, the intensity of, um yeah, anxiety.
00:08:36
Speaker
And even some depression symptoms feel that same way. I'm starting to acknowledge and recognize that this is anxiety and this is a symptom of my situation and what I'm going through in life right now. And this is the way my body is reacting to this situation.
00:08:52
Speaker
This is not me. This is my body trying to find stability and it's having a hard time doing that. And dealing with uncertainty and dealing with the lack of perceived control over my circumstances, which is really similar to what you said, that you know not having an internal locus of control is problematic.
00:09:18
Speaker
You know, when when we know that we have effect on our lives and that we have autonomy and that we have agency and we can take action and that action will have, you know, consequence, positive, negative.
00:09:32
Speaker
then we can really be the drivers of our lives. And right now, in my experience, I'm trying to do that. I'm grasping at that. And... I just get flooded with these emotions and flooded with the... And it feels like it's wrapped into the grief of my breakup, the insecurity and safety situations from my childhood. It feels like connected to this not enoughness pattern. It's connected to this, I have to figure this shit out and I'm all by myself, this non-belonging, this...
00:10:10
Speaker
wanting to get away, like all these things, they they just kind of pile in and then it all becomes emotionally too much. And it manifests in these feelings of dread. And when I was at my doctor's appointment, and me I didn't expect it, but I was expressing to him that I had oh you said the this episode of...
00:10:33
Speaker
these emotions while I was driving. And as I was telling him, like, I don't know, it just felt like it just felt like i said, dread. And then my, the floodgates just broke loose. And I just started bawling, crying in my doctor's office, which I did not expect to do.
00:10:52
Speaker
And he was very gracious and, you know, made it clear that it was a safe place and that like this is very normal to when reliving these situations to have these emotions and was kind and and
Medication and Therapy Approaches
00:11:04
Speaker
helpful. And then, you know, started to work with me on a plan of what I want to do and how I want to take care of it because I've been going to anxiety groups using my Calm app that they prescribed me for free through my insurance. Been using my journal like I've been doing the things. It's not enough.
00:11:22
Speaker
Yeah, man. I know my experience of anxiety and I don't want that for you. Because like when you're talking, I almost want to laugh inside, not at you by any stretch, but at me for ah what you said earlier about going for so many years, experiencing what you're describing in my own version of it and just white knuckling it. And so like thinking,
00:11:51
Speaker
back now, i think back to my younger self going like, oh man, yeah, you could have tried some things, you know? um Not that I wasn't, but just just ah just I related to that, those feelings.
00:12:04
Speaker
It just sucks, man. It does. It does. And dealing with the reality of like, you know, we talked about before of I want, and I told my doctor this too, I want to be engaged and embodied in my own experience as a human. I don't want to negate these feelings. I don't want to medicate them away. i don't, I don't, I want to get to the root of these, the cause of this. And, and, you know, the honest truth is like, fix it. and The mind wants that. you know I want to feel serenity. I want to have peace. I want to be clear. It's hard. I'm struggling with the medication part. because I think you said too, though, that your doctor was said something really interesting about how it' that takes a lot of energy to deal with. Will you say it? Because you... Yeah, he he put it really well. He said the point or the the goal of these medications is not to change you.
00:13:06
Speaker
The goal is to get you back to feeling yourself because what happens when we're experiencing anxiety on one end of the spectrum or depression on the other is it takes a lot of energy to be operating in that state so much so that you can't be yourself. You can't, you're not able to think the way you would think as you, as without anxiety. The baseline is what my therapist was talking to me about. Like, I think you should go on an antidepressant and that's safe
Types of Therapy and Personalization
00:13:38
Speaker
for mama's breastfeeding.
00:13:39
Speaker
I said, what do people experience that you have seen go on this drug? And he was like, yeah, there's a lot of times they say they just get to like experience a baseline that when they get there, they look around and go like, is this what everybody else has just been feeling?
00:13:58
Speaker
Like, this is this is this is just how the rest of everybody's walking around. And I had a friend who said like, Yeah, I don't know. This is what normies feel like. This is this is just what what everybody's experiencing is that non-anxiety space.
00:14:13
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. Do you feel comfortable sharing what medication that is? Do you know the name of it? the So Zoloft was what got prescribed to or recommended to me by my general a practitioner because it's the safest for moms while breastfeeding. this is a new world for me. Like, I don't take prescription drugs of any kind. It's odd that I'm considering this drug so closely on usage when... There is simplicity to symptomatology.
00:14:46
Speaker
Have you ever seen the movie Boondock Saints? oh You've never seen the movie Boondock Saints? If I could... if i could If I got a nickel for every time someone has had that attitude and said those words to me about movies have seen. Well, because you watch trash movies. have to say, you spend a lot of time watching trash movies. They're trash. So one person's trash is another person's treasure. Fuck off. Okay, Boondock Saints, really good movie.
00:15:13
Speaker
There's a scene with Willem Dafoe where he's a detective and this lowered lower detective who's like the buffoon in the scene iss like trying to help him solve this case.
00:15:29
Speaker
And Willem Dafoe like, what do you think? and he's Willem Dafoe is like going off and then the buffoon detective interrupts and goes, what's the symbology of that?
00:15:41
Speaker
and willem de feux looks at him and the character is just so good and he goes symbolism the word looking for is symbolism and every time you say symbology that's the only thing i think about i think symptomatology it's sorryology every time you say symptomatology i think about that yeah i see it Yeah. Can you say more about that? Symptomatology is ah is the reason psychology is now considered a science because it's all based on statistics and diagnostics of symptoms. So you run enough people having these similar symptoms, then you can say they're experiencing this disorder or this condition.
00:16:29
Speaker
That's helpful and fair because I run into this in mental health evaluations. It happened when I went and was trying to get a certification for my dog for emotional support animal. And I got in touch with a therapist who, you know, evaluated that and told them the honest truth about what I was experiencing. And she was like, yeah, you have PTSD. And I remember being like...
00:16:52
Speaker
huh I will make this distinction though, because this is important to stress. Your diagnosis is as good as the clinician who gives it
Therapist-Client Relationship and Trust
00:17:03
Speaker
to you. I'm glad you said that. Thank you.
00:17:05
Speaker
Because this is what I struggle with. Part of me goes like, wow, I finally was honest. And I told people what I was really feeling and they're evaluating me. And this is the accuracy of what's reflected back. You got to listen to this. And that's the other split goes, these know the fuck they're talking about. They talked to me for 15 minutes. Like, how would they really know? And it's more complex than that. And but I'm also reverent to people, to science and to people who work in that field where I want to trust them. Trust. That's the key word. It's important to trust the person that you're working with. That's why I think it's a good idea that you're running it by your therapist who you have a longstanding relationship with. um Because some our system doesn't always allow for a development of a relationship with a psychiatrist who can prescribe you the drug. Like me and my doctor, i do trust him. And and I do trust that i can make a decision for myself with him and my team of people that I trust and know my experience. Team, that's a good point because I definitely have the the general practitioner. I don't know why I kept referring to her as that, but she's my primary care physician. um And I've known her for a while, but I only go to the doctor once ah
00:18:23
Speaker
year for a wellness exam until I got
Medication Considerations for Anxiety
00:18:26
Speaker
pregnant. And that was the first time I've ever experienced more interaction with the medical field than any other time in my whole life. Oh, dude, I vetted all my options for my doctors. I looked them up.
00:18:36
Speaker
I read their bios. I looked at their LinkedIn. I like looked at their photos to see which ones like resonated with me. i found somebody that I was like, okay, I think I can be cool with this person. And then I tried it and it did work. But like,
00:18:50
Speaker
That's great. You can break up with your therapist. You can break up with your doctor. You so you you have permission to like find somebody who you trust and feel comfortable and confident in. Thanks. Yeah, that makes sense.
00:19:05
Speaker
I think I have a hard time trusting the medical field. But after my birth experience, actually, that's healed a lot. A lot, a lot. That's cool. Yeah, that was good.
00:19:16
Speaker
I wanted to just go back because you talked about the commitment of of getting on medication. And to make the distinction of my experience is,
00:19:26
Speaker
For for me two routes were presented. One was the more like daily prescription of the serotonin reuptake inhibitor, which just means in the brain, the receptor on one side of the neuron that usually grabs the serotonin and processes it is blocked.
00:19:46
Speaker
So then the the space in between the neurons gets flooded with extra serotonin. So there's just more serotonin in the brain all the time. that The blocking is what the drug does. Yeah. The blocking is what the drug does. So it helps the buildup of serotonin, which is an amazing neurotransmitter. Its existence proves to us that we know nothing about the brain because it does everything. It helps with sleep, mood, regulation, hormones. It doesn't just do one thing. It has been proven to help with depression, anxiety.
00:20:19
Speaker
So that's one route is like you take it daily and there's different options of drugs in that category and they don't always work. You kind of have to try different ones a lot of times and wait to see if they are working with your neurochemistry effectively.
00:20:34
Speaker
The other options are more like as needed. Those are like your your Xanax and your benzodiazepines. And those are not supposed to be used daily. And they have a more addictive constitution.
00:20:50
Speaker
My doctor prescribed Ativan similar to Xanax. It's just supposed to be used when you're having the panic attack or the anxiety attack.
00:21:00
Speaker
and It's for the most peak intense times. I think that depends on the how your doctor prescribes it. For me personally, that's how okay um it was suggested to use it if I needed it The experience that I had, this like overwhelming feelings of dread that were so strong that they affected my physiology to where my heart was pounding, where I was shaking.
00:21:24
Speaker
and In those moments, i my mind was very clear. I need help. This is beyond the scope of my abilities to be able to regulate.
00:21:37
Speaker
That's why we came to that solution, you know, for for me. It's not a commitment. You know, it's not like I'm taking something daily for six months or something like that. And there's still the reservation in me. I think there is that, I don't know, it's big pharma. I don't trust that it's healing.
00:21:56
Speaker
it's kind of like a not like an easy way out, but that it's not going to address, it's not going to address the underlying issues. It's not going to like fix the actual reason that this anxiety is coming up and that that's just the symptom of something deeper and it's not going to help that. But I'm starting to realize that like in this state, I can't find that.
00:22:18
Speaker
I can't sit in therapy and be regulated enough to try and explore what's happening because I'm, completely dysregulated.
Challenges in Therapy
00:22:30
Speaker
That's what my doctor said to me. She was like, I don't think therapy is going to be enough for what you're describing. i was like, oh, damn. All the therapy in the world can't help you, girl. When I was like, shit, what did I tell her? like if i Oh, my God. That's like when I got sent to CAPS.
00:22:47
Speaker
I got sent to CAPS by my professor. CAPS is like the um free counseling on on campus. And I wrote a reflection paper. Nobody in the class thought the professor was reading those. we we' were all convinced. like He just gives us credit for a word count. like He's not actually reading all these. And then we come to find out that he does because he flags one of my reflections because it was about the chapter on anger and violence.
00:23:18
Speaker
And I wrote about some childhood experiences. I have processed in in program. And so writing it was just another way of processing, but I didn't feel any like emotional charge towards it It wasn't challenging for me to express or anything like that. And he was like, I am so sorry you experienced this. I highly recommend you go to CAPS. like Please know that there's support for you. And I was like, oh my God.
00:23:44
Speaker
No, but this is a real thing. When I have started to articulate out in the world the truth of my experiences, I have found the reflection. My system is to survive has made it a lot lighter than the heaviness in which the people's faces. ah that's tough That's really hard.
00:24:04
Speaker
you know like Yeah, I'm so sorry you experienced that. That kind of thing. And I've i've had to face up to Oh shit, I have to deal with this reality of just made it lighter to me. yeah Like I have, I don't go into the heaviness or the, maybe just the reality yeah of calling it what it is like abuse, anxiety, depression, the denial was real for a long time. And then it just to conclude on that, it's like, it's helpful to start to see the realities on other people's faces and to start to maybe come to terms with the hurt.
00:24:41
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. And be honest, just break that denial that that that was, yeah, Acceptable. Deserved. Yeah. And and just just the reality, just like the baseline reality, like, yeah, that happened, you know? I remember expressing really somberly my want for myself to be stress-free and more peaceful and less in the cycles of these triggered states of dysregulation.
00:25:12
Speaker
And I expressed the kind of person who I wanted to be and the of life I wanted to have. My therapist said to me, I want that for you too. And there's something so genuine and that expression was so useful.
00:25:28
Speaker
That backup from a person who is not a family member, but just an outside person who I've talked to very deeply and openly and honestly for them to say that like felt really good yeah Yeah.
00:25:42
Speaker
I've had some... Very helpful experiences in therapy. And I've had, you've only had one therapist, right? Yeah, I got super lucky. I've had many therapists.
00:25:53
Speaker
My first therapist was much more counselor-like and i having learned more about therapy and that there were different types of therapy, I then found out, oh, what type of therapy I'm really wanting and needing is a different type of therapy. So I just let her know that that I'm going to go seek out this type of therapy for myself. And that was that.
00:26:13
Speaker
but I miss her. I loved her. She was great. and Shout out Dr. D. And then in in other experiences, i felt it was hard. It was really challenging to leave one of my therapists because i it was just it was so expensive and i i just didn't want to keep paying for it. I didn't feel like I was And progressing therapy isn't always linear. Like sometimes you'll, you know, it'll be like, oh, we didn't really get much done. And then the next session, it's like, whoa, we went deep into something that I didn't even know was there for my whole life. And now I'm aware of it, you know, so... But with that particular situation, I didn't, I just didn't feel like we were ever dropping into those levels and i wasn't being fully seen or supported.
00:27:07
Speaker
and the there's like a
Client-Therapist Dynamics
00:27:10
Speaker
trust. And also a for me, the way my work mind works, like I have to know that yeah not that you're smarter than me, but that like, that that you're smarter than me, that you're, you're really good at your job. It's so interesting. like My experience of hearing other people talk about their therapists, particularly if it doesn't seem like it's going well, I always question or wonder, is it the therapist or is it the person not knowing how to do therapy? Therapy is such a personal experience. It's what you are wanting to get out of it
00:27:39
Speaker
So if you go into therapy, usually it's for an issue or or you're wanting something for yourself. And yeah that's the distinction that will lead the therapy. The therapist is there to facilitate what you say you want and need. So I'm thinking of a particular friend, but i have heard this friend say, i don't think I'm getting anything out of this therapist.
00:28:03
Speaker
And they have wants and needs. I don't think this therapist is helping me actually is the phrasing. Break up with your therapist. Okay. Yeah. Or tell your therapist that. I've had to tell my therapist that. I've had to tell my therapist, I don't feel like I'm getting what I need. i i would like you to be asking me questions that will help me understand myself deeper.
00:28:24
Speaker
That would be helpful to me if you could prepare questions to ask me. that's super smart because I would go into a therapist's office expecting them to be a leader because I didn't understand therapy, you know? And I think for others, that might be true too, where you're like, okay, this person is, they have this license. Therapize me. Yeah, kind of Like they have this license, like they they know their job.
00:28:47
Speaker
ah My job is to come in with my issue, but your job is to like, help me with that issue. you know, you never think to like, tell the doctor how to do the surgery. No, but you have partnership with your doctor. I'm going to tell my doctor, I don't think that's the right track for me. I don't want to go on SSRIs. I want to go on benzos. You have agency in any situation you put yourself in, especially with authority figures. Well, that's why I think my emotional intelligence served me in therapy. However, if I didn't, I think I would be sitting there being like, okay, I guess this is what therapy is. And I don't really feel like I'm getting anywhere. so many dis different disorders, all the disorders, and there's a lot. And so there's a lot of different therapeutic approaches for each one of those disorders. a Mood disorders, dialectical behavior therapy. It focuses on developing emotional regulation in people who have mood disorders. It was actually developed by a woman who had a mood disorder and was institutionalized for it. She created this treatment plan
00:29:47
Speaker
and then went on to get her PhD and treat people with it and it works. You don't always know you have the disorder. So how do you go seek out a therapist for the disorder that you don't know you have? Meeting with a psychologist and and going through therapy, they will pick up on the signs and their job is to
AI in Mental Health Diagnosis
00:30:10
Speaker
diagnose. ok And so that's why a diagnosis is only as good as the clinician who gives it because if you have a broad knowledge of all the disorders, you have a broad knowledge of the entire DSM and you have experience under your belt, you can pick up on, oh, this is that.
00:30:26
Speaker
ah You know, whereas if you're fresh off the boat, you might confuse one thing with another. Yeah. There are there are certain disorders that can present very similar. And that was a part of our education was they would put up case studies and ask us, how would you diagnose this person?
00:30:43
Speaker
Sometimes the diagnoses are very, very similar to each other. And you'd have to prove or say why you would diagnose them as this as opposed to something else.
00:30:55
Speaker
h As much as it is a science, and like you were saying earlier, it's backed up by data and statistics, it still is a human being. And the brain and the mind and the emotions are on both ends, too, because a therapist is a human with a human brain and... biases and prejudices and all the things. And you do training for that. you know that's If I get my master's, that's where I'll learn how to do that kind of stuff. So what do you feel about the AI being able to at least diagnose more accurately than a human? you know In business school, they really stressed, do not put yourself in a position where your job is repeatable and predictable because eventually artificial intelligence will replace you.
00:31:43
Speaker
As humans, we are very complex. There's one part that can be predictable. You're experiencing XYZ, you have depression. But there's also...
00:31:55
Speaker
other elements of our constitution as being human, the emotional stuff, the perseverance or the the um temperament of someone being able to, the resilience, resilience. Exactly. There's like such a variety of what one person will do with a acute circumstance of trauma versus another and or to ah Two siblings raised in the same household, how they would turn out very differently. Yeah. The same abuse or similar abuse or witnessing the same thing. So in that regard, you know, it's not, they're not repeatable. They're not predictable.
00:32:31
Speaker
But in the world that we've developed to be able to help people with mental health issues, We've tried our best to make it predictable and repeatable as best we can so that we can help the most amount of people. And in that regard, I think AI would do a very good job at replacing, diagnosing.
00:32:53
Speaker
Baby's moving. We're watching the monitor. Our eyes just... Yeah, gotta go. He's rolling one way. He's rolling another way. He's moving. Do you want to wake it up share the different therapists? do Yeah, I'm going to do that.
00:33:03
Speaker
All you go. I'm just going to talk to you about just some. And I'm going to go help my baby. The basics. So. Hold Okay, so one of the most common therapies that's used, and partly because insurance companies really like this therapy because it's so predictable and it's proven and it's done in a certain amount of sessions, is cognitive behavioral therapy. Okay.
00:33:31
Speaker
The idea is that you change the way you look at things and how you frame them in your mind. And then the behavior part is what you do. So, for example, would use behavioral journaling and record how often the issue is happening what it feels and what it feels like when the feeling starts to come on, you do something else.
00:33:56
Speaker
So you go play pickleball or you meditate or you go for a run. It focuses on changing negative thoughts and negative thought patterns by changing the action or the behavior. So your therapist will train you to identify what the negative behavior is that you're doing that you want help with, and then start to track it and write down when it happens, what was happening before, what were the feelings associated. And then when you start to feel those feelings come on, you do a different behavior and you retrain your system out of the undesired outcome that you've been experiencing.
00:34:40
Speaker
but Like I said, It's really common. It's used for ADHD and it's effective, very effective.
Mental Health Growth and Reflection
00:34:47
Speaker
Then there's psychodynamic therapy. And this is kind of like the childhood therapy. This type of therapy explores unconscious conflict. So um early childhood experiences. and that uses those to understand current behaviors and emotions. I have found that type of therapy pretty helpful. it The hard part about that type of therapy is it takes a long time. it It is proven effective. But it takes a long time and it can be cost prohibited. And that's where you have transference, which is the idea of because it's going into childhood stuff, you transfer the identity of whatever parent that you maybe had more issues with or needed more attention from. or are trying to resolve um the affects of what happened to you as a childhood with, you put that image onto your therapist. So subconsciously, they become father figure or your mother figure.
00:35:46
Speaker
That relationship and that experience that happens is really healing in and of itself. We have a like humanistic therapy, which like Pacifica Institute out of Santa Barbara is very...
00:35:59
Speaker
very humanistic. This type of therapy emphasizes an individual's potential for growth and self-actualization. It deals with a lot of like what's going on now and and how do I support and guide you through that now? So in this type of therapy, you you really focused on the person and their ability to change their circumstances. its It's almost, it feels related to positive psychology to me, where you really focus on you know, the resilience, internal locus of control, and where you're going, what you're experiencing in your body, and those types of things.
00:36:34
Speaker
There's also specific therapies like rapid eye movement or exposure therapy, which can be used for OCD. You slowly expose somebody to the thing that they're fearful of. There's mindfulness-based therapy, there's family therapy, there's couples therapy, there's group therapy, there's substance abuse therapy. There are many, many, many types of therapy, but those are just a few. and yeah i was back and I was just finishing, actually just finished going through just the most basic therapies.
00:37:07
Speaker
Thanks. I'm going to have to re-listen then. You get that. Yeah. So how do we want to wrap this up, Nim? What do you feel it would be helpful for you? Helpful for me? Yeah. mean, we kind of started it always as conversations that are helpful for each other or just talking to each other about yeah what we're going through and hopefully it'll help someone else. Yeah.
00:37:28
Speaker
I mean, I think just this conversation in general has been helpful to me because Talking about my experience helps me not have it live so close and have any type of shame start to develop around it you know?
00:37:46
Speaker
So can I say one thing with what you just said? Yeah. It's interesting that you said developing shame around it because that strikes me as interesting because I...
00:37:58
Speaker
recognized in you saying that i have shame from the get-go about my hard feelings like put it simply have shame about that and that has kept me from getting help because the way I internalize my issues I just wanted to say that and I'm glad then just talking about it will be helpful I don't have shame about my anxiety.
00:38:21
Speaker
i could sense that I could potentially start to develop shame about using pharmaceutical drugs to treat my anxiety and that I want to de-stigmatize in in myself so that I can obviously not have that judgment on anybody else because don't Maybe I do, actually, if I'm being honest with myself, judge other people for using pharmaceuticals. Maybe that's just like a bias I it was unaware of that now is coming out in my experience with myself.
00:38:52
Speaker
I want to check it and i want to use any tool that I need that can help me get through um negative experiences while staying authentic to my own values and committed to my health.
00:39:12
Speaker
So we wanted to come back and have a little update. do do do to do to do That's not it, though. What is it? That sounded like Baby Shark.
Coping with Stress and Anxiety
00:39:21
Speaker
do do do dooooo do It's like...
00:39:25
Speaker
update Yeah, we both were listening and getting ready to release that episode that you all just listened to And then we looked at each other and we're like, well, do we need to do an update? How do you feel about what you shared in that recording? Because it's been how many weeks now or months?
00:39:44
Speaker
I think it's been over year. No, I'm not even kidding. No, it hasn't. It hasn't. No, just kidding. it It was like summertime. Yeah. but But then you and I both said... I think we're in the same place.
00:39:59
Speaker
Like, what's the update? Same, same, guys. Same, same. However, what I think is trippy is that i somehow... feel like I have a lot more insight and a lot more knowledge and a lot more wisdom, even though i still have intense anxiety.
00:40:20
Speaker
I still have a lot of identity crisis going on. I still have all these quote unquote pathologies and issues, but I am deeper into the understanding of them maybe. And I thought that was worth sharing. What about you? Yeah, I i see that in you. And i think there is value in sharing that. For me, I think there's less resistance towards it all.
00:40:47
Speaker
think i've I've developed more of a relationship with what is going on with and in my body and my mind. And I'm learning to go into it and with it as opposed to brace against it so hard with so much fear.
00:41:03
Speaker
Like, i I don't want it to be that experience. I'd rather just not have it be happening. But i think having it be a part of my life at this juncture, day in, day out, I'm i'm learning more of how to accept and cope in different ways that I hadn't before.
00:41:29
Speaker
And I think that's really valuable. It makes me think of something that my therapist and I went through this last week, actually. And it was a big ah breakthrough moment for me. So I'll share, which was she was talking about stress because I'd shared I've been stressed.
00:41:46
Speaker
And she was telling a story and she was saying how... this person or it was her personal example and she was like yes there was stress but I wasn't under duress because of the stress which is like a little rhyming but it it struck me I like kind of floored me because I was like oh that that's how I feel my stress puts me under duress is that the right word duress no that sounds like a weird word
00:42:19
Speaker
Are you saying, are you trying to say distress? Yes, I am. Why does duress sound, that's not right. There's something there. Nope, there's not. um But yes, distress.
00:42:32
Speaker
Yes, duress. Fuck it. But distress, excuse me. um It felt too so similar to distress. You were just trying to sound like Bridgerton fancy over there. Fuck, don't know. no No, no, no, Is duress a word? I think so. Amber Griffin. Please shout us out.
00:42:48
Speaker
Please call Under duress. I feel like that's right. Anyway. that like court case? That seems like it's said in courts. ah The victim was under duress. no no.
00:43:00
Speaker
Anyway, point was... How are we podcasters? Because people love even with our flaws. They let anybody podcasters these days. I mean, that's a fact.
00:43:12
Speaker
Facts of life. Okay. Go back. so my point was, I recognized that my stress, the fact that I was stressed or am stressed, stresses me out. And that was a breakthrough. was like, wait, that doesn't have to happen.
00:43:26
Speaker
Because she was explaining how, you know, everyone feels stress and they they go up out of their window of reflection. They go their cortisol spikes and then they come back down to regulation. That is healthy. They're eliminating that.
00:43:43
Speaker
Removing that is not what you want. You know, nobody wants that. That's what exercise is. It's healthy stress on the body. Or just something stresses you, but people come back down. They go out of fight or fight or freeze and they come back into rest and digest and then they regulate again. That is humaning and that is healthy. But what I'm doing is staying up in stress and not coming back down into regulation. And often I realized was like, well, why do I not come back down? Because the feelings, the somatic experience of it and the mindset I was was when I get stressed, it makes me brace against that.
Managing Emotional Triggers and Self-Awareness
00:44:23
Speaker
And I ah had a breakthrough because I was like, okay, so when I get stressed, I can trust myself and my body and the circumstances that I can come back down.
00:44:38
Speaker
Whatever is stressing me out is temporary. And I deserve to come back to a place where feel safe and that it's okay to relax.
00:44:50
Speaker
Almost no matter what the stressor is. And I'm privileged enough to be like, yeah, I'm not at threat of dying. one around me is at threat of dying. um Yeah, it's I'm okay.
00:45:01
Speaker
And it has been really helping me. So it's a long-winded way to say i do feel like little things like that have helped me to honestly not progress out of the symptoms of anxiety.
00:45:13
Speaker
But lessen the frequency or when they do happen to maybe lessen the intensity. So the time between of what I feel is lessening. And that's a win that is that I'm taking. That's a huge win. That's a huge win. When you're saying that for some reason, I was thinking about like, yes, we're going to get out of that window of reflection. We're going to get dysregulated at different times in our lives. And I i heard somebody say, like the biggest problem is people think they shouldn't have problems. Yeah.
00:45:41
Speaker
Just knowing that that process of like feeling dysregulated is very much part of the human experience and it's not something that we should try to avoid. That reminds me of um this program I just ended and the last class was on joy.
00:46:03
Speaker
One of the elders was speaking on it and she said, joy does not remove stress. Joy does not remove depression. Joy does not remove grief, does not remove pain. She went on this whole list and she's like, it goes right alongside it.
00:46:21
Speaker
And there were ah many women on this call and they were talking about how, which I view as resilience, but they're talking about how they don't, like their joy is not a compromise. It's not something on the table.
00:46:33
Speaker
Their joy is they don't let anything steal their joy. One of the women's is going through a lot and she expressed how she was like, I have to laugh. Yeah. I have to feel joy because because what's the alternative? Yeah. And I i think there's there like I went to this laugh bath.
00:46:51
Speaker
They had you bring up memories and and laugh essentially for an hour straight. Try different types of laugh. Bring up memories from childhood for laughter. Bring up movies that made you laugh. Do practices where you stand with a partner and You mimic their actions as they make themselves laugh and like just an hour of laughter. and it was I felt high afterwards. And I really resonated with how much laughter it really is medicine because the body, the physiology of the body cannot experience anything.
00:47:24
Speaker
fear, anger, stress when it's laughing. That's so fascinating because in nature, laughter is a stress response. Meaning when I took the comedy classes, they talk about how chimpanzees and actually other mammals will do a version of what we witness as laughter. And it's to relieve the stress. And you learn about it in comedy because it's... um it comes from so surprise.
00:47:51
Speaker
So comedy a lot of times is written one, two is like, oh, you're expecting one, you're expecting two. And then the third line or the third, whatever is an unexpected. And that surprise is what makes us laugh. It's unexpected. timing It's the timing, but it's also the content being something unexpected. And that is in the tension that's building is stress. You know, even though we don't expect it's like, oh, we're lowering ourselves into like, oh, okay. Like it's building. It's like, when it's going to come? When is it going to come? And then the laughter goes, ah but it was stress was being built before that. And then it's a stress reliever. So I think that's interesting what you're saying. Yeah. I do think that I have been from that class and this was just last week, but recognizing that I've been laughing at myself more.
00:48:35
Speaker
And usually the response is anger and frustration. And instead, when these stacking triggers, because that's the other thing I've learned, is like, it's not just one thing that happens that sets me off. It's been multiple little things. And so I'm recognizing... It's never one thing. No. And I didn't know that term, though.
00:48:57
Speaker
Like, I didn't know that stacking triggers. I didn't learn that. i was like that's what's happening to me. That's what's happening to me all the time. Oh my gosh, that's so helpful. And now when I have an early frustration, an early small thing because of that knowledge, I'm like, okay, laugh it off. Oh shit. Yeah, I'm frustrated by this shit and the light switch. I couldn't reach it and it's hard. Like I'm starting to recognize my somatic experience in the small things, but so that they don't stack.
00:49:23
Speaker
The other thing that that reminds me of is like Kiana and I are taking a class right now on reflective parenting and that narrating the experience for myself and for Solomon has been really helpful to me too, to...
00:49:39
Speaker
acknowledge what I'm actually feeling in the time. like it It helps break the pattern of those those stacking triggers because I would just internalize, Solomon, you're crying and that's making me stress because I feel like you're not okay and I want you to be okay. And I also have to get to work and I don't have time to spend time with you. And I don't want... You know what i mean? like Just even...
00:50:03
Speaker
expressing what's actually happening has been a big game changer too. Like to let my mind know and my inner dialogue know what I'm experiencing and that I'm acknowledging what I'm experiencing.
Exploring Psilocybin and Medication
00:50:15
Speaker
Because a lot of it, I would just like stuff away and be like, I don't want to be feeling this. I shouldn't be feeling this. Like just make it go away. I want to, I just want to be happy and be better. the self-negating and that's like the resistance that I'm talking about is starting to like dissipate more and more which feels good. I'm so glad. Medication-wise though we had that conversation about medication and still in the same place. I'm still waiting on a fucking psych like psych evaluation for five freaking weeks through my insurance more six weeks. My therapist is like this is not normal I'm so sorry it might be because of the strike or I don't know and I'm kind of like trusting divine timing on it being like well, I guess I'm just gonna self-medicate with Moosh's Valium for now and like keep it going here. i like how our sister Chloe Marco pulled you and was like... Hold on. I Marco pulled Chloe and told her that that's what was happening. And she Marco pulled me back and was like, wait a minute.
00:51:16
Speaker
Um... Did you just say you're taking your dog's medication? like is this Should I be very concerned for you? Is this a white flag? Do I need to come down there? Like, what is going on? No, Chloe. You know, you're get you're helping yourself.
00:51:34
Speaker
You're trying, you know. I, interestingly, since that recording, I remember specifically getting more open to the potential of like...
00:51:46
Speaker
Okay, I'm going i have to go on medication. Like that's just, that just seems like the next logical step for me. ah Pharmaceuticals. A little bit after that, i started this Mothers in the Mycelium program, which was for microdosing psilocybin and specifically works with mothers, new moms, but moms.
00:52:06
Speaker
And it was 10 weeks and it just ended and it was incredible. I am still debating though, even with that that type of medication and support, if I need to also go on SSRIs. And that's been a continued, actually honestly difficult debate because from the people I talked to who are are are on SSRIs, and they all have such good things to say.
00:52:34
Speaker
I know that my experience is my own and everybody is different. While a lot of the judgment I've let go, i have way less resistance to it than I ever have in my whole life.
00:52:45
Speaker
There feels like there's still a little bit more of my path I walk on with and what I deem as these natural medications. and That's where I'm at. I hear that.
00:52:57
Speaker
I wonder that that's where you're at. For myself, I i toggle. Do I do it or do you do it? Because now toggle, toggle. It's so dumb. Yes, she did it. I want to do it. so It sounds so lame when I do it and also when you do it, but toggle, toggle.
00:53:14
Speaker
good Try again. I talk toggle. Toggle, toggle. keep going. It's fine. dog Toggle, toggle. It's better. It's better when I do it. Yeah, it's dumb. It's better when I do it too. I toggle between...
00:53:26
Speaker
Moosh's Valium and microdosing mushrooms to get myself through the days lately. I have resolved myself to know that this is a temporary situational anxiety and transitional time that I'm in in my life. And The thing that helped me see the distinction of what's happening and what's within my control are the physical symptoms of the anxiety. And so I'm like, oh.
00:54:00
Speaker
I can still do my meditations. I can still do my healthy practices to take care of myself. But my body is having these super strong reactions and i have to treat the symptoms so that I can get back to regulation to be able to make decisions from a place that I feel myself in.
00:54:24
Speaker
You know, was there before with the Ativan that was prescribed to me, but that was like short lived and didn't help as much as I would have hoped, but did do what it needed to do its time. With therapy, realized, like, just get the symptoms and the anxiety, get the symptoms and the anxiety.
Holistic Mental Health Approaches
00:54:40
Speaker
down so then I can have the wherewithal and the energy and the time and space within myself to go deeper into the root causes of them and relate to them and heal and be aware. And something recently that just came up, did a health consultation with the owner of the new wellness company that I'm working for. Because Issa got a job. Finally got a job, you guys.
00:55:05
Speaker
if That was a different podcast talking episode we were talking about. but Yeah, finally, I'm employed at this wellness center and the owner does these health consults and I wanted to experience what that was like so that I could potentially facilitate that for new members.
00:55:19
Speaker
Talking to her about my symptoms and what's going on with me, both physically, mentally and and emotionally, there was a component that stood out to me. And she said, how about with food? and i said, I'm craving sugar, like so much sugar. And she was like, oh, you got something going on with your gut.
00:55:35
Speaker
Like, let's get that handled because that is going to cause a lot, not that your anxiety isn't real, but your body is signaling from your gut, you may be suffering more than you need to be.
00:55:47
Speaker
I had a mom tell me the exact same thing. And so I'm going off sugar for three weeks. Pray for me. Starting when? Today. oh God. have to live with this creature that's about to emerge. Just kidding. i support that.
00:56:03
Speaker
Because I want to feel better. i really want to feel better. And I want to do everything I can. So that's like a different angle. You know, there's there's like the pharmaceutical angle of like, okay, yeah, you have your heart is racing. Your thoughts are...
00:56:15
Speaker
ruminating and worry and you're starting to affect your sleep and your eating habits and like they're yes these are all very real symptoms and you can't focus and concentrate and get tasks done and there is real shit happening here that you have to keep living and so like the medication has been helping for just getting through but then the levels of the physical nutrition element too and like my gut biome and what's going on on my internal level to be able to help myself from the inside out.
00:56:46
Speaker
Yeah, that's ah all of it is holistic, including medications. And this mom that mentioned the gut health also was talking about how the brain is an organ.
00:56:57
Speaker
And we act like if you had a heart failure, you you'd take medications. You're having a brain situation. Take medication for it. Like, it's there's no different. It's an organ. And I like that framing, too. will say my biggest recognition, like you were just sharing about what you've come to terms with in therapy, a huge aha or wake up call, really.
00:57:20
Speaker
of what the symptoms of general anxiety disorder are. After a therapy session, I went into ChatGBT and I had it teach me, which is an awesome hack I learned from that summit we took, the AI summit, and explained to me as if I was 14 years old.
00:57:37
Speaker
I was reading these symptoms and... just I just was floored by the accuracy of my experience.
00:57:49
Speaker
And I had never done that. um I'd never educated myself, I realized. I didn't realize it until then. i kind of had talked about having anxiety, but it was through hearing other people talk about their anxiety and having some reflection of from a therapist. But I actually had never done the education where I read anxiety.
00:58:08
Speaker
about what, you know, a mass amount of people say their experiences are. so i'm What you did in school, you know, what you're able to like read and understand. And I i wept.
00:58:19
Speaker
I mean, I just cried for myself. Then I think that began the work. Now I have, I'm equipped with the correct definitions of what is going on with me and recognizing that there is treatment for this and I get to go treat these things because this is before was just what I was calling life and what I was calling my experience
Childhood Experiences and Adult Health
00:58:40
Speaker
of life. And that's what really made the red light go on for me and be like,
00:58:44
Speaker
okay, no, there's a different type of life that I want to live. And these are the things that are impeding that. And I get to treat myself kindly and treat myself the symptoms. That is general health. And I think you you bringing that up reminds me that like adverse childhood experiences. i don't know if you've ever taken that test, but there's a test you can take on adverse childhood experiences. And based on your score, there's a direct correlation to your
00:59:17
Speaker
health It's not only the rates at which you will be exposed to and most likely experience anxiety, depression, but it's also like heart disease, diabetes. It's a lot of real health markers that are causational to your adverse childhood experiences. So if you've had...
00:59:38
Speaker
Adverse childhood experiences, which include, you know, things like abuse or neglect or a parent using drugs or a parent being incarcerated or there's, you know, a list of them. That is a real thing that has real effect on your health as an adult. And it sucks that you it takes...
00:59:58
Speaker
your agency as the adult version of you to go and treat those things. And and you you are at a higher risk for all of that, but you deserve to have it be treated. You know, you deserve to have that be part of your health and holistic approach to to living life because it just is what it is, you know? And it's like, like you said,
01:00:19
Speaker
This is a reality that I thought was just life,
Facing Personal Shame and Growth
01:00:22
Speaker
but it's not. it's just a symptom or disorder. I want to go on record to say that when i did that deep research, came back to my therapist, started to examine when i fill out the forms of like, how how much worry did you have this week? How much had the disconnect between what I was experiencing what I and what i was labeling. i was comparing it to like the worst I've ever had. So like, I am better. No, I've been minimizing. And that was a wake up. And then just to be, to share honestly with you and my community, like I have gotten worse.
01:01:00
Speaker
I have gotten my therapist explained it as like, well, now that you know what it is that you're dealing with and experiencing it, you no longer can have ignorance around it and you no longer can shove it in the corner. You actually are going to have to deal with it. Your body's now acknowledging. And i'm the kicker was now that I am doing treatment and I'm getting moments of rest and digest, I'm getting moments of actual relaxation and not just constantly in high stress,
01:01:29
Speaker
my body is like, okay, now we can actually deal with ah the anxiety symptoms of your body that you've just been shoveling in the corner. So now here's a panic attack.
01:01:41
Speaker
I'm like, what? She was like, yeah, because you've just been shoving them down. And she had the example, and i think this is really helpful for anybody, you know, is going through something similar. She was like, well, when you're running from a tiger...
01:01:58
Speaker
You don't have time to have a panic attack. Your body's not going to let it happen. So when you get to a safe place in the bushes or on the rock, then your body's going to be like, okay now it's safe to have these symptoms, theses these reactions. And ah and so she was like, it's actually progress. And I was like, cool, cool, cool, cool. cool cool got Breathlessness. Can you tell how long this is going to happen? Yeah, that was my question. But I'm managing those symptoms with breathwork sessions and doing my best to simplify my life. I have to underschedule myself now. And I'm just getting to that place where that's happening. And last couple of days actually have been underscheduled and... do less. Yeah.
01:02:41
Speaker
Yeah, honestly, it's about as much as I can handle. i will just vulnerably say if feel all brings up a lot of shame, a lot of embarrassment. I'm extremely embarrassed that i have so little capacity for things that I label as basic.
01:02:59
Speaker
And i have a deep amount of shame for not being able to operate at a certain capacity that I thought I could. and I'm having to look at myself so differently now, looking at the way I've reacted to things because of anxiety and didn't even know it. So I'm having to do a lot of kind of self-inventory and looking back and dealing with the feelings of like, oh my God, I didn't even realize I was being verbally abusive to this person because I was just so ramped up or I didn't even realize I was, you know, just acting these ways and it wasn't me. I mean, it is me. And so I'm having to take responsibility of that, but, um, I'm the problem.
01:03:41
Speaker
okay It's me. I'm the problem. It's me. I encourage you to give yourself grace and be gentle and do nice things for yourself. i I have a person that I call when things are hard and she's such a good advocate to remind me like what you're doing is a lot.
01:04:00
Speaker
Make sure you do something nice for yourself. Yeah. Yeah. It's tough in there with the time of being a parent, a new parent, young to a young kid. So that's a work in progress, too. But kind of ah bogarted that part. Does anything that I just shared kind of.
01:04:19
Speaker
Is there a mirrored experience that you're having in your version of what you're going through since we last recorded?
01:04:26
Speaker
I think what I heard you say is that your denial has been broken within your own self and the realities of what has been happening and what system has been running and how you've been experiencing your life has now changed.
01:04:46
Speaker
And there's a sense of honesty in that and and expressing the shame and the the realities of where you're sitting right now and that it didn't get easier, it got harder. i resonate with the honesty of that.
01:05:00
Speaker
Right now, more than ever, i'm letting it all just be true and honest that like this is where I'm at. And...
01:05:11
Speaker
I've said for a long time, like, oh, I don't know why. i don't know why I'm experiencing all this. I don't know why. that is starting to break down of being like, no, I do know why. This is hard.
01:05:23
Speaker
This is transitional. It's challenging to live with a family member, with a toddler, to not have time alone or be alone ever. It's hard to go from three years of not working to working two jobs. It's hard to...
01:05:41
Speaker
try and date and it's hard to manage all that with high symptoms of anxiety and to you know just be honest about it I look to you and I see how honest you're being about your experience and how much internal work you're doing while maintaining parenthood and life and classes and growth and therapy and walks and care and being a big sister and being a wife and it makes it easier for me to be honest about what I'm doing and not minimize that while it's it's not the same stress it's not the same that it's still like
01:06:25
Speaker
a valid life experience and stress and challenge. And I know it's temporary and I know we're not alone in it. So that makes me feel better.
01:06:36
Speaker
We all belong. Yeah, we all
Encouragement and Community Engagement
01:06:39
Speaker
belong. We all belong. Even in our freaked out states. i like how you said that. Freaked out. I'm all freaked out, man.
01:06:48
Speaker
in our family says that that we just knew exactly we were saying okay I love you and thank you for sharing and saying thank you for doing this update with me yeah absolutely and thank you all for listening we'll see you or we'll you'll hear us next hear next time and if you want to gain any more information about therapy or just want to have conversations about anything going on in your world, please reach out to us. We are open. We always want to build community around these conversations that are real and not just surface level, but what's what's really helping each and every one of us and what's hard for each and every one of us because that's how we connect is to be in it together.
01:07:33
Speaker
And um you can always find us on our Patreon. No. Ah, yes. Which is a good way to connect with us there as well. Okay. Thanks, Cheech. Thank you. Love you. Love you too.
01:07:45
Speaker
Okay. i I think we did it. Listen, I don't know what we did, but we did it. Thanks for listening to another episode of The Ripple Affect. We're looking forward to exploring a different facet of change with you next time.
01:08:00
Speaker
If you found value in this episode, please take a second to leave us a review and share with a friend. Every little bit helps The Ripple go farther. Thanks for being a part of this experiment with us.
01:08:11
Speaker
And remember... We're way more connected and deserving than society's false sense of separation dictates us to be. You're not just one person. Your singular efforts do make the collective change possible.
01:08:22
Speaker
We're going to keep showing up and we'll never get to perfection. But if we allow the process to be the solution, we can trust that small ripples will make big waves. Changing yourself changes the ripple.
01:08:34
Speaker
And what if a collective almost is good enough?
01:08:40
Speaker
This episode was produced and brought to you by Michelle Asaro, Issa Griffin, and Kiana Maya. It was also edited by Jess Najunas and Kiana Maya.