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EP 20: Feeding Baby Pt. 2 Featuring Feeding Consultant Beth Ann Ingrassia
2k Plays2 years ago
This week we welcome certified feeding therapist and speech pathologist Beth Ann Ingrassia to the mom group chat!
As a practicing speech language pathologist, Beth Ann was lightly exposed to the skills of infant and toddler feeding in some of her cases and training. Once becoming a mother herself and feeling the overwhelm of transition to solids, she threw herself into learning all she could about baby lead weaning through the solid starts methodology She quickly became her social circle’s “go-to” resource for feeding and weaning advice, which lead her to become a certified feeding therapist in the state of New York and begin coaching families through their feeding journeys.
There are so many nuggets and ah-ha moments in this chat with Beth Ann. Whether your are in the newborn phase and anxious for weaning or in the throws of it with a picky toddler, this episode is sure to be helpful as well as relatable. Please enjoy our conversation with Beth Ann Ingrassia.
Beth Ann’s Instagram - @verbalist.slp
Verbalist SLP website
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Transcript
Introduction to the Podcast and Guests
00:00:07
Speaker
There's no right way to do it. Oh, we're going to get into it. Hey moms, this week we welcome certified feeding therapist and speech pathologist Beth Ann and Gracia to the mom group chat. Now, if you listened to our last feeding baby episode, you know that myself, Candace and Whitney all struggle with mealtime with our littles, but Beth Ann brought us so much wisdom in this episode. We all left feeling more confident.
Beth Ann's Journey to Specializing in Feeding Therapy
00:00:35
Speaker
She talks about mindset and also shares practical tips you can try today. As a practicing speech pathologist, Beth Ann was exposed to the skills of infant and toddler feeding in some of her cases in training. Once becoming a mother herself and feeling the overwhelm of transitioning to solids,
00:00:53
Speaker
She threw herself into learning all she could about baby-led weaning through the popular Solid Starts methodology. She quickly became her social circle's go-to resource for feeding and weeding advice, which has evolved into her opening her own practice coaching families through their feeding journeys.
00:01:12
Speaker
There are so many nuggets and aha moments in this chat with Beth Ann. Since recording this episode, I have implemented some of her guidelines with TJ directly and seen positive results, which is huge. It's boosted my confidence so much. So whether you are in the newborn phase and anxious for safely weeding, or you're in the throes of it with a picky toddler, this episode is sure to be helpful as well as relatable. Please enjoy our conversation with Beth Ann and Gracia.
00:01:41
Speaker
Hello, hello. Welcome to the mom group chat.
Beth Ann's Diverse Background and Transition to Speech Pathology
00:01:46
Speaker
Bethann and Gracia, how are you? I'm great. Thanks for having me. Oh my gosh. We are so excited to have you. Bethann is a friend of mine, a friend of the podcast. And after we had our Feeding Baby episode a few weeks ago, which if you've been listening, you know, was really more of just a complaint session and bitch fest about,
00:02:11
Speaker
feeding our toddlers and us realizing that none of us were doing a great job.
00:02:15
Speaker
I thought of Beth Ann and we had a chat when I was visiting her in New York. And as it turns out, she's a certified feeding therapist now, which makes sense because she's been amazing with her daughter, Louisa. So we'll get into all of that. And I was like, we have to have you on the pod to actually help us and help our listeners with what we're doing here, because this is an area where I feel like so many people struggle.
Philosophy and Approach to Baby Feeding
00:02:43
Speaker
So we are so excited to have you Beth Ann.
00:02:46
Speaker
I'm so excited to be here and I loved that episode. Oh, really? If I would think that you would be like, oh, these people need help. They need a professional. Well, I mean, part of it is the kids are every kid is so different. And I guess I maybe know what I'm doing more, but I also have been really lucky with Louisa, who has been so easy in general, but then also just a great eater. I don't know how much that was me or
00:03:15
Speaker
I mean, she's just a very easy baby, so I think it must have helped. So is mac and cheese a food group? That's my question. It's fine. Yeah. So the approach I take is I'm really relaxed, and I think everyone should be relaxed about eating, and it's more about inviting the baby into your meal routine.
00:03:38
Speaker
Yes, yes, I want to get into everything. But before we start talking about actually feeding the babes, I'd love to hear a little bit more about you Beth Ann for the listeners who don't know you and also for myself because I don't know exactly how you got into the feeding therapist game. But tell us a little bit about you and your background and how family
00:04:03
Speaker
Your family, tell us about Louisa and how you got into this passion of yours. Yeah, this was definitely by accident. Originally, I went to school for art history at Princeton, and then I tried a bunch of different careers. The one I settled on was advertising, and I'm saying this because I remember your guest, Julia, had a different career. Yes, I love the pivots.
00:04:26
Speaker
Yes, I pivoted to go back to grad school for speech language pathology. And I got interested in that because I've always loved language and I love helping people one on one. So yeah, it was not about feeding at all. But that is part of the scope of practice of speech language pathologists. So there were a few courses I took in grad school, everyone had to take including swallowing disorders. And then I took a few more elective classes about babies. So one of them was infant and toddler feeding. So I had I had those skills. And then I became
00:04:54
Speaker
an early intervention speech pathologist. And most of the cases are actually about language delays, speech delays, but some of them were for feeding delays or feeding problems. And I would often just reject those cases because I didn't feel comfortable doing them. So really what grad school left me with was a profound respect for the swallowing mechanism.
00:05:17
Speaker
And I was sure that I love language more. That's my passion. It's language. So I did take a few cases when my supervisors assured me that they would help me and that I felt I could handle. And those were more ones like picky eating. And I felt they've been checked out by doctors. It's nothing physical. It's more behavioral.
00:05:43
Speaker
and we can try to make food. A lot of the times the parents have been so stressed out by their baby not eating that it was more about reassuring the parents too. So I did a few of those cases.
Overcoming Personal Challenges in Baby-Led Weaning
00:05:54
Speaker
When the time came for my daughter to start eating, I felt so overwhelmed, even though
00:06:02
Speaker
So at four months, the pediatrician was like, you know, I think she's ready. She's ready to start feeding. I was like, what? Little bobblehead. I'm not ready. I heard something about it. Like, what am I going to do? So she said, OK, like, give it two more weeks. And it was really for me to get my act together. Yeah, so I did. So I had been casually looking at solid starts on Instagram, and I loved them. At that point, I bought one of their plans, the 100 day, the first 100 days.
00:06:32
Speaker
It was a great video introduction and an actual step by step. Here's what you can do each day. If you need to be handheld the whole way, you can follow this exactly or take from it what you want. I'd love that. I also did a baby CPR online course with a ... I got the actual baby dummy because I was so nervous about children.
00:06:55
Speaker
So scary. I was so overwhelmed through solid starts. I just began to feel so much more confident and like I knew that if she's choked, I would be able to help. And then also, I learned that choking from from eating solids is so unlikely, they're more likely to choke on a toy that they find on the ground. Yeah, so I loved the content there. And then I, I followed it.
00:07:20
Speaker
I bought more of the courses and then things were going really well with Louisa. And I had some friends come to me and say like, you know, I like solid starts, but my mom who's taking care of the baby during the day is really only into spoon feeding. She's so afraid. Can you like do a zoom with us so that we can all get on the same page? And I started to realize that this is a real need. Maybe I'm not an expert, but I know more than a lot of people and I've
00:07:44
Speaker
I wanted to help. So yeah, it came about organically. So I was so anxious in the beginning and I was anxious about a lot of things with my baby, but then it became something I just don't worry about, which I think is the goal.
00:07:57
Speaker
Yeah, I think it's so scary, what you mentioned being afraid and they seem so little when that first milestone hits where you start feeding. And I know for me, my biggest fear was choking. Because as a non-professional or somebody who has no idea what
00:08:19
Speaker
it looks like a first time mom, it looks like they're choking like all the time.
Addressing Common Feeding Fears and Misconceptions
00:08:23
Speaker
And they sounds like they're choking. So just like not having an education or information about what's really supposed to happen other than, you know, the mom's on call book, which provides a schedule, but like, not like
00:08:39
Speaker
this is what might happen or any fundamentals on swallowing or the mechanisms that are happening. Yeah, it can be really scary. Tell us a little bit just like high level about Louisa and your family you're expecting. Tell us a little bit about your family makeup. Well, I love that we're all on the same boat with family. I know. Welcome to the park. I'm glad you're still here with me. I thought you might be like,
00:09:07
Speaker
Barely. I have like less than two weeks, so. We literally joked before you before you joined the call. We were like, Whitney, you could literally go into labor like as we record this. I saw Shannon and Candace on the email and I was like, oh, I guess Whitney's in labor. Not yet. Surprise, I'm here. Yeah. I live in Brooklyn with my husband, Bobby, and my
00:09:34
Speaker
22 month old dollar Louisa, and I am 23-ish weeks pregnant with a baby boy due in December. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Yay. We're both December. Is her birthday October? October 21st, yeah. Love it. And I've been mostly stay at home mom, but also I work a little bit with the early intervention population, and then I've been doing this feeding consulting.
Becoming a Certified Solid Starts Professional
00:10:02
Speaker
So I guess I didn't continue my story from before, but once Solid Starts came out with a professional development offering, I jumped on it like that day and I did the course and took the test like the next day. So I became one of the first professionals listed on their directory. And so I started to get
00:10:19
Speaker
referrals from that people within New York who had toddlers who were either like all they ate was milk and they're two years old and they know feel like they missed the boat and they're about two and we're still being spoon fed and there are you know strong family pressures to make sure that the baby never went hungry and how do I navigate like letting them go hungry if they're not eating
00:10:40
Speaker
the food that's offered with my parents wanting to overfeed them and give them snacks whenever. It's so emotional. People get so serious, especially grandparents, other family members. Everyone's very sure. It's funny that all of the clients I've had so far, one was mainly about the grandparents and their influence, and then one mentioned
00:11:07
Speaker
the grandparents think they're starving the kid and one, and then the other one was like the grandparent believing since they didn't have teeth yet, there's no way they could tackle us, you know, like a solid food. What is up with them? They have like two teeth. It's like they're not chewing with their front teeth. What's up with them pushing the dry cereal in the milk?
00:11:30
Speaker
I'm like, we can't please stop. I think like the fundamentals of feeding babies and toddlers has just come so far than like when we were little 30 years ago or 33 years ago, whenever.
00:11:46
Speaker
Like my mom, I remember like literally sitting down with her in the solid starts course and because my mom watches Alice full time. So I remember sitting down with her and being like, this is what we're going to do. And she was like, what, you're just going to sit a piece of broccoli in front of her? And I'm like, yeah, and she's going to eat it.
00:12:07
Speaker
It took a week or two of me showing her what we were doing and also just her witnessing Alice actually eat these things and swallow them and gag a little bit. And then she was props to my mom.
00:12:22
Speaker
She was not one of those grandparents that is like, no, this is not how you do it. She was very open and like great about like wanting to do what we wanted to do. And she got super into the solid starts app and was like tracking what we tried. It was like really fun for her. So I got really lucky, but I think it's hard for the moms of generations past to like accept this new way of feeding that isn't, hasn't always been the norm, you know?
Emotional Aspects and Generational Differences in Feeding Practices
00:12:51
Speaker
Yeah. Like you were saying before, there's just so much emotion around the wanting to take part of taking care of the baby is making sure they're fed and happy. And, um, you know, you want them to sleep through the night and you want to make sure that they're fed enough to do that. But actually they have to learn about hunger cues and they have to learn about not always getting everything that they want and boundaries and.
00:13:12
Speaker
Wow. I feel like you're speaking to me. I was going to say, I feel like we as humans in general now and even as adults are just more aware of our emotional relationship to food and our relationship to food. And I feel like as parents, that's making us
00:13:30
Speaker
I'm kind of stressed out. Maybe I'm just projecting and thinking about myself, but even more stressed out about setting good foundational steps with feeding because our relationship with food is such a big part of our adult lives. Do you think it starts from month six? A lot of it does, but I don't want any of that to stress anyone.
00:13:58
Speaker
The worst thing that you can do is be overly stressed and project stress onto your baby. And if you feel you've been doing that, don't worry, it's not too late to reverse course.
00:14:09
Speaker
Yeah, you're setting the foundations from like six to 12 months with the variety of flavors. You're exposing the baby to the emotional vibe of the mealtime. So isn't it mealtime fun? Is it a safe way to explore new things and get messy? Or is it like, are we under a time crunch where it has to be over in half an hour and mom's trying to feed me as much as possible and I don't have any choices? And so that can set the stage for a more picky feeding later.
00:14:38
Speaker
So yeah, there's like six to 12 months is just a great opportunity when babies are open to trying new things, learning how to chew. And I'm just trying, I'm learning about what meals are within your family. This is so interesting to hear you say this. So does the parent lead the vibe? Like are we in charge of the vibe check? Yeah. So the reason of responsibilities in feeding is this idea that you, the adult decide what is being served and
00:15:08
Speaker
the setting, like when and how. So if you're going to sit at the table, is it going to be quiet and relaxed? Is it more of a loud and social setting? Um, and then that baby decides whether to eat and how much. So the baby doesn't decide that they don't get to demand. Well, demand blueberries, but it's most of your parent, um, so that you're setting these boundaries. So then the child feels safe to learn and explore.
00:15:35
Speaker
Is there like a correct vibe? Like you mentioned, is it quiet and we're at the table or is it more social? Like, is there a correct way to do it? You should start with how, what your current vibe, like if your partner is or with the rest of your family. Um, some families are more loud.
00:15:55
Speaker
see how your baby takes it. And if they're overwhelmed and like not eating, maybe you need to shut off the music, shut off the TV, turn down the music, have them facing the wall instead of where they can see all their toys. But you just, you sort of like respond to how your baby is reacting, I would say. But like, you don't want to change your life to a comedy. It's not all about creating the perfect situation for your baby to start eating. It's like, what do meals look like right now? And what do I want them to be? And
00:16:22
Speaker
See how baby fits in. I mean, ideally I would love for him to eat what we're having for dinner and it just never ends up that way. Cause it's like what you said, like I want him to be full before bed, but if that's not necessarily the case, it's like, well, maybe we should just keep pushing what we're having. Yeah. So if it, what right now are you making separate things for him? I think there can be a slow transition to eating
Guiding Parents on Setting Mealtime Boundaries
00:16:49
Speaker
what you're eating. I think it's always possible. How old is?
00:16:55
Speaker
Oh, yeah, totally. Start to enforce the boundaries gently. You can have these stock phrases like, that's not on the menu tonight, or this is what we're having for dinner. I hear you want chicken nuggets, but we have ravioli and broccoli. If you're hungry, that's okay. You can wait until
00:17:13
Speaker
Like breakfast. Yeah. Yeah. Is it like, can you touch on the skipping meals or like starving them out? Because TJ. Let's starve them out. I mean, that's not like the term, but that's like what I feel like I would be doing for a little while if I didn't.
00:17:35
Speaker
serve him something special. And obviously that's not what we want. Like what we want is for him to be a part of our meal time. And like you said, like he's part of our family. We're not, I don't want to be a short order cook for him, but like how many meals can he skip?
00:17:50
Speaker
How do you do that? Yeah, I mean you can try so I So I think babies need to eat a lot less than you think You don't want them waking up in the middle of a night and that really sucks if you're going to hold a strong boundary around dinner Then you can give them make sure they for breakfast. That's something they really they really like or hopefully not as much that much time, but it could be like lunch versus dinner or
00:18:16
Speaker
breakfast versus lunch. Yeah, I guess that's like my scary point because Graydon goes to daycare. And so he's getting lunch there of things that like maybe he wouldn't necessarily eat at home. So I'm like, I can see what he's eaten or what they say he's eaten. But it's like dang, by the time he gets here, he's usually kind of hungry. So I'm like, well, I want to make sure he's eaten something today since I don't really know. So I think that's where I get nervous.
00:18:44
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's where a lot of people get nervous. It doesn't have to be drastic if you start where, meet them where they are right now. Like if you think they're really hungry after not eating lunch, you can move up snack a little bit earlier, give them things that you know they'll like, but then like limit it. It's not like unlimited crackers and try again with dinner and see how it goes. But hopefully, usually they learn pretty quickly that if, I mean, just like they learn, if I say no, then mom will bring me whatever I like.
00:19:13
Speaker
They'll also learn if I don't eat this, I'm going to be hungry and that doesn't feel great. Is there an age threshold for that? Or is that like from the beginning with giving them solids? If I offer, even at seven months or eight months, if I offered her strawberries and I don't know, like pancakes, strips or something, whatever. And if she didn't eat it, like, I mean, at that point they're still getting formula or milk. That's what's great about that age. So it's like they're still getting most of their nutrition from milk or formula.
00:19:44
Speaker
So yeah, it's like, this is what we're trying. If you don't like it, it's fine. It's just, let's touch it. Let's lick it. Let's squish it. It doesn't have to be about consumption. And then hopefully closer to 12 months, they're getting most of their, more of their nutrition, most of it through solids. And then you can start, like it's okay. You're listening to your body. It's okay if you don't want to eat all of that or you're not feeling the mushrooms today. I'll make sure that like we're going to eat again in three hours. Okay, cool.
00:20:13
Speaker
Okay. So is it like just kind of trusting the process? I guess like if so many people are struggling with this, where do you think most people are failing? I think exactly that. I think it's like, you might have to let go a little bit of the control and trust your baby so that if they're like, unless, unless they've fallen off their growth, growth chart to a degree that your pediatrician is concerned, they're, they're growing well enough that if they're
00:20:42
Speaker
hydrated, they're making enough dirty and wet diapers, they're sleeping a good stretch, then they're getting enough nutrition, and they have enough energy during the day to play, then they're eating enough, even if it seems like they're hardly eating anything. And I say this as, I mean, Louisa started out at the fourth percentile for weight, and my husband and I are like, I'm totally average, he's taller, his family's huge, we're like, this shouldn't be.
00:21:08
Speaker
But I always kind of trusted that she knew how much milk she needed. I wasn't worried about adding extra formula. I wasn't worried that she hardly ate anything, even as my husband really was worried. And she eventually, she grew, and she's more towards the 20th percentile now, but it was a really slow growth. It seemed like she was hardly eating anything because her stomach was so small because she was so tiny.
00:21:36
Speaker
Yeah. They are small too. You forget like their tummies are small. So when you're making portions and whatnot, I try to remember like if he eats a few bites, it's not like he needs to eat as much as I do. Like he's a small little boy. And also I think with a lot of people with formula, the babies end up being maybe bigger than they would have been. Cause it's, I mean, I don't know, it may sort of like,
00:22:05
Speaker
give them a little bit of extra plumpness. And then when people are switching to salads, they might lose a little bit of weight, but that's still totally normal. What would you say are like, I feel like there's two main areas that people with toddlers mostly, which is most of our listeners struggle with. It's like that six to 12 month
00:22:28
Speaker
period, which you already mentioned, where you have to like introduce lots of textures and, you know, they're starting to wean. It's their first foray into food, but then it's like, it seems like around 18 months to two, the pickiness really ratchets up. And then like, when does that, like, how long do you have to navigate that? And like, I guess since most of us have two year olds or like they're coming to like, what's on the horizon?
00:22:56
Speaker
I think it's more difficult. It's going to be more of them asserting their independence and more opportunities for you to set living boundaries. But yeah, I think it doesn't get better for quite a while. I've created a monster. I think they are still really picky. Just the baseline for most others is very picky until three or four.
00:23:20
Speaker
Yeah. So it's like, everyone has this expectation that their toddler is supposed to be eating like balanced, nutritious meals, but everybody's toddler is picky until they're four. Is that kind of like what I'm hearing? I think there's a range of pickiness. There's like problem pickiness where they're maybe they're losing weight and are anemic or whatever, or it's a struggle, meal times are a real struggle or they're, they're just not,
00:23:47
Speaker
It's okay if they never eat broccoli when they're a kid. Like you can keep offering it. It's okay if they don't eat it. Okay. So like nutrition as a concept, like we think about how many servings of vegetables we need a day and like we need iron and we need proteins. Like does that just not matter as much for them? It does. But if you're, you just, you don't have to think about each meal or each day as much as over a couple of weeks. Okay.
00:24:17
Speaker
Basically, just relax. So if you're offering a variety of whole foods and you keep exposing them to a variety of vegetables, different proteins, even if they just taste a little bit, you don't have to worry about the number of calories or you really shouldn't worry about the number of calories. Just sort of let them follow what feels good for them. The title of this episode is going to be You Need to Calm Down by Beth Ann.
00:24:46
Speaker
I want to make sure literally like nobody's calm. So I'm really glad we're having this conversation. Like we posted in our Facebook group and on Instagram that we were going to have a feeding therapist come on and everybody's worried about a lot. There are a lot of overlapping topics, but I wanted to transition in a minute here and do some like rapid fire questions.
00:25:11
Speaker
that people had for you, but before that, I mean, what I'm hearing is basically set the vibe. You can relax a little bit. Like every single meal does not need to be taken in a vacuum, like have a longer time horizon on the success of feeding. And also like, it sounds like it's, it's just natural for them to be picky at this time in life. Yeah. Toddler head.
00:25:39
Speaker
Is there like with your approach with being solid start certified, like could you distill or boil down your approach to feeding and like three key things? The main message that I get from solid starts is that there's the long game and the short game and it's.
00:25:58
Speaker
you want to focus on the long game of helping to develop adventurous or at least willing to try eaters who look forward to meals, who it's not a source of stress. The short game, and some days are short game days, like travel days, all the pouches they want.
00:26:18
Speaker
all the fun snacks they want. But over time, you're really in it for the long game of like having meals be a source of joy and calm family time and let them be able to try new things. And then another thing is you're kind of deciding what's important to your family. Like if you come from different cultural backgrounds,
00:26:36
Speaker
incorporate all that and what's important to you into your approach with meals. So yeah, just don't bend everything to what you think is the right way to feed a baby. My family is Cuban on both sides, my husband and me, and we're very loud. Mealtimes at Christmas and holidays, it's like
00:26:58
Speaker
border like chaotic, but I'm used to it because I grew up like that. And so I feel like if we were to create this like Zen meal environment here at home, like big holidays where like I want to have a good time or I want her to have a good time, like it would be a shit show because she would be used to this like Zen feeding environment when like holidays are litty. So you know what I mean? It's like, it's like, I have to, I, I've never,
00:27:28
Speaker
Really, I think like my biggest takeaway so far, I know we're only 30 minutes in, is that like we set the vibe. And I feel like I've been letting Alice set the vibe. And if she throws food immediately, it's like automatically this mealtime is a wash, it sucks.
Modeling Positive Eating Behavior and Cultural Values
00:27:42
Speaker
And it's like, actually, like I could lead her and like can do some things that would lead her in the right direction, you know? I never thought about it like that.
00:27:53
Speaker
Yeah. So another thing would be like having the baby join you at meals. So I think what a lot of people end up doing is sitting them in a high chair and sort of like facing them and watching them eat or like feeding them. You can concentrate. You concentrate on your own meal. You model your enjoyment of the meal and you're using the utensils and you're
00:28:14
Speaker
Like, hmm, this carrot is crunchy. I see you as crunchy. Like, it's just you're thinking about yourself. You're not trying to put too much attention on them because that can be pressure. They'll feel the pressure.
00:28:24
Speaker
Yeah, we discussed this during the first episode because we like dinner. We are in our 30s, so we've learned how to eat and we enjoy it. And then we feel like introducing our kid to the dinner table is just a shit show and it ruins dinner. I remember that part of the podcast and I was thinking, yes, enjoy your dinner with your husband. Make that a special time. Maybe have an earlier pre-dinner
00:28:50
Speaker
with your baby. They have to eat their real meal and you're eating like just kind of to show them or to model. So like ideally whatever they're eating but just you don't have to eat at times show them that you're that's what you're concentrating on not them.
00:29:09
Speaker
That makes sense. Like obviously the main, like all parenting things are like, you have to model good behavior. And then with feeding, we're just like watching being like eat, eat, eat.
00:29:22
Speaker
Yeah. I think like a lot of the people, a lot of the questions that people had were like, how do I not be frustrated? And I think just trying to remember, I think having the information that it's, it's not as serious as it seems like they're going to survive. They don't have to be eating a shit ton of calories and they don't have to have like all the perfect nutrition, like makes it easier.
00:29:48
Speaker
And then also just the camaraderie of knowing it's happening to everybody. If the thing is a vibe check, that's going to be my number one takeaway because I get so frustrated and upset that I'm sure he notices. Well, there's another part to that too that I think could be one of the three main points. I don't know where we are.
00:30:09
Speaker
trying to prevent becoming overly frustrated. It might mean moving dinner earlier. So like a lot of the times dinners are really hard meal. The baby's tired. They've been maybe they've been at daycare all day and they come home to you and want to let it all out. So maybe you move that dinner time up to like five o'clock and you still have your dinner later with your
00:30:30
Speaker
with your husband or older kids at seven or something. So a lot of it is like scheduling and finding the right time when they're not, like they're not hangry. They shouldn't ever come to the table hangry. Like make it, never get to them. Like so tired that they're ready for bed. Yeah.
00:30:46
Speaker
Yeah. That's something I've noticed too is Alice is a slower eater in that, like, I think she just like, yeah, like she just likes to enjoy, which I love. I love that. Um, but so something that I've noticed from my husband is he's like a quick eater. Like when we sit down at a restaurant and he wants to order right away, he wants to get out of there. And I'm someone who likes to like,
00:31:11
Speaker
Let's order an appetizer and a glass of wine and enjoy. But I've noticed my husband trying to rush meal time with Alice and he'll be like, it's almost like he likes to push meal time closer to her bath time so that we can just do dinner really quick. And I noticed she doesn't eat as well. So you're inspiring me to just be like, okay, let's give her a little bit of space around it. Maybe it does seem to be earlier so that we have a little bit
00:31:37
Speaker
of that buffer time to let her explore and eat, and it doesn't have to be so smashed in there. You should know that the actual mealtime is so valuable as a source of stimulation and learning. It's okay for that to be one of the main activities of the day. With Louisa, sometimes it will take over an hour. In the beginning, she might not be interested, especially when she was younger.
00:32:02
Speaker
But I thought it's not like I was trying to rush her to different baby activities. This is a great way to spend time as a baby. It's great fine motor practice. It's quality time with your parent or caregiver. It's a great way to spend an hour. Try to set up the schedule where you don't feel rushed. So interesting.
00:32:26
Speaker
I feel like my biggest takeaway is like you can start afresh. Like you saying to just relax. It's like I had a panic moment when we were talking about it and then I was like no she said relax and you can start anew and start trickling things in. So I feel like my husband's gonna like love you for this.
00:32:49
Speaker
because he's so not picky. I'm more of a picky person. So he's like, you're pushing your pickiness onto our son. And I'm like, I don't know what else to do. Well, I think it can be really hard for a lot of people who may have complicated experiences with food already. And I'm definitely happy to help, even with just a few text messages or just run some things by me. And I kind of give you ideas. It's so nice. Yeah.
00:33:15
Speaker
Okay. I have a question. Do, I think this is something like we've talked about definitely in our feeding baby episode. And just, I think we got some questions about is like, since Louisa is such a good eater and you're a feeding consultant, like do you cook all the time? And so I hate food shopping. I hate cooking. I made myself cook a bit, um, when we were starting out.
00:33:45
Speaker
I kind of saw it as an excuse to develop some skills and I really wanted to expose her to tons of food so I would try new things. I don't really anymore. We end up ordering in a lot and I'll do very, very basic cooking like eggs and just frozen vegetables and stuff.
00:34:04
Speaker
I'm like, I'm not a food person. I hate both of them. That makes me feel better. If your family culture is takeout, which like we do takeout a few nights a week, like I've been trying to make sure there's enough for like us to offer him some of like whatever we're eating for takeout. But now what I'm going to do is just offer that to him and not make like side yogurt or like the second meal that always inevitably ends up
00:34:32
Speaker
coming up, but has
Transitioning Toddlers to Mature Eating Habits
00:34:34
Speaker
this been? Or you can serve him a tiny bit of yogurt with whatever else that you're offering. Like slowly shrink the yogurt portion until it's gone. And if he finishes the yogurt right, you don't offer more. You're like, that's all. That's all the yogurt for today. It's 100 years. Zucchini. OK. Let's see. Let's try it.
00:34:59
Speaker
Okay. I feel like we cannot hog Bethann to ourselves. We need to transition to the rapid fire questions. There were so many. We got so many questions for you. I think we covered some of them already in our general discussion, but Bethann, are you ready? I'm just going to do like a grab bag. Yes, ready. These are always fun. All right. Let's see. What is the danger in providing a bottle past 12 months?
00:35:29
Speaker
It's not, okay, so it's not dangerous, it's not hurting your baby, but you wanna push them towards a mature swallow. So if you think about what it takes to suck from a bottle, the tongue is going back and forth, and it's a motion that feels very unnatural for us now, because we have a mature swallow, which is...
00:35:46
Speaker
Like our tongue is in a different position, it's moving in a different way. So if the baby is doing all bottles and not developing a mature swallow with straws or open cups, that could develop their tongue position, that could influence how their tongue is positioned for speech and for the shape of their mouth and things like that. So you wanna, wherever you are, if you're over 12 months, try to move them towards regular cups.
00:36:11
Speaker
Did they mean that question to wean off relying on milk, you think? No, I think this was the actual bottle mechanism. Oh. Did anyone else thrust their tongue back and forth when she said that? Oh, I did. Yeah. I was like, does it? I was like, that's true. OK, there was another related question, which is, do you have a recommended sippy cup?
00:36:43
Speaker
There's a feeding therapist that I really admired called Melanie Potok. She recently found what she thinks is the perfect cup. It's the num, num, num, num weighted straw cup. What they want is just down. I haven't tried this one. I'm saying for beginning straw cup users, my favorite one to use with Louisa is the gross
00:37:08
Speaker
gross Mimi or grow Mimi. Do you know that one? It's, um, it has all the features that parents love. Like it's, it has measurements right on the cup, which a lot of them, the other ones don't do. It's pretty spill proof, but it doesn't, the, the, the valve isn't that strong. So it doesn't require like extra effort to get the water milk out. For me, it's the perfect cup. Okay. There are so many. All right. We'll link those cups.
00:37:35
Speaker
How do I work on weaning with a 12 month old who's addicted to nursing? Yeah, this one's tough there. And Solid Stars does have a really good guide. I think the gist of it is there are two methods you could decide what's right for you, like starting by limiting the time of day, the times of days that you nurse, or by the length of each nursing session. Like a lot of people end up keeping the bedtime one for last,
00:38:05
Speaker
to be the last that you drop. You could work on maybe the first one, just dropping the middle of the day ones. You can cut back on the time or just cold turkey. It's not time for that right now, but here's some. Make sure they're hydrated because they're looking for either hydration or affection. That's not available right now, but here's water and we can have some cuddles.
00:38:29
Speaker
Yeah. Sorry. I didn't have to do this because Louisa stopped. Like I wanted to keep going, but she was like, Oh then. Yeah. Oh, I know. I was thinking like I, I mean, I stopped nursing really early, but it's gotta be, I see how people get into the thing where they're like nursing for two years or three years because that's okay. That they have as they get older is so strong. And if they really want to nurse, like it'll be hard to say. It's totally okay to continue nursing for comfort.
00:38:58
Speaker
It's only a problem if it's like interfering with their ability to, they're not hungry during meals and they're not supplying solid foods. But you know, like comfort nursing throughout the day or before bed is totally fine if they're still eating a variety of foods and meals. Okay, related, someone asked, do I need to replace breast milk with whole milk while eating? No, you don't. You can, but you can, the babies can get calcium and vitamin D and stuff from a variety of other things.
00:39:28
Speaker
You don't have to replace it with milk. They can have yogurt and cheese or just like a variety of vegetables, legumes. It doesn't have to be in milk. TJ survives on dairy. He's a dairy boy. Okay. Brandon hates milk, so. I got him with a sweet potato boy. Oh, he likes sweet potatoes too. He is. Oh yeah, that's so funny. You are what you eat. He's a cheesy sweet potato. Okay.
00:39:55
Speaker
Is there a nutrition group that's most important for toddlers? Is there a food group that should be a priority? When you're starting to introduce salads, I guess the priority is iron. But for toddlers, when you're thinking about nutrition, try not to get caught up in the macro or the micronutrients. As long as you're offering balanced whole foods, don't worry about the content of each meal. In general, though, the most common
00:40:24
Speaker
nutritional deficiency around the world in children is anemia. So if you're worried about one thing, you can focus on making sure they have enough iron. Which is like green things, right? It could be from meat. Red meat is a really good source or different types of chicken and fish and then nuts and legumes and variety of vegetables.
00:40:49
Speaker
I have a cute thing. Oatmeal, peanut butter, spinach, kidney beans, all these things. And every single meat and eggs and all that. So, Iron, if you needed to focus on one. Speaking of the steak dinner.
00:41:06
Speaker
I'm going to be pissed when he throws steak on the floor. So a common question was about the throwing of the food on the floor.
Managing Mealtime Challenges and Resistance
00:41:15
Speaker
That is so frustrating. How do you handle that? And is that just something we have to grow to accept?
00:41:23
Speaker
No, you shouldn't. So you can enforce the boundaries of what meal time is to be a polite human. I think that's pretty disrespectful if you made a nice steak and I threw it on the floor. It makes me mad. Yeah. With Louisa, I sort of ignored it and then it passed. But you can totally say, oh, throwing means the meal is over. But I know you said you've tried that. So you can start to think about, why is he throwing? Is it because he's not hungry when he gets to the table? Is it because?
00:41:53
Speaker
It's that it is the end of a meal. Is it because you've reacted in the past and laughed or gotten really mad, which is also a form of, you know, attention that they might like. Ultimately you don't have to put up with rowing. So does that just look like ending the meal? Like that's what you do. Yeah. Just in a very, very calm way. Like no big reactions. You're telling me the meal is over. Let's clean up and then move on to something else.
00:42:17
Speaker
If they say they're hungry in a half an hour or something, you can, if you want, offer the same meal. And if they don't eat it.
00:42:25
Speaker
You're like, OK, this is over, too. OK. We're going to eat again. Oh, my word. OK. This is scary, but it's good to know. It's like we all just have to grow some balls. We're supposed to come down and grow some balls. This is not going to work perfectly. You can sort of just see, experiment, see what works. But give each method you're trying a few days to just be consistent or see what happens. Couple more.
00:42:51
Speaker
what to do if my toddler does not want to sit in the high chair and tries to climb out and it's just like not wanting to be still and it's inhibiting the eating. Yeah. So being still is really important just from a safety perspective. So if they, if like the high chair at the table, isn't working, change things up and do make sure they're seated. But like, you know, you can eat on the floor at the coffee table or just on the floor, like a picnic.
00:43:21
Speaker
It would be great if they had a chair to sit in to just encourage them to be still, but if they need to, they can also stand at the table. They shouldn't be running around or walking around while eating. Okay, so like no cup of food to go? No. I would say try all these different things first. Try having them in your lap. Try eating on the floor, having a picnic, eat outside. You can find what seems fun and exciting for them, but I would hold the boundary of
00:43:51
Speaker
Like food stays at the table. You don't have to, if you want to take a break, go take a break. You can run around for five. Um, that's what you did, right? Candace food at the table that you were running around. Yeah. That's what, that's what I think. Yeah. Yeah. The thing that scares me most about, um, you know, safe swallowing and choking is like attention is so important. I participated in some studies in grad school where.
00:44:20
Speaker
They're like blowing stuff that would make you cough into your mouth and then you cough. But if you're like doing math problems or talking to somebody, you like inhale it. Well, that's crazy. Yeah. So they're like running around playing and like eating. You're just so much more likely to choke. I think that's when choking really happens.
00:44:41
Speaker
Dang, that's good to know. I feel like this is good to teach them for restaurants as well. Yeah, like Louisa needs restaurant breaks in the middle. We'll just take a walk, you know, even if the food's out. You can follow God if you're saying that they need to move, you can give them space to move. Okay. All right. This is kind of a high level one, but I think it's a good one to wrap up on how to handle the world's pickiest child.
00:45:08
Speaker
If they're already strong and picky eating habits, it can be hard, but you meet them where they are and you start somewhere. First, you want to make sure it's not a clinical problem that you need to see a feeding therapist about or a gastro doctor. So if they're still growing and they have enough energy, you can just start small.
00:45:31
Speaker
with, you can continue to offer. So every meal has something that they're really comfortable with. You keep exposing them to things you, even if you know or think they don't want them. So I remember one of the questions was like, okay, we'll never eat broccoli. Just keep offering it. Use it the next day. Is there like a magic number of times or just keep on writing? Thousands of times. I mean, just don't ever give up.
00:45:54
Speaker
If it's a food that sounds like the main. Some kids become so picky that they don't want to see the food or they don't want it to be on their plate or touching other foods. You want to prevent that level of illness. But if you're there, it could be outside of mealtimes playing with the food that they hate, just feeding mom or feeding Elmo. It depends where you are. Just try to meet them wherever they are and start with one small thing.
00:46:23
Speaker
Yeah. I've been working on that for like a week and see how it goes. Reach out for help if you need it. Yeah. I mean, you are available to help people with their like specific needs.
Resources and Support for Feeding Challenges
00:46:35
Speaker
Um, what does it look like if somebody wanted to reach out and engage with you, Beth Ann, to like learn more about how you help families and just like really dig in deep with what they're dealing with?
00:46:48
Speaker
Yeah. So I'm licensed in the state of New York and Connecticut for like feeding therapy, which I consider is when there's a child who has like a diagnosed or, you know, a disorder or extreme picky eating. But I'm happy to do parent coaching or like troubleshooting kind of with anyone. So it would look like whatever you need.
00:47:09
Speaker
Sometimes I can do a Zoom session just to see what meal times look for you. And I might point out like, oh, they're not really supported in their high chair. Let's fix that. Or I can sort of come up with a plan depending on what you need to wean off.
00:47:23
Speaker
milk or bottles. Um, it could be like just text message support. So I'm really flexible. Yeah. I feel like the, like basically having a partner in it, that's not your husband could be super valuable. Just somebody to like lean on and ask questions to and basically get moral support because this all sounds like pretty simple. You know, it's like stay consistent, try these main steps, but in practice I can imagine
00:47:53
Speaker
It's hard. You need like a little bit of support. So I think that that's like a really valuable resource to have. Yeah, I think so too. What is the best way for people to find you Beth Ann? I have a website www.verbalist-slp.com. I also, yeah, that's the best way. And you can eat my emails there. It's like, it's ba at verbalist.com.
00:48:18
Speaker
We'll link it. We'll link it. It's easier that way. Can you also talk a little bit about it on your Instagram? In the preparation for this podcast, I made a verbalist Instagram
00:48:34
Speaker
Hopefully I'll put more contact on there too, but yeah, it's verbalist.slp on Instagram. Verbalist.slp. We're about to blow you up. Awesome.
00:48:48
Speaker
I feel a rejuvenated sense of purpose around this. I do. I have a project or I don't know, a new outlook where it sounds like everyone's going through it and it's okay to start over. I'm looking forward to trying this. I'll say, again, Solid Starts is my favorite resource. What's so valuable is they're started by a mom who
00:49:17
Speaker
went through extreme picky eating with her first child and then gathered like the best experts to learn all she could about preventing picky eating. And they have so many videos on like what's normal, what's not normal. This baby's ready for salads because of these reasons and this baby's not because of this. Or here's what gagging looks like. We just have so much content. They're free on the Instagram. The app is great. And then the paid content if you want. And I have nothing to gain from that at all. I just love them.
00:49:47
Speaker
Yeah, they're great. I just, I feel like I used them a lot for when I was introducing solids and now that he's older and I'm just dealing with the pickiness, but solid starts verbalist.slp on Instagram. Thank you so much for helping us out, Beth Ann. And hopefully, um, yeah, listen to this after you listen to our bitch fest, and this will actually give you some practical advice and
00:50:16
Speaker
Maybe like bring the cortisol down a little bit and help me remember that. I hope it's helpful. Yeah.
00:50:22
Speaker
For sure. Thank you so much. And we hope you feel great. You are due in December. So good luck with that. Thank you. And we'll see you on the Instagrams. See you. Thank you so much for being a part of our mom group chat. New episodes drop every Tuesday. And don't forget, the group chat is blowing up on our Instagram page. So make sure you're following along over there. All right, got to go. My toddler just put something in her mouth.