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There's a lot of myths and misinformation around the end of time. It tends to make imaginations run wild (as a quick Google search will show). In this week’s episode, Pastor Jim Mueller separates fact from fiction. We're going right to the source—the Book of Revelation—to find out what the Bible really has to say on the subject. What we find is both fantastical and fascinating. Revelation is a book like no other, and I am excited to teach on a topic that inspires so much good (and really, really bad) discussion.  Let's get to the real story and discover what apocalyptic writing from 2000 years ago can tell us about our world today...and in the future.

If you’d like to dig deeper, check out these discussion questions. You can complete them on your own, with your Community Group, or with family and friends.

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Transcript

Introduction by Jill Devine

00:00:00
Speaker
the following podcast is a Jill dev Divine Media production.
00:00:20
Speaker
Thank you for hitting play on this week's episode of Normal Goes a Long Way. I'm your host, Still Divine, and today's episode and Thursday's episode will mark the last two episodes of season seven.

The Significance of Revelation

00:00:32
Speaker
We are wrapping up the sermon series based on the story and chapter 31, the last chapter in the book, The End of Time. So we started back in January, right at the beginning of the new year, actually not the first Sunday in January. yeah i remember we had Snowmageddon come through and like I couldn't even get up here to like record a message, let alone like host church that day.
00:00:56
Speaker
Well, that week was only gonna be an intro into the Bible, and so we didn't really miss a beat because we did chapter one ah that next Sunday in January, and then took it all the way through the month of June and finished the Old Testament.
00:01:08
Speaker
and And then we we worked on the New Testament this fall beginning at the beginning of August. And we have now landed on the last book of the Bible, which for a lot of people tends to be the most intimidating book of the Bible, the book of Revelation.
00:01:24
Speaker
And when I say the book of Revelation, I'm not adding an S on the end. There's no revelations. This is God's one revelation to the apostle John, the last disciple of Jesus. It's about 95 AD. The other disciples are all gone.
00:01:40
Speaker
And now John, the youngest disciple of Jesus, is old. And he's been exiled on the island of Patmos ah by the emperor Domitian. In fact, this is a picture of Patmos taken by my friend Amy when she was just there. So she was in on this Greek island. She got to see ah some of the major tributes to the apostle John, including a cave where he was. Well, it's here in exile.
00:02:08
Speaker
that John receives his revelation from Jesus. He had already written a gospel, he had written three epistle letters, but now this is the final revelation. and And what we say is the New Testament canon ends when the last disciple of Jesus dies.
00:02:24
Speaker
And of course, there's many other followers of Jesus, but but these were the original, the original 12 that walked with him from day one. And what God wants when he gives this revelation to John is he wants John to take a look at the end times, actually to even take a peek into heaven.
00:02:43
Speaker
He wants John to be able to see what it's like, what it's going to be like. ah He wants John, I like to say it this way, he wants him to read the ending before he's even finished the book, which is a great way to spoil an ending, but that's exactly what Revelation is.
00:03:00
Speaker
You and i are in the middle of this life and we're going through life and we know the history that's been before us, we're going through it, and yet God has already revealed the ending. He's given us the last chapter.
00:03:12
Speaker
He wants you to know how all this is going to end.

Messages to the Seven Churches

00:03:15
Speaker
um i think I think for John and I think for us, the reason this is so critical is it gives us permission to have perseverance when we're going through this rat race life that we go through. Like perseverance that if we're faithful, God's going to remain faithful to us.
00:03:35
Speaker
Because this is not just for John's benefit. It's definitely for our benefit too. ah Jesus has invited you to follow him, to love your neighbor. He's asked you to forgive your enemies. He's told you to be generous with your possessions. He's told you to be a servant to all.
00:03:52
Speaker
See, being a Christian is no easy gig. God asks a lot of you, a lot of you, And so Revelation is for you too when you're trying to do this persevering thing.
00:04:07
Speaker
God wants you to know what will happen. God wants you to know it'll be worth it. ah Everything you go through, everything you sacrifice, when you read Revelation, you nod your head once again and say, amen, God, I'm in too.
00:04:22
Speaker
I know why you're asking me of the you're asking this of me, and I know what kind of difference it can make, and I believe you and I trust you for the end. And so God starts by telling John to write ah this revelation to the seven churches of Asia, the seven churches of Asia. Well, why these churches and not ah any of the other churches?
00:04:42
Speaker
Well, these seven cities... who are situated on a Roman mail route, making them a logical point to distribute the message. So to say it one way, if you can get it to these cities among this Roman mail route, you can get them to all the cities of the world.
00:04:58
Speaker
If you get them there, you can get them everywhere. ah The churches also represent ah various conditions and various struggles that churches go through.
00:05:11
Speaker
the The real struggles that come to a church that... um So the broader Christian church experiences the very same things that the seven churches of Asia do. For example, Smyrna. Smyrna is a church suffering persecution.
00:05:27
Speaker
ah Pergamum needs to repent. Thyatira has false prophets. Sardis has fallen asleep at the wheel. Philadelphia is enduring hardship. And Laodicea is greedy...
00:05:40
Speaker
And their faith is lukewarm. These are the challenges that churches faced then, but they're the same challenges that churches face now.
00:05:53
Speaker
The church I want to focus on, though, is the first one that John mentions in Revelation. It's the church of Ephesus. And part of the reason I want to talk about it is we know a lot about them.
00:06:04
Speaker
Because Paul ah wrote and ah an epistle to the Ephesian Christians. And also in the book of Acts, there's but there's there's a lot of the mission work that happens ah in and around Ephesus.
00:06:18
Speaker
um So this is what God says to them through the apostle John. I want to begin at chapter two, verse one. He says, to the angel of the church in Ephesus write, these are the words of him who holds the seven stars in his right hand and walks among the seven golden lampstands. I know your deeds.
00:06:37
Speaker
your hard work, your perseverance. I know that you cannot tolerate wicked people, that you have tested those who claim to be apostles but are not and have found them false.
00:06:49
Speaker
You have persevered and have endured hardships for my name and have not grown weary. And then verse four, and this is the real kicker. He says, yet I hold this against you.
00:07:04
Speaker
You have forsaken Your first love. And the question, of course, is what is he talking about? Is there history behind Jesus's affirming words and then and then these harsh words that Jesus is telling John to give?
00:07:22
Speaker
ah Well, Ephesus was known as a doctrinally sound church. They had good doctrine. They were concerned with saying, And believing the right things, the true things, kind of reminds me of the Lutheran church.
00:07:37
Speaker
Our history has some similarity. We really strive to get our doctrine right. Well, let's look at how this church got started in Ephesus. This is Acts chapter 19. Tells us about the beginning of this church.
00:07:50
Speaker
It says that God, the extraordinary miracles through Paul, that so that even the handkerchiefs and the aprons that had touched him were taken to the sick. And their illnesses were cured and the evil spirits left them.
00:08:04
Speaker
Some Jews went around driving out evil spirits, tried to invoke the name of the Lord Jesus over those who were demon-possessed. They would say in the name of Jesus whom Paul preaches, I command you to come out.
00:08:19
Speaker
What they're experiencing is there's power in God's name. One thing the early church really believed is that The supernatural power of God is real.
00:08:32
Speaker
Even the handkerchiefs that touched Paul could cure illnesses. Think about that. Your spouse goes to wash your clothes and you're like, not the hanky, not the hanky. Don't wash the hanky, I need it.
00:08:44
Speaker
It's got good juju on it. Touch Paul. See, the power of God was on display that even Jewish nonbelievers were trying to get in on the action.
00:08:57
Speaker
It continues in verse 14. It says, the seven sons of Sceva. I just love to say that out loud. Seven sons of Sceva. A Jewish chief priest, they were doing this.
00:09:09
Speaker
And one day the evil spirits answered them and said, Jesus, I know. Paul I know about. But who are you? i love that. Then the man who had the evil spirit jumped on them.
00:09:23
Speaker
overpowered them all. He gave them such a beating that they ran out of the house naked and bleeding. Those who try to drive out demons at night, on the weekend, in your spare time, beware.
00:09:34
Speaker
is serious business. These are spiritual powers we're talking. it's It's not to be taken lightly. These are not prayers you take lightly. These this take real faith.
00:09:46
Speaker
Verse 17, when this became known to the Jews and the Greeks, Living in Ephesus, they were all seized with fear, and the name of the Lord Jesus was held in high honor. Many of those who believe now came and openly confessed what they had done.
00:10:01
Speaker
See, God, I believe, is still doing miracles today. and churches that know this and believe this understand where that true power comes from. See, these people were seized with fear.
00:10:15
Speaker
They were in such that of the power of God, the power of Jesus' name, that they knew they had to be a little afraid. We're not playing around anymore.
00:10:28
Speaker
This is not all religions are basically the same. No, they're not. No, they're not. Yes, some of them might have some of the same laws and prohibitions. You can see some similarity in that.
00:10:42
Speaker
But where does the real power come from? There's no power in the rules. The laws don't save anybody. The prohibitions don't save anybody. It is the name of Jesus. It's the gospel. It's the good news. It's the grace of God.
00:10:58
Speaker
That's where the power is. The laws don't heal diseases. Only the grace of God does that. And that grace comes from the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. That's why his name is the key.
00:11:14
Speaker
Verse 19. A number who had practiced sorcery brought their scrolls together, and they burned them publicly. How many of you have ever been to a scroll-burning party?
00:11:25
Speaker
They are so much fun. When they calculated the value of the scrolls, the total came to 50,000 drachmas. In this way, the word of the Lord spread widely and grew in power.
00:11:39
Speaker
So the church starts in Ephesus with a very calculated plan, right? they called the district office. They set up a core group meeting, did a telephone campaign, bought eight acres near the highway, worked on a logo and passed out pamphlets.
00:11:57
Speaker
Nope. That's how we start churches today a lot of times, for better for worse. um What is this story like? Chaos. Scroll burning party.
00:12:10
Speaker
Be like driving down I-70, driving, And there's a bunch of Ouija boards on fire. And people are dancing around. And you stop and you ask, what's going on? We just started a church.
00:12:21
Speaker
Okay, good for you guys. um Our text in Revelation says that they've lost their first love now. They've lost their first love.

Organizational Focus vs. Mission

00:12:32
Speaker
See, Acts was written in the 50s. And John received his revelation around 95 So happened? They got organized. They got organized.
00:12:44
Speaker
got organized. It started as ouija you know Ouija board burning parties and people getting saved, and I can't explain it, this is so amazing, but over time, they needed organization.
00:12:57
Speaker
um who's going to lead this? What exactly do we believe? And um let let's make a hymnal review committee or let's argue in a council meeting about what color the carpets are going to be.
00:13:10
Speaker
um Now, let me say this. The organization of the church over that 40 years was probably necessary. was important. It was important. Over time, as more and more people come in, you have to figure out how are you gonna care for them? How are you gonna educate them? What do you do with the young? I mean, there's a lot to figure out.
00:13:27
Speaker
so organization itself isn't the problem. um It's important to set up councils and to have meetings and to talk through things and to work on hard doctrine. But what did they forget?
00:13:37
Speaker
They forgot their first love. It's the business that starts in a dorm room. We all worked out of the same office, two phones. It was cramped, but it was growing.
00:13:50
Speaker
And then one day it takes off, and now we have to decide who's really in charge and who gets the corner office, right? Do you know why they say the first album is always the best?
00:14:02
Speaker
Because they had a lifetime to write those songs. i mean, those songs had been on their hearts when they were children. They had lifetime to write them. But during the second album, they're picking out carpets, aren't they?
00:14:17
Speaker
Sometimes. They got successful. They got distracted. And now a record company is dictating what kind of songs you're allowed to write. It doesn't come from here anymore.
00:14:29
Speaker
You lost your first love. So what does Jesus say to them? This is Revelation chapter two. He says, consider how far you've fallen.
00:14:42
Speaker
Repent and do the things you did at first. If you don't repent, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place.
00:14:55
Speaker
So what's happened? They became self-focused. They lost their first love. And now they're at risk of losing a lampstand, which is to say they've lost the mission.
00:15:09
Speaker
The church started because the world needed to hear good news and you were bold and you were fresh and you were creative in taking it to them. courage. You've been working hard, but somehow in getting it internally organized, you lost your first love.
00:15:28
Speaker
Is this why the passage starts with Jesus moving in and among the lampstands? What are lampstands a reminder of? What is light a reminder of? It's a reminder that the Jewish people were to always be a light to the Gentiles, a light to the world.
00:15:45
Speaker
a beacon of hope where there wasn't any hope. You're not just here for yourselves. This is not just a spiritual club. This is not a ah doctrine center. You are here so Jesus' is light and his love can light up the world.
00:16:04
Speaker
And so what happens if Jesus removes a lampstand from a church? I see it all the time. Churches lose their mission, And they become effectively spiritual nursing homes where the faithful are just waiting to die and go to heaven.
00:16:24
Speaker
And it's sad. It's sad. And here's the temptation. and i this is true in the Lutheran church, let me tell you, in the LCMS.
00:16:36
Speaker
Because we love doctrine. And doctrine's great, and we have to have it. And if you're gonna teach it, by all means, teach it right. God's word.
00:16:47
Speaker
It's not man's word. But Ephesus had doctrine and they still let ministry become all about in-reach, taking care of ourselves.
00:16:58
Speaker
If a church has pure doctrine and but doesn't practice the mission of the church, I sometimes wonder maybe their doctrine wasn't that good from the beginning. Good doctrine should be good mission.
00:17:12
Speaker
Bad mission might be something wrong with the doctrine. And again, that that's the temptation in established churches like the Lutheran Church. Evangelism is not optional.
00:17:22
Speaker
Loving our neighbor is not optional. We must be true to our first love, which is we're here to show the world God's love.

Heavenly Worship and Earthly Values

00:17:33
Speaker
And if we become sidetracked or if we be become too concerned with ah our own self-preservation, if we circle the wagons too much to protect ourselves,
00:17:47
Speaker
then he's gonna come and he's gonna remove the lampstand. It's his warning to Ephesus, but it's his warning to churches today too. This is a problem in 95 AD, but it's a problem today too.
00:18:01
Speaker
and I'm sure you've seen a church whose light has burned out. I have. Have you ever felt sometimes like maybe a light's burned out in you a little bit? It's a hard place to be.
00:18:15
Speaker
See, that's why it's so important That we repent of selfishness, Jesus says here. That we repent of it, God bless you. And that we turn back to our first love.
00:18:27
Speaker
And what is the first love of the Lutheran church? If you know anything about the Reformation. Luther reformed because he knew the church forgot that salvation is a gift of God's grace for all people.
00:18:42
Speaker
He said the church forgot it. They put it on the back burner. They stopped believing it, they stopped teaching it, whatever. That's why it needed to be reformed. That was our first love.
00:18:53
Speaker
It was a free gift. And suddenly, nuns and priests are getting married. People start writing beautiful, creative hymns.
00:19:03
Speaker
Their first love was finding the gospel of Jesus Christ and sharing it with the world. That's an important lampstand. That's something Jesus loves. That's something Jesus wants to make sure never gets removed.
00:19:18
Speaker
So John starts by warning different kinds of churches the types of challenges that we're going to face. Then John sees a throne in heaven. And it says that all of heaven is worshiping the lamb. And so John wants to lay eyes on this lamb.
00:19:36
Speaker
Oh, it's Jesus. He sees a multinational multitude in heaven. worship worshiping the lamb day and night.
00:19:47
Speaker
It offers the church a counter-imagination. All of the earth's people and all of their ethnic and linguistic ah variety will be reconciled to one another and to God.
00:19:59
Speaker
In effect, John is asking his audience, which version of reality do you want to be a part of? The vision of God's new creation or the values of the earthly empires you've known?
00:20:14
Speaker
It's as if he's he's declaring to us, is the way things are really the way things need to be?
00:20:22
Speaker
So Jesus shows John a picture of heaven so that he can see life from a different perspective, a heavenly perspective. See, this revelation won't allow us to reduce the gospel to a mere ticket to heaven.
00:20:38
Speaker
It calls on God's people to be an instrument of healing for the world. It also shows us that when we face certain things in life, there is gonna there's more going on below the surface when you face something.
00:20:52
Speaker
When we see poverty or violence or war or families going through a divorce, we assume we're looking at human problems.
00:21:06
Speaker
But according to Revelation, it shows us that there's more going on below the surface. There are spiritual forces that are fighting it out for control of humanity.
00:21:20
Speaker
See, Revelation knows that our true battle is not against flesh and blood, but rather against spiritual dark forces. And every time there's evil being done, there's a demon giving someone a nudge.
00:21:35
Speaker
And Revelation knows this. So then John shows us a little bit more behind the scenes. This is Revelation 12. He says, a war broke out in heaven.
00:21:48
Speaker
And Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. But he was not strong enough. And they lost their place in heaven.
00:22:00
Speaker
The great dragon was hurled down, that ancient serpent called the devil or Satan who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth and his angels with him.
00:22:11
Speaker
See, the archangel Michael goes up against this dragon. He busts up the dragon and he kicks him out. When we get down, we want to give up. When life is hard, sometimes it's easy to think that evil is too strong and evil sure seems strong.
00:22:27
Speaker
So God tells us this, I think, because he wants us to know the dragon's coming down.
00:22:35
Speaker
And I'm coming for you guys. I'm coming for you. The author of the Message Bible, Eugene Peterson, i had the chance to to meet him at a conference once, sit with him for like an hour. was amazing.
00:22:47
Speaker
He once remarked that the gospel is more political than anyone imagines, but in ways that no one guesses. And here, Peterson is actually absolutely correct.
00:23:01
Speaker
John's vision in chapter 12, this picture, directly challenges a Roman imperial cult, and by extension, really the Roman government themselves, or even their right to rule.
00:23:17
Speaker
how? Well, if you're history geek, you might recall that Apollo, who was the god of reason and light, was the quote-unquote father, supposedly, of Caesar Augustus.
00:23:29
Speaker
Caesar was the son of God by Apollo, just as Apollo was the son of God by Zeus, the chief of the Roman pantheon. And Apollo was conceived by Zeus with his human mother,
00:23:44
Speaker
lito And as Leto was about to give birth, a serpent monster named Python came and waited for the boy to be born, and he wanted to swallow him up. And Python was this sinister serpent of the deep, the source of chaos and evil. But Zeus came to the rescue of Leto and Apollo, snatching them up, and he carried them to safety. And when Apollo reached adulthood, he pursued Python, and he killed him, bringing light and
00:24:16
Speaker
and order and reason to the world. So Roman mythology would want you to believe. Well, John retells the story in Revelation 12. However, in John's version, the characters' roles are reversed.
00:24:31
Speaker
Caesar and Rome are no longer represented but by Apollo. They're represented by Python. and Jesus is the true light of the world, and all those who seek to squelch the light of the Son of God are enemies of the world and are servants of evil.
00:24:48
Speaker
This is seditious language. It's quite common in the early church. They observed that the world around them was always making claims about them their greatness, or they felt ah compelled to identify themselves with their allegiances.
00:25:05
Speaker
But these early Christians said, no, our only allegiance is to Christ and none other. We can be good citizens, but our allegiance is to Christ.
00:25:17
Speaker
There's no room for compromise. You're either on the side of Jesus or you're being controlled by a ah serpent-sponsored agent of chaos and evil.

Understanding God's Judgment

00:25:28
Speaker
Then verse 10 in Revelation 12 says, John heard a loud voice in heaven say, now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Messiah for the accuser of our brothers and sisters who accuses them before our God day and night has been hurled down.
00:25:49
Speaker
God will win ah great battle. Perhaps the cross of Jesus did way more than forgiving some sins. Perhaps Jesus' blood is really really destroying all evil forever.
00:26:06
Speaker
Forever. Now, when some people think of end times, they have a warped view of God's judgment. They think like ever since the flood, ah God's looking for something to do. Like like he's like Santa and he's got a list and he's checking it twice. And I saw you at that party, dude. You had a little too much.
00:26:27
Speaker
It was a very Christian of you. People picture God in a bad mood with a heavenly hangover and he's coming after you.
00:26:37
Speaker
If you ask most people their image of God, that image is there. It's there. God's after me. In Scripture, God's judgment is simply showing up.
00:26:50
Speaker
If God's just present, you feel the judgment. It's pressed on you just by his presence. His greatness, his purity lets you know your place.
00:27:04
Speaker
Perfection reveals frailty. God just shows up and the judgment's obvious. Interestingly enough, Most of the time, Jesus talks about the end times or heaven.
00:27:17
Speaker
it It seems like it involves large parties with adult beverages, but that's another sermon.
00:27:25
Speaker
Now want to move to the end of the book. Now, I didn't talk about the seal. or the force horsemen of the apocalypse, or the beast and the woman. ah To do that, we would need to be here for hours. So perhaps down the road, pastor, we need to do a series on Revelation so we can really do like all of that justice, so we can get into the details.
00:27:45
Speaker
But here's the thing. You don't need all that to understand Revelation. And you don't need all that to understand the Bible. I like to say, to understand the Bible,
00:27:57
Speaker
You only really need to read the first couple pages. And then you only really need to read the last couple pages. God created the world. It was good.
00:28:10
Speaker
Then sin caused humanity to break, to break their covenant with God. And now humanity and the creation is broken. That's all in the first couple pages.
00:28:22
Speaker
That's the first couple pages. Then you turn to the back of the Bible And you read the last couple pages, Revelation 21. John saw a new heaven and a new earth.
00:28:36
Speaker
For the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. I saw the holy city, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride, beautifully dressed for her husband.
00:28:50
Speaker
And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, look, God's dwelling place is now among the people. and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. You know, people say that Revelation or the Bible, ah they're confusing.
00:29:11
Speaker
Well, not this part. All that is broken will pass away, and what will be reborn is beautiful, and the people of God will be beautiful.

Promise of a New Creation

00:29:24
Speaker
And now God dwells with his people, lives among his people. No more talk of a bearded man in the sky. Now we see the heavenly father loving and dwelling with us.
00:29:37
Speaker
And then verses four and five, and these are really consequential for what you believe about God. or what you believe about the Bible. It says that God will wipe every tear from their eyes.
00:29:47
Speaker
There'll be no more death or mourning or crying or pain for the old order of things has passed away. He was seated on the throne said, i am making everything new. And then he said, John, wright these write this down for these words are trustworthy and true.
00:30:05
Speaker
What's the ending? It's good news. It's the gospel. It was created good, then it was corrupted. Then for hundreds and hundreds of pages, we go through the Bible and we we look at God trying to put it together again, promising that he's gonna put it all back together again.
00:30:24
Speaker
And we watch humanity struggle in the same ways that we struggle, with temptation, with false prophets. with false promises, but God is ever true in these hundreds and hundreds of pages in the middle where God's putting stuff together again.
00:30:41
Speaker
First, he calls out a special people to be his light to the nations. Then a child is born to one of them, a virgin. And this child grew up and he taught and he healed and he sacrificed himself literally on a cross for us.
00:30:59
Speaker
Why did he do it? Why does that matter? This is why. Because God's promise is a world with no more tears and no more death and no more crying or cra or or mourning or pain. God has had enough.
00:31:18
Speaker
He's making everything new.

Podcast Conclusion and Resources

00:31:20
Speaker
And that's why I'm a Christian. And I suspect that's why you are too. And that's the story of the Bible. Thank you for hanging in there with us all year. It's been very, very impressive. Let me invite you to stand. We're gonna sing a new song.
00:31:38
Speaker
Very appropriate one called Hymn of Heaven.
00:31:43
Speaker
And the end of Revelation finishes with these words, with these words. Says, these words are trustworthy and true. The Lord, the God who inspires the prophets, sent his angel to show his servants the things that must soon take place.
00:32:00
Speaker
Blessed is the one who keeps the words of this prophecy written in the scroll. And then he says, and I am coming soon. Amen.
00:32:12
Speaker
I hope you have enjoyed this sermon series. turned into podcasts, episodes, uh, based on the story. And maybe there were a couple of chapters that you struggled with, or you need a refresher. I encourage you to head to normal goes a long way.com and check out all the resources that we have for you.
00:32:33
Speaker
And we also have discussion questions for each chapter. So maybe one of those chapters that you struggled with, the questions can help you dig a little bit deeper get get some ah better understanding of ah a question that you may have had about the chapter. So again, all of that is at normalgoesalongway.com.
00:32:53
Speaker
And I invite you back for our last episode of season seven with Normal Goes a Long Way for Kids. Ms. Hannah, Ms. April will Talk about chapter 31, the end of time, in a way that will really hit home with the kids. It'll make sense and it'll be good ah family discussion for all of you. So come back on Thursday for Normal Goes a Long Way for Kids.