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EPISODE 78 - Patriots draft preview!!
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Transcript
Introduction & Current NFL 'Dead Zone' Discussion
00:00:00
Savage Boston
Hi guys, welcome back. Savage Boston Podcast here. It is March 24th, roughly 8.30 night. We are recording. I'd say it's probably like NFL dead zone, but I don't know.
00:00:13
Savage Boston
what I don't know what's worse, this or June. Like I'm trying to remember back to last year. I think June was like absolutely zero happens. Like everyone's on vacation.
AJ Brown Trade Speculation
00:00:23
Savage Boston
i don't i don't i don't remember, but this is getting pretty, it's getting pretty slow now.
00:00:27
Savage Boston
It's just like
00:00:27
Bret
Well, I would say June 1st could be potential fireworks, but hey.
00:00:32
Savage Boston
Oh, spice it up. Spice the pot up already. That's the hook. They'll get the listeners in. um Yeah.
NFL Draft: Key Players & Strategies
00:00:41
Savage Boston
Well, Hey, you know, we could, there's only so much we can say in AJ Brown, the AJ Brown front, other than i think the last three days, the reports are basically from every major news outlet. It's like, they're going to trade them and it's probably going to be like June 2nd.
00:00:55
Savage Boston
That's it. That's every report. So it's like, get ready for the next two months of, just hurry up and wait as, as, it as you wait for this deal to get done, unless there's like a real push that people want to get this deal out of the way before the draft, because they up the ante and they just, I don't know don't want to give up 20, 27 assets.
00:01:17
Savage Boston
whys zo
00:01:18
Snooty
was to say, it'll be fascinating, particularly early, day one and day two, because I think if they were to take like a big receiver in round one, that might actually be the like signify that it's not happening.
00:01:26
Savage Boston
yeah
00:01:31
Savage Boston
Yeah. Yeah.
00:01:31
Snooty
That's a shitload of capital to to use on one position.
00:01:35
Savage Boston
Well, so great quick segue because want to talk draft today and just start getting into it. Like the plans and just specific players that you like. I'd say like one guy that, um, I think field Yates had him mocked today and we, and we've talked about this player, not, not much on this pod, but is is Denzel Boston.
00:01:55
Savage Boston
Right. So like Denzel Boston was a player that field Yates had mocked today six foot four, 200 pound wide receiver from Washington, you know, and I've seen a lot of people trying to hype this player up, uh, again, like wide receiver Washington. it like brings back a little bit of like bad memories, but, um, as far as Denzel Boston goes, he's a really good red zone target, good tape. But the weird thing is he chose not to run his 40 on his pro day, which to me, that's like,
00:02:28
Savage Boston
You didn't run the 40 at the combine. You don't run your 40 at your pro day. Like, does he think he's going to run a four seven Like, even if you were going to run like a low 4-6, like, wouldn't you run when you run it Like, i don't I don't know. It feels really weird. I don't know. I mean, what are your thoughts on the on the Yates draft pick or mock of Denzel Boston?
00:02:50
Snooty
I mean, again, so the initial thought is that would signify, especially if it's Boston, it would signify like it's they're not going to get Brown because that's very similar type of player, right, in terms of like actual wide receiver position. For instance, if it was someone like Concepcion from Texas A&M, they don't, yes, they play the same position. They don't, they play very different kind of wide receiver roles. um I like the, I don't,
00:03:15
Snooty
i don't know. Is it that it's a big receiver who's slow from the former PAC 12, or is it that he's a wide receiver from Washington? Which one's giving me, you know, worse flashbacks? I don't know.
00:03:26
Snooty
um
00:03:26
Bret
going with Washington.
00:03:28
Snooty
Yeah, I mean, I don't know. i mean, Harry was a hell of a blocker, right? Like, he lasted a hell a lot longer than Polk did. So, i don't know. I mean, i'm I'm okay taking a
Draft Philosophies & Historical Examples
00:03:38
Snooty
receiver. This draft, I'm just full in on best player available.
00:03:41
Snooty
You know, I know they had – they planned on having the D-tackle there from Ohio State, one of the better D-tackles in the draft in for a top 30 visit, like, you know, or an official 30 visit or whatever.
00:03:52
Savage Boston
Oh, Caden, Caden McDonald.
00:03:53
Snooty
Yeah, and, like –
00:03:54
Savage Boston
Yeah.
00:03:55
Snooty
That's obviously nowhere near the biggest position of need, but if he's the best player on you know available at that point, at 31, take him. That's fine.
00:04:05
Snooty
The draft isn't for like immediate needs. The draft is to build ah a program. It's to build a team. And if that means you take a stud de-tackle at 31, well, shit. Well, then you take a stud de-tackle at 31.
00:04:17
Snooty
It is what it is.
00:04:17
Savage Boston
Yeah.
00:04:19
Bret
Yeah, I think if you look at our immediate needs, it's essentially we need a wide receiver one, but if we didn't Like, we're we're not going to get a wide receiver one at the 31 pick in the draft. So even if we get someone, it's not going to be someone that's going to slide in and take that spot right away. So I'm good with the best available. There's plenty of needs we have. Like, we could take – we obviously need an edge.
00:04:46
Bret
I wouldn't be surprised if we get a linebacker. You know, like, there's just so many positional needs that we will need to address at some point. Like, we've obviously shored up some of our – Key spots like quarterback.
00:05:00
Bret
I'd like to see them extend Gonzo, et cetera. Like we, we clearly have Williams at D taggle. Like we have some guys in key positions and we've done a good enough job shoring up what we need to do from free agency.
00:05:12
Bret
It's just building out depth and positional areas.
00:05:16
Savage Boston
Yeah.
00:05:16
Bret
And there's so many spots that they could go that I wouldn't be upset if they got an elite linebacker at that position be like, well, shit, there you go. I wouldn't be upset if they went ahead and and did draft a wide receiver and they yet still went in on A.G.
00:05:32
Bret
Brown. Like, you know, I just don't I don't think one negates the other necessarily.
00:05:37
Savage Boston
i think that I think that's true. like i Like you said, I don't think it necessarily means if they draft wide receiver that A.J. Brown is not in the cards. I just think like when you talk real needs, like what do they actually need? Needs, needs.
00:05:49
Savage Boston
So on offense, still with needs that wide receiver, tight end, and offensive tackle largely, right? Like those would, you'd say like the probably the main three needs on ah offense.
00:06:00
Savage Boston
And on defense, you'd probably say edge for certain, off ball linebacker, it probably safety. Right. So that's like six, six major position groups that you could say we can, mean,
00:06:14
Savage Boston
well i mean we can get someone young and develop them, right? So like safety, for instance, I'm pretty confident they're going to draft a safety. They're going want someone to come up under Kevin Byard. I mean, that's Kevin Byard. Love the signing. I think it's awesome. It's good for this year. He's a good player, but you're going to need a rookie who can maybe fill in that spot and develop behind buyer, you know, um, off my linebacker feels like a pretty big gaping hole.
00:06:37
Savage Boston
You'd love like a really fast, fast player. Like you don't – again, the league isn't like it used to be with these big thumpers. You need someone who's going run a four five like that Lewis kid from Pittsburgh or Rodriguez from Texas Tech, right? There's a couple – like who somehow – someone mocked him at 31 to the Patriots. And I was like, man, I just don't know about – like I don't know about the draft capital. I get best player, but like to to draft off-ball linebacker at 31 to me is is is a little tough.
00:07:10
Savage Boston
It depends. like do you guys I'll throw it out now. Do you guys believe in like positional value at this point? like Is positional value important?
00:07:18
Snooty
At 31, it's significantly less than it would be towards the higher end of the draft.
00:07:22
Savage Boston
Yeah, like four. yeah
00:07:23
Snooty
You what I mean? But but it's... But even then, like if if the player really is that rated that much higher than...
00:07:26
Savage Boston
It's still important, though.
00:07:30
Snooty
like I look at it like if you get a group of players and it's like safety, offensive tackle, which is also a need, and like wide receiver and edge, it's like, yeah, safety is probably fourth out of that.
00:07:36
Savage Boston
Yeah.
00:07:41
Snooty
right Because the other ones are more premier positions. But if you have a safety, like the kid from Oregon or the kid... Was it Toledo that he's from? The the other safety?
00:07:50
Savage Boston
Oh, Emmanuel McNeil Warren.
00:07:51
Snooty
Right. like Let's say you have him.
00:07:52
Savage Boston
Yeah.
00:07:53
Snooty
He's at 31. He's like... far and away better than everyone else you have.
00:07:55
Savage Boston
I like him.
00:07:57
Snooty
Yeah.
00:07:57
Savage Boston
Yeah.
00:07:57
Snooty
I don't give a shit. Like then take them because he's a better player.
00:07:59
Savage Boston
Yeah, no, he's he's a beast.
00:08:00
Snooty
It's like the whole thing.
00:08:00
Savage Boston
Yeah.
00:08:01
Snooty
Like um Belichick used to talk about, it's like, you don't pass on good players for positions you need because then you pass on a good player and you may not, because you took a lesser player, or you may not even fill the need that you drafted.
00:08:14
Snooty
So you're over to, you know mean? So it's like, yes, yes. And no, like it, it's, Yes and no. Like if they're similar, yes. But like generally speaking, when you're that far in the draft, no, it doesn't matter.
00:08:28
Savage Boston
yeah
00:08:29
Bret
Well, what's wild is this is always the spot. I mean, the Patriots have been in for years because we always were in the fucking Super Bowl or we' we're in the AFC championship game. So we were always picking late in the first round. And a lot of times in this position, you're taking some of those um guys where you take a little bit of a gamble on where you're like, OK, maybe this guy can pan out or you.
00:08:51
Bret
like overdraft a player, but you look at it and say like, Hey, this is like the best position, best guest guy in this position at this spot. Like I'm going to take him because I think he's a more confident he's going to produce.
00:09:02
Savage Boston
you
00:09:04
Bret
And then it ends up working out well in your favor. So it's just wild that we've gotten to this point in the matter of a year after we were consecutively drafting in the top three. And it's like now all of a sudden we're looking at it just a year plus removed. And we're basically saying, yeah, they could go here. They could go there. They could.
00:09:24
Bret
But essentially i look at 31 and I'm saying to myself, they could potentially be drafting a guy that's a development spot. Like they're not, he's not getting significant playing time year one.
00:09:36
Savage Boston
Yeah, I wanted to go through, like, again, when you talk about positional value or or reaching, right? and I don't know how many times you felt like when Belichick was drafting, right? Like, how many of those were, or like, reaches to you?
00:09:47
Bret
Bye.
00:09:51
Savage Boston
Like, a position that you felt like they they really didn't need to take that high. So, I mean, a couple times it might be, like, again, ah someone like Cole Strange to me is – the most, I think, most obvious, not just reach on a player, but even to reach at a position that's not a premier position is like a double negative. That's why that pick ended up being historically so horrible.
00:10:21
Savage Boston
So like the player was a fourth round grade that you take out a guard at like, what what was it like? 22 or so I'd have to look it up. But like, again, that's something where, um, that was a reach on, on multiple, multiple fronts.
00:10:35
Savage Boston
Um,
00:10:35
Bret
Here comes Snooty to go ahead and call that not a reach.
00:10:39
Savage Boston
yeah. Why you don't, get soon you don't think that's a reach.
00:10:40
Snooty
He's 29th. I don't think the positions are reach at 29.
00:10:44
Savage Boston
I think, well, first of all, I think that that's arguable, but not at, maybe not at late round, late first round.
00:10:44
Snooty
He
00:10:50
Savage Boston
I don't think it says bad.
00:10:51
Snooty
he was 29.
00:10:51
Savage Boston
Clearly. Yes.
00:10:53
Snooty
Yeah.
00:10:53
Savage Boston
And then, no, it's not
Evaluating Draft Picks & Positional Focus
00:10:54
Savage Boston
bad, but yes, the player was a reach.
00:10:55
Snooty
No, the play it was a horrible draft pick. I mean, it doesn't matter if you fucking whiff on the evaluation that bad.
00:10:58
Savage Boston
it was horrible
00:11:02
Snooty
Doesn't matter where the fuck you draft him. You could draft him.
00:11:04
Savage Boston
yeah i'm going like i'm going to picks like you know belichick's belichick's draft history i mean for first round picks in 2013 they didn't have one then it's like dominique easily and then malcolm brown or two late first round picks then they didn't have one in 2016 they didn't have one 2017 Then they had two with Isaiah Wynn, Sonny Michelle, then Nikhil Harry, then Mac Jones, and Cole Strange.
00:11:27
Savage Boston
And then the last three years is Christian Gonzalez, Drake May, and Will Campbell. So like...
00:11:32
Snooty
But look at the positions. If you're strictly speaking position, none of those are like crazy positions to draft at those points.
00:11:39
Savage Boston
to your point, I don't... i actually... i agree. I don't think there's a crazy... positional reach at that far down in the draft if the player is good enough. But if you're reaching on a player at a non-urgent position, that's like even even worse. You know, that's beyond the philosophy of best best player available is best player available.
00:12:00
Savage Boston
And I think that's largely what they've been doing. Although, you know, Will Campbell was kind of like the best player they thought was available at a position that they obviously really, really needed. So it's marrying those those two ideas.
00:12:10
Snooty
Yeah.
00:12:13
Snooty
But that's kind of what we were saying before. Like he, in the group of players, they probably went like tackle receiver, whatever, and said, well, tackle is the most valuable of those.
00:12:23
Snooty
Like if they had them rated as highly as Ted McMillan and whoever else in that was in that draft, like they must've been like, okay, the, me, the D tackle from ah who went Michigan, they went to Cleveland, that kid, but like, If they had those three similarly rated, they went, well, offensive tackle is a more premier position than the other two.
00:12:41
Savage Boston
Oh, Mason Graham you're talking about?
00:12:42
Snooty
Mason Graham. So they would have been like, okay, fine, we're going to take that take that position.
00:12:43
Savage Boston
Yeah.
00:12:45
Snooty
So it kind of worked out that way. But you never want to draft for need, solely for need.
00:12:51
Savage Boston
Well, just, hold on before you go right I just want to throw out just to give credit for Belichick with his drafting before he hit that rut because, you know, 2001 Richard Seymour.
00:13:02
Savage Boston
2002 was Daniel Graham at tight end, who was pretty good. Maybe not first round, like he was a decent tight end. 2003 is Ty Warren, who was excellent. Then Vince Wilfork, then Benjamin Watson, Logan Menkens.
00:13:15
Savage Boston
You know, like Lawrence Maroney was a miss. Then Brandon Merriweather is decent. Then Gerard Mayo, Devin McCourty, Nate Solder, Chandler Jones, Dante Hightower. Those are all first round picks by Bill Belichick.
00:13:26
Savage Boston
So I don't want the fuck change with the the scouting system or how he decided to go about it after basically 2012. But man, he was a, he was an absolute, he was on a heater for like a decade and till it wasn't.
00:13:42
Bret
I'll still always remember the Logan Mankins pick because we're like Logan Mankins out of Fresno State and we're like, who the fuck is that?
00:13:50
Savage Boston
Yeah.
00:13:52
Bret
And also we watch the highlight reel, we're like, you Just typical meatheads going off.
00:13:57
Savage Boston
I remember watching that. He's an animal. We just started freaking out.
00:14:02
Snooty
Woo!
00:14:02
Bret
And he was, I mean, the guy was a freaking stud. Yeah.
00:14:07
Savage Boston
But I was upset that Logan Menkins played his entire career in New England as like at all pro level and somehow missed the Super Bowl from 2005 to 2013. He perfectly missed it, which just kind of sucks.
00:14:16
Bret
Yeah.
00:14:20
Savage Boston
Sucks for him, but amazing player. Um, so Side note, that kid, that guard from Penn State who's going to fall, this kid, ah Aon or Leon, i forget I forget his name.
00:14:30
Savage Boston
What's his name from ah penn the Penn State
00:14:32
Snooty
I know you're talking about. Yeah. I owe H A N E or something.
00:14:36
Savage Boston
freak show. He's going to an absolutely mauling, sick guard. And I think he's just falling just because of position again. Like he's the number one guard. He's he's a straight guard, not tackle to guard, not Francis Mauga from Miami. I'm going to butcher these names, but the the Miami tackle, they're going to make a guard probably like at some point, or maybe it'll be tackled. That's a rumor. They might make him a guard.
00:15:01
Savage Boston
um But basically,
00:15:02
Snooty
I took the kid from Utah.
00:15:03
Savage Boston
I like this kid from Penn State who isn't going to drop too far.
00:15:06
Bret
Thank you.
00:15:08
Savage Boston
Maybe the teens um or early 20s, but he's just a straight guard. Like, I like it. That's his position. He's a guard, and he's going to be an excellent, excellent player. um So just going through – so we've been through, like, positional value and and what they need and probably what they'll target. So let me just ask it more of, like – more of like less of an overlooking thing, but what do you guys want them to take in the first round? Like, it's a different question. Like, what do you actually want to have happen?
00:15:39
Savage Boston
You know and I mean? Like what position do you want them to draft?
00:15:44
Snooty
I mean, which again, I want them to take best player available, but in order, I guess it would be...
00:15:50
Savage Boston
But if you had an opinion, like give give it give, pontificate, give an opinion on it. You know what I mean?
00:15:54
Snooty
if I think the glass is deep enough that you could find a really, really good edge player at 31, potentially, unless there's some crazy run on them.
00:15:54
Savage Boston
what What do you want to see happen?
00:16:04
Snooty
But if if there's a crazy run and if you get like eight edge players to go before you go at 31, that means a good player is going to get pushed down to you. So... If a really good guard falls to 31, I wouldn't even mind that.
00:16:17
Snooty
I really want to tackle.
00:16:18
Bret
Thank you.
00:16:19
Snooty
I'd like Blake Miller just at 31 if he's there.
00:16:21
Savage Boston
yeah
00:16:22
Snooty
um
00:16:23
Savage Boston
He's got a great size. Great size.
00:16:24
Snooty
I'd like to – we're going to butcher his name. The tackle from Arizona State. He's very raw, but he's like a – yeah, yeah.
00:16:31
Savage Boston
Oh, Ian Corr? Yeah. Yeah.
00:16:34
Snooty
He's a he's very big. He's very raw, but he's very athletic. um Kind of a perfect like – People call it a premium pick or a luxury pick, but like, no, don't care if he sits the year because that means um Moses is healthy the whole year, but you got your, you know, you're getting this kid ready to go in and play. I wouldn't even mind Proctor potentially in the first round at at tackle, the kid from Alabama.
00:16:58
Snooty
um
00:16:59
Savage Boston
He's a big, unpolished kid, but he's a mauler.
00:17:01
Snooty
But again, same type of thing, like, because you've got to start planning that out. Like people, oh, you got to get weapons for me. Fuck that. You got to protect them, man. Like, you get it long-term. So, for me, it would be edge, offensive tackle, or um off-ball linebacker because I think you can get, like, a – I think you can get a stud there.
00:17:10
Savage Boston
Yeah.
00:17:19
Savage Boston
In round one.
00:17:19
Snooty
Yeah, but if if someone's there, yeah.
00:17:21
Savage Boston
what do you want, though? The Rodriguez kid? Who do you want?
00:17:23
Snooty
I wouldn't mind Rodriguez. I also like Hill from Texas. um
00:17:27
Savage Boston
Well, hill what about Hill in round two, though? Can you get Hill in round two?
00:17:29
Snooty
Round two, if if he falls to two, yeah, I mean, i would take him.
00:17:30
Savage Boston
Because he's fast, right?
00:17:33
Snooty
Yeah.
00:17:33
Savage Boston
Yeah. No, he's good. Yeah, a little Texas. Good little Texas nod in there. who do you What do you want to see happen, Brett?
00:17:41
Bret
I'd like to see an edge. I mean, this is the draft, I think, to go up there and grab someone. I think there's going to be enough guys that could drop into that 31 spot that you know I just said all of these guys that they're going to pick at 31 are probably not going to get a playing time.
00:17:56
Bret
You get an edge, he's probably going to get some rotational playing time. And so that's why I'd like to be able to be more aggressive there.
00:18:00
Savage Boston
Absolutely.
00:18:02
Bret
i They're going to have to draft to tackle this draft because they really don't have a great backup plan for Moses right now. And you not only need to plan for the future, but you also need to plan for the fact that There's a chance he could go down and then, you know, what are you doing? Are you bumping on my new hour? you putting Brown back in? Like, how are you managing that spot, especially after like letting logo? So I just I think they need to make a move there. i just don't know if I'd really jump up at the first round to get a tackle. So I'd probably say no
00:18:37
Bret
um So to me, it's edge and then i would say linebacker because I think linebacker is one of those things where it's an undervalued position. But like if you get a good stretch linebacker that can fill in your needs, like it's worth it.
00:18:50
Bret
And I think sometimes it's one of those spots where, again, teams will like undervalue the position altogether because they're basically like, you know, defensive end or edge guy.
00:19:03
Bret
cornerback and then they start looking at safety and it's like the hybrid safety and it's like okay well maybe you get a hybrid linebacker you know stretch linebacker so that's the way i would look at it i just think i'd lean hard on the edge side and i think they could do it and there'd be some guys that could drop so
00:19:21
Savage Boston
Now with, with the, yeah, I mean, the thing with linebackers, is I think there's depth there in the draft that you can maybe find somebody who's like somewhat comparable later on, unless like, you know, you're not going to get, you know, Sonny styles, right? Sonny styles is going to be like, it's like peak, peak, peak. He's a top seven pick or something. Right. But then the rest of off ball, it's, there's not as much there. And like,
00:19:47
Savage Boston
Rodriguez is the next, maybe the next good guy, but how much do you get from Hill from Texas? How much do you get from the Pittsburgh kid? And there's some other, there's just some other fast off ball linebackers.
00:19:58
Savage Boston
Kid just ran today. I think from like LSU, he flies like, like there's some fast kids that you're like, okay, well are these third or fourth rounders that can play?
00:20:01
Snooty
Perkins.
00:20:06
Savage Boston
Cause you just, and in today's NFL scheme, you need guys that can cover. They can get to the quarterback if they need to and they can cover, but again, lesser less of the thumper needs. like like Again, ted the Ted Johnson linebackers like don't really exist anymore like that.
00:20:23
Savage Boston
Unless you're a freak show like Bobby Wagner, who has played forever. you know what i mean? Or like Ray Lewis was where you can do both, you know, like ahead of their time players, you know i mean? it It doesn't work. Like I think I, my opinion, i think edge is probably, probably the way
Strategy and Athleticism in Draft Choices
00:20:41
Savage Boston
you'd want to go. Probably the way I want to go. If I had my choice, like my opinion, again, best player available a hundred percent. If they have conviction on someone, you take the player you have conviction on. But the only thing I don't like is we're getting mocked a lot of, for some people at 31 for like, you know, Cassius Howell and R. Mason Thomas, two guys. And like, I just don't love, and don't love these guys' builds. So I know that Vrabel wants someone who can get to the quarterback. and who can win. And Cassius Howell is that guy.
00:21:13
Savage Boston
like He can get to the quarterback. He flies. But you guys saw his his measurements, Cassius Howell? He has like the shortest arms for an edge in like recorded history or something.
00:21:26
Savage Boston
Like 30 inches, period. like he's If you're against a mauler who's got 35-inch arms, like he can't he's going to be like that you know he's see me like that kid where you hold his helmet back, he's flailing his arms around. you know what I mean? like I don't know.
00:21:41
Savage Boston
Like, I get it. You can get it's like the same argument people have for Reuben Bain, but Bain is such a kind of a freak show power rusher. He's going to be inside outside. Like you figure Bain's just a football player. He'll find a way.
00:21:52
Savage Boston
was just not in love with the Cassius Howell thing. And same with our Mason Thomas. He's just like the same build as Cassius Howell, but just less athletic basically. Like his numbers are worse. Like Howell ran a fast 40. Our Mason Thomas is like a 10th of a second behind him and a little bit smaller. So again, things like that I don't love. um Guys I do like that I think can get to the quarterback and be pretty effective. One is like TJ Parker from Clemson who's thick, long arms,
00:22:23
Savage Boston
power rush like he he can play the edge he can probably rush a bit not again not a true speed rusher but but a good you know a good rusher a good player um another guy is the um what's his name malachi uh malachi lawrence so this kid is really really interesting You're like 250, just like you got a 10 on like the RAS.
00:22:48
Savage Boston
He's just a freak show athletically. Freak show, but big enough where he can play the edge. Someone someone like that to me is like, i don't know if 31 is two too high for that player or you just see all the potential – Yeah.
00:23:05
Savage Boston
and the third dude at edge we've looked at or i've looked at is zion young from missouri who they were rumored to like already and i think i who had that and maybe maybe doug hyde and harold but somebody somebody had a piece where they linked the patriots already design young at edge Again, good kid, strong kid, big arms. like You need someone who's who can play. You need a three-down player. like You're not going draft at 31 overall Josh Uche.
00:23:34
Savage Boston
who you know and i mean You don't want to just have a specialist. and That's why I'm afraid if you draft Cassius Howell, are you getting a specialist? A third-down specialist who like can't can't play an edge. like and that's my that's my concern That's my concern at edge.
00:23:48
Savage Boston
I don't know if you guys any thoughts
00:23:49
Snooty
So, but so that's the thing. So again, given the depth, that edge, there might be a point where they go, you know what, after these three, four guys go, it's not that it's too thin.
00:23:56
Savage Boston
Yeah.
00:24:00
Snooty
It's like after three or four guys go, yes, it's a deep class, but the rest of it's more like specialist type thing, like rotational guys. And then they go, well, if you're the same, if you're going to get the same relative production in the first round as you are going to get from a guy, you could target rounds two or three, maybe use that first round pick on someone and a, a,
00:24:22
Snooty
at a more shallow position of talent. You know mean? Like maybe they look and go, and it's not a a great first round tight end draft.
00:24:30
Savage Boston
that might be Well, that might be tackle.
00:24:32
Snooty
Right.
00:24:32
Savage Boston
That might be tackle.
00:24:33
Snooty
They may look at someone like Miller or the kid, I'm going to butcher his name, the kid from Arizona state or whatever and say like, yeah, you know what? Or if, I mean, if Freeling ever made it to 31, you sprint to the stage to, to draft them.
00:24:47
Savage Boston
I've seen some mocks that Freeling is not getting out of the top 10 now.
00:24:51
Snooty
No, I know. Of course not.
00:24:52
Savage Boston
like But he wasn't there.
00:24:52
Bret
sure
00:24:53
Savage Boston
He was a second-round guy, but they saw his speed, his size, and they're like, his kid's got it all.
00:24:59
Snooty
Yeah, he's very raw, but like but again, guy guys built like that who can move like that don't grow on trees, right?
00:24:59
Savage Boston
So...
00:25:05
Snooty
So um if you they may look and say, it's a prime example of like, you know what, this is a better prospect at tackle, someone like who we can plug in at right tackle for the next season.
00:25:06
Savage Boston
Yeah. Yeah.
00:25:17
Snooty
you know, 10 years and it's eight to 10 years and be like, that's more valuable at 31 than it is like a a rotational edge guy who may or may not develop into more at 31, particularly since like, you know, you get the, the, the, the DN from Penn state.
00:25:19
Savage Boston
yeah
00:25:33
Snooty
I always forget his name. ah Dennis Sutton, right. At, you know, maybe you get him or maybe you look at him.
00:25:40
Savage Boston
Oh, Denise. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Denise. i oh His three cone and stuff.
00:25:44
Snooty
Right.
00:25:45
Savage Boston
Really good. Yeah.
00:25:46
Snooty
Maybe you look and go, maybe he's available round two, and you're targeting him in more in that second round. And you go, he's the same player, or there's there's the same upside with him as there's someone at 31. So you just take someone else, you take a tackle.
00:26:01
Savage Boston
Yeah.
00:26:02
Snooty
Obviously biased for offensive linemen, but...
00:26:02
Bret
Yeah, I think – and I know we talked about the last pod.
00:26:02
Savage Boston
a um
00:26:07
Bret
I mean, I think, Snooty, to your point, you get a guy that drops – maybe people don't look at it as premier because it's a right tackle. And you look at it and say, um you know, there are other needs.
00:26:21
Bret
But – They're playing the long game here. They've been playing it the last two off seasons. I mean, they had to plug in some spots, but you just look at what they did this last free agency. We talked about on the last pod, like what's our takeaway on it? How do we, you know, read their, you know, their actions? And I say it's the long game. They're not over leveraging themselves. They're trying to get the right spots for where they need them, but they,
00:26:44
Bret
They want to make sure they're going young and they want to make sure that they're getting guys for the long term. So I wouldn't be surprised if they got a tackle here. I'm just being an optimistic person thinking a solid edge is going to drop and then they're going to get them at that spot and then address the tackle later on.
00:27:03
Bret
But we'll see. We'll see what happens. I just...
00:27:06
Savage Boston
Dude, somebody had a great hold on someone had a great um article. I wish I could find it again. It was like the highest correlation statistics to like NFL success. Like what draft stats are linked the highest to NFL success, right?
00:27:20
Savage Boston
You'd think like 40-yard dash for whatever position, right? So this guy, he correlated the most. i think for edges, it was three-cone drill was one of them.
00:27:29
Snooty
Makes sense.
00:27:30
Savage Boston
Like one of the highest correlated with NFL success. And then ah you go back, look at Milton Williams' three cone. It's like one of the fastest detacks. Like he was elite. And you're like, oh, shit. Like, why didn't we see it? Like he was a third round detackle.
00:27:44
Bret
isn
00:27:44
Savage Boston
And then you're like, you know what i these Things like that. you're like, nobody somehow jumped on this. and Because it doesn't always correlate perfectly. But like Milton Williams had that ability. So then again, you look at, so this Max, I don't know how say his name either. Max Eichnacht, Eichnacht, Eichnacht.
00:27:59
Savage Boston
i a hannna card
00:28:00
Snooty
I don't know.
00:28:01
Savage Boston
This is awful. i ha A Hanna core.
00:28:02
Bret
A unicorn.
00:28:04
Savage Boston
So, I mean, he's i not undersized. You wouldn't say he's undersized. He's 65.7, six foot however they do that. basically Arm length is almost 34 inches. but kid ran a four nine one forty arm length is almost thirty four inches Um, his broad was like over nine. Like he's just, he's just fast. He's fast. I thought he got a 9.87 RAS fast, athletic, long arm, big kid, like tough to go wrong there.
00:28:34
Savage Boston
You know what i mean? That's, that's, that's probably going to be a good player. Blake Miller, same way, like maybe less polished for Blake Miller, but you, you can look up his RAS, but i know he's got like three, five inch arms.
00:28:46
Savage Boston
He's six foot seven. Like these guys are monsters. The arm length thing is huge for for left tackles too. and And I'm not swinging this into a negative Will Campbell thing. I'm just saying for in a positive spin for people with big arms, like go back and look at Lane Johnson.
00:29:02
Savage Boston
You remember Lane Johnson's RAS? Have you seen Lane Johnson?
00:29:05
Snooty
Yeah, he was a freak.
00:29:07
Savage Boston
Like that's what i mean.
00:29:08
Bret
Yeah.
00:29:08
Savage Boston
Like these guys, but he's a freak who also happened to turn into um one of the best tackles in the
Reflections on Coaching and Management Decisions
00:29:16
Savage Boston
last decade. I mean, he's been phenomenal.
00:29:18
Savage Boston
He was six, six only weighed three Oh three at the combine, but he ran a four, seven, you're in a four seven, which is crazy.
00:29:28
Bret
Yeah, he was also fourth overall.
00:29:29
Savage Boston
He runs up.
00:29:31
Bret
So, like, he was elite before he...
00:29:32
Savage Boston
I know, i know. I get it. Like he was an absolute, but his arms are 35.25 inches long, but just he?
00:29:37
Snooty
think he was the third tackle o taken that year, too.
00:29:40
Savage Boston
was he
00:29:41
Snooty
i think so.
00:29:41
Savage Boston
what what ah What a monster, though.
00:29:41
Bret
Was he really? Now
00:29:43
Savage Boston
you know what I mean? Like, that's that's measurables you want.
00:29:46
Bret
I got to look that one up.
00:29:47
Savage Boston
That's measurables you want at high in the draft, which is unfortunately, again, not what we got last year with Will Campbell. It is what it is. But that's like, you know, again, you can look at someone like Trent Williams.
00:29:59
Savage Boston
Trent Williams RAS, right? His athletic score.
00:30:02
Bret
Wow.
00:30:03
Savage Boston
He was he was fourth overall in 2010. What, Brett?
00:30:05
Snooty
and think it was Fisher, and then there was a kid from...
00:30:08
Savage Boston
What? brett
00:30:09
Bret
He was right.
00:30:10
Snooty
was Fisher from Central Michigan to the Chiefs, and then third, I think, went, like, some...
00:30:10
Savage Boston
what What, fourth overall?
00:30:18
Snooty
Oh, from Alabama, maybe.
00:30:18
Bret
youner
00:30:19
Savage Boston
but let's, hold let's.
00:30:20
Bret
You're never going to get it. You're never going to get it. Eric Fisher was the first.
00:30:24
Snooty
Yep.
00:30:24
Savage Boston
I actually remember that.
00:30:24
Bret
Then you had Luke Jokel went to the mags, number two.
00:30:27
Snooty
Ah, Jokel. Okay. Okay.
00:30:30
Bret
You'll love this one. Number three, Dion Jordan went to Miami.
00:30:33
Snooty
Deanne from Oregon. Yeah.
00:30:36
Savage Boston
Oh my God. you imagine me and the person that drafted like that D end?
00:30:37
Bret
Dion Jordan.
00:30:39
Savage Boston
Imagine drafting that D end and right after you is Lane Johnson.
00:30:39
Bret
Such a
00:30:43
Savage Boston
You're like, wow.
00:30:43
Snooty
I was thinking i was thinking of Chance Wormack and DJ Fluker.
00:30:43
Bret
bad guy.
00:30:44
Savage Boston
if
00:30:47
Snooty
11. 11.
00:30:48
Bret
That's why i did Dolphins are the Dolphins.
00:30:48
Snooty
ah eleven
00:30:51
Bret
It's just garbage.
00:30:51
Savage Boston
Yeah, I know. i'd like That's a complete F up, but dude, so here again, this is why combine and athletic scores matter for tackles too. When you think about who are the best tackles of the last X amount of years, like the most dominant. So here's Trent Williams played at Oklahoma.
00:31:04
Savage Boston
Drafted. 2010. He went um fourth overall. So obviously people knew he was an insane player off the bat. But he's six four and a half So undersized, quote unquote, height-wise. Arm length is over 34 inches. 34.25. He weighed 315.
00:31:21
Savage Boston
He ran a 4.8. A 4.81. Trent Williams. Just so stupid. Like that's such a good time. He ran a 4.81. 1.7. 10-yard split.
00:31:33
Savage Boston
just like Again, a nine broad jump. like When you get guys that are athletes like this at that big, that's why Will Campbell was really athletic too. like he had a pretty The only knock was still just like the arm length, but he had a pretty good r RAS too.
00:31:47
Snooty
Yeah, he had a have really, really good athletic score.
00:31:48
Bret
God.
00:31:51
Snooty
It's not perfect.
00:31:51
Bret
leave it boy Leave it to Snooty to get us to all of a sudden start thinking like linemen. All we're doing is we're just drafting linemen for days, all day, every day linemen.
00:31:56
Savage Boston
Well, Will Campbell, yeah, had a 9.88
00:32:02
Bret
Get those meatballs up front.
00:32:03
Snooty
What was the meme when the Lions were drafting when they took Panay Sewell? over Jamar Chase, it or or the the yeah Bengals took Chase over Sewell. It was like, you can put Sewell in front of anyone, he can throw to anybody, whoever the fuck is downfield.
00:32:13
Savage Boston
Yeah, throw down field.
00:32:18
Snooty
You put nobody in front of him, and you try to throw to Jamar Chase, you're going get fucking killed.
00:32:22
Savage Boston
Yeah.
00:32:23
Snooty
And guess what happened? He's been fucking killed.
00:32:28
Savage Boston
Yeah, Penne Sewell is another one, dude, where he, ah again, these are like the best, you know, the best linemen of the last bunch of years, right? His ah RAS was only, it says, only 8.98, but it was well known that he was elite.
00:32:41
Snooty
But the thing is, is like it's not just the athletic stuff. I mean, you're talking about guys who were incredibly like productive in college. Like, they dominated people in college.
00:32:51
Savage Boston
Yeah.
00:32:51
Bret
Yeah, I know.
00:32:51
Savage Boston
Fantastic. Yeah. They dominated.
00:32:53
Bret
That's what I'm saying.
00:32:53
Savage Boston
Oh,
00:32:54
Bret
We're talking about guys that are in the top five. like
00:32:56
Snooty
You're like, Trent Williams. Like, yeah, Trent Williams ran over the Big 12 for like three years, didn't he?
00:32:59
Savage Boston
he's a freak.
00:33:00
Bret
They aren't going to drop at 31.
00:33:01
Savage Boston
Yeah. He's a free is a total total freak. No pun total freak.
00:33:04
Bret
Which, speaking of Freak, by the way, A, did you see the video of Joe Thomas talking about...
00:33:11
Savage Boston
Armly.
00:33:11
Bret
You guys see the video of Joe Thomas talking about Will Campbell? basically saying it's not arm length going through.
00:33:16
Snooty
No.
00:33:17
Bret
So you talk about like one of the greatest right out there.
00:33:17
Savage Boston
i think
00:33:21
Bret
And he was basically saying it has nothing to do with arm length, nothing at all. It's all technique. And he was basically going through it. And on a side note, on a side note, Joe Thomas has lost a ton of weight.
00:33:29
Savage Boston
because Drew Thomas arms weren't that big either, you know?
00:33:31
Snooty
no
00:33:34
Bret
Like, holy shit, dude.
00:33:34
Savage Boston
Has he
00:33:36
Bret
He looks like night and day different.
00:33:38
Savage Boston
but dude
00:33:38
Bret
He's got a great beard, but yeah.
00:33:40
Savage Boston
he? Dude, the problem with that argument, and this is like, I understand the argument. I'm fine with people creating arguments, but if you're going have an argument, you have to use data for the argument. If you're going to like actually have a really strong argument, right?
00:33:53
Savage Boston
And so there's some pretty darn strong data that under 33 inch arms underneath that they players struggle at tackle we've had this data we had it you know they they know this this is why it's a huge sticking point and a lot of those guys get bumped inside and they can play guard really really well but it's so hard at the edge rolled if you have shorter arms and like they they know like how you know pro bowl all pro players and like arm length and where it correlates and what range like they have So much data that we don't have access to that they know all this information.
00:34:29
Savage Boston
Unless you get someone like Mike Vrabel, who even with all the data just says, I'm in love with Will Campbell, no matter what. like he He fell in love with the player. And hey, hopefully he has a good season next year. I think he should.
00:34:41
Savage Boston
i think I believe he will, and I think he should. And his knee should be hopefully healed up from that.
00:34:47
Bret
I mean, he's more – Frabel's more analytically driven than Mayo or Belichick were, and he went with them and with all that information.
00:34:53
Savage Boston
I don't know what drove Mayo. What was behind, what was the drive behind Mayo? It wasn't fucking analytics. and It wasn't football either. God knows what was going on that season.
00:35:03
Bret
He just wanted to be liked.
00:35:05
Snooty
I don't think anyone was driving the bus with Mayo.
00:35:08
Savage Boston
There was
Conclusion & Future Discussions
00:35:09
Savage Boston
no bus.
00:35:09
Snooty
I just think the bus...
00:35:09
Savage Boston
There was no bus.
00:35:11
Snooty
No, I think there was a bus and everybody got on and just nothing happened.
00:35:12
Savage Boston
It's a runaway bus.
00:35:15
Bret
everyone's yes Everyone's just driving down the road. And then we look around and we're like, who the fuck's driving this thing? No one.
00:35:23
Savage Boston
You had Elliot Wolfe handling discipline. I'll never get over that story. Like Elliot Wolfe has no business. Dude is like this little scout guy he just wants to sit in and watch film.
00:35:34
Savage Boston
And they and drawed males like, hey, Elliot, you want to take care of this problem with fucking Joe Milton or whatever, you know, whatever the fuck.
00:35:41
Bret
waiting for I'm waiting for those stories to start popping off where like someone says like just gets on a pod or whatever and basically says, yeah, I don't know. Like I was late for a positional meeting.
00:35:54
Bret
Next thing you know, i had to go into Elliot Wolf's office and he sat me down and he's trying to like talk to me, but he doesn't even know. You know what i mean? Like you just it would be the most obscure conversation.
00:36:02
Savage Boston
Yeah. don't think they want to rip him. Like, I don't think they want to kill like Matt. Like there was an article, I think again, it was probably Callahan and Kide after the season where they did like a dumping of the laundry after Mayo was out of there.
00:36:14
Bret
Oh,
00:36:15
Savage Boston
They're like, Hey, and then all the stories came out with how disorganized, but like, dude, I think even wasn't it like Evan Lazar who works for the Patriots and it said a quote like bunch of weeks in. He said, it's kind of like the inmates running the asylum.
00:36:29
Savage Boston
That's a Patriots worker for the team saying that I've never, can you like, that would have never happened with Belichick.
00:36:35
Bret
i
00:36:37
Savage Boston
Belichick would have probably fired her himself potentially.
00:36:40
Snooty
Well, I think, well, the circumstance around it would never would have happened under Belichick. And I think that's kind of why I think it's Belichick was such a hard ass, but again, we've not to rehab, we were going to play in all the hits tonight.
00:36:46
Savage Boston
Yeah.
00:36:52
Snooty
um Not to like, not to rehash it, but like, you know, you can be a hard ass if you guys are winning, right?
00:36:53
Savage Boston
what It's off season. Who cares?
00:36:59
Snooty
If the success is there, but like, once you start to lose, it's like, well, now you're just an asshole and we suck.
00:37:04
Savage Boston
yeah
00:37:05
Snooty
Like there's no benefit from it. Right. So like,
00:37:07
Savage Boston
yeah know You go from a hard ass to an asshole. That's your transition. As soon as you stop winning the quick transition.
00:37:12
Snooty
Right. So it's like, but then, so like, then they're just kind of sick of it. And then Mayo comes and everyone's like, yay. And it's like, yeah, but like, Mayo doesn't know what the fuck he's doing.
00:37:24
Snooty
Like he had no idea what he's doing.
00:37:24
Bret
Yeah.
00:37:25
Savage Boston
yeah
00:37:26
Snooty
I don't know at all what Mayo did.
00:37:26
Bret
There's no ful
00:37:28
Snooty
And like, look, he got paid. So it's hard for me to feel too bad for him. He's still getting paid. But like, come on, man. Like he had no fucking clue.
00:37:35
Savage Boston
I can't believe they gave the job.
00:37:36
Snooty
had no fucking clue what he was doing at all.
00:37:36
Savage Boston
can't believe they gave me the job. No, it's...
00:37:39
Bret
no. It's just, it's probably a good thing that he's just completely ghosted and like reports. I was just like being home with his family and taking time. I mean, like you said, he's getting paid.
00:37:51
Bret
We'll see if he gets back in the coaching scene and what that looks like, you know, become a positional coach, go to college ranks or whatever. i don't know if he has the appetite for it or maybe he'll just get out of it altogether.
00:38:04
Savage Boston
That's the interview we need though. Like that's a real, you want to talk an interview I need to listen to whoever get the first person to get Gerard Mayo on their show. First interview in like two years to be like, Hey, so what happened?
00:38:16
Savage Boston
Like, you want to break it down?
00:38:16
Bret
Well, and it's so weird because you go from a guy that was like a public figure before he went into coaching, like he was doing TV and like he was trying to become a ah local sports personality.
00:38:26
Savage Boston
Yeah. Yeah.
00:38:29
Bret
And all of a sudden he gets like swung back into coaching. And then he just like fast tracks like three years later, thing you know, he's the head coach. And it's like, what the fuck?
00:38:37
Savage Boston
By the way, the leaks the leaks were crazy that year. like There was shit leaking out everywhere. like i knew People had leaks from the crafts. people had like it was a It was a leaky ship. And now that Vrabel's in, man, it is not leaky.
00:38:51
Savage Boston
there is
00:38:51
Bret
No rats.
00:38:52
Savage Boston
It is tight, man.
00:38:52
Bret
No rats.
00:38:53
Savage Boston
And he's not fucking around. like If you know if you're getting information or if you're a reporter or have something, lot of times it's from other organizations dealing with them, not from them, unless they want you to have it You know what mean?
00:39:06
Snooty
Yeah.
00:39:06
Savage Boston
Like this is not, it's not a leaky ship and in a, in a great way.
00:39:06
Bret
Mm-hmm.
00:39:13
Savage Boston
mean, you don't, you don't want a leaky ship, but um all right, I guess we might as well just end it here and and call it a day. Leave us more. We've touched on, this was supposed to be a draft podcast. I believe we touched on one round and one position group in 40 minutes.
00:39:29
Savage Boston
So congratulations, everyone. a Fantastic draft preview.
00:39:32
Snooty
Well, it's 30 days to the draft, right?
00:39:34
Savage Boston
Yeah, we got, we'll just handle a new two round. We'll expound for it.
00:39:38
Snooty
ah this is This is night one, and then next week we'll do day two.
00:39:39
Bret
Yeah,
00:39:44
Savage Boston
Boom.
00:39:44
Bret
yeah night two.
00:39:44
Savage Boston
All
00:39:45
Bret
And then we'll go after that. Round's three, four.
00:39:49
Savage Boston
right, cool.
00:39:49
Snooty
Yeah.
00:39:49
Savage Boston
All right, well, hey, thanks for tuning in. We'll talk to you guys later. Peace.
00:39:54
Snooty
Yep.
00:39:54
Bret
Peace.