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Where Coaching Becomes Art
71 Plays25 days ago
In this episode of PRIME SPACE, Elias Scultori, MCC, is joined by executive coach, supervisor, and abstract artist Cecilia McKay, PCC, for a conversation that extends beyond language into the realms of perception, intuition, and creation.
Together, they explore coaching as an art form—where presence replaces performance, and where the unexpected becomes an invitation rather than a disruption. Cecilia shares how her artistic practice informs her coaching: letting go of rigid plans, listening beyond the intellect, and responding to what is emerging in the moment.
This dialogue challenges coaches to reconsider their reliance on words and to expand their practice through other forms of expression—objects, movement, environment, and imagination. What happens when we stop trying to “get it right” and instead allow the coaching conversation to unfold like a canvas?
A reflective and provocative exploration of humanity, creativity, and the courage to meet the unknown—together.
Chapters
02:30 – Where Art Meets Coaching
06:00 – Letting Go of the “Perfect Coach”
11:40 – Beyond Words: Expanding the Coaching Space
16:30 – Reclaiming Humanity in Coaching
Memorable Quotes
“It’s a space where expression meets inquiry—and creativity becomes a pathway of self-discovery.”
“If you stay only in the intellect, what doors are you closing?”
“Everything is information—if you’re willing to notice it.”
“When we try to be the perfect coach, we miss the whole story.”
“It’s not about creating your picture or their picture—it’s what emerges between you.”
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Prime Space Podcast
00:00:02
Speaker
Welcome to Prime Space, a Prime Coaching Academy podcast with your host, Elias Scultori. So hello, coaches.
Introducing Cecilia McCabe
00:00:15
Speaker
i have a guest today and her name is Cecilia McKay Hello, Cecilia.
00:00:22
Speaker
Hello, Elias. How are you? I am doing great. It's such a joy to have you here with with us. I have been thinking and planning to bring you into the podcast for a long time. So thank you for accepting my invitation.
00:00:38
Speaker
It's a pleasure. I've been looking forward to this one too. Yes. Cecilia is a PCC coach. She is an executive coach and a coach supervisor with over 25 years of experience working with senior leaders globally.
Cecilia's Background
00:00:56
Speaker
Cecilia is originally from Mexico, but she lives in Canada now. ah She has a b a and an MA in art history.
00:01:07
Speaker
She uniquely integrates a static intelligence, leadership development, and supervision into her practice.
00:01:18
Speaker
Additionally, Cecilia is an abstract artist, an avid hiker, exploring the intersection of art, presence, and coaching as practices of disciplined perception.
00:01:33
Speaker
Her work encourages leaders and coaches to reconnect with their humanity.
Elias on Inviting Cecilia
00:01:40
Speaker
while striving for mastery. I love your your description, Cecilia, and I love your bio. Thank you so much for for that. It's an honor, and thank you for the introduction.
00:01:52
Speaker
I brought Cecilia here, ah coaches, because as you can see in the little description that I shared with you, Cecilia is an abstract artist and a coach and an experienced coach. So I was very curious being an artist myself.
00:02:11
Speaker
I was very curious with Cecilia's work and approach in connecting and and coaching. And you've heard me say here and in Prime Space so all the time, this idea that coaching is an art form.
What is the Intersection of Art and Coaching?
00:02:28
Speaker
So Cecilia, here's the first question for you. what is What is the intersection of art and coaching for you?
00:02:37
Speaker
Very simple. It's a space where expression meets inquiry and creativity becomes a pathway of self-discovery.
00:02:49
Speaker
When you think of coaching, you you come into a space. And sometimes, or most of the times, we don't know what is going to happen in this space.
00:03:03
Speaker
Similar to a canvas. um when Especially my kind of art is very intuitive. i never have a plan before I started painting. And if I have a plan, it never happens. Exactly.
00:03:19
Speaker
So it is something that you have to really play with your intuition and really play with what's present in the space, in in in the moment.
Spontaneity and Intuition in Art and Coaching
00:03:31
Speaker
What I mean by it's where expression means inquiry because in a coaching space, when you're beyond the questions, you The inquiry can be an intervention or can be something else that is shared in the space to invite people in a path of self-discovery and to mirror back what you see or perceive in the space.
00:04:00
Speaker
In my art, when I have the canvas in front of me, and it takes me months, and sometimes even after I think I'm done, there's it there's painting that I have done again. And just, I kept a place where I say, oh, this is where the painting is going to start.
00:04:19
Speaker
And I don't care about the rest that I have. I'm not attached to the rest. And even though my husband or my family has, why did you repaint it? That was beautiful. I'm like, it was not done.
00:04:30
Speaker
You know, it's in that path of self-discovery where there's something that I'm feeling that opens up doors for something else. And that's where I feel it intersects.
00:04:43
Speaker
um i am just paying attention to the spontaneity. I'm paying attention to the intuition, the letting go, the being in the moment and looking at this idea that it doesn't have to go one way or it doesn't have to be perfect in one specific way, but you are listening to what the art or the painting is telling you in the moment and responding to it
Lessons from Art for Coaching
00:05:16
Speaker
accordingly.
00:05:17
Speaker
Intellectually, you say, how can a painting talk to you? It doesn't make any sense. right its But it's the same in coaching. You know, you can stay and in here, in the mind.
00:05:30
Speaker
and intellectually, something might not make sense. But if you stay there, then what doors are you closing? Right. Because obviously there is a discrepancy between what you're thinking, it doesn't make sense, and what you're feeling.
00:05:49
Speaker
If you are courageous enough to say, hmm, there's discrepancy, let's figure out what that is. And can I use it? can i this Can I, myself as a coach, and maybe that's what my client is experiencing.
00:06:05
Speaker
and And try to explore that, that opens possibilities. So it's almost like that you keep the door open for what is showing up in the moment and you respond to it accordingly. It's almost like your art has trained you to be in the moment and not be so rigid about things It has to be this way. has to be that way. Or this is the answer. Or this is exactly the picture that I want to to design. But instead, you let the process organically unfold. And you're responding to whatever happens. You paint it this way. You drop the paint in one way. And then because you notice that, all of a sudden, you get a response to do the next brush in a different way.
00:07:01
Speaker
That's correct. Yes. One of the paintings that people like the most, what happened without me even realizing that that was what the painting was, how the painting was evolving. I was not planning. I was painting a different painting and I had that painting underneath, you know, and all the drops of water and paint kept dropping in that one.
00:07:23
Speaker
And then I stopped and said, oh, I love, I know what's happening down here. not planned. But then I started, you know, working with that. and And sometimes I think when we're very fixated in showing up as a perfect coach, making sure that we are present, we miss the whole story.
00:07:41
Speaker
Everything is information. So you have to go beyond your mind, beyond only your intuition, beyond only the noise, beyond only the silence. You know, when you start incorporating all of that into the coaching, it's when you're actually present, not when you think you have to be present.
00:08:02
Speaker
And notice those things. What's the disruption? What is the thing that is taking me away? And maybe bring that into the inquiry. Because maybe there's a parallel process that's happening.
00:08:19
Speaker
And if you disregard that, there was a missed opportunity to for exploration and self-inquiry.
Creating Together with Clients
00:08:29
Speaker
I think that what you're saying here in the lesson that I'm getting from this conversation is this idea of what are the thoughts, the expectations, the rules, the supposed to's that we bring to coaching and that it's actually preventing us from being present and being in the moment.
00:08:54
Speaker
It seems to me that art has given you this lesson of responding to whatever is happening in the moment and then creating based on what is happening in the moment. And that is a great lesson for coaching.
00:09:10
Speaker
I don't know what my client is going to bring. I don't know what is the unexpected point that is going to show up next. And i am going to respond accordingly. And I'm going to dance in the moment with that. And we together, client and I, will create this picture together.
00:09:27
Speaker
It's not going to be my picture. It's not going to be what I expect it to be. Because there is another element and another person here. And for us to be okay with that idea that we are creating together. And it's going to be something that it's not what we plan to be.
00:09:45
Speaker
Hmm. I love that. When you introduced me, you mentioned the connection to humanity. And I think what you just described is when we stop defining ourselves, it's what allows us to create ah canvas or painting with the other.
00:10:05
Speaker
In coaching, if you're really connecting to another human being, it doesn't matter barriers that are present. yeah It's good to acknowledge them.
00:10:16
Speaker
It's good to know they exist because they do. You know, we at the end, we live in this complex systems of systems that that we cannot ignore.
00:10:27
Speaker
But at the end, There's a deeper sense of becoming with somebody else or partnering with somebody else, just like a canvas is.
00:10:42
Speaker
yeah This idea of the labels that you mentioned as pieces of information, but not necessarily attaching assumptions together with those labels.
00:10:58
Speaker
As you said earlier, this whole idea, everything is information in coaching. The labels are information too, but then I am am i expecting a fixed outcome of that particular person, of myself,
00:11:12
Speaker
Because I carry that label of because my client carries that label. Can I be free or let go of these assumptions to be able to create that picture together? a new picture, something different together. That's the humanity that I'm getting from what you're saying there.
How Can Art Enhance Coaching?
00:11:31
Speaker
Yeah. Yes. I'm wondering here, Cecilia, if you use art directly in your coaching, Or how do you see the possibility of utilizing different media other than language in our coaching?
00:11:48
Speaker
Yeah, I think as I mature as a coach, I'm realizing that there's a lot of possibilities when it comes to inviting the person to do more with their bodies and their expression.
00:12:04
Speaker
That sometimes is not easy when you're not trained to do just with the mind. And I have found that it does help um them. And then that also opens door for them to bring more or use more of other media that is available to them, even in their desk, on their desk or in their landscape.
00:12:25
Speaker
It doesn't have to be complex. It's something that they are, they're seeing every day. It doesn't have to be too complicated. i think sometimes we overcomplicate ourselves when sometimes it's what is in your desk? Why are those things important to you? Or Or why do you have them? Or why is your desk empty?
00:12:42
Speaker
You know, things like that could also invite person to get out of their their intellectual space and access other areas that are very helpful for coaching.
00:12:56
Speaker
We as coaches need to be very mindful that we are very attached to language as our tool. We use words. But even in the words, even in our language, we use other tools. We use stories. We use metaphors. We use experiences. We use ideas, all of this, to support the client's exploration,
00:13:20
Speaker
A photograph, a piece of music, an object that is on the client's desk, a piece of art, anything can be an opportunity or another tool for exploration as well that will disrupt the client's present point of view and be able to see it differently. Nowadays, we see people going on walking coaching. You know, you coach and you are while you're walking on in nature. In nature, yeah.
Broadening Perspectives with Diverse Tools
00:13:50
Speaker
And then whatever is happening within the path, perhaps there is a plant, there there is a leaf or a flower or something that can be utilized in the coaching conversation.
00:14:01
Speaker
Somatic coaching, utilizing our bodies is another one, another way to utilize different media, different opportunities to enrich the coaching conversation and to enrich the opportunity for discovery with a client. So this is a good wake-up call for all of us.
00:14:19
Speaker
As coaches, our listeners as well, what else besides language can you utilize in your coaching to support your clients and perhaps be spontaneous? Like you never know that all of a sudden there is an object in front of you that you can bring to the coaching conversation or invite the client to bring that into the into the conversation.
00:14:42
Speaker
Yeah, I think most of our clients are in corporate and they're so focused on performance and performance and performance. So they have learned to be expected of, to to show up with that mindset. And I think with all these tools, you invite them to the reflection space and you you allow them to say, it's not only about performance. There's so much more that impacts performance. And when we take them away from that mindset,
00:15:12
Speaker
I think that can start to crack certain opportunities. The primary goal of coaching is to disrupt the client's way of seeing the situation from only one single angle and be able to either widen that angle or be able to see the situation from a different perspective. That's what we are doing in coaching.
00:15:38
Speaker
So, yes, we utilize language as our primary tool, but we can utilize anything else that as long as supports the client into broadening their horizon, so be it Let's let utilize it, be a metaphor, be ah an object, be ah a picture, be a song, be a flower in the middle of the of the path, whatever it is that supports the client into broadening their horizon, I think it's fair game.
Future Directions for Coaching
00:16:05
Speaker
And I am looking forward to seeing as we think of the future of coaching to see other coaches experimenting with different tools to enrich the experience of the client.
00:16:18
Speaker
I'm thinking here also the whole work with Lego Serious Play. We had Paul Sambar here at the Prime Space to talk to us about that. It's another way of utilizing different tools to support the client's discovery.
Authenticity in Coaching
00:16:35
Speaker
Cecilia, as we are closing our conversation, what is the core message that you want to leave our listeners with? we think the question that is emerging is, what do we keep?
00:16:50
Speaker
What do we use? Why do we reclaim? And why what do we discover? And I know there are a lot of questions, but if you take one at a time,
00:17:04
Speaker
Give yourself first the opportunity to be you, to do you, to bring your humanity into the coaching space because there's nobody else like you and you're a gift to that other human in front of you.
00:17:21
Speaker
And if you give yourself the permission to play, to explore, to use your resources, I think that's what is going to continue to um evolve in your coaching practice and allow you to make magic in the space.
00:17:39
Speaker
Oh, that's wonderful. The authenticity of ourselves, meeting the authenticity of our clients and together we create art.
00:17:51
Speaker
I appreciate that. Thank you so much, Cecilia. Thank you so much for bringing your experience here to us.
Closing and Call to Action
00:17:57
Speaker
Listeners, thank you so much for listening to this podcast and please subscribe and share this with other coaches.
00:18:05
Speaker
I will see you next time.