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EP 137: Living Your Most Authentic Life with Suzy Welch
343 Plays3 hours ago
This week we’re joined by Suzy Welch—3x New York Times bestselling author and expert on clarity and decision-making—and we take everything she teaches and run it through the lens of motherhood. Because let’s be honest… becoming a mom can completely shake your sense of identity.
We dive into values—what they actually are, how to define them, and why so many moms feel off when they’re not living in alignment with them. This conversation is for anyone who feels like they’ve lost a piece of themselves and wants a way to reconnect, make more aligned decisions, and create a life that actually feels good.
💬 In this episode:
- What values are and why they matter
- Why motherhood can leave you feeling disconnected from yourself
- How to define your own values
- Using your values to guide decisions and daily life
- Creating alignment in a full, busy season
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Buy her bestselling book, "Becoming You", here: https://amzn.to/4bfiWG2
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Transcript
Introduction and Guest Introduction
Experiencing Snowstorms in New York
00:00:07
Speaker
There's no right way to do it.
00:00:12
Speaker
Oh, we're going to get into it. What up, moms? My name is Candice, and I am here with my best friend, Whitney, and an amazing, incredible special guest. This is such a pinch me moment for us here at Mom Group Chat. I am joined with Susie Welsh, bestselling author, professor, journalist. I mean, your resume is truly so impressive. We're going to get into it. But you are the expert in becoming your authentic self, finding your purpose. I'm so, so, so excited to have you on the show. and to have you here to chat with us. So welcome, Susie.
00:00:44
Speaker
Well, it's my honor and my pleasure. So thank you so much for having me. ah Are you safe in New York there with the snowstorm? I know that you guys are dealing with some crazy weather.
Camaraderie During Snowstorms
00:00:54
Speaker
Yeah. No, I mean, I went out in the snow yesterday because I think you got to live it a little bit. And I went out and i it's it was a it was a big storm. I mean, there's no getting around it. But New York's back. I mean, today, the day after, everybody's out there on the subway. It's for me.
00:01:09
Speaker
you know indomitable my friend my best friends live in providence and they have a one-year-old and so i was like how many esters tall is the snow like yeah put her out there let me let me see and compare and i mean it was up to here for her and it was so cute yeah um and it looked really fun i was like these are the little videos like they're gonna have forever and remember and it's gonna be like so ah nostalgic Providence really got it. Providence really got it. So I lived there for three years and um I never got an epic blizzard when I lived there. So i was like, ooh, I missed it. Yeah. Yeah.
00:01:44
Speaker
I will never forget when I first moved to New York City and I had moved there in February. Okay. And i it was obviously snowy and like midwinter. And I remember asking my friends who had lived there years at this point. And I asked them, like, how long is this going to go on? And they were like, oh, probably through April. yeah And I was shocked. I mean, I'm a born and raised Florida girl. OK, was like, wait a minute. You're telling me we're not going to have spring break weather here like very soon?
00:02:13
Speaker
i don't understand. i know. it And yet, once you've lived through a snowstorm and the drama of it, and then you go and live someplace where there are not snowstorms, and you see the snowstorm, you are – I think that there's kind of snowstorm envy. I mean, I called friend yesterday in Florida, and he said, oh, I'm so glad I'm in Florida. I said, are you?
00:02:32
Speaker
aren't you kind of looking at it, kind of wishing you were here? And he said, okay, fine. Maybe for the first day. I think there's like, there's nostalgia for snowstorms if you've lived in them because they bring everybody together. Yesterday I went out because I went to the gym. I'm trying to hold back the years here. And I went to the gym regardless of the snowstorm and like everyone was being so friendly to each other. Hey, don't slip, you know, be careful. Good morning. and i wass like, oh, those are New Yorkers. So I think kind of brings out the best in people and you get this feeling of camaraderie and Anyway, i it will it will fade soon enough. But you I know we can have another snowstorm.
00:03:03
Speaker
We could. Yes. april April's not here yet. Yeah, it's true. You're still in the thick of it up in New York. Well, we have a lot of Northeast listeners here at Mom Group Chat.
00:03:15
Speaker
And I can tell you that, and from being inside of our you know group chats of due date groups and all of that, that ah snow day is a feared word amongst moms. Those are the two most feared words in a mother's vocabulary.
00:03:31
Speaker
Snow day. yeahp That's it. I mean, I have four children and I remember, and I i worked, um and so but it's complicated for any mother. And I hear the words, you know there's going to be snow day and the kids are going, yay. And you're so crying softly into your hands in the closet, okay? Because you know maybe you have to go in or you know you're going to have meetings anyway. And you' all you can picture is them staring at you
Susie's Family and Authentic Self Methodology
00:03:53
Speaker
and also sort of...
00:03:53
Speaker
ah talk And look, you want to enjoy it with them. You want to go out and make the snowman. And, and, and yet, and yet, you know, it's go to be one of those days. And there's so many of those days where you have to be two people at the exact same time. And, you know, that's, that's heroic. I was going to say, and that's motherhood for you. The show must go on. i know.
00:04:14
Speaker
so ah Well, like I said, we are so, so happy to have you here. Could you give us a little bit of an intro to you and who you are um Tell us about your family and yeah, just just give our listeners a little bit of ah of an intro.
00:04:29
Speaker
I have to tell you the most important thing, really the only thing you need to know about me is that I am Lirial's grandmother. Okay. So I've got a, you know, ah that I was, i'm ah I'm a professor at NYU Stern School of Business. I teach a class. I teach two classes, but the main class I teach is called Becoming You. It's a methodology about figuring out what to do with your life, no matter where you are in it. I mean, it's used by students, but it's used by women reentering the workforce. It's used by working mothers. It's used by people who are going, who are retiring, who are trying to figure out what to do in their next stage
Grandparenting vs Parenting Experiences
00:04:59
Speaker
of life. And it's a methodology. It excavates a bunch of information about your values, which almost no one really knows their values. We can talk about that if you want. And your aptitudes and your economically viable interests. It takes all that data and it says, guess what?
00:05:11
Speaker
here's what you were meant to do. And so it's a process that tends to be very uplifting and liberating for people because there's a lot of noise in the world telling you what you can and can't do. And this is kind it's a scientifically validated process. And about 500,000 people have used it at this point, which is very exciting. Amazing. um But I'm also a mother of four. Now, my kids are in their 30s. And but I, you know, they the sort of a dirty little secret is that you think your kids are going to go away one day and you're going but they never go away. i mean, they my kids are in. a Why is it that my kids are in their 30s and they need to call me to ask me? if blue goes with black. I mean, like 36 years old, i'm you would think they would know, right? I know it is a good question. And by the way, it does. Okay. Let's just clear that up for people everywhere. And so I've got four kids, three of them are married. And, and one, my oldest son son has two children. And of course I love my little grandson, but he's still kind of pre-verbal and I'm fixated on my three-year-old granddaughter. And I'll tell you, I, had a complicated relationship with motherhood. And then I was a working mom and I loved my work and I love my kids, but I went through sort of 20 something years where i suited up every single day and, and fought the fight about how that's hard. They did grow up and go away and things got a lot, technically got a lot easier, but I am doing a complete redo with my granddaughter Lirial because I get to be like the grandmother who just can and does do it all for her. And then
00:06:32
Speaker
And I just have an unbelievably unique relationship with which I never thought I'd have. And I kind of missed it with my own kids, to be honest, because I yeah i didn't i I was four kids and I was working full time. And with Lirial, I talked to her every single day and I have this intimacy with her. And I thought, oh, wow, did I maybe miss this? Maybe I did. It's too late now, but I can redo it all with her. So, yeah, I'm kind of reliving motherhood again. i mean, obviously, I'm not the mother. i don't.
00:06:59
Speaker
my My daughter-in-law is the greatest mother I've ever seen with my two eyes. And so I'm happy to not be the mother because she's got a great mom. But I can do something different as a grandmother. Totally. It's a new it's like a gift. it's It's a redo. That's amazing. I'm watching it with my mom and my two little girls. It's so amazing to watch. And my mom says the same thing. it's's You kind of treat them a little different because you know that you get to give them back too.
00:07:25
Speaker
the parents. yeah And so you're doing the spoiling, you're letting them stay up late. Like she said, it's like the greatest joy on earth is being a grandmother. i mean, it is. If I wish I had known when it was really hard, I wish I'd known a lot of things when it was really hard. I wish I had, like, I wish I had realized that it was all going to be worth it. It would have been easier if I had known, cause it is. Um, yeah and, but a lot of days you think this is really hard and what do I get for it? But it, it, it works out so well, but I would say that
Discussing Unique Names and Family Resemblances
00:07:53
Speaker
um One of the things that you get is this this, you know, you're staring into your grandchild's face and and knowing they think you can do no wrong.
00:08:02
Speaker
And it's it's a beautiful thing. And I love her name. Is that front like a family name? No, it's a science fiction name. They love science fiction, the two of them. One of the first things they ever bonded over was like a science fiction movie um on their first date.
00:08:16
Speaker
She said something about a science fiction um ah book, and he actually thought to himself, this is the woman I will marry. And he did. And so they chose this name, Lyriel. I'm not going to lie to you, the first six months I had to say Lyriel rhymes with cereal every single time I said it because i couldn't remember. metaphormo how to say it. But now I know it's Liriel. Liriel Rhiannon is her name. now um so here's a crazy thing. That's beautiful. She's going to be famous, like just with her. Yeah. loan She's already famous in my mind. But I have to tell you a crazy thing. And a crazy thing I want to just say to new moms or young moms, um a crazy thing happened.
00:08:51
Speaker
She is identical physically to my son when he was little. And I have this, I had an incredible relationship with it when him when he was little. He was my first child. He was complicated. He was blonde and blue eyed. I'm dark. i have dark hair and dark eyes, but he was blonde, blue eyed, looked like his dad.
00:09:10
Speaker
And I remember as he grew out of his ah little babyhood and then into toddlerhood, and then he became a young man, and then he became a full grown man. um You kind of mourn when each phase passes like, oh my God, I'll never see this little child again. It's goodbye to this toddler goodbye to this baby whose face I've looked into and then early on like sort of when Lirial was three months I was holding her and I looked down at her and I was looking into Roscoe's face again and I I just tears just poured out of me and I said I thought I'd never see you again cry I know and was like he's he's back and I actually did a
Recognizing Children as Unique Individuals
00:09:50
Speaker
funny thing. I found all these pictures of Roscoe when he was ah four and five months old and me with Roscoe. And then the next time I was there, I posed um her in all those poses exactly with me. And I put the pictures next to each other of me holding Roscoe doing this. And I and people were like, this is the same child. And I was like, no, this is what I mean.
00:10:10
Speaker
I'm seeing him again. Not here. The interesting thing that we cannot forget is they're totally different people. She's different. She's unique. She's her own person. Our job as mothers is to learn who our children are. And I would say I did. I made every mistake a mother could make. I I'm a totally normal mother in that you learn the hard way and all those other things. But the one thing, if I look back and say. Why did it all work out?
00:10:34
Speaker
You know, I'm best friends with my kids, all four of them, really, truly best friends. Talk each them every day. Why? What can possibly explain it, given the fact that I also made so many mistakes? And the answer is that for some reason early on,
00:10:46
Speaker
I conceived of my job as mother with them as figuring out who they were and helping them live into that. And I'm told by people that that's not always how we do it. And like your children are not a flawed version of you.
00:10:59
Speaker
They are. They're totally different selves. And so... um I, I now I'm in the, so I, I don't expect her to be anything like him. Maybe she will be a little bit. I, I doubt it. yeah Do I secretly hope she'll be like me? Of course I do. Cause I didn't get any of my kids like me. but You know, maybe she's going to be a little Susie. That would be divine. But I would say, cause I'll get her so early. Like, otherwise you have to write learn your children and then endeavor to understand them.
00:11:23
Speaker
Cause they're not you. Yeah. Yeah. Um, my mom has a similar experience. So my daughter is literally copy and paste of me as a child. Like the, whenever I show people pictures, they're like, no way that looks just like Alice. And I'm like, I know. And my mom was also a working mom and,
00:11:44
Speaker
I was like very stressed growing up. We ah like, I, I remember her being, i don't want to say absent, but I mean at moments, you know, because she was working and not available. That was me. yeah Yeah. And that's, and that's just how it was to be honest. It never affected me that much as a child. Like I knew she loved me and I knew she, you know, Um, ah but it's so interesting to watch her with my daughter. Now she, my mom pretty much takes care of them full time, um while I work and she's really getting to do it over. And my mom says all the time, it's so, she was like, she honestly says it's creepy sometimes. Cause I feel like I'm back with mini Candace. Like yeah we, so she was like, it's such a special experience. Candace, does she act like you as well as look like you?
00:12:34
Speaker
Yes, very similar. Yeah. Oh, okay. Okay. She's yeah yeah all girl, very girly girl, sings, loves Frozen. Like, yes, I would say she's very much like you. Yeah. ros We're very similar. Loves makeup. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's been a real learning experience for um my son and daughter-in-law in that they're – ah they're mainers, they're hikers, they're outdoors people, they're, you know, they're all these different kind of stuff. And of course they got the daughter who will not take off her tutu or her princess outfit and walks around in a tiara. And I love the fact that they look at her and they go, okay, well, this was not what we were bargaining for, but there she is. um And ah you know, this kind of acceptance of just, you got to take them as they are and learn they are. And man, you do not want to fight with that. I would love either. Yeah, exactly. I want to dive into kind of the process of becoming you and this like methodology that you've created.
Identity Challenges and 'Becoming You' Methodology
00:13:37
Speaker
i think that something I really struggled with
00:13:41
Speaker
transitioning into motherhood is that like identity shift of, I've said this on this podcast many times, but the transition to motherhood was really difficult for me. And I i always say like, I almost felt like I wasn't the main character of my life anymore. And I really struggled with that journey back to,
00:14:03
Speaker
like remembering that I was the main character and maybe in a different way. But um so I'm interested to hear about how your journey with motherhood and um I would say specifically early motherhood, how that fed into this methodology of becoming you. I mean, there would be no Becoming You without my years as a mother, OK? I have to just start by telling you that I teach Becoming You at NYU, but I also teach it in open enrollment. And people come from all around the world, from all walks of life, to take it. And one time I was teaching it to a group of about 200 people. And there's a point in the methodology where you have to write down some stuff. And um and it's pretty emotional because you're writing some stuff down around your identity. And I looked over to one corner of the room, and there was one student who had her arms wrapped around another student who was heaving with sobs. And I knew they didn't come in together. So this was like a stranger who was who was clearly taking pity on another class and another student. They were both yeah yeah in both women in their forties.
00:15:02
Speaker
and um And she was comforting her. And I walked over and i said, do you want to leave? And she said, you know i said, feel free to leave the room and get your composure back. And she said, no, I want to stay. And and then she looked at me with the tears streaming down her face. And she said,
00:15:16
Speaker
Why is it I can't remember who I am aside from my children? And look, this is the this is ah um the battle in a way or the or the moment that all of us face as we transition yeah from people who are totally you know individuals.
00:15:32
Speaker
into motherhood. I almost kind of envy the people who become mothers at 16 because they haven't even figured out who they are anyway. It's so true. Yeah. The child comes along and they're like, whatever, I wasn't formed anyway. But for those of us who had a full blown identity before had our kids, then this moment comes and you don't know where they late leave off and where you start. And if you're nursing, it's even a kind of a physical thing. I mean, you're actually physically attached. Yeah.
00:15:58
Speaker
And meanwhile, you know, what's going on sometimes it is that your partner is like, wait a minute, I like the part of you where, you know, you can be mother over here for them. But what about the part of you that was fully independent? That was my partner. I miss that person, too. And you're having all sorts of mixed up feelings. Like one part of you is like, I was born to do this. I there's a reason the baby came out of me. There's a reason I'm nursing the baby. I I don't want to be separate from this child anymore. I fully embrace this new identity. It feels like the culmination of everything I've been preparing to do. And then there's a piece of you and it can happen within the same 30 second stretch. I mean, all of these emotions can occur in one minute's time. OK, or they have seasons or whatever. But you are a boiling cauldron of all of these emotions. And then there's another part of you that was like, I miss me.
00:16:42
Speaker
i I miss me. I miss who I was. I miss my independence. I miss my ability to answer a question without filtering it through how it's going to affect the children. Or I yeah i just, and that, all that stuff goes on. And frankly, it goes on for 20 something straight years, because why, especially if you're working, okay? And of course, this can happen to you even if you're not working, but um there's the children or the child and that little being needs and wants you 24 seven. They want you heart,
00:17:11
Speaker
mind, soul, physically, logistically, emotionally, they want your full i have availability.
Parenting Values and Personal Identity
00:17:19
Speaker
yeah yeah And then if you work, your job wants that too. Okay, your boss and your coworkers, they want full availability. Then there's a partner who often wants full availability, mind, body, and soul, everything. And then there's the old you that also wants you back. Okay. And this goes on all at the same time for about two decades. Why?
00:17:44
Speaker
The answer is biology, because it is in those years from your twenties to your forties, that's when you have your babies and that's when your career is kind of accelerating. And that's when your partner is kind of, when you have a relationship that has sexual aspects to it and all of this stuff is all happening at the same time. And even though we imagine that we're fully formed at age 40, You know, 22, we're not. It's really from our twenty s to our mid 40s that we are solidifying our sense of identity. And all of that stuff and happens and women are going through it. And yet you are getting up every single morning, suiting up and trying to face the world as a the same person and be emotionally sound and regulated.
00:18:22
Speaker
It's. ah it's a miraculous thing that we all make it out alive. I feel like you wrap this up so amazing and how like probably every mother feels like yeah you articulated it so well. on And so do you see, i guess, mostly in your class, I mean, is it men and women? And then also like, do you see, I feel like ah there's a big shift when the kids are really little. Like I felt this way very hard in the very beginning till about Now, I feel like i we talk about all the time how i i feel like I got myself back. But do you see this happening a lot as the kids are older and they start they move away to college and the moms are like, what do I even do anymore? Okay. So it happens to you at every phase. It happens to you when they're infants because they're physically needing you so much. Then toddlers because their identity starts to merge. And you're like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. whoa whoa
00:19:14
Speaker
Like there's another identity that is totally linked to me and I will never be separate from that little person's identity. How does it relate to my identity? The hardest thing we grapple with is when we discover our children are different than us. Like it is not us. Okay. Then they become little people who start having friends and secrets from you. And that is starts off a whole nother thing. And it goes all the way through when they're in high school, when they really start asserting their identity and you have to decide whether you're a friend or a parent.
00:19:40
Speaker
That's a huge moment. um i am I come from Sicilian stock and I have i practiced Sicilian parenting. I tell my children all the time, I don't want to be your friend. I'm not your friend. I'm your mother. And I i was super strict. I say that all the time. I'm super strict. I have to say they've all thanked me for it. But whatever, I know there's different types of parenting now. and um And then they become adults.
00:20:02
Speaker
And you think, oh, this is going to work itself out. But like, I've had some unbelievable issues with my adult children around what? Around the expression of values. um And they have different values than I do. And luckily, we have the language of Becoming You, which has a language around values, which allows us to talk about values without acrimony or judgment, which is one of the greatest uses when mothers take Becoming You. And we have a huge component of people who are mothers, At at every stage who come out saying thank you for giving the language to me that I can talk to my kids about values. Because when we fight with our kids and when we fight with our partners, frankly, it's around values. So you had asked earlier about the methodology itself. So let me just talk a little bit about that. okay yeah Walk us through it.
00:20:42
Speaker
The methodology is based on the premise that what you were meant to do in life, your purpose is at the intersection of your values, your aptitudes, and your economically viable interests. So let's start with the last one. Economically viable interest is pretty straightforward. It's like what you like to do with your time that's also ah that also pays you as much as you want and need to be paid. That, frankly, can be motherhood full on. And I've definitely had people go through the process and say,
00:21:08
Speaker
The only thing i really want to do is be a mother. Let me just figure out, let me use this methodology or a parent. Let me use this methodology to figure out the best ways to do that and to ah find a way to explain it to people that that's a narrative that I feel really confident and comfortable. So really the process gives them conviction. But for other people that that, you know, economically viable interest is everything from sort of like coding to writing a book or whatever. But you've got to get clear on what you can do that pays you what you want. Now then aptitudes, that's a whole area of study where like, what are you actually good at?
00:21:41
Speaker
And we look at that from a through a cognitive lens, like are you a generalist or a specialist? Are you a future focus or a present focus? Are you an idea brainstormer or an idea processor? We test for those. Those are set by the time you're age 15. We do a couple of tests and we find out. We also look really hard at what your personality is because what you should be doing in this world I mean, to separate that from your personality is like cuckoo bananas to me. It's like you're good at some things because your personality and you're bad at some things because your personality, you know, if you're an introvert and a deep melancholy thinker and there's personality types like that, then, you know become a poet, not a waitress. Okay. It's just, you know, there's, there's personality stuff. So we test for that, but
00:22:20
Speaker
The hardest part of the process is helping people understand what their values are. And the reason for that is that we're never really taught what values are in the first place. like you can go to high school and you can learn how to calculate the volume volume of a cylinder and you can learn the freaking kings of Mesopotamia, but you will not learn what a value is and what yours are.
00:22:41
Speaker
And then- Yeah, I was gonna say, or if you're like me, who I went to Catholic school and I feel like you're just told what your values should be- Yes. Rather than what they are or what they are. But here's the thing, is what you're told is not values at all. You're told virtues.
00:22:56
Speaker
And virtues and values are different. And the problem is we don't have this conversation openly. Virtues are social constructs that everybody agrees are good. And they're like, you know, I don't want to debate with anybody what their virtues are. We all believe honesty is right. Fairness is right. Goodness to others is right. i mean, like, I don't want to have anything to do with somebody who doesn't like kindness. You know those are virtues, respect, virtue. Okay.
00:23:20
Speaker
Values are choices about how we decide to organize our lives. And if you're not hurting anybody with your values, your values are your values. Let's take the value of scope. There's 16 values, by the way.
00:23:31
Speaker
The value of scope is how big a life you want or how small a life you want. Neither is right or wrong. You could want a big, exciting, most interesting life in the world, a lot of travel, a lot of stimulation, a lot of parties, okay? Or you could like a life, you could desire a life that ah has a lot of predictability, has high psychological safety. You know, there's a whole TikTok vertical about this.
00:23:55
Speaker
I like my little life, okay? english Yeah, that's so true. All right? And that's a value. OK, that's not a virtue, because is it right or wrong to have a big life or a small life?
00:24:06
Speaker
It's not right or wrong. It's only right or wrong for you. and so the values are sort of now some of them people get very uptight because family centrism is a value.
00:24:16
Speaker
It's not a virtue because not everybody should have children and not everybody wants children. How much you want to make family the organizing principle of your life is a choice. And we shouldn't be judging people about what they choose.
00:24:30
Speaker
i mean, if somebody says, i don't want to have children, I don't think I'll be a good mother, or I only want one child because I want to go to back back to work sooner and And we need financial security of that. And um I don't think I could handle more. I you know um i feel like this is the max, for say, for my anxiety or whatever's going on in your life. Should we judge that person?
00:24:49
Speaker
Or should we say, it's fine for you to have that level of family centrism? My level of family centrism is higher, and it's affected me in these ways. No better, no worse. And I think that another, you know, there's all these lightning rod values. Okay, we have a value. It's called we use a Greek word for it because we don't want everyone's head to explode. is We call it eudaimonia.
00:25:10
Speaker
That's the Greek word for flourishing. But actually, it means self care. All right. And people have different, a different level of how much self care they want to organize their life around. There are people who wake up in the morning and the day is organized or they desire their day to be organized around different elements of self care, taking care of themselves, feeling good about themselves. I mean, ah generationally, this is the number one value for Gen Z. It it is Yeah. And I don't judge them. It's my 15th out of 16th value.
00:25:40
Speaker
That's my personality. That's a lot of different things form that. And I don't judge them for having higher eudaimonia than me. Maybe they're right and I'm wrong, but I love my life and they love their lives. So let's just not judge each other, but let's understand each other around values. Now, what happens when you become a mom is that the world starts to tell you what values you should have.
00:26:01
Speaker
And then you think, wait, wait, wait, I don't know if that's my value, but the world's telling me because the world has a lot of opinions about how we behave around around our children and how we raise our children. And then we discover as the kids get older, wait, these are my values.
00:26:17
Speaker
And it appears that my child is going to develop different values than me around, for instance, the big one is like achievement. You know, my kid is not that interested in being a CEO, right? Jack and I, my husband and i my late husband and i had to grapple with the fact that Jack and I both had very high achievement as a value.
00:26:34
Speaker
We were very interested in conventional and traditional success. He was a CEO. I wanted to be a big professor, blah, blah, blah. And none of our kids presented with achievement as their top value.
00:26:45
Speaker
Now they have four children and they have four different levels of it. And we could have gotten very judgy about this, but instead we said to them, like, by the way, a achievement it was one of our top values. It appears it's not one of your top values.
00:26:57
Speaker
um There are consequences for that. You may never have what we had financially if this is not. And they're like, yeah, we get it. We get the calculus. And we i mean, this is the reason why we i've just never fought about it.
00:27:09
Speaker
We understood who they were. We helped them define who they were. We helped them understand the consequences of it. And so I think part of what we do as parents is we talk to kids about values, presuming they may or may not have ours virtues.
00:27:21
Speaker
are a totally different thing. I was in my his faces. I was up in their grills about character every minute of every day. That's not negotiable. You never bully. You never talk a certain way to a teacher. i That was not a choice.
00:27:36
Speaker
I think we have to be very clear about the difference. I want to transition a little bit because a lot of your work and a lot of – I've listened to you on dozens of podcasts and ah on your Instagram.
00:27:48
Speaker
And you talk a lot about becoming your authentic self. right Can you tell us about what does that actually look
Balancing Authenticity and Motherhood
00:27:55
Speaker
like? And maybe what does that actually look like as a mom? Yeah.
00:28:00
Speaker
ah It's complicated when you're a mom, right? because you have ah Because that little phrase about values, if you're not hurting anybody, means a lot. Okay, so living your values. So what actually it means is ah you're authentically yourself when you are living at the intersection of your values and your aptitudes and your interests. And when people ask me what it feels like, I say, you feel exquisitely alive.
00:28:20
Speaker
That's how I feel. I finally got there at age 60. I finally found my purpose and was living it fully. And every single day I wake up and I think this is the best day of my life. That's what it feels like. It's very good. I want it for everybody. and One of the great things about it is when you're in that place, you spread the joy. You don't keep it to yourself. A very happy, authentic person typically is filled with ah you know positivity and spreads it all around. And the miserable people of the world are are not doing it or they're spreading their misery. I would like to flip that narrative. So yeah I think for a mom, it's complicated because you have so many constraints. Yeah. Because those little people may impinge on you living your values, impinge on you living your aptitudes, because you can't express them because of what you've decided is with your partner about how you're going to raise the kids and may impinge. So there is some on your economically viable interests.
00:29:14
Speaker
With moms, um it you have to make a decision about whether you're going to every single day get up and try to um relitigate the balance that you have are going for on a temporary basis, or if you're going to deprioritize some values or not. My sisters and I, we all had very similar educations, raised in the same house. We all had our kids right around the same time. And ah there was a moment of truth where they decided to stop working and I decided to stay working.
00:29:40
Speaker
And I remember both of my sisters saying to me, we can't believe you're doing this, Susie. I cannot believe you're going to, you know, put the kids with a, I got a nanny but because I had kids and it was just made more sense financially that way. And I, we can't believe you're doing that. And they, you know, you're going to screw up your kids so badly. Your, your kids going to hate you. Your kids are going And I said to them, until there is actual proof that um ah an unhappy mother um leads to happy children, I'm going to stick with my plan. Because i believe i had a I didn't have proof of it, but I felt the greatest gift I could give my kids was my own happiness. I i said to them, because an unhappy mother makes children so... freaking miserable. They ache for their mother. And i I said to my kids, I'm going to spend my entire life helping you be the best, most happy version of yourself. Will you help me back? And they bought in. They said, yeah.
00:30:33
Speaker
And so we did that. We helped each other. yeah How long have you been, um i guess, instilling these values with your kids? Like, have you kind of lived this life since they were little or did this come later?
00:30:47
Speaker
came early. It came early because I found it was so unbelievably painful and unsustainable to lie to them about who I was and what I wanted. And I felt like I could do it. I mean, i believe if I thought I was going to be a bad mom, I wouldn't have done it. But I felt I could be a really good mom and I could work. And I, at first, I did the really hard and I'm going to say not well advised thing, which is I kind of lied to them. And I basically said to them, I have to work. ah Mommy has to do this. And the truth was, I didn't have to work as much as I was working. But I i was working that much because A, I loved it. But also I felt, look, one day they're going to go away and I'm going to still be here. And that on ramp looks really scary to me. I'd seen women try to negotiate it. And I thought I can't get off this.
00:31:31
Speaker
And I was a single mom, by the way, at this point, my first marriage had ended. And so I was it was just me with the kids. um And i I, understood what I was facing and do so I started I would say
00:31:44
Speaker
They were probably between five and 10. My kids are, I had four kids in five years, so they were very close together. And so I think that they were probably between five and 10. And I just started this with them. I said, i remember saying to them, the scariest, most liberating thing I ever said to my kids was, I love work.
00:32:00
Speaker
I love my work. I love you. I give you my kidney. I care about you. I think about you every minute of every day. I also love my work and it makes me happy. It was so scary to say that. And look, I want to tell you, my kids were born in 1995, 1997. Okay. This was a countercultural thing to say to your kids in those days. yeah and I mean, it was brave. And I was, my mom and my sisters were telling me I was going to screw up my kids so badly. And they were, they've all, look, we've all apologized to each other since then. And my, i you know, the, it all came out in that my kids,
00:32:37
Speaker
ah You know, they're my absolute best friends. We're incredibly close. We've never been as giant. Thanks be to God. I mean, some of this is just luck. Okay. um But I was honest with them. And i I, had myself had grown up with a mom who was miserable. She gave up everything. And she was very unhappy. And I, I grieved for unhappiness every day.
00:32:57
Speaker
And I do want to do that to my kids. So yeah, so true. It's like when you're younger, too, you think, oh, I the goal is to be a stay at home mom. Like, I don't know if that was something just instilled in me. But you always think that. And then when I became a mom, I was like, I it was the same way. and I was like, no, i I actually do love work. I love having something for myself. I love having my own financial security. Yes. Yeah.
00:33:22
Speaker
um It was just like very different from what I thought I would feel. So i totally yeah agree. Isn't that so interesting is that you do go into it thinking you're going to feel something. And then- That's how you're supposed to feel, I guess. Yeah. Well, there's so many narratives. I think that's the narrative, yeah, that we are fed. i loved when you said that we as moms have to wake up every day and like choose you know our values. And I think that- i think that a question I had for you, but I feel like you kind of answered it, but I'd kind of love to chat about this for a second is if, you know, becoming you or finding your purpose, your authentic purpose, like I feel like I kind of thought it was a destination. Like you reach there and like you're there and great, but the truth is, yeah. Yeah. The truth is, like, I feel like even in my four years of being a mom, I've seen glimmers of it, right? Like, I almost get, like, a taste. And then, you know, I'm catapulted backwards, like, because of circumstances or, you know, whatever. And I feel as though it's a little bit of a wave, right? Like, like and there's – and I think that's true with motherhood. You kind of have to ride the wave. But I'd love to hear kind of your take. Like, is this –
00:34:41
Speaker
And even the people who take your course of becoming you, like, is this something they will have to revisit in different phases of life?
Evolving Demands of Motherhood
00:34:49
Speaker
Does it change? What that like? but a whole bunch of great questions there. Look, um you do, especially in your years as a mother, have to keep revisiting what works because you could be going along doing something and it could be kind of fantastic.
00:35:03
Speaker
And then one of your kids will go off the rails or one of your kids will be diagnosed with a learning challenge. And you'll say, oh, whoa, whoa, whoa. whoa OK, I thought it was going this way, but actually with five days a week of of of ah special ed, I can't do that anymore. And so you are singing and zagging. But it is it is a pretty dangerous thing to lose the long-term vision because then you start to wander in the desert and you feel this sense of loss all the time. And I think that's why it's so important to know what your values are. Your values pretty much don't change. You don't wake up every day and try to decide what your values are. You know your values. If you want to know your values, take the values bridge. We have a test. I developed a test because how do we know what our values are? We lie to ourselves constantly because of all the narratives in our head. So I work with my team at the lab and
00:35:50
Speaker
it was based on my phd research there's a test called the values bridge you can go there the valuesbridge.com take the test in 20 minutes you will have your values rank ordered from 1 to 16. there's a free version you'll find out some of your values and there's a paid version i'm not gonna lie it's 30 i wish it was free but engineers are not free so um but you will find out your values you'll find out which ones are in ah conflict in which ones are in harmony. That's very important to know. But you'll also know, and this is really important, and you don't have to take the test to know this because you feel it in your gut, but we'll give you a number on it, how much you have a value of a certain value and how much you're living it. Because your number one value, you may find out, is work centrism and achievement. And if you're at home with your kids, you're going to see a gap of 50 to 70 to 90%. I see that all the time with working with moms who made a decision to stay home.
00:36:35
Speaker
And guess what? Sometimes you can do nothing about it. You've made a decision to stay home. You have to stay home. there's a bunch of You want to stay home on some level. And you have to live with the gaps. And you have to live with the conflicts.
00:36:47
Speaker
Our life is that negotiation. But I think the place you can really start as a mom is to understand where you want to go and and to also just accept that it's not going to happen at the pace you probably want unless you make it happen at that pace. I mean, there's a girl boss narrative, OK? that you're going to be a young, fierce. I mean, it's very prevalent, for instance, in New York city, girl boss. And then these women, you know, they got this belief and then they have the child and they're like, oops, didn't realize how much this was going to interrupt the girl boss narrative. And they have a decision right there about what they're going to do. Are they going to continue on that path or they, and that will involve handing off the baby pretty much, you know, and, and making a decision to D, uh,
00:37:30
Speaker
emphasize the motherhood part of of their current existence. um But you have to accept the feelings that go with that. there may be There may be no feelings, but there may also be feelings of ambivalence and regret and doubt. And I mean, I remember sitting at my desk right after I had my daughter Eve, and I went back to work, fourth child, went back to work. In those days, maternity leave was two weeks. Okay.
00:37:54
Speaker
That's hard. I think that that probably was the hardest thing was like, going back to work, but so glad I did. But yes, continue. i'm yeah but That was hard. probably right Left four children at home with a nanny. I remember going into my office, sitting at my desk and literally sobbing. I've seen it to my stomach. What am I doing? um What am I doing? And I called a friend of mine who was a mother of three who seemed to have it under control. And I said to feel so guilty. I feel so guilty. I could throw up. It was physical.
00:38:24
Speaker
And she said to me, Susie, guilt is a choice. It's a choice. You've made your decision. You want to be a working mother. You want to stay the course. You want to, like when the kids are gone, when they're in high school, you want to still be working. You've made that choice. So now you have to let go of the guilt.
00:38:39
Speaker
you You know, you made the choice. And if you don't want to you know, make that choice, then go home and shut up. And, and just, you know, and, and I, she kicked my butt and I'm so grateful to her. um And I, I say it to time all the time, like guilt is ah guilt is a choice. and You got to pick your battles. I decided, and I had to let go of the guilt part of I was, ah I was ah the greatest mother that I could possibly be when I was with them.
00:39:04
Speaker
And, you know, in those days we had no technology, so I couldn't go to a wrestling meet while somebody held up the phone. So you were, you know, in some ways technology would have made a ton of my problems go away. And when my son was a senior in high school, he was just this close, this close to being the national wrestling champion. He turned to me and my husband and he said, I need you to show up to these meets. You never show up to my meets because we were both working and traveling. And he said, this year need you to show up. we changed everything to show up. He asked us, we delivered and we made choices, every but you have to relitigate every day. But I knew where I wanted to go and it made it easier to know, just to know where I wanted
Reconnecting with Authentic Self
00:39:40
Speaker
to go.
00:39:40
Speaker
Yeah. Well, I think also him telling you that is a testament to honesty and how you showed up with them with honesty and it allowed them to do the same back with you. So bravo to you and ah your late husband for just creating that environment of open communication and honesty.
00:40:00
Speaker
Thanks. Thanks. And we definitely did that. And as I said, you know, we made mistakes. um we Every mom does. I mean, you're not you know, I would ask for their forgiveness. Look, I screwed this one up.
00:40:11
Speaker
um and ah But ah we did have open and honest communication. so Yeah. I love that. Okay. What are some small, really doable ways that moms can kind of reconnect with themselves when time and energy is limited? i think that's kind of – I feel like a lot of moms listening – to this show right now probably feel like oh my gosh i want to do the work to maybe learn more about myself or become the best authentic version of myself what are some other than taking becoming you yeah what are some kind of small doable things that you would recommend All right. I have this crazy idea and you could take it or leave it. Okay. But okay um I used to do the memory of the old Susie, the Susie that I kind of gave, had to give up somewhat because when you when you're doing what I was doing, which was working full time with four kids, something's got to give. And one of the things that I did that kept me in touch with the old Susie was that I i introduced my music, the music that I loved, the music that made me feel authentically me, I introduced it to my kids. And instead of totally only listening to Disney music and Rafi and all the other music, I asked them to enter my world with music. And I drove carpool because that was part of what I did is I dropped them off on the way to work. And very early on, they were listening to like, like the breeders singing cannonball. I happened to like really intense 90s grunge. And I loved like
00:41:40
Speaker
like music that you can't believe. i love that. Yeah. I love, love nineties grunge and I loved like really intense rock and roll. And I, um and I, they ended up loving it to this day. The kids talk about how much fun it was to get to carpool with me because I would say, guess what? No Disney music. We're going to listen to this fantastic, you know, early, you know, saw like this early music by, you know, um whoever. And I would say like, I,
00:42:07
Speaker
The thing that helped me was I asked them to enter my world and to experience what I loved. And it allowed me to kind of hold on to who I was and they got to know me better.
00:42:18
Speaker
Yeah. So I think that that is one small thing that saved me over and over again. To this day, they talk about, yeah, my mom really, my mom introduced me to Madonna and they were just like, what? You should do that. And I was like, yeah, you've got to be listening to this person. Yeah.
00:42:30
Speaker
I kind of feel like that's a fun fact about you, 90s grunge. I didn't see that coming. Yeah, I didn't see that coming either. I love it. Love it. I love it. I mean, it is, I don't know why. i think it's pretty raw and that's part of it. and um and it But it it totally brings me back to who I am. and and But it's hard for me meet somebody who loves it as much as I do, but I know my kids and I um all dig it together.
Debunking Myths of Motherhood
00:42:56
Speaker
And that's special. Yeah. Cute. I love it. Okay. Another thing, and another narrative that I think we're fed a lot as moms in this like day and age of like having it all, right? Balancing it all, having it all. I'd love to hear kind of your take on that and ah just, yeah, your take on that, on that narrative.
00:43:19
Speaker
Okay, well, I thought I was going to be the one woman who could have it all. I did. i thought, like, what's wrong with those other millions of women who came before me? Why? What's wrong with them? but They were insufficient that they could not be look beautiful, ah be a high performer at work. And the perfect mother also. I mean, what the heck was wrong with me? Just the ridiculous. um self-confidence and arrogance of a person who never tried it. Then, of course, I was brought to my knees by my first child where, you know, ah you you wouldd wake up in the middle of the night, you'd have a big meeting coming at eight o'clock. The child would be up 14 times the night before and they would like throw up and poop all over you repeatedly. So I tried. And very quickly, I found out that the truest thing about life is that you cannot have it all all at the same time.
00:44:03
Speaker
You can't. Nobody can. Even, um you know, look, I had I was really lucky. I had the wind at my back because I had I had resources. I mean, my ah I married Jack when the kids were young. He adopted them. We had financial security. I had a wonderful partner. I had a partner who was like, Susie, shoulder to shoulder.
00:44:21
Speaker
we're going to do this together. And I, we, um if I needed a babysitter, I was able to get one. So I want to just acknowledge that the wind was at my back with a loving husband and financial resources. And I still couldn't do it all, all at the same time because, ah because you're human and, and you, so you, you just, you're imperfect. And then I, as soon as I discovered that, I thought I can either try to,
00:44:48
Speaker
pretend this isn't true. I can try to hide it or I can amplify it and celebrate it. And I started just telling my story out loud. Like I literally started talking about um with, with my girlfriends, with my mommy friends. um At that point, early on, I was writing a column for, Oh, the Oprah magazine. i was their work life balance columnist. And I just talked about ah the sort of sheer ugliness and joy and mess. of trying to do it all at the same time. And I think you just, you got to just try to, if you deny it and you try to make it look like you can do it, you're just, you're adding a complication to the way that you don't need to add to it. Just talk about it, not complain about it because you chose, you chose it. right and I don't want to hear the complaining about it. And I don't want to be the one complaining about it because we chose this thing. And it's ah it's a, it's a,
00:45:42
Speaker
total joy to have a child, what a gift from God it is. And so, and there's so many people who want them and who can't have them. And so like, do not ah look look that gift horse in the mouth. Okay. And it's really wonderful to have a job you love and everything good is hard. And so um I think it's there's a sort of like um outward celebration and acknowledgement that of it that has to be tinged with joy and gratitude, but there's don't sugarcoat it. What you're doing is what you're doing is truly heroic heroic and just live it. Yeah.
Humorous and Personal Insights
00:46:16
Speaker
Well, I love hearing that. I don't know if Whitney, you feel the same way, but I feel like that's so much of what we do on this show. And really our whole purpose of this show was to bring the reality of what we deal with as young moms and
00:46:32
Speaker
to, you know, a microphone where people can feel heard and seen and, you know, relate to us with humor. We that's like a huge core of what we do is like bringing the humor to motherhood, but also a sense of gratitude. Like when we.
00:46:49
Speaker
the reason we started this show is we looked for another mom podcast and everything was either too educational or too complainy or so we're like, we're just missing that real voice. And I hope that our listeners feel like we do exactly what you said. We call out the realness and just what it's really like, but also with a sense of gratitude and love, honestly, because we love, I love my kids. I love being a mom, but it's hard as hell. And it's the hardest thing I've ever done. And it will always be the hardest thing ever did. I mean, I think that the only thing I've ever done that compares to how hard it was, was age 60, I decided I needed to finish my PhD. And I went back to do that. And I thought, oh, I finally, look, I mean, it took a lot to bring me to my knees again. Because once you get through the, it is the hardest thing. It's the hardest, best thing you'll ever do. And you just love them so fiercely, almost like in a feral way. You can love them and hate them, though, in the same moment. And just like, okay, just that, okay, just that is just a reason to pat yourself on the back, that you can love and hate someone simultaneously and then continue to make dinner, okay? Yeah. You know, I love what your show does because I wish that it had existed when I was doing it.
00:48:06
Speaker
um I found other moms like me and we created like a little cabal. We'd find each other. But the fact that you're doing this and allowing mothers all around to find each other and to share this experience. Thank God for you.
00:48:19
Speaker
Thank for saying that. Amazing. Thank you so much. Okay. We're going to end. We always end with some super fast, light questions, kind of some fun stuff. Okay.
00:48:30
Speaker
ah When do you feel most like yourself? Well, right now I'm so lucky I'm in this time in my life where I feel like myself every f freaking minute. Fight for this, my friends. Fight for it because it comes to you. But I think I feel completely like myself. Even like I'm about to get on the subway in New York and I'll be going down to work, I'll feel like myself. So this is a beautiful thing.
00:48:47
Speaker
That sounds fun, honestly. I know. It's it's coming for you. you get you'll get You'll get there. Don't give up the fight. Exactly. Okay. Coffee or tea? Oh, I'm like, I'm drinking coffee right now. And by the way, iced coffee. Don't give me hot coffee. I iced coffee all the way.
00:49:01
Speaker
I feel like that's a New Yorker thing. Honestly, when I lived in New York, everyone drank iced coffee always. Like it would be blizzarding and you get an ice. There's never a day I've had hot coffee. and Yesterday in the blizzard, I drank iced coffee. yeah That's so funny. um What is your bedtime routine? Well, I'm a pretty, um i I go to bed pretty early. I sleep with three gigantic dogs, i two gigantic dogs and a little dachshund on my bed. And i um I'm very, very routine. I go to bed. I do the crossword before I go to bed every single day. I've never missed the cross New York Times crossword a day in my life. And Wordle also, I go to bed early. And I hope you don't hate me, but I wake up at 4.45 every day. I'm an early riser. I get a ton of done in the morning. Yeah, i do you do that? I love it.
00:49:43
Speaker
I love waking up. I'm a night owl. you Whitney and I are opposites. Okay. Do you prefer a big group dinner or a one-on-one? A big group dinner. i'm a I'm an extrovert. I love to entertain big group dinner.
00:49:57
Speaker
Amazing. Okay. Last thing you impulsively ordered online. Fuck. Where does the list? I mean, I'm never going to trying to find a comfortable bra, to be honest with you. Okay. I mean, you can't stop me. Every day I order different one and I can't find it. I have a magician for you here in Tampa, Florida. If you ever come to Tampa, you need message me. I told this story on the podcast recently, but I went into Nordstrom. was sent there. Someone said, go visit Edith at Nordstrom. And I went and I swear to you, she took one look at me and brought me back a bra. And it was the most perfect fitting, most comfortable bra I've ever had. I'm going to take it tomorrow. like...
00:50:36
Speaker
I was like, what black magic is this? I've been searching for a bra for years okay and you didn't even, she didn't even touch me. It was so crazy. I'm coming. I'll be right there. I'm booking the next one. No, because, okay, so that's me online. I mean, it's kind of scary because every time the doorbell rings, it's another Amazon delivery of me trying get
Conclusion and Thanks
00:50:55
Speaker
again too. Love that. Amazing. I love that. That's so relatable. Well, thank you so, so much for being here. This was so insightful and fun and I feel so inspired. I will definitely be checking out Values Bridge. and I feel like we should take it together, Candice, and then talk about it on the next pod.
00:51:14
Speaker
Take it because then there's a functionality where you can check a little box for two people who have taken it and your values will come up next to each other and compare them. Candice, that's so fun. Okay, was going to that's our next episode. We're going to be taking the Values Bridge. Amazing. All right, wonderful.
00:51:29
Speaker
Tell us, tell us where people can find you. tell us about your book and where they can find that. Wonderful. My book is Becoming You. You can find it anywhere. It's on for sale everywhere on Amazon, everywhere else, any place you can find books. I have a podcast myself. It's called Becoming You. You can find it on any ah on any one of the networks. And I have a free newsletter, um which you so can subscribe to at suzywelch.com. Sign up for the newsletter. And every week I like write a letter um about what's going on my life. There are ample photographs of my children and Lyrial in this newsletter. So if you want to if you want to see the cutest pictures in the world, you can do that.
00:52:01
Speaker
Of course. Amazing. Thank you so much, Susie. It's my pleasure. I love being with you and I keep doing what you're doing. The world needs you. Yay. All right. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for being a part of our mom group chat. New episodes drop every Tuesday. And don't forget the group chat is blowing up on our Instagram page. So make sure you're following along over there. All right. Got to go. My toddler just put something in her mouth.