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It's the Thinking, Not the Thought
48 Plays4 days ago
What if the key to transformation isn’t changing our thoughts—but changing how we think?
In this episode of PRIME SPACE, Elias Scultori, MCC, is joined by Aaron Listhaus, ACC, for a thoughtful conversation exploring the distinction between individual thoughts and the patterns of thinking that shape them.
Together, they explore how clients often become trapped not by what they think, but by how they habitually think—patterns that quietly shape behavior, decision-making, and ultimately, life outcomes. Drawing from real client examples and the concept of “immunity to change,” Aaron reveals how coaches can help clients identify and shift the underlying cognitive habits that keep them stuck.
This episode moves beyond surface-level mindset work and into the deeper architecture of awareness—where lasting change actually occurs.
For professional coaches, this conversation sharpens the distinction between content and process—between what clients say and how they generate what they say. It reinforces a core truth of coaching: transformation is less about solving problems and more about evolving the system that produces them.
Chapters
02:56 – Why Thinking Patterns Matter More Than Thoughts
07:06 – Immunity to Change: Why We Stay Stuck
11:59 – Coaching the Pattern, Not the Content
14:27 – Shifting Perspective: Expanding the Client’s Lens
16:20 – The Marble Staircase: How Change Really Happens
Memorable Quotes
“It’s not the thought—it’s the thinking behind the thought.”
“Awareness gives you choice—and choice changes everything.”
“We don’t coach the problem; we coach the pattern that sustains it.”
“Lasting change isn’t a breakthrough moment—it’s a worn path, created over time.”
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Prime Space Podcast
00:00:02
Speaker
Welcome to Prime Space, a Prime Coaching Academy podcast with your host, Elias Skultori. Hello, coaches. Today I have a guest,
Meet Aaron Lithouse and His Coaching Philosophy
00:00:18
Speaker
Mr. Aaron LIsthaus Hello, Aaron.
00:00:22
Speaker
Hello, Elias. How are you? Very good. Aaron is speaking with us all the way from New York City. Hello, New York City. i was excited to bring Aaron here to the podcast because I met Aaron last year in the Gay Coaches Alliance Conference and we became great friends. And I'm We have traveled together and we have experienced so many wonderful things. I was able to spend a few times with Aaron and his husband in New York City for a couple of days. So Aaron, thank you so much for the friendship. And in conversation with Aaron listeners, i started understanding a little bit of the philosophy of coaching that Aaron brings to his practice.
Aaron's Coaching Focus and Background
00:01:07
Speaker
And I thought it would be wonderful to share that with you. so So that you understand a little bit of Aaron. Aaron is an executive and life coach. He is an ACC coach. He primarily works in partnership with two other coaches in Northern England, providing workshop courses and coaching to midlife women. The name of the company is Midlife Thriving.
00:01:30
Speaker
And Aaron is also trained in emotional intelligence. Before becoming a coach, Aaron was in the school and educational system as a teacher, principal, school supervisor, and and also as an executive director at a nonprofit organization that supported chartered schools.
00:01:51
Speaker
ah The nonprofit was there in New York City, I believe, right, Aaron? and But supporting charter schools around the country. Correct. That is a fabulous background here, Aaron. So thank you so much for this.
Aaron's Personal Fitness and Self-Improvement Journey
00:02:03
Speaker
One thing I always ask you something personal or about about my guests. And Aaron was saying, well, at 53 years old, I embarked in this fitness journey. I was never comfortable being in the gym, but now I have a personal trainer and I am on the gym Five days a week. That is amazing. Good for you.
00:02:22
Speaker
Thank you. It's great. it's ah I really enjoy challenging myself and particularly challenging my body to see what it will do.
00:02:34
Speaker
um And um I feel more fit now than I've ever fit felt in my life. That is fantastic. Thank you for that inspiration. This is wonderful.
00:02:45
Speaker
So, Aaron, here's the first question I have for you. What excites you about coaching?
00:02:56
Speaker
What excites me about coaching is the possibility that people can change the trajectory of their lives by changing their thoughts.
00:03:12
Speaker
I am a person committed to self-improvement all the time. And i love working on helping other people improve themselves. And so when people come to me um looking for coaching,
00:03:30
Speaker
They typically want to solve a problem, and usually it's ah it's a problem that they're facing that they don't know exactly what to do. And what I do is i take a look. I first start with what are their values?
Importance of Client Thought Patterns in Coaching
00:03:47
Speaker
Who do they want to be in this moment?
00:03:50
Speaker
And then I take a look and I ask them how they think about the challenge that they're facing. And what I pay attention to is not what their thoughts are.
00:04:04
Speaker
But I pay attention to what their thinking is. And so, for example, i just finished up with a client before who every time he thinks about engaging in a new behavior, creates a list of 10 reasons why it won't work.
00:04:25
Speaker
And my idea is not to get into a conversation about whether he's right or wrong about those ideas, but to notice that his first response is all the reasons why it can't work.
00:04:43
Speaker
Because that's a pattern that he's established in his life that is no longer serving him. And so my general idea is look at the thinking, not the actual thoughts, because the actual thoughts will change if you change the thinking process.
00:05:05
Speaker
And that is what I think is so beautiful about the way you verbalize this, because We've all heard the idea that we don't coach to the problem, we coach the person, right? That's another way of putting this. But you are very specific and you focus specifically on the habit that this person has created in the way they think or the way they approach the situations that are coming to them throughout their lives.
00:05:36
Speaker
That's right.
Fear of Change and 'Immunity to Change' Study
00:05:37
Speaker
One of the um processes that I've studied is something called immunity to change. And immunity to change looks at the reasons why people don't make the changes that they are motivated to work, that that that they are motivated to change. So it came out of a study that was done, I think, in the in the nineteen seventy s around patients being told by their cardiologist that they needed to make lifestyle changes immediately or they would suffer dire consequences. And the research bears out that about 30 percent of people are successful in making that change.
00:06:17
Speaker
So it asks the question, that other 70 percent, what holds them back? And oftentimes what holds them back is they have a worry about making the change that impacts their ability to make the change. So they're worried, for example, for people who are thinking about losing weight, for example. They worry about, let's say not being able to enjoy a meal.
00:06:49
Speaker
or not being agreeable to any suggestion for what they'd like to to eat. And they have a fear that they will be less likable.
00:07:01
Speaker
And that fear keeps people from making the changes. So that's another way of looking at the idea of what's the thinking behind the the idea, behind the thought.
00:07:15
Speaker
The other thing that came up for me is that the belief that the person carries, the belief that they are they are not going to be likable anymore. And therefore, all of the thought process that comes after that belief is on top of that belief. It's influenced by that original belief.
00:07:37
Speaker
That's right. And that's why people struggle to make this kind of change. It's like stepping on the gas and stepping at the brake at the same time, because they have the motivation to do it, but they have these thoughts that are creating obstacles to accomplishing the goal they want to accomplish.
00:07:57
Speaker
And without knowing that, because these things happen unconsciously, Folks are stuck with their foot on the gas and their foot on the brake at the same time, not going anywhere.
00:08:10
Speaker
That's why in coach training and in the coaching community at large, the proposition of coaching is about coaching the person, coaching the thought process more than the thought, because we can figure out Other ways of doing differently, like the medical doctor can say, you need to change your diet, you need to exercise more. But if we are not able to address the core issue, the foundational issue that is generating that particular habit, that particular thought process, it will never change.
00:08:44
Speaker
And that's why coaches don't have to have expertise in the areas that their clients are in. in order to be an effective coach. I once coached an architect, and at first he was reticent because I didn't know anything about architecture. and I said, look, if you're coming to me to be a better architect, I cannot help you. I can tell you that.
00:09:09
Speaker
But if you're coming to me because you want to be more effective in your work, you want to learn how to communicate more efficiently with people, you want to learn how to balance work-life commitments or those kinds of things, or you want to get better at saying no, or you want to get better at focusing on your own agenda rather than other people's agendas. Those are the things I can work with because that's where coaching exists, is in that space.
00:09:39
Speaker
And if you if you want to gain greater awareness of the way you process information or the way you approach certain challenges, then coaching can be tremendously powerful and can even influence the way you are designing your architectural projects.
Challenging Client Perspectives and Lenses
00:10:00
Speaker
That's right.
00:10:01
Speaker
It's wonderful because by allowing and giving our clients the space for them to go deeper, and explore their their thinking process and explore the core of what is generating that thought or what's bringing them to that particular moment, we are giving the client the power to be able to change anything, any decision that they make moving from that that point on.
00:10:28
Speaker
That's right. That's right. And our work isn't relegated to just the topic at hand. It changes how people think about their lives in general. And, you know, the same with me with, say, working out at the gym.
00:10:43
Speaker
I used to think that I couldn't do all of those things. I couldn't lift those weights. I couldn't do those exercises. And that was that was a limit that I had that little by little, I got to explore the fact that that limit may have existed, but actually right now it no longer serves me.
00:11:04
Speaker
But understanding that that pattern existed in my brain so that when those thoughts came up, I also needed to have a strategy for how to distract myself from those thoughts or not listen to them, ignore them.
00:11:20
Speaker
So with awareness, now you have a better choice for yourself. Now you can make different choices for yourself. So I love, I'm going to emphasize here the title of this podcast, of this episode. It's the thinking.
00:11:34
Speaker
It's not the thought itself. And it's the person, not the issue. It's what is happening. It's the human being, not the story, the context around it. That is what is going to be most powerful to our clients in the process at large. So, Aaron, okay, wonderful thinking.
00:11:55
Speaker
How do you do this with your clients? So what I do is i will repeat back, not the thoughts, but the pattern I notice in the thinking.
00:12:11
Speaker
When we talk about a new behavior, you immediately latch on why it won't work. Why is that?
00:12:24
Speaker
Other questions. What's the story you tell yourself about trying something new? And it's really about understanding the psychology of the client when they face a challenge that you're trying to face.
00:12:44
Speaker
it's It's stretching their paradigm because the client is looking at the world and looking at the things that are happening in their lives through one particular lens that they've got God knows when in their in their lives.
00:12:59
Speaker
They got that lens. And then no matter what shows up in front of them, they are going to see that situation through that particular lens. If we are not able to challenge that lens and if the client is not able to become aware that there is a lens,
00:13:15
Speaker
And to check, is this the lens that I want? Can I change the lens? Can I put a different lens here? What are other lenses that I can put in front of me so that I can see situations differently?
00:13:27
Speaker
Until the client has the ability and the awareness to see that there is a lens, a specific lens, nothing is going to change. We can create numerous processes. We can create numerous actions, but it will end up being the same thing.
00:13:44
Speaker
And so you're you're reminding me of another conversation I had with a client this week who was struggling with the idea that she and her boss do not trust each other and she wants to be promoted to a higher position.
00:14:01
Speaker
And her way of thinking is incredibly analytic. This is what I can do. These are my skill sets. This is what needs to get done, et cetera, et cetera.
00:14:13
Speaker
And when I asked her the question, what do you think is going on with your boss when you propose that? She had never thought about that.
00:14:27
Speaker
It's such a fabulous question because in that moment you put her in the position of her boss, ah changed her paradigm, changed the way she was thinking.
00:14:39
Speaker
That's right. That's right. Because she was so focused on making the case for why she should do it and not at all focused on what does her boss need to know from her to allow him to give up the control that he's holding on to.
00:14:59
Speaker
We as human beings, we live in this space between our ears, twenty four seven And we believe, we tend to believe that whatever happens in this little teeny beanie space between our years is the universe.
00:15:18
Speaker
Yeah, that's right. That's right. That is the beauty of coaching because coaching with a professionally trained coach, someone can come and challenge that point of view and broaden our horizons and support us in seeing that there are other ways of seeing that particular situation.
00:15:38
Speaker
That's exactly right. So, Aaron, we are getting close to the end of our conversation here.
The Impact of Small, Consistent Changes
00:15:45
Speaker
What is the core message that you would like the listeners to leave with?
00:15:50
Speaker
That you can change your thought patterns with small, consistent changes every day. That's a beautiful message, which means it doesn't have to be life-changing insight that has to happen to that client in every coaching session. But it is little by little and noticing what's happening here that we are going to grow and we are going to develop. Coaching is a process, not in one event.
00:16:20
Speaker
That's right. If I can if I can give you a quick story and a metaphor. One of my early teaching jobs was in a school that had been built in 1898 students would enter into the basement and there would be two staircases to go up to their classrooms. And those staircases were marble.
00:16:43
Speaker
because the school had been around for so long, you could see the grooves that in the marble where the you know millions of student trips up those staircase had worn away the marble. And that idea always stays with me.
00:17:01
Speaker
That if you want to affect change in something in a very, very hard service, the only thing that's effective is wearing it away over time.
00:17:12
Speaker
And so that's the sort of living embodiment of small, consistent changes over time. That's a wonderful analogy, Aaron.
Conclusion and Call to Action
00:17:23
Speaker
Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts here with us. Thank you so much for the work that you do and for the commitment that you have to coaching. Listeners, thank you so much for listening. Don't forget to subscribe and share these episodes with other coaches. And i will see you next time.
00:17:41
Speaker
Take care.