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Imposter Syndrome w/ Leisa Greene
25 Plays2 years ago
Leisa Greene, the founder of Indie It Press, spent the first forty-one years of her life completely unaware that she had anything creative to offer the world. Coming into her creativity later in life, Leisa immediately felt the imposter syndrome. “Who do I think I am?” “I haven’t been dreaming of this since I was a kid, so I must not be a real writer.” In learning to navigate the creative process, she began learning more about imposter syndrome and how all artists of every medium and every level experience imposter syndrome. And in fact, the antidote–if there is any–is to simply realize that we’re not alone. We talk about the origins of Indie It Press, a platform for indie artists who struggle with imposter syndrome, which aims to rip down the gates that prevent so many new writers from pursuing their dreams by giving them a place to share their work, get published, and improve their craft.
When Leisa joined me for this episode, I thought we’d be talking about the imposter experience–and we did, don’t get me wrong–but what we ended up connecting over the most was our deep gratitude for this creative life we get to explore. Our conversation turned into a joyful celebration of why we keep going even though we feel like we’re frauds. And that’s what you deserve too! Because even though we might always feel like imposters, expressing our creativity is also where we find the most belonging.
You can connect with Leisa on Instagram @indieitpress or indieitpress.com or follow her personal Instagram page @leisa_greene. This year with Indie It Press is the Year of Creativity, and they’re offering new membership packages and courses for writers to advance their skills and join a community of creatives. Head to their website to learn more!
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Transcript
Introduction to The Ugly Podcast
00:00:03
Speaker
Welcome to the Ugly Podcast. I'm your host, Lauren Alexander, she, they, and this is the place where creatives are encouraged to make messy, ugly art and let go of perfectionism.
00:00:14
Speaker
I started this podcast with my creative partner, Emerson, and we've since grown into our businesses. And this podcast is now evolving into a space where I interview other creatives to discuss our creative processes and how we navigate the mental mind field of creativity. This podcast serves as a reminder that you and your art get to be whatever the hell you want to be, ugly and all.
00:00:42
Speaker
Welcome back to the Ugly Podcast. Thank you to my listeners who keep coming back. I really appreciate you to just be here to talk about all the messy things that come along with creativity.
Lisa Green's Creative Journey
00:00:55
Speaker
Today, we're going to kind of focus on imposter syndrome. And I have an amazing guest here for you. She is the founder and editor-in-chief of Indie It Press.
00:01:06
Speaker
a platform for indie artists who struggle with imposter syndrome. They offer support to help artists of all mediums to set aside that nagging inner monologue in order to succeed and continue to flourish in their artistic endeavors. She has written a memoir and is currently working on an epic historical fiction work. Welcome, Lisa Green. Can you please share your pronouns with us? Yes, my pronouns are she, her. Thank you so much.
00:01:34
Speaker
So welcome. Thank you for having me. I'm glad to finally have you on. Yeah, as soon as I saw, I read everything that you've been doing with imposter syndrome. I'd been wanting to talk about imposter syndrome for a while, and I was like, I have to get Lisa on here. So thank you. The biggest imposter ever. Here I am.
00:02:00
Speaker
Great way to start. You're welcome. If I can do it, you can do it too. I love it. So tell me about your creative life before you started in DIT Press. How had your relationship to creativity evolved through the years? Well, I was never told I was a creative person. I was never told I was a smart person.
00:02:28
Speaker
I came from a generation where women were just starting to go out into the workforce and the kids were latchkey kids. Yeah, there you go. And it wasn't like anything that was encouraged in my family. However, I found theater.
00:02:56
Speaker
when I was a sophomore in high school. And I loved it. And I loved taking special interest literature classes in high school. And I don't know. I think probably theater is where it began for me for sure. And it's not that I do theater now. As an adult, I have.
00:03:18
Speaker
But just being involved in something so collaborative and creative, and you get to be somebody you're not. And that's where it began for me, I think. As far as writing, I'm an imposter because I
00:03:41
Speaker
Kept when I was like 10 the journal of all the people I liked, you know in the journal my little secrets with a little lock But that was pretty much it. Mm-hmm, and I didn't write a lot. I enjoyed my lit classes. I I didn't even think about being a writer never even crossed my mind and Didn't think I was qualified to write didn't think I
00:04:13
Speaker
It just, it never occurred to me. It never occurred to me that was something that I could do. And it wasn't until I changed my life drastically as an adult and there were, there's a lot of things with that and that's a whole other story. And that's what's part of my memoir is. But until I completely like flipped my world upside down
00:04:41
Speaker
and went back to university that I was told I had an ability to write specifically about my ex-husband in a way that was a wider lens than most people do and that I had a talent. And at that time, I was 41 years old. And I remember,
00:05:10
Speaker
I had just turned in an essay piece. It was in the summer. I was taking summer school because I wanted to get done in a specific time with university. I was a literature major. It was not a creative writing major until after this point. And I had met with the instructor. And when he told me these things, he's like, Lizzie, you are a writer. He said, this is really good. And remember, going with my family and my now husband and hiking up the M and going,
00:05:40
Speaker
He said I was a writer. And I wrote on that, and I'm not kidding you, for like two weeks. Oh, I bet. My mind was blown. And so that was when I began the process of going, hmm, maybe I really like doing this.
00:06:00
Speaker
And I enjoyed doing it. Nobody ever told me I could do it. Nobody ever said, Lucy, you can't do this. But nobody ever said, yeah, you should do that. And my world was very closed, like in my 20s and 30s. And I was raising kids. And my life was very different. It was very religious oriented. And so when I flipped everything around and I started looking at these different things, and suddenly I'm realizing
00:06:29
Speaker
Hey, I can do this. And there were a lot of bumps. I was really green. I'm still really green at it. Honestly, when you think about that, I'm still rather new. It took me 11 years to write the memoir. So I battle in my head all the time with,
Rebranding Indie It Press
00:06:54
Speaker
Because I hear people say, I was a writer when I was seven. I started writing when I was 10. I started writing. Boy, you know that words were my favorite thing. Okay. I liked words. And obviously it was the first word that I said, according to my mother, I don't believe that's true. But I liked words. I enjoyed words. I enjoyed film. I enjoyed storytelling.
00:07:18
Speaker
poetry and all sorts of things. I enjoyed them as a consumer, as a watcher and also theater in the acting part of it. But I enjoyed reading. I read voraciously for years when I was raising my kids. But until that point, I never thought I should pick up a pen and write. And all it took was one person to say, hey, have you thought about this?
00:07:47
Speaker
Yeah. Isn't that- No, I haven't. But now I'm going to think about it every day now for the rest of my life for the last, how many years has that been? Over 15 years now. Thank you, Robert Stubblefield. Thank you, Robert. Yeah. Totally changed my life.
00:08:05
Speaker
Yeah, with writing, it's there are there are people who, yes, I wanted to write from the time I came out of the womb. And then there's other people I think I'm I fall in the same camp as you where no one told me I could do that. In fact, I had one teacher tell me you shouldn't. This is bad, which obviously set me back a bit. But it didn't occur to me to continue pursuing writing because there was just like
00:08:34
Speaker
I thought writers were people who had book deals already. I didn't see the path to becoming a writer. So it just didn't occur to me. And I think that happens to a lot of writers, even though we have, everybody has something that they want to share, but we just don't think of putting it on paper unless it's a specific, we have like a specific goal or we're viewing it through a specific lens. Yeah. And I think, um,
00:09:05
Speaker
A lot of people that started at a very young age were probably encouraged by people. I mean, let's be real. We all come from different families and different backgrounds and different levels of education and different things that are valued differently. And I think because it wasn't that it was not valued, it was just not in my families
00:09:34
Speaker
of anything and I was never, I was a really good follower. I was a really good follower and not a leader. And I didn't do, and this is really hard to say, I didn't do a lot of thinking for a while for myself. And it allowed me to do, when I began to go to school as obviously a non-tread student, and
00:10:05
Speaker
learn all these different things, even though I was a voracious reader. I never really talked to people about the books. I never even got involved like that. And I think going to school really like opened up
00:10:20
Speaker
having, getting an education and a liberal arts education and English degree that isn't going to get you anywhere, right? But it taught me so much about the world that I had lived in this glass bubble and suddenly everything really opened up to me, if that makes sense. Maybe I'm getting a little off track here on something, but it really, it began to, I began to start thinking for myself in different ways.
00:10:48
Speaker
and having some confidence in my thoughts, even though the younger generations that were just coming out of high school and into college, whip smart, would come up with all these things, especially when it came to like literature theory and things like that. And I'm like, I am never going to keep up. I'm never going to, I'm never going to get this. And yet there were so many things I learned that in my very conservative bubble, let's just call it for what it was, my conservative bubble,
00:11:18
Speaker
I didn't feel like I could look at things in a different way. And it drastically changed my life. But then also it brought on this imposter syndrome of who do you think you are? Because people have been doing this since they were seven or
Art as Personal Fulfillment
00:11:43
Speaker
10.
00:11:43
Speaker
or 15 or 16 or this guy that lived up the bit of it here, you know, he was 16 years old and he wrote this book called Aragon and suddenly gets picked up by one of the big five and it gets sold like crazy and he gets a movie made, you know, and yada, yada, yada. Right. Who am I? I am now this 50 something year old that still writes.
00:12:12
Speaker
still tries, still makes an effort and fights every day what my brain is telling me. And I'm sure he does too. And that's the beauty of imposter syndrome is I started doing some research into it because it kind of became this buzzword.
00:12:31
Speaker
Everybody's suffering with imposter syndrome, right? And it became this buzzword. It literally was a buzzword. And I was like, well, wait a minute. What all does that mean? What does this really mean? And as I started looking up, it's like actresses and actors and
00:12:46
Speaker
famous writers and musicians and people who have really attained a lot of success in whatever creative business they're in, because let's be honest, it's all a business. They've had this mounds of a success. They still struggle with imposter syndrome, and it's a real thing. Yes, absolutely.
00:13:11
Speaker
I believe in it. Yeah. It's hard not to believe in it when you experience it every day. Exactly. Exactly. And so the reason I took this very big interest in it in not only my writing, but with India Press is because so many people suffer from it. And art is really important.
00:13:40
Speaker
really, I don't even know how to express the importance of art in my life. I can't express the importance of art and the importance of education and being able to learn things because life is about learning and life is about experiencing new experiences and life is about
00:14:06
Speaker
you know, shifting it up a little and shaking it up a little bit and getting excited and, you know, realizing, oh, maybe I was wrong about that. Or, hey, you know, wow, there's real beauty in putting a string of words together. And I, so for me to like, I'm trying to figure out how to like articulate this, to get it to your listeners is that,
00:14:37
Speaker
Yes, imposter syndrome is there. But because I started digging into what it was, it opened up all these themes that made me realize, number one, I'm not alone. Number two, people can all relate to this no matter who you are, no matter what circumstances you came under or your life's trajectory or whatever. Number three, that
00:15:06
Speaker
art in and of itself can actually invoke and create change in this world. And so it wasn't until I started really diving into this, why am I feeling this way? Why am I struggling so much to write this memoir?
00:15:23
Speaker
why am I fighting everything that I began to realize, oh, there's beauty in sharing the fact that we all do this. And you're not unusual in that way. And we can support each other. And why not? Yes.
00:15:40
Speaker
We have this idea that everything we do has to be good or have value. This belief leads us to burn out. It can hold us back from creating altogether. But in my Ugly Art 101 course, I break down these restrictive beliefs and lead you through exercises that intentionally subvert perfectionism and bring playfulness back into your creative process. You can get the first day absolutely free by going to my website, scribeandsunshine.com and signing up on the homepage. Join me in my weird ugly art revolution. Back to the show.
00:16:13
Speaker
And so that is where the birth of India Press came in. I take it. Well, funny thing, no. Okay. India Press was started 10 years prior to 2021. I decided, so in my quest for knowledge, I was like, I want to build a website.
00:16:36
Speaker
literally. That's what I was. And I thought, and I want to like support indie authors and indie musicians and indie like fine artists and all that started 10 years ago. So I was still at university at the time. Well, it was longer than that ago. I was ending up university. Let's put it that way. And I had a writer friend and my son and
00:16:59
Speaker
kind of like had this idea of promoting indie artists because at the time locally here I was writing for an online easing music like pieces about musicians here in town. And we had like an open mic nights and things like that. And I was writing about things with the inside the indie music scene.
00:17:24
Speaker
And I was a little bit frustrated with the attitude of self-published authors and indie artists in general. And so I started, I built the website. I taught myself how to do it.
00:17:40
Speaker
I, um, a lot of YouTube and, you know, learning these nice little like tools we have nowadays that we didn't have 20 years prior. And I started utilizing those. And so I just started featuring, um, you know, self published authors and indie musicians and, um, what the online easing wouldn't pick up in regards to my pieces. I put on my website, um,
00:18:06
Speaker
I started writing about fine artists and mostly the ones that I knew around here because I hadn't reached out too much in the social media world.
Embracing Imperfections in Art
00:18:18
Speaker
The only thing at that point I think was Facebook maybe that I was doing. I began Twitter a little bit after that.
00:18:25
Speaker
met some artists that way as well. And I just like was really fascinated by the artist indie life. And that's kind of the start of India Press. And then what happened was, is life happened. I started working for university and I got really busy and I wanted to keep doing my writing and the website kind of fell away. And it wasn't until COVID hit that I was like,
00:18:52
Speaker
I should reboot this. I should rebrand it, reboot it, and give it some real life. And so in 2020, that's when I decided to make it more of a community for indie artists to discuss things like imposter syndrome.
00:19:13
Speaker
um, get some kind of educational knowledge, um, publish their work because it's really hard. There are a lot of gatekeepers and I want to rip down the gates. So I'm ripping down the gates with my own thing and I'm publishing people that way. And so that's kind of how the birth of what is now the iteration of India press happened because technically it was just a
00:19:39
Speaker
a platform before to just like feature them. And now I was actually publishing their pieces and putting together an anthology and helping them with education and giving a space where we could do some readings or have conversations about imposter syndrome or how to self publish and, you know, just give something, some resources and some community. And that's how this iteration of India Press happened.
00:20:09
Speaker
I love it. I love how it's evolved. That's, that's just so cool. It's interesting how, yeah, because people didn't, I mean, there for a while I was getting quite a few hits, like about year two, when I first started it, I was starting to gain some momentum, but that was when my life really began to shift quite a bit. Um, and you know, I just rolled with the shift and, um, my focus was elsewhere and that's okay.
00:20:39
Speaker
And I think sometimes when things happen or drastic things have happened, like 2020, we kind of like reevaluate what's important, what's not important, what can we let go, what do we wanna like pursue, what our real passions are. I think a lot of people have been thinking about that, but then at the same time, our brains tell us, oh, I'm not good as good as so-and-so, or I haven't been doing this for 20 years.
00:21:08
Speaker
Exactly. So yeah, let's, let's shift to that. So let like centering on imposter syndrome, how does it show up in your own life? What does it, how does it make you react? Where do you notice it the most? Okay. I notice it every day in some form or another. Um,
00:21:35
Speaker
And I don't think I'm unusual with other artists and writers. And I'm going to call myself an artist and writer, which is also new language for me. I am a writer. I am an author. I am a supporter of other artists. And I think for me every day, it's in my head talk. It's what I tell myself.
00:22:05
Speaker
It's not as much in comparison as into, and this sounds just yucky to me, but worthiness. And I think that stems from my background as a kid and what people see as being worthy of or not worthy of.
00:22:30
Speaker
Like that's even a thing. Come on. Right. Right. It's not. That's me. And that's me fighting against the old dogma or the things that were in my head and happened in my head for a lot of years. And what I've noticed has happened, and I go through these ebbs and flows, I think like everybody does.
00:22:56
Speaker
is I will have times where I'm like, go, go, go, go, go, right, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick. Right. I'm like, I am on fire. Right. And then there are times I am like, do, do, do. What do I do? I have no words. Yep. None. I, it's just not coming. And, um, I've done that with the memoir.
00:23:24
Speaker
I've done that with this historical fiction piece. I have done that with other small short pieces I've written where there are times like things will just spill out of me like
00:23:37
Speaker
Lava is just like, it's erupting and there we are. It's all over the ground and there it is. And there are times where it's like, okay, we're going to put rocks down in that shaft and we're going to make sure nothing comes up. And I think it's those times where those big boulders are sitting inside my, like,
00:23:59
Speaker
Nice little volcano. And Lisa's in there going, okay, I want to come up. I want to come up. But those rocks seem heavier and heavier and heavier. Those rocks could maybe be day job, relationships, illness, taking care of elderly parents, life stuff that gets you
00:24:26
Speaker
you know, distracted away from your art, right? And there's all of these things that press down on you. And that lava isn't free to flow, that creativity isn't free to flow. And then I don't know that I believe in like writer's block. I believe we have moments in our lives where
00:24:48
Speaker
It just flows. It just comes. You can get in that zone and it's easier. And there are times in my life, I'm not going to say everybody's life, but in my life where there are more responsibilities, there is more things going on that require my attention. And yes, as much as I like prioritize myself and all of that, there's still stuff that can weigh very heavily like those boulders inside.
00:25:16
Speaker
You know, just pushing down and you got to kind of work through that. At least I do. I got to, I got to work through that before I can get to that point again of feeling that creative flow and release in.
00:25:33
Speaker
I can't remember exactly what your question was. I got so caught in front of my analogy. I'm like, what did she ask me again? How does imposter syndrome show up in your life? I like what you're saying about feeling like it's a volcano and things are piling up.
00:25:52
Speaker
Once you have all that stuff piling up, imposter syndrome is the thing that keeps you from breaking through. Imposter syndrome says, no, see all these things? No, that's you. You don't have any right to break through this and get to the writing that you really want to do. And get to the point where you're writing again and you do it again. And it's a lie because you can. Yeah. And look at all these things that are getting in your way. If you were a real writer, these things wouldn't get in your way.
00:26:21
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. And who are you to think that it's just going to come all the time anyway? It's going to fall all the time. And I do believe that we have this kind of like, there's a cyclical part of it for me. Sometimes it falls in with the seasons, which might sound super kooky, but I know certain seasons affect me more than other seasons. I've known this for quite some time now for a lot of years before I even
00:26:51
Speaker
decided to write. And so some of my most productive, this is so strange, some of my most productive times can be in the fall, which also is some of my most hardest times are in the fall. Some of my least productive times is in the summer, which is usually pretty easy going for me.
00:27:16
Speaker
Well, that's the time you want to be outside. You want to be relaxing, you know. Yeah. Get me to the lake or to the river or to the mountains or to the beach or wherever, right? I don't know. I don't know. But I
Art and Lifelong Learning
00:27:30
Speaker
just I don't know if I'll be battling imposter syndrome forever. I don't know that when I published this epic and it's epic historical fiction piece and I believe it's epic.
00:27:46
Speaker
which is even better because I don't believe my memoir is epic. I don't even think my memoir is that great. But this, I really feel like I really have something here. And so I believe it will be published. And when it's published and everybody knows me and I have all that, will I be the one saying, yeah, I still struggle with imposter syndrome? Yup. I would be that person.
00:28:09
Speaker
If I never got published in a large manner and I self-published, would I still feel like that imposter? Yes, I think I would. And I think that those mindsets that we change take some serious cracking through all of that to get to the why. Why do we feel like this way? Why do we feel like maybe people would call it a crutch?
00:28:39
Speaker
something we hang on to maybe as artists. I don't know. Do I want that crutch? No. I don't think any of us do. But I think there's some kind of solidarity in knowing that I'm not the only one that feels this way. And there are people in their 50s and 60s and even, yes, 70 that were first time debut authors. And it happens.
00:29:09
Speaker
and it can happen and I got to stop telling myself I'm too old. Um, I, you know, I have way too many other responsibilities. I like, you know, I'm taking care of held daily parents on both sides of my husband's side and my side, you know, things like that. All of these things that can keep you from doing what you love and
00:29:39
Speaker
What I figured out more than anything is that art in my life is what I love. I love consuming it as much as I love doing it. And if I'm doing that to some degree every day, no matter what that might look like, even if it's a little bit or if it's a lot, then I'm winning because it's
00:30:10
Speaker
Art and education have enriched my life like nothing ever has. And that's even, ooh, my poor family. That would be even over relationships to some degree. Am I not saying my kids? I'm like, okay, kids will listen to this. My kids will listen to this. I don't mean that, but I mean, this is for me. This is for me. And why would I let imposter syndrome
00:30:40
Speaker
or the fear of, or whatever, stop me from doing this because it's a pure joy that comes from me. And when I consume art, I see it the way Lisa sees it. Do you know what I mean? It's like, I see it differently from the way Laura sees it, Lauren sees it, or my son sees it.
00:31:09
Speaker
or my husband and I can have a conversation about it. And we can have like those fun little arguments or we can get super excited and find those same threads that is humanity. And I think those threads over the last few years have gotten broken in our society. And I really, for me, art is giving in life. And so to let something like,
00:31:39
Speaker
imposter syndrome stop me from doing what really brings me joy is something I can't do. I can't let it happen. So I fight it. I try to defeat it. That feeling you describe of how art
00:31:59
Speaker
empowers you so and just brings you to life. That is exactly what I have experienced in these past two years of doing this, of getting back in touch with my creativity. It feels like an opening of myself and like getting back in touch with my childhood self, my teenage self,
00:32:21
Speaker
All of me just seems so much more open up and excited and curious about life. And that is because of art and following my creative spirit and actually letting myself explore what there is. And there's so much power there in our creativity. And so thank you so much for touching on that. Tons of power and creativity. It also is like, I don't know. There are times when I write something, I don't know if you're the same more.
00:32:51
Speaker
when I write something and I'll be like, dang, I really wrote that. And then if I read it out loud to my family and okay, they gotta say it's good, you know. That's the rule. I will read it to my husband and there was something I wrote in my work in progress in my historical fiction piece.
Overcoming Creative Blocks
00:33:13
Speaker
And he said, I got done writing it and I was just like, in this moment of, wow,
00:33:21
Speaker
So I said, can I read this to you? I want to read this to you because, well, just let me read it to you. And so I read it to him and he said, did you just write that? I said, I did. He said, Lisa, that is really good. And I'm like, I know, right? Yeah. Mind you, that doesn't happen all the time, but every once in a while you get that beautiful moment where you're like,
00:33:51
Speaker
Okay, that was brilliant. And even if, you know, beta readers read it and a handful of people buy the book and those other, like half of that handful actually reads the book and is not just sitting in their bookshelf. They are going to read that. And they might go, wow, I really resonate with that. Or wow, that like, what a beautiful whatever, or wow, that really changes my, changes my perception on
00:34:19
Speaker
whatever this is. I don't know. And then there's moments where it's like, yeah, so that like dialogue that I just wrote really sounds jilted. Right. And you have to be willing to walk through those yucky parts in order to get to those juicy like yes moments.
00:34:47
Speaker
Juicy yes moments. And boy, do they come. And when they come, it's like, I don't know, a whole choir singing or something. I'm like, oh, here I am. And then suddenly you go on to the next thing and you're like, whoa, wait, okay. It can all be fixed, right? I think the other thing, going back to like kind of what I struggle with, like how I see it show up in my daily life. Disimpostor syndrome, jerk.
00:35:18
Speaker
is that I don't know. I feel like when I don't have those really beautiful like, oh, I wrote this or I did these moments and I have longer stretches of that. I think that's when I tell myself I'm not really a writer. When I find that break between those really beautiful
00:35:46
Speaker
Oh, this is really gorgeous too. Wow, I'm really struggling to even to pull two or three sentences together or write a scene of dialogue. And I think those longer stretches I have between those moments make it a little harder. But the reality is, is every time I sit down to write or I continue to do so, meaning regularly, then you get those moments again.
00:36:14
Speaker
And it's just that nice little sweet spot. And it's like, yeah, that's why I do this. I love feeling that little sweet spot and go, wow, that came from me. I created that. No AI created that. No bot. No, like, you know, anybody, not my children that I birthed, but I actually created this myself. And you get those moments again. And I think we forget that
00:36:47
Speaker
It's not like going to be that singing beautiful moment every time. I don't think with anybody. And so I try to remember that this is just part of the process. And it's hard to remember it's just part of the process. And also I don't know about you, but I spend a lot of time
00:37:12
Speaker
thinking about things before I actually write them down. I'll think about characters and I'll think about circumstances and I'll build thoughts inside my head before I ever like take pen to paper. And I will usually like hand write
00:37:32
Speaker
Like I'll do a general outline of maybe one to 10 chapters or something, just general. And I'm not really plotting the whole thing. But once I get it down and start building that on paper, then it kind of builds on top of itself. And then I can like, that's when I can sit down and really produce.
00:37:55
Speaker
stuff. And I'm not the person who writes every single day steadily. I get up at not a 5am person. I don't do it at 8am. I don't do it every day after work at 6pm. I'm not like that. What I notice with me, and I know people are all different, but in my case, I'm like,
00:38:19
Speaker
doing a lot of thinking, thinking, thinking. It germinates. It germinates while I'm in the shower. It germinates while I'm at my day job. It germinates while and I'll put things on my phone or I'll put something in my notebook or I'll do, you know, whatever I need to do to go, oh yeah, this is a thought. And then if I stop thinking about it, that's when I know I have to do something drastic. Because if I stop thinking about the characters, if they stop talking to me, if I can't,
00:38:49
Speaker
visualize the scenes or the scenarios or whatever, then I'm like, okay, I gotta do something a little differently. And that recently happened to me and I was like, okay, I gotta shake it up. So I shook it up. How did you shake it up? I'm not a poet at all. Um, I love poetry, but I, I've never written poetry.
00:39:16
Speaker
And I've been thinking for two, think, okay, Lauren, I've been thinking for two months about doing something creative, right? Two months. Blackout poetry is in my head. Two freaking months. I'm obsessing about blackout poetry and like, well, Lisa, you should do that. You should really, maybe that would help. Lisa, do that. Lisa, do that. I didn't do it. I didn't do it. I didn't do it. Put it off. Another month. Goodbye. I didn't do it.
00:39:44
Speaker
One day I woke up and I was like, oh man, okay, today's the day. I got out the glue sticks. I got out the different kinds of words. I got out the cards. I started gluing and slapping it on there and like crossing out what didn't resonate with me and circling those that did. And I found it suddenly got me in a place of creative thought.
00:40:14
Speaker
relaxation, a gentleness in regards to it's okay to get messy. And this isn't something like I'm going to like publish, except maybe on Instagram, which I did do three of them. But yeah, I saw a couple of those. But you know what I mean? It's like, yeah, you just do it for you, right? And it felt so good just to do it. Yeah.
00:40:42
Speaker
Brilliant. And so I shook it up and now I've got, I'm thinking things again. I'm getting to that point again where I'm like, okay, I believe I can write the Hollywood part section of this epic novel. There's only one more other thing I need to do that I think I need to do, which I think is holding me back a little bit is because I'm writing about a place that
00:41:07
Speaker
is very well written about and seen in movies. And so I want to get it right. And that stops me sometimes.
00:41:18
Speaker
from doing the work because I'm like, oh, what if I get it wrong? And then someone like Lauren says, just get messy. Just get messy. It's okay. Perfectionism and imposter syndrome are very best of friends and they will work. They are in love.
Community and Support for Creatives
00:41:41
Speaker
They are in a long-term committed relationship and they live in all of our heads rent free.
00:41:48
Speaker
Yep. Yep. I know it well. Exactly. And I gotta let, I have to let those like that perfectionism part of me go.
00:42:01
Speaker
Do you? Yeah, mine stems from my ex church days and that you can't be perfect type of situation, which is like, so that's old yak, old Lisa, young Lisa yak that I'm still like, have brought into this like creative life with me. And it's like, it can't be perfect. And it's okay, because there's people out there can help me.
00:42:24
Speaker
There are editors, there are researchers. I could go do some research. I could go just take a look at it and see what I think. But I got to get it down, right? Yeah. Knowing that you don't have to go it alone is so impactful in knowing that you are not, in fact, an imposter because you have this team of people around you. Yeah, definitely.
00:42:55
Speaker
Hey writer, are you feeling adrift in your writing practice? Like the word swept you out to see, but you have no idea where you're going? Climb aboard the writer's helm. I'm Lauren. And I'm Gabby. And we're both writers and professional editors who are here to support you on your writing voyage. With the writer's helm, you get access to group co-writing sessions, Q&A sessions, our private community chat room, and group coaching calls to help you along no matter what stage of the writing process you're in.
00:43:21
Speaker
Members of our crew have said that they've reconnected with their excitement for writing and feel energized from the support they've received from us and each other. You can sign up for the writer's home at any time, which comes with a one week free trial to make sure that we're the right crew for you. You don't need to navigate these stormy seas alone. Let the writer's home take you to New Shores. I would love to know how have you grown in the past couple of years since reinvigorating India at press?
00:43:51
Speaker
I've grown through watching other people. There are a number of people that are part of India president community where they had never submitted to anything before. And specifically in like the indie publishing community because they don't feel like they actually fit in the mold of, because they're not traditionally published that they want to have this opportunity to be, you know,
00:44:19
Speaker
have their work out there in other ways too, not meaning that they can't do it through lip magazines. Of course they could. But I've seen a lot of people who have never been published before get published and see their excitement to be published on India Press. I've seen people really grow exponentially in their art. They just started out with us.
00:44:43
Speaker
And now two years later, I mean, they've published a book. They're going to be publishing another one. They've gone to DC to do like this big conference of reading. I mean, there's just, there's been so many things. So for me, it's helped me to grow in my art to watch and other people succeed and find the confidence that even maybe I lack still. So I think that's, um,
00:45:12
Speaker
where I've grown the most with India Press is watching other people. And, you know, we wish we could, like, in the contest award everybody, we can't. We wish, you know, we could publish them when we can. And, you know, there's not many of us and we all are working other jobs and doing other things and doing other creative endeavors. And so it's, you know, it takes time to do things I'm doing.
00:45:38
Speaker
You know, we try to do what we can, and I think it's great to watch people really succeed. And not only succeed, but just feel that confidence and get that boost because I don't think it's so readily available for people. And so that's been a really great part of India Press.
00:46:00
Speaker
Tell me about your year of creativity goals, all of the membership programs and the courses through India Press, the next volume of the Courageous Creative. What do you have going on this year? Yeah, so we'll be putting, I work with this gal. She is a self-published author. Her name is Kami, Walt Disney Polly.
00:46:26
Speaker
super talented individual. And she's been with us basically since the beginning helping indie authors or authors that want to self-publish, self-publish, or give them the information based on traditional, hybrid, indie. And so we wanted to roll into something because we were charging like 47 per class. And with the country the way it is,
00:46:55
Speaker
And with cost of living and people really are, let's just be honest, the majority of the people are struggling versus those who are actually making it. And so we decided to switch to this membership model, meaning that if you wanted to take this class, this whole like series, you could take it. And the membership not only allows you to take the classes, but it allows you to
00:47:25
Speaker
like submit pieces and to get feedback and to like get your first chapter analyzed and sent back to you. So there's other options than anything extra we do, your people are welcome to come. But she put together this really great series and it's called putting this story together. And she basically takes you from anybody who might be doing a fiction piece or wants to do a nonfiction work
00:47:55
Speaker
She just starts you out with the elements of literature and the importance of literature, and then each month she'll take you through a thing like deep dive into your character. She has two parts, one and two, finding your why of your characters and finding your boys. Then another lesson, one of the months is using the themes of geography to create your entire world.
00:48:20
Speaker
She then will take you to this point of why did you make the choices you made for your story, what you're writing, and then talking about conflicts and how to raise the stakes in your story itself or whatever you're putting together. And then she's going to teach a section on narrative structure, long form and short form. So for those people who write like essays or are in the freelance world and want to, you know, maybe
00:48:46
Speaker
you know, up their game in regards to writing the short form of things. She's going to do both of those. And then she's going to do the ending of wrapping it up is putting the whole story together. So drafting and revising and everything. And then she will work one on one with people. She's a fantastic, you know, person to do this with and to work with. And I think she's published like, oh, Kami, I'm sorry if I get it wrong. I think it's something like nine or 13 books on her. Wow.
00:49:16
Speaker
Um, she's just highly prolific, really amazing. And she knows what she's doing is she's also a ghostwriter. Um, so just a fantastic offering by her. And then it allows us to give some real value to, you know, more value to what we're offering, um, each month with India
Commitment to Creative Practices
00:49:36
Speaker
press. Um, I do, which this is free. I do a newsletter. I started, um,
00:49:45
Speaker
24 weeks ago, I made a commitment that I was gonna do a weekly newsletter and it didn't matter. It didn't have to be perfect, Lauren. And it's like, if there is a typo or if something is wrong, I'm still gonna put out what's going on with me for the week and how I feel about things or something that's really like, prominent in my creative light or something that affected me. So I just made this commitment to write a newsletter once a week, no matter what. I'm calling it the indie beat.
00:50:13
Speaker
And I just write this newsletter based on maybe some really great, like a music I experienced, or where I'm getting stuck, or I was trying to think what I wrote on for Monday, and it really resonated with people. And what's interesting is I'm getting people actually replying to my newsletters now and saying, hey, thanks for writing that, because it was about,
00:50:40
Speaker
might not really enjoying like New Year's resolutions and words of the year. And I really fight against that. However, I really feel like I need to have a rebirth this year. And so it's, I suppose that word is rebirth. However, I mean, I wanting to, to pursue, to like, I really feel like a lot of us are rebuilding each other after the past few years and
00:51:07
Speaker
I believe I've done that nearly every seven years anyway of my life, but so it was my word and it was about how, you know, people, one of the writers that he's written a ton. He has published traditionally in the nonfiction realm and he emailed me and he's like, this is the first time in years that I don't have a project on the background. I don't know what I'm about. I don't know what I'm doing.
00:51:37
Speaker
but I read your newsletter every week and it makes me think of things and what you're offering is great. And you know, that's something and I know it's making a difference. And so I've just committed myself. Like if I don't do anything, I'm going to do my blackout poetry and I'm going to write my newsletter. That's it. I love it. Everything else is bonus. Oh, and I am registered as a member and I will be taking Cammie's class by the way.
00:52:06
Speaker
Nice. Very good. I love it. At the end of every episode of The Ugly Podcast, I like to ask if there was anything ugly that you've made recently. So is there anything ugly you've made recently? Yes. Okay. So Blackout Poetry, I was talking about those. So I haven't shared some of them obviously on
00:52:30
Speaker
on Instagram or whatever, because I don't want to. And it's OK. So but I'm going to share this with you. And I started doing this Black Opera Party, which I just I've taken like short stories and works that really resonate with me, some that my work, my historical fiction piece has a lot to do with music and film. And it's it's still kind of memoir-esque because it's based on my grandfather.
00:52:59
Speaker
But so I've taken these pieces that really resonate with me or have, you know, since when I went to the university or, you know, that I read somewhere and I put them on these cards and one that I haven't shared with people and it's, it's called fungus. Oh, I love it already. I called the piece fungus and it's a piece of blackout poetry and
00:53:27
Speaker
I don't know that it's considered ugly, but it's like, who wants to share about fungus? I don't know. Maybe that's ugly, maybe so. Maybe it's very beautiful to people. But it's just interesting what came up because I thought, okay, it seems kind of dark. It seems dark to me. And so I was like, okay, what kind of mood was I in when I did this? So it's rather uglies, but I'm going to read it to you. Oh, I love it.
00:53:56
Speaker
This piece came from the yellow wallpaper, possibly. I don't think it was jazz. Toni Morrison's
Connecting with Indie It Press
00:54:05
Speaker
jazz. I can't even remember now where these pieces all came from because it doesn't matter because it's not what it's about. So for those who don't know about blackout poetry is you just take these like pieces, these sections of writing and you pick out the words that really resonate with you and you block everything else out to kind of make a poem.
00:54:24
Speaker
And so I, these are the words that I picked out. Sleep for it is so, watch development, tiresome, perplexing, new fungus, new shades all over, cannot count, I have tried. The end.
00:54:47
Speaker
I love it. I don't know how ugly that is, but... I mean, ugly is a state of mind. I don't know if I'll share this letter or not. Yeah, right? Exactly. Apparently it was a state of mind that day, wasn't it? Yeah. I know.
00:55:07
Speaker
Thank you so much for having me. Yeah. Thank you so much for coming. Um, can you please just share really quick where people can find you and how they can support you and get involved with, um, India press. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks for asking. So, um, I'm pretty active on Instagram. So you could find me at
00:55:26
Speaker
Indie Itch Press, and I know that seems like a lot, but I'm going to spell it for you. It's indie, I-N-D-I-E, I-T, and then press, P-R-E-S-S. It's at India Press or indiatpress.com. If you're curious about my, my
00:55:48
Speaker
creative brain in my author life and my cat Ziggy Stardust. And my son's Frenchies, you can follow my author page, it's at Lisa, L-E-I-S-A underscore green, green with an E on the end. That's where you can find me. So good. Thank you so much, Lisa. Thank you everybody for listening. Thank you.
00:56:18
Speaker
Keep it ugly, everybody. Keep it ugly. Because that's what we do. That's what we do. That's what we do.
00:56:25
Speaker
The Ugly podcast is created by me, Lauren Alexander of Scribe and Sunshine. It is produced and sort of edited, also by me, and written and directed by absolutely nobody. If you like the podcast, be sure to write and leave a review on your preferred platform and share with the creative people in your life. If you're interested in learning more about what I do, head to scribeandsunshine.com to learn more about my Ugly Art 101 course, my perfectionism workshop, my editing services, and the Writer's Helm, which is an online community for writers, co-captain by myself and Gabby Goodlow. As always, keep it ugly.