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Part II : Being More, Doing Less - Navigating Wellness and Being | A Kitchen Table Talk
70 Plays3 months ago
Gather around the kitchen table for a lively and enriching episode of The Ripple Affect, a continuation of the conversation from the previous episode #18, where laughter meets deep philosophical discussion. This episode features a blend of light-hearted banter and serious exploration into the essence of being, the pursuit of wellness, and the navigation of life’s intricate balances. Our hosts, Chiara "Cheech" and Isa "Nibby" delve into personal experiences and spiritual practices that help maintain equilibrium in a chaotic world, offering listeners a unique blend of practical tips and soulful insights.
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Transcript
Introduction to The Ripple Effect Podcast
00:00:04
Speaker
You're listening to The Ripple Effect with your hosts Cheech and Nippy, a podcast that explores how individual change has the capacity to affect the whole. From neuroscience to donuts, we're two sisters with a deep curiosity for ancient wisdom and modern knowledge, and we're obsessed with learning alongside you because we don't know. Let's dive in.
Kitchen Table Talk: Life Balance and Spiritual Richness
00:00:28
Speaker
Hi everyone, Isa here. Today's episode is part two of last week's Kitchen Table Talk titled, Being More, Doing Less, Balancing Life's Dualities. It was an unscripted conversation between Kyara and I where we explored harmonizing a life with a goal-driven exterior and a spiritually enriched interior. It is so good. I encourage you to check it out before listening to this episode. Personally, I listened to it on 1.2 and found it very enjoyable. That's 1.2 speed. Today, we continue that conversation with a candid, lighthearted, yet philosophical second half. This episode promises to blend laughter with profound insight.
00:01:16
Speaker
You're about to drop right into the conversation with us on life balance, the wellness industry, spiritual guidance, along with a few personal anecdotes and experiences from your host, us, Cheech and Nippy. Enjoy.
Balancing Love, Play, and Work Daily
00:01:31
Speaker
Okay, we're back. We regrouped. We are back. It's my turn to ask you some things. But first I have a question for you. What? I just said it's my turn to ask you things. Can you please refer to me as Eagle Sun for the rest of this episode? No, actually. I won't be doing that. Then I won't be answering your question. That's the most ridiculous request. You and my husband are so similar. You watch a movie and then it's like all of a sudden you just need to be in the movie somehow in real life. It's just your face right now. Okay. No. The answer is no. We watch Planet of the Apes in case anybody's wondering what movie I was referencing. Kingdom of the Planet of the Apes. Yes, thank you.
00:02:15
Speaker
It was good. Anyways. Yeah. So, Eagle son. Tall. I guess it would be Eagle daughter. Jesus Christ. Okay. So we kind of ended that ah last bit of our conversation and I was really curious to get into some things that you had mentioned, like the wellness industry. I really do want to get to this piece of balance that you mentioned. and how you've found it or are finding it and the practices that allow you to experience balance in your life and weaving it back to what we've been talking about, which is beingness. What your experiences are of looking for balance in the real world of this tangible goals or
00:03:09
Speaker
relationships or careers or any of the things and the interaction of the balance of beingness and what you use to access beingness in your life. Yeah, the first thing just on the topic of balance, I know the other day you helped me a lot. I'd had the intention for myself. I knew that I wanted to balance and it was in three areas. It was love, play, and work, I believe. And I was having a hard time. I think I was doing financial something or other and you helped talk me through it. And then I realized like, okay, this is what's important to me. I want to prioritize these things for myself today. This is what balance looks like for me today. I know I need to touch on these three things.
00:04:00
Speaker
I went ahead and just looked at those three things and I asked myself, what can I do to touch on these three areas of my life and make sure I spend at least some time doing them today. And that day for myself, um playing with Mooj and walking him satisfied that love and that play element. Who mooshes her dog if you've never heard the podcast before just so you don't think it's her man or my imaginary friend.
00:04:33
Speaker
I'm just out in the street playing with my imaginary friend. Sit. Imaginary dog friend. Oh, God. Anyways. Sorry. And then work. I think I it was just doing some homework. But so I think it can be a little bit of a trap for me to think I have to have everything in balance. that I need to work out every day and then do this and then have work time and have you know play time and have it just for me balance works best when it's on a day-to-day spectrum or on a dayto- day-to-day check-in. Like a metric that's kind of more current.
00:05:15
Speaker
yeah rather than overarching leave these kind of dominant, more strict parameters. Yeah, it reminds me of effort in a relationship, right? I think that it should always be 50-50, which I didn't always think in the past, but now I do. But at the same time, I think that there are seasons, like you talked to me about seasons where one person is putting in more effort than the other because they need to give added support and sometimes they need to get added support. I think for myself in that same vein, sometimes I need certain things to look like balance and sometimes I need other things to look like balance and it's not always the same fluid day in and day out. It's very fluid. So on that subject, I think I want more of that for myself and it starts with becoming aware of what I need for that day and really paying attention to what is it that I need to feel myself
00:06:07
Speaker
to feel safe, to feel good, to feel inspired?
Trusting Inner Guidance and Intuition
00:06:10
Speaker
What can I give myself? And what helps you get to those awarenesses? Because we're talking about needs that are tangible needs. what helps you get in touch with the inner part of you that has the truth about those needs, the truth rather than the, you know, maybe about traumatized survival, I need to just get this done. or That's my version. Like I've noticed, I will say, it I need to just get this done and then I'll feel good because then if I could just get this done and you can hear me speed up the neuroticism at all, the the survival, trying to feel like I'm enough versus make the space for that truth. So what's helped do you do that?
00:06:51
Speaker
And that it makes me think of what you're talking about, the unseen, and and my access point to all of that, to what I would call the other side or the spirit realm, the backing of this whole life fabric. I love that you say that backing. of the I love that. So for me, tuning into that can help me a lot. asking my guides, OK, what do I need? And sometimes it's just asking, you know, before that, asking myself, do I know what I need right now? And if I don't, sometimes I ask for help with what do I need to feel?
00:07:27
Speaker
safe right now? Or what do I need to feel more myself right now? Or what do I need to feel better right now? you know like What can I do for myself? And I'll ask my guides. And that process for me looks like just asking my inner self. And there's a point in in which I can relax my outer self enough to have guidance come through. and Did you learn that somewhere? No, I can't say that I've learned that process. I think that it's just something that I stumbled on and now I utilize. Really? Do you have a sense of when you stumbled on it? Well, mom, our mom, she's always said, oh, my angel said to do it. That's right. Or like she's had these crazy stories. She really said it like that. That makes herself possessed. My angel said to do it. I think she said, well, here's an example. So she was upstairs in the third story of our house and she said she kept hearing her angels say, go downstairs, go to the kitchen, go downstairs, go to the kitchen. And she knew I was at school and I didn't need to be
00:08:35
Speaker
picked up for another 35-40 minutes. And so she's like, no, I don't need to go down there until I go to pick up Issa. I'm doing what I'm doing up here. She kept hearing it over and and then finally she's like, okay, fine. And she went downstairs and she was standing in the kitchen and she thought, what the fuck am I doing down there? here and the toaster sparked and it caught fire the rag that was right next to it and she was like holy shit and she put it out but then she was like oh they thank you angels for telling me to come down here you know things like that or she would take a corner super tight for no good reason and a truck would be coming across her lane she's always had an innate ability to trust an internal guidance system
00:09:16
Speaker
Well, trust and hear it. So I want to go to that from her. So you saw that model. I saw i heard it. model Yeah. And then you said the process of relaxing. But is how do you hear? Because I think this is something really important if people hey it can count sound super out there, which I think we both acknowledge. And yes. And then trying to balance trying to balance the reality of like, I acknowledge it sounds super out there and I experience so totally. And that's why I can't say I've ever talked about I don't even think I've said out loud the other side or the spirit realm or my experiences with that. I don't really share openly because i I understand. I sound crazy when I say, yeah, that. Well, because again, and that's why I call it the unseen because we live in a world of measurement that I respect. and We both respect yeah science and measurement and dope. Yeah. With literal and that's the quantum with unseen.
00:10:15
Speaker
Things are happening. Difficult to measure. Then we can't explain and yeah, empirically prove or disprove. And things are a little wonky, like spooky action at a distance. It's literally a quantum physics, you know, terminology. That's so cool, I didn't know that. It is the cruelest shit. We'll get into it at the time because I actually can't define it just off the top of my head. I have to YouTube it. But please do because that's a thing and that's what they call it. So, but okay, so I would love to hear and for you to share just And it's intimate about your process, but what does it feel like? How do you experience it? Yeah. So I wouldn't even call it a process because like I've seen you drop into the kasha where you sit down and you breathe and you, you know, actually physically put yourself in a state, mentally put yourself in a state and drop in. if You know, I witnessed that. I don't do that. I i john here waiting this all willy nily out there i just just breathe and I open my mind and my heart
00:11:18
Speaker
to I ask them to be receptive. Your mind and your heart to be receptive. I ask my mind and my heart to be receptive to clear, strong guidance. And I breathe and I i try and open space in my mind and my heart for that guidance to come through. And what is the distinction that you make from it being just yeah an inner access to your subconscious or just inner knowing or levels of your own consciousness and this other side. Yeah, that's a really good question because honestly it's very similar to self-dialogue. So the way it comes in is it's
00:12:04
Speaker
It sounds so similar to my own self-dialogue a lot of times that it can be even tricky to make that distinction of what is my own mind and what is this other thing. And it's gotten clearer and more familiar. There's a quality to it that is distinct to where I know, oh, this isn't just my mind. and the directionality of it is specific. Go into both of those. what is the What's the quality? Can you just describe quality? The quality feels always more clear. It's always very clear and direct. And I think it's because I ask for it that way. Like confident? When you say clear, it's it's... Yeah, it's like command almost, but not in a... it's like Dominating way. Not in a dominating way at all. but And it oh it doesn't always make sense too. where like I always make sense to myself.
00:12:55
Speaker
and Right, that's such a good point though because we're so familiar with our thought patterns. Yeah, I make sense to myself whereas this doesn't always make sense to me and sometimes it leads me down these weird I can see in your eyes that you're actually thinking of a very specific... Yeah, but I want to share it. I will share it. But um so it's it's clear and it'll be like, do this, say this, exact drink this. Precise. Yeah, make that go outside, sit down. And I think it's again, because I ask for it that way. And then it always feels like it comes in from the side, which is different than how where my thinking usually feels like it's
00:13:31
Speaker
operating. When I've done meditations before where I try and locate my conscious awareness, where it is at in my head and face, um a lot of times it literally will be in the front, which is kind of obvious like my frontal cortex, but it'll be in the front and sometimes on the left, sometimes on the right. And I'll utilize that when I'm doing centering meditations where you you imagine a golden ball in the center of your head and then you pull all your conscious awareness thinking into that ball to help center your mind. Most of the time when I do that, my thinking self, the eye that I relate to in my brain,
00:14:10
Speaker
is usually in the front and this information, it comes in from the side. So it definitely is distinct in that way as well. And sometimes I'm not paying enough attention to even Like, I know I haven't made these distinctions for myself by myself. I've never thought to myself, oh, that information comes in from the side. Oh yeah, no, that's why I wanted to follow up and ask because we don't think about it when we are tuned in, but I think it's valuable for someone trying to learn because I do have a lot of clients coming in. How do I trust my intuition? How do I trust that this is guidance from my guides, my angels, or whatever have their definition of the unseen and helpful consciousness forces are? How does it look? what how do How do I know? and that's a really
00:14:54
Speaker
Legit question. Yeah, and the I think the more I do it and the more experiences I have with it, the easier it becomes to discern what it is. But I don't always have access to it either. It's not like this superpower that's always online. Sometimes I'm like, try and get it and it's not there. And I'm like, oh, maybe I need to eat less sugar or something. I don't know. Well, and that that's my experience, too. And that's where I have a process that just helps me kind of have a lot ah more confidence, I think, in the the ability to access. yeah right Yeah. And so you were saying, though, that you, with experiences and practice, yeah but those experiences have to be validated in some form, right? if If the voice always said, go make some eggs, and then you just got high cholesterol, and you're like, what the fuck? I'm crazy. But it sounds like there's been guidance.
00:15:44
Speaker
from and it's not yeah so The what the but example I was thinking of earlier that was making me laugh that you said you could see in my eyes is it's not always super profound shit. you know It's not. A lot of times it's like really random. For example, I'm getting ready to go to dance rehearsal and I'm packing a bag and I'm like, okay, I need this, I grab that. And my my guides are like, grab deodorant. And I'm like, I don't den need deodorant. I don't put deodorant on. And I keep going around my thing, grab deodorant. And I'm like, I said, I don't need deodorant. I put deodorant on. OK? Don't you hear me? And then again, and I'm like, oh, fine. I grab deodorant. I throw it in my bag.
00:16:24
Speaker
I go out the door, i go to I go to rehearsal, and I'm at rehearsal, and towards the end of re rehearsal, Riley goes, does anybody have deodorant? I'm going to this date later and I don't have any deodorant. And I'm like, oh, I have deodorant for you, Riley. was like, that's so funny. I was wondering why my guys were telling me to keep grabbing deodorant. and so to me, experiences like that, then they happen over and over. You just learn to trust that. Yeah. And sometimes it's it's minor and sometimes it's bigger things like take a different route. Don't go to that person's house or like or move to Hawaii or move to Hawaii. Yeah, go, go do that thing. You know, it feels like there is this larger conscious awareness that workspace consciousness where yeah there is
00:17:14
Speaker
all of the possibilities of what could be.
Intentional Living and Internal Values
00:17:18
Speaker
And there's kind of a top eye on things, you know, and to me, I trust that there is some, some system at play that does have an ability to help guide me based on what I've made myself clear on of what my intentions are and what my I guess just living in step with that. I have a really strong intention to be in step and in stride with the prayers that I've laid down for myself. And so I want to be able to keep tuning in and trusting that I'm on that and listening and making sure that I stay in that zone. so
00:17:58
Speaker
I think you're saying something so important. There's this intentionality, specificity, and conviction of clarity of what it is that you want for yourself that allows the guidance to support that. That's a really important step. If you're not clear, or I'll say it this way, when I wasn't clear, the clarity of the help coming in meets me where I'm at and helps me just like kind of feel a little better because I'm just in chaos. But if I can help myself get more clear and have some, not about goals, but it's about value of what's important to me.
00:18:41
Speaker
where I'm trying to get to. Internally. Internally. Not externally. No, internally. And that seems to be where guidance can meet you. Do you agree with that? Do you have more to say about that? Yeah, I do agree. I think that is an important part and I think that that is also really fluid. It obviously changes and sometimes you really do just need comfort or you really do just need to do the next best thing for yourself and have guidance on what that is. Sometimes I have a bigger burst of clarity of like, no, I want healthy relationships. I really want to to see modeled what that is. I want inner serenity for myself. I want these bigger, what's really important to me in my heart because I have external goals. I have the career stuff. I have those things, but like, let me come back to what's really in my heart. What do I really want? I want to feel calm.
00:19:38
Speaker
I want to feel safe. I want to feel like everything's taken care of and I can play. you know I want to feel at peace, at rest and in enjoyment. I want there to be love and enjoyment in all the actions and things that I do and come to come to this life and all these different things in a way that's most authentic to who I really am. And that's what I pray to. And that's what I ask my guides to help me do as well as the just small things like getting dressed, you know, like logistics. Yeah. So but the the distinction that I make for myself with that is like. Those are like the truths of what are in my heart of what I really want for myself on an internal level and.
00:20:28
Speaker
Hopefully that can be reflected out in the external, but I'm not asking for guidance on how to get a new car. Not that that's like bad or wrong because I don't think it is at all. That intentionality of just getting really clear with what is really true for you. And I think that that links to beingness, right? Cause it is how, the difference between doing and being is the actionality of it. I know that that's not a word, but it's the, the being seems to be more centered in, I want to do these things, but how do I want to do them?
00:21:05
Speaker
ah yeah how How am I, as a person, and going to feel and be and speak and move and live through the experience of the doing? Yeah, yeah I think you nailed it on the head because that is beingness, that is awareness, that is the constant, that is me. And that's what you have control over, a kind of. you know i mean that Not control, but that's what you can affect. Yes. That is what you can affect. Yes. Because so many things. It is your hula hoop. That is what is in your hula hoop. Yes. Yes. That is literally all that you have. I know. That's how I feel. As I wanted to say, I'm like, that does feel like all. It does. It does feel like an all of everything that, and that's why it's helpful. And that's when I think of beingness. I think literally of that, like how do I want to be in chaos?
00:21:59
Speaker
how do I want to be in stressful situations? Or how do I want to be when I'm up leveling into the new experience that I want, like the career change, like the new relationship, but that I've learned that it's going to be chaotic for my system to adapt to because it's changing, it's different, it's new, and my neurons and my emotions and my patterns are all going to take on the newness, the novelty, and do some weird shit with it sometimes. Yeah. and And not only in that good of upleveling, how do I want to be when I feel really bad about myself and I really am low?
00:22:38
Speaker
how do I wanna be? And yes, there are states of being. You can feel joy, you can feel sorrow, you can feel grief. There are states of being that really do encompass how you are in that moment, but there's also how you relate to yourself during those times. And there's an element of beingness to that as well. And I think that's the bigger being, the capital I am or whatever, because I think there's a bigger, maybe not bigger, it might not be the right word, but I think there's a larger being. Dable. I don't know German, you do. I'm pretty sure it's bigger. Maybe it's ever-present, maybe not. There's an awareness. Ever-existing. Yeah, there's an awareness that I think is beingness as well. When I ask myself the question, am I aware? Did we talk about this earlier? Yes, we did. Yeah. When I talk about that, I think that is
00:23:38
Speaker
Beingness as well the big beingness and then there's the states of being that are kind of nestled in that And so finding distinction in those can be really helpful and knowing I want to treat myself kind and with love and understanding when shit goes hard and when things are going good both you're really nailing some things that I learned out of the East that I think are really valuable and it's just that that states of being are temporary. That's a core understanding that I took away. This big B being or the big S self is sometimes how it's referred to, is this ever existing principle.
00:24:19
Speaker
that there is somehow an untouchableness to it, meaning it is a broader, older, bigger sense rather than our confineness of being in a body, of being with one consciousness point. There's this um expansion that is referred to that is also happening at the same time. And so in those temporal states, like feelings, as memories, associations, all these things, that there is a, like you said earlier, a backdrop There's a, how did you put it? backing A backing to the fabric. And if you can, or rather when I can remember that even, or try to even reach for it.
Emotional Self-Awareness and Growth
00:25:02
Speaker
It can give enough of a buffer, a step off of the states of being that can be very intense, that are real. And I think this is where, you know, we talked about it before too, like detachment completely versus non-attachment. Well, disassociation. Disassociation, specifically, versus detachment. And I'm going through something intense. And I do get to feel that I feel very bad, that I feel very disappointed. All these feelings, because they're they're what I'm experiencing. And at the same time, be able to back up off of that and know a part of me is okay. And that's what we were talking about earlier when we're puking or we have like this intense physical. It's like your conscious, your conscious aware is on. You know, your conscious awareness is on. You're aware that you're experiencing those things.
00:25:47
Speaker
you can have that buffer. That's what it feels like. It feels like a little bit of a buffer space to go like, all you need I'm experiencing this and I know, but I know it's temporary and I know I can get through it. And if I don't know that, if I don't feel like it's going to be okay to comfort myself. And then like it's okay that you feel that way. That makes sense rather than panic. you know Yeah. and get into that darker hole, which I've been. And it's scary to feel alone like you were saying earlier. Yeah, I think with being this for myself, really it's kind of funny to define how I want to be and then also want to just be the most authentic version of myself. But then knowing sometimes the most authentic version of myself in the moment is the dysfunctional use of it.
00:26:31
Speaker
isn't what I want to be, you know? So it's kind of, that's a tricky one for me. I think that's so important because there becomes this whitewashing, like a ah glossing over in the way in which it can be spoken about in the wellness industry or in these kind of new age spiritual TikTok, Instagram, you know, meme situations. There's this attainability of perfection. that looks like your most authentic self. Your most authentic self never yells, never does this, never does that. And in the more, like less fashionable, more real information coming out of either ancient wisdom or modern knowledge, there's this like, no, there's there's messiness to it. There's a lot of versions of you that are going to show up.
00:27:19
Speaker
When we think about raising kids, learning how to regulate themselves, there's a lot of versions that are gonna show up. Can we sit with them? Can we sit with ourselves? Can we be okay that that is the moment that we're having the acceptance? Accepting and also like and also gratitude is what I found in my most recent episode of Crying in a Bathroom. Next week, Anissa. I like the idea of your show is just we tune in and you you're on the bathroom floor crying. It was a public bathroom. I was definitely not on the floor. It was a public bathroom. Any episode could come in and you're in your private bathroom though on the floor and we point the microphone and say, what is going on? What's going on with you right now? Get away from me. was the gratitude for that of really feeling, God, like this is, I'm here again and I feel like I did it wrong and like I failed and I...
00:28:18
Speaker
I'm able to be like my loving parent to myself in those situations. You didn't do anything wrong. Everything's okay. Nothing's gonna, nothing bad's gonna happen. But then there's that next level to it that I found of being like, I'm grateful that you got upset. At first I was like, fuck, why am I this upset? I shouldn't be that this is no big deal. I should not be this upset. Like this is illogical, right? And then, oh wait, I actually was able to give myself grace and say, I'm really grateful that you, your inner Issa self was able to get this upset and took to be able to cry and show and say what was bothering you and own it and sit with yourself. To have the the gratitude for the shitty stuff is, I i think sounds
00:29:03
Speaker
way easier said than done. But in the experience of having been able to do that, so much self-acceptance comes in those moments and came to me in that moment to really get to that next level of not only through the self-shaming to get through that, but also to get to the other side of that to be able to give myself gratitude for having a breakdown in the bathroom. you're You're saying something so important because it's this way through with ourselves that is highly underrated. And like you said, if you can't get there yet, I think having someone be able to reflect to you, like I've done this so many times where I'll apologize. I'm so sorry I'm such a mess or I'm so sorry I'm breaking down if if a friend is helping me or a family member and the affirmation of like, don't be sorry.
00:29:58
Speaker
I love you for this. This is what makes you you and it is okay. And this is where you're at. And that makes it, you know, beautiful and profound and important to hold space for you to be brave enough to keep going into it. Because a lot of times when you're alone and you don't have the coping or the access to guidance and the tools, e you do want to run away from it and avoid it because it can feel painful or scary or all these things. And so thank you so much for sharing that piece of the gratitude of that feeling and then how it can build.
00:30:37
Speaker
the next time you go through, the next time the intense experience comes in and I want to fucking run for the hills. I can go into it. The last time I was grateful for it at the end. there was Yeah, there was something to look forward to. And I think that comes to like self-help at its basic bare bones version of self-help is to be able to be like, what am I experiencing negative?
Critique of the Wellness Industry
00:31:00
Speaker
And how can I help myself through that? Experience and for me this time it looked like actually I had my iPad I was in a in a library and so I went to a desk and I just sat down and I started typing to myself What are you feeling and then typing out the answer of what I was feeling like how can I how can I support you just at treating myself as though I'm I'm my own friend, you know or my own loving parent really showing up for myself and that is what I would say is the like simplest form of self-help is to just be able to like
00:31:34
Speaker
tune into yourself and say, what can I do to help you? That's great. And we're done. We have now reduced the entire self-help industry into... Does that sound so rudimentary and dumb? I don't know. Part of me feels like I just had a profound moment with myself, but I don't know. No, I will reflect to you that that because of that beautiful saying, however it goes, like the simplest answer is usually the right one, that over-complication, and it is true, we're complex human beings, so everyone's going to need different things, but there is a way to refine something to its core. I think Buddhism does it well.
00:32:13
Speaker
yeah I think Christian contemplation does it really well. I think the native and indigenous people speak to doing it really well. And I think you did just kind of sum up that self-help industry. So what I was going to pivot to was, all right, let's break.
00:32:42
Speaker
Okay, so I want to so i want she wants to i wanted to see what your thoughts are on the self-help industry, the wellness industry, as to people who have spent a lot of time, energy, and money, as we've mentioned, inside this industry. what we've learned from it, what we've gained from it, what are our observations of it. And I'm interested in, especially for you, because you are a wellness coach. You do work with nutrition, you do work holistically with people. What are your thoughts? Yeah, I am a fan. Oh yeah? Yeah, I'm a fan of self-help and wellness industry personally because
00:33:26
Speaker
I've gained a lot of knowledge through self-help books and courses and just information. I think the most challenging part for me is discerning what is trustworthy and not because there's so much. We're just in the information age and there's just so much information and not all of it's vetted obviously. So I think that's the most challenging thing for me is having like vetted information around self-help and wellness. I think that's why I'm so fascinated with psychology because it is empirical and we can test things you know and can't really see the effect of certain things and if they work or not. Whereas a lot of times wellness is just like, do this and you'll feel better and how do you measure feeling better? you know like
00:34:11
Speaker
You kind of have to have some metric to to do that. For me personally, some of the classes and courses that I've taken that have helped me to relate to myself are some of the more profound. I've taken... Can I just interject by saying I love the way you say that. How you relate to yourself. I think that that's a profound way of wording that. How you relate to yourself.
00:34:42
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, cause I've heard you say it before and it always makes me feel, Oh wow. Yeah. Something's real going on there. Meaning something deep is happening when she's talking about that and relate to yourself in a good way. I've heard you say that. And I just, it it refers to you being in relationship with yourself. Yeah. And thinking about healthy relationships, if you're in a good relationship with yourself, you can start a good relationship with your work, your creativity, others. Or you can improve it. You know, it's not like you have to start over, but the but that for me, like... Oh, I meant start. Start A. Like your starting point with yourself or relating with yourself well, then you can start a healthy relationship with them. Yes. Yes. Yeah, definitely. Thank you for saying that. Because yeah, it does feel profound and it does feel like a deep
00:35:35
Speaker
practice. Yeah, for sure. And was so I think where you're going with this, and I'll just ask it, is you said you've taken classes and you... Yeah, I've done Tony Robbins events, I've done exercise courses, I've done, you know, workshops on meeting your guides and communicating with them, meeting your house angels, your ancestors, I've done Kundalini classes and courses and workshops, I've done God, it seems like a lot. That's a lot. I was i was like, that's a lot. yeah And I know there's more even. And then you're in school for psychology. Do you find that there's, is there something of a commonality or a through line or something overall that's been gained by all those different types of exploration? One thing that stands out on the top of it is community. When I choose to partake in those
00:36:29
Speaker
workshops or those events, there are people that have also made that choice. It's been a really awesome way for me to find authentic community with people I can relate to, especially the more spiritual events, you know but also the the business events and the things like that as well. I think I can trust that There are always relations to be made, positive, healthy relationships to be made, regardless of what event I find myself out. But um community is definitely something that has been a through line of value that I've taken away from those things. Also putting myself in these positions where I am open to learning something new is I like being in that state of receptivity. I like being in a place where I'm learning something ah that kitent has the potential to help me and then
00:37:17
Speaker
from there, my situation. Yeah, I do too. When you said community earlier, it made me think of this through line that we have on the podcast of the differentiating community versus cult. And I do wonder about this for myself, the wellness and self-help industry. um is susceptible to cult-like behaviors or cult-like dynamics. A lot of pseudoscience and yeah. Because there's leaders in it that have authority on topics and there are people in vulnerable states wanting to pay money to get better. Yeah there's that susceptibility element to it and there's also like
00:38:02
Speaker
the money. It's like the same that like politics I say that like I would get into politics if money wasn't involved. Is that a real thing you would say you say? Yeah, if it was just civil service, if it was straight civil service, yeah. But I think money corrupted political, there's just a corruption that I have no interest in partaking in. But when you have somebody whose livelihood and their way of life is based off of their wellness product they're selling and they need to make their bills, their food on the table, you hope that there's integrity behind all these things because they are in the vein of helping people. But that's not always the case.
00:38:41
Speaker
Have you found, because you have done so much work, both as a coach inside the industry and you're being a participant in the industry, do you have any sense of how you make those discernments of if someone is, because it's not just a charlatan, right? I think most of the time people can be like, That's bullshit. I think people maybe can have that discernment when it's on that far end of the spectrum. But then when it gets to the middle and it's just packaged well or if it is well meaning, I don't even know. Do you have a sense of discerning? Even then, marketing is so good now. Certain marketing can be so good and there's so much psychology in marketing that they can just hit a pain point that you have that makes you think you need that thing. Absolutely. And it's going to help you and you buy it. What do you do? So what do we do?
00:39:29
Speaker
like go ah have you Have you felt susceptible to that? Yeah at times but usually it has more been with business than like my own wellness. Okay well let's talk about business. What made you feel like that happened? Just you know solving problems again it just goes back to solving problems and I think that's what all businesses are and I think that's what the wellness industry is doing very well. It's filling that gap between where somebody is and where they want to be and if your product can fill that gap if your product can solve that problem of you know for business it's like oh the back end of my website I need to have it functioning better and someone has an ad that says we right the backend is and for wellness it's like we can help you get from point A to point B and that's
00:40:16
Speaker
You know, i you that doesn't spark something that I think is really important distinction. know Getting someone from point A to point B and getting them to that place in point B where they can take that information and use it for a while and be better off for it and and be independent or have agency inside of that. What I've noticed is that some programming will get you from point A to point B and then be like, you need to get to point C now. And I have the program for you for that. There's a continual dumping of money and your own resources and your own time that does, even if it doesn't fully go into the cult because cults become controlling of your money and your time.
00:40:53
Speaker
and your relationships. But even if it doesn't go that far, it can become cult-like because it's a silo in which there's this pressure to continue on inside of the programming. And my experience has been that when I've been able to get out of those specific programs and use what I got from them, but then move on to others, maybe that's what I need, or just take a break, take a fucking break from self-development, like chill the fuck out for a second. That has been when integration can recur. And sometimes I'll come back to some of those course works
00:41:35
Speaker
And I'm thankful for those that are lifetime access for that reason, because it can hit differently and it can integrate better sometimes. And so I guess I'm just like, I am actually speaking up on a little bit of a soapbox to be like, if you feel like the answer is definitely in someone else's like program and you need to take the next step, consider taking a break and seeing if that's still true. Yeah, incubation. It's really important. It's very important. especially in the wellness industry, I think you're leaning a little bit more towards like coaching and programs and courses, which the wellness industry is much bigger than that. I mean, it includes like real estate and just... Wait, what? Wellness real estate. Come again. Have you ever looked at the global wellness summit? Clearly not, because what are you talking about? I love wellness. There's wellness architecture. Explain, I don't understand how those two speak together. There's like whole hotels that are developed for wellness. You know, the spa industry is a part of wellness. There's
00:42:33
Speaker
buildings that are made to have you live more wholesome and well. Oh, I didn't know this. Yeah. There's community building that is wellness. it's And then you get to like, there's like tinctures and that's wellness. You know, a physical fitness and exercise, that's wellness. It's a huge industry. It's a multi-billion dollar industry. Right. I didn't think about that though. Yeah. So you're talking more like the courses in that respect is it's important to acknowledge that I am not a problem to be fixed. yeah Whereas in business, a lot of times there is a problem to be fixed and the product fixes the problem. And in self-development, it's just that. It's a developmental a development process. It's not a problem to be fixed. And so just as I go through my process of, I love self-help, I love reading books about how to
00:43:23
Speaker
treat myself or what tools I can use. But it it's really been very, very important for me to acknowledge I'm not solving a problem in myself. I'm learning so that I can interact with myself in the world in a new way, because I like doing that. I will always be a spiritually expanding being. And there's not a version of me that I'm going to get to where everything is going to be like peachy, you know, just keeping that metric on while interacting with different courses or things you want to do or books you want to buy is a good one for me. At least that helps me discern. and And you were talking about, how do I tell when it's not good or good? Tuning into that intuition and asking myself, is this right for me? Do I need this? Like you said, take a break, walk away from it.
00:44:11
Speaker
Talk to somebody about it. Call your friend, you know, and say, hey, I'm thinking about doing this. What do you think about it? And then they might be like, you don't fucking need that. Yeah. I know you and you're fine. Go for a run and call it good. Yeah. And take that and take that in with the grain of salt as well in terms of then check against yourself. Check it against yourself. But there is something really clever that I remember a lot of the early multi-level marketing that was real scammy. in the 2000s came out, which they would say, no, no, no, you don't need to talk to anybody. You don't need to consult your friends. You can make this decision. It sounds empowering. It sounds like it, but it's actually isolation. It's actually a cult-like dynamic of isolation to have you trust them over your circle. You know, for someone who doesn't have a circle, that's when you start there. Okay, we need a supportive circle for you to have a circle. But you don't have to buy one. No, you don't have to buy one. You do not have to do it. Yeah. Especially if you don't have the money. And this is where I get really infuriated or just fired up about it is that the way in which certain courseworks and programs and coaching can kind of be like the reason why you don't feel like you have the money right now is because you need this program.
Financial Integrity in Wellness Coaching
00:45:20
Speaker
And that is really, I think, a not a good dynamic because it doesn't reinforce like socially responsible care for people's finances. Like, no, sometimes putting shit on credit cards that is outside of your budget because you didn't even have a budget to begin with is not like they're living in a different maybe ah socioeconomic space for you where they can afford to go into debt, but you might not be able to and that's okay. I don't know what to call it, but it feels a little predatory. Yeah, it's kind of manipulative and I have a personal experience of that that really turned me off from coaching it for a long time. I set that down because I just felt like after I had the experience where I hired a coach and definitely looking back was kind of manipulated into thinking it was within my means and that it was no big deal when it really was a lot of money for me at the time and I did get things out of that course on that coach but I felt like I got taken advantage of. I felt manipulated and it made this kind of shade on the entire coaching industry for me where I felt like it was really shwarmy. I felt like it was this okay give me 7,000 I'll show you how to make 8,000 kind of deal and it was like and that didn't feel good so much so that I didn't feel
00:46:36
Speaker
good about there not being like qualifications of of treatment and integrity within the coaching industry because there really is you can just become a coach. There's not yeah anything life coaching does not have ah any kind of licensure licensure. Yeah. And so that's, you know, one of the reasons I went back to school was because of what you're expressing that like little bit of it's hard to say predatory but i mean i didn't feel good about that and i never wanted to be in a position where anybody that i was coaching felt like that yeah and because i was trained by that person on closing deals and i'm really good at it i just was like i don't know if this feels
00:47:13
Speaker
ah in alignment with me. yeah And now I've talked to you about Kyara and I've come to the other side of that and felt like, oh no, that's not who I am. I would never, know I would never want to manipulate or pressure somebody into buying a package that they couldn't afford or make them feel like they needed it. And you'd be able to ask the questions to discern where they really are at and care for them at the level where they're at. yeah Like you have that intuition and that ability and the skill set to ask those questions to understand who your who your perspective client is and the integrity to walk away from it and encourage the right direction for them for truly for their own.
00:47:51
Speaker
wellness. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. And this isn't everybody's experience. so Some people can afford courses and it's no big deal that they spend the money on it and it's no big deal. But I think that's a very, very important thing to say is if you don't have the money to spend and someone's saying you need this to make the money. That's a dangerous place to be. And just go into it knowing, having that awareness of this could be something where the risk of me spending this money, but there's no guarantee. This person's promising this, but I have to be aware that I'm willing to put this money down knowing that I may have to pay it off myself in debt and that they might not be able to help me because that's just how it goes. Whether it's their program or me, I might fall short inside their program. But that's a trap but too. But that's a trap too. I was just going to say, thank you, please say. Yeah, that's a trap too, because that's like the biggest cop out. It's like gaslighting. Yeah, it's fully gaslighting. It's like, well, it would have worked if you did it right. Yeah. You have to be fully committed, which is also, I have experienced inside of spiritual courses.
00:48:52
Speaker
And it's tricky at the beginning, the leaders, like the leader, the the yeah the, you know, person giving the seminars is like, what we need from you is for you to be fully in, you know, fully in, fully here, fully willing, fully open, play all out. And there is something to that because when you put your position in your brain and your heart in a way of like you were saying earlier, like open to receiving, the information that can help you. It can be beneficial for you. It also can make you susceptible because you're really putting your trust into someone and opening your heart, your mind, your spirit, whatever, to hear this information. And if that person you know is good at what they do and they're selling something, you will feel helped and then you will buy the next thing. I've been to enough seminars and I'm like, they're set up a certain way to sell.
00:49:40
Speaker
And they encourage you to get your credit card. they They encourage these things that does lead to sales. And so the I'm just saying like the benefit of being able to be aware that that's what's going on. Yeah. And that so that you can have the agency to say, Oh no, I don't want to do that right now. This was beneficial. This free seminar was beneficial, but I don't have to buy it. And if everyone and around, cause that's the group thing, if everyone around me is buying it, there is this, Oh, maybe this is right for me, but take time. That's the biggest thing to take time. And I recently had experience with something completely different where several practitioners I went to in this space were like,
00:50:19
Speaker
No, you take your time. I really want what's best for you. If it's finding someone else, that's really what's going to be best. And it was genuine and they meant it. And this is their business. And I felt the difference. And they're like, in fact, let me give you the number of this other one that I think you should try to go talk to. And that integrity. Well, I love books for that reason too. That's a good point. I love books for that reason because you can, you know, read it and if there's something that stands out to you, you can use it and you can come back to it later and nobody's trying to make you buy more things in a book. It's true. And podcasts, like the the the level of information age where there's now free information, that's where I've turned to now before going and investing in a course because I have blown money.
00:51:03
Speaker
Let's be real. I have large chunks of money. This was a problem for a minute. It really was. It's it's it's you know it's like not financially- She's a recovering course head. Yeah, ah not financially responsible for buying things in business and for in personal growth development that didn't really actually pan out for me and not and and really wanting to put my money to help me because it was the only thing that I felt like I could because I'm like, I have this resource, and i and did I really? like No, I spent time paying off credit cards to it. But it was still, even said, like that's my path, I own it, I work with it, and I've since changed. So this is how I've changed, is now, if there is a program that that I'm interested in or someone recommends, I will look for all of the free resources first. I will go through as much of free resources as they have. If they don't have a lot of free resources, I don't trust it.
00:51:56
Speaker
who I've noticed that there are people in integrity in business and wellness that are giving away a lot because their paid stuff has value. And they're growing. They're evolving. They're not relying on their single first course to sell to you. They're the progressing as business people. They're becoming more so more successful in what they do and wanting to give more. Yeah. And being of service. Even that is a tactic. It absolutely is. Because I was taught to do that, to give away freebies, you know? Yes. And and it is, and it's the quality of the freebies yeah because you're like, am I really getting something from this? and If this person was in person with me, how would I feel? Oh, that's a good one, too. You know, like, would I want to hang out with them, you know? And it is a feeling place. That's the other thing I think I do. I sit with
00:52:41
Speaker
be free information. And I go, do I feel pressure? Is this free information making me feel like I need to do more with this? Is it just helping me right now? to feel a little more settled. And my big kicker is like, do I feel like I could walk away and still be okay with this? And this is what's counterintuitive, but I'm like, yeah, I can walk away and totally not probably need this. And that's what allows me to go, do I really want this? How can I see that this fits? yeah Then I'm like, okay, I'm still curious. I'm still interested. Do they have ah you know something else that is more free?
00:53:19
Speaker
This makes me think of just like the decision making process and for people who have experienced trauma in childhood, a lot of times will have a really hard time making decisions as adults and it can bring a lot of stress and anxiety and just be really challenging to do to just make simple decisions can be a challenge. so I think you're describing me. Yeah. i think A lot of people, you're not alone. And even if you didn't have trauma, it can be hard to make decisions. Like, let's be honest, that's not the only prerequisite,
Making Informed Wellness Decisions
00:53:48
Speaker
right? Being alive can be the prerequisite. But um I think having tools that help you make decisions is really important. For me, ah time, like that incubation thing of really having time, preying on it, soul journaling about it. And also there's a really good meditation that I can link in the show notes that is on decision making where
00:54:08
Speaker
They walk you through going into the feeling state of, say, in this example, buying the course, you know the the reality of that, what it can give you, what it's going to do, how you're going to feel in it, and then you put that experience in a bottle and you put it on a shelf, and then you go through the experience of not buying the course, what you're going to feel like, what could benefit, all that. You put it in a bottle and you put it on a shelf, and then you intuitively go, which one do I want to choose? and you You will go to the one. That is genius because there is something to be said from, and this is in Malcolm Gladwell's book, Blink. The immediate reactions to things are usually the truthful reactions. Before your frontal cortex is interpreting the information, your body is already giving you information.
00:54:59
Speaker
Yeah, that's so cool. And that is so cool. And they've done studies. Trust your body. They've done studies and tests on this. And so because a lot of the selling techniques, like we were saying, go into the psychological part of it, that leaning on the somatic part of it for yourself to discern is a useful tool. Absolutely. So I'm so glad you're going to offer that because that's rad. I want to listen. Yeah, it's a good one. I sent it to Amber and Sean. Our cousins. Yeah, our cousins in South Korea. When Sean was trying to make a decision, I think about grad school or something. And he said that it was helpful. I think he said it was helpful. We'll have to ask him. I think he sent me a text. At least he said thank you for sending it. I can't remember if he did it. Sean, did you do it? Did you do it?
00:55:43
Speaker
There's also a decision-making matrix. It's like called the oh shoot I had a flashcard on this just last week and my mind has shut off. It's like an organizational problem-solving I think is what it's called. I'm just gonna say that's what it's called. I'll put it in the show notes. It's a process where you can go through your options and you associate numbers to them and then you multiply them and then it gives you the answer of what option you should take. like based on your value like the the issues the options and your values and then yeah yeah it's it's like a mathematical way of of sorting through problem-solving problems or decision-making decision-making yeah my friend sent me one when she was in business school so yeah use you not only because sometimes your own intuition your own judgment can
00:56:26
Speaker
lead you astray, unfortunately. And so feeling how you feel about it and then running it through these other options to make sure it's all in alignment. Give yourself more information before you feel like, you you know, that's okay to gather more information. always. Yeah. Like I don't want someone to walk away listening to this podcast and be like, no, they told me the first thing I thought was right. I just need to go get it. Don't do it. Don't do it. Well, maybe read, read blank, get the full context. But no, it's okay to pause and need more information. And the other thing about just last thing about the courses is I've realized I'm like, they, they'll put them up again.
00:57:03
Speaker
Yeah, there'll be a window open. There's another open again. They're going to keep selling it. Don't worry. I say too, I'm like, if it's this if it's the sale point, meaning like the discount or whatever on the webinar that I'm looking at that I want, i go I go, would I buy this at full price? Am I okay with that? And I can't right now. So yeah, I'll wait till I have the money to buy it at full price. right that's a good yeah and it'll be fine because it'll be worth it to me because that's how much i really want it yeah yeah you can always sleep on it yeah yeah i always sleep on it well teach feel pretty good about this episode yeah oh can you add though what one thing i'm not calling you that
00:57:42
Speaker
I am not going to call you. She just doesn't listen, you guys. I just, what are we going to do with her? It's just control. It's weird. Like, can you call me Eagle Sun? This is what I said to her off because she said this before we started recording too. And I was like, no, bro, I'm not calling you that. And she's like, she's like, yeah, call me Eagle Sun. I'm like, you know what? That makes me that makes me the lesser of the lesser ape. You haven't seen the movie. Just notice the roles between the character, Eagle Sun. He was great. Yeah, and he was, but there was a superiority thing there. And Eagle Sun was above, so no. Oh, I see. I see. Okay, now you know okay. Okay. I think we did it. Listen.
00:58:25
Speaker
I don't know what we did, but we did it. Look, unattainable ideals are overrated. We're way more connected and deserving than society's false sense of separation dictates us to be. You're not just one person, you're enough. Your effort is enough and change is possible. Question the standard that says otherwise because what if almost is good enough? Just by tuning in, you're a part of our clan. Not in a call-to-way though. We don't know how far this ripple can go, but we're going to keep showing up. And we'll never get to perfection, but we're all going to be okay if we let the process be the solution and we see the value in the attempt. Thanks for listening to another episode of the ripple affect. We're looking forward to exploring a different facet of change with you next Tuesday. Same time, same place next week.
00:59:20
Speaker
For show notes and additional resources, check out our website at rippleeffectpod.com. That's affect with an A. Kia ora has worked diligently to make our website interactive. Please visit it so it wasn't all for nothing. In all seriousness though, there's a ton of resources there. DM us directly at rippleeffectpod on Instagram and let us know what you liked about our show or any of your own ideas. We're really excited to hear from you. We value your feedback because it helps us make the pod better and it's our way of including you in our process.
00:59:54
Speaker
Okay, so ratings aren't the point of why we do this. We really want to make a change in the world. But in the matrix, they're all our algorithms. So yeah, every single review we get helps the ripple go farther. To help us out, please take two seconds, find the ratings and review section on whatever platform you're listening from, click five stars, wink, wink, and leave a review. We know you're busy, so just saying hello or literally hi as the review helps us hack the matrix. We sincerely appreciate it. If you want to become officially initiated into our clan, again, not in a cult-y way, hit the subscribe button wherever you get your podcasts. And as always, we're in it with you. Keep questioning. Stay curious. You got this, clan.
01:00:46
Speaker
A special thank you, love and credit to the magnificent Mia Casasanta for this beautiful music you're listening to right now.