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28: Two Public High School Students Discuss Their Faith Walk
265 Plays3 years ago
Ryan Pfendler and Jill Devine invited the next generation to sit down and chat about the faith of the next generation. Audrey Fleetwood and Jenna Smith are two public high school students who opened up to Ryan and Jill about their faith walk, what they want from adult ministry leaders, and what they want their parents to know and understand about them.
Ryan is the Director of Student & Young Adult Ministry at Messiah St. Charles. Ryan’s ministry believes that following Jesus is the way young people grow into the best version of themselves. He wants every teenager to belong to a community of faith where they can learn who Jesus is, and discover the purpose He has for them now and as they grow.
Highlights from the episode include:
*Stepping away from Christianity
*The Public & Private School divide
*Being called the “Jesus Girl”
*Loneliness
*Parents need to let their teenager experience hurt
*Multiple reasons for teenagers being stressed
*Knowing trends is not necessary to connect (Example: ASMR - Autonomous sensory meridian response)
*Adults need to make their faith personal to teenagers
Messiah Middle School Website: https://messiahstcharles.org/middle-school/
Messiah High School Website: https://messiahstcharles.org/high-school/
Normal Goes A Long Way Website: https://www.normalgoesalongway.com/
Normal Goes A Long Way Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/normalgoesalongway/
Normal Goes A Long Way Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Normal-Goes-A-Long-Way-110089491250735
Normal Goes A Long Way is brought to you by Messiah St. Charles: https://messiahstcharles.org/
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Transcript
Introduction and Podcast Purpose
00:00:00
Speaker
The following podcast is a Jill Devine Media production. Christianity has become known for judgy people, strange words, ancient stories, confusing rules, and a members-only mindset. This is why I stayed away from the church for so long, but it's not supposed to be that way. I'm Jill Devine, a former radio personality with three tattoos, a love for a good tequila, and who's never read the entire Bible.
00:00:24
Speaker
Yet here I am hosting a podcast about faith. The Normal Goes Along Way podcast is your home for real conversations with real people using real language about how faith and real life intersect. Welcome to the conversation.
00:00:40
Speaker
Welcome to normal goes a long way. I'm your host Jill Devine.
Faith of the Next Generation
00:00:44
Speaker
And in the last episode, I had Ryan Finler on with Laura Fleetwood and we were talking about the faith of the next generation specifically grades six through 12, correct Ryan? That is correct. Yeah. You're like, don't throw those babies in there. We feel it's super important to talk about the faith of the next generation and the impact it's going to make
00:01:08
Speaker
on the world, the impact it's going to make on people around us. So we can't do that without hearing from the next generation. So we talked about how we were going to have some high school students come in.
High School Student Perspectives
00:01:21
Speaker
And today is the day, our very first episode with high school students. We're going to have guys, we're going to have gals, but we're going to start with the gals today. So go ahead, Ryan, take it away. I have been really excited for this day for a while, so I'm glad it's here. But as Jill mentioned,
00:01:37
Speaker
We're getting guys, we're getting girls, but we're getting people from different backgrounds. I wanted to make sure we had some different voices coming in. So we've got kids who have been plugged into our church's student ministry for a long time. We've got people coming in who are pretty new to it. We've got public school kids. We've got private school kids. We've got a teacher coming on. So we've got a lot of different voices. But today we've got two public school girls, Audrey and Jenna. And I'm really excited to talk to you today.
00:02:07
Speaker
But why don't you tell us a little bit about yourselves and tell us about where you go to school, anything that you might be involved in there, and use one word to describe the other person.
00:02:20
Speaker
I'm Jenna. I go to Fort Zumwalt South High School. It's a little outside of St. Louis, and I'm not really involved in anything like inside my school, but I'm involved with a lot of church things outside of my school. I grew up going to Zion Lutheran School, which is kind of like a sister brother school to Messiah. And for some reason, God drove me to Messiah my high school years to go to church and find their student ministry, which was really cool.
00:02:51
Speaker
And yeah, so that's how I kind of got plugged in. God just kind of took me to Messiah and moved me from Zion, but my mom still works at Zion, so it's pretty cool. Audrey is with me and I have to describe her in one word. And the first word that always comes to mind is spontaneous. And it's just, it's like, I feel like there's a lot of different spontaneous people. Like there's the ones that like,
00:03:15
Speaker
always love to talk about it and are so proud of it and then there's the ones that are proud of it but like humble about it and they're ones that are kind of like afraid to show people because I feel like especially with the older generation it's kind of looked down upon as our generation has become more spontaneous and more
00:03:34
Speaker
we can do whatever our mind is set to. So I would definitely describe her as spontaneous, because she always, if her mind is set on something, she's gonna do it, and she's gonna do her best to fulfill it, and if it's in God's will, it'll happen, so yeah. She gets very excited very quickly about things, and then she's all about it. For sure. Uh-huh. So Audrey, why don't you tell us a little
School and Church Involvement
00:03:56
Speaker
bit about you?
00:03:56
Speaker
I am about to be a senior and I go to Liberty, which is in Wentzville, a suburb of St. Louis. I'm involved in DECA, which is a business club. I've been in there for two years. This will be my third year. And I'm also in student council. I'm going to have a leadership position this year, so that's very exciting.
00:04:15
Speaker
My mom works at Messiah and she has since I was like in kindergarten or preschool. So I went to Messiah for grade school and I go to church on Sundays. I go to Messiah PM. I'm very connected with the church. I love serving there.
00:04:33
Speaker
So that's how I'm connected to Messiah. And then to describe Jenna, I think I would say she is very energetic. She always has energy no matter what time of day it is. She's just always down to do whatever with me, which goes well together since I am spontaneous. She is also spontaneous and will do those things with me. So we're a pretty good pair.
00:04:56
Speaker
I can tell from the way your faces reacted that you both agree with those descriptions of each other. But I would agree that you are spontaneous, Audrey, and Jenna. I would agree that you're energetic. You bring a level of energy to our student ministry environment that I just think is fun.
00:05:12
Speaker
I think I have a picture on my phone of you literally carrying with another student, carrying a new high schooler off the stage after an eating challenge, which is great. That's the kind of energy you want. But Audrey, you mentioned Messiah PM. And for those of you that don't go to Messiah, don't go to our church, aren't from the St. Louis area, that's the name of our high school ministry. We meet Sunday nights. It's a space for 9th through 12th graders.
00:05:37
Speaker
And our mission with that ministry, with that group, from the get-go has been to create a space where students could come, and specifically I wanted to be a space where students could invite their friends.
00:05:51
Speaker
I have always wanted to create a student ministry that was open to outsiders. That wasn't just for kids that went through our church. It wasn't just for kids in our small little town, in our little zip code, but I wanted people from across our county coming to this. And, you know, Audrey, when we kind of started going down this path of
00:06:17
Speaker
exploring how to make a better space for friends. You know, I told you guys and I told you and a few of our other students, I'm not going to be the one that gets others here. I'm not going to be the one that gets the next generation here. It's going to be you guys. You are
00:06:33
Speaker
the missionaries, you're the ones in the schools out in the field. If I show up to a school to invite a kid to something, it's going to be weird. It's going to be awkward, but you get the chance to be in those spaces where I don't get to be. So that's what intrigued me about y'all story.
00:06:48
Speaker
because Jenna, you kind of ended up at Messiah through your friendship with, with Audrey. Tell us a little bit about your friendship and how you got connected. And then Jenna, if you would also tell us how you got connected to Messiah through that.
00:07:04
Speaker
Yeah, so we both work at Messiah's on the school side there after school care. And so we started working together at the beginning of last year. So that's where we met. And then in November, December of this year, I invited her to PM. And so Jenna came to PM and she met all of my friends. And then she really just hit it off with them. And we've been one big friend group ever since.
00:07:32
Speaker
And Jenna, you kind of got plugged in then, since then your brother started coming as well. Cade, great guy. Throughout the years, you know, I've had a lot of students, they come, they come once or twice, and then I don't see them again. And it's great that we get to meet them and reach them that one or two times.
00:07:52
Speaker
But for you, you came and you've kept coming. What was it for you that drew you to our space? And now you've been coming pretty regularly for like eight months now.
00:08:04
Speaker
Yeah, so definitely at first what kept me coming is like the newness of it because like it was new and I was like this is like interesting, intriguing, like I don't know what's gonna happen and then once I kind of got used to it like my biggest thing about faith is like consistency and how like
00:08:24
Speaker
you can talk your talk and walk your walk but like if there's no consistency shown then like there's not really a foundation that you can always is always built on your back so knowing and having that like not motivation but that drive to just
00:08:41
Speaker
go to a place full of Christian teens is so powerful and something that I know that both my brother and I need. Since we do go to public school, which there are plenty of Christians there, it's just having a good solid atmosphere of Christians consistently once a week is really nice. And I also go to church on Wednesdays, as long as along with Sundays and just having that like,
00:09:07
Speaker
constant mark on my calendar, I'm gonna be around the people that love my God just as much as I do is something that I build my faith on, so that is why I continue to go. I have to. Step in Jill, please step in. Okay, so you both grew up in the faith. Yes. Okay, and so do you believe
00:09:35
Speaker
that is truly the foundation to where you are right now in your life. Or something that I see a lot is kids
Journey of Faith and Personal Growth
00:09:44
Speaker
grow up in the faith, they grow up in the church, and then they step away at your age. So I don't know, I'm very intrigued by this.
00:09:55
Speaker
I'll say something. I admit this because I think it's really important to have honest Christians. I feel like a lot of Christians hide behind walls because they are scared that people are going to call them hypocrites. Every Christian is a hypocrite. Every Christian goes against what they stand for, what they believe in, what God wants for them.
00:10:16
Speaker
But there was a time in high school, in my early high school years, where I definitely took a step away from faith. And I don't know if I ever, growing up, if I was ever fully rock solid with my faith and relationship with Jesus. And I don't know if that's just because now it's so much stronger than it's ever been, that it's compared to back then it was nothing.
00:10:38
Speaker
but I definitely took a big step away and taking that step away was something that you don't notice until you fully hit rock bottom unless you're very lucky and so when I realized
00:10:53
Speaker
what is going on, I used to, just my childhood and how little me would have pictured myself was not where I was. And so I went to church and just, it was Jesus' open arms to every sinful human being, every different, whether, no matter how you look, no matter what you,
00:11:22
Speaker
Surround yourself with, no matter what you do, like Jesus is there. And having that said to you repeatedly is something that I think a lot of people need. And whenever you come back, you feel very shamed. And that's one thing that no Christian should ever feel. That's what no one should feel. Shame is almost basically a sin. You should never feel shame. You should feel convicted, for sure. But shame is something that I,
00:11:51
Speaker
like feel for other Christians and I think when you come back from the step back like you're never too far gone and that's what I really believe in you're never too far gone. I want to say this too it might not be the only time in your life you step away there have been some moments in my life where you just see God differently or your life is going a different direction and you're like maybe if I step back maybe if I didn't have
00:12:19
Speaker
this authority in my life overlooking me, life would be better. And I remember there were moments in college where I wanted to step away. And there was a moment after college where I thought, man, I really don't want to do ministry because it's going to require a lot of accountability, a lot of faith, and it'd be nice to just coast. But there were always moments in both of those spaces, in college, after college, moments in high school where God stepped in.
00:12:49
Speaker
and reminded me of His grace and His love and reminded me that, man, pursuing this is worth it. And so if you hit that moment again, just remember that God is still as gracious and loving to you in that moment as He was in that past moment. Audrey, though, I want to know from you, did you ever have any moments like that? Are you in a moment like that? If you are, that's great. You can be who you are. But tell me about your faith walk.
00:13:18
Speaker
Yeah, I kind of am in a moment like that right now. I grew up in the church. My mom was a church worker. I went to Sunday school. I could say all the Bible verses. And I went to a Lutheran private school, Messiah, for grade school. And then I went to Lutheran High for my freshman year of high school. So I was surrounded in this little Lutheran bubble. And I love my friends still that are in that bubble.
00:13:47
Speaker
But then sophomore year, I transferred to Liberty, which is a public school. And that opened my eyes to so many different ideas and beliefs, which is part of why I transferred because I knew that there were people out there who were not like me and I wanted to get to know them. But that also introduced me to all these different ideas that I had no idea existed. So right now, after being exposed to all of that, I'm kind of
00:14:14
Speaker
I'm just intrigued by them and I'm kind of exploring them. And I know that I am a Christian and I know that I believe in God, but being surrounded by people that don't believe has just opened my eyes to there are people that aren't Christians. And now I need to figure out what I truly believe and what I was basically just told growing up in the church.
00:14:38
Speaker
Yeah. You're starting to own your own thoughts for yourself and you're thinking, okay, I was raised with this stuff. Now I'm my own person. I'm becoming my own person. What do I actually believe? And maybe there are teachings of Jesus that you grew up hearing in Sunday school. You grew up hearing in church that you're going back to and thinking, wait a minute, what does this actually mean when it comes to, to, to real life? What does this actually mean?
00:15:07
Speaker
I want to ask, though, about the public school question, which is big. And let me set the stage for our audience real quick, because I grew up on the East Coast. The idea that there's a public-private school divide was lost on me growing up. There was never any sort of culture where I grew up that, oh, there are certain types of people go to public school, certain types of people go to private school. I didn't really see the world that way.
00:15:35
Speaker
But I moved now to the St. Louis area and that is a big divide. Do you send your kids to public school? Do you send your kids to private school? Do you send your kids to public school and watch them all walk away from their faith and do things you don't want them to do? And do you see them go to private school and become perfect little angels? Like that's the mindset some people have and it's funny to me. And yet it's how some people think. They think that if you go into public school, you're just going to walk away from your faith. And the best thing for your faith is to just go to private school.
00:16:05
Speaker
I'm still learning what it's like to live in a culture like that. But for you too, in your public school spaces, what is it like being a Christian in a public school? It's not as bad as I thought it would be. I thought I was going to be totally alone and like the only Christian, but I've met so many people who are Christians at public school. But are you open about your Christianity? That is a great question.
00:16:33
Speaker
I am not forward with it. I don't tell people I'm a Christian, but somehow people just kind of find out I'm a Christian. I mean, it's in my Instagram and stuff like that, so they just kind of know. Actually, the first time that I was public about my Christianity with my public school friends was a few weekends ago. One of my friends who was not a Christian planned a pro-choice rally.
Expressing Beliefs Publicly
00:17:00
Speaker
and I attended it and while I was there she opened the floor to anybody who wanted to speak and so I got up in front of all these people who were there for the pro-choice rally and I told them that I was a Christian and I honestly don't really remember anything else that I said
00:17:19
Speaker
But that was a really interesting point and I was talking to my mom about it after because I was there to support my friends and she had posted stuff about the rally on social media and I wanted to repost it, but I felt like I couldn't because I grew up in the church and I was so connected to the church.
00:17:38
Speaker
And I know those are political issues and it's a very touchy subject, but just things like that kind of separating the intrigue of learning about other people and having your own Christian beliefs and kind of identifying with your own personal church and not really having those two mix is kind of a tough border to walk, especially when you're in public school.
00:17:58
Speaker
What was your motivation? So your friend put on this rally. So what was that urge within you to go be present there? What would you tie that to? I really just wanted to support her. Like she is one of my best friends at that school. And a part of me wanted to see what it was like because I've never been to any movement or rally or anything like that. And I knew it was local and on a smaller scale. So I just thought it would be interesting to attend. And part of me,
00:18:28
Speaker
I mean, I don't know honestly where I am on that stance, so I just kind of wanted to show up and see what other people's point of views were. I love surrounding myself by people who think all kinds of ways, partially so I can form my own opinions, but also just to see the other ways that other people think. Some people might be listening to that story and taking a side
00:18:50
Speaker
and thinking, one side's right, one side's wrong on this thing. And I think that it's in moments like that that I'm reminded of what was the most popular verse of the early church, the most popular teaching of Jesus, which is to love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you. And some people might feel like,
00:19:13
Speaker
Christians, especially, they might feel like they are set against the pro-choice crowd. What does Jesus say to do with people like that? To love them and pray for them. To actually pray for their well-being. To pray that they're going to be happy and live fulfilling lives. That's the calling that Jesus puts on us.
00:19:36
Speaker
I don't know where you necessarily side in this, Audrey. I don't know where our listeners might be siding. And it's probably all over the spectrum. But I think that that is an important moment to remember. And I wonder how often our churches point our teens to that teaching. That, hey, the most important teaching for the early followers of the church was to love their enemies. So what does that look like to love someone who might not believe the same way as you?
00:20:06
Speaker
As you were talking, I just thought that was the image I had in my mind. I always had in my mind at a rally like that.
00:20:14
Speaker
as a believer being on one side and somehow like bringing a box of donuts to the other side and chatting with the people on the other side of it, just saying, Hey, tell me your story. Tell me where you're from. Uh, the question, you know, initially I want to go to Jenna. Now the question was, what is it like being a believer in a public school and tell me from your perspective what that's like.
00:20:37
Speaker
So when I came to my public school in high school, I was definitely not identifying as a believer. Nope, I was just, that was not in my deck of cards of who's Jenna Smith. I just wasn't really there.
00:20:52
Speaker
And up until the past year and a half now, I've flipped like totally upside down and I've totally come to Christ in an unbelievable way that like makes me emotional because it's just I've never knew that it could feel so real that it does. And so I would say from not being a believer to being a believer, it's been hard because people remember me how I used to be. So then they're like,
00:21:22
Speaker
think that there's just a big divide and they see the new me and the new things that I stand for and they're like well it's just a phase or they're like well you were once me too and I was once them too and that's honestly what I always put on my back because I try to show my best love to everyone at my school even the people that are Christians as well because
00:21:48
Speaker
I was them once too and not a lot of people were like not people not a lot of people my age came to faith this early if they weren't before and so I know that it's really important for me to proclaim my faith and so that's what I do like
00:22:06
Speaker
Everybody like if you hear Jenna Smith, it's out there like oh, that's the Jesus girl and some of them mean it in a mean way and some of them mean it and like Like that's really awesome that like her life has changed upside down even if they're not believers like I have a friend who's one of my best friends and she is a non-believer and she comes came to me the other day and she was like you have totally like your life right now and
00:22:31
Speaker
is so amazing and so joy filled. Even your bad days are good days. And she was like, I just want to walk with you. And she was like, I want to be with you as much as possible because I don't know how you flipped your life around. And in my eyes, I'm like, that wasn't me. I told her like, that's not me. That's all Jesus. And so my best, like, not my best, but my most high valued
00:22:57
Speaker
lesson that I learned from going from non-believer to a believer in a public school was like, don't be afraid of it. Make it your identity. My identity is my faith. My identity is Jesus Christ. And everybody knows that. And I love that, even the haters. I want people to know that, yeah, Jesus is right by my side. And I want everyone who meets me to know that.
00:23:21
Speaker
Let's be honest, nobody really is walking into a high school or a college or a job or a new group of friends and they're like, hey, what's up? My name is Jill and guess what? I am fired up for Jesus. So it would be silly to assume you're walking into a public school and you're like,
00:23:42
Speaker
I gotta tell you this, this is the first thing. I guess maybe I was kind of envisioning, you know, you meet these friends and gosh, I mean, I'm trying to think of how that even gets brought up. Is it a, oh, we're going out on Saturday night and you say, I'm gonna get home early and go into church tomorrow and then that's how the conversation goes. So,
00:24:06
Speaker
yeah how do you proclaim it i guess is a great question like how do you talk about that i would like to share a way not to proclaim okay how about that so high school ryan was very assertive aggressive annoying sometimes in his witness so my thought was
00:24:28
Speaker
let's put a Bible in an unbeliever's locker, just shove it in there, open a person's private compartment, put a Bible in there and leave it and just don't talk to them, don't tell them it was me. Now, everyone in my school, I should say this was in the football locker room, everyone on the team knew it was me and they kind of made fun of me for it later. And I'm like, oh, looking back on that,
00:24:53
Speaker
you know, that was an impersonal way of trying to witness to someone. I wish I had been more friendly to them. So my advice is don't passively shove a Bible in someone's locker. Maybe build a relationship with them. That's just, you know, my thought. You could be, you could have done it differently. I don't know. Maybe out there you're listening and that did work for you. Great. It did not work for me. So. Yeah. Like what do they mean when they say that's,
00:25:22
Speaker
Jesus, Jenna. Is that what you said or Jenna Jesus? That's the Jesus girl. That's the Jesus girl. What does that mean? Well, I have a lot of shirts and sweatshirts that have Bible verses on it or Jesus loves you on it. So sometimes they'll make comments about that. And then a lot of times, especially when I started to pull away from where I was before, there would be parties at night and I'd be like, well, I can't go. And they'd be like, why?
00:25:49
Speaker
either had church that night or I always had church in the morning. And then they'd be like, oh, so you're missing for church? And I'd be like, yeah. And then they'll be like, how my best friend was like, your life has slipped upside down because the amount of people that say that to me at my school, I'm like, thanks for reminding me how upside down I used to be. But like, whenever they do bring that up, I'm always like, it's not me, it's Jesus. And they're like, what do you mean? How is this person that you don't even see? How did they do it?
00:26:14
Speaker
So it's really just like if they seem like what I'm wearing or if it gets brought up in like, I have to cancel plans or if they mention how my life has changed. That's for me, that's the most I get it. What about you, Audrey? I don't really get it at all. Really, I found my Christian connections. We have like FCA, which is Fellowship of Christian Athletes. And it's a club that you go to on Thursday mornings once a month.
00:26:43
Speaker
So there's a lot of Christians that go to that. And really when you meet one Christian, they tend to have Christian friends and you just kind of find a web like that. Sometimes it does get brought up in conversation, but honestly, I think the main way people know I'm a Christian is because of my social media, because of the things they see me doing. And like in my bio, I have my life first. So that's the main way for me.
00:27:10
Speaker
It breaks my heart when anybody is excluded. And Ryan and I have had this conversation recently through staff and a question that we kind of go back to at a church conference we went to is, what breaks your heart? And loneliness is what breaks my heart. This idea of being shunned, but especially being shunned in,
00:27:40
Speaker
what I'm growing my faith and learning more about being shunned for doing something good for wanting to be a part of something good. I just I get the loneliness and I think as big as a public high school can be, there can be a lot of moments of loneliness, especially as a believer. I don't know.
00:28:02
Speaker
Do you have moments where you just feel like you're alone in your school? No one gets me, no one gets my faith and I'm just kind of on an island. Do you ever feel that way in your schools? Honestly, for my faith, I feel like I'm more alone with my Christian friends who go to Lutheran High and
Challenges and Isolation in Faith
00:28:28
Speaker
in my congregation because most of the people I know who have a really strong relationship with God have been through something that literally made them fall on their knees and say, I cannot live without Jesus. And that is what, because when you cannot live without Jesus, you need Jesus and that will stick with you hopefully the rest of your life. But I have been lucky enough to never experience something like that.
00:28:55
Speaker
And so all these people, all these leaders in the church, my friends, they all seem to have great relationships with God. And I just don't feel like I'm there. And I don't know if I'm over analyzing it or I don't know. That's part of why I'm in this phase of kind of questioning.
00:29:13
Speaker
So that is where I feel more isolated because I've never been shunned for my religion in public school. Honestly, most of the time people say I wish I believed in something that good or I wish I had anything to believe in because a lot of people just don't believe in anything. But I've never been shunned for, or even nobody has given me a bad comment about being a Christian. They just kind of accept it and move on or they ask me about it or we just kind of leave it there.
00:29:43
Speaker
normal Ryan, like in your role that what Audrey is experiencing with these formative years right here, is that what you see? Yeah. Well, it's interesting that you said, Audrey, that, you know, the people that you know that cling to Jesus had a moment that
00:30:07
Speaker
cause them to just fully lean in and rely on him. And you said that you were lucky that that hadn't happened to you. And my thought was, Oh man, I can't wait for that moment to happen to you. And I think we have a very safe safety oriented culture in America. And, and from the get-go safety was not something that Jesus promised.
00:30:32
Speaker
and safety and comfort, I think, can sometimes actually have the inverse effect on your faith. Because you're not challenged. You don't have the moment where you're relying on God. You don't have a moment where you realize, oh, I don't have the power to get through this on my own. We have a lot of stuff here.
00:30:54
Speaker
in America, in St. Charles County, we have a lot of stuff and that sometimes makes us think, okay, I can do this on my own, right? As long as I do things the right way and I go to college and I get a good job, right? There's no leaning on God in an environment like that. And so I think a challenge is maybe for parents to not hold on so tightly
00:31:19
Speaker
to your kid and being a helicopter parent to make sure they never have any struggles and any problems that they need to rely on anyone but you for, because are you then leading them to rely on God? Are you leading them to rely on you and their own strength? And so for you, Audrey, and for anyone out there that feels the same way, I'm like,
00:31:39
Speaker
that moment's probably going to come and it's not going to look the same. It's not going to come at a predictable time. Jill, you and I talked about this in the last episode, but I made a point that for your girls, they're going to watch you in your life, experience tough moments, experience struggles.
00:31:58
Speaker
And they're going to notice how you respond to that. Are you responding by saying as tough as things are, as rough as this week has been, as uncomfortable or as inconvenient as might be, I am still going to worship. I'm still going to pray. I'm still going to show up to community group. It's going to be something they remember. I bet when in the hard times you're leaning on God, but Jenna, you seem like you have a thought.
00:32:25
Speaker
I do. So I'm reading this book right now. It's called Atomic Habits. Definitely recommend it. It's on my bookshelf. It's bought and it's in line. Okay. There is this thing I read that like moved to me very strongly and it said like something how we don't allow ourselves and tell ourselves we will not be happy until we reach this goal. And then once we reach it, then we'll be happy. But until then we can't. But you have to fall in love with the process.
00:32:55
Speaker
If you're going through something like Audrey is where it's like, I mean, life's pretty good. I've never had to have that moment where I have to lean everything on God. Don't hold back and not allow yourself to feel your full relationship with God. And don't tell yourself that it's any stronger than anyone else's faith. Because if you do that, then one, it's gonna be a lot harder for you.
00:33:24
Speaker
And two, if you fall in love with the process of building your faith as it is, then the minute you do fall on your knees, you're going to know what to do. You're going to be proud of yourself, but you need to fall in love with the process.
Struggles with Faith and Crisis
00:33:40
Speaker
You need to fall in love with how you build your faith until you get to that point.
00:33:45
Speaker
I don't know, my only thing is like I was raised in the church and I know that God loves me and I know like I get goosebumps, I cry in church, I feel all the feels. I just, I hate that I feel like I need to have my life be bad in order for me to feel the full love of God.
00:34:07
Speaker
And I hate that I haven't met anybody who has such a strong relationship with God that hasn't gone through something. I know I'm gonna go through something at some point. And I am building my relationship with God. I am reading my Bible. I am, and not just reading it, I'm beginning to actually understand what it's saying. Because when you grow up in the church, you don't actually think about what it means. You just memorize the verses. So I've really been working on that. Jenna was the one that actually got me started on doing that.
00:34:37
Speaker
But I hate that I feel like I need to have a bad life in order to have a strong relationship with God. With that, you are your own Christian. Everyone prays differently. Everyone worships differently. Everyone reads their Bible differently. Everybody studies the Bible differently. You cannot compare your faith to anyone else's faith. The way I faith is not the way Ryan faiths. It's not the way you faith. It's not the way you faith.
00:35:06
Speaker
Everyone's faith is different. Jesus is always the same. Your walk with Jesus is not going to be like anyone else's. Your falls are not going to be like anyone else's. Your rises aren't going to be like anyone else's. Everyone is their own Christian and that is what I love about God because he made us so different and he allowed us to have all of these different thoughts in our minds and abilities that we can become our own Christians and we can create our own faith with him
00:35:35
Speaker
But something I was thinking of too though, when you said hitting rock bottom or whatever that bad thing is, that may not be the answer either. Because I have recently within like the last couple months have thought about some terrible things that I have gone through in the past and I was like,
00:35:57
Speaker
I played the what if game. Oh my gosh, what if I had my faith then? Or what if I was praying or what if I was turning to God and I wasn't at all? So let's not even think about the bad thing because that bad thing could not be the thing. This is interesting because these are the high schoolers in our community. These are the high schools in your community.
00:36:21
Speaker
And what I've heard is stories of falling away, coming back, doubting, questioning, believing, loving, being present in the lives of people that don't think the same way as you. This is the kind of stuff I expect from teenagers.
00:36:39
Speaker
I expect you to feel questioning of your faith and I expect you to feel moments Jenna like you were saying of walking away and coming back and these are the things that our teenagers are going through and maybe it's time for me to step back a bit now because what I want to hear from you two is what do you feel like you wish
00:37:02
Speaker
adults better understood about being a teenager. This doesn't have to be a Christian faith answer. This is just, what do you feel like adults understood better about being a teenager?
Teenage Perspectives on Adult Understanding
00:37:13
Speaker
Because believe it or not, every adult has been a teenager. According to my research, they were a teenager at one point, but at some point along the way, we forget that. We forget that life and maybe inform us again. Well, what do you wish adults understood better?
00:37:27
Speaker
I come from a family of three siblings and two older sisters, and my mom comes from her family with two sisters and a brother as well, just like me.
00:37:35
Speaker
There was one moment where I went to my mom, you've seen basically everything that's happened to me, happened to my sisters, but you still let me live life. Like why? Because a lot of parents, as they should, want their children to feel as happy at that age, as like valued, they want their children to be happy. And my mom goes, well, if you don't feel the hurt, how are you gonna feel the happy? And I was like,
00:38:04
Speaker
Mm, nope, I just wanna feel happy. And I wish that other parents were like my mom. And I know that a lot of kids don't say that about their parents, but I really, really wish that parents would let their kids live, feel the hurt. I know it breaks your heart. It breaks my heart to see my little brother go through hurt, because I know how that hurts. My mom knows how that hurts.
00:38:28
Speaker
But we also both know the outcome. We both know the lessons that are learned. We both know how we can look at ourselves and better ourselves for the next time it comes around. My biggest thing with parents is so many don't let their kids live and make choices for themselves because they do love them. But you have to love them enough to let them go.
00:38:50
Speaker
I wish parents realized that they were once teenagers too and they did mess up like we did and they did the stupid things and they still came out okay or at least I hope that they think they came out okay and I 100% agree with Jenna. I know that there are a lot of quote helicopter parents out there and I understand why they're out there
00:39:19
Speaker
But if you're not gonna let us live our lives now, by the time we get to college, it's just all gonna go downhill. And I'm so grateful that my parents let me have the freedom that I do. But I also know if I in any way betray that freedom, then it's gone forever. And I 100% agree with that. But I just wish that adults realize that teenagers
00:39:46
Speaker
We're in the spot that they once were in and we just need a second to figure it all out on our own. And we are under a lot of stress and pressure, which I know people know. I know that adults, no teenagers are under stress, but I don't think they realize.
00:40:01
Speaker
Why? And there's just a lot of expectations that are placed on us right now. We're supposed to have a job so we can earn our own money, because if we're living off our parents' money, then we're not hardworking. And we're supposed to be the best in sports, because if we're not the best, then why even play the sport?
00:40:18
Speaker
and we're supposed to do club teams in the off season so that we can be the best in sports and we're supposed to have friends because if you don't then you're not popular and you're supposed to have followers on social media because if you don't then you're not worth anything and you're supposed to look a certain way but you're also supposed to have self-care time and it's just exhausting it really is exhausting and lucky
00:40:41
Speaker
For me, I have always kind of just had an outside perspective. Like I don't, I try not to get sucked in to the kind of surface level things of high school, like popularity and stuff like that. I mean, yes, it's nice to be liked by people, but it shouldn't be the center of your whole world, but it is for a lot of kids and just having that certain status in society and on top of that, doing all these things just so you can get into college.
00:41:07
Speaker
Like that's the main reason we do all these crazy extracurricular activities and are so busy is just so we can get into a good college or whatever you want to do with your life. So many adults tell me that it really doesn't matter where you go to college or like what you get into because you're going to change your career so many times. You're going to change your major or whatever like that. And that just adds more stress because then why put in all the work if you're just going to change it anyway.
00:41:35
Speaker
So it's just a very stressful life and I wish adults would realize that and just give us the support that we need.
00:41:42
Speaker
we have unfortunately put a lot of pressure on teenagers to figure things out very quickly. And I don't think you shouldn't figure things out. I think, you know, at some point you should make a decision about your future, but sometimes we go so hard on that and we go so aggressive. Like you gotta figure this out now and you've gotta be involved in those hundreds of things you were talking about or else you're gonna miss out on your future.
00:42:12
Speaker
your future's gonna happen, you're not gonna miss out on it. I think your mom actually said that once, so kudos to her for the wise comment there, but I try to do this in my conversations with especially juniors and seniors, but it's so easy to just, your first question once someone hits their junior, senior year. So what are you thinking for college? What are you thinking next year? And I'll say this, as an adult, that's a filler question.
00:42:38
Speaker
I am genuinely interested, but sometimes it's just, I'm looking to chat with you. I want to ask you a question. And for a lot of adults, we ask questions like that just to engage in conversation. Well, we keep asking that over and over again, and we're starting to put that pressure on you again.
00:42:53
Speaker
And I think the tough thing about being an adult engaging with teenagers is teenagers are almost adults. And so you're almost there. And so there's a lot of things about you that's like very adult. You can drive, you can get jobs. You could do a lot of things that adults do, and yet you're not quite there yet. And so I think for adults and for parents, it's
00:43:16
Speaker
It's an awkward balance. I'm just going to say it's an awkward balance to figure out, hey, you are becoming your own person. I want to give you that space, but also you're not quite there yet. And I, I don't, I want to set you up for success and I want to guide you the right way. I want to teach you the right things. I want to show you who Jesus is before you're gone. And you know, so I want you to discover him for yourself. What else want to teach you who he is? And so I have to remind myself sometimes.
00:43:41
Speaker
that I'm not talking to full-fledged adults yet. I'm talking teenagers because it's just the moments will come to me where I'm like, oh, these are still teens. They're almost there. Well, yeah, because I am sitting here and talking to both of you and you're both so smart and so intelligent, but you're also teenagers.
00:44:02
Speaker
and that's hard and I can only imagine and I will say this and I know you've probably heard it from your parents before but having a five and a three-year-old the idea of them hurting heck they go and fall and they scrape up their knee it is the most painful thing like I'm surprised I'm not weeping in tears when I think about them hurting but I know that those are life lessons
00:44:28
Speaker
But that's what I would offer on my mom's side to you too, is that, and I know probably, and this was said to me forever too, once you have kids, you'll understand. And it really is true. There's a love unlike anything.
00:44:46
Speaker
when you have kids and you know you're responsible for them and you want them to be the best and you want them to do the best and you just want them to be safe. And it's hard to put them out in that world, especially a world where it's a little messed up right now, which is why we need more love. Which I also think is why we need more adults and parents to be so built in their faith because
00:45:14
Speaker
If they understand how Jesus loves, think about how you feel pain when your children choose pain. Think about your little girl being heartbroken. Think about how Jesus feels because it's so much bigger. And so I feel like with parents understanding Jesus' love and Jesus' pain, that'll be like, if Jesus let me go through this to get me here, I can let my child go through this to get to where they will be.
00:45:39
Speaker
Do you appreciate our advice? Yes. Well, that's the other thing is like, I want to hear, I want to speak, you know, and yeah, adults want to listen. They also want to speak. And so thank you for being patient when we speak.
00:45:54
Speaker
That's another big pet peeve of mine. When adults only speak, they like to do it a lot. Whenever we have a problem, they like to give us, and I'm not hating on you too, because you haven't been, but they like to use. They like to use their own personal experiences and throw them onto you and say that that will fix your problem or not even listen to your problem and just give you some sort of advice just so you stop talking.
00:46:22
Speaker
I think if adults just listened a lot more, they would understand us a lot better. That's all they have to do is just listen.
00:46:31
Speaker
listening, patience, modeling. You talked about modeling, adults modeling their faith to you. And I actually believe that's really important. Letting your kids experience struggles and not trying to just contain them in safety all the time. That's what I'm hearing from you too. So I'm going to accept that and dwell on it myself.
00:46:55
Speaker
Which brings me to my last question, which is, as a Christian leader in your life, as a believer, as an adult, what are you looking for from Christian leaders
Need for Relatable Leadership
00:47:07
Speaker
specifically? Not just parents, but from your churches, from your pastors, from me, from your small group leaders, what are you looking for?
00:47:17
Speaker
I'm looking for people that I can relate to because if I'm listening to a sermon or a message that has nothing I can connect to, then I'm just going to tune it out. And I know I can get a lot out of their teachings, and this is so selfish, but it has to have something to do with me. It has to connect with me somehow.
00:47:38
Speaker
And for youth pastors like Ryan or DCEs, just somebody personal, like somebody who understands that I'm a teenager and shares his teenage experiences that went wrong, like putting the Bible in the locker and how that didn't work. And somebody who can just laugh off things, but also take things seriously at the same time. And that is a really important skill to have and a really hard skill to have.
00:48:07
Speaker
But somebody I can relate to and somebody, again, who will listen to my struggles and then help me with them. Like Ryan does a really good job of asking us what we want to learn about at Messiah PM. And he always gives a message at Messiah PM. So he'll ask us, what are you struggling with right now? Or what do you just want to learn more about to help you grow your faith? And we tell him and he actually creates messages based on those things. He doesn't just do it kind of as a kind thing.
00:48:36
Speaker
So that's really important. I would say passion. I go to Matthias Lott Church on Wednesdays, which is an extraordinary church. They're moving God greatly just like Messiah. And there's a pastor there and his name is Mark. And I remember the first time I went there, I was like, holy crap, that guy's on...
00:48:55
Speaker
fire for Jesus. I was like, I've never seen a more hyped up man talking about Jesus dying before ever. I was like, what is going on? And seeing that passion, I was like, I'm gonna feel that. What made him feel this strong passion? It's like, when I am so passionate about Jesus, I can see it on people's faces. They're just like,
00:49:17
Speaker
Why are you so fired up about this thing? What brings me to listen and to engage in the sermon and in the worship is the passion that everyone has for Jesus around me and the passion that the pastor has to spread God's love and get the point across that no, Jesus is there for you.
00:49:39
Speaker
It's definitely the passion. When you have passion upstage, when we had a series way, way back about the one, and you had this huge passion about like, you gotta like just, like singleness is good. And you were like passionate about how Jesus is there for you and like your loneliness. And I was like, I guess I should like rejoice in my loneliness too. And like I did. So it's like seeing someone standing in front of me talking about Jesus so,
00:50:08
Speaker
Passionate so like energetic and so like like just Makes me want to go read my Bible at home makes me want to like be just just like that pastor want to spread Jesus Just like he does so I would say passion so adults we should listen We should be patient
00:50:26
Speaker
When you say relate though, do I have to know all the trends that are going on? The trends are the least important thing. Okay, okay. The least important thing. If anything, I just want you to have empathy. That was the word I was going to say, empathy. It's the least important thing, but it's the only thing they care about.
00:50:45
Speaker
No, empathy is the most important thing. Trends are the least important thing. Yes, trends are the least important thing. Empathy important, trends not so important. Exactly. Take note. But you guys have it flipped, so just flip it all around. That's another pet peeve with adults. It's all the trends. They're like, I swear I'm not hating on you, Jill. I swear I'm not hating on you. But they'll be like, oh my gosh, I learned about this new thing. Is this cool? I've done that to you. Am I? Maybe like five minutes ago. Maybe ASMR. ASMR.
00:51:16
Speaker
Side note, we won't even get into that. Oh my gosh, I did, didn't I? It's just that... Trends are not a way to connect with us. There are things that we know about, but they're not things we want to talk about. They're just things that...
00:51:33
Speaker
are a part of our life. We want to talk about our actual problems and our actual feelings, and we want actual advice when we're done talking. Some of that isn't about you. It's about the adult wanting to feel young again. No, I just want to know. And it's genuine curiosity too. Sometimes I text you guys like, what does the
00:51:54
Speaker
What does this mean? Or what is this phrase? Like explain cap to me. I think I said that to y'all a while ago. And I just want to know. I know what that means too. You're lying. What's it mean? You're lying. Well, she does know. I know, but I had to ask my 18-year-old nephew. But okay, wait. Going back to the ASMR. Is that right? Yes. See, look how happy she is. There we go. Because now I know. Like, wouldn't you rather me ask than be like, oh yeah.
00:52:23
Speaker
Do you know what I'm saying? I appreciate when adults make an effort. I mean, I don't care if you know about ASMR. It's just that is not the best way you can connect with me. Got it. And I will put what ASMR is in the show notes. That normally goes a long way dot com. Yeah, I know what it is. I don't know what the letters stand for. So please clarify that for me.
00:52:49
Speaker
And I love that you called me out. Yeah. Audrey, thanks for that. And Jenna, I heard a phrase. You're talking about the passion. And in my mind, I just thought, for adults, you've got to make it personal. If I could give us a phrase, it's make it personal. Make your faith.
00:53:06
Speaker
personal that it's easier said than done. And what does that phrase even mean? Make it personal. But when I teach, I want to teach from a place of experience. And that experience is I've gone through this and it's not always positive experience. It's sometimes like, man, I'm telling you to live this way. And I've struggled with it, but the moments I've done it, you know, here's what it's like. I don't know. Making your faith personal.
00:53:34
Speaker
Because faith is personal, but being outward about it, it's personal. It's very hard to open up about personal things. But since your faith should be and already is personal, you've got to show other people that your faith is personal, too. This is my personal experience. I am super impressed with the both of you. And on behalf of Ryan and myself, thank you for coming on this podcast and sharing your story because it's going to help.
00:54:02
Speaker
not only help adults, but help other teenagers. And I look at you too, and I have a feeling that when I look at my girls tonight, I'm gonna see you too. And I'm gonna hope they walk that same path.
00:54:18
Speaker
So thank you. And what's really cool is that everybody has a different story. And so in our next episode that will be taking place, we're going to have two more high school ladies and we're going to get their thoughts and we're going to get their opinions and find out what they're thinking and how they can help with the faith of the next generation.